It happens with Topres. The initial reaction is often "meh". Karlito had the same reaction. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6196)
I wouldn't sell it quite yet. After a long day on a Model M you might find the Topre quite relaxing.
Was this the All 55g or the Weighted (normal) model?
We'll have to wait untill the patents expire before cheaper clones can emerge.
I didn't go through this phase of this experience. Maybe it was because I got my HHKB for €100 inc shipping?
Have you tried having sex with it? Maybe that's it's true purpose. Or at least a necessary initiation.
(No, I don't own a Topre and most likely never will.)
Disclaimer: I don't own a Topre so I can't say more than what is said below. Just rehashing some thoughts.
1. Aesthetics. Can't discuss on that one, you like it or you don't.
I'm just joking sort of. The rest of board other than the label looks fairly normal. And the blue lit up Caps Lock and Numlock keys are actually quite nice. So.....it's not an ugly board. It's a fairly attractive board with a butt ugly label stuck on the upper left. I would take a black sharpie to it if it wasn't so blasphemous :)
2. It is a rubber dome, although a fancy one. You only have the sound of the air under the dome being squeezed through the special holes in the rubber sheet.
I'm sure many would disagree and contend that the almighty capacitive switch is the bees kness in the mechanical keyboard world.
3. Some people actually pulled off the space bar and reversed it. So yes, it can be an issue depending on how you hold your thumb on the spacebar.
4. What is the key weight on the model you have? 45g, 55g or mixed weights?
I could understand you'd bottom out if you are used to a model F with approximately 60g keys. It takes time to learn to not bottom out on a lighter keyboard, even itlnstln has trouble going from brown Cherries to a HHKB.
I have the mixed weight version. And yes, I did acknowledge that I probably hit the keys harder. But dust particles can actuate that "A" key. itlnstln is selling his HHKB btw.
5. Aesthetics again. At least someone at Realforce thought it'd be good enough. :-)
6. This thing has a ridiculous price tag, and yet, nobody else is doing anything similar to get the price down. We'll have to wait untill the patents expire before cheaper clones can emerge.
I'm sure many would disagree and contend that the almighty capacitive switch is the bees kness in the mechanical keyboard world.
Hey dude. I'm really sorry you feel that way. I got my Realforce (the japanese one with different weighted keys) and think it is the best keyboard I've ever touched. Coming from a model m... you may have been expecting something different. I think the one word that covers topre boards is Elegance. I guess it is all preference. Ripster often says people say "meh".... which I guess means "what is all the fuss about" when people first touch it. I didn't feel that way at all. I immediately felt extremely amazed and LOVED it right away. and then in a few weeks it became even more apparent that it was truly a masterpiece of creation. What I really want now is an all 55g topre.... a japanese happy hacking and a 30 g topre. Unfortunately I have not even enough money to eat.... so gonna have to wait.
In any event I'm very sorry you didn't like it. I'm sure someone will buy it from you if you want to sell. HELL, If I had some money I'd try to buy it from you if you were selling. Anyways - try it for a few more weeks. If it still does NOTHING for you... then I guess its just not your thing. *curious* - how fast do you type.... I think topres really come out as the star player when you are typing over 110 WPM.
I wonder what a membrane switch feels like!Show Image(http://www.mikecase.net/ModelM/IBM-Model-M-Keyboard.jpg)Show Image(http://www.posmicro.com/outlet/pimages/Cherry-G80-8200-Keyboard.jpg)Show Image(http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/2007/08/apple-aluminum-keyboard.jpg)Show Image(http://sprignaturemoves.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/200551205849363.jpg)
I think the real problem is you rest your wrist on the desk as you type. Amirite?
If so, use a good wrist rest or get in habit of making your hands hover. Or if you think it isn't worth the effort, go back to the joys of the G15. Each to his own.
Does anyone have a picture of proper hover type technique.
I don't think I would do the 'hover' thing. Seems like a lot of work to keep the hands suspended over the keyboard.
I use a wrist rest as I type and my elbows are not resting on anything.
If you're used to pounding on any of the heavier mechanicals, then moving to a Topre is a bit like working on a jackhammer all day and then going on a date. You've got to relax and stop handling your date like it's heavy machinery. :)
Basically, it takes time to learn type without pounding or forcefully bottoming out, learning to use capacitive switches to their potential. When I first got a Topre board, i went back and forth loving it, hating it, not being sure. But once I learned to relax and enjoy typing on it and stopped bottoming out hard, it became my daily driver at work and home.
Back straight, head upright, elbows around 90°, wrists straight, and most importantly ... SMILE! A positive attitude can make the difference! :smile:Show Image(http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/pc/images/02108.jpg)
I bought my 87U with a leather on wood rest that is slightly higher than the front of the keyboard, and that works perfectly. I imagine gel is more comfortable, but may not encourage good habits / keep your hands high enough.
Yeah, but look at the forearms on that girl! That's some definition!
Hey, was it pc back then to call a member of the female persuasion "girl"???
Hey, was it pc back then to call a member of the female persuasion "girl"???
Would you prefer "little lady"? :D
DIP switch, in fact. For switches in a Dual In-line Package.
1. If you need to see letters to type then you can't touch type.
2. I like the thock sound but the cherry mx and BS are fine too.
3. Doesn't bother me, not much different from filco's spacebar.
6. Yeah it's expensive; cheap when compared to audiophile items though.
The difference between going from rubber dome to cherry is much more noticeable then rubber dome to capacitive at first.
I recently purchased an 87u as well, and I've gotta admit I'm having a bit of a "meh" reaction myself.
After typing on Blue Cherries every day for the past couple of years, I'm having a very hard time adjusting to the much subtler tactile feedback of the Topre switches. This seems to be causing two main side-effects:My fingers are actually getting MORE fatigued from using the 87u because I tend to bottom out pretty much constantly, so even though the switches require less force, overall I feel like I'm doing more work.
- My typing accuracy overall seems lower, I assume because I'm second-guessing myself more since I'm so used to subconsciously counting those Cherry clicks to match the letters of each word. I never realized how much my brain apparently relies on this when typing in masked password fields, etc.
I will say, though, that there is definitely nothing "meh" about the fit and finish of the board. It is truly a rarity these days to come across a product that looks and feels as if the person who made it actually put some love and care into the process. With as many hours of our lives as we geeks spend interacting with our gadgets, it's a shame that most gear is made just well enough to hopefully outlast the warranty period and/or planned obsolescence projection, whichever comes first. It just doesn't seem like anyone's making the "vintage computers of tomorrow" today. I firmly believe that over time, all the pleasant little details (or even just absence of annoyances) found in high-quality, well-designed objects add up to a fairly significant net gain in overall day-to-day contentedness. I get the impression that the folks at Topre understand this, and I applaud them for it.
So, like skcheng, I will probably be holding on to my 87u for the time being to see if my preferences change. However, it seems like what I really want is a Cherry board with Topre build quality...sigh.
The india ink on Realforce boards is incredible, I love it as it's not easy to see so it motivates you to touch type, but if you need to see something, the option is still there.
"With the blast shield down I can't even see, how am I supposed to fight?" - Luke Skywalker
"Chill out, just imagine you're using a Realforce 87u and kick ass semi-otaku style" - Obi WanShow Image(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/42/78914424_11d961d165.jpg)
I liked them at first, however coming from using cherry browns and cherry blues extensively, I found the topres to have less rebound force, that is, it did not push my fingers back as much deep into the switch. The 45 gram switches seem to have a nice snap to them midway down in the switch, but when you are deep into the switch, a cherry blue or brown will push back on your finger, allowing you to rebound and move to the next press quickly. For these reasons I found topres to be much more fatiguing to type on with my fingers compared with cherry blues or cherry browns.
I gave it a really good try however I never got hooked, thus I sold my topres.
I like the Realforce logo, it's small and simple. If you don't like it, there is an easy fix for it. :)Show Image(http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~tdw5447/First%2520Aid%2520-%2520ELectrical%2520Tape.jpg)
Skcheng, It's a bummer you didn't like them more. I thought for sure you'd be a fan. I miss the good feeling of oneness with cup rubber. :(
So.....what do you think of the logo?? Like it?? Hate it??
This comic is modeled after my wife and I discussing my Realforce purchase:
http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2010/4/18/how-to-justify-investing-in-quality-merchandise.html (http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2010/4/18/how-to-justify-investing-in-quality-merchandise.html)
Yeah, I keep my love of keyboards away from my personal life. Most people just don't understand it
Agreed -- keeping keyboard pr0n to yourself is definitely the wisest choice as most "normal" folks will just think you're nuts and want to argue or criticize. However, I'm equally confused by the number of computer professionals who don't seem to care about the quality of the equipment they interact with all day, every day. Part of it is surely the fact that most employers aren't willing to buy anything that's not on the weekly specials flyer from Staples, and a lot of people probably feel awkward about bringing in their own gear from home (which is what I do). I don't really see it as any different than bringing in other personal items such as desk tchotchkes, family photos, or posters / artwork for the walls. If you spend a huge chunk of your life stuck at the office, you might as well be comfortable while you're there.[/COLOR][/I]
black on black HHKB logo looks very cool, it almost invisible.
I was going to post that it was too expensive in that thread but you might get mad and unfriend me.
You should be in sales. Persistent.
Sex with the Topre??? I don't think so?? I'm kicking her and her board chow OUT!!
skc
The writer, is a member here (salcan). Good write up.
I don't exactly believe in the whole "hard to justify price" thing.
I treat keyboards like monitors. I know I'll have them for several PC generations so I want a good one. Unlike video cards which are obsolete in one year.
Plus the reviewer LIKED the DIP switches. What a Geek!Show Image(http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/topre_realforce_87u_01-580x406.gif)
Personally, I've never understood the appeal of the Realforce 'boards. To me, the best available keyboard is the HHKB Pro 2. This is, primarily, due to the layout. The key feel is nice, but it doesn't compare, IMHO, to either the blue or brown Cherry keyswitches. (in HHKB Pro's case, the key feel is "good enough" and the layout is perfect...which is why this keyboard wins top spot with me)
If I want to type on a "standard" US layout keyboard, I'll take a Filco with Cherrys any day (or a buckling spring 'board).
I don't want to adjust to a different layout that will mess with me whenever I go to a standard keyboard. That's also why I stay with straight boards rather than split/ergonomic models.
With what I do for a living, the HHKB layout doesn't offer me any advantages. I use the delete key and dedicated arrow keys constantly. Having to add a modifier into the mix every time I use those functions would be frustrating and impede my skills. :)
My Windows key is on the right side. There's a DIP switch for that. I didn't have to use my left hand at all.
-Right pinky on Fn
-Right ring finger on Shift
-Right thumb on diamond
-Right middle finger on semicolon.
Lots of empty space in the HHKB corners. No need to. They certainly filled it up in the Japanese HHKB. They don't like us.
Could do with a second Fn on the left hand side.
I wonder what a membrane switch feels like!Show Image(http://sprignaturemoves.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/200551205849363.jpg)
The OP said he wasn't going to get a Realforce 87U.
Not much to say after that really.
Give it to me!