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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Great Hierophant on Sat, 24 April 2010, 11:30:26
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I would like to get some opinions about some common keyboard layout differences or preferences: I am using as my base layout the Model M.
1. L-shaped Enter v. Short Enter
Which do you prefer:
Horizontal Enter (Model M)
"L-shaped" Enter (Model F AT)
Subquestion: If you like the "L-shaped" Enter, where should the \ go?
To the left of the Backspace key? (Model F AT)
To the left of the R Shift key, shortening that key (Northgate Omnikey)
Between the R Alt and Ctrl keys (Empty space on Model Ms)
Somewhere else?
2. Spacebar Size
Which sized Spacebar is best:
Model F (~9.5 alphabet keys long)
101-Model M (~7 keys long)
104-Model M (~5.5 keys long) (Unicomp Customizer)?
Something else?
3. Caps Lock & R Ctrl & R Alt
What is your prefered placement of these keys on the left side of the keyboard:
Caps Lock (Model M)
Shift
Ctrl Alt
Ctrl
Shift
Caps Lock Alt
Ctrl (Model F inspired)
Shift
Alt Caps Lock
4. Large Numeric + vs. + =
Do you prefer the double sized + on the numeric keypad (Model M), or do you prefer it broken up into normal sized + and = (Northgate Omnikeys)?
5. Esc Position
Should the Esc be:
Left of F1 (Model M)
Above Tab (Model F PC)
6. Function Keys Top vs. Side
Should the Function Keys be:
Above the Keyboard? (Model M)
To the Left of the Keyboard (Model F)
Subquestion: How should the keys be arranged:
F11 F12 (Function Key Row) (Northgate Omnikey Ultra)
F1 F2
. . .
F9 F10 (Spacebar Row)
F1 F2 (Function Key Row)
F3 F4
. . .
F11 F12 (Spacebar Row)
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1: I like either horizontal bar or backwards gamma but I absolutely hate the single key backspace and large backwards L combination, it's like a torture device. The single key backspace on the Japanese layout is ok though.
2: Doesn't matter, but the XT one is friggin huge. I do fine with the 3-key wide one on my Sony U3. On a normal KB as long as I can hit my thumb below the V key I am fine.
3: I hate craps lock, it can leave my KB forever. Otherwise I like the normal layout just fine (with a control in place of craps lock)
4: I'm used to the big keys but there should be another key where 0 is though.
5: Model M style (I use the key above tab a lot in the Canadian French layout)
6: Doesn't matter to me, I'm used to them being on the left (XT, sun keys) the top or the right (commodore). I really hate how they are laid out on the cherry keyboard I have though (one with the touchpad) it confuses the hell out of me.
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1. I like a horizontal enter key, though that may be because that's all I've ever used.
2. Although I own a 101 key Model M, I would prefer to have a 5.5 key spacebar and a super key so that I could remap it to hyper.
3. I have my own system, mostly designed for Emacs. It does away with caps lock entirely and assumes a super key to remap, which I do not have, but it is my ideal system.
Alt
Ctrl
Shift
Tab Hyper Super
4. I don't use the numpad, but I think I'd prefer a large plus key.
5. I'd like the escape next to the number keys if I could find a reasonable place for `/~, both of which I use frequently.
6. I would do away with the funtion keys altogether, but if they had to be on the keyboard I'd prefer them above so they don't take space away from the mouse.
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Perhaps it's mostly what you "grew up" with, but the standard I like this BTC solution best: nice fat enter key and they moved the \ key next to right shift where it does not eat up any important space (I HATE when they put it next to backspace and make backspace a single-width key. Dealbreaker as far as I'm concerned)
I prefer not having Windows keys because part of my left hand tends to rest between CTRL and ALT.
The only thing I'd change was would be to move num lock away from the numpad and next to pause/break. I do use the numpad frequently and num lock causes lot of aggravation when accidentally pressed, because you can't backspace out of it and tend to get jumped all over whatever page you are working on. Maybe put an extra backspace in its place.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9426&stc=1&d=1272136640)
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I prefer a UK 101 ISO layout on an M, having used one for ~15 years. I am used to the US ISO though, using an M13 lately, though mapped to UK 101 by preference. Hence wanting some nice blank (Uniform?) keys without legends.
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1) To the right of the right shift key, as that is out of the way.
2) The 101-key Model M seems wide enough.
3) I'm happy with the Model M arrangement, although there's something to be said for swapping Caps Lock and Ctrl as well.
4) Adding an = sign to the numeric keypad isn't what is needed. The comma would be much more useful there for numeric entry.
5) It would be nice to have Esc in its traditional position above the tab key - but then where does one put the key it replaces?
6) I think the F keys should definitely be at the top, and that there should be twelve of them.
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nice fat enter key and they moved the \ key next to right shift where it does not eat up any important space
That's one of my keyboard pet peeves. If you do much programming, you need that \ key regularly and it's a lot harder to reach it when it's put far out of reach. I've had keyboards that did this and it wasn't a big deal once I got used to it, but it does slow me down a bit.
I really like your standard 104-Key US layout. I appreciate having access to three modifier keys and I have my caps lock remapped as an extra control key. The only thing I'd change about the standard 104-Key is I'd move the "Insert/Delete/etc." cluster of six keys above the arrow keys down farther so that the delete key is easier to reach. This is how they have it laid out in one of my favorite alternate layout keyboards, the Matias Optimizer (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=The+Matias+Optimizer+Keyboard+A+Better+Layout+Than+the+HHKB). There just isn't a good reason to have that much empty space between the up arrow key and the keys above it other than aesthetics.
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HHKB layout is my absolute favorite.
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I think I can state my viewpoint on layout by saying IBM got it right 25 years ago, and most of the changes since have been for the worst.
1. Horizontal enter
2. Spacebar 4 - 9 keys long
3. I like the Model M placement, except I've gotten into the habit of remapping Caps Lock to Del.
4. Don't use the numpad enough to have an opinion
5. Left of F1
6. Haven't tried a board with them on the sides, so no opinion
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1. Not too fussed, I swap between keyboards with both types during the day at work at it's not a problem. I do prefer the \ key on the right of the left shift key.
2. Prefer a shorter space bar. As long as I can reach it with any thumb.
3. My caps lock is remapped to backspace, so I'd want it on the left of the A key. Not worried about the right ctrl & alt too much.
4. I'd be happy to lose the numpad entirely, but since you asked, I'd go for the larger key.
5. Left of F1
6. Top
Great Hierophant, what are your plans regarding the results of the survey?
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1. I'm much more used to horizontal enter, but I've used the L-shaped ones too and I don't really prefer one over the other.
2. 5 chars long is enough. I want any modifier keys to be close.
3. I use (Left hand side, top-to-bottom): CTRL, Shift, Mode-Switch, (RHS): Shift, Super. With Alt/Meta on the modifiers next to the space bar. No caps lock.
My main gripe with the Model M layout is that the keys labeled "CTRL" should be right next to Alt, not all the way to the sides.
4. Large + and large Enter. If I have to have a numeric key pad I want it to be useful.
5. I think I'd prefer it next to the 1 (above Tab). I use it just enough that it's too far away on the model M.
6. Above. Anything that increases keyboard width unnecessarily is wrong. Unless you're not using a mouse at all.