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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Entropia on Thu, 24 January 2019, 10:29:40

Title: I just ordered this...
Post by: Entropia on Thu, 24 January 2019, 10:29:40: Leopold FC980C White ANSI Topre 45g
https://mykeyboard.eu/catalogue/fc980c-white-ansi-topre-45g_81/

260€, shipping included, ugh agh, it hurts!

I already have a couple of FC980M (black case with front-printed black keycaps, with MX blacks), one at home and one at work. They are really fantastic keyboards and I really love the 1800 layout and how smooth the switches perform, as well of course the construction and finishes. The only thing that I have to criticize is that the keycaps got shiny earlier than expected (PBT). That's why I have chosen a white model now. I wonder if Leopold will release keycaps sets for these keyboards (model with mx switches). Although the front printed keycaps helped me a lot to learn to touch type, I sometimes miss proper legends on top of my keycaps.

This model with topres goes home. I just couldn't resist the temptation of trying topres any longer. I will keep both keyboards and use them, although if I enjoy topres, I suppose I will leave the FC980M more for gaming (although I don't really play videogames too much). It will be very interesting to be able to test and compare both keyboards side by side.
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 24 January 2019, 13:23:06: Congratulations. !!
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: Wazrach on Thu, 24 January 2019, 15:53:01: Quote from: Entropia on Thu, 24 January 2019, 10:29:40
Leopold FC980C White ANSI Topre 45g
https://mykeyboard.eu/catalogue/fc980c-white-ansi-topre-45g_81/

260€, shipping included, ugh agh, it hurts!

I already have a couple of FC980M (black case with front-printed black keycaps, with MX blacks), one at home and one at work. They are really fantastic keyboards and I really love the 1800 layout and how smooth the switches perform, as well of course the construction and finishes. The only thing that I have to criticize is that the keycaps got shiny earlier than expected (PBT). That's why I have chosen a white model now. I wonder if Leopold will release keycaps sets for these keyboards (model with mx switches). Although the front printed keycaps helped me a lot to learn to touch type, I sometimes miss proper legends on top of my keycaps.

This model with topres goes home. I just couldn't resist the temptation of trying topres any longer. I will keep both keyboards and use them, although if I enjoy topres, I suppose I will leave the FC980M more for gaming (although I don't really play videogames too much). It will be very interesting to be able to test and compare both keyboards side by side.

I've never tried Topre, but I know just how you feel! It's great waiting for your next keyboard to arrive.. the next keyboard fix, that is. ;P

Be sure to tell us how you find Topre. I've tried BTC and Scorpius keyboards, which apparently feel and sound better than Topre - and since I am accustomed to the delicious capacitive buckling springs switch, they didn't exactly make me go "wow". I guess I just like loud and pingy old keyboards more than modern quiet ones. If I do ever buy a Topre board, I know for a fact it will be a Leopold! They look great and appear to be built better than any other stock keyboards.
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: Entropia on Fri, 01 February 2019, 14:55:39: I'm writing this with the Leopold FC980 I ordered the other day. This is my review based on my first impressions, in case anyone is interested. Sorry for my English. I'll try to do my best.

I have read several comments by users about the need of an adaptation period of at least a week to really appreciate the quality of topres. So, I will be careful and will try no to be initially biased by any feelings of disappointment or fear to have made a mistake, which usually happens to me when I buy and try a new device.

The visuals and finishes are perfect (typically Leopold), featuring this fantastic 1800 layout that I love and to which I have get used during the last years (I own a FC980M with blacks). The modifier keys are maybe a little too dark, but I already knew that. The keycaps have a more pronounced texture than the model with cherries, which is good. They are a bit thinner. The wobble over the switch is small, just the same in both keyboards. The legends are elegant and clear. Unfortunatelly, there are some minor imperfections on the top of some of them such as the spacebar (left and right ends) and the backspace (middle). I've heard that these keycaps are made by Topre and not by Leopold. Maybe that's the reason that my FC980M doesn't exhibit these little defects. The key press is not totally new to me, as I had the chance to try topre in a switch tester some time ago. Typing with them is a unique experience, completely opposite to typing with liner switches. It feels like a membrane keyboard, with a longer and smoother throw. With my MX blacks I can type smoothly. With topres, it's much more like an impact with each key press. Unlike with linear switches, there's a notable resistance when you touch the key. Then it suddenly releases and the bottom is reached quickly. Then it snaps back. This makes the typing quite tactile. As regard performance, I'm doing it a bit slower at the moment (lack of practice). Accuracy is almost the same. I must say I can confirm what somebody said about the first row (function keys, etc) feeling lighter than the rest. Not a very important issue, but it's there. As regard the sound, it's not as glamorous and amazing as I expected. It's nice, but not better than the sound of the MX blacks on my FC980M (maybe the thick keycaps have something to do). What is a bit more disappointing is the sound of some long keys, and it's not the spacebar (which I was worried about, but sounds great), but for instance the backspace, which sounds more treble and hollow. On the other hand all these long keys feel perfect, with no mushiness at all, a problem that do occur on my FC980M, although it's minimal thanks to the modified Cherry stabs. The spacebar is the only key on the FC980C that feels a little scratchy, but it's something almost unnoticeable. By the way, I have already flipped the spacebar for better ergonomics. Finally, it's a bit sad that not extra keys are provided (unlike with other models). At least the practical plastic cover is included. The instructions come in Korean, as usual.

In conclusion, this is a keyboard that everyone should try because it's really different. Is it worth 250€? At the moment, I would say no. Maybe in a few weeks I might change my mind. Leopold means quality and this is no exception. The point is that I'm not very impressed by topres, maybe because I had too many expectations or because I'm too used to typing with linear switches, which are exceptionally good on the FC980M. Anyway, it will be interesting to use both keyboards in the future and see how my thoughts change.
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: method_ on Fri, 01 February 2019, 15:15:17: Ah! Congrats on your new board :)

As you mentioned Topre is definitely something to discover. My first personal experience has been similar to yours, but day after day I felt happier and happier to sit down at my desk and have this delicated sensation and sounds under my finger. I dont know if that actually happens but I feel after a little use and time they sliders become even more smooth than they already are originally. It all becomes very addictive. As a programmer who types a lot I've found myself come back to my Realforce or my FC980C constantly everytime I've tried to venture somewhere else.

Your case is interesting to me because in my naive mind the only thing that I'm curious to try are lubes vintage blacks/retooled blacks, with probably swapped 45g springs to make them lighter (and less tiring for long uses). MX Black never come up in discussions about "What are the MX switches closest to topre", but i'm trying to find something else very smooth, delicate and comfortable for typing, not "replicate perfectly" a topre switch.

So if you come up with more comparisons between the two I'll be happy to read !

m_
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: Entropia on Fri, 01 February 2019, 15:30:25: Retooled MX blacks are very very good. If you put them together with thick PBT keycaps and a good metal plate, they behave and sound exceptionally well in my opinion. However, you have to keep in mind that they are linear switches, so the typing experience is different (not worse nor better). I don't find them tiring. Maybe their smoothness and the fact that they allow typing without bottoming out makes them comfortable to me. I had a FC980M with reds before and they were terribly scratchy and pingy, so I returned it. No matter how good a keyboard is, if the switches are rubbish, the experience will be bad.
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: Entropia on Sat, 02 February 2019, 04:58:29: Some photos of the little problems with some keycaps, which I have noticed this morning with the daylight. The worst is the spacebar, although I will replace it with a PBT spacebar anyway.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/311mgd1.jpg)
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: navy2x on Sat, 02 February 2019, 17:59:17: The 1800 layout is really intriguing to me, but I’m worried about a few things. 1) The arrow keys being closer and offset downward might be weird. 2) The smaller right shift key; I could see myself missing the key a lot. 3) The small 0 key on the numpad. I’m afraid I would also miss it with my thumb. I have decided to go with a full size leopold R2SA for now. It’s currently in the mail and I can’t wait!
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: Entropia on Sun, 03 February 2019, 03:11:28: Those problems you mention are gone in a few weeks. It's just a matter of muscular memory. I had more trouble adapting to the ANSI layout, specially with the new smaller enter key. In my opinion, the only problem with the 1800 layout is the placement of the delete key. I swapped it with the numlock key and reprogrammed it.
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: ander on Sun, 03 February 2019, 04:58:19: Quote from: Entropia on Sat, 02 February 2019, 04:58:29
Some photos of the little problems with some keycaps, which I have noticed this morning with the daylight. The worst is the spacebar, although I will replace it with a PBT spacebar anyway.

Show Image
(http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/temp/keycaps-problem.jpg)

First, congratulations on such a classy board! I love the understated, elegant styling.

About the "flaws" you mentioned... Maybe they're more obvious in person, but in the photos you posted, they're hardly visible. If you look at anything hard enough, you can always find tiny inconsistencies—but really, why dwell on them? If I had a cool keeb like that, I'd be too busy enjoying it to worry about a few little bumps or whatever. IMHO, every moment you spend agonizing over such minor things is a moment of your life you'll never get back, y'know? Cheers!
Title: Re: I just ordered this...
Post by: Entropia on Sat, 09 February 2019, 14:42:43: After a few days with my new keyboard, I'm glad to say I'm very happy, and I have to confirm what I had read about this switches: they are addictive. Topres feel so unique that I sometimes regret not having anything to type, just for the joy of using my keyboard. Maybe I have noticed they are not the best switch for fast typing, although I'm not an expert typist. Maybe it's just a matter of practice. If I had to compare them to other switch, it would be the buckling springs. Although radically different, both aren't like anything else and one cannot succesfully describe them (you have to try them). To anyone in doubt, I encourage to try Topre, because they are really worth the money: very smooth, tactile and with a very pleasant sound that I love more and more every day.