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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 23 April 2010, 16:32:16

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 23 April 2010, 16:32:16

Okay so I got a commodore 64 from my relatives who had it without me even knowing it.
I plugged an RCA cable into the TV and back into the brown RCA C64 port, but whenever I turn the C64 on, the power light does come on, but the TV just remains saying "no signal".

Is the problem the C64 itself, or because I'm using RCA?
Would I need to get these odd 5-pin cables:
(http://www.lemon64.com/manual/manual/images/setting_up_3_5.gif)

I wish it was easy as the 5150.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 23 April 2010, 16:38:04

Do you need to set the TV up so it knows it's a composite signal?
Or... could it be an RF output, in which case you'd need to tune the channel in?

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: Nonmouse on Fri, 23 April 2010, 16:38:07

You need to get a TV old enough to have the screws for the antenna on the back, then get one of the TV/Computer (or TV/Game) switches with an RCA, screws for an antenna, and spades to hook up to the TV.  *nods*

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 23 April 2010, 17:26:55

Hmm. Test the RCA directly into a RCA composite video input. My SX64 and my friends' C64 all had composite out.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: quadibloc on Fri, 23 April 2010, 17:52:41

Quote from: EverythingIBM;175156

Is the problem the C64 itself, or because I'm using RCA?
Would I need to get these odd 5-pin cables:

Unlike a VIC-20, the Commodore 64 had its own internal RF modulator. You would normally connect the RCA cable to a box of the type used to connect old-style video games to a TV set. Note that you need a different such adapter if the set has a cable input (75 ohm impedance) instead of an antenna input (300 ohm impedance).

The Commodore 64 provided an unusual composite video output. If you use the DIN connector, you could adapt it to an S-Video connector, because the C-64 provides a separate monochrome and color signal for a sharper picture on the monitors made for it.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 23 April 2010, 18:01:15

Quote from: quadibloc;175214

Unlike a VIC-20, the Commodore 64 had its own internal RF modulator. You would normally connect the RCA cable to a box of the type used to connect old-style video games to a TV set. Note that you need a different such adapter if the set has a cable input (75 ohm impedance) instead of an antenna input (300 ohm impedance).

The Commodore 64 provided an unusual composite video output. If you use the DIN connector, you could adapt it to an S-Video connector, because the C-64 provides a separate monochrome and color signal for a sharper picture on the monitors made for it.

I hate proprietary...

Well, I'm going to have to search around for some adapters, cables, and other stuff.

I guess S-Video is the route then. Although if I use S-Video; how do I get the audio? It's so confusing...

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: TexasFlood on Fri, 23 April 2010, 22:34:55

Quote from: EverythingIBM;175156

Okay so I got a commodore 64 from my relatives who had it without me even knowing it.
I plugged an RCA cable into the TV and back into the brown RCA C64 port, but whenever I turn the C64 on, the power light does come on, but the TV just remains saying "no signal".

Is the problem the C64 itself, or because I'm using RCA?
Would I need to get these odd 5-pin cables:

Show Image

(http://www.lemon64.com/manual/manual/images/setting_up_3_5.gif)

I wish it was easy as the 5150.

Looking at the back of the C64:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/C64_Interfaces.jpg)
The single RCA jack there is an RF modulated signa which would typically be connected, back in the day, to an "antenna switchbox" that you'd screw 300 Ohm antenna leads to, and it had a 300 Ohm antenna lead that you could connect to the TV Antenna output, finally you'd plug a cheapie male/male RCA cable into the box and then switchbox had a slider switch to switch between the C64 and TV antenna.

If you don't want a modulated signal, you have to use the "Audio/Video" connector, the 8 pin DIN next to the RCA jack, pinout looks like this:
(http://radagast.bglug.ca/C64_svideo/c64_av_connector.gif)
S-Video sounds like a good idea, here are a couple of pages I googled up on building your own:
"Commodore 64 S-Video Cable" (http://radagast.bglug.ca/C64_svideo/C64_Svideo.html) and "The Commodore S-Video converter" (http://sta.c64.org/cbmsvideoc.html)

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 23 April 2010, 23:24:36

When I was taking off the cover, I broke a retainer tab; oops! That old plastic bends and scratches like butter. Very bad cover system I must say. I'm certainly not the first, or last, individual to break a C64 tab. Cover still fits on fine though. It was the far right tiny one.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 24 April 2010, 08:28:31

The plastic on the front of my Gateway2000 computer has a similar problem. It breaks really easily and yellowed much faster than the rest of the computer.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: TexasFlood on Sat, 24 April 2010, 08:51:25

Quote from: EverythingIBM;175320

When I was taking off the cover, I broke a retainer tab; oops! That old plastic bends and scratches like butter. Very bad cover system I must say. I'm certainly not the first, or last, individual to break a C64 tab. Cover still fits on fine though. It was the far right tiny one.

Could probably reattach it with some plastic epoxy if you really wanted to but if it still fits on maybe not an issue.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 24 April 2010, 14:59:21

Quote from: TexasFlood;175408

Could probably reattach it with some plastic epoxy if you really wanted to but if it still fits on maybe not an issue.

Well I can lift up the edge where the tab broke to a degree; but I don't care about cosmetics; I only care about the SID Chip.
It's an ugly little thing anyhow. Although I like the plastic stripes at the top, very 300PLish.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: TexasFlood on Sat, 24 April 2010, 17:20:02

Quote from: EverythingIBM;175512

Well I can lift up the edge where the tab broke to a degree; but I don't care about cosmetics; I only care about the SID Chip.
It's an ugly little thing anyhow. Although I like the plastic stripes at the top, very 300PLish.

Can always get inspired with some paint and purty it up, :becky:

(http://8bitcollective.com/items/images/C64gunship.jpg)
(http://pici.se/pictures/ntTnydgDk.jpg)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1275/850345806_ee76d45c66.jpg)

Showing for the color but clearly these mods start to get more extensive.

(http://8bitcollective.com/items/images/c64%20102309.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NPPd75m-aBY/SsKJz_ATfDI/AAAAAAAAALs/_yiTKNdj9P8/s1600/P8252478.JPG)

This one is a 64C, but hey, I like blue.

(http://home.ica.net/~leifb/commodore/blue64/Img0725.jpg)

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: TexasFlood on Sat, 24 April 2010, 17:56:57

I went & looked at the original posts (http://www.419eater.com/html/john_boko.htm) that image is from.  Some pretty impressive detail work.

Gotta watch out for mice in wooden C64s though, :rofl:

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9441&stc=1&d=1272164055)

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 24 April 2010, 18:00:48

Quote from: TexasFlood;175595

I went & looked at the original posts (http://www.419eater.com/html/john_boko.htm) that image is from.  Some pretty impressive detail work.

Gotta watch out for mice in wooden C64s though, :rofl:

Show Image

(http://www.419eater.com/images/akinkwu29.jpg)

I think it's ugly, but at the same time it screams vintage: I like that.

And don't you mean termites?

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: TexasFlood on Sat, 24 April 2010, 18:03:53

Quote from: EverythingIBM;175598

I think it's ugly, but at the same time it screams vintage: I like that.

And don't you mean termites?

Ha! Termites as well, yes.

C64s aren't pretty, but I think this one looks nice, little blue lipstick on that pig.

(http://8bitcollective.com/items/images/C64gunship.jpg)

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 24 April 2010, 18:11:22

Quote from: TexasFlood;175599

Ha! Termites as well, yes.

C64s aren't pretty, but I think this one looks nice, little blue lipstick on that pig.

Show Image

(http://8bitcollective.com/items/images/C64gunship.jpg)

This pig comes with the lipstick pre-applied:
(http://materialdesigns.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/apple-g3-ad.jpg)

The best thing about the C64, I think anyways, is the SID CHIP. It's so awesomely crazy. Before then, you just had a pathetic mono-beeping internal speaker like the 5150.
EDIT: Did you ever hear "Iron Lord" on the 5150 speaker? BLAH! The SID chip is so much more superior.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 26 April 2010, 07:10:27

Quote from: TexasFlood;175599

Ha! Termites as well, yes.

C64s aren't pretty, but I think this one looks nice, little blue lipstick on that pig.

Show Image

(http://8bitcollective.com/items/images/C64gunship.jpg)

I love that color scheme.  That shade of blue is awesome.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: elservo on Wed, 28 April 2010, 14:28:02

What kind of switches are in the C64, anyway?

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 28 April 2010, 19:56:59

On the SX 64, they are spring-loaded sleeves over membrane.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9537&stc=1&d=1272502573)

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: kishy on Wed, 28 April 2010, 20:04:22

I spy M13, and normal Model M SDL cable.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 28 April 2010, 20:33:55

Yah. I just dropped the SX64 board onto my workspace.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9538&stc=1&d=1272504788)

Damn, but it's great to have my camera back from its vacation.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: Half-Saint on Thu, 29 April 2010, 05:52:01

Quote from: ricercar;177139

Yah. I just dropped the SX64 board onto my workspace.

Damn, but it's great to have my camera back from its vacation.

I'm gonna have to show this to my gf as proof that my desk is not cluttered!

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 29 April 2010, 07:27:38

Nice stickers on your lappy.

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 29 April 2010, 18:22:15

I'm looking at the SX64 and my erroneous HHKB Lite 2 and thinking I may like this form factor after all. This may actually compel me to learn touch typing after all.

Is the HHKB Lite 2 the same layout as the mechanical HHKB boards? It does have the DIP switch...

Title: Commodore 64 powers on, no TV signal
Post by: Rajagra on Thu, 29 April 2010, 22:53:13

Quote from: ricercar;177413

Is the HHKB Lite 2 the same layout as the mechanical HHKB boards?

http://www.pfusystems.com/hhkeyboard/leaflet/hairetu.html (http://www.pfusystems.com/hhkeyboard/leaflet/hairetu.html)
The Lite layout is a superset of the Pro layout. Odd that, when you think about it. The Lite has all the Pro keys plus an extra Fn key on the left, plus arrow keys.

I'm not sure that makes it the better layout. Sometimes less is more. The benefit of one over the other will be situational.

One thing you can do on the Lite is swap the Alt and Meta key caps around to match your chosen DIP switch settings.