geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:24:52

Title: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:24:52
For the love of God, why is there so many GMK ICs and GBs going on this year? Are you people even remotely aware that other profiles DO, in fact, exist? It's okay to have some variety.  >:(
Perhaps I'm overstating it, but it feels like there's another 6 ICs every week.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: lolafineday on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:28:22
Gmk really does satisfy everyoneís needs for quality and reliability... other competitors such like SP take too long because they donít have the establishments for it. There is only one way for gmk sets to diminish, if pbt set makers like enjoypbt find a way to incorporate more colors into the sets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Zambumon on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:32:53
nice
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:33:12
who cares

just don't buy what you don't want
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: hineybush on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:33:18
tools exist to make it very easy for anyone to toss a few colors/hex codes into a site and have a render 10 minutes later. i consider most of these "ideas" instead of "interest checks"
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Kokaloo on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:34:02
There's been on average one GMK set posted at least every day for the past few weeks lol
Some that were posted not even a week ago are already on page 2 or 3 of the IC forum
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:34:28
Gmk really does satisfy everyoneís needs for quality and reliability... other competitors such like SP take too long because they donít have the establishments for it. There is only one way for gmk sets to diminish, if pbt set makers like enjoypbt find a way to incorporate more colors into the sets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is not a matter of manufacturer, but keycap profiles. Everyone wants to run their sets in Cherry ABS for some reason, and there are plenty of great profiles out there not being utilized. Everything does NOT need to be cherry profile, or even doubleshot ABS. Variety is good.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Remsky on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:34:31
People wanna show off their colors and usually dont have what it takes to run GBs. Its in GMK because they have the best prod line out of cap manus currently.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:37:05
who cares

just don't buy what you don't want
Good to know I can always count on you to add nothing to the conversation.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Remsky on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:39:15
who cares

just don't buy what you don't want
Good to know I can always count on you to add nothing to the conversation.
Ne nice avail?
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Starston3 on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:39:43
Bruh... SA Leviathan, SA Bliss, Ghost might be DCS, DSA Scientific.

Calm down. If it ain't for you don't buy.


If you want to see something a different profile y'all can design it.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:40:11
who cares

just don't buy what you don't want
Good to know I can always count on you to add nothing to the conversation.

(https://images.wagwalkingweb.com/media/articles/dog/salt-poisoning/salt-poisoning.jpg)
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:42:29
Show Image
(https://images.wagwalkingweb.com/media/articles/dog/salt-poisoning/salt-poisoning.jpg)

'Tis but a mere observation, dear sir.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: LightningXI on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:42:57
1) Post GMK IC with some free renders
2) Change your Geekhack avatar to promote said GMK IC
3) ? ? ?
4) You are now a "Product Designer"
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Zambumon on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:43:01
Bruh... SA Leviathan, SA Bliss, Ghost might be DCS, DSA Scientific.

Calm down. If it ain't for you don't buy.


If you want to see something a different profile y'all can design it.

Ne MT3 Serika?
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: godinjointform on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:46:18
That's weird, I don't see any ICs from you in any of these other profiles.
I don't think it's that people are unaware, it's that gmk is what's most popular right now. People need to get enough support to run the set they design, and cherry generates the numbers.
Title: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Starston3 on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:48:52
Bruh... SA Leviathan, SA Bliss, Ghost might be DCS, DSA Scientific.

Calm down. If it ain't for you don't buy.


If you want to see something a different profile y'all can design it.

Ne MT3 Serika?
That goes without saying.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:56:32
That's weird, I don't see any ICs from you in any of these other profiles.
I don't think it's that people are unaware, it's that gmk is what's most popular right now. People need to get enough support to run the set they design, and cherry generates the numbers.
Clearly you see no ICs from me because it should come as no great surprise that not everyone should create an IC. Many of these are pretty half baked, or barely there at all.
In addition, many non cherry sets have done extremely well too. I'd say most of the success really just comes down to the colorway, rather than profile.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: romevi on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:58:35
I did think it funny that there are so many.
I thought there were too many two years, which is why I created this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90505.msg2455952#msg2455952
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: hineybush on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:59:34
GMK is hot rn. people see resale prices for kits going for $200+ and want in on the money. sadly it's not quick cash like a lot of people think, and most running the low-effort ICs don't necessarily have the backend to actually run the sets
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: romevi on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:59:56
For the love of God, why is there so many GMK ICs and GBs going on this year? Are you people even remotely aware that other profiles DO, in fact, exist? It's okay to have some variety.  >:(
Perhaps I'm overstating it, but it feels like there's another 6 ICs every week.


(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=213544;type=avatar)
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 08 May 2019, 14:01:32
I did think it funny that there are so many.
I thought there were too many two years, which is why I created this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90505.msg2455952#msg2455952
Ha, I remember that. That was pretty good.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: cekagekh on Wed, 08 May 2019, 14:05:49
You are overstating it. I can never have too many GMK sets.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 08 May 2019, 14:10:53
You are overstating it. I can never have too many GMK sets.
Sure you can. Have you at least given thought to trying other profiles?
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: tex_live_utility on Wed, 08 May 2019, 14:14:52
Gmk really does satisfy everyoneís needs for quality and reliability... other competitors such like SP take too long because they donít have the establishments for it. There is only one way for gmk sets to diminish, if pbt set makers like enjoypbt find a way to incorporate more colors into the sets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is not a matter of manufacturer, but keycap profiles. Everyone wants to run their sets in Cherry ABS for some reason, and there are plenty of great profiles out there not being utilized. Everything does NOT need to be cherry profile, or even doubleshot ABS. Variety is good.

People generally seem to want some combination of the following, in no particular order:


GMK ticks all of those boxes. All other keycaps fail in at least one or two categories.

NPKC and WinMix/KPRepublic Cherry profile is less "premium", has ugly modifier legends, and the latter has serious QC problems. Also it's PBT.

Tai-Hao OEM is fine quality but people just don't like typing on OEM, and has poor compatibility. They also don't run custom color GBs to my knowledge.

NPKC PBT OEM has great compatibility but it's still OEM. Additionally has a "rough" texture that lots of people don't like, and doesn't feel premium. Personally I think OEM is underrated for its typing experience but it also has a stigma that will be hard to get over.

Tai-Hao Cubic is like SA in that it's tall and chunky and not super comfortable to type on, also it's unbelievably loud and clacky due to the shape of the keycaps, and has not-great compatibiilty. And like their OEM, they don't do custom GBs, and the existing colorway (apart from Concrete) are frankly wack. Unlike SA it's not really beautiful either. Cubic is nobody's favorite.

DSA is making somewhat of a comeback, with Milkshake and now Scientific. This is deserved. DSA is a good profile, especially as mid-angle boards (4-7 degrees) are starting to gain popularity.

SA, whether SP or Maxkey, doesn't have the elite status it once had, but it still has its diehard fans. The common sentiment is "nice to look at and listen to (except the spacebar), not comfortable to type on".

People like KAT, MT3, EPBT Cherry profile, and MDA, but there's only so much you can do aesthetically with PBT. Novelpro is going to be another PBT player, more of an MT3 competitor than anything, and it's still a long way off at any rate. Also new KAT sets are basically unavailable due to issues at Keyreative and ZFrontier. EPBT is getting more popularity as the quality continues to rise (thanks for your hard work Gok!). MDA feels nice but I think it looks kinda weird and that turns people off. XDA is polarizing, either you love it or you hate it; it lacks mass appeal. MT3 is the same way, albeit with a bit of additional respect for its vintage aesthetic.

JTK keycaps don't feel or sound as nice as GMK for some reason, and the wonky legend issues still aren't fixed.

MT3 ABS has weird/bad font and the first set still hasn't shipped.

So what's left? Nothing.

Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 08 May 2019, 15:22:25
I went with GMK for FEELING CUTE because nothing else could even compare.

I mean do you want IC's to turn into memes? ???

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 08 May 2019, 15:33:48
People generally seem to want some combination of the following, in no particular order:

  • Bright color options, including the ability to do light-on-dark
  • Crisp clean legends
  • Durability to scuffs
  • Not too tall, both for aesthetic reasons and for typing comfort (low wobble, don't need to hold hand way up high over the board or use a tall wrist rest)
  • Nice wide typing surface with relatively small gaps
  • Some curvature in the tops (i.e. not flat tops)
  • Sculpted profile
  • That classic Cherry look
  • Thick plastic for deeper sound and smoother/softer feel
  • Reliable manufacturing with good QC
  • Easy to get in touch with and work with (as a Westerner)

GMK ticks all of those boxes. All other keycaps fail in at least one or two categories.

NPKC and WinMix/KPRepublic Cherry profile is less "premium", has ugly modifier legends, and the latter has serious QC problems. Also it's PBT.

Tai-Hao OEM is fine quality but people just don't like typing on OEM, and has poor compatibility. They also don't run custom color GBs to my knowledge.

NPKC PBT OEM has great compatibility but it's still OEM. Additionally has a "rough" texture that lots of people don't like, and doesn't feel premium. Personally I think OEM is underrated for its typing experience but it also has a stigma that will be hard to get over.

Tai-Hao Cubic is like SA in that it's tall and chunky and not super comfortable to type on, also it's unbelievably loud and clacky due to the shape of the keycaps, and has not-great compatibiilty. And like their OEM, they don't do custom GBs, and the existing colorway (apart from Concrete) are frankly wack. Unlike SA it's not really beautiful either. Cubic is nobody's favorite.

DSA is making somewhat of a comeback, with Milkshake and now Scientific. This is deserved. DSA is a good profile, especially as mid-angle boards (4-7 degrees) are starting to gain popularity.

SA, whether SP or Maxkey, doesn't have the elite status it once had, but it still has its diehard fans. The common sentiment is "nice to look at and listen to (except the spacebar), not comfortable to type on".

People like KAT, MT3, EPBT Cherry profile, and MDA, but there's only so much you can do aesthetically with PBT. Novelpro is going to be another PBT player, more of an MT3 competitor than anything, and it's still a long way off at any rate. Also new KAT sets are basically unavailable due to issues at Keyreative and ZFrontier. EPBT is getting more popularity as the quality continues to rise (thanks for your hard work Gok!). MDA feels nice but I think it looks kinda weird and that turns people off. XDA is polarizing, either you love it or you hate it; it lacks mass appeal. MT3 is the same way, albeit with a bit of additional respect for its vintage aesthetic.

JTK keycaps don't feel or sound as nice as GMK for some reason, and the wonky legend issues still aren't fixed.

MT3 ABS has weird/bad font and the first set still hasn't shipped.

So what's left? Nothing.

Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.

As far as I know, SP has stated they have no intentions on bringing back thick DCS, as our relatively small demand (compared to most of their partners) is very low, and it doesn't really provide any benefit for them. I'd be surprised if DSS came out thin, considering it's relation to the SA profile. I believe some people have found test caps in grab bags from them too, and they look similar to SA in thickness, which IIRC is about 1.6mm
SA Probably won't get a whole lot of attention due to SP still having a fairly lengthy backlog, and Maxkey quality still being pretty subpar. To my knowledge, SP has not been running very many ABS or PBT DSA sets as of late, so I can see that being a potentially good option. Keyreative has effectively ceased making DSA sets due to QC issues with the cap provider, and their KAT/KAM profiles future seems uncertain, as they still haven't delivered on KAT Starry Night, thought it was supposed to ship a month or two ago.

Certainly, MT3 has it's issues in ABS with MD insisting on going with a SA like font, which is honestly too large. The PBT sets have had their legending issues sorted out from what I can see with my Dev/TTY R2 caps, so that's a possibility, although limited by having to be run through MD, on their time schedule, if at all.

I've always been a little surprised at how Polarizing XDA is, since it's very similar to DSA, just with a wider top. Most every set I've seen done in the profile has turned out excellently, although it is limited to just PBT, and I don't know of any reverse dyesub sets existing.

MDA does look weird, although nice to type on, I agree. Pretty understandable why it's failed to garner real appeal in the community.

ADA exists, although I am unaware if the profile is open to the community or not, and it has only so far appeared with one set, and only as laser infill.

Novelpro remains a hopeful contender for me, but that's going to have to wait on real results, and it's still about a year off for samples, IIRC.

As for HuB? I see no chance of it succeeding as long as the project is being headed by it's rather... divisive creator.

OEM? No comment.

Really this mostly stems from my frustration over a lack of spherical profile sets. There have been a couple, but mostly in colorways I find pretty unappealing. and when they do run, they seem to almost always be DSA or XDA PBT. I can't even remember the last time I saw an ABS DSA keyset ran. I really hope that KAT is actually able to get somewhere, as that's what I see as having the best chance at reducing this slew of GMK ICs. While it's PBT and not ABS, Keyreative DOES offer reverse and multicolor dyesubbing, and it's turned out very well in the past. This would certainly help improve the color options as opposed to standard dyesubbing. in addition, it's extremely thick, at about 1.7mm, making it even thicker than Cherry profile. It's also supposed to have an extremely smooth finish, and a sculpt similar to Cherry, but with spherical tops.

I don't know though, seeing the same profile over and over starts to make everything feel samey.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 08 May 2019, 15:38:47
People generally seem to want some combination of the following, in no particular order:

  • Bright color options, including the ability to do light-on-dark
  • Crisp clean legends
  • Durability to scuffs
  • Not too tall, both for aesthetic reasons and for typing comfort (low wobble, don't need to hold hand way up high over the board or use a tall wrist rest)
  • Nice wide typing surface with relatively small gaps
  • Some curvature in the tops (i.e. not flat tops)
  • Sculpted profile
  • That classic Cherry look
  • Thick plastic for deeper sound and smoother/softer feel
  • Reliable manufacturing with good QC
  • Easy to get in touch with and work with (as a Westerner)

GMK ticks all of those boxes. All other keycaps fail in at least one or two categories.

NPKC and WinMix/KPRepublic Cherry profile is less "premium", has ugly modifier legends, and the latter has serious QC problems. Also it's PBT.

Tai-Hao OEM is fine quality but people just don't like typing on OEM, and has poor compatibility. They also don't run custom color GBs to my knowledge.

NPKC PBT OEM has great compatibility but it's still OEM. Additionally has a "rough" texture that lots of people don't like, and doesn't feel premium. Personally I think OEM is underrated for its typing experience but it also has a stigma that will be hard to get over.

Tai-Hao Cubic is like SA in that it's tall and chunky and not super comfortable to type on, also it's unbelievably loud and clacky due to the shape of the keycaps, and has not-great compatibiilty. And like their OEM, they don't do custom GBs, and the existing colorway (apart from Concrete) are frankly wack. Unlike SA it's not really beautiful either. Cubic is nobody's favorite.

DSA is making somewhat of a comeback, with Milkshake and now Scientific. This is deserved. DSA is a good profile, especially as mid-angle boards (4-7 degrees) are starting to gain popularity.

SA, whether SP or Maxkey, doesn't have the elite status it once had, but it still has its diehard fans. The common sentiment is "nice to look at and listen to (except the spacebar), not comfortable to type on".

People like KAT, MT3, EPBT Cherry profile, and MDA, but there's only so much you can do aesthetically with PBT. Novelpro is going to be another PBT player, more of an MT3 competitor than anything, and it's still a long way off at any rate. Also new KAT sets are basically unavailable due to issues at Keyreative and ZFrontier. EPBT is getting more popularity as the quality continues to rise (thanks for your hard work Gok!). MDA feels nice but I think it looks kinda weird and that turns people off. XDA is polarizing, either you love it or you hate it; it lacks mass appeal. MT3 is the same way, albeit with a bit of additional respect for its vintage aesthetic.

JTK keycaps don't feel or sound as nice as GMK for some reason, and the wonky legend issues still aren't fixed.

MT3 ABS has weird/bad font and the first set still hasn't shipped.

So what's left? Nothing.

Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.

As far as I know, SP has stated they have no intentions on bringing back thick DCS, as our relatively small demand (compared to most of their partners) is very low, and it doesn't really provide any benefit for them. I'd be surprised if DSS came out thin, considering it's relation to the SA profile. I believe some people have found test caps in grab bags from them too, and they look similar to SA in thickness, which IIRC is about 1.6mm
SA Probably won't get a whole lot of attention due to SP still having a fairly lengthy backlog, and Maxkey quality still being pretty subpar. To my knowledge, SP has not been running very many ABS or PBT DSA sets as of late, so I can see that being a potentially good option. Keyreative has effectively ceased making DSA sets due to QC issues with the cap provider, and their KAT/KAM profiles future seems uncertain, as they still haven't delivered on KAT Starry Night, thought it was supposed to ship a month or two ago.

Certainly, MT3 has it's issues in ABS with MD insisting on going with a SA like font, which is honestly too large. The PBT sets have had their legending issues sorted out from what I can see with my Dev/TTY R2 caps, so that's a possibility, although limited by having to be run through MD, on their time schedule, if at all.

I've always been a little surprised at how Polarizing XDA is, since it's very similar to DSA, just with a wider top. Most every set I've seen done in the profile has turned out excellently, although it is limited to just PBT, and I don't know of any reverse dyesub sets existing.

MDA does look weird, although nice to type on, I agree. Pretty understandable why it's failed to garner real appeal in the community.

ADA exists, although I am unaware if the profile is open to the community or not, and it has only so far appeared with one set, and only as laser infill.

Novelpro remains a hopeful contender for me, but that's going to have to wait on real results, and it's still about a year off for samples, IIRC.

As for HuB? I see no chance of it succeeding as long as the project is being headed by it's rather... divisive creator.

OEM? No comment.

Really this mostly stems from my frustration over a lack of spherical profile sets. There have been a couple, but mostly in colorways I find pretty unappealing. and when they do run, they seem to almost always be DSA or XDA PBT. I can't even remember the last time I saw an ABS DSA keyset ran. I really hope that KAT is actually able to get somewhere, as that's what I see as having the best chance at reducing this slew of GMK ICs. While it's PBT and not ABS, Keyreative DOES offer reverse and multicolor dyesubbing, and it's turned out very well in the past. This would certainly help improve the color options as opposed to standard dyesubbing. in addition, it's extremely thick, at about 1.7mm, making it even thicker than Cherry profile. It's also supposed to have an extremely smooth finish, and a sculpt similar to Cherry, but with spherical tops.

I don't know though, seeing the same profile over and over starts to make everything feel samey.
I think you just thoroughly explained why everyone is going GMK.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: ArchDill on Wed, 08 May 2019, 15:56:51
(https://media.giphy.com/media/8lQyyys3SGBoUUxrUp/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: wholypantalones on Wed, 08 May 2019, 16:03:59
You are overstating it. I can never have too many GMK sets.
Sure you can. Have you at least given thought to trying other profiles?

Thought about it once or twice when the expensive, chunks of regret were placed on my switches and come to find out I don't actually like other profiles.

Things like terrible legends, twisted stems and having to put tape on stabilizers so the caps do not fall off come to mind. Never had an issue with cherry profile from GMK. It's not the only option, but it's the best option for now in so many aspects.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: lightsout714 on Wed, 08 May 2019, 16:17:16
It is crazy how many ic's there are lately. But I have to disagree on the profile front. Cherry is where it's at.

But as far as typing I'm loving some epbt. I want to grab up every set I can.

GMK is beautiful but once they shine imo they look a lot less attractive.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: cekagekh on Wed, 08 May 2019, 17:25:53
You are overstating it. I can never have too many GMK sets.
Sure you can. Have you at least given thought to trying other profiles?

I did, multiple times: DSA (both SP ones and knockoffs), XDA, MT3, etc. I haven't tried SA though. However, given that I didn't really enjoy the height of MT3, which are too tall for my liking, I probably won't enjoy SA either.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: deacon on Thu, 09 May 2019, 11:23:02
Because of the volume of GMK GBs there was finally a set that had the minimum features I needed to participate. Even then there was a compromise with novelty legends instead of correct legends and just barely enough 1u convex caps. Further, this probably led to the success of the GMK

Cherry profile isn't ideal but it works and GMK's addition of small convex caps makes it worth it for me.

I'd love to see KAT in something other than white with small convex caps or even SP selling DSS blanks so I wouldn't be stuck with it's sculpturing.

I can't really get a read on if the GMK saturation is stifling the broadening of the key cap market but GMK GBs has certainly expanded as HUB failed and KAT stagnated for their own reasons.


 
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 10 May 2019, 00:58:46
Printed Keycaps are for Scrubs..

Tru Keeb-warriors use Blanks... ANNNND    ERGODOX..
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Hālian on Fri, 10 May 2019, 01:05:54
I personally find it irritating that the vast majority, if not the entirety, of SA and DSA GBs of late are sculpted, when the A means that all rows have the same profile. It may well be on account of my autism, but regardless it bothers me unnaturally. :x

Printed Keycaps are for Scrubs..

Tru Keeb-warriors use Blanks... ANNNND    ERGODOX..


I don't like the smell of gatekeeping in the morning.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 10 May 2019, 05:29:26
I personally find it irritating that the vast majority, if not the entirety, of SA and DSA GBs of late are sculpted, when the A means that all rows have the same profile.

DSA keycaps are all the same height (all rows have the same profile) they are not sculpted.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: lightsout714 on Fri, 10 May 2019, 10:19:45
Printed Keycaps are for Scrubs..

Tru Keeb-warriors use Blanks... ANNNND    ERGODOX..


TP, that sig is getting out of control.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 May 2019, 10:54:00
DSS is neither thick nor thin.  But itís certainly thinner than some would hope

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93584.msg2551027#msg2551027
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: funderburker on Fri, 10 May 2019, 15:46:25
1) Post GMK IC with some free renders
2) Change your Geekhack avatar to promote said GMK IC
3) ? ? ?
4) You are now a "Product Designer"

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKRSGkMqOXdSU7K/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: tex_live_utility on Fri, 10 May 2019, 18:53:54
Printed Keycaps are for Scrubs..

Tru Keeb-warriors use Blanks... ANNNND    ERGODOX..

Except the Ergodox literally gave me RSI in my thumbs due to the bad positioning of the thumb cluster, which has prevented me from comfortably using other thumb-cluster keyboards as a result. So no thanks.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Hālian on Fri, 10 May 2019, 19:42:08
I personally find it irritating that the vast majority, if not the entirety, of SA and DSA GBs of late are sculpted, when the A means that all rows have the same profile.

DSA keycaps are all the same height (all rows have the same profile) they are not sculpted.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 10 May 2019, 20:33:08
G20 profile gang
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Sup on Sat, 11 May 2019, 16:38:53
Lets be honest there only gonna be 3 profiles in the enthusiast community Cherry,SA,MT3. Other then that i doubt there is gonna be anything else. And most people like cherry profile key caps :).
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Sintpinty on Sat, 11 May 2019, 21:43:08
We need more g20 group buys
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 11 May 2019, 22:36:59
Show Image
(https://images.wagwalkingweb.com/media/articles/dog/salt-poisoning/salt-poisoning.jpg)

'Tis but a mere observation, dear sir.

The way that you stated it in the OP had more heat than an observation.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: romevi on Sun, 12 May 2019, 00:43:23
GMK Enough is ENOUGH keyset when?
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Zambumon on Sun, 12 May 2019, 04:56:01
GMK Enough is ENOUGH keyset when?

JTK version first.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sun, 12 May 2019, 11:52:28

Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: thick DCS.

The really old Wyse terminal keycaps were a thick ABS doubleshot. It's a fun vintage profile that's sculpted kind of like OEM or MT3 are.

Except the bottom row is a bit of a disaster, because few want to type on an angled spacebar like that. So it would have to ship with a conventional spacebar option.

The legend quality of the Wyse terminal keycaps was spectacular. Better than Cherry. I'm typing on them right now. Nice Gorton Modified font, extremely crisp and high-contrast (if desired), even 30 years later. And they sound better than Cherry.

So, to meet your criteria of thick, great legends, good sounding, vintage appeal and Western manufacturer, I'm kind of surprised they haven't revived thick DCS. I doubt SP has the molds anymore, but they do have the design and license, presumably. And the credibility. Just the bottom row would have to be altered a bit, or optional Cherry spacebar. Again, I'm doing it right now.

(Basically, I am agreeing with you strongly here. They need to bring back Comptec DCS. There's kind of a lack-of-vision at SP right now. 'Gee, GMK is raking in the money with 500,000 different custom sets backlogged for years. Do we have any kind of equivalent vintage low-profile thick ABS keycap that people could make colourful designs in? Hmm, I guess not.')
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: MarbleKeeb on Sun, 12 May 2019, 13:54:13
That's some great insights on the industry.

I personally guess GMK are much easier to do, so yeah, many more ICs on GMK.
But that will naturally lead to develop other profiles, when people want to innovate.
I would also love to see more MT3 and XDA.. (I am not fan of GMK / Cherry)
So just have to wait the ICs (as I don't think I could do it myself)

But we still have to keep in minds we are in a small hobby. When we see the GBs figures, even on popular keyset, it is only a few hundreds orders..
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 12 May 2019, 14:07:17
GMK Enough is ENOUGH keyset when?

Make sure it has gray and cyan.  We don't have ENOUGH of those.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Surefoot on Mon, 13 May 2019, 10:07:23
Im a spherical profile enthusiast, and expensive ABS sets are only appealing to me due to the nice colors, as they'll shine and lose their nice looks over time.
To the very well detailed posts made before i'll just add (in random order):
- XDAS profile (1.5mm+ PBT, dye sub, very smooth). Typing on one right now, it's a real pleasure for fingertips. XDA haters will hate even more. Dunno if we can somehow convince the chinese company that makes these to do more for us...
- more KAT profile would be a very good thing. It's so thick, smooth and comfortable..
- i am starting to see double shot PBT SA sets on aliexpress (backlighting compatible) so at least some chinese companies are getting there.. Proves that it's possible to start with, so nice colorways can be a thing :)
- and there's KAM profile too (cant wait for KAM Wraith)
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Sintpinty on Mon, 13 May 2019, 10:10:31
I think they should do more group buys in G20 profile.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 13 May 2019, 10:40:42
I think they should do more group buys in G20 profile.

G20 has been out of production for a little while.

Quote
Many of you are wondering what happened to the G20 keysets for Semiotic and Stealth. G20 was an experiment. We wanted to test market acceptance of a fairly unique shape and profile using some prototype tooling. The results were very positive and we are now in the process of designing and building new G20 production tooling. We will continue to run G20 blanks on the prototype tooling but, due to the cosmetic challenges during printing, we will not be sublimating keysets from this prototype tooling. I'm hesitant to say when the new tooling will be production ready. Our track record for release of new tooling (SA-P, DSS) has been less than stellar, but we are hoping to have pre-production sets available by the summer of 2019.
Quote

https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 13 May 2019, 10:46:21

Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: thick DCS.

The really old Wyse terminal keycaps were a thick ABS doubleshot. It's a fun vintage profile that's sculpted kind of like OEM or MT3 are.

Except the bottom row is a bit of a disaster, because few want to type on an angled spacebar like that. So it would have to ship with a conventional spacebar option.

The legend quality of the Wyse terminal keycaps was spectacular. Better than Cherry. I'm typing on them right now. Nice Gorton Modified font, extremely crisp and high-contrast (if desired), even 30 years later. And they sound better than Cherry.

So, to meet your criteria of thick, great legends, good sounding, vintage appeal and Western manufacturer, I'm kind of surprised they haven't revived thick DCS. I doubt SP has the molds anymore, but they do have the design and license, presumably. And the credibility. Just the bottom row would have to be altered a bit, or optional Cherry spacebar. Again, I'm doing it right now.

(Basically, I am agreeing with you strongly here. They need to bring back Comptec DCS. There's kind of a lack-of-vision at SP right now. 'Gee, GMK is raking in the money with 500,000 different custom sets backlogged for years. Do we have any kind of equivalent vintage low-profile thick ABS keycap that people could make colourful designs in? Hmm, I guess not.')

+1, happy someone sees the light here ;D

Imagine if all the time and money they spent on G20 and SP-P they spent on reviving OG DCS instead; even DCS can wait now that we have KAT.

For what it's worth, I love how steeply contoured the bottom DCS row is, but for mass appeal I agree that the spacebar at least should probably be flattened out.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: HungerMechanic on Mon, 13 May 2019, 11:57:54
Yes, exactly. Thick DCS has a positive reputation among those who know it in the enthusiast community. It would have its advocates on-line.

Plus, it's extremely vintage and retro. We're talking Comptec, which is Pre-SP. And Deskthority loves the Wyse boards, if their Wiki is any indication.

It's an Ur-Keycap.

Imagine making SoWaRe on thick DCS. It could be one of their first new sets. And with way more cred and appeal than GMK SoWaRe.

Also, yes, Cherry-profile spacebar does work well together with DCS bottom row, as I am doing it right now. It could be an option you select at purchase: Cherry spacebar or DCS spacebar.
Title: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: nguyenhimself on Mon, 13 May 2019, 12:05:36
who cares

just don't buy what you don't want
Good to know I can always count on you to add nothing to the conversation.
Thatís a valid point tho. If you donít plan to buy those GMK sets, why do you care?
Right now I only participate in 2 ICs: GMK Hammerhead and GMK Unit-01, because only those 2 sets suit my tastes in colors.
All the other dozen ICs, they might as well not exist to me.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 13 May 2019, 22:43:05
Yes, exactly. Thick DCS has a positive reputation among those who know it in the enthusiast community. It would have its advocates on-line.

Plus, it's extremely vintage and retro. We're talking Comptec, which is Pre-SP. And Deskthority loves the Wyse boards, if their Wiki is any indication.

It's an Ur-Keycap.

Imagine making SoWaRe on thick DCS. It could be one of their first new sets. And with way more cred and appeal than GMK SoWaRe.

Also, yes, Cherry-profile spacebar does work well together with DCS bottom row, as I am doing it right now. It could be an option you select at purchase: Cherry spacebar or DCS spacebar.

Re: SoWaRe, how about just running the actual Wyse colors? There's a photo on the DT wiki with near-perfect matches from SP color chips.

I also misunderstood what you meant about the bottom row. I'm not sure SP will ever be able to produce a true Cherry profile spaceber, but I agree 100%, Cherry profile spacebar goes great with DCS, both in looks and feel.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: depletedvespene on Thu, 16 May 2019, 14:48:08
GMK Enough is ENOUGH keyset when?

That keyset should be composed entirely of ISO Enter keys.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: deacon on Thu, 16 May 2019, 15:04:55
That keyset should be composed entirely of ISO Enter keys.

Someone designed the board already...

http://www.40percent.club/2018/11/i-s-hole.html (http://www.40percent.club/2018/11/i-s-hole.html)
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: depletedvespene on Thu, 16 May 2019, 15:20:59
That keyset should be composed entirely of ISO Enter keys.

Someone designed the board already...

http://www.40percent.club/2018/11/i-s-hole.html (http://www.40percent.club/2018/11/i-s-hole.html)

Too small.

I have a tongue-in-cheek layout designed (but shall never see the light of day!) that uses ISO Enter keys and specialty 3◊2U keys. It's an ortholinear keyboard for giants.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Sintpinty on Thu, 16 May 2019, 15:51:21
I think they should do more group buys in G20 profile.

G20 has been out of production for a little while.

Quote
Many of you are wondering what happened to the G20 keysets for Semiotic and Stealth. G20 was an experiment. We wanted to test market acceptance of a fairly unique shape and profile using some prototype tooling. The results were very positive and we are now in the process of designing and building new G20 production tooling. We will continue to run G20 blanks on the prototype tooling but, due to the cosmetic challenges during printing, we will not be sublimating keysets from this prototype tooling. I'm hesitant to say when the new tooling will be production ready. Our track record for release of new tooling (SA-P, DSS) has been less than stellar, but we are hoping to have pre-production sets available by the summer of 2019.
Quote

https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/

D:
I am a g20 lover.  Maybe i might be able to make my own G20 keycaps someday..
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Slavadavadingdong on Sat, 18 May 2019, 14:20:37
I love GMK, have not seen a font and quality that I would prefer over it. When someone makes something that would appeal to me more, I will buy that instead.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: RominRonin on Mon, 17 June 2019, 18:37:43
Gmk really does satisfy everyoneís needs for quality and reliability... other competitors such like SP take too long because they donít have the establishments for it. There is only one way for gmk sets to diminish, if pbt set makers like enjoypbt find a way to incorporate more colors into the sets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is not a matter of manufacturer, but keycap profiles. Everyone wants to run their sets in Cherry ABS for some reason, and there are plenty of great profiles out there not being utilized. Everything does NOT need to be cherry profile, or even doubleshot ABS. Variety is good.

People generally seem to want some combination of the following, in no particular order:

  • Bright color options, including the ability to do light-on-dark
  • Crisp clean legends
  • Durability to scuffs
  • Not too tall, both for aesthetic reasons and for typing comfort (low wobble, don't need to hold hand way up high over the board or use a tall wrist rest)
  • Nice wide typing surface with relatively small gaps
  • Some curvature in the tops (i.e. not flat tops)
  • Sculpted profile
  • That classic Cherry look
  • Thick plastic for deeper sound and smoother/softer feel
  • Reliable manufacturing with good QC
  • Easy to get in touch with and work with (as a Westerner)

GMK ticks all of those boxes. All other keycaps fail in at least one or two categories.

NPKC and WinMix/KPRepublic Cherry profile is less "premium", has ugly modifier legends, and the latter has serious QC problems. Also it's PBT.

Tai-Hao OEM is fine quality but people just don't like typing on OEM, and has poor compatibility. They also don't run custom color GBs to my knowledge.

NPKC PBT OEM has great compatibility but it's still OEM. Additionally has a "rough" texture that lots of people don't like, and doesn't feel premium. Personally I think OEM is underrated for its typing experience but it also has a stigma that will be hard to get over.

Tai-Hao Cubic is like SA in that it's tall and chunky and not super comfortable to type on, also it's unbelievably loud and clacky due to the shape of the keycaps, and has not-great compatibiilty. And like their OEM, they don't do custom GBs, and the existing colorway (apart from Concrete) are frankly wack. Unlike SA it's not really beautiful either. Cubic is nobody's favorite.

DSA is making somewhat of a comeback, with Milkshake and now Scientific. This is deserved. DSA is a good profile, especially as mid-angle boards (4-7 degrees) are starting to gain popularity.

SA, whether SP or Maxkey, doesn't have the elite status it once had, but it still has its diehard fans. The common sentiment is "nice to look at and listen to (except the spacebar), not comfortable to type on".

People like KAT, MT3, EPBT Cherry profile, and MDA, but there's only so much you can do aesthetically with PBT. Novelpro is going to be another PBT player, more of an MT3 competitor than anything, and it's still a long way off at any rate. Also new KAT sets are basically unavailable due to issues at Keyreative and ZFrontier. EPBT is getting more popularity as the quality continues to rise (thanks for your hard work Gok!). MDA feels nice but I think it looks kinda weird and that turns people off. XDA is polarizing, either you love it or you hate it; it lacks mass appeal. MT3 is the same way, albeit with a bit of additional respect for its vintage aesthetic.

JTK keycaps don't feel or sound as nice as GMK for some reason, and the wonky legend issues still aren't fixed.

MT3 ABS has weird/bad font and the first set still hasn't shipped.

So what's left? Nothing.

Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.
Jason @ the key. Company is working with an alternative producer of dye sub pbt caps in cherry profile. The pictures I've seen so far are very promising, but they didn't perform so well (had to cancel some colour combinations during the gb).

I think we should be keeping an eye on those, because the price is right and the quality looks high.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Fate on Tue, 18 June 2019, 06:55:19
My favorite element of GMK interest checks is the exposure to the broad variety of "black" and "white" colors that GMK has access to - it's fascinating watching someone deploy a new white-on-black or black-on-white GMK set that has ever so slightly more or less tint in any direction from everyone else's set because dammit it's just not black-on-white ENOUGH to buy GMK Stormtrooper or GMK Asphalt Snow or GMK Death in Winter or whatever.

It's like going to a Linux user conference. Everyone's reinventing that wheel.
Title: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: nguyenhimself on Tue, 18 June 2019, 08:53:11
My favorite element of GMK interest checks is the exposure to the broad variety of "black" and "white" colors that GMK has access to - it's fascinating watching someone deploy a new white-on-black or black-on-white GMK set that has ever so slightly more or less tint in any direction from everyone else's set because dammit it's just not black-on-white ENOUGH to buy GMK Stormtrooper or GMK Asphalt Snow or GMK Death in Winter or whatever.

It's like going to a Linux user conference. Everyone's reinventing that wheel.
NoFunAllowed.svg
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 18 June 2019, 11:50:50
Too much
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Tue, 18 June 2019, 12:14:42
Can we say "Streisand" effect? Because I discovered, and am about to purchase, GMK keycaps due to this thread. =D
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: tex_live_utility on Thu, 20 June 2019, 21:00:22
My favorite element of GMK interest checks is the exposure to the broad variety of "black" and "white" colors that GMK has access to - it's fascinating watching someone deploy a new white-on-black or black-on-white GMK set that has ever so slightly more or less tint in any direction from everyone else's set because dammit it's just not black-on-white ENOUGH to buy GMK Stormtrooper or GMK Asphalt Snow or GMK Death in Winter or whatever.

It's like going to a Linux user conference. Everyone's reinventing that wheel.

Or some people just like variety and/or have particular taste.

There are plenty of other things to consider about a GMK set apart from color. You can look at the mod legend choices (icon? text? both? which numpad symbols?), kit design (small or big? how much ISO support? novelties?), or matching with other stuff like your keyboard, artisans, deskmats, etc.

If none of that matters to you, then great! You'll save a lot of money. But I think it's pretty off-base to say that multiple variations of BoW are "reinventing the wheel" -- that would imply that each of these GB runners is pretending that their BoW is the only correct one, or something like that.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: depletedvespene on Thu, 20 June 2019, 21:10:17
Ö
If none of that matters to you, then great! You'll save a lot of money. But I think it's pretty off-base to say that multiple variations of BoW are "reinventing the wheel" -- that would imply that each of these GB runners is pretending that their BoW is the only correct one, or something like that.

Have you seen my IC for GMK BOWDONERIGHTONCEANDFORALL? :p
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Applet on Mon, 24 June 2019, 10:12:52
Yes, thick doubleshot DCS (also with alps mount), please  :D
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Gampela on Tue, 25 June 2019, 03:27:07
I wonder if the people manufacturing Leopold's doupleshot pbt keycaps could start selling them separately and/or working with community. They have already released them in bunch of different color variations.


Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 25 June 2019, 09:19:15
I have an FC900R PD arriving after the 10th, so I'll be able to compare directly with Wyse DCS keycaps as to quality.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: siijunn on Fri, 28 June 2019, 16:58:44
I have noticed an influx of GMK. That is fine with my since I'm a pretty big fan of it to begin with :P

I feel like some styles just work better with GMK opposed to things like SA. Maybe I'd need to see a render or something, but I feel like sets like Oblivion, Olivia, Hyperfuse, and Terminal just look soo good as GMK. I don't know how I'd feel about them in something else.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: tex_live_utility on Sun, 30 June 2019, 07:33:05
I wonder if the people manufacturing Leopold's doupleshot pbt keycaps could start selling them separately and/or working with community. They have already released them in bunch of different color variations.

  • Cherry esque profile (might have own name?) Lays slightly lower than cherrys, which is kinda cool.
  • More textured surface, some people like, some don't.
  • Super clean and well designed legends.
  • The keyboards are selling cheaper than most of the GMK base sets, so I imagine keycaps themselves would be rather affordable. Ofc smaller quantities and need for more molds would incresase the price, but at least it's not based in Germany.

Leopold could probably make big margins selling the keycaps separately.
Title: Re: Enough is ENOUGH
Post by: Tonkatonk on Sun, 30 June 2019, 11:33:16
nice.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk