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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: twin_rotor on Mon, 30 October 2017, 15:35:02

Title: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Mon, 30 October 2017, 15:35:02
Hello all! Nice to find a forum like this. I have a few mechanical boards I have dedicated to machines they came with, but have been consigned to a notebook for several years. Recently, I built a desktop and decided to dig and find a decent mechanical to go with my new found desk space.

In my pile, I came across a board that strangely looked familure; An Acer KB-101a! Score! Then I noticed it was branded Multitech, both on the sticker where Acer should be, and the bottom sticker. Another variation is this board uses a three position slide switch for AT/XT modes, instead of dip switches. Other than that, the outer molds, PCB, blue Alps, all identical to an Acer KB-101a.

A few hours of cleaning and the board comes out pretty decent. Caps are not worn at all, but yellowed horribly, along with the top plate. All switches seem fine. I hook it to a Pentium 100 based AT computer I have setup, no problems. Every key works like a charm, responsive, everything I want in a board.

Now the fun... I find one of 15 AT to PS/2 adapters and plug it into my "new" desktop. Its just a humble H55 chipset with a 3GHz i3 (Intel DH55TC). Fortunately, it has a PS/2 port! So I shut down the computer, check BIOS to make sure the PS/2 port is on (only option regarding said port), save and reboot. Shutdown again, removed USB keyboard, plug in the KB101 and turn the machine on.

Power light comes on the board and I get into BIOS, no problem. Keyboard seems to function, but I get no cap or num lock LED. Just the power LED. I exit BIOS, it takes a bit longer than normal to POST, then boots to Windows 10. No keyboard. No a single key works, but the power LED stays lit. I mess around a bit more to no avail.

PS/2 adapter?  Tired 5 and consigned that wasn't an issue. Hooked the board up to an older board with dedicated PS/2, works like a charm.... My son has an H55 based motherbaord with a dedicated PS/2 port, keyboard works perfectly on his machine....

So, I decide to try an cheapo active PS/2 to USB adapter. I ordered a cheap  "y" adapter that had really good reviews. M boards worked fine on it, so why shouldn't mine? No dice. Any other PS/2 or AT board works with the USB adapter except the KB101..

What am I missing? Works fine when its a native PS/2 board or AT. The USB adapter I bought works with other boards, no problem. As far as my motherboard, its actually a "split" PS/2 port. It will work with mice or keyboards. I saw no options to keep it in keyboard or mouse mode, but I could have missed something.

I've only spent $6, and I'm willing to build/buy a Teensy controller, but I'm just not quite convinced I have not missed something terribly obvious.

Thanks ahead of time for any ideas. I would really like to use this board. Those blues really do live up to their reputation, and this keyboard is really in good shape. Just needs a good paint job.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (KeyTronic) Connection Problems
Post by: chyros on Mon, 30 October 2017, 16:39:43
Really, a Key Tronic KB-101A style keyboard? Man, that's an insult to good keyboards if I ever heard it xD .
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (KeyTronic) Connection Problems
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 30 October 2017, 16:58:48
Astonishing score for your first mechanical keyboard. It took me literally 2+ years to get a blue Alps keyboard.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (KeyTronic) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Mon, 30 October 2017, 18:17:02
Astonishing score for your first mechanical keyboard. It took me literally 2+ years to get a blue Alps keyboard.


Not my first. I have 3 Model Ms (all with 5061s and a couple PS/2 "servers"). I also have some Apple mechanical.goodness. Two of my newer Ms have dissappeared or I'd sell this clone and buy something eles. As it is, it's gonna sit in front of one of my older computers with AT connection if I cant figure this out.

Eidt: Now that I think about it a bit more, I bought this board new at a small shop.some time in the late 80s. It replaced a 286 machines water destroyed keyboard. So it's not going anywhere..

Really, a Key Tronic KB-101A style keyboard? Man, that's an insult to good keyboards if I ever heard it xD .

I don't think Keytronic had anything other to do with it besides the decals. Then again, I'm not real sure who exactly made the Acer 101. And thanks for the videos you have done!. I actually watched your Acer video as comparison when I first re-stumbled across this Keytronic


Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (KeyTronic) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Mon, 30 October 2017, 18:46:13
Really, a Key Tronic KB-101A style keyboard? Man, that's an insult to good keyboards if I ever heard it xD .

I went back and looked at your video and yours also has the slider. Mine has old XT/AT/new XT, instead of 1/2/3. It was another teardown video I watched with the micro switch version.

P.s. anything beats typing on glass. I hate this phone sometimes....Sorry for errors
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (KeyTronic) Connection Problems
Post by: Tactile on Mon, 30 October 2017, 18:55:08
It's the long way around the barn but if you assemble one of these (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0) on a breadboard you can then use HID Listen to help diagnose. And, just as an added bonus, It's a great PS/2 to USB converter, as well.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (KeyTronic) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Mon, 30 October 2017, 19:01:31
It's the long way around the barn but if you assemble one of these (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0) on a breadboard you can then use HID Listen to help diagnose. And, just as an added bonus, It's a great PS/2 to USB converter, as well.

This is my next step if an "ah-ha" moment doesn't ever come. I'm just confused why it works on the majority of PS/2 busses, but not others.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (KeyTronic) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Tue, 31 October 2017, 14:42:11
So strange.  What position do you have the switch in and what type of connector does it have?  (I'm assuming it's an AT din?).
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (KeyTronic) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Tue, 31 October 2017, 15:22:46
So strange.  What position do you have the switch in and what type of connector does it have?  (I'm assuming it's an AT din?).

AT, AT connector. It works fine in XT on a XT machine as well.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Tue, 31 October 2017, 17:06:50
Well, I'm an idiot. I started this thread while at home, came to the shop and found that this Keytronic is actually a Multitech.. OOPS.. Still an Acer clone, but not a Keytronic... Shows how aggravated I've been over this whole deal.

Attached some pics:
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 01 November 2017, 21:21:43
That's a beauty!

Just for kicks did you try setting the switch to new xt and see what happens?
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Thu, 02 November 2017, 06:53:57
That's a beauty!

Just for kicks did you try setting the switch to new xt and see what happens?

Thanks! I was lucky to stumble back across it after so many years. The machine I bought it for is long gone, but Im not in the habit of discarding anything. That particular 286 was used as a trade towards my first DX/4 machine, if I remember correctly. Seems like yesterday, but that was 1993-94...

I actually did try the switch in all positions on the USB adapter and the PS/2 port (DH55TC) it will not work with. No dice. Switch works like it should with my 5160 in XT mode.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Thu, 02 November 2017, 08:29:20
I'm fully stumped...you've tried everything that I could think of--computer, adapters, converters.

What type of AT-ps2 and ps2-usb converters are you using?  The block type or cable type (for AT-ps2)?  ps2-mouse to usb cable type for the ps2-usb?
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Thu, 02 November 2017, 09:04:19
I ended up with a Monoprice Y adapter (active) to try the USB. I know, I know... People have all kinds of problems with Y adapters, but sooo many keyboards are reported to work with this adapter. I'm waiting on a "blue block" adapter everyone seems to like, but I don't think I'll even open the box; I've already got a shopping cart full of parts for a Teensy build. And yes, Monoprice is cheap, but I've had good luck with their stuff, mostly passive components. This adapter does not work with any USB port on any machine with the KB101A, but works fine with a model M (early and late), as well as any other PS/2 keyboard you can throw at it.

My 180 degree 5 pin DIN to PS/2 adapters are anywhere from 20 years old, to NOS 20 year old pieces lol. I literally have 20-30 of them. Cable type, dongle type... Tried many. They all work with the KB101 on any PS/2 ported machine, except my DH55TC. I haven't tried a KVM switch, but I really don't see any benefit, as I don't have any that are active.

The biggest reason I started this thread is because of the non-function of the PS/2 port I want to use. I'd rather not use an active adapter at all. It works fine with another H55 chipset, albeit a EVGA P55 that I tried that has a dedicated PS/2 port. And of course, it works with any other PS/2 motherboard I've tried as well......

I messed around a bit more with the USB adapter and the KB101 really doesn't like it. I wasn't sure if I had tried the XT switch with the adapter. It acts the same in any position with the USB adapter:


All three lights will "flicker", no matter how many keys you push. You can hear a few keys do register from the Windows warning sound.  :mad: Then the good 'ole ALT + F4 kills the bus completely, and does not stop acting like its getting 1000 key presses a second until you remove the USB adapter. I also tried it with a word processor and had no input. So I'm not really sure why the Windows sound is chiming.

Here is the motherboard manuals, if anyone wants to try and find something I might have missed:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000023741/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000023741/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html)

Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Thu, 02 November 2017, 11:59:52
Besides the monoprice adapter, have you tried any others?  I know you don't want to use an active adapter, but I think that's a good place to start as it also could be something with the system itself (BIOS or whatnot).
I had to get a ps2-usb adapter in a pinch recently and was impressed by the startech USBPS2PC.  It's not the cheapest, but should be quite readily available as a lot of local computer shops stock startech stuff.  I'd get this and try it.  If the keyboard works on this, then we can move forward to see what's going on with the ps2 port.

Ahhh...wait!  You said this port is a combo ps2 and mouse port, right?  Bingo!  That's the issue.  I've actually seen funky things like this before when I plugged my M15 (M with trackpoint) into a belkin ps2-usb converter and the keyboard would not work with both the keyboard and mouse plugged into the converter, but will both work with only the keyboard connected--weird!

I'm almost completely certain now that as far as the ps2-usb conveter route, something funky like this is going on because the converter is sending mouse along with the keyboard on the keyboard connector as the motherboard manual says kb or mouse--not both.  So for some reason, the system is not picking up that it's a keyboard that's connected vs a mouse becauae it's probably trying to talk mouse to your keyboard.

This still doesn't explain why a simple passive AT to ps2 connector won't work though.  But something tells me again that it has to do more with the keyboard controller somehow not realizing it's a keyboard and maybe also not supplying enough power to it.

After doing more reading and researching this, it looks to be a design that's more prevalent in Asus motherboards and doesn't seem to have a real solution.

I think the best way to go for this keyboard to work on that system would be to use the startech ps2-usb adapter.  Aside from some crazy things like trying to give the ps2 port more power somehow.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Thu, 02 November 2017, 12:10:29
The Startech is the "blue box" I have coming.

I've came to a similar conclusion with the PS/2 port, but wasn't sure if there was a work around.

The EVGA P55 I mentioned, plus the other computers I've tested were dedicated to keyboard only.

I still use a USB mouse, so I haven't tried using a PS/2 mouse with the converter. I did unplug all peripherals during test.

I'm curious if the DH55TC PS/2 port is USB based, hence the conflicts like you had. Hmmm. I'm gonna kill the USB mobo driver and see if the USB will assume primary. Be nice if there was an option in BIOS!
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Thu, 02 November 2017, 14:17:51
Tried killing the PS/2 ports via bios, no change. Tried killing keyboard drivers in Win 10, no dice.

So I'll wait for the Saxony, but you recommend the Startech USBPS2PC. If it works, I'll keep it. If that one doesn't work, I'll just build a Teensy. All these adapters have reviews and reviews that it works on keyboards, however, the Saxony claims to be BIOS compatible (I havn't looked at the Startech closely). Man this is a PITA

I will update this thread. I still think there is a way to trigger that PS/2 "bus" into thinking its a keyboard, instead of a mouse. Time to start digging into keyboard design :)
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Thu, 02 November 2017, 14:27:29
The PS/2 port is not USB based, according to the block diagram.

 [attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Thu, 02 November 2017, 16:33:39
No IRQ or LPC entries in the Device Manager for a PS/2 port! I even disabled all other (serial/parallel) LPC driven components.

Shouldn't the PS/2 port be on IRQ2?

Then again, its not listed under its controller.. So I dunno.. About to get out a BFH
 
Sorry this is getting so long winded.

EDIT: I thought I had done this already (might have), but no other newer PS/2 keyboards work in the DH55TC motherboard PS/2 port :( Time for a teensy.

Thanks to everyone who tried to help me. If anyone has an idea why this port would "dissapear" please let me know. IT DOES WORK IN BIOS!!!!!
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Fri, 03 November 2017, 00:18:47
I think you're onto something with triggering the port into thinking it's a keyboard port, but you're going to need the documentation for that legacy io controller.  The only other thing I ran into was a $100 device that would actually allow two ps/2 keyboards to be plugged into one port and used in succession.  It directly emulates a keyboard, so the keyboard itself won't be reporting to the controller, but this 'splitter' device instead.

I wonder if calling the motherboard company for support would help?  Or a bios/firmware update?
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Fri, 03 November 2017, 00:31:58
I think you're onto something with triggering the port into thinking it's a keyboard port, but you're going to need the documentation for that legacy io controller.  The only other thing I ran into was a $100 device that would actually allow two ps/2 keyboards to be plugged into one port and used in succession.  It directly emulates a keyboard, so the keyboard itself won't be reporting to the controller, but this 'splitter' device instead.

I wonder if calling the motherboard company for support would help?  Or a bios/firmware update?

It's an Intel.board, so I might get some help. BIOS is up to date and probally legacy by now.  I've actually thought about going to older versions. I'll have to read all the change logs.

It's an H55 chipset, so I should be able to dig up info and see if that "legacy controller" is just that. It shows up in Device Manager as such, however any mention of PS/2 is non-existent.

The serial and parallel ports on the legacy controller show up on the correct IRQ. That's it on that bus.

PS/2 has 5V, according to the Power LED on the keyboard. I just have not had the time to actually meter it. I tried one PS/2 keyboard before I left and it did not work.

I do have a sister motherboard. It's set up and ready to go, so I'm going to pull it down and see what it thinks of the keyboard. That will at least show either component failure or just incompatibility.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Fri, 03 November 2017, 10:12:22
ps/2 components generally never showed up anywhere since the irq was so low.  You never see irq 1 listed either.

Wait, so you did try a pure ps2 keyboard with the motherboard and it didn't work?  If you tried one like that, that did work on another system, then you may have a defective port.

I would try downgrading the bios--sometimes these problems are actually introduced in later versions and other problems are fixed.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Fri, 03 November 2017, 10:23:35
Yes, I grabbed a board and tried, but I need to try another. It could have been bad. I have a few still NIB. I'll try one of those.

I was just exploring and found that there were no ports listed. Other examples showed a PS/2 port Instead of the HID description. As far as the IRQ, it could be anything, depending how this "low pin count" bus works. Its been around since 1998, designed specifically to take low level task like keyboard, serial, parallel,  ect and interface with the southbridge, in a super small package. I ran out of time researching. I'm not at the shop today either, so I'll update as soon as I have a chance to mess with it.

I did order a Teensy. More out of frustration than anything, but I kinda wanted to do it anyway.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Fri, 03 November 2017, 10:34:45
I have a sense that we'll figure out what's going on with this, even if there isn't a solution.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Fri, 03 November 2017, 10:51:29
Thanks for helping!

I'm not going to quit looking for a solution, just out off spite :)

I'll confirm this PS/2 issue by comparing it with the other identical board I have. If it does the same thing, then I'm gonna really be curious on how that LPC bus works.

I plan on setting up a current test as well, both in line and the keyboard on a separate 5V souce. I had thoughts that maybe a transitor or one of its pull down resistors might be getting silly. The PCB looked great on the keyboard, but it does have age on it.

If my PS/2 port is dead, ok. But its still generating 5V, and that's the most common fail point. However, this isn't a common PS/2 bus.....
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Fri, 03 November 2017, 12:55:11
....

EDIT: I thought I had done this already (might have), but no other newer PS/2 keyboards work in the DH55TC motherboard PS/2 port :( Time for a teensy.

......

Apparently I had a brain fart and completely forgot I  had already tested different PS/2 boards. And I do have a go-to PS/2 boards for older machines I work on. :( No excuse, but I do work on 4-5 projects a day. This is just small free time I'm using to try and get away from my dome keyboard!

I'll most likely swing by the shop and at least see if the other DH55TC board I have does the same crap or works.. If it works, I'll probably retire the one I'm using and use an 1151 mobo I have, which has no PS/2 or LPC ports. I'm not worried about power house performance, I just don't have a bunch of time to be swapping components around on my own junk.. Be a nice step-up to a 2 series i5, but I really have no need for it. My machine is mostly used for research and boredom. I also do quite a bit of correspondence, hence this whole thread lol. I'm surprised nobody has said "use one of your IBM boards".. I'm a historian at heart, so I can't bring myself to it. Not when I have the machine it came with from Scotland.

Also avoiding newer equipment, just because its a weird market. So many choices, so many opinions. I know buckling spring, blue Alps (I probably spent way more time in front of the keyboard of discussion than I remember), I did actually have a "real" Acer KB-101A given to me in the late 90's I used till liquid damage, had quite a run on Dell 101, then others that were also damaged and most were tossed. Now I wish I still have them all! Point being, I know what I like and I know where to find it. New boards say this, other guys review them, but you really never know till you put a few thousand words down.

Right now, the Das Keyboard with the multimedia controls is my favorite design. Especially without lettering. I really like the volume nob. My time is spent with headphones quite a bit, and those are features I'd miss in my current dome board. That whole free + $20 vs $169 kills me though. And I'm sure there are better boards cheaper, but I'm a new fish with newer boards.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 04 November 2017, 08:19:09
Apparently I had a brain fart and completely forgot I  had already tested different PS/2 boards. And I do have a go-to PS/2 boards for older machines I work on. :( No excuse, but I do work on 4-5 projects a day. This is just small free time I'm using to try and get away from my dome keyboard!

I'll most likely swing by the shop and at least see if the other DH55TC board I have does the same crap or works.. If it works, I'll probably retire the one I'm using and use an 1151 mobo I have, which has no PS/2 or LPC ports. I'm not worried about power house performance, I just don't have a bunch of time to be swapping components around on my own junk.. Be a nice step-up to a 2 series i5, but I really have no need for it. My machine is mostly used for research and boredom. I also do quite a bit of correspondence, hence this whole thread lol. I'm surprised nobody has said "use one of your IBM boards".. I'm a historian at heart, so I can't bring myself to it. Not when I have the machine it came with from Scotland.

Also avoiding newer equipment, just because its a weird market. So many choices, so many opinions. I know buckling spring, blue Alps (I probably spent way more time in front of the keyboard of discussion than I remember), I did actually have a "real" Acer KB-101A given to me in the late 90's I used till liquid damage, had quite a run on Dell 101, then others that were also damaged and most were tossed. Now I wish I still have them all! Point being, I know what I like and I know where to find it. New boards say this, other guys review them, but you really never know till you put a few thousand words down.

Right now, the Das Keyboard with the multimedia controls is my favorite design. Especially without lettering. I really like the volume nob. My time is spent with headphones quite a bit, and those are features I'd miss in my current dome board. That whole free + $20 vs $169 kills me though. And I'm sure there are better boards cheaper, but I'm a new fish with newer boards.
No worries!  I'm just one of those that doesn't give up easily--especially when it comes to an oddball problem like this that you can learn from.

I feel you on the lack of time--I have a lot of upgrades to install on legacy equipment I have.  I'm like you in that sense--I like working on what I know I know how to work on.  The newer stuff is a bit out there if you come from the 'old school' era of PCs--12GB of ram on a video card?!?  That's over an order of magnitude difference from the 8MB cards that were enough back in the day.  And all this despite the fact that general computing tasks, like correspondence, hasn't really changed since PCs came about.

There's a lot of systems I know that were tossed in our various businesses that I wish I could have saved, but alas they're gone now. :(  But I will help rescue one that I find if I can--too much of the older stuff is now ending up in recycling when it could be reused (which is the first step in recycling!).

I'm glad to hear that about the Das.  I have the opportunity to pick one up locally at a decent price, but have never tried one before.  Sounds like I will like it.  I like trying out all the new boards even though I'm probably married to the M...hmmm...I guess that makes all the other boards mistresses.  :eek:

Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Sat, 04 November 2017, 09:06:24
Go for the Das if you like it. I haven't really had experience with them since about 2008. Right around when they really started pushing those guys on Newegg, ect.

A friend of mine can destroy most keyboards by looking at it. Big heavy hands and a gamer. Took him about 6 months to destroy the chicklets on his Alienware, so I told him to check out the Das. At that time, they still offered MX blacks. It was also $89, compared to the $139 base board they sell now. Nice key action and the build quality was good. Who knows now.

I'd prefer a clicky MX myself, but he had other people to consider. I've had Cherry boards in the past. Actual Cherry labled. They were always great boards, but I don't like the browns or blacks at all. They feel like an early 90s dome board to me.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 04 November 2017, 10:50:18
I first looked at Das when I was looking for a bluetooth addon for an M.  But that was when they were pretty new as well.  Today, they're much more available and I wonder if the quality has changed (or improved).

I like the cherry blue feel pretty decently, but different boards definitely have a different feel--my Logitech is much different than my TVS, and those are the only two blue boards I have.  I too am not a fan of linears or tactle feel boards, because you're right in that a good rubberdome can feel almost the same.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Tue, 07 November 2017, 08:41:17
:shakes head:

The exact sister mobo I have, so 2 x DH55TC, does not accept any PS/2 keyboard either. Now I am going to contact Intel, not expecting any real answeres. I bet I get the "not certified for Windows 10" excuse, even though its not working in BIOS.

Well, I say it doesn't work. The arrow key work and DEL key. F keys do not work, no LEDs will light (besides power)

Now I'm waiting. The "blue box" I think was stolen out of our box. It was Prime, and it showed delivered. Yea.

The teensy is on a slow boat from China, along with the other components I ordered. Who knows when they will show up. I'm tempted to use Primes free one day shipping and get a real Teensy and wire it. I have a whole bunch of pig-tailed PS/2 connectors to whip one up. I'm not excited about the micro USB connector though. But I have project boxes with panel mount USB B to micro on the way..

Frustration level is at a max... I've never had a problem this silly kick my butt like this one has.

EDIT: Heres a pic of these adapaters I have that were for some special application. I have about 100 of them, if anyone wants any. They're $2.29 at Digi, but I'll make a deal on them. Its a six pin header with shared ground/VCC.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: Tactile on Tue, 07 November 2017, 10:42:05
I know you're dealing with frustration and want to get this setup working but, for next time, I prefer to support the folks who make the Teensy by buying direct from them (https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy.html).
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Tue, 07 November 2017, 11:09:43
I know you're dealing with frustration and want to get this setup working but, for next time, I prefer to support the folks who make the Teensy by buying direct from them (https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy.html).

The one I ordered 10 mins after I posted today is from PJRC :)

I was hoping to avoid this method completely,  and I'd just have a Teensy to play around with. Also, I made a large order for passive components, so I was taking a gamble with the Chinese Teensy.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Tue, 07 November 2017, 20:33:54
That's interesting that the arrow keys and delete are working.  Are they working on the numpad or just the dedicated keys?  You may have to try toggling the numlock.  This keeps getting weirder...
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Tue, 07 November 2017, 22:33:14
That's interesting that the arrow keys and delete are working.  Are they working on the numpad or just the dedicated keys?  You may have to try toggling the numlock.  This keeps getting weirder...

Working keys on both DH55TC:

On post, F2 enters BIOS, F10 triggers boot menu. Nothing works if F10 is pressed.

Only the arrow keys, Enter, and ESC work. No LEDs but Power. I tried all the keys that are used in BIOS, so more might work.

No F keys work in BIOS, which you can use for quick exits. The plus and minus key do not work. No numbers. So I can select anything, change options that have menus, but can't change the time. It's bizarre.  Especially when it works fine with every other PS/2 port computer I've plugged it into....

This thread is more about Intel's old ass I/O logic block. I need to look at my son's EVGA P55, which is then same chipset as mine. See how it handles It's PS/2 keyboard only port.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Tue, 07 November 2017, 23:03:01
Well EVGA let me down a bit. Thier documentation at the time my son's mobo was built is poor. I did find the chipset diagram from Intel. I/O functions are built into it's southbridge.  It's also not a H55 like mine; it's a P55. Yet EVGA list It under H55 mobos they made.

I haven't found a whole lot of recent info on Intel's LPC bus. Buts it's only going to be corrected through a BIOS mod I'm afraid. We'll know soon enough.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 08 November 2017, 00:32:48
Did you get in touch with Intel at all?  I think you basically have found a bug in their port that needs to be addressed as I'm sure the ps2 port is starting to end its lifetime now that usb is the new standard.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Wed, 08 November 2017, 07:16:58
No, I havnt. Support ended 2014 for this board and Intel's legacy support is non-existent. The only option I have is to try their forums. I've already scoured those for information since this became an issue I will start a thread for the heck of it. I wish we were part of the Intel Technology Provider program, or knew someone that was. That's the only other option.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 08 November 2017, 07:21:02
I contacted Intel for support on what looked to be a counterfeit NIC and they were extremely good even for a product that should have been considered 'legacy' since no one has 64-bit pci slots anymore.  I'd try their support system like I did--even though it was basically emailing back and forth, it was surprisingly some of the best support I've ever had via email.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Wed, 08 November 2017, 07:26:08
Ok, I'll give it a try. I'm use to these guys *cough*Microsoft*cough*Apple that won't give you the time of day. Even as a Microsoft Partner, it's very difficult to get things done at times. Mostly due to hiring of poor English speaking call centers. But I digress. Makes me like Intel that much more hearing of your experience
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 08 November 2017, 07:48:34
Ok, I'll give it a try. I'm use to these guys *cough*Microsoft*cough*Apple that won't give you the time of day. Even as a Microsoft Partner, it's very difficult to get things done at times. Mostly due to hiring of poor English speaking call centers. But I digress. Makes me like Intel that much more hearing of your experience
That's what I was expecting as well, and considering my wife builds call centers for large corporations, I would have thought that MS agents would be at least decent--but just one experience of trying to get a license of xp activated via phone proved those are some horrible Indians on the other end (at least in my experience)--and that's a really bad review considering I'm Indian.  :eek:  The guy was swearing at me in Hindi.  :eek:

Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Wed, 08 November 2017, 08:40:42
My wife once worked at a center. I wouldn't do it. Getting called and screamed at everyday, in any language. :) I have a hard time with fast speakers, not so much accents.

I created a thread, as well as emailed the support. Follow along if you'd like!

https://communities.intel.com/message/507010#507010 (https://communities.intel.com/message/507010#507010)
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 08 November 2017, 13:24:51
My wife once worked at a center. I wouldn't do it. Getting called and screamed at everyday, in any language. :) I have a hard time with fast speakers, not so much accents.

I created a thread, as well as emailed the support. Follow along if you'd like!

https://communities.intel.com/message/507010#507010 (https://communities.intel.com/message/507010#507010)
I actually worked at LG's national call center for a bit a few years before I met my wife.  I didn't have too many people that were nasty because I didn't start talking to them until they were done spouting.  I actually was one of the best agents they ever had.

Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Thu, 09 November 2017, 11:54:49
....  I actually was one of the best agents they ever had.

I do not doubt that. This thread proves it :) Thanks again for helping me bounce the 'old noggin in different directions.

And so it begins!

(http://www.rivervalleycomputer.org/geekhack/kb101ateensy001.jpg)
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Thu, 09 November 2017, 13:59:45
Quick and dirty, I got it to work!

Oh it feels so nice to use this KEYBOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is a test pic while typing this message :)

(http://www.rivervalleycomputer.org/geekhack/kb101ateensy002.jpg)

Can anyone recommend a good keyboard testing software? I just want to make sure this thing has been worth the time. :)

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. :)


Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: chyros on Thu, 09 November 2017, 16:03:22
Quick and dirty, I got it to work!

Oh it feels so nice to use this KEYBOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is a test pic while typing this message :)

Show Image
(http://www.rivervalleycomputer.org/geekhack/kb101ateensy002.jpg)


Can anyone recommend a good keyboard testing software? I just want to make sure this thing has been worth the time. :)

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. :)
I use Switch Hitter, it's very useful.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Thu, 09 November 2017, 18:16:23
]I use Switch Hitter, it's very useful.


Thank you! I'll try it first thing tomorrow morning. I'm going to try it on this chiclets I'm using now. Its acutally an Alienware notebook, but only an 11", so the keyboard is quite a bit narrower than normal (M11x).

Edit: I didn't realize that program was for mechanical switch. Made since once I read about it. It did work on this notebook. Only showed chatter on the caps lock lol I use that rarely.

I'm still waiting for Intel, or anyone in the Intel community to give me a hint about the issue of my original post. My money is still on faulty code (more like hoping, so it can be fixed). Even if it is BIOS level, I don't have the knowledge to fix it and its officially dead as far as updates. I'll update this thread if any answers rear their head. Even if I switch hard ware, I'll put this to another personal use. The sister board I have is for sale, so I will have to explain that PS/2 doesn't work. Not that most people care.

Once I get my materials, I will start another thread in the appropriate area about how I put together the Teensy for the tests. I have a couple of ideas, besides what I've already ordered, on how to contain it. The project boxes I ordered are too big. I didn't realize exactly how small I can make this package. What you see above is total prototyping, with enough rigidity to sit on my desk for testing. I used male header pins that are wired into the male pin/wire crimp, but the pin was a hair small, making centering almost impossible. The PS/2 adapter wire is about 1/4 size of the through holes on the PCB. I have the correct straight and 90 degree pins for the board coming, as well as a panel mount USB B to mini and a panel mount DIN to get rid of the PS/2 crap. Just couldn't wait. I could probably leave it alone and it would last for years.. But it needs to look nice.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Sun, 26 November 2017, 11:00:28
Two weeks of use and I could not be happier! There are still a few bugs, but I am working on solutions as I have time. Its really hard to hook a dome keyboard back up so I can work on the Multitech :) I have not turned on any of my old PCs in a long time, so I've forgotten exactly how satisfying switches like these are.

I have not received a reply from Intel. I sent one again, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Passive parts still have not arrived. That is not an issue as of now, since I've found another parts order is needed.

While using this board at work, I found that moving the keyboard would occasionally make the teensy "lock up". I would try to type, only to see no characters on screen and the teensy's LED solid red, 3 seconds at a time. At first, I simply unplugged the USB and re-plugged to get a working keyboard... Strange.. So I tried another round of DIN to PS/2 adapters, a different USB micro to USB A and even re-soldered the four connections at the teensy. No luck. There appears to be a short in the original Multitech cable. I have not been able to pin point where the short is. Some times just the slightest movement will cause interruption, other times you can move it like a whip and it won't break connection... The cable has 30 years of abuse, abrasions, pinches and the like, so patching would be pointless and ugly.

This made me think that maybe I should just mount the teensy inside the keyboard case and use a color appropriate USB cable. The cable management inside the keyboard allows easy replacement, even with a USB sized end; no case modifications required.  However, I kind of want to keep the original look of the coiled cable. I haven't looked at cables yet, so if anyone knows of a coiled USB or just replacement DIN/PS2 style coiled cables, please let me know!

For now, I've secured the cable to restrict movement. While I don't move it much, one reason I love the weight of the keyboard, I do slide it away occasionally to gain desk space.

My last issue is one intermittent key. The "<," key takes a very hard/sharp strike to get the key to register. I plan on dissembling the switch tomorrow, hoping nothing is destroyed. Chyros' new Acer KB-101A review video posted today leads me to believe these switches are not the most durable when abused. My Multitech was disgusting, but all other keys work fine. 

Thanks again for everyone's help! I plan on starting a restoration thread since this thread has become a bit off topic. Sorry about that! I will post here again, if Intel ever does respond.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: chyros on Sun, 26 November 2017, 13:15:41
Ah wait, I completely misunderstood this at first, I thought this was a Key Tronic keyboard in the shape of an Acer KB-101A with Multitech branding, not an ACTUAL KB-101A xD .
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Sun, 26 November 2017, 13:59:31
Ah wait, I completely misunderstood this at first, I thought this was a Key Tronic keyboard in the shape of an Acer KB-101A with Multitech branding, not an ACTUAL KB-101A xD .

Yeah, sorry about that. I had a Keytronic on my desk next to the Multitech when I made the post. I edited the original post and title after you first replied, but I left my mistakes in the first few replies.

I didn't take any pics when I pulled the case and cleaned it. I will scour the inside for date stamps and take some pics. It had a semi-hard life, so its not super pretty like chyros' KB-101A. I don't think it suffered any significant moisture, but it had quite a bit of cheeto and other food crap that did bubble some of the paint on the back plate. Its very minor, but could well be why I'm having problems with the comma key. PCB is spotless though.. I inspected the solder joints well, but could have missed a bad one, of course. I was more interested in making it clean to use, then seeing if it even worked. All the rest of the keys are fine, both in test software and actual use.

Unfortunately I didn't take any pics of the key switches or caps. They look like blue Alps, but I didn't pay super close attention for brand marks. The pile of lint and nasty caps were of my concern at the time :) The switches were fairly clean, being protected by the caps.  I can't remember the construction of the caps either. I'll look tomorrow when I go in to work and take some more pics. You can see in the pics above that the cap color scheme is different than chyros' Acer model.

I guess I'll connect my chicklet keyboard tomorrow and tear the Multitech back apart. I have to think hard about wiring the teensy inside the keyboard case. If it doesn't require major mods, I'll probably do it. I do have a straight USB cable that is grey. I'm on the fence about retro-bright. I don't mind the yellow too much. I'll put all that stuff in a different post with some decent pictures. Its been fun so far and I like it as a daily, moderate use board.

Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: kultra on Wed, 29 November 2017, 06:46:28
Sorry to hijack your thread, but I have a similar problem with you.

I have an Acer kb-102as and isn't working when connected through din->ps/2, ps/2->usb, it exhibit key chatter, if I play with the switch on the bottom it sometimes behave like in the clip u posted: the LEDs are flickering from time to time. If I use the keyboard only with din->ps/2 the keyboard is working, but I want to use the keyboard on different computer, not on the one where I have the ps/2 port.

Any idea?

P.S. Thanks to chyros for planting the virus with ALPS keyboard.  ;) I'm tempted to buy an AT101W for gaming if I manage to make this one work.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Wed, 29 November 2017, 08:15:19
I tried 3 different pre-made PS/2 to USB adapters that all did not work. I was only able to use soarer's firmware on a teensy 2, to allow USB connectivity.

My  keyboard did work fine on native PS/2 and AT ports. It's hard to say if you will have similar results. If you look at my project thread  on this forum, you'll see that my keyboard and the Acer KB-101AS are at bit different under the hood. All the examples of "AS" models do not have the same ROM configuration as my Multitech, although they share the same PCB.

Your issues do sound the same as what I was dealing with. There is a gentleman here that pre-builds teensy adapters and I would check chyros' IBM battleship videos; he shows which adapters he uses.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Wed, 29 November 2017, 08:27:13
Here Is a link to hasu'a prebuilt adapters

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=14618.0

If you want to build it yourself, both hasu and soarer's projects are fairly simple to assemble. I like hasu's module, as it it on a custom PCB, ready to go out of the box. I built my own as he only offers PS/2 input. I plan on making another stand alone adapter wired with a 180 degree 5 pin DIN.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: kultra on Mon, 04 December 2017, 14:43:12
Thanks for your answers.

I looked at the adapters you suggested, but I have no guarantee that they'll work, also they are expensive. Soon I'll pay more for adapters than for the keyboard. The Startech adapters are not active, I tested another keyboard and it resets (the LEDs are blinking and no input is registered) from time to time, more often when I type fast.

Looking at the chyros clip with cruiser keyboard I remembered that we had at least one keyboard like that where I work, but it was recycled, at that time I had no idea it was a good keyboard.

For the moment I'll clean the keyboard, use it for a while on the computer where I have a PS/2 port, if I like it maybe I'll buy one of the adapters you suggested.
Title: Re: Acer KB-101a Clone (Multitech) Connection Problems
Post by: twin_rotor on Mon, 04 December 2017, 15:05:54
That is why I suggested the AT mega based solution I used.

I paid $15 for the PJRC ATmega32u(teensy 2), the PS/2 female plug I have literally have hundreds of, and I stole some pins from my "parts box" to make it an easy solder job. That's the same price as any of the cheap active adapters that are supposed to work, but like you, I had no luck with any of them.

I have a $6 Chinese mega32u coming in the mail, but who knows what it will be like. I have a project thread for this keyboard, so I'll probably report results there, as the rest of my hardware is in the same slow boat. Even if I use the "real deal", I'll be out $19 with the teensy in a box, with a 180 degree DIN socket and a female USB Type B flush mount.

The ATmega worked out of the box with the first and last "firmware" soarer released. The adapters chryos uses are pricey ($30-40 USD), but he has yet to have a problem with them.