Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 25 October 2017, 10:26:53
This is a result of the coolest damn hot swap sockets on Earth. Why didn't I go this route earlier?? I've been able to test a full board with 62g zeals, 67g zeals, cherrystotles, pale blue box Kailhs, purple Kailh pros, and newly tooled Cherry blacks. Each switch with SA R3, fully sculptured SA, Cherry, OEM, and DSA!! I'm about to find the perfect setup for me and it only cost me $50. What a steal.
I have more boards than I really care to count. But I own boards with MX reds, silent reds, blues, blacks, slivers, Gateron blacks, greens, Zealios 62 and 67, Kailh speed bronze, heavy pale blues, all of the pros. Those are the ones I should be able to test more extensively. I also own boards with Matias Click, Black Alps, Buckling Springs, and various rubber domes, including an old Quiet Click and RF 87u.
I have many keycap sets in OEM, DCS, SA R3 (ABS and PBT), SA sculptured, DSA, and Cherry profiles (GMK ABS and enjoyPBT). I'll have to wait until extras for XDA show up on keyclack and I have a set of cubic coming from Massdrop next month.
Post by: AMongoose on Wed, 25 October 2017, 10:30:05
But I would be interested in a more detailed explanation.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 25 October 2017, 10:32:55
Nothing?
But I would be interested in a more detailed explanation.
Updated the original post to explain how/what I've been testing.
Post by: redbanshee on Wed, 25 October 2017, 10:38:55
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 25 October 2017, 10:42:22
GMK has always been over rated, but they have a lot of specialty keys that OEM sets just dont have. If you are looking for feels try enjoypbt
I agree that the enjoyPBT sets feel better to me, but they still don't sound as good as even OEM. Maybe it's the taller profile that gives a sound profile that I enjoy more? I'll have to put some DSA on these 67g zeals and see how they compare to Cherry profile. But these cheap OEM caps are beating the pants off of Cherry at the moment.
Post by: AMongoose on Wed, 25 October 2017, 10:48:32
Nothing?
But I would be interested in a more detailed explanation.
Updated the original post to explain how/what I've been testing.
Yeah, I meant how "sound and feel so much better to me" isn't very descriptive.
Do you like the profile more? The texture of the caps is better? How so? And in what ways is the sound different.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 25 October 2017, 10:56:42
Nothing?
But I would be interested in a more detailed explanation.
Updated the original post to explain how/what I've been testing.
Yeah, I meant how "sound and feel so much better to me" isn't very descriptive.
Do you like the profile more? The texture of the caps is better? How so? And in what ways is the sound different.
I think with the feel it's more the profile than the texture. I have ABS and PBT keycaps and I don't really have a strong preference of one over the other. Maybe it's the deeper cylindrical nature of Cherry profile feels wrong to me. It's just not comfortable on my fingers.
With the sound... I believe cherry profile somehow deadens the sound of the switch and different switches lose their distinctive character underneath them. You also feel the switch less when it comes to tactility. I would think this is because they are thicker, but an ABS SA set on the same board allows me to feel the 67g zeals a lot better. They have a lot more pop under my fingers than they do with the GMK set.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of rhyme or reason to what I'm discovering, but this is what I've found so far. More to come.
Post by: raxander on Wed, 25 October 2017, 16:45:41
Post by: pr0ximity on Wed, 25 October 2017, 17:04:10
I've been able to test a full board with 62g zeals, 67g zeals, cherrystotles, pale blue box Kailhs, purple Kailh pros, and newly tooled Cherry blacks. Each switch with SA R3, fully sculptured SA, Cherry, OEM, and DSA!! I'm about to find the perfect setup for me and it only cost me $50. What a steal.
Some interesting math there :P
Post by: Parva Ovis on Wed, 25 October 2017, 17:08:36
Post by: ideus on Wed, 25 October 2017, 17:10:22
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 25 October 2017, 18:06:01
An opinion is just another empty declaration of feelings. Instead, I'd take respect for arguments based on facts and data. You can give up on everything you want, don't expect that GH fellows convince you otherwise.
I’ve updated the post title to reflect my empty opinions on this matter. I just wonder why the keycaps feel and sound lackluster. I will say that I like my coniferous set on mx blacks with a polycarbonate plate and wooden case.
Cherry profile seems to dampen the sound and tactility of switches as compared to most other profiles. I really like DSA but I think they also have a similar effect. I thing I must prefer caps with more height as it allows the switch to “sing” better.
I’ll be interested to try the silent blacks. I have silent reds but they’re scratchy as hell and nothing feels good on them, lol.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 25 October 2017, 18:07:29
I've been able to test a full board with 62g zeals, 67g zeals, cherrystotles, pale blue box Kailhs, purple Kailh pros, and newly tooled Cherry blacks. Each switch with SA R3, fully sculptured SA, Cherry, OEM, and DSA!! I'm about to find the perfect setup for me and it only cost me $50. What a steal.
Some interesting math there :P
Ha! True. Still nice to not have to spend money on new pcbs or time desoldering/soldering to try out a new setup
Post by: ideus on Wed, 25 October 2017, 18:13:56
An opinion is just another empty declaration of feelings. Instead, I'd take respect for arguments based on facts and data. You can give up on everything you want, don't expect that GH fellows convince you otherwise.
I’ve updated the post title to reflect my empty opinions on this matter. I just wonder why the keycaps feel and sound lackluster. I will say that I like my coniferous set on mx blacks with a polycarbonate plate and wooden case.
Cherry profile seems to dampen the sound and tactility of switches as compared to most other profiles. I really like DSA but I think they also have a similar effect. I thing I must prefer caps with more height as it allows the switch to “sing” better.
I’ll be interested to try the silent blacks. I have silent reds but they’re scratchy as hell and nothing feels good on them, lol.
We all should understand that the typing feeling is a multivariate, multifactorial response, it is mainly related with the case, the plate, if there is one installed, the switches and the key caps. Each one has its own features and ramifications that will add to the overall typing feeling . But, you may be surprise how different a keyboard will feel if it is on a plastic, wood, metal or glass surface, also, it would feel different if the surface is the desk or a tray. You, as most of us, should do your own experimentation to find what is the best setup for your needs and preferences. But, making a brand the culprit is likely unwarranted.
Post by: HotRoderX on Thu, 26 October 2017, 02:56:23
Post by: need on Thu, 26 October 2017, 04:39:56
However nothing really matches the truly classic look of GMK, eg. Beige/WoB/Dolch. I feel comfy whenever I see these colours, but they only look right on the GMK profile. OEM sets always look a bit off to me, mainly the font and colours that OEM uses.
So yeah it's mainly the look that makes me stick to GMK.
Post by: Sissy on Thu, 02 November 2017, 06:48:26
just use other caps for awhile and use GMK again once you have adjusted your ears and fingers to other caps.
Post by: OfTheWild on Wed, 08 November 2017, 20:00:59
I have a bunch of GMK sets, i like them. Definitely prefer the DCS profile but I do like a really well worn PBT set the best. Vintage doubleshots are also on my list of things to look out for.
Post by: HotRoderX on Sun, 12 November 2017, 02:43:45
Post by: _rubik on Sun, 12 November 2017, 08:21:29
Post by: OfTheWild on Tue, 14 November 2017, 19:17:22
I have noticed odd thing about GMK vs JTK... GMK shines way faster. I used my GMK set for less overall time then the JTK set.. both have black space bars. While the JTK set doesn't have any shine on it. The GMK set is already showing. That something people normally see are is that just unique to this situation.. at first I thought it might have been the space bars colors.. cause I think shine shows up more readily on black.. but both space bars are black.
ABS is a bit softer and does polish with use. Additionally I feel like theres a better feel to my older GMK caps than the brand new ones, almost like the age and get a little more dense? Its a weird idea i know and of course with all things keyboard its quite subjective but I really love the 'well worn' stuff. Like raw denim or guitars, keyboards get better with age... shine, patina, butterscotch yellowing... that stuff.
Post by: LevelSteam on Thu, 14 December 2017, 16:23:51
My only complaint is that they can bump into some types of LEDs, so I have to factor that in to my decisions regarding pre-built boards. I also really hate their scooped homing keys, but most sets come with barred anyway.
Maybe I'll feel differently when my kits are old and polished from use. We'll see.
Post by: jerue on Thu, 14 December 2017, 23:04:13
But if you are giving up GMK keysets it should only be because you realize that OG Cherry Doubleshots are better :P
Post by: OfTheWild on Fri, 15 December 2017, 19:43:09
...
I also really hate their scooped homing keys, but most sets come with barred anyway.
...
Ya know, I've been kind of on the fence about them lately. At first I was all excited but now after years of use on them I still really like the 'security blanket' of the bars when you're moving fast.
Post by: Giorgio on Sat, 23 December 2017, 01:30:20
...
I also really hate their scooped homing keys, but most sets come with barred anyway.
...
Ya know, I've been kind of on the fence about them lately. At first I was all excited but now after years of use on them I still really like the 'security blanket' of the bars when you're moving fast.
Nowadays 95% of GMK sets include keys with homing bars, but we had to fight to obtain them. The majority wants bars, but yet the purists didn't want to surrender. Why. I'm still asking why. If people are so resilient to change, just imagine how miserable and ****ty their lives must be.
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 23 December 2017, 10:43:47
DCS is the true way forward
Post by: gorauskas on Sat, 23 December 2017, 15:45:19
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 23 December 2017, 16:15:39
Does GMK make anything with a spherical top / touch area?
no
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Sun, 24 December 2017, 12:38:23
...
I also really hate their scooped homing keys, but most sets come with barred anyway.
...
Ya know, I've been kind of on the fence about them lately. At first I was all excited but now after years of use on them I still really like the 'security blanket' of the bars when you're moving fast.
Nowadays 95% of GMK sets include keys with homing bars, but we had to fight to obtain them. The majority wants bars, but yet the purists didn't want to surrender. Why. I'm still asking why. If people are so resilient to change, just imagine how miserable and ****ty their lives must be.
Why do their lives have to be ****ty and miserable? Responding to every comment pertaining to homing bars must take up a lot of your time, thus making your life ****ty and miserable :(
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 24 December 2017, 12:41:32
doesn't really matter to me or most people tbh
i don't really know anyone who wouldn't buy a set because it doesn't have their favorite homing key preference
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 24 December 2017, 14:54:18
most people i talk to seem to prefer scoops
doesn't really matter to me or most people tbh
i don't really know anyone who wouldn't buy a set because it doesn't have their favorite homing key preference
Me, except that you don't know me.
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 24 December 2017, 14:55:59
...
I also really hate their scooped homing keys, but most sets come with barred anyway.
...
Ya know, I've been kind of on the fence about them lately. At first I was all excited but now after years of use on them I still really like the 'security blanket' of the bars when you're moving fast.
Nowadays 95% of GMK sets include keys with homing bars, but we had to fight to obtain them. The majority wants bars, but yet the purists didn't want to surrender. Why. I'm still asking why. If people are so resilient to change, just imagine how miserable and ****ty their lives must be.
Why do their lives have to be ****ty and miserable? Responding to every comment pertaining to homing bars must take up a lot of your time, thus making your life ****ty and miserable :(
Their life is probably miserable because they don't want change, even if it comes at a cost of 1.5 USD per each set (three keys). And that is surely a clear indication of what happens in their life.
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 24 December 2017, 15:22:15
most people i talk to seem to prefer scoops
doesn't really matter to me or most people tbh
i don't really know anyone who wouldn't buy a set because it doesn't have their favorite homing key preference
Me, except that you don't know me.
i was responding specifically to this, it's just annoying to chop up posts from my phone
Quote
The majority wants bars, but yet the purists didn't want to surrender.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 24 December 2017, 17:24:26
Post by: txclack on Sun, 24 December 2017, 17:33:05
/shrug
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 24 December 2017, 18:52:54
I kinda wish GMK would increase the size of their tray, or make it easier to organize multiple mods kits into 1 tray.
/shrug
the trays were designed at a time when sets didn't have nearly the compat they do now, so i imagine that's a part of it
Post by: _rubik on Sun, 24 December 2017, 23:25:23
SA da best yo.
SAs have quite a bit of wobble IMO. Visually, they are stunning. I think what it comes down to is that there'll never be a perfect switch, profile, or layout.... but we can get damn close. Personally, GMK strikes a good balance between looks and utility.
But then again I'm also a homing bar simpleton :shrug:
Post by: chyros on Mon, 25 December 2017, 01:58:13
I really don't see what people's beef is with wobble Oo .SA da best yo.
SAs have quite a bit of wobble IMO. Visually, they are stunning. I think what it comes down to is that there'll never be a perfect switch, profile, or layout.... but we can get damn close. Personally, GMK strikes a good balance between looks and utility.
But then again I'm also a homing bar simpleton :shrug:
Besides SA makes switches sound fantastic :D .
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 25 December 2017, 02:02:27
I really don't see what people's beef is with wobble Oo .SA da best yo.
SAs have quite a bit of wobble IMO. Visually, they are stunning. I think what it comes down to is that there'll never be a perfect switch, profile, or layout.... but we can get damn close. Personally, GMK strikes a good balance between looks and utility.
But then again I'm also a homing bar simpleton :shrug:
Besides SA makes switches sound fantastic :D .
Wobble feels great in moderation. Just not excess. I will give you the second point though, they do sound fantastic. But then again, I think that is just a result of the mass of double shot pbt. I mean, look at Space Cadet. That thock is glorious.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 25 December 2017, 02:23:27
I think it's more the height than the mass tbh, and SA is ABS isn't it?I really don't see what people's beef is with wobble Oo .SA da best yo.
SAs have quite a bit of wobble IMO. Visually, they are stunning. I think what it comes down to is that there'll never be a perfect switch, profile, or layout.... but we can get damn close. Personally, GMK strikes a good balance between looks and utility.
But then again I'm also a homing bar simpleton :shrug:
Besides SA makes switches sound fantastic :D .
Wobble feels great in moderation. Just not excess. I will give you the second point though, they do sound fantastic. But then again, I think that is just a result of the mass of double shot pbt. I mean, look at Space Cadet. That thock is glorious.
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 25 December 2017, 02:34:27
I think it's more the height than the mass tbh, and SA is ABS isn't it?I really don't see what people's beef is with wobble Oo .SA da best yo.
SAs have quite a bit of wobble IMO. Visually, they are stunning. I think what it comes down to is that there'll never be a perfect switch, profile, or layout.... but we can get damn close. Personally, GMK strikes a good balance between looks and utility.
But then again I'm also a homing bar simpleton :shrug:
Besides SA makes switches sound fantastic.
Wobble feels great in moderation. Just not excess. I will give you the second point though, they do sound fantastic. But then again, I think that is just a result of the mass of double shot pbt. I mean, look at Space Cadet. That thock is glorious.
You’re right. SA is ABS, my mistake.
Wobble is more of a heigh issue to be sure. I’ve always thought that the wonderful sound though is largely in part due to the density and size of the cap. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong though.
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 25 December 2017, 03:09:06
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 25 December 2017, 10:17:08
Are SA on a novatouch any good? Do they wobble or bottom or harshly? I'm asking this because the silenced gmk enter of a novatouch makes a clack sound when bottoming out.
1) not all SA is ABS.
2) SA is a lot louder overall than GMK
The sound and wobble are twofold on a Novatouch.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 25 December 2017, 18:09:37
I've done extensive tests with keycaps versus sound. I've found several things:I think it's more the height than the mass tbh, and SA is ABS isn't it?I really don't see what people's beef is with wobble Oo .SA da best yo.
SAs have quite a bit of wobble IMO. Visually, they are stunning. I think what it comes down to is that there'll never be a perfect switch, profile, or layout.... but we can get damn close. Personally, GMK strikes a good balance between looks and utility.
But then again I'm also a homing bar simpleton :shrug:
Besides SA makes switches sound fantastic
Wobble feels great in moderation. Just not excess. I will give you the second point though, they do sound fantastic. But then again, I think that is just a result of the mass of double shot pbt. I mean, look at Space Cadet. That thock is glorious.
You’re right. SA is ABS, my mistake.
Wobble is more of a heigh issue to be sure. I’ve always thought that the wonderful sound though is largely in part due to the density and size of the cap. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong though.
1) ABS sounds deeper than PBT
2) Denser sounds less loud but not really more bassy
3) The deepest, fullest sound comes from thin, tall doubleshot ABS
It's remarkable how much influence keycap type can have on sound. It's also a wonderful thing if you know how to exploit it. Alps on thin OEM doubleshot ABS, oh my ^^ .
Post by: ideus on Mon, 25 December 2017, 22:47:24
I've done extensive tests with keycaps versus sound. I've found several things:I think it's more the height than the mass tbh, and SA is ABS isn't it?I really don't see what people's beef is with wobble Oo .SA da best yo.
SAs have quite a bit of wobble IMO. Visually, they are stunning. I think what it comes down to is that there'll never be a perfect switch, profile, or layout.... but we can get damn close. Personally, GMK strikes a good balance between looks and utility.
But then again I'm also a homing bar simpleton :shrug:
Besides SA makes switches sound fantastic
Wobble feels great in moderation. Just not excess. I will give you the second point though, they do sound fantastic. But then again, I think that is just a result of the mass of double shot pbt. I mean, look at Space Cadet. That thock is glorious.
You’re right. SA is ABS, my mistake.
Wobble is more of a heigh issue to be sure. I’ve always thought that the wonderful sound though is largely in part due to the density and size of the cap. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong though.
1) ABS sounds deeper than PBT
2) Denser sounds less loud but not really more bassy
3) The deepest, fullest sound comes from thin, tall doubleshot ABS
It's remarkable how much influence keycap type can have on sound. It's also a wonderful thing if you know how to exploit it. Alps on thin OEM doubleshot ABS, oh my ^^ .
I can confirm these statements with my own experience.
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 25 December 2017, 22:49:12