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geekhack Marketplace => Great Finds => Topic started by: nowsharing on Sun, 14 March 2010, 12:36:11

Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: nowsharing on Sun, 14 March 2010, 12:36:11
:mod: :mod:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380187028937
NIB M13s @ $75 Buy-it-now.

I made an offer of $100 for two and he accepted it, so you might be able to pick them up for closer to $50. He combined the shipping for me at $19, and offered to refund the difference if it turned out to cost less.

Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: nowsharing on Sun, 14 March 2010, 13:25:57
Nice M13 collection Webwit. On your black model, did you dye the Esc key and trackpoint cap together? The combination really modernizes that board.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 14 March 2010, 13:33:35
They're not dyed, it's a Unicomp coloured keycap, and there were caps made in a load of colours other than red.

On my Black M13, I have the red cap and a red keycap on Esc.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: skcheng on Sun, 14 March 2010, 14:29:25
wow, they went fast.  should have offered more for one.....
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: nowsharing on Sun, 14 March 2010, 14:37:48
Quote
The trackpoint and green key cap are as-is, here and here (or here).
Excellent, thanks for the links. I've never come across the Fentek site before, I'm putting together an order now. I've had the idea of an all-white M for some time now, I could take up the project eventually now that I know white keycaps are out there, and they're blank to boot.

Quote
Also selling a matching keyboard drawer. Costs more than the keyboard. That is one heavy duty keyboard drawer though.
Good lord! Someone here needs to buy that, for posterity's sake.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: nowsharing on Sun, 14 March 2010, 17:41:54
Quote
On my Black M13, I have the red cap and a red keycap on Esc.
Do you have pictures of that setup? I searched through your posts but couldn't turn one up.

Oh and I almost forgot,

No problem, Ripster
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: TexasFlood on Sun, 14 March 2010, 19:07:21
Quote from: webwit;163937
I got two of them NIB, thanks for the tip ;) The "sk" part in the description looks a bit suspicious and it lacks info, but I like a gamble.


Wondered about that "Ibm #P20L2731 (6045) KeyBoard W/Trip (N) Ibm/Sk", and what's W/Trip (N), or is it obvious and I'm missing it?
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: TexasFlood on Sun, 14 March 2010, 19:51:56
Quote from: webwit;164036
It can mean three things:

1. Ncbound style. Put as much crap in the title as possible to get into those searches. Vintage G80-3000 Cherry Alps IBM NMB keyboard!

2. They don't know what they're selling.

3. It is secretly a rubber dome with a bad trackpoint.

Oooh the suspense.

Hah...

After looking at the pictures again, looks like it was mostly a cut & paste job from the label.  Or perhaps a scan of the UPC(s) in which case maybe Sk means sku or something.  Dunno...

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8394&stc=1&d=1268613996)
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: TexasFlood on Sun, 14 March 2010, 20:06:23
If you look at the label (above), it actually states W/TRP, not W/Trip.  So bad cut & paste which almost certainly means "With Trackpoint".  The Sk I'm not sure about unless it means sku as I said, just a theory though.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: nowsharing on Sun, 14 March 2010, 20:21:41
Quote
I was going to ask NowSharing, Ebay Search Kung Fu Master, how he came up with this one. Searching through "IBM Keyboard" yields 3,622 hits.

It was late last night and I was either browing the vintage computer section with the generic "IBM Keyboard" search (I can't really be bothered by the other brands), or more likely I was using the dark side, a potent search that I keep trying to perfect

The funniest thing about this auction is that to both of the questions that I posted for the seller, he replied by giving me his phone # to call. It was a nice old fashioned way of sealing an Ebay deal. Unfortunately he won't have any more of these to offer up.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: TexasFlood on Sun, 14 March 2010, 20:21:52
Also googling IBM SK found that it used to be one of a group of codes to identify shipping containers, SK being a 35.63 x 10.63 x 7.50 box.  Seems a bit large for a keyboard, but it would certainly fit, :smile:
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: kishy on Thu, 18 March 2010, 13:28:16
I brought up plastic texture in your giant quality thread. It does vary from board type to board type, manufacturer to manufacturer, and seemingly plastic colour to plastic colour.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: nowsharing on Thu, 18 March 2010, 13:32:15
Nice update Ripster. Could I request some more pictures?
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 18 March 2010, 13:43:52
Quote from: ripster;165168
Not sure if anyone has ever figured out if there really WAS a difference in controller boards/trackpoints or if this is all perception.


This has been confirmed many many times, even Unicomp's old website concedes this.

I like how you always assume that everyone who says that there's any difference between older and newer IBMs/Unicomps is automatically wrong.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: TexasFlood on Thu, 18 March 2010, 14:45:21
Quote from: webwit;165178
Come on. Like anyone but Unicomp would impossibly combine the clashing blue logo with the grey/olive color.

I actually like the colors.  The Unicomp "force sensing resistor" trackpoint is not thrilling, wonder if it could be retrofitted?
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 18 March 2010, 15:02:56
It would probably work out easier to get a donor M13 and swap the insides... For one, the Unicomp FSR is attached to the top of the assembly where as the IBM Trackpoint is positioned with the membrane, and the stick comes out through a hole in the top assembly. The electronics are also quite different, which means that it could be possible to hack an IBM keyboard to have a Unicomp trackpoint, but not the other way around.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 18 March 2010, 17:21:08
On my Endurapro (PS/2), there was a controller like the one in your second pic secured to the underside of the keyboard assembly to which the pointing stick directly attached. The keyboard's controller (standard 42H' style) was connected to the pointing stick controller as was the PS/2 y-cable. What's interesting about the design of the Unicomp controller is that it acts like a PS/2 keyboard pass through, so it should be trivial (from an electronics perspective) to adapt the pointing stick to work in any keyboard you wish.

If memory serves me correct, the controller in my M13 is like a classic Model M controller except extended at the side. Both the keyboard assembly and trackpoint are directly connected to it. The components on the controller which control the trackpoint are covered in what looked like the lining of a cigarette box.

Your board is neither... It looks like they got an M13 controller, and instead of connecting it to the pointing stick directly, they hooked it up to a controller which 'translated' the pointing stick's signals to ones that the M13 controller could make sense of. I guess this was back in the day when they had large quantities of surplus IBM stock, so this might have cut down on the complexity of the components they had to make themselves at the expense of being rather hackish.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 18 March 2010, 18:34:53
That style of cable was standard on the M13s, and any 52G' style Model M.

And I misunderstood the pictures (quite tired at the moment) There's only one controller board there, so on a superficial basis it's the same as the M13. The fact that it has a chip with the marking "LEXMARK 1994" would suggest that the electronics are the same as the M13.

Perhaps the IBM and Unicomp pointing sticks/Trackpoints are electrically compatible with eachother, and Unicomp seperated the controllers in the manner I described above in order to made it readily adaptable to other keyboards. The pointing stick you have there is definitely the Unicomp one, and that is definitely different to the IBM one... If you compared it with the one in your M4-1 you'll feel the difference.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: nowsharing on Thu, 18 March 2010, 19:58:53
Great pictures--I'm even more stoked about the board now that I've seen them, and it will be by far the newest M in my cache. I'm partial to the Blue logos for cuteness' sake, although if there is a hint of olive in the frame...we'll have to see.

Quote
the Ebay seller didn't double box it


:puke: :puke:

I told the guy (on the phone!) that the reason our forum was excited about these was because they were new in box and therefore more collectible. I guess he couldn't be bothered to find more boxes.

It's good to hear that yours arrived unscathed. I had an espresso grinder shipped in its own box a while back that wasn't so lucky, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

BTW I wouldn't afford to have an M shipped to Brazil, which could easily triple the price. If it is to come south with me, it'll have to be a carry-on.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: kishy on Thu, 18 March 2010, 20:14:18
Recall I already did internal shots of a Maxi Switch M13, ripster.

If you need more detail let me know what you wanna see, I'll get them ASAP.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: kishy on Thu, 18 March 2010, 21:41:40
Hmm, so which is the real one and which is the fake one?

Looks like I've got what Webwit's got.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8514&stc=1&d=1268966453)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8513&stc=1&d=1268966453)

Controller:

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8512&stc=1&d=1268966453)

The original pics were in my M5-2 thread, well obscured, and not showing the details of the stick either way.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: TexasFlood on Thu, 18 March 2010, 22:13:49
Pretty close, but not identical...
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8516&stc=1&d=1268968368)
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: TexasFlood on Thu, 18 March 2010, 23:38:52
Looks like maybe 5 traces there, can't tell for sure.
If so maybe they map to the obvious 5 traces of the Unicomp trackpoint.
Quick glance at a TPM754 data sheets, maybe X, Y, Z, power and ground?

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8520&stc=1&d=1268979753)
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: elservo on Fri, 19 March 2010, 00:42:57
Gorgeous boards!  Really like the olive hue to the case.  Ugh, I need a new job.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sun, 21 March 2010, 15:18:59
Quote from: ripster;165915
In fact what I SHOULD do is fill up a suitcase with my NIB IBMs when I go to Japan - would pay for the trip.


Nice...

Don't forget the NIB apple stuff when you go to california.
Title: NIB Grey M13s - $75 BIN OBO
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 22 March 2010, 12:14:48
Quote from: kishy;165283
Looks like I've got what Webwit's got.


¿Tourette syndrome?