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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: morpheus on Thu, 04 July 2013, 10:56:05

Title: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: morpheus on Thu, 04 July 2013, 10:56:05
Show me your love for Alps keyboards!

Which Alps keyboards have you loved over the years?
Which ones do you use on a regular basis?
Which ones do you recommend for the community?

I can only wish to own as many Alps keyboards as this guy...

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 04 July 2013, 10:57:58
I'm new to the Alps game but I currently have a 1087XM with Clicky White Alps and a Dell AT101W with Tactile Black Alps. I would highly recommend the AT101W to anyone who wants to try Alps out.

My favorite Alps type switch is the Matias Clicky Switch. It will be going into the future GH TKL Alps custom board (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44576.0). Otherwise, I would've snagged a Kingsaver :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 04 July 2013, 10:59:03
#kingsaver
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 04 July 2013, 11:08:26
I plan on modding the hell out of my 1087XM. The switch swap is just phase one of my project. If anyone wants to follow my build log, check this thread out (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44810.30).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 04 July 2013, 11:36:06
I love Alps but hate the big-ass enter key. What a conundrum! I've bought some older Alps boards, but I couldn't use one of them as a daily driver. Instead I'm going to harvest the complicated CM switches and doubleshot key caps.

I do have a new SGI Granite 9500900. That is a beautiful piece of hardware for sure. Probably the best built Alps board of all time.

I'm planning to mod an abs M1 to better switches to have a modern full-size Alps board, and hopefully get the Alps TKL project board (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44576.0) when it's available. Not sure where to go from there. Maybe I'll close out my Alps collection at that point.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 04 July 2013, 11:39:43
I heard this was a thread for alps lovers. 

I'll barrage you guys with pics of all my alps board when i get home tonight.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 04 July 2013, 15:07:37
I usually hate Alps. Too low starting resistance, wrong force curve that always forces me to bottom out. Sensitive to dust and get scratchy. I had a AEKII, DellAT101W and PowerUser 105 whose switches (Cream, Black, White) I have combined to try to find likable combinations of spring, slider and click leaf, but without any luck.

Then I got a vintage Apple Standard Keyboard this week. It has Salmon pink Alps, and I love the feel of them with the Apple keycaps. They do feel a bit like "MX Ergo Clear" or "Panda Clear". Unfortunately, it is a M0118 with a bit of a weird layout. The M0116 has the Control key in the "correct" position (according to me), where this one has a latching Caps Lock.

I also have a Chicony keyboard with SMK "Montereys". They are not Alps, they merely have Alps-compatible keycaps. One of the best type of clicky switches, for sure. A bit like a more tactile, somewhat harder Cherry MX Blue.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: GLaDOS on Thu, 04 July 2013, 17:36:29
AT102W owner here. The ISO (102) layout seems very rare. Black complicated tactile ALPS. Currently looking for a complete ISO set of blank ALPS caps.

(http://a.pomf.se/8Lz8.jpg)

Luckily I have an old broken AT102W with about 100 ALPS switches. I'd like to keep a few for when i need to perform surgery on mine (happened under the black caps), but if anyone needs one or two, I could perhaps take them off.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 04 July 2013, 20:18:48
(http://i.imgur.com/ANNptgh.jpg)

My 1087XM with green ALPS, right when I got it in April. I hate a lot of things about it, but it's the best feeling keyboard I've ever used (at least, until I got my hhkb). I'm considering selling it, not because I don't like it, but because I don't have a use for it. I really do love it, though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 04 July 2013, 20:34:16
When I first got into keyboards, my source was a computer graveyard owned by the local university.

The most common "good" board you could find there was a Focus 2001, for somewhere between 1 and 5 USD if I recall right.

More recently, I got a DK1008XM with green switches; they're nice in their own way, but they aren't traditional old white ALPS. :/
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jabar on Thu, 04 July 2013, 20:41:39
I used an Apple Extended Keyboard II from 1991 - 1999. I have long forgotten how awesome that keyboard was as I have since used rubber domes until last year.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: morpheus on Fri, 05 July 2013, 00:29:59
OMG Kingsaver is gorgeous...probably costs $400+




Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: 1391406 on Fri, 05 July 2013, 03:51:13
Alps keyboards I've used thus far are a Dell AT101W, Apple Extended Keyboard (M0115), and an Apple Extended Keyboard II (M3501). The Apple Extended Keyboard II seems to be a cult favorite with a lot of people, but I much prefer the sound and feel of the Apple Extended Keyboard (M0115).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nappi11 on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:09:04
One blue alps lover reporting in.

The keyboard I'm using at the moment:

(http://i.imgur.com/zTCkYbTh.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/sOuFNZeh.jpg)

PCB says it is Focus FK-747A, but there are no labels on the case. Switches are complicated & clicky blue alps, except WASD + L-Shift & L-Alt modded into linear/very little tactile and no clicky sound, because of gaming.

The fluffy layout can be seen from the pictures.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: laffindude on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:31:31
I am loving the Alps love.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jkercado on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:46:36
I've become a fan of ALPS (and their variants). Right now I'm rocking a Ducky 1087XM with black linear XMs at the office. Liking it a lot, plus is way more silent than the green XMs, which I think my co-workers appreciate. Had a red Escape key, but stole this one from my Dell AT101W - I think it looks more elegant for the office.

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/jkercado/temporary_zps715ffb01.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: AKIMbO on Fri, 05 July 2013, 15:38:43
Here are pics of some of the ALPs boards I've owned (many I've since sold).

Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues)
(http://i.imgur.com/iEckdSj.jpg)

Dell AT101 (Black ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/mqAgclp.jpg)

Old Logo Dell AT101 (Pink ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/maWlhur.jpg)

Filco Zero (I modded this to orange ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZmeBSdm.jpg)

MTek-104 (Monterey Blues)
(http://i.imgur.com/TX9qU3D.jpg)

Northgate Omikey (This came stock with white ALPs....I modded it to blue ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/H1tLYLd.jpg)

SGI Granite (Dampened white ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/TbTydHW.jpg)

SGI White (Dampened cream ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/d6Ajaq3.jpg)

Siig Minitouch (Montery Blues)
(http://i.imgur.com/rhJcOjd.jpg)

Zenith ZKB2-AT (Linear Green ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/Qzw0SW6.jpg)

Zenith ZKB2-AT (Linear Yellow ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/bwcsrcR.jpg)

Wang 724 (Orange Omrons)
(http://i.imgur.com/qkrYDJE.jpg)

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 July 2013, 15:43:55
Man....you had my unicorn board. I want a Filco Zero so bad Akimbro
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 05 July 2013, 17:27:25
Wow Akimbo is definitely the Alps master so far!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 05 July 2013, 19:16:00
Here are pics of some of the ALPs boards I've owned (many I've since sold).

I was wondering when you were going to put out.

Nothing for me to add except that I have an actual "Alps Electric" branded keyboard (ANSI, complicated white) in storage.

I hate to break it out for a photo, but this thread needs it. Also, somebody crack open some old Apple boards.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: morpheus on Fri, 05 July 2013, 19:41:55
Akimbo, that is a beautiful collection, those are keepers.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: calavera on Fri, 05 July 2013, 21:33:26
I love alps. It's just a difficult switch to get into due to it's lack of availability and relatively fragile switches.

I really look forward to all the custom alps projects that are happening. ;)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: grips on Fri, 05 July 2013, 22:06:14
I figured I needed to give Alps switches a try so I picked up an AT101W on ebay for about $30. I should receive it on Monday. Looking forward to trying it out.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 05 July 2013, 22:55:02
Most of these seem to be older boards.  What happened to ALPS?  Are they still being made?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: calavera on Fri, 05 July 2013, 22:56:19
No they went down under a long time ago. Matias is the only company that makes alps switches/boards now.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 05 July 2013, 22:56:58
Matias is the only Alps switch/board manufacturer in the world now.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: TimIsABat on Fri, 05 July 2013, 23:40:18
Dell AT101 with black ALPS. I want to find some blank keycaps in WYSE colors, but that is hard right now lol. I haven't done any real typing on it yet cause I am in the process of cleaning it, but it feels really nice so far.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 06 July 2013, 00:37:57
That's a shame - seems like there were a lot of different switches, and lots of love for them.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: hasu on Sat, 06 July 2013, 23:32:32
I love Alps linear, green and old T-shaped stem.
http://imgur.com/a/N1yMX
http://imgur.com/a/QyXhu
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 07 July 2013, 07:50:07
That's a shame - seems like there were a lot of different switches, and lots of love for them.

I think that Alps switches feel better than Cherries, I like click and Cherry has never gotten it right.

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Halvar on Sun, 07 July 2013, 09:32:29
I'm using an SGI Granite board with cream Alps at work (silent tactical Alps), and while the switches could be lighter for me, it has a very nice feel and is nicely silent.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 08 July 2013, 08:04:05
(http://i.imgur.com/owlIuJ5.jpg)

Sup
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 08 July 2013, 08:15:08
/me ruins his Filco with all his drooling

Link me some info on that LZ Sifo. I thought Kingsaver and Calavera's MX/Alps board were the only few Korean custom Alps boards out right now.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 08 July 2013, 08:19:30
/me ruins his Filco with all his drooling

Link me some info on that LZ Sifo. I thought Kingsaver and Calavera's MX/Alps board were the only few Korean custom Alps boards out right now.

LZ himself just posted it today and it's literally like pasted together.

(http://i.imgur.com/30dW6sE.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: morpheus on Wed, 10 July 2013, 10:51:02
What do you GH'ers think are the top 5 Alps Switches, and top 5 Alps keyboards?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 July 2013, 12:32:38
Top 5 Alps Switches:
1) Matias Clicky
2) Monterey Blues
3) Clicky Whites
4) Tactile Blacks
5) Matias Quiet

I still haven't tried Complicated Blue Alps but I heard they're sexy.

Top Alps boards:
1) Filco Zero
2) Filco Zero
3) Filco Zero
4) Filco Zero
5) Filco Zero

I love the Filco Zero :P; it's one of my dream boards along with the G80-5000. There's also apparently a modern TKL layout Alps board that Leopold put out but I forgot what it was called. The Apple AEK and AT101W are very nice. I'm getting a Siig Minitouch and Dauphin board soon so I'll comment on those soon.

I'm thinking that the Kingsaver, Calavera's Mini Alps/MX, and the future GH TKL Alps boards are gonna be awesome as well.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 10 July 2013, 12:36:48
(http://i.imgur.com/Ywtkhmi.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Jmnqn4w.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6bYBr3L.jpg)

sup
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: terrpn on Wed, 10 July 2013, 12:45:56
What do you GH'ers think are the top 5 Alps Switches, and top 5 Alps keyboards?

akimbo is definitely a stud with those boards- wow!

my favorite alps [like] switch is monterey blues, but i think that is only because i do not have a complicated blue alps yet.

would definitely like to buy one if anybody has 1 they want to turn loose :-*

i hear the creamy alps are pretty creamy...........

i have more alps boards than i do cherry boards:)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: pasph on Wed, 10 July 2013, 12:51:46
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Ywtkhmi.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Jmnqn4w.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6bYBr3L.jpg)


sup

GIVE ME ONE OF THOSE
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:35:42
I'll take the whites. Sifo == pimp
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:36:48
Sifo doesn't actually have or own those boards lmao. He's just posting stuff he sees on KBD.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:42:38
Well, then he needs to get out there and start stealing them for us,  ASAP!

P.S. I'm awaiting delivery of my Chicony 5160AT so I can try out and harvest some complicated blues. My order of Matias click switches is delayed by like a month too,  so it's going to be a while before I answer the question about my favorite switches. I'm impatient!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: morpheus on Wed, 10 July 2013, 18:22:57
Sifo doesn't actually have or own those boards lmao. He's just posting stuff he sees on KBD.

Those guys at KBD are ballers. I don't know how they get all this stuff.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 July 2013, 18:23:56
Get? They MAKE :P
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: morpheus on Wed, 10 July 2013, 18:31:24
Get? They MAKE :P

Daaaamn..... :blank:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: AKIMbO on Wed, 10 July 2013, 19:20:18
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Ywtkhmi.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Jmnqn4w.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6bYBr3L.jpg)


sup

OMG want....do want!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 10 July 2013, 22:32:27
I honestly don't really care for alps (SORRY WRONG THREAD)

but I'll see about getting one or two of these. There's been a sudden influx of "custom" alps boards.

And then sell it or give it away to one of you alps lovers.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 10 July 2013, 23:56:43
Ooh,  I want one! In B4 CPTBadAss! ;)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 July 2013, 07:49:24
Pffft. Sifo owes me since I currently I have the largest supply of Green Tea Kit Kats in my apartment. Plus we're both Select fanboys. SUP SON ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

SIFO, HOOK ME UP.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: DamnDan on Thu, 11 July 2013, 09:42:08
Beautiful boards guys<drools>

I am currently typing on AT101W which I loooove (tested some MX boards and really don't like them as much).

Recently my collegue bought Monterey board with white alps (we thought it will have monterey switches, but it turned out for the better) and boy do I want me some of these as well :P

Sifo...i must say that want level is high within me right now...ALPS mini board....mmmm...

Only problem i see with ALPS boards is the lack of novelty caps, or rather really small amount compared to MX and Topre. But I will wait patiently and maybe one day some will show up :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 11 July 2013, 09:54:16
Only problem i see with ALPS boards is the lack of novelty caps, or rather really small amount compared to MX and Topre.

That's not a problem, it just means you'll have fewer distractions from the great typing experience!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 July 2013, 09:58:55
Novelty caps distract you? Interesting.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: DamnDan on Thu, 11 July 2013, 10:17:46
Only problem i see with ALPS boards is the lack of novelty caps, or rather really small amount compared to MX and Topre.

That's not a problem, it just means you'll have fewer distractions from the great typing experience!

Well, that might be true ;) but what i dream about is having a red line of keys going from "tilde" to numpad "-". But you are right, typing experience was never sooo goood :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 July 2013, 10:20:21
DamnDan, did you know that BunnyLake will make you a custom Alps keycap/keycap set? Check it out in his vendor forum (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45687.0). I've apparently got a cap coming from him and I've got a few Alps novelties as well :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: GLaDOS on Thu, 11 July 2013, 12:14:31
I just want a set of beige ISO blank caps.  I've currently got a mix of beige and blank on here and it doesn't look good.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 11 July 2013, 12:43:05
Novelty caps distract you? Interesting.

Just trying to make him feel better about the lack of Alps caps. But who knows? If enough interest can be generated in an Alps revival, maybe cap makers will follow.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 July 2013, 12:46:29
Ooo gotcha. I got lucky and I have a few Alps novelties coming. My Tofu101 board has an Orange on Black Alps GH cap. It's amazing :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 13 July 2013, 20:55:11
(http://f1nkl.iptime.org:1090/files/ks/DSCF0002yp.JPG)

Here's a reference for lubing alps switches, courtesy of finkl over at KBD.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 14 July 2013, 01:33:16
Lubing Alps? Sacrilege! Then again, I don't like the damped and linear varieties.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: hasu on Sun, 14 July 2013, 07:50:23
It is very difficult or impossible to get Alps board in good shape here.

Without lubing every old Alps boards I got didn't works decently except for NIB one.
Alps tends to go rotten quickly comparing with Cherry? Fortunately lubing Alps is not difficult and it works well with good care.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 14 July 2013, 08:29:33
Alps tends to go rotten quickly comparing with Cherry?

I don't know. I have gotten old worn Alps that looked terrible but felt great, and virtually new ones that were awful. It is not just age or wear.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: GLaDOS on Sun, 14 July 2013, 08:42:04
My ALPS are from 1996 and are still in -- as far as I can tell -- great condition.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 14 July 2013, 09:37:44
I just got a Chicony 5160AT with blue sliders. Must be from circa 1985. Keyboard is yellowed as a mutha, but the switches feel awesome.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: MTManiac on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:14:05
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Grimey on Mon, 26 August 2013, 19:30:21
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.

The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest.  Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches. 

That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 26 August 2013, 20:22:21
Not the greatest picture but here's my SGI Granite.

(http://i.imgur.com/ehG0JrW.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 26 August 2013, 20:45:41
Not the greatest picture but here's my SGI Granite.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ehG0JrW.jpg)


That's interesting - white and gray (whatever), but the function keys are all white.

There was a discussion about this somewhere here recently.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 26 August 2013, 22:20:28
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.

The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest.  Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches. 

That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.

Can you find someone with a Ducky 1087XM that's willing to scrap it?

I'm thinking of doing some switch-swaps on my 1008XM because it otherwise fits my needs for a modern board.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Burz on Mon, 26 August 2013, 23:21:53
Favorite ALPS switches:

1. Blue CM
2. Matias Quiet
3. Fukka Clicky (haven't tried Matias clicky yet)
4. Monterery blue
5. Black CM

Compared with other switch types, I'd say that buckling spring are about 2.5 and the more popular Cherry MX are about on par with #5. As for RD, I've never tried Topre but I'd rate ThinkPad RD somewhere in the middle of that list (though the new keycaps are A+ in my opinion... very easy to hit quickly and properly).

After just a couple weeks, I love my Mini Quiet Pro; It's spoiling me. It and its siblings (Mini Tactile Pro and Laptop Pro) are the only compact ALPS keyboards you can buy new today, and they've got great switches.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Mon, 26 August 2013, 23:32:17
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.

The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest.  Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches. 

That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.

Can you find someone with a Ducky 1087XM that's willing to scrap it?

I'm thinking of doing some switch-swaps on my 1008XM because it otherwise fits my needs for a modern board.

Careful--I've read that Alps XM switches are not pin compatible with original/Fuhua/Matias Alps. XM are supposed to be their own breed. Plus, all reviews are that the Ducky Alps board are ducking awful.
I got hold of a couple of Dell AT101Ws, and an Abs M1 for my own future switch transplant boards. Neither is TKL, but the M1 is a modern 104 chassis, at least, and the Dell boards are nice quality, key caps excepted.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 26 August 2013, 23:54:54
Show Image
(http://f1nkl.iptime.org:1090/files/ks/DSCF0002yp.JPG)


Here's a reference for lubing alps switches, courtesy of finkl over at KBD.

So I saw this post and I realized I had no idea how to actually open up an Alps switch so I did a little digging. For anyone curious as to how to open the switches to be able to lube them, thought I'd post some info:

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nappi11 on Tue, 27 August 2013, 09:19:16
I've opened my blues with two screwdrivers and pliers this far. I insert the screwdrivers as shown in ripsters guide, pinch them a bit and grab the slider with the pliers and pull up. I've found out this as the easiest way to open the switch. There is a risk of making some scratches to the slider, but one just needs to be careful.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 27 August 2013, 09:35:51
Alps fan here. 

Love Orange Alps and Monterey Blue.  Never tried Blue Alps but all I have heard are good things.

I just purchased some Matias clicky.  We'll see how those work out.

Alps weened me off Cherry switches.  I prefer the higher actuation point.  Actually the only Cherry board that I will buy are ergo boards.  Buckling spring, Topre, and Alps for everything else.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Grimey on Tue, 27 August 2013, 11:03:32
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.

The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest.  Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches. 

That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.

Can you find someone with a Ducky 1087XM that's willing to scrap it?

I'm thinking of doing some switch-swaps on my 1008XM because it otherwise fits my needs for a modern board.

Careful--I've read that Alps XM switches are not pin compatible with original/Fuhua/Matias Alps. XM are supposed to be their own breed. Plus, all reviews are that the Ducky Alps board are ducking awful.
I got hold of a couple of Dell AT101Ws, and an Abs M1 for my own future switch transplant boards. Neither is TKL, but the M1 is a modern 104 chassis, at least, and the Dell boards are nice quality, key caps excepted.

The swapping worked fine for me.  I have a Dell AT101W with green XM switches from as Ducky, and a Ducky 1008XM with black ALPS switches from said AT101W.

I also have a 1087XM board sitting around, I just really would prefer a gh-60 ALPS variant for layout options and size than the typical TKL.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Tue, 27 August 2013, 15:05:59
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.

The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest.  Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches. 

That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.

Can you find someone with a Ducky 1087XM that's willing to scrap it?

I'm thinking of doing some switch-swaps on my 1008XM because it otherwise fits my needs for a modern board.

Careful--I've read that Alps XM switches are not pin compatible with original/Fuhua/Matias Alps. XM are supposed to be their own breed. Plus, all reviews are that the Ducky Alps board are ducking awful.
I got hold of a couple of Dell AT101Ws, and an Abs M1 for my own future switch transplant boards. Neither is TKL, but the M1 is a modern 104 chassis, at least, and the Dell boards are nice quality, key caps excepted.

The swapping worked fine for me.  I have a Dell AT101W with green XM switches from as Ducky, and a Ducky 1008XM with black ALPS switches from said AT101W.

I also have a 1087XM board sitting around, I just really would prefer a gh-60 ALPS variant for layout options and size than the typical TKL.

Thanks for the correction. I'm really glad that's the case.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Binge on Tue, 27 August 2013, 15:19:16
alps fan here.  Alps wobble... only issue with them.  Fix it and I marry alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: N8N on Tue, 27 August 2013, 16:16:35
I'm using an SGI Granite board with cream Alps at work (silent tactical Alps), and while the switches could be lighter for me, it has a very nice feel and is nicely silent.

This.  I don't like the AT101W because I can't help but bottom out on it, but with the dampers on the creams I can bottom out all day without stress or noise.  Love my Granite, if I had to sell all but one of my keyboards, it'd be in the final three. (the other two being a Wyse terminal with blacks and a Filco with clears and imsto PBTs.)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: abdulmuhsee on Tue, 27 August 2013, 16:52:36
After just a couple weeks, I love my Mini Quiet Pro; It's spoiling me. It and its siblings (Mini Tactile Pro and Laptop Pro) are the only compact ALPS keyboards you can buy new today, and they've got great switches.

Speaking of new compact ALPS, I just paid for a "new old stock" SIIG MiniTouch on eBay, which solved my Mini Quiet Pro vs. whatever dilemma.  Otherwise, yeah, one is pretty much limited to Matias if they want a new, compact (or any size) ALPS board.

I'm hoping the Monterey Blues are just as solid as regular ALPS, since I'm probably never going to find a new MiniTouch again (unless the seller has more up his sleeve), and I plan to use it plenty.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 27 August 2013, 17:11:54
Not the greatest picture but here's my SGI Granite.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ehG0JrW.jpg)



That's interesting - white and gray (whatever), but the function keys are all white.

There was a discussion about this somewhere here recently.

Really?  That's the normal color combination I've seen for SGI granite keyboards.  Deskthority and Ripster had that same color combination up on their SGI granite info pages.

It's the combo I vaguely remember from supporting a load of SGI's back in the 90s as well.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: N8N on Tue, 27 August 2013, 17:25:18
Not the greatest picture but here's my SGI Granite.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ehG0JrW.jpg)



That's interesting - white and gray (whatever), but the function keys are all white.

There was a discussion about this somewhere here recently.

Really?  That's the normal color combination I've seen for SGI granite keyboards.  Deskthority and Ripster had that same color combination up on their SGI granite info pages.

It's the combo I vaguely remember from supporting a load of SGI's back in the 90s as well.

I think the point was that the Model M (which pretty much defined the standard 101 key layout, and was subsequently modified for the 104-key layout) had the function keys alternating in blocks of four.  So it's odd that the Granite used such a bog-standard layout but deviated from the standard color scheme.  But those keycaps are nice aren't they?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 27 August 2013, 18:36:44
Careful--I've read that Alps XM switches are not pin compatible with original/Fuhua/Matias Alps. XM are supposed to be their own breed.

"Own breed"? I am not sure anyone will solve the Alps Vortex. I did come across a patent for an Alps clone switch last night, but, frigging typical, it told me nothing — it's too late in time to be of any use (1991) and it's not even assigned to a company!

The "Common Alps Clone" design has been sold by various companies since the 80s, including Xiang Min (XM), HiMAKE (now part of the Hua-Jie Group), and Taiwan Tai-Hao. By far and above the most common Alps clone is the HiMAKE/Hua-Jie AK-CN2. They also sold AK-C2/D2, which has been superseded by AK-CN2 (2), which is internally identical to the Xiang Min KSB-C, the clicky switch that Diatec and Ducky use. (Ducky also used KSB-N in the linear Ducky 1000-series keyboards.)

They're all pin compatible with original Alps/Fuhua switches. The Alps-style switches that are keycap compatible but not pin compatible include Taiwan Tai-Hao Aruz, KPT/TEC, Omron B3G-S, Omron Alps-style and SMK second generation Alps mount ("Monterey", if clicky).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bueller on Sat, 07 September 2013, 23:29:15
Just picked up another typewriter with Alps SS profile caps, got enough to do another lowpoly board now :)

(http://i.imgur.com/Vt8oxgX.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/iNuKxdQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: daerid on Sun, 08 September 2013, 00:11:23
It sucks because Cherry MX Is actually my least favorite switch design of the 3 common ones. My dream board is a 55g Topre ErgoDox, but I'm unlikely to see one in my lifetime. Barely underneath that would be a Black Linear Alps ErgoDox (I kinda like the ErgoDox form factor), followed by Stock Clears
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: daerid on Sun, 08 September 2013, 00:12:02
I wish Matias would respond to my thread in their vendor forum regarding their new switches in an MX pin out.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 10 January 2014, 06:02:18
Does anyone know more comprehensively which old canon typewriters used alps switches? I can’t find any good resources online.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 10 January 2014, 08:10:02
Recently, I acquired an Apple Extended Keyboard with the intent of adding it to my personal collection.

I have had 3-4 of them in the past, all with some defect, usually one or more dead keys. Now that I have a bag of orange Alps switches, I figured that I could repair one if I needed to get it back to proper condition.

I tested this one (it was dirty and yellowed, but I needed to see whether it was OK electrically) and all worked properly.

When I took it apart, I realized that it has pink Alps. I used to be confused between orange and salmon, since the orange is not particularly bright and I have bought actual salmon that was very colorful (I suppose that wild salmon tends toward red while farmed salmon tends to orange).

Anyway, here it is, open and still dirty, with blue and orange switches for comparison, with and without flash, since lighting always seems hard for me.

My dilemma is whether to clean it up, put it back together and keep it, clean it and sell it, or to harvest the switches and keep them or sell them.

If anybody is interested in buying the complete board or the switches, please send me a private message in the next couple of days. I will think about it through the weekend and decide by the beginning of the week.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: terrpn on Fri, 10 January 2014, 12:01:42
Recently, I acquired an Apple Extended Keyboard with the intent of adding it to my personal collection.

I have had 3-4 of them in the past, all with some defect, usually one or more dead keys. Now that I have a bag of orange Alps switches, I figured that I could repair one if I needed to get it back to proper condition.

I tested this one (it was dirty and yellowed, but I needed to see whether it was OK electrically) and all worked properly.

When I took it apart, I realized that it has pink Alps. I used to be confused between orange and salmon, since the orange is not particularly bright and I have bought actual salmon that was very colorful (I suppose that wild salmon tends toward red while farmed salmon tends to orange).

Anyway, here it is, open and still dirty, with blue and orange switches for comparison, with and without flash, since lighting always seems hard for me.

My dilemma is whether to clean it up, put it back together and keep it, clean it and sell it, or to harvest the switches and keep them or sell them.

If anybody is interested in buying the complete board or the switches, please send me a private message in the next couple of days. I will think about it through the weekend and decide by the beginning of the week.

i actually prefer and am very fond of the aek, aek II's, etc.

you can still pick up fairly reasonable and are real tanks.

if i did not already own a salmon alps i would offer to buy- maybe somebody else that does not have a salmon alps would like?

seeing all the various alps you have why not mod into a hybrid alps board?

orange, salmon, blue and cream? how cool would that be...........

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 10 January 2014, 22:00:30
Recently, I acquired an Apple Extended Keyboard with the intent of adding it to my personal collection. [...] When I took it apart, I realized that it has pink Alps. I used to be confused between orange and salmon, since the orange is not particularly bright and I have bought actual salmon that was very colorful.
I’m pretty sure the kind you have there is what gets called “salmon” (and I agree that’s a confusing name).

How does the feel compare to orange alps switches? I like the orange ones in some M0116/AEKs much better than the “cream” kind found in the AEK2. And since you seem to have a number of different types there, how does the feel compare to the blue ones?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: tuxsavvy on Fri, 10 January 2014, 22:10:23
Northgate Omnikey 101:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0ZjIV-q7Yj0/UpwzfAHFBvI/AAAAAAAAAKA/YX4paLGhj3Q/s1600/20131202_001.jpg)

SiiG Minitouch (with Chinese legends): No photos yet...

APC Clicker F-21 (ok it is not exactly proper Alps but it looks like Alps and also this photo was before it was refurbished) :p :
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AcuMvfW1kMU/UpwzwLcuavI/AAAAAAAAALU/mvfbhyDdQNw/s1600/20131202_022.jpg)

Which Alps keyboards have you loved over the years?
None! I have tried very little Alps based. Maybe the Northgate Omnikey 101 would come close to feeling nice but she is broken (sadly).

Which ones do you use on a regular basis?
APC Clicker F-21... because SiiG Minitouch is somewhat on a permanent borrow basis and Northgate Omnikey 101 needs repairs.

Which ones do you recommend for the community?
Depending on size. Definitely would not really recommend APC Clicker because the feel as described by some members on the deskthority forums as inconsistent feel. Some keys would feel stiff and other keys would feel soft. It is not like Realforce's variable weight, it is much worse than that. Even after lubing the switches (via leaf springs) the feel is still inconsistent.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 11 January 2014, 18:51:05
How does the feel compare to orange alps switches? I like the orange ones in some M0116/AEKs much better than the “cream” kind found in the AEK2. And since you seem to have a number of different types there, how does the feel compare to the blue ones?

I do not use these regularly, from a cursory test there seems to be little difference between orange and pink. Currently I only have loose orange switches from a non-working AEK, and have not used a working orange AEK in a couple of years. I can't really tell you without doing a side-by-side comparison. Both types have their champions.

The dampened creams are very different. I like them pretty well, for what they are, but I like the "undampened" style better and prefer tactile switches overall.

Blue Alps are clicky and tactile, but lighter and smoother than whites. All the good Alps boards (with the exception of a very few early Northgates) are white, but they are just too heavy for me.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ricercar on Sat, 11 January 2014, 19:36:42
I found a SiiG SunTouch, a MiniTouch wired for Sun boxes with some sort of blue ALPs (doesn't feel like my Chicony Montereys). It has a DIN5 connector, which is not apparently AT, since it doesn't convert to PS2 with my normal AT-PS2 adapter.

Can anyone say whether this might be XT or did Sun boxes use a special DIN5 connector? Bottom line: is there a converter somewhere for SunTouch to USB, or is this likely to be useful only for harvesting the switches and keycaps?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: hasu on Sat, 11 January 2014, 20:31:56
hmm, I've never seen DIN5 sun connector, Type4/5 has usually mini DIN8. Type3 has DSUB.

If it is Sun(Type3/4/5) it will works with my converter. If you have Teensy around try it.
Type3/4/5 has same SUN serial protocol at least. I don't know about Type1/2.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: lilky on Sun, 12 January 2014, 16:42:12
Never tried an alps board before but I really want to...what switch would you guys recommend to start off with?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 12 January 2014, 19:03:34
It looks like Monterey Blues to me.  Looks just like the ones I had on my Chicony with them.  Nice switches, but the Chicony was so flimsy that it made them feel like crap.  Is the Siig a sturdier board?

What converter are you using?  If it's a passive converter, that might be your problem, otherwise chances are it's XT.

Never tried an alps board before but I really want to...what switch would you guys recommend to start off with?

Depends on what kinds of switches you like.  I've only tried three, Creams, Whites, and Blacks, but of the three, Creams were my preferred.  I've heard good things about Blue and Green Alps though.  There needs to be an Alps switch try, but it's so hard to find different Alps it feels like.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 12 January 2014, 19:05:16
I personally have a thing for any clicky ALPS switch.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 12 January 2014, 19:09:45
Never tried an alps board before but I really want to.

The best are the hardest to find, and vice versa.

The 2 keyboards that are common and cheap are the Dell AT101 (black, tactile) and the Apple Extended Keyboard II (dampened cream, tactile but attenuated). These can be bought on ebay for $10-20 + shipping or found at salvage stores, yard sales, or thrift stores from time to time.

The Dell does not enjoy a very high reputation, but a good fresh one can be pretty nice. I have had several, and recently I got one that was horrible, far worse than ever before, and so don't give up immediately.

The Apple AEK2 is well thought-of by many people, but will require an ADB adapter which will cost $20 on ebay. They are also very prone to yellowing.

The first Apple Extended Keyboard has orange or pink aka salmon Alps which are more tactile and nicer, in my opinion.

I have never had any of the more exotic Alps such as yellow or green, and you are less likely to find them, anyway.

The clicky ones are what I like. White is relatively easy to find (look for a Focus 2001), but too stiff for my tastes. Blue reigns supreme but is not available in any modern board (except for a very few early Northgate Omnikeys) and will likely be pricey.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: tuxsavvy on Sun, 12 January 2014, 19:21:21
Never tried an alps board before but I really want to...what switch would you guys recommend to start off with?

Definitely not APC Clicker based keyboards. I somewhat have noted most (if not all) of the APC Clicker that are floating out there on the Deskthority wiki. Cheap, yes they are (if you paid anything around or over USD$50 for one you are getting ripped off) but they are not the best examples of Alps switches. APC Clicker feel is definitely inconsistent and so it is hard to make very good use of fast(er) typing speeds and cleaning them can be a real pain along with some of the maintanenance that goes along with them.

Despite having touched very few Alps switches, I think the Northgate Omnikey series are formidable. At least for the majority of them the switches are more discrete than APC membrane, uses proper PCB backend (and not membrane sheet) therefore the feel maybe more consistent.

If you are looking for a more modern Alps keyboard. Matias produces some mechanical keyboards with Matias based (which is essentially similar to Alps) switches. I have no idea what typing on Matias switches would be like but at least there will be a vendor/manufacturer backing your keyboard should you have issues with Matias mechanical keyboards.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: lilky on Mon, 13 January 2014, 12:17:44
Never tried an alps board before but I really want to.

The best are the hardest to find, and vice versa.

The 2 keyboards that are common and cheap are the Dell AT101 (black, tactile) and the Apple Extended Keyboard II (dampened cream, tactile but attenuated). These can be bought on ebay for $10-20 + shipping or found at salvage stores, yard sales, or thrift stores from time to time.

The Dell does not enjoy a very high reputation, but a good fresh one can be pretty nice. I have had several, and recently I got one that was horrible, far worse than ever before, and so don't give up immediately.

The Apple AEK2 is well thought-of by many people, but will require an ADB adapter which will cost $20 on ebay. They are also very prone to yellowing.

The first Apple Extended Keyboard has orange or pink aka salmon Alps which are more tactile and nicer, in my opinion.

I have never had any of the more exotic Alps such as yellow or green, and you are less likely to find them, anyway.

The clicky ones are what I like. White is relatively easy to find (look for a Focus 2001), but too stiff for my tastes. Blue reigns supreme but is not available in any modern board (except for a very few early Northgate Omnikeys) and will likely be pricey.


Oh wow, so many types of switches! It's a whole new world out here separate from MX or Topre...

Well, I guess I know what I'll be doing this year for mechanical keyboards...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 13 January 2014, 13:31:01

Oh wow, so many types of switches! It's a whole new world out here separate from MX or Topre.


Alps lovers think that Cherries feel cheap and plasitcky.

Cherry lovers think that Alps feel wobbly.

For me, one of the most endearing traits of Alps is their high actuation point.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 13 January 2014, 15:46:58

Oh wow, so many types of switches! It's a whole new world out here separate from MX or Topre.


Alps lovers think that Cherries feel cheap and plasitcky.

Cherry lovers think that Alps feel wobbly.

For me, one of the most endearing traits of Alps is their high actuation point.


exactly........

i love'em all, but for some reason am still more fond of alps- to each his/her own

alps are not real sexy like mx- keycaps, cases, alps no longer available (complicated unless you want simplified matias), those who prefer a smaller footprint i get it

am hopeful the IC on alps keycaps makes it over to a GB, but that one is still hanging- so we'll just wait and see

i'm not real technical- am more of a user, when you can go out and buy orange, salmon (pink), cream, white mechanical boards all day long if you shop for around 25 bux for those who are starting out that want the switch more than the bling it's a no brainer

of course i respect those who agree to disagree, but i know what works for me


Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 13 January 2014, 15:52:18
alps keycap set for those who are unaware...........

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45879.0
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 15 January 2014, 19:56:01
I found a SiiG SunTouch, a MiniTouch wired for Sun boxes with some sort of blue ALPs (doesn't feel like my Chicony Montereys). It has a DIN5 connector, which is not apparently AT, since it doesn't convert to PS2 with my normal AT-PS2 adapter.

Can anyone say whether this might be XT or did Sun boxes use a special DIN5 connector? Bottom line: is there a converter somewhere for SunTouch to USB, or is this likely to be useful only for harvesting the switches and keycaps?

It would be interesting to know for certain — I didn't realise that was why it was called SunTouch Jr (and likewise the Chicony KB-5181/2 rebadged as the SunTouch K101).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: illy865 on Sat, 18 January 2014, 13:30:51

The first Apple Extended Keyboard has orange or pink aka salmon Alps which are more tactile and nicer, in my opinion.


I've recently gone back into mechanical keyboards and I brought out my old AEK from the garage, got a ADB to USB adapter and it's working perfectly now.  Going back to these Alps switches, the tactile response is awesome.  I cleaned out the inside and bent back the switch actuators and the response is pretty much back to new.  I'm typing better as a result and I feel like the response of the orange Alps even works well for my gaming purposes.  Just glad this wasn't a victim of many years of spring cleaning.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 14:11:11
Just got something looking like some of the first "Dell 101-like" keyboards, same casing as Dell or SGI, made in Japan for the french Bull company (no longer selling PCs), the PCB is made by ALPS, black first gen complicated switches... I've never tested blue switches, but these black switches are pretty nice to type on, I just feel this keyboard needs some silicone grease...

[attachimg=1]

The switches, my camera has a dust detection system^^ :

[attachimg=2]

The ALPS PCB :

[attachimg=3]

Under a keycap :

[attach=5]

Sticker :

[attachimg=4]

It's not the best typing feeling I had, but in second place, just after BS model M, I would surely have prefered blue ALPS, but for 10 euro, not a so bad deal :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 15:06:58
So that's got no model number, FCC ID, serial, anything? Any year on the PCB?

Original black Alps switches (with slits) are pretty uncommon.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bcg on Sat, 18 January 2014, 16:03:37
Just sold a Chicony 5181A 5161A with complicated blues last week on ebay... nice switches if buckling spring is too over the top for you :)  Plus that board was true NKRO.  Was insanely yellow though, ran it through retrobrite a couple times and still didn't get it back to normal... I'm sure if I kept at it though I could have gotten it back to 100%, but I ran out of H2O2 :)  I kind of regret selling it but my keyboard-to-money ratio was getting pretty far out of whack

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

[attach=4]

[attach=5]

EDIT:  PS - I got this board off of Craigslist, I was actually buying a IBM PC 5170 hoping to get a AT Model F (it had a silver label model M tho) and the guy threw in the Chicony board for $5 more :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 16:11:26
That's a 5161A. The 'A' was the NKRO series with blue Alps, Omron B3G-S and Mitsumi switch versions.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bcg on Sat, 18 January 2014, 16:20:39
That's a 5161A. The 'A' was the NKRO series with blue Alps, Omron B3G-S and Mitsumi switch versions.

I stand corrected; as does my previous post :)

In other news I just check the board I'm typing on right now and it has black Alps with slits... they are rare you say?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 16:27:17
Yes. Slits disappeared around 1993, but black Alps are typically only found in the Dell AT101 series, and frequently that's the AT101W/102W which was sold at the very end of the lifetime of black Alps, after the slits were gone. (Black Alps has been found from 1988 to 1996 — http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/alpsk.htm (http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/alpsk.htm))

That's why I'm so curious about kilogeek's keyboard. Most of those were salmon Alps, which for several years was sold as an alternative along with orange. I don't know what the difference is between the three tactile series. We now know that there are two more tactile Alps switches: grey or ivory (SKCMAF, contemporary with blue (SKCMAG) — not 100% sure on the colour from the photo alps.tw posted), and green (listed in a 1994 catalogue with a different force curve).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: daerid on Sat, 18 January 2014, 17:22:35
(http://deskthority.net/resources/image/10930)

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

I'm soooooo excited for this (ErgoDox + Alps)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 17:43:07
So that's got no model number, FCC ID, serial, anything? Any year on the PCB?

Original black Alps switches (with slits) are pretty uncommon.

Yes it does, but did not found any information on the web :
TYPE : KBU 1971
XPU LAR 43667
SKB 1971A-001

I believe this keyboard to be uncommon because the Bull company did not sell PCs for long (86 to 89) and mainly (or only ?) on french market, they were expensive and mainly government or big companies could afford these. They then bought Zenith Data Systems company thus no longer selling 'Bull Micral' PCs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenith_Data_Systems ).

Did not see the year on the PCB, only could see one side, and switches are solded on the PCB and fixed on a thick metal plate in between... Also this PCB seems to have more ICs than on DELL 101 pics I've seen, making me think it could be one of the first series of this kind. Does someone knows which company designed these keyboards ? Not Dell, not SGI, not Bull, so who, ALPS ? Bull could not have bought these to Dell, it's made in Japan and it's a ALPS branded PCB...

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 17:51:00
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micral

Built before 1989 and after 1988 (SKCMAP started in 1988).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 17:51:01
According to the Deskthority wiki, some AT101 keyboards were made by Alps USA, and others (presumably most of them) by Silitek in Taiwan. There are no dates given, only that they were made in the 1990s. I don't know whether it was created as a reference design by Alps, or whether it was originally commissioned by someone like Bull, and then sold to other customers afterwards.

Looks like yours would be 88 or 89, when combining the switch and PC date ranges.

I have a similar curiosity about the SMK second generation platform — a design similarly used by several companies, with no clear history.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 18:13:26
http://www.histoireinform.com/Histoire/+infos6/chr6inf12.htm

This is the computer it was sold with : Bull Micral 200 - 1989

But as internet came to life in 1990 (I mean out of U.S. DOD) it's hard to find informations, although Deskauthority deals with Dell brand but they don't say Dell designed them, when you see many brands having the exact same plastic case models (rear of mine is 100% like SGI granite or DELL 101), IMO this model was made by another company and sold to DELL, SGI, Bull, ... but who and where ? IDK :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 18:53:10
Although it looks close to the FCC-ID GYUM97SK it's not :
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/dell_29858.html
(the steel plate shown here is just there to add weight)

My keycaps use 2 or 3 tinted plastics and they are reinforced, all the alt graph symbols are on front of keys, not top.

sorry for blured pics :

[attachimg=1][attach=2]
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 18:57:05
Here's the other one:

SMK second generation platform (http://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_second_generation_platform)

I am assuming that SMK made them all.

Dell AT101 keyboards were made by Alps USA and Silitek. Here's an early AT101:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/dell_43197.html

Label confirms US manufacture. The FCC grantee (GYI) is Alps Electric (USA) Inc.

I am guessing that Alps designed the keyboard themselves for someone (Bull maybe), and when other companies approached Alps for a keyboard, they decided to purchase an existing product to save the expense of having a new keyboard designed and tooled. It's cheaper to just have your company's logo placed onto an existing product than to have a whole new keyboard designed. It's only with designs such as the banana keyboard (Micral 200/AT101/Granite) that companies don't seem to care that they're shipping a distinctive keyboard that was not their design. Apple always had custom-designed keyboard made.

I don't know how the design got moved to Silitek though — did they sell the tooling, or did Silitek retool from scratch? I know that, with the AppleDesign keyboard, the Alps and NMB versions were very similar yet clearly different, so each company had tooled up independently with separate production lines.

Also, it looks like Alps USA used salmon Alps, while Silitek used black Alps, which is curious.

Silitek's FCC IDs are weird:

GYUM90SK   06/13/1997
GYUM91SK   10/11/1995
GYUM92SK   06/26/1995
GYUM93SK   10/28/1994
GYUM95SK   02/01/1994
GYUM96SK   09/09/1993
GYUM97SK   01/09/1992
GYUM98SK   11/06/1991
GYUM99SK   04/02/1991

Looks like M for mechanical, R for rubber dome.

The earliest one used for the Dell keyboard was the GYUM97SK, from 1992, which is exactly when orange and salmon Alps were last seen. I don't know if Alps forced the decision to move production to Silitek Taiwan, or whether some decision relating to this move led to the discontinuation of salmon and orange Alps. Tactile Alps were not that common, and by 1992 Apple had moved over to the damped switches. I don't know what GYUM99SK and GYUM98SK were; Google suggests GYUM98SK does not exist, and GYUM99SK is mentioned as a "SILITED" keyboard in some motherboard manual.

By the way, I've only used bamboo blacks (no slits) in my AT102W and they suck, but it may be that pine blacks (early, with slits) are OK.

As for the double-shot keycaps — that's another mystery: who made them? The moulding style is very distinctive.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 19:40:34
Keycaps may have been made anywhere following Bull requirements, even in France... the fact it's written "made in Japan" does not mean Bull bought ready-to-sell keyboards, who knows ? The fact they look old is because they are, and also because they yellowed, and as I'm lazy I first tried to bleach them (retrobright method for keycaps ?) but with a bit too much % chlore, anyway, camera flash shows them older then you see them...^^  The only thing I can say ATM is typing is a bit less clicky than on model M, but roughly the same, as is the weight : 1.5 Kg
I really have a tactile feedback and a firm shock when key is fully down (not like on rubber domes).
You may not see it on pics but they also added small black rubber pads under space bar and enter keys to make them a bit less noisy (I guess), you can see one of these on my 1st post, the black switches pic. Also, keycaps feel like heavy, even if they are not, exactly the feeling I had with my IBM model M. Forgot to say it's a 5 pins big DIN connector and a curled cable.
But taking a look at the PCB, for sure it's not NKRO.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 19:54:49
Keycaps may have been made anywhere following Bull requirements, even in France...

Those keycaps are fairly common, and the moulding technique is very distinctive. I've just checked MouseFan's site, and the only examples I could find were from the same keyboard:

Mitsubishi version: http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/sharpax.htm
HP version: http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/c1414a.htm

Toshiba examples:

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/toshiba-t3100-t5200-t4711.html

Instead of stripes, the whole inside is the legend colour, with a row of square holes down each side. A single company is likely to have been responsible, but I have no idea who.

Most doubleshots seem to have been made by Tai-Hao, and they're still made to this day exactly as they were over 20 years ago.

The only thing I can say ATM is typing is a bit less clicky than on model M

They're not clicky switches, but you're right that they're loud. I've replaced most of the black Alps uppers in my AT102W with the uppers of blue Alps from an old Monterey keyboard.

I really have a tactile feedback and a firm shock when key is fully down (not like on rubber domes).

That sounds like pine blacks were superior, then. My AT102W is actually less tactile than a typical rubber dome. The switches really are horrible. The keyboard sounds nice, but feels bad.

I don't understand what MouseFan thinks changed when the slits disappeared (Google Translate can't deal with Chinese and Japanese to English), but something necessitated creating new moulds. Also, a lot of later white switches had the mould numbering hand-carved into the moulds, indicating cheaper production values; I've never seen this with blank switches though. I'm guessing that whatever they did, also destroyed the feel of the switches. It's possible that production was moved to Forward Electronics in Taiwan at this time, who were Alps's manufacturing partner for 30 years, and the company responsible for simplified Alps. This could have resulted in retooling and therefore new moulds.

It's all speculation though.

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 22:53:26
Yes they are exactly the same kind of keycaps, 100% identical inner reinforcements, doubleshooting 2nd plastic is top and front on small keys but top and all sides on large keys like Enter or Del key. Could be done by the company you are mentionning, but plastic injection can be done in Japan too, as long as the 3D pattern is not patented (I don't see how you can patent that, it's not an invention, just a design), as this is automated production. Anyway, they seem to have interesting current ALPS stuff there : http://www.tai-hao.com/
no they don't :/

So that's good news, meaning I could replace my keyset, even if this type of keycap is not the most common.

These black switches are definitely better than any even good dome I've tried, so as you said there may be 2 quality level. But maybe if you make me try blue switch I'll tell you black sucks. The only thing I can say is I like these 100x more than cherry linear switches (black or red) where you just have 0 feedback, only the spring force when you have to hold on a key for a while...
I must receive an almost new Compaq soon (10 euro, good deal), the one with trackball and cherry brown, will then know if I'm ALPS for ever or not^^

thanks :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sun, 19 January 2014, 07:11:56
Tai-Hao still make Alps clone switches and Alps keycaps, and Alps clone keyboards. I don't know if you saw the recent group buy of Cherry MX doubleshot keycaps from Tai-Hao? They also still do Alps doubleshots, so there is the option of a group buy of those. Reviews of one of their keyboards suggest that their keyboards are quite unreliable — I don't know if the switches fail, or the soldering. The switches seemed pretty robust to me.

I still believe that those keycaps all come from a single company, quite possibly Alps themselves.

At the moment, I am not aware that anyone has been keeping track of keycap style per keyboard; I just happen to recognise that style as I've seen it so many times before, but I don't have a list of where I've seen it, and likely companies to have made the keyboards, or whether any of the keyboards had switches that were not made by Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Fri, 24 January 2014, 18:14:17
These keyboards do indeed appear to be designed and manufactured by Alps. Sandy notes that they were listed in the 1994 Alps catalogue as OEM keyboards with part numbers KFCMEA and KFCLEA, totalling six variants. This is the "Big Foot" keyboard, that gave Alps SKCL/SKCM switches their "Big Foot" name. These keyboards were supplied with the AX architecture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AX_architecture) computers, from various vendors, and were also sold to Dell, Bull etc.

We're uncertain as to what happened with the Dell keyboards. There is a possibility that Silitek cloned it and Dell took their business away from Alps. It appears that the Silitek AT101 keyboards were on sale before Alps discontinued the KFCMEA/KFCLEA keyboard series. This is speculation; it's also possible that Alps licensed the design rights to Silitek, and that everything was conducted above board. All we know is that Silitek started selling keyboards that seemingly look identical to Alps "Big Foot" keyboards, but with reduced quality. I don't think I've ever taken mine apart to check the PCB.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 27 February 2014, 18:26:47
So in picked up an apple AEK with what appears to be white alps.  My question is this, are the supposed to be clicky or just tactile?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 27 February 2014, 18:41:30
AFAIK, White Alps should generally be clicky, but sometimes you can find dampened White Alps.  And old White Alps can  sometimes age to the color of Cream Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: niubio on Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:06:32
Thanks to a random coincidence, I've tried green linear Alps today (or some sort of a clone - for details see my NTC thread). What can I say, they rock! I've used whites and blacks before and have a huge sentiment for them, but OMG, those greens... They are the best "linears" in the world! Like they were designed for me!

I've read the whole thread. You guys have some fantastic units or even collections! Now I must try blue Alps :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:24:39
So in picked up an apple AEK with what appears to be white alps.  My question is this, are the supposed to be clicky or just tactile?
AEK or AEK II? I don’t know any AEKs with clicky switches, but it’s possible.

Most AEKs used orange tactile switches. Most AEK IIs used cream dampened tactile switches.

The “cream” color is pretty light, but cream sliders distinctly different from the white sliders.

It’s of course also possible that someone swapped the switches. :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 27 February 2014, 20:13:21
So in picked up an apple AEK with what appears to be white alps.  My question is this, are the supposed to be clicky or just tactile?
AEK or AEK II? I don’t know any AEKs with clicky switches, but it’s possible.

Most AEKs used orange tactile switches. Most AEK IIs used cream dampened tactile switches.

The “cream” color is pretty light, but cream sliders distinctly different from the white sliders.

It’s of course also possible that someone swapped the switches. :)

Well I just looked at it again and it is an AEKII.  I have pulled a couple switches apart.  I didn't take that close of a look at them.  I just followed a link from Simple Q&A thread then to Ripsters guide.  It is complicated I just don't remember if it had the 2 or the 4 legs on the leaf.  Modifying this post as soon as it is posted to add a pic from my phone.  To lazy to get the cord and move the file over.

[attach=1]

Here is a shot of it from the top before I tore into it.

[attach=2]
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 27 February 2014, 22:58:41
Well I just looked at it again and it is an AEKII.  I have pulled a couple switches apart.  I didn't take that close of a look at them.
Okay, well the dampened switches are relatively quiet to type on, because the slider has a little piece of black rubber stuck in each side, which is what hits the plastic at the bottom or top of the switch housing (dampening the sound).

By contrast, clicky switches will have a metal leaf which makes a loud click when it springs back, after being released when the slider passes the actuation point (tactile switches have a similar leaf, but it doesn’t do the same kind of clicky snapping).

They’re pretty hard to get confused for one another, once you try typing on them.

Apparently later versions (~1995) of the dampened tactile switches have white colored sliders instead of cream (“ivory”) color: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_White_Damped
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Fri, 28 February 2014, 02:50:55
Just post a photo of the switch : )
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: qnaal on Fri, 28 February 2014, 23:49:46
I've got a beat-up focus 2001 keyboard, which I guess has alps-clone switches- could anyone tell me what it might be worth?
For parts or something- missing tilde and f2 keycaps, and the tilde's mount post is chipped.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 28 February 2014, 23:54:59
I've got a beat-up focus 2001 keyboard, which I guess has alps-clone switches- could anyone tell me what it might be worth?
For parts or something- missing tilde and f2 keycaps, and the tilde's mount post is chipped.

Hit up the price check thread in classifieds.  The fact that it's missing caps and is an Alps clone, however, will make a cheap board even cheaper.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 01 March 2014, 09:06:52
I've got a beat-up focus 2001 keyboard, which I guess has alps-clone switches

Does it have Windows keys? The later ones are OK but less desirable, the earlier ones have really nice multi-color keys.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: qnaal on Sat, 01 March 2014, 12:31:11
I've got a beat-up focus 2001 keyboard, which I guess has alps-clone switches

Does it have Windows keys? The later ones are OK but less desirable, the earlier ones have really nice multi-color keys.

It has windows keys- no colors or anything just black doubleshot.
And the switches are white.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 01 March 2014, 12:40:06
You should find that the Windows and menu keys are pad printed, while the rest are doubleshot.

That's from my assumption that they're Tai-Hao doubleshots, and from Tai-Hao only being able to pad print those keys presently.

The switches will presumably be the T1 type shown here (compare the numbering):

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-2001
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: qnaal on Sat, 01 March 2014, 14:12:26
You should find that the Windows and menu keys are pad printed, while the rest are doubleshot.

That's from my assumption that they're Tai-Hao doubleshots, and from Tai-Hao only being able to pad print those keys presently.
Correct- I couldn't tell at first, because of the lack of a decal-like splotch, but the printing on those has a different texture from the rest of the board.

The switches will presumably be the T1 type shown here (compare the numbering):

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-2001
Yup- they each have four characters printed on them like that t1 picture.
"2F76" and "1H37" and whatnot.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 01 March 2014, 14:55:11
Ah, so that does appear to confirm Tai-Hao caps. Seems like they never created doubleshot tooling for those extra keys.

And yes, Alps clones.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Sun, 02 March 2014, 19:28:02
I got another Model M which looks new once washed, but I have it on a shelf and plugged back my lubbed black ALPS !
I find it now much more a pleasure to use than the model M !

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: simon_C on Sun, 02 March 2014, 22:34:09
Whoa is that thing covered in astroturf?

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 02 March 2014, 22:38:44
I have a bowling ball with texture like that. It's funny because last week I just switched from a Model M to a Dell AT101W at work. I wouldn't say I prefer it to the Model M, but I like to change things up from time to time for variety.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:02:34
It's an epoxy-sugar layer (you can't have it slide from your hands lol) but it's a glossy epoxy, so I'm gonna add a mate clear layer to give it a real tanky look :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:06:37
I have a bowling ball with texture like that. It's funny because last week I just switched from a Model M to a Dell AT101W at work. I wouldn't say I prefer it to the Model M, but I like to change things up from time to time for variety.

did you lubbed your AT101 switches ? I recommand, you'll get 2x the pleasure to type !
(mine has the 1st gen complicated ALPS and was all lubbed silicon, awesome result)
None of my collection KBs have such a nice typing feeling, even my compaq g80-11800 (brown MX) sucks compare to this one !
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:39:50
I should probally lube my at101w

what kind is best?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:50:50
IDK, I used LOUISE DIFF OIL 7000 and I'm glad with the results.

But I know RO-59 to be the best and I can't get it in France, maybe online shop...

I'll post here an ALPS lubbing guide because the one you may find on Deskthaurity is not top IMO,
need to take pics again to show exactly which parts must be lubbed for best result.

++
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:54:37
cool thx :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 03 March 2014, 04:23:42
Sounds great. Even just a couple sentences of text explaining which parts you lubricated would be helpful.

Here's one Deskthority post: http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/pink-vs-orange-alps-t1181-30.html#p57053
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 07:29:44
First of all, last shot of the final result with a mate clear added : tank theme :)

[attachimg=1]

The guide is coming, I will start a thread just for it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 03 March 2014, 07:38:15
Yours has certainly beat mine out of the park.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 07:53:54
Yours has certainly beat mine out of the park.

Great one too^^

But the best is to come : Desert Storm  with epoxy and sand on a Model M , haha
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 09:56:36
I've written the ALPS lubbing guide here : http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55456.msg1244670#msg1244670

enjoy !
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 03 March 2014, 10:04:49
FYI, it's lubing, not lubbing and lube, not lub. 
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 10:52:25
FYI, it's lubing, not lubbing and lube, not lub.

Viens me parler en français tu fera moins le malin XD
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 03 March 2014, 12:55:56
Wasn't trying to be hostile, just trying to correct that small thing since I've seen it being repeated. 
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 14:16:05
I did not mean you were hostile, but english is not my mother tongue so it always takes me more time to post things, mainly when using words I only recently learned : to lube = lubrifier, so you lube with lube ? correct ?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 03 March 2014, 14:32:38
I did not mean you were hostile, but english is not my mother tongue so it always takes me more time to post things, mainly when using words I only recently learned : to lube = lubrifier, so you lube with lube ? correct ?
In English, the the noun is ‘lubricant’ and the verb is ‘to lubricate’. These get shortened to ‘lube’ and ‘to lube’. The other forms would be ‘lubed’, ‘lubing’, etc.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 03 March 2014, 14:35:19
I did not mean you were hostile, but english is not my mother tongue so it always takes me more time to post things, mainly when using words I only recently learned : to lube = lubrifier, so you lube with lube ? correct ?

Ah, ok. I haven't done much French anything in years, so I misread the tone of your comment.  The language issue plus the fact that it's the impersonal internet can make things come off differently.

Yes, you lube with lube.  So you will lube your keyboard, you are lubing your keyboard, you lubed your keyboard.  It's one of those verbs where you don't add a second letter of the ending consonant when you conjugate.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Techno Trousers on Mon, 03 March 2014, 21:44:24
That sounds cool! I'm still using the stock black Alps, but one of my upcoming projects is to swap in New Matias click Alps switches into one. I've always preferred the clicky Alps versions myself.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: simon_C on Sat, 15 March 2014, 05:07:19
I'm now starting to get a bit of an itch to design an 84 key board with alps switches... i forgot how much i like typing on alps. They have a nice mechanical pop to them.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Shayde on Sat, 15 March 2014, 14:08:37
I'm now starting to get a bit of an itch to design an 84 key board with alps switches... i forgot how much i like typing on alps. They have a nice mechanical pop to them.

I'm the same, I've been day-dreaming about doing this, but have yet to make the commitment to start.  The main thing for me is I love my back-lighting, and this makes the project considerably more complicated.  So I'm not sure I would get enough enjoyment out of the board for the investment in time and money.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: blackbox on Sat, 15 March 2014, 14:30:15
AT102W owner here. The ISO (102) layout seems very rare. Black complicated tactile ALPS. Currently looking for a complete ISO set of blank ALPS caps.

Show Image
(http://a.pomf.se/8Lz8.jpg)


Luckily I have an old broken AT102W with about 100 ALPS switches. I'd like to keep a few for when i need to perform surgery on mine (happened under the black caps), but if anyone needs one or two, I could perhaps take them off.

I have an AT102w too. What kind paint did you use to paint it?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 15 March 2014, 14:51:30
I have an AT102w too. What kind paint did you use to paint it?

AT101Ws came in black, presumably 102s did also.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 20 May 2014, 19:48:22
I'm now starting to get a bit of an itch to design an 84 key board with alps switches... i forgot how much i like typing on alps. They have a nice mechanical pop to them.

About time to necro this thread.

My Filco Zero (thanks Moose!) now has blue Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: blackbox on Wed, 21 May 2014, 02:52:35
I'm now starting to get a bit of an itch to design an 84 key board with alps switches... i forgot how much i like typing on alps. They have a nice mechanical pop to them.

About time to necro this thread.

My Filco Zero (thanks Moose!) now has blue Alps.

Nice! How long did it take to switch it(question for Moose)?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:02:11
Nice! How long did it take to switch it?

I did the switch transplant. Removing the old ones is much harder than installing the new ones.

Depending on how efficient you are, I would suggest allowing an hour each for removing switches from the 2 boards and another hour for installing the new ones. If you are good and have good tools you might cut those times in half.

For me, when I have the thing completely apart, I use the opportunity to do a thorough cleaning, and often paint the plate, too.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: blackbox on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:13:35
Nice! How long did it take to switch it?

I did the switch transplant. Removing the old ones is much harder than installing the new ones.

Depending on how efficient you are, I would suggest allowing an hour each for removing switches from the 2 boards and another hour for installing the new ones. If you are good and have good tools you might cut those times in half.

For me, when I have the thing completely apart, I use the opportunity to do a thorough cleaning, and often paint the plate, too.

nice. I switch swapped on two of my keyboards. one alps (dell at102w) and one cherry mx (CM QF XT). I have used a weller desoldering iron and I find it to be very easy to do with that tool.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:18:17
I switch swapped on two of my keyboards. one alps (dell at102w)

My tools are the cheapest possible crap, but they do OK.

I filled a Dell AT101W with orange Alps from an old Apple, and whoever had built the Dell had bent over *every single leg* of every switch and I am not kidding.

Afterwards it is a fantastically sweet board, however!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Grimey on Wed, 21 May 2014, 08:37:41
I filled a Dell AT101W with orange Alps from an old Apple, and whoever had built the Dell had bent over *every single leg* of every switch and I am not kidding.

This is also my experience with all 4 of the AT101Ws I have taken apart.  It is quite annoying when you compare the work required to get these bent legged switches out compared to straight legged ones.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 21 May 2014, 09:36:54
I filled a Dell AT101W with orange Alps from an old Apple, and whoever had built the Dell had bent over *every single leg* of every switch and I am not kidding.

This is also my experience with all 4 of the AT101Ws I have taken apart.  It is quite annoying when you compare the work required to get these bent legged switches out compared to straight legged ones.


I have done a few as well. Usually I find only 5%-10% bent over, randomly around the board.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 21 May 2014, 14:28:07
I don’t find unbending the leads to be *that* bad, once I came up with a strategy for it. Here’s what I do:

(1) Remove the solder as with any unbent lead; I use a soldapullt. Do this for the whole board.
(2) Stick the pointy bent end of a little bent dental pick under a bent-over lead, apply a soldering iron to the lead/pad, and pry upward a bit until the lead unsticks from the pad/hole. At this point the lead is detached from the pad but still bent over. Do this for all bent leads. Usually it doesn’t take much pressure to unstick the lead from the pad and this is very easy; sometimes it’s tricky when the pad wants to lift up off the board. Don’t let it.
(3) Use a pair of small snipe-nosed pliers to unbend each bent lead.
(4) Verify that all leads are properly unstuck from the circuit board, and remove any screws holding the circuit board to the plate, etc., then just pick the circuit board up, as it should be completely loose now.
(5) Carefully remove the switches from the plate. If the plate is tight, then for Alps switches try to push the little plastic "wings" in on one side and then on the other while pulling the switch out of the plate, as otherwise they have a tendency to break.

On average, a switch with bent-over leads takes about twice as much effort to remove as one where the leads are straight. This is annoying, but not impossibly bad.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Tue, 12 August 2014, 04:00:34
ALPS fans  :D
IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86
Some high resolution pictures updated!!!
http://xiangce.baidu.com/picture/album/list/5a6c7908687be23f1d2ef80de074fe040d81c660?isscore=1#pic

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:20:51
IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86

Pictures, or it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:23:50
Agreed, please show us some pictures :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:03:02
Agreed, please show us some pictures :D

It's coming! ;D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: calavera on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:06:52
IBM blue alps that's cool and weird at the same time.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:21:04
Mind-blowing.

The 1390131 always was my favorite, I am astonished that this did not get a different model number.

Are those keycaps all the same profile? Even more implausible!

Now we can start dreaming about 2-piece Alps keys with interchangeable caps!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:30:25
ALPS fans  :D IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86
You have me pretty confused about how you made this picture. Could you please take a picture of one keycap from each row from the side and one keycap from each row from the bottom? (i.e. just pull them off and set them next to each other on a table)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:30:41
That's definitely a mod. A nice mod, though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Parak on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:42:55
IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 12 August 2014, 21:24:30
(http://i.imgur.com/bZOP6ya.jpg)

That's definitely a mod. A nice mod, though.

That or they stuck a different keyboard into the case.



My thought too.  Not the video, but the fakeness of it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Jotokun on Tue, 12 August 2014, 22:34:53
The logo gives it away. It's not set into the plastic, but on top of it. Seems to be little more than one of those Model M case look-alikes with the IBM badge glued on top. The keycaps likely came from an IBM PS/2 luggable, since they often used ALPS or ALPS mount switches.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Hak Foo on Wed, 13 August 2014, 00:18:51
The donor board is sort of interesting though... Costar-style stabilizers, and matching the 1390131 layout exactly.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 00:49:42
The donor board is sort of interesting though... Costar-style stabilizers, and matching the 1390131 layout exactly.
I’m also curious about that. Most of the Alps boards I’ve seen with costar-style stabilizers had a “bigass enter” key.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 01:07:59
The logo gives it away. It's not set into the plastic, but on top of it. Seems to be little more than one of those Model M case look-alikes with the IBM badge glued on top. The keycaps likely came from an IBM PS/2 luggable, since they often used ALPS or ALPS mount switches.
No, the keycaps are definitely not the same as the ones on a P70/P75 luggable.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Grim Fandango on Wed, 13 August 2014, 01:46:38
I have used and really liked the Matias Quiet Alps.

They are however very heavy in my opinion. Because of this they are probably not for everyone. I still really like them, but eventually decided against using them as my daily driver. Some people on this forum described them as though they feel like browns. In my own opinion, this is very inaccurate.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 01:58:47
I agree Matias switches are of a medium-heavy weight. I personally would prefer them if they were maybe 10 grams-force less to actuate. You can change the stiffness by replacing the spring or cutting some loops off.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 13 August 2014, 02:40:28
That Alps IBM Model M … just, wow.

The top row keycaps are too tall, presumably to compensate for not having a curved PCB and plate. The legends are spot on, though.

Do want.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 03:20:19
In IRC, we’re pretty much all convinced it’s a photoshop job. Pretty cutely done though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 13 August 2014, 03:24:30
If it's Photoshopped, why would you draw the IBM badge incorrectly?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 13 August 2014, 18:13:00
If that's done in Photoshop, then he's gone to a lot of trouble to get the SysRq legend consistently wrong in both of the photos it appears in.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 13 August 2014, 20:07:15
Had me going, there for a while.

So, is it agreed that this is a hoax?

The photo show inconsistencies in heights and fit, but it was pretty clever anyway!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Wed, 13 August 2014, 21:33:59
Had me going, there for a while.

So, is it agreed that this is a hoax?

The photo show inconsistencies in heights and fit, but it was pretty clever anyway!
Please be patient...
I will take pictures and upload all pictures, including key caps, circuit boards and case
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 21 August 2014, 14:31:16
Please be patient...
I will take pictures and upload all pictures, including key caps, circuit boards and case
Uh huh...

Cute prank though. Kudos.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Sun, 24 August 2014, 23:07:30
U are Right :D
 It's faked IBM M Keyboard that is made in by Taiwan
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Mon, 25 August 2014, 06:14:49
Was this a commercial product, then, or a demonstration?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jadoob on Thu, 28 August 2014, 23:12:14
Ok, just to change directions a bit from this fake IBM Alps nonsense for a sec and going back to the Matias talk.

I recently bought an Omnikey 102 locally and decided to restore it. All the switches are good except one. So I decide why not try the only company that still makes Alps switches, Matias (seemed alot easier than finding a used parts-only board.)

The results are not even close. I had read someone on this forum that mentioned a hollow sound from the Matias clickies that thought maybe it was because the Matias boards were all PCB mounted. This is not the case, this keyboard the keys are mounted on a thick plate of steel. I'm sure they are great to type on but they are not drop-in replacements for complicated white alps for anyone doing restorations on those type of boards.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 28 August 2014, 23:37:14
The sound and feel is remarkably dependent on the system they're in.

The same Matias switches sounded very different in a Dell AT101W (super-thick steel plate) and a Ducky 1008XM (thin plate and PCB).  Neither sounded quite like the Simplified Whites on a like-new Focus 2001.

I will also suggest wear and dirt and age-- if one switch is fully defunct, others may have a fair bit of mileage on them.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 29 August 2014, 00:26:29
The results are not even close. I had read someone on this forum that mentioned a hollow sound from the Matias clickies that thought maybe it was because the Matias boards were all PCB mounted. This is not the case, this keyboard the keys are mounted on a thick plate of steel. I'm sure they are great to type on but they are not drop-in replacements for complicated white alps for anyone doing restorations on those type of boards.
Matias clicky switches feel somewhat similar to complicated Alps switches, but they definitely don’t sound the same. This is because they have only two little pieces of metal for the actual switch contact, instead of a very complicated switchplate assembly. I still like them though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: absyrd on Sat, 30 August 2014, 07:11:42
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/JayRocka/Chicony7000_PlateMount.jpg)

Chicony KB 7000. Complicated whites. Used and loved it for many years!

Don't ask me how, but I lost the top part of the case when I moved.  :'(

Probably just going to snatch all the switches out of it and grab the doubleshots as I don't use it anymore due to sheer size.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jameslr on Sat, 30 August 2014, 12:59:21
My latest and first Complicated White ALPS board: Focus FK-2001. Bought it on ebay in like new condition.

(http://i.imgur.com/IakiNUZ.jpg)

Full album:
http://imgur.com/a/sYdzk/all
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: dustinhxc on Mon, 01 September 2014, 09:39:58

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6bYBr3L.jpg)


sup

Damn, love this orange..   :thumb: Do you still have it?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Mon, 08 September 2014, 19:14:46
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 08 September 2014, 19:18:54
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :p

That is one wonky looking board.  Love it.  How do you like the Yellow Alps?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Mon, 08 September 2014, 19:35:20
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :p

That is one wonky looking board.  Love it.  How do you like the Yellow Alps?

New Alps board is trustworthy, this yellow board is very very smooth.
I want to get a ALPS blue board, but it's a pity that I couldn't find it. :(

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 09 September 2014, 04:26:35
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :p
OMG, I would love to have one of these. Lucky Japanese people get all the good stuff. In the west the people making decisions about keyboard design for big computer companies are lazy and cheap.

If you know of any others, I’m sure Jesse (Obra) of keyboard.io would love to buy one.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: yasuo on Tue, 14 October 2014, 02:28:47
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :p
:eek: magnefecent, i interest get one sym sgg vers. like hasu have :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Tue, 23 December 2014, 22:21:39
New ALPS board!!!
All swithes are ALPS SKCL grey  with LED in entire PCB
 ^-^

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 23 December 2014, 22:28:32
New ALPS board!!!
All swithes are ALPS SKCL grey  with LED in entire PCB
 ^-^

Not gonna lie, that's badass and I'm jealous.  What board is that?  And how do the Greys compare to Green and Yellow Alps?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 23 December 2014, 22:59:07
About to add switches with orange springs and leafs and tall APC black sliders to my omnikey once I get my lube from CTRL ALT. I'll make sure to post pics here :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Tue, 23 December 2014, 23:20:41
Slightly heavier than the Yellow switch
short white switchplate,no logo,slits

The board on the back of  was printed "ALPS 56AAA1165F SP-80"

=====
sry, I made a mistake. All switches have a logo

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: hasu on Tue, 23 December 2014, 23:43:40
A variant of IBM LPFK?
Looks really nice.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mr.squishy on Wed, 24 December 2014, 00:05:04
I've got an M0116, you guys want some pics?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 24 December 2014, 10:42:59
Slightly heavier than the Yellow switch

When you say "slightly heavier", it should be 50% heavier (88 cN vs 59 cN according to the 1994 catalogue) — does that seem correct to you?

I've yet to see anyone report that the grey one feels as heavy as the catalogue says that it should, but I don't think anyone's even estimated the weight yet (stacking coins is enough to get a ball park estimate). I don't know that there isn't more than one linear grey, either :-)

Also, you say "no logo" — some definitely have a logo. Are the some with a logo and some without? I can't tell from the photos.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread - My new-old keyboard :)
Post by: Zoli on Sun, 13 September 2015, 06:21:47
Well, here is my new-old Dell :)
Had it around, took it out , cleaned it, now it is back serving, fully functioning. All keys working. It feels good to type on it :)
The only problem seemed to be the Space key sometimes not working, took a look and found out that it was actually a fabrication defect. One pin was superficially flooded with solder, it loosened (center of image, pin on the right).

[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
[attach=4][attach=5][attach=6]
 Soldered it, now it is perfect.
 
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 13 September 2015, 08:21:07

Well, here is my new-old Dell
 

The yellowed space bar leads me to believe that you probably have the PBT caps. If so, they are quite desirable by themselves.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Sun, 13 September 2015, 08:39:24
The best AT101 version! :D the caps on that one are really nice :) .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Zoli on Sun, 13 September 2015, 08:58:36

Well, here is my new-old Dell
 

The yellowed space bar leads me to believe that you probably have the PBT caps. If so, they are quite desirable by themselves.

They are PBT caps indeed :) The whole thing feels massive as a tank and works just fine.
The layout is unusual though, I can not make it work. Not much of annoyance, Dvorak layout works as expected. If anyone of you have an idea about the layout settings needed for English on Debian (I'm on Wheezy), let me know please, thanks!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Bucake on Tue, 15 September 2015, 01:45:47
been searching the webs for hours searching a linear complicated alps board, but can't anything.
were so few made? or are they just so unpopular? because boards with tactile alps pop up everywhere..
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Zoli on Tue, 15 September 2015, 02:20:32
What is a linear complicated alps board like?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 15 September 2015, 08:03:46
been searching the webs for hours searching a linear complicated alps board,

Searches for ancient obscure Alps boards take weeks or months, not hours.

I think that a lot of early Zeniths had linear greens, which are highly prized.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 15 September 2015, 16:46:45
There are a at least a couple of green Alps boards currently on US ebay, but they’re pretty steep in price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121747977710
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111761904156
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 15 September 2015, 17:32:59
One of these days I'm going to decide if I want to sell, cannibalize, or keep my three green alps boards.  It is hard to pin down a fair price on the ZKB-2.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 17:40:07
This may be a dumb question, but what makes a linear switch better/worse than the others? I mean, it's linear. Smoothness, maybe?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 15 September 2015, 17:48:44
There are a at least a couple of green Alps boards currently on US ebay, but they’re pretty steep in price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121747977710
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111761904156

ZKB-5s came in Yellow and Green Alps (I've only seen Yellow).  Did they pull a key for you?  It would suck for someone to buy it and get Yellow instead of Green, especially at that price.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 15 September 2015, 19:36:33
This may be a dumb question, but what makes a linear switch better/worse than the others? I mean, it's linear. Smoothness, maybe?

As a huge broad oversimplification, typists like tactility so that they know when they have activated their character.

Gamers like linear switches because they can be faster when pressing multiple times in quick succession.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 19:38:05
This may be a dumb question, but what makes a linear switch better/worse than the others? I mean, it's linear. Smoothness, maybe?

As a huge broad oversimplification, typists like tactility so that they know when they have activated their character.

Gamers like linear switches because they can be faster when pressing multiple times in quick succession.

Sorry, my question wasn't clear. What makes one type of linear switch (say, green Alps) better than another linear switch (e.g., MX Blacks)?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:10:24
This may be a dumb question, but what makes a linear switch better/worse than the others? I mean, it's linear. Smoothness, maybe?

As a huge broad oversimplification, typists like tactility so that they know when they have activated their character.

Gamers like linear switches because they can be faster when pressing multiple times in quick succession.

Sorry, my question wasn't clear. What makes one type of linear switch (say, green Alps) better than another linear switch (e.g., MX Blacks)?

Green Alps, to me at least, are smoother and are less wobbly through the throw than MX Black.  They also have a more pleasant weight.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:41:09
Totally agree with nubbinator. I'd rather have Green Alps over any MX-mount switch. Although Gateron Blacks is making me think twice before saying that
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:49:59
Totally agree with nubbinator. I'd rather have Green Alps over any MX-mount switch. Although Gateron Blacks is making me think twice before saying that

I've got a board arriving tomorrow with Gateron Blacks. If I don't like them, I'm writing off linears for good.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Bucake on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:56:56
Green Alps, to me at least, are smoother and are less wobbly through the throw than MX Black.  They also have a more pleasant weight.

right!
i used to own a zenith with green alps, and cherry mx switches have never felt as satisfying to me. they feel somewhat scratchy and plastic-y, in comparison.

One of these days I'm going to decide if I want to sell, cannibalize, or keep my three green alps boards.  It is hard to pin down a fair price on the ZKB-2.

are all three ZKB2 boards? :-X
if you ever decide to sell one, i'd like to know! :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:15:20
Green Alps, to me at least, are smoother and are less wobbly through the throw than MX Black.  They also have a more pleasant weight.

right!
i used to own a zenith with green alps, and cherry mx switches have never felt as satisfying to me. they feel somewhat scratchy and plastic-y, in comparison.

One of these days I'm going to decide if I want to sell, cannibalize, or keep my three green alps boards.  It is hard to pin down a fair price on the ZKB-2.

are all three ZKB2 boards? :-X
if you ever decide to sell one, i'd like to know! :p

Yeah.  They were used by some old equipment that my lab was throwing away, so they sort of disappeared on the way to the dumpster.  Funny how that happens.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:16:37
I think I am about to begin my journey into the world of Alps.  I'll be sure to bug you experts with all of my questions in the future.  For now, it's time to start up the research.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:33:01
I think I am about to begin my journey into the world of Alps.  I'll be sure to bug you experts with all of my questions in the future.  For now, it's time to start up the research.

We discussed switch comparisons in the Alps 60% thread the other day if you want to know more.  I compiled a list of Chyros' Alps reviews (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854189#msg1854189), CPTBadass linked his reviews (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854207#msg1854207), and Chyros himself offered some succinct opinions (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854281#msg1854281).  You might find it interesting/useful.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 16 September 2015, 03:53:40
I think I am about to begin my journey into the world of Alps.  I'll be sure to bug you experts with all of my questions in the future.  For now, it's time to start up the research.

We discussed switch comparisons in the Alps 60% thread the other day if you want to know more.  I compiled a list of Chyros' Alps reviews (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854189#msg1854189), CPTBadass linked his reviews (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854207#msg1854207), and Chyros himself offered some succinct opinions (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854281#msg1854281).  You might find it interesting/useful.
Thanks man. I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nuclearsandwich on Sat, 21 November 2015, 15:19:31
I've been afk for like six months, what Alps projects have rolled out recently?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ctm on Sat, 21 November 2015, 15:34:46
I entered the world of ALPS with KBP V60 with Matias quiet switches. I totally love it! I find its tactile feedback more appealing to me than Cherry. It's my favorite switch so far. I might try some vintage ALPS in the future but I feel ambivalent on that. Original ALPS are about 20 years old in average and switches do wear out over time. If my favorite switches die and I can't find replacement for it, that will be very sad...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 21 November 2015, 16:01:18
I've been afk for like six months, what Alps projects have rolled out recently?
The Alps Party 60% GB by BlueNalgene with hasu's PCBs, Matias switches and stabilizers, plates designed by Blue and me.

njbair's Alpine Winter DCS keycap group buy.
I entered the world of ALPS with KBP V60 with Matias quiet switches. I totally love it! I find its tactile feedback more appealing to me than Cherry. It's my favorite switch so far. I might try some vintage ALPS in the future but I feel ambivalent on that. Original ALPS are about 20 years old in average and switches do wear out over time. If my favorite switches die and I can't find replacement for it, that will be very sad...
I'm right there with you. I've tried several kinds of vintage Alps, and I like my Quiet Clicks as much or more than any of them.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Sat, 21 November 2015, 19:29:09
I entered the world of ALPS with KBP V60 with Matias quiet switches. I totally love it! I find its tactile feedback more appealing to me than Cherry. It's my favorite switch so far. I might try some vintage ALPS in the future but I feel ambivalent on that. Original ALPS are about 20 years old in average and switches do wear out over time. If my favorite switches die and I can't find replacement for it, that will be very sad...
In addition to what's been mentioned, check out badwrench's Infinity modifier set (the first ever successful Alps GB, and my inspiration for Alpine Winter) and koalapear's Monarch LHTK custom. And Massdrop has had two successful buys for Tai Hao Alps keycaps in WoB, Dolch, and Olivetti colorways. Also, Matias is very close to offering thick PBT dyesub replacement sets.

So lots, really.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ctm on Sat, 21 November 2015, 20:07:08
I entered the world of ALPS with KBP V60 with Matias quiet switches. I totally love it! I find its tactile feedback more appealing to me than Cherry. It's my favorite switch so far. I might try some vintage ALPS in the future but I feel ambivalent on that. Original ALPS are about 20 years old in average and switches do wear out over time. If my favorite switches die and I can't find replacement for it, that will be very sad...
In addition to what's been mentioned, check out badwrench's Infinity modifier set (the first ever successful Alps GB, and my inspiration for Alpine Winter) and koalapear's Monarch LHTK custom. And Massdrop has had two successful buys for Tai Hao Alps keycaps in WoB, Dolch, and Olivetti colorways. Also, Matias is very close to offering thick PBT dyesub replacement sets.

So lots, really.
I am really excited about Matias's PBT. I check that thread like once a day  :cool:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 22 November 2015, 04:07:07
Hello brother can i ask you what custom tkl that support alps other than kingsaver and orion v2?. Gonna sell my hhkb and 55g topre because that great SKCM Blue
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Jokrik on Sun, 22 November 2015, 04:43:37
Hello brother can i ask you what custom tkl that support alps other than kingsaver and orion v2?. Gonna sell my hhkb and 55g topre because that great SKCM Blue

Give this a check
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77084.0

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 22 November 2015, 05:13:25
Hello brother can i ask you what custom tkl that support alps other than kingsaver and orion v2?. Gonna sell my hhkb and 55g topre because that great SKCM Blue

Give this a check
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77084.0
nah man not so interested in that style but thanks for the reply man
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 22 November 2015, 07:42:57
Can't believe I only just now found this thread. Nearly all of my keyboards use Alps, including a new-old French ANSI layout NeXT, KBP V60, Apple M0116, another M0116...

I've also got an IBM with SKCC Greens and an Apple M0110 with SKCC Cream.

nah man not so interested in that style but thanks for the reply man

You're probably looking for the KBP V80.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Sun, 22 November 2015, 10:07:04
Can't believe I only just now found this thread. Nearly all of my keyboards use Alps, including a new-old French ANSI layout NeXT, KBP V60, Apple M0116, another M0116...

I've also got an IBM with SKCC Greens and an Apple M0110 with SKCC Cream.

nah man not so interested in that style but thanks for the reply man

You're probably looking for the KBP V80.
He's looking for an Aluminum custom. I can't think of any others, but I've heard murmurs about an Orion v3 coming soon.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: grav3serker on Mon, 23 November 2015, 01:06:43
Can't believe I only just now found this thread. Nearly all of my keyboards use Alps, including a new-old French ANSI layout NeXT, KBP V60, Apple M0116, another M0116...

I've also got an IBM with SKCC Greens and an Apple M0110 with SKCC Cream.

nah man not so interested in that style but thanks for the reply man

You're probably looking for the KBP V80.
I came across your eBay store looking for Alps boards. You wouldn't happen to have any spare ADB to USB cables, would you? I'm looking for one so I can test out my M0116! :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 23 November 2015, 02:05:17
I'm just hooked when i hear the sound of complicated blue and green and i just know that i need to sell my hhkb and 55g realforce. Wish me luck on getting kingsaver bro
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 23 November 2015, 07:01:31

I came across your eBay store looking for Alps boards. You wouldn't happen to have any spare ADB to USB cables, would you? I'm looking for one so I can test out my M0116! :thumb:

I do have one that I'm not really looking to part with, though I'll probably be making some arduino based converters soon. I already have one flashed, I just have to cut down one of my ADB cables or solder on an ADB port.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 23 November 2015, 07:55:42
You wouldn't happen to have any spare ADB to USB cables, would you?

If you like old Apple gear, you should have one of these lying around for testing purposes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Griffin-2001-ADB-iMate-Universal-ADB-to-USB-adapter-for-Apple-Mac-/181936558619?hash=item2a5c43921b:g:t78AAOSwLzdWTfWa
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: grav3serker on Mon, 23 November 2015, 13:34:30
You wouldn't happen to have any spare ADB to USB cables, would you?

If you like old Apple gear, you should have one of these lying around for testing purposes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Griffin-2001-ADB-iMate-Universal-ADB-to-USB-adapter-for-Apple-Mac-/181936558619?hash=item2a5c43921b:g:t78AAOSwLzdWTfWa
Thanks! I must've missed this one. I've been looking for a used one.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 23 November 2015, 22:27:27
Just tried alps for the first time today. it's white alps, and now I can understand why more and more people prefer alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 02:55:42
how do i start searching for alps? im new to this alps game
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 25 November 2015, 03:14:44
how do i start searching for alps? im new to this alps game
If you like clicky switches, start with a board with white Alps in it, they're pretty good and easy to get. Just make sure to ask for a shot with a cap off because many Alps boards could come with several types of switch.

 
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 03:18:38
how do i start searching for alps? im new to this alps game
If you like clicky switches, start with a board with white Alps in it, they're pretty good and easy to get. Just make sure to ask for a shot with a cap off because many Alps boards could come with several types of switch.
thats the problem im searching for the best and that is the blue alps how much do you think for a donor board?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 25 November 2015, 03:39:16
how do i start searching for alps? im new to this alps game
If you like clicky switches, start with a board with white Alps in it, they're pretty good and easy to get. Just make sure to ask for a shot with a cap off because many Alps boards could come with several types of switch.
thats the problem im searching for the best and that is the blue alps how much do you think for a donor board?
At least $100. Blue Alps don't come cheap because everyone knows their reputation. You might want to consider a more entry-level Alps board to see if you even like them at all.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 25 November 2015, 05:08:22
how do i start searching for alps? im new to this alps game
If you like clicky switches, start with a board with white Alps in it, they're pretty good and easy to get. Just make sure to ask for a shot with a cap off because many Alps boards could come with several types of switch.
thats the problem im searching for the best and that is the blue alps how much do you think for a donor board?
At least $100. Blue Alps don't come cheap because everyone knows their reputation. You might want to consider a more entry-level Alps board to see if you even like them at all.

Yes, and they are notoriously hard to find, at any price. My recommendation would be to buy a Focus FK-2001, which will have white Alps. White aren't quite as nice as blue, but still much better than black Alps to most people. Buying a Dell AT-101W is good, too, but it will come with the less desirable black Alps.

Or you could get a KBParadise V60MTS (60%) or V80MTS (TKL), with your choice of Matias switches - Click, Quiet Click (tactile), or Linear.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:40:37
Blue Alps are trending at the $80+ range right now. Also be careful with white switches as many of the whites are actually clones.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:44:14
Thx for the info still searching for them exotic blue
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:51:41
I'm on the hunt for those Matias Quiet Clicks  :cool:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:53:53
I'm on the hunt for those Matias Quiet Clicks  :cool:
You can buy it on their website right?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:59:18
I'm on the hunt for those Matias Quiet Clicks  :cool:
You can buy it on their website right?
I believe so. I've bought them from mechanicalkeyboards.com before as well.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 25 November 2015, 09:08:37
But what board do I put them in?  :eek:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 09:11:46
But what board do I put them in?  :eek:
Buy a new one  :p :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 25 November 2015, 09:16:46
But what board do I put them in?  :eek:

You can help me with this one again https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44576.msg1947363#msg1947363
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 26 November 2015, 03:38:26
I would like to appreciate Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 26 November 2015, 09:39:38
I would like to appreciate Alps.

Good ones are really good and bad ones are really bad.

Stated another way: good Alps are better than good Cherries but bad Cherries are better than bad Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Lepidus on Thu, 26 November 2015, 10:50:08
Got an old costar CSK-7101n, with alps (clones?) type OD1. They felt very ****ty to be honest, but I guess its due to the really bad condition the keyboard was.
Desoldered all of them, cleaned, lubed and the feel improved a lot, but the tactile bump and clickyness were still underwhelming.

Then I took the clicky leaf and bent it. Now it feels pretty good, very tactile and very clicky, a little bit heavier tho.

Hope it lasts.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 November 2015, 05:00:40
Stated another way: good Alps are better than good Cherries but bad Cherries are better than bad Alps.
I can’t support this. I’ve seen Cherry boards that were just as unusable as the worst Alps board.

30-year-old Alps boards seem to more often be in extremely poor condition than 30-year-old MX boards, but take any keyboard, throw the box away, put it in a pile with 50 other keyboards, pour a bucket of dirt on it, and then wait 20 years, and you can get truly horrible results.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: wakko on Sun, 29 November 2015, 18:08:16
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Yoe on Tue, 01 December 2015, 06:53:38
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...

Nice dye job! What kind/color dye did you use?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: grav3serker on Wed, 02 December 2015, 00:03:09
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...
That's sexy. I would love to have a board like that!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: wakko on Wed, 02 December 2015, 00:30:13
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...

Nice dye job! What kind/color dye did you use?

It's iDye Poly turqoise. Dye did come out quiet nice.

Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...
That's sexy. I would love to have a board like that!

I do enjoy this board :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 02 December 2015, 01:29:25
I appreciate my Amber Alps :)

[attach=1]

Need to get a better picture... Anyway, I'll be removing the board at some point and making a case for it (with a Teensy), but will keep it intact so I can swap it back into the machine. I may even make a ribbon cable extension so I can plug it into the mainboard, but keep it in my custom case. It feels very nice to type on, even the "tophat" caps feel good.

I also have an Alpsulator, but the clones in that feel very poor in comparison.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Wed, 02 December 2015, 21:38:43
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...

Nice dye job! What kind/color dye did you use?

It's iDye Poly turqoise. Dye did come out quiet nice.

What's the process of dying the caps with iDye?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 03 December 2015, 07:24:57
What's the process of dying the caps with iDye?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Thu, 03 December 2015, 12:11:34
What's the process of dying the caps with iDye?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453


Just what I needed, thanks. I'll probably end up really screwing the caps up but it's worth a try.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 03 December 2015, 12:21:36
What's the process of dying the caps with iDye?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453

That is probably one of my favorite threads on this site.  It came from a user that never  really posted much, but the quality and rigor are just amazing.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 05:51:50
I use broken vintage alps keyboards for my custom keyboard.

Here's some of my works.

1. alpetit II : Alps Salmon Pink Switch from Dell AT101
acrylic housing + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
[attachimg=1]
It's no good for me. I don't use it. Switches are too damaged, I just assembled this for sample shots. What a waste.

2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
[attachimg=2]
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)

3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
[attachimg=3]
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Lepidus on Mon, 07 December 2015, 06:06:13
3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.

Wow, that split one looks really awsome. Please post more pics.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: zombimuncha on Mon, 07 December 2015, 06:13:29
I use broken vintage alps keyboards for my custom keyboard.

Here's some of my works.

1. alpetit II : Alps Salmon Pink Switch from Dell AT101
acrylic housing + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
It's no good for me. I don't use it. Switches are too damaged, I just assembled this for sample shots. What a waste.

2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)

3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.

Dammit, now I need to change my pants!

But seriously, those are some spectacular keyboards you have there. Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 06:24:07
Dammit, now I need to change my pants!

But seriously, those are some spectacular keyboards you have there. Thanks for sharing!

Wow, that split one looks really awsome. Please post more pics.

Thanks guys, here's some more pics I just took.

Here's more on kbdlab gallery, It's built with Cherry MX Black with 60g customized spring.
http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152205&mid=board_Lsno50
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Jokrik on Mon, 07 December 2015, 10:16:49
Dammit, now I need to change my pants!

But seriously, those are some spectacular keyboards you have there. Thanks for sharing!

Wow, that split one looks really awsome. Please post more pics.

Thanks guys, here's some more pics I just took.

Here's more on kbdlab gallery, It's built with Cherry MX Black with 60g customized spring.
http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152205&mid=board_Lsno50
So sexy...
Too sexy....
Pants wet.........
So wet.....
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jerue on Mon, 07 December 2015, 10:52:08

3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.

dam son.jpg

because DAMN SON
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 07 December 2015, 11:14:15
I use broken vintage alps keyboards for my custom keyboard.

Here's some of my works.

1. alpetit II : Alps Salmon Pink Switch from Dell AT101
acrylic housing + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
It's no good for me. I don't use it. Switches are too damaged, I just assembled this for sample shots. What a waste.

2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)

3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.

Are you the one who created that split keyboard, the VE.A?

Jeez, and now I find out that it is Alps compatible. Simply amazing and I'm incredibly jelly! That's such a cool custom!

Might finally have another custom aside from the Octagon I'm lusting for now. :P
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 11:22:46
I use broken vintage alps keyboards for my custom keyboard.

Here's some of my works.

1. alpetit II : Alps Salmon Pink Switch from Dell AT101
acrylic housing + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
It's no good for me. I don't use it. Switches are too damaged, I just assembled this for sample shots. What a waste.

2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)

3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.

Are you the one who created that split keyboard, the VE.A?

Jeez, and now I find out that it is Alps compatible. Simply amazing and I'm incredibly jelly! That's such a cool custom!

Might finally have another custom aside from the Octagon I'm lusting for now. :P

Yes I am.
I heard that my works is posted sometimes here at GH, So I wondered how do you guys think about it.
I got really good feedback from you.
Now I regret why I didn't joined GH a year and half ago when I started custom keyboard hobby.
You know late is way better than never. :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 07 December 2015, 11:53:15
I love it. I'd be interested in one if they were sold.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 07 December 2015, 12:02:33
I love it. I'd be interested in one if they were sold.

Likewise! Though with the Octagon v2 coming around, I'd explode if the two buys were close together.

Zefyr, are the PCBs Alps and Cherry MX compatible by default, or do you have separate PCBs for Alps and Cherry? If the Alps PCB is separate, does it allow for in-switch backlighting?

Sorry for all the questions. :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 19:18:26
I love it. I'd be interested in one if they were sold.

Likewise! Though with the Octagon v2 coming around, I'd explode if the two buys were close together.

Zefyr, are the PCBs Alps and Cherry MX compatible by default, or do you have separate PCBs for Alps and Cherry? If the Alps PCB is separate, does it allow for in-switch backlighting?

Sorry for all the questions. :)

Not at all E3E. :)

My new PCB (Vergo type.T-II) is Cherry MX / Alps compatible and in-switch backlighting is all available also.
But because of backlighting, when it comes to alps there is one critical point.
Old stepped style Alps capslock is not fit on VTT2, I couldn't place switch pads for alps for that damn stem position. It's not at cherry's vintage, nor oem's centered position, it's between them and alps pads cannot be placed... I tried to flip upside-down thing but no luck, LED pads is all over the positions.
My other PCB for example alpetit, is certainly fit all of AT101, AT101W, AEK M3501(M0115 also).
I'm trying to solve this problem on my next PCB, but well... :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 07 December 2015, 20:41:50
I love it. I'd be interested in one if they were sold.

Likewise! Though with the Octagon v2 coming around, I'd explode if the two buys were close together.

Zefyr, are the PCBs Alps and Cherry MX compatible by default, or do you have separate PCBs for Alps and Cherry? If the Alps PCB is separate, does it allow for in-switch backlighting?

Sorry for all the questions. :)

Not at all E3E. :)

My new PCB (Vergo type.T-II) is Cherry MX / Alps compatible and in-switch backlighting is all available also.
But because of backlighting, when it comes to alps there is one critical point.
Old stepped style Alps capslock is not fit on VTT2, I couldn't place switch pads for alps for that damn stem position. It's not at cherry's vintage, nor oem's centered position, it's between them and alps pads cannot be placed... I tried to flip upside-down thing but no luck, LED pads is all over the positions.
My other PCB for example alpetit, is certainly fit all of AT101, AT101W, AEK M3501(M0115 also).
I'm trying to solve this problem on my next PCB, but well... :)

Thank you, zefyr. :)

That sounds great! I love MX + Alps PCB designs. Yes, I have noticed this too. It seems that stepped Caps Lock keys on Alps keyboards are between the Cherry style and Non-stepped. I found this out when I was working on my project for a hotswappable backlit Alps keyboard (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77497.msg1952047#msg1952047). Though designing a custom PCB is infinitely more awesome.

I can't quite recall how it was done on the Eagle's PCB, but I will say that the pads for the Alps-stepped Caps lock position were so strange, that I didn't notice them. They just looked like PCB-mount leg holes for Cherry MX, but then I realized it was for Alps. I know this doesn't help much!

Here is an image of the position (I missed it, so I didn't add sockets to it at this point), it's circled in green on the right side of the picture. My camera isn't that great so it's a bit fuzzy. :(

(http://puu.sh/lNqRR/942e7c1ec6.jpg)

Not sure if it can spark any ideas, but I do hope you can get that position figured out! If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. Your board is great as is, but if you can solve this problem, that'd be even better. :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 22:35:14
I love it. I'd be interested in one if they were sold.

Likewise! Though with the Octagon v2 coming around, I'd explode if the two buys were close together.

Zefyr, are the PCBs Alps and Cherry MX compatible by default, or do you have separate PCBs for Alps and Cherry? If the Alps PCB is separate, does it allow for in-switch backlighting?

Sorry for all the questions. :)

Not at all E3E. :)

My new PCB (Vergo type.T-II) is Cherry MX / Alps compatible and in-switch backlighting is all available also.
But because of backlighting, when it comes to alps there is one critical point.
Old stepped style Alps capslock is not fit on VTT2, I couldn't place switch pads for alps for that damn stem position. It's not at cherry's vintage, nor oem's centered position, it's between them and alps pads cannot be placed... I tried to flip upside-down thing but no luck, LED pads is all over the positions.
My other PCB for example alpetit, is certainly fit all of AT101, AT101W, AEK M3501(M0115 also).
I'm trying to solve this problem on my next PCB, but well... :)

Thank you, zefyr. :)

That sounds great! I love MX + Alps PCB designs. Yes, I have noticed this too. It seems that stepped Caps Lock keys on Alps keyboards are between the Cherry style and Non-stepped. I found this out when I was working on my project for a hotswappable backlit Alps keyboard (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77497.msg1952047#msg1952047). Though designing a custom PCB is infinitely more awesome.

I can't quite recall how it was done on the Eagle's PCB, but I will say that the pads for the Alps-stepped Caps lock position were so strange, that I didn't notice them. They just looked like PCB-mount leg holes for Cherry MX, but then I realized it was for Alps. I know this doesn't help much!

Here is an image of the position (I missed it, so I didn't add sockets to it at this point), it's circled in green on the right side of the picture. My camera isn't that great so it's a bit fuzzy. :(

Show Image
(http://puu.sh/lNqRR/942e7c1ec6.jpg)


Not sure if it can spark any ideas, but I do hope you can get that position figured out! If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. Your board is great as is, but if you can solve this problem, that'd be even better. :D

Thanks man, I saw your job. Really impressive!

Here's the problem with caps that I remember.

Old alps caps position is about center between cherry OEM position (center of 1.75) and cherry stepped position (center of 1.25); yeh - 1.5 position.
It's no problem when switch is cherry, two reeds of switch is far enough (Y axis). but alps is not, it's damn right there. Gap between reeds is only 0.5mm. it cannot be placed 1.25/1.5/1.75 at the same time.

I designed another PCB series named alpetit - 60% only for alps switches, no pads for Cherry MX.
And same problem 1.25/1.5/1.75 happen's here too. but it can be done by placing 1.5 position pads upside-down, since it has no in-switch LED pads.

But your work is so encouraging! I'm gonna work on breaking that damn problem. I wish I can solve it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 08 December 2015, 01:23:10
Thanks man, I saw your job. Really impressive!

Here's the problem with caps that I remember.

Old alps caps position is about center between cherry OEM position (center of 1.75) and cherry stepped position (center of 1.25); yeh - 1.5 position.
It's no problem when switch is cherry, two reeds of switch is far enough (Y axis). but alps is not, it's damn right there. Gap between reeds is only 0.5mm. it cannot be placed 1.25/1.5/1.75 at the same time.

I designed another PCB series named alpetit - 60% only for alps switches, no pads for Cherry MX.
And same problem 1.25/1.5/1.75 happen's here too. but it can be done by placing 1.5 position pads upside-down, since it has no in-switch LED pads.

But your work is so encouraging! I'm gonna work on breaking that damn problem. I wish I can solve it.

Aww, I am glad I could help encourage you! I really hope that you find a solution to the Caps Lock issue and figure out how to implement it in your PCB designs. Your work is fantastic. I had never known of it before now. :)

Could it possibly work if the pad holes are reduced for the 1.5 stepped Caps Lock position? From what it sounds like you're saying, it's that the pads start running into each other because of their diameter.

Hopefully someone more adept than I am at understanding PCB design can assist you in sorting this issue so that your boards have as much cap compatibility as possible. :D Good luck, zefyr, and thanks for deciding to join GeekHack.

 We definitely all appreciate another talented Korean custom maker joining our forum.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 08 December 2015, 01:53:05
Such an awesome keyboard zefyr  :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:03:46
So Alps people can you guide me?
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?

That would be to put those beauties onto something

(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:11:03
So Alps people can you guide me?
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?

That would be to put those beauties onto something

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)

Are you looking for a full-size?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:11:17
So Alps people can you guide me?
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?

That would be to put those beauties onto something

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)


A Hasu 60% Alps PCB would be your best bet! It supports pretty much every layout you could ever desire.

If you can't find one of those, I know the V60-MTS allows an ISO layout though you would be SOL for the bottom row, as it only supports the modern standard 6.25u layout.

Getting a bit more into the limited territory, you have the Leeku MXAlps 3000 board meant as a G80-3000 replacement PCB, I think? Only the earlier versions had support for Alps.
 
Then there's the Duck Eagle and Viper. No ISO support. I don't think Leeku's had ISO support either.

There's another Leeku Alps PCB that's more recent, but I forget the name of it. L3 Alps? or Alphas? I dunno.

Into even less compatible territories, you have the Infinity ErgoDox and the Infinity keyboard that also take Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:12:28
So Alps people can you guide me?
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?

That would be to put those beauties onto something

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)

Are you looking for a full-size?

Nope, just somewhere I could put those on, like a WKL TKL, a 60% with 1.5|1|1.5 bottom row ...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:24:26
V80 is a modern TKL but has the standard bottom row.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:30:58
Look like I could possibly use this pcb :
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69740.0
with a 1.5+1+1.5 spc7 1.5+1+1.5 bottom row.

Hopefully there's extras :o
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:40:35
If you can wait a couple months, the JD45 will be Alps compatible, too.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:41:05
If you can wait a couple months, the JD45 will be Alps compatible, too.

But not iso compatible iirc ;)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:43:36
If you can wait a couple months, the JD45 will be Alps compatible, too.

But not iso compatible iirc ;)
Well, the Enter is only 1.75u, so it should be equally bad/good for both ANSI and ISO users. :-*
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Nawit on Mon, 21 December 2015, 19:35:54
Edit: Not ALPS, my bad. :(
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 21 December 2015, 19:38:59
Well. I looked in my basement today and found this from my grandparent's old computer.
A year ago I'd probably think nothing of it but now I know how lucky I am to find this. How much is something like this worth? I have never experienced ALPS until now and I gotta say it ain't half bad.

Not Alps, those are slider over rubber dome.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 21 December 2015, 19:39:16
Well. I looked in my basement today and found this from my grandparent's old computer.
A year ago I'd probably think nothing of it but now I know how lucky I am to find this. How much is something like this worth? I have never experienced ALPS until now and I gotta say it ain't half bad.

Thats not Alps. Its slider over rubber dome.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Nawit on Mon, 21 December 2015, 19:48:21
Well. I looked in my basement today and found this from my grandparent's old computer.
A year ago I'd probably think nothing of it but now I know how lucky I am to find this. How much is something like this worth? I have never experienced ALPS until now and I gotta say it ain't half bad.

Thats not Alps. Its slider over rubber dome.

Oopsie. The switch looked so similar. My bad. I'll remove the post.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Bucake on Tue, 22 December 2015, 00:01:10
SKCL green are probably the nicest linears i've ever tried
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 01:10:23
SKCL green are probably the nicest linears i've ever tried

I haven't been able to try them yet, but I just bought a SHARP X68000 so I should be able to soon.  :D

(http://i.imgur.com/tEjPtD9.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Magna224 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 01:13:13
I'm pretty sure the automated stocking system at work has Green ALPS. Its ungodly smooth. Much more smooth than even the like new vintage MX Blacks I got or my gaterons. Thats the only thing I could think of that it might be.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 22 December 2015, 03:29:58
Sweet nab, Blaise! Hope you're content with it! Those windows on the indicator caps are so wide!
 
I'm pretty sure the automated stocking system at work has Green ALPS. Its ungodly smooth. Much more smooth than even the like new vintage MX Blacks I got or my gaterons. Thats the only thing I could think of that it might be.

I friggin' LOVE green Alps. If you can ever find the unicorn of a switch, brown linear Alps, they are closer in feel to vintage MX blacks due to their weight (60-65g actuation). Greens are very much like reds (45-50g actuation), but oh god are they nice!

*
Little cross post from "what did you add to your keyboard today":

I made an MX-to-Alps adapter out of a styrene rod for something special

(http://i.imgur.com/7uLSLid.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/pKpaiAM.jpg)

I also cut a 60% AEK plate for axtran

(http://i.imgur.com/9WiQ4zy.jpg)

This is what a magnetized screw driver looks like when it meets a **** ton of ground steel dust

(http://i.imgur.com/YfAMUBF.jpg)

If anyone might want an adapter so they can mount their favorite artisan on their Alps board, just hit me up. I can't promise that I'll make a ton of these, as I do make them by hand using high quality styrene rod (made for boat scale models, sourced from the UK, and only one store I know of that sells them) and a dremel.

Since they aren't the easiest thing to make, I could do them for about $10 a pop. It might be more practical to go the 3D printed route ^^;
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: calavera on Tue, 22 December 2015, 04:35:47
Looking at that home-made converter I remember a thread about someone or a group creating these ALPS-MX converter sliders. Wonder what happened to it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 09:08:45
Over on Deskthority there is a major thread and they are nearing completion. They have several models of it already and it looks really good.  ;D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 22 December 2015, 12:08:57
Over on Deskthority there is a major thread and they are nearing completion. They have several models of it already and it looks really good.  ;D

Is that so? Haha. I made mine because I thought that all hopes of ever owning one of the fabled converters from that thread was nigh impossible. I thought things were starting to stagnate on that end.
 
I was even more motivated when I saw  BlueNalgene's 3D printed batch for Alps Party. Since I had to skip over that GB, I wouldn't be getting any of those, so I did the next best thing! It's actually really solid! "Milling" it out of a solid rod worked out well, haha.

I just need it for one cap anyways!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 24 December 2015, 10:15:27
Just pulled the trigger on a Christmas gift for myself: a refurbished Zenith 1860 84-key with Green SKCL's, based on E3E's constant praise and my love for linears :)

Very exciting! The layout looks surprisingly usable, so I can't wait to show it off at work. There is an Alps fan there with a Matias Quiet Click and AEKII that will be very jealous  :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Bucake on Thu, 24 December 2015, 12:17:38
Just pulled the trigger on a Christmas gift for myself: a refurbished Zenith 1860 84-key with Green SKCL's, based on E3E's constant praise and my love for linears :)

Very exciting! The layout looks surprisingly usable, so I can't wait to show it off at work. There is an Alps fan there with a Matias Quiet Click and AEKII that will be very jealous  :p

sweet gift! :D
i have its brother (the 1886). real nice PBT dyesub caps. spacebar is abs, LED-caps are pad printed ABS double-shots. you can turn the noise-thing on-off with alt + esc
really, really nice linear switches, cherry mx linears are absolutely no match :cool:
it's quite pingy, but other than that it sounds and feels real nice. i think it would suit the board if some noise-dampening material is applied inside the case. still have to try it myself ^-^
my only gripes are that the Return key isn't very smooth (weirdly 'stabilized'), and the spacebar is a bit rattly. i guess i'll apply some lube to both to see if that improves things :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Thu, 24 December 2015, 14:26:07
Just pulled the trigger on a Christmas gift for myself: a refurbished Zenith 1860 84-key with Green SKCL's, based on E3E's constant praise and my love for linears :)

Very exciting! The layout looks surprisingly usable, so I can't wait to show it off at work. There is an Alps fan there with a Matias Quiet Click and AEKII that will be very jealous  :p

sweet gift! :D
i have its brother (the 1886). real nice PBT dyesub caps. spacebar is abs, LED-caps are pad printed ABS double-shots. you can turn the noise-thing on-off with alt + esc
really, really nice linear switches, cherry mx linears are absolutely no match :cool:
it's quite pingy, but other than that it sounds and feels real nice. i think it would suit the board if some noise-dampening material is applied inside the case. still have to try it myself ^-^
my only gripes are that the Return key isn't very smooth (weirdly 'stabilized'), and the spacebar is a bit rattly. i guess i'll apply some lube to both to see if that improves things :)

Hey, congrats, pr0xy! Glad to see my proselytizing has made a few converts. MX truly doesn't compare. ;) Definitely looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the board! I had originally taken a gamble on a Z-150 model, but it ended up having yellow Alps and was in kind of a deplorable condition. So gritty linears. Ew. :/

Yeah, the spring ping is pretty bad with Alps, especially the older ones! It can be fixed right up with lube applied to the springs themselves, but your idea of putting dampening under the board also works as a shortcut. Though it doesn't eliminate all of the ping, it definitely diminishes it significantly if you have good dampening. I lubed all of my Green Alps springs, but I didn't bother with any other switches I've tried in my Hammer board, and the sorbothane sheet I use (not too expensive!) for dampening really killed a lot of the ping with blues and brown linears!

EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized I lubed the brown linear springs too. BUT. It definitely reduces ping on the blues!

Zenith's are incredibly well-built. They're such solid boards with a thick and ridiculously textured plastic top housing and a solid metal bottom panel. It's really crazy how much they've put into the build quality. Bonus for NKRO if you're into that.  :thumb:

I still consider the XT layout (I call it that, please correct me if I'm wrong, haha) with the F keys to the side is pretty compact for the era!

I think lubing would hush up rattly stab wire, but you can also try shimming it with paper or, as I've heard recently, bandaids, lol. That might cut even more rattle.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Bucake on Thu, 24 December 2015, 17:05:17
brown linears? aren't those extremely rare?
how do they compare to greens?

i actually prefer the F-section of the XT boards over the standard F-row of today.
when i switch from an XT board to a 'classic' board, i'm quickly annoyed by the F-row.
clustered together on the left side makes so much more sense for my left arm/hand. i wish it was common practise!

cheers for the tip, i think i'll try the paper/bandaid trick!

edit: is NKRO that much more expensive to make, or something?
i mean.. so many huge names/brands have 6KRO or even lower. why? super old boards prove that NKRO has always been an option.
and for example hasu's controller shows that NKRO is possible over USB.
why is NKRO not the standard?
not that i need more than 6KRO, but i just don't understand why we went from NKRO to 6KRO
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Thu, 24 December 2015, 17:21:29
brown linears? aren't those extremely rare?
how do they compare to greens?

i actually prefer the F-section of the XT boards over the standard F-row of today.
when i switch from an XT board to a 'classic' board, i'm quickly annoyed by the F-row.
clustered together on the left side makes so much more sense for my left arm/hand. i wish it was common practise!

cheers for the tip, i think i'll try the paper/bandaid trick!

edit: is NKRO that much more expensive to make, or something?
i mean.. so many huge names/brands have 6KRO or even lower. why? super old boards prove that NKRO has always been an option.
and for example hasu's controller shows that NKRO is possible over USB.
why is NKRO not the standard?
not that i need more than 6KRO, but i just don't understand why we went from NKRO to 6KRO

Linear brown Alps are indeed quite rare. The best bet is in old Texas Instruments Low-Profile Keyboard models. Which don't turn up often. They aren't all THAT special. They feel like the MX black of the Alps world, where linear greens feel like MX reds, imo. They actuate at around 65g of force. They are both very smooth, but I prefer greens more myself. I'll have to give the browns more attention though. :)

Hehe, I like the XT layout for its looks, but I couldn't get used to the layout myself--granted, I only had XT protocol boards with that layout, so I couldn't even TRY to get used to them.

Yes, NKRO was very uncommon back in the day, aside from the technologies that had it by default, ie capacitive keyboards.

The only NKRO boards I know of in the vintage Alps world are the Z-150, the ZKB-2, the Omnikey, the Leading Edge DC-2014, the Leading Edge DC-3014, and the Chicony 5161A. That might sound like a lot, but it's pretty tiny compared to the plethora of Alps boards out there. The blue Alps variants with NKRO... Well, there's only the DC-3014, the gold label Omnikey 102, and then the Chicony 5161A. None of which are absolutely guaranteed to have blue Alps (much less so the Chicony).

NKRO is more standard today on high priced boards, but yeah... I dunno. I guess the extra couple of cents of expenses for diodes adds up over designing a labyrinth of a matrix and adding blocking (?). Though I have a few old boards that have no diodes OR blocking, and it's pretty amusing. I can do the whole "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" test just fine, albeit with some random tildes and Ms thrown in, haha. 

I'm not sure what the 6KRO thing is about. I always thought that was more of a limitation with USB tech. Only my Infinity and the DIN5-to-USB Soarer's converter DIN5-to-USB I bought from orihalcon allow full NKRO over USB. Someone more technical than I am could probably give you a far better answer! My Duck boards all have diodes, but only get 6KRO over USB. I'm not sure if that would change with an active PS/2 converter or not.

I'm fine with 6KRO, but I really wanted a vintage blue Alps board with NKRO. I FINALLY found a DC-3014, and that's my Christmas gift to myself, haha. I can live with 2KRO or ... a willy nilly unblocked matrix, but having the freedom is nice.

I use a DTR laptop, so I don't have the option of PS/2 alone, I should say.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 24 December 2015, 17:24:13
Older protocols like PS/2 supported it by default due to the way they are wired. On the other hand, USB is limited to 6KRO. Even though NKRO over USB is possible, it requires different techniques like the use of diodes.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Thu, 24 December 2015, 17:28:56
The only NKRO boards I know of in the vintage Alps world are the Z-150, the ZKB-2, the Omnikey, the Leading Edge DC-2014, the Leading Edge DC-3014, and the Chicony 5161A.
Ironically, my Omnikey Ultra doesn't even have NKRO, it seems to be broken somehow xD .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: SamirD on Tue, 29 December 2015, 14:35:29
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :p

This board is wild!  I've never seen anything like it!

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: axtran on Wed, 30 December 2015, 06:38:52
So Alps people can you guide me?
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?

That would be to put those beauties onto something

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)


Sigh... I want AZERTY board like yours :(
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 30 December 2015, 07:25:06
awjio4fwjiowatjwt04239
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 30 December 2015, 07:25:37
awjio4fwjiowatjwt04239
oops!  Was testing xRKO on my M since it's going through a kvm switch--seems to be limited to 6. :(

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: smarmar on Wed, 30 December 2015, 12:01:37
No they went down under a long time ago. Matias is the only company that makes alps switches/boards now.

I got a Matias Tactile Pro 3 with white alps a couple of years ago for my 2006 iMac. My gf hates the absurdly loud, plasic-y clicks. When I get goin' on that thing it sounds like someone pouring tic-tacs on a tile floor.
Sadly, I don't use the Mac as often as I used to; it's getting up there in age and losing its usefulness.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: KRKS on Thu, 31 December 2015, 03:47:18
the whole "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" test

Am I really seeing these words from someone with 900+ posts?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 31 December 2015, 07:22:01
the whole "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" test

Am I really seeing these words from someone with 900+ posts?

What's wrong with it?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:06:16
Zenith board with Green SKCL Alps came in yesterday. Gotta say, so far I am vastly underwhelmed. I opened a couple switches and lubed them with Krytox 203, still scratchy. I like to hope it's because there's something in them that needs cleaning out (Alps seem very temperamental) because these have a LONG way to go before they're as smooth as either my vintage MX or Gateron Blacks. Love the form factor and build quality of the board for the most part, though the caps feel way thinner than they look.

I'm thinking I'll have to disassemble the entire thing and wash it all out, switch housings and sliders included? The plate has some corrosion and could use a sanding, so I think this will be my next restoration job. It's either that or building an Alps 60%, but I'm really not convinced Alps are for me yet so I think I'll keep the board and try not to sink too much money into it. I have everything I need to clean it up so it's just a matter of finding the time.

Neat that you can open Alps while they're on the plate though!  :))
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:35:39
Zenith board with Green SKCL Alps came in yesterday. Gotta say, so far I am vastly underwhelmed. I opened a couple switches and lubed them with Krytox 203, still scratchy. I like to hope it's because there's something in them that needs cleaning out (Alps seem very temperamental) because these have a LONG way to go before they're as smooth as either my vintage MX or Gateron Blacks. Love the form factor and build quality of the board for the most part, though the caps feel way thinner than they look.

I'm thinking I'll have to disassemble the entire thing and wash it all out, switch housings and sliders included? The plate has some corrosion and could use a sanding, so I think this will be my next restoration job. It's either that or building an Alps 60%, but I'm really not convinced Alps are for me yet so I think I'll keep the board and try not to sink too much money into it. I have everything I need to clean it up so it's just a matter of finding the time.

Neat that you can open Alps while they're on the plate though!  :))

Bad Alps feel as bad as any other bad switch, but if they are in good condition I think they are the best of the switch types.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:59:00
Zenith board with Green SKCL Alps came in yesterday. Gotta say, so far I am vastly underwhelmed. I opened a couple switches and lubed them with Krytox 203, still scratchy. I like to hope it's because there's something in them that needs cleaning out (Alps seem very temperamental) because these have a LONG way to go before they're as smooth as either my vintage MX or Gateron Blacks. Love the form factor and build quality of the board for the most part, though the caps feel way thinner than they look.

I'm thinking I'll have to disassemble the entire thing and wash it all out, switch housings and sliders included? The plate has some corrosion and could use a sanding, so I think this will be my next restoration job. It's either that or building an Alps 60%, but I'm really not convinced Alps are for me yet so I think I'll keep the board and try not to sink too much money into it. I have everything I need to clean it up so it's just a matter of finding the time.

Neat that you can open Alps while they're on the plate though!  :))

Bad Alps feel as bad as any other bad switch, but if they are in good condition I think they are the best of the switch types.
That's what's keeping me going with this board :) By "bad Alps" do you mean ones that need cleaning, or is there some other way Alps go "bad"?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Thu, 31 December 2015, 15:22:01
Try cleaning the top housing of a few switches with a damp qtip and blow out the dust from the bottom housing.  I believe dry type lube is best for Alps type switches, nubbinator has found that Molybdenum works best https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75785.msg1885894#msg1885894

https://www.etsy.com/listing/216916871/molybdenum-disulfide-1-ounce-15-micron?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=molybdenum%20disulfide&ref=sr_gallery_2
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Thu, 31 December 2015, 20:59:42
Zenith board with Green SKCL Alps came in yesterday. Gotta say, so far I am vastly underwhelmed. I opened a couple switches and lubed them with Krytox 203, still scratchy. I like to hope it's because there's something in them that needs cleaning out (Alps seem very temperamental) because these have a LONG way to go before they're as smooth as either my vintage MX or Gateron Blacks. Love the form factor and build quality of the board for the most part, though the caps feel way thinner than they look.

I'm thinking I'll have to disassemble the entire thing and wash it all out, switch housings and sliders included? The plate has some corrosion and could use a sanding, so I think this will be my next restoration job. It's either that or building an Alps 60%, but I'm really not convinced Alps are for me yet so I think I'll keep the board and try not to sink too much money into it. I have everything I need to clean it up so it's just a matter of finding the time.

Neat that you can open Alps while they're on the plate though!  :))

When I disassembled my blue alps switches I washed the top housings. I suppose you can also wash the sliders if they did not come with lube, or are going to put your own dry lube on them.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 31 December 2015, 22:58:15
Is this SKCL green alps?
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MFgxMDgw/z/kxIAAOSwFqJWhVZq/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
the seller said that the board have no click and feel similar with cherry mx brown
the board is ortek one and I'm in a deal with him can somone confirmed that this is a SKCL green alps?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Thu, 31 December 2015, 23:29:44
Nice find, it could be SKCL greens but the slider color seems a little bit darker.  It might be these: http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ntc-kb-6251-green-linear-hua-jie-ak-switches-t11551.html

Either way its very interesting and worth picking up. Try to ask the seller to take a clearer picture of the top of the switch.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Thu, 31 December 2015, 23:31:11
Is this SKCL green alps?
Show Image
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MFgxMDgw/z/kxIAAOSwFqJWhVZq/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)

the seller said that the board have no click and feel similar with cherry mx brown
the board is ortek one and I'm in a deal with him can somone confirmed that this is a SKCL green alps?
Does it have a hole for an LED? If yes then it's absolutely SKCL green.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 01 January 2016, 00:02:02
Zenith board with Green SKCL Alps came in yesterday. Gotta say, so far I am vastly underwhelmed. I opened a couple switches and lubed them with Krytox 203, still scratchy.
When brand new, green Alps are definitely not scratchy. Smoother than any linear MX switch you’ll ever find, except those with lube added by an enthusiast.

If it’s scratchy, that means it sat on a shelf for 2 to 3 decades without a box, and got filled with dust and grit.

Cleaning scratchy Alps switches is nontrivial. I think the best tool is probably an ultrasonic cleaner, but if you don’t have one of those and still want to clean up the switches, I’d recommend desoldering everything, taking all the switches apart, carefully swabbing out the housings and sliders with an alcohol-soaked q-tip or similar, and then adding some Krytox to all the contact points before reassembling. It’s going to take a considerable amount of effort though; just finding better condition switches is probably easier/cheaper if you value your time.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 01 January 2016, 00:14:26
Waiting for the seller to get a clearer picture
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 01 January 2016, 00:16:30
Waiting for the seller to get a clearer picture

Which Ortek is it if you don't mind me asking?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 01 January 2016, 00:19:31
Waiting for the seller to get a clearer picture

Which Ortek is it if you don't mind me asking?
Ortek mck 101FTN
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 01 January 2016, 02:03:01
huft too bad the board is simplified green alps
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMDgw/z/8iwAAOSwKtlWhi1B/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 01 January 2016, 02:15:46
I appreciate comp whites in my new 60% alps board.  Now it needs a case...And a non-yellowed aekii space bar
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 02 January 2016, 14:25:07
I have some sideways-Alps-mount relegendable keys listed in the free stuff thread if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 03 January 2016, 00:15:59
I have some sideways-Alps-mount relegendable keys listed in the free stuff thread if anyone is interested.
Have any pictures of those?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 03 January 2016, 00:33:01
Have any pictures of those?

Here's a picture that I took earlier.

(http://i.imgur.com/wjktwPc.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Altis on Sun, 03 January 2016, 11:34:16
I just received my first complicated Blue Alps keyboard and have some initial impressions.

They're certainly smoother overall than Monterey Blue alps, but I don't think it comes down to the slider smoothness. I think the reason they feel so good is that they have the very long tactile bump that's similar in stroke to Black Alps or Topre, with a soft click at actuation. The actuation point doesn't itself interfere with the downstroke, though, so while they sound clicky, they don't really feel clicky but certainly tactile.

It's like how Topre is very tactile but not clicky at all. If you added a soft clicker in 45g Topre that didn't resist too much, it would probably feel pretty similar overall.

Contrast that with Monterey Blue alps which have a more resistant click in the keystroke: you push down until you reach a point where the resistance builds up and you have to overcome that sudden tactile click. The click is very harsh and pronounced by comparison with the Blue Alps, which you could slowly push through without really feeling any sudden buildup of pressure at the click/actuation point.

Just some thoughts. I'll probably post a review of the keyboard and switches when I've had a chance to really get to know it and collect my thoughts.

I definitely do like the Blue Alps feel and sound, though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Sun, 03 January 2016, 17:47:23
Cool man, glad you finally got one! :)

Part of the quality of the keyfeel is definitely due to the tactile leaf Alps used, yeah. It's IMO why Type OA2 clones feel better than most others too, as it's fairly close to the construction to actual complicated Alps. However, just the click leaf doesn't explain why blue Alps feel nicer than white ones though, as they appear to be identical. I would also say that Montereys do feel nicer than white Alps (but not blue Alps). That's just my opinion though. I think it's a combination of factors, materials, and design decisions, really.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 05 January 2016, 01:15:26
However, just the click leaf doesn't explain why blue Alps feel nicer than white ones though, as they appear to be identical.
Quite noticeably different spring, different click leaf, different contact assembly (this accounts for some of the sound difference), factory-applied lubricant, different switch housing, slightly different slider shape. There actually isn’t a single identical part, though they’re mostly pretty similar.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 05 January 2016, 18:31:36
huft too bad the board is simplified green alps
Show Image
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMDgw/z/8iwAAOSwKtlWhi1B/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)


Are you sure? Those look like the rare tactile green Alps to me.

Nevermind. I see the tabs now. Taking 6 days away from the keyboard game and already I'm getting rusty, haha.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Tue, 05 January 2016, 18:43:22
huft too bad the board is simplified green alps
Show Image
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMDgw/z/8iwAAOSwKtlWhi1B/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)


Are you sure? Those look like the rare tactile green Alps to me.

Nevermind. I see the tabs now. Taking 6 days away from the keyboard game and already I'm getting rusty, haha.
The markings also show it's not a genuine Alps switch ;) . Besides, SKCM Green has a really weird shade of almost luminescent green.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:18:40
Do you guys think 70 dollar for a board with blue alps is worth it? Trying to snatch my first blue alps :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:24:33
Do you guys think 70 dollar for a board with blue alps is worth it? Trying to snatch my first blue alps :p

YES. Buy it! NOW!

That's a fantastic price for blue Alps if you're buying online. Don't pass it up!

What board are you getting? Is it an 84 key or a 101?

huft too bad the board is simplified green alps
Show Image
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMDgw/z/8iwAAOSwKtlWhi1B/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)


Are you sure? Those look like the rare tactile green Alps to me.

Nevermind. I see the tabs now. Taking 6 days away from the keyboard game and already I'm getting rusty, haha.
The markings also show it's not a genuine Alps switch ;) . Besides, SKCM Green has a really weird shade of almost luminescent green.

Yeah, the markings on Alps switches are pretty distinctive! I did think this shade of green was pretty vivid compared to the linear green slider, though.


Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:28:14
Do you guys think 70 dollar for a board with blue alps is worth it? Trying to snatch my first blue alps :p

YES. Buy it! NOW!

That's a fantastic price for blue Alps if you're buying online. Don't pass it up!

What board are you getting? Is it an 84 key or a 101?

I think a 101 I'm waiting for the pic. The one that sell this are fellow member here wanting to sell his board  :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:36:43
Do you guys think 70 dollar for a board with blue alps is worth it? Trying to snatch my first blue alps :p

YES. Buy it! NOW!

That's a fantastic price for blue Alps if you're buying online. Don't pass it up!

What board are you getting? Is it an 84 key or a 101?

I think a 101 I'm waiting for the pic. The one that sell this are fellow member here wanting to sell his board  :p

Lucky you!

Edit: What is happening, I don't deserve this!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 05 January 2016, 21:20:56
Yep I got chicony 5161c with indeed a genuine complicated blue alps  ;D
(http://m.imgur.com/HPv615t.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QMjBeR1h.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 06 January 2016, 00:40:56
Yep I got chicony 5161c with indeed a genuine complicated blue alps  ;D
Show Image
(http://m.imgur.com/HPv615t.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QMjBeR1h.jpg)


Looks to be in  fantastic condition! Is that the 5161A model with NKRO? I haven't heard of the Chicony having a 5161C designation Owo
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 00:47:13
Yep I got chicony 5161c with indeed a genuine complicated blue alps  ;D
Show Image
(http://m.imgur.com/HPv615t.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QMjBeR1h.jpg)


Looks to be in  fantastic condition! Is that the 5161A model with NKRO? I haven't heard of the Chicony having a 5161C designation Owo
Nah its the 5161c from 1987
like in deskthority wiki http://deskthority.net/wiki/Chicony_KB-5161
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 01:05:26
Congrats on finding one  :thumb: I wish i could tell if mine is a 5161C or a 5161A but it has no labels  :))

You going to use the board how it is or swap the switches into something else?

(http://i.imgur.com/ausYzBO.gif)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 01:30:36
Congrats on finding one  :thumb: I wish i could tell if mine is a 5161C or a 5161A but it has no labels  :))

You going to use the board how it is or swap the switches into something else?

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ausYzBO.gif)

use it as it is but when I do find kingsaver I would swap the switch to the custom  :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 01:58:03
Congrats on finding one  :thumb: I wish i could tell if mine is a 5161C or a 5161A but it has no labels  :))

You going to use the board how it is or swap the switches into something else?

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ausYzBO.gif)

use it as it is but when I do find kingsaver I would swap the switch to the custom  :p

Nice im trying to restore my 5161 with SKCL greens, just need to get the proper lights for an indoor retrobright setup. The Kingsaver is my dream board, IMO i think its the best looking custom ever. I should probably start to look for one, i havent tried yet because i dont think i would ever find one lol.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 06 January 2016, 02:43:15
Wow, that looks excellent, very nice find indeed :) .

If you want to know the exact model; it should say so on the PCB :) .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 02:48:30
Now my next one would be Board with SKCL green
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 02:52:12
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 02:53:07
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
yep
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 03:17:40
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
yep

Ah i was hoping MCK-101- "A" might have meant NKRO. Oh well standard KRO is enough, but NKRO would have been nice.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 06 January 2016, 03:43:04
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 04:04:59
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .

 :eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970

Picture of front and back of the PCB:
(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)

Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490


Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?




Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 04:21:50
Oh yeah guys I want to ask what board that usually have skcl green?  :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 06 January 2016, 06:10:29
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .

 :eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970

Picture of front and back of the PCB:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)


Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490


Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?





The OEMMAX is definitely not a Chicony 5161, it's a branded keyboard with Ortek as OEM. Many keyboards resemble the 5161 but they're certainly not all the same. As far as I know the OEMMAX is always blue Alps, too. No idea about rollover, though.

Oh yeah guys I want to ask what board that usually have skcl green?  :thumb:
Old Zeniths are generally your best bet, look for a Z-150 or ZKB-2 (both could also come with yellows though). They're very good looking boards, not that rare and also come with NKRO.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Bucake on Wed, 06 January 2016, 08:09:03
wow, nice catch bocahgundul
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 08:15:35
wow, nice catch bocahgundul
Thank you I've been searching for 1 for about 1 month and suddenly someone want to sells theirs haha now for the skcl  green
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Eugene45 on Wed, 06 January 2016, 09:46:38
Could someone help me, i'am looking for a TKL ISO ALP boards, does this exist at the moment ?

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 11:23:50
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .

 :eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970

Picture of front and back of the PCB:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)


Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490


Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?





The OEMMAX is definitely not a Chicony 5161, it's a branded keyboard with Ortek as OEM. Many keyboards resemble the 5161 but they're certainly not all the same. As far as I know the OEMMAX is always blue Alps, too. No idea about rollover, though.

Ah i understand, i thought it was a Chicony the whole time  :)) Do you know which adapter i should buy to use to test if it supports NKRO?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 06 January 2016, 11:26:12
Congrats on finding one  :thumb: I wish i could tell if mine is a 5161C or a 5161A but it has no labels  :))

You going to use the board how it is or swap the switches into something else?

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ausYzBO.gif)

use it as it is but when I do find kingsaver I would swap the switch to the custom  :p
Congrats!  I'd keep it original.  That looks like it's in fantastic condition and you won't find many like that in the next few years.

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 06 January 2016, 12:53:40
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .

 :eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970

Picture of front and back of the PCB:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)


Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490


Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?





The OEMMAX is definitely not a Chicony 5161, it's a branded keyboard with Ortek as OEM. Many keyboards resemble the 5161 but they're certainly not all the same. As far as I know the OEMMAX is always blue Alps, too. No idea about rollover, though.

Ah i understand, i thought it was a Chicony the whole time  :)) Do you know which adapter i should buy to use to test if it supports NKRO?
More than understandable, they look virtually identical xD . I think it's AT/XT compatible so a simple AT-to-PS/2 adapter should suffice if you have a PS/2 port which is fully compatible with NKRO, if you don't you'll need a converter :) . Most NKRO systems don't persist past 6KRO over USB as far as I know but it's certainly not impossible.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 06 January 2016, 13:01:01
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .

 :eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970

Picture of front and back of the PCB:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)


Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490


Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?

Judging by the PCB, it looks like it doesn't use diodes in the keyboard matrix, so I'd say it likely does not have NKRO. I like the case design of the Ortek MCK-101. It's the only one of the bigfoot-style boards I know of that come very close to matching the exact look of the FAME TH-5539 I have, with some slight and significant differences.

One big one being the plastic bottom as opposed to the metal one on the FAME, and also the four indicator lights as opposed to the more conventional three lights that the FAME uses. The styling of the top bezel aside from that and from what I can make out from pictures show it to be very close to the FAME's. Both the Chicony 5161 and AT101 that I have are a bit different and have bezels that are less wide and thick as the FAME. I could always be wrong about the scale of the MCK, since pictures can be a bit deceiving, hehe.

The bottom of the MCK-101 is heavily reminiscent to the Dell AT101 in terms of screw mounting points and the tabs, though the AT-XT switch is obviously not found on the AT101!

I've been wanting one of these to have a plastic cousin to the FAME, but every time I see one, it goes for far too much than I'm willing to pay.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 13:35:42
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .

 :eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970

Picture of front and back of the PCB:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)


Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490


Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?





The OEMMAX is definitely not a Chicony 5161, it's a branded keyboard with Ortek as OEM. Many keyboards resemble the 5161 but they're certainly not all the same. As far as I know the OEMMAX is always blue Alps, too. No idea about rollover, though.

Ah i understand, i thought it was a Chicony the whole time  :)) Do you know which adapter i should buy to use to test if it supports NKRO?
More than understandable, they look virtually identical xD . I think it's AT/XT compatible so a simple AT-to-PS/2 adapter should suffice if you have a PS/2 port which is fully compatible with NKRO, if you don't you'll need a converter :) . Most NKRO systems don't persist past 6KRO over USB as far as I know but it's certainly not impossible.

Awesome thanks, luckily i have a PS/2 port, im going to buy this adapter, it looks like it should work well http://www.ebay.com/itm/231664941582 If the keyboard doesnt support NKRO ill buy this to use it over USB http://www.ebay.com/itm/381276560855

Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?
The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .

 :eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970

Picture of front and back of the PCB:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)


Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490


Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?

Judging by the PCB, it looks like it doesn't use diodes in the keyboard matrix, so I'd say it likely does not have NKRO. I like the case design of the Ortek MCK-101. It's the only one of the bigfoot-style boards I know of that come very close to matching the exact look of the FAME TH-5539 I have, with some slight and significant differences.

One big one being the plastic bottom as opposed to the metal one on the FAME, and also the four indicator lights as opposed to the more conventional three lights that the FAME uses. The styling of the top bezel aside from that and from what I can make out from pictures show it to be very close to the FAME's. Both the Chicony 5161 and AT101 that I have are a bit different and have bezels that are less wide and thick as the FAME. I could always be wrong about the scale of the MCK, since pictures can be a bit deceiving, hehe.

The bottom of the MCK-101 is heavily reminiscent to the Dell AT101 in terms of screw mounting points and the tabs, though the AT-XT switch is obviously not found on the AT101!

I've been wanting one of these to have a plastic cousin to the FAME, but every time I see one, it goes for far too much than I'm willing to pay.

Your right there doesnt seem to be any diodes, i guess no NKRO then.  The FAME is awesome though, metal all the way.  I like how the Ortek looks also but mine is so yellowed now that its almost orange, once i find some good lights to make an indoor retrobright setup i hope it will be looking brand new.  Im most likely going to put SKCL greens in it, but might put SKCM Oranges, SKCM Whites, or Matias Clicks in it, might try to get a non coiled cable for it also since those coiled cables are so bulky.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 08 January 2016, 15:04:10
Pssst, hey Alps fans:


JANUARY 2016 GEEK HACK DOUBLE SHOT GROUP BUY (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78489.0)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Fri, 08 January 2016, 15:28:39
Pssst, hey Alps fans:


JANUARY 2016 GEEK HACK DOUBLE SHOT GROUP BUY (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78489.0)
Do you know something we don't???
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 09 January 2016, 01:04:47
What custom beside the tmk alps that can use alps switch? really wanted to make a custom and btw what case that tmk pcb alps can use?
I really want to appreciate alps  :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nickheller on Sat, 09 January 2016, 01:07:45
Just got done desoldering these blue alps  ;D

(http://i.imgur.com/xkG2GUa.jpg)

I also soldered the diodes for my alps infinity today, soon these switches will be going in that.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 09 January 2016, 01:21:07
Just got done desoldering these blue alps  ;D

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/xkG2GUa.jpg)


I also soldered the diodes for my alps infinity today, soon these switches will be going in that.
Yummy blue alps waiting for mine soon  :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 09 January 2016, 06:11:51
YES YES YES THE DAY HAS  COME MY BRO
IN AN AGREEMENT FOR KINGSAVER BOIS   :p :p
yes my dream board  :cool: :cool:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Sat, 09 January 2016, 06:19:20
Just got done desoldering these blue alps  ;D

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/xkG2GUa.jpg)


I also soldered the diodes for my alps infinity today, soon these switches will be going in that.
Murder most foul and unnatural, my lord. >_>
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 09 January 2016, 11:39:39
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them.  Alps appreciated!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 09 January 2016, 11:54:25
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them.  Alps appreciated!
White Alps, and they are usually really nice. Focus keyboards are great! Hope you enjoy it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Sat, 09 January 2016, 13:04:31
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them.  Alps appreciated!
The FK-2001 and Chicony KB-5161 are probably the two main contestants for board with most different types of switch in it xD . If it's white and specifically says "Alps" on it, it's white Alps, otherwise it's almost certainly a clone (although some clones were really good too). The FK-2001 is one of the best-looking boards I know, certainly the best-looking one I own. Congrats on the find! :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 09 January 2016, 14:14:04
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them.  Alps appreciated!
White Alps, and they are usually really nice. Focus keyboards are great! Hope you enjoy it.
It's quite nice.  Initially x and b both weren't working, mainly because I think the keyboard literally had been sitting in a storage unit for the last 10 years, but after a few repeated presses, both started working.  :thumb:  I basically rescued that board and I'm sure it will clean up really nice.  The switches are scratchy so that's going to have to be remedied too, but I think cleaning will go a long way too.
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them.  Alps appreciated!
The FK-2001 and Chicony KB-5161 are probably the two main contestants for board with most different types of switch in it xD . If it's white and specifically says "Alps" on it, it's white Alps, otherwise it's almost certainly a clone (although some clones were really good too). The FK-2001 is one of the best-looking boards I know, certainly the best-looking one I own. Congrats on the find! :)
What's funny is that right before I used the Focus, I used the 5161 and an NMB space invaders--and all of these for the first time!  It was really nice to feel all these very cool switches.  Now coming back to an M, I see where the inspiration came from and even how they have certain qualities I even like better.  :cool:

I guess I'm not going to know what's in my Focus until I start to clean it, but the Chicony was Badwrench's and in his words "White alps - switches are super crispy - best whites I have felt.".  What's interesting to me is that the Focus feels a little more crisp than the Chicony, but they're not as smooth because they're scratchy.

Overall, I really like the Alps switch even moreso than the Cherrys that I have and have felt.  I can see why Alps are a bit like the Mopar of the keyboard world.  :cool:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 09 January 2016, 14:57:19
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them.  Alps appreciated!
If you post a picture of the outside of the board (or just describe it), we can guess pretty well.

Do you have one with the translucent plastic cover included?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Sat, 09 January 2016, 16:54:18
So this is definitely going to be a cross post, I know it. Sorry for being AWOL by the way guys, just been keeping busy with other things. I'm trying not to focus TOO hard on keyboards right now to stave off wallet hack and try and reprioritize things in life. I won't ever leave this lovely scene though, but I might be a little more low key here and there. ^^

(http://i.imgur.com/P5h97an.jpg)

MEGA THANKS to Bromono and Alienman82 for this. Well, for the Hebrew caps anyway. Got them off of a distant cousin of my FAME, the APC TH-5539, which is just soooo much less of a board than the FAME.

But the caps were in amazing condition. So thanks Bro for shipping me the board free of charge, and thanks to you Alienman82 for passing on your first dibs to me.

Finally, my FAME is complete, and it will probably always be my favorite vintage Alps board.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Sat, 09 January 2016, 17:18:27
So this is definitely going to be a cross post, I know it. Sorry for being AWOL by the way guys, just been keeping busy with other things. I'm trying not to focus TOO hard on keyboards right now to stave off wallet hack and try and reprioritize things in life. I won't ever leave this lovely scene though, but I might be a little more low key here and there. ^^

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/P5h97an.jpg)


MEGA THANKS to Bromono and Alienman82 for this. Well, for the Hebrew caps anyway. Got them off of a distant cousin of my FAME, the APC TH-5539, which is just soooo much less of a board than the FAME.

But the caps were in amazing condition. So thanks Bro for shipping me the board free of charge, and thanks to you Alienman82 for passing on your first dibs to me.

Finally, my FAME is complete, and it will probably always be my favorite vintage Alps board.

Woooow that looks awwsome!, never actually seen Hebrew caps before, excellent work man that definitely looks like a completed board  :thumb: All the work put into that board certainly shows.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 09 January 2016, 17:29:56
So this is definitely going to be a cross post, I know it. Sorry for being AWOL by the way guys, just been keeping busy with other things. I'm trying not to focus TOO hard on keyboards right now to stave off wallet hack and try and reprioritize things in life. I won't ever leave this lovely scene though, but I might be a little more low key here and there. ^^

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/P5h97an.jpg)


MEGA THANKS to Bromono and Alienman82 for this. Well, for the Hebrew caps anyway. Got them off of a distant cousin of my FAME, the APC TH-5539, which is just soooo much less of a board than the FAME.

But the caps were in amazing condition. So thanks Bro for shipping me the board free of charge, and thanks to you Alienman82 for passing on your first dibs to me.

Finally, my FAME is complete, and it will probably always be my favorite vintage Alps board.
Is it double shot hebrew bro?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: pr0ximity on Sat, 09 January 2016, 17:39:29
So this is definitely going to be a cross post, I know it. Sorry for being AWOL by the way guys, just been keeping busy with other things. I'm trying not to focus TOO hard on keyboards right now to stave off wallet hack and try and reprioritize things in life. I won't ever leave this lovely scene though, but I might be a little more low key here and there. ^^

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/P5h97an.jpg)


MEGA THANKS to Bromono and Alienman82 for this. Well, for the Hebrew caps anyway. Got them off of a distant cousin of my FAME, the APC TH-5539, which is just soooo much less of a board than the FAME.

But the caps were in amazing condition. So thanks Bro for shipping me the board free of charge, and thanks to you Alienman82 for passing on your first dibs to me.

Finally, my FAME is complete, and it will probably always be my favorite vintage Alps board.

(https://i.imgur.com/MIj6o.gif)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 09 January 2016, 21:34:31
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them.  Alps appreciated!
If you post a picture of the outside of the board (or just describe it), we can guess pretty well.

Do you have one with the translucent plastic cover included?
Here's a twin of mine I found online.  Surprisingly, mine is only slightly dirtier than this one:
(http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/fk2001/all1.jpg)

I didn't get the cover (owner didn't have it).  But I knocked the price down because of it.  :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: axtran on Sun, 10 January 2016, 01:45:11
http://imgur.com/ocpYhTu

My new Duck Orion V2 with SKCM Blue ALPS... I suppose I appreciate ALPS too!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Sun, 10 January 2016, 02:59:37
http://imgur.com/ocpYhTu

My new Duck Orion V2 with SKCM Blue ALPS... I suppose I appreciate ALPS too!
That's quite the board to own! I think I just missed the Orion V2 gb when I joined GeekHack otherwise I'd have my own.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Sun, 10 January 2016, 04:07:24
Is it double shot hebrew bro?

Yep, double shots with pad printed Hebrew legends. No shine whatsoever, which is incredibly rare with ABS caps on vintages. So happy with them!

Woooow that looks awwsome!, never actually seen Hebrew caps before, excellent work man that definitely looks like a completed board  :thumb: All the work put into that board certainly shows.

Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha. I'm super happy with the look now. My FAME is complete, but that also sadly means that I probably will just keep it stowed away as a collection piece now. I have a fair amount of other blue Alps vintages to love on now, so the fame will just be my mantle piece now. :D


Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/MIj6o.gif)


:D

Thanks for all the props, guys. It's definitely been christened my endgame blue Alps board, even after finding the Leading Edge DC-3014 and Focus FK-555 (soon), the FAME is actually a lot more rare than either of those two; this particular kind anyway! So it's nice to have something really unique and well-built as well as personalized. :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: umeboshi on Wed, 13 January 2016, 01:05:33
Question for any Alps folks who may have compared modified clicky orange Alps with blue alps?  Do they feel close enough to be a poor man's blue alps?

I just installed some modified clicky orange Alps into a minitouch, pretty much exactly like CPTBadAss did: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71855.0, and it feels quite nice  :D


Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 January 2016, 02:14:19
Question for any Alps folks who may have compared modified clicky orange Alps with blue alps?  Do they feel close enough to be a poor man's blue alps?
They’re definitely different. Different spring and noticeably different click leaf. Same “switchplate” assembly and housing though.

I dunno about “poor man’s” – very good condition orange Alps switches are also very nice, and not all that easy to find.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: richfiles on Wed, 13 January 2016, 03:12:59
[attachimg=1]
I am in LOVE with my Apple //c Extended Memory keyboard. It uses Alps Amber switches, and I want to build it into a 60%-ish bluetooth keyboard, after I finish my Danger Zone 75%+1 custom keyboard. I have NEVER found a switch that feels better. I like Cherry/Gateron Blues... But WOW... Alps Ambers are a DREAM. If the Danger Zone keycap set were available as Alps compatible, I'd have ordered it that way, and splurged for a second Apple //c to salvage enough switches to use those. Alas... That keycap set requires MX compatible posts, and the //c is quite spendy these days. I'll be more than happy with a nice portable mechanical keyboard. I'll have the two push to toggle switches at the top act as power and a Number row/F row switch. I'll steal another Apple key so I can move [Esc] to where Reset is, and the [~`] key to where [Esc] is, so I have a proper modifier row. I can also steal an [Option] from another Apple keyboard with the same cap style. I know some would call it sacrilege, but I play Kerbal Space Program... [Control] is Throttle Down, and [Left Shift] is Throttle Up. I NEED to get [Caps Lock] and [Control] swapped, somehow. Maybe I'll just say screw it. [Caps Lock] is a toggle switch as well.

[attachimg=2]
My 75%+1 plates sitting on top of my Apple Extended Keyboard II. It's sooooooo yellow... I WANT an AEKII stuffed with Alps Ambers... Bestest switch ever!  :p :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 13 January 2016, 03:31:00
Amber Alps are a bit of an enigma, we still have no idea where they sit in the timeline. It's quite possible, but wholly unknown at the time, that they were Alps' first ever clicky switch. Have you tried blue Alps as well, and if so, how do they compare?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 13 January 2016, 03:34:14
(Attachment Link)
I am in LOVE with my Apple //c Extended Memory keyboard. It uses Alps Amber switches, and I want to build it into a 60%-ish bluetooth keyboard, after I finish my Danger Zone 75%+1 custom keyboard. I have NEVER found a switch that feels better. I like Cherry/Gateron Blues... But WOW... Alps Ambers are a DREAM. If the Danger Zone keycap set were available as Alps compatible, I'd have ordered it that way, and splurged for a second Apple //c to salvage enough switches to use those. Alas... That keycap set requires MX compatible posts, and the //c is quite spendy these days. I'll be more than happy with a nice portable mechanical keyboard. I'll have the two push to toggle switches at the top act as power and a Number row/F row switch. I'll steal another Apple key so I can move [Esc] to where Reset is, and the [~`] key to where [Esc] is, so I have a proper modifier row. I can also steal an [Option] from another Apple keyboard with the same cap style. I know some would call it sacrilege, but I play Kerbal Space Program... [Control] is Throttle Down, and [Left Shift] is Throttle Up. I NEED to get [Caps Lock] and [Control] swapped, somehow. Maybe I'll just say screw it. [Caps Lock] is a toggle switch as well.

(Attachment Link)
My 75%+1 plates sitting on top of my Apple Extended Keyboard II. It's sooooooo yellow... I WANT an AEKII stuffed with Alps Ambers... Bestest switch ever!  :p :thumb:
Awesome where do you make that plates?
never heard of alps amber at all bro is it that "good" and do you ever use alps blue switch?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 January 2016, 04:27:59
Amber Alps are a bit of an enigma, we still have no idea where they sit in the timeline. It's quite possible, but wholly unknown at the time, that they were Alps' first ever clicky switch. Have you tried blue Alps as well, and if so, how do they compare?
I think SKCL predate SKCM a bit. That is, linear green Alps. Some of these have a black switchplate, same as tee mount Alps switches.

First SKCM switches were blue and "ivory". Someone dug up an early Alps catalog listing those two. Ivory = the tactile switch before orange Alps. The only source I know for them is certain Canon typewriters, and I’ve never seen them in especially pristine condition. Gray double-actuating linear switches are from the same era.

After that I’m not sure of the precise timeline, but among SKCM/SKCL switches with "tall" switchplate assemblies, there are brown and orange tactile switches, cream heavy linear switches, and amber clicky switches.

Perhaps amber switches were first intended for spacebars but nobody was buying them for that, so Apple bought a batch on the cheap?

Omron clicky switches came in amber and blue variants, roughly corresponding to amber and blue Alps, so presumably there was a point where Alps had both of those available. Soft clicky switches from Cherry, SMK, and NEC all also copied the blue color.
(http://i.imgur.com/BlUKXmg.jpg)

Then later Alps switched to short switchplates, in a generation including white clicky, salmon (and later black) tactile, green tactile, yellow linear, and cream quiet tactile switches.

Quote
how do they compare?
Amber switches are quite a bit stiffer than blue switches, stiffness similar to early clicky white Alps or even slightly stiffer, with a much snappier and louder click. Blue switches are elegant and understated, amber switches get up in your face.

People who like white Alps, Matias clicky, Model F, amber Omrons, or Cherry MX green would probably like amber Alps. People who like blue Alps might or might not.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 13 January 2016, 04:58:30
Amber Alps are a bit of an enigma, we still have no idea where they sit in the timeline. It's quite possible, but wholly unknown at the time, that they were Alps' first ever clicky switch. Have you tried blue Alps as well, and if so, how do they compare?
I think SKCL predate SKCM a bit. That is, linear green Alps. Some of these have a black switchplate, same as tee mount Alps switches.

First SKCM switches were blue and "ivory". Someone dug up an early Alps catalog listing those two. Ivory = the tactile switch before orange Alps. The only source I know for them is certain Canon typewriters, and I’ve never seen them in especially pristine condition. Gray double-actuating linear switches are from the same era.

After that I’m not sure of the precise timeline, but among SKCM/SKCL switches with "tall" switchplate assemblies, there are brown and orange tactile switches, cream heavy linear switches, and amber clicky switches.

Perhaps amber switches were first intended for spacebars but nobody was buying them for that, so Apple bought a batch on the cheap?

Omron clicky switches came in amber and blue variants, roughly corresponding to amber and blue Alps, so presumably there was a point where Alps had both of those available. Soft clicky switches from Cherry, SMK, and NEC all also copied the blue color.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/BlUKXmg.jpg)


Then later Alps switched to short switchplates, in a generation including white clicky, salmon (and later black) tactile, green tactile, yellow linear, and cream quiet tactile switches.

Quote
how do they compare?
Amber switches are quite a bit stiffer than blue switches, stiffness similar to early clicky white Alps or even slightly stiffer, with a much snappier and louder click. Blue switches are elegant and understated, amber switches get up in your face.

People who like white Alps, Matias clicky, Model F, amber Omrons, or Cherry MX green would probably like amber Alps. People who like blue Alps might or might not.
SKCL Green were first yeah, but they're not clicky ;) . I've done a fair amount of research into the Alps timeline for several upcoming videos, including correspondence with Daniel B. Truth is we have a pretty good idea now, but rare/obscure switches like SKCM Amber and SKCM Cream are simply not well known enough to place properly into the main timeline yet. We need a lot more data before we can place them, and it's unlikely we'll ever get it.

Amber Alps sound intriguing though. Much louder than blue and white Alps? Colour me intrigued :) .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Yoe on Wed, 13 January 2016, 08:10:10
(Attachment Link)
I am in LOVE with my Apple //c Extended Memory keyboard. It uses Alps Amber switches, and I want to build it into a 60%-ish bluetooth keyboard, after I finish my Danger Zone 75%+1 custom keyboard. I have NEVER found a switch that feels better. I like Cherry/Gateron Blues... But WOW... Alps Ambers are a DREAM. If the Danger Zone keycap set were available as Alps compatible, I'd have ordered it that way, and splurged for a second Apple //c to salvage enough switches to use those. Alas... That keycap set requires MX compatible posts, and the //c is quite spendy these days. I'll be more than happy with a nice portable mechanical keyboard. I'll have the two push to toggle switches at the top act as power and a Number row/F row switch. I'll steal another Apple key so I can move [Esc] to where Reset is, and the [~`] key to where [Esc] is, so I have a proper modifier row. I can also steal an [Option] from another Apple keyboard with the same cap style. I know some would call it sacrilege, but I play Kerbal Space Program... [Control] is Throttle Down, and [Left Shift] is Throttle Up. I NEED to get [Caps Lock] and [Control] swapped, somehow. Maybe I'll just say screw it. [Caps Lock] is a toggle switch as well.

Have you seen this? http://retroconnector.com/products/apple-ii/keyboard-shield-for-apple-iic-or-iic/

I made one on an experiment board and just used his firmware on a Teensy++, worked like a charm.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 13 January 2016, 09:07:17
Amber Alps are a bit of an enigma, we still have no idea where they sit in the timeline. It's quite possible, but wholly unknown at the time, that they were Alps' first ever clicky switch. Have you tried blue Alps as well, and if so, how do they compare?

They Actuate at around 80 g whereas Blues are around 65 g, they are much sharper in tactility. I don't know if I'd call them "louder" per se, but their click is certainly not as refined as the click that emanates from a blue SKCM switch. :P

The Ambers kind of reminded me of a socket wrench, that ratcheting action. I suppose they were a -tad- bit louder, but their click in general was just kind of underwhelming to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if they came before blues.

The fact that the Apple IIc had both SKCM Amber and SKCM Blue (in replacement boards) and that it is so far the only documented source of blues with the ALPS stamping on the top housing... Is very intriguing.

Could ambers have come before blues? Possibly, but they possibly might not have just the same. The strange lack of a bottom lip on the amber's click leaf is a little suspicious, but could it mean that it was a first attempt, or just a revision or experimentation?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: richfiles on Wed, 13 January 2016, 18:25:01
Awesome where do you make that plates?
never heard of alps amber at all bro is it that "good" and do you ever use alps blue switch?

LeandreN ran a plate prototyper/group purchase back in... I think it was around October. Used the keyboard layout editor and plate builder online tools to create the layout and the files for the manufacturer. I've got a thread here showing all the details.


Have you seen this? http://retroconnector.com/products/apple-ii/keyboard-shield-for-apple-iic-or-iic/

I made one on an experiment board and just used his firmware on a Teensy++, worked like a charm.

I saw that a while back. I'm an electronics guy, so I'll just save some cash and do my own wiring. Schematic to the keyboard is out there, but honestly, It can probably only manage 1-2KRO, as the matrix has no diodes. I'll cut traces and solder in diodes to each switch and take the matrix directly to a Teensy or equivalent controller.


Amber switches are quite a bit stiffer than blue switches, stiffness similar to early clicky white Alps or even slightly stiffer, with a much snappier and louder click. Blue switches are elegant and understated, amber switches get up in your face.

People who like white Alps, Matias clicky, Model F, amber Omrons, or Cherry MX green would probably like amber Alps. People who like blue Alps might or might not.

Ambers are indeed "up in your face". They have a bold click that's pretty noticeable. I've never had a keyboard with Alps Blue switches. I have keyboards with other Alps (Other Apple keyboards), but those are not clicky switches. What I did do, was make a comparison video between my Danger Zone custom 75% + 1 keyboard project with Gateron Blue switches, and my Apple //c keyboard with the Alps Amber switches. The Alps Amber definitely take more force to press passed the click. I personally like it. I used some Shapeways C64 to MX stem adapters and threw some Commodore 64 keys on my Danger Zone keyboard (since the Danger Zone key caps won't show up till next month).

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 13 January 2016, 18:50:23
Funny, those Gaterons don't sound like Cherries at all, is that because they're constructed differently or because of the massive keycaps?

As for the Ambers, they sound pretty good! :) Hard to say if they're louder of course, but they definitely don't sound any softer! xD
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: richfiles on Wed, 13 January 2016, 19:01:39
They get WAY louder with those hulking clodhopper C64 keycaps clamped on!  :))

When I first got the Gaterons, I was actually disappointed in the click, cause I thought it sounded too soft, but discovered that seem to be amplified by having a keycap attached to them. The sound is almost more pronounced by the keycap, than the switch with the Gaterons. I don't actually have any other switch types, or keycaps (I'm VERY new to this keyboard stuff), so I really have no other comparisons. The Alps Ambers... The pitch slightly increases, but the volume barely drops with the keycap removed. It's QUITE different from how the Gateron Blues are. It's like they need a keycap to act like a "speaker", while the Ambers speak in "caps lock" all the time!  ;D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: umeboshi on Thu, 14 January 2016, 04:51:44
Question for any Alps folks who may have compared modified clicky orange Alps with blue alps?  Do they feel close enough to be a poor man's blue alps?
They’re definitely different. Different spring and noticeably different click leaf. Same “switchplate” assembly and housing though.

Thanks!  Was hard to tell there were differences from the pics that I could find.

I dunno about “poor man’s” – very good condition orange Alps switches are also very nice, and not all that easy to find.

That's true.  Was hoping if the clicky oranges were close enough then that might save me from entering the crazy bidding wars that go on for blue alps nowadays...  :))

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: phosphoric on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:45:57
built an alps64 with an old aek ii's cream damped switches, but wanted something clickier so i removed the rubber dampeners on both sides of the sliders. the switch is much clickier and much crisper now, and it is an absolute pleasure to type on

if you haven't used stock cream damped switches, they feel kind of mushy and this modification makes them much more pleasant to use. if somebody wants to try it out themself, i have a couple more switches at home and can make a quick guide
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 19 January 2016, 19:11:33
I believe cream switches without the dampers have basically the same spring, click leaf, and switchplate as salmon switches. I haven’t done a detailed part comparison though, so there might be minor differences.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: phosphoric on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:50:48
I believe cream switches without the dampers have basically the same spring, click leaf, and switchplate as salmon switches. I haven’t done a detailed part comparison though, so there might be minor differences.

oh really? this is quite intriguing - if it were, true, however, i'd imagine that the price of cream damped switches would skyrocket because taking out the rubber dampeners is not especially challenging or tedious when considering the simplicity of taking apart an alps switch
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:58:31
Question for any Alps folks who may have compared modified clicky orange Alps with blue alps?  Do they feel close enough to be a poor man's blue alps?

I just installed some modified clicky orange Alps into a minitouch, pretty much exactly like CPTBadAss did: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71855.0, and it feels quite nice  :D

Click modded Orange are far more pleasant both in auditory and tactile feedback than Blue Alps to me, but it's all personal preference.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 20 January 2016, 19:13:59
I believe cream switches without the dampers have basically the same spring, click leaf, and switchplate as salmon switches. I haven’t done a detailed part comparison though, so there might be minor differences.

oh really? this is quite intriguing - if it were, true, however, i'd imagine that the price of cream damped switches would skyrocket because taking out the rubber dampeners is not especially challenging or tedious when considering the simplicity of taking apart an alps switch
It's tricky. Even Alps switches that appear to have exactly or almost exactly the same parts can sound and perform quite radically different. Nowhere near as much as we'd want is know about this family.

Regardless, I don't think they would skyrocket. AEKs show up often enough, and are not really much more expensive than AEKIIs from what I've seen.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: phosphoric on Wed, 20 January 2016, 19:15:16

I believe cream switches without the dampers have basically the same spring, click leaf, and switchplate as salmon switches. I haven’t done a detailed part comparison though, so there might be minor differences.

oh really? this is quite intriguing - if it were, true, however, i'd imagine that the price of cream damped switches would skyrocket because taking out the rubber dampeners is not especially challenging or tedious when considering the simplicity of taking apart an alps switch
It's tricky. Even Alps switches that appear to have exactly or almost exactly the same parts can sound and perform quite radically different. Nowhere near as much as we'd want is know about this family.

Regardless, I don't think they would skyrocket. AEKs show up often enough, and are not really much more expensive than AEKIIs from what I've seen.

i was referring to the price of cream damped alps in general - they generally don't go for much. alps are a tricky switch and i still have so much to learn so youre probably right
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 20 January 2016, 19:35:05
oh really? this is quite intriguing - if it were, true, however, i'd imagine that the price of cream damped switches would skyrocket because taking out the rubber dampeners is not especially challenging or tedious when considering the simplicity of taking apart an alps switch
The prices are more about availability and weird herd behavior, not switch feel.

Salmon switches aren’t anything special, they’re just the tactile (non-clicky) version of early white Alps switches. Early white, salmon, and cream switches are all quite nice, but nothing anyone should be paying out the nose for.

There are a lot of old Apple AEK IIs out there, so pretty much anyone who wants one can have one, so the price is very cheap for what you get. Orange Alps boards are are harder to find, and blue Alps boards harder still, so the prices are steeper.

But anyway, I quite like cream switches, except I think they’re slightly too stiff. If you swap the spring for something a bit lighter, they’re really nice feeling.

The dampeners are a nice bonus feature, especially the top side that cuts the sound of the upstroke.

If you want a nice tactile switch and all you can find is Apple AEK IIs, I wouldn’t recommend removing the dampeners, that’s a waste. Instead, find a white Alps board (great condition white Alps boards are all over eBay), and swap the click leaves into the cream-slider switches, and the tactile leaves into the white-slider switches. You’ll end up with two nice sets of switches, and the dampened clicky ones are pretty unique and interesting.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 21 January 2016, 03:55:01
Awesome where do you make that plates?
never heard of alps amber at all bro is it that "good" and do you ever use alps blue switch?

LeandreN ran a plate prototyper/group purchase back in... I think it was around October. Used the keyboard layout editor and plate builder online tools to create the layout and the files for the manufacturer. I've got a thread here showing all the details.


Have you seen this? http://retroconnector.com/products/apple-ii/keyboard-shield-for-apple-iic-or-iic/

I made one on an experiment board and just used his firmware on a Teensy++, worked like a charm.

I saw that a while back. I'm an electronics guy, so I'll just save some cash and do my own wiring. Schematic to the keyboard is out there, but honestly, It can probably only manage 1-2KRO, as the matrix has no diodes. I'll cut traces and solder in diodes to each switch and take the matrix directly to a Teensy or equivalent controller.


Amber switches are quite a bit stiffer than blue switches, stiffness similar to early clicky white Alps or even slightly stiffer, with a much snappier and louder click. Blue switches are elegant and understated, amber switches get up in your face.

People who like white Alps, Matias clicky, Model F, amber Omrons, or Cherry MX green would probably like amber Alps. People who like blue Alps might or might not.

Ambers are indeed "up in your face". They have a bold click that's pretty noticeable. I've never had a keyboard with Alps Blue switches. I have keyboards with other Alps (Other Apple keyboards), but those are not clicky switches. What I did do, was make a comparison video between my Danger Zone custom 75% + 1 keyboard project with Gateron Blue switches, and my Apple //c keyboard with the Alps Amber switches. The Alps Amber definitely take more force to press passed the click. I personally like it. I used some Shapeways C64 to MX stem adapters and threw some Commodore 64 keys on my Danger Zone keyboard (since the Danger Zone key caps won't show up till next month).

Did you like the gateron better?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: richfiles on Thu, 21 January 2016, 08:38:16
Quote
Did you like the gateron better?

The Gaterons are nice and they are certainly very smooth.
For that, I like them, but I absolutely LOVE the Alps Amber click.
The Gaterons feel downright weak in comparison.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 21 January 2016, 17:19:58
Quote
Did you like the gateron better?

The Gaterons are nice and they are certainly very smooth.
For that, I like them, but I absolutely LOVE the Alps Amber click.
The Gaterons feel downright weak in comparison.
So you like big phat click eh  :))
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Thu, 21 January 2016, 18:41:40
Quote
Did you like the gateron better?

The Gaterons are nice and they are certainly very smooth.
For that, I like them, but I absolutely LOVE the Alps Amber click.
The Gaterons feel downright weak in comparison.
So you like big phat click eh  :))
Who could possibly resist the sound of clicky Alps? (http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp129/JonThePon/Smilies/I.png)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 21 January 2016, 19:19:47
****.....all this talk about Amber Alps. I gotta get my hands on some!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 21 January 2016, 20:21:14
****.....all this talk about Amber Alps. I gotta get my hands on some!

Exactly what I thought! I bought some switches from a guy on eBay that is supposed to come from an Apple IIc so we'll see once it arrives.  :))
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 21 January 2016, 21:04:27
****.....all this talk about Amber Alps. I gotta get my hands on some!
CPT you like big phat click too eh? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Thu, 21 January 2016, 23:40:48
****.....all this talk about Amber Alps. I gotta get my hands on some!

Exactly what I thought! I bought some switches from a guy on eBay that is supposed to come from an Apple IIc so we'll see once it arrives.  :))

I'm probably one of the few who does not like Amber Alps. I tried them on one of my hotswap Eagle builds not too long ago, and they just weren't for me. I ended up trading them for more SKCM blues.


Here's a typing video of them in the Hammer.

They were incredibly tactile, but I think the carbon fiber plate and really solid case had more to do with it, perhaps. I just didn't like the click sound compared to blues. It's not as refined, but it might be a bit louder, indeed. :)

I might have been influenced by the fact I only had 26-27 loose SKCM blues at the time and desperately wanted to fill by Hammer Alps board with them, but only had enough for the alphas. Using them on the same board together, with Ambers placed everywhere other than the alphas and mods (SKCL browns there), I really did not like them side by side against blues.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: n__dles on Thu, 21 January 2016, 23:41:01
Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.
I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.

I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 22 January 2016, 01:05:31
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 02:36:22
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?

This is not a bad idea actually.

Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.
I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.

I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.

Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.

Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!

I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 22 January 2016, 02:43:43
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?

This is not a bad idea actually.

Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.
I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.

I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.

Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.

Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!

I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
If the hebrew printing is dyesubs it will be perfect :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 03:07:17
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?

This is not a bad idea actually.

Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.
I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.

I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.

Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.

Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!

I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
If the hebrew printing is dyesubs it will be perfect :p

Oooh, yeah. You'd have to look to Acer keyboards, or the original Dells (very annoying to track down outside TaoBao, and then you have stupid shipping costs) or SGI granites for that, if you want standard profile that is. I like AEK caps, but I'm also kinda meh about them due to their odd profile. It's nice, but it doesn't fit the other vintages, literally and aesthetically.

These Tai Hao caps are nice though, mainly because the FAME has a short right shift, and so it fits (I also ANSI-modded mine and eliminated the BAE because I wanted it to be exactly what I wanted and the top of the BAE had no stabilization :P).

The only short shift PBT caps I know of for sure are from the IBM 5140. This one might also be PBT, judging by the case's yellowing. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RB-2001-Clicky-Keyboard-BLUE-Sliders-XT-AT-5-Pin-RARE-MODEL-/181846396766?hash=item2a56e3cf5e:g:bf4AAOSwMmBV3MIY) Not gonna lie, I'd love the 1u key beside the short shift to say "Turbo," that would be sick.

I hear the pad printing on these is very resilient though, and hell, people really like GMK's alt legend keys like Cyrillic, and they are pad printed.

I do agree though, dye subbed PBT would be the best set up for this, and I would also be less scared of shining them. Would be really hard to find though. This one is scarce enough!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 22 January 2016, 03:25:59
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?

This is not a bad idea actually.

Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.
I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.

I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.

Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.

Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!

I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
If the hebrew printing is dyesubs it will be perfect :p

Oooh, yeah. You'd have to look to Acer keyboards, or the original Dells (very annoying to track down outside TaoBao, and then you have stupid shipping costs) or SGI granites for that, if you want standard profile that is. I like AEK caps, but I'm also kinda meh about them due to their odd profile. It's nice, but it doesn't fit the other vintages, literally and aesthetically.

These Tai Hao caps are nice though, mainly because the FAME has a short right shift, and so it fits (I also ANSI-modded mine and eliminated the BAE because I wanted it to be exactly what I wanted and the top of the BAE had no stabilization :P).

The only short shift PBT caps I know of for sure are from the IBM 5140. This one might also be PBT, judging by the case's yellowing. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RB-2001-Clicky-Keyboard-BLUE-Sliders-XT-AT-5-Pin-RARE-MODEL-/181846396766?hash=item2a56e3cf5e:g:bf4AAOSwMmBV3MIY) Not gonna lie, I'd love the 1u key beside the short shift to say "Turbo," that would be sick.

I hear the pad printing on these is very resilient though, and hell, people really like GMK's alt legend keys like Cyrillic, and they are pad printed.

I do agree though, dye subbed PBT would be the best set up for this, and I would also be less scared of shining them. Would be really hard to find though. This one is scarce enough!
All alps caps profile are OEM right? and nope I would not get those ugly AEK caps
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: henz on Fri, 22 January 2016, 03:31:29
here is my humble alps64 with matias clickers. It needs a new case(need more angle because im not able to flip the space), hopefully something beefy :)

(http://i.imgur.com/MlSZEtG.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 03:53:02
All alps caps profile are OEM right? and nope I would not get those ugly AEK caps
Really I think it should be called “Alps cylindrical profile”, rather than “OEM profile”. It was copied by Tai Hao and others who were making Alps-compatible keycaps, and only later used for MX-compatible caps.

The Apple/AEK keycaps are a fantastic shape. People have mixed feelings about the legends, but I like them. They’d also be great dyed solid black though.

I also like the keycap shape from the Apple IIGS keyboards, which is even more aggressively stepped.

Standard Alps cylindrical dyesubs:
(http://i.imgur.com/iYZOH5P.jpg)

Tai Hao MX-compatible doubleshots:
(http://i.imgur.com/ruyFmy7.jpg)

“OEM” backlit caps from a gimmicky “gamer” board:
(http://i.imgur.com/Skd3ZQB.jpg)

AEK II:
(http://i.imgur.com/Pg2kjPE.jpg)

Apple IIGS keyboard:
(http://i.imgur.com/xba9vZW.jpg)

(compare to various other profiles at https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 22 January 2016, 04:14:04
Hey, I just tried cleaning a couple of my switchs (complicated whites) on my FK-2001, when I put them back together they are completely linear, does anyone know why this is? I put it back together perfectly.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: n__dles on Fri, 22 January 2016, 05:11:02
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!
I don't think I could resist using them, but would regret it later.
I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
I've seen more IBM's than anything else. I actually went with knock of IBM Hebrew caps from Unicomp. I'm glad I couldn't find a set of Imsto's or OG Alps and ended up with the Unicomp, because I'm really happy with this board, but wrong appreciation thread.

True storey, while looking for Hebrew Alps kbds I found this Alps touch-tone keypad from a vendor in Israel.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XmQAAOxySy9STB~W/s-l1600.jpg)
Coincedentally, I needed a touchtone keypad for a project  :cool:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 05:22:16
All alps caps profile are OEM right? and nope I would not get those ugly AEK caps

They are closer and closest to DCS, i'd say. Tai Hao is a little different. They are not 1:1 with either at all. The cap "walls" are much lower on the switch than DCS, which "float" more as they are a bit more shallow.

There was that odd instance of some Alps caps on the Keytrak keyboard that seemed very similar to Cherry doubleshots because of its profile and legend. Now I have seen boards with cherry profile caps, notably the Monterey K101 and NTC 6151N, and I do see them on others, but the legends are different. The lower profile actually gives an incredibly smooth type-feel to Alps, smoother than Alps OG or Tai Hao, though I think those look nicer.

This is also true for AEK caps, I'd say. They are lower profile and the angle makes the type feel very smooth.

I really want to try some spherical Hipro-style Alps caps from the IBM Multistation, but those are rather hard to find. They do come up every so often though.

There's also DSA-like sphericals on certain laptops and I think the TRS-80 as well. Bondwell 8T laptop has them, as well as a certain Toshiba I think.

Overall, I really like OG Alps as it stands. It's my favorite overall, even if the weird Cherry profile ones and AEK add a really nice smoothness.

here is my humble alps64 with matias clickers. It needs a new case(need more angle because im not able to flip the space), hopefully something beefy :)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/MlSZEtG.jpg)


I like this! Nice SGI caps. :D

Apple IIGS keyboard:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/xba9vZW.jpg)


(compare to various other profiles at https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550)

Still have my caps from the Apple IIc. I call them top hat caps, haha. I don't like their appearance, but that sculpt is insane!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 05:26:06
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!
I don't think I could resist using them, but would regret it later.
I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
I've seen more IBM's than anything else. I actually went with knock of IBM Hebrew caps from Unicomp. I'm glad I couldn't find a set of Imsto's or OG Alps and ended up with the Unicomp, because I'm really happy with this board, but wrong appreciation thread.

True storey, while looking for Hebrew Alps kbds I found this Alps touch-tone keypad from a vendor in Israel.
Show Image
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XmQAAOxySy9STB~W/s-l1600.jpg)

Coincedentally, I needed a touchtone keypad for a project  :cool:

That keypad is brilliant! I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it!

Glad to hear about the Unicomp. I hate using any boards I'm not totally satisfied with.

Hey, I just tried cleaning a couple of my switchs (complicated whites) on my FK-2001, when I put them back together they are completely linear, does anyone know why this is? I put it back together perfectly.

Did you make sure the slider is facing the right way (this shouldn't matter much)? Did you put the click leaves in correctly? D:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:08:40
Hey, I just tried cleaning a couple of my switchs (complicated whites) on my FK-2001, when I put them back together they are completely linear, does anyone know why this is? I put it back together perfectly.
You might have bent the click leaf out of its normal shape, or put the switch back together incorrectly.

If you carefully take apart one of the altered switches and one of the still normal switches, you might be able to figure out the difference between them.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:13:19
More
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?

This is not a bad idea actually.

Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.
I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.

I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.

Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.

Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!

I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
If the hebrew printing is dyesubs it will be perfect :p

Oooh, yeah. You'd have to look to Acer keyboards, or the original Dells (very annoying to track down outside TaoBao, and then you have stupid shipping costs) or SGI granites for that, if you want standard profile that is. I like AEK caps, but I'm also kinda meh about them due to their odd profile. It's nice, but it doesn't fit the other vintages, literally and aesthetically.

These Tai Hao caps are nice though, mainly because the FAME has a short right shift, and so it fits (I also ANSI-modded mine and eliminated the BAE because I wanted it to be exactly what I wanted and the top of the BAE had no stabilization :P).

The only short shift PBT caps I know of for sure are from the IBM 5140. This one might also be PBT, judging by the case's yellowing. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RB-2001-Clicky-Keyboard-BLUE-Sliders-XT-AT-5-Pin-RARE-MODEL-/181846396766?hash=item2a56e3cf5e:g:bf4AAOSwMmBV3MIY) Not gonna lie, I'd love the 1u key beside the short shift to say "Turbo," that would be sick.

I hear the pad printing on these is very resilient though, and hell, people really like GMK's alt legend keys like Cyrillic, and they are pad printed.

I do agree though, dye subbed PBT would be the best set up for this, and I would also be less scared of shining them. Would be really hard to find though. This one is scarce enough!

The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.

More
****.....all this talk about Amber Alps. I gotta get my hands on some!

Exactly what I thought! I bought some switches from a guy on eBay that is supposed to come from an Apple IIc so we'll see once it arrives.  :))

I'm probably one of the few who does not like Amber Alps. I tried them on one of my hotswap Eagle builds not too long ago, and they just weren't for me. I ended up trading them for more SKCM blues.


Here's a typing video of them in the Hammer.

They were incredibly tactile, but I think the carbon fiber plate and really solid case had more to do with it, perhaps. I just didn't like the click sound compared to blues. It's not as refined, but it might be a bit louder, indeed. :)

I might have been influenced by the fact I only had 26-27 loose SKCM blues at the time and desperately wanted to fill by Hammer Alps board with them, but only had enough for the alphas. Using them on the same board together, with Ambers placed everywhere other than the alphas and mods (SKCL browns there), I really did not like them side by side against blues.

I love all things Alps and since I've never tried the Amber switches, I really really want to. Really glad that even after being into Alps switches for years there's still so much more to discover. :D

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:23:50
CBA: did you see this thing (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78886)?
(http://i.imgur.com/Zt21NKc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TyCd1VK.jpg)
For $38 shipped I couldn’t pass it up; I haven’t seen many multilingual old Apple boards. It should arrive middle of next week.

Also, itzmeluigi bought:
(http://i.imgur.com/nBn4Iew.jpg)
Hopefully he’ll take some more pictures when he gets it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:27:27
Is that a Chinese layout AEKII?!?! That's so cool :D. And I like that Cyrillic layout too. Great finds
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:29:48
Can pit it in a head-to-head fight against your Taiwanese Acer 6311. The AEK II is definitely heavier though, so maybe not a fair fight.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:30:33
Can pit it in a head-to-head fight against your Taiwanese Acer 6311. The AEK II is definitely heavier though, so maybe not a fair fight.

But the 6311 was slim and had a metal backplate. Might fit better in hand and be a better weapon.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:44:34

The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:47:14

The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD

Pretty sure. I shine ABS caps up really fast. These don't have any shine on them yet.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 22 January 2016, 09:43:44
CBA: did you see this thing (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78886)?
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Zt21NKc.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/TyCd1VK.jpg)

For $38 shipped I couldn’t pass it up; I haven’t seen many multilingual old Apple boards. It should arrive middle of next week.

Also, itzmeluigi bought:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/nBn4Iew.jpg)

Hopefully he’ll take some more pictures when he gets it.

Let us know if those secondary/tertiary legend are pad print or dye sub. If dye sub I might be looking for my own Chinese AEK II!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 10:18:54

The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD

Pretty sure. I shine ABS caps up really fast. These don't have any shine on them yet.
Shine is a really unreliable way to determine ABS tbh. Some ABS shines up quite slowly and some PBT shines up pretty quickly. It also depends on environmental conditions, inherent texture, plastic formulation, etc. You're way better off with an acetone test, it's the only real way to determine it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 12:49:31

The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD

Pretty sure. I shine ABS caps up really fast. These don't have any shine on them yet.
Shine is a really unreliable way to determine ABS tbh. Some ABS shines up quite slowly and some PBT shines up pretty quickly. It also depends on environmental conditions, inherent texture, plastic formulation, etc. You're way better off with an acetone test, it's the only real way to determine it.

This might be slightly unrelated, but in my opinion, shine is almost a misnomer of sorts. At least when it comes to vintages. Most of the reason caps shine is due to a loss of texture, and so I'd imagine more surface area that your fingers can polish up upon brushing past them with an innumerable amount of keystrokes. Otherwise, in caps that are still mint, you might see some shine, but only on the raised areas of the textured surface that are actually making contact with your fingers.

Another case in point being that I can use a polishing cloth to remove shine from caps, only to have the shine come back in a few hours because the texture is already worn on the keys.

Both can shine up very quick if the texture is lost. I've got both PBT and ABS examples of this.

I agree, an Acetone test would be best.

Speaking of which, did the guy on Deskthority who ran that mini GB for those small Greek Nan Tan 6581 keyboards ever get back to anyone on whether or not the MCK-101FX he had was actually doubleshot PBT? chzel I think his name was.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 12:51:52
Seems like a lot of work to answer a question that won't change much. I'll just keep calling it dyesubbed PBT because there's no shine and it feels rough like all the other PBT caps I've used. I'm ok with being wrong :))
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 13:02:44
Seems like a lot of work to answer a question that won't change much. I'll just keep calling it dyesubbed PBT because there's no shine and it feels rough like all the other PBT caps I've used. I'm ok with being wrong :))

Love the PBT life, live the PBT life, no matter what you type on!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 15:48:37

The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD

Pretty sure. I shine ABS caps up really fast. These don't have any shine on them yet.
Shine is a really unreliable way to determine ABS tbh. Some ABS shines up quite slowly and some PBT shines up pretty quickly. It also depends on environmental conditions, inherent texture, plastic formulation, etc. You're way better off with an acetone test, it's the only real way to determine it.

This might be slightly unrelated, but in my opinion, shine is almost a misnomer of sorts. At least when it comes to vintages. Most of the reason caps shine is due to a loss of texture, and so I'd imagine more surface area that your fingers can polish up upon brushing past them with an innumerable amount of keystrokes. Otherwise, in caps that are still mint, you might see some shine, but only on the raised areas of the textured surface that are actually making contact with your fingers.

Another case in point being that I can use a polishing cloth to remove shine from caps, only to have the shine come back in a few hours because the texture is already worn on the keys.

Both can shine up very quick if the texture is lost. I've got both PBT and ABS examples of this.

I agree, an Acetone test would be best.

Speaking of which, did the guy on Deskthority who ran that mini GB for those small Greek Nan Tan 6581 keyboards ever get back to anyone on whether or not the MCK-101FX he had was actually doubleshot PBT? chzel I think his name was.
No, as far as I know this is still a mystery...

Seems like a lot of work to answer a question that won't change much. I'll just keep calling it dyesubbed PBT because there's no shine and it feels rough like all the other PBT caps I've used. I'm ok with being wrong :))
xD

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Fri, 22 January 2016, 17:27:09
Seems like a lot of work to answer a question that won't change much. I'll just keep calling it dyesubbed PBT because there's no shine and it feels rough like all the other PBT caps I've used. I'm ok with being wrong :))

I was under the impression that only PBT could be dyesubbed am I misinformed?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 22 January 2016, 17:30:15
Have people forgot that ABS floats in water and PBT sinks?
I mean... that's the oldest trick in the GH book.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 18:53:49
Have people forgot that ABS floats in water and PBT sinks?
I mean... that's the oldest trick in the GH book.
Yup, and it doesn't work! :P My first ever youtube erratum was because I believed in that nonsense :p .

Seems like a lot of work to answer a question that won't change much. I'll just keep calling it dyesubbed PBT because there's no shine and it feels rough like all the other PBT caps I've used. I'm ok with being wrong :))

I was under the impression that only PBT could be dyesubbed am I misinformed?
It's still not completely sure. I did cut open an ABS cap from a 6312 once though and I showed a picture of how the printing was below-skin, strongly suggesting it was dye-sublimed.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 19:20:32
I don’t think regular ABS can handle the dye-sublimation printing process, its melting temperature is too low. If you try to heat ABS to 400 °F or whatever, you’ll end up with a little plastic puddle.

Those dyesub Acer caps might not be PBT, but if not I’m not sure what plastic mix they are. Maybe something unique.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 19:58:55
I don’t think regular ABS can handle the dye-sublimation printing process, its melting temperature is too low. If you try to heat ABS to 400 °F or whatever, you’ll end up with a little plastic puddle.

Those dyesub Acer caps might not be PBT, but if not I’m not sure what plastic mix they are. Maybe something unique.
ABS is available in many mixtures, maybe it's something related to that. If I still had access to the DSC and TGA I cold find out easily xD .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 01:37:35
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?

This is not a bad idea actually.

Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.
I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.

I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.

Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.

Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!

I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.

A great idea actually. SKCM Amber to me is a SKCM Blue with higher tactility. Otherwise they are just as smooooth as SKCM Blues.

Trust me, the FAME is adored  :) SKCM Blue with a metal backplate is a great combo imo. Still cant belive that Datatech keyboard sold for $350 although :eek:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 23 January 2016, 01:54:47
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?
This is not a bad idea actually.
A great idea actually.
I don’t get it. For the most part the modifier keys are pressed by weaker fingers. There’s IMO no reason to use extra stiff switches for them.

Maybe use a stiffer switch for a particularly long spacebar, or “big-ass” return key? Otherwise, putting stiff switches on shift, return, tab, etc. seems totally backwards.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 09:20:37
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Pdub on Sat, 23 January 2016, 10:32:53
I don’t think regular ABS can handle the dye-sublimation printing process, its melting temperature is too low. If you try to heat ABS to 400 °F or whatever, you’ll end up with a little plastic puddle.

Those dyesub Acer caps might not be PBT, but if not I’m not sure what plastic mix they are. Maybe something unique.

Correct! And I am not sure what plastic they are either.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: n__dles on Sat, 23 January 2016, 10:50:40
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.
Didn't Tai-Hao require that all caps be the same language to reach MOQ? I'd support this regardless, but I'd prefer another manufacturer.

Approximately how much would double shot latin legend and pad printed second legend be at SP be?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:06:13
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.
Didn't Tai-Hao require that all caps be the same language to reach MOQ? I'd support this regardless, but I'd prefer another manufacturer.

Approximately how much would double shot latin legend and pad printed second legend be at SP be?

When badwrench got the first Alps set to SP, the full set for latin legends and blue mods was around $150, so DO would likely be even more than that for secondaries.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:16:50
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.
Didn't Tai-Hao require that all caps be the same language to reach MOQ? I'd support this regardless, but I'd prefer another manufacturer.

Approximately how much would double shot latin legend and pad printed second legend be at SP be?
When badwrench got the first Alps set to SP, the full set for latin legends and blue mods was around $150, so DO would likely be even more than that for secondaries.
I just wish that SP DCS caps would be thicker cause SP DCS feels like a cheap smaller profile tai hoa keycaps
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:18:10
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.

Very very interested in Chinese layout caps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 25 January 2016, 06:13:50
I want to appreciate alps because my Orange alps just came from the mail and damn even tho it doesn't have caps or board it feels really good just like topre but the tactile is better with this
Wish I know alps before so I can join for the alps pcb GB

Still waiting for my blue alps tho  :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Mon, 25 January 2016, 06:20:07
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.
I contacted them a few weeks ago, the MOQ is 500 at $15 per set. Additional languages would each need there own MOQ.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: n__dles on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:55:48
To soon after Alpine Winter to try another SP GB?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 25 January 2016, 20:29:01
Anyone familiar with the stabilizers on Zeniths? This board is really feeling great to type on, but the spacebar stabilizer inserts look to be made of a different material than the other stabilized keys. It has a really jarring, high-pitched, super unpleasant sound when they make contact with the plate. The other stabilized keys make a nice "thock" that sounds like all of the unstabilized keys, but the spacebar sounds like it's just plain mounted wrong or something. I think it's actually the inserts that are the problem? I've double and triple checked the way the stab and inserts sit and the key is definitely mounted and setup correctly, unless there is some fine minutiae that I'm missing with Alps stabs. When the inserts make contact with the plate it sounds like death. Here's a pic of the different materials:

(http://i.imgur.com/mWwNYQ7.jpg)

The brown insert on the right is in the caps lock key, sounds excellent. The black insert on the left is the spacebar one, and is unfortunately not interchangeable because of its length. It's seriously the only thing stopping me from making this my daily work board. Send halp.  :confused:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 25 January 2016, 21:21:36
Some alps keyboard have little felt pads under the spacebar stabilizers.

Or you could probably swap out the inserts for those from another keyboard.

The bigger problem is that those Zenith boards just have stupidly long spacebars.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 00:20:32
(http://i.imgur.com/tC8MPLs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yxWRBpe.jpg)
Kinda dusty, and definitely not mint condition, but overall in pretty good shape. PBT in general is pretty hard wearing.

The red dye in particular is impressively crisp with very even color. The blue is slightly less even, but it’s not really too noticeable unless you put your eyeball a few inches away.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 00:32:17
Those look excellent, very nice  :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 00:59:13
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tC8MPLs.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/yxWRBpe.jpg)

Kinda dusty, and definitely not mint condition, but overall in pretty good shape. PBT in general is pretty hard wearing.

The red dye in particular is impressively crisp with very even color. The blue is slightly less even, but it’s not really too noticeable unless you put your eyeball a few inches away.

I am more than a little jealous.  Caps look like an AEK or AEKII (and the spacebar and mods look right for one of those), but I've only seen black Japanese characters on those.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 January 2016, 02:08:13
Anyone familiar with the stabilizers on Zeniths? This board is really feeling great to type on, but the spacebar stabilizer inserts look to be made of a different material than the other stabilized keys. It has a really jarring, high-pitched, super unpleasant sound when they make contact with the plate. The other stabilized keys make a nice "thock" that sounds like all of the unstabilized keys, but the spacebar sounds like it's just plain mounted wrong or something. I think it's actually the inserts that are the problem? I've double and triple checked the way the stab and inserts sit and the key is definitely mounted and setup correctly, unless there is some fine minutiae that I'm missing with Alps stabs. When the inserts make contact with the plate it sounds like death. Here's a pic of the different materials:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/mWwNYQ7.jpg)


The brown insert on the right is in the caps lock key, sounds excellent. The black insert on the left is the spacebar one, and is unfortunately not interchangeable because of its length. It's seriously the only thing stopping me from making this my daily work board. Send halp.  :confused:
I've had something similar on another board. Get one of those spongy square minicloths for in your kitchen. Cut out a small square (<1 cm^2) and cut down its thickness to 1 mm or less. Stick that under the stabs with some double sided tape, should fix it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 03:15:19
Caps look like an AEK or AEKII (and the spacebar and mods look right for one of those), but I've only seen black Japanese characters on those.
Yes, it’s an AEK II with Taiwanese legends.

I also found (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78886) a Russian one last week, which itzmeluigi bought. Here’s the pic from the ebay auction:
(http://i.imgur.com/nBn4Iew.jpg)

Hopefully he’ll take some closer pictures when he gets it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Den441 on Tue, 26 January 2016, 03:18:39
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tC8MPLs.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/yxWRBpe.jpg)

Kinda dusty, and definitely not mint condition, but overall in pretty good shape. PBT in general is pretty hard wearing.

The red dye in particular is impressively crisp with very even color. The blue is slightly less even, but it’s not really too noticeable unless you put your eyeball a few inches away.

Wow, those caps are amazing! The shade of blue is great. Do you know the model # on that board? I've only seen the ones with black legends as well.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 03:20:27
On the back it looks like any AEK II. Made in USA, FCC ID BCGM3501, bar code *AP15401C%M0312TA*

(Usually the end bit of the bar code on these is just M3501 or M0312, without the TA. I think M0312)

Cream Alps switches, okay but not amazing condition. Some yellowing on spacebar and case. A fair bit of shine on the spacebar, and oddly quite a bit on the left command key. The rest of the keycaps are in good but not perfect condition.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 03:31:00
On the back it looks like any AEK II. Made in USA, FCC ID BCGM3501, bar code *AP15401C%M0312TA*

(Usually the end bit of the bar code on these is just M3501 or M0312, without the TA. I think M0312)

Cream Alps switches, okay but not amazing condition.

Apple hardware made in the US - rare these days!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Den441 on Tue, 26 January 2016, 04:01:33
On the back it looks like any AEK II. Made in USA, FCC ID BCGM3501, bar code *AP15401C%M0312TA*

(Usually the end bit of the bar code on these is just M3501 or M0312, without the TA. I think M0312)

Cream Alps switches, okay but not amazing condition. Some yellowing on spacebar and case. A fair bit of shine on the spacebar, and oddly quite a bit on the left command key. The rest of the keycaps are in good but not perfect condition.

Thanks, I love it. The japanese layout on it seems different from the AEKs I have seen with black legends. Can't find anymore info about it though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 January 2016, 04:05:43
On the back it looks like any AEK II. Made in USA, FCC ID BCGM3501, bar code *AP15401C%M0312TA*

(Usually the end bit of the bar code on these is just M3501 or M0312, without the TA. I think M0312)

Cream Alps switches, okay but not amazing condition.

Apple hardware made in the US - rare these days!
Still made by Asians though :p .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 05:30:27
Anyone familiar with the stabilizers on Zeniths? This board is really feeling great to type on, but the spacebar stabilizer inserts look to be made of a different material than the other stabilized keys. It has a really jarring, high-pitched, super unpleasant sound when they make contact with the plate. The other stabilized keys make a nice "thock" that sounds like all of the unstabilized keys, but the spacebar sounds like it's just plain mounted wrong or something. I think it's actually the inserts that are the problem? I've double and triple checked the way the stab and inserts sit and the key is definitely mounted and setup correctly, unless there is some fine minutiae that I'm missing with Alps stabs. When the inserts make contact with the plate it sounds like death. Here's a pic of the different materials:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/mWwNYQ7.jpg)


The brown insert on the right is in the caps lock key, sounds excellent. The black insert on the left is the spacebar one, and is unfortunately not interchangeable because of its length. It's seriously the only thing stopping me from making this my daily work board. Send halp.  :confused:

I would say this is usually a case of a rickety space bar and not so much the stab inserts. In my experience, the brown and black and even translucent white ones have no differences between them, no significant differences anyway. What I would do in your situation if I were you, is lube the wire and stabs. This usually quiets up the sound very well. It was like this on my Focus FK-555. I hated the space bar sound, but after I lubed the stabs (this one had plate-mounted Cherry stabs), it sounded fine again (lubing costar and Alps-style stabs really quiets them too, so I recommend this to everyone). It is true that many with Alps stabs all around use little rubber or foam pads to combat spacebar thwack, so you could look into that too if the lube does not help.

Yeah, space bar inserts are usually different on Alps boards, and they more so have, like, closed in slots where as normal stabs are open-ended. Combined with the cylindrical peg that also helps stabilize the space bar, and it makes putting the space bar on a real PITA.

Haha. Good luck nonetheless, man!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 05:56:06
So I've finally acquired one of my last dream boards, and this one really is a gem. Not only is it very seldomly seen, but I have never seen one in this mint of a condition. Not on Sandy's website, and not in the instances I've seen these on Deskthority and Geekhack (one with Mandolin, the other with Nuum, and before that, fossala). All of those except the ones on Sandy's site also had black cables and what I'd call more simplified FCC stickers and such. Also, some of those examples lacked the Caps Lock/Ctrl swapping swtch (weird quirk, I know) and rubberized flip out feet.

So this one is flawless, and the only Alps board I've gotten to date that needs no sort of restoration whatsoever. No rust, no scratches, and no yellowing and a the cable's coil are in perfect condition. Of course, now I don't want to type on it because of this. Lol. I retired my FAME because of its Hebrew caps, and now I don't want to use this because it's too clean. Sooo both of my metal backed boards are retired.

(http://i.imgur.com/hGk0Cf1.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)

That said, I also picked up a Leading Edge DC-3014 which needed some TLC on the plastics, though its plate was fine, and I don't mind using it! So it's definitely my daily driver in the vintage world now. Blue Alps, NKRO, made in Korea, and using my Dell AT101's PBT caps. Feels nice, man.

BEFORE

(http://i.imgur.com/9GhHZpI.jpg)

AFTER

(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)

Use parts from the DC-2014 to fix things up--the cable and the logo mainly, since the logo on the DC-3014 started to fade after retrobrighting.

Yep! I hear that retrobrighting only lasts for around half a decade before the yellowing returns--I'm hoping not to see this in the boards I've restored, but it's one reason I don't mind using them either. Since the FK-555 has never been yellowed, I don't want to expose it. Plus, the case is amazingly texture. I don't want my palms rubbing up against it and shining it up. :P

Finally, a group shot of all my like-cased keyboards. All big-foot reminiscent. All but the AT101 have blue Alps.

(http://i.imgur.com/LJuF0NG.jpg)

Clockwise, starting from the bottom.

Alps Electric Dell AT101

Tai Hao FAME TH-5539

Focus FK-555

Monterey K101

The AT101's cable is phenomenal. Just ridiculously long, even in the coils alone.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 05:56:29
Whoops!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 26 January 2016, 06:28:42
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tC8MPLs.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/yxWRBpe.jpg)

Kinda dusty, and definitely not mint condition, but overall in pretty good shape. PBT in general is pretty hard wearing.

The red dye in particular is impressively crisp with very even color. The blue is slightly less even, but it’s not really too noticeable unless you put your eyeball a few inches away.

So I've finally acquired one of my last dream boards, and this one really is a gem. Not only is it very seldomly seen, but I have never seen one in this mint of a condition. Not on Sandy's website, and not in the instances I've seen these on Deskthority and Geekhack (one with Mandolin, the other with Nuum, and before that, fossala). All of those except the ones on Sandy's site also had black cables and what I'd call more simplified FCC stickers and such. Also, some of those examples lacked the Caps Lock/Ctrl swapping swtch (weird quirk, I know) and rubberized flip out feet.

So this one is flawless, and the only Alps board I've gotten to date that needs no sort of restoration whatsoever. No rust, no scratches, and no yellowing and a the cable's coil are in perfect condition. Of course, now I don't want to type on it because of this. Lol. I retired my FAME because of its Hebrew caps, and now I don't want to use this because it's too clean. Sooo both of my metal backed boards are retired.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/hGk0Cf1.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)


That said, I also picked up a Leading Edge DC-3014 which needed some TLC on the plastics, though its plate was fine, and I don't mind using it! So it's definitely my daily driver in the vintage world now. Blue Alps, NKRO, made in Korea, and using my Dell AT101's PBT caps. Feels nice, man.

BEFORE

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9GhHZpI.jpg)


AFTER

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)


Use parts from the DC-2014 to fix things up--the cable and the logo mainly, since the logo on the DC-3014 started to fade after retrobrighting.

Yep! I hear that retrobrighting only lasts for around half a decade before the yellowing returns--I'm hoping not to see this in the boards I've restored, but it's one reason I don't mind using them either. Since the FK-555 has never been yellowed, I don't want to expose it. Plus, the case is amazingly texture. I don't want my palms rubbing up against it and shining it up. :P

Finally, a group shot of all my like-cased keyboards. All big-foot reminiscent. All but the AT101 have blue Alps.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LJuF0NG.jpg)


Clockwise, starting from the bottom.

Alps Electric Dell AT101

Tai Hao FAME TH-5539

Focus FK-555

Monterey K101

The AT101's cable is phenomenal. Just ridiculously long, even in the coils alone.

So much Alps porn in these two posts. Those AEK caps look so good and I can't believe you found three Blue SKCM boards so quickly E3E!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: henz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 06:34:06
So I've finally acquired one of my last dream boards, and this one really is a gem. Not only is it very seldomly seen, but I have never seen one in this mint of a condition. Not on Sandy's website, and not in the instances I've seen these on Deskthority and Geekhack (one with Mandolin, the other with Nuum, and before that, fossala). All of those except the ones on Sandy's site also had black cables and what I'd call more simplified FCC stickers and such. Also, some of those examples lacked the Caps Lock/Ctrl swapping swtch (weird quirk, I know) and rubberized flip out feet.

So this one is flawless, and the only Alps board I've gotten to date that needs no sort of restoration whatsoever. No rust, no scratches, and no yellowing and a the cable's coil are in perfect condition. Of course, now I don't want to type on it because of this. Lol. I retired my FAME because of its Hebrew caps, and now I don't want to use this because it's too clean. Sooo both of my metal backed boards are retired.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/hGk0Cf1.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)


That said, I also picked up a Leading Edge DC-3014 which needed some TLC on the plastics, though its plate was fine, and I don't mind using it! So it's definitely my daily driver in the vintage world now. Blue Alps, NKRO, made in Korea, and using my Dell AT101's PBT caps. Feels nice, man.

BEFORE

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9GhHZpI.jpg)


AFTER

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)


Use parts from the DC-2014 to fix things up--the cable and the logo mainly, since the logo on the DC-3014 started to fade after retrobrighting.

Yep! I hear that retrobrighting only lasts for around half a decade before the yellowing returns--I'm hoping not to see this in the boards I've restored, but it's one reason I don't mind using them either. Since the FK-555 has never been yellowed, I don't want to expose it. Plus, the case is amazingly texture. I don't want my palms rubbing up against it and shining it up. :P

Finally, a group shot of all my like-cased keyboards. All big-foot reminiscent. All but the AT101 have blue Alps.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LJuF0NG.jpg)


Clockwise, starting from the bottom.

Alps Electric Dell AT101

Tai Hao FAME TH-5539

Focus FK-555

Monterey K101

The AT101's cable is phenomenal. Just ridiculously long, even in the coils alone.

Sweeet
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 January 2016, 07:07:14
Wow, someone is addicted to blue Alps :P . Amazing finds man, many contrafibularities! :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: pr0ximity on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:49:41
Anyone familiar with the stabilizers on Zeniths? This board is really feeling great to type on, but the spacebar stabilizer inserts look to be made of a different material than the other stabilized keys. It has a really jarring, high-pitched, super unpleasant sound when they make contact with the plate. The other stabilized keys make a nice "thock" that sounds like all of the unstabilized keys, but the spacebar sounds like it's just plain mounted wrong or something. I think it's actually the inserts that are the problem? I've double and triple checked the way the stab and inserts sit and the key is definitely mounted and setup correctly, unless there is some fine minutiae that I'm missing with Alps stabs. When the inserts make contact with the plate it sounds like death. Here's a pic of the different materials:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/mWwNYQ7.jpg)


The brown insert on the right is in the caps lock key, sounds excellent. The black insert on the left is the spacebar one, and is unfortunately not interchangeable because of its length. It's seriously the only thing stopping me from making this my daily work board. Send halp.  :confused:

I would say this is usually a case of a rickety space bar and not so much the stab inserts. In my experience, the brown and black and even translucent white ones have no differences between them, no significant differences anyway. What I would do in your situation if I were you, is lube the wire and stabs. This usually quiets up the sound very well. It was like this on my Focus FK-555. I hated the space bar sound, but after I lubed the stabs (this one had plate-mounted Cherry stabs), it sounded fine again (lubing costar and Alps-style stabs really quiets them too, so I recommend this to everyone). It is true that many with Alps stabs all around use little rubber or foam pads to combat spacebar thwack, so you could look into that too if the lube does not help.

Yeah, space bar inserts are usually different on Alps boards, and they more so have, like, closed in slots where as normal stabs are open-ended. Combined with the cylindrical peg that also helps stabilize the space bar, and it makes putting the space bar on a real PITA.

Haha. Good luck nonetheless, man!

I'm now an expert at putting on and taking off this gigantic Zenith spacebar! Right now I have some pieces of plastic cut from the backplate (there's a sheet of thick, stiff plastic between the PCB and the metal backplate) taped to the plate with painter's tape and it seems to be working pretty well. Still some tweaking to be done to get it feeling like the other keys on the board, but it's at least usable now :) I also put some of the foam I used on my Model F restoration under the spacebar where the stabilizing peg meets the cap, and where the stem meets the cap, kind of like soft, thin o-rings. I think the peg was slamming down onto the top of the plastic insert that it sits in and that was also pretty jarring.

Great board though, pretty fun to type on for sure. I think the Greens are close to my lubed Gateron Blacks in smoothness, but they're much more snappy. I think a wet lube tests to slow switches down a tad, and the Greens are nice because they feel completely unencumbered. Off-center presses definitely rub a little oddly on some keys, I attribute it to the sprue marks on the side of the stems that makes contact with the switch housing. Not very noticeable unless you're really pressing the key slowly and trying your hardest to pay attention. There's also some brief resistance when the stem meets the contact leaf as it bends out of the way which I find interesting, but that's also not noticeable during regular use.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:56:43
There's also some brief resistance when the stem meets the contact leaf as it bends out of the way which I find interesting, but that's also not noticeable during regular use.

Glad to hear that you're really enjoying the Zenith, since I remember your initial impressions weren't the best, haha. That's kind of how I felt with my Focus FK-555, a board I have been hunting for a relatively long time, only to feel that the space bar was cheap-feeling and really icky and plasticy. I popped it off only to see plate-mounted Cherry stabs in WHITE housings of all colors. Just added some lube to the stab wire and now it's A-okay!

Also, I'm loving your ingenuity and resourcefulness with this one too, in using the foam to add dampening and bits of the plastic "shield" between the case and PCB for the space bar thwack, if I understood that correctly.

About the contact leaf remark though, I find that greens and indeed any linear Alps switch has a very minute bit of tactility you can only feel if you really look out for it or push the switch down very slowly. This is just because of how the contact leaf works, I'd say.

A good example is how, in tactile brown switches, they used a dummy plate with a spring leaf clipped onto it (much like the contact leaf) that is very similar to the contact leaf itself. It gives brown tactile switches a really odd sense of tactility. I couldn't feel much of it when I tried the individual switches, but mounted in my board, the story was far different. Very tactile! Not the biggest fan of tactile Alps though, I must admit.

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:17:58
Hows brown tactile compared to orange alps?
And what is the difference between orange and salmon alps?

There is just too much type of alps!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:20:18

And what is the difference between orange and salmon alps?


In my experience, very little difference. Orange is earlier and preferable, to me.

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:22:01
Hows brown tactile compared to orange alps?
And what is the difference between orange and salmon alps?

There is just too much type of alps!

Salmon is stiffer and uses a short contact plate. Orange Alps uses a long contact plate and is quite a bit lighter. Lighter than even blue Alps, but not as light as green linear Alps.

Salmons feel a bit clunky in comparison, though they have a bit more tactility, though not as much as SKCM browns or SKCM ambers.

To me, brown tactiles are a little hard to describe. The tactility has a rounded feel and the bottom out brings it home. By itself, it's pretty tactile, but the bottom out really seems to amplify the feeling, if you ask me. The weight is around 65g I'd say. Orange is around 60g.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:33:19
To me, brown tactiles are a little hard to describe. The tactility has a rounded feel and the bottom out brings it home.
Interesting. When you say "rounded", does it feel a little bit like SKCM neon green perhaps? Although I'd imagine with stronger tactility.

They're a very interesting switch design. Although Alps gave it up as soon as they could, Omron stuck with it. It's interesting to see how the two families diverged from a common ancestor.

I'd love to try out brown Alps someday. And amber ones. I've had so many types already, but it's like a Hydra, the more you tick off the list, the more keep popping up for you to try! xD
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:35:05
Are alps really that wobbly? Doesn't have a keycaps to compare the wobbliness
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:36:32
Are alps really that wobbly? Doesn't have a keycaps to compare the wobbliness
Compared to my MX Reds, my complicated white alps do wobble more, but not a huge amount.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:37:25
When you say "rounded", does [brown Alps] feel a little bit like SKCM neon green perhaps? Although I'd imagine with stronger tactility.
Yes, they are quite similar, but the brown ones are substantially stiffer with bigger drop in force after the tactile leaf gives way. This makes it hard to avoid bottoming out pretty hard, and I find them tiring to type on.

Quote
They're a very interesting switch design. Although Alps gave it up as soon as they could, Omron stuck with it. It's interesting to see how the two families diverged from a common ancestor.
Can you explain what you mean?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:42:01
I'm quite upset I messed up my FK-2001, still works but I would rather use my completely functional Keycool with MX Reds than a messed up FK-2001. It's all my fault, live and learn I guess. At least I got to try a new switch type.

I think I'm going to try a Matias board next, either a KBParadise V80 or possibly a Matias board, from what people have told me, Matias switches feel smoother and lighter than Complicated Whites. I'm also thinking of picking up a Dell AT-101 since they are dirt cheap, but the keyboard is too damn huge!

Also thinking of picking up a SGI Graphite keyboard with dampened white alps, love the dye-sub thick PBT keycaps, but it's really yellowed and turned the case green!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:44:43
To me, brown tactiles are a little hard to describe. The tactility has a rounded feel and the bottom out brings it home.
Interesting. When you say "rounded", does it feel a little bit like SKCM neon green perhaps? Although I'd imagine with stronger tactility.

They're a very interesting switch design. Although Alps gave it up as soon as they could, Omron stuck with it. It's interesting to see how the two families diverged from a common ancestor.

I'd love to try out brown Alps someday. And amber ones. I've had so many types already, but it's like a Hydra, the more you tick off the list, the more keep popping up for you to try! xD

Sounds like you've been been having some fun, Chyros! Do you have a Xerox you're wanting to tell us about? Yep, the brown tactiles are related to the SKCM green switches and the tactile design is very similar, though simplified in the SKCM green switch (leaf spring instead of the whole dummy plate assembly). I'd say that SKCM green is to SKCM brown, what SKCM Salmon is to SKCM orange, as they both have short contact plates.

Yes, it definitely has a more solid feel, but really, I only feel it strongly on the bottom out. Without that, the tactility is really just roundeed out and subtle. I don't know why the bottom out seems to create a greater sense of tactility on these, but I can imagine that's why they're always compared to Topre, because of that and the rounded tactility.

Are you saying that Omron used a dummy plate for tactility too? I haven't ever looked into them!

You're so right when it comes to the endless varieties of Alps to try, man. It's hard to catch 'em all! Amber Alps really remind me of how tactile brown Alps feel. It also had a click leaf that was unique from the others I've seen, but it wasn't so much in the same shape as SKCM green or brown. It didn't have a bottom lip and the two forks, if you will, were bent at a sharp right angle compared to other leaves.

It DID feel similar to the feel of switches I've played with whose tactile leaves I bent a bit too sharply, actually.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:48:48
Are alps really that wobbly? Doesn't have a keycaps to compare the wobbliness

Linear alps switches with long contact plates like SKCL green and SKCL brown are less wobbly, I think, because of their symmetrical slider design. It's almost silly to imagine that this contributes to less wobble, but compare to non-symmetrical sliders like on blue and orange Alps, the greens and browns are very stable.

I wouldn't say that Alps are more wobbly than MX though, but my MX memory might be fuzzy.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:58:08
I'm quite upset I messed up my FK-2001, still works but I would rather use my completely functional Keycool with MX Reds than a messed up FK-2001. It's all my fault, live and learn I guess. At least I got to try a new switch type.
I looked at your post history, and it seems you disassembled one of the switches, cleaned it, and put it back, and now it doesn’t click?

The way a clicky Alps switch works is that when you press down on the slider, the corner of the click leaf gets bent toward the slider, and then when the slider gets past the little legs, the click leaf snaps back against the plastic housing, causing the sound.

(http://i.imgur.com/upQWT.gif)
(This gif exaggerates the amount of twisting the slider will do, because the little groove that it usually tracks has been cut away from the near side. It also doesn’t show the switch being pressed all the way.)

If it’s not clicking, that means either the switch isn’t assembled correctly (e.g. the click leaf isn’t seated properly, the slider is flipped backwards, or similar), something else is inside the switch preventing the leaf from bending away from the wall or snapping back, or the click leaf is bent out of its correct shape.

How are you reassembling the switch? I find that the easiest way when the bottom of the switch is soldered down is to put all the loose parts (slider, click leaf, spring) into the top housing, with the slider pushed in so that the click leaf stays in snugly, flip the whole keyboard upside down, carefully get the spring aligned with the central peg, and then snap the top housing back into the bottom housing with the slider held in with my finger.

(But actually I reassemble these quite a bit faster when they’re not soldered down at all)

If the switch is assembled properly but still not clicking, that means either there’s something else inside there, or the click leaf has been bent out of shape. If you disassemble two switches you can compare their click leaves to see if there’s any obvious difference. If you’re careful you can make subtle changes to the feel of a switch by slightly bending the click leaf one way or another.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 January 2016, 21:00:33
Are alps really that wobbly? Doesn't have a keycaps to compare the wobbliness

Linear alps switches with long contact plates like SKCL green and SKCL brown are less wobbly, I think, because of their symmetrical slider design. It's almost silly to imagine that this contributes to less wobble, but compare to non-symmetrical sliders like on blue and orange Alps, the greens and browns are very stable.

I wouldn't say that Alps are more wobbly than MX though, but my MX memory might be fuzzy.
Thank you bro
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:39:16
I'm quite upset I messed up my FK-2001, still works but I would rather use my completely functional Keycool with MX Reds than a messed up FK-2001. It's all my fault, live and learn I guess. At least I got to try a new switch type.
I looked at your post history, and it seems you disassembled one of the switches, cleaned it, and put it back, and now it doesn’t click?

The way a clicky Alps switch works is that when you press down on the slider, the corner of the click leaf gets bent toward the slider, and then when the slider gets past the little legs, the click leaf snaps back against the plastic housing, causing the sound.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/upQWT.gif)

(This gif exaggerates the amount of twisting the slider will do, because the little groove that it usually tracks has been cut away from the near side. It also doesn’t show the switch being pressed all the way.)

If it’s not clicking, that means either the switch isn’t assembled correctly (e.g. the click leaf isn’t seated properly, the slider is flipped backwards, or similar), something else is inside the switch preventing the leaf from bending away from the wall or snapping back, or the click leaf is bent out of its correct shape.

How are you reassembling the switch? I find that the easiest way when the bottom of the switch is soldered down is to put all the loose parts (slider, click leaf, spring) into the top housing, with the slider pushed in so that the click leaf stays in snugly, flip the whole keyboard upside down, carefully get the spring aligned with the central peg, and then snap the top housing back into the bottom housing with the slider held in with my finger.

(But actually I reassemble these quite a bit faster when they’re not soldered down at all)

If the switch is assembled properly but still not clicking, that means either there’s something else inside there, or the click leaf has been bent out of shape. If you disassemble two switches you can compare their click leaves to see if there’s any obvious difference. If you’re careful you can make subtle changes to the feel of a switch by slightly bending the click leaf one way or another.

Thanks, but I have tried swapping click leaves and sliders from other switches but nothing seems to help, I should also mention there is no tactility at all either, completely linear. sometimes with a very weak click, tried reversing the sliders, nothing.

I've done it to multiple switches, if it was just one I wouldn't feel so bad :L, thankfully none of the alphabetical keys.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:41:11
If you’re killing the click on multiple switches, you’re probably reassembling them incorrectly.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:48:04
So I've finally acquired one of my last dream boards, and this one really is a gem. Not only is it very seldomly seen, but I have never seen one in this mint of a condition. Not on Sandy's website, and not in the instances I've seen these on Deskthority and Geekhack (one with Mandolin, the other with Nuum, and before that, fossala). All of those except the ones on Sandy's site also had black cables and what I'd call more simplified FCC stickers and such. Also, some of those examples lacked the Caps Lock/Ctrl swapping swtch (weird quirk, I know) and rubberized flip out feet.

So this one is flawless, and the only Alps board I've gotten to date that needs no sort of restoration whatsoever. No rust, no scratches, and no yellowing and a the cable's coil are in perfect condition. Of course, now I don't want to type on it because of this. Lol. I retired my FAME because of its Hebrew caps, and now I don't want to use this because it's too clean. Sooo both of my metal backed boards are retired.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/hGk0Cf1.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)


That said, I also picked up a Leading Edge DC-3014 which needed some TLC on the plastics, though its plate was fine, and I don't mind using it! So it's definitely my daily driver in the vintage world now. Blue Alps, NKRO, made in Korea, and using my Dell AT101's PBT caps. Feels nice, man.

BEFORE

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9GhHZpI.jpg)


AFTER

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)


Use parts from the DC-2014 to fix things up--the cable and the logo mainly, since the logo on the DC-3014 started to fade after retrobrighting.

Yep! I hear that retrobrighting only lasts for around half a decade before the yellowing returns--I'm hoping not to see this in the boards I've restored, but it's one reason I don't mind using them either. Since the FK-555 has never been yellowed, I don't want to expose it. Plus, the case is amazingly texture. I don't want my palms rubbing up against it and shining it up. :P

Finally, a group shot of all my like-cased keyboards. All big-foot reminiscent. All but the AT101 have blue Alps.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LJuF0NG.jpg)


Clockwise, starting from the bottom.

Alps Electric Dell AT101

Tai Hao FAME TH-5539

Focus FK-555

Monterey K101

The AT101's cable is phenomenal. Just ridiculously long, even in the coils alone.

The ultimate Alps porn lol. Nice man! Just finished my SKCM Orange SGI AT101 swap. Still needs some retrobrite.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 27 January 2016, 02:40:21
To me, brown tactiles are a little hard to describe. The tactility has a rounded feel and the bottom out brings it home.
Interesting. When you say "rounded", does it feel a little bit like SKCM neon green perhaps? Although I'd imagine with stronger tactility.

They're a very interesting switch design. Although Alps gave it up as soon as they could, Omron stuck with it. It's interesting to see how the two families diverged from a common ancestor.

I'd love to try out brown Alps someday. And amber ones. I've had so many types already, but it's like a Hydra, the more you tick off the list, the more keep popping up for you to try! xD

Sounds like you've been been having some fun, Chyros! Do you have a Xerox you're wanting to tell us about? Yep, the brown tactiles are related to the SKCM green switches and the tactile design is very similar, though simplified in the SKCM green switch (leaf spring instead of the whole dummy plate assembly). I'd say that SKCM green is to SKCM brown, what SKCM Salmon is to SKCM orange, as they both have short contact plates.

Yes, it definitely has a more solid feel, but really, I only feel it strongly on the bottom out. Without that, the tactility is really just roundeed out and subtle. I don't know why the bottom out seems to create a greater sense of tactility on these, but I can imagine that's why they're always compared to Topre, because of that and the rounded tactility.

Are you saying that Omron used a dummy plate for tactility too? I haven't ever looked into them!

You're so right when it comes to the endless varieties of Alps to try, man. It's hard to catch 'em all! Amber Alps really remind me of how tactile brown Alps feel. It also had a click leaf that was unique from the others I've seen, but it wasn't so much in the same shape as SKCM green or brown. It didn't have a bottom lip and the two forks, if you will, were bent at a sharp right angle compared to other leaves.

It DID feel similar to the feel of switches I've played with whose tactile leaves I bent a bit too sharply, actually.
Haha, I wish I had a Xerox like that! No, I just have loose SKCM neon green (got a whole bunch of switches recently). No SKCM brown though xD .

Omron used a similar design with a tactile contact leaf, yes, but the dummy plate is part of the housing.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: venyv on Wed, 27 January 2016, 08:02:04
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Lepidus on Wed, 27 January 2016, 08:04:27
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.

Plate holes and pin positions on the PCB are different. :(
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 27 January 2016, 08:34:08
Yep alps will not fit in cherry board
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 27 January 2016, 08:40:43
There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 January 2016, 09:13:51
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.

There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.

Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.

In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.

Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.

I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.

I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 27 January 2016, 17:02:16
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.

There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.

Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.

In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.

Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.

I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.

I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switches
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 27 January 2016, 17:41:55
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.

There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.

Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.

In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.

Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.

I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.

I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switches
It's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:02:30
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.

There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.

Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.

In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.

Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.

I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.

I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switches
It's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.
Now thats cool! We need a GB for case and this AlpsMX pcb and plate and that would be awesome
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:02:09
[Just a side note: you guys don’t need to quote the full context of 4–5 messages that everyone can already see immediately above in order to make a short response. Or if you want you can use a 'more' tag if you really think a large amount of context is necessary. :-) For example:
More
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.

There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.

Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.

In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.

Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.

I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.

I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switches
It's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.
Now thats cool! We need a GB for case and this AlpsMX pcb and plate and that would be awesome
]

Alps/MX plates work great, but I’d recommend only using them with a PCB that you can firmly solder switches down to. For hand wiring, go for the standard square / rectangular switch holes.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:14:50
It's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.

Yep, JD's typical plate design for MX switches includes notches that also allow Alps switches as seen in LeandereN's universal 60% plates, of which I'm using two carbon fiber variants for my Duck Eagle builds w/ Alps. The only reason they work for me is because the Alps DCS modifiers from Badwrench fit perfectly with Cherry stabs, and because I stem-swapped a Gateron 7u PBT space bar. The Tai Hao Alps caps with the 6.25u space bars fit flawlessly though.

It's also in my experience that Alps keys require less stabilization than MX keys, imo. I've used every key except the space bar, of course, without stabilization (I don't think I've used the long right shift this way thought) on my Infinity and when I experimented on one of my Eagle builds with no negative result. A marginal loss in smoothness, but the keys worked fine and there was no seesawing or anything like that.

-

As to the plates that have this design. JDCarpe's designs have them typically AFAIK, the Infinity keyboard has this design, the landmark titanium plates that were sold a year and some time ago have them, and the plates on the LZ/LifeZone's custom boards seem to all have this style of notched plate design.

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:33:21
Also, the upcoming JD45 and revised JD40 PCBs will support both Alps and MX switches. :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 28 January 2016, 02:44:55
[Just a side note: you guys don’t need to quote the full context of 4–5 messages that everyone can already see immediately above in order to make a short response. Or if you want you can use a 'more' tag if you really think a large amount of context is necessary. :-) For example:
More
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.

There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.

Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.

In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.

Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.

I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.

I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switches
It's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.
Now thats cool! We need a GB for case and this AlpsMX pcb and plate and that would be awesome
]

Alps/MX plates work great, but I’d recommend only using them with a PCB that you can firmly solder switches down to. For hand wiring, go for the standard square / rectangular switch holes.
Thank you for the suggestion bro I will use the trick :thumb:

Also, the upcoming JD45 and revised JD40 PCBs will support both Alps and MX switches. :)
Yay, Can you make some TKL or 60% board bro?  :p

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 30 January 2016, 00:37:06
I've determined I don't really like Complicated White ALPS that much, they feel really clunky and it feels like typing is a hassle, I even prefer my Keycool with Kailh Reds, makes me miss my MX Blues, however ALPS have a delicious sound.

I've been told Matias switches are quite smoother and a bit lighter so I might give them a try in the future.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 30 January 2016, 01:14:48
I've determined I don't really like Complicated White ALPS that much, [...] I've been told Matias switches are quite smoother and a bit lighter
Clicky Matias switches and white Alps switches are pretty similar.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 08:20:15
I've determined I don't really like Complicated White ALPS that much, [...] I've been told Matias switches are quite smoother and a bit lighter
Clicky Matias switches and white Alps switches are pretty similar.
I agree. I didn't realize how similar they were until I built my Alps Party HHKB with Matias Clicks.

My first Alps experience was a new old stock Unitek white Alps board I bought here on GH. I didn't like them at first, either. I thought they were too wobbly and I didn't like the tactile feel. I thought the actuation force was too hard--not the spring weight, mind you, but the force required to push past the bump. So I set the board aside.

My next Alps board was the alps64 AEKII I built from Nubbinator's plate buy. I used orange Alps from an Apple IIGS keyboard. I fell in love right away. The action was so smooth on those switches that I didn't mind the Alps wobble at all. In fact, I came to appreciate it. Thanks to their wobbliness, Alps have a much more forgiving "angle of attack," so that if you strike a key off-center it's less likely to bind. This makes for, I think, a much more fluid stock typing experience than all but the most meticulously-lubed MX switches.

After a while with the orange Alps I decided to give that old white Alps board another try, and this go around I liked white Alps a lot more. They have an almost "crunchy" feel unlike any other switch I've tried. Not scratchy, but crunchy. The up-down motion is smooth but the push past the bump feels like it actually comprises multiple small bumps. This unique action, combined with the higher actuation point, makes clicky Alps pretty much the only switches where I don't have to bottom out as I type.

The other thing I've noticed about Alps is that they don't need super thick keycaps to feel good. Their smoothness makes up for the lower overall weight. We obviously don't have a GMK class of keycaps for Alps, but I don't really think we need one. The Tai Hao OEM keycaps feel just fine on the Alps boards I've tried, as do SP DCS.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:08:32
YMMV, White Alps are one of my least favorite types.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:25:52
Alps are all different, and dirt, wear, etc, can all effect them.

I am the original owner of an old Dell from the late-1990s with blacks and it still feels fine.

Whites seem stiff to me, but "Mr Northgate" Bob Tibbetts thinks that white and blue are pretty much the same and that lust for blue is pure hype ....
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:31:37
I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:43:29
I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now

I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.

Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:51:02
Alps are all different, and dirt, wear, etc, can all effect them.

I am the original owner of an old Dell from the late-1990s with blacks and it still feels fine.

Whites seem stiff to me, but "Mr Northgate" Bob Tibbetts thinks that white and blue are pretty much the same and that lust for blue is pure hype ....
I've never heard of anyone equating whites and blues. I mean, other than the fact that they both click. But I will say I have noticed a difference among whites on different boards, so maybe some of them are closer to blues than others.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:55:16
I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now

I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.

Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR
Sure thing bro!
Here is the mod : http://imgur.com/a/pgWh2/embed
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:57:41
I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now

I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.

Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR

Alps modding is a joy! No need to feel shy about it. Pop those puppies open! I've not click modded my oranges, but I do hear that they're quite good. :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:02:39
I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now

I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.

Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR

Alps modding is a joy! No need to feel shy about it. Pop those puppies open! I've not click modded my oranges, but I do hear that they're quite good. :D
Great, now I've got to decide whether I want to do this on my next orange Alps build. Maybe I'll do one or two and try to compare them to my blues before committing to the whole batch.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:07:43
I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now

I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.

Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR

Alps modding is a joy! No need to feel shy about it. Pop those puppies open! I've not click modded my oranges, but I do hear that they're quite good. :D
They are really good!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 30 January 2016, 11:23:31
In fact I prefer my NeXT with Blacks as opposed to several boards with Whites.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Sat, 30 January 2016, 12:12:26
In fact I prefer my NeXT with Blacks as opposed to several boards with Whites.
Late or early black Alps? The difference is night and day, I've found.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 12:12:42
In fact I prefer my NeXT with Blacks as opposed to several boards with Whites.

Avatar doesn't check out.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Sat, 30 January 2016, 12:31:42
In fact I prefer my NeXT with Blacks as opposed to several boards with Whites.

Avatar doesn't check out.
That's not an Alps switch though ;) .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: n__dles on Sat, 30 January 2016, 18:44:22
Avatar doesn't check out.
Yours doesn't either. (http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/SomsSUBDirectory/offenderDetails.jsp?offenderid=20653)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 18:49:22
Avatar doesn't check out.
Yours doesn't either. (http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/SomsSUBDirectory/offenderDetails.jsp?offenderid=20653)
Wow. I had no idea.

Now I'm thinking about changing my avatar. Thanks a lot...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Sat, 30 January 2016, 23:37:46
Avatar doesn't check out.
Yours doesn't either. (http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/SomsSUBDirectory/offenderDetails.jsp?offenderid=20653)
Wow. I had no idea.

Now I'm thinking about changing my avatar. Thanks a lot...
Powerglove, not even once.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 16:15:00
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?

I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs.  https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)

Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent.

I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place.

Are these worth modifying each individual leaf?  Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels? or was the wierdness just from bad manufacturing?

 
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 16:41:58
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?

I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs.  https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)

Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent.

I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place.

Are these worth modifying each individual leaf?  Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels? or was the wierdness just from bad manufacturing?

The board I got my Hebrew caps for my FAME (also a Tai Hao board but so much better built) was a Tai Hao APC TH-5539 and was flimsy as all hell with a plastic plate and a deceptive black back that looked metallic to me, in pictures, but turned out to just be plastic. The switches don't seem bad, but I just am quite bleh about that board because of its quality.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 16:50:18
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?

I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs.  https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)

Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent.

I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place.

Are these worth modifying each individual leaf?  Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels? or was the wierdness just from bad manufacturing?

The board I got my Hebrew caps for my FAME (also a Tai Hao board but so much better built) was a Tai Hao APC TH-5539 and was flimsy as all hell with a plastic plate and a deceptive black back that looked metallic to me, in pictures, but turned out to just be plastic. The switches don't seem bad, but I just am quite bleh about that board because of its quality.


That's the thing. the board they came from was complete trash.  the plastic plate, the crap case, the key caps, the PCB, the stabilizers were all garbage.

But looking at the switches, other than not being the smoothest or perfectly built, the switches don't seem that bad once I fix them.
I just hope its not in vain and they stay this way after some use
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 31 January 2016, 17:10:29
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps? [...] Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent. ¶ I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place. ¶ Are these worth modifying each individual leaf? Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels?

What do you mean by “worth”? If you like them, go for it! They shouldn’t change rapidly. On the other hand, I find these switches are often not the most reliable electrically. The contact mechanism is simple, and the cheaper of these types of switches can corrode and your signal will get bouncy.

If you overall like the general switch concept, but you want something more consistent, a bit more solid feeling, and more reliable, you could get a cheap early white Alps board from ~1990–1994 (often can find them in good condition for ~$30 shipped on eBay, or cheaper if you visit an e-cycler or similar).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 17:13:17
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?

I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs.  https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)

Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent.

I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place.

Are these worth modifying each individual leaf?  Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels? or was the wierdness just from bad manufacturing?

The board I got my Hebrew caps for my FAME (also a Tai Hao board but so much better built) was a Tai Hao APC TH-5539 and was flimsy as all hell with a plastic plate and a deceptive black back that looked metallic to me, in pictures, but turned out to just be plastic. The switches don't seem bad, but I just am quite bleh about that board because of its quality.


That's the thing. the board they came from was complete trash.  the plastic plate, the crap case, the key caps, the PCB, the stabilizers were all garbage.

But looking at the switches, other than not being the smoothest or perfectly built, the switches don't seem that bad once I fix them.
I just hope its not in vain and they stay this way after some use

Man, all the power to you if you end up making them feel awesome and they end up more consistent. I love seeing appreciation toward the less appreciated switches.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 17:15:47
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps? [...] Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent. ¶ I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place. ¶ Are these worth modifying each individual leaf? Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels?

What do you mean by “worth”? If you like them, go for it! They shouldn’t change rapidly. On the other hand, I find these switches are often not the most reliable electrically. The contact mechanism is simple, and the cheaper of these types of switches can corrode and your signal will get bouncy.

If you overall like the general idea, but you want something more consistent, a bit more solid feeling, and more reliable, you could get a cheap early white Alps board (often can find them in good condition for ~$30 shipped on eBay, or cheaper if you visit an e-cycler or similar).

By worth it, I meant, would my effort be wasted on a rapidly degrading shoddy switch mechanism.
I feel a little silly for not just buying known quality switches, but I don't make a lot of money and its not going to be cheap to get another case, plate, pcb, and keycaps.

On the other hand, if I do buy all the other components and end up with a ghosting mess of a keyboard, I will be upset at myself for using those bad switches in the first place.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: frogthejam19 on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:13:30
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231821687788?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

someone must have really wanted orange alps really badly lol.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:16:36
Whoa, what? I was watching that one and expecting it to go for like $50–70. It is a really nice keyboard, but two bidders throwing $500 at it seems quite extreme.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: frogthejam19 on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:23:21
Whoa, what? I was watching that one and expecting it to go for like $50–70. It is a really nice keyboard, but two bidders throwing $500 at it seems quite extreme.

I guess the person really wanted orange alps
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:33:06
expecting it to go for like $50–70. It is a really nice keyboard, but two bidders throwing $500 at it seems quite extreme.

I would have said that $50-$70 was the going rate for a nice not-too-yellowed one with low serial number and sure orange. And perhaps twice that for new-in-box.

If somebody had said that it had cracked $200 I would have been very surprised.

Anybody who wants my immaculate M0115 (with original cable) for $500 is quite welcome to send me a PM. I will ship it for free.

Co-incidentally, this morning I decided to swim in Alps waters for a while and pulled down my black Dell AT101W with orange Alps and PBT caps (with a weight bar from an early one cobbled in, along with case padding). This is a very nice keyboard and true-ANSI to boot.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:42:39
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?

I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs.  https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)
I've tried Type OA2, Type T4, Type T5, and Xiang Min KSB-C, as well as Matiases (only the first three in a board). From my experience, the clones with the copper leaves are considerably inferior to those that use the full-size steel leaves; Type OA2s in particular do relatively well and aren't bad switches. The large contacts seem to feel better than simplified-style ones, too (which have a second tactile point).

I also recently got some of the red-and-black, mysterious LARB01 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/USw_LARB01) switches. They have a bizarre feel where any and all resistance seem to completely vanish after the tactile bump, almost as if there isn't a coil spring in the board at all. Although I don't think these have been found in any keyboard at all, I'd very much like to try these out properly sometime.

Do your switches have the copper leaf or the steel type?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:11:09
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231821687788?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

someone must have really wanted orange alps really badly lol.

Oh my goodness.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:14:25
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?

I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs.  https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)
I've tried Type OA2, Type T4, Type T5, and Xiang Min KSB-C, as well as Matiases (only the first three in a board). From my experience, the clones with the copper leaves are considerably inferior to those that use the full-size steel leaves; Type OA2s in particular do relatively well and aren't bad switches. The large contacts seem to feel better than simplified-style ones, too (which have a second tactile point).

I also recently got some of the red-and-black, mysterious LARB01 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/USw_LARB01) switches. They have a bizarre feel where any and all resistance seem to completely vanish after the tactile bump, almost as if there isn't a coil spring in the board at all. Although I don't think these have been found in any keyboard at all, I'd very much like to try these out properly sometime.

Do your switches have the copper leaf or the steel type?
It uses 2 individual contact plates and 1 copper leaf
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:14:34
I would have said that $50-$70 was the going rate for a nice not-too-yellowed one with low serial number and sure orange. And perhaps twice that for new-in-box.
This is “I doubt it was ever used”, loose in “not the original” box, with no cord. If it was really NIB I also wouldn’t be surprised at $150.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: venyv on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:15:41
How well do the alps to mx adapter work? Do they make the key stick up any higher or wobbly?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:19:41
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231821687788?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

someone must have really wanted orange alps really badly lol.

Oh my goodness.

Please let this be shenanigans, because if it's not, it's just utter insanity.

What is going on in the keyboard world lately. Let me list my Focus FK-555 for $600 $1000 since it's in immaculate condition and is seldom seen.

-

No, I could never sell any of my keyboards.

How well do the alps to mx adapter work? Do they make the key stick up any higher or wobbly?

They will always cause the key cap to sit higher up due to the nature of Alps sliders vs MX caps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:23:35
Since these switches sort of suck in the long run, maybe I can grab a plate, teensy, and some key caps, if any of them pop up cheap.
Make this a handwiring project. you know for the fun of it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:37:53
This reminds me of that AT101W that went for, what, >$130 or something? xD
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:57:16
I messaged the seller asking if the winner has paid yet and got this response:
(http://i.imgur.com/HSLZs7f.jpg)

Very curious to see if the winner pays.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:58:33
I messaged the seller asking if the winner has paid yet and got this response:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HSLZs7f.jpg)


Very curious to see if the winner pays.

The Alps game is getting Cherry cray cray.

It's like the bidders are piranhas lost in a feeding frenzy.

This reminds me of that AT101W that went for, what, >$130 or something? xD

Not to get too off topic, but on the subject of Alps appreciation, did you manage to nab that black FK-2001, Chyros? D:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:59:21
I messaged the seller asking if the winner has paid yet and got this response:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HSLZs7f.jpg)


Very curious to see if the winner pays.

That keyboard is almost more than my computer.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Sun, 31 January 2016, 20:15:52
Not to get too off topic, but on the subject of Alps appreciation, did you manage to nab that black FK-2001, Chyros? D:
Urgh, no, unfortunately D: . It didn't even go for that much in the end, ironically enough. Shame, probably the best-looking keyboard I've ever seen :( .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 31 January 2016, 21:07:38
I was thinking about buying an AEK the other day I'd found for $30... $500? Wtf?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 31 January 2016, 21:10:16
LOL $510? I don't even pay $40 for one hahaha
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Sun, 31 January 2016, 21:24:34
LOL $510? I don't even pay $40 for one hahaha
I think I bought two for $40 in a GB on here a while back? No more than $50 IIRC.

Can someone contact the buyer and let them know I have a red OG Cherry ESC key I'd like to sell them...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 21:43:32
LOL $510? I don't even pay $40 for one hahaha
I think I bought two for $40 in a GB on here a while back? No more than $50 IIRC.

Can someone contact the buyer and let them know I have a red OG Cherry ESC key I'd like to sell them...
You might need to open an offshore account
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 01 February 2016, 02:29:31
I like orange alps but I hate blue alps am I normal?  :))
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Mon, 01 February 2016, 05:48:22
I like orange alps but I hate blue alps am I normal?  :))
No :P .

But maybe you like lighter switches ;) .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 01 February 2016, 05:59:52
I like orange alps but I hate blue alps am I normal?  :))
No :P .

But maybe you like lighter switches ;) .
Can you tell me what a good converter for this chicony 5161?
it have xt/at cable

I don't know man but the more I type on it it feels better  :eek:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Mon, 01 February 2016, 07:13:38
I like orange alps but I hate blue alps am I normal?  :))
No :P .

But maybe you like lighter switches ;) .
Can you tell me what a good converter for this chicony 5161?
it have xt/at cable

I don't know man but the more I type on it it feels better  :eek:
If you have a PS/2 port a cheap, simple AT-to-PS/2 adapter should work fine, if not you might want to invest in a proper converter, especially if you plan on getting more old boards. Orihalcon's are not cheap, but they're very good.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 01 February 2016, 07:15:35
That's my setup, just like chyros said. AT -> PS2 adapter. Then PS2 -> USB adapter.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 February 2016, 07:18:54
you might want to invest in a proper converter, especially if you plan on getting more old boards.

Or get seriously serious and build yourself one of these:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58941.msg1348717#msg1348717

(and while you are in there, hook up the 5th wire from the AT socket to PD7 on the Teensy for the "reset" connection for DC-2014s and the like)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Mon, 01 February 2016, 08:11:46
you might want to invest in a proper converter, especially if you plan on getting more old boards.

Or get seriously serious and build yourself one of these:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58941.msg1348717#msg1348717

(and while you are in there, hook up the 5th wire from the AT socket to PD7 on the Teensy for the "reset" connection for DC-2014s and the like)
This is still on my to-do list. One day...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 09:30:43
I like orange alps but I hate blue alps am I normal?  :))


Give your self some time, man! They are the kinds of switches that grow on ya!

If you have a PS/2 port a cheap, simple AT-to-PS/2 adapter should work fine, if not you might want to invest in a proper converter, especially if you plan on getting more old boards. Orihalcon's are not cheap, but they're very good.

Orihalcon's are amazing. I bought one for the expressed purpose of using NKRO with the DC-3014.

I'm not sure if all the steps in the conversion process or what create some sort of delay or if it's just in the polling rate of these vintage keyboards, but none of my vintage keyboards seem as snappily responsive as my modern keyboards. Press a key and there's a tiny fraction of a second delay (noticeable in rhythm games).On my Hammer Alps board for instance, it's more perceivable as instantaneous. :B

I do go straight to USB as I use a DTR laptop so I have no PS/2. :P
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 01 February 2016, 10:50:10
I spent a bunch of time this weekend making a number of different franken-alps switches by mixing in parts from newer matias switches (right now only quiet clicks, but I'm tempted to get some clicky switches and mess with those too).

Using the terminology that Platy originated I'm calling the process of mixing in matias qc components as "smoking" (due to the gray color of the slider).

I used Orange, Salmon and Damped Cream switches in two different configurations:
Additionally I make what I'll refer to as the "complicated quiet click" which swaps the entire guts of a quiet click into a damped cream saving only the complicated switchplate.

Overall I was actually really impressed with the results, with my three favorites being: Partially Smoked Orange, Fully Smoked Salmon, and the Complicated Quiet Click. 

Partially Smoked Orange - The slightly lighter spring along with the older model switchplate in the oranges made for a very nice compliment to the newer and crisper tactile leaf from the quiet click.

Fully Smoked Salmon - This was a super crisp and slightly aggressive switch. The combination of later model complicated switchplate, the quiet click's tactile leaf and the undamped slider makes for a super crisp and crunchy feel. I think in the long term it would actually be easier (and cheaper) to use SKCM Whites as the donor. I'll have to look into it.

Complicated Quiet Click - This and the fully smoked cream were pretty similar, but I prefer the dampeners on the quiet clicks (could be age related). The end result is a slightly less wobbly (the switchplate on a qc has only one touch point on the slider) and more consistent feeling quiet click.

I'm going to build my first Alps Party board with Complicated Quiet Clicks and see how I like it vs. my v60 with quiet clicks.

Action pic!

(http://i.imgur.com/EAAaViw.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:36:49
Oooo, I like where this is going jbondeson
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mseaworthy on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:38:02
Very cool hybridization. Charles Darwin would be proud.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:44:18
I spent a bunch of time this weekend making a number of different franken-alps switches by mixing in parts from newer matias switches (right now only quiet clicks, but I'm tempted to get some clicky switches and mess with those too).

Using the terminology that Platy originated I'm calling the process of mixing in matias qc components as "smoking" (due to the gray color of the slider).

I used Orange, Salmon and Damped Cream switches in two different configurations:
  • Partial Smoke - Replace the tactile leaf with a quiet click tactile leaf.
  • Full Smoke - Replace the tactile leaf and spring with the quiet click tactile leaf and spring
Additionally I make what I'll refer to as the "complicated quiet click" which swaps the entire guts of a quiet click into a damped cream saving only the complicated switchplate.

Overall I was actually really impressed with the results, with my three favorites being: Partially Smoked Orange, Fully Smoked Salmon, and the Complicated Quiet Click. 

Partially Smoked Orange - The slightly lighter spring along with the older model switchplate in the oranges made for a very nice compliment to the newer and crisper tactile leaf from the quiet click.

Fully Smoked Salmon - This was a super crisp and slightly aggressive switch. The combination of later model complicated switchplate, the quiet click's tactile leaf and the undamped slider makes for a super crisp and crunchy feel. I think in the long term it would actually be easier (and cheaper) to use SKCM Whites as the donor. I'll have to look into it.

Complicated Quiet Click - This and the fully smoked cream were pretty similar, but I prefer the dampeners on the quiet clicks (could be age related). The end result is a slightly less wobbly (the switchplate on a qc has only one touch point on the slider) and more consistent feeling quiet click.

I'm going to build my first Alps Party board with Complicated Quiet Clicks and see how I like it vs. my v60 with quiet clicks.

Action pic!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/EAAaViw.jpg)


I love your experimentation here. I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends. I should consider whittling down some chopsticks or something.

Fully smoked salmon sounds both delicious and pretty awesome as do the complicated quiet clicks.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:58:05
I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends.
Flatten the ends of some cocktail sticks and you don't need to use the toothpicks (and you don't bend them out as far as you do with normal cocktail sticks - don't worry too much about that though, Alps can definitely take it ;) ). You can just stick them in and pull them out quickly again, takes the top housing with it. You can open switches in half a second like that.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 01 February 2016, 12:08:33

I love your experimentation here. I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends. I should consider whittling down some chopsticks or something.

Fully smoked salmon sounds both delicious and pretty awesome as do the complicated quiet clicks.

I open them all up by hand with my fingernails. After a few hundred it does hurt a little :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Mon, 01 February 2016, 12:26:39
Awesome mods, jbondeson. Thanks for sharing the info. I agree it would be cheaper to use whites instead of salmon, but "smoked whites" doesn't sound as cool.

For switch opening, it would be cool to have some kind of flat pliers that could simultaneously wedge open the clips and grip on the upper housing to aid in removal. Maybe something made out of a flat piece of spring steel.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Mon, 01 February 2016, 12:39:32

I love your experimentation here. I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends. I should consider whittling down some chopsticks or something.

Fully smoked salmon sounds both delicious and pretty awesome as do the complicated quiet clicks.

I open them all up by hand with my fingernails. After a few hundred it does hurt a little :D

Just use tweezers lol
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 12:45:46
Awesome mods, jbondeson. Thanks for sharing the info. I agree it would be cheaper to use whites instead of salmon, but "smoked whites" doesn't sound as cool.

For switch opening, it would be cool to have some kind of flat pliers that could simultaneously wedge open the clips and grip on the upper housing to aid in removal. Maybe something made out of a flat piece of spring steel.

Toasted marshmallows!


I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends.
Flatten the ends of some cocktail sticks and you don't need to use the toothpicks (and you don't bend them out as far as you do with normal cocktail sticks - don't worry too much about that though, Alps can definitely take it ;) ). You can just stick them in and pull them out quickly again, takes the top housing with it. You can open switches in half a second like that.

Yes, I recall seeing this mentioned in another thread, haha. Yeah, I'll have to find an equivalent in using shaved down chopsticks or just go find some cocktail sticks. I've got quite a few chopsticks.

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: frogthejam19 on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:27:49
I want a blue alps board that I can harvest for the switches.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:34:26
I want a blue alps board that I can harvest for the switches.

Me too
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:49:10
I want an alps plate, but cant post to the classifieds, lol.
Mechmarket is a little dry for alps plates.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:55:27
One interesting note (which i would show if I actually had a macro lens :rolleyes:) is that you cannot put a leaf from a complicated switch into a matias housing as the legs are ever so slightly longer on a complicated leaf.

Additionally, the matias switches has a nasty (and very thick) grease applied unevenly through the switches. So if you're going to do any of these frankenalps I'd suggest a very thorough cleaning of both switches and re-lubricating with a more alps-friendly lubricant.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 14:10:32
I want a blue alps board that I can harvest for the switches.

Me too

You MONSTERS!

 >:D >:D >:D

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:00:07
I want a blue alps board that I can harvest for the switches.

Me too

You MONSTERS!

 >:D >:D >:D
What have these poor boards ever done to these people? D:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:04:27
What have these poor boards ever done to these people?

They have frustrated us by attempting to force us to use impossibly annoying layouts while monopolizing precious switches.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:05:22
I just want to be in the position of having more Blue SKCM Alps to decide whether or not I cannibalize them ;)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:13:18
decide whether or not I cannibalize them

I am starting to wonder whether click-modded orange might be as good or better, based on numerous comments.

After taking them apart, where they could be thoroughly examined for top specimens, then cleaned and lubed, I could easily see them being superior to raw blues in a questionable state.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:20:24
decide whether or not I cannibalize them

I am starting to wonder whether click-modded orange might be as good or better, based on numerous comments.

After taking them apart, where they could be thoroughly examined for top specimens, then cleaned and lubed, I could easily see them being superior to raw blues in a questionable state.

Subjectivity is something that should be taken into consideration. Better is just a matter of perception. This is how hype trains get started.

Also take into account that the likelyhood for people to think positively of click modded oranges is high considering the high prices and scarcity of blues compared to orange Alps.

So it's easy to be biased and say "yep, these are much better! Screw trying to find blue Alps!'

That said, orange alps are quite good. :P
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:58:41
I love orange Alps. I click modded a couple loose ones during my lunch hour today and, at least loose, they feel pretty similar to blues. It's not really a loud click, just enough to reinforce the tactile bump. I'm convinced enough that I'm probably going to build my Alps Party ANSI board with click-modded oranges.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 01 February 2016, 17:05:10
I love orange Alps. I click modded a couple loose ones during my lunch hour today and, at least loose, they feel pretty similar to blues. It's not really a loud click, just enough to reinforce the tactile bump. I'm convinced enough that I'm probably going to build my Alps Party ANSI board with click-modded oranges.

Completely agree.  Blue Alps make a harsher click while click modded Orange Alps have a noticeable but less severe click.  They're almost like a smoother, more tactile, and more consistent MX white.

I've not been impressed with White Alps.  Then again, I don't like clicky switches.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 01 February 2016, 18:00:30
Yep I'm gonna harvest this board and make another board
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 01 February 2016, 19:24:36
One interesting note (which i would show if I actually had a macro lens :rolleyes:) is that you cannot put a leaf from a complicated switch into a matias housing as the legs are ever so slightly longer on a complicated leaf.
Why would you want to do that? The click/tactile leaves on Matias switches are great. The piece of complicated Alps switches which is unquestionably better than Matias switches is the switchplate, which is much expensive to produce but much more reliable electrically.

[Note, you can swap Matias click/tactile leaves into old Alps switches if you want.]
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 01 February 2016, 19:32:03

One interesting note (which i would show if I actually had a macro lens :rolleyes:) is that you cannot put a leaf from a complicated switch into a matias housing as the legs are ever so slightly longer on a complicated leaf.
Why would you want to do that? The click/tactile leaves on Matias switches are great.

There was no desire on my part other than at the time having a safe place to have the complicated alp leaf. I just thought it was an interesting difference that I wasn't suspecting.

The piece of complicated Alps switches which is unquestionably better than Matias switches is the switch plate, which is much expensive to produce but much more reliable electrically.

[Note, you can swap Matias click/tactile leaves into old Alps switches if you want.]

Scroll up a few more to my post before that one ;)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 12:51:58
I'm thoroughly convinced that Blues use some kind of black magic. Swapping the blue slider into a Matias Click feels the same as the original slider, but swapping the Matias into Blue housing does not feel the same. Yet the sliders look identical.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:14:18
I'm thoroughly convinced that Blues use some kind of black magic. Swapping the blue slider into a Matias Click feels the same as the original slider, but swapping the Matias into Blue housing does not feel the same. Yet the sliders look identical.

Yeah, pretty much confirmed that blue Alps are the work of voodoo priests working at Alps in the mid 80s.

Just don't make em like that anymore!

-

On that note, see if orange or any other Alps-made sliders retain the feel of blue Alps if swapped in. If so, then it's likely just the plastic being different between Matias and Alps, with Alps likely just being higher quality.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:40:25
I'm thoroughly convinced that Blues use some kind of black magic. Swapping the blue slider into a Matias Click feels the same as the original slider, but swapping the Matias into Blue housing does not feel the same. Yet the sliders look identical.

Yeah, pretty much confirmed that blue Alps are the work of voodoo priests working at Alps in the mid 80s.

Just don't make em like that anymore!

-

On that note, see if orange or any other Alps-made sliders retain the feel of blue Alps if swapped in. If so, then it's likely just the plastic being different between Matias and Alps, with Alps likely just being higher quality.
First-generation Alps switches like Blues and Oranges appear to use a different plastic from all others afterwards. Originally they came lubed but of course that's quite expensive so it appears they moved to a different, low-friction plastic (POM?) for the second generation. As such, it would make sense that clicky Oranges feel much like Blues (except a little lighter) :) .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:49:08
All the Alps sliders seem like POM to me, though I’m not an expert on plastics. I don’t think there’s any substantial difference in the material or slider quality between blue/salmon/white/orange/brown/green/yellow/etc. sliders. There are subtly different slider shapes between different switch types though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:53:48
All the Alps sliders seem like POM to me, though I’m not an expert on plastics. I don’t think there’s any substantial difference in the material or slider quality between blue/salmon/white/orange/brown/green/yellow/etc. sliders. There are subtly different slider shapes between different switch types though.
That could be the case too, in that case they simply didn't bother lubing anymore at some point xD . Wish I had a TGA/DSC xD .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:56:41
All the Alps sliders seem like POM to me, though I’m not an expert on plastics. I don’t think there’s any substantial difference in the material or slider quality between blue/salmon/white/orange/brown/green/yellow/etc. sliders. There are subtly different slider shapes between different switch types though.
That could be the case too, in that case they simply didn't bother lubing anymore at some point xD . Wish I had a TGA/DSC xD .

Yeah, that dry film lube surely is interesting! My measurements for orange Alps were pretty much around 60g of force for actuation, where blues needed 65g. I've always thought of oranges as blues without the click, which makes them a bit more boring in my eyes. Click-modded ones would be fun for sure. :3

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 02 February 2016, 17:33:22
I'm thoroughly convinced that Blues use some kind of black magic. Swapping the blue slider into a Matias Click feels the same as the original slider, but swapping the Matias into Blue housing does not feel the same. Yet the sliders look identical.
Do they use some watermelon and kfc to it?  :p
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Eugene45 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 02:37:47
Do we use dry lube ? Or have someone a special mix ?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 February 2016, 07:17:24
Do we use dry lube ? Or have someone a special mix ?

I would like to hear the answer to this, also. I think that I may have to crack open and click mod my baggie of oranges for my next Alps project.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 03 February 2016, 09:51:13
Do we use dry lube ? Or have someone a special mix ?

I would like to hear the answer to this, also. I think that I may have to crack open and click mod my baggie of oranges for my next Alps project.
Well I can tell you first hand that the standard Krytox wet lube we're all used to for MX switches, does not feel very nice on click-modded oranges. It just makes it feel muffled. So it's gonna have to be some kind of dry lube, I just don't know enough about that stuff to weigh in.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 03 February 2016, 09:59:46
I'm thoroughly convinced that Blues use some kind of black magic. Swapping the blue slider into a Matias Click feels the same as the original slider, but swapping the Matias into Blue housing does not feel the same. Yet the sliders look identical.

Yeah, pretty much confirmed that blue Alps are the work of voodoo priests working at Alps in the mid 80s.

Just don't make em like that anymore!

Definitely magic. And my fingers are happy for said voodoo. I lub SKCM Blues  :-X

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:52:34
Do we use dry lube ? Or have someone a special mix ?

Molybdenum disulfide powder is pretty good. I think a dry-film lube would work well too.

I agree with the notion that Alps switches do not need lubing unless they are scratchy to begin with. Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

That ol' Molly "B" Denim, though.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: frogthejam19 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:54:09
seems like everyone is now hoarding their blue alps boards.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:02:47
seems like everyone is now hoarding their blue alps boards.

People have always hoarded them, but now that they are ultra-hyped you have people buying them at ridiculous prices.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:09:09
seems like everyone is now hoarding their blue alps boards.

People have always hoarded them, but now that they are ultra-hyped you have people buying them at ridiculous prices.

Sad thing is that they aren't even worth the premium they're sold for.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 14:05:11
Sad thing is that they aren't even worth the premium they're sold for.

I spent too much on mine at $120, but mine also came with a whole computer! I ended up selling the computer for about $60 though.  :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: frogthejam19 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:02:34
Sad thing is that they aren't even worth the premium they're sold for.

I spent too much on mine at $120, but mine also came with a whole computer! I ended up selling the computer for about $60 though.  :)

are you the person who bought the leading edge computer ?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:30:39
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:34:48
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

I started hunting Alps because I was curious and there wasn't much popularity with them. It felt like I was digging through new territory. Plus I wanted to get into vintage boards and $2-30 a board was a great price point for me. I fell in love with how they feel too.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:35:50
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:52:11
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.

Mmm interesting.. should try it once. But my wallet forbids me for now... this hobby is expensive!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:54:56
I like Alps because I think overall they all feel nicer than most other mechanical switches. The price point is a definite plus as you can get the more common Alps boards like an AEK II for around $30. Alps also seem to be smoother overall, even the Blue SKCM I'm typing on now seem much better than any of Cherry's clicky switches. Plus I think I kind of like Alps being a little less common than Cherry, as the selection is better for those of us who are always looking for Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:55:42
I like Alps because I think overall they all feel nicer than most other mechanical switches. The price point is a definite plus as you can get the more common Alps boards like an AEK II for around $30. Alps also seem to be smoother overall, even the Blue SKCM I'm typing on now seem much better than any of Cherry's clicky switches. Plus I think I kind of like Alps being a little less common than Cherry, as the selection is better for those of us who are always looking for Alps.

Smoother even than topre?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:00:45
should try it once. But my wallet forbids me

If you are comfortable with a soldering iron and transplanting a set of switches from one keyboard to another, the easiest and cheapest way to get a really good, straight-ANSI keyboard is to buy a Dell AT101(W) (they even come in black if that turns you on) and an Apple Extended Keyboard (AEK2 is even cheaper and more common) and transplant the switches from the Apple into the Dell. The Apple caps are also far superior but they don't have all the correct pieces to make a complete set.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:18:04

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.

1: I agree. Even in similarly weighted switches between the two switch families, the feel is always quite distinct. The reduced travel is another huge factor here, even if it's only a .5 mm difference. It's that extra bit of travel that the stem well in a Cherry MX switch provides versus what we have with Alps. I think this is what makes Alps SKCL Greens so unique when tried side by side with incredibly smooth vintage MX blacks. SKCL browns feel more like blacks, but that lack of that extra bit of travel still makes them hard to really compare.

2: I've heard mixed opinions here. Some say that MX are far more forgiving to off-center presses while Alps bind like crazy. I'm unsure. I've had some boards that have had switches that wouldn't play nice with off-center presses, and others like my Hammer that are just fine regardless of where they are pressed. If I had to give my opinion though, I agree with you. They aren't that sensitive to binding, and I also feel that they are not as wobbly as MX in terms of stem wobble.

Ironic, because my Hammer Alps build uses an MXAlps plate and the switches are incredibly solid, but in some native Alps boards, ie with straight up Alps plates, I've had switches "rock". With how they're mounted, they can sometimes have the tendency to rock back, but this isn't much of an issue.

3: So true. Alps are super smooth switches and their hefty design with that monster of a slider and the dry film lube makes them really robust and solid switches compared to the dainty Cherry MX.

4: I need to try these. This is the key to more Alps love though. If only Matias could get a foothold, but it'd take a revolution in the keyboard scene and consumer market for that to happen.

5: Yep, and I don't think the hype trains we're seeing are going to persist. That is, I think prices will equalize again in time. The fact Alps is more obscure than Cherry and is cheaper was a huge incentive to me.

6: Totally this. I love discovering new things about the Alps world every day! :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:55:57
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
The sound, you're forgetting the sound! :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:39:08
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:41:29
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
The sound, you're forgetting the sound! :D

Or for me, the lack of sound while still maintaining a nice crisp tactile feel (matias quiet click)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:05:52
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:11:43
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
I love this description, and the historical background you provided. I never paid attention to the force curve that closely, but Alps really do have a totally different feel after the click. Thanks for sharing this.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: flabbergast on Thu, 04 February 2016, 02:04:45
Nice explanation! I was wondering about this. I've recently tried all three types of Matias switches and I find all three much better than the respective categories of Cherry MX. (The linear Cherries are possible to get to an acceptable state by tuning the springs and lubing, but Matias linears are already smooth from the factory.)

Now I'm trying the some ALPS and they are indeed very nice and smooth (so far have tried white clicky, and while stiffer than matias clicks, the sound and feel is indeed superior).

Comparison to Topre? Topre only exists in the "quiet click = tactile" category, and I do like them better than the respective switches in the matias world (I've yet to try a complicated tactile ALPS).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 February 2016, 06:21:48
Nice explanation! I was wondering about this. I've recently tried all three types of Matias switches and I find all three much better than the respective categories of Cherry MX. (The linear Cherries are possible to get to an acceptable state by tuning the springs and lubing, but Matias linears are already smooth from the factory.)

Now I'm trying the some ALPS and they are indeed very nice and smooth (so far have tried white clicky, and while stiffer than matias clicks, the sound and feel is indeed superior).

Comparison to Topre? Topre only exists in the "quiet click = tactile" category, and I do like them better than the respective switches in the matias world (I've yet to try a complicated tactile ALPS).
This guys know what his talking about  :thumb:

The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
I have tried blue alps and orange alps and I think the closest one with topre is the orange alps but its a little bit different the bump of topre feels like a rounded bump as opposed to the orange alps which feels like a plastic hitting. I personally like topre better but Orange alps is really a good switch  :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:01:01
should try it once. But my wallet forbids me

If you are comfortable with a soldering iron and transplanting a set of switches from one keyboard to another, the easiest and cheapest way to get a really good, straight-ANSI keyboard is to buy a Dell AT101(W) (they even come in black if that turns you on) and an Apple Extended Keyboard (AEK2 is even cheaper and more common) and transplant the switches from the Apple into the Dell. The Apple caps are also far superior but they don't have all the correct pieces to make a complete set.

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB? I guess I'll try to buy an AEK/2 first to see whether I like it. I already have the kb from the original macintosh (well, the 512K version; have the mac itself as well). So I guess I will end up with a small collection of them in the end...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:04:00
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.

Problem for me is, I live in the EU (Netherlands), so I have to pay a lot more to get it into my country (shipping, after-tax, and sometimes import tax). My ~300 USD 87UB has an extra tax of around 60 USD once it passes the border. That's 20% "extra"!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:05:54
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.

Sounds a bit like how Topre works? Up until the actuation point, relatively large amount of force is required. But after the rubber collapses, you almost instantly bottom out?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:08:27
Nice explanation! I was wondering about this. I've recently tried all three types of Matias switches and I find all three much better than the respective categories of Cherry MX. (The linear Cherries are possible to get to an acceptable state by tuning the springs and lubing, but Matias linears are already smooth from the factory.)

Now I'm trying the some ALPS and they are indeed very nice and smooth (so far have tried white clicky, and while stiffer than matias clicks, the sound and feel is indeed superior).

Comparison to Topre? Topre only exists in the "quiet click = tactile" category, and I do like them better than the respective switches in the matias world (I've yet to try a complicated tactile ALPS).

Damn it really got me curious... back in the day (15-20 years ago), I had a Mac Performa with a AEK/AEK2 and a BS. And I can remember that the AEK was SO SICK. It was quiet, comfortable, precise. It felt like they perfected typing. Whereas my BS keyboard (I think it was a Tulip or C64 board, not sure) was.. well.. the sound was nice, but nowhere near the feel of the AEK in my opinion.

But then I did the Mac away with the KB not knowing what I had in my hands :(
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:15:29
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.

Sounds a bit like how Topre works? Up until the actuation point, relatively large amount of force is required. But after the rubber collapses, you almost instantly bottom out?
Thats right bro! a really good switches or board
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:29:47

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:31:34

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw

Thanks! I'm wondering what kind of switch NEXT-keyboards use. Since Jobs moved from Apple to NEXT and took most of the top engineers with him, NEXT-boards may be Alps as well.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:16:46
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange)

This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter.

Speaking as someone who has owned an AEK with orange Alps and seen one with a LOWER serial number containing salmon Alps.

The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.

I have tried blue alps and orange alps and I think the closest one with topre is the orange alps but its a little bit different the bump of topre feels like a rounded bump as opposed to the orange alps which feels like a plastic hitting. I personally like topre better but Orange alps is really a good switch  :thumb:

Brown tactile Alps has more of a rounded tactility, but you're right. Despite the roundedness, it still feels like it's plastic. I like to say that if Topre made switches instead of cup rubber, brown tac Alps would be the closest approximation.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:24:56

This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter.

The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.


I was speaking from my own experience. I have had approximately 4 of each and, of those, serial numbers <500K were all orange and >500K were all salmon. As with Model M components such as heavy back plates, it seems that different plants switched from older to newer components at significantly different times, probably depending on what stock they and their upstream suppliers had on hand.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:27:32

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw

Thanks! I'm wondering what kind of switch NEXT-keyboards use. Since Jobs moved from Apple to NEXT and took most of the top engineers with him, NEXT-boards may be Alps as well.

The ADB NeXT keyboards are rubber dome, non-ADB are Alps SKCM Black.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:27:51
I have tried blue alps and orange alps and I think the closest one with topre is the orange alps but its a little bit different the bump of topre feels like a rounded bump as opposed to the orange alps which feels like a plastic hitting. I personally like topre better but Orange alps is really a good switch  :thumb:

Brown tactile Alps has more of a rounded tactility, but you're right. Despite the roundedness, it still feels like it's plastic. I like to say that if Topre made switches instead of cup rubber, brown tac Alps would be the closest approximation.
Listen to this guy he is an expert at alps!  :thumb:
thats why people loves topre the feel is unique to itself and no other board come close with the feels of topre. don't hear the crazy modders that says ergo clear or anything that they mod feels like topre
Its crazy that you think tomato is the same as steak  :p. but its a matter of taste you need to try both to know the feels and choose what you like!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Thu, 04 February 2016, 09:12:53
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.

Problem for me is, I live in the EU (Netherlands), so I have to pay a lot more to get it into my country (shipping, after-tax, and sometimes import tax). My ~300 USD 87UB has an extra tax of around 60 USD once it passes the border. That's 20% "extra"!
Come to the UK. I've been charged as much as the full value of the board PLUS the entire cost of the shipping as tax on top of what I've already paid before :p . You can even be charged tax on duties, and duties on tax on top of that!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: blk on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:43:51
Show me your love for Alps keyboards!

Which Alps keyboards have you loved over the years?
Which ones do you use on a regular basis?
Which ones do you recommend for the community?

I can only wish to own as many Alps keyboards as this guy...


Pictures incoming later today.  I have recently purchased and disembodied an Apple Extended Keyboard II, with plans to eventually cut it down to 60%, wire it to a teensy and use it as a portable keyboard.  Sadly, even with the guides out there, I'm having difficulty getting it to work.  I'm thinking of putting it in a wooden case to lower weight and increase style.  Typing is very enjoyable after clickifying them and slightly modifying their actuation force. 

I also have a Dell AT101W that I've clickified and lubed.  I use it in the lab at school.  Surprisingly, no one cares about the noise it makes.  Possibly because we work around whirring instruments all day.

Unfortunately, I think I've bought a bunk AT101W because the keys bind frequently, even with lubing.  Pressing the keys off center causes some nasty binding. 

Still, the feel of the board is better than any Cherry offerings that I've tried.  My AT101W gives a pleasing typing experience, with medium-loud click-clacks and sharp tactility.  I just need to type accurately! 

My only complaint is that is comes with ABS caps, and I would greatly prefer PBT as seen in my AEKII.  I have heard people say that ABS is best for ALPS, but I just don't agree.  Gotta have PBT for thocks and deep vibrations.

IBM BS is still the best in my opinion, but ALPS are leaps and bounds better than Cherry.  Maybe Matias will reclaim the ALPS throne?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:50:22
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.

Problem for me is, I live in the EU (Netherlands), so I have to pay a lot more to get it into my country (shipping, after-tax, and sometimes import tax). My ~300 USD 87UB has an extra tax of around 60 USD once it passes the border. That's 20% "extra"!
Come to the UK. I've been charged as much as the full value of the board PLUS the entire cost of the shipping as tax on top of what I've already paid before :p . You can even be charged tax on duties, and duties on tax on top of that!

I'm not even mad, that's amazing! Man, that sucks..
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:46:07
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubs

(http://i.imgur.com/DiiagWX.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/rqpQ8WZ.jpg)

I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?

album:

http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7

dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.
(https://deskthority.net/w/images/0/08/Jvp6311_front.jpg)

dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:46:25
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange)
This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter. Speaking as someone who has owned an AEK with orange Alps and seen one with a LOWER serial number containing salmon Alps. The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.
What were the two serial numbers you got? You’re probably right that there was a bit of overlap in production, but fohat is also 100% right that low-serial AEKs are all orange Alps, while the highest serial AEKs are all salmon Alps (those with lowest serials have orange Alps with a tall gray switchplate and no logo; later ones have orange Alps with the tall white switchplates, some with logos; the latest ones have salmon Alps). I’ve seen pictures of pulled caps on at least 30 of these, and the general pattern is clear.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:51:11
The ADB NeXT keyboards are rubber dome, non-ADB are Alps SKCM Black.
This is incorrect. There are both ADB and non-ADB NeXT boards with Alps switches, and I’m pretty sure there are also both ADB and non-ADB NeXT boards with rubber domes.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Touch_It on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:52:57

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw

Thanks! I'm wondering what kind of switch NEXT-keyboards use. Since Jobs moved from Apple to NEXT and took most of the top engineers with him, NEXT-boards may be Alps as well.

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw


I asked for one of these for christmas (and got it).  I love mine as it is simply plug and play.  Great if you are lazy lol.  He does seem to have a trillion of them.  At a good price I think as well.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: axtran on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:00:13
I'm almost scared of appreciating ALPS too hard since lately it's been driving prices to astronomical rates. There's no way SKCM Blue ALPS are driving the ridiculous prices as they are on eBay without the hype machine ruining things. They're not as rare as people think!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:12:21
I'm almost scared of appreciating ALPS too hard since lately it's been driving prices to astronomical rates. There's no way SKCM Blue ALPS are driving the ridiculous prices as they are on eBay without the hype machine ruining things. They're not as rare as people think!

Super true. They're just the most desireable. It's kind of how like the general vibe of everyone who gets into Cherry MX (ie steps into the mechanical keyboard market for the first time) falls in love with Cherry MX blue.

I started with linears and hated clickies in the MX world myself, but you know.

Just like so many people seem all about blues, well... The newbies to the Alps world are all about blues too. :P With good reason, because they are awesome, but it feels like the same kind of drive, that hype train.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:12:40
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubs

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/DiiagWX.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/rqpQ8WZ.jpg)


I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?

album:

http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7

dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.
Show Image
(https://deskthority.net/w/images/0/08/Jvp6311_front.jpg)


dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
thats  a beauty yo!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:23:35
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange)
This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter. Speaking as someone who has owned an AEK with orange Alps and seen one with a LOWER serial number containing salmon Alps. The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.
What were the two serial numbers you got? You’re probably right that there was a bit of overlap in production, but fohat is also 100% right that low-serial AEKs are all orange Alps, while the highest serial AEKs are all salmon Alps (those with lowest serials have orange Alps with a tall gray switchplate and no logo; later ones have orange Alps with the tall white switchplates, some with logos; the latest ones have salmon Alps). I’ve seen pictures of pulled caps on at least 30 of these, and the general pattern is clear.

Time for me to eat my humble pie.

I apologize if I came off as brash, fohat! I glanced the serial number for a salmon Alps AEK I was working on for a customer of mine, and I thought it was in the range of "75000' which was lower than my orange Alps AEK which had one that was high in the five digit range.  Turns out the salmon Alps AEK was around 750000, not 75000.

I forget what my orange AEK was, since I tossed the parts after desoldering the switches for a scammer who nearly got them from me (offered me a "great" deal on SKCM blues, but right when I was about to send these switches as a token of my gratitude, I realized he was pulling one on me).

I wish I had kept that case, but the orange Alps have ALPS-branded top housings, so they are a bit later down the line. What was the highest serial range you saw the grey-contact plate Alps in, jacob?
 
So I'll admit, I might be entirely wrong here.  :-X
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:24:24
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubs

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/DiiagWX.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/rqpQ8WZ.jpg)


I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?

album:

http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7

dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.
Show Image
(https://deskthority.net/w/images/0/08/Jvp6311_front.jpg)


dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
thats  a beauty yo!

Azerty is too much for me. Nice board!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Karura on Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:44:41
How limited are we on ALPS tactile switch options? I only know of Matias Quiet Click. Does anything else come close?

I quite like Complicated Blues and Greens, but never knew of a Tactile equivalent.

Also, just ordered a V60 ALPS, so quite excited. :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:51:50
How limited are we on ALPS tactile switch options? I only know of Matias Quiet Click. Does anything else come close?

I quite like Complicated Blues and Greens, but never knew of a Tactile equivalent.

Also, just ordered a V60 ALPS, so quite excited. :)
There are loads of tactile Alps, with considerably different characteristics. The earliest types (salmon, orange) are generally considered the best. As always with Alps; be mindful of the condition they're in!

Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Thu, 04 February 2016, 20:57:56
How limited are we on ALPS tactile switch options? I only know of Matias Quiet Click. Does anything else come close?

I quite like Complicated Blues and Greens, but never knew of a Tactile equivalent.

Also, just ordered a V60 ALPS, so quite excited. :)
There are loads of tactile Alps, with considerably different characteristics. The earliest types (salmon, orange) are generally considered the best. As always with Alps; be mindful of the condition they're in!

Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
It doesn't help that KBP advertises on the box that it has Alps switches.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:25:38
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
Both Matias clicky switches and Matias tactile “quiet click” switches feel very similar to white Alps, in my opinion. They don’t feel remotely like any Cherry switch.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:41:47
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.

If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.

I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.

I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:45:59
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubs

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/DiiagWX.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/rqpQ8WZ.jpg)


I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?

album:

http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7

dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.
Show Image
(https://deskthority.net/w/images/0/08/Jvp6311_front.jpg)


dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series

The bad news is that the Acer 63xx and 65xx boards use a nonconventional stabilizer.  In most ALPS boards, the wire is fixed on the plate, and moves back and forth in a slide inside the keycap.  The Acers, have a fixed point in the cap, and the sliding element is that raised lug on the board.

The mediocre news: you could probably fake it by attacing a little piece of bent metal or plastic at the right locations of the plate to capture the sliding stabilizer.

The good news:  It's not the stupidest stabilizer design in the world, in that it's pretty easy to get assembled correctly.  It's actually somewhat reminiscent of the way old Model Ms worked.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:43:13
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.

If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.

I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.

I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.

I click modded and linear modded some of my cream switches. They definitely feel completely different but I wouldn't be able to give a good opinion on them unless I could slap them on a keyboard and try them out. My 40%/45% keyboard will probably use modded cream switches in some capacity (which probably means click modding). Honestly though the keyboard I got was in such bad condition a lot of the switches magically click modded themselves. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mseaworthy on Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:04:47
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
I love this description, and the historical background you provided. I never paid attention to the force curve that closely, but Alps really do have a totally different feel after the click. Thanks for sharing this.

Great description! There is a wonderful rebound with Alps switches...vaguely similar to Topre but distinct still.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:06:01
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps?
One variant I really like is to take the housing/slider/dampers/spring from cream Alps with the click leaf from white Alps, snip all of the inactive coils off one end of the spring to make it shorter, reducing overall switch stiffness, and then bend the click leaf outward a bit to be a bit clickier. Kind of tedious to make a bunch of them though (in particular getting the stronger click semi-consistent isn’t trivial), and you need some really hard snippers to cut through spring wire without being damaged. The resulting switch is very snappy and loud at the click point but makes no sound at the bottom or top of the stroke.

The tactile leaf can then be swapped into the white Alps switch, and you basically get salmon switches.

The click-modded cream switches I made that way are very different from blue Alps though. I think you’ll have a tough time making any modded short-switchplate complicated Alps switch sound or feel like a blue switch. Not sure it’s that useful a goal; with the amount of fiddly work you’ll have to do to make a bunch of consistently modded switches of any type, you should just buy the blue switches directly if those are what you want.

I do wish there were a few options for after-market Alps/Alps clone/Omron/SMK/TEC/Matias springs (these are all close enough in diameter to have mostly interchangeable springs). It would be great to have a choice of 2 or 3 lengths, each with 2–3 different stiffnesses. Swapping the springs makes some of these switches much nicer IMO.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mseaworthy on Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:38:26
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.

If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.

I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.

I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.

This is an excellent experiment. As you say, the AEK IIs are in great supply and affordably priced. I’ve got a couple AEKs and AEK IIs but I’ve got them all disassembled for retrobriting right now. Should have them back together in a week, and I’m very interested to if you’ve discovered a poor man’s Porsche.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: flabbergast on Fri, 05 February 2016, 01:40:07
Just dropping by to say, for those of you who want an ADB-to-USB converter, you should be buying one from hasu: fully programmable (running TMK) + supporting the community! https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72052.0
EDIT: Forgot to advertise that the same converter can be used as a PS/2, NeXT, ... (and a bunch of other protocols - pretty much everything that uses mini-DIN connector) just by flashing a different firmware. EDIT2: changing the type also involves re-soldering SMT jumpers. Ah well.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Fri, 05 February 2016, 02:20:00
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
Both Matias clicky switches and Matias tactile “quiet click” switches feel very similar to white Alps, in my opinion. They don’t feel remotely like any Cherry switch.
Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: flabbergast on Fri, 05 February 2016, 02:30:10
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
Both Matias clicky switches and Matias tactile “quiet click” switches feel very similar to white Alps, in my opinion. They don’t feel remotely like any Cherry switch.
Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.
I like both Matias and ALPS - but I have to side with chyros here: the white clicky ALPS sound much more "mature" than matias clicks. (Though the quality of the feel&sound of both is way removed from anything Cherry switches can produce.)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 05 February 2016, 03:50:03
Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.
Find some NIB white Alps keyboard, put on some earplugs, and try it back to back with a Matias clicky keyboard. Very similar IMO, though the Matias switch has quite a bit more front-to-back wobble. (Not identical by any means, but pretty close. In general the Matias boards are “much more tactile” than white Alps boards because they’re new instead of 25 years old.) As you say, the sound is somewhat different, though that’s also greatly affected by context. Try soldering some clicky Matias switches next to some white Alps switches into the same board if you want a fair sound comparison.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:25:08
Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.
Find some NIB white Alps keyboard, put on some earplugs, and try it back to back with a Matias clicky keyboard. Very similar IMO, though the Matias switch has quite a bit more front-to-back wobble. (Not identical by any means, but pretty close. In general the Matias boards are “much more tactile” than white Alps boards because they’re new instead of 25 years old.) As you say, the sound is somewhat different, though that’s also greatly affected by context. Try soldering some clicky Matias switches next to some white Alps switches into the same board if you want a fair sound comparison.

How bad IS the wobble actually with matias? I've heard mixes stories.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: umeboshi on Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:32:45
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.

If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.

I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.

I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.

I did the same thing (click-mod + remove bumpers) on an AEK-II, and also click modded some oranges into a minitouch.  They are very similar, but the oranges seem to be just a tad heavier.  Since I had them out, I took a switch apart on each to compare.

Didn't know that the legs on the click leaves were different:

[attach=1]

I guess this explains why the oranges were a tad heavier...  :))

[attach=2]

I've never tried blues so I can't compare against those though.  Was hoping for a poor man's version of them with these mods though...  :p

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Fri, 05 February 2016, 06:53:58
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.

If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.

I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.

I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.

I did the same thing (click-mod + remove bumpers) on an AEK-II, and also click modded some oranges into a minitouch.  They are very similar, but the oranges seem to be just a tad heavier.  Since I had them out, I took a switch apart on each to compare.

Didn't know that the legs on the click leaves were different:

(Attachment Link)

I guess this explains why the oranges were a tad heavier...  :))

(Attachment Link)

I've never tried blues so I can't compare against those though.  Was hoping for a poor man's version of them with these mods though...
Those are some cool comparison shots. Interesting what you said about oranges being heavier. I thought the creams were ever so slightly heavier.

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but those longer legs on the click leaf look like they wouldn't really matter much since the extra length is after the bump. That should all just be clearance, I would think.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 05 February 2016, 07:44:51
For me, the bottom-line question is whether the "blue mystique" can be reproduced by modding more common switches. Specifically, I have a bag full of nice oranges that I am considering taking apart and rebuilding. I have never messed with Alps switches internally before.

I really need a tactile switch, but I have no need or desire for noise. In fact I consider the sound to be a disadvantage, but the feel is essential. A lighter force would be great but I will not be cutting any springs - too much too precise work to get real consistency. I have loads of spare switches, especially black, which I would rob for springs if I thought that they were significantly lighter, but I don't think they are.

Lubing seems to be the answer, and dry is clearly the way to go.

The other thing that I like about Alps is the high actuation point, but I don't think that will change in any case, will it?

While I am generally indifferent to the stock dampened cream style, I do appreciate that they seem to have the upstroke dampened, which is a good thing, but otherwise I plan to not get involved with them at this point.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:51:48
For me, the bottom-line question is whether the "blue mystique" can be reproduced by modding more common switches. Specifically, I have a bag full of nice oranges that I am considering taking apart and rebuilding. I have never messed with Alps switches internally before.

I really need a tactile switch, but I have no need or desire for noise. In fact I consider the sound to be a disadvantage, but the feel is essential. A lighter force would be great but I will not be cutting any springs - too much too precise work to get real consistency. I have loads of spare switches, especially black, which I would rob for springs if I thought that they were significantly lighter, but I don't think they are.

Lubing seems to be the answer, and dry is clearly the way to go.

The other thing that I like about Alps is the high actuation point, but I don't think that will change in any case, will it?

While I am generally indifferent to the stock dampened cream style, I do appreciate that they seem to have the upstroke dampened, which is a good thing, but otherwise I plan to not get involved with them at this point.
Taking apart Alps switches is easy, for sure you should give it a go :) .

The actuation point shouldn't change because that's a factor of the contact leaf, so if you don't change that, there's no reason it would be different.

Oranges themselves are lighter than other Alps switches (which tend to be ~70 gf). Whether this is due to a looser spring or a looser tactile leaf, I don't know.

I wouldn't advise substituting in springs from later Alps switches. Early Alps have gold-coloured springs with fewer windings than the later ones like blacks. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they make a difference in keyfeel.

I've looked for dry lubricants for Alps switches but frankly I'm stumped, I have no idea at all what they could've used, and dry lubricants are expensive.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:55:08
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
It doesn't help that KBP advertises on the box that it has Alps switches.

Yeah Matias are definitely Alps-mount switches but not exactly Alps SKCM/SKCL. Still, I don't think thats a detractor. Just semantics.

Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.

I agree with you mr Chyros
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Fri, 05 February 2016, 09:30:02
I did some blind testing this morning with blue Alps, click-modded orange, and click-modded dampened cream. I wanted to see if I could tell the difference by sound and feel alone.

It seems like the click-modded dampened cream Alps are much closer to blues than the click-modded oranges. Orange Alps have a stiffer bump, which makes them feel more like whites when click-modded. It doesn't feel like oranges have a heavier spring (at least not by much), but the stiffer bump makes them feel heavier. Not bad, but different.

Meanwhile, I had an incredibly difficult time telling apart the blues and creams. The blues have an ever so slightly deeper click sound, and when I plug my ears I perceive that blues are slightly heavier than creams. But other than that I can't tell them apart.

Next, I broke out a stack of nickels for a good old-fashioned actuation force test. I discovered that both the cream and blue switches require about 60g actuation force. Oranges were about 70g. Interestingly, non-click-modded cream Alps were also about 70g, so it's true that the click mod substantially affects the feel. White Alps are about 60g, but they feel much stiffer than blues or click-modded creams. I believe this is due to the combination of a lighter spring and a more pronounced bump on the leaf.

Summary: Click-modded oranges are closer to white Alps, and click-modded creams are closer to blue Alps.

I'm glad I did this because it's helped me make a decision on which switches to use for my next builds. I was going to click mod my remaining oranges and use those on my ANSI 60% build, but I already have some white Alps boards and I believe a board full of click-modded oranges would be too similar. Besides, I really like tactile oranges as-is, and if it ain't broke...

Instead, I'm going to click mod some cream Alps and use those for my next 60% build. I'm saving my bag of blues for my Monarch build, but after this experiment I truly believe that click-modded creams are a solid substitute for hard-to-find blues. The best part is, this simple mod takes an otherwise forgotten switch (dampened cream Alps) and turns it into something very desirable.

Now I'm just trying to figure out what to call this cream alps click mod. I was thinking about Ghetto Blues, because they're so similar to blues. But they're not blue, so that's confusing. I really like the fact that this mod has the potential to save cream alps from obscurity, so I was thinking of calling them Rescue Alps, kind of like a rescue dog that you save from the pound. Then again, the last thing this hobby needs is more jargon, so maybe just Click-modded Creams.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 February 2016, 09:31:23
Can I borrow a few of those switches to play with njbair? I'm really curious about the click-modding stuff. Just haven't had the time to test it out myself. And yeah, I think click-modded creams is fine. The naming has gotten crazy.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 05 February 2016, 10:03:35
I did some blind testing this morning with blue Alps, click-modded orange, and click-modded dampened cream. I wanted to see if I could tell the difference by sound and feel alone.

It seems like the click-modded dampened cream Alps are much closer to blues than the click-modded oranges. Orange Alps have a stiffer bump, which makes them feel more like whites when click-modded. It doesn't feel like oranges have a heavier spring (at least not by much), but the stiffer bump makes them feel heavier. Not bad, but different.

Meanwhile, I had an incredibly difficult time telling apart the blues and creams. The blues have an ever so slightly deeper click sound, and when I plug my ears I perceive that blues are slightly heavier than creams. But other than that I can't tell them apart.

Next, I broke out a stack of nickels for a good old-fashioned actuation force test. I discovered that both the cream and blue switches require about 60g actuation force. Oranges were about 70g. Interestingly, non-click-modded cream Alps were also about 70g, so it's true that the click mod substantially affects the feel. White Alps are about 60g, but they feel much stiffer than blues or click-modded creams. I believe this is due to the combination of a lighter spring and a more pronounced bump on the leaf.

Summary: Click-modded oranges are closer to white Alps, and click-modded creams are closer to blue Alps.

I'm glad I did this because it's helped me make a decision on which switches to use for my next builds. I was going to click mod my remaining oranges and use those on my ANSI 60% build, but I already have some white Alps boards and I believe a board full of click-modded oranges would be too similar. Besides, I really like tactile oranges as-is, and if it ain't broke...

Instead, I'm going to click mod some cream Alps and use those for my next 60% build. I'm saving my bag of blues for my Monarch build, but after this experiment I truly believe that click-modded creams are a solid substitute for hard-to-find blues. The best part is, this simple mod takes an otherwise forgotten switch (dampened cream Alps) and turns it into something very desirable.

Now I'm just trying to figure out what to call this cream alps click mod. I was thinking about Ghetto Blues, because they're so similar to blues. But they're not blue, so that's confusing. I really like the fact that this mod has the potential to save cream alps from obscurity, so I was thinking of calling them Rescue Alps, kind of like a rescue dog that you save from the pound. Then again, the last thing this hobby needs is more jargon, so maybe just Click-modded Creams.
why does my click modded orange have a soft bump instead the overpowered bump in blue alps?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Fri, 05 February 2016, 10:09:44
Can I borrow a few of those switches to play with njbair? I'm really curious about the click-modding stuff. Just haven't had the time to test it out myself. And yeah, I think click-modded creams is fine. The naming has gotten crazy.

No problem. I'll send you my mini test platform I built for this from an old IIGS plate, along with one of each switch type:

1. Stock orange
2. Click-modded orange
3. Stock white
4. Stock cream
5. Click-modded cream
6. Stock blue

(http://i.imgur.com/gSZZ0SO.jpg)

I'll toss in in a bubble mailer and get it out to you today.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 February 2016, 10:10:19
Sick, thanks so much njbair. PM me your Paypal, I'll kick you some cash for shipping.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 05 February 2016, 10:31:31
I did the impossible.  Bought a AEK for under $500

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 05 February 2016, 13:14:22
I did the impossible.  Bought a AEK for under $500


That looks like a very nice one. Usually they are seriously yellowed. With a high serial number it is very likely salmons.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 February 2016, 13:39:57
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
It doesn't help that KBP advertises on the box that it has Alps switches.

Yeah Matias are definitely Alps-mount switches but not exactly Alps SKCM/SKCL. Still, I don't think thats a detractor. Just semantics.

I think that's a factor of Matias switches being clones of the simplified SKBM/SKBL series instead of the complicated. Since Matias used to get their switches from Forward, it would make sense for Matias to have copied the switches from Forward.

I did the impossible.  Bought a AEK for under $500

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html

So YOU'RE the one who outbid me on that! I would've bid more but shipping is RIDICULOUS on Goodwill's website.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 05 February 2016, 13:43:47
I did the impossible.  Bought a AEK for under $500

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html
Note that this is one with salmon switches and no (pretend) claim to being NIB. Still a nice keyboard though. :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 05 February 2016, 13:57:43
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
It doesn't help that KBP advertises on the box that it has Alps switches.

Yeah Matias are definitely Alps-mount switches but not exactly Alps SKCM/SKCL. Still, I don't think thats a detractor. Just semantics.

I think that's a factor of Matias switches being clones of the simplified SKBM/SKBL series instead of the complicated. Since Matias used to get their switches from Forward, it would make sense for Matias to have copied the switches from Forward.

I did the impossible.  Bought a AEK for under $500

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html

So YOU'RE the one who outbid me on that! I would've bid more but shipping is RIDICULOUS on Goodwill's website.

Shipping is a bit ridiculous.  Still, I figured @ under 30 shipped, it was a good deal, even though its salmon vs orange.  This was right at the top of my budget.  I was assuming I would have got out bid at the last second.  Had I known I probably wouldn't have bid on it.  I never posted about it, in hopes that keeping it on the low down would keep the price low. 

@jacobolus  :D  Yeah, just making light of the crazy $500 auction, and the recent price hike in ALPS in general.  My collection is slowly growing.  Still have never tried Blue orange or amber alps.  I'm hoping salmon trumps dampened cream.  I quite enjoy them.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 February 2016, 14:13:04
I did the impossible.  Bought a AEK for under $500

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html
Note that this is one with salmon switches and no (pretend) claim to being NIB. Still a nice keyboard though. :)

Haha, a good price! I got my original orange Alps AEK for $16 before shipping, $30 shipped. There will always be some that fly under the radar, but with everyone's antennae up because of the Alps love in the community atm, it might not happen too often.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 February 2016, 14:20:03
Now I'm just trying to figure out what to call this cream alps click mod. I was thinking about Ghetto Blues, because they're so similar to blues. But they're not blue, so that's confusing. I really like the fact that this mod has the potential to save cream alps from obscurity, so I was thinking of calling them Rescue Alps, kind of like a rescue dog that you save from the pound. Then again, the last thing this hobby needs is more jargon, so maybe just Click-modded Creams.

Bleu Cheese Alps

Bleu Alps

Blueberry Cream Cheese Alps

Fat Lady Alps

Singing Cream Alps

Blues and Jazz Alps

Exonerated Creams

Transcendental Cream Alps

T-Pain Creams

Ice Cream Alps

THEY SOUND FANTASTIC.

You know, I have STILL never tried white Alps yet.

On my haven't tried list, I have only but the most common switches - dampened cream, SKCM black, SKCM white, and the odd NeXT SKCM cream (non-dampened).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 February 2016, 14:46:32

Shipping is a bit ridiculous.  Still, I figured @ under 30 shipped, it was a good deal, even though its salmon vs orange.  This was right at the top of my budget.  I was assuming I would have got out bid at the last second.  Had I known I probably wouldn't have bid on it.  I never posted about it, in hopes that keeping it on the low down would keep the price low. 

@jacobolus  :D  Yeah, just making light of the crazy $500 auction, and the recent price hike in ALPS in general.  My collection is slowly growing.  Still have never tried Blue orange or amber alps.  I'm hoping salmon trumps dampened cream.  I quite enjoy them.

I'm glad to see that someone bought it who has never tried Salmons before, I prefer them to Cream Damped Alps myself. I'd also much rather someone in the keyboard community buy it instead of some Apple collector who will just let it sit on a shelf in the box.

You know, I have STILL never tried white Alps yet.

On my haven't tried list, I have only but the most common switches - dampened cream, SKCM black, SKCM white, and the odd NeXT SKCM cream (non-dampened).

How strange! I've tried most of the common switches such as Cream Damped, Black, and White. I still need to find some Greens, Yellows, Grays, etc. though. Hopefully when I buy another SHARP X68K it actually has Green Alps.  :confused:

P.S. Does anyone know where I can find some Alps clones that have the LED cutout? I'd love to get some of the green Xiang Min switches but I don't know where one would find those. I need to replace some switches in my Focus but I need switches that support an LED.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mseaworthy on Fri, 05 February 2016, 15:24:48
I did some blind testing this morning with blue Alps, click-modded orange, and click-modded dampened cream. I wanted to see if I could tell the difference by sound and feel alone.

It seems like the click-modded dampened cream Alps are much closer to blues than the click-modded oranges. Orange Alps have a stiffer bump, which makes them feel more like whites when click-modded. It doesn't feel like oranges have a heavier spring (at least not by much), but the stiffer bump makes them feel heavier. Not bad, but different.

Meanwhile, I had an incredibly difficult time telling apart the blues and creams. The blues have an ever so slightly deeper click sound, and when I plug my ears I perceive that blues are slightly heavier than creams. But other than that I can't tell them apart.

Next, I broke out a stack of nickels for a good old-fashioned actuation force test. I discovered that both the cream and blue switches require about 60g actuation force. Oranges were about 70g. Interestingly, non-click-modded cream Alps were also about 70g, so it's true that the click mod substantially affects the feel. White Alps are about 60g, but they feel much stiffer than blues or click-modded creams. I believe this is due to the combination of a lighter spring and a more pronounced bump on the leaf.

Summary: Click-modded oranges are closer to white Alps, and click-modded creams are closer to blue Alps.

I'm glad I did this because it's helped me make a decision on which switches to use for my next builds. I was going to click mod my remaining oranges and use those on my ANSI 60% build, but I already have some white Alps boards and I believe a board full of click-modded oranges would be too similar. Besides, I really like tactile oranges as-is, and if it ain't broke...

Instead, I'm going to click mod some cream Alps and use those for my next 60% build. I'm saving my bag of blues for my Monarch build, but after this experiment I truly believe that click-modded creams are a solid substitute for hard-to-find blues. The best part is, this simple mod takes an otherwise forgotten switch (dampened cream Alps) and turns it into something very desirable.

Now I'm just trying to figure out what to call this cream alps click mod. I was thinking about Ghetto Blues, because they're so similar to blues. But they're not blue, so that's confusing. I really like the fact that this mod has the potential to save cream alps from obscurity, so I was thinking of calling them Rescue Alps, kind of like a rescue dog that you save from the pound. Then again, the last thing this hobby needs is more jargon, so maybe just Click-modded Creams.
[/
quote]

Thanks for sharing this--great comparison, and so good to elevate creams.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 18:18:09
I did the impossible.  Bought a AEK for under $500


That looks like a very nice one. Usually they are seriously yellowed. With a high serial number it is very likely salmons.

Wait what? So if I were out to buy an AEK I need at least 500$? I thought they were cheap, more like 50-80 USD? All hope is lost..
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 February 2016, 18:19:00
I did the impossible.  Bought a AEK for under $500


That looks like a very nice one. Usually they are seriously yellowed. With a high serial number it is very likely salmons.

Wait what? So if I were out to buy an AEK I need at least 500$? I thought they were cheap, more like 50-80 USD? All hope is lost..

It's a joke lol. They're about $30 USD. Someone paid $500 in an earlier post in this thread.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 18:20:36
I did the impossible.  Bought a AEK for under $500


That looks like a very nice one. Usually they are seriously yellowed. With a high serial number it is very likely salmons.

The relieve is real. I cannot wait to get my hands on an AEK. It will be my first vintage board. And it will bring me great nostalgia feels.

Wait what? So if I were out to buy an AEK I need at least 500$? I thought they were cheap, more like 50-80 USD? All hope is lost..

It's a joke lol. They're about $30 USD. Someone paid $500 in an earlier post in this thread.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 05 February 2016, 19:17:37
They're about $30 USD.

That is a very good price and you would have to be patient.

Twice that would be more common.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 February 2016, 19:33:25
They're about $30 USD.

That is a very good price and you would have to be patient.

Twice that would be more common.

Especially now, but that is what I paid for mine.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ShawnMeg on Fri, 05 February 2016, 21:56:05
I have an AEK with click modded oranges, an AEK II with click modded creams (dampers removed), and a Northgate Omnikey Ultra with SKCM whites.  Of these three, I like the AEK with the modded oranges the best.  The switches are very smooth and have a nice deep, bassy sound.  I haven't done a fair side by side comparison between the AEK and AEK II, as the AEK is at my work office, but my finger memory and ears prefer the oranges.

At the present time, the oranges are my second favorite switch after Model F buckling springs (or maybe a tie with the Model M buckling springs).  I haven't had the opportunity to try out SKCM Blues and cannot comment on how the oranges compare to them.

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 February 2016, 22:27:49
Just bought an AEK with Oranges for $30, and I have another one on offer that was accepted.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 February 2016, 22:35:30
Just bought an AEK with Oranges for $30, and I have another one on offer that was accepted.

Dang Blaise. Do you mind my asking of where you got the boards?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 February 2016, 23:59:31
Dang Blaise. Do you mind my asking of where you got the boards?

Ebay. I just make offers and sellers are usually willing to accept them.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 06 February 2016, 06:30:34
They're about $30 USD.

That is a very good price and you would have to be patient.

Twice that would be more common.

I'm used to Realforce/HHKB-prices with import customs / import tax prices on top of that. So 60$ still sounds like "free".
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 02:31:04
ALPS fans  :D
IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86
Some high resolution pictures updated!!!
http://xiangce.baidu.com/picture/album/list/5a6c7908687be23f1d2ef80de074fe040d81c660?isscore=1#pic

I take back my doubts, xixihaha. Seems this is real. Amazing find!

Looks like another one turned up on Deskthority, https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ibm-blue-alps-t12798.html

And holy **** those F row keycaps are tall:
(http://i.imgur.com/NcHcNII.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 07 February 2016, 02:56:59
Is it just me or what? Why does alps feel cheap? After I tried old cherry mx black with thick og caps its just feels that alps is cheap. well I've yet to try all the alps

Its like cherry is a good beef with lots of exotic ingredients
And alps is like a good beef but with mediocre herbs
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 03:03:04
After I tried old cherry mx black with thick og caps its just feels that alps is cheap. well I've yet to try all the alps

Its like cherry is a good beef with lots of exotic ingredients; And alps is like a good beef but with mediocre herbs

If a rubber dome is like a bowl of sugar cereal in a bowl of non-dairy milk substitute...

Cherry MX is like cheap macaroni with american cheese and chunks of mystery-meat hot dogs tossed in. You can pick whichever color of food coloring you want to have mixed in with the cheese. It won’t give you instant diabetes but it’s hardly a healthy lifestyle.

Alps from the 80s–early 90s gives you the choice of well-made sandwich at the corner sandwich shop: pastrami on rye, BLT, Italian sub, maybe even a burger.

All those sexy switches and keycaps from the 60s–70s are the real gourmet stuff.

You want OG? These Alps switches and keycaps make Cherry MX black feel like a toy:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3801/9764673284_9d439906b9_h.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3768/9764607194_484cad3d5d_h.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3780/9764721863_4f7c4c3952_h.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5514/9764868922_61f171407c_h.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2807/9765734984_b51be45879_h.jpg)

For more see:
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/alps-cb14182b-scb1a163-aka-super-alps-t6525.html
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/albums/72157635545864692/page2
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 07 February 2016, 03:31:03
After I tried old cherry mx black with thick og caps its just feels that alps is cheap. well I've yet to try all the alps

Its like cherry is a good beef with lots of exotic ingredients; And alps is like a good beef but with mediocre herbs

If a rubber dome is like a bowl of sugar cereal in a bowl of non-dairy milk substitute...

Cherry MX is like cheap macaroni with american cheese and chunks of mystery-meat hot dogs tossed in. You can pick whichever color of food coloring you want to have mixed in with the cheese. It won’t give you instant diabetes but it’s hardly a healthy lifestyle.

Alps from the 80s–early 90s gives you the choice of well-made sandwich at the corner sandwich shop: pastrami on rye, BLT, Italian sub, maybe even a burger.

All those sexy switches and keycaps from the 60s–70s are the real gourmet stuff.

You want OG? These Alps switches and keycaps make Cherry MX black feel like a toy:
Show Image
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3801/9764673284_9d439906b9_h.jpg)

Show Image
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3768/9764607194_484cad3d5d_h.jpg)

Show Image
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3780/9764721863_4f7c4c3952_h.jpg)

Show Image
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5514/9764868922_61f171407c_h.jpg)

Show Image
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2807/9765734984_b51be45879_h.jpg)


For more see:
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/alps-cb14182b-scb1a163-aka-super-alps-t6525.html
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/albums/72157635545864692/page2
I have to say that board is a beauty  :thumb:

I've heard about that board and haata said that its his favourite right?

The problem with the real gourmet stuff is just that they are hard to find, hard to maintain, and hard to use, and even hard to ship to another country which is sucks

Well I need to try find a good caps for alps and some custom that could use alps so I could call my final verdict of alps
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mastermachetier on Sun, 07 February 2016, 03:33:06
I've only been fortunate enough to have an orange alps m0116 my favorite switch, but I hate the layout. I really want to get my hands on a m0115 but haven't been able to find one at a good price. Also wish I had access to other alps and mantis keys to try for comparison I don't want to buy them in bulk in case I don't like one but if any of you guys have a sampler pack or one of each you like to sell I'd pay for shipping that would be awesome. :) Also where the heck do you find blues for sale?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:42:51
You want OG? These Alps switches and keycaps make Cherry MX black feel like a toy:
Show Image
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3801/9764673284_9d439906b9_h.jpg)


MMMMmmm those caps... nice.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Bucake on Sun, 07 February 2016, 05:28:15
problem with fancy oldskool boards like that is
- finding one
- paying for one
- restoring one
- getting one to work with modern hardware
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 05:29:35
problem with fancy oldskool boards like that is
- finding one
- paying for one
- restoring one
- getting one to work with modern hardware

But the dopamine / adrenaline rush when you get it to work... mmmm
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ctm on Sun, 07 February 2016, 17:08:25
I've only been fortunate enough to have an orange alps m0116 my favorite switch, but I hate the layout. I really want to get my hands on a m0115 but haven't been able to find one at a good price. Also wish I had access to other alps and mantis keys to try for comparison I don't want to buy them in bulk in case I don't like one but if any of you guys have a sampler pack or one of each you like to sell I'd pay for shipping that would be awesome. :) Also where the heck do you find blues for sale?
I am also interested in a sampler pack :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 07 February 2016, 17:26:25
I am also interested in a sampler pack

At one point I think that Orihalcon was planning to put together some samplers. There is a problem that they (with the exception of Matias) are old and out of production. A company like Cherry has real incentive to help you evaluate before you decide which one of their products to purchase. There is little incentive for anyone to buy, process, sell, and ship scavenged Reagan-era gear "just to be nice"
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 17:30:18
I am also interested in a sampler pack

At one point I think that Orihalcon was planning to put together some samplers. There is a problem that they (with the exception of Matias) are old and out of production. A company like Cherry has real incentive to help you evaluate before you decide which one of their products to purchase. There is little incentive for anyone to buy, process, sell, and ship scavenged Reagan-era gear "just to be nice"

Too bad :-(
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: henz on Sun, 07 February 2016, 17:34:33
Dying to get back to work so I can put my alps board into my winner FMJ !!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:04:40
Too bad

Or, you could do like us old-timers: just buy a whole bunch of junk keyboards and keep using them until you figure out what you like.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:18:02
Here are some fun Alps keycaps:
(http://i.imgur.com/PdrzKxN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e9gmqfq.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ctm on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:45:42
I am also interested in a sampler pack

At one point I think that Orihalcon was planning to put together some samplers. There is a problem that they (with the exception of Matias) are old and out of production. A company like Cherry has real incentive to help you evaluate before you decide which one of their products to purchase. There is little incentive for anyone to buy, process, sell, and ship scavenged Reagan-era gear "just to be nice"
Actually I hesitate whether I want to jump into world of vintage Alps. (some of) They are hard to find and the condition varies. Even in good condition, they are around 20 years old. Not sure how long they will last, but probably shorter than new switches. It will be very sad if I fall in love with some vintage Alps and can't find any replacement when my old switches fail. I am quite happy with Matias switch now. Maybe I should just stick with Matias switches.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mastermachetier on Sun, 07 February 2016, 19:00:21
I am also interested in a sampler pack

At one point I think that Orihalcon was planning to put together some samplers. There is a problem that they (with the exception of Matias) are old and out of production. A company like Cherry has real incentive to help you evaluate before you decide which one of their products to purchase. There is little incentive for anyone to buy, process, sell, and ship scavenged Reagan-era gear "just to be nice"
Actually I hesitate whether I want to jump into world of vintage Alps. (some of) They are hard to find and the condition varies. Even in good condition, they are around 20 years old. Not sure how long they will last, but probably shorter than new switches. It will be very sad if I fall in love with some vintage Alps and can't find any replacement when my old switches fail. I am quite happy with Matias switch now. Maybe I should just stick with Matias switches.

I was happy with my brown until I found my blue. Then I tried alps orange and,yes life changed now I spend all my time on craigslist searching for old keyboards :(. That being said never tried mantias switches so who knows I could like those better. Oh and I have Zealious and gateron reds from a group buy coming in... What am I doing with my life.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 19:15:43
Even in good condition, they are around 20 years old. Not sure how long they will last, but probably shorter than new switches.
Electrically, complicated Alps switches are very sturdy and reliable. The “switchplate” part where the electrical contacts are is well sealed and makes a very clean electrical signal, switching from on to off with almost no bouncing. The design is much more effective than Cherry MX switches, or simplified Alps switches or other clones (e.g. Matias switches).

Time alone isn’t going to do any damage to complicated Alps switches stored properly in a box or under a dust cover. The main threats are metal leaf springs bent out of shape (if the ones which push the electrical contacts together get bent out of shape, the switch can stop actuating reliably), and dust/dirt getting into the switch internals where it adds a “scratchy” feeling to the switch. Bending of the leaf springs only happens if the keyboards are stored with the keys held down for years at a time (not a danger if you store your keyboard properly), or if they are used for full time typing for decades. Even then, the switches are easy to disassemble and with some finesse it’s usually possible to bend the metal leaves back into shape.

Obviously if you dump your keyboard in a lake, drop it 10m onto concrete, bury it in the dirt, etc. you can wreck Alps switches pretty easily. Under regular use and storage, however, one that is in good condition today should still be in pretty good condition in another 10–20 years.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 07 February 2016, 20:41:48
Here are some fun Alps keycaps:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/PdrzKxN.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/e9gmqfq.jpg)


I wonder what kind of printing those keys use.  :cool:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 20:59:48
They’re mostly double-injection-molded ABS. Not sure about the cyrillic ones though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 07 February 2016, 21:34:23
I'm amazed by alps keycaps. How the hell did they dyesub abs?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mseaworthy on Mon, 08 February 2016, 16:17:57
For me, the bottom-line question is whether the "blue mystique" can be reproduced by modding more common switches. Specifically, I have a bag full of nice oranges that I am considering taking apart and rebuilding. I have never messed with Alps switches internally before.

I really need a tactile switch, but I have no need or desire for noise. In fact I consider the sound to be a disadvantage, but the feel is essential. A lighter force would be great but I will not be cutting any springs - too much too precise work to get real consistency. I have loads of spare switches, especially black, which I would rob for springs if I thought that they were significantly lighter, but I don't think they are.

Lubing seems to be the answer, and dry is clearly the way to go.

The other thing that I like about Alps is the high actuation point, but I don't think that will change in any case, will it?

While I am generally indifferent to the stock dampened cream style, I do appreciate that they seem to have the upstroke dampened, which is a good thing, but otherwise I plan to not get involved with them at this point.

@ fohat I recall in one of your recent posts you said you really like the tactile feel of Alps but don’t need or want much sound (or perhaps as little of it as possible).

I thought of those comments today when I finished restoring an AEK II with dampened white switches. I have cream damped, salmon, and orange alps but never tried damped whites prior to this. While they were quiet, I wasn’t sure they were damped until I opened up a switch to confirm it.

But they are a wonderful feeling and sounding switch—perhaps you have already sampled them, but I’d describe them as maybe 35% of the noise of an orange or salmon switch but not as crisp feeling. I know that’s really imprecise and it’s all personal, but I was really surprised great accomplishment of precision and feel for the comparatively low level lack of clack (not that I mind the clack, but there are times when less clack is desirable). I have a Matais Laptop Pro, and the white damped Alps are more quiet and offer a more satisfying feel.

It’s an odd comparison, but they feel vaguely similar to silenced HHKB switches—sound similar too but the sound is more of a is higher pitched “thock.” I still prefer a salmon switch, but this is a great quiet-time switch.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 08 February 2016, 16:39:58
Received my AEK with Oranges and the Magnavox VideoWriter with Brown Alps Mitsumi Hybrid today.  :'(
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Mon, 08 February 2016, 16:57:49
Mitsumi Hybrid today.  :'(
Oh ****, I didn't even know they could come with that :( . Good to know, should be wikified...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 February 2016, 16:59:03
Received my AEK with Oranges and the Magnavox VideoWriter with Brown Alps Mitsumi Hybrid today.  :'(

Were you hoping for brown linears or brown tactiles?

Brown SKCL, those slippery dogs!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:20:47
Received my AEK with Oranges and the Magnavox VideoWriter with Brown Alps Mitsumi Hybrid today.  :'(
Damn bro this one need to be wikified!
Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki too
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:21:59
@ fohat I recall in one of your recent posts you said you really like the tactile feel of Alps but don’t need or want much sound [...]  I thought of those comments today when I finished restoring an AEK II with dampened white switches. [...] But they are a wonderful feeling and sounding switch

Personally I don’t like the feel of dampened white switches. They feel lumpy and mushy, noticeably less pleasant than the cream switches (which are already not my favorite). YMMV though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:22:32
Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki too
Just add stuff to the Deskthority wiki.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:24:42

can we rebuilt our GH wiki?


I think everyone here is gun shy that  r00tw0rm  will swoop in and erase it again.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:54:21
Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki too
Just add stuff to the Deskthority wiki.
Exactly, it makes no sense to spend a lot of effort to rebuild something that already exists somewhere else :p . Better to work together to make something big and singular :) .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 08 February 2016, 18:31:31
Even though it is nice to have a wiki for GH, it is redundant to have multiple. I'd much prefer having only one wiki and contributing to it so that we don't have misinformation between wikis, etc. It just wouldn't make sense for someone to make a new wikipedia2 to compete with wikipedia, you know?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:02:34
Even though it is nice to have a wiki for GH, it is redundant to have multiple. I'd much prefer having only one wiki and contributing to it so that we don't have misinformation between wikis, etc. It just wouldn't make sense for someone to make a new wikipedia2 to compete with wikipedia, you know?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160209/2f2611e181c113e9de1b932ea9128fc7.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:06:43
Well its a hard truth. I think you guys are right! But its cool to have some wiki or information about custom korean board right?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: axtran on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:21:32
Actually I hesitate whether I want to jump into world of vintage Alps. (some of) They are hard to find and the condition varies. Even in good condition, they are around 20 years old. Not sure how long they will last, but probably shorter than new switches. It will be very sad if I fall in love with some vintage Alps and can't find any replacement when my old switches fail. I am quite happy with Matias switch now. Maybe I should just stick with Matias switches.

I support this. Leave Vintage ALPS for the rest of us. ;)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:26:21
Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki too
Just add stuff to the Deskthority wiki.
Exactly, it makes no sense to spend a lot of effort to rebuild something that already exists somewhere else :p . Better to work together to make something big and singular :) .
Who said that the GH wiki has to be the same as the DT wiki?
We just need to find some sort of feature for the GH wiki to have that the DT wiki won't.
Last year there was a movement to have the wiki started back up but that died. I would totally be in for helping recreate our wiki if we had the carte blanche.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:53:10
Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki too
Just add stuff to the Deskthority wiki.
Exactly, it makes no sense to spend a lot of effort to rebuild something that already exists somewhere else :p . Better to work together to make something big and singular :) .
Who said that the GH wiki has to be the same as the DT wiki?
We just need to find some sort of feature for the GH wiki to have that the DT wiki won't.
Last year there was a movement to have the wiki started back up but that died. I would totally be in for helping recreate our wiki if we had the carte blanche.
Yes a wiki about custom and tricks and all caps info!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:55:47
Who said that the GH wiki has to be the same as the DT wiki?
Well, the discussion here in particular was adding to existing lists of keyboards known to have particular types of switches. Seems stupid to put that anywhere but the existing Deskthority wiki.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 02:08:31
Can anyone guess what my latest project is?

(http://i.imgur.com/i292x7S.jpg)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 09 February 2016, 02:12:42
Are those switches in the background “simplified” linear Futabas?

How much are you going to remake on that M0116? Whole new case? Cut down the PCB/plate or keep the same layout?

Are you keeping the springs as they are on the linear Matias switches? (I recommend swapping in some stiffer springs, e.g. from those other Alps switches in your pic.)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 09 February 2016, 04:44:10
Can anyone guess what my latest project is?

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/i292x7S.jpg)


Nice!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 07:58:07
In the background are Salmon SKCM, Futaba Sealed Linear, and CS Alps clones.I actually have a nice plate for the Futaba but that's useless without keycaps. I don't plan on changing the M0116 at this time, but some Retrobright is in order. Also not planning on changing the Matias at this time as I rather like them stock.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 09 February 2016, 08:49:05
Since I have the M0116.. is here an ADB-USB adapter that anybody is aware of?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: flabbergast on Tue, 09 February 2016, 08:56:08
Since I have the M0116.. is here an ADB-USB adapter that anybody is aware of?
Yes, you can get one from hasu: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72052.0 (support the development of TMK and hardware!)
And someone from France is selling a 'commercial one' over on DT: https://deskthority.net/for-sale-f55/alps-keyboards-logitech-g500-and-steelseries-keycap-t12865.html
EDIT: Or you can wire one yourself, there's a link to 'instructions' thread on hasu's page linked above.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 09 February 2016, 08:56:51
Since I have the M0116.. is here an ADB-USB adapter that anybody is aware of?
Yes, you can get one from hasu: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72052.0 (support the development of TMK and hardware!)
And someone from France is selling a 'commercial one' over on DT: https://deskthority.net/for-sale-f55/alps-keyboards-logitech-g500-and-steelseries-keycap-t12865.html

Thanks!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: piemancoder on Tue, 09 February 2016, 17:51:44
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 09 February 2016, 18:09:05
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?

The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.

I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 09 February 2016, 18:41:19
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?

The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.

I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Yeah I like a full pbt sets also!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Tue, 09 February 2016, 19:44:13
I just did a writeup in the Making Stuff Together forum, explaining how an Alps click mod works. I even made a cutaway Alps switch for illustration:

(http://i.imgur.com/3iFsMp2.gif)

Here's a link to the thread for anyone who's interested: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79539.0
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 09 February 2016, 19:45:14
I just did a writeup in the Making Stuff Together forum, explaining how an Alps click mod works. I even made a cutaway Alps switch for illustration:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3iFsMp2.gif)


Here's a link to the thread for anyone who's interested: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79539.0
Really nice mods njbair!
Edit: I have to say again really nice write!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 19:54:18
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?

The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.

I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.

Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though!  :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Tue, 09 February 2016, 22:22:30
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:48:06
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 00:17:11
Do you guys know a cheap alps keyboard with Japanese legends hopefully something that isn't SKCC . I am in the US if that makes a difference.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: piemancoder on Wed, 10 February 2016, 06:40:34
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?

The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.

I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.

Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though!  :)

How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: flabbergast on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:13:07
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?

The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.

I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.

Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though!  :)

How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:28:29
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?

The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.

I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.

Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though!  :)

How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.
Yeah that would be awesome!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:28:37
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?

The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.

I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.

Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though!  :)

How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.
Yeah that would be awesome!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:32:24
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe

What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:33:42
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe

What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
100ish orange alps
And mint blue apls board?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:47:52
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe

What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
100ish orange alps
And mint blue apls board?

<SNIP>

MODERATION NOTE: Do not circumvent the Classifieds Rules (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56284.0) by posting outside of the Classifieds subforum.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:51:19

All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe

What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
100ish orange alps
And mint blue apls board?

<SNIP>

MODERATION NOTE: Do not circumvent the Classifieds Rules (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56284.0) by posting outside of the Classifieds subforum.
Wat
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:01:47
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?

The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.

I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.

Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though!  :)

How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.
Yeah that would be awesome!

Always more PBT. Need PBT. Much.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:05:58
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.

Salmon Alps in AEK2 are very rare. They only made a very few at the beginning of the run. A late-run AEK (1) would be much easier to find.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:19:02
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.

Salmon Alps in AEK2 are very rare. They only made a very few at the beginning of the run. A late-run AEK (1) would be much easier to find.

Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:20:30
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.

Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:21:23

All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe

What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
100ish orange alps
And mint blue apls board?

<SNIP>

MODERATION NOTE: Do not circumvent the Classifieds Rules (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56284.0) by posting outside of the Classifieds subforum.
Wat

Like romevi trying to get into the Alps world, so I would be interested in what you are trying to sell...  It is hard to find cheap boards, and know the quality of the switches, so having someone who knows about them and already has looked them over really helps.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 10 February 2016, 09:43:09


All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.

Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe

What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
100ish orange alps
And mint blue apls board?

Sold, just let me know where to send my pp address... :)
Wat

Like romevi trying to get into the Alps world, so I would be interested in what you are trying to sell...  It is hard to find cheap boards, and know the quality of the switches, so having someone who knows about them and already has looked them over really helps.

He never even said a price lol
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:00:22
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?

The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.

I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.

Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though!  :)

How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.

Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:00:42
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.

Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.

Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:07:41
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.

Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.

Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Orange Alps are pretty easy to find. I would consider them a very good tactile switch.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:10:53
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.

Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.

Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Orange Alps are pretty easy to find. I would consider them a very good tactile switch.

And those are usually in the AEK I, yes?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:13:23


I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe

What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
100ish orange alps
And mint blue apls board?

<SNIP>

MODERATION NOTE: Do not circumvent the Classifieds Rules (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56284.0) by posting outside of the Classifieds subforum.
Wat

Like romevi trying to get into the Alps world, so I would be interested in what you are trying to sell...  It is hard to find cheap boards, and know the quality of the switches, so having someone who knows about them and already has looked them over really helps.

He never even said a price lol

True, I guess I expect that the prices to be fair... But I was just trying to tip him over to selling them as they are multiple interested members.

I blame the guy that asked him what he was selling! ;)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:15:17
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.

Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.

Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Salmon Alps are NOTHING like MX browns xD . They're very nice switches, to date possibly the ones I type on fastest.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:18:41
maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Salmon was the replacement for orange and extremely similar. They are the best tactile (but non-clicky) switches of all, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:32:17
The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.

Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:32:41
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.

Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.

Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Salmon Alps are NOTHING like MX browns xD . They're very nice switches, to date possibly the ones I type on fastest.

I'm so conflicted!  :-\
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:34:23
The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.

Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.

How significant were the changes? I know there is a lot of debate over whether blues and whites are really that different. But to me there seems to be a clear difference.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:41:05
maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Salmon was the replacement for orange and extremely similar. They are the best tactile (but non-clicky) switches of all, in my opinion.


The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.

Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.

Okay, neat. Looks like I'll be on the lookout for an AEK with orange or AEK II with Salmon.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:46:14
maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Salmon was the replacement for orange and extremely similar. They are the best tactile (but non-clicky) switches of all, in my opinion.


The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.

Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.

Okay, neat. Looks like I'll be on the lookout for an AEK with orange or AEK II with Salmon.  :thumb:
Or a IIGS. Some of those have orange.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:48:43
The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.

Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.

How significant were the changes? I know there is a lot of debate over whether blues and whites are really that different. But to me there seems to be a clear difference.
It's hard to truly show any material differences between the two, but as far as I know, the vast majority of people agree blues are noticeably better than whites. The noise is also unmistakably different.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:49:47
maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Salmon was the replacement for orange and extremely similar. They are the best tactile (but non-clicky) switches of all, in my opinion.


The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.

Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.

Okay, neat. Looks like I'll be on the lookout for an AEK with orange or AEK II with Salmon.  :thumb:
Or a IIGS. Some of those have orange.

Oh, sweet. I'm also looking to get a board I can use the keycaps for if I ever decide to get a custom Alps board later down the road.
All I'd need to use it with modern computers is hasu's ADB-USB converter, yes?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: flabbergast on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:53:38
Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).
True! Forgot about the Matias 60% GB. Oh, when that hits the market, it will hit pretty hard :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:58:52
Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).
True! Forgot about the Matias 60% GB. Oh, when that hits the market, it will hit pretty hard :)
I'm kind of worried that they missed their window of opportunity. When that GB started there was no such thing as a V60 MTS, or even a hasu Alps64 PCB.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Delirious on Wed, 10 February 2016, 11:17:45
Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).
True! Forgot about the Matias 60% GB. Oh, when that hits the market, it will hit pretty hard :)
I'm kind of worried that they missed their window of opportunity. When that GB started there was no such thing as a V60 MTS, or even a hasu Alps64 PCB.

It still irks me to no end whenever I see the fat and skinny keys at the bottom row. That bottom row also makes all the current aftermarket 60% cases useless.

I really hope Matias 60% to be either extremely successful or massively failed, no middle ground life support bull****. Either it would be so revolutionary that the mass will adapt to it slowly, like HHKB, or it is utterly terrible that Matias has to rethink their direction. I would like the success route of course, since I already partook in it :-]
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: flabbergast on Wed, 10 February 2016, 11:19:56
Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).
True! Forgot about the Matias 60% GB. Oh, when that hits the market, it will hit pretty hard :)
I'm kind of worried that they missed their window of opportunity. When that GB started there was no such thing as a V60 MTS, or even a hasu Alps64 PCB.
There will be two things working for them: the arrow cluster on the KB, and the PBT keyset. And also I think they've already funded the whole enterprise, so (at least the GB bit) should not be a completely losing proposition. Also once they'll have the molds (which should be funded essentially from the GB), they can start churning ALPS PBT sets and charging a relatively high price for them - regardless of success(hopefully) or failure of the 60% GB.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 10 February 2016, 11:26:34
It still irks me to no end whenever I see the fat and skinny keys at the bottom row. That bottom row also makes all the current aftermarket 60% cases useless.
The fat bottom row is really the only thing that distinguishes it from any other keyboard though.. without that there wouldn’t be much point IMO.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 February 2016, 14:15:37
Salmon Alps are NOTHING like MX browns xD . They're very nice switches, to date possibly the ones I type on fastest.

Yes, they are quite nice! I find them to feel the most similar to MX Clear or Ergo Clear switches than all the other tactile varieties. I've actually never tried MX brown, so I can't leave an opinion there.

Orange Alps are fantastic, but since they feel so much like blues to me, except a hair lighter and without the click, they tend to bore me these days.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:02:59
Found some interesting stuff over on goodwill although a lot of you have probably already discovered this .

2 Apple m0110A - currently at $10 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 07292.html

4 m0115 - currently at $11 5 days left

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 06370.html

TRS 80 - $11 1 day left no bids so far

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/VT ... 99911.html

F122 27598022(1986) $5 6 days left

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/IB ... 98022.html
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: sean on Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:26:55
Found some interesting stuff over on goodwill although a lot of you have probably already discovered this .

2 Apple m0110A - currently at $10 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 07292.html

4 m0115 - currently at $11 5 days left

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 06370.html

TRS 80 - $11 1 day left no bids so far

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/VT ... 99911.html

F122 27598022(1986) $5 6 days left

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/IB ... 98022.html

Something happened to your links
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:29:24
Found some interesting stuff over on goodwill although a lot of you have probably already discovered this .

2 Apple m0110A - currently at $10 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 07292.html

4 m0115 - currently at $11 5 days left

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 06370.html

TRS 80 - $11 1 day left no bids so far

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/VT ... 99911.html

F122 27598022(1986) $5 6 days left

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/IB ... 98022.html

Something happened to your links


you are right the correct links are below


2 Apple m0110A - currently at $10  5  days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lot-of-2-Apple-Macintosh-Keyboards-M0110A-1-27607292.html

4 m0115 - currently at $11 5 days left

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lot-of-4-Apple-ADB-Extended-Keyboards-M0115-1-27606370.html

TRS 80 - $11  1 day left no bids so far

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/VTG-Radio-Shack-TRS-80-Color-Computer-2-Keyboard-27499911.html

F122 27598022(1986) $5 6 days left

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/IBM-Model-F-Computer-Keyboard-ID-No-R9726---1986-27598022.html
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:47:51
Any more discussion related to buying and selling will be removed.  Please maintain these types of discussion within the Classifieds subforum.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 17:14:45
Any more discussion related to buying and selling will be removed.  Please maintain these types of discussion within the Classifieds subforum.

Thanks!


Sorry figured it was allowed since alps !
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 10 February 2016, 17:16:12
Note: don’t use purple text on Geekhack. It’s entirely unreadable for anyone who uses the default black-background style.

Edit: if you need to use a color, orange is okay. Not ideal on a light background, but still readable on the common themes. Pink is a bit worse but still barely readable. (The rest of the colors are all completely worthless.) Just sticking to the default color is best overall though.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 10 February 2016, 17:17:50
Note: don’ use purple text on Geekhack. It’s entirely unreadable for anyone who uses the default black-background style.

Or one of the ~60 people using the orange theme.  :))

(http://i.imgur.com/EqBUjQE.png)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:05:23
Any more discussion related to buying and selling will be removed.  Please maintain these types of discussion within the Classifieds subforum.

Thanks!


Sorry figured it was allowed since alps !
Was not directed at you, sorry for the confusion.


Sorry about my purple text, I'll make sure to choose something else next time :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:08:48
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Romevi, you should also consider the V60 or V80 with Matias quiet click. I really think that switch is underrated.

Salmon Alps are NOTHING like MX browns xD . They're very nice switches, to date possibly the ones I type on fastest.

I don't know, I got rid of mine pretty quickly. I apparently didn't have the same experience with them as others have so I wonder if my board was in bad condition. More testing is needed but I stick by my opinion until then XD.

Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:12:00


Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Romevi, you should also consider the V60 or V80 with Matias quiet click. I really think that switch is underrated.

I considered that too, but wasn't sure if I should get vintage Alps or Matias first.

Plus, the Vintage boards seem to be better on my wallet, but I have been itching to try a 60% Alps...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:20:30



Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Romevi, you should also consider the V60 or V80 with Matias quiet click. I really think that switch is underrated.

I considered that too, but wasn't sure if I should get vintage Alps or Matias first.

Plus, the Vintage boards seem to be better on my wallet, but I have been itching to try a 60% Alps...

Romevi,

I second the V60 or V80, idea. I used the V80 today, so it is fresh in my mind.

Why didn't you like Browns?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:32:01





Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?

Romevi, you should also consider the V60 or V80 with Matias quiet click. I really think that switch is underrated.

I considered that too, but wasn't sure if I should get vintage Alps or Matias first.

Plus, the Vintage boards seem to be better on my wallet, but I have been itching to try a 60% Alps...

Romevi,

I second the V60 or V80, idea. I used the V80 today, so it is fresh in my mind.

Why didn't you like Browns?


WAY too light. Almost linear, and I prefer heavier switches for linear.

Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:43:41
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?

Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter :P
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:44:55
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?

Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter
Hasu really are awesome!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:48:17

Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?

Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter :P

Yeah not with the stock controller. If you use Hasu's USB to USB then you have to find a different key to act as the fn key as the fn key will not register..
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:49:01
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?

Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter

That's right! I keep forgetting about about that. God bless hasu.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:50:07

Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?

Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter

Yeah not with the stock controller. If you use Hasu's USB to USB then you have to find a different key to act as the fn key as the fn key will not register..

And...crap. The Fn key was vital. Don't suppose I can bypass this some other way?


Eh. Maybe I'll just see if I can get a custom Alps TKL and put Matias Quiet Click.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:52:55

Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?

Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter

That's right! I keep forgetting about about that. God bless hasu.

Also on the brown comparison to Matias QC switch.

The brown actuates in the upper middle of the travel, so the light feeling you talk about is probably all the travel prior to the actuation point, once you cross it, it also seems light.

The Matias QC actuates at almost the top of the travel so it feels heavier due to that and then the rest of the travel feels slightly lighter with a cushioned bottom out feeling..

That is my opinion on clicking both at the same time with different hands same finger. So it would depend on exactly what about the light feeling you did not like.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:54:44


Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?

Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter

Yeah not with the stock controller. If you use Hasu's USB to USB then you have to find a different key to act as the fn key as the fn key will not register..

And...crap. The Fn key was vital. Don't suppose I can bypass this some other way?


Eh. Maybe I'll just see if I can get a custom Alps TKL and put Matias Quiet Click.

Well the fn key will still work to switch the stock alternate layer, but if you program a numpad you would have to map a different one for that.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:33:00
I think I saw a post about the clueboard store opening. Does anyone have experience with the clueboard pcbs?
I like the form factor, but I honestly wanted my alps project to be hand wired.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:37:12

I think I saw a post about the clueboard store opening. Does anyone have experience with the clueboard pcbs?
I like the form factor, but I honestly wanted my alps project to be hand wired.

Yes, it just opened. He already sold out of stock in hand for the pcb. What are you wanting to know about it?

I may or may not know as I asked a few questions before ordering..
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:38:34

I think I saw a post about the clueboard store opening. Does anyone have experience with the clueboard pcbs?
I like the form factor, but I honestly wanted my alps project to be hand wired.

Yes, it just opened. He already sold out of stock in hand for the pcb. What are you wanting to know about it?

I may or may not know as I asked a few questions before ordering..
Just overall quality, and is it programmable?
Title: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:41:38

I think I saw a post about the clueboard store opening. Does anyone have experience with the clueboard pcbs?
I like the form factor, but I honestly wanted my alps project to be hand wired.

Yes, it just opened. He already sold out of stock in hand for the pcb. What are you wanting to know about it?

I may or may not know as I asked a few questions before ordering..
Just overall quality, and is it programmable?

From the accounts I have seen, it is of good quality. But this is second hand, I can report back once I receive mine. The board is programmable it uses TMK firmware.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 00:06:15
Skullydazed has a great looking PCB and compatibility with aftermarket FC660M cases. I'd try one if I didn't already buy three Alps64 boards...
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Thu, 11 February 2016, 00:14:57
Skullydazed has a great looking PCB and compatibility with aftermarket FC660M cases. I'd try one if I didn't already buy three Alps64 boards...

Link? Is that the Clue board mentioned above?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 07:04:54
Skullydazed has a great looking PCB and compatibility with aftermarket FC660M cases. I'd try one if I didn't already buy three Alps64 boards...

Link? Is that the Clue board mentioned above?

Yeah sorry. shop.clueboard.co
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ctm on Thu, 11 February 2016, 07:39:52
Skullydazed has a great looking PCB and compatibility with aftermarket FC660M cases. I'd try one if I didn't already buy three Alps64 boards...

Link? Is that the Clue board mentioned above?

Yeah sorry. shop.clueboard.co
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 07:55:14
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?

It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ctm on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:31:27
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?

It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:40:03
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?

It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
Damn this is awesome!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:40:12
That Clueboard looks perfect! I finally have a reason to get a Leopold-type board for a type of switch I haven't tried. Will probably get Matias Quiet.

Is it new? Any news on a restock?

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:41:43
That Clueboard looks perfect! I finally have a reason to get a Leopold-type board for a type of switch I haven't tried. Will probably get Matias Quiet.

Is it new? Any news on a restock?

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask.

Not really sure about their stock and incoming stock but they've got a subforum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=183.0) where I'm sure the answer you'd get would be accurate.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: romevi on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:42:31
That Clueboard looks perfect! I finally have a reason to get a Leopold-type board for a type of switch I haven't tried. Will probably get Matias Quiet.

Is it new? Any news on a restock?

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask.

Not really sure about their stock and incoming stock but they've got a subforum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=183.0) where I'm sure the answer you'd get would be accurate.

Ah, thanks!
Sorry to derail. :D
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:44:20
Ah, thanks!
Sorry to derail. :D

It's not a derailment as much as trying to get you accurate information from the vendor himself :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:02:06
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?

It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.

What? Justification to get another keyboard? 😉
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:02:16
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?

It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.

You stop!
Find a way to justify, there is always room for... one more.

I want to build another, and the only way for me to justify is alps.
I have none, and need one.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:03:12
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?

It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.

You stop!
Find a way to justify, there is always room for... one more.

I want to build another, and the only way for me to justify is alps.
I have none, and need one.
I have one or more. I need one more.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:04:50
That Clueboard looks perfect! I finally have a reason to get a Leopold-type board for a type of switch I haven't tried. Will probably get Matias Quiet.

Is it new? Any news on a restock?

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask.

Not really sure about their stock and incoming stock but they've got a subforum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=183.0) where I'm sure the answer you'd get would be accurate.

Ah, thanks!
Sorry to derail. :D

You could also hop on IRC and look for skullY ;) you know, talk keyboards, talk Clueboards, etc.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: JonnyPolygon on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:09:41
I recently found an old alps keyboard in some of my old stuff, going to give it a good cleaning and post some pics
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: njbair on Thu, 11 February 2016, 10:11:34
I recently picked up a Northgate OmniKey on Ebay. It's very yellow and very dirty. But it's an absolute tank! I'm thinking about leaning it against my bedpost as a weapon to swing at intruders.

(http://i.imgur.com/R1F9rAo.jpg)

It's also got a surprisingly usable primary cluster layout. Notice the split right shift, Esc in the alpha cluster, Ctrl in the Caps Lock position.

If I'm going to restore this thing it's going to require a lot of elbow grease. I'll eventually make the time for it, but part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard, like an oversized 60% with the F-keys on the left. Can someone talk me out of it? It would be a cool board, but a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: chyros on Thu, 11 February 2016, 10:34:04
I recently picked up a Northgate OmniKey on Ebay. It's very yellow and very dirty. But it's an absolute tank! I'm thinking about leaning it against my bedpost as a weapon to swing at intruders.
The back panel on one weighs more than a frying pan, I found out when I did the video on mine. You can kill intruders with just the backpanel xD .

[/quote]If I'm going to restore this thing it's going to require a lot of elbow grease. I'll eventually make the time for it, but part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard, like an oversized 60% with the F-keys on the left. Can someone talk me out of it? It would be a cool board, but a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.
[/quote]Ugh, what is everyone's aversion to classic boards nowadays? :p Even though these Omnikeys are not exactly lookers, surely they deserve better than that xD .
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 11 February 2016, 12:03:30
The back panel on one weighs more than a frying pan, I found out when I did the video on mine. You can kill intruders with just the backpanel xD .

Or maybe fry an egg on it?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: ctm on Thu, 11 February 2016, 13:02:52
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?

It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.

You stop!
Find a way to justify, there is always room for... one more.

I want to build another, and the only way for me to justify is alps.
I have none, and need one.
This does not work in my case. I already have an alps board. But… I don't have any linear alps board and Matias linear feels really nice. This is a good justification but I am already broke aafter buying F62 :(
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Yoe on Thu, 11 February 2016, 13:40:20
I recently picked up a Northgate OmniKey on Ebay. It's very yellow and very dirty. But it's an absolute tank! I'm thinking about leaning it against my bedpost as a weapon to swing at intruders.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/R1F9rAo.jpg)


It's also got a surprisingly usable primary cluster layout. Notice the split right shift, Esc in the alpha cluster, Ctrl in the Caps Lock position.

If I'm going to restore this thing it's going to require a lot of elbow grease. I'll eventually make the time for it, but part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard, like an oversized 60% with the F-keys on the left. Can someone talk me out of it? It would be a cool board, but a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.

It doesn't have to go to waste! You can just.. "borrow" the caps and stabs for a while and make a 60% board. Then, if you don't like it, just put the caps back and enjoy the Omnikey in its vintage glory. I know I would. These random "don't use very often" keys among the modifiers are just screaming TAP KEY FUNCTION LAYER!! :)
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 11 February 2016, 16:02:56
Inn trying to put my M0116 back together and the spacebar keeps binding. I figured out that the stab wire is causing it. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 February 2016, 16:18:19

part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard,

a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.


You would be hard-pressed to find a better keyboard than an Omnikey, only the Model F comes to mind for solidity. If you can live with the split Right Shift, then just use it. Bigass Enter does not bother me, but it usually comes with 1x Backspace and I cannot tolerate that.

Unfortunately, I have had little success Retro-briting Northgate keys, although I have gotten the cases to lighten up pretty well.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 17:26:09
Inn trying to put my M0116 back together and the spacebar keeps binding. I figured out that the stab wire is causing it. Any suggestions?
I broke my enter keys on my board I don't know how to remove the stabilized keys its tarder than costar stabs
I recently picked up a Northgate OmniKey on Ebay. It's very yellow and very dirty. But it's an absolute tank! I'm thinking about leaning it against my bedpost as a weapon to swing at intruders.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/R1F9rAo.jpg)


It's also got a surprisingly usable primary cluster layout. Notice the split right shift, Esc in the alpha cluster, Ctrl in the Caps Lock position.

If I'm going to restore this thing it's going to require a lot of elbow grease. I'll eventually make the time for it, but part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard, like an oversized 60% with the F-keys on the left. Can someone talk me out of it? It would be a cool board, but a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.
What switch bro?
Its really that solid? How much does it weight?
I recently found an old alps keyboard in some of my old stuff, going to give it a good cleaning and post some pics
Cmon snap some pic already!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 February 2016, 17:34:33

What switch bro?


Pretty much all Northgate Omnikeys are complicated white Alps except for the very earliest ones with gold foil label, which are blues.
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 17:35:37

What switch bro?


Pretty much all Northgate Omnikeys are complicated white Alps except for the very earliest ones with gold foil label, which are blues.
Blue alps on those case must be really geod!
Title: Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 February 2016, 18:23:48

What switch bro?


Pretty much all Northgate Omnikeys are complicated white Alps except for the very earliest ones with gold foil label, which are blues.
Blue alps on those case must be really geod!