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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Waateva on Thu, 21 December 2017, 13:47:28

Title: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 December 2017, 13:47:28
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deilor/dygma-raise-the-worlds-most-advanced-gaming-keyboa?ref=8p2qgc (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deilor/dygma-raise-the-worlds-most-advanced-gaming-keyboa?ref=8p2qgc)

Is this the end of the ErgoDox and other ergo boards as we know it?!?  Will tp4 finally admit defeat?!
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 21 December 2017, 15:38:53
Yea.. but what about Tenting ?

Without multi-axis tenting,  this is a half measure at best..


I doubt EGDX's creator understood the importance of multi-axis, it was probably just coincidence that the low budget plate sandwich design with its periphery screw holes made it very convenient to adjust axes.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 21 December 2017, 16:09:39
It is just a split 60% with standard staggered QWERTY, except with more thumb keys, more RGB, Kailh's switch-swapping sockets and integrated wrist rests.
It is more of a competitor to Mistel Barocco (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87193) and the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59712.50) than to the ErgoDox.

The splitting of the Space Bar into four keys is not going to be for everyone and I'm afraid that the low-profile thumb keys in the front could still be too high.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: digi on Thu, 21 December 2017, 16:15:04
lol @ extreme gaming Diablo

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/019/606/074/1d7180cc02c6645fc73be6b97fbafd43_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1513315279&auto=format&q=92&s=e6026dceb48df9a18973fe09779d2ac0)
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: microsoft windows on Thu, 21 December 2017, 16:25:17
WOW! THAT IS REALLY ADVANCED! DOES IT WORK ON WINDOWS 3.1?
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Tom_Kazansky on Thu, 21 December 2017, 19:30:12
Quote from: Waateva on Thu, 21 December 2017, 13:47:28
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deilor/dygma-raise-the-worlds-most-advanced-gaming-keyboa?ref=8p2qgc (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deilor/dygma-raise-the-worlds-most-advanced-gaming-keyboa?ref=8p2qgc)

Is this the end of the ErgoDox and other ergo boards as we know it?!?  Will tp4 finally admit defeat?!

he won't, tp4 is on and on about tenting and this board doesn't have that  :p
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 21 December 2017, 20:01:47
Quote from: Tom_Kazansky on Thu, 21 December 2017, 19:30:12
Quote from: Waateva on Thu, 21 December 2017, 13:47:28
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deilor/dygma-raise-the-worlds-most-advanced-gaming-keyboa?ref=8p2qgc (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deilor/dygma-raise-the-worlds-most-advanced-gaming-keyboa?ref=8p2qgc)

Is this the end of the ErgoDox and other ergo boards as we know it?!?  Will tp4 finally admit defeat?!

he won't, tp4 is on and on about tenting and this board doesn't have that  :p


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: digi on Fri, 22 December 2017, 15:56:45
Quote from: microsoft windows on Thu, 21 December 2017, 16:25:17
WOW! THAT IS REALLY ADVANCED! DOES IT WORK ON WINDOWS 3.1?

YES BUT YOU'LL NEED ONE OF THESE

(http://gridconnect.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ParalleltoUSB.jpg)
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Fri, 22 December 2017, 17:33:46
I'm curious about the hot swappable switches, how well does that work in practice? Overall it's a really attractive board, I always though the Hacking keyboard was ****ing ugly as sin, so this is a nice (seeming) alternative to that, and they guarantee it will be tentable as well, which I don't have for my VE.A. I would love to hear more experienced users real thoughts on this...
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 22 December 2017, 17:47:40
Quote from: dead_pixel_design on Fri, 22 December 2017, 17:33:46
I'm curious about the hot swappable switches, how well does that work in practice?
Because they are using Kailh switches and it looks in the animated GIF that there are extra-wide circular holes in the PCB, I think they must be using Kailh's sockets.
The Kailh sockets were used in Input.Club K-Type, so I would look for reviews of that one.

I think that some Cherry MX Clones like Outemu have too narrow pins to get a reliable connection in the cylindrical Holtite sockets. Kailh's sockets instead pinch against the flats.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Sat, 23 December 2017, 22:02:19
Quote
E-sports is the most extreme activity done with a keyboard, but the keyboard wasn't designed for gaming.  Professionals in their early 20s are suffering frequent back, neck and wrist issues.  If they're already experiencing health problems, what will be like in ten years?

Maybe they'll have real jobs by then?

Actually, I hope in ten years we'll be playing games in virtual reality with wands in our hands, or maybe even glove controllers.  (And programmers and writers will still want keyboards designed for typing.)  I've got a Vive setup here, and even though it's still early days, there's some fun stuff on it.  It reminds me of computer gaming in the 1980s when everything was new and developers experimented freely.  Space Pirate Trainer is a blast!
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: _rubik on Sat, 23 December 2017, 23:38:11
End of the day, it was designed by a esports coach looking to improve the lives of his team and competitors. Pretty cool as far as I'm concerned.
I actually see this overtaking the dox because of those gnarly leds and gaming heritage.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 24 December 2017, 03:31:08
Hmm.. The price is €189 at "Save 20% percent") i.e 4/5 of the planned MSRP, which would then be €236 = $280 USD.
Meanwhile, the Kinesis Freestyle Edge sells at $219, although without wrist rests.

BTW. The symbol on their Windows keys ^ (apparenty for "Raise") is the symbol for the Control key used on Macintosh and Unix/Linux systems.

I hope that is a real Y-cable with one USB plug at the other end and not two USB cables.
I have thought of doing a Y-cable setup with two 6-pin plugs as a mod for a split keyboard, but I was too lazy to build it: the idea is to duplicate power and USB to both sides but connect the two lines for I²C through the Y-cable junction.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Sun, 24 December 2017, 09:58:08
Quote
The giant space bar is one of the things that we’ve inherited from the typewriter that doesn’t make sense any more; we don’t have the technical limitations from 100 years ago. The thumb is the strongest and least used finger and it's dexterous enough to handle more than a big key.

Agreed.  Not sure how I feel about their "under row" keys, though.  It seems to me like it might be easy to get them mixed up.  I'm pretty dedicated to the 2.25—1.25—2.75 split spacebar layout, myself.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 24 December 2017, 10:29:07
For gaming, you keep the left hand in one position all the time. For typing though... I believe people often move the hand from side to side, not always pressing the space bar in the same position.
Several polls on this forum have shown that people are used to pressing the space bar in diverse ways.

Yes, I know the Kinesis contoured, ErgoDox and all sorts of small or ortholinear keyboards have narrow space bars, but those keyboards are known to have a learning curve. Also, Kinesis contoured's thumb keys have different shapes to help the user locate the right key -- which this keyboard does not have.

Quote from: Zobeid Zuma on Sat, 23 December 2017, 22:02:19
Actually, I hope in ten years we'll be playing games in virtual reality with wands in our hands, or maybe even glove controllers.
Wands could also be tiring. It is well known that professional sign-language "talkers" can get RSI from their work, just in different muscles from typists.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Sun, 24 December 2017, 11:43:06
Well, you can overdo anything and hurt yourself if you go at it intensely enough.  However…  If I may speculate, I would guess that VR gaming will be less prone to RSI, because the movements are more varied and engage more of the body rather than just twitching the same few little muscles over and over.  I laugh a little at "E-sports", but to me playing in VR feels a bit closer to real sports when I'm ducking, dodging, punching, etc.  Some of the games can be a fair aerobic workout.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 24 December 2017, 15:17:06
What bugs me is when they show how your wrists are bent when using a “normal” keyboard. 

Actually, no.  Mine are straight.  I don’t know how you could properly touch type with bents wrists like that.  You wouldn’t be able to reach a lot of keys. 
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 24 December 2017, 15:33:21
wow it's a g80-5000 but uglier
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: daskeybo on Sun, 24 December 2017, 15:50:34
Thumb keys is a great idea.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: kasakka on Tue, 26 December 2017, 13:39:52
I've got a few issues with the design. The non-removable wrist rests are a minus as they make the keyboard harder to transport and it seems that the extra row keys are all 1u which means changing them might make them less comfortable than the stock ones. If the side ones were 1.5u or something it would allow for 3rd party caps better.

How the keyboard is hooked up is also a bit of a mystery as you can see two wires going out but nothing connecting the two halves. Maybe that dongle thing they connect to is what handles the output from each half. If that's how it works it's a pretty clever way to do it. The magnetic connectors give me concern for long term reliability, I really don't see why they didn't just go with USB-C there.

I feel like they are trying too hard to do all the "cool" stuff for this.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: algernon on Wed, 27 December 2017, 16:54:06
Quote from: kasakka on Tue, 26 December 2017, 13:39:52
How the keyboard is hooked up is also a bit of a mystery as you can see two wires going out but nothing connecting the two halves. Maybe that dongle thing they connect to is what handles the output from each half. If that's how it works it's a pretty clever way to do it.

Yes, that dongle thing (dubbed The Huble) connects the two halves, and as far as I remember, has the "brains" of the keyboard. The idea is that it will make it possible to use it with other compatible devices later. It also allows one to use either side of the keyboard only, and a mouse in the other hand. It is, indeed, a clever design.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 27 December 2017, 17:50:54
Quote from: digi on Fri, 22 December 2017, 15:56:45
Quote from: microsoft windows on Thu, 21 December 2017, 16:25:17
WOW! THAT IS REALLY ADVANCED! DOES IT WORK ON WINDOWS 3.1?

YES BUT YOU'LL NEED ONE OF THESE

Show Image
(http://gridconnect.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ParalleltoUSB.jpg)


WOW! THAT IS A LOT OF ADAPTERS! IS THAT YOUR COMPUTING SETUP? I DON'T THINK I HAVE THAT MANY ADAPTERS ON MY KEYBOARD.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 27 December 2017, 18:15:19
Quote from: kasakka on Tue, 26 December 2017, 13:39:52
... it seems that the extra row keys are all 1u which means changing them might make them less comfortable than the stock ones.
I assume you mean the second thumb-key row: those are low-profile Kailh switches with their own keycap mount so you are not likely to replace those caps anyway.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: ander on Thu, 28 December 2017, 05:03:41
[attachimg=1]


Yikes—hardware with a hard-on!
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Coreda on Thu, 28 December 2017, 05:09:28
^ I like that the stool is there just so it doesn't break away  :))
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Nikkō on Thu, 28 December 2017, 11:12:17
Saw this a few weeks ago, just some guys trying to get on the "gaming keyboard" bandwagon. At least they're bringing in something different to the gaming community instead of just doing a TKL or a full size and copying Razer. They might be successful tbh.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: FoC_Tow on Thu, 28 December 2017, 20:03:50
I think the board is at the very least a step in the right direction.

Would love to see more mainstream brands putting some thought to ergonomics, layout and premium materials rather then just slapping more rgb in boards.

The current lineup of gaming peripherals is pretty sad at best tbh, so this is awesome compared to that.

I kinda like a lot about the board tbh, but I have a few concerns like the Y Cable beeing to short for my liking.
For FPS gaming I would like to get the right side out of the way but still be able to use it for typing in chat for example.

Low profile switches are also tough for switching caps.
I guess you could cast replacements but idk how easy casting for low profile would be?
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: bukti on Sun, 22 December 2019, 16:53:02
Anyone received their Dygma Raise yet?

Looks like they started shipping recently.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Sintpinty on Sun, 22 December 2019, 19:57:26
Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 21 December 2017, 15:38:53
Yea.. but what about Tenting ?

Without multi-axis tenting,  this is a half measure at best..


I doubt EGDX's creator understood the importance of multi-axis, it was probably just coincidence that the low budget plate sandwich design with its periphery screw holes made it very convenient to adjust axes.

Why do people like split?
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: bukti on Sun, 22 December 2019, 20:55:04
Quote from: Sintpinty on Sun, 22 December 2019, 19:57:26
Why do people like split?

Ergonomics. More relaxed setup that results in less wrist pain in the long run.
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: yuppie on Sun, 22 December 2019, 23:13:15
DYGMA? MORE LIKE LYGMA!!!
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Sintpinty on Mon, 23 December 2019, 08:04:06
Quote from: yuppie on Sun, 22 December 2019, 23:13:15
DYGMA? MORE LIKE LYGMA!!!

Eatma is a new startup have you heard about it?
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: bukti on Thu, 26 December 2019, 01:12:41
Quote from: yuppie on Sun, 22 December 2019, 23:13:15
DYGMA? MORE LIKE LYGMA!!!

I don't get it  :confused:
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: Sintpinty on Thu, 26 December 2019, 07:33:25
Quote from: bukti on Thu, 26 December 2019, 01:12:41
Quote from: yuppie on Sun, 22 December 2019, 23:13:15
DYGMA? MORE LIKE LYGMA!!!

I don't get it  :confused:

):
Title: Re: WORLDS MOST ADVANCED KEEB
Post by: bukti on Tue, 11 February 2020, 17:37:45
Just received my Dygma Raise.

Best keyboard yet for ergo keyboard that's not too different from a standard layout.
Beats out my UHK purely from better modifier keys at the bottom of keyboard.

Just need to wait for their tenting solution to come.

Only criticism is their firmware & software for modifying the keyboard still has a few bugs to iron out, but once setup, it's great.