geekhack

geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: wellington1869 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 09:42:08

Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 09:42:08: Just wondering. Cuz he did that to me. And I wonder how far our cyber-bully has to go before there's pushback on this site.

I've finally put him on my ignore list, but there's too long a chain of people who have mentioned to me that they feel bullied by his incessant trolling on this site (and dont feel like being as aggressive as me or xsphat in pushing back). I certainly remember one or two folks who specifically left the site in part because of fights that he picked.

Just wondering. Am I the only one bothered by this kind of trolling on GH? I dont seek out threads that webwit is on just so I can interrupt and takeover the discussion with some inane personal argument. Webwit does that habitually, and did it again with me in one of my classifieds. Yea, I pushed back -- why did I need to? Its got to stop. Comments?
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: kishy on Sun, 04 April 2010, 10:23:04: Without webwit I'd have to go to 4chan if I wanted to see that kind of silliness.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 10:30:59: Quote from: kishy;169463
Without webwit I'd have to go to 4chan if I wanted to see that kind of silliness.

interesting. I was asked this morning why there's so much trolling on a keyboard site. Apparently at least a few people on this site dont think its a 4chan-style troll site. Or that it should be.

So kishy - you'd be ok with your classified's thread being trolled repeatedly with personal attacks? I was having a lovely conversation when I was suddenly called a dog and insulted randomly and repeatedly before I pushed back. You'd be ok if someone did that on your classifieds thread? And on every thread you started on GH?

You can see for yourself exactly where the conversation broke down, the moment webwit showed up to attack me personally on my own classifieds thread: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9369 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9369)
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: kishy on Sun, 04 April 2010, 10:46:17: welly I've had what I'd describe as more than my fair share of it as well - you were on some type of hiatus when it happened.

To be very much direct and to the point, I would not want to see webwit banished from the site. I believe he adds quite a bit to the community on a technical level, a geekiness level, and strange/funny content to get lulz out of.

I do however think that sometimes he goes too far, and it makes the site and its members collectively look like complete and utter **** when he does. It makes iMav look bad, it makes us look bad, it makes our hobby look bad.

A quick 'zing!' here and there with no follow up can be humourous and even tasteful. Anything further is not.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 10:50:30: kishy, if you've been the target of webwit-style trolling on this site, I give you credit for nevertheless not wanting anyone banished.
But is there something in between allowing it to happen freely, and outright banishing?

I definitely agree, btw, that he makes iMav look bad, and makes the site look bad too. Anyone who's been on this site for a while begins to care about it, and he's an insult to that kind of care.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: kishy on Sun, 04 April 2010, 11:12:02: I can't really reply to any specific points here because I'd end up taking a side if I did...

I will however say that I've seen "unacceptable" behaviour from both of you, and I'll openly admit to going over the top myself (in one instance). The key to not letting it drag everything down is letting it go (like I said, the occasional tasteful or justified 'zing!')

Because I'm not sure I like the direction this is taking I think I'll back away, take a seat and grab a drink.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 11:27:45: Irrespective of any merit or lack thereof of what Webwit is saying, it was raised in said marketplace thread that there's something rather idiotic about "ignoring" someone, then *****ing about them, and then going "LOL IM IGNORING YOU" whenever said person reacts to your comments and then going off to make threads to ***** even more. It's the sort of ***gotry you'd expect of a 5 year old...
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 04 April 2010, 11:49:26: Very Intriguing that I should have had a parallel experience recently at OCN shortly after joining, which also caused enough distress to make me consider abandoning my new membership there. (It was my first introduction to a rather dismissive acronym that to me is proof of that the Twitter legacy will prove to be an entire generation of twits: "TL;DR" - in fact, this whole incident is part of how I came to THIS forum in search of a keyboard that was up to the task of creating such posts as that drew the response.) If not for a supportive gesture made by a few others I would have done so, but now I consider it an opportunity to set a better example and personal growth. Temporary use of the "ignore" feature helped me get past my worst urges to retaliate, and I've since found the strength to even remove that handicap and have adopted the acronym into my sig as a badge of sorts. I made sure to thank personally those who were instrumental in changing my decision to leave, and overall the rather painful experience can be counted as an affirmation.

To quote a sig I saw once: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world."

In order for us to take advantage of the opportunity for communication afforded by the internet, we are going to have to find it within ourselves to make that communication worthwhile which entails not only trying to be precise in our own outgoing message, but also requires some latitude when interpreting those messages coming in from others. I suggest that direct dealing with trolls in general from a standpoint of honesty can be a good start, and if unsuccessful in eliminating the nuisance, "ignoring" is a workable solution until such time as we are prepared to try understanding each other once again. In essence the same strategy applies to how we might handle a three-dimensional "bully."

Perhaps a direct PM or even a public response to the offending post explaining your frustrations to webwit might be productive; if he (or she?) is intelligent, thoughtful and compassionate enough to respond with an open mind, then an opportunity for a friendship is made out of enmity, and might find that helps in getting an upper hand on some personal issue that maybe you were sensitive to as well. If you are met with resistance, at least you put forth a positive effort to a more enlightened society coming about, and you can be grateful that the "Ignore" feature provides a convenient way to "mute" noisy blather until that time.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 04 April 2010, 12:02:03: @webwit: If you are familiar with CS Lewis,( and at the risk of becoming a target myself) I offer this:
"Peace, Beaver!"

No matter how you may perceive someone, weaker or stronger, there is likely a higher road to take than finding glee in or at their expense. It doesn't hurt to play nice once in a while since that can encourage someone to keep playing. People who don't understand this are often left with only with the option of "playing with themselves." ;)
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: platon on Sun, 04 April 2010, 14:02:59: I am perfectly ok with webwit. I believe he is an asset for geekhack.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 14:11:26: Quote from: ch_123;169483
Irrespective of any merit or lack thereof of what Webwit is saying, it was raised in said marketplace thread that there's something rather idiotic about "ignoring" someone, then *****ing about them, and then going "LOL IM IGNORING YOU" whenever said person reacts to your comments and then going off to make threads to ***** even more. It's the sort of ***gotry you'd expect of a 5 year old...

As viox said, "Temporary use of the "ignore" feature helped me get past my worst urges to retaliate". I considered that on my part quite mature of me, given the alternatives that webwit (and I guess, you) want to see. As viox said, "if unsuccessful in eliminating the nuisance, "ignoring" is a workable solution" -- I agree, tho as he also suggests, it can only be a temporary solution.

But then there are trolls, and there are those who get their kicks watching trolls.

I do wonder how you'd respond if your classifieds (and every thread you opened) was trolled in that systematic way.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: platon on Sun, 04 April 2010, 14:17:15: Maybe his trolling and all the fuss gave the thread the popularity needed to sell your keyboards.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 14:19:53: Quote from: platon;169502
Maybe his trolling and all the fuss gave the thread the popularity needed to sell your keyboards.

no, the boards had offers on them before he showed up. And anyway thats kind of besides the point, isnt it? I'd rather not sell boards if what it takes is to be systematically stalked by an online troller.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 14:22:07: Quote from: kishy;169482
I can't really reply to any specific points here because I'd end up taking a side if I did...
.

kishy, I note in your diplomatic response a tendency to see this as a "both of you are to blame" type of approach (bigpook did the same). But this isnt so cut and dry. I've never followed webwit around, looking to see which threads he opened and deliberately inserting myself into those threads to derail them with personal arguments. Yet that is precisely what webwit has done to me and others. And this time even in a classifieds.

Is there any difference between the stalker and the stalked? Or are they they same in your view because sooner or later they're in the same room?
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Nonmouse on Sun, 04 April 2010, 14:25:16: Quote from: platon;169499
I am perfectly ok with webwit. I believe he is an asset for geekhack.

First time through I read that as "I believe he is an asshat for geekhack"...
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Nonmouse on Sun, 04 April 2010, 14:34:28: More seriously, though- another board I follow has a "graveyard" forum, that only members can view, and that has the robots.txt set to disallow indexing, so any threads don't show up in search engines. Trolled threads get moved there, so that information and positive contributions don't gt deleted, but it still keeps the tone of the site better, especially for noobs and peoploe searching for information...
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: kishy on Sun, 04 April 2010, 14:36:47: I don't like what could be PERCEIVED from me not responding to that, so I guess I have to.

(oh, and found an avatar. brilliant)

I have the sensation that webwit doesn't follow anyone so much as he does what I do - read every thread and every post as they're created, to prevent a pileup of unread content and potentially missing something interesting.

Perhaps I've just confessed to having no life, but whatever. On a site like this where there are few if any topics that aren't interesting, it's the only way to go.

In other words, I don't think he does what you've accused him of. I felt the same way on the couple occasions where he came after me, but in retrospect...if my threads were coming up as unread, he almost certainly would view them so as to make them no longer unread. If he found something he disagreed with, he stated it.

That's not to say I like or agree with how he communicated his thoughts either in my case or yours...just that he did, and it wasn't necessarily as personal as it appeared.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 04 April 2010, 15:09:37: Second that, Kishy

Part of the other things I said earlier just touched on this, but perhaps I should have expressed more thoroughly; I found that in my most recent frustration, there was an insecurity on my part that had some role in how I interpreted the response I received. In fact, someone else got caught in the fallout of my retaliation at the time who maybe was just trying to add some levity to what was becoming a tense situation. I recognized that only in retrospect, and did apologize, but only after incurring some wrath on behalf of the (newly) offended party. At least I was able to have a slightly more productive conversation with that one after the fact, while my original target simply put further energy into being non-communicative, which earned the ignore list debut. I have never been so grateful for a feature.

Basically the old wisdom still holds even if you do feel singled out (which may be, as kishy pointed out, subjective interpretation), and even more so if you truly are being targeted directly. Don't feed the trolls and they will soon starve. I must say it worked well for me.

And I was rewarded for "un-ignoring" my tormentors by a perfect opportunity to deliver a well-earned zinger when the moment arose. I'll freely admit I was not so high of mind as to let that open invitation for comeuppance pass by. And the truth is that now I am better prepared to accept a valid criticism from that same person should they have something more of value to contribute later. I have no idea what the result of our interaction may be for the other involved, but I know that I definitely am stronger for it in the end.

I will say also it is better to air your grievance as you have done, than simply disappear or to nurse the hurt in silence. It is only by bringing things to light that more than the people involved can learn from them without having to experience the pains first hand. But do so only if you are prepared to learn from it as well, and take to heart that all opinions, even dissenting ones, probably have some element of truth in them worth considering.

Cheers to both of you, welly and web, because in the end no matter what one thing is true... This too, shall pass.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: bitflipper on Sun, 04 April 2010, 15:28:14: I rarely read (or post) past the 3rd page of any thread here. I might miss something cool, but it greatly improves the signal to noise ratio.

I guess I'm a little jaded about all the barbs going back and forth since I used to read a few newsgroups and have seen much worse. I tend to just tune out the noise and move on. It does seem like it's disrespectful of this forum and the person/people who provide it for us.

If another poster wants to flame/harass/attempt to provoke me, so be it. It's a waste of their time and it would only serve to show their stupidity and obsessiveness with some trivial opinion. And it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

On the other side of that, if I'm wrong about something or I've been a hypocrite, then just admit it and move on.

LOL, nice avatar, Kishy.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: sixty on Sun, 04 April 2010, 15:29:05: I just skimmed over the 4 pages in the old topic and both of the pages in this one. If there is one thing that sticks out its that even if webwit first provoked something, it was you welli who kept going on and on in every new post, no matter if webwit even said anything else or not.

If there is one good suggestion in all of those posts, it is that you have to let it go and just calm down. You found the ignore option, thats great! Why not just use it and let everything rest? I don't see the point of going "nanana I can't hear you *******" in every single post (edit: and even adding it to your signature, lol). I figured we would all be old enough to not act like this anymore.

(http://www.spektrum.de/sixcms/media.php/912/thumbnails/Loeffel.jpg.598401.jpg)

That was my opinion on all of this, now I go back to ignoring the offtopic section for another two months and go back to what I came for: clicks and clacks.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 15:36:43: This. I'm here for my keyboard porn, and Webwit is probably the best keyboard pornographer going. I'm hardly here to find a soulmate or something.

And tbh, anyone who thinks Webwit is a troll obviously has no idea what a troll is.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 04 April 2010, 16:32:45: Being right is more important than having the last word. If a discussion gets out of hand, state your case once, clearly. Then let the other person have his say and let the readers decide who made sense.

It's hard to hold back, but ultimately it's more satisfying than bickering.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 04 April 2010, 16:38:28: Well put.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: bigpook on Sun, 04 April 2010, 17:22:21: "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out."

Rodney King
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: platon on Sun, 04 April 2010, 17:31:04: (http://www.jazztelia.com/myfiles/sibylla/258Troll_spray.jpg)
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 04 April 2010, 17:35:34: Ad hominem attacks are unkind. Giving away keyboards for free to noobs is kind.

Using ignore is wise. Provoking the ignored person is unwise.

Things balance out.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: bigpook on Sun, 04 April 2010, 17:37:51: Quote from: ricercar;169526
Ad hominem attacks are unkind. Giving away keyboards for free to noobs is kind.

Using ignore is wise. Provoking the ignored person is unwise.

Things balance out.

ooohh. zen mind. well done.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Nonmouse on Sun, 04 April 2010, 17:38:53: Quote from: bigpook;169523

Rodney King

/me drags pook from thread and beats him soundly.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: bigpook on Sun, 04 April 2010, 17:43:45: Quote from: Nonmouse;169528
/me drags pook from thread and beats him soundly.

Not if I get to my Hyundai first....
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: hyperlinked on Sun, 04 April 2010, 18:22:34: Quote from: Voixdelion;169485
Perhaps a direct PM or even a public response to the offending post explaining your frustrations to webwit might be productive; if he (or she?) is intelligent, thoughtful and compassionate enough to respond with an open mind, then an opportunity for a friendship is made out of enmity, and might find that helps in getting an upper hand on some personal issue that maybe you were sensitive to as well.
I usually take that approach, but there are people you just know that will do nothing but earn you even more pointless **** from. If you go and read the posts that Welly's talking about, it will seem 100% clear that he either likes the attention or he's a touch of crazy.

The ignore feature is your friend. This thread probably just made his week. It's what he wants.

It takes a lot of effort to properly moderate a site and the only thing worse than not doing anything about trolls and abusive users is laying the ban hammer unevenly so that it creates even more discord. Given that iMav is not on here 24/7, having to be the final judge in disputes may not be something he's got time to do.

You can start some really really ugly affairs when people feel that they got banned for lesser offenses than they've seen in the past. I'm actually on the pro side of moderating a board and having a set of minimum community guidelines, but you need the right environment and people for it to work.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: kishy on Sun, 04 April 2010, 18:40:04: Why must we always assume webby is up to no good?

He's just an innocent little duck egg.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 04 April 2010, 20:50:55: Quote from: webwit;169561
I've thought about it, and while I first thought my little story about the dog was just a funny poke, I now realize I've been inconsiderate. I apologize, welly. I know we'll not grow to like each other, but please let your presence on this forum not be spoiled by mine. I know I can speak for all of us that we do respect your contributions about keyboards a lot.

I accept your apology.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: kriminal on Sun, 04 April 2010, 21:33:30: dang.... popcorn aint even finished.. sigh....
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: didjamatic on Sun, 04 April 2010, 21:39:05: Nice work gentlemen.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: hyperlinked on Sun, 04 April 2010, 21:43:26: WTF just happened?!?
Title: Re: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: HaaTa on Sun, 04 April 2010, 21:48:48: World peace

:P
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Nonmouse on Sun, 04 April 2010, 22:03:22: Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya...

C'mon, sing along!

Kumbaya...
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 04 April 2010, 22:50:34: Quote from: didjamatic;169570
Nice work gentlemen.

Indeed.

:love::hippie::grouphug::peace:
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: Brodie337 on Mon, 05 April 2010, 00:34:14: (http://fachisthers.com/images/MISC/Big%20Hug.JPG?0.7866869483312626)
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: spolia optima on Mon, 05 April 2010, 00:58:53: In this post spolia optima makes a vague comment about the netherland's involvement in Sarajevo, then evokes the dutch east india company and sardonically congratulates wellington on a job well done.

It wasn't a very well-thought-out post.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: maxlugar on Mon, 05 April 2010, 02:23:20: Quote from: Brodie337;169589
Show Image
(http://fachisthers.com/images/MISC/Big%20Hug.JPG?0.7866869483312626)

Which one is Welly and which one is webwit?
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: elservo on Mon, 05 April 2010, 11:26:23: I'm sure this discussion has gone completely off the rails, but just in response to the OP: you use rubber domes and scissor keys now, you deserve to have jokes made at your expense.

And as a response to the classified thread, webwit wasn't the one calling the other person a "retard."
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: didjamatic on Mon, 05 April 2010, 11:34:45: Elservo, things have settled, don't pee in the pool.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: elservo on Mon, 05 April 2010, 11:56:07: I was always afraid that sharks would eat me if I peed in the pool. Pee = chum.

I don't pee in the ocean now because of the same fear, but I think it's a tad more reasonable to fear sharks in the ocean than it is to fear sharks in the community pool.

I just felt like both of them could apologize before all was said and done.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: elservo on Mon, 05 April 2010, 11:57:05: I was always afraid that sharks would eat me if I peed in the pool. Pee = chum.

I don't pee in the ocean now because of the same fear, but I think it's a tad more reasonable to fear sharks in the ocean than it is to fear sharks in the community pool.

I just felt like both of them could apologize before all was said and done.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: elservo on Mon, 05 April 2010, 15:42:50: I was shocked when it turned out none of his mistresses were really all that hot. At the very least, his wife should be glad that he wasn't doing any of these women because they were prettier than her.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 05 April 2010, 15:46:58: He was banging some porn star, too. You know, someone like TW should be able to pull better-quality ass than that. Then again, seeing as his only goal was to hit it and be out, it's not all that suprising.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: maxlugar on Mon, 05 April 2010, 15:54:40: Quote from: itlnstln;169814
He was banging some porn star, too. You know, someone like TW should be able to pull better-quality ass than that. Then again, seeing as his only goal was to hit it and be out, it's not all that suprising.

You would know all about that now wouldn't you Sly :)

Isn't that why the women call you Italian Stallion ?
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: maxlugar on Mon, 05 April 2010, 15:56:43: Quote from: elservo;169812
I was shocked when it turned out none of his mistresses were really all that hot. At the very least, his wife should be glad that he wasn't doing any of these women because they were prettier than her.

Not that hot??? That's an understatement. Some of them were downright dogs. I've done, um, I mean seen better tail in Barstow.
Title: Is everyone ok with webwit trolling a classifieds discussion?
Post by: maxlugar on Mon, 05 April 2010, 15:58:51: Quote from: webwit;169816
This thread is getting off-topic.

Sorry for the digression. This thread is all about hate and forgiveness. What better day for mutual apologies than Easter Sunday? ;)