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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sun, 02 May 2010, 16:58:22

Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sun, 02 May 2010, 16:58:22
Hi all,

I'm sure I'm going to order a Majestouch soon, I just haven't decided on NKRO vs non-NKRO.

Question: Does anybody make double shot keys for these already? If not, is there any interest in getting them made? As I've stated in a previous thread, painted keys tend not to hold up over time for me :boink:

If had 10 people interested (I realize that this wouldn't be enough to get the keys down to a reasonable cost - setup is like ~$1,000, right?) I'd take a look into it and try to get an estimate on 104 keys (for a batch of 20, 50 and 100 sets probably).
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sun, 02 May 2010, 17:25:23
Quote from: ripster;178276
Ask Elitekeyboards if he can start stocking double shots.  There is a vendor forum here too.
I'll ask EliteKeyboards about that. Maybe if there's substantial interest he'd be willing to do an order, which would be logistically easier.

Quote from: ripster;178276
Why not give Signature Plastics a call too?  I'm sure there are 10 people that would buy them around here.

I want to make sure that there's interest because, TBH, it really makes sense to get more than one quote (why overspend, also, different places may have different options). Have to make sure I get all of the profile info and such correct, plus I'm probably going to ask about the Tenkeyless.

EDIT: Or are the Tenkeyless the same key profile, just fewer keys? If so, it'd make more sense with the economy of scale (setup cost) to just have the Tenkeyless owners buy 104 keys. It'd be cheaper than doing a separate mold/run.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: mrbill on Sun, 02 May 2010, 18:56:36
I've got three Filcos (one 104, two tenkeyless) and am definitely interested.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vils on Mon, 03 May 2010, 17:40:19
Quote from: ripster;178276
Ask Elitekeyboards if he can start stocking double shots.  There is a vendor forum here too.

Why not give Signature Plastics a call too?  I'm sure there are 10 people that would buy them around here.

I just e-mailed Signature plastics, first I ordered some red Esc keys but I also asked for pricing on a new set of keys for my SMK-85 (Alps).
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 03 May 2010, 17:53:19
I'd go in for a set of doubleshot keys for my 104 myself.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: elbowglue on Mon, 03 May 2010, 18:32:17
I would get a set of doubleshots too.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: NOMiS on Mon, 03 May 2010, 20:49:24
I'd buy a set if the font isn't ugly like most double shots.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 03 May 2010, 21:50:56
What is a good font? I use Georgia a lot because it clearly distinguishes between characters like iIlL1, something I think should be mandatory for any font in modern use. But I dislike the way digits have descenders in Georgia.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Mon, 03 May 2010, 22:31:39
The interest seems to be here so I'll definitely start looking into the profile of the keys and such and see if I can get a quote from Signature Plastics.

Anyhow, the only acceptable keyboard font is Comic Sans.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: negidaku on Tue, 04 May 2010, 00:21:48
I'd be interested in picking up a set or two  -- especially if the keys were black on black.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: sixty on Tue, 04 May 2010, 00:33:42
Quote from: negidaku;178705
I'd be interested in picking up a set or two  -- especially if the keys were black on black.


This is pretty much impossible for double shot keys and pretty much against the point of double shot keys.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: NOMiS on Tue, 04 May 2010, 02:10:23
Quote from: Rajagra;178684
What is a good font? I use Georgia a lot because it clearly distinguishes between characters like iIlL1, something I think should be mandatory for any font in modern use. But I dislike the way digits have descenders in Georgia.


I dislike most serif fonts. I really like Futura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futura_%28typeface%29) (used on Filcos), Helvetica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica) (similar to Arial) and Frutiger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frutiger). I think those would look nice on keyboards.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Iceman on Tue, 04 May 2010, 03:53:48
I'd be interested in some double shot keys for my 87 key Majestouch as well.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vils on Tue, 04 May 2010, 12:49:09
I got a reply from Signature Plastics today.
A full set double shots for my SMK-85 would be around $175.
Im tempted but I dont have the money right now.
For those wanting doubleshots for your Filcos Im sure a group-buy would be possible. Propably lowering the cost per set dramaticlly.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vils on Tue, 04 May 2010, 14:27:57
You are right, $175 is not that expensive. SP are actually cheap, I bought forur Esc keys and a keycap puller from them today, $11,50 shipped.
BTW Ripster, you should have a look in the book Graphic design in Germany 1890-1945 by Jeremy Aynsley.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: -----------8<------------ on Tue, 04 May 2010, 15:39:56
How does this sort of thing normally work.

I mean for example with the Filco all keycaps are not the same, I don't have mine to hand but the height of each key varies doesn't it.

Presumably with replacement keycaps you'd end up with one standard keycap across the whole board?
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 04 May 2010, 16:43:53
Quote from: -----------8<------------;178909
How does this sort of thing normally work.

I mean for example with the Filco all keycaps are not the same, I don't have mine to hand but the height of each key varies doesn't it.

Presumably with replacement keycaps you'd end up with one standard keycap across the whole board?

Nah, signature plastics asks for a ton of profile information.

I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong, but I think it's one profile per row (I'm waiting for my Majestouch to arrive).

Unrelated to your post...I'm seriously trying to figure out a font myself. I'd like to reach a consensus here on that eventually.

EDIT: I think I'm right judging by this post on Geekhack (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=138839&postcount=24).

EDIT 2: Are the Filco keycap mounts recessed? I'm looking through the Mount styles (warning: PDF) (http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/MountStyles.pdf) right now.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: NOMiS on Tue, 04 May 2010, 19:14:28
Looking at the new double shots, like the Esc keys, they don't look very thick. I think that's one of the appeals of double shots.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: clickclack on Wed, 05 May 2010, 02:44:22
Quote from: ripster;179002
I'm gonna start up a Keys Database wiki.  The current key wiki looks dead.  (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Keycap+Roundup)
....  Topre thick....


Oooo, I  hope at some point my keys make it into that wiki =D

Just a quick side note regarding Topre type keys (including HHKB) the keys at some point were made a different thickness and the tooling changed. I can't narrow down the date, but I assume it revolves around a model change. I can provide some specs if interested.

=)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vils on Wed, 05 May 2010, 02:46:51
Regarding wall thickness in the keycaps from Signature Plastics.
I got this answer:
Quote
The walls in the DCS family are 0.030" thick, where the SA key wall thickness is 0.055".
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: clickclack on Wed, 05 May 2010, 03:18:34
Quote from: negidaku;178705
I'd be interested in picking up a set or two  -- especially if the keys were black on black.


Quote from: sixty;178709
This is pretty much impossible for double shot keys and pretty much against the point of double shot keys.


I understand what you are saying sixy but...
we know its likely not impossible, improbable perhaps only because they have to source or make a slightly different shade of black. Otherwise it's the same as any normal double shot in process. Lets not forget about HHKB's and Topre Realforce boards with the essentially black on black (although they are I believe dye sublimated not double shot).
I mention all this because I absolutely love the black on black look =) It really has most of the appeal of a blank board but with the quick help when you brain fart or when someone else has to use it =P
I think it's kinda classy too.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Wed, 05 May 2010, 09:14:00
Quote from: ripster;179002
They're not that thin.  Topre thick.  Certainly thicker than your typical ALPS doubleshot.   Not as thick as Cherry Corp keys that look like they were made for Hitler's bombshelter.


But only those old, thick Cherry keys give Cherry switches the nice full sound and that priceless ivory look and feel. That's the only kind of keys I'd pay money for.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: clickclack on Thu, 06 May 2010, 04:58:44
Quote from: Mental Hobbit;179133
But only those old, thick Cherry keys give Cherry switches the nice full sound and that priceless ivory look and feel. That's the only kind of keys I'd pay money for.

frantically starts taking notes.... ;)

Quote from: ripster;179134
Let's just say Wiki editors CAN be bribed.  Wink, wink.  Nudge, nudge.

ha-HA! I knew it! ...MUUUAHAHAAA... excelent, most excelent....
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Thu, 06 May 2010, 06:07:10
Quote from: webwit;179457
Of the Cherry caps, I actually like Filco best. I like them for their height.


And for giving you an opportunity to rant about the hollow sound of Cherry blues iirc.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: skcheng on Thu, 06 May 2010, 06:23:41
Quote from: webwit;179460
That's not me. I rant about the second rate tactile nature of the Cherry Blues, that silly vertical leaf switch.


You don't like Cherry Blues?  Really??   I love my double shot key'ed Filco blue Tenkeyless.   Don't you have like 10 of these boards??  I know you've swapped in metal keycaps, but have you tried the double shots?  It's NICE!!!  Filco keys SUCK.....I have four bags of them now.  They will never find their way back onto any of my Filco boards.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: skcheng on Thu, 06 May 2010, 06:49:36
Quote from: webwit;179465
I like 'em ;) But they are not as good as some other switches. I think there are various disadvantages to the vertical leaf design, especially the pingy one, which have been discussed elsewhere in this site in length. And I really like the height of the Filco caps. Model M height. It gives the keyboard something majestic.


Do you hover  :))

I actually prefer the shorter height cherry ds keys.  I guess I don't always type on the center of the keys so I find the lower profile more comfortable when I type for long periods of time.  

Just one of the reasons why I seem to have a tough time with the high profile Topre keys.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 06 May 2010, 14:54:10
Quote from: webwit;179472
Lower your desk or get a keyboard tray :)


This is a seriously good point. I used to have the keyboard on my desk and I had the tray the entire time... I switched one day to see if there was any difference in typing comfort.

The tray is much, much more comfortable to type on for extended periods of time.

In other words, it's there for a reason ;)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: bitflipper on Thu, 06 May 2010, 15:17:43
Quote from: skcheng;179463
You don't like Cherry Blues?  Really??   I love my double shot key'ed Filco blue Tenkeyless.   Don't you have like 10 of these boards??  I know you've swapped in metal keycaps, but have you tried the double shots?  It's NICE!!!  Filco keys SUCK.....I have four bags of them now.  They will never find their way back onto any of my Filco boards.


Where did you get the double shot keys to put on your Filcos?
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 06 May 2010, 17:23:26
Quote from: clickclack;179099
I understand what you are saying sixy but...
we know its likely not impossible, improbable perhaps only because they have to source or make a slightly different shade of black. Otherwise it's the same as any normal double shot in process. Lets not forget about HHKB's and Topre Realforce boards with the essentially black on black (although they are I believe dye sublimated not double shot).
I mention all this because I absolutely love the black on black look =) It really has most of the appeal of a blank board but with the quick help when you brain fart or when someone else has to use it =P
I think it's kinda classy too.
Yeah, stealth double shots FTW!
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9757&stc=1&d=1273184428)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 06 May 2010, 17:43:05
Quote from: TheSoulhunter;179610
Yeah, stealth double shots FTW!
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9757&stc=1&d=1273184428)

Ooooh.  That would be hot.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 06 May 2010, 17:47:16
Quote from: ripster;179614
Needs to be Helvetica.
Show Image
(http://images0.cafepress.com/product/72946910v14_225x225_Front.jpg)
Picked a random one in Paint...
Probably Tahoma regular or something >.>

P.s.
I'd buy 2-3 sets!
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 06 May 2010, 18:01:25
I'd be interested in doing stealth double shots, but ultimately the majority is going to rule. If only a couple of people want "stealth" (close colored) double shots, then it's not worth running.

If Signature Plastics is interested in doing both and can keep the cost per set down, doing both could be an option.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 06 May 2010, 18:15:36
Quote from: ripster;179630
Boo Stealth.  Renderings always look better than Reality.


I assume that's a double shot as well (as otherwise it would be tough to consider it a valid comparison?)

"Stealth" is only good if the letter is visible from more than 2 inches away...
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: microsoft windows on Thu, 06 May 2010, 19:07:05
Quote from: ripster - bhtooefr and I lay claim to first identifying IBM as Helvetica and I later identified Topre as Helvetica. [/QUOTE


You're wrong. IBM Model M's are similar to Helvetica, but not quite that font. Take a look at this write-up I made about it, which I attached right here to this post.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: kishy on Thu, 06 May 2010, 19:15:46
I was gonna say, actually, how I don't think it's Helvetica. The characters are too wide, Helvetica is a narrow font (at least it was the last time I saw it on a 68K Mac).
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: .Logic on Thu, 06 May 2010, 19:42:31
I've been lurking for a couple of months now and have become increasingly interested in securing myself a set of double-shots whether they be white on black or dark grey on black (which would look ever so sleek IMO).  I'm in Australia but have plenty of friends in the states so shipping should not be a problem either.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 06 May 2010, 20:32:56
OP here: This is the interest level I have (note that I am only counting people who explicitly stated they wanted keys):

MrBill: 3 sets (?)
hyperlinked: 1 set
elbowglue: 1 set
NOMiS: 1 set "if the font isn't ugly"
Iceman: 1 set
.Logic: 1 set

If you want a set, please state so explicitly and specify how many sets.

If you want the stealth keys, let me know. Unless there's substantial interest for both sets I doubt they will both be made- and to be safe, black on white would probably be more desirable.

I would also like to get some sort of agreement on the font. So pull out your thinking caps and think of highly readable, aesthetic fonts. Otherwise, I will pick the font (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_Sans).
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: bitflipper on Thu, 06 May 2010, 21:21:34
I'm interested in 2 sets, maybe 3 if the price is reasonable. Otherwise, I can harvest double shots from Cherry POS boards cheaply enough.

Font? Anything but the font on the Decks or Filcos.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 06 May 2010, 21:29:36
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;179672

If you want a set, please state so explicitly and specify how many sets...


I'd get 2-3 (stealth) sets if the price is reasonable (well below 100USD)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 06 May 2010, 21:31:47
Quote from: bitflipper;179676
Font? Anything but the font on the Decks or Filcos.


Be careful when you say "anything"... :cool:

(http://img144.yfrog.com/img144/2529/wingdingsfont.png)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: .Logic on Fri, 07 May 2010, 00:14:10
I don't particularly want a serif font, and regarding 'stealth' keys, provided there is enough interest... Would the keys or font be darker?  I"m really not sure...
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: mrbill on Fri, 07 May 2010, 00:24:35
Yes, depending on price I'd be interested in up to three sets, stealth colors preferred over white-lettering-on-black but I can't be too picky.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 07 May 2010, 00:43:11
Quote from: ripster;179709
I can't see the fonts clearly.  I use the dark theme.


Image was of Wingdings.

Quote from: ripster;179709
And both Topre and IBM are Helvetica.  Look at the R.  And I don't open Word documents.  Virus ridden things.


I looked at it a little while back. I'm too lazy to open it again, but there was a clear difference with the dollar sign symbol and several other keys.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 07 May 2010, 02:00:57
Quote from: microsoft windows;179645
IBM Model M's are similar to Helvetica, but not quite that font.

Looking at this font family (http://www.linotype.com/1266/neuehelvetica-family.html?subviewmode=FONTS&samplestr=QWR%24%25%40+Lock+Caps+Num+Scroll), I can match everything except the @ (even the dollar with broken line.) So I'm pretty sure IBM used a Helvetica font, or a mixture of Helvetica fonts.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: .Logic on Fri, 07 May 2010, 02:02:17
Quote from: ripster;179720


And what's wrong with Futura?  I like the Filco Font!


I would be quite happy with Futura.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Dezeer on Fri, 07 May 2010, 03:44:00
What kind of surface texture has these keys, will it start to shine after a while, I know that you might start to feel the edges of the letter. I might be interested, if there is some customization available and they could be sent abroad.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: phoenix on Fri, 07 May 2010, 07:01:30
How do you like MISO? It's already rounded so the double shot process won't distort it much. It may be too narrow, though.

(http://omkrets.se/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/miso_promotion.png)

http://www.omkrets.se/typografi/
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 07 May 2010, 07:38:00
I am interested in a set, especially in Futura.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: kishy on Fri, 07 May 2010, 13:17:12
I don't know what it is, but the Model M typeface is NOT Helvetica. Or maybe some of it is.

I could believe the keys with actual words on them (tab, shift, enter...more than one character) are Helvetica because of the ugly character spacing. Helvetica is an ugly typeface...

Single characters, I dunno. They're too wide in relation to their height, maybe it's an illusion but it really doesn't look like Helvetica. Much closer to even Arial with the proportional height/width thing, but it's possible it's some kind of distorted Helvetica.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: kishy on Fri, 07 May 2010, 13:50:16
Quote from: ripster;179893
How did you do on the quiz?

Typefaces come in many widths and spacings.


Ugh, once again I failed to see there even was a quiz.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: kishy on Fri, 07 May 2010, 14:05:41
Got 15/20. Digital threw me off, and the red ones.

After doing it I'm leaning towards it maybe being Helvetica. I hadn't realized that it actually looks like that; go fire up a 68K Mac with built in CRT and see what it looks like there. Damned near the same as Arial Narrow bolded.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: phoenix on Fri, 07 May 2010, 14:08:42
Quote from: ripster;179905
http://fontfeed.com/archives/firefox-36-released-first-web-fontfont-is-free/


Oh hell, how did I miss that. (I subscribe to the fontfeed RSS.) No wonder Nuvo has been popping up everywhere. It looks out of place 99% of the time.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 07 May 2010, 14:53:06
Quote from: ripster;179720
once you pass 20/20 on this test (http://www.ironicsans.com/helvarialquiz/index.php) we can argue about the diacritics.


Awesome test! I had to pause significantly at MATTEL and almost as long at TOYOTA, but scored 20/20.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 07 May 2010, 15:01:27
BASF. I used their tape in the reel-to-reel days. I still have my BASF splicing kit.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 07 May 2010, 15:54:46
I got them all right.  I feel so ashamed.  The Mattel one took me awhile to figure out.  The rest were pretty easy.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 08 May 2010, 03:05:14
Bah! 19/20. I failed Mattel. I'll be grumpy all day now.:mad:
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Iceman on Sat, 08 May 2010, 04:04:05
18/20 for me. I failed Mattel and Staples.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 08 May 2010, 09:36:36
I also hereby declare my interest if the font is good.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 08 May 2010, 09:49:01
Quote from: ripster;179709
And I don't open Word documents.  Virus ridden things.


And I wouldn't post one - amongst other reasons, Word saves your name as part of the document...
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: negidaku on Sat, 08 May 2010, 10:24:27
I'll sign up for at least one set (possibly two). I prefer stealth but would also accept white on black.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: kishy on Sat, 08 May 2010, 12:37:02
Quote from: ch_123;180166
And I wouldn't post one - amongst other reasons, Word saves your name as part of the document...

Only if you're one of those [strike]losers[/strike] people who use your real name with the software.

Damnit, I did too.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sat, 08 May 2010, 15:12:39
Quote from: ch_123;180166
And I wouldn't post one - amongst other reasons, Word saves your name as part of the document...


http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA010776461033.aspx

You can remove such metadata from a .doc/.docx document.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 08 May 2010, 18:29:01
Quote from: kishy;180202
Only if you're one of those [strike]losers[/strike] people who use your real name with the software.

Damnit, I did too.


Most web sites know me as Nick Jones, who lives on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in Texas, Afghanistan. And my phone number's 555-7410.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: kishy on Sat, 08 May 2010, 18:58:24
Nice. I like to go with 867-5309, or did until I realized it was actually an assigned phone number.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 09 May 2010, 04:31:47
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;180250
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA010776461033.aspx

You can remove such metadata from a .doc/.docx document.


I assume you can also find a way to remove all the document revisions, including the embarrassing things you thought you'd deleted, but were in fact still stored in the file.

It's a shame the onus is on the user to check/deal with these things.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Sun, 09 May 2010, 11:32:35
Quote from: ripster;180161
I had to go back and study some tutorials because about 3 questions into it I realized I only really knew capital R and G.

S, s, C, c, and t are all dead giveaways.  TBH, I pretty much guessed on Mattel.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: phoenix on Sun, 09 May 2010, 22:20:52
Quote from: ripster;180416
Here's me and my buds trying to look at the trailing R leg.


Black on gray on the RF87u is very legible in my office, with banks and banks of fluorescent tubes above me. They only start getting hard to see when you look at them from straight above.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Mon, 10 May 2010, 11:29:35
I get my Filco tomorrow, I want to verify the key profiles and have the actual keyboard in front of me so I can measure the exact key sizes (Signature plastics asks how many "units" a key is, with a letter key being one unit...space, shift, enter, etc.)

If anyone could verify that the Tenkeyless keys are the same that'd be helpful (obviously the Tenkeyless doesn't have 104 keys, but are the 87 the same)

Quote from: Rajagra;180327
I assume you can also find a way to remove all the document revisions, including the embarrassing things you thought you'd deleted, but were in fact still stored in the file.

File -> Prepare -> Inspect Document in Office 2007. Office XP & 2003 have a plugin (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=144E54ED-D43E-42CA-BC7B-5446D34E5360&displaylang=en).

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2724/hypothetical.png)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: washuai on Mon, 10 May 2010, 19:48:47
Question - Are there any options for changing what's on the window's key without raising the cost per set?  Making it a Geek Hack key, for example?  Is there interest in this from those interested in the double shots?

I realize there's already a bit of white versus grey lettering and font choice to agree to, so feel free to shoot this down.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 10 May 2010, 19:52:06
I'd like a Meta symbol like that on Sun and HHKB keyboards. That failing, I would accept "Meta" or "Mod" in text on the caps.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Compose_key_on_Sun_Type_5c_keyboard.jpg)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Mon, 10 May 2010, 19:53:38
Quote from: washuai;180835
Question - Are there any options for changing what's on the window's key without raising the cost per set?  Making it a Geek Hack key, for example?  Is there interest in this from those interested in the double shots?

I'd be fine with making it a generic "super key" logo or any other cool logo if we reach a consensus.

The Windows logo is trademarked but I think we would qualify under Microsoft's guidelines (http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/Usage/Windows.aspx) (basically, if the logo isn't huge, you give MS credit, and it's to indicate compatibility instead of trying to imply relation to the OS or MS, you are clear).
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 10 May 2010, 19:55:01
A lot of folks around here would not want a Windows key at all. Best to keep it neutral.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Mon, 10 May 2010, 19:58:04
Quote from: ch_123;180841
A lot of folks around here would not want a Windows key at all. Best to keep it neutral.

We could try some ugly amalgamation that included every logo (Windows Flag/Apple logo/Meta/etc) :heh:

Seriously, if people would not like a Windows logo, I'd prefer to do something neutral. I really don't care that much. Some sort of symbol would be nicer than "Super", but whatever everyone else wants is fine with me.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: washuai on Mon, 10 May 2010, 20:14:36
Neutral symbol FTW.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 10 May 2010, 20:22:40
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;180842
we could try some ugly amalgamation that included every logo (windows flag/apple logo/meta/etc) :heh:



(Not my work!)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 10 May 2010, 20:44:23
There's always this unicode character (U+2328): ⌨
Or something like a gear icon to indicate work/action to be done.


Quote from: ripster;180853
Needs St John's Arms (wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_John%27s_Arms)).


FWIW, "Place of interest sign" is U+2318⌘
U+25C7 ◇

Running man icon would be logical, if not particularly attractive:
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 10 May 2010, 21:31:56
Gag! Yeah, anything but a Windows key. I really don't care what it is as long as it's not a Windows key!

Actually, I wouldn't care anyway if it was a Windows key, but I'd certainly rather not have it.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: outofideas on Mon, 10 May 2010, 22:45:58
I'm in, for 2 104 key sets, possibly a 3rd, if the price is reasonable($20-$35 each or less).

The S is starting to wear off, on my most used board.  And an awful lot of keys are starting to shine.  I can't complain though, since I knew up front about the coating and wear issues.

I don't have any strong opinions on fonts, though I think a Serif font would look "off".

Thanks for putting this together.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Bending Olympian on Mon, 10 May 2010, 23:03:15
Count me in for 1 87 key set.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: didjamatic on Mon, 10 May 2010, 23:36:23
I'll take a set, prefer stealth or something unique, but count me in regardless.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: .Logic on Tue, 11 May 2010, 02:38:19
A generic meta key or something similar would be perfectly adequate in place of the windows key.  I don't really want something to out of the ordinary :S

As for stealth keys, they should definitely be grey on (in) black, having keys that don't match the chassis would look quite strange IMO.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 11 May 2010, 07:54:33
Quote from: ripster
That last pic shows a pretty good font is possible with Double Shot.

I was going to say something about this yesterday when you posted the Cherry cap pic in regards to font.  Only Cherry (AFAIK) uses such a bubbly font.  The double-shots on the Northgate had a pretty normal, "square-edged" font.  There shouldn't be a whole lot of problem getting double-shots made in Futura if the tooling were available.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 11 May 2010, 09:30:17
Looking at some special charcters on the old Cherry doubleshots in front of me, *, #, $, &, §... all have acute angles, some have very fine lines, but all look perfectly clean. I doubt there's a limitation to what fonts can be used, provided the manufacturer knows how to do it right.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 11:34:48
Alright, updated interest levels:
(If you are not on the list, please state your interest explicitly with the number of sets.)

MrBill: 3 sets (?) (stealth preferred)
hyperlinked: 1 set
elbowglue: 1 set
NOMiS: 1 set "if the font isn't ugly"
Iceman: 1 set
.Logic: 1 set (if interest, want stealth, no serif font)
bitflipper: 2, maybe 3 sets if the font is "anything but the font on the Decks or Filcos"
TheSoulHunter: 2-3 Stealth sets ONLY
Deezer: Potential interest in one if they can be sent abroad
outofideas: 2 sets, 3rd if price is ($20-$35 each or less)
Bending Olympian: 1 87 key set
didjamatic: 1 set, preference for stealth
washuai: 1-2 104 key sets (depending on price)
itlnstln: 1 104-key set, preference for stealth and "a decent font" (not "crazy Deck font")
Ripster: 1 set, no preference
negidaku: 1-2 sets, preferably stealth
Webwit: 1 set, preferably stealth
Total: 19 minimum, 24 maximum

I noted a couple people indicated a preference for stealth or only interested if stealth. If you have a preference or requirement (must be white lettering on black key, prefer stealth, etc.) please tell me.

EDIT: I have also sent an email to Signature Plastics asking if a stealth set would be cheaper if the keys were ceteris paribus otherwise (font, key profile, etc. all the same) and asking about their font options. I will let you know what the response is.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 11 May 2010, 11:37:20
I would like 1, 104-key set. I would prefer stealth and decent font, but I'll take whatever.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 11:46:41
Added you to the list, itlnstln.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: negidaku on Tue, 11 May 2010, 11:54:25
Reposting since it looks like I'm not currently on the list:

Quote from: negidaku;180173
I'll sign up for at least one set (possibly two). I prefer stealth but would also accept white on black.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 11 May 2010, 12:07:23
Just no crazy Deck fonts.  Something classy like Helvectica or Futura.

Topre double-shots might be nice, too.  

Not for me, of course.

Well, maybe.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 13:47:31
Added ripster & negidaku.

negidaku, sorry I missed you.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 13:54:41
Reply from Signature Plastics, emphasis is mine:
Quote from: Signature Plastics

Thanks for contacting Signature Plastics! 15 to 20 sets is the common quantity these days and never too small of a run for us - you are correct in that the more sets you order, the lower the set price. To answer your questions:

1. Yes it would be a bit more affordable to purchase a second set with different character colors (we call this the 1st shot), assuming the body of the keycaps are the same color. If all ordered at the same time, we can run the two different color first shot simultaneously (again assuming that the second shot, or key body color is the same).

2. At this point almost all of our legends (characters) are run in an Arial type font. We have had requests from several companies for the font on the Filco keyboards (I am told this is a modified narrow italicized gothic Futura font of some sort). We are working on having this available, however without any immediate requests, it has been put on the back burner. To give you a bit of understanding: to create a custom font, we have to have a 'line font' or image that is then cut onto a 4"x4" piece of plexi (using our Roland CNC Engraver which has a limited font selection). This 4x4 plexi this then used to engrave the image onto a smaller 1"x1" piece of brass. The brass is what is used to create the legends in the first shot. As you can imagine this is a bit of a time consuming process, especially for 103 various legends. While we can offer different fonts (which I unfortunately don't have a list of), if it isn't something we anticipate using the future, there may be an additional charge, depending on the font. Did you have any particular fonts in mind? (my apologies for the rambling - if you were to go the Filco type font, there would not be an extra charge).


So the summary is:
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 14:07:23
Quote from: webwit;181144
1 for me, prefer stealth.

Added with note of letter color preference. You have any font preference?
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 11 May 2010, 14:13:49
Quote from: Signature Plastics key cap format font-making expert guy
(I am told this is a modified narrow italicized gothic Futura font of  some sort)

Epic wordiness.  I love it.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 14:16:19
Quote from: itlnstln;181156
Signature Plastics key cap format font-making expert guy

I've bolded a mistake in your post. :bowl:
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vils on Tue, 11 May 2010, 14:16:24
One for me too, go for the Filco font and some symbol for the win-key.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 14:22:29
Quote from: vils;181160
One for me too, go for the Filco font and some symbol for the win-key.

Added.

Alright, updated interest levels:
(If you are not on the list, please state your interest explicitly with the number of sets.)

MrBill: 3 sets (?) (stealth preferred)
hyperlinked: 1 set
elbowglue: 1 set
NOMiS: 1 set "if the font isn't ugly"
Iceman: 1 set
.Logic: 1 set (if interest, want stealth, no serif font)
bitflipper: 2, maybe 3 sets if the font is "anything but the font on the Decks or Filcos"
TheSoulHunter: 2-3 Stealth sets ONLY
Dezeer: Potential interest in one if they can be sent abroad, Swe/Fin layout (is this doable?)
outofideas: 2 sets, 3rd if price is ($20-$35 each or less)
Bending Olympian: 1 87 key set
didjamatic: 1 set, preference for stealth
washuai: 1-2 104 key sets (depending on price)
itlnstln: 1 104-key set, preference for stealth and "a decent font" (not "crazy Deck font")
Ripster: 1 set, no preference
negidaku: 1-2 sets, preferably stealth
Webwit: 1 set, preferably stealth
vils: 1 set, wants Filco font & alternate symbol for win key
Total: 20 minimum, 25 maximum

I noted a couple people indicated a preference for stealth or only interested if stealth. If you have a preference or requirement (must be white lettering on black key, prefer stealth, etc.) please tell me. Please also add your thoughts on font choice.

Quote from: ripster;181162
I like the new muchadoaboutnothing avatar.

Thanks :bounce:

Quote from: ripster;181162
I'll be a good boy and not debate the choice of nubian, nubbly, nubile F and J nubs.

I'd be happy to ask Signature Plastics about circular nubs if there is interest for that over the more popular "bar" nubs on F and J.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 11 May 2010, 14:33:59
I like the circular nubs, but the bar is OK, and either is better than the scooped caps Cherry uses.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Dezeer on Tue, 11 May 2010, 14:45:08
muchadoaboutnothing you typo'd my name. I would like to add that it would need to be 105 key and fin/swe, win key should be normal flag.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 14:48:17
Quote from: Dezeer;181188
muchadoaboutnothing you typo'd my name. I would like to add that it would need to be 105 key and fin/swe, win key should be normal flag.

I'll correct that momentarily.

I'll have to see. The Swedish layout uses the "vertical" enter key that goes beyond the home row, right?

This is the US layout:
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9913/win95us.gif)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 11 May 2010, 15:28:52
I'm in for one set. What are we buying again?
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vils on Tue, 11 May 2010, 15:55:26
I actually have a FKB100m/JB. With vertical enter. But I can live with any layout, its just to change the keys that are possible to change.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 11 May 2010, 16:25:37
Put me in as long as the price is decent, the font is decent, and preferably with some OS-neutral meta key. (Diamond symbol prefered)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Dirty Bint on Tue, 11 May 2010, 16:51:43
Put me down for a set if they can be shipped to the UK and can be made for a 105 key UK layout Filco with blue switches.

Rgds
Dirty Bint
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 11 May 2010, 17:21:45
I still think the Diamon is a neutral enough design that looks smart yet doesn't offend everyone's respective deity.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vils on Tue, 11 May 2010, 17:31:14
Diamond is good.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 11 May 2010, 17:32:25
Surely there is nobody who dislikes Sun Microsystems?

*coughs*
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: NOMiS on Tue, 11 May 2010, 18:07:36
I would prefer a stealth set.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: nijikon5 on Tue, 11 May 2010, 18:32:26
In for a set with Filco or Stealth font.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 19:43:08
Quote from: nijikon5;181330
In for a set with Filco or Stealth font.


Stealth just refers to the font color, not the font itself.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vhaarr on Tue, 11 May 2010, 20:14:42
How would shipping be handled?
Provided I can get them in Norway _somehow_, I'd be in for 1 or 2 sets of 87 keys.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 20:19:35
Quote from: vhaarr;181347
How would shipping be handled?
Provided I can get them in Norway _somehow_, I'd be in for 1 or 2 sets of 87 keys.


I'm assuming Signature Plastics isn't going to indivudually ship them. So it'd depend on the size and weight, the package required isn't huge but I'd want to use some sort of trackable shipping method for your benefit.

Are you using a US layout? If not, how different is the Norwegian layout?
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: boaby on Tue, 11 May 2010, 20:34:01
I'd take 2 sets if a 105 key UK layout is on the cards. Prefer stealth.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 11 May 2010, 20:39:39
I'll have to account for all of the people who want 105 key layouts with the vertical enter/return key. I'll let you know if it's in the cards. The main problem comes down to the different symbols on different keys on non-English boards.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: nijikon5 on Tue, 11 May 2010, 21:13:38
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;181344
Stealth just refers to the font color, not the font itself.


Gotcha, put me down for a normal US layout set with the Filco Font.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: .Logic on Tue, 11 May 2010, 21:19:58
To sum up what I am after (and hopefully make it easier for muchado)

- Stealth keys (dark grey 1st shot, keyboard chassis colour 2nd shot)
- Filco-type font
- 1 set
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: mrbill on Tue, 11 May 2010, 22:31:22
Quote from: ch_123;181310
Surely there is nobody who dislikes Sun Microsystems?


Don't look at me, I've run SUNHELP.ORG for fourteen years.

I was *so* dissapointed in the Type 7 keyboard.  Used it for 2-3 days, then unplugged it and plugged a Model M back in via a converter box.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Dezeer on Tue, 11 May 2010, 23:25:40
muchadoaboutnothing this is swe/fin + rest of the keys. (http://koti.mbnet.fi/choi/keyboardswefin.png)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vhaarr on Wed, 12 May 2010, 04:11:04
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;181349

Are you using a US layout? If not, how different is the Norwegian layout?


I don't really need any Norwegian layout keys (I've been using unlettered keys the last year anyway), but if it's _zero_ effort for you, the layout is the same except for 3 keys; Å Æ Ø - I think; here's an image of it:
http://frontype.com/keyboarding/540px-Computer-keyboard-Norway.svg.png

But don't worry about it. I don't think anyone here expects to get any layout except the US one. I certainly wasn't expecting that when I posted.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 12 May 2010, 11:11:54
Quote from: vhaarr;181413
I don't really need any Norwegian layout keys (I've been using unlettered keys the last year anyway), but if it's _zero_ effort for you, the layout is the same except for 3 keys; Å Æ Ø - I think; here's an image of it:
http://frontype.com/keyboarding/540px-Computer-keyboard-Norway.svg.png

But don't worry about it. I don't think anyone here expects to get any layout except the US one. I certainly wasn't expecting that when I posted.


I'll see what I can do. When you're doing 100+ keys per set anyways, the cost to have four or five more chucked on may be minimal.

It may even be outweighed by having more people interested in getting a set, resulting in the setup costs getting distributed among more sets, meaning a lower cost per set.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 12 May 2010, 11:55:28
Actually, take me off the list. I may not need them after all.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: NOMiS on Wed, 12 May 2010, 12:18:26
The dome is cancer.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: boaby on Wed, 12 May 2010, 12:37:06
Quote from: ripster;181499

Repost of Soulhunters pic.
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9952&stc=1&d=1273682448)



That's pretty sexual.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: boaby on Wed, 12 May 2010, 13:01:38
Ha, on this side of the pond it refers to a totally different appendage (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boabie).
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: washuai on Wed, 12 May 2010, 13:35:45
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9952&stc=1&d=1273682448)
What font is engraved here?
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 12 May 2010, 13:52:23
It looks like Arial.

Oops.  Got a call before I posted, and ripster beat me to it.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: NOMiS on Wed, 12 May 2010, 23:24:35
After getting my GH key, I wouldn't mind having a non stealth set if the font size is small. Like on Filcos. Also What key profile will these be? I assume Filco since you could mix and match. I think you should include a red esc key too.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: washuai on Thu, 13 May 2010, 10:25:19
One can already buy red esc keys, solo even.  Only if they're throwing them in free and extra and even then I'm not interested, but at least I won't care.  I want my esc to match.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 13 May 2010, 13:50:39
I've had my Filco for a couple days now...been loving it.

I'm going to measure the key profile in a little bit. I'm going to need some help from somebody using a 105 key layout (with the vertical enter that goes past the home row) to make sure I get the size right (http://keycapsdirect.com/keycaps-101.php) (see "size" on that page).

As far as the key profile, I'm not looking to rock the boat- if they won't do the family profile I found here earlier (what the Filco original keys are), one of Signature Plastic's "standard" profiles is pretty close.

I'm going to ask about nubs for F & J that are circular (is it an option? Would it increase cost?)

Still need a font consensus and where the legend location (http://keycapsdirect.com/faq.php) will be. A couple of members have expressed disdain for the Filco font but I've seen more people wanting it than against it. Trying to get something mutually agreeable though.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 13 May 2010, 14:29:56
Quote from: ripster;182062
You mean THIS key profile???  You have to give them all the dimensions??

They want:
Also, they want the measurement of any size larger than a standard letter key:
Quote from: Signature Plastics
Keycaps come in various sizes depending on the family. Most keys, like the alpha / numeric keys, are referred to as single unit or one space keys. Larger keys are measured in 1/4 increments of a one space key. So an "Alt" key, for example, may be a 1.25 size and a "Tab" key a 1.5 size. Space bars can measure up to 10.5 units long.

You'd define the ride height of Filco keys as high, right? I get that they're sculptured & cylindrical.
Quote from: Signature Plastics
Family refers to the basic style of keycap on a keyboard. Some examples are shown in the picture on the left. Keycap families are defined by their ride height, typically low, medium or high; their side profile, defined as sculptured or non-sculptured; and the contour of the top surface which can be spherical, cylindrical or flat.
Show Image
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/999/customfamily.jpg)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 13 May 2010, 15:07:43
Thanks, ripster. I'm going to ask for a quote on 20 sets & 50 sets (there are other sites where people use mechanical keyboards, and if the price of 50 becomes substantially lower, there might be more interest) later tonight.

I'll ask about the circular centered nubs, about the Filco font and a couple others (I'll see what has the greatest consensus in the thread thus far), some European layout keys, the Win key/command key/diamond, etc.

I will be back in a bit...I have a bit before I write all the stuff for a quote, so if you have any remarks, please speak now.

I'm also going to ask what plastic they use for two shots (my guess is ABS from what I have read) and if doing stealths with PBT dye-sub would be any more economical (that's what the Realforce/HHKB uses, correct?). From what I understand, this is lower contrast but equally resistant to wear.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 13 May 2010, 15:27:39
Quote from: ripster;182081
And then Lasered on PBT, no infill,  for the stealth but they may not be able to do that combo.

This would be nice, too.  I like that look.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: majestouch on Thu, 13 May 2010, 16:19:29
Quote from: ripster;182072
DCS family (although on a Filco the Fcn rows and Number rows are identical).

I THINK 6U  (they should know this, or send them a key to be safe).

Spacebar is 118mm (4.645")

I'd send them a pic of the keys from Elitekeyboards (the spare set he sells) and tell them to work off of that for other key widths.  Pretty standard really.

Might as well tell you guys, they already have a FILCO set on hand, and I have a set of their DCS, but there are some complications. I don't mean to discourage y'all from goin in on a group buy, but as-is, the off-the-shelf DCS doesn't fit the FILCO to my standard. I have a couple changes that I still need to discuss with them, but if it doesn't turn out to be cost effective, then I'll let you know the details.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: .Logic on Thu, 13 May 2010, 18:10:29
The trouble with lasering is that the grooves are easily felt and to me, quite annoying.  I think it's best to stick with double-shot, that was the purpose of the thread in the first place after all.

Also, what colour are the stealth key going to be? The actual key is going to bed the same colour as they keyboard right?(I.e the lettering is grey)

PS sorry for any errors, I'm on my phone
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 13 May 2010, 18:55:07
Yeah, the KBC caps feel nice...
Unfortunately they don't offer full sets! :/
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: NOMiS on Thu, 13 May 2010, 20:04:53
I think spherical keycaps would own, anyone have opinions on them? These looks like medium profile keys.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/wqvwg2.jpg)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 13 May 2010, 20:09:20
Quote from: NOMiS;182181
I think spherical keycaps would own, anyone have opinions on them? These looks like medium profile keys.
Show Image
(http://i44.tinypic.com/wqvwg2.jpg)

I'll take all 3 of those boards please, bottom one is my fav.  Those caps look great.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: NOMiS on Thu, 13 May 2010, 20:16:11
I love the bottom one too. :D Those are 356cl's, not cheap.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 13 May 2010, 20:26:15
Quote from: majestouch;182118
Might as well tell you guys, they already have a FILCO set on hand, and I have a set of their DCS, but there are some complications. I don't mean to discourage y'all from goin in on a group buy, but as-is, the off-the-shelf DCS doesn't fit the FILCO to my standard. I have a couple changes that I still need to discuss with them, but if it doesn't turn out to be cost effective, then I'll let you know the details.


Didn't know you were working with Signature Plastics...

Hmmm, well that complicates things. They only offer standard families (no customs)?
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: majestouch on Thu, 13 May 2010, 21:24:00
Quote from: NOMiS;182181
I think spherical keycaps would own, anyone have opinions on them? These looks like medium profile keys.
Show Image
(http://i44.tinypic.com/wqvwg2.jpg)

Spherical keys look classy and feel nice individually, but I find they're like little speed bumps when you're moving your fingers between rows, particularly when making a two row jump like home row to the number row. Maybe some typists are better at lifting and landing than I am, I tend to slide to find 4 and 7 and F and J, speaking of which, 4 and 7 need nubs if I'm ordering keys.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: majestouch on Thu, 13 May 2010, 21:48:16
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;182185
Didn't know you were working with Signature Plastics...

Hmmm, well that complicates things. They only offer standard families (no customs)?


I work to figure out trends many months ahead of time, but I don't broadcast my every turn;). I actually wanted to do this last year, but there were other pressing business matters that got in the way. Signature seems to be amazingly flexible in the way of printing/lettering options; order quantity helps of course, but changes to the base key shape is costly.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Thu, 13 May 2010, 22:42:48
KBC does offer full sets, It comes up a week ago
but tight PBT keycaps show some troubles
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ja6XW7vy_VA/S-zFxgrd-lI/AAAAAAACsE4/sJe7PsiCiZk/s800/10051220098c718ed72bad7355.jpg)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ja6XW7vy_VA/S-zFzF5WNwI/AAAAAAACsFQ/AIAkb6w9fao/s800/100514105646b5134c0186551c.jpg)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ja6XW7vy_VA/S-zFtYpd86I/AAAAAAACsEg/_82G37QyapU/s800/10051211237d83669e7e2f2dfc.jpg)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: sixty on Fri, 14 May 2010, 01:27:35
Quote from: Laggy-gaga;182223
KBC does offer full sets, It comes up a week ago
but tight PBT keycaps show some troubles
Show Image
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ja6XW7vy_VA/S-zFxgrd-lI/AAAAAAACsE4/sJe7PsiCiZk/s800/10051220098c718ed72bad7355.jpg)



Ouch. ALPS syndrome.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: sixty on Fri, 14 May 2010, 01:47:15
Quote from: majestouch
Might as well tell you guys, they already have a FILCO set on hand, and I have a set of their DCS, but there are some complications. I don't mean to discourage y'all from goin in on a group buy, but as-is, the off-the-shelf DCS doesn't fit the FILCO to my standard. I have a couple changes that I still need to discuss with them, but if it doesn't turn out to be cost effective, then I'll let you know the details.


Nice to hear you are working with them. You should figure out if they made made this set of Korean Filco doubleshots (http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1240381976). I have a set of these and they are indeed a perfect fit for the Filco, assuming you replace the entire set. After having the Geekhack key made I am pretty sure the Korean ones were also made by Signature Plastics. The molding artifacts and molding patterns look very similar.

(http://imgur.com/lqDTl.jpg)

Anyway, looking forward to see some news regarding this.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 14 May 2010, 04:36:09
Quote from: Laggy-gaga;182223
tight PBT keycaps show some troubles


You did a ripster! >.<
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Fri, 14 May 2010, 06:19:34
Got those images from KBC forum
I prefer to w8 4 next round
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 14 May 2010, 08:01:28
Quote from: sixty
You should figure out if they made made this set of Korean Filco doubleshots (http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1240381976).

I love this set of double-shots.  I like the small legends in that classy font.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Fri, 14 May 2010, 09:42:31
Quote from: sixty;182246
You should figure out if they made made this set of Korean Filco doubleshots (http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1240381976). I have a set of these and they are indeed a perfect fit for the Filco, assuming you replace the entire set.


How's the sound and feel of these keys, compared to old Cherry doubleshots? The walls look terribly thin to me.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 14 May 2010, 19:48:21
Quote from: Laggy-gaga;182223
KBC does offer full sets, It comes up a week ago...
Got a link or something to this black engraved 104 keysets?
Can I get em from Taobao?
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 14 May 2010, 19:50:06
(http://socal.mavin.com/pictures/aa/Dolch_lot_1_4.jpg)

*smug whistling*
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 14 May 2010, 19:59:24
Ok, found the 104 KBC sets on Taobao -> Click! (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=5259658137)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10013&stc=1&d=1273885035)


While searching I also found this (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=5406801527) here...

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10012&stc=1&d=1273885026)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Dirty Bint on Sat, 15 May 2010, 02:58:19
I seem to have lost the direction of this thread. Is this actually happening, ie, the order for the double shots or has it now been abandoned in favour of alternative options currently available.


If there is no decision within a week count me out.


Regards
Dirty Bint
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 15 May 2010, 05:47:48
Quote from: webwit;182222
I think what he is saying is that he already ordered what he will be selling to in three months, but he won't tell. Gotta hate the length of those production/shipping cycles..


Aye, I've noticed even in the beam spring that there are places around the edges where pressing it will not work properly.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: .Logic on Sat, 15 May 2010, 11:39:22
Quote from: Dirty Bint;182543
I seem to have lost the direction of this thread. Is this actually happening, ie, the order for the double shots or has it now been abandoned in favour of alternative options currently available.


If there is no decision within a week count me out.


Regards
Dirty Bint


+1

Sorry if this seems harsh, it's just that without a deadline this thread could continue forever.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sat, 15 May 2010, 12:25:49
To everyone wondering what the direction of this thread is:

majestouch (Elitekeyboards owner) is working with Signature Plastics right now to try to get good Filco doubleshots.

He says that he worked with them in the past and the DCS family that we were going to order does not fit the Filco well. He said that going non-standard could raise the setup costs significantly (basically, unless you have quanitity, it may raise the prices tremendously).

So now we have to decide if we're going to try to push for a quote (which could be very cost prohibitive with an order size of ~20 sets and requires some preparation) or if we're gonna wait on Majestouch.

EDIT: He also says they have a set of Filco keys on hand; he didn't specify if he provided them.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: Dirty Bint on Sat, 15 May 2010, 16:49:36
I will wait until majestouch comes up with something.

Definitely count me out.


Rgds
Dirty Bint
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: vhaarr on Sat, 15 May 2010, 17:47:32
How long would we have to wait?
And will Majestouch bring in enough in a first batch so that everyone who expressed interest in this thread could get it from elitekeyboards.com?

Like .Logic said, this thread needs a deadline.
But so does elitekeyboards.com.

Noone waits forever :)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sat, 15 May 2010, 18:00:35
Quote from: vhaarr
How long would we have to wait?
And will Majestouch bring in enough in a first batch so that everyone who expressed interest in this thread could get it from elitekeyboards.com?

Like .Logic said, this thread needs a deadline.
But so does elitekeyboards.com.

Noone waits forever :)

That's the tough part. As he said, he doesn't want to signal his every move.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: .Logic on Sat, 15 May 2010, 21:31:11
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;182773
That's the tough part. As he said, he doesn't want to signal his every move.


If majestouch is REALLY working with signature plastics on a set of double shots for the Filco, count me out.

I'd prefer to wait a little (or a lot) longer and get a set of keys that fit correctly.

:)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sat, 15 May 2010, 22:38:48
Quote from: .Logic

If majestouch is REALLY working with signature plastics on a set of double shots for the Filco, count me out.

I'd prefer to wait a little (or a lot) longer and get a set of keys that fit correctly.

:)
Look at pages 12 and 13.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: negidaku on Sat, 15 May 2010, 22:51:15
Maybe the people who wanted stealth keycaps could get a group order going for the KBC keyset instead? That would at least salvage some of the work that muchadoaboutnothing put into assembling the list.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: .Logic on Sun, 16 May 2010, 04:35:01
Thanks for getting this thread together muchado, at least it shows there is a definite interest for DS filco keys

:D
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: skcheng on Sun, 16 May 2010, 10:02:44
I suggest harvesting the correct keys for a double shot Filco.  It's not that difficult with so many Cherry POS boards languishing in warehouse storage facilities.   And no one likes typing on Cherry MY boards anyway.   Stick those Filco keys back on that POS board and give it away to someone who might use it.  

Linky here with the appropriate model numbers to search for:

The Anti-Otaku (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6924)

And some shots of my personal Double Shot Filco complete now with Geekhack key courtesy of Sixty:


(http://fototime.com/AA88584260947A5/standard.jpg)

(http://fototime.com/D17D09B872546C3/standard.jpg)

(http://fototime.com/662ABF27EC50D4F/standard.jpg)

(http://fototime.com/9A7FB00822BA28E/standard.jpg)
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sun, 16 May 2010, 12:10:35
Quote from: negidaku;182829
Maybe the people who wanted stealth keycaps could get a group order going for the KBC keyset instead? That would at least salvage some of the work that muchadoaboutnothing put into assembling the list.


I'd be happy to take a look into it, but I think the group discount would be outweighed by me having to get them and re-ship them.

If it was more economical by 10% or more it would be worth considering, in my opinion.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: boaby on Tue, 18 May 2010, 14:38:27
So between majestouch and muchado this now looks like a 105 UK set is out of the picture then right?
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 18 May 2010, 14:41:40
Maybe, but if you're in the UK, you might have other options.  Hit up Bruce from The Keyboard Co. in the Vendor Forum.  If there's enough interest, he might hit up Signature Plastics.  In fact, it might be a good idea if Bruce and Majestouch work together on it.
Title: Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested
Post by: boaby on Tue, 18 May 2010, 15:37:41
Good idea, if Bruce and majestouch pursued a single set of the 104key US layout with an additional 7 keys they'd satisfy people on both sides of the pond right?

The extra keys needed for the uk layout would be numrow2, numrow3, left-shift, backslash, apostrophe, hash and enter.

Is there any problems that would arise through that?