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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: _haru on Mon, 24 July 2017, 08:21:49

Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Mon, 24 July 2017, 08:21:49
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Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: merlin64 on Mon, 24 July 2017, 08:56:39
That's like $120 USD for US folk.

If the target is kids, you may want to consider lowering the price even more. At least when I was a kid, $120 was an amazing amount of money to get. Also, as it stands now, you can purchase

Sentraq PCB: $42 (Sentraq)
Plastic Case: $18 (Sentraq)
Authentic Cherry PCB Stabs: 9.50 (Switchtop)
Gateron Switches: $18 (Switchtop)
Tai-Hao Carbon Keycaps: 39 (Mechanicalkeyboards.com)

That puts us at $126.5 with a proven PCB, and a decent entry level keycap set. It may not look too appealing for US buyers at this rate.
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Mon, 24 July 2017, 09:02:37
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Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: _haru on Mon, 24 July 2017, 09:03:37
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Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: merlin64 on Mon, 24 July 2017, 09:17:43
Ok with an entry level soldering iron, flux, and solder I guess that's a good deal. Just don't go tooooo entry level, I've destroyed boards because of entry level irons not heating up consistently.

You may want to reach out to Don at The Board Podcast, or TaeKeyboards. They're in Australia and will have a better understanding of what keyboard might suit the Australian market.
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Mon, 24 July 2017, 09:38:01
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Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: merlin64 on Mon, 24 July 2017, 09:48:36
That's true, but is the hope to get them interested enough to become an enthusiast?
Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: _haru on Mon, 24 July 2017, 09:51:14
Quote from: merlin64 on Mon, 24 July 2017, 09:48:36
That's true, but is the hope to get them interested enough to become an enthusiast?

Not particularly, the main problem we're trying to solve is the lack of electronics kits that actually teach important skills (in this case, soldering) and provide a useful end result (the keyboard).

If they do end up becoming enthusiasts though, that's all the better for us ;)
Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: davkol on Mon, 24 July 2017, 09:56:53
Wouldn't it be more suitable to make a keypad instead of a compact keyboard? Something like GH36. Why?
Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: merlin64 on Mon, 24 July 2017, 10:03:18
I like davkol's thinking.
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Mon, 24 July 2017, 10:03:54
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Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: davkol on Mon, 24 July 2017, 10:05:37
Beware of stuff like feature bloat.
Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: _haru on Mon, 24 July 2017, 10:08:21
Quote from: davkol on Mon, 24 July 2017, 10:05:37
Beware of stuff like feature bloat.

Yup, the plan is to keep it as simple as possible, while supporting the most common layouts and other nifty stuff :D
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Wed, 26 July 2017, 00:47:12
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Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: killyou on Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:17:51
Quote from: linuxfanatic on Wed, 26 July 2017, 00:47:12
Okay, some changes:

-New layout:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/5Fnv6dB.png)

Yes, I know it's a waste of space, and there's no right shift, but the reason it exists is to have dedicates arrow keys while only using the keycaps that are included with a standard TKL keycap set.

-The keyboard will be plate mounted, and only support Plate mount Cherry stabs. This is to make it easier to fix them.

Thoughts and feedback please.
What about these:

(http://i.imgur.com/KGQ2my1.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/lAPOIJT.png)


Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:21:34
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Title: Re: Simple 60% keyboard for beginners
Post by: killyou on Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:34:00
Quote from: linuxfanatic on Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:21:34
Quote from: killyou on Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:17:51
Quote from: linuxfanatic on Wed, 26 July 2017, 00:47:12
Okay, some changes:

-New layout:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/5Fnv6dB.png)

Yes, I know it's a waste of space, and there's no right shift, but the reason it exists is to have dedicates arrow keys while only using the keycaps that are included with a standard TKL keycap set.

-The keyboard will be plate mounted, and only support Plate mount Cherry stabs. This is to make it easier to fix them.

Thoughts and feedback please.
What about these:

-snip-


Both of them require non standard keycaps :( and the horizontal arrow keys would take too long for the target audience to get used to :(

Can't you just make regular 60% and put the arrows on the number pad? I don't know about Australia but in my country (we have additional characters in the alphabet) no right ALT makes the board useless. I actually like the arrows in Pok3r as FN+I/J/K/L or just RSHIFT, FN, PN, RCTRL. If non standard keycaps are not an option I would just stick to Pok3r arrows options.
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:49:26
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Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Thu, 27 July 2017, 07:34:40
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Title: Re: LF60 (working title) - Super simple 60% kit with arrows.
Post by: TalkingTree on Thu, 27 July 2017, 07:52:23
If you shift the arrow block to the left you can use a R4 1.25u as Fn1 and have less gap among your keys. Like so (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@=~%0A%60&=!%0A1&=%2F@%0A2&=%23%0A3&=$%0A4&=%25%0A5&=%5E%0A6&=%2F&%0A7&=*%0A8&=(%0A9&=)%0A0&=%2F_%0A-&=+%0A%2F=&_w:2%3B&=Backspace%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=Tab&=Q&=W&=E&=R&=T&=Y&=U&=I&=O&=P&=%7B%0A%5B&=%7D%0A%5D&_w:1.5%3B&=%7C%0A%5C%3B&@_w:1.75%3B&=Caps%20Lock&=A&=S&=D&=F&=G&=H&=J&=K&=L&=%2F:%0A%2F%3B&=%22%0A'&_w:2.25%3B&=Enter%3B&@_w:2.25%3B&=Shift&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=N&=M&=%3C%0A,&=%3E%0A.&=%3F%0A%2F%2F&=%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Up'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E&_w:1.25%3B&=1.25u%0ACtrl%3B&@_w:1.25%3B&=Ctrl&_w:1.25%3B&=Win&_w:1.25%3B&=Alt&_a:7&w:6.25%3B&=&_a:4&w:1.25%3B&=Fn0%0AAlt&=%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Left'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E&=%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Down'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E&=%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Right'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E).
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Thu, 27 July 2017, 07:57:25
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Title: Re: LF60 (working title) - Super simple 60% kit with arrows.
Post by: merlin64 on Thu, 27 July 2017, 09:55:53
If the target isn't enthusiasts, but kids, will standard keys really matter?

Also I would argue that if you want to teach proper typing technique, you need to keep that right shift. The gap between ? and the up arrow is an eye sore. I'd put a 1u right shift there.
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Thu, 27 July 2017, 10:04:52
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Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Thu, 27 July 2017, 17:45:25
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Title: Re: LF60 (working title) - Super simple 60% kit with arrows.
Post by: SBJ on Thu, 27 July 2017, 23:57:39
Quote from: linuxfanatic on Thu, 27 July 2017, 17:45:25
Everything I will need for the first prototype of this is ordered. This first version will be a very basic handwired one with a detachable controller. The purpose of this version will be to work on the firmware/matrix side of things.
Nice man. :D
I can't wait to hear how it turns out.
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Fri, 28 July 2017, 00:04:44
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Title: Re: LF60 (working title) - Super simple 60% kit with arrows.
Post by: davkol on Fri, 28 July 2017, 07:59:38
No right Shift? Why that? Kids can't type properly and you want to make sure they don't learn it?

At least the spacebar could have been split (2.75u Shift there, some extra place).
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Fri, 28 July 2017, 09:35:28
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Title: Re: LF60 (working title) - Super simple 60% kit with arrows.
Post by: davkol on Sat, 29 July 2017, 18:34:09
The problem is that the layout as displayed in OP doesn't accommodate proper typing method. Some would argue that standards exist for a reason.

The only way to keep both inverted-T arrow cluster and right Shift is to (a) reduce bottom-row offset and utilize non-standard 2u left Shift (see HHKB Pro JP or Rapoo KX) or (b) put the top arrow between symbols and the right Shift (which can be frustrating when typing), with weirdly aligned spacebar row. Neither is perfect.

Now, split spacebar. If the keyboard lacks 2.75u right Shift to accommodate the arrow cluster, the key and stabilizer can be arguably used in place of a standard 6.25u spacebar. Plenty of sets use the same profiles on the two lower rows, thus profiles wouldn't even be mismatched. 6.25-2.75=3.5… In other words, the remainder can be split between two 1.25u and one 1u, or one 1.5u and two 1u keys. That's easily doable with a standard keycap set.
Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Sat, 29 July 2017, 18:39:00
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Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Sun, 30 July 2017, 19:09:22
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Title: deleted
Post by: _haru on Mon, 21 August 2017, 19:44:30
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