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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: rich1051414 on Thu, 21 September 2017, 16:41:40
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I had a dump find today, a chicony 5191, which initially felt pretty cheap for the period it is from, but then i typed on it and the switches felt like nothing I have ever felt before. It's very dirty and sun yellowed, but I am definitely going to retrobrite this one. They are clicky, but kind of quiet, except on the upstroke, which is louder than the downstroke.The stiffness is medium-stiff, and they seem to be non-linear, like you hit a soft fluffy cloud before bottoming out, a very different tactile experience, and quite nice. The large keys have costar stabilizers. The nicest part is the switch is mx compatible :D Here is a picture of the switch, someone please let me know what I found!
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Google says... https://deskthority.net/wiki/Chicony_KB-5191
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I assume it is a Futaba Cherry MX-mount variant then? Never heard of them. The wiki doesn't say much about them either. Are they sought after, rare, ignored, unsung? I DO know of Mitsumi miniature mechanical yellow's, they are HORRIBLE, thank god these aren't those.
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Futaba clickies.
https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/futaba-clicky-switch-thoughts-t14941.html?hilit=futaba (https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/futaba-clicky-switch-thoughts-t14941.html?hilit=futaba)
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Grinding up the keycaps and smoking them is not the proper way to evaluate keyboards..
That is not healthy...
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MX Mount Futaba Clickies.
I actually don't see these talked about too much. Would love for Chyros to review them.
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I wonder if they're anything like SMK Gen2 switches. Because the way you describe that "double-click" like action, it sure sounds like they might be. I adore SMK Gen2's, I want to wire a custom board out of them. I'd love to try these Futabas.
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MX Mount Futaba Clickies.
I actually don't see these talked about too much. Would love for Chyros to review them.
There will be a review of them at some point and I'll try to address tge inconsistencies regarding them as well.
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I think I just spotted another(Mx Compatible Futaba MA Clicky) on ebay. It sure looks like it anyway.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Laser-Mechanical-Clicky-AT-Keyboard-91/152687598208?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Da4744dc50e0c43d4b2cc429c35b1e0db%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D263169359871&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726
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I think I just spotted another(Mx Compatible Futaba MA Clicky) on ebay. It sure looks like it anyway.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Laser-Mechanical-Clicky-AT-Keyboard-91/152687598208?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Da4744dc50e0c43d4b2cc429c35b1e0db%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D263169359871&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726
It's not. This is the SMK Second Generation (https://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_second_generation) switch I was talking about earlier. It has an amazing click sensation, almost like a double-click, and it's cherry MX cap compatible. I have one of these LASER boards, unfortunately the one I got has water damage so I need to figure out how to design my own PCB. :thumb:
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I think I just spotted another(Mx Compatible Futaba MA Clicky) on ebay. It sure looks like it anyway.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Laser-Mechanical-Clicky-AT-Keyboard-91/152687598208?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Da4744dc50e0c43d4b2cc429c35b1e0db%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D263169359871&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726
It's not. This is the SMK Second Generation (https://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_second_generation) switch I was talking about earlier. It has an amazing click sensation, almost like a double-click, and it's cherry MX cap compatible. I have one of these LASER boards, unfortunately the one I got has water damage so I need to figure out how to design my own PCB. :thumb:
Thanks, you saved someone from disappointment. That is interesting, how they managed to both use the same style of cylindrically boxed mx mount, AND they both happened to have a click on the up and downstroke. I wonder if it is the case of futaba imitating SMK...
I have to figure out how to non-destructively break into these switches and check out the construction.
Edit: If anyone is curious, this is what the futaba clicky switch sounds like(no bottoming out, just switch sound)
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I think I just spotted another(Mx Compatible Futaba MA Clicky) on ebay. It sure looks like it anyway.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Laser-Mechanical-Clicky-AT-Keyboard-91/152687598208?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Da4744dc50e0c43d4b2cc429c35b1e0db%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D263169359871&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726
It's not. This is the SMK Second Generation (https://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_second_generation) switch I was talking about earlier. It has an amazing click sensation, almost like a double-click, and it's cherry MX cap compatible. I have one of these LASER boards, unfortunately the one I got has water damage so I need to figure out how to design my own PCB. :thumb:
Thanks, you saved someone from disappointment. That is interesting, how they managed to both use the same style of cylindrically boxed mx mount, AND they both happened to have a click on the up and downstroke. I wonder if it is the case of futaba imitating SMK...
I have to figure out how to non-destructively break into these switches and check out the construction.
Edit: If anyone is curious, this is what the futaba clicky switch sounds like(no bottoming out, just switch sound)
SMK and Futaba switches are quite dissimilar. The SMK uses a click leaf (like alps) to generate the click and tactility. When you press down a futaba you are inverting a plate spring. This is why you hear another click when you release the key, as the plate spring resets.
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Quick question. Does anyone know how exactly you open these? I notice what looks like plastic rivets on the 4 corners of the key on top, which makes me think they might be sealed, which is disappointing. I was hoping to give the insides a cleaning, but I see no way into them. Kind of scared to get forceful, as I don't want to be destructive.
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Quick question. Does anyone know how exactly you open these? I notice what looks like plastic rivets on the 4 corners of the key on top, which makes me think they might be sealed, which is disappointing. I was hoping to give the insides a cleaning, but I see no way into them. Kind of scared to get forceful, as I don't want to be destructive.
They are sealed. You won't be able to open them without destroying them.
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Quick question. Does anyone know how exactly you open these? I notice what looks like plastic rivets on the 4 corners of the key on top, which makes me think they might be sealed, which is disappointing. I was hoping to give the insides a cleaning, but I see no way into them. Kind of scared to get forceful, as I don't want to be destructive.
In my experience these switches do not become scratchy even with heavy use or on dirty boards. I'm curious as to why you want to clean them.
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They are not scratchy at all, however, I was wanting to for good measure while I had the keyboard apart. Also, they may be more representative of their former glory if any grime was interfering with click operation, and since I did not get this keyboard when new, I have no idea if that is the case.
And thanks Chyros, ah well. I guess that saves me some work at the very least.
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Update.
Here is the keyboard after cleanup.
[attach=1]
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They are sealed. You won't be able to open them without destroying them.
Someone took his apart and then reassembled them using carbon fibre tape. There's pictures of it somewhere as I saw them the other day. Must be good adhesive on the tape if it can hold a switch together against the spring forces.
Not something I'd recommend anyone try though — you have to know what you're doing.
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They are sealed. You won't be able to open them without destroying them.
Someone took his apart and then reassembled them using carbon fibre tape. There's pictures of it somewhere as I saw them the other day. Must be good adhesive on the tape if it can hold a switch together against the spring forces.
Not something I'd recommend anyone try though — you have to know what you're doing.
Indeed. The photos are in this thread:
https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/futaba-clicky-switch-thoughts-t14941.html?hilit=futaba
I just desoldered all the switches from an old EAT-1010 board - cyan slider Futaba clickies. I going to disassemble a few of them in an attempt to understand the mechanism, and why a number of switches on the board have 'lost' their click.
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Just an update, I have learned a lot about this switch since this post, and I have come to the conclusion that the inconsistency in this switch is inherent to the switch, and that the switches will inevitably age toward a weaker click and tactility. I have tried all the tricks to increase tactility, and the only thing that gave any results was desoldering and resoldering, and I think it is because it causes the metal to expand and contract and it partially restores the original bend of the 'foil tactile dome'(I don't really know what to call it). Pressing the switch past the actuation point also seems to temporarily help on some keys, but it doesn't last long. Also, it seems that the click seems to fade when keys AREN'T pressed instead of the other way around. For instance, the vowels all have the loudest click and most tactility. However, the less common vowels have the most. The letter Y pings like a model F.
I also just pulled 6 of them off the drying rack after a sealed ultrasonic cleaning, and the difference was negligible. Ultrasonically cleaning them, at least when sealed, seems to do basically nothing, however, the bath was quite nasty after the cleaning, so it did do something
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Very interesting keyboard! Thank you for posting. Can't wait for Chyros's video review. :thumb:
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Futabas!! Definitely a divisive (opinion-polarizing) switch here. I once found a NIB board with them, posted an enthusiastic review, and was shocked at the scorn I gleaned from some peeps.
Personally, I think that, esp. with a dab of lube, they're super. A considerably different feel from most switches, but quite fun IMHO.
Now Fujitsu Peerless switches (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Fujitsu_Peerless), that's entirely different—even though they both start with fu.
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BTW, when I saw this thread's subject, my immediate thought was, "Wow, one of these guys finally got a date!" :?D
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BTW, when I saw this thread's subject, my immediate thought was, "Wow, one of these guys finally got a date!" :?D
Ha! No, but that is actually perfect, as that was my sentiments exactly the first time. I swear, i don't actually have a keyboard fetish. ...looks around nervously...
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Ha! No, but that is actually perfect, as that was my sentiments exactly the first time. I swear, i don't actually have a keyboard fetish. ...looks around nervously...
Obviously, then, all those keebs in your sig, that was just some typing exercise.