I've read they are better than Cherry switches. Is it really true?
Novatouch sucks. Travel distance seems too long, and they're too heavy for fast typing. I don't know if lighter topre are acceptable.
When you spend too much for something, you are immediately in denial.
Yes.
I've read they are better than Cherry switches. Is it really true?
Yes.
yes. farming posts btw don't mind me
So long as you're buying topre it's all good.Yes.
yes. farming posts btw don't mind me
Yeah mate just getting my post count up so i can use the market place.
So long as you're buying topre it's all good.Yes.
yes. farming posts btw don't mind me
Yeah mate just getting my post count up so i can use the market place.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Nope i had almost every Topre board Hi Pro HHKB Pro 1/2 Realforce 87u 55g 30g 45g etc only board i haven't tried is the leopeold ones. Topre is NOT better then MX,Alps switches its all personal preference. People that claim Topre is the best keyboard build and beats every other MX/Alps or other switches are just trying to justify there high purchase. :)) IMO Alps switches beat Topre by miles.
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
That justifies the price, but not the value. For me, I just can't justify paying even 110$ if the only thing I'll gain from it is partway actuation, a USB plug and Windows keys.
Nope i had almost every Topre board Hi Pro HHKB Pro 1/2 Realforce 87u 55g 30g 45g etc only board i haven't tried is the leopeold ones. Topre is NOT better then MX,Alps switches its all personal preference. People that claim Topre is the best keyboard build and beats every other MX/Alps or other switches are just trying to justify there high purchase. :)) IMO Alps switches beat Topre by miles.
tbh i think the same goes for a lot of people who invest tonnes into alps switches trying to find that perfect NOS switch
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
Topre was designed for critical data entry. As such, being a capacitif switch it is immune to chatter — one could argue in that sense that Topre is 'better' than Cherry MX. Otherwise, for everything else, it is a completely subjective matter.Yes, I agree about Topre and immunity to chatter. I've never experienced chatter with my RF or HHKB. For that matter, I've never experienced chatter with any of my Cherry mx or clone boards. However, I've seen plenty of chatter with various Alps-switch boards. Alps switches are particularly prone to chatter arising from dirty and/or worn switches. Even so, I prefer typing on Alps than on any Cherry mx or clone switch. My overall favorites are Topre and IBM Model F.
The thing I heavily dislike about Topre is that I have to pay 250 dollars (assuming I'd buy a 104-key board) for a keyboard and another 100 or even more to make it perfect. I mean, for 250+ bucks I'd expect the keyboard to be perfect out of the box. I wouldn't mind much the (probably) mediocre tactility (after all, my CM Lite L is one of the less tactile rubber domes but it's still one of my favorite keyboards to date), but having to silence the keyboard and buy a spacebar that won't wear off in a month.. that's a no.
PBT keycaps are great, but my Compaq RT101 has all-PBT, even the spacebar. IDK how much it costed in 1995, but I bought it used for.. 20 dollars?
if this is in comparison to older dome with slider boards, you also get far better build quality, great keycaps, better options for customisability, a layout that isn't fullsize etc.
but i understand where you're coming from, i know some people are perfectly happy with old scorpius stuff, btc dome w/ slider and so on, but i'd rather pay the extra for the objectively better quality stuff (keycaps, build, switch potential, customisability)
Why do you have to do that? Just buying a silenced one if that's what you want. Have you actually used a non silenced Topre? There is a difference but normal Topre is perfectly acceptable in an office environment. What also doesn't make sense is MX is incredibly loud and you will need to go through the same thing.
PBT spacebars for Topre are cheap as well...and that's only if you care about the shine...lots of people don't...
And so to get what you want out of MX? What are you spending? And if you're comparing it to Compaq..lets be honest, if we want to compare any high end keyboard to any low end keyboard, of course the low end is going to have more value...for 10 dollars you can get a very functional keyboard...What we pay in general for high end keyboards most people would think is a complete waste of money...SO the question is what does that extra quality mean to you and how much are you willing to pay.
But sounds like to me you haven't tried it or owned it...as the boards don't have mediocre tactility unless you're looking at 30g.
I never compared Topre to MX. I compared Topre to other rubber dome keyboards I have. And I think those keyboards are similar to Topre, and yet I paid a fraction of the RF104's price.
The thing I heavily dislike about Topre is that I have to pay 250 dollars (assuming I'd buy a 104-key board) for a keyboard and another 100 or even more to make it perfect. I mean, for 250+ bucks I'd expect the keyboard to be perfect out of the box. I wouldn't mind much the (probably) mediocre tactility (after all, my CM Lite L is one of the less tactile rubber domes but it's still one of my favorite keyboards to date), but having to silence the keyboard and buy a spacebar that won't wear off in a month.. that's a no.
PBT keycaps are great, but my Compaq RT101 has all-PBT, even the spacebar. IDK how much it costed in 1995, but I bought it used for.. 20 dollars?
Why do you have to do that? Just buying a silenced one if that's what you want. Have you actually used a non silenced Topre? There is a difference but normal Topre is perfectly acceptable in an office environment. What also doesn't make sense is MX is incredibly loud and you will need to go through the same thing.
PBT spacebars for Topre are cheap as well...and that's only if you care about the shine...lots of people don't...
And so to get what you want out of MX? What are you spending? And if you're comparing it to Compaq..lets be honest, if we want to compare any high end keyboard to any low end keyboard, of course the low end is going to have more value...for 10 dollars you can get a very functional keyboard...What we pay in general for high end keyboards most people would think is a complete waste of money...SO the question is what does that extra quality mean to you and how much are you willing to pay.
But sounds like to me you haven't tried it or owned it...as the boards don't have mediocre tactility unless you're looking at 30g.
Normal topre is too loud to my ears. It is way louder than mx.
Normal topre is too loud to my ears. It is way louder than mx.
Not according to db meters...
MX is incredibly loud unless you have a way to silence them..or have silent MX...
Normal topre is too loud to my ears. It is way louder than mx.
Not according to db meters...
MX is incredibly loud unless you have a way to silence them..or have silent MX...
o-rings work well, and yes, topre is too loud.
That's no different to modding.....??? Do you have any idea how long does it take to mod a novatouch? Hours. An the outcome is not always perfect.
I've got a novatouch and the unsilenced one is way louder than mx with orings. It was unbearable. The silenced novatouch is probably quieter, but is unusable, because it sucks.
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
Anyone can copy topre because there's no patent on that.
It isn't available somewhere else or sold by other brands because no one cares about that inferior technology.
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
Anyone can copy topre because there's no patent on that.
It isn't available somewhere else or sold by other brands because no one cares about that inferior technology.
uhhhh okay? i mean they wouldn't have made the move to american and chinese distribution centres if no one cared about them
also, topre keyboards are some of the most reliable period, especially when it comes to chatter and dirt resistance. their lifespan is also super long because of their contactless nature, so they're far from inferior, even if you haven't made it clear what they're inferior to??? clones??
there are plenty of clones out there that can emulate the topre experience, but none of them match the quality of a realforce, fcxx0c, etc. so people are gonna continue to buy the genuine article.
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
Anyone can copy topre because there's no patent on that.
It isn't available somewhere else or sold by other brands because no one cares about that inferior technology.
uhhhh okay? i mean they wouldn't have made the move to american and chinese distribution centres if no one cared about them
also, topre keyboards are some of the most reliable period, especially when it comes to chatter and dirt resistance. their lifespan is also super long because of their contactless nature, so they're far from inferior, even if you haven't made it clear what they're inferior to??? clones??
there are plenty of clones out there that can emulate the topre experience, but none of them match the quality of a realforce, fcxx0c, etc. so people are gonna continue to buy the genuine article.
Mmm super long lifespan what? Do you think that lasts more a spring or a rubber membrane? What's the most common failing point of a 40 years old model f or of a beamspring? And beside the obvious answer, topre simply sucks.
No.
Because once you use them you'll realize how pointless everything else is and not be tempted to spend $1ks on muh MX kustoms.
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
Anyone can copy topre because there's no patent on that.
It isn't available somewhere else or sold by other brands because no one cares about that inferior technology.
uhhhh okay? i mean they wouldn't have made the move to american and chinese distribution centres if no one cared about them
also, topre keyboards are some of the most reliable period, especially when it comes to chatter and dirt resistance. their lifespan is also super long because of their contactless nature, so they're far from inferior, even if you haven't made it clear what they're inferior to??? clones??
there are plenty of clones out there that can emulate the topre experience, but none of them match the quality of a realforce, fcxx0c, etc. so people are gonna continue to buy the genuine article.
Mmm super long lifespan what? Do you think that lasts more a spring or a rubber membrane? What's the most common failing point of a 40 years old model f or of a beamspring? And beside the obvious answer, topre simply sucks.
not sure if you're trolling at this point, but yes they absolutely last longer than a standard membrane keyboard... they're rated at 50m+ actuations
when you have to draw on two of the most revered and over-engineered keyboards/switches in history to prove your point you're only complimenting topre and doing me a favour (thanks), but honestly i would say topre is more reliable than at least beamspring, whose switches have an insane amount of moving parts - if you want to carry out a comprehensive restoration you often need to disassemble each and every one of them in order to do so. the mounts for the caps break, the contamination shield breaks up and gets inside them, they get overcome with rust etc...
topre is a modern switch that's still in production and available to this day though, so spouting the virtues of industrial keyboards that cost at least a dozen times as much back in the day makes about as much sense as your irrational hate for it
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
Anyone can copy topre because there's no patent on that.
It isn't available somewhere else or sold by other brands because no one cares about that inferior technology.
uhhhh okay? i mean they wouldn't have made the move to american and chinese distribution centres if no one cared about them
also, topre keyboards are some of the most reliable period, especially when it comes to chatter and dirt resistance. their lifespan is also super long because of their contactless nature, so they're far from inferior, even if you haven't made it clear what they're inferior to??? clones??
there are plenty of clones out there that can emulate the topre experience, but none of them match the quality of a realforce, fcxx0c, etc. so people are gonna continue to buy the genuine article.
Mmm super long lifespan what? Do you think that lasts more a spring or a rubber membrane? What's the most common failing point of a 40 years old model f or of a beamspring? And beside the obvious answer, topre simply sucks.
not sure if you're trolling at this point, but yes they absolutely last longer than a standard membrane keyboard... they're rated at 50m+ actuations
when you have to draw on two of the most revered and over-engineered keyboards/switches in history to prove your point you're only complimenting topre and doing me a favour (thanks), but honestly i would say topre is more reliable than at least beamspring, whose switches have an insane amount of moving parts - if you want to carry out a comprehensive restoration you often need to disassemble each and every one of them in order to do so. the mounts for the caps break, the contamination shield breaks up and gets inside them, they get overcome with rust etc...
topre is a modern switch that's still in production and available to this day though, so spouting the virtues of industrial keyboards that cost at least a dozen times as much back in the day makes about as much sense as your irrational hate for it
I can't reply to such a big number of idiotic ramblings. What do you think that lasts longer, a rubber membrane or the spring of a cherry switch?
he's rightNo.
Because once you use them you'll realize how pointless everything else is and not be tempted to spend $1ks on muh MX kustoms.
LOL what?
eh no one really said anything about mx until the last minute
of course having a good old meme on topre is a tradition as old as time itself, and that's all fine, but when people start spreading misinformation because their blood genuinely boils over the thought of people enjoying a switch with some rubber in it, i think things could use a little heat
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
Anyone can copy topre because there's no patent on that.
It isn't available somewhere else or sold by other brands because no one cares about that inferior technology.
uhhhh okay? i mean they wouldn't have made the move to american and chinese distribution centres if no one cared about them
also, topre keyboards are some of the most reliable period, especially when it comes to chatter and dirt resistance. their lifespan is also super long because of their contactless nature, so they're far from inferior, even if you haven't made it clear what they're inferior to??? clones??
there are plenty of clones out there that can emulate the topre experience, but none of them match the quality of a realforce, fcxx0c, etc. so people are gonna continue to buy the genuine article.
Mmm super long lifespan what? Do you think that lasts more a spring or a rubber membrane? What's the most common failing point of a 40 years old model f or of a beamspring? And beside the obvious answer, topre simply sucks.
not sure if you're trolling at this point, but yes they absolutely last longer than a standard membrane keyboard... they're rated at 50m+ actuations
when you have to draw on two of the most revered and over-engineered keyboards/switches in history to prove your point you're only complimenting topre and doing me a favour (thanks), but honestly i would say topre is more reliable than at least beamspring, whose switches have an insane amount of moving parts - if you want to carry out a comprehensive restoration you often need to disassemble each and every one of them in order to do so. the mounts for the caps break, the contamination shield breaks up and gets inside them, they get overcome with rust etc...
topre is a modern switch that's still in production and available to this day though, so spouting the virtues of industrial keyboards that cost at least a dozen times as much back in the day makes about as much sense as your irrational hate for it
I can't reply to such a big number of idiotic ramblings. What do you think that lasts longer, a rubber membrane or the spring of a cherry switch?
you can’t reply because you have no actual arguments, you sit there and type one sentence in response to my actual points after all your comparisons fall flat. the fact that you’re calling topre a ‘rubber membrane’ only further proves that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, the switch doesn’t involve a membrane in any way.
and yes, topre and cherry are pretty much the same in terms of reliability. i’ve already explained why, but it’s pretty clear you’re way too devoted to riding the topre hate train without even knowing why. keep it up champ, maybe you’ll find happiness someday.
@rowdy - ansi is actually quite popular in japan, due in no small part to the astronomical success of the hhkb - a good example is the recent announcement of realforce for mac on the realforce twitter page, there are quite a few japanese people requesting a US layout version in the comments. obviously you’re right though, the ansi stuff has the added bonus of international appeal too.
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
Anyone can copy topre because there's no patent on that.
It isn't available somewhere else or sold by other brands because no one cares about that inferior technology.
uhhhh okay? i mean they wouldn't have made the move to american and chinese distribution centres if no one cared about them
also, topre keyboards are some of the most reliable period, especially when it comes to chatter and dirt resistance. their lifespan is also super long because of their contactless nature, so they're far from inferior, even if you haven't made it clear what they're inferior to??? clones??
there are plenty of clones out there that can emulate the topre experience, but none of them match the quality of a realforce, fcxx0c, etc. so people are gonna continue to buy the genuine article.
Mmm super long lifespan what? Do you think that lasts more a spring or a rubber membrane? What's the most common failing point of a 40 years old model f or of a beamspring? And beside the obvious answer, topre simply sucks.
not sure if you're trolling at this point, but yes they absolutely last longer than a standard membrane keyboard... they're rated at 50m+ actuations
when you have to draw on two of the most revered and over-engineered keyboards/switches in history to prove your point you're only complimenting topre and doing me a favour (thanks), but honestly i would say topre is more reliable than at least beamspring, whose switches have an insane amount of moving parts - if you want to carry out a comprehensive restoration you often need to disassemble each and every one of them in order to do so. the mounts for the caps break, the contamination shield breaks up and gets inside them, they get overcome with rust etc...
topre is a modern switch that's still in production and available to this day though, so spouting the virtues of industrial keyboards that cost at least a dozen times as much back in the day makes about as much sense as your irrational hate for it
I can't reply to such a big number of idiotic ramblings. What do you think that lasts longer, a rubber membrane or the spring of a cherry switch?
you can’t reply because you have no actual arguments, you sit there and type one sentence in response to my actual points after all your comparisons fall flat. the fact that you’re calling topre a ‘rubber membrane’ only further proves that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, the switch doesn’t involve a membrane in any way.
and yes, topre and cherry are pretty much the same in terms of reliability. i’ve already explained why, but it’s pretty clear you’re way too devoted to riding the topre hate train without even knowing why. keep it up champ, maybe you’ll find happiness someday.
@rowdy - ansi is actually quite popular in japan, due in no small part to the astronomical success of the hhkb - a good example is the recent announcement of realforce for mac on the realforce twitter page, there are quite a few japanese people requesting a US layout version in the comments. obviously you’re right though, the ansi stuff has the added bonus of international appeal too.
I'm not replying because you write too much. I ask it again, do you think that lasts longer a cherry mx switch made of durable plastic and a spring, or the rubbery and superflexible parts of a topre?
I don't hate topre. I don't hate you. You're just objects.
me wants to try topre uwu
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
Anyone can copy topre because there's no patent on that.
It isn't available somewhere else or sold by other brands because no one cares about that inferior technology.
uhhhh okay? i mean they wouldn't have made the move to american and chinese distribution centres if no one cared about them
also, topre keyboards are some of the most reliable period, especially when it comes to chatter and dirt resistance. their lifespan is also super long because of their contactless nature, so they're far from inferior, even if you haven't made it clear what they're inferior to??? clones??
there are plenty of clones out there that can emulate the topre experience, but none of them match the quality of a realforce, fcxx0c, etc. so people are gonna continue to buy the genuine article.
Mmm super long lifespan what? Do you think that lasts more a spring or a rubber membrane? What's the most common failing point of a 40 years old model f or of a beamspring? And beside the obvious answer, topre simply sucks.
not sure if you're trolling at this point, but yes they absolutely last longer than a standard membrane keyboard... they're rated at 50m+ actuations
when you have to draw on two of the most revered and over-engineered keyboards/switches in history to prove your point you're only complimenting topre and doing me a favour (thanks), but honestly i would say topre is more reliable than at least beamspring, whose switches have an insane amount of moving parts - if you want to carry out a comprehensive restoration you often need to disassemble each and every one of them in order to do so. the mounts for the caps break, the contamination shield breaks up and gets inside them, they get overcome with rust etc...
topre is a modern switch that's still in production and available to this day though, so spouting the virtues of industrial keyboards that cost at least a dozen times as much back in the day makes about as much sense as your irrational hate for it
I can't reply to such a big number of idiotic ramblings. What do you think that lasts longer, a rubber membrane or the spring of a cherry switch?
you can’t reply because you have no actual arguments, you sit there and type one sentence in response to my actual points after all your comparisons fall flat. the fact that you’re calling topre a ‘rubber membrane’ only further proves that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, the switch doesn’t involve a membrane in any way.
and yes, topre and cherry are pretty much the same in terms of reliability. i’ve already explained why, but it’s pretty clear you’re way too devoted to riding the topre hate train without even knowing why. keep it up champ, maybe you’ll find happiness someday.
@rowdy - ansi is actually quite popular in japan, due in no small part to the astronomical success of the hhkb - a good example is the recent announcement of realforce for mac on the realforce twitter page, there are quite a few japanese people requesting a US layout version in the comments. obviously you’re right though, the ansi stuff has the added bonus of international appeal too.
I'm not replying because you write too much. I ask it again, do you think that lasts longer a cherry mx switch made of durable plastic and a spring, or the rubbery and superflexible parts of a topre?
I don't hate topre. I don't hate you. You're just objects.
people always forget that topre keyboards are intended for the japanese domestic market, and thus most prices in the west are inflated because of logistics and other import-related fees
brand new realforces/hhkbs are available starting at ~$170-175 - obviously that still isn't 'affordable' by comparison to most low-mid range options but it seems like people base their pricing off of what smartimports charges and pretend that that's the rrp topre themselves set or something.
it's incredibly easy to get used topre for very cheap in japan too, think perfectly clean 87us around the $110 mark and older standard jis stuff for even less
also if you're wearing out your abs spacebars in a month i would suggest taking a shower
That's a shame! Why doesn't Topre do as Cherry make them worldwide avaliable? Thank you all for all the answers. Funny thing this only makes this decision to get a Topre keyboard even harder.
i think they're working on it actually - fujitsu is handling distribution for them in the us as of recently, and they established themselves in china too with the release of the pfu r2. whether they'll continue the process officially in europe remains to be seen, but for now i believe there are a couple of third party options. obviously prices are notably higher in all of these places though.
Anyone can copy topre because there's no patent on that.
It isn't available somewhere else or sold by other brands because no one cares about that inferior technology.
uhhhh okay? i mean they wouldn't have made the move to american and chinese distribution centres if no one cared about them
also, topre keyboards are some of the most reliable period, especially when it comes to chatter and dirt resistance. their lifespan is also super long because of their contactless nature, so they're far from inferior, even if you haven't made it clear what they're inferior to??? clones??
there are plenty of clones out there that can emulate the topre experience, but none of them match the quality of a realforce, fcxx0c, etc. so people are gonna continue to buy the genuine article.
Mmm super long lifespan what? Do you think that lasts more a spring or a rubber membrane? What's the most common failing point of a 40 years old model f or of a beamspring? And beside the obvious answer, topre simply sucks.
not sure if you're trolling at this point, but yes they absolutely last longer than a standard membrane keyboard... they're rated at 50m+ actuations
when you have to draw on two of the most revered and over-engineered keyboards/switches in history to prove your point you're only complimenting topre and doing me a favour (thanks), but honestly i would say topre is more reliable than at least beamspring, whose switches have an insane amount of moving parts - if you want to carry out a comprehensive restoration you often need to disassemble each and every one of them in order to do so. the mounts for the caps break, the contamination shield breaks up and gets inside them, they get overcome with rust etc...
topre is a modern switch that's still in production and available to this day though, so spouting the virtues of industrial keyboards that cost at least a dozen times as much back in the day makes about as much sense as your irrational hate for it
I can't reply to such a big number of idiotic ramblings. What do you think that lasts longer, a rubber membrane or the spring of a cherry switch?
you can’t reply because you have no actual arguments, you sit there and type one sentence in response to my actual points after all your comparisons fall flat. the fact that you’re calling topre a ‘rubber membrane’ only further proves that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, the switch doesn’t involve a membrane in any way.
and yes, topre and cherry are pretty much the same in terms of reliability. i’ve already explained why, but it’s pretty clear you’re way too devoted to riding the topre hate train without even knowing why. keep it up champ, maybe you’ll find happiness someday.
@rowdy - ansi is actually quite popular in japan, due in no small part to the astronomical success of the hhkb - a good example is the recent announcement of realforce for mac on the realforce twitter page, there are quite a few japanese people requesting a US layout version in the comments. obviously you’re right though, the ansi stuff has the added bonus of international appeal too.
I'm not replying because you write too much. I ask it again, do you think that lasts longer a cherry mx switch made of durable plastic and a spring, or the rubbery and superflexible parts of a topre?
I don't hate topre. I don't hate you. You're just objects.
i'm sorry 3-4 lines is too much for you. the topre switch is also made of 'durable plastic and a spring' coincidentally, and just because they use rubber doesn't automatically make them worse. i already said it, but the contactless nature of the switch gives it an edge. topre (50m+ actuations) is actually rated higher than cherry mx (20-50m depending on the switch). so yes, they do, and i can speak from firsthand experience having owned multiple topre keyboards from the 80s, which all feel and work fine (and of course the same can be said for most mx of the same era).
You actually believe in what you've just said. And you believe that rubber is more durable than plastic too....
I suppose the rubber material will eventually disintegrate / lose its properties. Do we have actual research about this? Topre Realforce / HHKB keyboards are relatively new products (we are talking 2000s) but I guess we have somewhat similar rubber dome mechanic keyboards from older era.
Still, we are talking about decades of hard use without fear of chattering or other mechanical malfunctions. Sounds pretty ****ing fool proof to me. And aftermarket domes are a thing now, mind you.
I have to update my initial response... After having tons of topre and mx boards.. A custom lubed zealio is a far more rewarding typing experience.. Topre just feels more mushy the more and more you venture out into enthusiast tuned switches.. Want a quiet version of the zealios? Zilents are your switch.. Ive tuned both and honestly getting the topre sound isnt that hard from an mx style switch if you understand keyboard acoustics and how to tune them.. Ive got a dolch pac that I honestly think is tuned to be more thocky and better sounding than any topre board.. And I used to push topre hard.. I think its a phase everyone goes though.. You dont have to do much to a stock topre to feel like youve hit end game with the sound.. Tactility honestly leaves something to be desired, and the mushiness of the keys isnt fully understood or realized with having experienced a properly tuned tactile switch.. But this is like, just my opinion and stuff.. My btc was 20.00 new on ebay and its a better feeling tactile experience than topre imo...
I have to update my initial response... After having tons of topre and mx boards.. A custom lubed zealio is a far more rewarding typing experience.. Topre just feels more mushy the more and more you venture out into enthusiast tuned switches.. Want a quiet version of the zealios? Zilents are your switch.. Ive tuned both and honestly getting the topre sound isnt that hard from an mx style switch if you understand keyboard acoustics and how to tune them.. Ive got a dolch pac that I honestly think is tuned to be more thocky and better sounding than any topre board.. And I used to push topre hard.. I think its a phase everyone goes though.. You dont have to do much to a stock topre to feel like youve hit end game with the sound.. Tactility honestly leaves something to be desired, and the mushiness of the keys isnt fully understood or realized with having experienced a properly tuned tactile switch.. But this is like, just my opinion and stuff.. My btc was 20.00 new on ebay and its a better feeling tactile experience than topre imo...
I, for one, would be interested hearing this Mx keyboard that is tuned to sound like Topre and how you achieved it.
i posted a video of one of more thockier builds here in the keyboard section, but honestly its all about controlling reverb and what kind of material your keyboard is made of.. Topre switches have a plastic housing with more resonance and lower frequencies, so you tune your mx variants to sound like that. first off is dampening that loud high pitch alot of mx clear housings make, you can mitigate alot of it with lube, and you can control the reverb by getting rid of any air volume in the keyboard, this gets rid of the reverb chamber alot of boards have..
i posted a video of one of more thockier builds here in the keyboard section, but honestly its all about controlling reverb and what kind of material your keyboard is made of.. Topre switches have a plastic housing with more resonance and lower frequencies, so you tune your mx variants to sound like that. first off is dampening that loud high pitch alot of mx clear housings make, you can mitigate alot of it with lube, and you can control the reverb by getting rid of any air volume in the keyboard, this gets rid of the reverb chamber alot of boards have..
This one https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100272.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100272.0)?
I have to admit there are similarities. Topre still has a lot more rounded "thock" but I guess that comes hand in hand with the "mushiness".
me wants to try topre uwu
Get a novatouch, but be prepared for a complicated modding that will take 2-3 hours to make it silent.
And be prepared to be deluded after that.
No.
Because once you use them you'll realize how pointless everything else is and not be tempted to spend $1ks on muh MX kustoms.
me wants to try topre uwu
Get a novatouch, but be prepared for a complicated modding that will take 2-3 hours to make it silent.
And be prepared to be deluded after that.
I literally just finished doing the KBDFans silence-x rings mod on my Novatouch about an hour ago. Alphas and small mods sound great now. Bigger stabilized keys are still obnoxious, even after lubing. Still too heavy for my taste (didn't expect that to change, of course).
The best lifehack I've learned this past year has been this: Big keys (say, bigger than 2.5u) are always annoying to make them feel and sound good.
So... don't buy or build keyboards with big keys! Problem solved. Gordian knot undone.
Enter: The HHKB JP! Topre! Arrow keys! Small spacebars that sound the same as the Shift keys! 2 thumb keys for toggling layers just like an ortho board! All that and with some lubing (no silencing even required), it's the best damn board I've tried so far.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yPSuo.jpg)
That might partly explain why I like this compact NIZ board so much. A lot of people have complained about 4.75u spacebar for obvious keyswapping reasons, but to be honest it's my favorite part of the board. It makes a big difference in a Mac-based layout, where the command keys are more ergonomically reachable, similar to the Macbook Pro's 5u spacebar. I've been slowly growing to dislike large spacebars. The Costar-style stabilizers also work well, although they're a pain when changing stabilized keycaps.I saw that Topre sells a couple of Mac keyboards in Japan that look like they're based on the JIS layout with its little space bar. They should really try to sell those in the US, even with the small space bar.
I've read some threads around here that claim that the Topre switches may become stiffer and heavier over time.
I've read some threads around here that claim that the Topre switches may become stiffer and heavier over time.
Why do people keep saying this? How many membrane keyboards get 'stiffer over time' and if the answer is zero (as in my experience) then why would hybrid capacitive? The rubber doesn't 'stiffen up' and it's not like the metal coil spring under the rubber membrane stiffens up either.
OP, did you end up trying out a Topre? I was in the same boat as you a month ago, and was curious enough, after assembling a little collection of various MX builds, to try the Topre experience everyone was talking about. So I ordered an HHKB BT from Amazon, full price (ouch), expecting to try it out and send it back thanks to their generous return policy. Long story short, I didn't return it. I fell deeply and madly in love with it. It's true that Topre is not nearly as customizable as MX and in fact aside from the ability to swap out the domes for BKE ones, the Topre ecosystem is pretty boring. But damn, it just feels and sounds so good to type on. I'm still getting used to having to use a modifier for arrow keys, but otherwise I love the layout. In fact, I've now programmed the \ key to be backspace on all my MX keebs because it's so much more ergonomic.
See, now you did it. Now you have to try a Realforce and a Leopold. Otherwise you'll never know...
See, now you did it. Now you have to try a Realforce and a Leopold. Otherwise you'll never know...
No. Stop. Please stop. Really, stop. My wallet is crying.
Nopre is the real hero. Out of the box silencing rings, mx stems, also can be BKE'd or domeswapped with full sheets from OEM, costar stabilizers, programmable, and RGB options.
Stock Topre is:
- Loud
- Expensive base cost
- Expensive or sh*tty MX stem options (swap from donor Novatouch, or wobbly/tilted aftermarket sliders like JTK
- Aftermarket Hasu daughterboard to add programability
- Topre stabilizers :(
- Aftermarket painfully tedious process to add silencing rings
Who sells these Nopre keyboards?Nobody
I noticed something, but I think HHKB right out of the box does have its issues, but once you correct them with silencing rings, apply some lube, and replacing the stock domes on there, it becomes one of the best keyboards one can possibly have if you're into Topre and rubber domes of course. I modded mine with Silence X rings and some BKE Redux Ultra Lights and now it's once again my main driver more than ever. My typing speed has shot up to 101 WPM with 100% accuracy on many of the tests I've taken. :)
Meanwhile with Realforce, I still like my two boards the way they are and they don't make as much noise stock as the HHKB did.
Stock topre loud? I respectfully disagree.
Type Heavens are pretty loud stock, too. I had an un-silenced Realforce 104UB that seemed fairly quiet, though.
Part of the appeal of the HHKB is the noise...but everyone can do what they want...
It’s definitely a personal preference thing.I noticed something, but I think HHKB right out of the box does have its issues, but once you correct them with silencing rings, apply some lube, and replacing the stock domes on there, it becomes one of the best keyboards one can possibly have if you're into Topre and rubber domes of course. I modded mine with Silence X rings and some BKE Redux Ultra Lights and now it's once again my main driver more than ever. My typing speed has shot up to 101 WPM with 100% accuracy on many of the tests I've taken. :)
Meanwhile with Realforce, I still like my two boards the way they are and they don't make as much noise stock as the HHKB did.
Part of the appeal of the HHKB is the noise...but everyone can do what they want...
I don't have any Topre or Topre-like keyboards right now but I personally loved almost every single one I've ever owned.
I've had:
1. Realforce 87U
2. 2 Leopold FC660Cs
3. 2 HHKBs with hipro caps
4. Novatouch
5. A heavily modified BTC5100c that felt a lot like a topre board.
My favorite was my second HHKB though. It had a Hasu, BKE domes, and HiPro at one point. Miss that keyboard every day.
I'm never going back to rubber. Even with overtravel I still hate the feel.If typing in a keyboard feels good to you, why do you care what it’s made of?
I personally use cherry browns most of the time for the custom switches and keycaps, which is mostly for fun. But I think topre switches feel better if you're just comparing side by side.I completely agree with this. Cherry keyboards tend to be so much more interesting looking with custom keycaps, but I enjoy typing on Topre keyboards more. I tend to type faster on an MX brown keyboard than a Topre, but it's not like my job depends on my typing speed. For the moment, at least, I have a Topre keyboard at home and a Ducky at work. When I had a Topre at work, I had more people comment on how nice it was to type on, but no one commented on its looks.
55g Topre is GOAT
I personally use cherry browns most of the time for the custom switches and keycaps, which is mostly for fun. But I think topre switches feel better if you're just comparing side by side.I completely agree with this. Cherry keyboards tend to be so much more interesting looking with custom keycaps, but I enjoy typing on Topre keyboards more. I tend to type faster on an MX brown keyboard than a Topre, but it's not like my job depends on my typing speed. For the moment, at least, I have a Topre keyboard at home and a Ducky at work. When I had a Topre at work, I had more people comment on how nice it was to type on, but no one commented on its looks.
55g Topre is GOAT
I actually disagree...I love the sound of the regular HHKB...whereas I think RFs are better silenced...Part of the appeal of the HHKB is the noise...but everyone can do what they want...
Agreed, but the rattle of the upstroke on an unsilenced HHKB is not a nice sound. When you add rings to silence that, you just hear the soft little pop sounds which are divine.
I loved Topre, but then I discovered Zealios/Zilents v2 and much prefer the tactility on those. I've since sold all my topre boards. If you can go to a meetup and try a Zealios v2 and compare that with Topre, I would recommend it.