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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:05:49

Title: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:05:49: My case/plate manufacturer told that smallest inner radius for switch hole can be 2mm. 2mm its not much, but considering that there are about +280 corners it can take some time fileing all corners. What do you you think, is it worth it, or try to find other manufacturer ?
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:13:53: Plates are usually laser cut so you can ask for right angles without any additional cost. Cases, on the other hand, are machined, so fillets help reducing the manufacturing costs.
Depending on how large is a single keycap opening in your case, you could live with 2mm fillets. That really depends on your design.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:17:03: It will be cnc machined. I am doing square 13,95mm holes, so without fileing that fillet switches wont fit anyway. I need probably increase to like 13,97-13,98 to make it work.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: pngu on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:17:34: I'm not familiar with what CNC operators can/are willing to do, but perhaps you could get your switch plate laser cut elsewhere and the rest milled? It's likely gonna end up being cheaper too, less machining time and probably tool changes aswell on the CNC.

... or were you doing top shell with integrated plate? In that case you'd have to look for somebody who is willing to mill in a more refined fashion.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:20:13: Yeah, my plate will be integrated with case, so cnc is the way to go. I kinda dont want plate and case to be seperate. But in worst case i am willing to change my design.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: pngu on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:25:23: Well I have a hard time imagining you'd want to spend several hundred quid on a one-off machined case and then file the switch cutouts by hand. So you'd have to either find a different manufacturer or redesign.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:27:41: I personally would change the design but anyway my factory can make 1.5mm fillets. I can provide their contact if you wish.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:33:13: I will probably change design.
Lets say i am building case and plate separate. If i laser cut plate and cnc case (it will be just borders, about 3-5mm thickness), will it make it cheaper ?
About bottom cover. I am planning to make it on my own from wood.
Ill throw photo of initial design:
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:41:15: Quote from: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 04:33:13
If i laser cut plate and cnc case, will it make it cheaper ?
I'm not sure but I frankly believe so, CNC machining should be much more expensive than laser cutting. You could ask your factory anyway.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: xondat on Wed, 28 March 2018, 05:16:55: I do 14x14 switch holes with 1mm radius. 1.5mm plate. Works perfectly.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 28 March 2018, 08:02:54: Ah, so that's a floating-keys design with no bezels ... so all holes would be visible and there is no extra room around switches inside.

Otherwise, you could have used an H-shape (The left one here). It was designed for CNC-ing when you don't have too much radius, and it also allows you to open up mounted Cherry MX switches from the top. (Drawing by Engicoder)
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=59837.0;attach=69397;image)
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 15:39:55: At first my plan was to cnc machine everything so squere holes should make it cheaper. But now i decided to laser cut top plate, so i think cutting with laser wont add too much cost so more detailed cutouts.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 15:53:16: Quote from: Findecanor on Wed, 28 March 2018, 08:02:54
Ah, so that's a floating-keys design with no bezels ... so all holes would be visible and there is no extra room around switches inside.

Otherwise, you could have used an H-shape (The left one here). It was designed for CNC-ing when you don't have too much radius, and it also allows you to open up mounted Cherry MX switches from the top. (Drawing by Engicoder)
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=59837.0;attach=69397;image)

If i understand correctly your switch holes in photo and ones that are in swillkb building tool, I can get rid of four corners and make it like in yours (see photo to understand what i said :D).
To fit switches snug, i should probably stick to the switch on the right, with 0.543'.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 28 March 2018, 18:03:15: Quote from: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 15:53:16
If i understand correctly your switch holes in photo and ones that are in swillkb building tool, I can get rid of four corners and make it like in yours (see photo to understand what i said :D).
Yep. It is the middle of the left and right sides that prevent the switch from sliding sideways.

Quote from: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 15:53:16
To fit switches snug, i should probably stick to the switch on the right, with 0.543'.
That one had been adjusted for kerf when laser-cutting acrylic. Original thread here: Plate cutouts (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59837.0).
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: DonnyD on Sat, 31 March 2018, 16:18:16: Using this design can i get away with 1mm inner radius and 13,98mm sides ?
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: xondat on Sat, 31 March 2018, 16:36:28: Quote from: DonnyD on Sat, 31 March 2018, 16:18:16
Using this design can i get away with 1mm inner radius and 13,98mm sides ?

14mm will do just fine, but yes, 1mm works.
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: hasu on Sun, 01 April 2018, 01:36:03: Quote from: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 15:53:16
Quote from: Findecanor on Wed, 28 March 2018, 08:02:54
Ah, so that's a floating-keys design with no bezels ... so all holes would be visible and there is no extra room around switches inside.

Otherwise, you could have used an H-shape (The left one here). It was designed for CNC-ing when you don't have too much radius, and it also allows you to open up mounted Cherry MX switches from the top. (Drawing by Engicoder)
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=59837.0;attach=69397;image)

If i understand correctly your switch holes in photo and ones that are in swillkb building tool, I can get rid of four corners and make it like in yours (see photo to understand what i said :D).
To fit switches snug, i should probably stick to the switch on the right, with 0.543'.

I'm intrested in how different between with the four corners or without. Anyone tried the both?

It seems to me that NUDEcnc's cutout design works even with 2mm tooling somehow and it can retain the corners. Maybe it is better unless the desing costs up too much?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65747.0

(http://i.imgur.com/Qg7gBjq.jpg)
Title: Re: Switches hole corner radius
Post by: DonnyD on Sun, 01 April 2018, 16:02:44: Quote from: hasu on Sun, 01 April 2018, 01:36:03
Quote from: DonnyD on Wed, 28 March 2018, 15:53:16
Quote from: Findecanor on Wed, 28 March 2018, 08:02:54
Ah, so that's a floating-keys design with no bezels ... so all holes would be visible and there is no extra room around switches inside.

Otherwise, you could have used an H-shape (The left one here). It was designed for CNC-ing when you don't have too much radius, and it also allows you to open up mounted Cherry MX switches from the top. (Drawing by Engicoder)
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=59837.0;attach=69397;image)

If i understand correctly your switch holes in photo and ones that are in swillkb building tool, I can get rid of four corners and make it like in yours (see photo to understand what i said :D).
To fit switches snug, i should probably stick to the switch on the right, with 0.543'.

I'm intrested in how different between with the four corners or without. Anyone tried the both?

It seems to me that NUDEcnc's cutout design works even with 2mm tooling somehow and it can retain the corners. Maybe it is better unless the desing costs up too much?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65747.0

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Qg7gBjq.jpg)

But in NUDEcnc drawing, inside corner radius is 0,6mm, not 1mm (as with 2mm bit). But my manufacturer can only offer 1mm radius bit; Its too expensive to test it, so kinda need your approval/thoughts.