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geekhack Marketplace => Great Finds => Topic started by: elbowglue on Sat, 01 May 2010, 03:41:21

Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: elbowglue on Sat, 01 May 2010, 03:41:21
A few LED backlit compact keyboards from deck and TG3, these all use cherry black switches.  Format is a little wonky but it's really compact. (If you liked the Ricercar SPOS... you'll LOVE this layout)

Fire(red led): TG3 keyboard, auction, currently at 29.99 + shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TG3-KBA-BL82B-Backlit-USB-Keyboard-/260593306222?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cac924a6e
This TG3 should be exactly the same as the deck 82 fire version.

Ice(blue led) - Sorry Sold for $75
http://cgi.ebay.com/Deck-backlit-mini-keyboard-ice-Deck-82-ice-free-ship-/290430680150?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item439f047c56#ht_684wt_1166
Here is this same item on deck's website (http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product_info.php?products_id=30)

According to the deck forums, the "fire" version has what deck calls "ghosting" which in other words is a bad matrix that results in blocking.
Fire blocks stuff. (http://www.deckkeyboards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=649)

Ice does not.  It has 6KRO (http://www.deckkeyboards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=654)

Deck 82 Ice reviewed by gotfrag. (http://hardware.gotfrag.com/portal/story/39189/?spage=6)
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: skcheng on Sat, 01 May 2010, 06:30:09
What are the differences btwn the Deck and the Tg3.  Lmnop mentioned how they differ at one point, but once I found out that they use Cherry Blacks, I lost interest.  Can the springs/stems swap out on this board since each switch uses an led??
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: elbowglue on Sat, 01 May 2010, 10:18:06
Here's a thread about it, look at post #6
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=5181

The long and short of it is this, the deck keyboard requries you to remove the LED's to do any sort of switch swap.  Each switch requires 4 points of de-solder and re-solder.  It isn't easy to change the cherry blacks to say cherry browns, in fact it could be considered a huge PITA.  You probably also need to have ninja-like soldering skills in addition.

There seems to be no other way of switching these keyboards to cherry browns or cherry blues.

As per this thread above the TG3 has a metal plate in it whereas the deck is straight PCB mounted.
Here's a thread about tg3 vs deck keyboards: http://www.deckkeyboards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89


By the way, the "elbowglue spos" (http://cgi.ebay.com/DESKO-MOS-5023-UP-KEYBOARD-USED-4-AIRPORT-CHECK-/150354249772?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2301cfc82c#ht_4909wt_958) is still available on ebay.  This also uses cherry black mounted switches directly on PCB, I got mine for $45 best offer shipped.  This was an easy switch to cherry blues, just took some time and patience, and a source of PCB mounted blue cherry switches.
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: pfink on Sat, 01 May 2010, 11:12:52
Quote from: elbowglue;177821
As per this thread above the TG3 has a metal plate in it whereas the deck is straight PCB mounted.


I've got a TG3 and they're also PCB mounted. I think the aluminum plate they're referring to in that thread is the access panel on the bottom of the keyboard.

The only differences between the TG3 and the Deck that I can see are:

Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 01 May 2010, 11:22:27
Are Cherries like Alps in that you can just swap the guts of the switch without desoldering it?
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: skcheng on Sat, 01 May 2010, 11:25:19
Quote from: pfink;177831
I've got a TG3 and they're also PCB mounted. I think the aluminum plate they're referring to in that thread is the access panel on the bottom of the keyboard.

The only differences between the TG3 and the Deck that I can see are:

  • The TG3 is PS/2, the Deck is USB
  • The TG3 has a plastic spill guard covering the PCB
  • The font on the keys are different
  • The aluminum access panel on the bottom of the Deck has a diamond plate pattern, the one on the TG3 is flat


Do you like the TG3?   The one board that I have with Cherry Blacks is my least favorite board to type on.  

I know that the Deck/TG3 boards have DS keys, but the layout is a bit unusual, and the font looks a little odd to me also.

I like the LED backlighting.
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: elbowglue on Sat, 01 May 2010, 11:34:44
I haven't taken apart an alps switch before, but yes, PCB mounted cherry switches are easy to take apart.  there are 4 pieces, the bottom of housing which is soldered to the PCB, the spring, the stem, and the top of the housing.

All cherry switches use the same bottom and top housing.  They only vary in the spring and the stem shape.  To replace a PCB mounted cherry switch, you can pry the top and bottom of the housing apart, change springs or change stems, and voila your old keyboard has different switches.

The presence of LED's makes this not possible without desoldering the LED's first.  Plate mounted cherry switches are more difficult to switch, they need to be desoldered at the base.


Skcheng: I find the TG3/deck 82 key keyboard to be very nice in size (about the same size as a HHKB) allowing for good midline mouse position.  This keyboard however is of small size, some might find the small sized enter / small sized backspace / small sized tab / small sized left shift to be cramped.  The form factor is very similar to the ricercar SPOS which I liked.

The backlighting is good for bling.  But the more I think about it I don't think I want LED lights shooting into my eyes all the time.  Cherry blacks, good for gaming and small amount of typing.

PS: The Ice is sold.  Congrats to whoever got it, be sure to post a review.


Quote from: ch_123;177836
Are Cherries like Alps in that you can just swap the guts of the switch without desoldering it?
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: pfink on Sat, 01 May 2010, 12:05:58
Quote from: skcheng;177838
Do you like the TG3?   The one board that I have with Cherry Blacks is my least favorite board to type on.  

I know that the Deck/TG3 boards have DS keys, but the layout is a bit unusual, and the font looks a little odd to me also.

I like the LED backlighting.


I'm not that crazy about Cherry blacks, I bought the TG3 and Deck mainly for modding. At some point when I've got the time I'll probably desolder all of the switches on the Deck and replace them with browns or blues.

The font on the TG3 keys is OK, the Deck font is pretty goofy looking.

I don't think the Deck/TG3 keys are double shot, at least they don't look it. I believe I read somewhere that they're molded using translucent plastic and then everything *except* the legend is dye-subbed black. Also, the keys appear to have been assembled from two parts. The keytop and stem appear to be of one piece and have been attached to the "skirt" by glue or some other method. Occasionally a beat-up TG3 will show up on eBay with several keys missing the skirt part.
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: pfink on Sat, 01 May 2010, 12:10:22
Quote from: elbowglue;177842
The backlighting is good for bling.  But the more I think about it I don't think I want LED lights shooting into my eyes all the time.  Cherry blacks, good for gaming and small amount of typing.


The backlighting can be dimmed or turned off completely by hitting Fn+Down Arrow, and can be turned back on with Fn+Up Arrow.  I think there are seven different levels of brightness.
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: nowsharing on Sat, 01 May 2010, 18:33:45

Ripster's keycaps are headed into true Fire and Ice territory.
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: pfink on Sat, 01 May 2010, 18:52:13
Quote from: ripster;177944
No skirt. Plastic or otherwise.  You can see the edge on the skull, right side.

OK, upon closer examination it appears that what I was calling the "skirt" could be the black part of a double-shot process, with the translucent top and stem being the other shot. However, where the two different plastics meet appears to be a weak join, as I've seen a couple photos of beaten up TG3s on eBay where some of the keys only have the top and stem left, the "skirt" having broken off. They looked like they broke off cleanly precisely where the black plastic meets the translucent plastic.
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: clickclack on Sat, 01 May 2010, 18:52:36
YAY, Frazetta territory! haahaa
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: Half-Saint on Wed, 17 November 2010, 08:54:23
Anyone here has one of those TG3 boards from Didjamatic? I'd like to know exactly what type of switch is in there? If it is indeed plate-mounted, it should be MX1A-11NN or MX1A-11RN. I'm thinking MX1A-E1NN should be a proper replacement. However, if these are NOT plate mounted, I should be buying MX1A-E1NW (with pins) instead!

Cheers
SainT
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: mr_a500 on Wed, 17 November 2010, 09:22:45
I thought this was a thread about:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13557&stc=1&d=1290092377)

Edit: damn picture disappeared
Title: Fire and Ice
Post by: zmurf on Thu, 18 November 2010, 08:46:57
Quote from: mr_a500;248022
I thought this was a thread about:
Show Image
(http://hol.abime.net/pic_full/dbs/0501-0600/547_dbs1.png)
Fire And Ice... nice computer game...


(@mr_a500: Your picture seem to be faulty... cant see it....)