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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: phototristan on Mon, 19 April 2010, 15:27:41

Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 19 April 2010, 15:27:41: I just picked up a Model M Space Saver (yeah!) but it's scungy as heck under the keys. I feel like I may need a HASMAT suit to clean it!

Here's a pic:

(http://img.skitch.com/20100419-1u9hhm97e247gxhsu5hm345pdg.jpg)

What are is the best procedure to clean this thing? Is it just a matter of removing the keys and going at it? Or are there some specific steps I should do?

I do have a keycap puller so at least I can remove the keys easily but I don't know where to begin to attack this grunge...
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Mon, 19 April 2010, 15:33:14: I recommend getting a 5.5mm nut driver from clickykeyboards and opening it up. Run the casing through the dishwasher, soak the keys in either soapy water or isopropyl alcohol, and gently clean the plate and PCBs with isopropyl alcohol as well, at least 70%.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 19 April 2010, 15:48:22: Quote from: Phaedrus2129;173510
I recommend getting a 5.5mm nut driver from clickykeyboards and opening it up. Run the casing through the dishwasher, soak the keys in either soapy water or isopropyl alcohol, and gently clean the plate and PCBs with isopropyl alcohol as well, at least 70%.

Thanks. The casing (at least the outside) actually looks pretty decent. The majority of the grunge is on the plate (under the keys). I guess I will have to remove all the keys and clean that by hand? Is that the best way?
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Mon, 19 April 2010, 15:53:00: To my knowledge, yes.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 19 April 2010, 15:59:11: Quote from: Phaedrus2129;173517
To my knowledge, yes.

Thanks. Sounds like I've got my work cut out for me. ;)
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 April 2010, 16:03:43: Now here's an area where the Model F has a definite advantage - break it down, throw the barrels into a basin of water and wipe down the upper assembly with a cloth. Mine was so dirty when I got it that I assumed that the insides were meant to be black, I was rather shocked to see the OD green when I gave it a good wash...
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 19 April 2010, 16:19:53: Quote from: ripster;173524
That's the downside to the minis. Needed better drainage channels. I'd say based on my Boscom experiments (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=112583&postcount=75) and the "water level mark" on the keys yours got the full Coke can.

That is gonna take more than alchohol.

The scunge lifts right out with a wet Q-Tip so I don't think it was Coke as it's not sticky. Maybe coffee at some point or something but mostly, it's a whole lot of lint, hair and crumbs.

BTW, are Q-Tips the best thing to use? I feel like they may scuff up the plate.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: skcheng on Mon, 19 April 2010, 16:25:20: Now that's nasty!! :-))

Take the unit apart. I cleaned all of my caps in a large heated ultrasonic with a denture cleaning tablet. Or you can place them in a fine washables "net" and stick them in your dishwasher. Yours are so filthy, you'll probably need to hand scrub them too.

Or.....you could spring $20 and buy an entirely new set of 2-piece (1-piece not available anymore) caps from Chuck at Unicomp. Mention to him to print "Space Saving" caps so that he adds the extra numpad print.

The case can be scrubbed with whatever you have. If you want to protect the label, you'll have to keep that dry. I used a combination of orange solvent and Simple Green and Armor All and it will look nicer than new. Seriously. My "NIB" unit was somewhat dusty and not altogether spotless. But I'm really anal.....

Remove all of the loose/broken rivets unless you want to perform a nuts/bolts mod. Double epoxy the broken rivets. I air abrade to clean the surface and a small amount of epoxy is sufficient. And then the hardest part....cleaning out the frame. I used various toothbrushes and denture brushes, cue tips, and several paint brushes dipped in alcohol and other cleaners. Takes a while......

It's worth the effort to clean up the "King". And I know you like the Model M since I watched your YouTube vid before I ever even joined Geekhack.

Let me know if you need anything.......

skc
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: didjamatic on Mon, 19 April 2010, 16:27:48: Dawn takes grease out of your way, often a soak in dawn/water does it for removables.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: skcheng on Mon, 19 April 2010, 16:35:32: Quote from: ripster;173542
Wait a sec, Chuck prints these keys you've been getting on demand??? Be sure to keep working on that Unicomp key post - this is getting interesting.

Yup, but I really had to pull out the charm and sweet talk him into doing it ;-))

Have you looked closely at your blue key set??
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Mon, 19 April 2010, 16:49:01: Quote from: ripster;173524
I'd say based on my Boscom experiments (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=112583&postcount=75) and the "water level mark" on the keys yours got the full Coke can.

I'd say based on the water level mark, this one spent quite some time out in the wilderness and was filled with rain water. The OP will probably have to open up the inner assembly in order to get the mud out of the membrane.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 19 April 2010, 16:49:40: Quote from: skcheng;173539
Now that's nasty!! :-))

skc

Yes, I can't imagine where all this lint and hair came from. It *is* almost like this thing was used outside or something. I also found some confetti in there so someone had a party at some point ;)

BTW, do the bucking springs ever break and just stop working? Or are they so sturdy that their MTBF is greater than a human could ever encounter?

The number keys feel slightly more tactile than the letter keys so I bet this thing is pretty worn, but it's still quite tactile so that doesn't bother me.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Mon, 19 April 2010, 16:54:36: Buckling springs wear out and lose some of their tactile feel over time, and every once in a while one will go bad. I'd say a total spring-replacement every 10-20 years is prudent. They actually don't last as long as many other mechanical keyswitches, though they do have advantages.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 19 April 2010, 16:59:44: Quote from: Phaedrus2129;173548
Buckling springs wear out and lose some of their tactile feel over time, and every once in a while one will go bad. I'd say a total spring-replacement every 10-20 years is prudent. They actually don't last as long as many other mechanical keyswitches, though they do have advantages.

How does one replace the springs and where do you get 'em? Is that easy to do?
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 April 2010, 17:09:22: Depends on how you define 'last'. Do you mean before failure, or before it becomes uncomfortable to type on? Either way, they're at worst the same as other switches, as anyone whose ever used a well loved Alps keyboard can testify. And there are very few Model M failures, unless something nasty has happened to it.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: skcheng on Mon, 19 April 2010, 17:11:04: Quote from: phototristan;173549
How does one replace the springs and where do you get 'em? Is that easy to do?

You need to chisel off the rivets in order to separate the frame from the metal plate in order to replace springs. Not difficult, but not exactly easy either.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 19 April 2010, 17:17:30: Quote from: skcheng;173555
You need to chisel off the rivets in order to separate the frame from the metal plate in order to replace springs. Not difficult, but not exactly easy either.

Ah, yeah, sounds like it may not be worth the effort over finding and storing a backup board for whenever it's needed.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 19 April 2010, 23:58:38: Well that was fun. Can I have my 2.5 hours back? :)

Got the plate cleaned up to a point acceptable to me. Soaked all keys in dishwash soap and warm water and wiped each one with a microfiber cloth, then dried each one with compressed air. Good thing I have one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Metro-Vacuum-ED500-500-Watt-Electric/dp/B001J4ZOAW/?tag=tt-20

It came in handy, almost like having a shop air compressor.

The board almost feels like a brand new keyboard now!
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Tue, 20 April 2010, 00:17:30: Quote from: ripster;173651
Great news! Probably all that grunge under the keys caused the sliders to stick.

Welcome to the IBM Mini club!

Also the bed of lint under there actually dampened some of the clicky sound. Yes, there was that much under there!

Here's a pic after cleaning as I was re-installing the keys:

(http://img.skitch.com/20100420-jdqjhxtank21bcy3sfmaca1mku.jpg)

I probably scratched the plate a bit doing the cleaning but you can't really tell or notice it once all the keys are on.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 20 April 2010, 03:56:40: Quote from: Phaedrus2129;173650
I mean key-feel-wise, compared to Cherry MX switches, from what I've hard.

Well, if there are any people around here with 25 year old Cherry Blue keyboards, then maybe I'd accept that. However, if Cherries are anything like Alps, I seriously doubt that their longevity is better than a buckling spring... All those little parts scraping off eachother isn't good for avoiding wear...
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: skcheng on Tue, 20 April 2010, 07:40:34: Quote from: phototristan;173657
Also the bed of lint under there actually dampened some of the clicky sound. Yes, there was that much under there!

Here's a pic after cleaning as I was re-installing the keys:

Show Image
(http://img.skitch.com/20100420-jdqjhxtank21bcy3sfmaca1mku.jpg)

I probably scratched the plate a bit doing the cleaning but you can't really tell or notice it once all the keys are on.

Nice job!! Did you notice how many broken rivets you had?? You can repair those by cleaning the joint with some solvent or air abrasion and using two part epoxy. Or you can chisel off the rivets and invest another 2 hours for the nuts/bolts mod. Well worth the effort imho.

I'm getting ready to do my 2nd and 3rd ....
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 20 April 2010, 09:34:31: I'd be rather worried about hot glue seeping in and damaging the membrane. Depends on how well it is done I guess.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 20 April 2010, 11:07:36: I strongly advise replacing rivets as they blow rather than dis-assemble a unit to replace all at once. I'm apparently not equipped with sufficient patience and coordination to re-assemble a totally dis-assembled Model M.

The pristine plastic in your 'After' photograph is enviable. Well done, phototristan.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 20 April 2010, 20:20:42: I do think you're on target. I'm giving up on the cracked 3-times black plastic #1. I have another cracked 1-time plastic from another Model M fatality. It should be easier.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Wed, 21 April 2010, 09:12:40: What are the symptoms of broken rivets? Does it effect the feel when typing or anything?
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Wed, 21 April 2010, 09:37:16: Quote from: ripster;174076
At it's worst some keys just don't work. Before that though it just feels a bit less snappy. What happens though is once one cracks (almost always at an edge) it just starts marching along the rest of the board over time.

Thanks. I've never heard of someone picking a an old Model M up at a thrift or surplus shop and complaining that keys didn't work or anything like that. So it seems like even if there are cracked rivets, the board can be used for years and years without someone even noticing anything wrong?
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 21 April 2010, 10:47:21: I can't believe how dirty that was. I've just cleaned under the keys of my Nostromo N52 for the first time ever. I've used it several hours a day for several years. I was shocked to find that ... it was pretty clean. Nothing but some dust bunnies that could be flicked out with a cotton bud.

Makes you wonder about some people's habits that they can get a board that dirty.
Title: Best proceedure for cleaning a Model M?
Post by: phototristan on Wed, 21 April 2010, 11:09:05: Quote from: Rajagra;174111
I can't believe how dirty that was. I've just cleaned under the keys of my Nostromo N52 for the first time ever. I've used it several hours a day for several years. I was shocked to find that ... it was pretty clean. Nothing but some dust bunnies that could be flicked out with a cotton bud.

Makes you wonder about some people's habits that they can get a board that dirty.

I agree. I have no idea where this thing was used. Strange that there really was a lot of lint/fine hair under the keys. I got the impression it could have been used in a pet grooming shop or clothing manufacturer or something like that.