geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: EkV on Wed, 27 September 2017, 06:44:29
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A few weeks ago I had the luck to find an announcement for a 1990 IBM-made Model M in italian layout in seemingly excellent conditions, basically everything I was looking for. And so I bought it.
It arrived the other day:
[attach=1]
Detachable coiled cable, two parts keycaps, grey secondary lettering on the numpad, and the left Alt key has green lettering, while the right Alt Gr is black.
Although not excessively dirty, it was clear it needed a good cleaning. I started with the caps, and noticed that the undercaps corresponding to the F, J, and 5 (numpad) were white instead of grey, a detail I enjoyed a lot.
[attach=2]
The spacebar is wire-stabilized, while all the others use shaft stabilizers.
I didn't want to spend for a 5.5mm nut driver, but the bic and lighter did the trick anyway. Once inside I found dust wool on the base, and that two plastic rivers broke off. I decided I won't do a bolts and nuts mod yet: if it's not broken (too much), don't fix it, am I right?
Many hours and q-tips later the barrel plate was clean again, at which point I noticed that the insides of the barrels, especially those of the most used keys, were coated with an extremely fine white powder; I blew inside the barrels with a straw, and it helped, but wasn't enough, so I dusted them with more (dry) q-tips and it removed most of the dust, but in the corners the dust was still there.
I then used a cleaned keycap to see if I felt any difference, and the results worried me deeply:
F keys and other less used barrels were noticeably smoother than the main letters regardless of the cleanup I did up to that point.
Now, considering I don't want to separate the barrel plate from the metal plate, I have two options:
- use more q-tips with a cleaning agent
- lubricate the barrels
Both options have risks: both the cleaning agent and the lubricant might be corrosive for the plastic, as I read here on geekhack and other forums, and I don't know what can be safe to use. Are the barrels just worn out or an effective cleaning might solve this problem? What do you guys suggest?
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Bolt mod and wash the barrel plate in soap / water (but that is just me).
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Never lubricate a buckling spring keyboard. There are people who do and probably swear by it but it isn't needed.
The rough keys might just smooth out with a little use.
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I'd really like to avoid doing a bolt mod for a few reasons: first and foremost because I fear of damaging it, since I don't have any experience in this kind of work and I neither have access to precision tools like a vertical drill press to help me. Secondly, as I already stated, I really hate the idea of having to damage it further first in order to fix it.
Lastly, I wanted to try every non-destructive option first.
If lubrication isn't advised, the only option is a deeper, more scrupulous cleaning of the barrels' insides.
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Never lubricate a buckling spring keyboard. There are people who do and probably swear by it but it isn't needed.
The rough keys might just smooth out with a little use.
What about lubricating the plastic stems on the larger keys. The ones that go into empty holes, not the ones that press the springs. Would some superlube help off-center key presses? (sorry to thread jack, just got my first M as well and I'm in the process of cleaning)
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I was rounding up the cleaned caps and I the following: caps have been molded differently.
EDIT: I've realized I miscounted the caps circled in purple: they're 64
[attach=1]
When I removed them I didn't notice this difference, so I really have no idea what keys they were attached to, and I couldn't find anything on the internet regarding this peculiarity either.
Anyone knows anything about why such differences and their placement in the keyboard?
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Never lubricate a buckling spring keyboard. There are people who do and probably swear by it but it isn't needed.
The rough keys might just smooth out with a little use.
What about lubricating the plastic stems on the larger keys. The ones that go into empty holes, not the ones that press the springs. Would some superlube help off-center key presses? (sorry to thread jack, just got my first M as well and I'm in the process of cleaning)
I wouldn't do that either, but that is a little more common. The thing is, on the +1x keys you're not hitting them that often anyway. If they're really jamming up you may have the wrong insert in the wrong barrel. All the inserts aren't the same and they're not all symmetric either.
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I was rounding up the cleaned caps and I the following: caps have been molded differently.
....
Anyone knows anything about why such differences and their placement in the keyboard?
Sloppy production. The corners are supposed to be open. If the end is covering a hollow space then I doubt much is different, but a filled corner maybe that would dampen spring vibration thru the key a bit?
They're all interchangeable as they are.
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Sloppy production. The corners are supposed to be open. If the end is covering a hollow space then I doubt much is different, but a filled corner maybe that would dampen spring vibration thru the key a bit?
They're all interchangeable as they are.
Honestly I thought about production defects, especially for those circled in green and blue, but those circled in red are so well made it made me think they were produced like that on purpose, more for spring weighting rather than vibration dampening. Still, quality's exceptional.
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Never lubricate a buckling spring keyboard. There are people who do and probably swear by it but it isn't needed.
The rough keys might just smooth out with a little use.
What about lubricating the plastic stems on the larger keys. The ones that go into empty holes, not the ones that press the springs. Would some superlube help off-center key presses? (sorry to thread jack, just got my first M as well and I'm in the process of cleaning)
I wouldn't do that either, but that is a little more common. The thing is, on the +1x keys you're not hitting them that often anyway. If they're really jamming up you may have the wrong insert in the wrong barrel. All the inserts aren't the same and they're not all symmetric either.
I just tried the key again after vacuuming out dirt off the plate and it's fine. The right shift was jamming when pressed on its left side, but I guess there must have been dirt in that barrel. All good now!
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Are F/J/5 keys usually s different colour?
I've cleaned a couple of mine, but didn't notice anything like that.
And I have a small collection of spare keys of all sorts of colours, mostly shades of gray, a few black, quite a few white ones.
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Are F/J/5 keys usually s different colour?
I've cleaned a couple of mine, but didn't notice anything like that.
And I have a small collection of spare keys of all sorts of colours, mostly shades of gray, a few black, quite a few white ones.
Don't know about "usually", but I've seen it often enough. As those are the keys with the nubs on them, possible they came off a different line and were mated up with the full set (where the stems may or may not match).
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Are F/J/5 keys usually s different colour?
I've cleaned a couple of mine, but didn't notice anything like that.
And I have a small collection of spare keys of all sorts of colours, mostly shades of gray, a few black, quite a few white ones.
The keycaps usually aren't, but the stems often are.
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How much was it?
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Don't know about "usually", but I've seen it often enough. As those are the keys with the nubs on them, possible they came off a different line and were mated up with the full set (where the stems may or may not match).
This sounds feasible.
The keycaps usually aren't, but the stems often are.
Stems, yes, sorry, bad terminology.
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Are F/J/5 keys usually s different colour?
I've cleaned a couple of mine, but didn't notice anything like that.
And I have a small collection of spare keys of all sorts of colours, mostly shades of gray, a few black, quite a few white ones.
The keycaps usually aren't, but the stems often are.
Are we talking about the F1-F4 being the same color as F5-F8 and F9-F12 being the same color as F1-F4?
Is this what you are asking about Rowdy?
The 1391401 and others in the "PC" (Generally the PC-AT and later the PS/2 systems) had the key caps (and even with the 1370477 with one-piece keys) with the Pearl/Pebble/Pearl/Pebble on the top row.
Arguably, with the RS-6000 systems, there were other minor, but very similar to the 1391401 legends.
Then the "terminal emulation' keyboards for those using PC's but still requiring special legends come to mind like the 1393464 for airlines that used the "Sabre" network is a good example of that.
Even to this day, you can still obtain special keyboards for medical and other companies that require them.
And of course, some may still be in use and will be in use for plenty of years to come.
If that wasn't what your question was about Rowdy, please move along to the next relevant message.
Edit:
What I meant by PC was PC-AT or newer. Don't confuse this with XT.
Another thing came to mind when I was reading this.
Did the Function Key row really mean anything?
The short answer is YES it did. Especially with custom templates for software that made life a little more simple for everyone.
The templates that came with software were a great asset especially when you were using your PC with more than one program.
I just had to extrapolate a little about that point. However the color of the function keys really were more for aesthetics for the consumer. In a work environment, pretty much every single terminal 121 and 102-key got hammered on and technically abused to the point of no return. They still were tanks compared to anything else at the time.
They were tough, went through plenty of abuse, and still held up.
So yeah, I admire them.
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Are F/J/5 keys usually s different colour?
I've cleaned a couple of mine, but didn't notice anything like that.
And I have a small collection of spare keys of all sorts of colours, mostly shades of gray, a few black, quite a few white ones.
The keycaps usually aren't, but the stems often are.
Are we talking about the F1-F4 being the same color as F5-F8 and F9-F12 being the same color as F1-F4?
Is this what you are asking about Rowdy?
The 1391401 and others in the "PC" (Generally the PC-AT and later the PS/2 systems) had the key caps (and even with the 1370477 with one-piece keys) with the Pearl/Pebble/Pearl/Pebble on the top row.
Arguably, with the RS-6000 systems, there were other minor, but very similar to the 1391401 legends.
Then the "terminal emulation' keyboards for those using PC's but still requiring special legends come to mind like the 1393464 for airlines that used the "Sabre" network is a good example of that.
Even to this day, you can still obtain special keyboards for medical and other companies that require them.
And of course, some may still be in use and will be in use for plenty of years to come.
If that wasn't what your question was about Rowdy, please move along to the next relevant message.
No, sorry, my bad terminology.
Someone mentioned above that the stems under the F/J/numpad5 were a different colour, which would help when replacing the top part of the keycaps.
I wondered whether this was common on Model M keyboards, as I didn't specially notice this on any of mine.
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Are F/J/5 keys usually s different colour?
I've cleaned a couple of mine, but didn't notice anything like that.
And I have a small collection of spare keys of all sorts of colours, mostly shades of gray, a few black, quite a few white ones.
The keycaps usually aren't, but the stems often are.
Are we talking about the F1-F4 being the same color as F5-F8 and F9-F12 being the same color as F1-F4?
Is this what you are asking about Rowdy?
The 1391401 and others in the "PC" (Generally the PC-AT and later the PS/2 systems) had the key caps (and even with the 1370477 with one-piece keys) with the Pearl/Pebble/Pearl/Pebble on the top row.
Arguably, with the RS-6000 systems, there were other minor, but very similar to the 1391401 legends.
Then the "terminal emulation' keyboards for those using PC's but still requiring special legends come to mind like the 1393464 for airlines that used the "Sabre" network is a good example of that.
Even to this day, you can still obtain special keyboards for medical and other companies that require them.
And of course, some may still be in use and will be in use for plenty of years to come.
If that wasn't what your question was about Rowdy, please move along to the next relevant message.
No, sorry, my bad terminology.
Someone mentioned above that the stems under the F/J/numpad5 were a different colour, which would help when replacing the top part of the keycaps.
I wondered whether this was common on Model M keyboards, as I didn't specially notice this on any of mine.
I figured. I had to edit anyway.