geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: phototristan on Sun, 16 May 2010, 21:25:15

Title: Realforce Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Sun, 16 May 2010, 21:25:15: Which board has a better feel and can anyone describe the differences between the Topre 87U and the Filco Brown Cherry for quiet yet tactile boards? I'm looking to get a board that is tactile yet quiet for those times when my Model M is too chattery.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: elbowglue on Sun, 16 May 2010, 23:07:10: I vote cherry browns. However PCB mounted cherry browns are superior to filco cherry browns, as the plate gives you a really harsh landing.

I have tried Topres, the cherry brown plate mounted, various cherry brown PCB mounted. I have finally settled on the Compaq MX11800 sawed off version as my ultimate board. In fact I have taken the hacksaw to two of them already and I love it. The MX11800 is a much more refined keyboard by the way if you use some foamy tape to stabilize the PCB, as it flexes a bit in it's case.

Topres feel really nice but they don't give you any rebound force, they feel like typing on clay tablets that absorb your force rather than typing on springs that bounce your finger back.

45 gram topre switches have a nice snap to them. It's almost comparable to cherry blues in my opinion, they feel quite nice going down. 35 gram topre switches are really mushy, not all to my liking. On the way up, cherry switches have the advantage as they will push you back up whereas topres will not.

Topres to me feel like a really good rubber dome board. There is nothing mechanical about the switch in my opinion, the small spring in the switch hardly provides any force return, it just helps the switch "throw". Try a really good rubber dome board, and you will know what a topre feels like.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Sun, 16 May 2010, 23:09:48: Thanks, that's good to know. Is the Cherry Brown as quiet as Topre?

Also, should I consider a Filco Cherry Black board at all?
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: didjamatic on Sun, 16 May 2010, 23:12:04: I have owned 3 Topre boards (103u, 87u variable, 87u all 55g) and countless Cherry MX equipped boards...

The Topre is more like a woman, the Cherry is more like a sports car. Both are fun, expensive and can get you in trouble.

EDIT - In response to your last post, Topres are quieter than Cherry Browns nearly always, they are deeper and more thuddy/thocky than Cherry browns and have a soft landing that is quiet. The Cherry brown switch itself is very quiet, but if you type hard it will bottom out and "clack". Blacks are heavier and smooth and gamers like them. The only way you will know what you like is to try each for a period of time. When debating what to try first, go for the cheaper option and you might save yourself a chunk of cash.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWS4V99sFYI) is a video of someone typing very lightly on the 2 side by side.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwec1QexcOw) is some great video/audio of a Topre.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Sun, 16 May 2010, 23:21:08: Hmm, just based on sound, I seem to like the Topre, it sounds sorta yummy like you just want to type on it...
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 17 May 2010, 00:05:31
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Mon, 17 May 2010, 00:45:13: Quote from: Rajagra;183021

The Rubber Dome as crappy flip-flops. Nice.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 17 May 2010, 07:22:43: What elbowglue said. I swap out the HHKB and G80-1863 quite a bit. The Cherrys are quite a bit like a sports car. They're light and springy, and they give the best typing experience, IMO (blues are good as well). Topres are pretty smooth and the keyboards that use them tend to be some of the best made on the market. Niether the Cherry-made 'boards I have nor the Filcos I owned in the past come close to my HHKB and 23U in terms of quality. Topres don't really excite me much, though, in terms of typing, but I really like the HHKB's layout, so I tend to break it out from time-to-time, especially when using my laptop. That said, I don't think I would spend the money on and 87U or a 103U as the switch just isn't good enough by itself to warrant spending that much cash on a regular layout, IMO. The way I see it, if you go Topre, go HHKB; the layout makes it worth it.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: didjamatic on Mon, 17 May 2010, 07:41:14: Unless of course you're like me or and your brain is hard-wired for standard layouts. There are a lot of people on this forum that love the layout but to me, the HHKB is excellent for programmers and that's where it's usefulness ends. I'm not a coder I'm a systems admin and part-time ninja. If I used that layout I would be an unhappy hacking keyboard user because I would be dry heaving.

So for me personally when it comes to Topre, the 87u or 103u are the bees knees.

No HHKB users were harmed in the posting of this opinion. Viewer discretion is advised.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 17 May 2010, 08:17:35: Quote from: didjamatic;183093
Unless of course you're like me or and your brain is hard-wired for standard layouts. There are a lot of people on this forum that love the layout but to me, the HHKB is excellent for programmers and that's where it's usefulness ends. I'm not a coder I'm a systems admin and part-time ninja. If I used that layout I would be an unhappy hacking keyboard user because I would be dry heaving.

I couldn't disagree more (no offense). I am the ultimate standard-layout guy. I wouldn't even give up my numpad for a Filco tenkeyless or Topre 87U. That said, there is something ridiculously efficient about the HHKB layout. It took about a day to get used to, but after that, it was second-nature. I'm not a programmer, so I don't reap any benefit there, either. XsPhat, a writer, loved his HHKB, too. I think what makes it different than other alternate-layout 'boards is that it doesn't try to be some type of "hybrid" layout that's only a little different than a regular 'board. Those layouts tend to be annoying. The HHKB is just flat-out different, so there is a complete change from a regular 'board. I can switch back and forth to regular layouts without a problem, because the muscle memory really doesn't conflict. To an extent, I tend to get annoyed with regular layouts now, because everything feels so far away.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 17 May 2010, 09:09:33: Quote from: itlnstln;183088
The Cherrys are quite a bit like a sports car. They're light and springy, and they give the best typing experience, IMO

That's fair enough as long as you mean that as a description of the feel, rather than the performance.

When we discussed gold keycaps in another thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=7668&page=2) the math showed that even hefty 10g keycaps would return up in around 14ms when released. Normal plastic keys take only 2ms. (With 55g springs.)

You have to conclude that normal sprung keyswitches use springs that are far stronger than necessary for their operation. That means there is quite a lot of stored energy that can turn into noise.

Topres use rubber domes rather than springs, so the action will be damped. But they don't move that much slower. The keycaps still keep up with your fingers as you raise them, so there is no difference in performance. Maybe as they wear out they can slow down? But I haven't heard any complaints of that problem.

I like both. Cherry browns are like keys floating on air. Topres are like massaging a tray full of tiny stress relief balls.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 17 May 2010, 09:16:50: I don't disagree that Topres spring back fast enough, but the Cherrys' resistance increases as they are pressed down. Because of this, they "push back" with more force than the Topres, thus returning more energy on the upstroke. In other words, I feel like I have to actively lift my fingers after pressing a Topre switch down whereas with the Cherrys, I just stop pressing down, and the springs pushes my fingers back up. One other way to put it: Topres have just enough upward force to push the cap back up where Cherrys can push the cap and my fingers up.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: kriminal on Mon, 17 May 2010, 09:44:08: Quote from: elbowglue;182994
I vote cherry browns. However PCB mounted cherry browns are superior to filco cherry browns, as the plate gives you a really harsh landing.

QUOTE]

that quote is quite subjective imho, as i have a PCB mounted brown cherry keyboard and the plate mounted filco, i prefer the filco..
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 17 May 2010, 09:49:32: I think pretty much anything expressed here on Geekhack is subjective.

I just upgraded the USB cable on my HHKB with a 1.5', 24 AWG cable with gold-plated connectors and a ferrite. My WPM has increased 25%. Characters are getting to the computer faster than ever before. Well not really, but here are the cables I got (one permanently attached to the PC, and the other to travel with). Together, they cost less than $3 shipped, and I got them in 2 days.

(http://images2.monoprice.com/productlargeimages/54461.jpg)
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 17 May 2010, 09:56:48: Quote from: ripster;183131
Cherry Corp keyboards are ugly.

That's not subjective.

The Cherry fanboy agrees. Filcos and Topres are pretty. I consider Cherrys to be the industrial, no-nonsense 'board meant for work. Sort of like buying an F-150 over whatever-the-Lincoln-version-is. Either way, they both get the job done.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: elbowglue on Mon, 17 May 2010, 10:01:11: Quote
that quote is quite subjective imho, as i have a PCB mounted brown cherry keyboard and the plate mounted filco, i prefer the filco..

Yeah - some people may like plate mounted cherry brown switches more... they are a little more precise, there is zero keyboard flex in the filco cherry browns. Cherry browns have a way of amplifying any minimal keyboard flex, making them really annoying if the PCB that they are mounted on moves away from you when you type.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: kriminal on Mon, 17 May 2010, 11:12:25: Quote from: itlnstln;183132
The Cherry fanboy agrees. Filcos and Topres are pretty. I consider Cherrys to be the industrial, no-nonsense 'board meant for work. Sort of like buying an F-150 over whatever-the-Lincoln-version-is. Either way, they both get the job done.

LOL true, when i got my cherry keyboard from didj i said "eeewww!" and quickly swapped out its double shot keys with my filco.
:)
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 17 May 2010, 11:14:04: Where can one buy a non Filco Cherry?
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: elbowglue on Mon, 17 May 2010, 12:04:48: If you find yourself in the east bay area at some point I have an extra sawed off compaq mx11800 I'm not using, I'm in danville - send me a PM you can try it out or buy it from me or something.

Heres some ideas:
http://www.pcliquidations.com/item.asp?id=6321&referid=160164167166161

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=(11800,%20mx11800,%20186591,%20185152)%20(compaq)&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_okw=(11800,%20mx11800,%20186591,%20185152)%20(compaq)&_oexkw=&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=Zip%20code&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_trksid=m194
http://geekhack.org/classifieds.php?do=showad&adid=409&title=fs-75-nib-ricercar-spos-g86-62410-blessed-by-ricercar

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-retail-pos-keyboard-gently-used-ccard-swipe-/260459168906?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca493848a#ht_528wt_940
(this one probably (does not have cherry browns), looks to have double shots) EDIT: This one is an G81-3000 MY8000 board, not cherry browns I think

http://www.datacal.com/p-1254-cherry-g80-3000-keyboard-with-brown-switches.aspx
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: clickclack on Mon, 17 May 2010, 19:06:33: Quote from: phototristan;182995
Thanks, that's good to know. Is the Cherry Brown as quiet as Topre?

Also, should I consider a Filco Cherry Black board at all?

The topre is a little bit more quiet.
bottoming out- topre is a little bit more quiet
rebound- they are both a little bit louder
I personally can type without bottoming out much easier on the cherry brown board, making that one more quiet when I use it.

As far as the cherry blacks go, I absolutely love them too! I find that it's very easy to NOT bottom out on them and I also type a bit faster with them as well.
Cherry blacks are more quiet than browns, I would say about the same as a topre in MY typing style. When I don't bottom out the cherry blacks they are indeed quieter than the topre for me.

I love em all though for different reasons (such a keyboard ****!)
Well I hope some of that helped...=)
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 17 May 2010, 19:16:56: Thanks for the feedback so far. Well folks, if you could only buy one, which one would you buy?
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 17 May 2010, 19:19:09: Definitely. The best Alps keyswitch is mediocre. And that's before we get into the whole arcane mastery of what those switches are...
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 17 May 2010, 19:28:45: Im thinking of hacking one of my Dolch keyboards to have Brown switches...
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 17 May 2010, 19:31:03: Quote from: ripster;183322
If I could only buy one I'd still buy both.

I'm buying a condo. Can't spend like I used to...
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 17 May 2010, 19:36:44: I'd go for the Topre. If you already have a Cherry keyboard, you might as well try something quite different to what you already have.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Tue, 18 May 2010, 17:06:52: Quote from: ch_123;183332
I'd go for the Topre. If you already have a Cherry keyboard, you might as well try something quite different to what you already have.

I had a Cherry Blue Filco but sold it since I like the Model M Space Saver much more.

I'm leaning towards the Topre, but what has a better feel for all day typing? Filco Cherry Brown or Topre 55g or Topre variable weighted?

I think I'm getting close, just need a bit more persuading...
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 18 May 2010, 17:21:01: Quote from: ripster;183330
This is known as the "Nordstrom's decision making method".

In Silicon Valley we have the "Fryes Loan." Fryses electronics offer a 30-day money back on all purchases, so we buy things to check them out, and return them within 30 days.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Tue, 18 May 2010, 17:24:08: Does Fry's sell these keyboards though? Elitekeyboards accepts returns for defect exchanges only...
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 18 May 2010, 17:50:56: Quote from: webwit;183769
That's the law in the Netherlands. Except it's 14 days.

Same in Germany. It's based on an EU guideline, so all EU states should have similar laws.

I remember how all internet merchants whined this would kill them when it became law in 2002. Actually the opposite happened: The unprecedented level of consumer safety gave internet sales a giant boost.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 18 May 2010, 18:01:11: Yes, some do exploit that and order tons of stuff they have no intention to keep. But apparently the majority of honest customers make more than up for that.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 18 May 2010, 18:50:36: Quote from: Mental Hobbit;183803
Yes, some do exploit that and order tons of stuff they have no intention to keep. But apparently the majority of honest customers make more than up for that.

there are also those who try it and like it and keep it and would never have tried it if they didnt have the option of returning it if they didnt like it.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Tue, 18 May 2010, 22:22:33: So should I get Topre 55g or variable? I'm leaning towards 55g since I generally don't like keys that are easily depressed. Even the Filco Blue Cherry I had was too easy to press for me actually.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 18 May 2010, 22:29:13: Quote from: phototristan;183927
So should I get Topre 55g or variable? I'm leaning towards 55g since I generally don't like keys that are easily depressed. Even the Filco Blue Cherry I had was too easy to press for me actually.

hard to say. ideally you should try one out before you buy. anyone in your area have one?

I havent tried 55g, tho at least one person on the site tried it and regretted it. On the other hand, variable may be too light (i myself found the keys too easy to depress even with fingers in the home position, with accidental keystrokes just from resting my fingers). But then i'm a key masher so take it with a grain of salt. Others mentioned that too though.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Tue, 18 May 2010, 22:33:55: Quote from: ripster;183930
The Blue Cherry is 50g. Sounds like you'd like the 55g better.

Before you buy it though, if all you need is a quieter keyboard for rare late night computing I'd just get a cheap rubber dome.

Condos in SF are expensive.

I might actually use it more often though , such as when I want to play music without headphones and still hear the music.

Sounds like I should bit the bullet and get the Topre 55G. Wow, I have to pay CA sales tax too and it will be close to $300.!
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 18 May 2010, 22:44:48: Quote from: phototristan;183933
Topre 55G. Wow, I have to pay CA sales tax too and it will be close to $300.!

will be interested in what you think of it. sounds like it fits what you're looking for though.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Tue, 18 May 2010, 22:53:57: Yeah, while I love the Model M feel and sound, I'm wondering if it will be more enjoyable to still be able to type just as much and as hard, but hear my podcasts and music through my speakers well while I work (without headphones).

I'll give the Topre a try and see.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 18 May 2010, 22:59:17: Quote from: phototristan;183949
Yeah, while I love the Model M feel and sound, I'm wondering if it will be more enjoyable to still be able to type just as much and as hard, but hear my podcasts and music through my speakers well while I work (without headphones).

I'll give the Topre a try and see.

well it might fit the bill, but its very diff from M experience.
You could of course get a relatively silent M by slathering silicon grease on the springs (or using the floss/foam method) as talked about in the mods section. Wont be silent as a topre but would be fairly silent.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Fri, 21 May 2010, 23:43:28: I received the Realforce 87U 55G today and so far, I really like it! It doesn't feel as mushy as most rubber dome boards (which is what I was afraid of) and actually has a tactile feel yet sounds quiet. I think the 55G all the way around is going to work nice for me.

Coming from a Model M (Space Saver), I'm actually finding the quietness a welcomed change. I can hear my audio better now while typing. This just may turn into my new favorite board! Except for the fact that the keys will likely get shiny over time and I hate that. I should have maybe gotten a white/beige one but couldn't find one.

Nitpicks:

-It's true you can't really read the lettering on the keys very well unless you have a bright light on in the room or good natural light.

-On OSX, the stock keyboard preference pane does not work on this keyboard to assign the different keys (ALT, Windows key, etc) appropriately. You need to download third party software. I'm using DoubleCommand and it's working well so far. But it's perplexing that the built in driver can indeed modify those keys on other boards such as Filco and Model Ms, but not on the Realforce...

EDIT -I found out that you don't need a third party driver under OSX if you assign the caps lock key to 'option'. For some odd reason, the Realforce cannot have the ALT key and the Windows key both assigned using the OSX keyboard preference pane (on all other keyboards I've tried this works fine), it's one or the other. So, I have ALT assigned to Command and CAPS Lock assigned to Option. The Control key remains Control.

-I have not been successful getting the QWERTY numpad to work at all.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Fri, 21 May 2010, 23:57:08: I thought so at first, but the DIP switches only turn on/off the Context menu key and swap the caps lock with the control and enable the numeric keypad.

Quote from: ripster;185617
Glad you're liking it. Don't have OSX but it may be as simple as a DIP switch setting (refer to the box - don't lose that box because there's no handy dandy DIP switch sticker on the back).
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 22 May 2010, 00:17:56: The PC's NumLock status tells the Realforce when to act as numeric keys.
Macs don't use NumLock. Is that right? So no way to activate the embedded numeric pad.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Sat, 22 May 2010, 00:20:52: Quote from: Rajagra;185630
The PC's NumLock status tells the Realforce when to act as numeric keys.
Macs don't use NumLock. Is that right? So no way to activate the embedded numeric pad.

I think that's correct. Oh well. The QWERTY numpad works on the Model M Space Saver on Mac a-okay. That's probably because that board does it all internally within the board itself.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Sat, 22 May 2010, 10:32:37: Well, going back to the Model M, I can say I generally enjoy typing on the Model M more although the Realforce is quite usable and also fun to type on. It does feel like a Mercedes or something and it's really quite relaxing to use. Great board!

My default will remain the Model M though! I can easily hot swap between the two on a whim.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: kishy on Sat, 22 May 2010, 10:52:40: Quote from: phototristan;185707
My default will remain the Model M though!

For great justice!
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Sun, 23 May 2010, 20:57:52: I'm really liking the sturdy feel of the Realforce and I feel like I can type for longer on it without fatigue (then the Model M). It's also nice and low profile as it doesn't sit up too high off the desk.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: clickclack on Sun, 23 May 2010, 21:39:33: Congrats on the 87u all 55g board! =)
It feels great, and I have noticed that I make fewer mistakes on it than most other boards. It's a darn classy looking board too!

I hope you find a nice and suitable work around for the apple compatible hiccups.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: LordGurciullo on Tue, 25 May 2010, 13:51:54: As you continue to type and type on it you will fall even further in love. It screams elegance. it is the absolute dream for someone who types a lot and has even the slightest finger pain.. I love my topre and am angry I got mine last :)... would have made some of the other boards I bought a non issue - but I love all my boards.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Tue, 25 May 2010, 13:56:00: Quote from: LordGurciullo;186785
As you continue to type and type on it you will fall even further in love. It screams elegance. it is the absolute dream for someone who types a lot and has even the slightest finger pain.. I love my topre and am angry I got mine last :)... would have made some of the other boards I bought a non issue - but I love all my boards.

Yes, I'm liking it quite a lot. I also feel that 55g version is perfect for me. The Model M is about 70g which can at times feel a bit too hard to press, while the Blue Cherry I had before and thought was a bit too light was 45g.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Wed, 30 June 2010, 23:19:57: So I've had the Realforce for a few weeks now and still really like it. I'm actually liking it more than my Model M now believe it or not. I can type faster on it than I can on the Model M.

My only complaint is that I cannot see the number keys well at all. Are there keycaps that I could buy with brighter numbers? The letters are fine dim because I can touch type those. I'm just not good touch typing the number row at all for some reason.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: washuai on Thu, 01 July 2010, 10:00:55: It is the number row, you can count, until you learn it. You'll learn the number row eventually without a guide. Having it visible, will just continue to atrophy your skills. The numbers I can count, though I admit, the symbols are coming along even slower. I'm sure if I spent a little time with some typing exercises directed to those areas, I'd stop making mistakes, but I don't mind learning the hard way.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 01 July 2010, 14:51:34: If you really want to learn without eyes, put wrong key caps on the keys. Inaccurate random key caps teaches one to stop viewing keys fast.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: typo on Sun, 04 July 2010, 04:08:49: i actually prefer the mx blue. the topre is more comparable to the mx brown? if that is so, the topre may not be for me.

i think what sets the topre apart is the overall quality of the entire board. it is a shame that mx switches are rated 50 million and there are no ultra high quality boards using them. that i know of. that includes the filco imo. the filco has better qc than the others but it is still a cheaply made board imo. cherrys own boards have become very cheaply made from what i see.

edit: i just read this whole post. i am guessing the keytronics thread may be correct. the keytronics is the cream of the crop of rubber domes. i wonder how close it feels to a topre. the topre is actually a rubber dome from what i understand. the keytronics is $10. i see that posters point. nonetheless that is not what i like. if a topre is like a good rubber dome i would not like it most likely. i like everything about cherry blues.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: washuai on Sun, 04 July 2010, 06:53:41: Typo - yea, if cherry browns aren't for you, then the quieter, smoother Topre doesn't sound like your thing.

First of all, the KeyTronic, particularly the Designer P2 model - new at least - is not $10 - even excluding tax and shipping. The forces and quality of the KeyTronic are not in the ball park of the Topre. Ripster said maybe 66% similar feel. Which if you're doing the math, means that maybe by that scale, you believe a Topre should cost $168. To account for imports, quality, no peers - oh yea, wait there are $300 cherry browns - Kinesis. Yes, a Topre is a rubber dome, but the sliders, materials, etc. don't make them feel that much the same.
Unless you're one of the folks who feels the only difference between cherry browns and a rubber dome is that cherry browns are clicky and don't land into sponge.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 09 July 2010, 12:29:18: Quote from: ripster;183131

The real question is whether the OP will be happy 10 years from now saying.... "I wonder what the good feeling of cup rubber is?" and not knowing the answer.

Curiosity is what made me buy so many keyboards last year. I just wanted to find out for myself what this or that keyboard feel like and sound like. I still have to try a plate-mounted blue Cherry keyboard. After that, I'll be done. But this is not a priority for now.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: lmnop on Fri, 09 July 2010, 19:06:16: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;201017
Curiosity is what made me buy so many keyboards last year. I just wanted to find out for myself what this or that keyboard feel like and sound like. I still have to try a plate-mounted blue Cherry keyboard. After that, I'll be done. But this is not a priority for now.

Das are available locally and cheaper.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 09 July 2010, 19:14:32: Quote from: lmnop;201110
Das are available locally and cheaper.

It's not that much cheaper in Canada. I also like the Filco look better.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: lmnop on Fri, 09 July 2010, 19:15:48: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;201112
It's not that much cheaper in Canada. I also like the Filco look better.

have you ordered from elitekeyboards before?
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 09 July 2010, 19:17:20: Quote from: lmnop;201113
have you ordered from elitekeyboards before?

Yes, I have. I bought a Filco with brown Cherry and a Topre 103UB. I have only good things to say about elitekeyboards.com. The service was very good.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: lmnop on Fri, 09 July 2010, 19:20:01: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;201115
Yes, I have. I bought a Filco with brown Cherry and a Topre 103UB. I have only good things to say about elitekeyboards.com. The service was very good.

how much did you pay? because a canadian member at OCN paid $170 CAD + $40 CAD for customs. I think that is too much.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 09 July 2010, 19:30:59: Quote from: lmnop;201116
how much did you pay? because a canadian member at OCN paid $170 CAD + $40 CAD for customs. I think that is too much.

I think the whole thing cost me about CDN$ 170-180 for a Filco. That said, I did not get the one with N-Key rollover.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: lmnop on Fri, 09 July 2010, 19:32:53: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;201119
I think the whole thing cost me about CDN$ 170-180 for a Filco. That said, I did not get the one with N-Key rollover.

you can buy a Das Model S Professional or Ultimate for $120.26 CAD ($116 USD) shipped. if you are willing to pay $210 CAD for a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click you need to take me out on a date :)
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 09 July 2010, 19:48:01: Quote from: lmnop;201120
you can buy a Das Model S Professional or Ultimate for $120.26 CAD ($116 USD) shipped. if you are willing to pay $210 CAD for a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click you need to take me out on a date :)

No, I'm not taking you on a date. I'm already married to a beautiful wife who gave me a beautiful daughter:-) I think you misunderstood me. My Filco cost me $170 incuding shipping and custom fees. I was not willing to take any risk with a Das (many have complained about it) and I really wanted a Filco. I already knew what a Filco would be in terms of footprint before buying it since I also have an ABS M1.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: lmnop on Fri, 09 July 2010, 19:57:15: see it works out I am italian you can have a mistress :)

there is nothing wrong with the Das Model S so don't try and sell that to me. it's widely available, cheaper, 30 day return policy and promotional discounts Metadot even gives out review samples. I think it's a better choice because it has laser etched printing, optional USB 2.0 hub and a longer USB cable.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 09 July 2010, 23:57:02: Quote from: ripster;201171
I'm still amazed Welly hasn't returned his Das Model S yet.

It hasn't been 30 days yet though.

AND it's SHINEY!!!!
Show Image
(http://l.yimg.com/eb/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/dreamworks_skg/over_the_hedge/steve_carell/overthehedge_poster.jpg)

(http://blevkog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/political-pictures-sarah-palin-john-mccain-look-shiny-object.jpg)
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: lmnop on Fri, 09 July 2010, 23:58:54: Quote from: ripster;201171
I'm still amazed Welly hasn't returned his Das Model S yet.

It hasn't been 30 days yet though.

AND it's SHINEY!!!!
Show Image
(http://l.yimg.com/eb/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/dreamworks_skg/over_the_hedge/steve_carell/overthehedge_poster.jpg)

if I make you a sandwich will you watch Stargate? turkey sandwhich made of wheat sourdough, smoked gouda, tomato, pesto and roasted red peppers.

if that doesn't work I have plan b. i'll lay down some Canadian Bacon next to my 52" Panasonic Plasma lol

(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/its-a-trap.jpg)
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Mon, 12 July 2010, 19:23:15: Quote from: phototristan;185615

EDIT -I found out that you don't need a third party driver under OSX if you assign the caps lock key to 'option'. For some odd reason, the Realforce cannot have the ALT key and the Windows key both assigned using the OSX keyboard preference pane (on all other keyboards I've tried this works fine), it's one or the other. So, I have ALT assigned to Command and CAPS Lock assigned to Option. The Control key remains Control.

-I have not been successful getting the QWERTY numpad to work at all.

That's weird. I have the Realforce 103 UB and I have the Alt key assigned to Command and I have the Windows key assigned to Option.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 12 July 2010, 19:46:10: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;202096
T Alt key assigned to Command and I have the Windows key assigned to Option.

By default, is
-- ALT = Option
-- control = control
?
That's how most mac-labeled keyboards work on my Windows hardware.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Mon, 12 July 2010, 19:49:04: Quote from: ricercar;202110
By default, is
-- ALT = Option
-- control = control
?
That's how most mac-labeled keyboards work on my Windows hardware.

By default, the Alt key = Option and the Windows key = Command. Control stays the same.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Tue, 03 August 2010, 16:53:03: So I ended up selling the RealForce Topre. I liked it a lot but just couldn't get used to not being able to see the lettering on the number keys. I found I kept making numerical errors and had one too many of those. I'm sure I could have gotten better and better with that over time, but don't have the patience.

Also, I feel it's way expensive for a keyboard but I was able to sell it for what I bought it for!

I'll probably look to getting a Majestouch Cherry Brown tenkeyless to replace it soon (for like half the price of the Reaforce). But for now, it's back to the good ol Model M Space Saving for my daily driver.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Wed, 04 August 2010, 23:10:29: Or maybe I'll buy a White Realforce Topre. I can't decided. That would solve the issue of not being able to see the lettering well though...
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: phototristan on Mon, 25 October 2010, 19:16:38: I missed the RealForce too much so just ordered the 86U in White!
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ynih on Thu, 23 December 2010, 03:59:18: Wow, reading this is like reading a bad-relationship, in and out, in and out. haha. but I'm glad you picked up another Topre in the end. I think it's definitely an acquired taste.

When I first got mine, I tried to find, real/practical reasons to justify spending that much on a rubber dome. When I finally decided to sell it, I shelf'd it for a week and at the end of the week, I came back to my Topre wanting more. I've decided to give it some more time before making more rash decisions.

By the way, my daily driver used to be Model M 1390131, so I know how that feeling is. But after forcing myself to use my Topre day and night for a week straight, when I touch my Model M, I can feel my fingers getting tired. This made me realize how how beautiful my Topre is and how unique the feeling is. Truly, like no other.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: panda-R on Thu, 23 December 2010, 08:52:06: Quote from: ynih;267679

When I first got mine, I tried to find, real/practical reasons to justify spending that much on a rubber dome.

OH NO You DIDN'T JUST CALL IT A RUBBER DOME!
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: db_Iodine on Thu, 23 December 2010, 09:26:50: Quote from: ripster;267744
Sure FEELS like a rubber dome. Almost clunky compared to the lively snap of a Brown Cherry.

I was visiting Verkkokauppa.com (Finnish Topre dealer) again for some last minute Christmas shopping, and tried the variable weight Topres there. It came to my mind why I haven't bought a Topre so far. Sure it feels relaxing to type on one, but at the same time it's somehow boring. I'm sorry if I hurt any Topre fans here. I guess I'm not gonna buy any Realforces any time soon, even tho I was planning on buying one. I'll just order an Unicomp Spacesaver instead.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Thu, 23 December 2010, 09:27:34: Quote from: ripster;267744
takes a while to get them warmed up.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: woody on Thu, 23 December 2010, 09:32:32: Quote from: db_Iodine;267753
I guess I'm not gonna buy any Realforces any time soon, even tho I was planning on buying one. I'll just order an Unicomp Spacesaver instead.

That's what club 30+ do.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: panda-R on Thu, 23 December 2010, 09:53:12: wow I can't believe my super expensive Topre feels just like a glorified rubber dome. For the price I paid i was expecting atmospheric reentry without any addition accessories.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: msiegel on Thu, 23 December 2010, 10:42:00: tsk, you think they can just give away heat shields for free?
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: panda-R on Thu, 23 December 2010, 12:59:19: I need to work on my interpersonal human communication skills. Also on topic, my rubber dome is awesome!
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: BlueRain on Thu, 23 December 2010, 13:35:28: Quote from: panda-R;267880
I need to work on my interpersonal human communication skills. Also on topic, my rubber dome is awesome!

I don't think Panda-to-Person counts as interpersonal, it's more... beastial.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: woody on Thu, 23 December 2010, 13:36:38: Hmm .... intrapersonal?
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: panda-R on Thu, 23 December 2010, 17:39:02: i'm dehyping the topre so noone will buy them and such topre will be forced to liquidate their stock to me for freeeeeee.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: panda-R on Thu, 23 December 2010, 19:34:43: down with the canadians!
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Thu, 23 December 2010, 19:49:52: Quote from: ripster;267757
HaHa. After an hour I'm warming up to my Topre. No bull.

Sometimes, after having used my Topre for quite some time, I start to take it for granted. Then, I'll move to a different keyboard. When I use my Topre again, it becomes apparent why it's different from other rubber dome keyboards. Is it worth the price I paid? No, I don't think so. Is it a good keyboard though? It's a very good keyboard.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 23 December 2010, 20:09:39: I've found that I personally prefer Topre to buckling spring, cherry brown and black & white alps. Still curious about cherry blues though. I just have a feeling I won't like the loudness. Part of what I love about Topres is their sound.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ktkr on Fri, 24 December 2010, 03:05:08: Not only Topre beat Filco in the quality department hands down, the Topre switches absolutely destroy browns. I just don't get their popularity, I guess I'm in the minority.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: stuiees on Fri, 24 December 2010, 03:47:17: Quote from: ktkr;268199
Not only Topre beat Filco in the quality department hands down, the Topre switches absolutely destroy browns. I just don't get their popularity, I guess I'm in the minority.

I also love the Topre switch after trying it along side with the Filco cherry brown. It feels so much more refined. As always noted it comes down to personal preference; but if you can afford it, I would say give Topre a chance. I did and I love them.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: woody on Fri, 24 December 2010, 03:54:42: I wonder what the Filco's price would've been if it was manufactured in Japan. I bet more than Realforce's.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: stuiees on Fri, 24 December 2010, 04:57:54: Quote from: woody;268213
I wonder what the Filco's price would've been if it was manufactured in Japan. I bet more than Realforce's.

I bet it would be a much nicer version of the Filco we all know and love today. Imagine if Sony cared as much about their keyboard as they do their T.V.'s. We would have some new cool technology upgrade every year. Too bad that is not the case.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 24 December 2010, 08:10:25: I think we're going to need another favorite switch poll soon! Sounds like we have some new Topre lovers here! Eat your heart out, Cherry! :D
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: db_Iodine on Fri, 24 December 2010, 08:13:00: A few new voters won't get Topre higher than the 4th place it had on the last poll.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 24 December 2010, 08:16:36: I don't trust GeekHackers with dead baby fetishes.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: Minskleip on Fri, 24 December 2010, 08:27:06: Quote from: panda-R;267769
wow I can't believe my super expensive Topre feels just like a glorified rubber dome. For the price I paid i was expecting atmospheric reentry without any addition accessories.

You know why the price is high if reentry is atmospheric.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: jaynoon on Fri, 24 December 2010, 14:21:48: My first impression of my HHKB was not good after I'd been on my Filco Brown board for a month or so. It felt sort of fatiguing, I wasn't "riding the bump" very well, etc... But given that I'd just spent a large sum of money on a keyboard, I decided to hang in there and give it a fair chance.

Now I'm getting ready to put my Filco Brown up on the classifieds to help subsidize the Realforce 86UB that I bought. So I guess put me down for Topre.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: SpatiallyAware on Fri, 24 December 2010, 16:54:56: The only thing that bothers me is not being able to get an all 45g board... Cherry blacks are too stiff, so the all 55g worries me, but then the 30g pinky.. bleh.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 24 December 2010, 16:58:16: Quote from: jaynoon;268356
I wasn't "riding the bump" very well, etc...

Whenever you're riding the bump, you gotta do it well. At least that's what I tell the ladies.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: jaynoon on Fri, 24 December 2010, 17:25:58: When riding the bump, you must take caution to ride it right.

(http://www.mysafetysign.com/img/lg/K/Caution-Bump-Ahead-Sign-K-5992.gif)
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: isp on Fri, 24 December 2010, 17:28:45: What "riding the bump" may look like:

(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8585/janmd.gif)

YMMV.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: db_Iodine on Sat, 25 December 2010, 03:24:19: Quote from: isp;268438
What "riding the bump" may look like:

YMMV.

That's how you would like it to look.

This is how it's more likely going to look:

(http://www.failfunnies.com/images/gif/fat-lady-bike.gif)
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ironman31 on Sat, 25 December 2010, 10:16:46: Quote from: SpatiallyAware;268429
The only thing that bothers me is not being able to get an all 45g board... Cherry blacks are too stiff, so the all 55g worries me, but then the 30g pinky.. bleh.

You can get one. Just might be a bit more expensive than you are wanting to spend

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=795
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: SpatiallyAware on Sat, 25 December 2010, 13:07:46: Quote from: ironman31;268677
You can get one. Just might be a bit more expensive than you are wanting to spend

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=795

I'd have to pass based on the crazy spacebar.

I'm not going to even talk about the color lol

The most likely scenario for me to get a topre is 'gamble' on the 55g (possibly being too heavy) in which case I'd have to sell, purchase a variable weight and then ripster mod the pinkys. IE A lot of work.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ktkr on Sat, 25 December 2010, 13:39:01: Quote from: SpatiallyAware;268740
I'd have to pass based on the crazy spacebar.

I'm not going to even talk about the color lol

The most likely scenario for me to get a topre is 'gamble' on the 55g (possibly being too heavy) in which case I'd have to sell, purchase a variable weight and then ripster mod the pinkys. IE A lot of work.

Have your ever tried a variable weight board? It is not that big a deal. It's hardly noticeable on 86U as it's a very light board to begin with.
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: ricercar on Sat, 25 December 2010, 14:03:44: (http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8585/janmd.gif)

Quote from: kalrykh;268439
is that katy perry?

Can't be Katy Perry. This gal's attractive.

Quote
I'm not going to even talk about the color lol

What's wrong with the color? If it's not yellow, It' not awesome!.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13530&stc=1&d=1289956508)
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: nocturn4l3030 on Sat, 25 December 2010, 14:09:49: Quote from: SpatiallyAware;268740
I'd have to pass based on the crazy spacebar.

I'm not going to even talk about the color lol

The most likely scenario for me to get a topre is 'gamble' on the 55g (possibly being too heavy) in which case I'd have to sell, purchase a variable weight and then ripster mod the pinkys. IE A lot of work.

selling my 55g (one day left) if u interested, ebay link in my sig
Title: Topre 87u vs. Filco Brown?
Post by: didjamatic on Sun, 26 December 2010, 11:03:55: Tickle Me Elmo.