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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: _rubik on Fri, 08 December 2017, 18:48:19
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Before I say anything more, I want to preface this whole thing: This is all preference. o p i n i o n. The purpose of this thread is to provide perspective to anyone interested in the domes. If you're on the fence, I HIGHLY recommend buying the sample set first. I cannot stress that enough.
I received my BKE redux heavy domes this afternoon and dropped them into my RF87u. I immediately noticed how stiff and tactile they were. Now, I bought them with the full understanding that they were heavy and tactile, but this is order of magnitudes more tactile or 'sharp' than I had expected. I'm not sure if this is mostly in part because of the steel plate on the realforce, but I'm curious to see if others had a similar experience.
Typing is fatiguing and not very comfortable. Topre is generally described as an 'elegant' experience, but these domes really change that. It's a pretty harsh experience as is. I am forcing myself to use the board to see if it will grow on me, but I really don't think that will happen. I quite enjoyed the stock 55g domes that were previously in this board, but I dropped those into my hhkb because I felt that the 45g was too light. Thoughts?
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Reserved for opinion updates:
2017-12-08-19:50 -- I guess I maybe see the appeal. It's just such a harsh typing experience.
2017-12-09-12:11 -- I've been getting used to the weight and it may be growing on me? It's still pretty harsh, but now all other topre boards feel like mush compared to this.
2017-12-10-14:27 -- I think I've gotten a feel for the domes. I have serious mixed feelings about them. I guess I found my upper limit for tactility and weight. If you have a light touch, these are certainly not for you. If you like to hammer on your board, they can be quite satisfying.
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This is the second time I have heard someone describe them as harsh... They went on to say it was almost unpleasant. Almost all the reviews I have read say there extremely tactile and sharp. I don't think its just you and it really is opinion. I find it a valid opinion my self. I have also heard the lights are closer to 45-55gr domes on the Real force boards. Which leaves me to wonder if I do try them should I go with lights are wait for the super lights.
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This is the second time I have heard someone describe them as harsh... They went on to say it was almost unpleasant. Almost all the reviews I have read say there extremely tactile and sharp. I don't think its just you and it really is opinion. I find it a valid opinion my self. I have also heard the lights are closer to 45-55gr domes on the Real force boards. Which leaves me to wonder if I do try them should I go with lights are wait for the super lights.
I'm kicking myself a bit for not grabbing a test set before I went all in. On that note, I am in no way criticizing KeyClack or this product. For what it is, it is well designed and is a wonderful product.. just not the dome for me. Who knows. I'll be using the board for the next few days and updating the thread if my opinion changes at all.
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I'm sure someone has done this before, but I'm too lazy to hunt it down. Can you do the "nickel test" on those heavy domes?
Edit: I'm curious because my favorite switch (capacitive buckling spring F122) has a nickel test activation of about 65g, and the 55g Topre feels a little on the light side to me.
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I'm sure someone has done this before, but I'm too lazy to hunt it down. Can you do the "nickel test" on those heavy domes?
Edit: I'm curious because my favorite switch (capacitive buckling spring F122) has a nickel test activation of about 65g, and the 55g Topre feels a little on the light side to me.
I don't have a pile of nickels but I do have quarters. The key pressed on the 16th quarter, but can hold 15 just fine. So, working with 5.76 grams per quarter, it takes somewhere between 86 and 92 grams to press. That does seem higher than advertised, but it does feel about right. I hope that helps.... It wasn't a very scientific procedure.
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So, working with 5.76 grams per quarter, it takes somewhere between 86 and 92 grams to press. That does seem higher than advertised, but it does feel about right. I hope that helps.... It wasn't a very scientific procedure.
Thanks! That's a crazy amount of force to actuate, so I'm not surprised you don't like it. I think I'll wait for a "medium" dome, if that ever happens.
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I'm also not a huge fan of the heavy domes. I put them in my HHKB and they're pretty harsh. I don't mind the weight, but the amount of noise to board makes is nuts now. I re-lubed and put some foam in the case which helped, but I still can't decide if I like them. (It's about as loud as my Blue Alps board)
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All BKE domes are very sharp and not to my liking. Been telling people since day 1 a lot of you are in for a surprise :D There's such a thing as too tactile. BKE domes take a smooth ass topre board and make it into a sharp collapsing mess.
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I'm also not a huge fan of the heavy domes. I put them in my HHKB and they're pretty harsh. I don't mind the weight, but the amount of noise to board makes is nuts now. I re-lubed and put some foam in the case which helped, but I still can't decide if I like them. (It's about as loud as my Blue Alps board)
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It's loud indeed i was surprised when i heard how loud it became. The rubber goes back to it's normal state in a force hitting the plastic slider hard to the plastic case making the it louder then usual. I wonder if silencing rings would eliminate this problem :S
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BKE domes take a smooth ass topre board and make it into a sharp collapsing mess.
Collapsing is a great way to describe it. The domes give so much resistance up, and then buckle with 0 resistance after that. I've gotten a tad used to it, but it's certainly a unique feel.
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I've had the light domes in my board for a couple of weeks and even those are sharp and harsh. I put my silencing rings back in this morning, but the domes are slightly taller than the stock domes, so they don't really sit right with the rings in. The rings helped a lot with the sharpness, but I have a couple sticky keys and the sound is inconsistent because the domes aren't sitting properly.
Plenty of other people seem to like them though. But if the comfortable and pillowy typing experience of Topre is what you crave, I suggest passing on BKE domes entirely.
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I've had the light domes in my board for a couple of weeks and even those are sharp and harsh. I put my silencing rings back in this morning, but the domes are slightly taller than the stock domes, so they don't really sit right with the rings in. The rings helped a lot with the sharpness, but I have a couple sticky keys and the sound is inconsistent because the domes aren't sitting properly.
Plenty of other people seem to like them though. But if the comfortable and pillowy typing experience of Topre is what you crave, I suggest passing on BKE domes entirely.
I have gotten more used to them, and I'm starting to enjoy their weight. In fact, even burnt orange kailh (which previously felt too stiff) are not enjoyable. It's the harsh tactility that is throwing me off.
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I bought a few packs of the lights, threw them in a HHKB JP (kbd x rings), 87U-S, and JTK'd Pro2 (kbd x rings).
The 87U-S feels amazing with them, BUT I'm sad to see my silent board be louder so I think they will be coming back out soon.
HHKB JP, not bad at all but it sure seems more brutal on the plastic case than the 87u. The silence x rings do almost nothing for this, maybe jchans new rings will dampen a bit better. I would throw on HS rings but I don't care for switch travel loss this creates.
JTK'd Pro2, this thing is already a bit loud as it is, BUT with the BKE domes it definitely feels a good bit better. Pretty sure I'll leave the domes in this one.
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I replaced the stock domes in my HHKB Pro 2 with BKE Redux Light domes, and in most respects I’m happy with the change.
I have had a RealForce 87U with 55g domes. These BKE Redux light domes feel very similar to the force required to actuate the 55g RealForce domes, but these domes are much more tactile.
I was a little apprehensive about swapping domes for two reasons: 1) they are widely reported to be a fair bit louder than stock domes 2) many people have a tough time keeping the domes aligned while attaching them to the PCB.
Originally, I had installed Hypersphere silencing rings. They do a great job reducing noise, but I didn’t like the trade-off with the the slight reduction in travel. But with the reported additional noise from the Redux domes, I was willing to install them again.
I took the opportunity to lube my slider housings while board was disassembled. And the noise with these domes is a non-issue when combined with the silencing rings. I have another stock HHKB (stock, but lubed), and the Redux domes (with silencing rings) is no louder than a stock, lubed HHKB. So I’m really pleased the noise is no issue.
But I did have a hard time keeping the domes aligned while attaching the PCB. Having installed silencing rings and a few other boards, it wasn’t an issue of being new to the process—it’s just really fiddly.
I think the issue with getting the domes to fit correctly is a small manufacturing issue. On about 10% of the domes there is excess flashing on the left or right side cutouts. It’s not hard to cut the excess out with a precise pair of scissors.
I have boards with Kailh Box Whites and Box Pale Blues. I like the sound and feel of the Pale Blues better, but with long typing sessions, the Pale Blues fatigue my fingers a bit, so I stick with the Box Whites mostly. To get a longer, continuous typing experience with the Redux domes, I put a NYTimes article into a typing site (keybr.com) and typed the whole thing out (about 20 minutes at about 75 WPM).
I only felt minor fatigue at the end of 20 minute of continuous typing. A soon as I finished the article with the Redux domes, I switched back to my stock HHKB. There isn’t much of a difference in force required for actuation, but the Redux domes are slightly “heavier.”
But the difference in switch/dome feel is significant. The stock HHKB feels like it has a governor slowing down the key rebound.
The human eye can perceive the speed of the key rebound in the stock HHKB—you press a key down and you can watch it return. With a Redux dome, you can’t really see the rebound of the key press. The quick rebound really compensates nicely for the lack of a crisp bottom out in the HHKB’s plastic plate.
In summary, the BKE Redux domes just feel better and right; the stock HHKB feels like topping out at 20 miles per hour in a golf cart when you’re in a hurry to get somewhere. It feels like the keyboard can’t keep up with you—not really the case for me as I only approach 100 WPM an short bursts—but if does feel much less responsive.
The only reasons to consider not using these domes is the finicky fit (I’ve got to open up the board again to fix one inconsistent dome) and the fact you’re going to be sad when you’re required to use other keyboards which feel flat after using these domes.
I’ve tried to give a little context, but everything in keyboards is relegated to personal tastes. It's very challenging to to make a decision about these domes from reading reviews with any confidence…my reading made me skeptical they’d be a fit for me, but I’m going to get another set. Just wish I could get jchan to drop by to install them for me.
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Sounds like 55g Topre is the perfect compromise.