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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: DillonHightower on Mon, 23 October 2017, 22:55:02
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So I recently plunged on Topre and Im not sure if the cap is for me. I Love Heavy clicky switches and figured I would give this a shot. I first bought a Novatouch and was disappointing.
After reading up on things, That is common for that board. SO I decided to spend a little more and buy a real force 87u 55g..
I think what bothers me the most is the fact that there is no number pad. But I had intentions of getting in the group buy here soon for the 87 key Real force for the metal case. I figured I would swap in the nova touch sliders and be on my way with a nice set of sa caps.
But .... But I am having a hard time liking this board as much as I want to. It is fun to type on But ... Well the sound is lacking to me < the videos I have watched and hear has the thock that is not as apparent on this. Not sure . Not sure if I expected something more on If it is just not for me.. Or if I got duped and someone swapped out domes and returned and I got a has been With swapped 45g domes. :'( :'(
Any input would be Appreciated.
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jchan's BKE heavy domes and some hipro caps might be the mod you're looking for
MX caps on topre is severely overrated and generally bad in both feel and looks
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you get minimal thock from RF because of the metal plate that the switches are mounted to
the HHKB gives you the thock, as it's all plastic
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If you wanted Thock, while RF has it, compared to the HHKB or 660c, it doesn't feel like it has much...
You will get people that prefer RF over the HHKB because they like that extra solidness from the plate..others will prefer the warmer thockier HHKB...
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jchan's BKE heavy domes and some hipro caps might be the mod you're looking for
MX caps on topre is severely overrated and generally bad in both feel and looks
Took your advice and got me a hipro board , going to mod it to work with the 87u and am currently waiting on the buy for bke heavy domes. So hopefully it wont be in vain . 500 bucks later should either make me love it or hate it.. Thanks for the advice fellas..
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I bought my first RF used, it is very slick, quiet and thocky. I next bought a new one, stock of course. Much less slick and quiet. Turns out the used one was lubed with dental bands. Maybe try those mods.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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FC660C has got the thock. I don't have an 87U but I do have the 23U Numpad and I would also consider that relatively thocky though less so than the leopold.
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This is exactly how I felt when I was Hyped by Geekhack into the 87u years back.
It had been an extreme disappointment..
I don't believe it's a bad keyboard, but it's no where near the MAGICAL xperience that geekhack devotees made it out to be..
The entire ordeal left a bad taste.. and I'll admit I've been somewhat Anti-Toper ever since..
But OVERALL , I've been objective in my opinion, it is what it is, not terribly different from the membrane keyboards we're already very used to.
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I've always let my hands be my guide when it comes to keyboards as opposed to my ears. To me, the sound is the 'form' of the 'function', so even if I don't love it, if I love the function, it's part of the total package.
I have one topre board and I really like the key feel. It's actually a japanese board so it's got a small spacebar and other keys to the sides of that for the additional characters. It does have a 'thockiness' that an IBM M doesn't, and that's nice in that it's different.
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I love the 87U so much I have three of them. It's one of the highest quality off-the-shelf keyboards you can buy, IMHO. If your main problem with the 87U is the lack of the numpad, well that's not the keyboard's fault.
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I would not go get the 104U. I mean I have several. I am using a RGB and it is indeed the Topre feel and thock. Do not know about those reviews. Anyways to MX clears or really any Cherry I feel it sucks. The issue is reliability. Solder joints and other things wil fail on Cherry based boards way before a Topre fails. I much prefer clears. Especially with much heavier springs installed. Yes, I am nuts. Well in that regard at least. Also there is no way the RGB is 45G uniform. Middle actuation I measure at 52g and bottom out at about 75g. It is actually much heavier than my 55g Topres which is why I can at least stand it. There are a lot of misconceptions and even incorrect info from Topre regarding the RGB but you might like it. I have no clue if you would but just guessing. Change to highest actuation point it is okay. On an HHKB only Japanese makes any sense.
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I prefer ergo clears to Topre as well, but I try to keep that opinion to myself, as people tend to find it blasphemous...
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I prefer ergo clears to Topre as well, but I try to keep that opinion to myself, as people tend to find it blasphemous...
Not as blasphemous as me preferring my Dell rubberdome to Topre.
People say Topre feels like Rubberdomes; no they don't. They feel worse.
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Underwhelmed by All of your posts tbh.
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In my opinion, Alps Orange/salmon/cream/etc > Alps Dampened/Matias quiet > Ergo Clear > Topre ~= Dell sk-8110 > cherry mx brown > scissor switches > Mushy Rubber domes
Theres lots of switches in the middle there, but I think it gets my point across on what I like in a switch.
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I must say, if you like loud clicky switches and a numpad, why on earth did you buy a tenkeyless rubber dome board? XD
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I must say, if you like loud clicky switches and a numpad, why on earth did you buy a tenkeyless rubber dome board? XD
Just wait until the thread asking why the left control from the hi-pro won't fit the 87U, talk about disappointment.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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I felt the same way when I got my first 87U. It's rather unexciting, which is compounded by all the hype about how incredible it is. It simply isn't the kind of the object that you're excited to use and can't put down.
Where it really shines, in my opinion, is in daily extended use. After using it for a while I started to really like how easy it was to live with.
It makes a very pleasant noise that won't get irritating (won't bother anyone else), looks inconspicuous (doesn't draw attention for theft or conversation), is buttery smooth, and the tactility is a nice hump rather than being a linear with a notch in the middle. It's easy to use it in any situation and for any purpose, for any amount of time.
HHKB is a more interesting Topre experience, and I'd say more fun to type on. Any keyboard enthusiast will have a collection of more interesting and desirable keyboards.
It's like having a collection of vehicles. You can have fun roadsters, motorcycles, classic cars, etc, that all have their time and place... but most people would have a hard time finding a day to complain about having to drive every day or long distances in an S-Class Mercedes. There will always be times when you're tired, not feeling great, have a headache, aren't interested in dealing with your loud roadster with a harsh ride and finicky gearbox, etc...
I think that's the best way of describing my experience with the 87U. It isn't for a lack of more interesting keyboards that the 87U is probably the one I would keep if I could only have one.
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I felt the same way when I got my first 87U. It's rather unexciting, which is compounded by all the hype about how incredible it is. It simply isn't the kind of the object that you're excited to use and can't put down.
Where it really shines, in my opinion, is in daily extended use. After using it for a while I started to really like how easy it was to live with.
It makes a very pleasant noise that won't get irritating (won't bother anyone else), looks inconspicuous (doesn't draw attention for theft or conversation), is buttery smooth, and the tactility is a nice hump rather than being a linear with a notch in the middle. It's easy to use it in any situation and for any purpose, for any amount of time.
HHKB is a more interesting Topre experience, and I'd say more fun to type on. Any keyboard enthusiast will have a collection of more interesting and desirable keyboards.
It's like having a collection of vehicles. You can have fun roadsters, motorcycles, classic cars, etc, that all have their time and place... but most people would have a hard time finding a day to complain about having to drive every day or long distances in an S-Class Mercedes. There will always be times when you're tired, not feeling great, have a headache, aren't interested in dealing with your loud roadster with a harsh ride and finicky gearbox, etc...
I think that's the best way of describing my experience with the 87U. It isn't for a lack of more interesting keyboards that the 87U is probably the one I would keep if I could only have one.
There is nothing harsh about it, and therefore nothing exciting about it, so I have to agree. I can totally understand how people could completely forget about the mechanics when using them and let the mind wonder and allow the keyboard to be an extension of that without anything jarring them out, but I find it boring and down right unsatisfying. I like the confidence that more tactile switches bring. I would like topre much more if they were more tactile, which actually leaves topre in a spot where other rubber domes simply out do them, but seriously, this is totally subjective.
It is good to try a lot of switch types so you can find what you like. What is good for one is not good for another.
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Topre is tactile but I just took it out. I actually like this RGB so It was the one I was going to take apart. As I said 45g is a joke, way heavier. I lubed it with PTFE grease so I do not have to do it again anytime soon. Then I put O-rings. Finally GMK caps. I like the light out the bottom better than through the fonts. It has an absurd amount of spill anyways. TBH as I have also said before the 104UB for instance does not seem so well built and the RGB is even worse but I kind of like it. Once again as I said the main reason is it is much less likely to fail at solder joints. I am tired of taking out the soldering station everyday as Cherry based boards age. You do not have to modify any Topre like I did and it will last probably at least 25 years just out of the box. Cherry based boards seem to start having solder issues at about 10 years. There are a lot more contacts there. Plus the capacitive is also much more reliable than leaf spring based. Someone will be using their Topre long after their friends Cherry board fails. There is no reason to debate this it is an engineering fact. Do not overcomplicate things for maximum longevity. As far as typing on it just get used to it. It is not like a shiny new phone. I never really thought of typing as fun and I do a lot of it. The idea to me is just to make at as less a burden as possible. You can even put a Topre in the dishwasher by it's very nature. just let it dry 5 days before reusing it. That is at your own risk, don't blame me :)
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I felt the same way when I got my first 87U. It's rather unexciting, which is compounded by all the hype about how incredible it is. It simply isn't the kind of the object that you're excited to use and can't put down.
Where it really shines, in my opinion, is in daily extended use. After using it for a while I started to really like how easy it was to live with.
It makes a very pleasant noise that won't get irritating (won't bother anyone else), looks inconspicuous (doesn't draw attention for theft or conversation), is buttery smooth, and the tactility is a nice hump rather than being a linear with a notch in the middle. It's easy to use it in any situation and for any purpose, for any amount of time.
HHKB is a more interesting Topre experience, and I'd say more fun to type on. Any keyboard enthusiast will have a collection of more interesting and desirable keyboards.
It's like having a collection of vehicles. You can have fun roadsters, motorcycles, classic cars, etc, that all have their time and place... but most people would have a hard time finding a day to complain about having to drive every day or long distances in an S-Class Mercedes. There will always be times when you're tired, not feeling great, have a headache, aren't interested in dealing with your loud roadster with a harsh ride and finicky gearbox, etc...
I think that's the best way of describing my experience with the 87U. It isn't for a lack of more interesting keyboards that the 87U is probably the one I would keep if I could only have one.
Thank you for the review and comparison to cars as that really puts the feel into another category I can truly understand. :thumb: (I have an S-class Merc as well as a roadster and other cars.)
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I Love Heavy clicky switches and figured I would give this a shot. I first bought a Novatouch and was disappointing.
Well, there you go.
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I must say, if you like loud clicky switches and a numpad, why on earth did you buy a tenkeyless rubber dome board? XD
Just wait until the thread asking why the left control from the hi-pro won't fit the 87U, talk about disappointment.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Yeah, I was just in the process of doing that exact mod. I had to use my dremel to grind down that little portion of the plate, and use a housing from an RF104U to use a standard slider. Speaking of, if anyone wants a slightly harvested RF104UW, hit me up. It seems like such a stupid choice on the part o Topre to make the control key so difficult to replace.
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I haven't been a huge fan of my RF87U, either; I've discovered I like Matias switches the most of the ones that I've tried. (While I've tried original Alps switches, too, those were a very long time ago--like, in the days the Apple Extended Keyboard II was actually still being sold!--and I don't remember them too well.)
I suspect I made a mistake by going with the "ergonomically weighted" RF87U, though, rather than an all-45g/55g version. It's expensive enough that I don't want to say "eh, I'll just buy another one and see how that goes," unless I give in and start selling the keyboards that I really don't use anymore...
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I haven't been a huge fan of my RF87U, either; I've discovered I like Matias switches the most of the ones that I've tried. (While I've tried original Alps switches, too, those were a very long time ago--like, in the days the Apple Extended Keyboard II was actually still being sold!--and I don't remember them too well.)
The Matias Quiet Click Switches are almost identical to the Cream ALPS in most AEKIIs.
IMHO much better than Topre, but opinions definitely differ on that topic.
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Dillon drops a ****post and never comes back for comment.
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Dillon drops a ****post and never comes back for comment.
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The Matias Quiet Click Switches are almost identical to the Cream ALPS in most AEKIIs.
IMHO much better than Topre, but opinions definitely differ on that topic.
I've noticed Topres seem to be the most divisive switches. Every time I go back to the RF87 my reaction is always, "Yep, this sure is a fine rubber dome keyboard." But I know lots of people really love 'em.
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jchan's BKE heavy domes and some hipro caps might be the mod you're looking for
MX caps on topre is severely overrated and generally bad in both feel and looks
What do those domes do exactly? Do they really improve the HHKB feel?
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Dillon drops a ****post and never comes back for comment.
This is a top tier post, and I genuinely mean that. :))
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Damn this post got a lot of flack. But I see where it's coming from. Nothing about Topre is particularly heavy nor clicky... Try the BKE redux heavy domes if you're so inclined, but I think you should stay away from Topre boards in the future.
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So I recently plunged on Topre and Im not sure if the cap is for me. I Love Heavy clicky switches and figured I would give this a shot. I first bought a Novatouch and was disappointing... After reading up on things, That is common for that board. SO I decided to spend a little more and buy a real force 87u 55g...
I think what bothers me the most is the fact that there is no number pad. But I had intentions of getting in the group buy here soon for the 87 key Real force for the metal case...
But .... But I am having a hard time liking this board as much as I want to. It is fun to type on But ... Well the sound is lacking to me < the videos I have watched and hear has the thock that is not as apparent on this...
Aw, dude, had I only known, I definitely would've recommended you start with a Type Heaven (http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2013/12/topre-type-heaven-full-review/). Not only are they, like, half the dough, but I've found them considerably more (pleasantly) thocky than most RealForces.
There's a certain amount of snobbery here about TH vs. RF. But keeb people are often highly influenced by how much stuff costs, and you can always spend more money on anything. The TH is a very fine board, IMHO, and it has the keypad and more pronounced thock it sounds like you're looking for.
Unlike RFs, I don't see used examples of THs for sale very often. I'm guessing it's because people consider them such a good value; that's certainly how I feel about mine. (If you spent twice as much on an RF, and didn't think it was worth it, you'd be that much more likely to want to sell it, right?)
Anyway, sorry your RF disappointed you. For what it's worth, I see MechanicalKeyboards.com has the white-case TH on sale for $129, with free shipping... That seems like a swell deal, and it's a more interesting color scheme than the uniformly muted gray ones you usually see.
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The Matias Quiet Click Switches are almost identical to the Cream ALPS in most AEKIIs.
IMHO much better than Topre, but opinions definitely differ on that topic.
I've noticed Topres seem to be the most divisive switches. Every time I go back to the RF87 my reaction is always, "Yep, this sure is a fine rubber dome keyboard." But I know lots of people really love 'em.
I just recently pulled mine out and had the same reaction. It's a satisfying switch for sure.
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So I recently plunged on Topre and Im not sure if the cap is for me. I Love Heavy clicky switches and figured I would give this a shot. I first bought a Novatouch and was disappointing... After reading up on things, That is common for that board. SO I decided to spend a little more and buy a real force 87u 55g...
I think what bothers me the most is the fact that there is no number pad. But I had intentions of getting in the group buy here soon for the 87 key Real force for the metal case...
But .... But I am having a hard time liking this board as much as I want to. It is fun to type on But ... Well the sound is lacking to me < the videos I have watched and hear has the thock that is not as apparent on this...
Aw, dude, had I only known, I definitely would've recommended you start with a Type Heaven (http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2013/12/topre-type-heaven-full-review/). Not only are they, like, half the dough, but I've found them considerably more (pleasantly) thocky than most RealForces.
There's a certain amount of snobbery here about TH vs. RF. But keeb people are often highly influenced by how much stuff costs, and you can always spend more money on anything. The TH is a very fine board, IMHO, and it has the keypad and more pronounced thock it sounds like you're looking for.
Unlike RFs, I don't see used examples of THs for sale very often. I'm guessing it's because people consider them such a good value; that's certainly how I feel about mine. (If you spent twice as much on an RF, and didn't think it was worth it, you'd be that much more likely to want to sell it, right?)
Anyway, sorry your RF disappointed you. For what it's worth, I see MechanicalKeyboards.com has the white-case TH on sale for $129, with free shipping... That seems like a swell deal, and it's a more interesting color scheme than the uniformly muted gray ones you usually see.
Thank you for mentioning this as I forgot about the Type Heaven. I've been eyeing a full size layout Topre for years now (the one I have is japanese--very cool, but sometimes not too practical), and this might fit the bill nicely. :thumb:
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Stuff doesn't have to cost twice as much to be good. I think it's a plus when we can resist being slaves to the suggestive power of strategic pricing.