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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: T0mb3ry on Tue, 13 June 2017, 17:54:45

Title: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: T0mb3ry on Tue, 13 June 2017, 17:54:45
Hey everybody,

i understand pretty well Geekhack is keyboard enthusiasts forum but i'd like to seek for opinions about other input devices. Thus i am starting this IC for Carbon themed mouse and mouse pad.
Nothing is set in stone right now and we are checking the possibilities and this might get real depending on MOQ.

So let me share some thoughts.

Currently i am thinking about a mouse with a shape of Roccat Kova but with Pixart PMW-3310 sensor. It should have similar implementation like it is done in Zowie mice. Say no acceleration, correction and etc. Just raw hand movement input. The Kova shape/shell could be also used by left handed people. Sure the colors should be of Carbon.
For the mouse pad i am thinking about Artisan Hayate in Carbon gray color with small orange Carbon logo in the top left corner. Dont know if many of you know Artisan mouse pads but they are regarded to be the best you can get.
There is also a great chance for a deskmat.

Well if this will become real someday, you may expect the same also for other popular keysets ;)

I will update first page as soon as i get more info.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: scwoopz on Tue, 13 June 2017, 18:19:40
This is an interesting idea! I'm sure you'll get a lot of support from mouse users. I have some suggestion and question, though.

1. Maybe have a less aggressive design. The kova is pretty moderator and sharp, and I know many people love the Mionix Castor, and even more people love the Steelseries Sensei/Rival.

2. How would this be produced? Through Roccat? Maybe you could team up with Steelseries (that's a long shot).

3. Trackball? I'd kill for a custom colored trackball. Seriously. I'd pay a ton of money.

Best of luck! I'll keep my eye on this thread.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: T0mb3ry on Tue, 13 June 2017, 18:28:50
Quote from: scwoopz on Tue, 13 June 2017, 18:19:40
This is an interesting idea! I'm sure you'll get a lot of support from mouse users. I have some suggestion and question, though.

1. Maybe have a less aggressive design. The kova is pretty moderator and sharp, and I know many people love the Mionix Castor, and even more people love the Steelseries Sensei/Rival.

2. How would this be produced? Through Roccat? Maybe you could team up with Steelseries (that's a long shot).

3. Trackball? I'd kill for a custom colored trackball. Seriously. I'd pay a ton of money.

Best of luck! I'll keep my eye on this thread.

1. As i said nothing is set in stone. I was looking at Kova first because Carbon is aggresive. Depending on who is willing to make a custom mouse for us i can also imagine making a more traditional shell design. One of the Zowie/Benq mice for example would be nice.

2. Depends. If some of the companies would like to team up. But keep in mind they do manufacture at same factories we do have access too. Thus the big companies are not really manufacturers. But you know its standard nowadays.

3. Trackball is an option too. Everything depends on MOQ. Anything is possible as long people are willing to pay for it (just saying truth nothing more).
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: Auk on Tue, 13 June 2017, 18:29:49

Really nice idea if you can make it happen  :thumb:

To be clear: are you talking about designing a new mouse from scratch? or partnering with Roccat or Zowie and using their parts bin to theme one of their mice as Carbon?

Are you going to do one mouse in one size for this? If so, and you really want to do ambidextrous I would strongly consider a smaller size. If you really want the large, palm grip only style, then it would probably be better to consider a more ergonomic style.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: T0mb3ry on Tue, 13 June 2017, 18:36:17
Quote from: Auk on Tue, 13 June 2017, 18:29:49

Really nice idea if you can make it happen  :thumb:

To be clear: are you talking about designing a new mouse from scratch? or partnering with Roccat or Zowie and using their parts bin to theme one of their mice as Carbon?

Are you going to do one mouse in one size for this? If so, and you really want to do ambidextrous I would strongly consider a smaller size. If you really want the large, palm grip only style, then it would probably be better to consider a more ergonomic style.

I wish we could team up with one of the companies, since they got already great products. This would make things easier. Say in that case we are speaking here about special edition mouse.

In case we dont find a company, then we will try to make it on our own.

Regarding the size, i think it should be done in one size first which suits most people. Depending on success we may consider other sizes. But i am looking first for the interest since this kind of new thing offering custom mice  :))
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: Auk on Tue, 13 June 2017, 18:43:23
Quote from: T0mb3ry on Tue, 13 June 2017, 18:36:17
...one size first which suits most people...

That will obviously split the interest a lot more than keyset buyers, but a nice mouse is a much more accessible product from the value/price justification perspective, and I think you could end up with many more potential buyers from outside the MK enthusiast crowd.

I guess you need to reach out to some brands and stores to find out which are their most popular sizes. You could try asking a store/distributor like Caseking (HQ is in Germany) as well as the brands you've mentioned.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: a_ak57 on Tue, 13 June 2017, 19:08:56
The PMW-3360 is currently the best sensor around, so I'd say you should definitely use that over the 3310.  As far as shape goes, hard to say what you should do there.  The safest shapes would be either an ambidextrous shape like the SS Sensei, or an ergo shape like the IE3.0 or Deathadder.  On a personal level, if you could convince Zowie to actually adopt the 3360 then I'd be in for one (fine with EC, ZA or FK series).
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: Auk on Tue, 13 June 2017, 19:30:59
Quote from: a_ak57 on Tue, 13 June 2017, 19:08:56
The PMW-3360...

IIRC: on OCN's mice forum they were talking about exclusivity deals for these sensors. Logitech were first, then others? anyway, not every sensor will always be available. It may also happen that new gen sensors will be made available during the design phase, so maybe there could be something even better than a PixArt 3360/3361/3366 on the market, at which point the 'old' sensor would be more widely available. We won't know what's possible until this project progresses a lot further.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: a_ak57 on Tue, 13 June 2017, 19:35:38
The 3360 is publicly available, there are actually a ton of mice using it.  The 3366 is the Logitech-exclusive one that came first.  And regarding better sensors coming out in the future, you go with what's the best now.  There's no actual advantage to using the 3310 so you might as well use the sensor that's better.  If some PMW-4000 comes out next year that is even better, great, but that doesn't change that the 3360 is the best right now and there is nothing difficult about using it.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: Auk on Tue, 13 June 2017, 19:49:20
It doesn't really matter, but do you know if the 3360 is on par with the 3366?
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 13 June 2017, 19:52:52
I could be down with a Carbon mouse. It would depend on the final design, of course, but the idea is a good one!
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: xantiema on Tue, 13 June 2017, 19:59:14
Having the sensor and calibrating it is two very different steps. There are mice with the same sensor, but different issues (zowie, razer, steelseries etc.)
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: richard912 on Tue, 13 June 2017, 20:05:51
Interesting IC this. I'd be game to join in for the mousepad as long as it is "huge" (at least 900 x 400 x 4 mm) with anti-fraying stitched sides. Looking forward to seeing some renders on this. The mouse on the other hand, may be a tall order. Personally, I am using a Roccat Tyon because of its highly customizable buttons. Don't think I'd ever go back down to more "basic" mice.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: ..//dexx on Tue, 13 June 2017, 20:14:51
Quote from: richard912 on Tue, 13 June 2017, 20:05:51
Interesting IC this. I'd be game to join in for the mousepad as long as it is "huge" (at least 900 x 400 x 4 mm) with anti-fraying stitched sides. Looking forward to seeing some renders on this. The mouse on the other hand, may be a tall order. Personally, I am using a Roccat Tyon because of its highly customizable buttons. Don't think I'd ever go back down to more "basic" mice.

Same, huge with anti-fraying stitched sides. I'm also not entirely convinced with the basic mice idea.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: a_ak57 on Tue, 13 June 2017, 21:00:12
Quote from: Auk on Tue, 13 June 2017, 19:49:20
It doesn't really matter, but do you know if the 3360 is on par with the 3366?

The 3366 is very slightly better, but not to any degree that it really matters honestly (and not at all if you have your DPI under 2000).
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: lanyusea on Wed, 14 June 2017, 00:13:03
(https://i.redditmedia.com/ZRenpGft8kYC6dE5eSRbdGyhntuEodcadh8GZwfjJS8.jpg?w=1024&s=6adcc14a9f7c8891dc3575b3f26a20c6)

you mean this?
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 14 June 2017, 04:20:21
Quote from: lanyusea on Wed, 14 June 2017, 00:13:03
Show Image
(https://i.redditmedia.com/ZRenpGft8kYC6dE5eSRbdGyhntuEodcadh8GZwfjJS8.jpg?w=1024&s=6adcc14a9f7c8891dc3575b3f26a20c6)


you mean this?

No, clearly not. Artisan doesn't produce mats of that size, to my knowledge.

@Tombery: I would be down for a pad, but not a mouse, as I am happy with my G502 and the only mouse I'd consider upgrading to is the G900. I am not a big fan of the shape of the Rokkat or Zowie shape, preferring a more sculpted thumb well.

As for the mousepad, any chance of making it from the Shiden Kai series of pads with the glass coating? They are extremely smooth and have excellent glide  ;D
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: pon10 on Wed, 14 June 2017, 08:24:16
A small scale idea, would be to do a new cover for the sensei with carbon logo :) Colors wise and design is this one of the minimalist mouses out i have seen. 
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: Endeavour1934 on Wed, 14 June 2017, 08:55:16
I really just have one thing to say: Intellimouse/Deathadder/EC1 shape or GTFO ;D
G403 shape is also acceptable.

(http://my-live-03.slatic.net/p/2/razer-deathadder-chroma-gaming-mouse-overwatch-edition-7202-66972611-0cb00bbddd3f1b8d828933c7733a40b5.jpg)(https://img.pccomponentes.com/articles/10/100356/gigabyte-xm300-negro-6400dpi-4.jpg)
but less ugly.

BTW, have you considered designing a carbon wristrest?
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: Auk on Wed, 14 June 2017, 09:12:18
Quote from: richard912 on Tue, 13 June 2017, 20:05:51
with anti-fraying stitched side
Quote from: ..//dexx on Tue, 13 June 2017, 20:14:51
with anti-fraying stitched sides

I'm going to disagree with this 100%

*heat/laser cut edges can be scratchy and unpleasant
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: Auk on Wed, 14 June 2017, 09:19:45
Quote from: a_ak57 on Tue, 13 June 2017, 21:00:12
The 3366 is very slightly better, but not to any degree that it really matters...

That's what I wasn't sure about. I haven't been paying too much close attention to mice in the last year.

I will disagree in part with the earlier comment about just using what is available now. The price point will be very significant, but there is an increased risk in designing something that will ultimately cost $100+ when it drops unless it is near the top of the tree for latest and greatest tech. This needs to be known and planned for ahead of time.  For something $40-$60 you can make more compromises on the specs.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: ..//dexx on Wed, 14 June 2017, 09:30:30
Quote from: Auk on Wed, 14 June 2017, 09:12:18
Quote from: richard912 on Tue, 13 June 2017, 20:05:51
with anti-fraying stitched side
Quote from: ..//dexx on Tue, 13 June 2017, 20:14:51
with anti-fraying stitched sides

I'm going to disagree with this 100%
  • mats with stitched edges are frequently unable to ever lay completely flat
  • stitched edges can be very uncomfortable on the wrists or forearms
  • quality pads with mechanically* trimmed edges don't fray

*heat/laser cut edges can be scratchy and unpleasant

What stitched mouse pads have you been using? Maybe it's the size then. I've been using Razer (sue me) Goliathus Large and Extended and have no issues with it laying flat after a few days of use. Granted, the 2nd point could be true - but I don't put my wrist down on the mat for hours end when using the keyboard. That's just bad posture.

Right now I'm using Steelseries QCK+ and I have to say I miss my Goliathus.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: Auk on Wed, 14 June 2017, 09:47:45
I won't be knocking you for using Razer, some of the hate is very overblown. That said I choose not to use their current range of peripherals because of the requirement to have the software installed (no memory on the devices.) I've had as many mouse fails with other brands inc. Logitech, and some Razer mousepads are excellent. I haven't had the pleasure of Artisan's mousepads, but I've tried numerous others and first generation (which hasn't frayed) Goliathus Control is my all time favorite pad.

I've got a couple of Gamdias mats that are supposed to be copies of the Control, but neither of those lay flat, I mean to try trimming the edges myself at some point. I've had others pass through my possession, a Corepad for sure. I can't remember all of them, but it also seems to be a never ending source of complaint on the forums like OCN and ESR.

Although there are other issues with different pads, various non-stitched Razer, Roccat, Puretrak, Mionix, Steelseries etc have all layed flat just fine when I've had them.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: SoReckless on Sat, 17 June 2017, 04:53:50
I think something like the TTesports Ventus is already quite fitting for carbon!
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sat, 17 June 2017, 05:12:49
I think people are even more picky when it comes to their mouse than their keyset... I personally am not in the market for a new mouse right now, but if I was I'd only look for stuff in the Steelseries Sensei shape (like the Nixeus Revel I use right now).
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: richard912 on Sat, 17 June 2017, 23:55:32
Carbon themed wrist rest perhaps?
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: 19820815 on Sun, 18 June 2017, 20:39:59
Quote from: lanyusea on Wed, 14 June 2017, 00:13:03
Show Image
(https://i.redditmedia.com/ZRenpGft8kYC6dE5eSRbdGyhntuEodcadh8GZwfjJS8.jpg?w=1024&s=6adcc14a9f7c8891dc3575b3f26a20c6)


you mean this?

lol....
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Mon, 19 June 2017, 13:55:54
I'm very interested to see where this goes
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: zeshon on Mon, 19 June 2017, 19:01:39
Very interested in a mouse pad, but I'm happy with my G900 already.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: simimm on Wed, 29 November 2017, 05:44:55
(https://wx1.sinaimg.cn/mw690/6cad70e1ly1flz6v5y2mzj21kw16otkp.jpg)

I don't know if I can inspire you
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: T0mb3ry on Wed, 29 November 2017, 10:45:19
Quote from: simimm on Wed, 29 November 2017, 05:44:55
Show Image
(https://wx1.sinaimg.cn/mw690/6cad70e1ly1flz6v5y2mzj21kw16otkp.jpg)


I don't know if I can inspire you

I hope with next possible GMK Carbon drop there will be something available in this regard ;)
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: alisonica on Thu, 30 November 2017, 21:18:41
Carbon Slim Blade would look nice with a custom Resin trackball with Hammer Carbon 3d logo inside.
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: kingnestea on Thu, 30 November 2017, 23:04:17
shut up and take my money
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: energyd on Fri, 01 December 2017, 14:03:26
Could you make versions of different sizes?
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: elfick on Wed, 06 December 2017, 17:12:03
Quote from: T0mb3ry on Wed, 29 November 2017, 10:45:19
Quote from: simimm on Wed, 29 November 2017, 05:44:55
Show Image
(https://wx1.sinaimg.cn/mw690/6cad70e1ly1flz6v5y2mzj21kw16otkp.jpg)


I don't know if I can inspire you

I hope with next possible GMK Carbon drop there will be something available in this regard ;)
Any idea on a date for the next GMK Carbon drop?
Title: Re: [IC] Carbon mouse and mouse pad.
Post by: T0mb3ry on Wed, 06 December 2017, 17:16:53
Quote from: elfick on Wed, 06 December 2017, 17:12:03
Any idea on a date for the next GMK Carbon drop?

Probably late 2018. Thats my assumption and not a fact ;)