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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: tradercreep on Wed, 21 November 2018, 07:26:44
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Hi all, my first post in the forum tho.
I'm considering buying a Whitefox as my first compact keyboard (having a filco full size now) and really exicted for all the features and elegant look of it,
but I'm wondering if any of you experience electric shock when touching the metal body happening occasional on some metal cover device.
Hope someone can help me with this. ;D ;D ;D
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Welcome to Geekhack!
I can't comment on the Whitefox specifically, but I had one Apple aluminium keyboard that used to shock me every time I started using it. With its very low profile keycaps there wasn't any way to avoid nearly touching the metal case each time.
So I used to give it a slap before typing. To discharge the electricity, not to admonish the keyboard.
I have a couple of other similar keyboards, and none of them has ever zapped me.
So I would assume that it was a defect in that particular keyboard.
By extension any keyboard that zaps you is probably defective, and you could make a claim to have it replaced under warranty.
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If I touch my PC's aluminium enclosure, I feel a tingling but not a chock. I have been told that it is because the case is supposed to be earthed (through touching the PC's power supply) but that the power supply is not because it is connected to an unearthed wall socket. This is annoying, but the current is supposed to be very low and therefore harmless.
There are some cables that are shielded with braided metal strands around the wires inside the cable to protect against RF interference, and that shield could be connected to the plugs' shields at both ends — and to "earth" on the host side through the I/O shield.
In many older mechanical keyboards with shielded PS/2 cables, the cable has the shield ending in a lead that is bolted to the switch mounting plate to make it earthed.
Many USB cables are shielded and conduct electricity from one plug's shield to the other, but some cheaper cables do not.
In How to build your WhiteFox (http://"https://matt3o.com/how-to-build-your-whitefox/") it does not look as if there is such a earthing cable, but I think that perhaps the port's shield could be touching the enclosure sometimes.
So, if you do have unearthed wall sockets and a shielded USB cable then maybe the enclosure would carry a small voltage. But maybe you could mod your keyboard by opening it up and taping a layer of clear tape around the socket. I think that could insulate it from the enclosure.
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i get zapped by my alu customs at work all the time. sometimes they short and i gotta replug them :\
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If I touch my PC's aluminium enclosure, I feel a tingling but not a chock. I have been told that it is because the case is supposed to be earthed (through touching the PC's power supply) but that the power supply is not because it is connected to an unearthed wall socket. This is annoying, but the current is supposed to be very low and therefore harmless.
There are some cables that are shielded with braided metal strands around the wires inside the cable to protect against RF interference, and that shield could be connected to the plugs' shields at both ends — and to "earth" on the host side through the I/O shield.
In many older mechanical keyboards with shielded PS/2 cables, the cable has the shield ending in a lead that is bolted to the switch mounting plate to make it earthed.
Many USB cables are shielded and conduct electricity from one plug's shield to the other, but some cheaper cables do not.
In How to build your WhiteFox (http://"https://matt3o.com/how-to-build-your-whitefox/") it does not look as if there is such a earthing cable, but I think that perhaps the port's shield could be touching the enclosure sometimes.
So, if you do have unearthed wall sockets and a shielded USB cable then maybe the enclosure would carry a small voltage. But maybe you could mod your keyboard by opening it up and taping a layer of clear tape around the socket. I think that could insulate it from the enclosure.
That means your setup doesn't have an earth ground, or the potential is still too high (ineffective earthing).
The keyboard (whitefox) should have a ground somewhere, otherwise the static charge from the Human wouldn't leap if there was no potential .
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I get zapped a lot on my aluminum boards. Lots of static in the winter in my house. And I have to replug mine sometimes, too. I endorse the slap before touch method. Lol
Also, I use plastic and wooden cases a lot more at this time of year :)
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Hi all, my first post in the forum tho.
I'm considering buying a Whitefox as my first compact keyboard (having a filco full size now) and really exicted for all the features and elegant look of it,
but I'm wondering if any of you experience electric shock when touching the metal body happening occasional on some metal cover device.
Hope someone can help me with this. ;D ;D ;D
Yes...
When I first got my Vortex case I got zapped a few times but it wasn't bad, then one day I got hit with a 1/2in long spike... I had to unplug and reconnect it to get it to work again, but luckily it did. I grounded the usb wire shield to the case that evening and haven't had a problem since.
I have two aluminum cased keyboards, neither is grounded from the factory, the Filco wasn't because it wasn't meant to have an aluminum case, the other is a Chinese custom, it was designed for one, but it also does not have proper grounding. The pcb has spots for it, but since the pcb don't touch the case or plate, those are useless.
I'm not an electrician (I know some, but not an expert), but it has always been that anything metal connected to water or power that you can touch, should be grounded.
I have been told that it is because the case is supposed to be earthed (through touching the PC's power supply) but that the power supply is not because it is connected to an unearthed wall socket. This is annoying, but the current is supposed to be very low and therefore harmless.
No, it is not harmless, to the computer or you, especially with an aluminum keyboard.
Yes, the keyboard is low voltage but you are still connected to a hot power line. Ever see a PC hit by a nearby lightening strike or voltage spike? It's not pretty.
Old outlets without grounds were from a period when nothing required smooth consistent power. It was dangerous as it was, but it's even worse for sensitive electronics.
It may be a small wire and only carrying 5volts, however higher voltage has far less resistance, you can flow a TON of current through very small wires if you have higher voltage which is what you get in a spike or lightening strike.
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I cannot figure out if this thread is a series of rolling in-jokes or serious.
Are people really getting shocks/tingles from their metal keyboards... and if so why on earth are you still using them?
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It's definitely not a joke that metal keyboard casing can be not properly grounded and that a keyboard can reset from static discharges. I've never actually felt a shock from my keyboards, but I've been experiencing periodic static discharge on my keyboards at my new place--any keyboard with metal case, even the ones that didn't used to do this. For example my LZ-GH (among others), which I had used for a a few years without any such issues. Still figuring out why it's happening, because I know the socket everything is plugged into is properly grounded. Could be because there's a large area rug near my desk that's particularly good at building up static charge, combined with low humidity.
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It's definitely not a joke that metal keyboard casing can be not properly grounded and that a keyboard can reset from static discharges. I've never actually felt a shock from my keyboards, but I've been experiencing periodic static discharge on my keyboards at my new place--any keyboard with metal case, even the ones that didn't used to do this. For example my LZ-GH (among others), which I had used for a a few years without any such issues. Still figuring out why it's happening, because I know the socket everything is plugged into is properly grounded. Could be because there's a large area rug near my desk that's particularly good at building up static charge, combined with low humidity.
If you can’t figure it out you can do what I do. I keep a lightning cable for my phone plugged in to my computer. Every time I go to sit down, I grab the metal end and shock myself, provided I have built up enough static. Then I can safely use my keyboard :)
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It's definitely not a joke that metal keyboard casing can be not properly grounded and that a keyboard can reset from static discharges. I've never actually felt a shock from my keyboards, but I've been experiencing periodic static discharge on my keyboards at my new place--any keyboard with metal case, even the ones that didn't used to do this. For example my LZ-GH (among others), which I had used for a a few years without any such issues. Still figuring out why it's happening, because I know the socket everything is plugged into is properly grounded. Could be because there's a large area rug near my desk that's particularly good at building up static charge, combined with low humidity.
If you can’t figure it out you can do what I do. I keep a lightning cable for my phone plugged in to my computer. Every time I go to sit down, I grab the metal end and shock myself, provided I have built up enough static. Then I can safely use my keyboard :)
This used to be a problem for me, then got all hardwood flooring.. no more shocks.
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It's definitely not a joke that metal keyboard casing can be not properly grounded and that a keyboard can reset from static discharges. I've never actually felt a shock from my keyboards, but I've been experiencing periodic static discharge on my keyboards at my new place--any keyboard with metal case, even the ones that didn't used to do this. For example my LZ-GH (among others), which I had used for a a few years without any such issues. Still figuring out why it's happening, because I know the socket everything is plugged into is properly grounded. Could be because there's a large area rug near my desk that's particularly good at building up static charge, combined with low humidity.
This sounds... just wow. I am amazed that anyone would put up with something like this (I'm in IT, it's deeply ingrained that static belongs nowhere near IT gear).
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I'd be happy to try something to eliminate static, but nothing seems to work when it's really cold (and dry from the heater). Short of pulling up the carpet, that is.
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Are people really getting shocks/tingles from their metal keyboards... and if so why on earth are you still using them?
You won't get shocked from the keyboard, despite how it sounds, the static is provided by the person. USB doesn't provide enough power to shock person. Grounding it doesn't necessarily stop the static discharge, but it does keep it from damaging the keyboard or computer.
This is one reason I tell people they are a bit over rated.
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Are people really getting shocks/tingles from their metal keyboards... and if so why on earth are you still using them?
You won't get shocked from the keyboard, despite how it sounds, the static is provided by the person. USB doesn't provide enough power to shock person. Grounding it doesn't necessarily stop the static discharge, but it does keep it from damaging the keyboard or computer.
This is one reason I tell people they are a bit over rated.
Ah, I get it, so the problem isn't leakage from the keyboard case, it's just like touching a doorknob.
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Ah, I get it, so the problem isn't leakage from the keyboard case, it's just like touching a doorknob.
Yes.
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the answer here. I think I'm gonna fine with this babe.
I decided to get a Whitefox (programmable + metal body + Black Friday discount) is a deal I can't ignore. Now I'm really excited for my first compact keyboard :D :D :D