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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: heavyzobech on Thu, 12 June 2014, 11:55:57

Title: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: heavyzobech on Thu, 12 June 2014, 11:55:57
Hey everybody,

Got my CMStorm QFR for a while, and as anybody who started typing on mech keyboards, I HAVE TO UPGRADE/PIMP IT!

The main issue is... I'm Swiss (french part), and I got used to write with a Swiss Layout. My QFR has a german layout (which is more or less the same layout except for the french accents and for the special signs).
I was wondering if, aside of WASD keyboards and its ABS custom keycaps, there were other options - like, say, someone who makes custom doubleshot PBT keycaps with OEM profile?  ;D

When I ask for options, I mean ANY options, even if it has to cost 200$ for a 88keyset - I'm just trying to understand how hard it is to get swiss layouts for mechanical keyboards... and, well, maybe a more seasoned Swissman will launch a group buy one day ?  :D

And, yes, I'll create a new post later about the layouts I'm drawing to show them and get some condescending comments regarding my tastes about fonts and stuff  :blank:
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 12 June 2014, 12:11:03
New doubleshots won't happen. Dyesubs.. maybe, but it'll cost you a lot. The best option, however, is some old doubleshots from a Cherry G80/G81-3000HAC. The C in HAC means Swiss layout.

I think Ascaii over at DT still has one for sale here (http://deskthority.net/for-sale-f55/selling-off-my-collection-t7031-60.html#p161950). You will need to replace the ctrl, alt, windows, menu, spacebar and caps lock keys, since the originals won't fit your QFR. You can get these in the form of a GMK moogle kit, which should be fairly easy to find.

Oh, also, welcome to geekhack!
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: clickity on Fri, 14 August 2015, 02:26:00
Hey, Swiss, relatively new, lookig for good keycaps here :)

Sorry to wake up the zombie thread but... did you have any luck with your quest for good CH layout caps ? They are so damn hard to find !

And also, there is this Facebook group... https://www.facebook.com/groups/413271138854299/members/

There's literally *not even* dozens of us ! ;)
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 14 August 2015, 09:57:48
Same thing still holds true for the moment, look for old Cherry models in Swiss.
Now that ISO is available from Gateron, I will be offering some hard to find layout like Swiss as dyesub in the near future.
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: clickity on Fri, 18 September 2015, 08:34:01
Hey, Swiss dyesub set would be awesome !

Where should I watch in order not to miss it ?
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 01 November 2015, 10:41:21
Right now there are some international DSA sets on sale on massdrop plus ISO kids. They are immediately available because they are left overs. After that, get a standard dsa set from pimp my keyboard.
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: Red392 on Tue, 05 May 2020, 12:43:59
Hi there! I'm bumping the Ol'zombie thread because I am very VERY eager to know of any development in the matter of swiss layout.

Are old cherry keyboards still the only source of good keycaps?

Any good board recomendation?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: Polymer on Tue, 05 May 2020, 20:59:13
Hey, Swiss, relatively new, lookig for good keycaps here :)

Sorry to wake up the zombie thread but... did you have any luck with your quest for good CH layout caps ? They are so damn hard to find !

And also, there is this Facebook group... https://www.facebook.com/groups/413271138854299/members/

There's literally *not even* dozens of us ! ;)

Too bad I didn't see that when I was living in Lausanne....
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 06 May 2020, 19:37:34
Hi there! I'm bumping the Ol'zombie thread because I am very VERY eager to know of any development in the matter of swiss layout.

Are old cherry keyboards still the only source of good keycaps?

Any good board recomendation?

Thanks!

This isn't a definitive answer by any means, since I don't keep up with every new keycap offering/GB. So please take what I say with a pinch of salt, and hopefully someone will suggest something I'm unaware of.

From what I gather, your only options for 'readily available' Swiss keycaps would be a custom set from WASDkeyboards (https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/swiss-developer-keyboard-by-andrew-magerman-88-key-iso-custom-cherry-mx-keycap-set.html) (just an example - you can design your own) or a backlit set from MAXkeyboard (https://www.maxkeyboard.com/iso-layout-custom-backlight-cherry-mx-keycap-set-top-print.html). I don't think anyone here would try and claim these keycaps are great though. They'll do the job, but they're not the best.

In regards to more "high quality" keysets like GMK, MT3, etc. it's very easy to find an ISO set, but I haven't seen a single set with Swiss layout support. It's understandable, since ISO alone gets less attention than ANSI, nevermind specific regional layouts. Swiss, as I'm sure you know, is far more niche than German or French as well. So, as far as high quality keysets go, you're still pretty much limited to original Cherry. I'm going to post a few examples I know of below to give you an idea of the variants. These are incredibly rare in Swiss layout though, so don't expect to find one quickly (or for a cheap price).

Thick, doubleshot ABS (first letter H) :

G80-3036HAC (https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=10990)
G80-3036HAMCH (pictured with Russian stickers which are not a part of the original keyboard) (https://imgur.com/a/vE5yebW)
G80-3000HAC (https://i.imgur.com/7a6REox.jpg)

Thick, dyesub PBT, my personal favourite (first letter S) :

G81-3077SAC (https://deskthority.net/wiki/images/thumb/7/75/G81-3077-SAC_--_Top_view.jpg/800px-G81-3077-SAC_--_Top_view.jpg)
G81-3081SAC (https://i.redd.it/3whp712ir1t01.jpg)

To boil it down to 2 rules :

You're looking for article numbers which contain either G80 or G81 at the start. This corresponds to MX or MY switches respectively. The keycaps used for MY keyboards are MX compatible (winkey layout has non-compatible modifiers, but that's unimportant for the Swiss layout keys).

For article numbers with 3 letters following the 4 digit number, you're looking for the last letter to be C e.g G80-3000HAC. For article numbers with 5 letters following the 4 digit number, you're looking for the last 2 letters to be CH e.g G80-3036HAMCH. These letters dictate the layout, and C/CH specifies Swiss layout.
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: Red392 on Sun, 10 May 2020, 14:33:41
Thank you SO much for this awesome answer, I'm on the lookout for the S*C versions then!

Awesome help you gave me there,  I'll keep you updated on what I find!
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 10 May 2020, 19:39:55
Thank you SO much for this awesome answer, I'm on the lookout for the S*C versions then!

Awesome help you gave me there,  I'll keep you updated on what I find!
Best of luck with your search, I'll try and keep my eye out for you as well.

I've gotta warn you though: really, I can't understate just how rare these Swiss ones are. I'd temper your expectations, there's a chance it'll take you a long time to find a set.
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: marshskitow on Sat, 16 May 2020, 19:14:16
Heyyy! I have the exact same problem! Welcome in switzerland  :thumb:

Other tips, Tai hao is about to do an FULL international PBT keyset
Check this out : https://www.instagram.com/p/B_U56miH6Mn/

There is also kprepublic who is doing a CH kit.
You'll find it at : https://kprepublic.com/collections/pbt-dye-sub-keycaps

Haard to be a swiss keyboard builder

Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: tr on Mon, 18 May 2020, 02:36:31
Thanks for sharing, marshskitow!

Really good news.

As a newbie to the scene - let me ask;
What is the best way to get those sets to switzerland, especially the one from tai-hao? massdrop?
Maybe we compatriots could set up some kind of group buy?

Greetings from the bernese oberland

t
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: ullr on Mon, 18 May 2020, 13:29:16
I recommend DSA Granite and DSA HC Granite as well if you don't mind mono legends. You can turn the colon key on its side for an Umlaut. It's just missing the section sign, but since that key is in the Escape position for a smaller keyboard that won't be a problem unless you prefer at least 75%.
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: marshskitow on Tue, 19 May 2020, 10:15:09
Thanks for sharing, marshskitow!

Really good news.

As a newbie to the scene - let me ask;
What is the best way to get those sets to switzerland, especially the one from tai-hao? massdrop?
Maybe we compatriots could set up some kind of group buy?

Greetings from the bernese oberland

t

Well from tai hao you can order straight from their store. Shippement fee gonna be low i think.
The CH set is not out, they said to stay tuned. Gonna be release soon i guess.
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: Neutral on Fri, 05 June 2020, 02:33:16
Well from tai hao you can order straight from their store. Shippement fee gonna be low i think.
The CH set is not out, they said to stay tuned. Gonna be release soon i guess.

Hi, news here, after see you message here i check Tai Hao (but for command after send message a Tai Hao, it's on Drop.com) ->

https://drop.com/buy/95148  - Tai-Hao Exotic Layout PBT Doubleshot Keycap Set - ISO CH aviable! 50 copies for each proposed region (only).

I preorder my set.. wait and see.. and ty for message ^^
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: marshskitow on Sat, 06 June 2020, 17:53:48
Ty you mate, i already pre order some on the first two hours ^^ I was ready for it ahah.  :p
But now it doesnt fix nothing. They do that only once a year so now we have one set with one color, we should try to know if we can also have good looking sets.


I wonder if we can have answeers from people who does project like GMK, KAT, EPBT etc... I mean we should ask them if there is any chance they can add new kits (Or add few key on NORDE).
Looks like the tai hao sets had a lot of orders so there is customers. And since they produce only if there is orders, they will not have unsaled products.

Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: tr on Tue, 23 June 2020, 00:11:43
I skipped the Tai-Hao set for now and ordered a low-cost set. More appropriate for me, being a freshman  :thumb:

While shopping the GMMK Barebone I found the Glorious ISO-CH keyset listed as accessory for a good price (CHF22.-, normal price). It's a ABS, 105key set with some specific labeling for the GMMK. The look is discreet (black with translucent grey lettering) and fits my CAD-Workplace perfectly. I can't really say something to quality, since I lack of possibilities to compare. From an industrial point of view the quality is not perfect but thats really a detail. More of a downer, for me personally, is the incoherent design (mixture of font sizes, big media symbols on F-row, secondary functions labeled in capitals...). Because the labeling is not obtrusive and I don't use the backlight (which keeps the letters even more "stealth") I can easily live with it.

Overall a good keyset to start with! And it's easy to get, even here in switzerland.
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: marshskitow on Tue, 30 June 2020, 14:09:20
Hey, yeah you can go for that for the moment, for a first keyboard you'll be fine.
You'll see however, the print on the keys disapear sometime with time. Also it gets shiny. And the sound as well.

But for now it's a pain in the *ss to get good PBT keycaps in swiss layout anyway. So you'll have this keyboard and getting ready if they come up with pbt swiss layout in the future.

Don't forget to show me the result of your keyboard  :) And what switches did you choose ?
Title: Re: Swiss ISO Layout : what are my options?
Post by: tr on Wed, 01 July 2020, 06:52:50
(https://i.ibb.co/qFpr8c1/20200616-105609-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qFpr8c1)

Here you go - my first mech at all. Very happy about the package. I got myself the GMMK fullsize barebone and the mentioned keyset. The money I didn't spend on fancy caps went directly into switches. Since I'm new I had no preference. So after some reading and good advice in another forum (hi shi  :thumb:) I decided to try various switches and got silent blacks, silent reds and clears - enough of every type to get a feeling and decide later on wheter I prefer linear light, linear heavy or tactile.

I got the board now for two weeks, blacks mounted. Couldn't find time yet to try the other switches, but I am really looking forward to!