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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 09 March 2010, 00:47:46

Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 09 March 2010, 00:47:46
Anyone know a whole lot about the Cherry G84-4100 series? I found what looks like a good deal on one, a G84-4100PPAUS. What switches do these use? And what would be a fair price for one in good shape?
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 09 March 2010, 12:22:17
No?

You make me sad.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 09 March 2010, 12:29:20
These use MLs and are low-profile, mechanical switches.  They feel sort of like heavier, short-throw Cherry browns.  They are pretty fun to type on from time to time, and I used to haul one around as a portable external 'board for my laptop before I got a HHKB.  The layout is kinda awkward to use for extended periods of time and the switches are a little heavier than I like, personally.  That, and the MLs don't respond too well to being pressed off-center.  I wouldn't pay any more than, say, $20-25 USD shipped for one.  There are plenty to be had as a lot of companies use them for POS 'boards (Victoria's Secret does for sure).
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 09 March 2010, 12:58:51
I can get one for $10 shipped. :D


I was thinking about it as a gaming keyboard. It's small so won't eat up desk space, it has short travel keys for quick response, and they're non-clicky, while still being mechanical and having a tactile bump. For typing on the other hand, they sound dreadful.

Manyak describes them as "An MX Brown with the first half of its travel cut off."


Getting this instead of a Filco Tenkeyless would save me ~$110, so if y'all think it'll do what I want it to do I'll get it ASAP.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: lal on Wed, 10 March 2010, 02:24:04
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;162777
For typing on the other hand, they sound dreadful.


Not dreadful if you can live with the particularities.  The switches feel quite nicely tactile, I'd prefer them over any rubber dome.  In addition to what itlnstln said, another "problem" of the G84 is the smaller surface of the key tops resulting in a narrower alphanumeric area.  I need (too much) time to adjust to the smallness when coming from another board.  Not a problem if you use the G84 exclusively though.  And for 10 bucks... just f*cking try it :)
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 10 March 2010, 08:40:16
They are easily worth $10, even if you just keep it as an emergency spare. Easy to store, easy to transport, and cheap enough that you don't have to worry too much about damaging or losing it.

I'm using one right now on my 2nd PC, it fits nicely on the monitor's base stand.

As mentioned, the key spacing is smaller than normal (18mm versus 19mm IIRC) and the layout is a compromise to save space. Getting used to the Home/End/Page Up/Page Down keys is the worst part, but there is some logic to it, so you could learn to touch type on it if needed.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 10 March 2010, 15:43:37
Quote from: lal;162869
Not dreadful if you can live with the particularities.  The switches feel quite nicely tactile, I'd prefer them over any rubber dome.  In addition to what itlnstln said, another "problem" of the G84 is the smaller surface of the key tops resulting in a narrower alphanumeric area.  I need (too much) time to adjust to the smallness when coming from another board.  Not a problem if you use the G84 exclusively though.  And for 10 bucks... just f*cking try it :)

Well, we'll see. The reason I don't think it would be good is because of the short travel distance, so I'd probably bottom out a lot more. I've been typing on a Model M for the past three months, you see. ;) But we'll see.

I was mainly thinking of it for gaming, as I mentioned... I love my M but it's just too big and loud. But using it as a travel keyboard, hm...

If someone has both a Model M and a G84-4100, could you take a comparison picture so I can see just how small it is? I'm guessing something like the M's alphanumeric section, minus bezel, +/-10%.


One last thing, will these work with a normal PS/2 -> USB converter? I have a couple laying around that are confirmed not to work with the M, and the G84 I'm buying is PS/2 only.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 10 March 2010, 15:45:36
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;162994
One last thing, will these work with a normal PS/2 -> USB converter? I have a couple laying around that are confirmed not to work with the M, and the G84 I'm buying is PS/2 only.

Hm.  That's a good question.  I don't have a converter handy to find out.  Maybe someone here can try it.  I don't see why it wouldn't, though.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 10 March 2010, 15:50:07
I've asked the seller to test it out, so we'll see what he says. It's possible that the controller isn't set up to work that way, or something, I know there are a few keyboards like that... Who knows?

If not then I'll just get an adapter from ClickyKeyboards, and use the Model M via USB.

Another thing occurred to me. These aren't NKRO, are they? I kind of doubt it, but if they are that's cool.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: elbowglue on Wed, 10 March 2010, 15:55:32
Per the specs sheet, the g84-4100 is 10.3 x 5.2 inches.  Check my sig for comparisons.  This sucka is small.  Now granted if you wanted something even smaller you could go with a belkin nostromo. :)

The HHKB listed in my sig is basically the size of a standard alphabetic keyboard layout with the F keys left out and the arrow cluster and numpad cut off.

Different Ps2 to USB adapters work in different ways.  The standard cheap Ps2 to USB adaptor that I bought from ebay here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260490567369&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

dosen't work well with games.  When you hold W down for up, then strafe right (D) then keep running straight (still holding W the whole time) it stops receiving W so you stop dead in your tracks.  You gotta get a good one that won't poop out in certain circumstances.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: TexasFlood on Wed, 10 March 2010, 16:01:01
Quote from: elbowglue;163001
Per the specs sheet, it is 10.3 x 5.2 inches.  Check my sig for comparisons.  This sucka is small.

Very small indeed.  The one with Windows (G84-4100PTMUS) keys has an extremely small spacebar to, not sure that would work for me.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8278&stc=1&d=1268258326)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8279&stc=1&d=1268258326)
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 10 March 2010, 16:05:23
The PPAUS appears to lack Windows keys and have the larger space bar. Again, not ideal for typing, but one thing that I think would be good for gaming is the tilde key right next to space. I could remap that to crouch, so instead of having to move my pinky off of shift to ctrl, I could just move my thumb. I'd have to experiment, but I think that has promise.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 10 March 2010, 18:03:07
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;162994
If someone has both a Model M and a G84-4100, could you take a comparison picture so I can see just how small it is? I'm guessing something like the M's alphanumeric section, minus bezel, +/-10%.


(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5467&d=1256805287)
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 10 March 2010, 18:32:07
Daaaang.

So yeah, size looks good. :)
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Thu, 11 March 2010, 12:32:54
I won the auction, but some ******* bid sniper bumped it up to $13.50 at the last second (ok, 3 seconds before closing). Oh well, $16.50 shipped still isn't bad, and it's less than I paid for my Model M.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=330410808623&Category=31534&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1&autorefresh=true
Title: G84-4100
Post by: TexasFlood on Thu, 11 March 2010, 12:49:06
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;163183
I won the auction, but some ******* bid sniper bumped it up to $13.50 at the last second (ok, 3 seconds before closing). Oh well, $16.50 shipped still isn't bad, and it's less than I paid for my Model M.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=330410808623&Category=31534&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1&autorefresh=true


Sounds like you got it for a reasonable price.  Congrats, hope you like it, sounds like you probably will.  That's ebay for you, usually shark chum in the water in the last minutes and seconds of an auction.  The effect is never good, for a buyer anyway.  For a seller I guess it usually is great.  For a seller you either lose an item you thought you had, pay more for it than desired, or perhaps worst of all, win and pay WAY more than intended.  This last scenario is bad for the buyer and potentially bad for the seller as the buyer may seek to back out.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Thu, 11 March 2010, 16:12:08
Ripster... Where in the world do you find time to make all these lego things? How many legos do you have? Do you have a job, or do you spend all day making lego/keyboard jokes? :p
Title: G84-4100
Post by: trievalot on Fri, 12 March 2010, 16:07:54
shark scum? like recalcitrant sharks?
Title: G84-4100
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 12 March 2010, 16:35:15
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;163265
Ripster... Where in the world do you find time to make all these lego things? How many legos do you have? Do you have a job, or do you spend all day making lego/keyboard jokes? :p


His job is a professional keyboard seller on comission, and the lego advertising is for extra bucks.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: phoenix on Fri, 12 March 2010, 17:51:48
You might enjoy the size comparison between the G84-4100 and the Reuters keyboard :)

http://hi.baidu.com/gearedbyby/blog/item/c93745fb1c3428d4b48f31f7.html
http://hi.baidu.com/gearedbyby/blog/item/ecb811000d79b50c1d9583fb.html

That guy has some really interesting Cherry boards.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: kishy on Fri, 12 March 2010, 20:03:17
Quote from: ripster;163189

Show Image
(http://press.princeton.edu/images/k8435.gif)


Ha, ADB Mouse II.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 12 March 2010, 20:06:11
I just buy old junk on Ebay that nobody else really seems to want like floppy disks and data switches. You all know, there's just some things that aren't worth sniping.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Fri, 12 March 2010, 20:22:14
Quote from: microsoft windows;163547
I just buy old junk on Ebay that nobody else really seems to want like floppy disks and data switches. You all know, there's just some things that aren't worth sniping.


I have an old A/B serial port switch for an IBM printer (I think). Want it? :p
Title: G84-4100
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 12 March 2010, 20:29:15
Nah. I've already filled my needs for data switches. But right now I'm keeping my eyes on this.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8355&stc=1&d=1268447335)
Plan on putting it in my Gateway2000.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: TexasFlood on Fri, 12 March 2010, 21:00:50
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;163183
I won the auction, but some ******* bid sniper bumped it up to $13.50 at the last second (ok, 3 seconds before closing). Oh well, $16.50 shipped still isn't bad, and it's less than I paid for my Model M.

I just looked at soon expiring keyboard deals and saw one that looked interesting, two boards with pointing sticks & buttons that had no bids and expiring in minutes.  In the last 15 seconds it ran up to $113.60.  Just don't get it, that's crazy.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Fri, 12 March 2010, 22:12:01
Quote from: microsoft windows;163561
Nah. I've already filled my needs for data switches. But right now I'm keeping my eyes on this.
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8355&stc=1&d=1268447335)

Plan on putting it in my Gateway2000.


... Is that a combination CD/floppy drive?
Title: G84-4100
Post by: kishy on Sat, 13 March 2010, 18:09:50
Yeah, it's a combo 5.25/3.5. I've wanted one for a while, can't find one at Kishy-approved pricing however.

Which is nonsense, since I can get stacks of basic 5.25" HD drives for free.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Sun, 14 March 2010, 09:02:51
Quote from: phoenix;163517
You might enjoy the size comparison between the G84-4100 and the Reuters keyboard :)

http://hi.baidu.com/gearedbyby/blog/item/c93745fb1c3428d4b48f31f7.html
http://hi.baidu.com/gearedbyby/blog/item/ecb811000d79b50c1d9583fb.html

That guy has some really interesting Cherry boards.


My ass. Can any of the American geekhackers borrow me a shotgun? Got to go visit my local Reuters office.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: skaniol on Tue, 16 March 2010, 05:58:34
This is my current usb keyboard, connected to the laptop:

(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6631/terminatorcopypastexz7.gif)

It's a Logitech UltraX Media with scissor-switches. It died a week ago, after 3.5 years of huge usage. Well, not the entire kbd is dead, but the keys "F1", "2", and "w". I think that it could survive for a longer time if I wasn't playing CS a lot during the last year. These keys are way too important for me to go without using them. Right now, I am using autohotkey to type the "w" key. It's a good temporary solution.

I wanted to get a mechanical keyboard, but here in Bulgaria, the only mechboard that I can find is the G84-4100. My dilemma is whether to go for it, or should I search for a new copy of the UltraX Media (I am really satisfied with this kbd, but I don't like buying keyboards so often <:).

 I am curious how G84 performs compared to the scissor-switch one. I don't think that the layout, or the size of the keyboard will be a big issue. I have small hands and the smaller keys shouldn't be a big problem. Also, I am already used to low-profile keyboards, but there are some other things:

The G84 costs thrice as much as the UltraX. This is also an issue but, if it's worth it, It won't be a very big problem. Well, I would like to find out is it worth it <:

I wish that I could try to type on it before buying, but there is no such option :< Perhaps I will end up with both keyboards (one for typing, one for gaming)...
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 16 March 2010, 07:35:54
Your Ultra-X lasted 3.5 years? Wow. I used these for several years, but I had to replace mine at least once a year.
Anyway, the G80-4100 has linear switches, which are not good for touch typing. Unless you get a chance to try it before buying, you'd better get another Ultra-X.
What layout do you use btw? Cyrillic Bulgarian, or some roman?
Title: G84-4100
Post by: skaniol on Tue, 16 March 2010, 12:06:12
I haven't played many games which need the keyboard much. Perhaps that's why it lasted so long. Also, I tend to use a light touch <; but I typed on it a lot.

Quote
Anyway, the G80-4100 has linear switches, which are not good for touch typing. Unless you get a chance to try it before buying, you'd better get another Ultra-X.
That's why I am afraid to buy it. I won't be able to test it.

Quote
What layout do you use btw? Cyrillic Bulgarian, or some roman?
I use two layouts - the first one is the standart English(US) qwerty layout. To type cyrillic letters, I use the Bulgarian Phonetic layout (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bulgarian_Phonetic_layout.svg), which is almost the same as the QWERTY one, but with the cyrillic equivalents of the latin letters.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 16 March 2010, 12:19:40
Quote from: skaniol;164478
I haven't played many games which need the keyboard much. Perhaps that's why it lasted so long.


Maybe your desk is just cleaner than mine. ;)
US-layout is hard to get in the EU, so it's probably pointless to recommend other mechanical boards. If you like the feel of the Ultra-X, just get another one.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: pfink on Tue, 16 March 2010, 12:49:45
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;162994
One last thing, will these work with a normal PS/2 -> USB converter? I have a couple laying around that are confirmed not to work with the M, and the G84 I'm buying is PS/2 only.


I won one of these (without the Windows keys) on eBay for $9.00 and it arrived yesterday. It works fine with this PS/2 -> USB adapter:

http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productid=4260
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Fri, 19 March 2010, 17:30:41
So, my Cherry G84-4100PPAUS arrived today. I actually didn't know what it was at first, since it came in an envelope instead of a package. First impression: This thing is TINY. I mean, you don't realize just how small this keyboard really is until you see it. I think it might actually have less surface area than my standard-size mousepad. It's smaller than a letter size piece of paper. I cannot overstate how small this keyboard's footprint is. It is ridiculously small.

The switches, Cherry ML Black... Eh. They're nothing special. About like a high-end scissor switch, or a brand new, off-the-machinery high-end rubber dome. It has more tactile feel though, but it's very rounded. Also, if you press a key on its edge it "sticks" just a little bit. Not enough to be a huge issue, but it is there. It's also very quiet, even bottoming out isn't that loud, and it's fairly easy not to bottom out. The key spacing is smaller than standard, but manageable; it took me about thirty seconds to adjust. The layout is decent, but some keys have odd placement. For instance, I wish they'd put the Del key up next to Backspace, instead of down by Alt. There are a few other gaffes like that, but I think I could get used to it.

Overall, it's still fairly pleasant to type on, but can't hold a candle to the M.


Haven't tried gaming on it yet, but so far I think that my original speculation that the short travel time would be good for gaming is correct. The rollover is fairly good, 2KRO and fleshed out around the WASD cluster. I tried most of the main "complex" gaming combinations and they all pass. But I don't think it's the standard IBM matrix.


Overall I think it's a good little keyboard, especially for what I paid ($16.50 shipped, I think up to $25 would be fair). Good for gaming due to the short travel and small footprint, and I think this would make a good travel keyboard so I don't have to use a rubberdome while away from home. I could even see myself taking this to school if we used computers enough for it to be worthwhile.

So far, good impressions all around. :)
Title: G84-4100
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 20 March 2010, 08:59:27
I have a client that has one of these connected to an Eye scanning computer.  I spent some time on it last week and was quite impressed for what it was.  If you needed a really small footprint keyboard that was really thin and very durable, this would probably be my first recommendation.  I didn't think a board this small would be usable but it's not bad at all.  If someone wanted to pack a small board for libraries, internet cafes or school or something, this would be a great option.  You have to see one in person to appreciate how small it is, yet the alpha-numeric keys are full sized.

Cute little bugger.
(http://rocky.digikey.com/weblib/Cherry/Web%20Photo/G84-4100PPAUS.jpg)
Title: G84-4100
Post by: test157 on Sat, 20 March 2010, 09:46:32
Quote from: skaniol;164416
This is my current usb keyboard, connected to the laptop:

Show Image
(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6631/terminatorcopypastexz7.gif)


It's a Logitech UltraX Media with scissor-switches. It died a week ago, after 3.5 years of huge usage. Well, not the entire kbd is dead, but the keys "F1", "2", and "w". I think that it could survive for a longer time if I wasn't playing CS a lot during the last year. These keys are way too important for me to go without using them. Right now, I am using autohotkey to type the "w" key. It's a good temporary solution.

I wanted to get a mechanical keyboard, but here in Bulgaria, the only mechboard that I can find is the G84-4100. My dilemma is whether to go for it, or should I search for a new copy of the UltraX Media (I am really satisfied with this kbd, but I don't like buying keyboards so often <:).

 I am curious how G84 performs compared to the scissor-switch one. I don't think that the layout, or the size of the keyboard will be a big issue. I have small hands and the smaller keys shouldn't be a big problem. Also, I am already used to low-profile keyboards, but there are some other things:
  • Some say that typing on the G84 requires a bit too much force. How this compares to a scissor-switch type in numbers? I don't like too heavy keys, since typing speed decreases a lot and it's too tyring for the fingers.
  • Is speed typing possible on such a keyboard? I like to type fast and I usually go above 100 wpm in speed. On my current keyboard it is comfortable enough to reach such speeds.
  • Someone said that there are problems if you don't press on the center of the key. Is it really that bad? :< Does it mean that keys don't register sometimes?

The G84 costs thrice as much as the UltraX. This is also an issue but, if it's worth it, It won't be a very big problem. Well, I would like to find out is it worth it <:

I wish that I could try to type on it before buying, but there is no such option :< Perhaps I will end up with both keyboards (one for typing, one for gaming)...

If size doesn't matter for you, just buy another one ultrax, also good feelings are from logitech perfect switch, but if only you love their layout. I'am with Topre HHKB right now, before this I was 3-4 years with ultrax. right now I think, that the one best thing about hhkb it's layout, it's work very good for me(but took some time to get used it) but the key feelings e.t.c., are very good with ultrax, you can type much faster with it. Topre good too, but every time I return to my notebook or ultrax, I feel that key feelings are so gooood, so easier to type e.t.c. ;)

but be aware, new ultrax have very bad quality build, if you can find some 3-4 years ago model, it will work better for you.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: elbowglue on Sat, 20 March 2010, 11:08:47
Quote from: ripster;165574
Has someone actually taken a ruler and confirmed the main cluster is full sized?

It is not full sized imho.  I don't have the keyboard but here is why:
The G84ML in question is 10.3 inches across.  There are 15 keys across the top row, all the same size.  If you assume there is zero lateral ridge, this would give you 0.69 inches laterally per key.

The HHKB also has 15 keys across the top row, all the same size, with known standard spacing.  It has little to no lateral ridge, giving about 0.77 inches laterally per key.

One thing about mechanical switch keyboards is that I have never seen keys smaller than the minimum average size.  That is, some rubber domes and scissor boards have "half size keys" (arrow keys on the HHKB Lite), but these half size keys wouldn't fly on a mechanical switch KB.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Sat, 20 March 2010, 11:25:36
Quote from: elbowglue;165599
It is not full sized imho.  I don't have the keyboard but here is why:
The G84ML in question is 10.3 inches across.  There are 15 keys across the top row, all the same size.  If you assume there is zero lateral ridge, this would give you 0.69 inches laterally per key.

The HHKB also has 15 keys across the top row, all the same size, with known standard spacing.  It has little to no lateral ridge, giving about 0.77 inches laterally per key.

One thing about mechanical switch keyboards is that I have never seen keys smaller than the minimum average size.  That is, some rubber domes and scissor boards have "half size keys" (arrow keys on the HHKB Lite), but these half size keys wouldn't fly on a mechanical switch KB.


But we aren't talking about the keys in general, but the alphanumeric section which someone claimed was full sized. And since there is no row with just alphanumeric keys you can't extrapolate from the keyboard's dimensions.

Sadly, I have no ruler on hand.

Also, these are not typical mechanical switches, they're Cherry ML with are low-profile and from my eye appear to be smaller than standard MX switches.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Sat, 20 March 2010, 13:53:02
Here's some size comparison pics of the G84-4100:

(http://www.overclock.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=146861&stc=1&d=1269110766)

(http://www.overclock.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=146862&stc=1&d=1269110766)
That's a Model M it's sitting on.


(http://www.overclock.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=146865&stc=1&d=1269110963)

Notice how little of my desk it takes up.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: kishy on Sat, 20 March 2010, 14:26:49
Heh, mine will do the same thing...lays down with her nose against whatever I'm trying to photograph.

Fact: for recent M13 photos, camera was in one hand, dog in the other.

As for this G84-4100 thing, I get the feeling this is what Black's Photography has on their photo printing stations. It looks...so...similar. I'll see what I can do in the direction of finding out more.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 20 March 2010, 14:31:43
Quote from: ripster;165660
Looks like a 93% of standard or so keyboard.  A bit small but usable.

My dog likes Bluetooth mini keyboards.
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8597&stc=1&d=1269112723)


That is the smallest keyboard I've ever seen. I could NEVER force myself to type on keys the size of needle tips.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 20 March 2010, 18:36:13
Quote from: ripster;165670
Someday I'll be sitting in rocking chair with my IBM Model M in my lap yelling at the family.

"Back in the day we used to type with our FINGERS not our THUMBS."


Don't worry. Darwinism is on our side (http://gizmodo.com/5312623/teenager-falls-into-open-manhole-while-texting).

At least youngsters still need their fingers for clawing their way out of manholes.
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Mon, 22 March 2010, 00:30:10
Forgive the repeats and obvious comments... I posted this on other, less-keyboard oriented forums as well.


(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/080/8/4/Cherry_G84_p1_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
This is my new Cherry G84-4100PPAUS ultraslim keyboard which I got refurbished off of eBay for $16.50. It's approximately 11" by 5.5" and is ~0.8" thick at the back and ~0.2" thick at the front. It is ridiculously small. It takes up less desk space than my standard size mousepad.

Better yet it uses mechanical switches, rather than a cheap membrane or scissor switches like 99.9% of the keyboards on the market. Specifically, it uses Cherry ML switches which are tactile and non-clicky. For keyboard enthusiasts with some knowledge of Cherry switches, these are basically slightly heavier, short-travel MX brown switches with a jump in force at the end to keep you from bottoming out (as much, at least). They are very quiet during normal typing, even if you bottom out, due to the jump in force at the end. However, they do have one issue, where if you hit a key on its corner it will "stick" before actuating. I've narrowed this down to the tabs on the keycaps not being quite snug with the holes in the switch stem. This may be a fixable issue, I'm not sure. In the meantime it's somewhat annoying, but doesn't detract much from the keyboard's usefulness as a gaming and travel keyboard.

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/080/0/5/Cherry_G84_p2_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
I've unscrewed the cover and lifted it off. Let's get a closer look, shall we?

(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/080/9/a/Cherry_G84_p3_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
I've removed a few key caps> Here you can see the Cherry ML switches. In a typical keyboard you'd see a hole leading to a rubber dome, or with scissor switch keyboards a little lever-like arrangement, with a rubber dome underneath.

(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/080/9/e/Cherry_G84_p4_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
Those are the tabs on the keycaps I mentioned earlier, that aren't quite snug. I'm investigating how to beef them up a little so the keycap isn't free to tilt, and thus will no longer stick.

(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/080/e/7/Cherry_G84_p5_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
Lettering appear to be dyesub.

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/080/8/f/Cherry_G84_p6_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/080/d/4/Cherry_G84_p7_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
A couple pics of the main PCB and controller board. The PCB (printed circuit board) is a nice feature, as opposed to the more common membrane and plate mounting system. One benefit of using a PCB instead of a membrane is that you can mount diodes, allowing the board to be NKRO (any number of keys can be pressed at once, as opposed to just a few; this board is currently 2KRO). I'm currently investigating the feasibility of surface mounting diodes to the board to allow it to have NKRO functionality.

I had to prop up the PCB with a sponge. :p It was the only thing on hand firm enough to hold it up, but not hard enough to damage anything.


I had some trouble putting it back together due to some deep screw wells, but I got it done and it works fine. :)



Thanks for reading!
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Mon, 22 March 2010, 01:05:24
Pad printed? Huh. If so, it's exceptionally well done. I can't see any raised edges or anything. Must be printed across the entire key.





EDIT: Also, Cherry claims keyswitch rating of 50 million operations:
Quote
Keyswitch Lifetime
     50 million operations
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/Industrial/4100/index.htm
Title: G84-4100
Post by: Manyak on Mon, 22 March 2010, 04:48:44
Hey Phaedrus......that's the same Husky screwdriver I use!


Wait.....I just set ripster up for that one.  :madgrin:
Title: G84-4100
Post by: trievalot on Mon, 22 March 2010, 05:49:06
ordered my ML4100 today......$1.04 (plus shipping :P)