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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: EscapeVelocity on Wed, 27 December 2017, 11:31:50

Title: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Wed, 27 December 2017, 11:31:50
Ill start off with...

the return of biege/white computer cases and monitors. 

Bring back Beige!
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: zslane on Wed, 27 December 2017, 12:46:01
1. I’ll add my support to the general call for more white/beige cases.

2. I’d also like to see a resurgence in popularity of full-size keyboards, because if that happened there might be more third party aluminum cases in a full-size form factor. And the more third party full-size alu cases there are, the greater the chances that one will be offered in white/beige.

3. I’d love to see the RealForce R2 become super popular so that maybe a third party alu replacement case (in white) will become available for it (and I can put my RealForce RGB board in one).

Of course, I know that none of these things will happen, but they’re what I wish for most.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 27 December 2017, 14:35:10
These all sound great to me. For 2018

1. Beige anything
2. Heavy ABS plastic custom cases
3. Nicer Alps keycaps
4. my M65-a that I ordered a year ago
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 27 December 2017, 14:46:00
...
3. Nicer Alps keycaps
...

1. I would LOVE to see more Alps support in the keycap department. It's hard because alps users are in the minority, but given the right set I think it would be very popular.
2. GMK JIS support. I've seen so many GMK sets use sublegends in an ANSI layout, and it would be wonderful to see JIS actually recognized in an add-on kit.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 27 December 2017, 15:14:57
Bring back Beige!
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: merlin64 on Wed, 27 December 2017, 16:14:19
I'd like to see more

1. Cat themed artisan keycaps
2. Alps Keyset support
3. More USB C keyboards
4. QMK GUI!
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: davkol on Wed, 27 December 2017, 16:18:33
Affordable spherical PBT keycaps other than DSA. I know there's XDA, but it's uniform profile. I'm more hopeful for Chinese sculpted clones or the random new Cherry-like sculpted spherical profile spotted somewhere recently.

I'd love to see more POM… that's a lost cause, though, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 27 December 2017, 16:20:53
1. Actually tactile mechanical key switches in mainstream "gaming" keyboards. Bring on the Clear and the Purple!

2. Focus on compact micro-ATX form factor PCs.
If you are going with tempered glass -> you want to display it -> you put it on the desk -> it can't be too big.

3. Key switches with shielded light guides instead of bleeding RGB everywhere between keys.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 27 December 2017, 16:59:57
Affordable spherical PBT keycaps other than DSA. I know there's XDA, but it's uniform profile. I'm more hopeful for Chinese sculpted clones or the random new Cherry-like sculpted spherical profile spotted somewhere recently.

I'd love to see more POM… that's a lost cause, though, I'm afraid.

I'm down with PBT but only if we can get non-banana shift and space bars.  I have 2 sets that are unusable b/c the shrinkage is so bad.  I finally built a costar board just so I could use one of my ePBT sets.  They bind on cherry stabs b/c they are so out of spec
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Giorgio on Wed, 27 December 2017, 17:04:59
Thicker PCBs: this increases the stiffness, allowing you to omit the plate, while discovering new layouts. This is possible because USB C port is 1.4mm thinner than micro usb, which allows to use PCBs thicker by 1.4mm without losing compatibility.

If you want one inch thick PCBs you can also use this escamotage:


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 27 December 2017, 17:06:11
3. Key switches with shielded light guides instead of bleeding RGB everywhere between keys.

That's a really cool idea, but it would involve, what is essentially, a light 'corral'. I feel like that could impede cap travel. Even chiclet keyboards like Apples still have a fair it of bleed around the corners of the caps, so I'd be interested to see what people come up with.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: merlin64 on Wed, 27 December 2017, 17:22:26
Thicker PCBs, because USB C port is 1.4mm thinner than micro usb, which allows to use PCBs thicker by 1.4mm without losing compatibility.

If you want one inch thick PCBs you can also use this escamotage:


(Attachment Link)

What would a thicker PCB benefit us? Rigidity? More PCB Layers?.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Giorgio on Wed, 27 December 2017, 17:49:54
Thicker PCBs, because USB C port is 1.4mm thinner than micro usb, which allows to use PCBs thicker by 1.4mm without losing compatibility.

If you want one inch thick PCBs you can also use this escamotage:


(Attachment Link)

What would a thicker PCB benefit us? Rigidity? More PCB Layers?.

More rigidity and less plates. GMK UNIQEY doesn't have a plate, yet it's stiff because the PCB is thick and well attached to the case.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 27 December 2017, 17:51:26
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE PEOPLE USING WINDOWS 95 IN 2018.

(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46529.0;attach=184575;image)
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 27 December 2017, 18:09:25
3. Key switches with shielded light guides instead of bleeding RGB everywhere between keys.

That's a really cool idea, but it would involve, what is essentially, a light 'corral'. I feel like that could impede cap travel.
The Flaretech switches on my Wooting One have it. The switch housing is made that way. There is still some bleed caused by the keycaps being white on the inside and reflecting the light but I suppose it would be better with doubleshot caps that are more black on the inside.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 27 December 2017, 19:02:52
IBM Model F revival projects that actually materialize.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Wed, 27 December 2017, 20:41:47
IBM Model F revival projects that actually materialize.

Hey fohat!  I remember you from back in 2015 when I went on a keyboard binge. Im back for more!
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: davkol on Thu, 28 December 2017, 03:58:15
I'm down with PBT but only if we can get non-banana shift and space bars.  I have 2 sets that are unusable b/c the shrinkage is so bad.  I finally built a costar board just so I could use one of my ePBT sets.  They bind on cherry stabs b/c they are so out of spec

Keycaps larger than ~2u have no place on my keyboards.

Maybe if I typed with my feet…
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: daskeybo on Sat, 30 December 2017, 09:37:11
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE PEOPLE USING WINDOWS 95 IN 2018.

Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46529.0;attach=184575;image)


Thanks Mom!
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Wetherbee on Sat, 30 December 2017, 10:21:06
Mirrored PVD brass plates for the Realforce 86U, 87U, and 91U with cutouts for the authentic Topre MX stabs featured in the Realforce RGB.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: onlyabyte on Sat, 30 December 2017, 19:10:12
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE PEOPLE USING WINDOWS 95 IN 2018.

Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46529.0;attach=184575;image)


Haha! Not sure if that would happen but I really like your site :thumb: - my CPU couldn't have taken a bigger hit.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: LevelSteam on Sat, 30 December 2017, 19:33:20
I'd like to see SP start shipping their sets in trays like GMK, Maxkey, and JTK do. It's silly that one of the biggest and longest operating producers of keycaps still ships them in bags that they can get scuffed up in.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: kmba on Sat, 30 December 2017, 20:27:48
heavy plastic custom cases. 
alps support.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 30 December 2017, 20:46:32
no more bad chamfered case designs

no more poorly executed underglow

more plastic customs, driving prices down and quality up should be a top priority

more pvd brass, especially weights

I'd like to see SP start shipping their sets in trays like GMK, Maxkey, and JTK do. It's silly that one of the biggest and longest operating producers of keycaps still ships them in bags that they can get scuffed up in.

they don't really get scuffed up since they don't really have sharp edges like GMK and JTK, but i'll concede it does look better in a box

the other issue is that SP's (and maxkeys, for fairness) tooling is all manual, whereas GMK (nots sure about JTK) is all automated.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Sat, 30 December 2017, 22:05:31
New topre blanks. 
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: _haru on Sun, 31 December 2017, 05:45:41
Something like PCPartPicker for custom keyboards.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: LevelSteam on Sun, 31 December 2017, 07:59:48
they don't really get scuffed up since they don't really have sharp edges like GMK and JTK, but i'll concede it does look better in a box

My Amazing Chocolatier caps had several light scuffs on various keys which I attributed to the shipping method. Could have happened during production though, who knows. But yeah, if I'm spending $150+ on keycaps they could kick them to me in a plastic tray.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Hyde on Sun, 31 December 2017, 17:13:36
Stock clipped Cherry stabilizers (Leopold and Vortex already do it, why can't anybody else?).

Or Costar stabilizers that doesn't grind on thick keycaps (right now only on Cooler Master's PBT line).

These are such simple fix it should just be the norm.  I don't know what manufacturers are waiting for or just simply don't care.

The mushy Cherry stabilizers basically is a deal breaker for me on 80% of the keyboards in the market now.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: qq on Tue, 02 January 2018, 19:59:42
Keyboards with replaceable switches (no soldering required) and USB-C
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 03 January 2018, 00:01:35
USB C on a keyboard is unnecessary. Keyboards don't talk USB 3.1, they can't draw more power off it anyway (and they shouldn't) and the cable is twice as thick and stiff.
The only thing that USB C gives is a nicer-looking socket and a reversible plug. But there are cables with reversible Micro-USB type B plugs now too.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 03 January 2018, 03:30:48
Availability of RealForce coloured keycap sets, particularly yellow.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: whiskerBox on Wed, 07 February 2018, 22:12:47
Would be neat to see some different materials used in cases, like ceramic or marble bezels that sit in an aluminum or wood base.

Also heavy thick ugly beige stuff, and transparent neon green acrylic cases.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 07 February 2018, 22:15:53
More full size keyboards!
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 07 February 2018, 22:23:59
More full size keyboards!

did you see the IC for equalz mountain?
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 07 February 2018, 22:39:34
Magnetic USB connections, sort of like Apple Magsafe but for USB. No more damaged sticks, easy to connect without looking, they are just nice to have.

While you can buy adapters for USB C, Thunderbolt and micro, but it would be nice if all USB connectors were built this way by default.

For those not sure what I'm talking about it's these: (thunderbolt model shown)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/T9AAAOSw0fhXmhmb/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 07 February 2018, 22:54:31
More full size keyboards!

did you see the IC for equalz mountain?

Yes, so excite!
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 07 February 2018, 23:03:41
Magnetic USB connections, sort of like Apple Magsafe but for USB. No more damaged sticks, easy to connect without looking, they are just nice to have.

While you can buy adapters for USB C, Thunderbolt and micro, but it would be nice if all USB connectors were built this way by default.

For those not sure what I'm talking about it's these: (thunderbolt model shown)
Show Image
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/T9AAAOSw0fhXmhmb/s-l1600.jpg)


This is part of the reason I would like to see a rise in USB-C pcb's.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: ArchDill on Wed, 07 February 2018, 23:12:04
Microsoft Surfaces not being so damn expensive!
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 08 February 2018, 01:40:30
Microsoft Surfaces not being so damn expensive!
I'm the opposite, I would rather see them be more expensive to keep people from buying the damn things.
Can't fix then, can't upgrade them...
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: MGMorden on Thu, 08 February 2018, 09:50:29
I'd like to see more support for full-sized/104 key layouts among the custom kit scene. 

Just generally more variety in switch design.  The Cherry form factor is good for keycap and PCB compatibility but other than that I'd like to see switches that are built differently since I'm not all that big a fan of actual Cherry switches.

Not keyboard related but I'd also like to see more high quality mice that don't look like they're a Decepticon ready to pounce on me. 



Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: nogoodnames444 on Thu, 08 February 2018, 11:07:39
Matias switches getting popular and more prebuilt boards with gateron switches
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 08 February 2018, 11:32:39
Microsoft Surfaces not being so damn expensive!
I'm the opposite, I would rather see them be more expensive to keep people from buying the damn things.
Can't fix then, can't upgrade them...
... and they have horrible keyboards!
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Thu, 08 February 2018, 11:53:36
3. Nicer Alps keycaps

...
3. Nicer Alps keycaps
...

1. I would LOVE to see more Alps support in the keycap department. It's hard because alps users are in the minority, but given the right set I think it would be very popular.


I'd like to see more

2. Alps Keyset support

Has there been an alps DCS set attempted since Alpine Winter? Interested.. The ongoing nexus slider IC is relevant as well.

Affordable spherical PBT keycaps other than DSA. I know there's XDA, but it's uniform profile. I'm more hopeful for Chinese sculpted clones or the random new Cherry-like sculpted spherical profile spotted somewhere recently.

I'd love to see more POM… that's a lost cause, though, I'm afraid.

Why is POM a lost cause? Cherry profile POM is high up on my list of things to try
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: davkol on Thu, 08 February 2018, 15:48:19
Who makes decent (thick) POM caps? Uh, Cherry and PLUM. Who else? In what profiles?
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 08 February 2018, 17:43:46
USB C connectors

Tweak to Xwhatsit firmware that kills the constant buzzer when expansion port is disabled

More Model F custom case one off builds.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Altis on Thu, 08 February 2018, 18:16:20
- Fast-responding software and operating systems
- UIs that actually make sense and are easy on the eyes
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: letsfixitinpost on Thu, 08 February 2018, 18:49:02
I'd be into having a little less RBG and some more vintage / classic styled pc cases and peripherals.  I mean I use rgb in my case because it's just nice to showcase my work, but in the end I find myself wanting to get away from RGB more and more.  Once I saw a corsair RGB headphone stand I figured maybe we were jumping the shark with it.  Still a fan, especially for practical reasons, but it seems to have infested a lot of areas.  I'd also like to see more USB C, but seeing  as my motherboard I bought this year just has one port we're still a ways away in my opinion.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 08 February 2018, 20:43:07

I'd be into having a little less RBG

I find myself wanting to get away from RGB more and more. 


What does "RGB" mean?

I googled the slang and went to the urban dictionary but they only ever talked about the colors.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 08 February 2018, 20:53:44

I'd be into having a little less RBG

I find myself wanting to get away from RGB more and more. 


What does "RGB" mean?

I googled the slang and went to the urban dictionary but they only ever talked about the colors.

It is the colors. Most “gamer” keyboards nowadays have to come with RGB backlighting and/or underglow to be considered acceptable. RGB mania has spilled over into the custom keyboard world as well.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 08 February 2018, 20:57:51
Now I don't know whether I feel more old and stupid or less old and stupid.

I always thought that backlighting was something silly to be turned off or ignored.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: WordStar on Thu, 08 February 2018, 22:11:55
4. QMK GUI!

It would be great to see more fun low tech thrifty hand wired builds. 
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: whiskerBox on Sat, 10 February 2018, 07:29:05
Microsoft Surfaces not being so damn expensive!
I'm the opposite, I would rather see them be more expensive to keep people from buying the damn things.
Can't fix then, can't upgrade them...
I will say we have these surface book laptops for work, and they are pretty cool. Although after a week of using it, I have never taken the screen off or used the pen since.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 10 February 2018, 21:52:02
Microsoft Surfaces not being so damn expensive!
I'm the opposite, I would rather see them be more expensive to keep people from buying the damn things.
Can't fix then, can't upgrade them...
I will say we have these surface book laptops for work, and they are pretty cool. Although after a week of using it, I have never taken the screen off or used the pen since.
They are well made, they look (really) good and they work good (for the most part), I won't deny that.

The connector can be a problem, the keyboard gets NASTY if you have oily skin, USB-C, Win10S (not all), bricked tablets... And don't even get me started on the bait and switch that was Windows RT, which MS gave a a nice middle finger to owners before ending support.  I still remember the days when MS was considered a joke (and in my mind they have returned to this), but today, people bet their entire business on this company and their hardware/software ecosystem, a company who has repeatedly shown they have no care about you or your company.

Here is another thing to consider.
Why is MS competing with their own suppliers? The more you buy MS and ignore the rest, the fewer and fewer options you will have in the future. You are handing MS a monopoly, just like how Apple has a monopoly on their ecosystem. Do you REALLY want MS of all companies having that power. It's bad enough to hand them all of your security and malware (why do you need Defender? if the OS was built right it would be redundant), but now you want to hand them all power over your hardware and data as well? Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.



I admit, even if the Surface was THE absolute best, I wouldn't want to recommend it for the reasons above, but there are plenty of options out there by companies who are not hostile towards your interests or trying to take advantage of you or they trap you in their ecosystem like MS can and does. Someone makes a Surface Pro clone, that is almost a 1 to 1 copy, with USB A and C, no keyboard cloth, and it's cheaper. How about the LG Gram (droool!) or the Dell XPS line... I don't even like Dell, never had one only ever considered a couple even worth owning, but even I would have to consider them they are so good. And there is of course, always Lenovo. They may not look as good, may cost an arm and a leg for what you get, and they depreciate like a Mercedes S class, but there is a reason big corporations like them, they are durable and cheap to repair/keep running. It's for this reason they lose value, too many flooding the market as they come off lease, but while no one likes depreciation, this leads to LOTS of of cheap parts allowing you to do cheap repairs and upgrades.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: whiskerBox on Sat, 10 February 2018, 22:04:12
Microsoft Surfaces not being so damn expensive!
I'm the opposite, I would rather see them be more expensive to keep people from buying the damn things.
Can't fix then, can't upgrade them...
I will say we have these surface book laptops for work, and they are pretty cool. Although after a week of using it, I have never taken the screen off or used the pen since.
They are well made, they look (really) good and they work good (for the most part), I won't deny that.

The connector can be a problem, the keyboard gets NASTY if you have oily skin, USB-C, Win10S (not all), bricked tablets... And don't even get me started on the bait and switch that was Windows RT, which MS gave a a nice middle finger to owners before ending support.  I still remember the days when MS was considered a joke (and in my mind they have returned to this), but today, people bet their entire business on this company and their hardware/software ecosystem, a company who has repeatedly shown they have no care about you or your company.

Here is another thing to consider.
Why is MS competing with their own suppliers? The more you buy MS and ignore the rest, the fewer and fewer options you will have in the future. You are handing MS a monopoly, just like how Apple has a monopoly on their ecosystem. Do you REALLY want MS of all companies having that power. It's bad enough to hand them all of your security and malware (why do you need Defender? if the OS was built right it would be redundant), but now you want to hand them all power over your hardware and data as well? Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.



I admit, even if the Surface was THE absolute best, I wouldn't want to recommend it for the reasons above, but there are plenty of options out there by companies who are not hostile towards your interests or trying to take advantage of you or they trap you in their ecosystem like MS can and does. Someone makes a Surface Pro clone, that is almost a 1 to 1 copy, with USB A and C, no keyboard cloth, and it's cheaper. How about the LG Gram (droool!) or the Dell XPS line... I don't even like Dell, never had one only ever considered a couple even worth owning, but even I would have to consider them they are so good. And there is of course, always Lenovo. They may not look as good, may cost an arm and a leg for what you get, and they depreciate like a Mercedes S class, but there is a reason big corporations like them, they are durable and cheap to repair/keep running. It's for this reason they lose value, too many flooding the market as they come off lease, but while no one likes depreciation, this leads to LOTS of of cheap parts allowing you to do cheap repairs and upgrades.
Who hurt you??? J/k nah I get it lol. If I had 3k to pick a laptop with it would have probably been some kind of maxed out Thinkpad.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: whiskerBox on Sat, 10 February 2018, 22:06:23
IT guy already told me they RMa'd like 10 of them in the past year too lol

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: _rubik on Sun, 11 February 2018, 17:58:38
3. Nicer Alps keycaps

...
3. Nicer Alps keycaps
...

1. I would LOVE to see more Alps support in the keycap department. It's hard because alps users are in the minority, but given the right set I think it would be very popular.


I'd like to see more

2. Alps Keyset support

Has there been an alps DCS set attempted since Alpine Winter? Interested.. The ongoing nexus slider IC is relevant as well.

Affordable spherical PBT keycaps other than DSA. I know there's XDA, but it's uniform profile. I'm more hopeful for Chinese sculpted clones or the random new Cherry-like sculpted spherical profile spotted somewhere recently.

I'd love to see more POM… that's a lost cause, though, I'm afraid.

Why is POM a lost cause? Cherry profile POM is high up on my list of things to try

There is some clear desire for alps support. Tough part is, mx compatibles will always sell. I don't want to say that's mx sets are playing it safe, but...
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: ander on Mon, 12 February 2018, 06:42:40
Now I don't know whether I feel more old and stupid or less old and stupid... I always thought that backlighting was something silly to be turned off or ignored.

Are you kidding? They're just getting started. I have it on good authority that 2018 will be the year of keyboard strobe lights, mirror balls and smoke machines.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: tron on Mon, 12 February 2018, 14:51:20
Would love to see a solenoid in some of the larger retro cases or supported via break out box (pictured is my 5251 with solenoid).
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: omjak on Mon, 12 February 2018, 23:15:56
1. High quality keycap sets for Topre switches
2. High quality backlit keycap sets
&  Lower prices on everything lol
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 13 February 2018, 01:05:40
1. High quality keycap sets for Topre switches
2. High quality backlit keycap sets
&  Lower prices on everything lol

GMK workin on that second thing
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: TheInverseKey on Tue, 13 February 2018, 12:43:51
PBT everything, I mean like keycaps and cases.  This way none of the plastic yellows.  Also the keycaps don't wear down as fast as ABS.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: _rubik on Tue, 13 February 2018, 15:53:55
PBT everything, I mean like keycaps and cases.  This way none of the plastic yellows.  Also the keycaps don't wear down as fast as ABS.

I may be taking your comment too seriously, but pbt is a very brittle plastic and is quite hard to work with. It's great for keycaps etc, but is a terrible choice for cases.

See: https://www.kunststoffe.de/en/_storage/asset/589652/storage/master/file/6117989/download/Cause%20and%20Remedies:%20Brittle%20Fracture%20in%20PBT.pdf

As for pbt keycaps... I totally agree. My biggest complain with GMK is the abs wear.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 14 February 2018, 19:52:18
Would love to see a solenoid in some of the larger retro cases or supported via break out box (pictured is my 5251 with solenoid).

Is there some small-ish solenoid out there that could bring a nice tactile punch to our cool keyboards?  I need this in my life.  My dream keyboard for 2018: beige, plastic case, 65%, solenoid, musical speaker, USB-C, and comes with SA retro keycaps installed

 :p
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: tron on Thu, 15 February 2018, 10:54:31
Would love to see a solenoid in some of the larger retro cases or supported via break out box (pictured is my 5251 with solenoid).

Is there some small-ish solenoid out there that could bring a nice tactile punch to our cool keyboards?  I need this in my life.  My dream keyboard for 2018: beige, plastic case, 65%, solenoid, musical speaker, USB-C, and comes with SA retro keycaps installed

 :p

Solenoids are dirt cheap and could probably be integrated into some of the larger retro cases coming out. It makes sense to use them given the retro design trend, however, someone would have to write code to support it and design a new case/pcb with break out pins (Rama and Wilba collab :thumb:).



Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: TheInverseKey on Thu, 15 February 2018, 12:51:13
PBT everything, I mean like keycaps and cases.  This way none of the plastic yellows.  Also the keycaps don't wear down as fast as ABS.

I may be taking your comment too seriously, but pbt is a very brittle plastic and is quite hard to work with. It's great for keycaps etc, but is a terrible choice for cases.

See: https://www.kunststoffe.de/en/_storage/asset/589652/storage/master/file/6117989/download/Cause%20and%20Remedies:%20Brittle%20Fracture%20in%20PBT.pdf

As for pbt keycaps... I totally agree. My biggest complain with GMK is the abs wear.

Yes the case being made out og pbt was a joke but you are right in the fact that I was there was more pbt keysets for mx mount switches.  So now I have reverted to space invader keyboards because they all come with pbt caps standard.

Ps. PCV cases like the model m also don't yellow might be a better option.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: AMongoose on Thu, 15 February 2018, 12:54:30
Ps. PCV cases like the model m also don't yellow might be a better option.

We shouldn't really make anything out of pvc tho.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 15 February 2018, 13:01:30
Ps. PCV cases like the model m also don't yellow might be a better option.

We shouldn't really make anything out of pvc tho.

Why no PVC?
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 15 February 2018, 14:06:25
PVC is a nasty chemical. Bad for the environment both in its production process and as waste. Burning it releases poison.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: rich1051414 on Thu, 15 February 2018, 15:17:03
Keyboard designs with a left side numpad, right side navigation cluster.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: gilmoregrills on Tue, 20 February 2018, 06:51:29
More topre keycaps! I'd be delighted if someone would just sell nice thick PBT blanks in various sizes so you could cobble together a decent looking set. Or a different profile? Something high profile that was a bit nicer and didn't require you to find a board from the 80s or something would be chill as hell.

Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Wetherbee on Tue, 20 February 2018, 07:21:28
1. PBT Keysets with GMK levels of quality. Seriously - the Koreans are doing double-shot PBT with the richness of ABS colors. Look at the new Leopold keysets. This doesn't bode well for the future for ABS. People say that ABS vs PBT is subjective, but honestly PBT is denser, doesn't shine nearly as easily, and doesn't discolor. Now that PBT can be manufactured in a doubleshot process with the same richness of colors as ABS there is no argument to continue using ABS. The industry just needs to adapt tooling to the latest doubleshot PBT process.

2. Better solutions for using MX keysets on Topre switches. We are 99% of the way there, just need some refinements in stabilizer support which the Realforce RGB TKL has solved (releasing in 2018). The Noxary XRF could be the best of both worlds with support for both Topre and MX keysets. The market doesn't exist for Topre keysets - we barely meet MOQ on MX keysets. Better to standardize around the MX stem (frankly an industry standard) and just adapt the Topre PCB to use MX sliders using a plethora of available options (many of which can be improved upon but which exist today with no wobble or other issues except for stab support).

Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: _rubik on Tue, 20 February 2018, 15:30:52
PVC is a nasty chemical. Bad for the environment both in its production process and as waste. Burning it releases poison.

I would love to see the environmental impact of this hobby. I recently did that math for amount of carbon released per bitcoin.... it's well over 3000 gallons of gas. PER BITCOIN.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 20 February 2018, 16:10:31
I'd like to see SP start shipping their sets in trays like GMK, Maxkey, and JTK do. It's silly that one of the biggest and longest operating producers of keycaps still ships them in bags that they can get scuffed up in.

This, actually I wish everybody would ship in similar cases to JTK.
[attach=1]
Easily the best packaging I've seen with key caps, especially if you're comparing it too SP's here's your bag full of caps you paid like $200 for approach.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 20 February 2018, 18:35:57
1. PBT Keysets with GMK levels of quality. Seriously - the Koreans are doing double-shot PBT with the richness of ABS colors. Look at the new Leopold keysets. This doesn't bode well for the future for ABS. People say that ABS vs PBT is subjective, but honestly PBT is denser, doesn't shine nearly as easily, and doesn't discolor. Now that PBT can be manufactured in a doubleshot process with the same richness of colors as ABS there is no argument to continue using ABS. The industry just needs to adapt tooling to the latest doubleshot PBT process.

I have the new Cherry profile double shot PBT set from KPrepublic, and it is very nice. The legends aren’t 100% consistent in thickness, but that is just me being nitpicky. Anyhow, I just don’t like the feel of PBT caps at all, and much prefer thick ABS like SA or GMK.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 21 February 2018, 19:27:03
1. Cerakoted and powder coated customs (at reasonable prices) seeing as the colours attainable are thousandfold that way; I personally feel anodising is a little dated but I know that's not likely a popular opinion.

2. Hot swappable factory assembled boards (like the Tokyo60 and Rama's M6, M10 and M60) so that more people have easier entry into the community.

3. Actual good topre to MX sliders and/or (ideally) another way of having MX caps on topre boards that doesn't require case disassembly etc. More/new topre boards wouldn't hurt, either.

4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias) and new alps keyboards in general becoming easier to procure than they are right now so that they can become less of a unicorn for regular hobbyists.

5. USB-C standard.

That's about all I'd want.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: OfTheWild on Wed, 21 February 2018, 20:05:32
- I too am ready for a usb standard... C seems like the right choice going forward.
- I would like to see LED's go away in exchange for all clear switches and RGB underglow controls.
- Modern laptops with built-in mechanical switches.
- Kailh hot swap compatibility on more pcbs.
- Alternative finishes on keyboards besides Chinese anodizing.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: rich1051414 on Wed, 21 February 2018, 22:36:27
- I too am ready for a usb standard... C seems like the right choice going forward.
- I would like to see LED's go away in exchange for all clear switches and RGB underglow controls.
- Modern laptops with built-in mechanical switches.
- Kailh hot swap compatibility on more pcbs.
- Alternative finishes on keyboards besides Chinese anodizing.
I have a drawer full of mini and micro cables. I have become resistant to new standards, no matter how convenient they are xD
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 21 February 2018, 22:43:05
1. Cerakoted and powder coated customs (at reasonable prices) seeing as the colours attainable are thousandfold that way; I personally feel anodising is a little dated but I know that's not likely a popular opinion.

2. Hot swappable factory assembled boards (like the Tokyo60 and Rama's M6, M10 and M60) so that more people have easier entry into the community.

3. Actual good topre to MX sliders and/or (ideally) another way of having MX caps on topre boards that doesn't require case disassembly etc. More/new topre boards wouldn't hurt, either.

4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias) and new alps keyboards in general becoming easier to procure than they are right now so that they can become less of a unicorn for regular hobbyists.

5. USB-C standard.

That's about all I'd want.

I can get behind all your suggestions, especially ones about Topre to MX compatability & real new ALPS switches. I'm honestly really surprised nobody has tried to make a high quality ALPS clone other than Matias TBH. As revered as proper ALPS are by the community you'd think someone would've picked up the ALPS flag by now & been really pushing it in a high end direction. :confused:
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 21 February 2018, 22:47:55
1. Cerakoted and powder coated customs (at reasonable prices) seeing as the colours attainable are thousandfold that way; I personally feel anodising is a little dated but I know that's not likely a popular opinion.

2. Hot swappable factory assembled boards (like the Tokyo60 and Rama's M6, M10 and M60) so that more people have easier entry into the community.

3. Actual good topre to MX sliders and/or (ideally) another way of having MX caps on topre boards that doesn't require case disassembly etc. More/new topre boards wouldn't hurt, either.

4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias) and new alps keyboards in general becoming easier to procure than they are right now so that they can become less of a unicorn for regular hobbyists.

5. USB-C standard.

That's about all I'd want.

I can get behind all your suggestions, especially ones about Topre to MX compatability & real new ALPS switches. I'm honestly really surprised nobody has tried to make a high quality ALPS clone other than Matias TBH. As revered as proper ALPS are by the community you'd think someone would've picked up the ALPS flag by now & been really pushing it in a high end direction. :confused:

We need to sell it to the gamer crowd somehow.... 
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 21 February 2018, 23:11:58
1. Cerakoted and powder coated customs (at reasonable prices) seeing as the colours attainable are thousandfold that way; I personally feel anodising is a little dated but I know that's not likely a popular opinion.

2. Hot swappable factory assembled boards (like the Tokyo60 and Rama's M6, M10 and M60) so that more people have easier entry into the community.

3. Actual good topre to MX sliders and/or (ideally) another way of having MX caps on topre boards that doesn't require case disassembly etc. More/new topre boards wouldn't hurt, either.

4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias) and new alps keyboards in general becoming easier to procure than they are right now so that they can become less of a unicorn for regular hobbyists.

5. USB-C standard.

That's about all I'd want.

I can get behind all your suggestions, especially ones about Topre to MX compatability & real new ALPS switches. I'm honestly really surprised nobody has tried to make a high quality ALPS clone other than Matias TBH. As revered as proper ALPS are by the community you'd think someone would've picked up the ALPS flag by now & been really pushing it in a high end direction. :confused:

We need to sell it to the gamer crowd somehow....

This is very true for ALPS & even Topre for that matter to become as mainstream as MX, not sure what angle could be taken there.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: emenelopee on Thu, 22 February 2018, 11:59:32
Showing my bias a little =/

- Fewer 60% boards rehashing the same but different;
- On the flip side, more full size please;
- Embrace of the left-hand arrow and number clusters;
- Kailh Box switches add PCB-mount pins;
- Higher quality and more varied shine-through;
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Kevadu on Thu, 22 February 2018, 15:22:45
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.

There are physical reasons for some of these differences you know.  While I'm not sure about the pin locations (though I doubt they're arbitrary), if you're building a low-profile switch you probably also want to support low-profile keycaps.  And making the slider have an MX-style mount that protrudes into the keycap inherently requires the keycap to have a certain amount of height.  That's why the low-profile switches have holes in the slider and plastic pins on the keycap that insert into the slider holes.  The entire package can then be made significantly shorter.

Similarly I don't think making an Alps-style switch that's completely MX compatible is as simple as you make it sound.  OK you could probably make an Alps-style switch that accommodated MX keycaps (in fact people are working on mods for that...).  But you're not going to fit an Alps-style switch in an MX housing.  There's no room to place the tactile/clicky leaf spring.  I guess you could do linear Alps but is that really worth it?  I don't feel like there's that much difference between a linear Alps and a linear MX switch.

An actual production Alps switch with MX keycap compatibility would be nice though...
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: rich1051414 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 15:49:03
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.

There are physical reasons for some of these differences you know.  While I'm not sure about the pin locations (though I doubt they're arbitrary), if you're building a low-profile switch you probably also want to support low-profile keycaps.  And making the slider have an MX-style mount that protrudes into the keycap inherently requires the keycap to have a certain amount of height.  That's why the low-profile switches have holes in the slider and plastic pins on the keycap that insert into the slider holes.  The entire package can then be made significantly shorter.

Similarly I don't think making an Alps-style switch that's completely MX compatible is as simple as you make it sound.  OK you could probably make an Alps-style switch that accommodated MX keycaps (in fact people are working on mods for that...).  But you're not going to fit an Alps-style switch in an MX housing.  There's no room to place the tactile/clicky leaf spring.  I guess you could do linear Alps but is that really worth it?  I don't feel like there's that much difference between a linear Alps and a linear MX switch.

An actual production Alps switch with MX keycap compatibility would be nice though...
Didn't SMK already do this? The problem is they decided on doing a different pin arrangement.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 16:02:32
4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias)

That's about all I'd want.

Hear! Hear!

1. High quality keycap sets for Topre switches
2. High quality backlit keycap sets
&  Lower prices on everything lol

GMK workin on that second thing

I didn't know this, that's exciting. I'll be looking forward to pushing these on my gamer friends
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: emenelopee on Thu, 22 February 2018, 17:26:21
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.

There are physical reasons for some of these differences you know.  While I'm not sure about the pin locations (though I doubt they're arbitrary), if you're building a low-profile switch you probably also want to support low-profile keycaps.  And making the slider have an MX-style mount that protrudes into the keycap inherently requires the keycap to have a certain amount of height.  That's why the low-profile switches have holes in the slider and plastic pins on the keycap that insert into the slider holes.  The entire package can then be made significantly shorter.

Similarly I don't think making an Alps-style switch that's completely MX compatible is as simple as you make it sound.  OK you could probably make an Alps-style switch that accommodated MX keycaps (in fact people are working on mods for that...).  But you're not going to fit an Alps-style switch in an MX housing.  There's no room to place the tactile/clicky leaf spring.  I guess you could do linear Alps but is that really worth it?  I don't feel like there's that much difference between a linear Alps and a linear MX switch.

An actual production Alps switch with MX keycap compatibility would be nice though...

Oh indeed, I don't dispute the constraints, and I'm sure they're significant, and certainly low pro keys need different caps, but if immediate uptake is desired a little backward compatibility would help. I made it sound simple as I was using the medium of bullet points. Maybe their intent is to start a whole new segment from scratch, I don't know, I just know I was a little disappointed I couldn't put the low pro switches on an existing PCB.

As to ALPS, that's a different beast - what happens in teh black box between the keycap and PCB is whatever they want it to be, but it would be nice if the end conditions were something that could easily interface with the bulk of the market. Again, bullet points, and just my tuppence.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 22 February 2018, 19:57:25
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.

The pin location can be changed, however, it could significantly up the manufacturing cost of the switch.
However, there is more to compatibility besides the pins, the height of the plate to the PCB is also different. You're basically going to have to re-design the entire switch to make it MX interchangeable.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: emenelopee on Thu, 22 February 2018, 21:24:42
- Pins: it might cost more to fabricate, I'm just pondering what that would mean to better sales if PCBs don't need to be redesigned to accommodate. I'm sure my point is moot however - switches aren't designed for the enthusiast buying a hundred at a time, they're more likely for large scale makers in all industries who buy millions;
- PCB/plate gap: I don't see that as a problem - if the switch fits into a standard plate and a standard PCB it would have made no difference in my build. I am of course using the useless sample size of me and myself;
- My point is only on, as much as possible, standardising the end conditions. Granted the MX cap is harder to figure out in low pro, but common pins and maybe even the plate interface would please me immensely. It's like having a standard cable, or electrical outlets.

Also this is a wishlist, and it's a long way to XMas.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Kevadu on Thu, 22 February 2018, 22:46:53
Didn't SMK already do this? The problem is they decided on doing a different pin arrangement.

Technically SMK switches aren't Alps clones.  I mean, they're similar to Alps switches but also just different enough to warrant a different classification, at least in my opinion.  They're kind of their own thing.

But yeah, MX compatible SMKs are pretty nice!  I'm glad I have a board with them ;)
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Leslieann on Fri, 23 February 2018, 05:02:45
- Pins: it might cost more to fabricate, I'm just pondering what that would mean to better sales if PCBs don't need to be redesigned to accommodate. I'm sure my point is moot however - switches aren't designed for the enthusiast buying a hundred at a time, they're more likely for large scale makers in all industries who buy millions;
- PCB/plate gap: I don't see that as a problem - if the switch fits into a standard plate and a standard PCB it would have made no difference in my build. I am of course using the useless sample size of me and myself;
- My point is only on, as much as possible, standardising the end conditions. Granted the MX cap is harder to figure out in low pro, but common pins and maybe even the plate interface would please me immensely. It's like having a standard cable, or electrical outlets.

Also this is a wishlist, and it's a long way to XMas.
It would be simply easier to replicate the feel with am MX switch, it's just a matter of ramp shape and spring rate.
There are some pcb's that are compatible with both.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Zustiur on Thu, 01 March 2018, 04:06:46
1. Continual increase in genuinely ergo keyboards becoming normal office supply
2. Move away from rubber some cheap keyboards back to mechanical
3. Politicians being held to account for their lies
4. Big companies to realise that the continual cycle of redundancies and new hires is detrimental to the company over all.
5. Me sticking to topic better
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: captsis on Fri, 02 March 2018, 00:32:56
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 02 March 2018, 10:49:55
Keyboards that have many settings should make it possible to change them (and save them!) with key commands on the keyboard itself instead of requiring you to install custom software on the host for changing them.
Few keyboard manufacturers have control panels that work on Linux or MacOS or even on 32-bit Windows (being 64-bit Windows only). Wooting One released a 64-bit x86 Linux version first after half a year, and it was not possible to change from the default rainbow theme in that time.
Title: Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
Post by: Kevadu on Mon, 05 March 2018, 01:25:30
More non-metallic plates.

I built my first fully acrylic sandwich board, including the plate, and I really like the feel and sound of it.  It's less harsh than a metal plate, but it still provides a nice balance of stability (and switch positioning...) compared to going fully plateless.

I'm also quite interested in trying a carbon fiber plate sometime but while there are a few of them out there the options still seem pretty limited.  The vast majority of custom kits come with metal plates.  Frankly I'm getting a little sick of all the metal.