geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: itlnstln on Fri, 16 April 2010, 09:19:20
-
Check it (http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/15/ask-engadget-best-chiclet-keyboard-for-desktop-use/).
-
Now all I have to do is make a chiclet HHKB clone and I can rule the world!
-
If only they had made a buckling-spring version of the original IBM PCjr keyboard! Keyboard overlays might have become fashionable!
But, alas, that was not to be... naturally, the PCjr had to be made as affordably as possible, and that meant a membrane keyboard.
-
Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please no!!! Articles on advising chiclets!!!!!!!!??????? Seriously, this must stop now!
Next from Engadget: "I want to be a total douche, can you give me some pointers?"
-
I contributed:
didjamatic Posted Apr 16th 2010 5:10PMNEUTRAL
Here is your answer: Rub the "L" off your forehead and get a proper mechanical keyboard instead of a Chiclet POS. Get an IBM Model M, Filco, Realforce or even a Das but for heavens sake, act like you've got a pair.
-
Now all I have to do is make a chiclet HHKB clone and I can rule the world!
Aiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
(http://hbfs.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/what-the-happy-hacking-keyboard-should-have-been/)
-
Lol... I saw that article while browsing Engadget and only made it a few comments in before I hit the back button feeling that much more disappointed in the human race. I can see using these things in netbooks, but why oh why do people want to use such an inferior type of keyboard with a desktop? I can only hypothesize that they're all two finger typists who need to look at the keyboard to actually get something on the screen, in which case it doesn't matter what they type on, and it instead becomes an aesthetic choice.
Ah well, I guess it's only a matter of time before we start seeing requests on what the best capacitive glass keyboard slab is. As impractical as those designs are, they look stylistically right up Apple's alley. I'd be surprised if they didn't make one within the next 5 years. Combine that with the fact that virtually whatever Apple makes these days becomes irrationally popular, and we're set for the next keyboard fad.
-
I contributed:
didjamatic Posted Apr 16th 2010 5:10PMNEUTRAL
Here is your answer: Rub the "L" off your forehead and get a proper mechanical keyboard instead of a Chiclet POS. Get an IBM Model M, Filco, Realforce or even a Das but for heavens sake, act like you've got a pair.
Now that's agreeable.
Props for speaking out, even if your wisdom will fall on very, very dumb ears.
-
I'd suggest that most users these days are too young to know about, or even have used old, robust hardware. If you're born into mediocrity you accept it as the norm. The metrosexual man has seemingly conquered the Western world. This is why other countries hate us; not because we have "freedom" (yeah, right) but because we're pansies obsessed with shiny, slim-line crap. I'm not a chauvinist at all, but this trend makes me cringe.
-
Meh, I'd say people know about quality gear - or at least have heard about it, but they are too set on being trendy to care. Take Thinkpads for instance. They're looked down upon by a large demographic for being outdated style wise, despite being some of the most solid, utilitarian laptops on the market.
The audio market runs much the same way; people were(/are) going around with apple earbuds just to look cool, despite the fact that they're trash. Then there's the people who go get BOSE stuff or Monster Cable crap, even though there is tons of information out there on how said stuff is overpriced, hyped up mediocrity.
People are sheep. It's far more important to look good in front of their peers than it is for them to have better quality products. This is a fault that almost everybody has - it's just a matter of to what extent you're plagued by it.
-
People are sheep. It's far more important to look good in front of their peers than it is for them to have better quality products.
This is why I am so glad to be an antisocial git. :evil:
-
I wonder what an Apple-Tard would say if I walked up to them with a Sony mp3 player, my huge JVC headphones, a Lenovo Thinkpad under my arm, with a Cherry ML keyboard slung over my back, wearing a T-shirt with an obscure Linux reference on it, and my non-hip goatee thoroughly non-trendily-mussed.
We'd probably annihilate on the spot.
-
I wonder what an Apple-Tard would say if I walked up to them with a Sony mp3 player, my huge JVC headphones, a Lenovo Thinkpad under my arm, with a Cherry ML keyboard slung over my back, wearing a T-shirt with an obscure Linux reference on it, and my non-hip goatee thoroughly non-trendily-mussed.
We'd probably annihilate on the spot.
Hmmm.
Does a Creative MP3 with Sony headphones and a Dell laptop with a Model M in a box count if my goatee is trimmed and neat?
-
If we're talking about the need to be trendy at all costs type... They wouldn't say anything to you. That'd run the risk of making them seem less cool if their friends spotted them when they were talking to you.
If we're talking about the apple can do no wrong and I worship Steve Job's wardrobe type, then they'd probably try and convert you by showing you how much better your life would be if you followed the path of Apple.
Honestly though, the majority of people don't fall on either extreme, and they would probably regard you rather normally. Just the same, they themselves wouldn't be caught dead going around with the same getup.
-
...because they're pricks.
-
Oh, and the laptop would either have Debian on it, or else Windows with the volume on startup turned *way* up so everyone within fifty feet can hear the Windows startup music.
Hmmm.
Does a Creative MP3 with Sony headphones and a Dell laptop with a Model M in a box count if my goatee is trimmed and neat?
I dunno, Creative is sort of in the same class as Monster Cable, only slightly less trendy, but still way overpriced. I should know, I bought a Creative sound card for $100 that is inferior to some $70 Asus sound cards.
As long as the goatee is non-hip, it should be ok. ;) I'm not sure which is more Geeky; carrying a Model M in a box, or having a Cherry over the shoulder.
What about a Model over the shoulder? :D
-
You'd lose the keycaps :(
Creative, trendy? Where the hell do you live? North America, I think not.
Superior products by far, however.
The goatee I'm afraid might be hip in a sense, but the hair isn't quite so.
-
Eh, I wouldn't rank Creative in the same league as Monster Cable. While I have plenty of gripes with Creative, they're not charging 10x (conservative estimate by far) what a similar quality product goes for like Monster. Lumping a company with Monster is like immediately throwing it at the absolute bottom of the integrity barrel. In fact, I'm pretty sure Monster went through the bottom of the barrel and is roasting somewhere near the earth's core currently.
As far as quality and Creative go (at least sound card wise), you're best looking at their E-MU professional line, and not the Soundblaster line. Ever since they killed off the Elite Pro, the Soundblaster line has been the very definition of mediocre. You know a product is high on the BS & hype-o-meter when it's endorsed by Fatal1ty.
-
Fatal1ty, ugh.
Yeah, I have the XtremeGamer. Not terrible, but way overpriced. This is evidenced by the fact that people on OCN have trouble selling them used for more than $25.
-
Fatality - that Wendell guy? What a dork. Even as a kid i'd never have seen him as a role model to aspire to. Creative stopped being cool since the driver support debacle, I think. Haven't seen anyone with one of their MP3 players for years. Those that I see in stores are mostly in the bargain bin. Most people seem to use their phones for playing MP3s, anyway.
-
Here's what I call good quality sound equipment (Minus the 78).
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9198&stc=1&d=1271512318)
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9199&stc=1&d=1271512738)
This screen shot basically covers my opinion of Monster Cable. They're a bunch of lousy retards who rip people off so they can sue little mom-and-pop mini golf courses.
-
When we got our new TV, my parents decided to get a Monster Cable SCART lead which cost some obscene amount of money. I can't remember how much exactly, but given that our current set up uses HDMI, it's one of the reasons I refuse to let them buy anything technical.
-
I was just at a local supermarket-sized drug store that has a computer department. One of their less expensive keyboards was a slim keyboard with keys resembling Adams Brands ChicletsŪ in shape... indeed designed in homage to the current Macintosh keyboards. So this is not some horrible fantasy. But it's hardly surprising. Whatever Apple does gets imitated... whether it's innovative, like the GUI, or silly like transparent casings available in different colors. (Still, the trendiness of the iMac did buy Apple some vitally needed time, and the Intel Mac seems to be working well; they are back on the radar screen, sort of.)
-
But it's hardly surprising. Whatever Apple does gets imitated... whether it's innovative, like the GUI, or silly like transparent casings available in different colors. (Still, the trendiness of the iMac did buy Apple some vitally needed time, and the Intel Mac seems to be working well; they are back on the radar screen, sort of.)
It's not surprising for tiny manufacturers to resort to this trick. It's a pretty common marketing tactic when you're the tiny company without the resources to compete against the big ones. You figure that the big guys did the research into what people find appealing and you follow in their wake.
For several years, the upstart video rental company, Hollywood Video simply opened one of their video chain stores a few blocks away from a Blockbuster video here in the US. Wikipedia says that they were up in Canada as Movie Gallery, but I don't know if they continued their tactic of trailing Blockbuster everywhere. Hollywood Video was so consistent with their game of tagalong that if I was in a new town and I saw a Blockbuster or Hollywood, I'd look for the other one and you usually didn't have to look farther than a couple of blocks.
Blockbuster did the market research and decided the locale could support a movie rental place. Hollywood Video skipped the marketing research costs and found a spot nearby.
-
It's not surprising for tiny manufacturers to resort to this trick. It's a pretty common marketing tactic when you're the tiny company without the resources to compete against the big ones.
Yeah, tiny companies who are unable to do their own development just have no choice but copy (http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/multimedia_STRAIT_Corded_Keyboard.htm) all kinds (http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/multimedia_EASYHUB_Corded_MultiMedia_Keyboard.htm) of crap (http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/multimedia_INFINITY_Corded_MultiMedia_Keyboard.htm).
-
Yeah, tiny companies who are unable to do their own development just have no choice
...but big companies that almost established the computer keyboard industry, what's their excuse?
Come to think of it, though, the Apple style of keyboard is so popular that I can't really blame bigger companies for tagging along. One might as well criticize the keyboard companies for all copying IBM and going with cylinder keytops instead of spherical keytops.
-
...but big companies that almost established the computer keyboard industry, what's their excuse?
Come to think of it, though, the Apple style of keyboard is so popular that I can't really blame bigger companies for tagging along. One might as well criticize the keyboard companies for all copying IBM and going with cylinder keytops instead of spherical keytops.
You know, I was just going to make a similar point myself. I think a lot of us focus the direction of blame or credit to Apple too much. If they were copied universally, how come cheap PCs weren't shipping with one button mice? Nobody copied Apple keyboards before the chiclet keyboards and even then, those keyboards were out for two years before they started popping up everywhere. That's not a terribly strong correlation of cause and effect. It shows influence, but it's a bit much to say it's a knee jerk effect.
For a number of years every video game controller differed quite noticeably from others with the only core resemblance being that you had a stick and at least one button. Now it seems like they're all shaped like Sony "handlebar" controllers with the exception of the Wii.
If you make something that works or that people seem to like, you're going to be copied because quite frankly I don't think anyone truly knows what really will sell or be practical in real world use. There are no conceptual failures.
For the most part, it's a big circular game of tag along.
Anyway, on a somewhat different note... remember when you had to be careful about which IBM PC clone you got because there were some brands out there that were almost always lemons? A handful of brands were trusted to be as good as the "real thing" or even better, but everything else carried a degree of risk.
-
I just realized I failed earlier.
I read "model over the shoulder" as "Model M over the shoulder".
-
Yeah, tiny companies who are unable to do their own development just have no choice but copy (http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/multimedia_STRAIT_Corded_Keyboard.htm) all kinds (http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/multimedia_EASYHUB_Corded_MultiMedia_Keyboard.htm) of crap (http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/multimedia_INFINITY_Corded_MultiMedia_Keyboard.htm).
Hmmm... Razer (http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.169415000/categoryId.35156900), Logitech (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/4740), and Apple. I guess Cherry wanted to cover ALL the bases. Where's the Microsoft keyboard clone?
-
I just realized I failed earlier.
I read "model over the shoulder" as "Model M over the shoulder".
That's what was meant. ;p
-
Hmmm... Razer (http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.169415000/categoryId.35156900), Logitech (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/4740), and Apple. I guess Cherry wanted to cover ALL the bases. Where's the Microsoft keyboard clone?
If I knew what the Microsoft keyboard looks like, I could most likely show you the Cherry clone.
Seriously, I don't blame Cherry for making all kinds of crap for the mass market and getting their inspiration from wherever they find it. I blame them for not doing anything else anymore. I blame them for not doing anything better. The only thing that sets Cherry apart from all the Chinese crap manufactors nowadays is the price.
-
I highly doubt that they do much more than rebranding these "clone" boards. It gets scary when the crap invades their lineup of "serious" products (http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/eHealth_eHealth_Tastatur_G87-1504.htm) though. People already thought expensive specialty G83s were a ripoff.
-
I highly doubt that they do much more than rebranding these "clone" boards.
Hm, got to check where they're made when I'm at an electronics market next time.
It gets scary when the crap invades their lineup of "serious" products (http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/eHealth_eHealth_Tastatur_G87-1504.htm) though.
Hey, it's mechanical! Datasheet says it has a mechanical cardreader. Whatever that may be.
People already thought expensive specialty G83s were a ripoff.
I've been wondering anyway why Cherry has such a good brand reputation in Germany. Can't come from MX boards - nobody knows these. Their only widespread boards are G83s and G81s, which feel both terrible. I doubt many people even know it's a German company, so brand patriotism is unlikely too. I'm lost here.
-
Why do people in the US like Logitech keyboards?
Answer: they aren't Microsoft.
-
Why do people in the US like Logitech keyboards?
I'd think it has something to do with them being widely available and perhaps the not-Microsoft thing has something to do with it too. This is just me, but I always felt uneasy about buying peripherals from a company that is mostly known for an OS... not that there's anything wrong with that, but I just didn't have a lot to compare a Microsoft peripheral to until I owned one.
I actually have a Logitech keyboard and a Microsoft Keyboard and a Logitech mouse. A lot of people like Logitech mice and trackballs so there's some comfort factor in picking up one of their keyboards. My first Logitech keyboard was one I liked a lot so I got one of their mice, which I hated and ever since then I haven't been quite so fond of Logitech, especially after I also hated the next Logitech keyboard I bought.
My experience with Microsoft keyboards went the same way. I bought one that I really liked, but it was their "ergo" version and the split actually caused discomfort instead of the other way around so I returned it and gladly got another Microsoft keyboard. I was fond of that board for 1 month until the keys started jamming and the rubber started to stiffen prematurely. Now I plan to avoid Microsoft keyboards too.
The average person goes to the electronics store and sees 50 different keyboards and is totally overwhelmed. He or she has no idea what to look for and my guess is that the person simplifies the decision by picking what appears to be a known quantity.
-
Most shops here will have keyboards from Microsoft, Logitech, and a handful of obscure makers. You'd need a really good reason not to go for Logitech or MS. Unless saving a few pounds is the absolute highest priority.
I'm unaware of any cheap + obscure brands that stand out from the crowd in terms of quality, so as mediocre as Logitech can be, they are often the best choice from the limited options. I've always found them to work properly and be reliable. And I think they are good at giving the market what it demands. It's just a shame the market demands so little.
-
Most shops here will have keyboards from Microsoft, Logitech, and a handful of obscure makers. You'd need a really good reason not to go for Logitech or MS. Unless saving a few pounds is the absolute highest priority.
I'm unaware of any cheap + obscure brands that stand out from the crowd in terms of quality, so as mediocre as Logitech can be, they are often the best choice from the limited options. I've always found them to work properly and be reliable. And I think they are good at giving the market what it demands. It's just a shame the market demands so little.
My store actually only sells Microsoft and Logitech. It is the only kind of keyboards our supplier have in storage. A positive thing for the buyer would be for Logitech and Microsoft to send out demo keyboards so people could try typing on them. Some of the Logitech cases have a possibility to open up without breaching the seal but you can only see how it looks, not feel how it feels, Microsoft doesn't have this at all.