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geekhack Marketplace => Group Buys and Preorders => Topic started by: bpiphany on Tue, 28 August 2012, 05:25:09

Title: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 28 August 2012, 05:25:09
[attachimg=1]
Image courtesy of fruktstund (at least I hope that is ok..)

Wiki page with instructions http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_Instructions

Solder yourself instruction http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_DIY_Instructions

Please contribute there if you have information to share =)

What is this all about?
Ever wanted your Filco tenkeyless to have a programmable controller? Thought it sounded a bit insane to build a Phantom only for this reason? What if you could just simply replace the stock controller daughter board in your keyboard with a programmable one? Why not I say.

With this replacement daughter board you will basically have a Teensy that plugs conveniently into your Filco tenkeyless.  There are a number of different keyboard project with code running on the Teensy that should be easily adopted to work with this controller.

The ATmega32u4 chip
This is the same chip as on the Teensy2.0. It is a 16MHz 8-bit AVR from Atmel.

It has 32kB of flash to hold the bootloader, firmware code and key matrix information. The flash memory is read only during normal operation, so it can only be altered when loading code onto it through the bootloader. Both the stock bootloader from Atmel and the open source bootloader from LUFA take 4kB of the flash memory. The very basic code for the Phantom with one single layer key matrix takes almost 9kB. This leaves more than 18kB for custom layers and macros or whatever.

There is 2.5kB of SRAM memory, this is used to run the program and store variables during runtime. It is like normal RAM memory erased when the power is cut.

There is also 1kB of EEPROM memory available, this can be used to store data when the power is off. So any recorded macro or on the fly remappings should be stored here.

Flashing the firmware
Almost all code for AVRs you will find is written in c and compiled to hex files. It is these hex files that are flashed to the chip. The flashing is done through a program running on your computer, talking to the chip via the bootloader. I haven't tried this in Windows but there are applications to do this that should be easily maneuvered. I will look into this and make sure there are no problems. In Linux I've got everything under control.

The TeensyLoader that the Teensys use will unfortunately not be available since that is PJRC proprietary. This is only a slight drawback. It may be more user friendly, and their bootloader is much smaller, but all in all this doesn't make a big difference.

Compatibility
I have based this design on my "gen2" Filco tenkeyless. I believe there are no differences compared to the "gen1" keyboard except the higher quality PCB. Electrically everything is the same. I cannot guarantee that it will work for everyone though since there may be differences I don't know about. If your keyboard turns out to be incompatible this would of course be handled somehow. Passing it on to someone else for example, or in the worst case returning it for a refund.

The Filco main PCB that I have reverse engineered is a "gen2" marked "CST-F87/88/89/91-MB V1.1" 2010-11-09, and the controller is marked "Tenkeyless PCBA Rev 2.1-ESD" 2010-08-24.

There are pictures of the stock controller in this thread http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=6557 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=6557)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Tue, 28 August 2012, 08:59:03
Pardon my ignorance, I'm not sure what this would do.

Two potentially dumb questions:
1) this would add programmability to a Filco tenkeyless?
2) would this work with a Leopold tenkeyless?

Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 28 August 2012, 09:00:04
1. Yes.
2. Most probably not.

It may not be obvious what that is supposed to do if you've never taken a Filco tenkeyless apart... I should have found a picture, there are no dumb questions =)

There is a picture of the original controller showing in this thread http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=6557.0
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tipo33 on Tue, 28 August 2012, 09:06:49
So every key will be programmable?  Hardware Colemac? :D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Tue, 28 August 2012, 09:10:10
1. Yes.
2. Most probably not.

It may not be obvious what that is supposed to do if you've never taken a Filco tenkeyless apart... I should have found a picture, there are no dumb questions =)

There is a picture of the original controller showing in this thread http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=6557.0

If I bought you a Leopold TKL, could you reverse-engineer it?
(100% serious)

Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 28 August 2012, 09:13:36
I am in for 3 of these. Maybe 4.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 28 August 2012, 09:14:52
Another dumb question (and probably unrelated)... with additional modding would be possible to make it wireless?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: reaper on Tue, 28 August 2012, 09:16:08
^ But then you would need additional hardware, I think.  :)   Anyway, for $20 I might be in for one... just to play around with it. lol
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 28 August 2012, 09:39:59
I do not think the Leopold KBs have a daughterboard controller, so I don't think this is possible to do for Leopold.

bpiphany:  I have a Gen 1 TKL w/ a gen 2 controller in it (as purchased), so you are all set there.

I want 2 of these.  Will you be sourcing the components to get lower prices if we hit a reasonable Q?  At the very least it would combine shipping costs :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 28 August 2012, 10:22:20
I think I will be sourcing the components, do the soldering, setting them up with the LUFA bootloader, and some basic firmware all by myself..

Good to know about the "gen 1" controller.

To get a bit technical: The only pesky thing is the number of I/O lines on the stock controller chip. The matrix is 8 rows by 18 columns plus LEDs, pushing it the ATmega32u4 only has 26 I/O pins. I get around this by using a BCD decoder to drive the rows using only 3 controller pins. This requires that those pins are all connected to either rows or columns. This makes the daughter board a little bit vulnerable to design changes by Filco to the mother board. Another solution would be to use the bigger chip from the Teensy++, but the easily soldered version of that won't fit the board.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 28 August 2012, 12:04:18
Yeah, I ran into that when I contemplated doing exactly what you are already.  At the time I didn't know enough to think of parts for IO multiplexing.  Also, rather awesome of you to do assembly. 
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: mickd on Tue, 28 August 2012, 12:10:39
Will we need to solder this chip in ourselves? Or is the chip inside a Filco board detachable? I've never opened my Filco up before, but this sounds interesting! Would love to see some more pictures later if you get the time :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 28 August 2012, 12:40:31
Did you read the thread?  I'm pretty sure this is completely explained but not in so few words as:

Filco TKL keyboards use a daughterboard to hold all the controller logic.  bp has designed a replacement daughterboard and intends on assembling them before shipping them out to buyers.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 28 August 2012, 12:46:11
The Filco controller daughterboard connects to the Filco using standard GPIO pins, with the pins soldered to the daughterboard and plugged into pin sockets on the PCB. It's located between the cursor arrows and the 6-pack keys.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: mickd on Tue, 28 August 2012, 12:48:58
Yes sorry, I read the whole thread. I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to electronics. That bit where he said he was going to get a bit technical.. well.. it went right over my head ha. Guess that means it'll it won't just plug and play :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 28 August 2012, 12:53:42
Open the keyboard, unplug the old controller from the socket, plug this new one in, close it back up, and THEN play. :P
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: DanGWanG on Tue, 28 August 2012, 12:56:21
Will this allow a Filco to utilize LEDs on switches?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: boost on Tue, 28 August 2012, 13:18:53
Put me down for 1-2
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: inlikeflynn on Tue, 28 August 2012, 13:22:45
me too, i'll take 1
Title: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Saviant on Tue, 28 August 2012, 13:53:39
I would be down for 2 if this takes off.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 28 August 2012, 14:30:15
Will this allow a Filco to utilize LEDs on switches?

It's not magic, there's still no traces under the switches for LEDs and there's no controller lines left to control LEDs.  It will be able to control the Scroll Lock and Caps Lock LEDs if my eyes aren't playing tricks on me.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 28 August 2012, 14:34:37
I would be interested too. 6kr shipping in a letter?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 28 August 2012, 14:37:52
bpiphany - I volunteer to do US/CA shipping if it makes sense to group-ship.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: DanGWanG on Tue, 28 August 2012, 15:29:35
Will this allow a Filco to utilize LEDs on switches?

It's not magic, there's still no traces under the switches for LEDs and there's no controller lines left to control LEDs.  It will be able to control the Scroll Lock and Caps Lock LEDs if my eyes aren't playing tricks on me.

I have 0 knowledge about PCBs, circuits or electric related things, but thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 28 August 2012, 15:34:19
OT: Does the Filco PCB have holes for LEDs where the caps lock and scroll lock are? I can't remember. You could remove the LEDs from their current locations and run wires to connect them under the switch housing, but it would be better if the PCB had holes there, so you could wire it under the PCB.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 28 August 2012, 15:43:56
Another dumb question (and probably unrelated)... with additional modding would be possible to make it wireless?

The only ("easy") way to connect to the controller board will still be through the USB connector. So it will probably be just as possible as with an unmodified board.

I would be interested too. 6kr shipping in a letter?

Probably 12SEK ($2), the 20g limit for 6SEK is very light.

$4 for EU shipping, and about the same for the rest of the world. That is if I get below the 100g limit. The next level is $8 for a maximum of 250g.

I would be down for 2 if this takes off.

I would have made it happen no matter what. Most of all I was interested in getting an idea of how many PCBs to order, 10, 20, or 100, or whatever. I will probably add some margin to have some extra if there are any latecomers. These are cheap enough for me to put some of my own money on the line.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 28 August 2012, 15:55:56
Everyone with a Filco should want this upgrade. Why wouldn't you want the ability to program the controller?
Title: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: longweight on Tue, 28 August 2012, 16:13:35
In for one, UK based.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 28 August 2012, 16:20:58
Don't have a Filco, but might someday


In for one :D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 28 August 2012, 16:23:10
OT: Does the Filco PCB have holes for LEDs where the caps lock and scroll lock are? I can't remember. You could remove the LEDs from their current locations and run wires to connect them under the switch housing, but it would be better if the PCB had holes there, so you could wire it under the PCB.

No, there are only the regular locations above the navigation cluster.



I'm adding a deadline for this, CET midnight 2012-09-09. I will probably wont at least 80% or so to have paid before ordering everything...
Title: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: longweight on Tue, 28 August 2012, 16:25:33
Don't have a Filco, but might someday


In for one :D

Join us!

We are winning!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: sth on Tue, 28 August 2012, 16:25:46
I dont currently have a filco but I am interested in one of these especially if it helps a MOQ or to lower the price.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 28 August 2012, 16:27:50
If you don't get this, you WILL regret it later.

I'm talking to you. No, not sth. Not The_Beast. YOU!

Yes, this will only work on a Filco. You don't have a Filco? Why not?!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: sth on Tue, 28 August 2012, 16:29:24
Better keyboards in the mail :) Trying to pare down my cherry collection.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tipo33 on Tue, 28 August 2012, 16:45:32
In for one.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 28 August 2012, 16:51:49
Hey, this should also work on a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid (really fast, gogogo, super speed) model.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Tue, 28 August 2012, 17:07:08
Interested in 2
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WRXChris on Tue, 28 August 2012, 20:01:42
I'll take 2!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: N8N on Tue, 28 August 2012, 20:03:07
You know, it's been so long since I had my Filco apart that I don't recall what it looks like... I'm ASSuming that the controller for a std. ANSI 104-key board is completely different and therefore I have no use for this controller?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alixinhzai on Tue, 28 August 2012, 21:09:25
I'm in for 1
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 28 August 2012, 21:21:51
If I look up the matrix or pinout on my CMstorm, can you check compatibility?

I'd be in for 1-3, depending on how many keyboards I have when this comes out.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 28 August 2012, 21:39:00
you think you can get it down to 20$ stuffed/unit?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 28 August 2012, 21:49:09
In for one.  What an awesome idea!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Tue, 28 August 2012, 21:57:29
lol this controller idea made half of the phantom builds obsolete (excludes people that bought phantom for winkeyless or cherry modifiers). I bought phandom hardware for the idea of programing native colmak/dvorak into the keyboard.

Will this controller have muli layer functions?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: skriefal on Tue, 28 August 2012, 22:30:04
I'm a little confused on how this works.  How is the reprogramming done?  [Yes, I've searched and haven't found much.]  Is a firmware rebuild and reload required?  I'm a software developer and don't mind tweaking and rebuilding firmware... just like to know what's involved before I commit.

Definitely interested in at least one unit if the programming/load process isn't too difficult.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 28 August 2012, 22:30:20
lol this controller idea made half of the phantom builds obsolete (excludes people that bought phantom for winkeyless or cherry modifiers). I bought phandom hardware for the idea of programing native colmak/dvorak into the keyboard.

Will this controller have muli layer functions?

True, which  also means this might cause more people to sell me their Phantoms, YAY!

If the controller replaces the original one, all it sees is the activating keys, and if the software remains similar to the Phantom controller, then the functionality ought to remain the same. Why wouldn't it have multilayer functions?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Tue, 28 August 2012, 22:43:35
If the controller replaces the original one, all it sees is the activating keys, and if the software remains similar to the Phantom controller, then the functionality ought to remain the same. Why wouldn't it have multilayer functions?
Because I'm not a software or hardware engineer, and don't know how these things work haha. I just based it on: Filco and it's controller does not support multilayer functions, and since this is reverse engineered from a filco controller, it probably won't have mutilayer ability. Wasn't sure, so that's why I asked.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 28 August 2012, 22:45:20
I'm a little confused on how this works.  How is the reprogramming done?  [Yes, I've searched and haven't found much.]  Is a firmware rebuild and reload required?  I'm a software developer and don't mind tweaking and rebuilding firmware... just like to know what's involved before I commit.

Definitely interested in at least one unit if the programming/load process isn't too difficult.

Current Phantom firmware requires source modification and recompiling to change the key map.  Someone hacked in layers, and everything else is up in the air so far.  The firmware would need to be changed to suit the different matrix on this controller.  Also there are quite a few other firmwares that could be used as a starting point.

WFD - the KB PCB imposes no limitations on the firmware.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: skriefal on Tue, 28 August 2012, 22:57:09
Well, it seems interesting enough.  bpiphany, you can count me in for two.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: litster on Tue, 28 August 2012, 23:08:13
I want to get one or two.  Is $20 including components or just the PCB?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: skriefal on Tue, 28 August 2012, 23:13:58
See Reply # 9 in this thread...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: mickd on Tue, 28 August 2012, 23:50:44
Sounds great! Interested in one :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:39:15
Hey, this should also work on a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid (really fast, gogogo, super speed) model.
The mounting pins would need to be identical. And the matrix would need to be very close to identical for it to work at all. If that is not the case there is still the option to build a cruder version, using just a regular Teensy plus some multiplexing component to expand the number of IO lines. It will be more or less exactly the same thing.

You know, it's been so long since I had my Filco apart that I don't recall what it looks like... I'm ASSuming that the controller for a std. ANSI 104-key board is completely different and therefore I have no use for this controller?
No, the full size boards have another daughter board. It uses the same controller but is totally different. Actually harder to fit an ATmega onto I think. Unfortunate since I am a full size proponent myself..

I'm a little confused on how this works.  How is the reprogramming done?  [Yes, I've searched and haven't found much.]  Is a firmware rebuild and reload required?  I'm a software developer and don't mind tweaking and rebuilding firmware... just like to know what's involved before I commit.

Definitely interested in at least one unit if the programming/load process isn't too difficult.
You will need to have a hex-file, a compiled firmware, that is loaded to the chip through an interfacing software on your computer. With the Teensy this is done with their own TeensyLoader. With the stock Atmel or open source LUFA bootloader there are different programs. I've tried the Linux ones and got that working just fine. I still need to try on Windows, but that should be no problem either.

There are several other keyboard codes written for the Teensy controller. They should all be pretty easily adopted to run on this. The basic idea of a keyboard firmware is:
To do step one the controller needs to know which pins are connected to what in the keyboard matrix, a grid of keys and diodes. All Cherry switch matrices are basically the same. So the big difference between different keyboards is just defining which pins to send probing signals on, and which to scan to read pressed keys. This should be quite straight forward to change since it should be a separate section of the code in a good software design. This should also only need to be done once for each firmware code.

Step three really is where the magic of using a programmable controller comes in. "Ah, so Scroll Lock is pressed. Then I will send these other key presses as numpad keys instead of their usual identities.", or in whatever way you can think of (down to what is possible to do purely programming wise, and that is a lot).

I will load some basic firmware onto the controller before shipping. Probably just something that mimics the original controller.

you think you can get it down to 20$ stuffed/unit?
I want to get one or two.  Is $20 including components or just the PCB?
This is nothing like ordering a mega large keyboard PCB. It is ~ 2.2" x 1.3", they are super cheap =D I still sort of haven't factored in shipping from China, but with these amounts that should divide down to manageable amounts. The ATmega is the only expensive component at ~$6
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:43:13
Hey Bphiphany, I never got an answer in the DT thread, how much memory is available on the teensy for macros and such? After the firmware is loaded, approximately how much is left I guess would be the relevant question. As far as I know, all Cherry programmable ones are limited to about 16 characters.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:51:55
Hey Bphiphany, I never got an answer in the DT thread, how much memory is available on the teensy for macros and such? After the firmware is loaded, approximately how much is left I guess would be the relevant question. As far as I know, all Cherry programmable ones are limited to about 16 characters.
Sorry, didn't catch that =) There is 32kB of flash memory on the chip. The non-Teensy bootloaders take 4kB of that, and then the actual code takes some. The current Phantom code is ~9kB with a single layer. That would leave almost 20kB for other layers and macros, and the actual code to implement the functionality. There is also 1kB of EEPROM memory available for the controller to use. I haven't messed around with the EEPROM myself though. This is the part of the memory that can actually be modified at runtime, the flash memory is only written during flashing the chip. There is also 2.5kB of SRAM for the actual running program to use.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:54:40
Large strings then :)

I suppose if someone makes a more advance debouncing code, or code for layers or other functions that code might take up some considerable space too, but at least there is still a lot of memory left. Nice that it is shared too. Cherry have implemented a restriction on a "per key" basis. You can have 16 characters on every key, but if you only have one key with a macro it won't go above 16 characters. each switch has its allocated space.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 29 August 2012, 02:05:04
Debouncing is actually not a huge thing =) The Phantom firmware has a proper algorithm for it already. (As well as other codes written by competent people like HaSu, Soarer, and others I believe...)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 29 August 2012, 02:13:19
I expect that a lot of code will be added in the future as people realize that it can do anything. Are there any unused pins on the teensy, for instance the analogue input that can measure the voltage? One could make all kinds of shenanigan with it. Attach a photo resistor and use the value to adjust the brightness of the LEDs, a potentiometer to adjust the voltage on analogue in and use that value to adjust the brightness, or a thermistor which would be weird etc. I expect the amount of somewhat useless functions to grow a lot in the future when people realize the capabilities and more people start writing their code, especially when people start to receive their parts.
Title: Re: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 29 August 2012, 04:09:28
I expect that a lot of code will be added in the future as people realize that it can do anything. Are there any unused pins on the teensy, for instance the analogue input that can measure the voltage? One could make all kinds of shenanigan with it. Attach a photo resistor and use the value to adjust the brightness of the LEDs, a potentiometer to adjust the voltage on analogue in and use that value to adjust the brightness, or a thermistor which would be weird etc. I expect the amount of somewhat useless functions to grow a lot in the future when people realize the capabilities and more people start writing their code, especially when people start to receive their parts.
not to be a downer but i hoped that would happen with the phantom and it really hasnt the only real progress made was the hacked in layer support.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 29 August 2012, 04:57:01
People haven't really gotten theirs yet, at least not in Europe. The ones who have gotten theirs in the US have barely had any time to get them together. I will surely play around a bit when I get one.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 29 August 2012, 04:59:46
I was hopeing someone would port hazu's firmware as it got everything were looking for and more. Though the only thing i need yet for my layout is media keys and mouse buttons.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 29 August 2012, 05:51:55
I expect that a lot of code will be added in the future as people realize that it can do anything. Are there any unused pins on the teensy, for instance the analogue input that can measure the voltage? One could make all kinds of shenanigan with it. Attach a photo resistor and use the value to adjust the brightness of the LEDs, a potentiometer to adjust the voltage on analogue in and use that value to adjust the brightness, or a thermistor which would be weird etc. I expect the amount of somewhat useless functions to grow a lot in the future when people realize the capabilities and more people start writing their code, especially when people start to receive their parts.

My hope as well is that people will start making their own codes/contributing to existing codes.

It is not a Teensy. There are 2 (3 stretching it) free IO pins on the controller. None of them are connected to an ADC, and they will be tricky to connect to since you would need to solder wires directly to the legs of the chip...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 29 August 2012, 06:09:43
Ah, I am still in phantom-thoughts I guess. It uses a teensy which comes with ADC on one pin from the factory, right?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 29 August 2012, 06:18:31
Ah, I am still in phantom-thoughts I guess. It uses a teensy which comes with ADC on one pin from the factory, right?

The Teensy (ATmega32u4) actually has 12 ADC pins. The Phantom design uses every last pin on the Teensy. The Teensy itself has the HWB pin bound to ground, which is required to enter the bootloader at reset. (I actually set this design up the same way.) That pin works as a regular IO pin though if you would want to hack into it =) This makes entering the bootloader a bit trickier...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Wed, 29 August 2012, 08:35:55
Ok, looks like I'll have to dust off my Filcos.

I'm in for two please.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: litster on Wed, 29 August 2012, 16:55:17
Please up my IC to 4 please :). 
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Appeac on Wed, 29 August 2012, 16:59:11
I would definitely be interested in one.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: N8N on Wed, 29 August 2012, 18:46:38

It is not a Teensy. There are 2 (3 stretching it) free IO pins on the controller. None of them are connected to an ADC, and they will be tricky to connect to since you would need to solder wires directly to the legs of the chip...

Couldn't you connect those pins to traces on the PCB that "go nowhere" but to holes in the PCB?  Or is the design locked in already?  Just a thought...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Wed, 29 August 2012, 20:50:28
Very impressive!
I think this will get very strong demand here in Japan if Filco users in Japan find this thread.

The Teensy itself has the HWB pin bound to ground, which is required to enter the bootloader at reset. (I actually set this design up the same way.) That pin works as a regular IO pin though if you would want to hack into it =) This makes entering the bootloader a bit trickier...

Actually, how does the bootloader come up? By pushing a button on the controller board like Teensy?
Or there is any trick in your custom LUFA bootloader?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: nolliepoper on Wed, 29 August 2012, 22:49:45
I am interested.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 29 August 2012, 23:24:42
Hey, this should also work on a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid (really fast, gogogo, super speed) model.
The mounting pins would need to be identical. And the matrix would need to be very close to identical for it to work at all. If that is not the case there is still the option to build a cruder version, using just a regular Teensy plus some multiplexing component to expand the number of IO lines. It will be more or less exactly the same thing.
Here's a picture of my CMstorm controller.

As you can see, it's pretty similar in size/shape to filco. I still don't know about the matrix, though, I can to look into it (if you want to try to include Cmstorm support)
http://i.imm.io/CxMs.jpeg
http://i.imm.io/CxMx.jpeg
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: litster on Thu, 30 August 2012, 00:05:50
Filco gen2 controller

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 30 August 2012, 02:17:29
Couldn't you connect those pins to traces on the PCB that "go nowhere" but to holes in the PCB?  Or is the design locked in already?  Just a thought...

Well, Personally I don't really see the point =P And I already took advantage of the fact that they aren't connected to the PCB, drawing traces there. It wouldn't be impossible of course, but they are also the ones that were in the more awkward places to start with...

Very impressive!
I think this will get very strong demand here in Japan if Filco users in Japan find this thread.

Actually, how does the bootloader come up? By pushing a button on the controller board like Teensy?
Or there is any trick in your custom LUFA bootloader?

Thanks =) It isn't that very advanced.. Yes, you still need to short the reset pin to gnd somehow to jump to the bootloader hardware style. The reset and gnd pads on the ISP connector are right next to each other though, so that shouldn't be too hard. That of course requires having the case open. A software jump instruction would be good to have included in the software. I have also been thinking about adding the possibility to attach a reed switch. I have done this on some other keyboards using Teensys. It is quite nifty to just pass a magnet over the correct spot on the case =D

Let's not tell the Japanese until I'm outsourcing the soldering to someone else...

Filco gen2 controller

Thanks =)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 30 August 2012, 02:48:06
Here's a picture of my CMstorm controller.

As you can see, it's pretty similar in size/shape to filco. I still don't know about the matrix, though, I can to look into it (if you want to try to include Cmstorm support)
http://i.imm.io/CxMs.jpeg
http://i.imm.io/CxMx.jpeg

That is like a perfect copy of the Filco except they had to go and make the interfacing connectors different. Couldn't they just have made a proper rip-off  =P I think it will be hard to fit the controller between the pins and the other edge of the PCB like I did. Perhaps there can be another CMstorm controller in the future if there is enough interest...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Thu, 30 August 2012, 03:18:12
I'm interested in two of these.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 30 August 2012, 09:49:26
Damn those ODM unique design requirements.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: priyadi on Thu, 30 August 2012, 22:03:53
Interested in one.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: dorkvader on Fri, 31 August 2012, 00:48:07
Here's a picture of my CMstorm controller.

As you can see, it's pretty similar in size/shape to filco. I still don't know about the matrix, though, I can to look into it (if you want to try to include Cmstorm support)
http://i.imm.io/CxMs.jpeg
http://i.imm.io/CxMx.jpeg

That is like a perfect copy of the Filco except they had to go and make the interfacing connectors different. Couldn't they just have made a proper rip-off  =P I think it will be hard to fit the controller between the pins and the other edge of the PCB like I did. Perhaps there can be another CMstorm controller in the future if there is enough interest...
Darn, they got to ruin our fun again! I guess I'll have to just print my own or something. Chalk up another tiny difference.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Tenkey on Fri, 31 August 2012, 01:38:28
Put me down for two of these
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: modulor on Fri, 31 August 2012, 08:14:45
Interested in one
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: harrison on Fri, 31 August 2012, 08:26:09
absolutely in for 1, possibly 2 depending on the price.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Nunez on Sat, 01 September 2012, 04:08:19
In for 2!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 01 September 2012, 04:29:59
I already posted about it on deskthority, but I ran in to a small obstacle when I wired everything up on a breadboard to try it out. The diodes on the main PCB are reversed to what I first thought. This isn't complete disaster or anything, I just need to use pull-down resistor instead of pull-up resistors on the controller input pins. There are built in pull-up resistors, but pull-down resistors I need to add myself. They are very cheap, but it is going to take some extra time soldering all 18 of them =P I also had to go past the electronics store to get some "active high" BCD converters instead of the active low I had at home.

The bottom line is, everything seem to be working fine at the moment. No need to worry =) I also ordered a new tenkeyless to be able to test the design out more porperly. My only tenkeyless is completely de-soldered and a bit flimsy to work with... It's nice to see the big interest, already looking forward to the full week of soldering little resistors... =D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Autolyze on Sat, 01 September 2012, 13:12:45
I'm in for at least two!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: litster on Sat, 01 September 2012, 17:34:30
bpiphany, how much more would it be if we pay for SMD soldering at the factory?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 01 September 2012, 17:52:55
At that price, I may as well.  I love to hack on that kind of stuff.  Put me down.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: cix on Sat, 01 September 2012, 23:12:12
Color me interested
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: DarkShot on Sun, 02 September 2012, 01:32:17
How difficult would it be to program in something like a function layer?

I'm seriously considering getting one of these, even if I don't have a Filco at the moment.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 02 September 2012, 02:10:44
bpiphany, how much more would it be if we pay for SMD soldering at the factory?

I have no idea, and I have no idea on how to do it either really =) I guess you need to specify the orientation of components and probably some other things as well. And I don't know who to ask to start with..

How difficult would it be to program in something like a function layer?

I'm seriously considering getting one of these, even if I don't have a Filco at the moment.

That is quite easy, and there already are firmwares around which are capable of layers. Hasu's tmk_keyboard (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard) does, but I have not looked at that much myself. The ErgoDox firmware (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware) has layers as well, that one I know very little of as well and it is probably not as well tested as Hasu's. If I understood correctly it will be capable of doing all sort of custom stuff. The Phantom firmware (https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/Teensy-Keyboard) does not have layer support as of now, but that I can easily add myself =D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: strider_ani on Sun, 02 September 2012, 11:48:24
Would shipping to Australia be a problem? I'll pay the extra shipping costs.
If not, then put me down for one :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 02 September 2012, 12:56:31
Would shipping to Australia be a problem? I'll pay the extra shipping costs.
If not, then put me down for one :)

From Sweden all non-European destinations are the same price. It may be possible to get them below  $4, the next weight limit is $8 (USD).
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: BossBorot on Sun, 02 September 2012, 17:49:18
in for three
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jcrouse on Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:37:58
In for 2 please.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Djuzuh on Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:47:02
In for 1 !
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tipo33 on Mon, 03 September 2012, 11:03:51
With this new controler,  would we be able to replace one of the switches with an MX Lock?  Or does the Filco PCB prevent this?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 03 September 2012, 11:12:46
What the firmware does is entirely up to you, the only difference in an MXLock is that it has some mechanics that keeps the key pressed for you.  How you make the firmware respond to that is entirely up to you.

The main keyboard PCB is just traces, diodes and switches (and 2 LEDs) in a matrix optimized for the Holtek controller.  The atmega can deal with any matrix layout, not needing modifiers on separate traces to deal with NKRO.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 03 September 2012, 11:13:10
I might just have to get a Filco or 2 just to do this.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tipo33 on Mon, 03 September 2012, 11:17:25
What the firmware does is entirely up to you, the only difference in an MXLock is that it has some mechanics that keeps the key pressed for you.  How you make the firmware respond to that is entirely up to you.

The main keyboard PCB is just traces, diodes and switches (and 2 LEDs) in a matrix optimized for the Holtek controller.  The atmega can deal with any matrix layout, not needing modifiers on separate traces to deal with NKRO.
  Great!  Thank you.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: 4LI4Z on Mon, 03 September 2012, 15:55:39
In for 1 please.
Title: I'm interested.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Tue, 04 September 2012, 02:04:55
Open the keyboard, unplug the old controller from the socket, plug this new one in, close it back up, and THEN play. :P

There is no soldering required?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 04 September 2012, 03:10:57
Open the keyboard, unplug the old controller from the socket, plug this new one in, close it back up, and THEN play. :P

There is no soldering required?

I said I would do the soldering, wasn't counting on quite this many... But no, there will be no soldering unless you really want to =D Let's just say I won't be finishing them in one day.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Tue, 04 September 2012, 04:25:23
Okay. Well if there's no soldering I'm down to buy one. How much?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: modulor on Tue, 04 September 2012, 09:06:35
I might just have to get a Filco or 2 just to do this.

That's my plan :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fruktstund on Tue, 04 September 2012, 09:18:33
I didn't think I was interested until just now, when I happened to realize I'm sick of software remapping my caps lock to control. :)

So, I'm in for one!
I'll also talk to all Filco possessing friends I have and see if they're also interested, even though I doubt they are.  :))
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bnp70kr on Tue, 04 September 2012, 10:37:56
Very intersting.
I'm in for one!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 04 September 2012, 11:37:48
I wanted to sell my filco... but now I'm really tempted to get this board instead. this forum kills my wallet...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: harrison on Tue, 04 September 2012, 13:23:43
if there's an option to do the soldering myself (reduced or not, doesn't matter) i'd be all for it.  i like getting my hands dirty.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Tue, 04 September 2012, 13:30:52
I hate soldering. I always destroy my stuff. :(
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 04 September 2012, 13:49:39
Okay. Well if there's no soldering I'm down to buy one. How much?

I think the $20 price tag is still reasonable (+shipping). I'm sure there will be a few returns or forwards from people not getting it to work properly, and a few odd ones just screwing me over or something. So yes, there is a small safety margin in that price, but I won't be able to afford more than a few hick-ups. I will add your name to the interest list for now.

if there's an option to do the soldering myself (reduced or not, doesn't matter) i'd be all for it.  i like getting my hands dirty.

Good spirit =D I could send you everything un-soldered, surely at a somewhat reduced price (free shipping perhaps). If you do the soldering yourself you also cannot blame me for screwing it up, which I don't mind at all. This is also a safe way to make sure your shipment will be in the first batch *hint, hint*.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Appeac on Tue, 04 September 2012, 14:04:26
Not sure where else to ask this...

I am interested in replicating a hardware version of this software http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/download/
Specifically, when the spacebar is held down, it reveals a second layer under the left hand side which mirrors the right hand keys onto it. This is all fine and dandy, but the method it actually sends a "space" keypress is by timing out. If the space is held for more than 2 seconds or so, it will send the space code. Is this doable on this board?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 04 September 2012, 14:44:33
I believe Hasu's firmware has very similar facility with layer switches also being real key presses under certain circumstances.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Appeac on Tue, 04 September 2012, 14:55:12
I believe Hasu's firmware has very similar facility with layer switches also being real key presses under certain circumstances.

Thanks. I'll look more into it. If not, I'll have to break out the dremel and add another thumb button.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 04 September 2012, 14:57:54
It does, but somewhat differently. Link to source layer.c
 (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/common/layer.c)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: nebo on Tue, 04 September 2012, 15:34:28
Are there already any decent firmwares out that could be linked in this thread? I'm interested but not sure what is already out that I could mess with.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Tue, 04 September 2012, 15:43:03
I'd like to solder everything on myself as well.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 04 September 2012, 16:09:00
Are there already any decent firmwares out that could be linked in this thread? I'm interested but not sure what is already out that I could mess with.

There is Hasu's (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard) code which I haven't really looked at.
The code for the ErgoDox (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware) by ic07 that is also pretty advanced.
And there is the very simple Teensy keyboard (https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/Teensy-Keyboard) code that I have written =)

I'd like to solder everything on myself as well.

Noted =)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Game Theory on Tue, 04 September 2012, 21:09:44
I am in for 1.  (maybe 2)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Tue, 04 September 2012, 22:32:25
Yes, I am interested. :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: DarkShot on Tue, 04 September 2012, 23:38:22
After some thought, I'm down for one!

I don't program though, so it'll be a learning experience to figure out how to get stuff going the way I want!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: daerid on Wed, 05 September 2012, 11:25:04
I'm in for one for sure, and if these are compatible with the Quickfire Rapid, I'm in for 3.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 05 September 2012, 11:43:12
No QF Rapid, they made the connection to the main board 2 double-row headers instead of 2 single row headers.  grrrrr
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: nebo on Wed, 05 September 2012, 12:02:44
Yeah I'm for sure in for one. Could give my board different language layers.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 05 September 2012, 14:17:13
I'm in for one for sure, and if these are compatible with the Quickfire Rapid, I'm in for 3.
No QF Rapid, they made the connection to the main board 2 double-row headers instead of 2 single row headers.  grrrrr
Sorry 'bout that...

Yeah I'm for sure in for one. Could give my board different language layers.
This may not be as easy as you might be thinking, unfortunately =P You are still tied down by the language map the OS is set to. The keyboard has nothing to do with how the OS decides to interpret key presses. If your OS for example is set to a US layout you will have a hard time getting for example Ωn and the such. Those were actually all available in my Swedish layout. So if you can find one where all characters you are interested are at least hidden away on some layer already you could probably get it to work. Hacking your own layout on the OS side may be an easier way in this case. Or a combo of a custom language layout and a programmable controller of course ;D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: nebo on Wed, 05 September 2012, 14:21:12
Yeah I'm for sure in for one. Could give my board different language layers.
This may not be as easy as you might be thinking, unfortunately =P You are still tied down by the language map the OS is set to. The keyboard has nothing to do with how the OS decides to interpret key presses. If your OS for example is set to a US layout you will have a hard time getting for example Ωn and the such. Those were actually all available in my Swedish layout. So if you can find one where all characters you are interested are at least hidden away on some layer already you could probably get it to work. Hacking your own layout on the OS side may be an easier way in this case. Or a combo of a custom language layout and a programmable controller of course ;D
Meh, I program for a living and though I've never done keyboard firmware I don't think it'll be that hard. Make two layouts and put them on separate layers. Have a keypress like shift+menu swap the layout. I mean, Korean keyboards have that by default, shouldn't be that hard.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 05 September 2012, 14:23:14
Macro keys that send alt codes?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 05 September 2012, 14:29:58
Meh, I program for a living and though I've never done keyboard firmware I don't think it'll be that hard. Make two layouts and put them on separate layers. Have a keypress like shift+menu swap the layout. I mean, Korean keyboards have that by default, shouldn't be that hard.

=D You sure have a good start having programming skills. All I am saying is that pure key remapping is a lot more powerful on the OS side. I kinda sorta know how to create custom layout charts in Ubuntu. It's excessively messy =P I have no idea about Windows or OSX.

The controller is in some regards better off for creating macros I think. This can of course also be done with AutoHotkey and the likes. I never used any of those though.

If you can somehow send a macro from the keyboard to change layout on the OS side that would probably be a possible way of solving the problem even without adding any extra layers on the keyboard.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 05 September 2012, 21:44:25
Macro keys that send alt codes?
Alt codes are for windows users :p
---
Bpiphany: Have you thought about a CMstorm GB after this one? I can get some good measurements to see if that chip will fit with that extra row of pins. There are some other options of course.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: nebo on Thu, 06 September 2012, 16:01:34
Macro keys that send alt codes?
Easier just to send 0xf2 scancode. I don't ever use the menu key, I'll just map that to it.

EDIT - I guess Windows is capable of doing that with the default keyboard language as Korean and using the right alt key. Guess I have to hunt down an alt sized keycap with 한/영 on it instead. :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 06 September 2012, 17:13:19
Bpiphany: Have you thought about a CMstorm GB after this one? I can get some good measurements to see if that chip will fit with that extra row of pins. There are some other options of course.

It's probably the same size, exact same controller, same row/column setup, same everything, just the header pins a bit different.. A standard spacing though.

The problem is that it is already a bit tight to fit the ATmega32u4 chip anywhere on the daughter board. That extra row of pins is going to make matters worse. And I don't own a CMstorm to test anything out on...


The news for today is that I got both a brand spanking new tenkeyless in good working condition to test the controllers on. And I received a shipment from DigiKey with 25 sets of ATmegas and multiplexers, as well as resistors and capacitors in huge amounts. Full rolls of 0603-components are not that expensive... $7.50 for 5000 resistors. There is just no way I am going to use up the 22Ω ones during my lifetime =D 10kΩ probably goes a bit quicker.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:26:58
I think its safe to say that interest exceeded your expectations.  Is there any chance of a price break?

Also, those SMD leads are awfully small.  How on earth do you guys plan on soldering those by hand?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:38:57
It's actually not that hard.  I did it after watching 2 vids on youtube  :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: DarkShot on Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:45:20
It's actually not that hard.  I did it after watching 2 vids on youtube  :)

This.

Once you know how to do it and also have the proper equipment it's a cakewalk.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:54:22
You must have steadier hands than me.  I've made a mess of leads larger than that plenty of times.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:56:51
Proper tools is all you need... you should not be holding your arms up when soldering.  The heel of your hand should be resting on something while you work the solder and iron just like a pencil.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Fri, 07 September 2012, 00:04:30
I've never had great penmanship. That's why I like keyboards! Seriously though, people think my handwriting is that of a child's (typically age 5). My soldering iron is big and fat and I do hold it up, probably why I always wreck things. Also, my hands quiver when I concentrate. When I make a cup of coffee, half usually ends up on the floor by the time I get to the couch. It's sad. :'(
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 September 2012, 00:25:58
Hmmm, I don't drink caffeine but my penmanship is non-existent.  People ask me if I'm a doctor when I sign for credit payments.  A big soldering iron can make things difficult.  At the very least try resting your forearms or elbows.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Fri, 07 September 2012, 00:33:29
What model of soldering iron do you use? Mine's actually a 6-in-1 gas torch, apparently. Dremel 2000 VersaTip Gas Torch. Mostly I use it for melting things, haha.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 September 2012, 00:39:31
JFC... I have a Weller WLC100 that I am pondering replacing with something a bit more modern.  The Weller has issues retaining the tip and is a little slow to heat and the temp adjustment is brain-dead.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 07 September 2012, 01:43:53
I think its safe to say that interest exceeded your expectations.  Is there any chance of a price break?
I was counting a bit low to start with, but yes parts will be a bit cheaper in these amounts. No one has actually paid yet though, and it remains to be seen how many comes through on that part. I will probably order ~100 PCBs. They are one of the more expensive parts of this build. I got all the tiny bits in huge amounts by now, and I think I will order the larger components for 25 units at a time. That way I can build and ship completed units spreading the spending and receiving of money a bit =)

Solder ten or even twenty units I would probably have done just for the fun of it. But I think the appeal is going to be pretty much gone by the eightieth one =P Also I didn't know about all the pull-down resistors when I got myself into this... Pretty much doubled the components.

I was planning on using left over cardboard and a bunch of tape for packaging. That would have worked for twenty units perhaps. Now I have already ordered bubble mailers, address stickers, anti-static bags and such. They are not expensive either, but all small stuff adds up. Solder and flux, and the list goes on. Counting my time, I'm going to work below minimum wage for sure. I don't mind doing the fun part for free. (The fun part is going to turn a chore after a while though.)

I already promised a reduced price for un-soldered units, so you may consider that ;)

Also, those SMD leads are awfully small.  How on earth do you guys plan on soldering those by hand?
The 0603 footprint, or 1208 in "metric" is just that 1.2x0.8 mm. They are the hardest part. Not so much because of they are hard soldering, more because they disappear if you look away for a second =P The TQFP package is 0.8 mm pitch, and that is wide and nice to solder. The SOIC is 1.27 mm pitch and just a breeze =D It takes some care lining them up but after that it is quick to hit all the pads.

As other people have said already. It's all about equipment, hand support, and patience. And flux, flux is your friend =) I also need to figure out a good way to clean all the boards afterwards. Perhaps my mom has some nice ultrasonic cleaner at work...

JFC... I have a Weller WLC100 that I am pondering replacing with something a bit more modern.  The Weller has issues retaining the tip and is a little slow to heat and the temp adjustment is brain-dead.
I was considering this unit when I bought my soldering station. I looks spiffy =)
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apex-Tool-Group-Formerly-Cooper-Tools/WSM1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt%252biMJH3c40u4FNIuihPETkmwHJ24%252bzVfc%3d
It is a little cheaper than the one I finally got (this station but the WMRP pen)
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apex-Tool-Group-Formerly-Cooper-Tools/WD1001/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt%252biMJH3c40u3QdK2QEJSNOCMFkybXQJ00%3d
But I got that on a discount. I could probably have gotten their newer model for almost the same price if I had bothered to fix the 120/240V mains problem. Not sure I wanted to go there though..
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apex-Tool-Group-Formerly-Cooper-Tools/WX1012/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt%252biMJH3c40u4FNIuihPETklmKNJCCLGU0%3d

I really like my station. The cord is very thin and flexible, and the tips are extremely fast to swap. I have the 1.2 mm chisel tip it came with, and got a 0.8 mm and a 2 mm chisel tip extra to have a good span of tip widths.




Yesterday I added the software routine for jumping to the bootloader as well. That was pretty easy actually =) I bricked a chip in the process though =P I think it may actually be salvaged with the correct programmer. I set some fuses to an undefined state... Never copy paste from the Internet x_x

I also tried out the Windows FLIP bootloading tool from Atmel. It worked pretty smooth after I finally managed to install it properly.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Fri, 07 September 2012, 05:14:40
Where's the link to pay?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 07 September 2012, 06:35:56
Where's the link to pay?

its not up yet
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 07 September 2012, 06:46:00
Tada, I'm typing on the new Tenkeyless I picked up at the post office yesterday. The controller socket is hooked up through wires to a breadboard sitting next to it =D Unfortunately I don't have a camera here, but it looks a bit funky. I haven't hooked up the LEDs yet, just a few more minutes I hope...

I will start gathering money at the pace I finish mounting components. I will probably PM each and everyone asking to mail me a order confirmation and address info and so on. A mail conversation will be a lot easier to follow.


Edit: The controller in this new Filco is actually marked "FKB 87888991 DB V4.0". It seems identical though, both in function, components and visible traces. The old controller works equally well plugged into the new motherboard. And the motherboards both have the same "CST-F87/88/89/91-MB V1.1" marking

Edit: Both LEDs are working just fine =D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 September 2012, 11:25:38
Given CM's recent change to not slathering logos all over their boards I foresee an increased interest in getting this same treatment for the QF Rapid.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: oneproduct on Fri, 07 September 2012, 12:41:17
I would be interested in one.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Feints on Sat, 08 September 2012, 13:33:09
I'm interested but since I'm new to this fourm and don't really understand how these group buys work, can you explain to me how the ordering goes?

How do we send our money I mean.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 08 September 2012, 13:57:30
I will order components and build a number at a time. When I have completed units to sell I will ask for money. Building them all is going to take a while. Paypal is probably the most reasonable payment option for non-EU citizens. I think there are no transaction fees for inter-EU bank transactions, but I am not completely sure. Paypal transaction fees are ~3-5% depending on which country you send me money from, plus $0.30. I'll add you to the interest list.

I'm going to order the PCBs on Monday. They will take ~14 days to arrive here and then I will start soldering, programming, and testing...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Feints on Sat, 08 September 2012, 14:01:02
Okay, sounds great, thanks for the information!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 08 September 2012, 20:43:54
I will order components and build a number at a time. When I have completed units to sell I will ask for money. Building them all is going to take a while. Paypal is probably the most reasonable payment option for non-EU citizens. I think there are no transaction fees for inter-EU bank transactions, but I am not completely sure. Paypal transaction fees are ~3-5% depending on which country you send me money from, plus $0.30. I'll add you to the interest list.

I'm going to order the PCBs on Monday. They will take ~14 days to arrive here and then I will start soldering, programming, and testing...
So, you are not only designing and making these yourself, you are also testing them before sending them out, and you're not asking for a dime until they're ready, and not only that, but you're charging a really inexpensive rate?

You, sir, are a hero of altruism.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 08 September 2012, 20:44:49
I'd swing by and spring for dinner some time but that's a hell of a trip  ;)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 09 September 2012, 03:27:34
You are very kind guys =) I think the testing is going to be very quick. I'll just pop the new controller into a board, use that Aqua KeyTest, see that all keys register. Probably do some quick jabbing to see if any seem to behave strange. Soldering is going to be the time consuming part. There is a small margin to keep me out of trouble, but I'm working very cheap =D Even if I just took off with the potential 100 x $20 that would be a pretty lousy salary...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 09 September 2012, 17:47:01
You are very kind guys =) I think the testing is going to be very quick. I'll just pop the new controller into a board, use that Aqua KeyTest, see that all keys register. Probably do some quick jabbing to see if any seem to behave strange. Soldering is going to be the time consuming part. There is a small margin to keep me out of trouble, but I'm working very cheap =D Even if I just took off with the potential 100 x $20 that would be a pretty lousy salary...

Good show.  When my invoice comes, I will include a tip to the craftsman.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: DarkShot on Sun, 09 September 2012, 19:12:45
To be fair I'm sure a good handful of people would be willing to pay a little more for your hard work. An extra $5 to the total for those of which you put together can go a long way.

Would anyone else have any objections to paying that extra $5 for his hard work?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Sun, 09 September 2012, 19:35:31
To be fair I'm sure a good handful of people would be willing to pay a little more for your hard work. An extra $5 to the total for those of which you put together can go a long way.

Would anyone else have any objections to paying that extra $5 for his hard work?
I concur.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tipo33 on Sun, 09 September 2012, 21:39:02
No problem paying a bit extra.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 10 September 2012, 00:50:16
Id include a fiver for hin sice has doing all the work.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Saviant on Mon, 10 September 2012, 04:05:15
I would be willing to add another 5 for the effort aswell.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Mon, 10 September 2012, 04:11:17
I would have no problem paying something extra for the work. I think $5 still is pretty low, but it sounds like something almost everybody would pay. I am also sure people can "tip" something extra for the work on an individual basis too if they feel so inclined :) . I know I will be doing that.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 10 September 2012, 08:47:31
I could setup a Paypal donate account I guess, or simply let people choose how much to pay.. Anyway, here is the picture I would have uploaded if I had my camera last time around. I didn't have it now either, hence the crappy iPad photo (ok, low light didn't help).

Easy as pie =)
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Mon, 10 September 2012, 14:29:30
I've heard of PayPal freezing accounts (i.e.stealing people's money) when they use the phrase donate. They claim the term donate should only be associated with non-profits/charities. Just a heads-up. They recommended using a phrase like "buy me beer" and other such nonsense.

Anyway, depending on shipping cost I'm thinking people will be willing to go an extra $5 to $15.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fruktstund on Mon, 10 September 2012, 14:42:13
I'll give you enough money to buy a 500g package of Lindvalls kaffe, bpiphany. :P

And that's one nice looking build!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 11 September 2012, 00:39:46
Think we could give this project a better less technical name? Possibly something that i could stick on a spacebar? A logo might be a good adition as well.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 11 September 2012, 00:43:12
You can up my order to two for sure and maybe three


If not, one is fine too :D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 11 September 2012, 00:46:52
That reminds me just paid for my Filcos tonight so ill be needing 2 of those now. Im already working on a custom layout and its turning out a bit wacy since im sticking to a standard TKL layout.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 11 September 2012, 01:29:00
I'm usually not very good at coming up with names. But, too much?..
[attachimg=1]

There will probably be enough spares to make you happy, I didn't order the PCBs yet, so I'm a day behind.. But I am going to do it today. I was finishing up another project I thought I would order at the same time.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 11 September 2012, 01:39:34
Looks great to me. I wonder what i should put on my spacebar though?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Tue, 11 September 2012, 02:42:06
You don't have to open a separate PayPal account to deal with "donations". Just up your price by $5, and then the ones that want to pay you more will just add the amount they want to add to the final payment :) . That's what I will be doing anyway.


HID Liberation Device :)).
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Icarium on Tue, 11 September 2012, 02:47:10
haha
okay now I want one
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: mickd on Tue, 11 September 2012, 03:53:15
I might just have to up my interest check to 2 units too!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 11 September 2012, 10:29:07
Just sent the PCB files off to pcbwing. They are usually back quickly to ask what the hell I am up to =D Might be night there at the moment of course...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tipo33 on Tue, 11 September 2012, 10:36:19
I might just have to up my interest check to 2 units too!
Ditto.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bnp70kr on Wed, 12 September 2012, 08:07:31
bp, I'd like to get one more.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: voightkampffme on Wed, 12 September 2012, 09:17:59
Two please
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: longweight on Wed, 12 September 2012, 09:19:58
You are very kind guys =) I think the testing is going to be very quick. I'll just pop the new controller into a board, use that Aqua KeyTest, see that all keys register. Probably do some quick jabbing to see if any seem to behave strange. Soldering is going to be the time consuming part. There is a small margin to keep me out of trouble, but I'm working very cheap =D Even if I just took off with the potential 100 x $20 that would be a pretty lousy salary...

Up the price man :) I want this to be worth your time and effort!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 13 September 2012, 23:39:03
Could you please do one of these for the CM Storm Quickfire Raid. I just bought 2 as I couldnt pass up the 30% off they had on their site now that the new ones have almost no branding.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 13 September 2012, 23:41:13
If it's not surface mount, I could solder it myself
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 13 September 2012, 23:42:51
If it's not surface mount, I could solder it myself
I think these almost have to be surface-mount.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 13 September 2012, 23:43:43
I kinda figured. I think my friend has a solder reflow thingy but I'm not 100%
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 13 September 2012, 23:52:44
I would be interested in learning SMD but I dont think I have the proper tools at the moment or the money to get them.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 14 September 2012, 06:09:09
All but the header pins are SMD. It's not a lot harder to do SMD really, disregarding the tiny size of some parts. And you don't need to cut a bunch of leads afterwards. These components are all leaded and reasonable easy to solder by hand, no need for reflowing. The resistor and capacitors are harder than the multi-leaded tight pitch chips since they are really small and hard to just get a hold of even with good tweezers...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 14 September 2012, 06:10:24
And also, the files have passed the design rules check, and have been sent on to the production stage. The PCBs should be with me in two weeks or so.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 14 September 2012, 08:47:45
I think that if you make a CM Storm you would get enough orders that you could tack on buying the keyboard since you dont have one onto the price and it wouldnt increase very much due to the amount demanded.
Title: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: n00bca3k on Fri, 14 September 2012, 17:04:42
I think that if you make a CM Storm you would get enough orders that you could tack on buying the keyboard since you dont have one onto the price and it wouldnt increase very much due to the amount demanded.

Please do this! The CM Storm is an amazing keyboard for its price. Way more satisfied with it over my das and poker with custom case. Id love for the ability to have a custom function layer, the keyboard could last me the rest of my days.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 14 September 2012, 21:30:49
I did finish my custom layout for when i get the kcustom controller for my Filco's but photobucket itsnt letting me upload to my account so ill have to post it another time.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: ChaoticKinesis on Fri, 14 September 2012, 22:12:39
Not sure if it's too late but I would be interested in 2.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 14 September 2012, 23:21:30
Looks like it's too late, I'm interested too in 1 though.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 14 September 2012, 23:47:54
Looks like im going to need 1 more of these but i may have to wait till the second round i guess...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 15 September 2012, 08:55:21
I will keep adding names to the list. I ordered a lot of extra PCBs so that quota won't be filled too easily =) For the ones who are already on the list I will simply up the amount, for practical reasons. I will work through the list more or less in order when building units. Asking for email, contact info, money and so on.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: anthropornis on Sat, 15 September 2012, 10:10:02
I too am interested in one. This is just what I need.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 15 September 2012, 10:12:40
Edit: Misread, 2 weeks until the pcbs arrive, gotcha.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 15 September 2012, 16:08:41
Got my photobucket account fixed, so here is my perspective layout for my Filcos


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/FilcoTKLLayerDefaultTEMP2.png)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/FilcoTKLLayer1TEMP2.png)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: oneproduct on Sun, 16 September 2012, 12:45:38
Why have the function layer arrow keys away from the right hand's home position? JKL, with I above it for your inverted T.

You'd just need to shift that whole right side two keys to the left, then you wouldn't have to move your right hand over every time you wanted to use the arrow keys. Seems to make a lot more sense to me.

Ah... Okay, I didn't notice the right side Fn key. I assume you have the right side of the Fn layer there so you can use the arrows with one hand, but I find it pretty hard hold down the right Fn position with my pinky and use those arrow keys. Personally I think just using the Fn button opposite the side of the Fn layer you want to use and then having the Fn layer optimized for that is a bit cooler.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 16 September 2012, 16:55:12
Why have the function layer arrow keys away from the right hand's home position? JKL, with I above it for your inverted T.

You'd just need to shift that whole right side two keys to the left, then you wouldn't have to move your right hand over every time you wanted to use the arrow keys. Seems to make a lot more sense to me.

Ah... Okay, I didn't notice the right side Fn key. I assume you have the right side of the Fn layer there so you can use the arrows with one hand, but I find it pretty hard hold down the right Fn position with my pinky and use those arrow keys. Personally I think just using the Fn button opposite the side of the Fn layer you want to use and then having the Fn layer optimized for that is a bit cooler.
I admit that its not perfect, it is still; a work in progress. I based it off of my Phantom layout which has a few more keys that make it much more effective. The Phantom layout is below.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/7bitCustom4LayerDefaultWASDTEMP2-1.png)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/7bitCustom4Layer1WASDTEMP2-1.png)


That would probably be a great idea for standard typers but i sadly am not one of those. I dont know how to explain how I type but it is by no means the standard or correct way.

Yes, I did want to use the right ctrl key for Fn but after trying it for a bit I agree with you its too far away. I am thinking of switching it with Right Alt as that seems very comfortable as is just about where you r thumb would be naturally when you have your fingers on the arrow keys.

Im surprised that you didnt say anything about the improvised number pad where the home/system cluster used to be. It may look a bit odd but its not that bad to use and I think after using it more it would become natural.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gizzard on Sun, 16 September 2012, 23:57:17
Interested in 1... Even though I have no idea what I'm going to do with it. Lol
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Appeac on Mon, 17 September 2012, 00:26:37
Well I just sold my Filco today because I got an offer I couldn't pass up. I'm still in for one, but I'll back up the call for a CM Rapid alternative now.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Wildcard on Mon, 17 September 2012, 13:51:11
I didn't want to pass this up. Put me down for 4 if you have room :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Tue, 18 September 2012, 23:51:12
Is it too late to jump in on this? It sounds as if it will be a recurring 25-count batch order sort of deal, but I'm wondering if there are extras unaccounted for from rounding up to the nearest 25? If possible, I'd like one!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 19 September 2012, 04:41:02
The limiting factor is the PCBs really. I ordered a bunch extra so we are far from there yet. I won't be ordering components for all at the same time though. That would be a lot of money, and I want to start off with a few to see how everything works out. If I get them to work, if other people get them to work, how many are going to drop out, how much hassle other people are going to give me and so on. I will of course add the overshoot to the last batch of components. They don't need to be in multiples of 25, it's more like a minimum to achieve free shipping from the suppliers, as well as a good price break on many of the components.

But I am adding your name to the list for now =)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Tue, 25 September 2012, 11:42:02
I'm not terribly familiar with Filco boards, but for the purposes of getting in on this programmability I'm going to learn--however, after reading through I'm not 100% sure on which boards will apply to this modification. Before I buy one, I want to make sure that the one I get will work for this.

With that said, I'm looking at a Filco Majestouch-2 TKL (specifically, this (http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Tenkeyless-FKBN87MRL-EB2/dp/B007VAFWM8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348590911&sr=8-1&keywords=filco+tenkeyless+red)). Will this be ok?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 25 September 2012, 11:45:41
That'll do it.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 29 September 2012, 14:37:28
Gotta pull out interest since I lost my Filco... trying to get a replacement though so put me on a maybe list?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 29 September 2012, 21:32:24
lol how do you just "lose" something big like a keyboard?

bpiphany, please post a status update before you start soldering. I'd like to solder my own if possible. Less work for you :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 29 September 2012, 22:04:58
lol how do you just "lose" something big like a keyboard?

bpiphany, please post a status update before you start soldering. I'd like to solder my own if possible. Less work for you :)

Blame USPS
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 30 September 2012, 10:42:07
I'm going to do the this quick so here is a link to DT where I posted the latest news http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/filco-tenkeyless-custom-atmega32u4-controller-t3789-30.html#p77749

Today I soldered the 20 resistors on the back onto the next 24 controllers. The front is a bit more mixed but with only 16 components. So I should have the first batch of 25 ready soon.

For you guys wanting to do the soldering yourselves. Don't worry. I've got PCBs and components to go around =)

Now I need to run of to my real job...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 30 September 2012, 11:49:08
I got a new Filco, interest +1 again lol
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Sun, 30 September 2012, 14:08:59
So is it too late to get in on this?

Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 01 October 2012, 11:32:19
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Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 01 October 2012, 15:06:28
Cant wait to get one of these.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 01 October 2012, 16:50:44
Me too :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 02 October 2012, 03:29:37
There should still be plenty of PCBs for extra orders. Components I can order more along the way. Actually not that easy right at this moment since both mouser and digikey are out of the microcontrollers... I still haven't received the header pins I ordered off ebay yet. I may order some from digikey instead. I also forgot to order the reed switches last time. So I still need to put another order for those...

harrison and WhiteFireDragon have shown interest in doing the soldering themselves. Anyone else? Orders for the people wanting to do the soldering will be sent out first(ish).

I must warn you though that these parts are pretty darn small. I recommend you to only attempt it if you have a decently small chisel shaped soldering iron tip and really thin solder. I use 0.3mm solder, 0.015" (0.4mm) seem to be commonly available as well. And the crystals are a bit tricky to solder as well. They are not really intended for hand soldering =P
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Tue, 02 October 2012, 04:16:07
What is considered "decently small?" Is this 2.4mm tip (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ORB8J2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004ORB8J2&linkCode=as2&tag=keyboard08-20) small enough or should I buy another 1.6mm tip (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004OR9BV4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004OR9BV4&linkCode=as2&tag=tag-02-20)? And right now I have Kester 44 solder 63/37 in size 0.020", which is a little thicker than your recommended 0.015", but hopefully it's fine enough to get the job done.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 02 October 2012, 06:27:23
The tip I've been using pretty much all over is this 1.3mm (http://www.weller.de/products/product.php?pid=571) one. I also use my larger 2.2mm (http://www.weller.de/products/product.php?pid=576) one for the header pins, but that one is huge =D You would probably do fine with a 1.6mm one. Your solder should be good as well I think. It's just easier to add the correct amount with thinner solder. I use a roll of 0.7mm for the pins, and they don't take a whole lot of that.

Oh, and also, I just finished off another 4 boards just now. All working fine =)
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 02 October 2012, 09:01:52
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Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 02 October 2012, 09:20:57
You just did.
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 02 October 2012, 09:22:30
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Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Tue, 02 October 2012, 13:32:59
Show Image
(http://i.qkme.me/35cbi6.jpg)


lol


Well add me to that list too.  My Filco should be here today, for ~$20 why not?

Besides mapping each key individually, what are some other cool things that can be done with this programmable controller?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 02 October 2012, 13:50:12
Sky's the limit if you can code.  Layers, macros, silly tricks with 2 LEDs.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Tue, 02 October 2012, 13:59:03
Sky's the limit if you can code.  Layers, macros, silly tricks with 2 LEDs.

Quite interesting.  Suppose it's time to learn lol. 
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 02 October 2012, 14:00:10
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Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Tue, 02 October 2012, 15:03:53
Just got my mj2 tkl today!

(http://i.imgur.com/p3axI.jpg)

Now I'm seriously excited for this thing.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 02 October 2012, 15:47:30
There's already firmware that works for basic keyboarding for this controller.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: nullstring on Tue, 02 October 2012, 16:25:02
Are there measurements anywhere? I'd like to know the exact dimensions of the PCB.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 02 October 2012, 19:45:16
Are there measurements anywhere? I'd like to know the exact dimensions of the PCB.

Can't you open your Filco and take measurements from its controller daughterboard? They should be the same. Or are you asking for compatibility for some other keyboard? We know they won't work with the QFR, due to the header pins.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 03 October 2012, 01:07:22
Cant wait for mine. I need 3 in the end wouldnt mind just one right away though.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 03 October 2012, 09:12:24
I need one for sure, possibly 2.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Wed, 03 October 2012, 14:19:17
How is the QFR controller attached?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 03 October 2012, 14:22:49
parallel pin headers,   a pair of 2x??  but otherwise very much like the Filco.  Just enough different to be incompatible.


found pic...
(http://i.imgur.com/9N262.jpg)

This is from OCN, so the drinking straw and random spooge around the switch and a missing switch are totally expected.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Wed, 03 October 2012, 14:40:14
I would assume that we could make it work. I think that it would just require some handiwork and wires sticking in the board instead of removable. I might be in for one since a QFR could work. Depends upon the price point.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 03 October 2012, 15:13:30
o you know someone could be cool and just design a custom controller for it.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 03 October 2012, 16:05:59
Is there anyone else on this forum that knows how to program controllers besides bpiphany? It wouldn't be fair to ask him to make custom controllers for every different board. That's just too much work for one person, while the rest of the forum benefits. hashbaz, since you're a programmer, would you know how to reprogram these controllers as well?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 03 October 2012, 16:07:17
I'd be up for a CM Storm one as well. Maybe.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 03 October 2012, 16:08:51
bpiphany's firmware from the phantom is easy enough to configure for future controllers using the same chipset.  It's a matter of plugging in the row/column connection layout to the different pins of the controller.  bp has already done this for the Filco replacement controller.  Since it's up to the creator of the controller to assign the pins and since the creator will likely need to test their creation... it's pretty much their job by default.

bp has already said that if you want something more advanced than his, then take his and hack away... I understand that he'll accept patches too.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Wed, 03 October 2012, 16:33:07
I am working on an AIKON. Then all we would need to do is solder in the AIKON as a daughter board into a socket designed for that keyboard, if that makes sense. I'll hop on my desktop and draw something up quick in a bit...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 03 October 2012, 18:38:11
Latest updates


I hope to throw some soldering in there somewhere to lighten up the cleaning a bit.

For future controller projects I think it would be good to move to the QFN package  AT90USB??? chips. They have enough IO-pins to cater for any (I really hope) keyboard matrix. They would require me (or someone) to get some re-flow soldering skills developed. They may be possible to solder by hand, but that is going to be dodgy at the best.

Designing a controller for a board really comes down to
There isn't much more to it =) The reason I did the Filco tenkeyless is not because I am particularly interested in it myself. I really need a numpad myself.. But the interest for the tenkeyless would be bigger, and there was room to fit the TQFP ATmega32u4 onto there. I would guess there may be many boards that would be interesting to make replacement controllers for. Perhaps some old but common non-USB boards as well.

Today I ordered a macro lens for my camera. Hopefully I will be able to make a video of me soldering a board to give an idea of how hard/easy it is. Never really did film anything before, or did any video editing. So that may get interesting...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Wed, 03 October 2012, 19:36:42
I think the AIKON is a TQFP and it is possible to support a very large matrix... I don't recall the specifics at the moment. I know it isn't that hard.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 03 October 2012, 22:05:30
parallel pin headers,   a pair of 2x??  but otherwise very much like the Filco.  Just enough different to be incompatible.


found pic...

This is from OCN, so the drinking straw and random spooge around the switch and a missing switch are totally expected.

Guys: I got you covered in the CMstorm QFR Pictures Department.

(http://i.imm.io/GCkH.jpeg)
http://i.imm.io/GCkH.jpeg (1600*1200)

But yep: It's got a double row.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 03 October 2012, 22:10:03
LOL. You people and your QFR's. Y U NO BUY REAL THING? Step up, son. Get yourself a Filco and welcome to the adult table. I have 5 Filco's.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 03 October 2012, 22:14:05
I have a QFR and 2 Filcos... not really that much different apart from the funk rubber coating.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Wed, 03 October 2012, 23:26:46
LOL. You people and your QFR's. Y U NO BUY REAL THING? Step up, son. Get yourself a Filco and welcome to the adult table. I have 5 Filco's.

 :))

What do I do to get the space bar on my Filco to stop sounding weird and hollow?  I suppose it sounds better than the higher pitched hollow ping of my Ducky, but I don't know if I like it yet. 

O-Rings fix this?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 04 October 2012, 01:40:08
The Aikon is an ATmega32? It sure has a lot of IO-pins (32), but it isn't listed as USB capable. Apparently they got the Aikon to work somehow, but is the Aikon firmware open? There are at least half a dozen people working on derivatives of the PJRC keyboard example.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 04 October 2012, 08:06:49
No, the Aikon firmware is not open.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 04 October 2012, 08:19:52
Looking at some other USB capable thingies using the ATmega32 it looks like 2 of the generic IO-pins are used for the USB communications. The matrices on the Filco boards are 8x18 IO-pins and 3 LEDs, so that is only 29 pins wich would still fit of course. The AT90USB1286 for example has 48 IO-pins on top of the USB communication. The QFN64 package is the same physical size as the TQFP44 packages (minus the legs even), but the solder pads are tiny =P
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gizzard on Thu, 04 October 2012, 23:11:01
Just got two filcos.  Put me down for 1 more (bringing me to two)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: phetto on Sat, 06 October 2012, 00:28:21
Still taking orders? Saw that they were cheap so i might aswell get one :]
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 06 October 2012, 04:55:22
Party day, but I had time to do this in the morning

Starting at the top
[attach=1]
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Sat, 06 October 2012, 12:15:52
What type of picture is that?

Awesome! How long does it take you to build a single controller?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 06 October 2012, 15:16:30
Looks like he scanned it... dunno how he got the grey background tho.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 06 October 2012, 16:33:51
I th8ink yiou get that grey color when the flatbed scanner isnt fully closed.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 06 October 2012, 17:06:18
I th8ink yiou get that grey color when the flatbed scanner isnt fully closed.

Spot on =) With my dark hood (just a wooden box painted matte black on the inside) over the top some black details didn't show up against "empty space"...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 06 October 2012, 19:57:45
I should try that on my scanner... last time I got pure black, diff. scanner tho.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: litster on Sat, 06 October 2012, 21:14:50
No, the Aikon firmware is not open.
I am working on an AIKON. Then all we would need to do is solder in the AIKON as a daughter board into a socket designed for that keyboard, if that makes sense. I'll hop on my desktop and draw something up quick in a bit...

Also, to flash firmware to Aikon, it requires installing some USB driver/library on 32-bit Windows (doesn't work on 64-bit Windows).  Luckily I still have one old machine running 32-bit Windows 7.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: litster on Sat, 06 October 2012, 21:15:55
I think this video will be helpful if you haven't opened up a Filco before.


bpiphany, might want to add it to first post ;D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Sun, 07 October 2012, 00:43:12
Also, to flash firmware to Aikon, it requires installing some USB driver/library on 32-bit Windows (doesn't work on 64-bit Windows).  Luckily I still have one old machine running 32-bit Windows 7.

Boo, I'll have to bust out an old machine or something. 

Thanks for the video, didn't expect the tabs so that's nice to know. 
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 07 October 2012, 02:03:27
Also, to flash firmware to Aikon, it requires installing some USB driver/library on 32-bit Windows (doesn't work on 64-bit Windows).  Luckily I still have one old machine running 32-bit Windows 7.

Boo, I'll have to bust out an old machine or something. 

Thanks for the video, didn't expect the tabs so that's nice to know. 

I thought my leading questions were clear enough. Don't use the AIKON ;)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: phetto on Sun, 07 October 2012, 02:10:08
I want one for my upcoming "project". Hope im not to late bpiphany?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Sun, 07 October 2012, 19:39:42
I thought my leading questions were clear enough. Don't use the AIKON ;)
Well what about just using Linux instead?  Much easier to get a Linux distro up vs 32bit windows lol. 
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 07 October 2012, 20:49:55
Also, to flash firmware to Aikon, it requires installing some USB driver/library on 32-bit Windows (doesn't work on 64-bit Windows).  Luckily I still have one old machine running 32-bit Windows 7.

Well what about just using Linux instead?  Much easier to get a Linux distro up vs 32bit windows lol. 

It's not that the KB needs a 32bit host... it's that the driver to talk to it with the programming software requires 32bit Windows.  Which Linux is not.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Sun, 07 October 2012, 22:46:50
It's not that the KB needs a 32bit host... it's that the driver to talk to it with the programming software requires 32bit Windows.  Which Linux is not.

Ah. Well then, I suppose it's not really that big an issue but I'll figure that out when the time comes. 
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 08 October 2012, 02:32:21
Any one sane uses open software, whether it is their OS or keyboard firmware. Prevents you from being screwed over in the future. So let's just agree to use the open source tools that are available, none of this AIKON thing...


And by the way, I finished the 25th controller yesterday. Or as far as I can anyway, I still don't have header pins or reed switches. But they are quick to mount when I get them. I should be placing an order today.

I also ran into some problem with the ATmega32u4RC (the chip factory set to run on the internal 8MHz source). I only mounted one, but I couldn't get that to work. I may possibly have botched it up somehow, but that would be rather a coincidence. All other 24 seem to work fine. I have to investigate this further today.. I was hoping it would be easy to just reprogram the fuses with a serial programmer to use an external 16MHz oscillator instead like normal.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Mon, 08 October 2012, 07:48:52
Can we order a DIY kit?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 08 October 2012, 07:58:27
Can we order a DIY kit?

Yes, I even promised free shipping for anyone wanting to do the soldering themselves =) It should also float you up to the front of the line.

I added all additional interests I could find to the original post. Don't worry too much about the number in front. I will write to each and every one and ask them for a more detailed order when I've got finished controllers to ship.

I think I also just solved the reprogramming of the controller fuses. So I should be set to continue soldering today, yay \o/
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Mon, 08 October 2012, 08:04:38
I will order a DIY kit then! I don't have a Filco, but I'm sure that these will be helpful someday.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 08 October 2012, 13:25:48
Aww too bad I can't do it myself :(
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Mon, 08 October 2012, 14:48:05
What's the difference in arrival times between pre-soldered and DIY?

Also, would this be possible for someone with knowledge of soldering concepts but no soldering experience? Specifically is there any way to go about figuring out what to do?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 08 October 2012, 17:51:59
What's the difference in arrival times between pre-soldered and DIY?

Also, would this be possible for someone with knowledge of soldering concepts but no soldering experience? Specifically is there any way to go about figuring out what to do?
well its SMD probably not the best type to start learning on.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 08 October 2012, 18:09:35
You'd probably want some soldering experience before trying one of these. The components are pretty small. And it is also a lot easier with good tools. It may be a good size project to practice SMD skills on on the other hand.

I will probably have 50 controllers ready by this week at least. So there won't really be much time saved by doing the soldering yourself. I did the back of another 25 today. So I've got 25 fully assembled, and 25 half assembled at the moment.

I managed to change the fuse bits on the trouble controllers, but not loading any program on them. So that is still causing some trouble =P I saw DigiKey have stock of the regular controller again. So I will throw in another 25 for my next order. And save the tricky ones until I have solved how to fix them. I will place the order tomorrow - now I need to sleep.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: ChaoticKinesis on Tue, 09 October 2012, 14:03:28
Sorry but I will be withdrawing my interest in this.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 10 October 2012, 16:55:18
I finally figured out the problem with re-programming the non-standard chips..

Other than that I have completed almost 50 units. And also ordered even more components. My idea to build and release a few at a time sort of got a bit sidetracked.. Now all the build related problems have been taken care of at least. Almost. My China ebay order for header pins haven't been delivered yet, and I've been a bit reluctant to order from Digikey. I did today though, but they only had enough for 50 boards at the moment. That will go some way at least. I also have some from earlier, and hopefully my new ones will be delivered soon. By the end of the week I should be able to start shipping controllers out. I hope...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 10 October 2012, 16:58:50
Sounds good to me. Sadly I'm at the end of the list :(
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Wed, 10 October 2012, 17:27:37
I get more and more excited for this every day at work, every time I find myself dreaming about reprogramming my keyboard. Thrilled to hear it's coming along! Unfortunately I think I am, at worst case, like #84 on the GH list alone. Ha. But, still exciting!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: longweight on Wed, 10 October 2012, 17:29:16
I am excited!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 10 October 2012, 17:47:01
This is going to be my firmware dev/test platform  :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: MechKey on Wed, 10 October 2012, 18:08:02
I'm interested.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 10 October 2012, 19:20:46
This is going to be my firmware dev/test platform  :)
any interest in programing my layout then?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 10 October 2012, 19:46:33
The goal is a pretty flexible firmware, since my GUI is already working with the phantom branch of bp's firmware I'm pretty sure compatibility with this branch is already there.  Mapping a layout will be no big deal.  Where I'm interested is in layers and PC->keyboard communication.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 10 October 2012, 19:47:54
The goal is a pretty flexible firmware, since my GUI is already working with the phantom branch of bp's firmware I'm pretty sure compatibility with this branch is already there.  Mapping a layout will be no big deal.  Where I'm interested is in layers and PC->keyboard communication.
Yes i need a layer and not of the toggleable variety one where you have to hold the Fn key if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 10 October 2012, 20:11:54
Yeah, I intend on both 'settable' and `Fn` style layers.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Wed, 10 October 2012, 20:24:42
Yeah, I intend on both 'settable' and `Fn` style layers.

Awesome! That's pretty much exactly what I'm hoping to achieve through this project. Basically a KBT Pure with some adjustments--IJKL arrow keys, for instance. Now if only I could get an additional key for the layer itself where my left thumb rests.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: MechKey on Fri, 12 October 2012, 12:26:28
Interested in two.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 12 October 2012, 15:30:01
Videos! With me talking, horrible thought =P I have more but my upload limit for this week have been reached. Don't know if I will ever be able to upload the long one of a complete soldering... May have to break that up in some pieces. Or speed some of it up by time lapsing it. That would be neat if I knew how... =D

I've also got a firmware that just mimics the Filco behavior. This is what I will ship the controllers with. I'm trying to get the code to jump to the bootloader when both shifts are pressed, but that doesn't quite work yet. The firmware just stops, and the bootloader doesn't come into play. That's no real biggie though since there is a magnet switch to start the bootloader as well. No need to open the case to reach the reset =)

One 0603 resistor. There are 21 more of them on that side. Another one on the top. Plus 10 capacitors the same footprint size, but double the height.

The controller (should finish processing soon I hope).
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Fri, 12 October 2012, 15:50:24
Man, I really hope I will be able to get these. So much keyboard pr0n ;).
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 12 October 2012, 16:10:24
Every one who wants one so far will have one =) I've got controllers for 100, and all other components for a total of 150. The controllers are the most expensive. That is why I haven't bought them for all units. I wasn't planning to buy this many before selling some either... Buying 25 controllers at a time qualifies for free shipping alone. So that is no big problem.

I also got the soft-jump to the bootloader to work. Guess I should start asking for money. Haven't actually tried the case top to see if it fits yet.. That would be fun if it didn't, but it would also be very surprising. Haven't got it here at the moment either =P
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 12 October 2012, 16:15:48
Watching that makes me want to do it myself... Nice job btw.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Fri, 12 October 2012, 16:22:17
Guess I should start asking for money.

If you've got a bottom line and an email address, I've got a paypal account!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 12 October 2012, 17:22:32
I think this video will be helpful if you haven't opened up a Filco before.


bpiphany, might want to add it to first post ;D

I botched it, but without the camera distracting me I would have done it right...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 12 October 2012, 17:52:48
Sweet let me know when you need money for 3 of them.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 12 October 2012, 21:31:05
Every one who wants one so far will have one =)

Yes!!! That's awesome news to hear.

Haven't actually tried the case top to see if it fits yet.. That would be fun if it didn't, but it would also be very surprising. Haven't got it here at the moment either =P

Uh oh..
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Sat, 13 October 2012, 10:40:05
So, who is excited about getting this? =D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Sat, 13 October 2012, 11:34:09
Me! Me! Me! I'm excited!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 13 October 2012, 11:36:54
I was the first on the interest list for this thread, so yeah, I'm excited! I paid up already and everything. Ready to get these in my Filcos!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 13 October 2012, 13:54:00
Can't wait to get mine also. I check this thread every time I'm on GH. Although, this controller won't be as exciting when we first get it until someone figures out multi-layer. Shipped firmware is same Filco's layout, so no difference there.

Gonna try SMD soldering for the first time.

edit: PAID!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 13 October 2012, 13:59:50
I am excited as well. And man, everyone has moonprismpwr avatars... gotta get mine done soon.
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Sat, 13 October 2012, 15:39:56
.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 13 October 2012, 15:41:59
I think he's going down the list
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Sat, 13 October 2012, 16:09:40
.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: longweight on Sat, 13 October 2012, 16:11:46
Wooo hoooo! I am excited!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 13 October 2012, 16:50:04
I'm putting together orders. I started off with a few easy ones. People I know, people who live close by, some people keeping a bit higher profile on the forums, the guys wanting DIY kits, people I find more likely to do some coding =)

But I will start working my way down top to bottom after this first batch.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 13 October 2012, 16:51:20
It's all good, I'm just happy to know that everyone who wants one will be able to get one.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: moonprismpwr on Sat, 13 October 2012, 21:02:40
I am excited as well. And man, everyone has moonprismpwr avatars... gotta get mine done soon.

Yes please! ;D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Kalmarauder on Sun, 14 October 2012, 01:33:57
With this I could reprogram any key on my filco to act as any key I choose?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sun, 14 October 2012, 02:03:46
Yup, that's the purpose of this custom controller. Reprogramming keys is hardware supported as opposed to doing it by software in the OS.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Kalmarauder on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:31:29
I would like one of these, but I have no soldering experience and I would need guidance in programming it.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Mon, 15 October 2012, 06:12:16
They come soldered, unless you request for one unsoldered. All you have to do is pluck the stock filco controller off and plug this one in, so soldering required.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fruktstund on Tue, 16 October 2012, 07:42:48
nsfw, porn:
(http://puu.sh/1fqQO)

\o/

Now I'll just have to program this beat, but that'll have to wait until tonight, probably.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 16 October 2012, 07:45:03
Might I ask, how did you get it first?  I was under the impression bpiphany was going to work down the list from the top...
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 16 October 2012, 07:49:02
Might I ask, how did you get it first?  I was under the impression bpiphany was going to work down the list from the top...

I cherry picked a few persons.. Living close or I knew since earlier, or just high profile members. I have started working my way down the list now. It'll be a couple of days of sending inquiries to a number of people each day. I wouldn't be able to handle all at the same time..

fruktstund: Did you try closing the case? I noticed my controller is a little bit higher than the stock one. It fit just perfectly in my case. Hopefully the Filco tolerances are tight.. Otherwise there is room to sand away some PCB material to make it fit. There is nothing important that close to the edges =)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 16 October 2012, 08:14:17
nsfw, porn:
Show Image
(http://puu.sh/1fqQO)


\o/

Now I'll just have to program this beat, but that'll have to wait until tonight, probably.
(http://www.robotvsbadger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/meme-tshirts.png)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 16 October 2012, 08:29:37
"high profile" lol
I am the 99%
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 16 October 2012, 09:49:49
If you notice, they are both in Sweden. :D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: boost on Tue, 16 October 2012, 10:19:16
Can't wait to get this.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: phetto on Tue, 16 October 2012, 10:34:04
Im getting mine in a few days! woohoo
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fruktstund on Tue, 16 October 2012, 10:37:18
Probably the first time ever living in Sweden is good when it comes to keyboard stuff. :>

fruktstund: Did you try closing the case? I noticed my controller is a little bit higher than the stock one. It fit just perfectly in my case. Hopefully the Filco tolerances are tight.. Otherwise there is room to sand away some PCB material to make it fit. There is nothing important that close to the edges =)
Yeah, I managed to close it. I had some problems closing the case, but I think that was more because of my inexperience when it comes to closing Filco cases. First time actually!
It didn't even occur to me that the controller might be too high, but it certainly didn't feel like it was the controller that was making me have problems with closing the case. Maybe it was though, I'll notice next time I open and close the case. :)

Now I just need to know how to program this thing, and I'm pretty sure I saw you writing somewhere about it, but I can't find it. I guess I can find the source on GitHub at least?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: harrison on Tue, 16 October 2012, 12:56:47
So stoked to receive my DIY pack.  I just finished cleaning off my work bench yesterday!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 16 October 2012, 12:59:45
YAY!
Quickie question: Two of the legs of the controller is supposed to not be used, right? I don't see any pads where you would solder them to anyway, so I guess they are supposed to be that way. Just wanted to make sure.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 16 October 2012, 13:40:36
YAY!
Quickie question: Two of the legs of the controller is supposed to not be used, right? I don't see any pads where you would solder them to anyway, so I guess they are supposed to be that way. Just wanted to make sure.

Yes, they are left open. I will upload the schematics later on. I think a wiki page will be a good idea.

Probably the first time ever living in Sweden is good when it comes to keyboard stuff. :>

fruktstund: Did you try closing the case? I noticed my controller is a little bit higher than the stock one. It fit just perfectly in my case. Hopefully the Filco tolerances are tight.. Otherwise there is room to sand away some PCB material to make it fit. There is nothing important that close to the edges =)
Yeah, I managed to close it. I had some problems closing the case, but I think that was more because of my inexperience when it comes to closing Filco cases. First time actually!
It didn't even occur to me that the controller might be too high, but it certainly didn't feel like it was the controller that was making me have problems with closing the case. Maybe it was though, I'll notice next time I open and close the case. :)

Now I just need to know how to program this thing, and I'm pretty sure I saw you writing somewhere about it, but I can't find it. I guess I can find the source on GitHub at least?

The controller won't be too high in the sense of hitting the top of the case, but as in too wide or whatever direction I am talking about.. On my case top it fit very snugly into the compartment of the case top. The between-'Up'-and-'End'-direction.

I will have to upload the code to a repository. It is very crude at the moment.. My solution to simplifying away the is_modifier array that was used in the original Phantom code limited the number of keys in the matrix to 128, and the Filco is 8x18=144 =P So I did a quick and dirty revert back to the old code, just to have the thing working on shipment =D Pressing both shift keys at the same time resets into the bootloader. As does passing a magnet across the controller, where that little glass tube is. I have no idea how strong the magnet needs to be, but I've been using not too extreme ones.

There are also other AVR keyboard firmwares out there, that should be easy to modify.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 16 October 2012, 14:43:19
Here is the current code at github for now https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/HID-Liberation-Device

Now I need to do some other stuff...

Edit: And also the very start of the guide for the DIY kit... http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_DIY_Instructions
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: xavierblak on Tue, 16 October 2012, 15:18:48
I'm interested in one.

I'm also interested in an eventual version for the Quickfire Rapid. I see it was mentioned a few times in this thread. Has anyone done any work on reverse engineering the pinout yet? I could take a look at that. Is there an existing documentation on the filco pinout to compare it too?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 16 October 2012, 16:00:47
Reverse engineering the matrix is the easiest part. Only takes a Teensy++, a bunch of wires, and some patience.. After that, and with the appropriate firmware, you just punch away on the keys and let the engineering do itself =D

See this http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34392.msg640733#msg640733
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 16 October 2012, 17:07:09
That's awesome. Can't wait to get mine.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 16 October 2012, 17:25:08
Cant wait to get mine as well, ill sure up my layout as I wait and possibly get some matching caps on order from WASD.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: xavierblak on Wed, 17 October 2012, 09:39:06
Reverse engineering the matrix is the easiest part. Only takes a Teensy++, a bunch of wires, and some patience.. After that, and with the appropriate firmware, you just punch away on the keys and let the engineering do itself =D

That's true. Anything else on the headers? I assume vcc, gnd, usb D-/D+, outputs for status leds, plus all the rows and columns for the keys. Anything else I'm missing? Are you planning on releasing a schematic for this?

Also if you are still taking down people interested in buying one the filco board please add me to the list.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 17 October 2012, 09:39:51
In for 2 pre-mades and 1 DIY ^___^



Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 18 October 2012, 02:36:31
Reverse engineering the matrix is the easiest part. Only takes a Teensy++, a bunch of wires, and some patience.. After that, and with the appropriate firmware, you just punch away on the keys and let the engineering do itself =D

That's true. Anything else on the headers? I assume vcc, gnd, usb D-/D+, outputs for status leds, plus all the rows and columns for the keys. Anything else I'm missing? Are you planning on releasing a schematic for this?

Also if you are still taking down people interested in buying one the filco board please add me to the list.

I uploaded the schematic here http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_DIY_Instructions at the very end. It's not quite correct. It used to be two separate files for the matrix and the controller parts. I just merged them, so there is some overlap, and I am not exactly sure which columns 1-18 A-R that should be paired up. But that is the general idea.

And yes, rows, columns, LEDs, and USB connectors should be all there is to it.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Cindori on Thu, 18 October 2012, 03:19:51
nsfw, porn:
Show Image
(http://puu.sh/1fqQO)


\o/

Now I'll just have to program this beat, but that'll have to wait until tonight, probably.

White backplate?

Is there a filco that comes with that or did you color it yourself?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: DrugER on Thu, 18 October 2012, 05:27:48
i'm very interested !!!
Title: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Thu, 18 October 2012, 08:21:26
I got mine today. Nothing much to report. No issues closing the Filco.
[attach=1]
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: longweight on Thu, 18 October 2012, 08:26:48
Does it come pre-programmed?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 18 October 2012, 08:33:01
Does it come pre-programmed?

It should.. And if it doesn't I missed testing it as well.. But I think I got my workflow pretty clean =)

And general information: I'm working my way down the interest list. Sending out a couple of PMs every day or so. Meaning if you don't answer reasonably soon, other people will skip you in line. No worry though, everyone who has spoken up so far will have theirs eventually. I still haven't got the big heap of header pins from ebay. It's been quite some time now, and it can be ordering from China... Other components is not a limiting factor (except the PCBs of course, 150 of them).
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: longweight on Thu, 18 October 2012, 08:34:48
Does it come pre-programmed?

It should.. And if it doesn't I missed testing it as well.. But I think I got my workflow pretty clean =)

And general information: I'm working my way down the interest list. Sending out a couple of PMs every day or so. Meaning if you don't answer reasonably soon, other people will skip you in line. No worry though, everyone who has spoken up so far will have theirs eventually. I still haven't got the big heap of header pins from ebay. It's been quite some time now, and it can be ordering from China... Other components is not a limiting factor (except the PCBs of course, 150 of them).


Excellent :D


Has mine been shipped?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 18 October 2012, 08:42:22
The firmware doesn't do much of course, just mimics the Filco, with an additional double-shift-kill-switch...

[attach=1]
Hope that doesn't spill anything too private.. Date stamped Tuesday =)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: longweight on Thu, 18 October 2012, 08:45:41
The firmware doesn't do much of course, just mimics the Filco, with an additional double-shift-kill-switch...

(Attachment Link)
Hope that doesn't spill anything too private.. Date stamped Tuesday =)


I am so excited!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Thu, 18 October 2012, 08:48:39
You should be, longweight. This is full of epic win!

bpiphany, you are excellent at what you do, sir. I am extremely happy with the controllers, and the packaging was very secure too. Perfect :).
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: 4LI4Z on Thu, 18 October 2012, 09:02:04
  :p Can't wait for it. I'm so excited.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fruktstund on Thu, 18 October 2012, 09:09:43
Here is the current code at github for now https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/HID-Liberation-Device

Now I need to do some other stuff...

Edit: And also the very start of the guide for the DIY kit... http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_DIY_Instructions
Woohoo, I'll check it out!

White backplate?

Is there a filco that comes with that or did you color it yourself?
It's from a pink Filco, so yes, it comes in white. Maybe the white Filcos also do, but I have no idea really. <: Seems kind of reasonable though.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: xavierblak on Thu, 18 October 2012, 09:17:08
I uploaded the schematic here http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_DIY_Instructions at the very end. It's not quite correct. It used to be two separate files for the matrix and the controller parts. I just merged them, so there is some overlap, and I am not exactly sure which columns 1-18 A-R that should be paired up. But that is the general idea.

And yes, rows, columns, LEDs, and USB connectors should be all there is to it.

Very cool. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Thu, 18 October 2012, 09:20:48
Did I miss the part where I was supposed to pay?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 18 October 2012, 09:23:14
No, you didn't. 
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 18 October 2012, 09:25:23
Don't worry, you aren't too far down the line ;)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Thu, 18 October 2012, 09:31:54
Phew, I was asleep at the switch and missed the Phantom deadline.
I didn't want that to happen again.

:)  Cheers.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Thu, 18 October 2012, 11:04:29
Between this and Ergodox, I think I probably check geekhack around three dozen times per day. Once every 10-15 minutes? Sounds about right.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 18 October 2012, 12:53:48
Ahhhhh I can't wait to get mine!!!
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 18 October 2012, 14:33:43
.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 18 October 2012, 14:34:19
Bid for one in Dan's auction :D
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 18 October 2012, 20:36:29
.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 18 October 2012, 21:17:10
Pokemon
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 18 October 2012, 23:39:45
.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: phetto on Fri, 19 October 2012, 08:31:13
What can this be?
(http://i.imgur.com/Z9FSs.jpg)
.... the piece itself! ty bpiphany
(http://i.imgur.com/5kGW8.jpg)
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Fri, 19 October 2012, 09:44:50
Nice pictures, phetto! Now install that baby!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: phetto on Fri, 19 October 2012, 14:15:42
^ will most certainly do it soon, im smashed with stuff to do, friends, family etc need help with thit and that.. :D
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 19 October 2012, 17:17:18
I can help you install it... on my board
Title: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Fri, 19 October 2012, 17:20:50
[attach=1]

I already posted this in some other thread.
One of my pre-assembled and one DIY kit for you to envy me over ;).

Excellent work.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 19 October 2012, 17:22:47
Looks like a fun time!
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Fri, 19 October 2012, 17:25:44
Glissant, are you going to try to do SMD soldering with standard iron with small tip or do you have a hot air station?
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gizzard on Fri, 19 October 2012, 17:29:00
1. this is awesome.  Huge props to bpiphany
2.  Sadly, its been years since i messed with microcontrollers
   1.  Anybody dig up that Atmel bootloader for windows?  Ideally one that works with windows 7
   2.  to turn C->hex, i assume i need to run the makefile through a compiler...  For those of us who have become lame javascript coders, what is an easy compiler to install and run on windows
   3.  Didnt see a micro USB port on the chip.  I assume im going to need a USB -> serial pin adapter.  Any ideas?
   4.  Is the best way to deal with the code to mess with the matrix or to dabble with the main?  OK, i assume this question is answered by some post/wiki on teensy.. can someone link it up in this thread?

I figure these are all questions that other people are wondering as well.  Thanks for being patient with me.. its been about a decade since i could do this stuff.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Fri, 19 October 2012, 17:30:32
Glissant, are you going to try to do SMD soldering with standard iron with small tip or do you have a hot air station?

When I find the time I will be trying to SMD solder with a standard iron with small tip. I bought it as a learning tool =).
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 19 October 2012, 18:08:25
1. this is awesome.  Huge props to bpiphany
2.  Sadly, its been years since i messed with microcontrollers
   1.  Anybody dig up that Atmel bootloader for windows?  Ideally one that works with windows 7
   2.  to turn C->hex, i assume i need to run the makefile through a compiler...  For those of us who have become lame javascript coders, what is an easy compiler to install and run on windows
   3.  Didnt see a micro USB port on the chip.  I assume im going to need a USB -> serial pin adapter.  Any ideas?
   4.  Is the best way to deal with the code to mess with the matrix or to dabble with the main?  OK, i assume this question is answered by some post/wiki on teensy.. can someone link it up in this thread?

I figure these are all questions that other people are wondering as well.  Thanks for being patient with me.. its been about a decade since i could do this stuff.


There is a bootloader on the chip. So if you plug it into your Filco board, you can just connect that like normal to your computer and you'll talk to the bootloader over USB =)

I have no clue on winAVR or anything Windows related. But I would recommend a proper OS for any programming work... Ubuntu can be installed within a file container on your Windows system, and there is also cygwin to give you a *nix like environment.

Atmel has their FLIP tool to talk to the bootloader http://www.atmel.com/tools/FLIP.aspx It was a bit tricky to install when I tried it out. But after that it seemed to work just fine.

Glissant, are you going to try to do SMD soldering with standard iron with small tip or do you have a hot air station?

When I find the time I will be trying to SMD solder with a standard iron with small tip. I bought it as a learning tool =).

I tried doing most steps with my "large" 2.2mm chisel tip iron, and it was quite ok actually. Turning it on the short edge doing tight stuff really helps. Chisel tips are the best though, you wan them quite narrow, although wide is ok at the same time.
Title: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: oneproduct on Fri, 19 October 2012, 19:42:31
I had tried to install FLIP on Windows first but when I ran into problems tried moving to Ubuntu. However, trying to install it there proved even more troublesome and I ended up coming back to Windows. Here are some instructions to get people started:

1. Go to http://www.atmel.com/tools/FLIP.aspx and download FLIP. For most people you'll want the 2nd one on the list which is "FLIP 3.4.7 for Windows (Java Runtime Environement included)".
2. Install FLIP.
3. Plug in your keyboard and press both Shifts. Windows will detect the bootloader but will fail to find drivers for it. (@bpiphany Assuming it's not super obvious when we look at... whatever it is we use to configure this, could you inform us how to change this to something even more obscure? Sometimes I'll press both shifts for a split second when I realize I'm holding down the "wrong" shift, i.e. not the one opposite to the key I need to press so I switch to hit the other and may accidentally hit both)
4. Go to Device Manager and you'll see the bootloader listed among the devices.
5. Right-click on it and select Update Drivers.
6. Browse to your FLIP folder and there is a folder called "usb" inside of it. Point the driver updater to that.
7. Run FLIP (you'll have a shortcut on your desktop if you chose that during install).
8. Press the first icon from the left (looks like an integrated circuit) or you can pick Device > Select from the menu.
9. Select ATmega32U4 from the list.
10. Press the second icon from the left (looks like a USB cable) or you can pick Settings > Communication > USB.
11. Press Open at the prompt and you're connected!

Now if someone can give me a hint about how to actually setup the hex files to load onto it I'd be happy to hear it! :D
If you're feeling super generous and just want to set up a Colemak layout file for me, even better! http://colemak.com/ (just the letters and caps lock to backspace are different relative to Qwerty)

Edit: Looked at the Github repo for this, saw the makefile and was thinking to myself, "woohoo, this should be easy!"
I moved over to Ubuntu, fiddled with the avr_keyboard.c file and changed the keys I needed easily enough and tried to run make... but alas no, I need avr-gcc which has several dependencies which have dependencies of their own! http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/install_tools.html
I was working through them slowly but at the very end I had a version mismatch and was consumed with sadness! Might have a stab at this again a bit later, but easy answers would be nice as well!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gizzard on Sat, 20 October 2012, 00:50:36
One product-thanks for the explanation!!  When you figure out how to compile to hex and load it up, but sure to post!! 
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 20 October 2012, 02:43:06
On Ubuntu - use any programmer worthy editor, like emacs, vim, or whatever. Compile with the Makefile from a terminal, and talk to the bootloader through dfu-programmer tool. Atmel's last FLIP version for Linux is like 5 years old or so...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Sat, 20 October 2012, 04:45:58
Aha! I notice the thread title has changed from [Interest Check] to [GB]. Good things ahead!

:D
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 20 October 2012, 05:10:17
Aha! I notice the thread title has changed from [Interest Check] to [GB]. Good things ahead!

:D

I noticed as well... Thanks for helping me out on that Reaper =)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: reaper on Sat, 20 October 2012, 12:30:54

Thanks for helping me out on that Reaper =)

You're weclome.  :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: oneproduct on Sun, 21 October 2012, 00:48:50
I've figured out how to reprogram the keyboard in Windows, which I'm sure is what most people are interested in. I've successfully changed my keyboard from Qwerty to Colemak. It's late now but I'll post a tutorial about how to do it tomorrow. For those who aren't tech savvy, don't worry, it's fairly easy and I'm pretty good at describing things in plain English. :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 21 October 2012, 01:37:20
I solved the 128 key matrix limit I had. The obvious solution was using structs rather than doing a pointer-to-every-other-item-hack. I also solved the bootloader jump problem I had. Not as prettily though.. =)

So the code has been merged into my AVR-Keyboard repository https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/AVR-Keyboard

The Makefile needs to have these options selected
Code: [Select]
BOARD = hib_liber
LAYOUT = ansi_iso_jis
MCU = atmega32u4
F_CPU = 16000000
B_LOADER = \"jmp\ 0x7000\"

In a proper OS terminal to build the firmware
Code: [Select]
make clean; make
And to flash the firmware to the controller
Code: [Select]
dfu-programmer atmega32u4 erase
dfu-programmer atmega32u4 flash avr_keyboard.hex
dfu-programmer atmega32u4 start
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: oneproduct on Sun, 21 October 2012, 01:42:16
Here's a tutorial for making simple layout changes to your keyboard in Windows, which I imagine is what most people are interested in. This tutorial does not cover how to do fancy things with extra layers and such. I'll have to try to fiddle with that myself in the future if I can even figure out how to do it.

@bpiphany
Perhaps you could link to this post in the original post so people can find it.

Code: [Select]
1. Get "Make for Windows"
a. Download this http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnuwin32/files/make/3.81/make-3.81.exe/download?use_mirror=iweb&download=
b. Install it, preferably to C:/GnuWin32/
c. Open the Control Panel
d. Select System
e. Select Advanced System Settings
f. Go to the Advanced tab
g. Select Environment Variables
h. In the lower box, called System Variables, scroll down and find "Path"
i. Click Edit...
j. In the Variable value box, go all the way to the end. If there isn't a semi-colon, put one. After the semi-colon add C:\GnuWin32\bin or wherever you actually installed it to plus an extra \bin at the end.

2. Get WinAVR
a. Download this http://cmtk3.webring.org/l/rd?ring=avr;id=59;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwinavr.sourceforge.net%2F
b. Install it and when you do make sure to leave the "Add directory to PATH" option enabled (it's on by default)

3. Get the source code for the keyboard
a. Download this https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/AVR-Keyboard/zipball/master
b. Extract it somewhere easy to get to
c. In the folder, open "Makefile" with a text editing program. The regular Windows Notepad seems to butcher the formatting, but WordPad works fine if you don't have anything else. If you're looking for something a bit better, you could try downloading and installing Notepad++ http://download.tuxfamily.org/notepadplus/6.2/npp.6.2.Installer.exe
d. Find this line and remove the word "end" from it
build: avr_keyboard.hex avr_keyboard.eep end
e. Find this line and remove the words "end" and "clean" from it
.PHONY : build hex eep end clean
f. Remove these two whole sections (all they do is delete the .dep folder that will be created later on, which you can do manually if you want)
end:
@echo
find . -regextype posix-awk -regex \
"(.*\.cof|.*\.elf|.*\.map|.*\.sym|.*\.lss|.*\.o|.*\.lst|.*\.s|.*\.d|.*\.i)" \
-exec rm {} +
rm -rf .dep

clean:
@echo
@echo Cleaning everything:
find . -maxdepth 1 -regextype posix-awk -regex \
"(.*\.hex|.*\.eep|.*\.cof|.*\.elf|.*\.map|.*\.sym|.*\.lss|.*\.o|.*\.lst|.*\.s|.*\.d|.*\.i)" \
-exec rm {} +
rm -rf .dep

4. Make your custom keyboard layout
a. Go to the folder hid_liber and open ansi_iso_jis.c in a text editor.
b. This is where you can rebind your keys. For example, you can replace KEY_A with KEY_Z or whatever you wish. For those interested in layers, it isn't covered in this tutorial, this just deals with basic changes.
c. Save the file when you're done.
d. Go back to the main folder (that contains the file called "Makefile"). Hold Ctrl+Shift and right-click in the folder.
e. Select "Open command window here".
f. Type "make" and press enter. You'll now have a new avr_keyboard.hex file in that folder.

5. Install FLIP (the ATmega32U4 programming tool)
a. Download this http://www.atmel.com/Images/JRE%20-%20Flip%20Installer%20-%203.4.7.112.exe
( alternatively, if you already have a Java runtime environment installed you can get this instead http://www.atmel.com/Images/Flip%20Installer%20-%203.4.7.112.exe )
b. Install FLIP.

6. Install the bootloader driver
a. Plug in your keyboard.
b. Press both shifts. Windows will detect the bootloader but will fail to find drivers for it. Note that this will probably make your keyboard and mouse inputs weird because it thinks you're still holding down shift. For me I found the easiest way to fix this is to press the Windows button and write "keyboard" in the search box then open the "On-Screen Keyboard" program. Typing anything while it's open seems to fix it.
c. Open the Control Panel.
d. Select Device Manager and you'll see the bootloader listed among the devices.
e. Right-click on it and select Update Drivers.
f. Browse to where you installed FLIP and there is a folder called "usb" inside of it. Point the driver updater to that.

7. Loading the hex file to the keyboard
a. Run FLIP (you'll have a shortcut on your desktop if you chose that during install).
b. Press the first icon from the left (looks like an integrated circuit) or you can pick Device > Select from the menu.
c. Select ATmega32U4 from the list.
d. Press the second icon from the left (looks like a USB cable) or you can pick Settings > Communication > USB.
e. Press Open at the prompt.
f. Press the third icon from right (looks like an arrow pointing at an open book) or you can pick File > Load HEX File.
g. Browse to avr_keyboard.hex which we made in step 4.
h. Press the Run button at the bottom left. You're done! Disconnect and reconnect your keyboard and enjoy.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 21 October 2012, 02:09:50
Wow, that is a lot of text ;D

I suggest adding stuff to this wiki page I just created instead. That way anyone can contribute without needing me to edit any post. I will link to it in the first post instead.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_Instructions
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gizzard on Sun, 21 October 2012, 03:16:40
Amazing.  Now I just need the board :p
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: mickd on Sun, 21 October 2012, 07:30:18
Got the email, will pay soon-ish ;) Kind of low on liquid funds at the moment, ha!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 21 October 2012, 07:33:28
Oh, yeah, and don't run off paying straight away to Paypal. Send me your order specification, and I'll send you a Paypal invoice =)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fruktstund on Sun, 21 October 2012, 07:37:53
Oh, so it's possible to do it on Windows too? Neat. Couldn't build anything at all on my laptop (running Arch Linux) due to outdated packages, and when I did a full system upgrade I kind of broke the whole system. Was for the better anyway, I think, since I hadn't updated anything for about a year. That's what happens when you have a broadband connection of 0.5Mb/s, people. :) Not recommended!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 21 October 2012, 07:52:52
Uploading the solder instruction videos may have been the first time I really noticed my 100Mbit upload speed. I pay "nothing" for my 100/100Mbit connection =D My neighborhood has 900 apartments. I think they got a very sweet deal on their Internet connection a couple of years ago, and now it is included in the monthly fee, which they didn't increase. I went from paying $20 a month for 10/10Mbit to paying nothing for ten times as much..
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 21 October 2012, 09:17:33
Damn, I pay $60 for 12/2 and that's in the top tier around here.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fruktstund on Sun, 21 October 2012, 09:43:36
Sweden is quite highly ranked when it comes to broadband connections, I believe. I know my grandmother's neighbours get the same kind of deal as you bpiphany, while she has to pay $19 for 100/10 Mbit. Poor her. :P (Best thing is that she's able to get 1000/100 too, lol.)
Out here on the countryside it's a bit different though. $38 for 0.5/0.5 Mbit, and that's the best wired connection we can get. Have been using a 4G connection (with a directional antenna) for a couple of weeks now, and I usually get around 7/8Mbit. It's quite a big upgrade from 0.5Mb/s. :D
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Mon, 22 October 2012, 20:47:18
Got these in today  :D . My goodness some of the components are smaller than I thought. Props to you bipiphany for being able to do SMD soldering with just an iron. How long did it take you to solder each one? I'll start playing around with the programming when I have time. Here are some pics in the meantime.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_1539.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_1540.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_1542.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_1544.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_1554.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_1557.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_1558.jpg)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Mon, 22 October 2012, 21:31:37
Nice Filco!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: longweight on Tue, 23 October 2012, 01:03:36
Mine has arrived! No time yet to get it out :(
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gameaholic on Tue, 23 October 2012, 06:52:50
I want one.  I would need help programming it though.  I would like to switch my caps lock to control (so 2 controls) and I would like the LEDS to alternate lighting up every time I push a key (kinda like the reactive mode on a ducky YOTD).

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 23 October 2012, 08:20:30
Cant wait to get mine i have 2 filcos sitting and waiting for them.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Tue, 23 October 2012, 08:47:11
Just paid for mine.  I'm excited to see how much my soldering skill has deteriorated in the 19years since I did any. :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 23 October 2012, 09:29:58
Damn, I pay $60 for 12/2 and that's in the top tier around here.
I pay $60 for 3/1 because monopolies suck. I'm too far from the college campus to get a cantenna working.

Bpiphany, why did you poke the atmel chip during the soldering video?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 23 October 2012, 10:09:31
I'm flat out of pin header now.. My cheap ass ones from China ebay still haven't arrived. But I just put an order on Mouser for more of them. And 25 more ATmegas. I have a few boards lacking only the pin headers. They will be quick to finish. And I should be able to prepare some more tomorrow as well. The headers should arrive the very latest after the weekend. But I suppose the China ones will probably show up tomorrow =P

I bought a new pack of stamps today at least =) Some of you have probably already gotten the 12kr "stampus gigantus" with socks on them. I have no idea why they made them that huge... But they look kinda cool =D

Bpiphany, why did you poke the atmel chip during the soldering video?
Just to release it from the tweezers. I need to force them to go that far apart, and I just don't want to crook the orientation pulling them off =)

Got these in today  :D . My goodness some of the components are smaller than I thought. Props to you bipiphany for being able to do SMD soldering with just an iron. How long did it take you to solder each one? I'll start playing around with the programming when I have time. Here are some pics in the meantime.
I would like to say that I am able to squeeze out 4 an hour when I am up to speed, but it's probably closer to 3... It takes some extra time doing the final steps and inspection and corrections. Packaging, keeping track of payments, and such also takes some time in the end.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Kalmarauder on Tue, 23 October 2012, 17:01:47
They come soldered, unless you request for one unsoldered. All you have to do is pluck the stock filco controller off and plug this one in, so soldering required.

Oh, awesome! Well, I would definitely like to buy one.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Wed, 24 October 2012, 01:21:48
I'm looking forward to getting this bad boy.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 24 October 2012, 01:24:35
This should work with a Filco Camo right?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: 4LI4Z on Wed, 24 October 2012, 10:58:11
Got mine today. Realy nice packaging and quick shiping.

Yes, it should work with a Filco Camo. As far as I know the only difference between a Camo and a normal Majestouch 2 Filco is the case.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 24 October 2012, 12:32:04
Got mine today as well, and I already have them installed in 3 of my Filco's. Just using the stock programming for now, but I'll attempt to program it later. Thanks, bpiphany!

(http://i.imgur.com/GZJTD.jpg)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Wed, 24 October 2012, 13:14:09
For OS X users, give CrossPack a shot - http://www.obdev.at/products/crosspack/index.html

I don't have my Liberation boards yet, so I can't test.
I'll keep my fork of the firmware up to date when I have my boards.
https://github.com/tjweir/AVR-Keyboard
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 24 October 2012, 14:51:06
Got mine today. Realy nice packaging and quick shiping.

Yes, it should work with a Filco Camo. As far as I know the only difference between a Camo and a normal Majestouch 2 Filco is the case.

Sweet ^___^
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 24 October 2012, 16:13:34
I didn't have time to mess with reprogramming yet, but one thing I noticed is that when holding both shifts down and pressing a few other keys, the keyboard disconnect from the computer and is no longer recognized or responds. Unplugging and replugging the USB cable back in reboots the keyboard to working condition again. Is this normal or a bug in the firmware?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 24 October 2012, 21:18:13
I didn't have time to mess with reprogramming yet, but one thing I noticed is that when holding both shifts down and pressing a few other keys, the keyboard disconnect from the computer and is no longer recognized or responds. Unplugging and replugging the USB cable back in reboots the keyboard to working condition again. Is this normal or a bug in the firmware?

That should actually be the only noticeable difference from the original one. Pressing both shifts makes the device enter the bootloader =) Someone reported that this may have adverse effects on Windows, but I haven't tried that myself..
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: oneproduct on Wed, 24 October 2012, 22:24:03
I changed that on mine since I would probably accidentally hit both shifts at some times. I have mine set to both controls, both alts and both shifts all together. :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 25 October 2012, 08:42:39
FedEx was here with headers and ATmegas. But that will have to wait until tomorrow. I need to sleep =P

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 25 October 2012, 09:17:14
That first cat pic... 'What!? I happen to like boxes. :P'
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: 4LI4Z on Thu, 25 October 2012, 10:07:02
Nice pics!  ;D

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23933552.jpg)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 25 October 2012, 10:43:49
So...I know you just finished the Filco controller and all, but are you planning on doing a QFRapid Controller? If not, may we get the Gerber files to modify the Filco controller?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 25 October 2012, 11:11:37
I need to learn how to order from a pick-and-place manufacturer. I prepared another 10 for the last step of header pins yesterday, and I am not as fast as I like to pretend =P It's not reasonable to assemble this many by hand the way I am doing now. It's been good soldering practice, but I've done that now =) With reflow soldering I can also move to using a controller with enough IO-pins to use the internal pull-ups. There will be more setups costs, more steps, and I will also need to tool a solder paste dispensing stencil. But when everything is set up there should be no problem chunking them out by the hundreds in no time at all =D I would like to do a controller for the full size Filco as well. After that there may be other interesting ones as well I guess...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 25 October 2012, 13:54:17
I changed that on mine since I would probably accidentally hit both shifts at some times. I have mine set to both controls, both alts and both shifts all together. :)
I like that definitely not going to accidentally do that.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 25 October 2012, 13:57:36
:( still haven't gotten a pm about getting some :( but its cool ive got some other projects at the moment also
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 25 October 2012, 16:06:53
:( still haven't gotten a pm about getting some :( but its cool ive got some other projects at the moment also

Let's do that today then ;) I should be able to start putting headers onto the units I've got almost ready tomorrow. Then shippings can resume again. Disregarding the ones lacking headers, I've either soldered or made DIY kits of 99 of the PCBs (Soldered most of them...).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 25 October 2012, 16:20:44
:( still haven't gotten a pm about getting some :( but its cool ive got some other projects at the moment also

Let's do that today then ;) I should be able to start putting headers onto the units I've got almost ready tomorrow. Then shippings can resume again. Disregarding the ones lacking headers, I've either soldered or made DIY kits of 99 of the PCBs (Soldered most of them...).
Thanks just got the pm you can leave the headers off mine if you want as i can easily solder those on but I have nothing to do SMD otherwise i would have done that too.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:18:02
Thanks just got the pm you can leave the headers off mine if you want as i can easily solder those on but I have nothing to do SMD otherwise i would have done that too.

What does SMD mean? One of the UrbanDictionary definitions says "so many dinosaurs" but it doesn't really fit the context here.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:24:00
http://tinyurl.com/jp2vl
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:37:52
http://tinyurl.com/jp2vl

That makes MUCH more sense :D Thanks!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 26 October 2012, 08:54:51
Yaaaaay... got mine, installed one.   Now to get down to business.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Wildcard on Fri, 26 October 2012, 09:33:48
What does SMD mean? One of the UrbanDictionary definitions says "so many dinosaurs" but it doesn't really fit the context here.

Surface Mount Device

Here's a good video. Surface Mount Soldering 101

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 26 October 2012, 23:05:06
We need some place to talk about your firmware, bp... There are some things that I don't have enough know-how to deal with that it would be nice to share and get opinions on, makes no sense to do it  in this thread. 

That said, I've crashed the KB a number of times with the way I type.  Something about the right shift and an all-caps word or phrase.  Haven't pinned it down yet, for all I know I am transitioning from the left shift to the right fast enough to hit the bootloader. 

I think that my space bar switch is causing an occasional double space.

Another interesting thing is that I can get the KB to register both Win keys and the Menu key as down by using them with the Alt-key.  Either Alt can do it to any of the 3 Win/Menu keys.  Hold Alt, press Win/Menu, release the Win/Menu, release Alt.  This  sticks the Win/Menu key.  Releasing Alt before Win/Menu does not do this.

If you want to check this out I suggest that you use Aqua's Key Test.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: kb_jockey on Sat, 27 October 2012, 02:22:12
Are there any of these HID Liberation Devices still available, I am interested in getting a couple if the postage to Australia is not to much.

Cheers,

kb_jockey
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 27 October 2012, 05:28:27
We need some place to talk about your firmware, bp... There are some things that I don't have enough know-how to deal with that it would be nice to share and get opinions on, makes no sense to do it  in this thread. 
I don't know what kind of resources there are on github to discuss, I didn't see any forum at a quick glance. But I guess a thread here would do as well. I've started some wiki pages regarding the controller on the deskthority wiki.

That said, I've crashed the KB a number of times with the way I type.  Something about the right shift and an all-caps word or phrase.  Haven't pinned it down yet, for all I know I am transitioning from the left shift to the right fast enough to hit the bootloader. 
This reboot condition can be changed quite easily, to include more keys, or to something completely different. Or just remove it altogether and use the magnet switch to reset the controller.

I think that my space bar switch is causing an occasional double space.
This I have experienced myself. With space in particular (only space actually I think), I don't know if the de-bouncing time needs to be increased perhaps.

Another interesting thing is that I can get the KB to register both Win keys and the Menu key as down by using them with the Alt-key.  Either Alt can do it to any of the 3 Win/Menu keys.  Hold Alt, press Win/Menu, release the Win/Menu, release Alt.  This  sticks the Win/Menu key.  Releasing Alt before Win/Menu does not do this.
Nothing like this ever happened to me as far as I know. Honestly I'm not using the latest firmware much. I should probably update my regular keyboard to use it as well to see if I can catch any bugs. Keys sticking in firmware sounds very odd in general, since they should be released by themselves very quickly if not registering as pressed. An actual hardware error (bad solder joint) wouldn't really explain it either. That should rather make the key flicker on and off. I would guess this is an OS issue (or OS-firmware compatibility issue at least).

If you want to check this out I suggest that you use Aqua's Key Test.
I still suggest using a proper OS ;) No, seriously, that seems odd, and of course it should work on all OSs. I haven't experienced anything like that myself. I use the Gnome "Show Layout Chart" for testing purposes.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 27 October 2012, 05:32:06
Are there any of these HID Liberation Devices still available, I am interested in getting a couple if the postage to Australia is not to much.

Cheers,

kb_jockey

Postage to Australia is the same as every other non-EU country =) But I am seriously considering only sending out units to the ones that made it onto the list (which is no longer available online, but safe on my computer...). I need to redesign this to use automatic production. It's taking way to long for me to do it by hand. And there are other keyboard models which would be interesting to support as well. I at least need some sort of break from producing more units. But I've got material to produce more than the interest check was for. Although people are ordering more than they said. I've already sent out more than what was asked for ;)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 27 October 2012, 08:52:03
If you want to check this out I suggest that you use Aqua's Key Test.
I still suggest using a proper OS ;) No, seriously, that seems odd, and of course it should work on all OSs. I haven't experienced anything like that myself. I use the Gnome "Show Layout Chart" for testing purposes.

My main is Windows so I can play games.  Work laptop, personal servers, and most of what I do professionally is Unix.  I don't touch Gnome or KDE tho.  All my access to these is remote from my main tho except the rare occasions that I go to the office.  When they have a good mimo matrix video switcher then I might consider having a light weight box w/ Linux for my main and only  do games on Win.  As it is I have to support 5 PCs, my server w/ 4 VMs, 2 tablets and a smartphone just at home.  Gaaaaah!!!!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: kb_jockey on Sat, 27 October 2012, 18:41:53
Postage to Australia is the same as every other non-EU country =) But I am seriously considering only sending out units to the ones that made it onto the list (which is no longer available online, but safe on my computer...). I need to redesign this to use automatic production. It's taking way to long for me to do it by hand. And there are other keyboard models which would be interesting to support as well. I at least need some sort of break from producing more units. But I've got material to produce more than the interest check was for. Although people are ordering more than they said. I've already sent out more than what was asked for ;)

Thankyou for the response bpiphany and the work you are doing getting this board out.

I will look at other ways to get started on keyboard programming maybe the GH60 or just commission someone locally to make a HID Liberation Device.

Cheers,

kb_jockey
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 27 October 2012, 21:04:51
Ordered and paid thanks a bunch
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 27 October 2012, 22:09:51
Is this filco only? could it work for other boards?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 27 October 2012, 22:10:23
Filco TKL only
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 27 October 2012, 22:12:49
Filco TKL only

:( I don't think I will ever get a filco. The price is just to great! There are many other options. I am a Fan of their keyboards though.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 28 October 2012, 01:55:31
Wonding how easy it would be to port phantom firmware over to this.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 28 October 2012, 10:32:11
From BP's git the phantom and this are the same thing.  Just a different matrix config file.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 28 October 2012, 15:55:41
From BP's git the phantom and this are the same thing.  Just a different matrix config file.
Alright thanks for the quick response shouldnt be too hard then to get Tranquilites working on this as well
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheQsanity on Sun, 28 October 2012, 16:25:02
So...I know you just finished the Filco controller and all, but are you planning on doing a QFRapid Controller? If not, may we get the Gerber files to modify the Filco controller?

A QFR one would be nice. Im sure there are s lot of people here with QFRs.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Mon, 29 October 2012, 10:42:15
Mine arrived.  No time to program it now, but it worked perfect as a drop-in replacement.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Appeac on Mon, 29 October 2012, 16:15:59
So...I know you just finished the Filco controller and all, but are you planning on doing a QFRapid Controller? If not, may we get the Gerber files to modify the Filco controller?

A QFR one would be nice. Im sure there are s lot of people here with QFRs.

Indeed. I sold off my filco after registering interest, and would very much like to buy a QFR. Not enough money in the coffers for another Filco though.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: skriefal on Mon, 29 October 2012, 21:37:18
This should work with a Filco Camo right?

Yep.  Just installed one into a Camo.  Works fine.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 30 October 2012, 10:05:11
FYI - this thing cannot cope at all in a noisy environment.  In my running car w/ a crap 400watt power invert I'm getting a ton of random key registrations.  (oh yeah, and wifi and 2 verizon cells, one doing internet the other idling)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 30 October 2012, 10:16:44
You use a Filco in your car????
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 30 October 2012, 10:24:32
I can't stand laptop keyboards.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 30 October 2012, 11:00:34
Lol just concentrate on driving!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 30 October 2012, 11:04:44
LOL...  Parked in my driveway, I'm not nuts.  The one time I was typing in a moving vehicle I wasn't driving anyhow, 1200miles can get awful boring.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 30 October 2012, 11:41:00
I got my 2 pre-mades and 1 DIY in the mail today. Wish me luck on my first SMD soldering
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 30 October 2012, 20:06:04
Lol just concentrate on driving!

No, add more de-bouncing.. =D There is actually none whatsoever on keypresses, only releases. So that could probably help a lot.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 31 October 2012, 13:57:31
Um, this was motionless with no typing.  It's NOT a debounce issue.  The same setup works fine 10 feet removed from the car and inverter.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Wed, 31 October 2012, 14:01:52
Has anyone configured their board with multiple layers?
Care to share any info how to do so?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 31 October 2012, 15:25:28
Has anyone configured their board with multiple layers?
Care to share any info how to do so?

Thanks!
will be working on this with tranquilite once i get my controllers.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Wed, 31 October 2012, 15:30:10
Has anyone configured their board with multiple layers?
Care to share any info how to do so?

Thanks!
will be working on this with tranquilite once i get my controllers.

Excellent, I took a look at the source, but I've been using Scala and Haskell for long enough, that all of the C has been pushed out of my brain.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 31 October 2012, 17:22:15
Um, this was motionless with no typing.  It's NOT a debounce issue.  The same setup works fine 10 feet removed from the car and inverter.

Call it filtering then =P In software, very similar to de-bouncing anyway. The code as it is considers a key to be pressed as soon as it registers. When it stops registering it needs to do so for a short period of time before actually being consodered released. If you add such a delay to the falling rising edge you should be able to filter out noise as well.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 31 October 2012, 17:34:37
so you'll only get one press due to emi per unit time instead of 500? hah!

ALUMINUM FOIL, ALARIC. TINFOIL HAT FOR YOUR FILCO
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 31 October 2012, 19:32:32
so you'll only get one press due to emi per unit time instead of 500? hah!

ALUMINUM FOIL, ALARIC. TINFOIL HAT FOR YOUR FILCO

Well, hopefully the EMI doesn't look like that... If it is bouncing along with a higher frequency than the "de-bouncing" time it should just be filtered out.

It would also be interesting to know how the stock controller handles the same environment...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 01 November 2012, 09:20:34
so you'll only get one press due to emi per unit time instead of 500? hah!

ALUMINUM FOIL, ALARIC. TINFOIL HAT FOR YOUR FILCO
I was considering this, but since it's in a car, you won't have earth, and the ground might not be clean enough for a proper faraday cage. Still, can't hurt. I'd back the tinfoil with tape so as to not short out the controller, then ground it to the case (Which should be grounded to the USB shield anyway) Since it's a laptop, it's all probably floating anyway, but sometimes you'll have to take what you can get.

This is one reason why the Data911 KB's are grounded so well, I'm sure.

But the debouncing thing should work as well. The only downside I see is that you won't be able to register extremely quick keypresses, but I take that as a good substitute: You're not that fast.

I do like the magnetic switch for resets.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 01 November 2012, 10:08:43
I'll get around to testing that when my fingers aren't froze.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Index on Thu, 01 November 2012, 12:38:47
I'm interested in one also. Is it too late?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 01 November 2012, 20:05:21
ering this, but since it's in a car, you won't have earth, and the ground might not be clean enough for a proper faraday cage. Still, can't hurt. I'd back the tinfoil with tape so as to not short out the controller, then ground it to the case (Which should be grounded to the USB shield anyway) Since it's a laptop, it's all probably floating anyway, but sometimes you'll have to take what you can get.

This is one reason why the Data911 KB's are grounded so well, I'm sure.

But the debouncing thing should work as well. The only downside I see is that you won't be able to register extremely quick keypresses, but I take that as a good substitute: You're not that fast.

I do like the magnetic switch for resets.

Remember you've got a pretty large antenna for that noise in the keyboard itself as well.. And I don't think the case is very well grounded, being plastic and all. Adding shielding should do good no mater if you have a earth ground connection or not. I also have no idea how well shielded the top side of the keyboard is. The plate should certainly help, but there are a lot of holes in it filled with mostly plastic =)

I'm interested in one also. Is it too late?

Not quite sure actually, people have been ordering more than they reported interest for.. I'll add your name to the bottom of the list for now. There may be a version 2 coming out at some point in the future as well, when I've learned how to order assembled ones
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: DarkShot on Fri, 02 November 2012, 20:35:08
Just received mine today. Cheers man!

Now I have to learn how to program in function layers :D

That'll be the fun part.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 02 November 2012, 20:54:16
Ah I'm really excited to program layers too. I'm so far down the list :S
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Fri, 02 November 2012, 21:02:24
.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Surreal Killa on Mon, 05 November 2012, 01:43:22
Mine arrived today, I haven't installed it yet though.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 05 November 2012, 01:53:25
Mine still havnt arrived :( hope their comming soon
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Mon, 05 November 2012, 02:21:37
Just be patient. bpiphany is a one man army, and SMD soldering them one by one takes time. There were also stock problems with atmega controllers, international shipping to you, and I believe you ordered pretty late in the process.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 05 November 2012, 02:24:47
Yes trust me i understand, I paid a while a go and i believe its shiped now just a waiting game on the post office. I still hope to have it sooner than later,though who wouldnt.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 05 November 2012, 04:42:44
Every order that has been paid has been shipped =) Yours exactly a week ago. The USPS has a history of being pretty slow.. =P I sure hope they turn up being so many.. but there should be no reason to start worrying yet.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 05 November 2012, 07:37:17
Based on payment time and receipt time, you should be getting yours in around Thursday if they have any consistency.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Tranquilite on Tue, 06 November 2012, 00:56:41
Wow, those finished PCBs are looking NICE. No wonder the Phantom thread has been so quiet the past month or so. This makes me almost wish I had a Filco.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Tue, 06 November 2012, 01:08:09
Out of curiosity, how many of these have gone out the door at this point?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 06 November 2012, 02:36:49
Whoo just got mine today!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_2970.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_2977.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_2982.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_2988.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_2992.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_2996.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_3000.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_3004.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_3009.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_3014.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_3019.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/IMG_3022.jpg)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alixinhzai on Tue, 06 November 2012, 06:35:35
I'm still waiting :))
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 06 November 2012, 06:40:48
I'm still waiting :))

I'm very curious on how this shipment will come out. I definitely never shipped anything anywhere close to Vietnam before. I got one on its way to Indonesia as well =)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: priyadi on Tue, 06 November 2012, 22:01:53
I'm very curious on how this shipment will come out. I definitely never shipped anything anywhere close to Vietnam before. I got one on its way to Indonesia as well =)

yeah, mine! no sight of it yet, though. anyway, before getting my hands dirty with it, is this thing brickproof?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 06 November 2012, 22:08:50
Been waiting two weeks in the USA
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 06 November 2012, 22:13:58
You are in the NE... wait some more :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: oneproduct on Wed, 07 November 2012, 10:04:39
I'm very curious on how this shipment will come out. I definitely never shipped anything anywhere close to Vietnam before. I got one on its way to Indonesia as well =)

yeah, mine! no sight of it yet, though. anyway, before getting my hands dirty with it, is this thing brickproof?

If you mess something up, you should still be able to get it to connect to a computer by passing a magnet over it (haven't tried, but read it a few times here I think), then you could flash it with the default firmware that bpiphany provided.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gameaholic on Wed, 07 November 2012, 17:12:04
Just got mine.  I was looking at the wiki but I am still not sure as to how to go about programming it.  Can I get a detailed step by step guide?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 07 November 2012, 17:13:51
'programming it' is a rather wide open question since technically you could write an entirely new firmware from scratch if you wanted to.

What is it you are trying to accomplish?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 08 November 2012, 02:24:41
'programming it' is a rather wide open question since technically you could write an entirely new firmware from scratch if you wanted to.

What is it you are trying to accomplish?
I haven't started yet, but if anyone feel up to it, please help out on the wiki page =) http://deskthority.net/wiki/AVR-Keyboard
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gameaholic on Thu, 08 November 2012, 23:12:55
'programming it' is a rather wide open question since technically you could write an entirely new firmware from scratch if you wanted to.

What is it you are trying to accomplish?

Well I was thinking of disabling the left windows key and switching the caps lock to a third control key.  I was also thinking of having the LEDs alternate lighting up with each keystroke. 

What does everyone else have planned?     
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Thu, 08 November 2012, 23:18:58
The major thing I'm hoping to accomplish is turning my caps lock key into a new layer key that converts IJKL into arrow keys with 789UO some configuration of Del, Home, End, PgUp, PgDn. Thus removing the need to ever move my right hand off of home row! It'll be glorious.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 08 November 2012, 23:19:06
The remapping is dead easy, recompiling afterward is harder.

The LED thing... I'm not even going there until I have my key map stuff solid with layers and other fun stuff.

I added some info to the wiki page bp started at DT re: flashing the firmware, and there's also a version of this on the GH wiki now.  http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=AVR-Keyboard

bpiphany - how do you want to handle changes to your firmware?  Should people be sending patches?  Is there a road map of stuff that you're already working on (or someone else is?) that will be rolled into the main branch?

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 09 November 2012, 02:08:11
The remapping is dead easy, recompiling afterward is harder.

The LED thing... I'm not even going there until I have my key map stuff solid with layers and other fun stuff.

I added some info to the wiki page bp started at DT re: flashing the firmware, and there's also a version of this on the GH wiki now.  http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=AVR-Keyboard

bpiphany - how do you want to handle changes to your firmware?  Should people be sending patches?  Is there a road map of stuff that you're already working on (or someone else is?) that will be rolled into the main branch?
Roadmap.. that is software engineering talk. I hate software engineering =P I've been tripping over a "term paper" I need to write for a class on the subject for years now. And that is pretty much all I have left before moving onto my bachelor thesis. So I am designing keyboard PCBs instead =D That course was a joke all the way though. I've never done anything more pointless I think...

But no, I don't really have a plan. Or rather my plan was that other people would take care of the firmware work =D Someone who actually knows about AVR programming. One thing that would be really sweet is a tool that could talk serially with the keyboard updating layout and macros and stuff on the fly. I'm no where near knowing how to accomplish that though. And there are some forks of the firmware already. I haven't looked much at them, but Tranquilite0 for example added layer functionality.

There are also other AVR firmwares that should be fairly "easy" to modify the board parameters on to be usable for this. After you get to know them that is. I haven't looked into any in that great detail.

Thanks for your help on the wiki =)



It would be interesting to know more about the controllers that behave strange. Does the problem occur on other computers as well? Is it limited to some specific OS? I never had any problems myself as far as I can remember. I'm not running the controller myself... But I am using another keyboard with the "same" firmware all the time. Some controllers were not shipped with the very latest firmware either. But if these problems stem from a firmware incompatibility I think it probably lies in the usb_keyboard parts not written by me (not that I am better than that, rather I couldn't possibly have written that myself and have no idea how to debug it either =)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Tranquilite on Fri, 09 November 2012, 15:39:51
I'm planning on re-implementing layer support this or next weekend. The firmware hasn't changed much from Teensy-Keyboard to AVR-keyboard so it shouldn't be that hard.

Unfortunately we won't ever get the more fun features such as Media keys, mouse Mouse keys, and NKRO over USB until someone figures out how to modify all of the usb enumeration stuff located in usb_keyboard. Low-level USB stuff is black-magic to me.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 09 November 2012, 17:38:12
I'm planning on re-implementing layer support this or next weekend. The firmware hasn't changed much from Teensy-Keyboard to AVR-keyboard so it shouldn't be that hard.

Unfortunately we won't ever get the more fun features such as Media keys, mouse Mouse keys, and NKRO over USB until someone figures out how to modify all of the usb enumeration stuff located in usb_keyboard. Low-level USB stuff is black-magic to me.
you might be able to talk to hazu about that as he has all of that in his firmware.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 09 November 2012, 17:49:03
I am inches away from having Hasu's code working.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 09 November 2012, 19:42:41
I am inches away from having Hasu's code working.
nice once yo udo think yuo could make a version for the phantom as well?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alixinhzai on Sat, 10 November 2012, 07:06:42
got mine today :) thank bpiphany
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: priyadi on Sat, 10 November 2012, 09:25:54
just got the package yesterday. unfortunately, the 10μF capacitor came off, and the pins on the sides were bent. no big deal, the pins straightened fine, and I'll try resoldering the capacitor tomorrow. i hope everything else are fine. it was probably not a good idea sending this off using regular mail to Indonesia, they hit it using a stamp!

bent pins:

(http://galeria.priyadi.net/Other/Keyboard-Stuff/i-Lnjrj2w/0/M/2012-11-10T21-49-13-35364-M.jpg)
(http://galeria.priyadi.net/Other/Keyboard-Stuff/i-xTRmH73/0/M/2012-11-10T21-49-30-35365-M.jpg)

capacitor came off:

(http://galeria.priyadi.net/Other/Keyboard-Stuff/i-PjpFNHc/0/M/2012-11-10T21-50-59-35370-M.jpg)

this is probably what caused the damage:

(http://galeria.priyadi.net/Other/Keyboard-Stuff/i-Rbpxcbj/0/M/2012-11-10T21-55-02-35372-M.jpg)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 10 November 2012, 11:02:12
Ouch that is some tough treatment... I hope it's ok otherwise. You probably don't even need the capacitor. All my previous keyboard designs have been without one. The Filco controller has one though. So I just put one on there for good measure =) And if you do re-solder it please note that the footprint is mirrored. The black band on the capacitor should be facing towards the atmega!!!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 10 November 2012, 11:24:51
nice bpiphany your on top of things!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WRXChris on Sat, 10 November 2012, 12:26:30
Mine arrived yesterday, thanks bpiphany!  I didn't have time to install it; I'll do that tomorrow and then start trying to figure out some coding.  I hope I can accomplish my goal and add my favorite features of the poker 2nd layer to my filco! :D
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: nullstring on Sat, 10 November 2012, 18:06:12
bpiphany,

Any thoughts on having these made for other keyboards? rosewill rk9000 and CM QFR?

Seems to me that a swede making controllers for a North America only product (rosewill) might be farfetched.
If you would release your schematic, maybe someone else could re-purpose your work for this product.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 10 November 2012, 18:13:48
I dont think the rosewill has a removable controller...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 10 November 2012, 19:15:42
I dont think the rosewill has a removable controller...

It does. It's a small daughterboard above the numpad.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 10 November 2012, 19:15:59
He did release the schematic actually... it's in one of his DT wiki links.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 10 November 2012, 22:34:17
So I got some of hasu's precious time and he helped me tremendously in getting tmk working with this controller.  Short answer:  works.

There are some interesting limitations that aren't in the documentation that I'd like to work on fixing but I'll let hasu  decide when to push the code to tmk proper in git.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Tranquilite on Sun, 11 November 2012, 00:25:03
Ok, so I just finished adding multiple layer support. You can find my fork of bpiphany's source here (https://github.com/Tranquilite0/AVR-Keyboard). Mapping different layers is pretty straightforward, but a few aspects could use an explanation anyway.

Unlike my previous layer implementation, the only place you need to change things is in the layout file (ansi_iso_jis.c for the Filco controller) where you can place the function key(s). I've also implemented the function key in a number of different ways:
KEY_FN_TOGGLE - Press to toggle between layer 0/1
KEY_FN_HOLD - Hold for layer 1, release for layer 0
KEY_FN_SWITCH - Mostly like FN_HOLD, but sends you to layer 8 when pressed, and returns you to the previous layer when released. This was made so that you can get to the KEY_FN_# keys which i placed in layer 8 which will let you switch to layers 0-7. Although you can place KEY_FN_# in any layer though make sure you don't make it so you can get stuck in a layer.

These function key implementations can also be mixed, though I don't really see much reason why.

Have fun!
PS. I haven't tested this on the custom Filco controller, but it works just fine on my Phantom.
PPS. I also added a windows batch file which will do the make clean operation, because I cannot in the life of me make WinAVR's find.exe work properly.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: nullstring on Sun, 11 November 2012, 01:57:05
He did release the schematic actually... it's in one of his DT wiki links.

Thanks. I missed that somehow.

If there are any left for purchase, I would like to order one of these.

Looks like it's a 8x18 matrix.
Does anyone know if the fullsize keyboards use the same size matrix?
My guess is that this controller should work just fine connected to a rosewill board using some of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Solderless-Breadboard-Jumper-Cable-Wire-Kit-Qty70-/230877929650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c165a0b2
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: 4LI4Z on Sun, 11 November 2012, 12:32:26
Ok, so I just finished adding multiple layer support. You can find my fork of bpiphany's source here (https://github.com/Tranquilite0/AVR-Keyboard). Mapping different layers is pretty straightforward, but a few aspects could use an explanation anyway.

Unlike my previous layer implementation, the only place you need to change things is in the layout file (ansi_iso_jis.c for the Filco controller) where you can place the function key(s). I've also implemented the function key in a number of different ways:
KEY_FN_TOGGLE - Press to toggle between layer 0/1
KEY_FN_HOLD - Hold for layer 1, release for layer 0
KEY_FN_SWITCH - Mostly like FN_HOLD, but sends you to layer 8 when pressed, and returns you to the previous layer when released. This was made so that you can get to the KEY_FN_# keys which i placed in layer 8 which will let you switch to layers 0-7. Although you can place KEY_FN_# in any layer though make sure you don't make it so you can get stuck in a layer.

These function key implementations can also be mixed, though I don't really see much reason why.

Have fun!
PS. I haven't tested this on the custom Filco controller, but it works just fine on my Phantom.
PPS. I also added a windows batch file which will do the make clean operation, because I cannot in the life of me make WinAVR's find.exe work properly.

why don't you just make a two-dimensional array out of the different layouts?
I think that would make it easier.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Sun, 11 November 2012, 15:11:05
Say, hypothetically, you flashed your hid_lib, and now when you plug the keyboard in, all that happens is the LEDs flash on and off really quickly and it appears no inputs are sent.
And that you can't get it to switch into the "I can be flashed" mode by hitting both shift keys?

Any recourse for me to salvage this?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 11 November 2012, 15:36:27
yeah, get it into the flashing mode by using a magnet.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Sun, 11 November 2012, 15:42:21
yeah, get it into the flashing mode by using a magnet.

Hooray!  Thanks!

Hardware hacker, I am not. 

Cheers.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Tranquilite on Sun, 11 November 2012, 15:50:29
why don't you just make a two-dimensional array out of the different layouts?
I think that would make it easier.
I can see how using a 2D array would have have been an effective way of managing layers, but at the same time it wasn't very hard to implement it the way I did, so I'm not sure how much "easier" it would have been. Regardless, the code works well enough for me.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 11 November 2012, 16:01:27
hasu's code is awesome and shockingly modular.  You can use the pjrc or lufa backend for USB handling, and at the front end there is converters and KB specific modules.  Gonna clean up the hid_liber section and ask him to push it into the main repo :)

For those that don't know, it's got layers (switchable and Fn style), media keys, switchable NKRO, probably some other stuff I haven't found yet.  :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 11 November 2012, 17:03:44
It should have mouse buttons as well as i believe we were talking about that in the DOX thread.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 11 November 2012, 17:05:28
Hmmmm, keyboard mouse scrolling...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 12 November 2012, 20:06:30
Okey, hasu has pushed my changes to his main line repo  https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard)

If you need any help with this specific controller support (hid_liber), feel free to ping me.  I don't want hasu to get buried as he doesn't even have one of these to test on.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: rainbowshy on Mon, 12 November 2012, 22:37:07
Ooh, I'd like one if there are leftovers.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 13 November 2012, 02:49:13
Wednesday is the last day of my three week work period. On Thursday I'm taking a personal day, excavating my belly button and watching season 4 of Merlin =D That leaves 20 days after that to round this business up.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tmk1207 on Tue, 13 November 2012, 04:52:54
waiting .... :D
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 13 November 2012, 07:34:34
Three weeks since payment, still waiting...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: oneproduct on Tue, 13 November 2012, 14:19:36
@Tranquilite
I tried your layer implementation on the custom Filco controller and it doesn't seem to work. The keyboard is no longer recognized when using the hex file that is generated. There's little that I can offer in terms of debugging info though.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 13 November 2012, 14:34:29
Three weeks since payment, still waiting...

Vietnam and Indonesia received their controllers. And you can always count on USPS - being slow... Yours was shipped the same day you paid. If it doesn't turn up we will of course work it out. It's probably just homeland security installing their keylogger. You should flash a new firmware when it arrives...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Tranquilite on Tue, 13 November 2012, 19:26:21
@Tranquilite
I tried your layer implementation on the custom Filco controller and it doesn't seem to work. The keyboard is no longer recognized when using the hex file that is generated. There's little that I can offer in terms of debugging info though.

That's very strange, it works just fine for my phantom, and I didn't do anything to the hid_liber specific parts of the code except add more layer arrays. I don't own a Filco either, so I really don't have anything to go on at this point.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 13 November 2012, 21:08:49
It's probably just homeland security installing their keylogger. You should flash a new firmware when it arrives...

If anyone employed by or appointed to the DHS had above a room temperature IQ and by extension had the ability to install a keylogger on it, I might be advise the same. But I guarantee its just customs being slow. Ive had many items coming from overseas enter the country within days of shipment, only to be delayed several weeks before the arrive in my hands.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 14 November 2012, 14:13:16
Ordered :D
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 14 November 2012, 16:21:34
@Tranquilite
I tried your layer implementation on the custom Filco controller and it doesn't seem to work. The keyboard is no longer recognized when using the hex file that is generated. There's little that I can offer in terms of debugging info though.


That's very strange, it works just fine for my phantom, and I didn't do anything to the hid_liber specific parts of the code except add more layer arrays. I don't own a Filco either, so I really don't have anything to go on at this point.
Ill get to testing for you tranquilite on one of my filcos I hope for the best
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 14 November 2012, 17:54:42
Aaaaaaand paid :D can't wait to get this.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gameaholic on Sat, 17 November 2012, 03:59:38
Got mine and it works fine as a plug and play replacement over USB but I couldn't get it to work over PS/2 which I want for NKRO.  I tried the usual uninstall current keyboard drivers from device manager, unplug, shutdown, plug in, reboot thing but nothing. 
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 17 November 2012, 04:02:55
I believe this needs to be used over usb because of how the controller is seen by the computer. I may be wrong though...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 17 November 2012, 06:22:25
I think the firmware of keyboards that work with a USB to PS2 controller needs to speak both "languages". This one only speaks USB, but since Hasu's code has been ported, that should be no problem anymore. I haven't tried it myself yet, but I think it is supposed to have NKRO over USB, among other features https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 17 November 2012, 09:57:20
TMK has NKRO if you compile the pjrc branch.  Then you need to enable NKRO with a double shift command, on my tab so I can't look it up.  Of course double shift is also changeable.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 17 November 2012, 10:19:59
TMK has NKRO if you compile the pjrc branch.  Then you need to enable NKRO with a double shift command, on my tab so I can't look it up.  Of course double shift is also changeable.

Yeah, I just compiled and tested the tmk_keyboard firmware. Noted that there was no NKRO and that it behaves a bit different if more than 6 keys are pressed. I didn't look too hard, but I didn't find the documentation on the double shift commands... I figured out how to get caps lock though =)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:09:09
It's all in common/command.c  and it's dbl-shift N for NKRO.  You also use the dbl-shift commands to layer change w/ lock.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tmk1207 on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:18:22
i can't wait :( i wanna a products on hand :p . But i'll wait new information of you <3
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:32:25
I just sent out PMs to the last persons on my list. If you feel you haven't got a PM and should have been on that list you'll need to contact me. MechKey, you don't seem to accept PMs I haven't ignored you...

Edit: And by the way, I am heading out for the night. So don't expect to hear back from me too soon again =)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tmk1207 on Sat, 17 November 2012, 18:17:06
I just sent out PMs to the last persons on my list. If you feel you haven't got a PM and should have been on that list you'll need to contact me. MechKey, you don't seem to accept PMs I haven't ignored you...

Edit: And by the way, I am heading out for the night. So don't expect to hear back from me too soon again =)

Pm'd :p
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Sun, 18 November 2012, 01:00:15
So I have NO idea where to even start with trying to program this thing once I get it, where do I start? 

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tmk1207 on Sun, 18 November 2012, 05:07:34
Paid :p
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Sun, 18 November 2012, 06:08:03
Paid :p

TMK, would you be able to put together a short how-to explaining how to build the firmware?
Thanks!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 18 November 2012, 08:21:02
TMK, would you be able to put together a short how-to explaining how to build the firmware?
Thanks!

Just to clear up some possible confusion... the tmk firmware is hasu (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3412)'s.  As for how to... pjrc has a quickie on getting the right compiler installed here (http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/gcc.html)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 18 November 2012, 08:40:54
Regarding the tmk_keyboard firmware. The NKRO seem to work pretty well. But I noticed a few bugs.


This was all on Ubuntu 12.10
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 18 November 2012, 09:39:24
1) I had no ISO board to double check that the row/col on that key was correct.
2) Not quite sure what key that is... it works in standard mode, but not NKRO?  That in itself is a little odd.
3) ya, dunno what the failure mode should be there
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 18 November 2012, 11:30:07
2. Backslash! I meant backslash... And yes, that was a bit odd.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Sun, 18 November 2012, 15:13:26

Just to clear up some possible confusion... the tmk firmware is hasu (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3412)'s.  As for how to... pjrc has a quickie on getting the right compiler installed here (http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/gcc.html)

Was that PJRC guide directed at my question?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 18 November 2012, 16:15:05
tjweir asked for how to build the firmware.  Your question is too vague to address, honestly.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: fl0w3n on Sun, 18 November 2012, 16:41:37
tjweir asked for how to build the firmware.  Your question is too vague to address, honestly.

Ah, boo.  Well, I guess I'll just wait until I get it and figure it out on my own then. 
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: xavierblak on Sun, 18 November 2012, 22:38:16
Nice! Paid. I was pretty excited when I saw the pm with the payment details come through.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Tranquilite on Sun, 18 November 2012, 23:16:47
So after a lot of tinkering, I was finally able to get the hid_liber build of hasu's firmware to work with my Phantom. Unfortunately the one problem that keeps it from being fully functional is that the 17th column doesn't work. After a few hours of pulling my hair out trying to fix it, I found that it is because the bit-shift operators don't work properly on 32bit integers where you need to shift more than 16 bits (at least for the case of the teensy).
For example:
Code: [Select]
1<<14 = 0b00000000000000000100000000000000
1<<15 = 0b11111111111111111000000000000000
1<<16 = 0b00000000000000000000000000000000

As you can see, shifting 15 bits causes all the upper bits to be set, and shifting 16 bits does nothing at all.
What this means is that I need to deal with the 16th and 17th columns differently because of the way they are stored in hasu's firmware :(

If anyone has any graceful ways to deal with this, let me know.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 18 November 2012, 23:38:16
Glad to head your making progress though sorry i havnt tested your other firmware yet.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 19 November 2012, 07:23:29
I don't know f it has been solved already but media keys? Below is an excerpt from a document I found stating some key codes if that is of any help:
http://i.imgur.com/G3Ucw.png

I have been messing around in the code but I truly have no idea what I am doing :P
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 19 November 2012, 07:24:54
If you're using avr-keyboard, then no.  Media keys actually require a lot more than the right key codes.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Mon, 19 November 2012, 08:07:24
What else is there? I'd love to figure out media keys!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 19 November 2012, 09:01:24
Again, hasu's tmk has it... https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/common/keyboard.c  line 180 on, and then the stuff that calls is in https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/common/host.c which then bounces you to the lufa or pjrc specific implementation of dealing with USB...  pjrc being this stuff:  https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/protocol/pjrc/usb_extra.c

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Mon, 19 November 2012, 09:30:56
Oh, thanks. Sorry I didn't read. ;) Will use it for my Phantom.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Batmann on Mon, 19 November 2012, 14:40:53
Not sure whether my question is stupid or not,
are there any leftovers?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tmk1207 on Mon, 19 November 2012, 17:42:39
Not sure whether my question is stupid or not,
are there any leftovers?

Send a message to: http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=6408
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Tranquilite on Wed, 21 November 2012, 00:57:44
I sent Hasu a message about that problem with bit-shifting, and he suggested that it might have to do with unintentional integer promotion, so I tried explicitly casting the 1 in 1<<c to an unsigned long and now everything works great. Never would have of thought of that in a million years...

Once I clean things up I am going to see if I can get Hasu to add Phantom support to his git repo.

I suppose I should also make it so that there are keymaps for both standard and 7-bit layouts as well...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Wed, 21 November 2012, 03:31:57
I've been working through the great information in the thread concerning the configuration for this gadget, specifically the detailed walkthrough given by oneproduct. Using that, I performed a quick test to change my caps lock to a Ctrl and flash it to the device. Great!

Then, craving layers, I grabbed the TMK stuff from github and after reading the tutorial and poking through the makefile, attempted to load it with doubleshift-break for the bootloader, followed by "make flip" to deploy. This also worked! I'm typing on the keyboard now flashed with TMK.

I then went through and designed my second layer, however now I run into a problem--the keyboard isn't recognized as an ATmega32U4 anymore. I can't open up the device in FLIP, nor deploy. Is there a detail that I've missed somewhere?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 21 November 2012, 08:03:53
The double-shift straight into the boot loader was a bpiphany specific trick.  For a hardware trick, the controller has a reed switch responsive to a magnet, that is how I have been jumping to bootload.  For tmk it's dbl-shift and then press Pause.  Of course this only works if you have Pause in your keymap.  Look in common/command.c for all the other dbl-shift commands in tmk.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Wed, 21 November 2012, 09:35:15
Yeah--I had actually changed my bootloader command  to be both Alts/Shifts/Ctrls just like someone else in the thread (maybe also oneproduct?) and then of course it changed when I switched loaded TMK onto the board.

Now, when I use the TMK command (still doubleshift-pause, I didn't change it) the the keyboard stops responding and windows stops detecting it as expected; however the keyboard seems to be detected as "HID Keyboard Device" instead of ATmega32U4. This is preventing FLIP from detecting it.

Anyone else trying to use TMK on windows?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 21 November 2012, 09:42:00
I am, and use the magnet trick... testing the other method now.  Worked no problem.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Wed, 21 November 2012, 09:45:34
I don't have any magnets :( I'll keep working at it and see what I can come up with.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Wed, 21 November 2012, 10:26:26
Allrighty, went and picked up a magnet, and amazingly this did the trick.  After waving it over the controller windows played the device-removed sound, and upon opening up device manager it appeared again as ATmega32U4. This allowed me to flash again as normal.

Guess I'll be keeping this thing around my desk!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 23 November 2012, 12:24:53
Got mine safely in Canada!

Now you guys gotta help me program it ^^

(http://i.imgur.com/NTxfP.jpg)

This should work with a Filco Camo right?

Yep.  Just installed one into a Camo.  Works fine.

(Attachment Link)

I'm trying to install mine onto a camo and mine won't fit?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 23 November 2012, 13:22:57
The pins may be tilted a bit inwards, you should be able to get it in there.. I have had them all mounted in my TKL while programming/testing them. If your model isn't completely differently built of course, but I think they should all be the same. Put one side in and try to wiggle the other side in after that.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 23 November 2012, 13:38:15
(http://i.imgur.com/q6xXf.jpg)

Brute force bent some of the pins, got it. Thanks!!!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gizzard on Sat, 24 November 2012, 23:14:34
Got it working :-)

using oneproduct's windows instructions and alaricljs's fork to hasu's code.

Works great and the mapping is easy to read/change.

Now i just need to figure out what to map... the default is media keys, sleep, and calc... hmmmm
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 25 November 2012, 10:21:49
LOL, that's just an adaptation of my AHK stuff... figured it'd be a nice demonstration of what can be done rather than a bone stock layout.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hluo87 on Sun, 25 November 2012, 14:22:35
will it work for KBT pure?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 25 November 2012, 14:27:51
will it work for KBT pure?


KBT Pure has the controller soldered to the PCB. This daughterboard fits ONLY on the Filco TKL.

If you are looking for a 60% keyboard with programmable ATmega32u4 controller, you will want to get in on the GH60 keyboard, once they are tested and into the group buy phase. You can see more about it here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.0).

And welcome to Geekhack! Say goodbye to your wallet. You are now broke.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 25 November 2012, 15:26:18
Hey guys I still need someone to help me program this :P I've got a layout I can show you if someone wants to shoot me a PM.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Mon, 26 November 2012, 22:37:31
Read the last few pages Sifo, they're really helpful!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hluo87 on Wed, 28 November 2012, 20:01:15
will it work for KBT pure?


KBT Pure has the controller soldered to the PCB. This daughterboard fits ONLY on the Filco TKL.

If you are looking for a 60% keyboard with programmable ATmega32u4 controller, you will want to get in on the GH60 keyboard, once they are tested and into the group buy phase. You can see more about it here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.0).

And welcome to Geekhack! Say goodbye to your wallet. You are now broke.
lol thanks man,
i finally end up buying a race.
i need arrow keys
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hluo87 on Thu, 29 November 2012, 09:51:16
i am interested!!!!!!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gizzard on Fri, 30 November 2012, 12:37:03
Anybody have luck with V+ and V- keyboard calls?  media keys and everything else are working...

Strange
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: litster on Thu, 06 December 2012, 21:57:34
Final round of Deskthority Awards voting has begun.  If you like your Filco tenkeyless custom controller from bpiphany, please go to the links below to vote for bpiphany and the controller mod for these Deskthority Awards:

Vote Filco Tenkeyless Custom ATmega32u4 controller for Best Input Device Mod Award (http://deskthority.net/deskthority-awards-2012-f34/best-input-device-mod-2012-t4543.html#p86828)

Vote bpiphany for The Best Deskthority Forum Contributor Award (http://deskthority.net/deskthority-awards-2012-f34/best-deskthority-forum-contributor-2012-t4547.html#p86832)

[attach=1]

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Fri, 07 December 2012, 11:16:18
Anybody have luck with V+ and V- keyboard calls?  media keys and everything else are working...

Strange

I'm using Hasu's code, and my volume up and down keys work without issue. Your other stuff works though?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 07 December 2012, 11:18:36
Anybody have luck with V+ and V- keyboard calls?  media keys and everything else are working...

Strange
Im using firmware Tranquilite modified from Hazu's code for me and everything works here.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 07 December 2012, 11:21:32
I still have the stock firmware on mine. *shame*

Does Tranquilite's have support for PS/2? With the stock firmware it only works over USB.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 07 December 2012, 11:22:37
I still have the stock firmware on mine. *shame*

Does Tranquilite's have support for PS/2? With the stock firmware it only works over USB.
It has NKRO if that way you mean i think it might only work over USB though which i believe is a standard feature of Hazu's firmware
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 07 December 2012, 11:29:42
My PC motherboard is weird. When it boots, I can't choose anything on the GRUB menu (which OS to boot) using a USB keyboard. Only PS/2. But when I plug my Filco with HLD controller into the PS/2 port, it's not recognized.

Just means I need to hurry up with my new PC build. I have all the components, just need to get it done.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 December 2012, 11:31:25
... feature of Hazu's firmware ...

ok, that's 3 times in a row so it's obviously not a typo.   Dude's handle is hasu not Hazu.


jd - I've never seen a PS/2 firmware for atmega's. 
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 07 December 2012, 11:33:09
ok, that's 3 times in a row so it's obviously not a typo.   Dude's handle is hasu not Hazu.
me bad :( id get own wrong if hadnt been using it for years. hasu I apologise.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gizzard on Fri, 07 December 2012, 14:07:19
ok, figured it out.. usb hub was being weird.. Volume stuff works now..

this may seem silly.. but what else are people macro-ing up for their keyboards?  Other than media keys and calculator.. im surprising out of ideas :-p  Is it easy to macro application launches (i would suspect no)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 07 December 2012, 14:18:44
ok, figured it out.. usb hub was being weird.. Volume stuff works now..

this may seem silly.. but what else are people macro-ing up for their keyboards?  Other than media keys and calculator.. im surprising out of ideas :-p  Is it easy to macro application launches (i would suspect no)

Idk i working on making my KPAD a macro pad though so ill let you know what i come up with.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 December 2012, 14:22:27
App launches you would generally take care of in the OS, so AHK for Windows and whatnot.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 07 December 2012, 14:27:27
App launches you would generally take care of in the OS, so AHK for Windows and whatnot.
I did it on the KPAD pretty easily though it is a tad more easy to configre
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Index on Fri, 07 December 2012, 18:06:05
Hey does anyone know the HID code for eject in OSX/Windows7?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 December 2012, 20:45:42
Apparently (http://boredzo.org/blog/archives/2007-05-22/virtual-key-codes) the Apple Eject key does not produce a HID code... hmmm. weird.

For Windows it is likely that some keyboards are using the Eject symbol for the 'MEDIA SELECT' keycode.  Which is MC_MSEL in hasu's firmware.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: dorkvader on Fri, 07 December 2012, 20:52:35
Hey does anyone know the HID code for eject in OSX/Windows7?
I thought eject was just F15 (or one of the F keys anyway) in OSX, though I could be wrong on that.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 07 December 2012, 20:53:32
I thought so too, but I haven't used my family's Mac in ages.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 December 2012, 21:01:20
Just picked through google and BootCamp has a driver you install in Windows to make the Eject button do useful things.  Like eject.

Aside from that some old Apple technical reference with all the keycodes for their board had NO code for eject.

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 December 2012, 21:03:39
Ooooh, found an AHK script that's supposed to enable the eject key... reading it now to decipher how.

edit:

So the AHK script uses a DLL to hook into things, but the basic idea is that the Eject key gets it's own HID endpoint (device) and does not send a key code at all.  This matches up with all the other information I found (and mentioned above).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Fri, 07 December 2012, 22:22:38
This commit seems to add EJECT HID usage.
I don't know how this works in actually in windows/ osx.

https://github.com/tufty/tmk_keyboard/commit/97d7ca33cea562291429bd0536850a4eb20d2a00
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 07 December 2012, 23:52:26
Voted and stuff... hmm I should actually program my controller :\ been really lazy lately.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 08 December 2012, 06:44:40
This commit seems to add EJECT HID usage.
I don't know how this works in actually in windows/ osx.

https://github.com/tufty/tmk_keyboard/commit/97d7ca33cea562291429bd0536850a4eb20d2a00
I like your software hasu, and I just wanted to say thanks.

Do you know how hard it would be to add macros? Defining a string, and then make a key press activate a function which outputs the string, character by character, with at a 50ms interval or something?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Index on Sat, 08 December 2012, 17:36:27
This commit seems to add EJECT HID usage.
I don't know how this works in actually in windows/ osx.

https://github.com/tufty/tmk_keyboard/commit/97d7ca33cea562291429bd0536850a4eb20d2a00

My friend figured out how to add in the eject for OSX. It's the 16 bit consumer code 0x00E9. He added it as KC_EJECT. We haven't tested it in Windows yet so we'll see about that.

I've also added profiles to the firmware. Basically it just enables you to switch to different permanent layouts with their own set of layers.


Better explanation:
[
// Default Profile 0
[default layer 0, layer 1,..., layer 7],
// Profile 1
[default layer 0, layer 1,..., layer 7],
.
.
.
// Profile N
[default layer 0, layer 1,..., layer 7]
]


The fork on github is https://github.com/callenrosario/tmk_keyboard. It's not finished and it only works for the HID Liberation so far (still need to refactor some code and fix the other firmwares).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Tranquilite on Sun, 09 December 2012, 00:23:58
My PC motherboard is weird. When it boots, I can't choose anything on the GRUB menu (which OS to boot) using a USB keyboard. Only PS/2.
I recommend going into the bios and turning on "legacy keyboard support", or "legacy USB support". If either of those two options are already on, then try turning them off, if that doesn't work/those options are not available, then proceed to get a new computer :P
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Sun, 09 December 2012, 23:31:19
I've ween  working on 'new keycodes' this several weeks to support new features including macro like you described. But I'm being stuck for a while and struggling now.

Recently I came across this very neat firmware for kinesis project which already has fancy features like macro and mousekeys and full programmability with virtual machine. Porting the firmware to this controler might be very interesting.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37991.0
 

This commit seems to add EJECT HID usage.
I don't know how this works in actually in windows/ osx.

https://github.com/tufty/tmk_keyboard/commit/97d7ca33cea562291429bd0536850a4eb20d2a00
I like your software hasu, and I just wanted to say thanks.

Do you know how hard it would be to add macros? Defining a string, and then make a key press activate a function which outputs the string, character by character, with at a 50ms interval or something?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Sun, 09 December 2012, 23:40:56
Thanks. I'll looking into your repository later.

0x00E9? You mean 0x00B8 in report.h?
Looking HID usage specification I'm expecting a code for eject should be 0x00B8 or 0x00CC.


My friend figured out how to add in the eject for OSX. It's the 16 bit consumer code 0x00E9. He added it as KC_EJECT. We haven't tested it in Windows yet so we'll see about that.

I've also added profiles to the firmware. Basically it just enables you to switch to different permanent layouts with their own set of layers.


Better explanation:
[
// Default Profile 0
[default layer 0, layer 1,..., layer 7],
// Profile 1
[default layer 0, layer 1,..., layer 7],
.
.
.
// Profile N
[default layer 0, layer 1,..., layer 7]
]


The fork on github is https://github.com/callenrosario/tmk_keyboard. It's not finished and it only works for the HID Liberation so far (still need to refactor some code and fix the other firmwares).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Index on Mon, 10 December 2012, 01:54:45
Oh yeah, I mean 0x00B8. =)

Thanks. I'll looking into your repository later.

0x00E9? You mean 0x00B8 in report.h?
Looking HID usage specification I'm expecting a code for eject should be 0x00B8 or 0x00CC.


My friend figured out how to add in the eject for OSX. It's the 16 bit consumer code 0x00E9. He added it as KC_EJECT. We haven't tested it in Windows yet so we'll see about that.

I've also added profiles to the firmware. Basically it just enables you to switch to different permanent layouts with their own set of layers.


Better explanation:
[
// Default Profile 0
[default layer 0, layer 1,..., layer 7],
// Profile 1
[default layer 0, layer 1,..., layer 7],
.
.
.
// Profile N
[default layer 0, layer 1,..., layer 7]
]


The fork on github is https://github.com/callenrosario/tmk_keyboard. It's not finished and it only works for the HID Liberation so far (still need to refactor some code and fix the other firmwares).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 10 December 2012, 16:31:02
I've ween  working on 'new keycodes' this several weeks to support new features including macro like you described. But I'm being stuck for a while and struggling now.

Recently I came across this very neat firmware for kinesis project which already has fancy features like macro and mousekeys and full programmability with virtual machine. Porting the firmware to this controler might be very interesting.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37991.0

Looks interesting. It seems to be made for the atmeaga32 already as well. Looking forward to whatever happens. Not that it matters for many applications, but my Cherry board allows for the intervals at which the characters are activated to be adjusted. Would this be possible with this as well?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: DrSchlock on Mon, 10 December 2012, 16:33:49
I don't suppose there are any more of these laying around? :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: KennyR on Sat, 22 December 2012, 04:42:18
I DID IT!

My first SMD-soldering job, with simple tools and after looking at some tutorials about soldering.
It came out pretty nice in my opinion, but damn, that atmega is a *** to solder...  ;D

Anyway, if people without SMD-soldering experience want to try this, here is a big tip: GET SOME FLUX! I'm serious, it's like magic.

Some pics, sorry for the bad lighting, I don't understand cameras  :confused:

(http://i.imgur.com/4EPZJh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TjVRDh.jpg)

I tested the controller with the code from Bpiphany, the man himself, and everything works.
Now I'll try to make it work with PS/2 and different layers: QWERTY layer, COLEMAK layer and DVORAK layer.
Wish me luck  :D
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 22 December 2012, 23:29:39
God job =) Nice to see someone else build one for a change... First one I know of to have done it. I think I am up to at least 100 by now. To me the ATmega is no problem at all. I just point solder them 2 leads at a time. There is a video somewhere.. The crystal on the other hand wasn't even designed to be hand soldered. I would say that is the trickiest part.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 22 December 2012, 23:37:50
bpiphany, with over 100 of those things, you should have had a laser cut solder paste stencil and a hot air reflow station. You could crank them out like a boss. Not that you aren't already, soldering those things by hand. :D
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 23 December 2012, 03:37:13
Actually I think even someone else should have had a stencil, someone with a pick and place machine... Problem was I didn't know how many I would really sell. Ordering a lot of extra PCBs was not a big cost. Ordering components for them all at the same time would have been a bigger risk. And I also underestimated the time it would take per controller =P Any future drop in replacement controllers will have other components (among them AT90USBxxx) that will require re-flow soldering. So by then there will be a stencil at least. Perhaps me hand placing everything though.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: simkev on Wed, 26 December 2012, 06:40:23
God job =) Nice to see someone else build one for a change... First one I know of to have done it. I think I am up to at least 100 by now. To me the ATmega is no problem at all. I just point solder them 2 leads at a time. There is a video somewhere.. The crystal on the other hand wasn't even designed to be hand soldered. I would say that is the trickiest part.

100+ and still counting! Thats impressive bro.  :eek:
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 26 December 2012, 07:45:54
I've sent 105 to be exact (and 20 DIY kits). Two of them were lost in transit, and I've got 4 more sitting around. One PCB mysteriously disappeared. I probably put it somewhere safe... I want to keep a bare PCB and a completed unit for myself. I ordered 160 PCBs and components for 150, so there are still some work to do, and some controllers to sell =)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Wildcard on Thu, 27 December 2012, 01:00:43
Good work on this bpiphany, love my controllers so far :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Fri, 28 December 2012, 10:53:19
Just popping in to say that I don't think I'll switch to any other keyboard any time soon--when using other keyboards over the holidays I kept finding myself reaching for the Fn key I have on the CapsLock. Made me a little sad to find it missing, ha.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 29 December 2012, 15:32:48
I just got my HID liberation device to 'crash' or something like that.  I haven't spent much time typing on it until now, and it seemed like once I started typing really fast, it somehow refused the "unpress" the shift key.  Windows was selecting all the text on the screen and the only fix was to unplug it.  Anyone else had that problem?  I have the firmware that came installed "from the factory"
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 29 December 2012, 19:47:31
I had to change the dbl-shift to boot loader command to avoid crashing when typing at speed.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 29 December 2012, 20:49:31
Hmmm..  Perhaps I am paying the price for not reading this thread.  What is this command you speak of?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 29 December 2012, 20:56:11
Holding both shifts on the stock firmware will kick the Atmega into the bootloader.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: moogatronic on Sun, 30 December 2012, 10:03:51
I don't suppose there are any more of these laying around? :)

No doubt! I'm curious about this as well. I would love to enhance my filco's with this!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Sun, 30 December 2012, 12:14:00
I keep getting alt or shift key stuck from time to time. Hate me for not reading the thread, but I am hoping someone could point me to where someone is working on firmware. Just link me a post or wiki page if you have the time for that. Or flame. doesn't matter to me =p.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 30 December 2012, 13:03:43
Sure it isn't a case of pressing both shifts at the same time? Windows can apparently act a bit strange if the keyboard simply disappears...  If you haven't updated the firmware I don't think that is your problem though. I'm not sure I had implemented that when I sent yours =) Does the keyboard still function, only with shift pressed?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 30 December 2012, 13:38:41
I'm pretty sure that I didn't press both shifts, since I was typing normally.  My shift got stuck.  The gf doesn't seem to be having problems, but she types at about half my speed when I'm warmed up.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 30 December 2012, 13:53:38
You can always have a try at hasu's tmk firmware. It was always my hope that others more experienced in programming would come along and clean that part up...

I don't actually use the device myself that much, but I use my firmware on other keyboards. The only thing I ever noticed is chattering. But then I am not using Windows either...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: oneproduct on Thu, 03 January 2013, 10:17:36
Just flashed to hasu's firmware with Index's profile addition and it works great. I've got a profile for Colemak and for Qwerty that each have a function layer similar to this:

(http://i.imgur.com/gZSkp.png)
Ignore the Esc and `~ which were there for first layer on 60% keyboard layouts. I also added media keys to the arrows and lower 3 of the sixpack.

The only thing that doesn't seem to be working for me of what I've tried is KC_PEQL which is the numpad equals key. The rest of the numpad keys seem to work fine. I actually used regular numbers instead of numpad numbers in the embedded number pad because then I can also hold shift to get the symbols associated with them (!@#$%^&*().

I'll put up a little tutorial for people who are daunted by fiddling with this kind of stuff. Hopefully late tonight when I get back from work, otherwise this weekend. I have a feeling that most people aren't really making the best use of the HID Liberation device because they aren't playing with the firmware. I certainly know that I wasn't until just now.

Edit: Just for the sake of amusement. The magnet that I've been using to trigger the reed switch is one of these:

(http://content.etilize.com/500/1011915994.jpg)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: tjweir on Thu, 03 January 2013, 10:30:20
Just flashed to hasu's firmware with Index's profile addition and it works great. I've got a profile for Colemak and for Qwerty that each have a function layer similar to this:

Ignore the Esc and `~ which were there for first layer on 60% keyboard layouts. I also added media keys to the arrows and lower 3 of the sixpack.

The only thing that doesn't seem to be working for me of what I've tried is KC_PEQL which is the numpad equals key. The rest of the numpad keys seem to work fine. I actually used regular numbers instead of numpad numbers in the embedded number pad because then I can also hold shift to get the symbols associated with them (!@#$%^&*().

I'll put up a little tutorial for people who are daunted by fiddling with this kind of stuff. Hopefully late tonight when I get back from work, otherwise this weekend. I have a feeling that most people aren't really making the best use of the HID Liberation device because they aren't playing with the firmware. I certainly know that I wasn't until just now.

Looks like a sensible layout, nice work.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bisl on Fri, 04 January 2013, 09:59:42
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/gZSkp.png)


I love you for using ESDF and not WASD.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 04 January 2013, 13:02:05
Just managed to get this to goof again.  My 'Y' key suddenly stopped working.  The keyboard still worked although I didn't rigorously test the rest of the keys.  Unplugging fixed it.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Sat, 05 January 2013, 20:50:01

Could someone with ISO keyboard try this firmware and see if ISO specific keys work well? This firmware includes fix for ISO suggested from bpiphany.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1033342/hid_liber_pjrc.hex

Key next to left Shift and next to Enter are said ISO keys(In UK layout they will be \ and #).

This firmware outputs ANSI backslash keycode for ISO key next to Enter, I'm interested in whether this keycode works or not with ISO layout on Mac/Windows.

And I believe this firmware will also work on ANSI keyboard without problem, can someone try?

Plz let me know the result, your layout and OS.

Thanks in advance.


If you are interested about fix, see this patch to https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/keyboard/hid_liber
Code: [Select]
diff --git a/keyboard/hid_liber/keymap.c b/keyboard/hid_liber/keymap.c
index 55fe872..e0ba1e7 100644
--- a/keyboard/hid_liber/keymap.c
+++ b/keyboard/hid_liber/keymap.c
@@ -136,7 +136,7 @@ static const uint8_t PROGMEM keymaps[][MATRIX_ROWS][MATRIX_COLS] = {
     GRV,   1,   2,   3,   4,   5,   6,   7,   8,   9,   0, MINS,  EQL, BSPC,  INS, HOME, PGUP, \
     TAB,   Q,   W,   E,   R,   T,   Y,   U,   I,   O,   P, LBRC, RBRC, BSLS,  DEL,  END, PGDN, \
     FN1,   A,   S,   D,   F,   G,   H,   J,   K,   L, SCLN, QUOT,       ENT,                   \
-    LSFT, NO,   Z,   X,   C,   V,   B,   N,   M, COMM, DOT, SLSH,      RSFT,         UP,       \
+    LSFT, NUBS, Z,   X,   C,   V,   B,   N,   M, COMM, DOT, SLSH,      RSFT,         UP,       \
     LCTL, LGUI, LALT,             SPC,                RALT, RGUI, APP, RCTL, LEFT, DOWN, RGHT),

 /*  EXAMPLE ISO keymap, see the NUBS and NUHS keycodes
@@ -172,7 +172,7 @@ static const uint8_t PROGMEM keymaps[][MATRIX_ROWS][MATRIX_COLS] = {
     GRV,   1,   2,   3,   4,   5,   6,   7,   8,   9,MUTE, VOLD, VOLU, BSPC,  INS, HOME, PGUP, \
     TAB,   Q,   W,   E,   R,   T,   Y,   U,   I,MSTP,MPLY, MPRV, MNXT, MSEL,  DEL,  END, PGDN, \
     FN1,   A,   S,   D,   F,   G,   H,   J,   K,   L, SCLN, QUOT,       ENT,                   \
-    LSFT, NO,   Z,   X,CALC,   V,   B,   N,   M, COMM, DOT, SLSH,      CAPS,         UP,       \
+    LSFT, NUBS, Z,   X,CALC,   V,   B,   N,   M, COMM, DOT, SLSH,      CAPS,         UP,       \
     LCTL, LGUI, LALT,             SPC,                RALT, RGUI, APP, RCTL, LEFT, DOWN, RGHT),
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 06 January 2013, 07:56:36
Before I do, what was wrong with ISO before? It worked just perfect so I don't know just quite what to look for.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 06 January 2013, 08:37:24
The ISO key next to left shift was defined as null in hasu's code. Me and him have had a little conversation on what keycodes ISO keyboards really send =) Now the key should work as expected producing <>| for us with a Swedish layout.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Glissant on Sun, 06 January 2013, 08:43:34
And I believe this firmware will also work on ANSI keyboard without problem, can someone try?

Plz let me know the result, your layout and OS.

Thanks in advance.

Working just fine with my ANSI layout on windows 8 :).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 06 January 2013, 09:23:34
Oh, I fixed that already. Yes, it worked for me, don't know if you made the same changes though. It was discussed in the other thread, wasn't it?

Edit: Here is what I did back then.
http://i.imgur.com/MdvRd.png
Then I remove and add those places in the key map tables further down where they are assigned their values, so that the rows aren't shifted one place to the left/right.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Sun, 06 January 2013, 23:08:43
Thanks, guys.
In fact I wanted to know whether ISO key by Enter works with USB HID keyocde for ANSI backslash(0x31). This is the point of this test.

See Footnote 2 on page 59 of HID usage spec, this indicates that the ISO key shall use 'Non-US hash'(0x32) keycode. http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/Hut1_11.pdf
But ISO/JIS keyboards in the market seem to use ANSI backslash code for its ISO key instead of Non-US code. And existent OS's works well with that code probably.

I pushed this fix to github and maybe one binaries can work on both ANSI and most of ISO keyboard now, except for JIS, Brazilian and Korean keyboard with more extra keys.

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 06 January 2013, 23:25:08
I had helped 4LI4Z out with an ISO board and used the 2 non-US codes listed in your keycode.h.  He reported back that it worked fine.  This is why I sent you this:

Code: [Select]
* Tenkeyless keyboard default layout, ISO & ANSI (ISO is between Left Shift
* and Z, and the ANSI \ key above Return/Enter is used for the additional ISO
* switch in the ASD row next to enter.  Use NUBS as keycode for the first and
* NUHS as the keycode for the second.
on lines 91-94 of https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/keyboard/hid_liber/keymap.c (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/keyboard/hid_liber/keymap.c)

as part of the last update I sent.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Mon, 07 January 2013, 07:06:45
That quoted comment is still completely right. And of course, you can still use NUHS for that key by editing your keymap.
I think use of NUHS(Non-US Hash) code for the ISO key is more legit than ANSI backslash code. But it looks like ANSI backlash code works for the ISO key too.

I believe last fix doesn't anything with ANSI or ISO keyboard. Just added NUBS(Non-US Backslash) code for ISO key between Left Shift and Z.

https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/commit/02b6b70e76ea3c4820d4f14bdd705230b6f824f1

I had helped 4LI4Z out with an ISO board and used the 2 non-US codes listed in your keycode.h.  He reported back that it worked fine.  This is why I sent you this:

Code: [Select]
* Tenkeyless keyboard default layout, ISO & ANSI (ISO is between Left Shift
* and Z, and the ANSI \ key above Return/Enter is used for the additional ISO
* switch in the ASD row next to enter.  Use NUBS as keycode for the first and
* NUHS as the keycode for the second.
on lines 91-94 of https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/keyboard/hid_liber/keymap.c (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/keyboard/hid_liber/keymap.c)

as part of the last update I sent.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 07 January 2013, 08:05:10
I don't get it. Did you do anything differently than what I did?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Mon, 07 January 2013, 08:15:26
I don't know what you did exactly. Can you post  patch or your repository URL?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 07 January 2013, 08:53:21
I don't know what you did exactly. Can you post  patch or your repository URL?

http://i.imgur.com/MdvRd.png
Then I remove and add those places in the key map tables further down where they are assigned their values, so that the rows aren't shifted one place to the left/right.

I just changed the fields marked yellow to the values in the image. Then those keys can be defined in the same way in the layout matrices further down in the same file. I am not at home atm, which is why I can only use that image which I posted in the other thread. I can post the file/changes when I get back home. The changes are as you can see very trivial though, which is why I don't understand what the fuzz is about? Is working ISO all you wanted or did I miss something?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: 4LI4Z on Mon, 07 January 2013, 08:53:28
Quote
I had helped 4LI4Z out with an ISO board and used the 2 non-US codes listed in your keycode.h.  He reported back that it worked fine.

Yes, it works fine, I use the firmware on my filco as my daily driver without any issues.

To make it ISO-compatible you have to add NUBS and NUHS to the keymap, thats how it looks like:

Code: [Select]
KEYMAP(\
    ESC, F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, F7, F8, F9, F10, F11, F12, PSCR, SLCK, BRK, \
    GRV, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, MINS, EQL, BSPC, INS, HOME, PGUP, \
    TAB, Q, W, E, R, T, Y, U, I, O, P, LBRC, RBRC, NUHS, DEL, END, PGDN, \
    CAPS, A, S, D, F, G, H, J, K, L, SCLN, QUOT, ENT, \
    LSFT, NUBS, Z, X, C, V, B, N, M, COMM, DOT, SLSH, RSFT, UP, \
    LCTL, FN1, LALT, SPC, RALT, RGUI, APP, RCTL, LEFT, DOWN, RGHT),

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Mon, 07 January 2013, 09:38:06
@damorgue, ah, Phantom also support ISO layout but tmk_keyboard doesn't have code for ISO for now. You changed Phantom keymap file to support ISO keyboard. I get it now.
Your fix will be helpful for ISO Phantom people, send me patch or pull request when you have spare time.

OK. What I wanted to know is where BSLS(ANSI backslash) keycode is work for ISO key(next to Enter) or not. That key should have NUHS as HID spec indicates so. If you can edit keymap and build your own binary you should use NUHS. But If one binary with default keymap supports both ANSI and ISO keyboard it'll be helpful for someone who can't or don't want to build their own firmware. This is just the point of my last fix.

The key between Left Shift and Z has no alternative code other than NUBS. No question here.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 12 January 2013, 16:58:38
One of these just showed up at my door today!  October 22, 2012 to January 12, 2013... Twelve weeks.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 12 January 2013, 17:51:35
At least it showed up ! Glad it did too.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 12 January 2013, 17:53:46
Heh, it was assumed lost in the mail and the replacement came more than a month ago!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: csimi on Sun, 13 January 2013, 15:42:11
Is there a better way to flash the firmware than having Java installed for Flip? I guess Windows restricts the choices?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: hasu on Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:38:02
Check dfu-programmer.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: inlikeflynn on Sat, 19 January 2013, 15:07:42
One of these just showed up at my door today!  October 22, 2012 to January 12, 2013... Twelve weeks.

my lost in the mail one also just showed up today. October 21, 2012 to January 19, 2013....2 days short of 3 months.
WTF USPS on these deliveries  :-\
Title: Re: [GB] ~20 left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 24 January 2013, 00:30:10
I soldered another few controllers yesterday. There are around 20 left all in all. There are fewer left than the number of persons signing up in the interest check and never replied later. I don't mind that, but anyone is welcome to lay their hands on the ones that are left.
Title: Re: [GB] ~20 left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: aggiejy on Sun, 31 March 2013, 22:56:31
Well, I finally got around to trying my DIY kit.  First time doing such small surface mount soldering.  I was able to successfully flash the firmware and it works great, except it's a persistant "up" key press I guess.  No clue how to troubleshoot that... but the soldering exercise was worth it anyway.  Good thing I got a pre-assembled one as well. :)
Title: Re: [GB] ~20 left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: aggiejy on Mon, 01 April 2013, 15:42:02
Never mind! I unplugged it and plugged it back in (duh) and it works perfect! Was actually quite a bit of fun to do the DIY kit! Wish I had bought two. :)
Title: Re: [GB] ~20 left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 01 April 2013, 15:42:52
Yeah, don't forget to cycle the board after you flash the firmware. :D
Title: Re: [GB] ~20 left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: n0rvig on Thu, 04 April 2013, 22:19:25
Anymore of these available?
Title: Re: [GB] ~20 left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 04 April 2013, 22:24:25
biphany definitely has some.

BTW biphany, did you build all of them with reed switches?  I can't remember if mine had one or not, but the magnet doesn't seem to be working.
Title: Re: [GB] ~20 left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 05 April 2013, 06:27:58
biphany definitely has some.

BTW biphany, did you build all of them with reed switches?  I can't remember if mine had one or not, but the magnet doesn't seem to be working.


n0rvig will be getting the very last one I have built at the moment. I'm going to build myself a perfect specimen to keep =D After that there will only be DIY kits available, 14 or so of them. And then this model is history...
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 05 April 2013, 17:10:25
BTW biphany, did you build all of them with reed switches?  I can't remember if mine had one or not, but the magnet doesn't seem to be working.

I totally forgot to answer your question =P Yes, I ended up including the reed switch with every controller. First I was only going to do it for the 50 first or so. It is probably the most sensitive component on there, the long glass tube. Since I didn't know how well they would handle transport they were meant as sort of a bonus. I'm pretty sure I tested to reset all controllers I built with a magnet...
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 05 April 2013, 20:36:16
Thanks,  I probably need a stronger magnet.  I just don't want to take it apart. Those Filco cases are a pain. :)
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 12 April 2013, 07:34:41
Well, I bricked my controller...
Used the magnet to get it into boot mode and Flip was able to erase the device but refuses to program it.  Has anyone successfully programmed theirs?
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 12 April 2013, 07:48:37
Well, I bricked my controller...
Used the magnet to get it into boot mode and Flip was able to erase the device but refuses to program it.  Has anyone successfully programmed theirs?

Try switching back and forth between flash mode and EEPROM mode in Flip a few times, before using flash mode to program it. That has worked for me.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 12 April 2013, 07:54:09
That wasn't it.  For some reason Flip forgot what kind of AVR it was supposed to talk to.

Using my Epsilon firmware on my Filco now.  Few bugs to work out but it's working, which is amazing in of itself considering how very different the two designs are.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 12 April 2013, 08:36:11
Just to give you moral support  ;D ;D ;D

I lack technical skills ever to do this kind of thing, but it's really what I would be happy to do had I the skills!

(Attachment Link)
Image courtesy of fruktstund (at least I hope that is ok..)

Update: 2012-10-20
Group buy is sort of closed. Asking for order confirmations at the moment. Half of the ordered PCBs have been built into complete controllers. There may be left overs after all interested have been supplied.

A wiki page with instructions for the controller have been created at http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_Instructions

There is also another one with solder yourself instruction, with a name confusingly alike http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_DIY_Instructions

Please contribute there if you've got information to share =)

What is this all about?
Ever wanted your Filco tenkeyless to have a programmable controller? Thought it sounded a bit insane to build a Phantom only for this reason? What if you could just simply replace the stock controller daughter board in your keyboard with a programmable one? Why not I say.

With this replacement daughter board you will basically have a Teensy that plugs conveniently into your Filco tenkeyless.  There are a number of different keyboard project with code running on the Teensy that should be easily adopted to work with this controller.

The ATmega32u4 chip
This is the same chip as on the Teensy2.0. It is a 16MHz 8-bit AVR from Atmel.

It has 32kB of flash to hold the bootloader, firmware code and key matrix information. The flash memory is read only during normal operation, so it can only be altered when loading code onto it through the bootloader. Both the stock bootloader from Atmel and the open source bootloader from LUFA take 4kB of the flash memory. The very basic code for the Phantom with one single layer key matrix takes almost 9kB. This leaves more than 18kB for custom layers and macros or whatever.

There is 2.5kB of SRAM memory, this is used to run the program and store variables during runtime. It is like normal RAM memory erased when the power is cut.

There is also 1kB of EEPROM memory available, this can be used to store data when the power is off. So any recorded macro or on the fly remappings should be stored here.

Flashing the firmware
Almost all code for AVRs you will find is written in c and compiled to hex files. It is these hex files that are flashed to the chip. The flashing is done through a program running on your computer, talking to the chip via the bootloader. I haven't tried this in Windows but there are applications to do this that should be easily maneuvered. I will look into this and make sure there are no problems. In Linux I've got everything under control.

The TeensyLoader that the Teensys use will unfortunately not be available since that is PJRC proprietary. This is only a slight drawback. It may be more user friendly, and their bootloader is much smaller, but all in all this doesn't make a big difference.

Compatibility
I have based this design on my "gen2" Filco tenkeyless. I believe there are no differences compared to the "gen1" keyboard except the higher quality PCB. Electrically everything is the same. I cannot guarantee that it will work for everyone though since there may be differences I don't know about. If your keyboard turns out to be incompatible this would of course be handled somehow. Passing it on to someone else for example, or in the worst case returning it for a refund.

The Filco main PCB that I have reverse engineered is a "gen2" marked "CST-F87/88/89/91-MB V1.1" 2010-11-09, and the controller is marked "Tenkeyless PCBA Rev 2.1-ESD" 2010-08-24.

There are pictures of the stock controller in this thread http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=6557 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=6557)

Pricing
Pre-soldered controller $20
Solder yourself kit $20 (free shipping)
Shipping $4

Shown interest:
I've got all names as of 2012-10-20 stored away. Still sending out PMs a couple a day.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bakageta on Mon, 15 April 2013, 18:39:41
I have based this design on my "gen2" Filco tenkeyless. I believe there are no differences compared to the "gen1" keyboard except the higher quality PCB. Electrically everything is the same. I cannot guarantee that it will work for everyone though since there may be differences I don't know about. If your keyboard turns out to be incompatible this would of course be handled somehow. Passing it on to someone else for example, or in the worst case returning it for a refund.

The Filco main PCB that I have reverse engineered is a "gen2" marked "CST-F87/88/89/91-MB V1.1" 2010-11-09, and the controller is marked "Tenkeyless PCBA Rev 2.1-ESD" 2010-08-24.

I just wanted to confirm that this works great in a gen1 Filco. My daughter board was a CST-TN-DAUGHTER v1.2 dated 2008-04-11.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Mackem on Sun, 02 June 2013, 07:03:12
Any of the pre-soldered ones left? How do I actually fit this to the keyboard? Is it just a case of plugging it in?
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: csimi on Sun, 02 June 2013, 07:24:01
Any of the pre-soldered ones left? How do I actually fit this to the keyboard? Is it just a case of plugging it in?

Not sure if there are any left, but installing is that easy.
Pull, push. No soldering/etc required.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Mackem on Sun, 02 June 2013, 07:30:53
Ah right. If there is any pre-soldered ones left, I'll definitely buy one.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: pandather on Sun, 02 June 2013, 10:12:07
I'd get a pre soldered as well... Also, how hard would it be to solder? I kinda need one as my controller died. :(  I also need a new pcb, where can I get one?
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 02 June 2013, 10:14:40
I'd get a pre soldered as well... Also, how hard would it be to solder? I kinda need one as my controller died. :(  I also need a new pcb, where can I get one?

You killed your controller AND pcb?  Wow dude.  Anyway best bet is probably a Phantom.  It fits nicely into a Filco case :)
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: aggiejy on Sun, 02 June 2013, 10:56:35
I'd get a pre soldered as well... Also, how hard would it be to solder?

I've done 4 of them, and it's pretty hard... especially if you don't have a good iron and a really small tip and precision tweezers.  Mine have all worked, but they haven't looked as pretty as the one bpiphany did that I also have. :)
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 02 June 2013, 11:38:53
^ agreed.  After doing 8 epsilons (essentially the same parts as the HIDlib) I'm pretty good at, but it required getting professional tools and suffering a few epic fails.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sun, 02 June 2013, 12:02:46
I'd get a pre soldered as well... Also, how hard would it be to solder?

I've done 4 of them, and it's pretty hard... especially if you don't have a good iron and a really small tip and precision tweezers.  Mine have all worked, but they haven't looked as pretty as the one bpiphany did that I also have. :)

+1

These are pretty much same parts as GH60 PCBs. That's why I recommended against soldering yourself, but still there were plenty of DIY PCBs ordered in that GB.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 02 June 2013, 15:01:03
there still are components for about ten controllers left. I don't really feel like doing more soldering myself. It takes me too long. But kits are available, and if someone wants to buy the lot for building and passing them on I'm sure we can agree on a good price for them.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Mackem on Sun, 02 June 2013, 15:22:53
there still are components for about ten controllers left. I don't really feel like doing more soldering myself. It takes me too long. But kits are available, and if someone wants to buy the lot for building and passing them on I'm sure we can agree on a good price for them.

Aww! I haven't got a clue how to solder otherwise I would've. Never mind then :(
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: pandather on Mon, 03 June 2013, 13:11:23
I have an 888D and a  0.2 mm tip... I was looking at a phantom PCB... Would it fit a QFR case? I have a custom plate, so that's not needed.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: SmallFry on Mon, 03 June 2013, 13:14:01
The QFR doesn't use the same controller pattern. Biphany is coming out with a ATMega32u2 version for the QFR soon however.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 03 June 2013, 13:31:45
I have an 888D and a  0.2 mm tip... I was looking at a phantom PCB... Would it fit a QFR case? I have a custom plate, so that's not needed.

If you're going with a Phantom, you don't need the controller this thread is about.  Yes it fits in the QFR case with some minor mods.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Mackem on Mon, 03 June 2013, 13:50:10
Anyone got a spare one that they can sell already soldered?
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 03 June 2013, 14:13:10
Anyone got a spare one that they can sell already soldered?

i can solder you one, but i don't  now if there is somebody in the uk to do that so you can save on shipping.



and if there are more people who are interested, I can get  bpiphany's lot and solder them.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Mackem on Mon, 03 June 2013, 14:21:52
I am extremely interested in a pre-soldered one :)
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: pandather on Mon, 03 June 2013, 16:42:54
Where could I buy a Phantom PCB?  Seems as the GB is over... :(  I might have to get this and where could I buy a Filco or QFR PCB?
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Mackem on Fri, 07 June 2013, 09:41:33
So when you flash the firmware to these, is there anything you have to do prior to or after flashing?
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 June 2013, 09:43:37
You wave a magic wand* in front of it to get it into flashing mode.

* magnet - it's got a reed switch on it.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Mackem on Fri, 07 June 2013, 09:48:44
So how does the flashing procedure go from start to finish?
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 07 June 2013, 09:58:11
So how does the flashing procedure go from start to finish?

Plug in keyboard
hold a powerful magnet over the board (empty area above arrow keys)
you should hear Windows disconnect the USB device as if you had unplugged it
remove magnet

then proceed with the reprogramming using the Atmel FLIP tool.  For more detail see my "Programming KMAC2" thread
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 09 June 2013, 00:00:12
Quick question: if I drop a brand new HID Liberation Device into my Filco Majestouch-2 TKL, it should have some stock firmware already preloaded with a basic layout?  Meaning the standard stock Filco layout?  Or do I need to program it first to assign values to keys?
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sun, 09 June 2013, 00:13:19
bpiphany was nice enough to flash a default firmware so you can plug it in and start using right away. But since he doesn't have anymore presoldered ones, you're SOL :p
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gnubag on Sun, 09 June 2013, 00:19:21
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40363.0

i am currently looking to get all controllers that are left and solder them for people if you want one and can wait for me to find enough people.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sun, 09 June 2013, 00:27:04
I believe bpiphany had already shipped them out... to yours truly...
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: gnubag on Sun, 09 June 2013, 00:38:29
haha funny thing you said that.

i did not buy them, so forget everything. l0l
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 09 June 2013, 00:55:55
bpiphany was nice enough to flash a default firmware so you can plug it in and start using right away. But since he doesn't have anymore presoldered ones, you're SOL :p

Oh no, I have one on the way :)  Hence why I asked.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 09 June 2013, 00:55:55
I really, really like my HID lib device, and I know WFD does some good work.  Not exactly sure what ^ post was, but I believe this is a good thing.
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 09 June 2013, 04:28:59
I would actually be able to flash the loose chips if I was kind enough. I have an adapter board that holds the ATmega chips =) I just didn't think about that with the DIY kits... And the whole idea is to flash new things onto them anyway.

WhiteFireDragon bought the DIY kits I had left. I have a couple of extra PCBs without components. I need to keep some myself for reference, but in a pinch it would be possible to squeeze a few more controllers out...
Title: Re: [GB] ~10 DIY kits left - Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: bueller on Sun, 09 June 2013, 07:42:04
I would actually be able to flash the loose chips if I was kind enough. I have an adapter board that holds the ATmega chips =) I just didn't think about that with the DIY kits... And the whole idea is to flash new things onto them anyway.

WhiteFireDragon bought the DIY kits I had left. I have a couple of extra PCBs without components. I need to keep some myself for reference, but in a pinch it would be possible to squeeze a few more controllers out...

PM'ed WFD :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
Post by: cgbuen on Thu, 20 June 2013, 00:54:54
I finally stopped procrastinating after 3 months of owning this (just because I thought it was too daunting) and got around to programming my Filco. It was actually incredibly easy, and it's pretty awesome now with some simple changes to my layout. Here are some key things:

1. hasu's keymap documentation: https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/doc/keymap.md
2. hasu's build documentation: https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/doc/build.md
3. One of oneproduct's notes that you'll have to do just before you get to the "Program Controller" step of hasu's build documentation: [Edit: just noticed this step is in fact a part of hasu's documentation, and I somehow conveniently skipped over it, causing me some confusion for a while]
6. Install the bootloader driver
   a. Plug in your keyboard.
   b. Press both shifts. Windows will detect the bootloader but will fail to find drivers for it. Note that this will probably make your keyboard and mouse inputs weird because it thinks you're still holding down shift. For me I found the easiest way to fix this is to press the Windows button and write "keyboard" in the search box then open the "On-Screen Keyboard" program. Typing anything while it's open seems to fix it.
   c. Open the Control Panel.
   d. Select Device Manager and you'll see the bootloader listed among the devices.
   e. Right-click on it and select Update Drivers.
   f. Browse to where you installed FLIP and there is a folder called "usb" inside of it. Point the driver updater to that.

But I'm pretty worried about something - I might not be able to re-program it... When I was on the stock firmware, I was tired of entering that weird bootloader mode when I mistyped question mark by hitting both shifts, so I modified config.h. I changed MOD_BIT(KC_LSHIFT) | MOD_BIT(KC_RSHIFT) into becoming MOD_BIT(KC_ESCAPE) | MOD_BIT(KC_PSCREEN) | MOD_BIT(KC_SCKLOCK) | MOD_BIT(KC_PAUSE) because I thought making the key combo more complicated would make it harder for me to accidentally press it. But now, when I hit the new combination, nothing seems to happen. Anyone see how to fix this issue?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 20 June 2013, 08:35:36
Get a magnet.  The controller has a reed switch on it for entering the boot loader.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: hasu on Thu, 20 June 2013, 17:23:31
I might not be able to re-program it... When I was on the stock firmware, I was tired of entering that weird bootloader mode when I mistyped question mark by hitting both shifts, so I modified config.h. I changed MOD_BIT(KC_LSHIFT) | MOD_BIT(KC_RSHIFT) into becoming MOD_BIT(KC_ESCAPE) | MOD_BIT(KC_PSCREEN) | MOD_BIT(KC_SCKLOCK) | MOD_BIT(KC_PAUSE) because I thought making the key combo more complicated would make it harder for me to accidentally press it. But now, when I hit the new combination, nothing seems to happen. Anyone see how to fix this issue?

Ah, I couldn't think of that mistyping, it is just likely case. But it doesn't seem to be harmful because LShift+RShift+/ combo  causes just displaying help message on console of hid_listen.

To kick upt bootloader try to plug in with pressing 'b' key if BootMagic is enable.

To change command key combination it needs some hassle at this time. MOD_BIT() can take only modifier key code. If you want to use other key than modifier it is not useful. In this case see converter/adb_usb/config.h. This is not easy way though.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: cgbuen on Thu, 20 June 2013, 21:50:23
Alright, interesting to know both things! I was able to re-program it with the magnet trick, and I'm debating whether or not I should keep a bad combination just so that the only way to get into the bootloader is with the magnet.

Here's my layout (second layer is the SSK numpad, QFR media keys + some extras):
(http://assets.christopherbuenaventura.com/img/keyboards/filco-layout.png)

Thanks guys!! :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: cgbuen on Mon, 24 June 2013, 13:51:05
Alright, now something strange has happened..

It's using that exact layout I showed in the image above. There's an MX Lock on the FN key, which had used "ACTION_LAYER_MOMENTARY". It was working perfectly at home (Windows 7).

But here on a couple of machines at work (Windows 7 and OSX), hitting the FN key takes me into the second layer, but hitting it again release the MX Lock doesn't take me back to the original layer - I just remain on the second layer. I have to unplug and replug my keyboard with the MX Lock un-depressed to get back to the original layer.

(Additionally, I'm having some really weird/different issues with Num Lock between Windows 7 and OSX.)

Does anyone see what issue I have here now? Do I need to re-flash or something? There shouldn't need to be anything I have to install to get it to work, right - wasn't that the point of the controller?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: hasu on Mon, 24 June 2013, 18:54:33
It sounds like you suffer from this key stuck bug.
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/issues/26

I think the bug should be fixed in tmk_keyboard / keyboard / hid_liber / matrix.c.

You can consult this patch for phantom by Wraul.
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/commit/a505dafe59e617844da403e2616900fecaf4a3dd

EDIT: I will fix it later. Though I can't test cause I don't have this controller.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: hasu on Mon, 24 June 2013, 19:38:38
Fixed debouncing bug which causes key stuck at commit:
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/commit/681e0194501aba4e6234f478d2c96d428b1223b5.

Please test it and give feedback. Thanks.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: cgbuen on Mon, 24 June 2013, 23:36:05
I'm not sure that it worked - I brought it back home to the original computer I flashed it on + one more machine (Windows Vista), and somehow it didn't work (even though it was fine before). Then, I re-made it with the new matrix.c, and got the same result.

I also tried re-seating the controller, thinking maybe the commute did something to it, but still nothing seemed to happen.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: hasu on Tue, 25 June 2013, 02:28:29
Hmm, my commit seems to introduce a new bug :(

I couldn't find the wrong line just from seeing source.
Can anyone find wrong line in this commit? Maybe bit operaion?

https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/commit/681e0194501aba4e6234f478d2c96d428b1223b5

If the new bug isn't found in a few days I'll remove(revert) this commit from repository?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: Tranquilite on Wed, 26 June 2013, 17:18:46
Perhaps on line 162 of matrix.c...
Code: [Select]
bool curr_bit = *row_pin[row] & row_bit[row];should be changed to
Code: [Select]
bool curr_bit = rows & (1<<row);
I'm just comparing differences in matrix.c in phantom vs hid_liber as I don't have an hid_liber either...

EDIT: Actually, I think curr_bit and prev_bit might need to be swapped.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: hasu on Wed, 26 June 2013, 19:57:07
Tranquilite, Thank you for suggestions.

hmm, those seems to be ok for me. I'm still lost in debug completely.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: hasu on Wed, 26 June 2013, 20:06:19
cgbuen, I'd like to comfirm your situation correctly.

You mean, your keyboard didn't work even before you flased new firmware? Or it got into not working after you flashed?

Old firmware without my fix sitll works on your keyboard?

I'm not sure that it worked - I brought it back home to the original computer I flashed it on + one more machine (Windows Vista), and somehow it didn't work (even though it was fine before). Then, I re-made it with the new matrix.c, and got the same result.

I also tried re-seating the controller, thinking maybe the commute did something to it, but still nothing seemed to happen.

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 27 June 2013, 12:40:15
Is it possible to program the controller to allow for foreign characters as one of the function layers?  Say I have English ANSI on my keycaps and a secondary language.  Could make, say, Scroll Lock lock in a new function layer then and be able to type the foreign characters on each keycap as I assign them?  Or is that more of a software-level thing that I'd have to do within Windows / another OS of choice?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 27 June 2013, 12:53:41
If it supported macros (doesn't yet) then you might be able to do alt-code input macros for what you are looking to accomplish.  But really, you need to do that at the OS level for a full language set change.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 27 June 2013, 13:08:09
I thought it does allow macros.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 27 June 2013, 13:11:15
If there is a firmware supporting that I am not aware of it.  Of course the hardware is capable of it :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: yeeeargh on Thu, 27 June 2013, 13:22:05
tmk firmware has macro support since a few months. but beware... not all utf characters are accessible through alt-codes...
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 27 June 2013, 21:12:32
hasu told me about it yesterday. I had no idea, but it does support macros now. You sort of have to copy over a snippet from the hhkb code to the phantom if you want to use it there though, and the documentation is a bit lacking in places but it is there.

https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/doc/keymap.md#23-macro-action
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: cgbuen on Thu, 27 June 2013, 21:36:03
cgbuen, I'd like to comfirm your situation correctly.

You mean, your keyboard didn't work even before you flased new firmware? Or it got into not working after you flashed?

Old firmware without my fix sitll works on your keyboard?

It worked properly when I first flashed it at home for a couple of days. But somehow when I took it to my office, it stopped working, and it stayed broken when I brought it back home (even after trying to re-flash with old and new versions).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: hasu on Thu, 27 June 2013, 23:39:09
Thank, cgbuen. I'm not sure your problem was caused by hardware or my firmware. maybe hardware?

OK. Now, I'd like to ask someone else to confirm whether the latest firmware(with my fix) works or not. Can someone check it?

cgbuen, I'd like to comfirm your situation correctly.

You mean, your keyboard didn't work even before you flased new firmware? Or it got into not working after you flashed?

Old firmware without my fix sitll works on your keyboard?

It worked properly when I first flashed it at home for a couple of days. But somehow when I took it to my office, it stopped working, and it stayed broken when I brought it back home (even after trying to re-flash with old and new versions).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: bueller on Thu, 27 June 2013, 23:45:12
Ughhh so cut I missed out on this, just bought a Filco TKL. Any plans to do a second run?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: hasu on Fri, 28 June 2013, 00:04:26
Thanks for the link, damorgue.

Yes my firmware has a kind of support for macro now. But I think  my implementation of macro function may not be what most of you guys expect at this time.

- No "on-the-fly" macro recording. and I have no plan to implement this at this time. (ic07 is working on this function with his ergodex firmware, IIRC)
- Syntax is not user friendly. You'll need the  capability of read and write C lang to define macro :(  I didn't make decision on final design yet and  want to improve this.
- Not enough documentaion. I'll add the info later.

Suggestions are welcome.

I'll appreciate if following thread is used for my firmware specific. I noticed this thread is on Group buys section now :)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41989.0
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: hasu on Fri, 28 June 2013, 09:45:55
Thank, cgbuen. I'm not sure your problem was caused by hardware or my firmware. maybe hardware?

OK. Now, I'd like to ask someone else to confirm whether the latest firmware(with my fix) works or not. Can someone check it?

yeeeargh checked the latest firmware and confimed it works.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41989.msg944352#msg944352

cgbuen, I think you probably have a problem on your hardware.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: Poom on Mon, 01 July 2013, 07:26:51
is there left overs? just want one?!?!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: remedyhalopc on Mon, 01 July 2013, 21:05:33
How do I reset this thing to a stock ANSI layout?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 01 July 2013, 21:45:02
How do I reset this thing to a stock ANSI layout?

flash the firmware that is in github that should be the stock ansi layout
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: remedyhalopc on Mon, 01 July 2013, 21:46:47
How do I reset this thing to a stock ANSI layout?

flash the firmware that is in github that should be the stock ansi layout

You're gonna need to break that down a little more simple. Github?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 01 July 2013, 22:14:35
How do I reset this thing to a stock ANSI layout?

flash the firmware that is in github that should be the stock ansi layout

You're gonna need to break that down a little more simple. Github?

https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/keyboard/hid_liber

this one. just make a hex file out of it and flash it.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: remedyhalopc on Mon, 01 July 2013, 23:23:40
Okay. Sounds simple.

I'm trying to do this right now, and I am beyond confused.  :confused:

I'm following the build instructions and I am lost as soon as the terminal is brought up. I don't understand the command, and I don't understand what I'm supposed to change with the command...

This is all very confusing to me, and I'm super frustrated. I have no idea what I'm doing. I just want a standard ANSI layout. Explain this to me like I'm five.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 01 July 2013, 23:32:20
well first you have to get a compiler and change the name of "makefile.pjrc" to "makefile"
then go to the console and "make"

if you are lazy: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98044719/hid_liber_pjrc.hex (that is the stock file from the tmk github which is the standard ansi layout)
I just compiled it.

after that flash the .hex file with flip.


(if you never used flip)
choose the ATmega 32U4 device
go with USB connection
select the hex file (file -> load hex file)
check all boxes on the left and hit run.
wait
? ? ?
profit.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: remedyhalopc on Mon, 01 July 2013, 23:39:33
Thank you for the HEX file!

Flip isn't recognizing that the board is plugged in though. What do?

It looks like Windows 7 is installing a driver that makes it look like a normal keyboard, and when I try to update it will tell me that it's determined that I have the best driver.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 01 July 2013, 23:53:35
maybe my instructions are missing something l0l (ya I forgot that you (probably never used a custom controller on your computer before, so my instructions are for after you did the driver part and want to flash the firmware with custom layout)

try this


I had tried to install FLIP on Windows first but when I ran into problems tried moving to Ubuntu. However, trying to install it there proved even more troublesome and I ended up coming back to Windows. Here are some instructions to get people started:

1. Go to http://www.atmel.com/tools/FLIP.aspx and download FLIP. For most people you'll want the 2nd one on the list which is "FLIP 3.4.7 for Windows (Java Runtime Environement included)".
2. Install FLIP.
3. Plug in your keyboard and press both Shifts. Windows will detect the bootloader but will fail to find drivers for it. (@bpiphany Assuming it's not super obvious when we look at... whatever it is we use to configure this, could you inform us how to change this to something even more obscure? Sometimes I'll press both shifts for a split second when I realize I'm holding down the "wrong" shift, i.e. not the one opposite to the key I need to press so I switch to hit the other and may accidentally hit both)
4. Go to Device Manager and you'll see the bootloader listed among the devices.
5. Right-click on it and select Update Drivers.
6. Browse to your FLIP folder and there is a folder called "usb" inside of it. Point the driver updater to that.
7. Run FLIP (you'll have a shortcut on your desktop if you chose that during install).
8. Press the first icon from the left (looks like an integrated circuit) or you can pick Device > Select from the menu.
9. Select ATmega32U4 from the list.
10. Press the second icon from the left (looks like a USB cable) or you can pick Settings > Communication > USB.
11. Press Open at the prompt and you're connected!

Now if someone can give me a hint about how to actually setup the hex files to load onto it I'd be happy to hear it! :D
If you're feeling super generous and just want to set up a Colemak layout file for me, even better! http://colemak.com/ (just the letters and caps lock to backspace are different relative to Qwerty)

Edit: Looked at the Github repo for this, saw the makefile and was thinking to myself, "woohoo, this should be easy!"
I moved over to Ubuntu, fiddled with the avr_keyboard.c file and changed the keys I needed easily enough and tried to run make... but alas no, I need avr-gcc which has several dependencies which have dependencies of their own! http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/install_tools.html
I was working through them slowly but at the very end I had a version mismatch and was consumed with sadness! Might have a stab at this again a bit later, but easy answers would be nice as well!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 00:08:45
nothing happens when i hold both shifts down after I plug in the keyboard. Windows doesn't even try to install a driver visually, but HID Keyboard Device appears in DeviceManager.


What should the bootloader look like in DeviceManager?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: gnubag on Tue, 02 July 2013, 00:11:12
so you are up to step 6.

now you are at step 7 and flash the hardware.
(there should be nothing physical happen when you hold/press both shift keys.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 00:13:06
but Windows tells me that the file in the usb folder is not correct, or it will tell me that Windows has determined that my current driver is the best.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: gnubag on Tue, 02 July 2013, 00:25:11
hmmm...
in my device manager it only says HID Keyboard Device.

just try if you can access the controller with flip.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 00:28:48
I get an exception saying that Flip can't connect.

If Windows would let me install the driver, I'd be done. :|

Does the magnet trick reset the whole thing so it's stock ANSI?

I may try that... Do I just hold a magnet up to the glass diode?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: gnubag on Tue, 02 July 2013, 00:39:09
I get an exception saying that Flip can't connect.

If Windows would let me install the driver, I'd be done. :|

Does the magnet trick reset the whole thing so it's stock ANSI?

I may try that... Do I just hold a magnet up to the glass diode?

the magnet only brings it into the flash mode (which is the same that holding both shifts do)

and since there is no firmware on the ATmega chip there would be no stock layout.

maybe you can try it on another computer? or wait until somebody (hasu, bpiphany, or so) know what is the problem and can help you.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 00:40:55
I'll give it another try in the morning.


Thanks for the help! Really appreciate it.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 02 July 2013, 02:52:17
The magnet does a hardware reset. Holding both shifts relies on the firmware currently loaded supporting it and running fine. The magnet is the safer option. I never used FLIP myself, but make sure you've got the correct ship selected and everything else (which I don't know about...)

If you just want a regular ANSI layout you can try the file hid_liber_ANSI_ISO_JIS.hex here as well https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/simple_keyboard/tree/master/binaries
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:04:06
Okay, I used a magnet and now most of the keys seem to be disabled.

pressing any number of keys results in random outputs.

pressing K makes a 3, D reults in a Fn press, 2 results in a F1, U results in a 7, etc.


I do not know what to do.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:07:53
*I don't know the right answer*, but doesn't the magnet erase the firmware and prepares the controller for new firmware flash?  If you have used the magnet and have not flashed a new firmware file, perhaps that's why you're seeing strange stuff?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:10:29
Maybe. Holding both shifts down didn't stop windows from installing drivers though.

So now I'm just lost. Trying another computer.

"The program can't start because libusb0.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem".

I've reinstalled 3 times, each time rebooting. :(
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:10:57
Nothing but direct commands from flip will erase the firmware.  The magnet simply tells the controller to reboot into the bootloader and wait for further commands.  You then use flip to load in a new firmware.

It sounds a whole lot like you installed a chip-compatible firmware that was compiled for a different matrix.  Of course that's assuming you reset the controller after the magnet trick.  I've never tried fiddling with the KB while the controller is in the bootloader, it shouldn't do much tho.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:13:19
Nothing but direct commands from flip will erase the firmware.  The magnet simply tells the controller to reboot into the bootloader and wait for further commands.  You then use flip to load in a new firmware.

It sounds a whole lot like you installed a chip-compatible firmware that was compiled for a different matrix.

I haven't installed anything. Flip hasn't been able to make a USB connection to the keyboard to begin with.

More errors after I close the first one.

AtLibUsbDfu.dll not found.

Could not load dynamic library.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:13:22
"The program can't start because libusb0.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem".

Is this an error message from flip?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:14:32
Those three are, yes. They appear after I try to make a connection via USB.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:18:20
Hmmm, inside Program Files/Atmel/Flip ???/usb  are some drivers.  I don't remember which one I installed and I am having trouble finding the docs about it.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:25:33
Good news. Pressing caps lock activates 3# so the trace and switch work, it's just mapped differently.


If only I could get this to work.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:28:49
I'm scared to do anything with my controller...  Seems like documentation is sparse, many of the firmware versions /tools are in beta stages, and reverting back to stock is not straightforward :(
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:33:21
Good news. Pressing caps lock activates 3# so the trace and switch work, it's just mapped differently.


If only I could get this to work.

Again,  this sounds like you loaded a firmware meant for a different matrix, for instance the Phantom instead of the hid liberator.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: yeeeargh on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:41:20
Good news. Pressing caps lock activates 3# so the trace and switch work, it's just mapped differently.


If only I could get this to work.

let's take it slow:
1. open the device manager and plug in your keyboard.
2. if it shows up as a normal keyboard then try the magnet/both shift keys to make it jump to its bootloader.
3. in the device manager a new device should show up and the keyboard should disappear then.
4. if the new device has the right drivers a new group should named "Amtel USB Devices" should show up with a device called "ATmega32U4".
5. if the drivers are missing you should see the device with some warning or something (don't know exactly right now).
6. the drivers are in the flip directory (something like C:\Program Files (x86)\Atmel\Flip 3.4.7\usb).
7. after installing you should see the "ATmega32U4" in the device manager and you can flash your firmware with flip.

hope this helps a bit. when you encounter problems at one of those points state them
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 19:17:15
Magnet got me working the boatloader.


Flashed the new hex without a hitch.

Problem? Caps Lock still doesn't work. I don't know what to do anymore.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 02 July 2013, 19:18:10
Maybe it's a hardware issue then?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 02 July 2013, 19:53:23
Hold down the caps and hit the right shift.  If this turns on caps, you are running my map which appears to be the stock hid_liber map for tmk if you don't change anything at all.

Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: yeeeargh on Tue, 02 July 2013, 20:14:04
Magnet got me working the boatloader.


Flashed the new hex without a hitch.

Problem? Caps Lock still doesn't work. I don't know what to do anymore.

which firmware are you using right now? the one from bpiphany (https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/simple_keyboard/blob/master/binaries/hid_liber_ANSI_ISO_JIS.hex (https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/simple_keyboard/blob/master/binaries/hid_liber_ANSI_ISO_JIS.hex))? the hexfile from gnubag or alaricljs which is the tmk firmware (and might have a bit of a funky layout)? or something else?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 20:21:25
Hold down the caps and hit the right shift.  If this turns on caps, you are running my map which appears to be the stock hid_liber map for tmk if you don't change anything at all.


Hey! This works. How do I get normal use of my caps lock?

Trying to load the ANSI_ISO_JIS.hex ends up with a "Invalid HEX file syntax" and if you try to run it, it runs through everything fine until the VErify portion and says Verify device fail at 0x00000
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: yeeeargh on Tue, 02 July 2013, 20:31:57
either you have to change the layout by yourself (download the source from github, change the layout, compile,...) or you find someone who does that for you and sends you a proper hex file. I guess you want just the normal ansi-layout, or do you need something special like media keys or anything?

Trying to load the ANSI_ISO_JIS.hex ends up with a "Invalid HEX file syntax" and if you try to run it, it runs through everything fine until the VErify portion and says Verify device fail at 0x00000

yeah, I guess you didn't download the hex file but the html file instead.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 20:36:41
just a normal ansi layout. If I feel inclined to add stuff like that, I will learn how to do that myself but right now I just need a stock ansi layout hex file.


I thought I was downloading the .hex, and windows explorer shows that it's a hex file.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: yeeeargh on Tue, 02 July 2013, 20:37:36
ok, just give me a minute... i can make you one

edit:
ok here it is. i used tmk's firmware (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard) and modified the "standard" layout to just an ansi layout. you can jump back to the bootloader (if you want to flash the firmware) by pressing "left shift", "right shift" and "pause" at the same time.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: remedyhalopc on Tue, 02 July 2013, 20:57:07
IT WORKS!

Thank you so much!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 03 July 2013, 12:39:12
Good to see you got all that figured out without me getting involved =)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: yeeeargh on Wed, 03 July 2013, 13:21:02
Good to see you got all that figured out without me getting involved =)

for documentation: does your simple_keyboard firmware (https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/simple_keyboard) have a key combination to jump to the bootloader, or is using a magnet the only simple way for now. had a quick look at it yesterday and wasn't able to find one.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 03 July 2013, 14:14:40
Should be just both shifts unless he ended up changing it.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 03 July 2013, 14:17:04
I have commented the bootloader jump part out from the code as I haven't tested it yet. It's still there on line 131 of main.c. I'm planning to move most of the comment text to a tutorial text file instead. So there is some work to be done =)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:26:48
So the controller with stock firmware is working fine, just put it intto my Filco with clears that I've finished.  But periodically it registers keypresses twice.  I've left my typing here uncorrected so youo'll see that it does some weird stuff sometimes.   What is this a function of and how do I fiix tit?  Not only are somoe letters doubled, but it also adds a previous letter rtto the foollowing.  Pretty much unusable in thtis form.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:33:26
I had this issue with my Filco and a couple switches when using bpiphany's firmware.  I switched to hasu's TMK and have no issues now.  What are the chances you are using brown switches?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:36:25
Using Clears as I had mentioned :)  I was hoping it's not something I'd have to reflash firmware for :(
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:38:04
lol... I read your message twice too...   of course the cool swirls in my vision are another indication that my blood sugar is a little too low.

Flashing the firmware is easy, as long as you have a magnet.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:39:58
I have it, yes.  Just don't want to open up the casing :(  Do I have to get the magnet right over the controller or can I try it through the case?  And do you have a pointer to Hasu's firmware / loader?  Thank you!
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:41:03
I have it, yes.  Just don't want to open up the casing :(  Do I have to get the magnet right over the controller or can I try it through the case?  And do you have a pointer to Hasu's firmware / loader?  Thank you!

You don't have to open the case, even a weak magnet should do just brush it over the general area until you see it.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:49:20
So I see some firmware here (all in C):
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/keyboard/hid_liber

Is that it?  And in terms of flashing, I need to install Flip?  Or does this firmware require some special C compiler / flasher?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:52:01
Install FLIP, download everything in that folder, set up your keymapping and stuff and then open up cmd

Navigate to the folder with all those files, do

"make -f Makefile.pjrc and/or Makefile.lufa ansi|iso|custom|alaricljs"

and then use the hexfile it makes in FLIP.

If your HID is in bootloader mode (using the magnet) then it should be detected in FLIP, so long as you have all the drivers and stuff.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:53:06
Awesome, I'm a make target.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:54:11
LOL yep. Grats
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:55:00
Thank you! If I just flash those as they are, I will get a default Filco ANSI layout?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:55:38
Thank you! If I just flash those as they are, I will get a default Filco ANSI layout?

Yep, should be.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:57:56
Thanks again <3 Trying this right now.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 15 July 2013, 16:58:09
Ya, flip is how you push the firmware to the KB.  But if you are not familiar with compilation then I would recommend getting a compile buddy.  Setup your keymap and get them to compile for you.

Modify one of the keymap_*.h files here  https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/keyboard/hid_liber   to do what you want.  :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 17:08:55
Okay I see a problem... I need to install a C compiler for Windows, right?  "'make' is not recognized as an  internal or external command, operable program or batch file."
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 15 July 2013, 17:10:59
Okay I see a problem... I need to install a C compiler for Windows, right?  "'make' is not recognized as an  internal or external command, operable program or batch file."

Oh, yeah.

Get this:

http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=avr;id=59;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwinavr%2Esourceforge%2Enet%2Findex%2Ehtml
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 17:20:11
That link is not working.  Trying to download that is.  Just tried doing make in Linux (virtual box), and it's giving  a "missing separator" error :(  Sigh.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 15 July 2013, 17:23:17
That link is not working.  Trying to download that is.  Just tried doing make in Linux (virtual box), and it's giving  a "missing separator" error :(  Sigh.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/winavr/
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 15 July 2013, 17:23:32
I'll rehost it for you if the above doesn't work. Check back in a sec.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 17:29:16
That one worked, thanks very much.  I've got Flip open with drivers updated and such.  Just in the process of creating a hex file.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 17:37:34
edit:  I've flashed 2 different hex files now, one made from Makefile.pjrc and one from Makefile.lufa  with the ANSI layout... and I still get the same errors where some keypresses are repeated / incorrect letters are inserted.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 15 July 2013, 19:13:29
edit:  I've flashed 2 different hex files now, one made from Makefile.pjrc and one from Makefile.lufa  with the ANSI layout... and I still get the same errors where some keypresses are repeated / incorrect letters are inserted.

what layout are you trying to flash?

upload the keymap and makefile maybe something is wrong.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 19:24:10
edit:  I've flashed 2 different hex files now, one made from Makefile.pjrc and one from Makefile.lufa  with the ANSI layout... and I still get the same errors where some keypresses are repeated / incorrect letters are inserted.

what layout are you trying to flash?

upload the keymap and makefile maybe something is wrong.

The latest files from here:
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/keyboard/hid_liber

standard layout.  It all works but with the same double-character errors (and repeating after a character).  I've put the stock controller in for now, no problems.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 15 July 2013, 19:56:03
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98044719/hid_liber_pjrc.hex (that is the stock file from the tmk github which is the standard ansi layout)
I just compiled it.


try this file. it's the standard ansi layout I sent remedyhalopc.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 15 July 2013, 19:56:31
I sent him probably the exact same thing.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 15 July 2013, 19:59:46
It sounds a lot like he has bouncy switches or there's radio interference.  In my car w/ a crappy power inverter my Filco with the replacement controller would spit random crap out.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 20:03:45
No problems with the stock controller though.  Or any other mechanical keyboards.  Only specifically with HID Liberation Device,  on 2 computers in different rooms.  So I don't think either of those possibilities apply.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 15 July 2013, 20:05:45
Well, the stock controller has de-bounce stuff in it.  bp's has none and hasu's has a little.  My stock controller doesn't have an issue in the noisy car.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 20:08:51
I'll try it in another Filco in a few days.  That should be telling.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: hasu on Mon, 15 July 2013, 20:22:23
If you have double-charcter errors on a few specific keys I'd say your problem is a switch defect.
But you said Filco stock controller works well with those switches, I suspect Filco and other brands use more conservative value for debouncing.

To fix the problem you can reseat spring and slider on those switches or replace with new siwtch.
Heavier spring will make the switch more bouncy, I suppose.

Or you can try software solution. Increase value of DEBOUNCE in config.h then compile it.
You need to do 'make clean' after you edit config.h. 15-20 is safe, I suppose.
The bigger value of DEBOUNCE means its scan rate gets slow and it may cause missing key stroke or transposing.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: hasu on Mon, 15 July 2013, 20:24:43
oops, double posts.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 20:29:50
Thanks, that's worth trying.    The other issue was additional characters that were not doubled.  It would like something like this:

Thtis is an nexeamplpe.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 16 July 2013, 04:52:39
Thanks, that's worth trying.    The other issue was additional characters that were not doubled.  It would like something like this:

Thtis is an nexeamplpe.

This looks like it could be a glitch read of a pressed switch on a scan. If t is still pressed when h is pressed in This and the t press glitches it will be seen as a new t press and replace h as the first key in the HID package. The AVR-keyboard firmware I flashed the HID Liberations Devices with doesn't handle this at all. My new simple_keyboard firmware should alleviate this problem.

Edit: Actually when I think more about it, the falling edge is where all debouncing is done on the Liberation device. So that probably isn't the correct story. Anyway more debouncing should hopefully solve the problem. More shielding is harder to apply, but not impossible..
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Kalmarauder on Tue, 16 July 2013, 18:40:06
I'm trying to install the bootloader driver but it doesn't show up in the Device Manager, or at least I can't find it if it's there. What should I do?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 16 July 2013, 18:59:51
I'm trying to install the bootloader driver but it doesn't show up in the Device Manager, or at least I can't find it if it's there. What should I do?

See here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35065.msg691301#msg691301).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Kalmarauder on Tue, 16 July 2013, 22:15:40
That's what I'm trying to do but I can't determine which item in the Device Manager tree is the keyboard's bootloader. When I plug the keyboard in, like 7 new entries appear under Human Interface Devices. If I try to update any of them (I've tried all of them), directing it to the proper folder (... /Flip 3.4.7/usb), it says "Windows has determined the driver software for your device is up to date" and Flip still can't open the device.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 16 July 2013, 22:20:06
That's what I'm trying to do but I can't determine which item in the Device Manager tree is the keyboard's bootloader. When I plug the keyboard in, like 7 new entries appear under Human Interface Devices. If I try to update any of them (I've tried all of them), directing it to the proper folder (... /Flip 3.4.7/usb), it says "Windows has determined the driver software for your device is up to date" and Flip still can't open the device.

Perhaps this (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35065.msg949091#msg949091) then.  Press both shifts or use a magnet when looking at the Device Manager.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: hasu on Tue, 16 July 2013, 22:27:44
It seems your keyboard works as keyboard :), keyboard firmware is likely running.

What did you do to start bootloader?
1. 'magnet' always should work.
2. 'both shifts down' should work if you have bpiphany's firmware.
3. 'both shfits and pause down' should work if you have tmk firmware.

Try magnet.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Kalmarauder on Wed, 17 July 2013, 00:22:08
Sweet, the magnet did it. Thanks. Now I just have to get used to this layout.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone (more or less).
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 19 July 2013, 21:53:13
I'm trying the controller on another Filco now.  Sadly the same story.  Even the same letters...  T's and O's are still doubled every once in a while.  I'm starting to think it's something to do with the controller, as what's the likelihood of 2 different keyboards with different switches having the same keys produce the same debounce (or whatever the real cause is) issues?

I also increased the debounce time in the config.h to 15 and then to 20--did not help.

This is the firmware I've tried:
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/keyboard/hid_liber

(tried both makefiles and the US ANSI layout).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: yeeeargh on Sat, 20 July 2013, 03:00:15
you could test it with bpiphany's firmware to localize the error: https://github.com/BathroomEpiphanies/simple_keyboard/

a) if you don't have problems with this one there might be a bug in hasu's firmware.
b) if the error still exists there might be a error with your controller
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: hasu on Sat, 20 July 2013, 07:02:53
EDIT: aaaah, I missed unit of delay and confused between ns and us :)   IGNORE THIS.


Photoelectric,
hmm, interesting. Then, it doesn't seem to be a debounce problem, likey a bug in my firmware.

After browsing source code, circuit and datasheets, I might found a clue/flaw related to this problem. 74HC238 which used in HID liberation requires around 50us 'propagaton dealy' while tmk firmware wait only for 5us. This is completely out of spec and likey causes a wrong output state. I guess other people also should had experience of this problem.

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/405/cd74hct138-84279.pdf
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74HC_HCT238.pdf


Propagation delay of 74HC238 may vary depending on manufacturers, let's take 100us for safety purpose.
Can you try this patch? Just change value at line 231 of matrix.c.

Code: [Select]
diff --git a/keyboard/hid_liber/matrix.c b/keyboard/hid_liber/matrix.c
index adf6ac8..d1a7341 100644
--- a/keyboard/hid_liber/matrix.c
+++ b/keyboard/hid_liber/matrix.c
@@ -156,7 +156,7 @@ uint8_t matrix_scan(void)
 {
     for (uint8_t col = 0; col < MATRIX_COLS; col++) {  // 0-7
         pull_column(col);   // output hi on theline
-        _delay_us(5);       // without this wait it won't read stable value.
+        _delay_us(100);       // without this wait it won't read stable value.
         for (uint8_t row = 0; row < MATRIX_ROWS; row++) {  // 0-17
             bool prev_bit = matrix_debouncing[row] & (1<<col);
             bool curr_bit = *row_pin[row] & row_bit[row];


This may not be related, but just curious. what is your wpm? are you very fast typer?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 20 July 2013, 09:52:50
Will try Bpiphany's firmware.

My WPM is ~90.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 20 July 2013, 10:26:10
Update: flashed Bpiphany's firmware, and it seems to be more robust at preventing the extra letter error.  They are still happening, but less noticeable.  The annoying thing is that it does not show up immediately but gets worse over time.  For example, I typed a few paragraphs in Notepad prior to making this post, and they were all clean.  Then I got all excited and started typing a positive reply here, and the extra "o"s started showing up again  And the more I type, the more they pop up.  Definitely a function of typing faster as well.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 21 July 2013, 21:09:18
EDIT: aaaah, I missed unit of delay and confused between ns and us :)   IGNORE THIS.


Photoelectric,
hmm, interesting. Then, it doesn't seem to be a debounce problem, likey a bug in my firmware.

After browsing source code, circuit and datasheets, I might found a clue/flaw related to this problem. 74HC238 which used in HID liberation requires around 50us 'propagaton dealy' while tmk firmware wait only for 5us. This is completely out of spec and likey causes a wrong output state. I guess other people also should had experience of this problem.

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/405/cd74hct138-84279.pdf
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74HC_HCT238.pdf


Propagation delay of 74HC238 may vary depending on manufacturers, let's take 100us for safety purpose.
Can you try this patch? Just change value at line 231 of matrix.c.

Code: [Select]
diff --git a/keyboard/hid_liber/matrix.c b/keyboard/hid_liber/matrix.c
index adf6ac8..d1a7341 100644
--- a/keyboard/hid_liber/matrix.c
+++ b/keyboard/hid_liber/matrix.c
@@ -156,7 +156,7 @@ uint8_t matrix_scan(void)
 {
     for (uint8_t col = 0; col < MATRIX_COLS; col++) {  // 0-7
         pull_column(col);   // output hi on theline
-        _delay_us(5);       // without this wait it won't read stable value.
+        _delay_us(100);       // without this wait it won't read stable value.
         for (uint8_t row = 0; row < MATRIX_ROWS; row++) {  // 0-17
             bool prev_bit = matrix_debouncing[row] & (1<<col);
             bool curr_bit = *row_pin[row] & row_bit[row];


This may not be related, but just curious. what is your wpm? are you very fast typer?

I've made this change in the matrix.c and also set the debounce value in the config file to "20"--seems good now.  No additional characters, and the keyboard responds as I expect it to.  Thank you very much for looking into it.  I hope this is the end of that issue (crossing my fingers that I've not jinxed myself by typing that!)

I don't think the debounce value mattered that much, but I left it at "20", as that's what I had it set to earlier.  Doesn't seem to affect anything I can notice.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 28 July 2013, 19:33:32
In order to modify the layout, I just need to swap around designations in one of the keymap*.h configuration files, like the ANSI or the CUSTOM, right?  Because it doesn't seem to work so far.  For example, I've swapped PgUp and PgDn with Home / End in the keymap_ansi.h , and when I save, compile, and program... the layout does not change--still the standard ANSI.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 28 July 2013, 19:54:48
According to the makefile in git ansi is the default, otherwise you have to specify which custom map you want.  You say you modified keymap_ansi.h which is the right one by default.  What's your make command look like?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 28 July 2013, 19:59:23
I've made a backup copy of the original keymap_ansi.h and modified the original.  My make command is as follows:

make -f Makefile.lufa ansi

It creates a new hex file--I see it.  Then I load the new hex, and... It's like I hadn't made any changes.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 28 July 2013, 20:02:16
Well, other than posting the keymap to get a 2nd set of eyes I don't know what to suggest.  What you're doing is right, so what you get should be too.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 28 July 2013, 20:08:30
Thank you.  Here's my modified keymap_ansi.h

Code: [Select]
// hid_liber ANSI

static const uint8_t PROGMEM keymaps[][MATRIX_ROWS][MATRIX_COLS] = {
/* Layer 0: Default ANSI
 *
 * ,---.   ,---------------. ,---------------. ,---------------. ,-----------.
 * |Esc|   |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 | |F5 |F6 |F7 |F8 | |F9 |F10|F11|F12| |PrS|ScL|Ins|
 * `---'   `---------------' `---------------' `---------------' `-----------'
 * ,-----------------------------------------------------------. ,-----------.
 * |~  |  1|  2|  3|  4|  5|  6|  7|  8|  9|  0|  -|  =|Backsp | |Hom|PgU|End|
 * |-----------------------------------------------------------| |-----------|
 * |Tab  |  Q|  W|  E|  R|  T|  Y|  U|  I|  O|  P|  [|  ]|    \| |Del|PgD|Ret|
 * |-----------------------------------------------------------| `-----------'
 * |Caps  |  A|  S|  D|  F|  G|  H|  J|  K|  L|  ;|  '|Return  |             
 * |-----------------------------------------------------------|     ,---.   
 * |Shft|iso|  Z|  X|  C|  V|  B|  N|  M|  ,|  .|  /|Shift     |     |Up |   
 * |-----------------------------------------------------------| ,-----------.
 * |Ctl|Gui|Alt|          Space                |Alt|Gui|App|Ctl| |Lef|Dow|Rig|
 * `-----------------------------------------------------------' `-----------'
 */

  KEYMAP(\
      ESC,   F1,   F2,   F3,   F4,   F5,   F6,   F7,   F8,   F9,  F10,  F11,  F12,       PSCR,  SLCK, INS, \
      GRV,    1,    2,    3,    4,    5,    6,    7,    8,    9,    0, MINS,  EQL, BSPC, HOME,  PGUP, END, \
      TAB,    Q,    W,    E,    R,    T,    Y,    U,    I,    O,    P, LBRC, RBRC, BSLS,  DEL,  PGDN, ENT, \
     CAPS,    A,    S,    D,    F,    G,    H,    J,    K,    L, SCLN, QUOT,        ENT,                   \
     LSFT, NUBS,    Z,    X,    C,    V,    B,    N,    M, COMM,  DOT, SLSH,       RSFT,         UP,       \
     LCTL, LGUI, LALT,              SPC,                         RALT, RGUI,  APP, RCTL, LEFT, DOWN, RGHT),

};

static const uint16_t PROGMEM fn_actions[] = {};

The only changes are to the Insert / Home / End / Page Up / Page Down / and all those keys.  Also made an additional Enter key in place of the old Page Down location, and got rid of Pause (replacing it with Insert).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 28 July 2013, 20:17:42
Ok, i'd put money down that your hex is right.... now for your flashing process.  When I was using it Flip was a wacky beast.  There is a specific order of operations to successfully load the hex file, otherwise it doesn't really do it.

Now I need to remember what it is (or find the docs I wrote).
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 28 July 2013, 20:21:55
Thank you again for helping troubleshoot this!!  I've been working on it and trying to learn / improve my controller, figuring out if I can make the bugs go away and such. 

Here's my flashing process:

* compile the new hex file
* open Flip
* press both shifts (used to use the magnet, but my reed switch is borked now)
* wait for the sound that new device has been plugged in
* make sure ATmega32U4 is selected in the drop-down menu
* open USB connection
* click on the "Load HEX file" button
* select my latest hex file
* click on "Start Application"
* unplug the keyboard, replug, reboot the computer (flashing usually messes up my mouse and sometimes makes my keyboard stuck in typing in all caps, so I generally have to reboot)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: hasu on Sun, 28 July 2013, 21:00:18
> press both shifts
Note that this is the way to start bootloader on bp's firmware. Not tmk firmware.

You can start by pressing both shifts and pause key on tmk. Pressing 'b' and space key while plugin should also work if BootMagic option is enable.

But I recommend magnet if possible it should always work. Magnet FTW :)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 28 July 2013, 21:07:00
That order of ops on Flip sounds right, if I remember selecting the hex before selecting the chipset is the wrong way, I'm guessing Flip validates that the hex is write for the chipset selected, so chipset first would make sense there.

Also, seeing as how you are eliminating Pause from your map, either stick to the magnet or you need to change the bootloader command.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 28 July 2013, 21:07:43
Hrm, I'll try adding Pause.  But I get the plugged in new hardware sound by pressing both Shifts, and the keyboard becomes unresponsive.  So I thought I was doing the right thing!

I'll keep the Pause on the map now!  Insert can go.
---
Just tried it: didn't work :(  I pressed Pause first then both Shifts, while still holding Pause.

Recompiled a new hex file with this:
Code: [Select]
// hid_liber ANSI

static const uint8_t PROGMEM keymaps[][MATRIX_ROWS][MATRIX_COLS] = {
/* Layer 0: Default ANSI
 *
 * ,---.   ,---------------. ,---------------. ,---------------. ,-----------.
 * |Esc|   |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 | |F5 |F6 |F7 |F8 | |F9 |F10|F11|F12| |PrS|ScL|Pau|
 * `---'   `---------------' `---------------' `---------------' `-----------'
 * ,-----------------------------------------------------------. ,-----------.
 * |~  |  1|  2|  3|  4|  5|  6|  7|  8|  9|  0|  -|  =|Backsp | |Hom|PgU|End|
 * |-----------------------------------------------------------| |-----------|
 * |Tab  |  Q|  W|  E|  R|  T|  Y|  U|  I|  O|  P|  [|  ]|    \| |Del|PgD|Ret|
 * |-----------------------------------------------------------| `-----------'
 * |Caps  |  A|  S|  D|  F|  G|  H|  J|  K|  L|  ;|  '|Return  |             
 * |-----------------------------------------------------------|     ,---.   
 * |Shft|iso|  Z|  X|  C|  V|  B|  N|  M|  ,|  .|  /|Shift     |     |Up |   
 * |-----------------------------------------------------------| ,-----------.
 * |Ctl|Gui|Alt|          Space                |Alt|Gui|App|Ctl| |Lef|Dow|Rig|
 * `-----------------------------------------------------------' `-----------'
 */

  KEYMAP(\
      ESC,   F1,   F2,   F3,   F4,   F5,   F6,   F7,   F8,   F9,  F10,  F11,  F12,       PSCR,  SLCK, BRK, \
      GRV,    1,    2,    3,    4,    5,    6,    7,    8,    9,    0, MINS,  EQL, BSPC, HOME,  PGUP, END, \
      TAB,    Q,    W,    E,    R,    T,    Y,    U,    I,    O,    P, LBRC, RBRC, BSLS,  DEL,  PGDN, ENT, \
     CAPS,    A,    S,    D,    F,    G,    H,    J,    K,    L, SCLN, QUOT,        ENT,                   \
     LSFT, NUBS,    Z,    X,    C,    V,    B,    N,    M, COMM,  DOT, SLSH,       RSFT,         UP,       \
     LCTL, LGUI, LALT,              SPC,                         RALT, RGUI,  APP, RCTL, LEFT, DOWN, RGHT),

};

static const uint16_t PROGMEM fn_actions[] = {};

When I click on "Start Application" I get the "USB device is unplugged" sound in Windows, so I assume Flip programs something in and releases the keyboard.  But... still Page Up and Page Down are on their original locations, and it appears the keymap is unchanged from the original ANSI.  I now wonder if any other changes got implemented, such as increased debounce time and the bug fix.

P.S.: I can't use the magnet--reed switch is broken, as I mentioned earlier.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: hasu on Sun, 28 July 2013, 23:55:07
I found Makefile.lufa has wrong value(512) for BOOTLOADER_SIZE. I must be 4096.
This will cause the failure of starting bootloader from firmware. I think you have firmware with the wrong value on your keyboard and it cannot kick up bootloader by press key method.

In this situation you need to reset controller by reed switch or shortcircuit method.
Fixing reed switch is better way, I think. But you can also open case and make short circuit both end of reed switch to reset controller.

Then, fix BOOTLOADER_SIZE value, compile and program it.


EDIT: OOPS. BOOTLOADER_SIZE is OK. I was confused with phantom Makefile.
So I think you can still jump into bootloader by Magic or Boot Magic keys. If not you should repair your reed switch.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 11:14:49
So, to be clear, there are *2* different bootloader modes that can exist on the controller at the *same* time?  I can enter one or the other?  I used the same flashing process back when I used a magnet for the reed switch--I'm not seeing any differences in how the flashing process goes now.  And I started with tms software right away.

Moreover, there are symptoms of successful flashing, or else Flip really messes up my OS, because after every flash, I have to reboot Windows (or my mouse gets messed up, plus sometimes typing in all capitals, and some keys don't work).  I'm not trying to be difficult and avoid the reed switch, but I want to understand the underlying logic.

And lastly, is it relevant to have other keyboards unplugged while flashing the controller?  I realize they are different devices with other controllers, but since my mouse gets affected, and my other keyboard gets affected (the all capitals bug), perhaps leaving it plugged in complicates something.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 29 July 2013, 11:46:15
The bootloader is a snippet of code residing in the last section of the program memory. You either get there by jumping to the correct memory address while running your own code. Simply put, you hand over the controls to the bootloader. In order for this to work, the code currently running on the chip needs to be correct enough to get to where it makes the jump.

Or you pull the reset pin low and have the HWB pin pulled low when you release the reset pin again. Then the chip itself starts running from where the bootloader starts. Doing this hardware reset is a lot more sure to happen the correct way than a software jump. As good as bomb proof.. (You nee dto set the chip fuses depending on bootloader size, but that is a completely different story.)

It is the same bootloader code that is run either way you start it.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 12:26:46
Okay, then your explanation contradicts Hasu's.  He says to get to the TMS bootloader, I have to press both shifts and Pause.  But you're saying the bootloader is the same, so no matter how I get to it, it's the same end result.  I know I get into the bootloader just fine, as evidenced by the sound of a new device plugged in, keyboard becoming unresponsive, Flip being able to open the USB connection, etc.  Something is missing in those explanations about TMS firmware vs. simple_keyboard firmware that's leaving me confused.  It seems like TMS firmware is not getting properly flashed for some reason, even though I started flashing it by using the magnet on the first night of using the controller.  In fact I ONLY flashed TMS firmware until someone mentioned simple_keyboard firmware, which I tried later.  My reed switch was broken after I already flashed TMS firmware a bunch of times.

P.S.: I've just used a bent pin to reset to bootloader a few times, loaded the hex file from Makefile.lufa and then later a hex file from Makefile.pjrc (both from the tmk package), and the result is the same--I can still enter the bootloader by pressing both shifts.  So something is not right about having to press both shifts and Pause in my case. 
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 29 July 2013, 13:18:29
If you can still reset the chip with only both shifts it sounds like you haven't been able to flash anything onto it. I don't know if FLIP does it without asking but in general you need to do an erase of the chip before flashing anything new onto it.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 13:46:49
Looks like "erase" is auto-selected in Flip, but I haven't run that side of the window (by selecting "Run").  I normally just load the HEX file and click on "Start Application".  Do I need to run the left side first?

(http://i.imgur.com/UqkzvAf.jpg)
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 29 July 2013, 13:56:19
Umm... start application just reboots the controller (with that option checked) or starts the already present code on it.  It does not flash anything.  You need to hit Run in the left box.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 14:01:32
*facepalm*  I knew I must have been doing something stupid...    Thanks to everyone, and sorry for wasting your time!  Hopefully it will work properly now.
----
Successfully flashed, finally!  Bootloader now comes up with two shifts + pause.  Trying debounce value of 10 and stock ANSI.  Thanks everyone once again.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: jedcred on Mon, 29 July 2013, 16:49:54
Unfortunately my post count isn't high enough to post in the classified for this but I thought it might help to ask here.  Does anyone happen to have an extra controller they got in the GB that they'd be willing to part with?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 29 July 2013, 21:12:09
Unfortunately my post count isn't high enough to post in the classified for this but I thought it might help to ask here.  Does anyone happen to have an extra controller they got in the GB that they'd be willing to part with?

how nice of you to circumvent the rules.
probably not, maybe.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: csimi on Tue, 30 July 2013, 00:21:56
Why don't you use DFU instead of Flip though?
Java is a major security risk.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 30 July 2013, 04:26:52
Why don't you use DFU instead of Flip though?
Java is a major security risk.
Isn't that just paranoid? Java as a web plugin, yes perhaps. Java as a runtime environment locally, not so much..
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: cgbuen on Thu, 01 August 2013, 12:59:24
Another weird thing happened here at work today with it.. [my first original strange issue here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35065.msg940239#msg940239) and here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35065.msg940751#msg940751)]

With my Windows machine off, I unplugged my Filco, shifted my workspace around, and then I plugged it back into a different port and turned the machine back on. It seems to have swapped a few keys with each other (LCtrl became Caps Lock and vice versa, and LWin became LAlt and vice versa). Which became incredibly annoying, because I programmed Caps Lock to LCtrl and kept LCtrl as is, but now they're both Caps Lock. I then plugged it into a Mac and these swaps still seem to be there.

Is this further confirmation that I have hardware issues, or is this something that might be fixed by taking it back home and re-flashing with hasu's firmware (which might have been updated in the past month)?
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: gnubag on Thu, 01 August 2013, 14:26:29
Another weird thing happened here at work today with it.. [my first original strange issue here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35065.msg940239#msg940239) and here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35065.msg940751#msg940751)]

With my Windows machine off, I unplugged my Filco, shifted my workspace around, and then I plugged it back into a different port and turned the machine back on. It seems to have swapped a few keys with each other (LCtrl became Caps Lock and vice versa, and LWin became LAlt and vice versa). Which became incredibly annoying, because I programmed Caps Lock to LCtrl and kept LCtrl as is, but now they're both Caps Lock. I then plugged it into a Mac and these swaps still seem to be there.

Is this further confirmation that I have hardware issues, or is this something that might be fixed by taking it back home and re-flashing with hasu's firmware (which might have been updated in the past month)?

I had this problem with both my filco hid and my phantom, since some windows update. ctrl and caps were switched. I just fixed it in the keymapping and reflashed them.
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: hasu on Fri, 02 August 2013, 18:14:58
Read this. Plugin with pressing backspace(and space if you use latest firmware) to clear setting.
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard#boot-magic-configuration---virtual-dip-switch
Title: Re: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 22 October 2013, 10:11:27
Has anyone had a conflict with their HID Liberation Device keyboard being plugged in at the same time as a TRiK keyboard?  For some reason, if I plug in the TRiK keyboard, both boards stop working.  Plugging them in individually, keystrokes are registered.  Plugging both in, I get that bug where no input is possible, and the mouse click is messed up.  Have to reboot to be able to use either keyboard individually again.

(Although, my TRiK keyboard is not behaving properly at the moment either, as I took out all the switch tops and stems, and when completing just the `~ and 1! switches to test, I'm getting no input when pressing `~ and getting upside down !'s when pressing 1!.  Should check if the PCB is well insulated from the metal case, just in case.  But I think this is a different issue from the one above).

Okay, I think this was something related to not having all the switches in my TRiK keyboard.  Put all the switches in, and now everything works.  Odd!  I've been able to only have a couple of switches in at a time in my Filcos, and they registered properly.  Anyway, not an issue anymore!