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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: N6NG on Tue, 17 October 2017, 23:50:57
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Hi all, just joined this forum with the purchase of my first Model M.
After months of watching eBay listings, I finally jumped on this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/202042156614) listing which fit both the bill and the budget.
However, after a good three hours of searching, I have only learned that it was originally shipped with this (https://www.argecy.com/2715) terminal, it may have a special din 5 protocol (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2m63nb/rmechanicalkeyboards_ask_any_question_get_an/cm1fx4x) (?), and has uncommon legends with green key stems (https://m.imgur.com/gallery/ikzXr). It is also not listed in Wikipedia's list of Model M variants.
So, does anyone have any information regarding this apparently elusive variant? Thanks!
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That's a nice silver label, but I couldn't see the plug. I know if probably looks like an AT plug, and I remember reading about these before.
More than likely you'll either need a converter like the soarers (if his will convert this--I'm not sure) or you'll need to replace the controller board with one from another M, which you could just then sell this board and pick up another M that's ready to plug and play.
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Looks like you and I are in the same boat; I bought the other one that guy was selling and was frustrated to see that the connector isn't the standard DIN-5 (the Model M wikipedia page incorrectly denoted this model as using an AT connection; I just submitted an edit to correct this)
I believe the cable referenced by SamirD is this one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Soarers-122-M122-Keyboard-Remapping-Macros-/282575692501?epid=1773591503&hash=item41cad2e2d5:g:A4sAAOSwY45USZdd).
I dropped a message to the eBay seller/creator to ask if this would work on this model since he's marketing it for the F122/M122 models, but they do appear to have the same connection.
Closeup of "DIN-5C"/"DIN-5 Terminal" Connector (https://i.imgur.com/fM6UkKQ.jpg)
So if that works, it seems like the easy/costly solution but I'm also looking around to see if there are any DIY mods I could use to make this work via USB or PS/2.
Let me know what you figure out. :thumb:
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My guess is that Orihalcon's cable converter will work, but I can't guarantee it.
The "AT" plug is commonly called the "180-degree" DIN and the 122 terminal-style plug is commonly called the "240-degree" DIN.
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Looks like you and I are in the same boat; I bought the other one that guy was selling and was frustrated to see that the connector isn't the standard DIN-5 (the Model M wikipedia page incorrectly denoted this model as using an AT connection; I just submitted an edit to correct this)
I believe the cable referenced by SamirD is this one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Soarers-122-M122-Keyboard-Remapping-Macros-/282575692501?epid=1773591503&hash=item41cad2e2d5:g:A4sAAOSwY45USZdd).
I dropped a message to the eBay seller/creator to ask if this would work on this model since he's marketing it for the F122/M122 models, but they do appear to have the same connection.
Closeup of "DIN-5C"/"DIN-5 Terminal" Connector (https://i.imgur.com/fM6UkKQ.jpg)
So if that works, it seems like the easy/costly solution but I'm also looking around to see if there are any DIY mods I could use to make this work via USB or PS/2.
Let me know what you figure out. :thumb:
Yep, that's the cable. I purchased a Lynx branded f122 with the cable installed on it and it works great. If you can find out more about the M and if it also worked on systems that took the f122, then I think you could eliminate almost all doubt.
I also believe the creator of that cable is a member on here, so he can save ebay fees and you can pay a little less. But I don't know if he's been active since I've been out of the loop for a year plus now.
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Orihalcon, he is still around : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=28268.0
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I noticed him posting a reply to me the other day--glad to see he still is! :cool:
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Yep, it's the 240 degree terminal plug. I actually created the wikipedia entry about a week ago based on some research and faulty information from the seller regarding the plug, thanks for fixing it bachamn!
Got mine today, a little cruddy but I wiped it down and blew the dust out and it looks brand new. I will mention, however, that when I picked it up a rivet fell out :-[
I think I may just take the route SamirD mentioned and replace the controller. From what I've gathered, Unicomp sells controllers for somewhere around 15$.
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I would keep that beauty bone stock and just use the adapter converter as you'll run across the need for one at some point in the keyboard hobby.
Hey, but I have an idea--I may have a proposal for you--I plan to get a Unicomp ps2 model M locally and will be willing to swap you keyboards as I don't have a terminal model M and already have the adapter. I'll have to double-check the adapter to make sure it is a 240 degree because my memory says it wasn't, but that doesn't sound right. Thoughts?
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Following up on this, I purchased Soarer's 240* > USB cable mentioned earlier in this thread and can confirm that it does work for this model. I still need to remap some of the terminal-specific keys using the software, but otherwise it's working great. As N6NG mentioned, mine also arrived with a number of broken rivets, so I decided to bolt mod it. I managed to find some screws that worked for this project (Brass #2 3/8" Flathead Phillips Wood screws) at Lowe's in the section with small baggies of screws. They did not have any #2 sized nuts, but as all 58 screws felt very snug (probably due to the wood threads vs. rounded machining threads) I felt confident closing it up without them.
Overall this guy cleaned up very nicely, and since most people I know could care less, I thought I'd share my hard work with some folks who could appreciate the endgame :)
Also figured it couldn't hurt to include some better photos of this specific model since it's apparently "new" to the fold.
Components after initial disassemble
(https://i.imgur.com/TXN3kQ0.jpg)
PCB detail:
(https://i.imgur.com/xKWmZL4.jpg)
Logo detail:
(https://i.imgur.com/GnHmJiZ.jpg)
Backplate post bolt-mod.
(https://i.imgur.com/yyp50H3.jpg)
And finally, portrait of a growing family.
(https://i.imgur.com/O4OHRDX.jpg)
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Super sweet! Glad you got it working like you want it and got it all cleaned up! Love the growing famiy!
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Looks great. I've never seen a Model M with green stems
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Well, I caved and dropped the 37$ on the converter for it. Can't wait for it to arrive so I can finally start using it!
I know I should probably bolt (or screw?) mod it, but as I'm not the most mechanically inclined person the thought makes me a little nervous.
Also, SamirD, I'm gonna have to turn down your offer! I'm quite pleased with my terminal board, especially now that I've got a converter in the mail ;)
I'd contribute some photos, but I can't figure out how to add a picture directly from my computer in here!
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I know I should probably bolt (or screw?) mod it, but as I'm not the most mechanically inclined person the thought makes me a little nervous.
Mostly it takes drilling a few dozen very small holes precisely in a vertical alignment. That takes a steady hand and/or a drill press.
The rest is pretty simple.
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Well, I caved and dropped the 37$ on the converter for it. Can't wait for it to arrive so I can finally start using it!
I know I should probably bolt (or screw?) mod it, but as I'm not the most mechanically inclined person the thought makes me a little nervous.
Also, SamirD, I'm gonna have to turn down your offer! I'm quite pleased with my terminal board, especially now that I've got a converter in the mail ;)
I'd contribute some photos, but I can't figure out how to add a picture directly from my computer in here!
I recommend doing a bolt mod over a screw mod. the bolt mod gives you better control over pressure, and is about the same in terms of difficulty. I wrote up a guide on it here.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62226.0
i found that it's pretty easy to get the holes straight enough and the design is very tolerant of having them off by a little so if it's not perfect then that's usually OK. I have been doing mine with a dremel rotary tool. One thing you might run into when you get it apart is that the plate might have a crack in it due to age. This is usually ok too, but that will depend (note that usually taking it apart doesn't cause it to crack, it's just age.)
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For what it's worth, the model I received did not have any green stems, maybe those were swapped out from another device?
I recommend doing a bolt mod over a screw mod. the bolt mod gives you better control over pressure, and is about the same in terms of difficulty. I wrote up a guide on it here.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62226.0
To clarify, the only difference here is the use of bolt/nuts instead of screws, right? I actually had the intention of using bolts and nuts but wasn't able to find any small enough. In fact I followed your guide and did find that using the dremel ball head (that I somehow already had in my toolbox) was a useful prep step, though it seems I spent as much if not more time on that step as I did drilling the actual holes.
Regarding your mentioning pressure, is it feasible to adjust the "feel" of the board by adjusting the tightness of the screws on the plate? It does feel very "tight" to me, meaning it feels like it takes a lot of force to actuate and I sometimes miss key presses when typing quickly, but I can't tell if this is normal and I'm still just used to Brown switches in my daily Filco, or if this is something that I could adjust.
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That guide is the most helpful one I've seen yet! The more pictures the better imo. As long as I don't have to worry too much about the steady hand part I think I'll be ok.
I also did not find any green stems on mine.
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That guide is the most helpful one I've seen yet! The more pictures the better imo. As long as I don't have to worry too much about the steady hand part I think I'll be ok.
I also did not find any green stems on mine.
Biggest tip I can give would be to start at a lower speed on your rotary tool when doing the divots and/or drilling part. I was struggling a bit at first with the bit sliding all around but after throttling down to about a 2-3 speed I had much less difficulty.
And I guess the green stems are a mystery, I'd just assumed the images you linked to were yours. Just noticed the 2015 timestamp ;)
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Thanks for the tip, and I am now really curious as to where those green stems came from! The post said it was a 1390670, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Well, I caved and dropped the 37$ on the converter for it. Can't wait for it to arrive so I can finally start using it!
I know I should probably bolt (or screw?) mod it, but as I'm not the most mechanically inclined person the thought makes me a little nervous.
Also, SamirD, I'm gonna have to turn down your offer! I'm quite pleased with my terminal board, especially now that I've got a converter in the mail ;)
I'd contribute some photos, but I can't figure out how to add a picture directly from my computer in here!
All good! Glad you've got the converter on the way. :thumb:
Try using it first before considering modding. I have an original 1988 M that came with our PS/2 30-286 and had several broken rivets in it from the first day (before I even knew what broken rivets were), and it works fine. It's only when most of the rivets fall out and the whole assembly starts to float that it becomes a problem. For the record, I haven't even opened any of my Ms and many of them were found in a box along side all sorts of other keyboards covered in layers of gunk. And they're still going as strong as the first day I pulled them out of that heap and plugged them in (believe it was the late 1990s).
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I know I should probably bolt (or screw?) mod it, but as I'm not the most mechanically inclined person the thought makes me a little nervous.
Mostly it takes drilling a few dozen very small holes precisely in a vertical alignment. That takes a steady hand and/or a drill press.
The rest is pretty simple.
Think of it as 'surgery' on your M. Then ask yourself, are you a surgeon? :))
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Well, I caved and dropped the 37$ on the converter for it. Can't wait for it to arrive so I can finally start using it!
I know I should probably bolt (or screw?) mod it, but as I'm not the most mechanically inclined person the thought makes me a little nervous.
Also, SamirD, I'm gonna have to turn down your offer! I'm quite pleased with my terminal board, especially now that I've got a converter in the mail ;)
I'd contribute some photos, but I can't figure out how to add a picture directly from my computer in here!
All good! Glad you've got the converter on the way. :thumb:
Try using it first before considering modding. I have an original 1988 M that came with our PS/2 30-286 and had several broken rivets in it from the first day (before I even knew what broken rivets were), and it works fine. It's only when most of the rivets fall out and the whole assembly starts to float that it becomes a problem. For the record, I haven't even opened any of my Ms and many of them were found in a box along side all sorts of other keyboards covered in layers of gunk. And they're still going as strong as the first day I pulled them out of that heap and plugged them in (believe it was the late 1990s).
I am currently typing on my converted and remapped terminal M!
I opened it up last night to remove the loose rivets which rattled around each time I picked the damn thing up (and annoyed me to no end) and discovered that only six total had fallen off, so I have elected not to bolt mod it for now.
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Well, I caved and dropped the 37$ on the converter for it. Can't wait for it to arrive so I can finally start using it!
I know I should probably bolt (or screw?) mod it, but as I'm not the most mechanically inclined person the thought makes me a little nervous.
Also, SamirD, I'm gonna have to turn down your offer! I'm quite pleased with my terminal board, especially now that I've got a converter in the mail ;)
I'd contribute some photos, but I can't figure out how to add a picture directly from my computer in here!
All good! Glad you've got the converter on the way. :thumb:
Try using it first before considering modding. I have an original 1988 M that came with our PS/2 30-286 and had several broken rivets in it from the first day (before I even knew what broken rivets were), and it works fine. It's only when most of the rivets fall out and the whole assembly starts to float that it becomes a problem. For the record, I haven't even opened any of my Ms and many of them were found in a box along side all sorts of other keyboards covered in layers of gunk. And they're still going as strong as the first day I pulled them out of that heap and plugged them in (believe it was the late 1990s).
I am currently typing on my converted and remapped terminal M!
I opened it up last night to remove the loose rivets which rattled around each time I picked the damn thing up (and annoyed me to no end) and discovered that only six total had fallen off, so I have elected not to bolt mod it for now.
Awesome! Welcome to buckling spring one-ness! :thumb:
I really wouldn't spend the time with a bolt-mod unless you have problems. Our original Model M that came with our IBm PS/2 30-286 had 'a bunch of pieces of plastic' fall out of it the one time we opened the case (we had no idea what they were at the time. That was the early years for that keyboard back in the early 1990s and it's still working fine today. I haven't bolt-modded (or done anything for that matter) to any of my M's beside plug them in and use them. They are the ultimate statement of a utility product done right--and therein lies the beauty in them, and in well-made keyboards in general. :cool:
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Always great to see a Model M brought back to life :)