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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: limitz on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:56:47

Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:56:47
Let's hear them.

I'll start off.

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

2. I think HHKB boards are overrated, and the layout dumber than a Poker. I think custom MX, HHKB layout boards are just as stupid (Viper, Happy).

3. I think Topre is overrated, and lower quality than MX (despite the higher price) as the board tends to get stiffer over time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: munch on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:06:07
3 and 2 I mostly agree with... but the layout of HHKB is sort of personal preference. I personally don't like it.
60% boards + numpad is the way to go in regards to #1 IMO. then you get arrow keys + other keys for productivity, and numbers if you are into that.
and you can just put it away if you need the space more. but the main reason I guess is because I have my mouse + kb quite close to one another, and prefer space on the right side of the kb.
so it just feels nicer on the left side.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fragil1ty on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:15:30
3 and 2 I mostly agree with... but the layout of HHKB is sort of personal preference. I personally don't like it.
60% boards + numpad is the way to go in regards to #1 IMO. then you get arrow keys + other keys for productivity, and numbers if you are into that.
and you can just put it away if you need the space more. but the main reason I guess is because I have my mouse + kb quite close to one another, and prefer space on the right side of the kb.
so it just feels nicer on the left side.


1. I cannot stand 60% boards either, I don't think they look attractive what so ever and although using a HHKB was an enjoyable experience, I couldn't ever use it as my daily driver.


2. I don't like TKL boards, I think they're too big, but I'm currently forcing myself to change because of bad past experiences with 75% boards.


3. I don't think the HHKB is over-rated per say, but I do think they're a bit overpriced.


4. I cannot stand blank keycaps, I think they are a waste of money and just do not look that appealing/attractive to me. (I'm currently using Leopold stealth keys, side printed keycaps essentially and I can only just tolerate using these).


5. I think a lot of these esc key replacements, the gas masks, the helmets and all that kind of stuff are just repulsive and why someone would want to put that on their keyboard in the first place is beyond me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:25:43
Yes, the HHKB layout is definitely a personal preference. It's not for everyone. While I love the layout, some people can never get used to it.

But as to Topre getting stiffer over time, what evidence do you have of that happening? Have you used a Topre over a period of years and measured the force curve over a long time span?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keymaster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:09:29
60% keyboards aren't practical, even with the programmable layers. I liken it to people who build their linux distros "from the ground up". They're just senselessly creating a rabbit hole of unnecessary work.

Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

Any mixing of keycap sets or keycap material is blasphemous. Also, the keyboards with entire rows of artisan keycaps. Offenders should be taken out and shot.

Topre is not overrated. 55g feels delicious as ****, but they could get tiresome when using for hours on end.



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: connorelsea on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:17:00
Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

And art is just chemicals on a canvas!  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:43:10

I had some more, but they're less about keyboards and more about how people treat keyboards and caps.  And this is unpopular opinions, so I expect a fair amount of disagreement.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Puddsy on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:49:30
I hate the HHKB
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:54:36
1. Just about every keycap set designed on pimpmykeyboard is ugly. When I see pictures of these keycaps on someones keyboards looks even worse.

2. SA keyset is horrible to type on and looks horrible.

3. I think model M and any other so called "vintage" keyboard is stupid.

4. If you think 60% keyboards are not practical well 40% are even worse. They seem like a major handicap.

5. I hate gamer looking or branded keyboards (razer, corsair, logitech, ect.)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:55:02
traditional qwerty sgg :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheesedgrate on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:56:42
Not a huge fan of the Vader Clack.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: connorelsea on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:57:50
3D printed caps look bad. Topre switches are glorified rubber domes. The Poker 2 is really ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: calvinhousecat on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:18:56
Filco and Das are stupidly overpriced.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:31:50
Wow, what a hatefest. Let's join in.  ;)

HHKB layout - not for me, I couldn't get used that arrow layout.
Topre - also not for me, I don't like the feeling and I don't like that I can't change the feeling through mods. I think all Topre boards are overpriced. From a production perspective, MX boards require more work since the switches and diodes need to be soldered. So the extra cost is not justified, IMHO.
Model M - okay, but just okay, F is better. 2KRO is a bit of a deal breaker - membranes, yuck. Personally still prefer MX ErgoClears, though.
75% boards - why bother, you have to get used to a really funky layout and it's impossible to find replacement keycap sets. Still have to move your hand to reach F keys and arrows, may as well stick with TKL.

On the other hand:

60% boards - love them, especially when they are fully programmable like the GON NerD60 or have a really well designed Fn layer like the original Pure. Poker II style programmability is acceptable if you don't mind about the Fn and Pn key placement. Not having to move your hands so much to access F keys, arrows, edits, etc can be a boon to productivity if the Fn layer suits you and you take a little time to get used to it.
SA profile - love it, currently my favourite with Cherry coming 2nd.
Gaming boards - I'm allergic to the "gamer" marketing speak and overhype, but I'd consider a "gamer" board if it had all the features I wanted at a decent price and was made by a company with a good track record for reliability and support.
Smooth keycaps - I don't mind them, but it's nicer if I've worn them down myself. Gives a board some character, I like to see well-used products.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tribade on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:35:53
Gaming-branded keyboards are terrible.  Poker 2 looks terrible and I don't like the layout (I do like the HHKB layout though...I don't know I guess I'm weird).  Ducky/Das/Max keyboards are all ugly as sin.  As are Datamancer keyboards.  Model Ms are great keyboards, but they're ugly, and that includes SSKs and industrial versions of both.  75% boards are the worst form factor I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: neun_sechs_zwei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:47:10
Why don't more keyboard nerds use Kinesises?

Looking forward to my first 60%. I use arrow keys often enough, especially highlighting text with modifier keys in regular use, that I wonder what I'll do. Probably try WASD on left hand.

Or use the mouse I guess. (double-click + drag to select words is awfully fast)

There are also ctrl-A,E,T,N,P and other ways of moving around.

And editors that don't use arrow keys. (But dammit if you can't get a mouse working with them in this day and age...)

Is that all unpopular enough? ha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:48:18
1. I think that Cherry MX switches are much too loud to be of any real use to me, and am surprised so few other people feel like this (if I can't use it at work or in the living room, there is no point in having them).

2. I do not like the look of keyboards with many colors and many artisan keycaps.

3. I do not like the layout of the HHKB or practically any <80% keyboard. I think they look great but am not interested in using them (bought one for the looks but was frustrated with it)

4. Numpad layers on tenkeyless are underrated and are something I consider an essential feature that is often ignored. If you get used to it, it as as effective as having a numpad, yet people call it useless all the time.

5. I do not get how anyone can like blank keycaps. I am extremely comfortable typing anything without legends. However, take my fingers of the home-row and I have no clue. Which means that typing while eating a sandwich for example, is a hassle. I figure that if that goes for me, there is a good chance that this is true for others regardless of them being able to touch type any symbol or number on the keyboard.

6. I love the feel of Topre and easily prefer them over any Cherry MX even if they are overpriced. Rubber-dome is like a bad word, but personally I do not care as much (or at all) about the exact mechanic as I care about how it feels.

7. I like the feel of smooth shiny ABS better than PBT

8. I do not see the point of white or beige ABS cases as they will look like crap (discoloration) in just a few years.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:58:44
1. abs keys aren't worth buying

2. hhkb layout is beyond stupid retarded.  especially the ctrl key that should actually be a backspace
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: neun_sechs_zwei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 02:08:19
I also think Poker looks terrible... if you're gonna put arrow keys in a 60% board what's the point?  (edit... er, whatever, the other one with the arrow keys)

Along the same lines... ctrl-alt-win/win-alt-pc-ctrl is a waste of space. Bottom row filled out with 1.25X keys is ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AuRinBei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 02:42:29
Topre is overrated as hell, especially on GH. The main issue is that they are so freaking inconsistent. Two supposedly identical boards can feel totally different, and even switches on the same board can feel totally different. I have a 40g switch on my 55g board. What the **** is that ****? This thing cost over $200, and you can't get the tolerance below +/- 15g? I've had 3 Topre boards, and all have had this problem. Also, despite the superior plunger design, the keycap stems aren't as uniform as in most MX keycaps. This leads to some keys sounding different on the upstroke. Topre keyboards still sexy as hell though.

Browns are the worst switch. They are just awful. I guess that opinion is not that unpopular around here though.

I don't get how a 45-50g actuation force became the standard weight that everyone wants. I can't not bottom out on anything that light. I wish they made a 75g Topre.

ABS is totally worthless outside of novelty keycaps. I don't get how anyone can try PBT or POM and then stand going back to ABS. I'm not interested in 99% of group buys because they're all ABS.

DSA profile is the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life. Not keycap profile, thing.

Mechanical keyboards aren't that much more durable than rubber domes. Every rubber dome I have has seen more use than any of my mechanical keyboards, and they all work fine. In fact, most rubber dome keyboards have better keycaps than most stock mechanical keyboards.

Scissor switches are great. I prefer them for gaming to anything other than MX Blacks. They are more tactile than Browns. I prefer laptop "chiclet" style keyboards to any other non-mechanical.

Brobots are 10x cooler than Clacks.

I will not put a set of keycaps on my keyboard if the "capslock" key says capslock. That isn't where capslock goes, that's where control goes, and anything that says different is a lie. Vague symbols are acceptable.

Windows keys are borderline essential to if you use windows. I have never hit it while playing games either, probably because my pinky has no reason to be down there because that's not where control is.

Fullsize keyboards are useless. Get a numpad and put it on the left. No functionality is lost, and you can now operate arrow keys and number keys at the same time easily.

Every keyboard should have a function key on the left hand bottom row that turns WASD into arrow keys. The bottom row should be windows, function, alt. Caps should be fn+ctrl.

The FC660C looks baller as hell. One of the best looking keyboards I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ajx on Fri, 07 November 2014, 02:46:51
I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software, yes i can call it unpractical
Form my use, i find them perfect if manufacturer implemented logical and accessible dedicated arrows
The winners are Pure Pro, Pure,  FC660C, Minila, each one of them has some downsides especially for the layout (most of them has non standard layout)
Poker II is really popular despite of lacking logical dedicated arrows but people focus more on its standard layout/overall build though
Plus being fully programmable can help into their success
But its came in last in my own preference:
- 60% is sort of compromise between accessibility and compactness, Sacrificing either numpad or F-keys could be acceptable for some people, but going over all these limitations, nah i can't
Lets me take an example, i get used to type on my Pure, of course, always enabling fn key for numbers keys or F-keys would irritate me a bit, but i can access arrows keys through fn+spacebar which enable for good these arrows keys (fn+space again=disabled)
Its a sort of compromise for me
Minila, FC660C, Pure Pro owners don't even need to pay attention into it, they have directly arrows keys like any TKL
To sum up, a good 60% keyboard certainly needs to have logical and accessible arrows keys which isnt the case of Poker II
My dreamed 60% would be a mix of Poker II build and Pure/Pure Pro arrows keys (not really fan of Pure Pro layout but it has arrows keys)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 07 November 2014, 03:34:17
I forgot to mention:

Standard QWERTY layout keyboards in general - horizontal stagger design is to allow levers to reach the hammer mechanism. QWERTY character layout is to prevent neighbouring keys being pressed too rapidly in succession and jamming the gravity returned hammers.... Oh wait.. WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS ANY MORE. Yet the design has persisted, due to being familiar. It's not logical, it's not comfortable or ergonomic, it's not even symmetrical or aesthetic. The ONLY reason to use it is familiarity. When the only reason you still do something a certain way is tradition, it's time to make a change, based on more current requirements.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jevvix on Fri, 07 November 2014, 04:37:54
1. MX Brown/clear switches are worse than linear switches, and that's saying a lot because...
2. Linear switches are an unpleasant experience and they shouldn't exist.
3. Topre is overpriced and over hyped.
4. ABS as a keycap material is fine, even more so if they're doubleshot.
5. Full sized keyboards are the best.
6. "They don't make them like they used to." The standard build quality on vintage keyboards is better than 95% of the crap being mass produced today.
7. I'd rather have a CMStorm QFR than your $800 Korean TLK 'custom' riced-out kawaii whatever.

Bring on the hate ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 07:03:49
1. Dedicated arrow keys are essential.
2. Numpad is essential.
3. Mouse/keyboard problems exist because of the mouse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 07:19:05
SA sucks. I freaking hate it.
People say the following:
"It's the retro bomb!", "It's the future of profiles" pick one, you can't have both
"It looks awesome"...except on 40% or 60% boards or even larger boards with low profile cases.  That's a lot of keyboards.
"It's ergonomically superior"...except for all of the people who type slower on it, experience more finger fatigue, or just generally find typing on it annoying and unpleasant. Also theories abound on it actually being intended for angled beam springs and not even for the 0 degree mounted MX switches we are putting them on.
"This GB will be SA"...just like the last 10.  Oh yay my favorite 5 words.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: skuko on Fri, 07 November 2014, 07:46:03
yeah i don't like SA either.

i tried the filco sphericals and had to remove them, because i started having wrist pains due to the unnatural angle, because the caps are too damn high :)

a wrist rest partially alleviates this, but it's just additional clutter on the table i don't really need, so i'll stick to my cherry profile thick PBT caps without the need of a wristrest.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 07 November 2014, 07:48:37
Cherry G80s are amazing to type on

Flex due to no plate or a bendy plate isn't always a bad thing

Dedicated arrow keys are absolutely necessary
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Roibhilin on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:10:38
- people often forget that.
coffee is just bean water. tea is just leaf water
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:24:01
1. DSA is terrible. I hate using it, and won't buy from any group buys with DSA profile.

2. SA profile (sculptured, not uniform) is fun! They are my second favorite, after Cherry Corp or GMK thick ABS.

3. PBT is all hype. I prefer thick ABS by a wide margin. I can use PBT, of course, but I prefer thick ABS. Much, much prefer double shot ABS over dyesub PBT.

4. ErgoClears are just okay, but stock clears are better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:34:35
Where to begin..

1. I hate the HHKB. Way too over priced and over hyped.
2. A board decorated with artisan caps just looks terrible and ugly.
3. Artisan caps in general. Clacks just look ugly.
4. Realforce keyboards look terrible, every single one of them.
5. People going crazy for switch stickers. Doesn't even make a noticeable difference.
6. I can't stand full sized keyboards.
7. 40% boards are just a stupid impractical phase that will pass soon.
8. I hate the Miami look.
9. People who put a bunch of random color caps on their boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:47:26
OK, I'll just rehash the same things I have been saying on this site:

1) Matrix keyboards are fun
2) 1x spacebars are the most space efficient and user friendly
3) relegendables are vital for people who want to try different layouts
4) we need Matrix layout Model Fs
5) Topre is overpriced
6) linear switches are terrible
7) brobots, clacks, gummyrots and whatever weird artisan keycaps are worthless because they bring no utility and interfere with switch actuation
8) expensive Korean customs have no intrinsic superiority to unfashionable keyboard manufacturers
9) that winkeyless layout with 7x spacebar is inferior to a modern layout with win keys and other keys (remember, it is very easy to use autohotkey to map your winkeys to do something else, so why not, that's exactly what I do!)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:57:49
1. The number pad is a good thing, and nice to have as part of the keyboard rather than a standalone unit.
2. Likewise, the full size layout is actually quite nice.
3. Someone should remake some version of the old Key Track trackball keyboard layout: full size with trackball in place of the arrow keys, arrow keys like laptop mouse buttons built into the trackball surround, real mouse buttons at the bottom.
4. Switch covers for enhanced protection against liquids and debris are an awesome feature and should be used more often, especially on really expensive keyboards. The idea of spending hundreds of dollars on a custom keyboard might seem slightly less insane to me if I knew it wouldn't die in the event of an accident with some coffee. 
5. There is such a thing as "too minimal" in case design.
6. If I were, for some reason, going to buy a backlit keyboard, it wouldn't be a Ducky.
7. If I I were going to buy another non-backlit keyboard, it still wouldn't be a Ducky.
8. Artisan keycaps: what is the point? They do not make anything better-looking, better to type on, or better to game with.
9. In general, the appearance of a keyboard isn't that important. Font, in particular, is not worth obsessing over.
10. As enthusiasts, we should be excited about improvements in performance, even if there's no particularly pressing need for the improvement, and even if the improvement is small. After all, getting one extra point in a game, one time, during your entire lifespan, is still better than not getting it...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:59:13
1) I don't like Topre switches. I'll never own a Topre board other than one to tour.
2) I don't like DSA sets and I'll never buy a set.
3) I think most artisan caps look like **** but no one wants to be honest and tell the makers to continue improving their designs/processes. People want exclusive **** and are willing to kiss ass to get it.
4) I think PBT is way way way overhyped and if I could get away from using it, I would.
5) I think printed keycaps look better than blank ones.
6) I always prefer my boards to have the winkey.
7) I think everyone who is into mechanical keyboards should learn how to touch type. It's like being a car enthusiast who can't drive a stick shift. How can you full appreciate the hobby when something so fundamental is missing.
8 ) Looking at yet another beige/grey set makes my eyes sad. I'm tired of lame color schemes. It's not retro or classic or even nostalgic looking, it's bland and boring.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:04:32
1) I don't like Topre switches. I'll never own a Topre board other than one to tour.
novatouch the only? :eek:
OK, I'll just rehash the same things I have been saying on this site:

1) Matrix keyboards are fun
2) 1x spacebars are the most space efficient and user friendly
3) relegendables are vital for people who want to try different layouts
4) we need Matrix layout Model Fs
5) Topre is overpriced
6) linear switches are terrible
7) brobots, clacks, gummyrots and whatever weird artisan keycaps are worthless because they bring no utility and interfere with switch actuation
8) expensive Korean customs have no intrinsic superiority to unfashionable keyboard manufacturers
9) that winkeyless layout with 7x spacebar is inferior to a modern layout with win keys and other keys (remember, it is very easy to use autohotkey to map your winkeys to do something else, so why not, that's exactly what I do!)
matrix are really nice? how you type on it? your hand straight  :rolleyes: i prefer sym sgg for non split
ive seen davkol type on pos kibord looks no prob but someone type on typematrix looks odd
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:05:47
1) I don't like Topre switches. I'll never own a Topre board other than one to tour.
novatouch the only?

I'm getting a Novatouch but I don't really consider that a personal keyboard. I'm merely holding onto it so that the community can try it out. Plus I didn't buy it for me or pay any money.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ConscienceDrop on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:17:41
a) Topre, and its acolyte followers are all disillusion. it feels like a rubber dome (it does make a nice sound i think this is 90% of the reason people like them)

b) full size boards are ugly and none effective

c) PBT caps are amazing and necessary if a keyboard comes with a none standard layout and does not supply PBT caps stock then it CANNOT be bought.

d) The HHKB has that ugly ass tramp stamp on it that totally ruins its design.

e) buckling spring feel and sound like ****. although the start of the key press is very nice the rest is garbage.

f) i don't personally really like artisan caps, but to each their own. however the artisan community seems to be made up 50%/50% really cool people and otherwise **** eating *******s.

g) keyboards are fun and i like them

h) i love all of you
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:19:37
g) keyboards are fun and i like them

h) i love all of you

 :-*   :-*   :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:20:38
1. Keyboards with cables that run underneath in channels suck!  The cable always pops out for no good reason.  I'm not against this method as it helps protect the hub but I haven't seen a good application of the technique yet.

2. IBM M2 > IBM F AT > All other M's.  Sorry, but it's true.

3. 4mm travel distance is way too much - closer to 3.0-3.5 is perfect.

4. Folks who cry like little babby's about rubber domes "oh you type just for a couple days and then the keyboard is mushy!  it's trash - TRASH!" or "I tried a rubber dome and didn't like it - therefore ALL rubberdomes suck - or ALL rubberdomes have poor quality."  That's like me trying a single MX switch on an off brand and suddenly declaring all MX boards as crap.

5. POM plastic is the best plastic.  You are all crazy for thinking otherwise.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:22:35
I'm a conformist ok?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:30:16
Topre is a rubber dome. And those of us that use Topre understand that. There is nothing inherently wrong with rubber domes. Topre uses a capacitive PCB under the dome, with a spring to provide the inductive switching mechanism. That's how it works, and we understand it. It's far, far, far away from a $2 crap dome keyboard with membrane that comes bundled with a PC.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keymaster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:32:35
3) I think most artisan caps look like **** but no one wants to be honest and tell the makers to continue improving their designs/processes. People want exclusive **** and are willing to kiss ass to get it.

some hardcore truth right there
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:42:09
Typing on MX reds is like typing on a cloud of b00bs. 

Typing on Topre is like typing on rubber b00bs.

All others are like typing on dead kittens.

POM keycaps get sweaty and start to feel gross.

Black PBT keycaps often look dark purple.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:42:22
3) I think most artisan caps look like **** but no one wants to be honest and tell the makers to continue improving their designs/processes. People want exclusive **** and are willing to kiss ass to get it.
I think at least with caps like BBs he got it to a point where there weren't any imperfections. That's the main thing I have against CC skulls. Not that I don't think that they're cool lookijg, I just think that he could update the molds every once and a while so there are those obvious imperfections. But I do understand that some cas makers are definitely going for a handmade, artisan feel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Schwarz on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:43:38
I guess some of these opinions aren't that unpopular. Just less heard in the keyboard community...

1) HHKB is overpriced
2) Topre fanboys are getting way too excited about a keyboard that feels like a smoother rubberdome
(I will say I'm in the camp that loves the HHKB layout. It made me change the ctrl/caps lock keys on all my keyboards)

3) Rainbow colored keyboards look cheap and childish
4) Artisan caps, see #3
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:45:37
3) Rainbow colored keyboards look cheap and childish
yeah, all those colors just kinda looks tacky to me, like no thought was put in to making a sleek or at least original set.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Battou62 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:51:58
1) I dislike the DSA profile, and OEM profile as well.
2) I don't understand "Artisan Key Caps", and will never have any on my board.
3) If it's not a Classic Beige, BoW, or Dolch color scheme, I probably don't like it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:52:29
g) keyboards are fun and i like them
h) i love all of you
(http://dailypicksandflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/i-bring-you-love-simpsons.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: connorelsea on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:53:18
:))
3) Rainbow colored keyboards look cheap and childish
4) Artisan caps, see #3

It's weird to see a lot of people hate on the super popular artisan key caps in this thread. I always thought of collecting artisan caps in a similar way to having a few paintings on the walls of your house, but maybe I am wrong!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:53:53
* DSA is ridiculous. It is literally like having OEM profile home row keys all over the board.
* Matrix layout is not ergonomic. At all.
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
* You have to mod Cherry MX to make them feel good, and that SUCKS.
* ErgoDox is overrated.
* Cherry MX Red are stupid.
* Buckling springs are overrated.
* Heavier keyboard does NOT make for a better typing experience.
* Plate-mounting Cherry MX does not make it better.
* Lower profile is better.
* Cherry stabilisers > Costar stabilisers.
* Most scissor switches that are not super-cheap have a higher feel of quality than Cherry MX or Alps, because they are more stabilised.
* Clacks look like the super-cheap toys you get in a cereal box or with cheap candy you buy at a shady place. You could just as well buy action figures or Lego minifigs and place them next to the keyboard - it is cheaper, they usually look much better and you could actually type on the keys if they have proper keycaps instead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:54:06
how about this raibow? :eek: not childish i think
(http://www.key64.org/images/key64_ergonomic_keyboard_as_of_20130315.jpg/image_preview)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Elocutive on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:54:37
I regret buying the keyboard I buy pretty much the instant after I make the transaction because my keyboard interests change so much, and feel like it is an insane am out of money to spend on a keyboard, regardless of the quality.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:00:21
* ErgoDox is overrated.

Very.

* Cherry stabilisers > Costar stabilisers.

So much this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:07:45
clipping chery feel more better
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:08:06
1.ergo clears suck

2.vintage blacks with a spring swap is the most idiotic thing ever. the point of it being vintage is that its used and settled in. same with unused vintage black

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.

4. clack therapy thread and how people act when they dont win something is geekhack's cancer. grow the **** up.

5. i feel no difference between abs or pbt

6. clipping stabs is a placebo

7. after market price around otd boards is stupid

8. if youve spent more than 100 on boards and cant touch type. just.. leave.

9. backlighting is for children
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: skuko on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:13:41
9. backlighting is for children

this 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000+ times. can't freaking stand backlit boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:15:44
Most people don't know what they like they just go along with the crowd.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: evolveS on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:18:36
1. I like the sound of buckling springs, but it's pretty fatiguing and obviously not portable. Those boards are collector pieces.
2. I haven't driven a 40% for any reasonable amount of time, but it seems like too much usability is sacrificed for portability. The Planck project looks interesting because of the columnar layout though, so I'll bite.
3. OEM profile is too high.
4. DSA profile doesn't seem worth adjusting to for cosmetic reasons alone.
5. Scoops are just better than bars.
6. Flipped spacebars are still ergonomic.

I love this thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JPG on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:19:09
1. I don't think Filco is overpriced because at least you get a quality board (even if I don't use mine anymore).


2. Nothing beats a model F. I have not tried every switch, but nothing beats a model F anyway.


3. The SSK layout is awesome, just need to have a model F with it now. Numpads are useless to me. I can understand that it can be useful to some, but id you don't need one, don't get it.


4. Full size keyboard are stupid and bad for the shoulders unless you don't use a mouse. Either get a TKL layout or get a layout like a TKL but with the numpad instead of nav cluster. Anyway, numlock lets you use it as a nav cluster when needed even in OLD keyboards.


5. All keyboards should be fully programmable with layers and NKRO.


6. Keycaps cost way *** too much and for cherry MX I just don't see why they are not all cherry profile. OEM profile is **** and is the only reason why someone should buy another keyset.


7. Backlight keyboards are like neon on a civic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:20:34
Most people don't know what they like they just go along with the crowd.

Related:

Polls to decide on a keyboard layout (or other product design feature) are worthless. People think they want something, but they have no idea. You have to tell someone what they need, not ask them what they want.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:27:05
10. backslash is part of the alpha set. stop giving it ****ing mod colors. same with 1/esc on 60% boards. this aint 'Nam, THERE ARE RULES.

11. enough with the vomit color schemes ffs

man looks like i can do this all day.

point blank, hhkb godlike keyboard. nothing compares. and if you say different youve never been so wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:50:21
So much hate in this thread.  :'(  You can like something unpopular too, doesn't always need to be negative.  :P

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I LOVE all sorts of keyboards.  I may love some more than others, but there isn't much that I don't like.

Also, I love all of you guys, despite your hatred.   :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:51:22
Also, I love all of you guys, despite your hatred.

I LOVE YOU TOO HOFF
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:53:57
We love you too Hoff. Bro love.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 11:15:43
Most people don't know what they like they just go along with the crowd.
this is not only in keyboard almost anything :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ConscienceDrop on Fri, 07 November 2014, 11:25:44
i) HHKB layout is bad, the arrow cluster is stupid

j) programmability is nice, but the gods honest truth is most presets are probably better than 'your' layout if you would just get used to them. (besides the hhkb layout)

k) back lighting is functional, sometimes i need to one-hand type in the dark (rainbow patterns are still not acceptable)

l) custom cases that are held together by bolts on the corners are the ugliest thing i have ever seen

m) people who think certain modern boards work better/worse with certain modern OS are speaking total nonsense.

n) "Gaming" should never ever ever even slightly factor into your purchase of a keyboard. buy a real keyboard, if you happen to game on it fine. your real keyboard will have nkro or 6+ kro already, that's more than enough.
anything ever that has "gaming" on it just avoid; that's straight up life advice.

o) brown switches are by leaps and bounds the best of the common four (red, blue, black, brown) switches.

p) linear switches are pointless unless super heavy. if you dont rock a full board of MX super black and you still use linear you are doing it wrong

q) rubber dome are not "fine/okay/acceptable" keyboards are not "subjective". yes there will be a disagreement at the 'top' level of taste between switches and other things that impact feel but there is still an objectively inferior aspect to scissor/rubber dome keyboards.
when you say rubber dome are 'fine' its like you are saying you kia is a 'fine' alternative to someone else's Ferrari. its not. ferrari v Bugatti might be a more nuanced conversation, that's fine; but the inferiority of cheap ass boards is not debatable on 'subjective' grounds. 

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 11:48:43
Unpopular you say? Let's get unpopular.

Keyboard is a tool for typing.

Majority of Geekhack and the keyboard enthusiast communities overall is just a posh circlejerk masturbating to novelty keycaps, Thorpe and Korean customs. There's no common sense involved and the ignorance is reaching the level of hi-end audio hype at head-fi. Most keyboard-related discussions outside the keyboard community are full of ignorance as well. "any mechanical keyboard is more durable and feels better than rubber domes" WTF?

Split Microsoft Sculpt keyboard is much better than vast majority of available mechanical keyboards.

Speaking of that, Apple Aluminium keyboards are rubbish. Wireless connection and backlighting are also disadvantages. Pushing sound cards, USB hubs, volume controls, etc. into keyboards is pure idiocy.

Kinesis Advantage and "Truly Ergonomic" are wasted $200, due to crippled proprietary firmware. Kinesis Advantage is worth the remaining $100 only because of customer support. TECK isn't, because its customer support doesn't exist.

ABS keycaps are stupid. POM ought to be industry standard, due to their overall durability. Printing is overrated, doubleshots included. DSA feels cheap (besides being too tight on stems).

Differences among switches are overrated. Some switch modifications (like stickers) are as stupid as audiophiles swapping ultimate cables. Cherry MY aren't bad, they just aren't meant for most enthusiasts' use case.

Colemak is overrated and the ZXCV argument is dumb. (But no, QWERTY isn't "good enough".)

People, that rest their hands while typing on a normal keyboard, should pay higher insurance.

Clicky switches are only for those, who can't enable click emulation in software/buzzer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Battou62 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:06:37

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:18:15
Split Microsoft Sculpt keyboard is much better than vast majority of available mechanical keyboards.
this is have dual sgg like tipro 122 :eek:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Ap2l5mxVL._SL1000_.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:26:22

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.


except, not. at least personally i find linear boring and wouldnt waste money on it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:34:59
Split Microsoft Sculpt keyboard is much better than vast majority of available mechanical keyboards.
this is have dual sgg like tipro 122 :eek:
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Ap2l5mxVL._SL1000_.jpg)

That's not the split MS Sculpt, although it isn't all that bad either AFAIK. I meant the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Keyboard, which is tenkeyless. It's a pity they apparently don't make a wired version.

There's non-standard staggering on the top row, which is something I don't like, but the ISO version makes angle layout mod possible at the very least.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:35:49
10. backslash is part of the alpha set. stop giving it ****ing mod colors. same with 1/esc on 60% boards. this aint 'Nam, THERE ARE RULES.

11. enough with the vomit color schemes
.

10.  Symmetry 4 lyfe.

11 Unicorn vomit sucks, manly unicorn is awesome.


 
So much hate in this thread.  :'(  You can like something unpopular too, doesn't always need to be negative.  :P

Time for likes then:

I think shiny Cherry ABS is more fun to use than new Cherry or GMK ABS.

The PBT sets from my typewriter feels better than the Cherry PBT (thin and some thick mods) I have.

TA typewriter PBT >Cherry GMK ABS>Cherry PBT

I prefer good scissor switches to Cherry ML and Model M style buckling spring.

I think there's a lot of stagnation in mechs because people are more concerned with caps than a better experience. 

Making stuff together and off topic are the best subforums.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:50:33
1. Some scissors switches on laptops are pretty good

2. I love flat keyboards, the smaller the angle the better!

3. DSA is awesome (and an LP set would be sweet)

4. I think most ergonomics keyboards are poorly masked snake oil ("natural" typing and posture is completely personal)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:57:43
Oh another one.  I think that keyboards should have a negative angle, with the high part in the front and short part in the back.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Battou62 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:59:14

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.


except, not. at least personally i find linear boring and wouldnt waste money on it.

(http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ready-to-fight-bruce-lee.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:06:44
ssk overrated as ****
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JPG on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:07:56
ssk overrated as ****


It's only problem is being an M and not an F. Poor ssk lol.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:08:10
ssk overrated as ****

almost as overrated as the HHKB  ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: a_ak57 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:08:30
If the HHKB was my first experience with topre I'd have gone back to cherry.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xowie on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:13:27
Based solely on the comments of this thread, my unpopular keyboard opinion is that HHKB is the best board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:22:39
4. I think most ergonomics keyboards are poorly masked snake oil ("natural" typing and posture is completely personal)
Like this (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016981410400215X)?

Quote
Problem: Although alternative keyboards promote safer postures, their implementation is impeded by the initial reduced productivity. The objective of this study was to assess the effect of training on typing efficiency on two ergonomic keyboards (Maltron and Goldtouch).

Method: Thirty volunteers (20 trained and 10 untrained) typed a standardized text on each keyboard. Bilateral wrist motion, overall applied force, surface electromyography (EMG), and typing performance were continuously monitored.

Results:   The one-way ANOVA with repeated measures revealed that training decreased the applied force significantly for both Maltron (p<0.031) and Goldtouch (p<0.022). Training affected the typing speed (p<0.027 and p<0.008 for Goldtouch and Maltron, respectively) and error rate (p<0.039 and p<0.007 for Goldtouch and Maltron, respectively). However, training did not influence wrist motion and EMG muscle activity.

Conclusions: Due to the fact that the increase in performance following the training period did not cause higher muscle activity, ergonomic keyboards may constitute a solution for reducing typing related musculoskeletal problems.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: munch on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:25:41

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.


except, not. at least personally i find linear boring and wouldnt waste money on it.

Show Image
(http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ready-to-fight-bruce-lee.gif)


I'll take your side, mr Lee...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:32:25
Few more...

11. If you like plastic toys integrated into your keyboard, why settle for little custom keycaps when you can get a whole keyboard with dragon style design (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0GA-009T-00001)?

12. We should be buying a greater variety of keyboards, not just the same ones over and over. We're looked to as a hub of knowledge about such things, but the reality is that even if you only consider western sites like ebay and amazon, there are a lot of mechanical keyboards out there that I wager not one of us has any firsthand experience of. Some of these might well have features that turn out to be good, or perhaps even good build quality or a good price-quality ratio, but we'll never know because even the heavy collectors tend to buy and chase the same few things, instead of competing to find and reveal things that were previously "unexplored" by the community.

13. Many "gamer" features can actually be useful, but usually not for anything having to do with gaming. Remember, most features that are now marketed as "gamer features", like side macro keys, little screens on the keyboard, NKRO, etc. were done by non-gaming keyboards first, and only started to be marketed towards gamers later.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:55:14

QWERTY character layout is * edit : was * to prevent neighbouring keys being pressed too rapidly in succession and jamming the gravity returned hammers.

Oh wait.. WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS ANY MORE. Yet the design has persisted, due to being familiar.

It's not logical, it's not comfortable or ergonomic, it's not even symmetrical or aesthetic.


But it does look good.


The ONLY reason to use it is familiarity. When the only reason you still do something a certain way is tradition, it's time to make a change, based on more current requirements.



I disagree entirely. Yes, we are accustomed to it.

But I believe that a staggered layout increases accuracy and prevents a great number of false keypresses that would have just grazed the edge of an adjacent key. I believe that having the center point which you are aiming at staggered in at least one direction enhances precision.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: johndavis33 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:16:55
Filcos are extremely overrated.

All of the lighter MX switches are trash.

Not exactly a keyboard opinion, but trackpoint > trackball.

Infact, I think trackpoints should be standard on all keyboards, especially on all laptops.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:21:48
I think trackpoints should be standard on all keyboards, especially on all laptops.

I just wish that I could re-map 2 of my unused keys to left- and right- mouse click.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:25:24
I believe
Yes.

I think trackpoints should be standard on all keyboards, especially on all laptops.
I just wish that I could re-map 2 of my unused keys to left- and right- mouse click.
You can, can't you? It's implemented in TMK at least IIRC.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:39:19
4. I think most ergonomics keyboards are poorly masked snake oil ("natural" typing and posture is completely personal)
Like this (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016981410400215X)?

Quote
Problem: Although alternative keyboards promote safer postures, their implementation is impeded by the initial reduced productivity. The objective of this study was to assess the effect of training on typing efficiency on two ergonomic keyboards (Maltron and Goldtouch).

Method: Thirty volunteers (20 trained and 10 untrained) typed a standardized text on each keyboard. Bilateral wrist motion, overall applied force, surface electromyography (EMG), and typing performance were continuously monitored.

Results:   The one-way ANOVA with repeated measures revealed that training decreased the applied force significantly for both Maltron (p<0.031) and Goldtouch (p<0.022). Training affected the typing speed (p<0.027 and p<0.008 for Goldtouch and Maltron, respectively) and error rate (p<0.039 and p<0.007 for Goldtouch and Maltron, respectively). However, training did not influence wrist motion and EMG muscle activity.

Conclusions: Due to the fact that the increase in performance following the training period did not cause higher muscle activity, ergonomic keyboards may constitute a solution for reducing typing related musculoskeletal problems.
Yeah, so here's the problem, I just read the article (I have a DeepDyve account) and this particular study is simply about 8h training sessions helping to increase proficiency with the new boards. It's not a study that says it reduces RSI.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:45:07
Quote
Although previous studies showed an improve-
ment in wrist posture (Hedge and Powers, 1995;
Marklin and Simoneau, 2001; Smith et al., 1998),
forearm pronation (Smith et al., 1998; Zecevic et
al., 2000), and tendon travel (Treaster and Marras,
2000), when typing on ergonomic keyboards
compared to conventional one, the replacement
costs and early decreased performance become
considerations.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:09:36
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
Can you explain this one? What do you mean “at fault”? As far as I can tell the “popularity” of rubber dome keyboards in the 90s and after is entirely about (a) low cost, and perhaps (b) quiet sound.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: epzy on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:15:53
1. all pbt keycaps except cherry ones blows

2. 45g type-s feels way more snappy/tactile than 55g rf

3. lubing topre boards is no bueno

4. most gon's looks awful
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:16:11
Yeah I didn't quite understand that one either. :/
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: divito on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:21:46
Let's hear them.

I'll start off.

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

2. I think HHKB boards are overrated, and the layout dumber than a Poker. I think custom MX, HHKB layout boards are just as stupid (Viper, Happy).

3. I think Topre is overrated, and lower quality than MX (despite the higher price) as the board tends to get stiffer over time.

I approve of this message.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:24:30
It's implemented in TMK at least IIRC.

What is TMK?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:27:45
It's implemented in TMK at least IIRC.

What is TMK?


http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41989.0
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:38:57
I just thought of more

1) Mx blue switch is one of the noisiest switch ever. You can never browse at night and the click is very annoying.

2) Anyone typing in any other layout other than qwerty has little too much time on there hands. There is nothing wrong with qwerty

3) I still love my chiclet keyboard on my macbook. I think the macbook has the best chiclet keyboard.

4) Flipped spacebars look silly and does not assist your typing nor is it more "ergonomic".

5) Linear switches are a complete waste of money. you might as well buy a 6yr old rubber dome.

6) Anyone with more than 5 clacks has a hoarding problem and should give me one right away
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:39:19
Making stuff together and off topic are the best subforums.
Off topic is the best because it keeps all the garbage and all the most childish forum members away from the other subforums. It’s like a prison or ebola quarantine: no one wants to spend time there, but we’re glad it exists for the sake of public safety.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:48:27

I just thought of more

1) Mx blue switch is one of the noisiest switch ever. You can never browse at night and the click is very annoying.

2) Anyone typing in any other layout other than qwerty has little too much time on there hands. There is nothing wrong with qwerty

3) I still love my chiclet keyboard on my macbook. I think the macbook has the best chiclet keyboard.

4) Flipped spacebars look silly and does not assist your typing nor is it more "ergonomic".

5) Linear switches are a complete waste of money. you might as well buy a 6yr old rubber dome.

6) Anyone with more than 5 clacks has a hoarding problem and should give me one right away

Yeah. Pretty much all of this. Except for the Mac kb stuff.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:53:33
I got nothing.  Only love.   :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fnzzy on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:13:17
1. I think the Lightsaver looks silly

2. Thin keycaps feel bad and I have no interest in owning a set (means no toxic or raindrop etc.)

3. DSA looks horrible, the font that most DSA sets use looks horrible, the Retro set looks abyssmal

4. I like 75% .. yes you heard right.

5. I don't really  like the looks of all the CC caps. Candy Corn is the worst color scheme ever.

6. The term "Gaming" is stupid and gaming functionality is useless. No one should buy those products.

7. I never used the Win key and never will. Therefore I think that 84 key is the best layout for TKL.

8. Also, according to this thread I am one of the few people who think linear switches are amazing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:18:34

5. Candy Corn is the worst color scheme ever.

8. Also, according to this thread I am one of the few people who think linear switches are amazing.


I wouldn't pay big bucks for weird caps, but I really like "Candy Corn" and "Beer with Head" colors.

My teenage son, a gamer, loves his black Cherry switches and thin soft O-rings on the keys he uses most.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:22:36
Quote
Although previous studies showed an improve-
ment in wrist posture (Hedge and Powers, 1995;
Marklin and Simoneau, 2001; Smith et al., 1998),
forearm pronation (Smith et al., 1998; Zecevic et
al., 2000), and tendon travel (Treaster and Marras,
2000), when typing on ergonomic keyboards
compared to conventional one, the replacement
costs and early decreased performance become
considerations.
To which I raise you Carpal tunnel syndrome due to keyboarding and mouse tasks: a review (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169814102001804) which has in its conclusion:

Quote
Although there is strong evidence of a causal relation between keyboarding and pointing devices on the one hand and CTS occurrence on the other, the role of every single design element is not known. Once these answers are provided, the primary aim of the environmental changes will certainly be the reduction of the risk factors regardless of the associated financial costs as these are going to be one-time expenditures.

No one has shown the link of wrist position etc. to RSI/CTS.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:31:21
See Rempel 2007. Besides, CTS is only one specific kind of keyboard-related issues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Elocutive on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:47:41
I would rather use plastic cases than low profile metal cases. They are hideous
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:05:26
No one has shown the link of wrist position etc. to RSI/CTS.
I’ll grant you that most studies about keyboard ergonomics are crap: small sample sizes and selection biases in typists studied, insufficient training time, short study times, poorly controlled confounding factors, etc. etc.

However, your blanket statement is too strong IMO. Changes in typing posture (or e.g. the adoption of a new keyboard) often makes a dramatic difference in discomfort, both for people with severe RSI, and for people first starting to exhibit mild symptoms. There are plenty of people on this forum who can attest to that from direct experience, and at least a handful of studies that put together some of the pieces, if imperfectly.

Considering how many people spend hours a day typing, it would be great if someone would spend a few million dollars on a longer term research program, with better study design and a more comprehensive plan, instead of just getting occasional scattered studies done by a grad student here or a grad student there, with little cooperation or support, etc. Unfortunately I don’t personally know anyone with the resources and inclination to fix that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:12:34
I think Clacks looks stupid and it amuses me when I see people paying tons of cash for them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:13:17
yeah i don't like SA either.

i tried the filco sphericals and had to remove them, because i started having wrist pains due to the unnatural angle, because the caps are too damn high :)

a wrist rest partially alleviates this, but it's just additional clutter on the table i don't really need, so i'll stick to my cherry profile thick PBT caps without the need of a wristrest.

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/002/626/doing-it-wrong.jpg)

You should raise your wrists off the desk when typing.

SA profile is awesome. The most solid, heavy, piano-like, retro-modern, beautiful profile ever.

And it looks fantastic on 60% boards.

I am always right unless I'm wrong.

<combined an answer with five unpopular opinions, how's that for efficiency? And artisan caps are art. Everyone has their own taste. Or lack thereof.>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: neun_sechs_zwei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:15:54
So much hate in this thread.  :'(  You can like something unpopular too, doesn't always need to be negative.  :P

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I LOVE all sorts of keyboards.  I may love some more than others, but there isn't much that I don't like.

I hear you. These keyboards are generally unergonomic useless pieces of ****e but I like them anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: divito on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:17:07
You should raise your wrists off the desk when typing.

Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.

I've never really understood how people get RSI/CTS from keyboarding, but if they have that notion of holding their hands up in the air, I can kind of see it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:20:48
I would rather use plastic cases than low profile metal cases. They are hideous
blasphemy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:23:51
The important thing is significant weight. The more solid the thing that you are pushing against, the easier and more accurate the pushing is. Actually bolting the keyboard to the table would be ideal.

That is also why the Evoluent mouse is the worst mouse in the universe.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:27:19
Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.
Your chair is too low and/or your desk is too high.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: divito on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:53:48
Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.
Your chair is too low and/or your desk is too high.

? Arms are at 90 degrees.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:22:47
Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.
Your chair is too low and/or your desk is too high.
? Arms are at 90 degrees.
If you’re resting your palms on your desk while typing, then either you’re putting incredible strain on your wrists, or your desk/chair are at a bad height, or both.

If you are using a standard-layout keyboard and resting your palms on a palmrest while typing, then same story. Unless you have a palmrest which is very high, taller than any that I’ve ever seen in person or in pictures. (If this is the case you should have said so up front.)

Palmrests are for resting your palms on when you are not actively typing. If you are resting your palms on them while actively typing, you very likely have poor typing posture. Please don’t do this if you have a job that requires many hours of continuous typing (e.g. writing a novel, working as a programmer, or transcribing speech); you’ll injure yourself.

If you’re using a Kinesis Advantage, Maltron, or similar keyboard, then you might be fine. (But again, you should have said so up front.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:40:55
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
Can you explain this one? What do you mean “at fault”? As far as I can tell the “popularity” of rubber dome keyboards in the 90s and after is entirely about (a) low cost, and perhaps (b) quiet sound.
I meant popular among manufacturers, sorry.
"Hey, this cheaper switch feels just like the more expensive Alps switch. It is cheaper and good enough. Let's use it.".
That is probably how it started. Then there was even more cost-cutting. Not all rubber domes are bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:51:25
"Hey, this cheaper switch feels just like the more expensive Alps switch. It is cheaper and good enough. Let's use it."
I guarantee you that whatever people inside HP, IBM, Dell, etc. etc. decided to start shipping rubber domes with their keyboards did not have the feel of black Alps switches anywhere near their decision process.

If you want to insult black Alps switches, go right ahead, but it’s ridiculous to invent a story about it.

FWIW, I don’t especially like rubber domes, and I also don’t especially like black Alps switches, but IMO they don’t feel remotely similar to each-other.

I think you’re projecting. Along the lines of: “Here’s this thing I don’t like, and here’s this other thing I don’t like. They must be the same.”
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:56:44
FWIW, I don’t especially like rubber domes, and I also don’t especially like black Alps switches, but IMO they don’t feel remotely similar to each-other.
Ok, maybe not Black Alps, but Cream Alps have been mistaken for better rubber domes many times ... and Black Alps have a somewhat similar force curve.

I think you’re projecting. Along the lines of: “Here’s this thing I don’t like, and here’s this other thing I don’t like. They must be the same.”
That's your opinion. :-þ
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: qihqi on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:03:54
I love Truly Ergonomic keyboard and own two.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:09:21
...
Standard QWERTY layout keyboards in general - horizontal stagger design is to allow levers to reach the hammer mechanism. QWERTY character layout is to prevent neighbouring keys being pressed too rapidly in succession and jamming the gravity returned hammers.... Oh wait.. WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS ANY MORE. Yet the design has persisted, due to being familiar. It's not logical, it's not comfortable or ergonomic, it's not even symmetrical or aesthetic. The ONLY reason to use it is familiarity. When the only reason you still do something a certain way is tradition, it's time to make a change, based on more current requirements.

I agree.

This is my suggestion to keyboard manufacturers:

a) a TKL keyboard. (Attached.)

b) a 7x14 keyboard (Attached.)

To users: if you don't want to sacrifice any of your skills with the standard keyboard, or you already own an expensive TKL case, expensive keycaps, rare switches etc and don't want to waste more money, choose a). Otherwise, chose b).

Edit: I'm sorry I couldn't post attachements. Internal server error.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:17:50
Ok, maybe not Black Alps, but Cream Alps have been mistaken for better rubber domes many times ...
I can definitely imagine that as a quick first impression, since they have a springy/mushy stroke bottom. I think it’d be hard to sustain that impression after a few minutes of use.

I think of a Alps cream switch as basically a slightly better version of an MX clear switch with an o-ring installed. In both cases, the switches would benefit substantially from a bit sharper/snappier tactile feel, and from a lighter spring.

It’s possible to mod cream Alps switches into something quite nice by replacing the spring (or cutting a few loops off), and bending the tactile leaf a bit or replacing it with a more tactile one.

Matias definitely has the best unmodded switch of this general concept.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asgeirtj on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:21:07
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:29:42
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
well now hold on lets not get carried away. Some of us prefer not to have the sharp edge of the spacebar digging into our thumb
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:30:49
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****. [...]
2. SA the same way is horrendeous. [...]
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, [...]
4. Browns is the best popular switch [...]
7. IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly,
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.
Judging from your criteria, I’m guessing you use a Cherry G80-3850 with the LEDs removed and the logo painted over. Nailed to a block of wood to avoid too low a profile.

But seriously, I’m really not sure there are any keyboards you’d be satisfied with, if you need all of:
No colors anywhere, no backlight, ISO layout, no logos, included numpad, no extra space below the F keys, tall and steeply angled keyboard with wrist rest, low-profile cylindrical keycaps.

Maybe the Sun Type 4 would work for you?
(http://homepage1.nifty.com/y-osumi/parts/keyboard/sun/sun_type4.jpg)

Oh wait, I figured it out:
(http://adlib.blogs.com/andyblog/images/IMG_0019_1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hPN0dCH.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:35:56
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.

So...you hate everything about mechanical keyboards.   :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:36:26

One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.

What profile do you like?  DCS?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:18:50

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.

he's right though.
paying money for linears is like paying money for air.

ps

why do people think novelties are used for typing?  do people think that clack collectors actually type on them?

they're just minisculptures tht happen to fit on keyboard switches.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:25:26
Having one on ESC is fine, but having more than that just looks like you're 12 years old.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:29:31
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:40:52
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:42:06
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Me too! How are you liking the v60 with Matias switches??
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:42:38
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Thats a thing? Link! I suddenly want a matias keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:43:15
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Me too! How are you liking the v60 with Matias switches??

Matias/Signature Plastics keycaps can't come soon enough.  Not entirely satisfied with the stock keycaps...

KBP really needs to roll out Tai Hao's as stock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Fri, 07 November 2014, 21:23:07
I like back lighting, but I hate the way manufacturers use it.

Back lighting should be used to guide people, not to fool them.

Every key should have a number of independent LEDs (each for one symbol under the key). Two would be the bare minimum, four would be better, and eight would be ideal. And monochromatic LEDs would suffice.

Manufacturers have chosen the opposite way -- a single full-rainbow-colored LED under every key. I hate it.

I won't spend $200 for such a backlit keyboard. A lamp set or a Christmas tree would do it better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AuRinBei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 21:50:15
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.


I want to fight you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 23:22:04
Linear is really nice espicially black or 60g up red is not smooth at all its like press bolpein without spring
the only i dont like boring linear clicky wouldbe good
i like tactile RD than grey ;D
i dont have many experience with kibord & easily intrested :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 07 November 2014, 23:42:53
1.  I love Cherry profile, but I don't hate OEM profile.

2.  I think SA profile is really ugly.

3.  Any keyboard smaller than 80% is unusable to me, but I think they are pretty.

4.  I think winkey and menu key is useless, so I prefer 84 keys.

5.  Artisan keycap on esc looks fine.  but i think filling the whole F-row with artisan keycaps is ugly.

6.  I think spacebar should be separated into two, just like the G80-5000.

7.  G80 is one of the best keyboard I have used.

8.  I like both Cherry abs and pbt, but I hate SP abs because of the rough surface.

9.  I think putting grave accent key and backslash should be in alpha keys color.

10.  I think F5-F8 should be in alpha keys color too.

11.  I modifiers keys in grey is much better than legend color.

12.  I don't like miami keycaps.

13.  I don't like bucking spring.... it just driving me crazy.

14.  I LOVE scooped F & J, I HATE bars or dot on F & J.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 00:06:59
5.  Artisan keycap on esc looks fine.  but i think filling the whole F-row with artisan keycaps is ugly.
6.  I think spacebar should be separated into two, just like the G80-5000.
9.  I think putting grave accent key and backslash should be in alpha keys color.
10.  I think F5-F8 should be in alpha keys color too.
11.  I modifiers keys in grey is much better than legend color.
12.  I don't like miami keycaps.
These aren’t unpopular opinions. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asgeirtj on Sat, 08 November 2014, 01:41:56
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****. [...]
2. SA the same way is horrendeous. [...]
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, [...]
4. Browns is the best popular switch [...]
7. IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly,
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.
Judging from your criteria, I’m guessing you use a Cherry G80-3850 with the LEDs removed and the logo painted over. Nailed to a block of wood to avoid too low a profile.

But seriously, I’m really not sure there are any keyboards you’d be satisfied with, if you need all of:
No colors anywhere, no backlight, ISO layout, no logos, included numpad, no extra space below the F keys, tall and steeply angled keyboard with wrist rest, low-profile cylindrical keycaps.

Maybe the Sun Type 4 would work for you?
Show Image
(http://homepage1.nifty.com/y-osumi/parts/keyboard/sun/sun_type4.jpg)


Oh wait, I figured it out:
Show Image
(http://adlib.blogs.com/andyblog/images/IMG_0019_1.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/hPN0dCH.jpg)


Regular space below the F keys is fine (for a work keyboard, need no space for sc2).  It's just extra space which is ugly like the g80-3000 has. Regular keyboards are fine, I have wasd v2 now and it fits my criteria pretty much.  I have  IKBC F104 coming in though which I will probably switch out the wasd for because of stabilizer issues with thick cherry caps, got gmk dolch incomin which I think looks pretty good (without the color pack). 

One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.

What profile do you like?  DCS?

cherry
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 08 November 2014, 01:51:48
* I think exposed switches are ugly, unless there are absolutely no borders. The keyboard shouldn't have a footprint larger than the keycaps if the switches are exposed. Super-wide borders with countersunk bolts/nuts... or even worse: bolt heads that are not countersunk are ugly as Elle.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AuRinBei on Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:20:29
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I don't think that many people here play games. I can see why people don't like them for typing. I mean, why wouldn't you want some kind of force feedback? But there are plenty of games where linear switches are preferable. There are even games where I don't prefer mechanical. I play Super Meat Boy and Super Hexagon with scissor switches, and I notice an improvement over blacks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:36:47
People don’t like typing on linear switches because tactile and audio feedback are incredibly helpful when typing (or doing anything else with a keyboard, frankly).

Personally I would be willing to type on linear switches, part of the time (not all the time), if the following conditions were met:
(1) relatively high actuation point – Cherry MX is a bit too low for me; on the other hand, total travel distance isn’t all that important in a linear switch, anything from 2.5–5mm is fine.
(2) the right amount of force required; with Cherry MX, this means swapping in aftermarket “korean” 62–67g springs, or possibly the springs from MX clear switches. Green Alps and white Hi-Tek “space invaders” are both pretty good, as are some tee mount Alps, and some of the linear switches from the 60s–70s (though I find many others to be too stiff).
(3) very smooth action: this takes either high quality plastics and and effective manufacturing process on the slider/housing surfaces, or a bunch of lubricant, or ideally both; among MX switches, the “vintage” type are okay, but the modern ones are unpleasantly scratchy
(4) great response to off-axis keypresses, with smooth action when pressed at any angle, and no wobble. Both MX and Alps switches are weak here, and I suspect Matias’s linear switches will be even weaker; space invaders are better, and I’m also partial to SMK “monterey” switches with the click leaves removed. The “super Alps” keyboard HaaTa has is probably the best example http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed. I don’t have enough experience with various other vintage linear switches to judge all the rest. Lubricant helps improve this for most linear switches.
(5) A solenoid for audio/tactile feedback at switch actuation. This one is absolutely crucial for me. Linear switches with no feedback are just no fun to type on, but add a big loud solenoid, especially in a sturdy metal/wood case, and BAM, the fun is back.

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:53:38
(5) A solenoid for audio/tactile feedback at switch actuation. This one is absolutely crucial for me. Linear switches with no feedback are just no fun to type on, but add a big loud solenoid, especially in a sturdy metal/wood case, and BAM, the fun is back.

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.
i think beam spring have selenoid
how to add selenoid ?:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Sat, 08 November 2014, 03:06:51
Here's another two:

All Signature Plastics keycaps except SA profile are too thin and light and not worth buying. DCS doubleshots weight less than 1g (0.8g for home row), SA doubleshots weigh 2g each. Unless you are using Blues.

But MX clicky switches, particularly Blues, are cheap sounding and irritating, so it's still not worth getting any SP caps other than SA profile.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 08 November 2014, 03:35:48
People don’t like typing on linear switches because tactile and audio feedback are incredibly helpful when typing (or doing anything else with a keyboard, frankly).

(…)

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.

That's you opinion, and it's very unpopular with me. >_<

I've picked linear (MX) switches over MX Clear and especially Alps for my newer boards, because (1) click annoys other people and I'm listening to music anyway; (2) I don't type all day, very few people actually do (and many of them would be better replaced by speech recognition), and riding the actuation point on linear switches is much nicer, when navigating through documents, switching windows, etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: notsonerd on Sat, 08 November 2014, 03:50:42
1. Backlights on a keyboard look awesome and they help a lot under certain conditions.

2. 60% layouts have the sexiest look hands down.

3. Corsair's keyboards are built well and feel nice to type on. They're also among the best-looking. Waiting for 60%.

4. Keycap materials can be mixed on a keyboard so long as the keys you use most (alphabet) are in the material you prefer most.

5. Ergonomics play a big part in a typing experience. This is an indirect jab at the space-wasting full-sized keyboards. Now it's a direct jab.

6. Switch testers are way overrated and serve the purpose of a desk toy better than to help someone determine which switches they like.

7. Artisan keycaps are art. Most of them may not look that great to me, but I consider them art in their own right and the ones who make them as artists.

8. Reverse spacebar makes any standard layout keyboard look two times better.

9. There need to be more keyboards with analog media controls like Corsair's. Albeit, a more space-saving implementation would be preferred, but they're just so handy.

10. Cherry MX Browns and Reds kind of rock. People who say they don't type way too harshly. That said...

11. Any switch heavier than Browns or Reds are too heavy to type on properly.

12. Keyboard layouts other than QWERTY don't make life easier. Tried Dvorak. They're only for hipsters. I was a hipster once. This thread is full of hipsters, though, so...I guess I still am.

13. Keyboards with more than three radically different colors (other than RGB mods) look stupid and need to go back to the 80's.

14. Huge legends look hideous. What's the point of making them bigger than size 12 font?

15. There's no point to the Windows and Menu keys on a keyboard. Give me another Fn key or even a Pn for that customizeability.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:00:54
13. Keyboards with more than three radically different colors (other than RGB mods) look stupid and need to go back to the 80's.
Nooooo!!! I don't want RGB backlighting on my Model M!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AuRinBei on Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:04:53
People don’t like typing on linear switches because tactile and audio feedback are incredibly helpful when typing (or doing anything else with a keyboard, frankly).

Personally I would be willing to type on linear switches, part of the time (not all the time), if the following conditions were met:
(1) relatively high actuation point – Cherry MX is a bit too low for me; on the other hand, total travel distance isn’t all that important in a linear switch, anything from 2.5–5mm is fine.
(2) the right amount of force required; with Cherry MX, this means swapping in aftermarket “korean” 62–67g springs, or possibly the springs from MX clear switches. Green Alps and white Hi-Tek “space invaders” are both pretty good, as are some tee mount Alps, and some of the linear switches from the 60s–70s (though I find many others to be too stiff).
(3) very smooth action: this takes either high quality plastics and and effective manufacturing process on the slider/housing surfaces, or a bunch of lubricant, or ideally both; among MX switches, the “vintage” type are okay, but the modern ones are unpleasantly scratchy
(4) great response to off-axis keypresses, with smooth action when pressed at any angle, and no wobble. Both MX and Alps switches are weak here, and I suspect Matias’s linear switches will be even weaker; space invaders are better, and I’m also partial to SMK “monterey” switches with the click leaves removed. The “super Alps” keyboard HaaTa has is probably the best example http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed. I don’t have enough experience with various other vintage linear switches to judge all the rest. Lubricant helps improve this for most linear switches.
(5) A solenoid for audio/tactile feedback at switch actuation. This one is absolutely crucial for me. Linear switches with no feedback are just no fun to type on, but add a big loud solenoid, especially in a sturdy metal/wood case, and BAM, the fun is back.

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.

Most MOBA and RTS players use blues or browns. There is really no downside to using them for those kinds of games. But most FPS players use reds or blacks. The reason for this is that it is much more important to be able to float the actuation point for very subtle movements in FPS games, and having a bump to go over makes that much harder. I tried for a long time to get used to browns, but I never really felt like I had very much control with them. Same with Topre. It's also important that the switch actuates and de-actuates at the same height (which makes blues really bad for FPS). Would a plate spring do that? It would be useful if it did. Although even if it did, the spring force would still sharply decrease at the actuation point as the beam collapses. It probably wouldn't be that hard to adjust to, but it's honestly not very hard to just learn where the actuation point is on a linear switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: notsonerd on Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:16:21
13. Keyboards with more than three radically different colors (other than RGB mods) look stupid and need to go back to the 80's.
Nooooo!!! I don't want RGB backlighting on my Model M!

I was referring to keycaps, but I'm the same way towards backlights.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 08 November 2014, 07:56:05
KAILH SWITCHES ARE ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sat, 08 November 2014, 08:27:56
KAILH SWITCHES ARE ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD

Someone needs to cause a paradox by putting Kailh's into a Cherry brand keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Sat, 08 November 2014, 08:48:01
2.25 Lshift is blasphemy so is 2.75 Rshift
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 08 November 2014, 08:52:00
2.25 Lshift is blasphemy so is 2.75 Rshift

What about 1.25 left shift?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Sat, 08 November 2014, 09:44:34
2.25 Lshift is blasphemy so is 2.75 Rshift

What about 1.25 left shift?
1.25 is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .

ANSI is stupid for this and the key above enter , why would you put an regular key between enter and backspace wtf ameri***s .

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 10:31:40
1.25 [left shift] is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .
Except if your hands are smaller than average, then the left shift becomes quite hard to reach. (For instance, my wife finds the ANSI right shift essentially unusable; on ISO both shift keys are unusable for her.)

In any event, all these layouts are truly bad. ISO / ANSI / JIS / whatever, it’s bad piled on bad piled on bad, for >100 years.

Quote
wtf ameri***s.
I know this is the “unpopular opinions” thread, but can you keep this kind of crassness confined to 4chan? Thanks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ComradeSniper on Sat, 08 November 2014, 13:50:47
6. clipping stabs is a placebo

wut

I can feel a very clear difference between clipped and unclipped stabs. Clipped stabs still interfere with the feel more than costar but they're far less mushy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sat, 08 November 2014, 14:28:02
1.25 [left shift] is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .
Except if your hands are smaller than average, then the left shift becomes quite hard to reach. (For instance, my wife finds the ANSI right shift essentially unusable; on ISO both shift keys are unusable for her.)


if you're shorter than 6ft, you will pretty much hit the ansi lshift on the right side.  aka you will completely miss it on iso.

the position should be REVERSED.  1x key, 1.25x lshift key.

iso is stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fnzzy on Sat, 08 November 2014, 14:28:45
EVERY single keycap set by WASD keyboards looks like ass.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 08 November 2014, 14:58:52
1.25 [left shift] is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .
Except if your hands are smaller than average, then the left shift becomes quite hard to reach. (For instance, my wife finds the ANSI right shift essentially unusable; on ISO both shift keys are unusable for her.)


if you're shorter than 6ft, you will pretty much hit the ansi lshift on the right side.  aka you will completely miss it on iso.

the position should be REVERSED.  1x key, 1.25x lshift key.

iso is stupid.
That's quite an assumption about ones typing technique.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:19:33
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:23:14
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)


Love is the true unpopular opinion.  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DasHHKBProM on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:26:53
I only like sharing my love for mech keyboards on the internet and not in real life.
outside perspective looking in, its kinda weird, but i love keyboards nonetheless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:27:23
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcubiuak4g1qb16n2.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:48:30
1.25 [left shift] is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .
Except if your hands are smaller than average, then the left shift becomes quite hard to reach. (For instance, my wife finds the ANSI right shift essentially unusable; on ISO both shift keys are unusable for her.)


if you're shorter than 6ft, you will pretty much hit the ansi lshift on the right side.  aka you will completely miss it on iso.

the position should be REVERSED.  1x key, 1.25x lshift key.

iso is stupid.
1x key + 1.25 lshift make sense . Just like the 1.25 Rshift + 1x key . And it would be a great spot for a fn button .

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rainbow_ on Sat, 08 November 2014, 16:24:27
tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 08 November 2014, 16:33:54
tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.
Where are clears in the list?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:20:56
tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.
Where are clears in the list?

in the trash, where they belong
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:33:40
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)


People seem to dislike the things most loved on this forum the most. I think what people really dislike is when people just go too far in their adoration of anything. It becomes annoying, and people start hating it for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:37:07
So you're telling me people hate things because of fanboys?

tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.

Well, Browns suck unless they're "vintage" Browns (read well broken in).  Reds are **** and Blacks are meh unless you swap the springs for Clear springs and get yourself some Ghost Blacks/Reds.  Clears are okay, but only become great when lubed and you swap the springs for 65-70g springs.  Blues are annoying and suck unless they're "vintage" Blues.  Greens are annoying.  MX Lock are fun, but a novelty that really have no use.  Whites are too inconsistent. 


Alps>MX
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:42:56
So you're telling me people hate things because of fanboys?

tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.

Well, Browns suck unless they're "vintage" Browns (read well broken in).  Reds are **** and Blacks are meh unless you swap the springs for Clear springs and get yourself some Ghost Blacks/Reds.  Clears are okay, but only become great when lubed and you swap the springs for 65-70g springs.  Blues are annoying and suck unless they're "vintage" Blues.  Greens are annoying.  MX Lock are fun, but a novelty that really have no use.  Whites are too inconsistent. 


Alps>MX

how odd, hipster nubs only likes vintage cherry and obscure ALPS (okay obscure might be pushing it, but you get the idea).

HOW ODD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:44:36
I hate the term vintage.  They're just broken in and well used. 

But demik, I like my HHKB and don't like Model Ms, what does that mean?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:45:09
I hate the term vintage.  They're just broken in and well used. 

But demik, I like my HHKB and don't like Model Ms, what does that mean?

that means you're a confused young man
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:55:52
I hate the term vintage.  They're just broken in and well used. 
If you’re talking about linear Cherry MX switches, this is simply false. Comparing never-used “vintage” (late 1980s) to brand new “modern” (2013) MX black switches, there is a night-and-day difference in smoothness. I’m not sure if it’s the quality of the injection molding tooling, or the material composition of the plastics, or some finishing process, or some kind of lubricant used, or what, but the difference is dramatic, and has nothing to do with the amount of use the switches have seen.

I’ll agree with you that MX switches are basically crap though. Even the “vintage” ones need a spring swap and some lube to be especially nice, and it’s not worth it when you could just get a Hi-Tek, SMK, Alps, or some other switch instead, and it would be nicer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 08 November 2014, 18:10:45
I've used old, "vintage", and new Blacks.  The difference is not "night and day," it's minimal in most.  There is a difference, but broken in and well used ones, regardless of old, vintage, or new, feel better than unused ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: skuko on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:07:05
yeah i don't like SA either.

i tried the filco sphericals and had to remove them, because i started having wrist pains due to the unnatural angle, because the caps are too damn high :)

a wrist rest partially alleviates this, but it's just additional clutter on the table i don't really need, so i'll stick to my cherry profile thick PBT caps without the need of a wristrest.

Show Image
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/002/626/doing-it-wrong.jpg)


You should raise your wrists off the desk when typing.

SA profile is awesome. The most solid, heavy, piano-like, retro-modern, beautiful profile ever.

And it looks fantastic on 60% boards.

I am always right unless I'm wrong.

<combined an answer with five unpopular opinions, how's that for efficiency? And artisan caps are art. Everyone has their own taste. Or lack thereof.>
I'd like to see you game for 10 hours with your hand on the wasd cluster with your wrist in the air.

SA profile had me having wrist pain, so I won't use it, period. :-)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:32:02
I think DSA caps are best for gaming in long intervals. Fingers can slide to the next key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:35:19
I'd like to see you game for 10 hours with your hand on the wasd cluster with your wrist in the air.
Using a keyboard (for whatever purpose) for 10 hours straight is stupid and terrible for your body, no matter what your setup is. Just sitting in a chair for that long at a time, whether reading a book, or watching TV, or writing with pen and paper, or whatever, is stupid.

You should be getting up and walking around after at most every 2–3 hours, and you should be taking brief stretch breaks every 30 minutes, if not more frequently.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:37:53
I'd like to see you game for 10 hours with your hand on the wasd cluster with your wrist in the air.
Using a keyboard (for whatever purpose) for 10 hours straight is stupid and terrible for your body, no matter what your setup is. Just sitting in a chair for that long at a time, whether reading a book, or watching TV, or writing with pen and paper, or whatever, is stupid.

You should be getting up and walking around after at most every 2–3 hours, and you should be taking brief stretch breaks every 30 minutes, if not more frequently.

Yeah, damn, 10 hours is pretty insane.  You're also "supposed" to pee every couple hours, so take your wrist off the keyboard when you do that, too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:43:26
Yeah, damn, 10 hours is pretty insane.  You're also "supposed" to pee every couple hours, so take your wrist off the keyboard when you do that, too.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4BZTkgpuZiE/T7Fuj7Yvm2I/AAAAAAAAPKo/76QXHW5up5Y/s1600/toilet-computer-desk.jpg)
NO.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Noko on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:49:57
1) I really love DSA.  Now that's unpopular!
2) I have a guilty pleasure, bottoming out hard on Apple laptop scissor switches.  Yes, I know it's bad for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:50:47
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Karura on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:01:52
I feel that most people lie about their crazy high typing speed (WPM) because I type at around 110WPM on average, and that's on a good day. I'm sure anyone can burst up to 130WPM for a few seconds, but I highly doubt the claims for any higher unless I see it in person :D

It's just very unlikely haha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:02:17
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.

That's mean.  :(  I thought we were friends.

If you keep that up, you'll be the unpopular opinion.   >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:08:16
I'm sure anyone can burst up to 130WPM for a few seconds, but I highly doubt the claims for any higher unless I see it in person :D

This is 125 wpm on some text entirely full of numbers, symbols, and the awkwardest words they could come up with:
(I think this guy otherwise averages ~170 wpm.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:10:24
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.

That's mean.  :(  I thought we were friends.

If you keep that up, you'll be the unpopular opinion.   >:D
☐ Not REKT ☑ REKT

I type a blistering......................................90WPM GET ON MY LEVEL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swathe on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:11:00
Sifo does like 140wpm on his youtube channel
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:11:48
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.

That's mean.  :(  I thought we were friends.

If you keep that up, you'll be the unpopular opinion.   >:D
☐ Not REKT ☑ REKT

I type a blistering......................................90WPM GET ON MY LEVEL

☑ HPE is a meanie face

I type faster than you, ya big fat jerk!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:12:58
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.

That's mean.  :(  I thought we were friends.

If you keep that up, you'll be the unpopular opinion.   >:D
☐ Not REKT ☑ REKT

I type a blistering......................................90WPM GET ON MY LEVEL

☑ HPE is a meanie face

I type faster than you, ya big fat jerk!
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/szg.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rainbow_ on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:25:28
PBT isn't that much better than ABS
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: notsonerd on Sun, 09 November 2014, 04:14:39
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)


People seem to dislike the things most loved on this forum the most. I think what people really dislike is when people just go too far in their adoration of anything. It becomes annoying, and people start hating it for it.

If this is true, then most of the unpopular opinions here are biased and have no real basis but the fact that they're annoyed by the people who have the opposite opinion. So if everyone just kept their mouths shut, this "unpopular" thread might not be so popular.

I believe a hobby such as mechanical keyboards has so much variety that it's hard to say it's even a niche community. Within the community there may be niches that differ from what's popular, but mechanical keyboards aren't as generally unpopular as people may think.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Sun, 09 November 2014, 07:04:15
...
Standard QWERTY layout keyboards in general - horizontal stagger design is to allow levers to reach the hammer mechanism. QWERTY character layout is to prevent neighbouring keys being pressed too rapidly in succession and jamming the gravity returned hammers.... Oh wait.. WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS ANY MORE. Yet the design has persisted, due to being familiar. It's not logical, it's not comfortable or ergonomic, it's not even symmetrical or aesthetic. The ONLY reason to use it is familiarity. When the only reason you still do something a certain way is tradition, it's time to make a change, based on more current requirements.

I agree.

This is my suggestion to keyboard manufacturers:

a) a TKL keyboard. (Attached.)

b) a 7x14 keyboard (Attached.)

To users: if you don't want to sacrifice any of your skills with the standard keyboard, or you already own an expensive TKL case, expensive keycaps, rare switches etc and don't want to waste more money, choose a). Otherwise, chose b).

Edit: I'm sorry I couldn't post attachements. Internal server error.

Here're the images:
a) http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64246.0;attach=79898;image
b) http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62339.0;attach=81543;image
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JDorfler on Sun, 09 November 2014, 09:38:45
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Parak on Sun, 09 November 2014, 21:47:04
Hmm.. eh, why not.

1. NKRO will not make you a better gamer.
2. Nor, to a large extent, will your switch choice.
3. Paying more for keycap(s) than the keyboard that they are on is hilarious.
4. Ditto for the case.
5. All vanilla physical (ANSI/ISO/etc) keyboard layouts are terrible outdated relics.
6. Any key larger than ~1.75x, especially the spacebar, is a waste of space.
7. Reports of the same cherry switches feeling different from one plate mount board to another, or one pcb mount board to another, is basically confirmation bias.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 09 November 2014, 21:51:14
I only really have a couple.

1) I love backlighting. I don't care if it makes me look like a child, I like seeing flashing lights and colors. It amuses me.
2) Topre is a rubber dome. I love me my springy rubber domes.

Can't think of anything else at the moment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Sun, 09 November 2014, 22:15:29
1. I love 40%

2. I love DSA (not really unpopular but a lot of people dislike DSA as well)

3. I like the HHKB layout. Though I definitely think the price is really high for what you get.

4. I very much dislike the Razer Kailh switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 09 November 2014, 22:17:43
3. Paying more for keycap(s) than the keyboard that they are on is hilarious.
4. Ditto for the case.
In some instances, the case will cost more than the rest of the keyboard. In fact, that's the case with almost every metal case, except for minimalist 60% ones. Machined aluminum just costs more than a PCB or switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 10 November 2014, 09:09:12
Hmm.. eh, why not.

1. NKRO will not make you a better gamer.
...<snip>
5. All vanilla physical (ANSI/ISO/etc) keyboard layouts are terrible outdated relics.
6. Any key larger than ~1.75x, especially the spacebar, is a waste of space.
7. Reports of the same cherry switches feeling different from one plate mount board to another, or one pcb mount board to another, is basically confirmation bias.

Agree with these.

PBT isn't that much better than ABS

This, too. They both suck compared to POM. ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 10 November 2014, 09:11:51
Finally thought of one:

I don't like "RGB" mods (CMYK, or whatever).

(http://i.imgur.com/LwEHcor.jpg)

They make your keyboard look like it fell from the Playskool tree and hit every Hasbranch on the way down.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 10 November 2014, 10:38:37
GMK RGB mods are the only good one, and that's if they're put on a winkeyless board. you also need to pair them with a dark case or dark keyset in order to bring out the color
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 10 November 2014, 10:59:56
I don't like [...] CMYK

 :eek:   :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: epzy on Mon, 10 November 2014, 11:53:43
Finally thought of one:

I don't like "RGB" mods (CMYK, or whatever).

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LwEHcor.jpg)


They make your keyboard look like it fell from the Playskool tree and hit every Hasbranch on the way down.

I think they look 10x better on winkeyless keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 10 November 2014, 15:07:23
I don't like [...] CMYK

 :eek:   :(

Yes, CMYK too!    :p
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 10 November 2014, 16:11:02
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 16:19:29
F is no better than M. It might be functionally, in that you get NKRO over 2KRO, but the feeling isn't any better, and neither is the sound. Also, the layouts and boards are ugly, and will never compete with an SSK.
Now that is an unpopular opinion  :-X

I do agree though, ssk looks so much nicer than any F out there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 10 November 2014, 16:51:04
F is no better than M. It might be functionally, in that you get NKRO over 2KRO, but the feeling isn't any better, and neither is the sound. Also, the layouts and boards are ugly, and will never compete with an SSK.

While I don't disagree with your second point, my F AT has a night and day difference in feeling than the Model Ms I've owned and used.  The Model M feels like a toy while the F feels solid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 10 November 2014, 17:04:44
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)


Love is the true unpopular opinion.  :'(

Hoffy bb you have my love
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 17:23:33
F is no better than M. It might be functionally, in that you get NKRO over 2KRO, but the feeling isn't any better, and neither is the sound. Also, the layouts and boards are ugly, and will never compete with an SSK.

While I don't disagree with your second point, my F AT has a night and day difference in feeling than the Model Ms I've owned and used.  The Model M feels like a toy while the F feels solid.
Yes, I think everything about the model f outside of the layout is better than the mode m. It's just so crisp in comparison to the m. But I guess it's all opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NeedAFix on Mon, 10 November 2014, 17:37:38
Here may be an unpopular keyboard opinion:  Keyboards are great melee weapons.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blackehart on Mon, 10 November 2014, 17:40:04
Here may be an unpopular keyboard opinion:  Keyboards are great melee weapons.

Nope. Not unpopular.

That's why I invested in customs with metal cases....might have to go upside the heads of a couple of zombies when the zombie apocalypse hits...

 :p

Or just to have handy in case you need to go upside someone's head...


 :p
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:06:08
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:09:08
Let's change the title to "Refute others' unpopular opinions by stating popular opinion".

Honestly, the fact that people actually argued with you about it means that yours is the only truly unpopular opinion.

Most of the others are opinions that a lot of people hold, but they're not vocal in the community.  Not liking F over M is legitimately unpopular.  So you should feel good.  But you should also feel bad because you're wrong.  xD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:11:34
Let's change the title to "Refute others' unpopular opinions by stating popular opinion".

Honestly, the fact that people actually argued with you about it means that yours is the only truly unpopular opinion.

Most of the others are opinions that a lot of people hold, but they're not vocal in the community.  Not liking F over M is legitimately unpopular.  So you should feel good.  But you should also feel bad because you're wrong.  xD
This
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dub on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:15:19
1. Linear switches are horrible.
2. Artisan keycaps look horrible (I do appreciate the artistry involved though).
3. Rainbow/multicolored/transparent keycaps look trashy.
4. I hate any keyboard that does not have arrow keys (I love the look of them).
5. Gaming keyboards.... ew
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:17:16
Everyone hates linear switches
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:17:47
1. Linear switches are horrible.
3. Rainbow/multicolored/transparent keycaps look trashy.
5. Gaming keyboards.... ew
popular opinions
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:21:20
Soo according to the responses in this thread, my opinion should truly be unpopular:
I think linear switches are fantastic!

fite me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:23:00
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)


Ghost Blacks/Reds = Best Goddamn Cherry switches aside from Ergo Clears.  Second only in awesomeness to Green Alps, but even then it's a close one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:29:30
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)

I love them! You and I are #teamlinear
To everyone else,
(http://i.imgur.com/bfSCxx1.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:31:08
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)

I love them! You and I are #teamlinear
To everyone else,
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/bfSCxx1.jpg)


Can I join the linear team? (he says typing on 100g clears with a linear keyboard collecting dust and waiting to be desoldered)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:38:47
If it doesn't click, it's ****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:40:34
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)


Ghost Blacks/Reds = Best Goddamn Cherry switches aside from Ergo Clears.  Second only in awesomeness to Green Alps, but even then it's a close one.
Is ghost black a black switch with clear springs? I have clear springs sitting around so I could do that.

I might try that if I ever get a 360 corsa, but that won't happen  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:42:35
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)


Ghost Blacks/Reds = Best Goddamn Cherry switches aside from Ergo Clears.  Second only in awesomeness to Green Alps, but even then it's a close one.
Is ghost black a black switch with clear springs? I have clear springs sitting around so I could do that.

I might try that if I ever get a 360 corsa, but that won't happen  :'(
Yep! Black/Red stem with clear spring. I've wanted to try that for a while too, but I've become very accustomed and comfortable with 62g blacks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Latin00032 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:56:20
Sometimes I actually like to switch from using mx and topre to regular rubber domes.

I think I like the change in feeling.

But, for the most part, I like mx.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 19:17:26
+1 for linear team. MX Black is the "true" Cherry MX, after all; everything else is basically a jury rigged modification.

So I suspect this one might be fairly unpopular: The ability to change/replace keycaps is unimportant. Non-standard keycap sizes are a good thing, because variety is the spice of life.

Also, big-ass enter is awesome. I need to get another keyboard with that sometime...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Mon, 10 November 2014, 19:30:31
this thread sucks.

and the beatles are horrible.


80% of the **** said here is not even close to being an unpopular opinion.

here's one.

if you can't touch type, why the **** are you spending 60+ on a keyboard.


most of these are just preferences. including the **** i've said myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Schwarz on Mon, 10 November 2014, 22:27:12
I'll agree with that, I always cringe when I see a mechanical/topre review and the person can't even touch type. Jesus Christ, I don't care if it's how you learned. Unlearn your bad habits and do it right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Veridis on Mon, 10 November 2014, 23:16:18
+1 on people who can't touch type..  =x
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: snipars on Mon, 10 November 2014, 23:52:29
WASD keyboards are dreadful
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 10 November 2014, 23:58:21
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Tue, 11 November 2014, 01:22:18
this thread sucks.

and the beatles are horrible.


80% of the **** said here is not even close to being an unpopular opinion.

here's one.

if you can't touch type, why the **** are you spending 60+ on a keyboard.


most of these are just preferences. including the **** i've said myself.

Most are just "disagree with the general attitude towards this of the forum"-opinions. They are not really that shocking.

Non touch-typist simply wasting their money on expensive keyboards is something that I think is indeed an unpopular opinion. I know there are quite a few of those people on geekhack. I would be lying if I said that I have not thought this every time someone mentions they do not touch type. I also think that the main benefit in terms of feel of a keyboard is mostly lost on those who do not touch type.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: divito on Tue, 11 November 2014, 01:46:38
Non touch-typist simply wasting their money on expensive keyboards is something that I think is indeed an unpopular opinion. I know there are quite a few of those people on geekhack. I would be lying if I said that I have not thought this every time someone mentions they do not touch type. I also think that the main benefit in terms of feel of a keyboard is mostly lost on those who do not touch type.

This. Same thing kind of applies to legended caps as well. There are some where simply the aesthetic value works, but most other times, it's fairly pointless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jackalope on Tue, 11 November 2014, 02:06:16
Cant stand led's on keyboards, with the exception of num lock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 11 November 2014, 02:28:54
my favorite numpad is my microwave.

MEMBRANE NO DOME MASTER RACE
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:32:21
i can type without looking at the board, but i have a very unorthodox finger placement scheme. am i still qualified as a touch typist?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:36:42
my favorite numpad is my microwave.
My favorite is the pad for entering the code to open my garage door. No one will ever guess the code, as it involves pressing the enter key three times (it doesn’t register unless you press the **** out of it, and even when you know that, it’s impossible to press hard enough on the first try; fortunately the number keys seem to work at least 80% of the time).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:38:53
i can type without looking at the board, but i have a very unorthodox finger placement scheme. am i still qualified as a touch typist?
Yes. Being a “touch typist” isn’t worth much though, it’s just a label.

What kind of typing speed can you get with your unorthodox scheme? How unorthodox are we talking here? Most (but not all) of the unorthodox schemes I’ve seen are unorthodox because they’re bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:41:15
2switch more stable than stabs
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:55:56
What kind of typing speed can you get with your unorthodox scheme? How unorthodox are we talking here? Most (but not all) of the unorthodox schemes I’ve seen are unorthodox because they’re bad.
i mostly just don't have a pattern and deviate my finger placement based on words. for example, "OPA" would be right index finger - right middle finger, but "KOP" would be right index - right middle - right ring. i also move my hands around a lot instead of leaving them in a central position like good touch typists do.

my highest WPM at 10FF is around 90, but i'm probably a 70-75 in practice. a bit faster than average but pales in comparison to any decent typist
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 11 November 2014, 04:01:28
i mostly just don't have a pattern and deviate my finger placement based on words. for example, "OPA" would be right index finger - right middle finger, but "KOP" would be right index - right middle - right ring. i also move my hands around a lot instead of leaving them in a central position like good touch typists do.
I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with that, but I expect it takes more practice and thought to type fast in such a scheme, because the muscle memory is a bit tougher if you can’t mostly associate particular letters with particular fingers. I suspect the difference would get particularly noticeable with a better-than-QWERTY letter arrangement designed with a standard-ish touch typing technique in mind. On the flipside, some of the fastest typists in the world have similar ad-hoc techniques.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 11 November 2014, 04:08:19
i did try Colemak but quit after a few hours, couldn't get anything done with it

the muscle memory is a bit tougher if you can’t mostly associate particular letters with particular fingers
yep, it's most noticeable when typing an unfamiliar word, i would make all sorts of mistakes. sometimes i have to mentally spell out a word and type it off that, which isn't much different from just looking at the keyboard legends
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 11 November 2014, 05:48:25
Hmmmm, I see a lot of repeat opinions here so let me just add a few more:

1. Anything lighter than MX Clears or MX Blacks is for weak fingered pussies.
2. MX Blue feels and sounds horrible. MX Green, while better, still feels and sounds cheap.
3. 60% boards are unergonomic as soon as you have to do anything that is not on the standard layout.
4. PBT is overrated. I prefer the feel of GMK ABS, especially when slick
5. I have yet to find a beige set that I really liked.
6. There are no good looking backlit compatible keycaps
7. SP translucent doubleshots look horrible
8. Keysets that lack nubs on the F and J keys are stupid
9. Dolch is boring. Classy but boring
10. Beige keysets with grey modifiers looks awful. It's not retro. It's dirty.
11. Backlit only looks good with the right keycaps or when done right. Like I did. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 11 November 2014, 12:22:23
8. Keysets that lack nubs on the F and J keys are stupid

That seems pretty popular.

SCOOPS 4 LYFE!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: snipars on Tue, 11 November 2014, 13:56:57
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
 
the crappy keycaps ruin the switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 11 November 2014, 14:00:04
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
 
the crappy keycaps ruin the switches

it sucks that you cant change them. OH WAIT YOU CAN.

thus not making their boards bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: faceyourfaces on Tue, 11 November 2014, 14:13:56
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
 
the crappy keycaps ruin the switches

it sucks that you cant change them. OH WAIT YOU CAN.

thus not making their boards bad.

The main appeal of the V2 is the ability to customize the artwork on the keycaps, so a buyer likely wouldn't even want to have to change them.
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 11 November 2014, 14:15:54
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Tue, 11 November 2014, 14:57:36
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
 
the crappy keycaps ruin the switches

it sucks that you cant change them. OH WAIT YOU CAN.

thus not making their boards bad.

The main appeal of the V2 is the ability to customize the artwork on the keycaps, so a buyer likely wouldn't even want to have to change them.

On the other hand they are one of the few (the only?) sellers that let you buy their keyboards without keycaps. Since they offer the keyboard "barebones" I think you can not really say their entire product sucks. But are they not simply ABS, OEM profile keycaps? Is there any specific reason why they are terrible? Because I did not know this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: connorelsea on Tue, 11 November 2014, 15:00:50
The appeal of the WASD V2 TKL is that it is being sold barebones and it has a sleek, logo-less, and well-built body. I love the body of the TKL. I am using caps that I bought elsewhere. I wanted a rugged body with straight lines.

So not only does it offer customization if you order their key caps, but you can also buy it as a blank slate to put whatever you want on it! It's been pretty great so far.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 11 November 2014, 16:47:03
WASD keyboards are dreadful [...] the crappy keycaps ruin the switches

On the other hand they are one of the few (the only?) sellers that let you buy their keyboards without keycaps. Since they offer the keyboard "barebones" I think you can not really say their entire product sucks. But are they not simply ABS, OEM profile keycaps? Is there any specific reason why they are terrible? Because I did not know this.

They’re just normal not-too-thick pad-printed ABS OEM-profile keycaps. Presumably snipars really doesn’t like that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 11 November 2014, 16:58:12
WASD are the only one offering clear/green in ISO version , if you don't want to take out the iron , they're great .

their low quality keycaps please the one that want stupid looking boards , normal people will buy them barebone .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: saint_james on Tue, 11 November 2014, 18:01:47
Here's an unpopular opinion for y'all:  I love my WASD v2 keyboard.  The stock UV-treated ABS keycaps are not really bad at all.  I slightly prefer the thick PBT Leopold caps but the stock caps are not obviously inferior.  I believe most of the hate felt towards WASD keycaps is rooted in the previous version before the current UV treated caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 11 November 2014, 18:11:18
The main appeal is the cheap cost for such customization, which comes at the sacrifice in cap quality. Not nearly as many people (outside of this site, aka the real world, which everyone seems to ignore) would be interested in paying for something else.

No one else offers what WASD offers, and you should appreciate them for that.

bingo.

the people that care about cap feel (us) already know not to expect the greatest of quality from wasd's keycaps. that's why they offer a barebones model.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vibex on Tue, 11 November 2014, 18:23:04
MX Browns are the best (MX) Switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: snipars on Tue, 11 November 2014, 19:21:07
Here's an unpopular opinion for y'all:  I love my WASD v2 keyboard.  The stock UV-treated ABS keycaps are not really bad at all.  I slightly prefer the thick PBT Leopold caps but the stock caps are not obviously inferior.  I believe most of the hate felt towards WASD keycaps is rooted in the previous version before the current UV treated caps.
 
 
i own and have used both types of WASD's keycaps, although i don't know which is which, the ones i bought first are a fair bit better than the newer ones, although both sets are completely rubbish 
it's neat that they offer customisation the way they do, and the keyboard itself is perfectly great, but the keycaps are just so bad that they ruin the keyboard they're on 
maybe you got lucky with yours and somehow got better keycaps, if that's at all possible
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Coreda on Wed, 12 November 2014, 03:41:06
After using Cherry Reds for several months now I find when using my MacBook's keyboad it can be more satisfying to type on, and vastly more quiet.

*Gasp*

Zero fatigue with the Cherry Reds for long periods however, and I like the board in many other ways.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Thu, 13 November 2014, 12:09:38
I don't care about a keyboard's appearance very much at all beyond it being clean. I have some vague preferences, but I would certainly never spend a penny on anything like coloured keycaps or a fancy design. I don't understand why anyone would.
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 13 November 2014, 12:27:45
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Thu, 13 November 2014, 12:55:51
I don't care about a keyboard's appearance very much at all beyond it being clean. I have some vague preferences, but I would certainly never spend a penny on anything like coloured keycaps or a fancy design. I don't understand why anyone would.

Yeah, man. Me either. How can, in a world of billions and billions of people, there be any preference or difference. I just can't fathom it.

It's not the fact that people have different preferences that confuses me, it's the reasons for this particular preference. I don't care if you prefer different things; by all means go ahead. I just will likely never share this particular one.

I thought this thread was for unpopular opinions. Must you pounce on people who dare actually voice one?
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 13 November 2014, 13:01:37
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tutuling on Thu, 13 November 2014, 13:08:23
Like the 60% size, however, after using the poker for awhile, getting hard without standard arrow clusters.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Thu, 13 November 2014, 14:16:17
I was only ****ing with you. I don't honestly care how you feel. Either way, the words you used this time ("will likely never share") better showed what you meant than saying you didn't understand.

But haven't you heard? We're changing the title: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.msg1532837#msg1532837

Fair enough, sorry for overreacting. I'll probably never wrap my head around wanting the escape key of your keyboard to be a red Darth Vader mask (surely black??) but to each his own I suppose.

That all said, I am kind of curious to know what the most unpopular keyboard opinion possible might be. I'll list a few attempts; if anyone's Jimmies are rustled just let me know I'm on the right track.
That last one actually makes even me a little butthurt.
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 13 November 2014, 14:19:24
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 13 November 2014, 14:44:36
  • Why would anyone buy an expensive keyboard? They're all the same.
  • Why buy a keyboard at all? Don't you know there is one built into an iPad? PCs are dead bro.
  • Model Ms are old and ugly. I personally rounded up dozens of them and took them to be recycled and put out of their misery.
  • Your keyboard was clicking really loudly so I figured it was broken and threw it out.
  • People who think keyboards improve their gaming skills probably suck at gaming.
  • Ripster is, was, and will always be the foremost expert on all things keyboards, whose genius and devotion are rivaled only by his modesty and restraint.
nice list, almost as good as this classic "what does it take to run a GB" post: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62256.msg1513952#msg1513952[/list]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Glod on Thu, 13 November 2014, 16:54:09
This is seriously a thread of hate.

wtf
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 13 November 2014, 16:56:45
This is seriously a thread of hate.

wtf

At least it's contained for once...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 13 November 2014, 16:59:46
You guys know that I have to re-post this at least twice a year:


Quote from: Anonymous Coward

I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."

Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.

Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.

And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 13 November 2014, 17:02:21
This is seriously a thread of hate.
Everyone needs to be a troll sometimes. It’s best if we can keep it confined to the “off topic” subforum, but sticking it all in one thread is also not too bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Thu, 13 November 2014, 17:39:15
I'm too new and stupid to back up any other opinions I may have about keyboards.  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Glod on Thu, 13 November 2014, 18:37:52
There is nothing educational about this thread, it's all just the usual hateful circle jerking.

Something educational would be if there was a thread where people who like different things showed appreciation and respect for each other. All people are doing here is taking a personal bad experience with something or someone else's bad experience with something and trying to make it a majority opinion.

Example: "I'm a programmer and I think the 60% boards are stupid because it's missing keys. Therefore I conclude that ALL programmers must hate 60% boards" same examples for ergodox, to pre, colemak, 40%, backlit, the lists go on and on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 13 November 2014, 18:43:44
Kinda surprised this isn't an off topic post...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 13 November 2014, 19:21:07
Kinda surprised this isn't an off topic post...

This is a keyboard forum, and this thread is about keyboards.

Therefore:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Thu, 13 November 2014, 23:23:25
There is nothing educational about this thread, it's all just the usual hateful circle jerking.

Something educational would be if there was a thread where people who like different things showed appreciation and respect for each other. All people are doing here is taking a personal bad experience with something or someone else's bad experience with something and trying to make it a majority opinion.

Example: "I'm a programmer and I think the 60% boards are stupid because it's missing keys. Therefore I conclude that ALL programmers must hate 60% boards" same examples for ergodox, to pre, colemak, 40%, backlit, the lists go on and on.

You telling me that I'm wrong about my opinion of this thread is strangely ironic. But I do find it educational, perhaps just not about the things you think I meant. I find it educational to observe how "elder" users behave and react to others, for just one example.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ArchieTect on Thu, 13 November 2014, 23:26:24
I love cherry blacks, that linear feel is so smooth compared to typing with browns which is like typing on cobblestones. Don't even go to the rest of the cherrys.

HHKBs are like Louboutin
Topres are like Diesel brand
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DrHubblePhD on Sun, 16 November 2014, 10:03:04
I love cherry blacks, that linear feel is so smooth compared to typing with browns which is like typing on cobblestones. Don't even go to the rest of the cherrys.

HHKBs are like Louboutin
Topres are like Diesel brand


But I really like cobblestone typing!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lastpilot on Sun, 16 November 2014, 11:44:49
- Spirit Blue / Ice Blue is the best blue. Possibly best color ever.
- Typing on a flat board. I never use feet. Recently took off the riser on my LZ, love it even more.
- I will always pay more to avoid an acrylic custom. Mechanical keyboards are forever, but acrylic is not.
- Normal cables are sometimes just as good as custom cables. I had a white cable from Amazon that I used for the longest time and it looked just fine with my boards.
- I love LED's
- I love wearing a respirator during heavy assembly soldering/desoldering.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 11:54:29
- Typing on a flat board. I never use feet. Recently took off the riser on my LZ, love it even more.
- I will always pay more to avoid an acrylic custom. Mechanical keyboards are forever, but acrylic is not.
popular
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 16 November 2014, 12:08:35
Contoured / sculpted SA profile is better than Cherry profile (and all other common profiles) for correctly positioned and angled keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EvilOliv3 on Mon, 17 November 2014, 05:38:43
lmao, is this an unpopular opinion thread or a hate thread? Most people seem to be using this as a hate ventilator.

I mean, wtf are these s***?
"Anything lighter than MX Clears or MX Blacks is for weak fingered pussies"
"Paying more for keycap(s) than the keyboard that they are on is hilarious"
"Backlit is for 12 year olds"
 "Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?" ...


State "I don't like such and such", don't add your bs hate into it. Otherwise, people might actually use their Mech boards as a melee weapon...haha just kidding...maybe...



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JaccoW on Mon, 17 November 2014, 05:59:31
GTFO with your reason!

Most of this is tongue in cheek. There is a reason why all those opinions are posted here.
Some people might feel very strong about things like backlight and switch types but they realize those are personal opinions. That's why you rarely see them in normal KB conversation.

Also, non-MX-Clear is for the weak. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:19:00

people might actually use their Mech boards as a melee weapon...haha just kidding...maybe...


If they are Model Fs or Logic Controls. Otherwise they will be at a serious disadvantage.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:26:16
I don't like Topre's sound. But the switch construction is excellent.

I can never understand people mentioning 1.25x versus 1.5x keycap size. And I find endless debates on the font of keycap legends ridiculous.

I can't tell from my head whether my metal keycap puller came from my Filco Majestouch TKL, or whether my transparent plastic cover came from my CM Storm QF TKL, or which one of them has a detachable USB cord.

MX green is the best of MX.

MX black/red and Razer - Kailh green/orange are fully legitimate switches for office keyboards.

A standard keyboard should have a tenkey (at least an embedded one), because 99% users can touch-type numbers on it.

A standard keyboard should be ortho-linear, because 99% users are hunt-and-peckers on the alphanumeric array.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:28:26

people might actually use their Mech boards as a melee weapon...haha just kidding...maybe...


If they are Model Fs or Logic Controls. Otherwise they will be at a serious disadvantage.
I beg to differ:

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/ovkAAOSwEK9T~6sV/$_1.JPG)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: billnye on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:38:03
Winkey is for plebs, winkeyLESS looks sooo much better, especially with blockers

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2950/15473451482_3ec2feb306_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f)untitled-39 (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f) by photekq-gh (https://www.flickr.com/people/115722906@N08/), on Flickr

I guess this really isn't that unpopular, but the majority of people use winkey boards so maybe it kinda is unpopular? :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rainbow_ on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:53:58
Winkey is for plebs, winkey looks sooo much better, especially with blockers

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2950/15473451482_3ec2feb306_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f)untitled-39 (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f) by photekq-gh (https://www.flickr.com/people/115722906@N08/), on Flickr

I guess this really isn't that unpopular, but the majority of people use winkey boards so maybe it kinda is unpopular? :))

Did you mean winkeyless looks best?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: billnye on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:55:16
Winkey is for plebs, winkey looks sooo much better, especially with blockers

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2950/15473451482_3ec2feb306_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f)untitled-39 (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f) by photekq-gh (https://www.flickr.com/people/115722906@N08/), on Flickr

I guess this really isn't that unpopular, but the majority of people use winkey boards so maybe it kinda is unpopular? :))

Did you mean winkeyless looks best?

Haha, yea. Just making sure you're all paying attention ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:17:22
I don't like switch "stickers".  The whole idea just bothers me.   Looks and sounds like Placebo Effect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:18:03
I liked the Ducky Shine 4 knobs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: billnye on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:19:25
I don't like switch "stickers".  The whole idea just bothers me.   Looks and sounds like Placebo Effect.

Bro, the only way to type over 100 WPM is with switch stickers. Totally real.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:24:17
I don't like switch "stickers".  The whole idea just bothers me.   Looks and sounds like Placebo Effect.

Bro, the only way to type over 100 WPM is with switch stickers. Totally real.
(http://i.imgur.com/YWFpuTq.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:28:46
I liked the Ducky Shine 4 knobs.

I think this is the one truly unpopular opinion in this thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lurch on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:49:38
 :-\
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Mon, 17 November 2014, 12:00:30
I have a hard time believing people spending a lot of time behind their keyboard for work would willingly opt for switches with over 50g actuation force. I have tried it, and like heavier switches for short periods of time (for home use for example it is fine). But I also tried it for work, and from my perspective, it is kind of insane.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 17 November 2014, 12:10:26
I have a hard time believing people spending a lot of time behind their keyboard for work would willingly opt for switches with over 50g actuation force. I have tried it, and like heavier switches for short periods of time (for home use for example it is fine). But I also tried it for work, and from my perspective, it is kind of insane.

65g Ergo Clears at work, wouldn't have it any other way...other than 70g Ergo Clears.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Mon, 17 November 2014, 13:28:49
I have a hard time believing people spending a lot of time behind their keyboard for work would willingly opt for switches with over 50g actuation force. I have tried it, and like heavier switches for short periods of time (for home use for example it is fine). But I also tried it for work, and from my perspective, it is kind of insane.

I have a hard time believing anyone would spend money on colourful keycaps for any reason, and yet people seem to do it anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tiramisuu on Mon, 17 November 2014, 16:45:46
nonprogrammable primary layers and artisan keycaps both give me gas.

Ieds on keyboards make my eyes bleed

$400 for a keyboard is stupid.

Bluetooth devices and usb keyboards..  Wtf?

That's all the hate load can manage for  now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 17 November 2014, 16:53:08
I have a hard time believing people spending a lot of time behind their keyboard for work would willingly opt for switches with over 50g actuation force. I have tried it, and like heavier switches for short periods of time (for home use for example it is fine). But I also tried it for work, and from my perspective, it is kind of insane.
Considering all the stock Cherry MX switches (except maybe MX red) require actuation force above 50g, as do basically all other keyboard switches I can think of, outside some very low force ones used on stenography keyboards or similar, your comment basically boils down to saying that you can’t believe anyone doesn’t hand-modify every keyswitch on every keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Tue, 18 November 2014, 02:42:02

Also, non-MX-Clear is for the weak.

ergoclears?

more like 'ergo you are too weak'  amirite?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: beefjerky on Tue, 18 November 2014, 05:08:49
Most artisan caps look like someone took a blowtorch to a keycap.

Cylindrical profile is far and away better than spherical profile.

Any keyboard under 60% is useless for actual work. Even 60% handicaps unnecessarily.

I trust someone else much more than myself to put together a keyboard and thus I will almost never get a DIY kit (chickened out of the Massdrop infinity and just bought a Poker II instead)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 18 November 2014, 06:07:27
Also, non-MX-Clear is for the weak.
ergoclears?
more like 'ergo you are too weak'  amirite?
YES
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Tue, 18 November 2014, 07:51:50
Cherry MX is only good for Hybrid keyboards so Alps users can get some Novelty keycap love :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frosty on Tue, 18 November 2014, 08:36:37
u need a spanking
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 18 November 2014, 08:47:36
Alps switches are superior to Cherry switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 18 November 2014, 08:51:42
Alps switches are superior to Cherry switches.

Well that's just the truth...unless you're talking about Black Alps, those just suck.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nesiax on Mon, 05 January 2015, 10:32:17
how about this raibow? :eek: not childish i think
Show Image
(http://www.key64.org/images/key64_ergonomic_keyboard_as_of_20130315.jpg/image_preview)


I bought color keycaps because I guess it will make the keyboard appealing for children, so I could introduce them into the exquisite art of touch typing, this way a child will know that every color corresponds to a specific finger and also it will be easy for them to found an A-pink key or a R-yellow rather than an A-black or and R-black.  Sounds crazy ? look at this thread at slashdot where  Finland dump handwriting in favor of touch typing (http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/11/29/1825237/finland-dumps-handwriting-in-favor-of-typing). However I do not agree with the fact children are not going to learn handwriting since I pretty sure it helps to develop prime mover skills as required.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 05 January 2015, 11:42:55
They'll still learn handwriting, only cursive is supposed to be optional.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:00:06
To the people that said BS sucks, I say to you you suck....lol.  Jk?  At any rate what'd don't you like about them and have you tried both m/f?
Also what do you like.  I've tried a fairly wide range of switches I think.  The big ones I haven't are blue alps, topre, mx black, and mx red along with more less popular variants and other vintage switches.  Of note,  didn't want to read 16 pages of tap talk to maybe find the answers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:02:27
To the people that said BS sucks, I say to you you suck....lol.  Jk?  At any rate what'd don't you like about them and have you tried both m/f?
Also what do you like.  I've tried a fairly wide range of switches I think.  The big ones I haven't are blue alps, topre, mx black, and mx red along with more less popular variants and other vintage switches.  Of note,  didn't want to read 16 pages of tap talk to maybe find the answers.

Model M BS does suck. Model F is awesome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:05:47
To the people that said BS sucks, I say to you you suck....lol.  Jk?  At any rate what'd don't you like about them and have you tried both m/f?
Also what do you like.  I've tried a fairly wide range of switches I think.  The big ones I haven't are blue alps, topre, mx black, and mx red along with more less popular variants and other vintage switches.  Of note,  didn't want to read 16 pages of tap talk to maybe find the answers.

Model M BS does suck. Model F is awesome.

M2 > F > M (1390120) > SSK > M > Unicomp
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:06:14
To the people that said BS sucks, I say to you you suck....lol.  Jk?  At any rate what'd don't you like about them and have you tried both m/f?
Also what do you like.  I've tried a fairly wide range of switches I think.  The big ones I haven't are blue alps, topre, mx black, and mx red along with more less popular variants and other vintage switches.  Of note,  didn't want to read 16 pages of tap talk to maybe find the answers.

Model M BS does suck. Model F is awesome.

Lies!

F>m2>m.

Love all 3 lol

@dante woah s fellow m2 lover.  That has to be unpopular lol
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:14:24
M2? Are you people serious? Sheesh. M2 is a much less crisp force curve than either M or F. M2 is the black Alps of buckling spring switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 05 January 2015, 23:06:13
M2? Are you people serious? Sheesh. M2 is a much less crisp force curve than either M or F. M2 is the black Alps of buckling spring switches.

Is the M2 less sturdy and less well made than other M's?  Yes.

IMHO is the M2 still more fun than typing on other M's?  Yes.

Black Alps huh? :D  I'd say M2 is more like the equivalent of Ducky XM Green Alps :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 05 January 2015, 23:14:22
M2?  I never typed on one so I can't tell you to be honest.  The only one I encountered had a broken spacebar, and I had my other keyboard anyway.  I just remember that it had some sort of plastic bar underneath it that was broken.  (That's about all I remember.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 01:17:40
- Thread necromancy is fun.
- I like MX browns.
- Keyboards without a numpad are fundamentally crippled. Having the numpad embedded as a FN layer is only acceptable if the keyboard has an ortholinear layout, and even then is annoying because I don't want to have to sit there holding a key. And apparently some separate numpads don't actually send the right codes so they're useless for the other thing I commonly use my numpad for, which is alt codes? Derp.
- It is infuriating, however, that numpads have a useless double-width zero and not a , key so that I don't have to use two hands or move my hand when typing something like 32,656,365. Not only do they need to exist, they need a , key.
- Keyboards without a windows key are completely useless. I use win key shortcuts all the time, and have never accidentally pressed it in a game.
- Enough keyboards are made with non-standard layouts like 1.5 1 1.5 6 1.5 1 1 1.5 and similar that I really wish places would start making keycap sets or partial sets to accommodate such things, since sadly nobody is going to be able to beat the 1.25 1.25 1.25 6.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 spacing into everyone, and even if they did, boards with nonstandard bottom rows already exist.
- My crappy old low-profile rubberdome Acer keyboard that came with my last computer was better for some games than my Monoprice with MX Blues.
- Artisan keycaps need to come in prettier colours and nicer shapes. They're a cool enough concept, but all the creepy faces/masks and boring/garish colours are kind of eh. Like, where's my clear sky blue iridescent microglitter mini castle? (Actually, I'm a tabletop gamer. That brings up a thought that I want to see Chessex making keycaps along with dice. Imagine an entire keyset of, say, Borealis Royal Purple. Your eyes would never recover and it'd be slipperier than a worn ABS spacebar, but damn would it look amazing.)
- Backlighting is only acceptable if it looks like a Christmas tree had a baby with your keyboard. If its only purpose is to illuminate the legends I'm not looking at when I type anyway, what's the point? I want to lose hours poking at a keyboard that does completely useless things with the lights when I press a key, or have it not light up at all except to tell me if I've accidentally hit caps lock.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Khers on Tue, 06 January 2015, 06:05:02
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 06 January 2015, 08:03:27

- It is infuriating, however, that numpads have a useless double-width zero and not a , key so that I don't have to use two hands or move my hand when typing something like 32,656,365. Not only do they need to exist, they need a , key.


I kind of like the numpad "0" but there is surely a need for a comma over there.

And, if you shrunk both the "0" and the "+" you could get another ":" (colon) which would be great for time and ratios.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xonar on Tue, 06 January 2015, 08:49:02
1. I think full size keyboards are the only ones worth using for an extended period of time.
2. My $5 White Alps keyboard will always be more fun to type on than a $500 custom Cherry board.
3. MX Browns aren't as bad as everyone says.
4. Cherry stabilizers are not terrible.
5. Trackballs are the worst.
6. The ErgoDox isn't appealing to me in the least.
7. HP's silver and black rubberdome board that I'm sure everyone here has encountered at some point isn't all that bad.
8. Artisan caps can look cool but not worth the high prices that they can fetch.
9. You can never have too many IBM keyboards.
10. Unicomp quality isn't as good but they feel exactly the same as a brand new original Model M. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
11. Heavily used Model M's feel better than new ones.
12. The XT Model F is not even worth owning because of that layout.
13. You're doing it wrong if you aren't bottoming out.
14. Apple makes the best scissor switch keyboards.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Tue, 06 January 2015, 08:54:15
BROWNS SUCK
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:05:26
-Every keyboard should have cable channels and rubber feet on all four corners.

-All keyboards using micro USB connectors should have L-shaped connectors, and ideally can rotate to both directions.

-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.

-Stop building hand-rests into keyboards. No one wants to use hard-plastic hand-rests when we could just buy comfortable foam/silicone/leather ones.

-Stop making keyboards with wide border frames. All they do is take up precious desk space and serve no function.

-All toggle-keys (such as CapsLock, NumLock, Scroll Lock) on a keyboard should have a visual indicator of what state it is in, and ideally it's on the keycap itself.

-We need a much wider variety of high-quality keyboard legend sticker sets--ones that don't rub off after a while, and have lots of varieties in design and color combinations.

-We need a superior version of the silicone keyboard protective skin/covers. The "transparent" ones are only semi-transparent and reduces readability of the legends too much, and the sheets are too thick. Why can't they be as thin and transparent as condoms?

-There needs to be a meet-up in the Sacramento area.

-Using white back-plate for LED backlit keyboards is a horrible idea (Razer Blackwidow Chroma, for example). The illuminated white back-plate is way too bright and competes with the illuminated legends, thus decreasing the readability/contrast of the legends drastically. Either have only the legends illuminated, or only the back-plate illuminated, but not both.

-Numpads on full-sized keyboards should always be on the left side, not the right. Putting it on the right is horrible for ergonomics.

-Fn keys on 60% keyboards should be placed at exactly between the X and C keys, and the M and , keys. Placing them any wider apart becomes less comfortable, while placing them closer together makes the spacebar too short and harder to press comfortably.

-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, such as when doing any type of audio/visual content creation, or simply just using lots of shorcuts/hotkeys on complex software when your hands are not in a standard home-row position. That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.

-Matias switches should be a lot more popular than they are--especially the quiet switch, because it has excellent tactility and is about as quiet as a standard rubber dome keyboard. Matias switches also have built-in LED on each switch, and no one's really taking advantage of that design, while Cherry MX LED swtiches copied that idea and are getting all the attention.

-Everyone who spends any significant amount of their communication time using a keyboard (messaging, forums, emails) should learn to touch-type fluently. Same for anyone who considers himself a writer, or does a significant amount of typing for any reason (school work, job, whatever).

Being able to touch-type fluently makes a profound difference. Not having to look down at the keyboard and only focusing on what you're typing on the screen is far better for the flow from idea to words appearing on the screen, since a whole layer of interruption/translation has been removed.

Imagine if you are driving a car and must constantly look down to see which gear you're on, which pedal you're stepping on, what direction your blinkers are set to, etc. That's what not being able to touch-type is like.

-Keyboard manufacturers really need to learn a few lessons from headphone manufacturers in terms of using a wider range of interesting, fashionable, and visually pleasing designs and color palettes. The kind of creativity seen in custom/DIY keyboards--that's what we should be seeing from the keyboard manufacturers, instead of the same boring designs, or on the other end of the spectrum, garish gamer-centric designs.

-WASD's custom keycap colors should be expanded to beyond those typical colors. We need colors like tea, cappucchino, cream, copper, gold, silver, khaki, ochre, peach, burgundy, mauve, yellow-green, indigo blue, pale yellow, etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:11:05
-Every keyboard should have cable channels and rubber feet on all four corners.

-All keyboards using micro USB connectors should have L-shaped connectors, and ideally can rotate to both directions.

-Stop building hand-rests into keyboards. No one wants to use hard-plastic hand-rests when we could just buy comfortable foam/silicone/leather ones.

-There needs to be a meet-up in the Sacramento area.

-Matias switches should be a lot more popular than they are--especially the quiet switch, because it has excellent tactility and is about as quiet as a standard rubber dome keyboard. Matias switches also have built-in LED on each switch, and no one's really taking advantage of that design, while Cherry MX LED swtiches copied that idea and are getting all the attention.

-Everyone who spends any significant amount of their communication time using a keyboard (messaging, forums, emails) should learn to touch-type fluently. Same for anyone who considers himself a writer, or does a significant amount of typing for any reason (school work, job, whatever).

-WASD's custom keycap colors should be expanded to beyond those typical colors. We need colors like tea, cappucchino, cream, copper, gold, silver, khaki, ochre, peach, burgundy, mauve, yellow-green, indigo blue, pale yellow, etc.
popular opinions

-All toggle-keys (such as CapsLock, NumLock, Scroll Lock) on a keyboard should have a visual indicator of what state it is in, and ideally it's on the keycap itself.
LEDs are a thing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:53:06
-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.
Can you explain this? Two-hand chords are much better for you than one-hand chords. Do you care about this mainly because your right hand is always on a mouse, or...?

Quote
-Stop building hand-rests into keyboards. No one wants to use hard-plastic hand-rests when we could just buy comfortable foam/silicone/leather ones.
People should ditch their palmrests altogether. Problem solved.

Quote
-All toggle-keys (such as CapsLock, NumLock, Scroll Lock) on a keyboard should have a visual indicator of what state it is in, and ideally it's on the keycap itself.
Toggle keys (and in general, other modes in user interfaces) are fundamentally broken. If we had enough thumb keys on a keyboard, we would have no need for modes. Caps lock and num lock are particularly stupid types of modes, based on poorly designed assumptions from 30+ years ago.

[On the other hand, firmware should be programmable enough that if a user really wants to create some kind of mode, e.g. for Photoshop or a game or whatever, it should be easy to do.]

Quote
-We need a much wider variety of high-quality keyboard legend sticker sets--ones that don't rub off after a while, and have lots of varieties in design and color combinations.

-We need a superior version of the silicone keyboard protective skin/covers. The "transparent" ones are only semi-transparent and reduces readability of the legends too much, and the sheets are too thick. Why can't they be as thin and transparent as condoms?
These two are indeed unpopular. Who the hell wants stickers or condoms on their keyboard?

Quote
-Numpads on full-sized keyboards should always be on the left side, not the right. Putting it on the right is horrible for ergonomics.
Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.

Quote
-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, such as when doing any type of audio/visual content creation, or simply just using lots of shorcuts/hotkeys on complex software when your hands are not in a standard home-row position. That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.
More convenient for you maybe. The statement is only an “unpopular opinion” because you’re judging other people for having different preferences. (And why? Like seriously, who are you to judge what is a good or bad reason for someone else’s preferences.)


Quote
-Keyboard manufacturers really need to learn a few lessons from headphone manufacturers in terms of using a wider range of interesting, fashionable, and visually pleasing designs and color palettes. The kind of creativity seen in custom/DIY keyboards--that's what we should be seeing from the keyboard manufacturers, instead of the same boring designs, or on the other end of the spectrum, garish gamer-centric designs.
Keep in mind, headphones are primarily fashion accessories, and playing music is a secondary function. Keyboards are not fashion accessories, and therefore the market for them is different. The market for stylish keyboards is a tiny tiny niche, because almost no one judges someone by how stylish their keyboard looks, and most keyboards stay at people’s desks. For the same reason, people don’t need to have stylish bathroom scales or stylish waffle irons.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:56:42
This is interesting arguing unpopular comments about keyboards?  Is there a plus side to this?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:57:08
Keep in mind, headphones are primarily fashion accessories, and playing music is a secondary function.
Tell that to anyone not wearing Beats
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 06 January 2015, 15:11:12
Quote
Quote
-We need a much wider variety of high-quality keyboard legend sticker sets--ones that don't rub off after a while, and have lots of varieties in design and color combinations.

-We need a superior version of the silicone keyboard protective skin/covers. The "transparent" ones are only semi-transparent and reduces readability of the legends too much, and the sheets are too thick. Why can't they be as thin and transparent as condoms?
These two are indeed unpopular. Who the hell wants stickers or condoms on their keyboard?
Well, I do have a condom for my keyboard; it's transparent, thin, whatever. It's supposed to be used in medical institutions.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: drewba on Tue, 06 January 2015, 16:18:06
Quote
-Numpads on full-sized keyboards should always be on the left side, not the right. Putting it on the right is horrible for ergonomics.
Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.

Yes, these are the only two applications where a numpad is necessary  :))     /Eyeroll.exe

My phone system at work is VOIP based, so I'm using my numpad constantly to dial numbers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Tue, 06 January 2015, 17:41:12
Well, I do have a condom for my keyboard; it's transparent, thin, whatever. It's supposed to be used in medical institutions.

More information, please. What is this mythical keyboard condom you speak of?  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rainb1ood on Tue, 06 January 2015, 17:43:05
I don't get the DSA craze this 2014 that happened.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 06 January 2015, 18:16:02
Well, I do have a condom for my keyboard; it's transparent, thin, whatever. It's supposed to be used in medical institutions.

More information, please. What is this mythical keyboard condom you speak of?  :eek:
(http://i.imgur.com/peAf4sz.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Tue, 06 January 2015, 18:33:26
-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.
Can you explain this? Two-hand chords are much better for you than one-hand chords. Do you care about this mainly because your right hand is always on a mouse, or...?

If I happen to be using the other hand, such as holding a drink, a snack, a reference image I'm working from (for art), or playing on a musical keyboard (in the middle of composing/recording), or anything else that requires my other hand, I want to be able to operate the Fn functions with my other hand, such as play/pause/skip music that is playing.

-We need a much wider variety of high-quality keyboard legend sticker sets--ones that don't rub off after a while, and have lots of varieties in design and color combinations.

-We need a superior version of the silicone keyboard protective skin/covers. The "transparent" ones are only semi-transparent and reduces readability of the legends too much, and the sheets are too thick. Why can't they be as thin and transparent as condoms?
These two are indeed unpopular. Who the hell wants stickers or condoms on their keyboard?

Anyone who types in another language and can't find keyboards catering to that language (they make legend replacement stickers in various languages), or people with eye-sight problems (they make large legend stickers), or people who want to highlight certain keys for quicker identification but don't want to swap out entire keys, and so on.

As for a keyboard protector membrane of some kind, if you have never spilled a drink or dropped food crumbs into the crevices of your keyboard, then you wouldn't understand.

-Numpads on full-sized keyboards should always be on the left side, not the right. Putting it on the right is horrible for ergonomics.
Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.

I do content creation (audio/visual), and I use the numpad to into parameter numbers such as exposure, color, contrast, audio sample position, timeline position, synth programming parameters, etc.

-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, such as when doing any type of audio/visual content creation, or simply just using lots of shorcuts/hotkeys on complex software when your hands are not in a standard home-row position. That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.
More convenient for you maybe. The statement is only an “unpopular opinion” because you’re judging other people for having different preferences. (And why? Like seriously, who are you to judge what is a good or bad reason for someone else’s preferences.)

If my driving analogy didn't convince you, then you won't be convinced, and that's fine.

-Keyboard manufacturers really need to learn a few lessons from headphone manufacturers in terms of using a wider range of interesting, fashionable, and visually pleasing designs and color palettes. The kind of creativity seen in custom/DIY keyboards--that's what we should be seeing from the keyboard manufacturers, instead of the same boring designs, or on the other end of the spectrum, garish gamer-centric designs.
Keep in mind, headphones are primarily fashion accessories, and playing music is a secondary function. Keyboards are not fashion accessories, and therefore the market for them is different. The market for stylish keyboards is a tiny tiny niche, because almost no one judges someone by how stylish their keyboard looks, and most keyboards stay at people’s desks. For the same reason, people don’t need to have stylish bathroom scales or stylish waffle irons.

There are plenty of headphone designs by headphone companies that place audio quality above all else, yet still have beautiful designs that are tasteful and functional, and not at all catered teenagers blindly following trends (look at the headphones around $1,000 or more). Beats is not even really considered part of the head-fi movement, and it's only very recently that the headphone community started to give it a little respect, after they started releasing headphones that actually sounded pretty good, instead of being just fashion pieces that sound like crap.

Also, it's not about judging people by their keyboards--it's about aesthetic pleasure one feels when using one's own keyboards. Good looking design is just a pleasure to behold--you get pleasure from it. If keyboards were simply thought of as completely utilitarian and no one gives a damn about how they look  (like a USB hub or a memory card, for example), then there wouldn't be a hardcore DIY/custom community in the first place.

Well, I do have a condom for my keyboard; it's transparent, thin, whatever. It's supposed to be used in medical institutions.

More information, please. What is this mythical keyboard condom you speak of?  :eek:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/peAf4sz.jpg)


That's basically one of those "shower-cap" styled keyboard protectors. I went through a bunch of those already--they will tear at the spots your nails scrape on most open (it's always the A key for me), and I'd then have to put a piece of clear tape over that spot. Also, it's too loose and not tight enough, so there are wrinkles that reflect the light and obscure the keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 19:36:58
-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.
If I happen to be using the other hand, such as holding a drink, a snack, a reference image I'm working from (for art), or playing on a musical keyboard (in the middle of composing/recording), or anything else that requires my other hand, I want to be able to operate the Fn functions with my other hand, such as play/pause/skip music that is playing.
Play/pause/skip is far from the only thing someone might want to put on a function layer.

For example: I have on function layers: mouse and keyboard navigation (keyboard navigation ends up taking maybe 40-50 shortcuts if you want to be able to do everything, but I still need to work on figuring out the best organization), numbers, symbols of various sorts, alphabets in other languages, common blobs of text I find myself repeatedly typing, tab/window/application switching, quick access to various useful directories, text processing commands, commands for sending the current selection to various applications or dumping it to a file somewhere, commands for popping up the clipboard history and putting stuff onto / off of it, commands for searching the current window/field for the text typed, commands for taking various sorts of screenshots, various audio and media controls. Hopefully in the future I can get shortcuts up for macro recording and playback. Etc. etc.

If you tried to fit this all on one hand on a standard layout keyboard, it would be nearly impossible to keep it straight. By properly arranging things though, and taking advantage of extra thumb keys and two-handed chords, it’s possible to pack a huge amount of functionality into a pretty well organized and easy to remember hierarchy of shortcuts, and make routine computer use dramatically more efficient.

If all you need is play/pause/skip for some music while your other hand is holding a snack, then sure, put it on one hand. Or better, just dedicate some separate keys to just those functions.

Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.
Quote
I do content creation (audio/visual), and I use the numpad to into parameter numbers such as exposure, color, contrast, audio sample position, timeline position, synth programming parameters, etc.
Numbers (in a numpad arrangement or some other arrangement, but probably not just all in a row) definitely belong on a function layer. Reaching up to the top row or over to a discrete numpad is a huge slowdown when typing on a standard keyboard. A numpad on the left is just as obnoxious a slowdown as one on the right, in addition to being the wrong shape to be easily used by the left hand.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with using a standard-layout numpad for whatever arbitrary purpose. It just happens to have mostly been designed for data entry in fields such as accounting, and is therefore a pretty awful layout for almost every other purpose. It’s better than the standard number row for typing numbers, but now that we have fully programmable firmware and the capacity to make keyboards with arbitrary layouts, we can do much much better.

Better input devices for “audio/visual content creation” would have keys in a hand-friendly arrangement for both hands, with a layout optimized to manage adjusting whatever relevant parameters you need with the same hand you use for other keyboard commands. They would additionally include multiple analog inputs (knobs, sliders, trackballs, touchscreens) to allow you to adjust those parameters in an analog way with real-time feedback instead of only typing numbers. A numpad is only a useful tool for this kind of purpose because the other easily available tools are even less effective, not because it’s inherently well suited to the task.

-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, [...] That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.
More convenient for you maybe.[...]
Quote
If my driving analogy didn't convince you, then you won't be convinced, and that's fine.
Your driving analogy was about exactly the opposite thing (touch typing advocacy). I’m here objecting to the claim that legends are necessary to avoid constant workflow interruption. I’m pretty much entirely indifferent to the presence or absence of legends on keys, and I can’t think of a time when my workflow was interrupted by lack of legends. I suspect most people with blank keyboards feel the same, or they wouldn’t use them.

Basically, you’re projecting your own need for legends / lack of experience with blanks onto other people.

Quote
There are plenty of headphone designs by headphone companies that place audio quality above all else, yet still have beautiful designs that are tasteful and functional, and not at all catered teenagers blindly following trends (look at the headphones around $1,000 or more).
For $1000 or more you can get a very attractive (all metal, very fancy plastic, carbon fiber, or wood, painted whatever kind of color you want, with nice keycaps in any arbitrary color, and your favorite keyswitches with several choices of layout) keyboard. So presumably that’s not what you were talking about before.

But beyond that, any headphones that cost $1000 are absolutely fashion devices / status symbols first and headphones second, in the same way that luxury watches or handbags are.

Sure, people buy expensive cars, handbags, suits, shoes, watches, etc. because they like high quality things, but that’s not the primary reason any of those products exist or are priced so high. The primary purpose is to signal wealth/status/identity/values to other people: that’s a large part of what your word “tasteful” means (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_(sociology)#Imitation_and_distinction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_(sociology)#Imitation_and_distinction)).

Since for most people, keyboards are not on social display and therefore not a positional good (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_good), the market for very fancy keyboards is a small niche compared to watches, headphones, etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 06 January 2015, 20:34:18
There is a lot of vitriol spewing out here.

There are a lot of people who work with numbers who are not accountants or clerks.
For people who work with numbers, and there are a lot of us, the numpad is vital and pleasant to use.

And I still maintain that detachable cables are simply problems that may not have happened yet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 20:54:55
There is a lot of vitriol spewing out here.
I don’t think anyone here feels angry/caustic/cruel/bitter or is aiming for that as a tone, but note, the premise of this thread is basically “try to go troll each-other”.

Quote
There are a lot of people who work with numbers who are not accountants or clerks.
For people who work with numbers, and there are a lot of us, the numpad is vital and pleasant to use.
The numpad as it exists today is IMO a very ineffective design for generic “working with numbers”. So much so that a properly configured embedded numpad in a programmable 60% keyboard is more efficient, less error prone, and more comfortable for almost every such use case. Unfortunately most of the embedded function-layer numpads in 60% boards are also quite poorly designed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Tue, 06 January 2015, 21:16:29
-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.
If I happen to be using the other hand, such as holding a drink, a snack, a reference image I'm working from (for art), or playing on a musical keyboard (in the middle of composing/recording), or anything else that requires my other hand, I want to be able to operate the Fn functions with my other hand, such as play/pause/skip music that is playing.
Play/pause/skip is far from the only thing someone might want to put on a function layer.

For example: I have on function layers: mouse and keyboard navigation (keyboard navigation ends up taking maybe 40-50 shortcuts if you want to be able to do everything, but I still need to work on figuring out the best organization), numbers, symbols of various sorts, alphabets in other languages, common blobs of text I find myself repeatedly typing, tab/window/application switching, quick access to various useful directories, text processing commands, commands for sending the current selection to various applications or dumping it to a file somewhere, commands for popping up the clipboard history and putting stuff onto / off of it, commands for searching the current window/field for the text typed, commands for taking various sorts of screenshots, various audio and media controls. Hopefully in the future I can get shortcuts up for macro recording and playback. Etc. etc.

If you tried to fit this all on one hand on a standard layout keyboard, it would be nearly impossible to keep it straight. By properly arranging things though, and taking advantage of extra thumb keys and two-handed chords, it’s possible to pack a huge amount of functionality into a pretty well organized and easy to remember hierarchy of shortcuts, and make routine computer use dramatically more efficient.

If all you need is play/pause/skip for some music while your other hand is holding a snack, then sure, put it on one hand. Or better, just dedicate some separate keys to just those functions.

I have a X-Keys XK-24 for all the often used macros, shortcuts, hotkeys, etc, so I'm only using the Fn layer on my keyboard for whatever else I can't fit onto the XK-24. If you are using the keyboard for everything, then yes, having Fn layer keys all over the keyboard for both hand would be necessary.

As a related note, spiceBar's SpaceFN script for AutoHotKey allows the spacebar to be turned into the Fn key, so it becomes quite easy for one hand to reach most of the keys mapped to the Fn layer. I've been experimenting with it and have an on-going thread about it:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67243.0

Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.
I do content creation (audio/visual), and I use the numpad to into parameter numbers such as exposure, color, contrast, audio sample position, timeline position, synth programming parameters, etc.
Numbers (in a numpad arrangement or some other arrangement, but probably not just all in a row) definitely belong on a function layer. Reaching up to the top row or over to a discrete numpad is a huge slowdown when typing on a standard keyboard. A numpad on the left is just as obnoxious a slowdown as one on the right, in addition to being the wrong shape to be easily used by the left hand.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with using a standard-layout numpad for whatever arbitrary purpose. It just happens to have mostly been designed for data entry in fields such as accounting, and is therefore a pretty awful layout for almost every other purpose. It’s better than the standard number row for typing numbers, but now that we have fully programmable firmware and the capacity to make keyboards with arbitrary layouts, we can do much much better.

Better input devices for “audio/visual content creation” would have keys in a hand-friendly arrangement for both hands, with a layout optimized to manage adjusting whatever relevant parameters you need with the same hand you use for other keyboard commands. They would additionally include multiple analog inputs (knobs, sliders, trackballs, touchscreens) to allow you to adjust those parameters in an analog way with real-time feedback instead of only typing numbers. A numpad is only a useful tool for this kind of purpose because the other easily available tools are even less effective, not because it’s inherently well suited to the task.

Yes, but a numpad is what most of us have (on our keyboards or as a standalone unit), and in my case, it happens to be the best way to input numbers for editing parameters. A simple example: Let's say I'm editing photos in Lightroom, and I know I want to drop the exposure by exactly 2.75 stops. It's far faster to type that in a numpad with my other hand on the mouse than on the top number row on a keyboard (and I keep one hand on the mouse because I'm jumping between parameters constantly).

And you're right--a lot of so-called "dedicated" input devices for content creation (such as the many DAW controllers) aren't really all that great in the first place, I have never used one that is significantly better than just using the mouse and keyboard.

 
-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, [...] That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.
More convenient for you maybe.[...]
Quote
If my driving analogy didn't convince you, then you won't be convinced, and that's fine.
Your driving analogy was about exactly the opposite thing (touch typing advocacy). I’m here objecting to the claim that legends are necessary to avoid constant workflow interruption. I’m pretty much entirely indifferent to the presence or absence of legends on keys, and I can’t think of a time when my workflow was interrupted by lack of legends. I suspect most people with blank keyboards feel the same, or they wouldn’t use them.

Basically, you’re projecting your own need for legends / lack of experience with blanks onto other people.

Sorry, that was a brain-fart. My mind skipped to another issue entire when I typed that.

To address the actual point you made, I would say that blank keycaps and the ability to have the entire layout of the keyboard so well memorized as to have it be second nature, is definitely not something the majority of keyboard enthusiasts have accomplished, or will accomplish. Although that's definitely an "unpopular" thing, since only a small percentage of keyboard enthusiasts have developed or want to develop that ability, my point was that for a large portion of the people, saying "learn to touch-type" is not a good enough reason to justify blank keycaps, since touch-typing isn't the only way to use a keyboard.

There are plenty of headphone designs by headphone companies that place audio quality above all else, yet still have beautiful designs that are tasteful and functional, and not at all catered teenagers blindly following trends (look at the headphones around $1,000 or more).
For $1000 or more you can get a very attractive (all metal, very fancy plastic, carbon fiber, or wood, painted whatever kind of color you want, with nice keycaps in any arbitrary color, and your favorite keyswitches with several choices of layout) keyboard. So presumably that’s not what you were talking about before.

But beyond that, any headphones that cost $1000 are absolutely fashion devices / status symbols first and headphones second, in the same way that luxury watches or handbags are.

Sure, people buy expensive cars, handbags, suits, shoes, watches, etc. because they like high quality things, but that’s not the primary reason any of those products exist or are priced so high. The primary purpose is to signal wealth/status/identity/values to other people: that’s a large part of what your word “tasteful” means (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_(sociology)#Imitation_and_distinction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_(sociology)#Imitation_and_distinction)).

Since for most people, keyboards are not on social display and therefore not a positional good (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_good), the market for very fancy keyboards is a small niche compared to watches, headphones, etc.

I never wear my expensive headphones out in public, so for me it's got nothing to do with fashion. It's the same for most people who own expensive headphones--those stay at home, and often in protective cases when not in use. Also, expensive headphones from serious headphone companies (as opposed to opportunistic marketing schemes in the form of ****ty headphones that are constructed with pointlessly expensive material like 14-karet gold earcups or diamond crusted whatever) are definitely not about fashion or status first--it's about the sound quality first and foremost. The headphone companies know this because the head-fi community will tear their new products apart if its sound quality does not match its price point (it wasn't always like that, but the community has learned to discern from real quality from marketing hype, especially with the rising prevalence of measurement tests). There was a time when companies could get away with ****ty sounding but expensive headphones if they spin the marketing just right, but those days are over. Just look at all the backlash that happened with Beats--there is so much negativity regarding that brand now in online comment sections--people who feel like it's their duty to inform the public about what crappy headphones Beats are, and that prompted Beats to develop good sounding headphones to repair the company's image.

Beautiful design isn't just limited to expensive headphones though--there are plenty of cheap headphones with very nice designs, and at their price-point, it's not a status symbol, although I guess because cheap headphones are often worn while in public, they can be fashion statements. But who's to say keyboards can't be the same? For example, people who attend LAN parties. All that computer case modding--that's the geek's version of status symbol/fashion/street cred, and it certainly extends to keyboards, right?

Anyway, my original point was that "I" personally think visually appealing industrial design is never a bad thing, for anything, and it would be nice to see more variety of designs in keyboards. A good place to start is more variety of color palettes for mass-produced keyboards. Imagine if we had the same kind of choices in design/colors for keyboards as we do for smartphone cases. I know you're going to say that it's because smartphone cases are fashion statements, and we'll end up going around in circles, so I'll just say I know that, and I'm merely expressing a wish.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 06 January 2015, 21:42:18
Jacobolus - for whatever reasons, when I attempt to quote you in a reply, Geekhack crashes.

About the numpad, I could not possibly disagree more.

The numpad as it exists today is IMO a very ineffective design for generic “working with numbers”.


Are you talking about something that has to be toggled?

That is an absolute deal-killer in every situation as far as I am concerned. I despise the very existence of toggles and want dedicated keys for everything that is important. I have no problem with multi-key shortcuts, but the idea that I have to turn something off or on to get arrow keys? Are you ****ing kidding me?

Naturally, I have a large desk and am happy to also have a large keyboard. But to work in a spreadsheet with keys that can be either numbers or letters and to have some operation that is constantly happening to jump in and out? And having to remember what was on and what was off? No way I could live with that.

When I bought a laptop, a dedicated numpad was on of the most important features for me.

Pardon my vitriol, but dedicated numpads and arrow keys are precious and important to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 21:56:39
I think what is throwing me off is the topic of the thread itself.  Are these personal opinions that are unpopular?  Are these things we see other users saying on threads on this and other forums?  And what makes it unpopular or popular?  I guess my logic went out the window here.

Fohat, you are right on point.  I'm just confused about this thread in general and how to respond.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 21:59:30
I think what is throwing me off is the topic of the thread itself.  Are these personal opinions that are unpopular?  Are these things we see other users saying on threads on this and other forums?  And what makes it unpopular or popular?  I guess my logic went out the window here.
The same reason that makes literally any other opinion unpopular: it contradicts the popular opinion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 22:09:42
About the numpad, I could not possibly disagree more. Are you talking about something that has to be toggled?
I don’t like things that get toggled.

For me, the best option is to have a shift-type thumb key that turns the opposite hand’s main section into a numpad of some sort. (I personally prefer having each finger get 2 numbers instead of a 3x4 grid arrangement, but sticking to the classic grid would reduce learning time.) For some people having a toggle-able mode as an option might be nice. Personally I don’t like modes.

But even if we decide that the numpad should be a separate discrete unit with its own dedicated keys for all the numbers and operators, it’s trivially easy to make something better than the standard numpad design.

Quote
But to work in a spreadsheet with keys that can be either numbers or letters and to have some operation that is constantly happening to jump in and out?
So in other words, you’re hopping your hand back and forth between the keyboard and numpad constantly, to type both letters and numbers into your spreadsheet cells? Sounds very inefficient, error-prone, and uncomfortable to me.

Same kind of slowdown (and RSI implications) as you’d get from alternating between keyboard and mouse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 22:20:18
It's like having an 80%, 60% 75% 40% or whatever percent keyboard.
When you need a 100% keyboard, you realize it when you are on something that doesn't have it.

I suppose all FADS eventually FADE.

I can't wait until a few years from now...

You have to use your hands to use those things?  That's so outdated!  Why in the world would you need that?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 22:46:06
I prefer thick ABS double shot key caps with cherry profile over any other type of caps.
I want my space bars to be made of PBT because I hate to get them with shiny spots.
I prefer neutral colors for my caps, I just do not get it when people buy sets in colors like pink, and light blue.
I prefer to use plastic cases instead of those ultra expensive aluminum ones.
I hate leds in my keyboard, there is always good illumination at my desk, and my keyboard is not a x-mas tree, or a stop light, thus there is no reason to adorn it.
Topre is just an expensive type of rubberdome board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 22:55:54
I prefer thick ABS double shot key caps with cherry profile over any other type of caps.
I want my space bars to be made of PBT because I hate to get them with shiny spots.
I prefer neutral colors for my caps, I just do not get it when people buy sets in colors like pink, and light blue.
I hate leds in my keyboard, there is always good illumination at my desk, and my keyboard is not a x-mas tree, or a stop light, thus there is no reason to adorn it.
All popular opinions

Topre is just an expensive type of rubberdome board.
not even opinionated, literally true
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dragonken on Tue, 06 January 2015, 23:02:10
backlight and RGB switches are unnecessary
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 06 January 2015, 23:05:14
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 06 January 2015, 23:48:01
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.

I got the k60 and k90 back in the day...   they both had the repeat key issue which corsair never fixed.... even after the patch it still did it sometimes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 07 January 2015, 00:39:22
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 07 January 2015, 00:44:49
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try

But, but Corsair!  /s
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 07 January 2015, 04:08:33
Quote from: Lunatique
The headphone companies know this because the head-fi community will tear their new products apart if its sound quality does not match its price point (it wasn't always like that, but the community has learned to discern from real quality from marketing hype, especially with the rising prevalence of measurement tests).
This comedy is pure gold.

Good luck tearing anything apart on head-fi, especially if it has something to do with sponsors (yes, head-fi is an ad site). Hint: you'll get banned pretty fast.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 07 January 2015, 08:15:30
So in other words, you’re hopping your hand back and forth between the keyboard and numpad constantly, to type both letters and numbers into your spreadsheet cells? Sounds very inefficient, error-prone, and uncomfortable to me.

You are probably right on that, but it is still far better than any of the other alternatives like shifting with the left hand to go between "L" and "3".

Generally I do all the number work with my right hand and let the left take over the whole alphabet.

And I don't know how it is that telephone numpads have the low numbers at the top and computer numpads have low numbers at the bottom, but that does not seem to bother me (after all these years).

PS - why is it that quoting you hangs my connection but it does not happen with others?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Wed, 07 January 2015, 09:17:34
Quote from: Lunatique
The headphone companies know this because the head-fi community will tear their new products apart if its sound quality does not match its price point (it wasn't always like that, but the community has learned to discern from real quality from marketing hype, especially with the rising prevalence of measurement tests).
This comedy is pure gold.

Good luck tearing anything apart on head-fi, especially if it has something to do with sponsors (yes, head-fi is an ad site). Hint: you'll get banned pretty fast.
I have never been banned there, and I'm pretty outspoken about a lot of the stuff I think are audiofool snake oil marketing stunts, as well as ludicrous diminishing returns. And that never stopped Jude from contacting me every year asking for permission to quote my reviews for their gift guides.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 07 January 2015, 10:01:35
Haha, ever mentioned blind testing? ^_^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Wed, 07 January 2015, 12:23:03
Haha, ever mentioned blind testing? ^_^
I harp on and on about the necessity of double-blind tests, how headphone amps are mostly a waste of money, how overrated the HD800 is, how lossless files and "high-end" portable players are all a waste of money, how expensive cables are snake oil, and advocate EQ'ing headphones properly with free/cheap parametric EQ instead of the endless treadmill of perpetual upgrades, etc. I also write in-depth posts dispelling common misconceptions in audio, the dangers of misguided priorities and dimishing returns, the importance of using correct terminologies to describe audio and avoiding hyperbole, and so on. Not only am I not banned, but actually well-respected in that circle.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Wed, 07 January 2015, 13:39:05
I harp on and on about the necessity of double-blind tests, how headphone amps are mostly a waste of money, how overrated the HD800 is, how lossless files and "high-end" portable players are all a waste of money, how expensive cables are snake oil, and advocate EQ'ing headphones properly with free/cheap parametric EQ instead of the endless treadmill of perpetual upgrades, etc. I also write in-depth posts dispelling common misconceptions in audio, the dangers of misguided priorities and dimishing returns, the importance of using correct terminologies to describe audio and avoiding hyperbole, and so on. Not only am I not banned, but actually well-respected in that circle.
first post in this thread that legitimately annoys me is about audio instead of keyboard. go figure
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Thu, 08 January 2015, 09:47:59
I can't imagine why that rustles your jimmies.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: meztek on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:24:01
I cannot tell if this opinion is unpopular or not but I cannot stand cherry keyswitches.  Blues are barely tolerable compared to white ALPS and all the rest of them are worth nothing.  Especially the non-clicky ones.  Black ALPS are non-clicky tactile switches and they feel *tactile*, whereas by comparison Cherry MX Red, Black, Brown, etc. feel like mush.  I liken them to an expensive way to produce the same mushy feel of rubber dome keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:40:38
RetroBlight is bonkers...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 09 January 2015, 01:50:21
cherry sucks
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 09 January 2015, 07:11:44
Cherry ML > Topre ;D Or is that just controversial instead of unpopular... let's see from the number of responses.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 09 January 2015, 07:39:03
Cherry ML > Topre ;D Or is that just controversial instead of unpopular... let's see from the number of responses.

 :eek:

wat
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 09 January 2015, 07:39:57
Cherry ML > Topre ;D Or is that just controversial instead of unpopular... let's see from the number of responses.
People seem to hate ML, the biggest problem being you pretty much have to hit right in the center of the cap to actuate. So yeah, unpopular
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 09 January 2015, 07:40:59
A contradiction is not an argument.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 09 January 2015, 08:25:01
Ooh... I realised I left out an important word. Sorry.

Lubed Cherry ML > Topre...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 09 January 2015, 09:12:07
I think what is throwing me off is the topic of the thread itself.  Are these personal opinions that are unpopular?  Are these things we see other users saying on threads on this and other forums?  And what makes it unpopular or popular?  I guess my logic went out the window here.

Fohat, you are right on point.  I'm just confused about this thread in general and how to respond.


You are not expected to respond, just turn your back to the confusion, and be happy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:21:47
Cherry ML > Topre ;D Or is that just controversial instead of unpopular... let's see from the number of responses.

dems is fighting words
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lurch on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:25:14
typing with long fingernails is the best
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: howthegodschill on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:30:50
typing with long fingernails is the best
I agree 100% with you on this. Although, I have this odd anxiety when my fingernails are too long.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:32:19
fingernails can't stick out past the finger.  CANNOT!!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:41:38
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try

Friend asked for advice about getting a mechanical keyboard. I gave him lots of fair and balanced advice about switch types and keyboards. Gets Blackwidow with Razer Greens. Ah well, at least I'll get to try Razer switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 09 January 2015, 12:34:53
typing with long fingernails is the best
(https://cdn.mediacru.sh/_/_EL3z-R5kC7H.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Justintoxicated on Fri, 09 January 2015, 13:08:31
1) I like Cherry Browns for a do it all option.

2) I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops (but they don't make scissor switches anymore so they must be unpopular)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 09 January 2015, 13:39:15
2) I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops (but they don't make scissor switches anymore so they must be unpopular)
Who doesn't make scissor switches anymore and what does it have to do with popularity?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 09 January 2015, 13:42:04
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try

Friend asked for advice about getting a mechanical keyboard. I gave him lots of fair and balanced advice about switch types and keyboards. Gets Blackwidow with Razer Greens. Ah well, at least I'll get to try Razer switches.

a friend asked me for advice also.


lol jk i dont have friends :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 09 January 2015, 13:48:16
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try

Friend asked for advice about getting a mechanical keyboard. I gave him lots of fair and balanced advice about switch types and keyboards. Gets Blackwidow with Razer Greens. Ah well, at least I'll get to try Razer switches.

a friend asked me for advice also.


lol jk i dont have friends :(
awww is ok
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Justintoxicated on Fri, 09 January 2015, 19:57:39
2) I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops (but they don't make scissor switches anymore so they must be unpopular)
Who doesn't make scissor switches anymore and what does it have to do with popularity?

They are no longer popular on laptops, obviously, because they no longer exist on any laptop I can find.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 09 January 2015, 20:00:27
They are no longer popular on laptops, obviously, because they no longer exist on any laptop I can find.
Wait what? Most laptops now use scissor switches. The most obvious trendsetting example is all the Apple laptops of the past 15+ years, but most PC laptops now have also used them for some time.

Quote
I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops
I think you must have some idiosyncratic definition of “scissor switches” because all the “chiclet” boards I’ve ever seen use scissor switches.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Scissor_switch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Fri, 09 January 2015, 22:36:23
They are no longer popular on laptops, obviously, because they no longer exist on any laptop I can find.
Wait what? Most laptops now use scissor switches. The most obvious trendsetting example is all the Apple laptops of the past 15+ years, but most PC laptops now have also used them for some time.

Quote
I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops
I think you must have some idiosyncratic definition of “scissor switches” because all the “chiclet” boards I’ve ever seen use scissor switches.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Scissor_switch

All of them?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/ZXSpectrum48k.jpg
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 09 January 2015, 22:52:32
Quote
I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops
I think you must have some idiosyncratic definition of “scissor switches” because all the “chiclet” boards I’ve ever seen use scissor switches.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Scissor_switch

99% of chiclet keyboards are still ****.  I'd rather type on a ****ty RD keyboard than an Apple aluminum keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: danwomansan on Fri, 09 January 2015, 23:07:12
key noise is an unnecessary form of tactile response that too many people look for in keyboards

the wire out from keyboards is often put on the wrong side and should be on the left, so it is less likely to interfere with the mouse for users who use the mouse with the right hand

I like the feel of keys on chiclet keyboards (minus actually pressing them in)

I kind of like when the enter or right shift keys on my crappy spare keyboard get stuck when I'm typing slowly

I prefer prying off caps with a sort of lever over pulling them out properly and wish it was more common for caps to be made to come off this way
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 09 January 2015, 23:35:59
key noise is an unnecessary form of tactile response that too many people look for in keyboards
tactile (adj): of or connected with the sense of touch

Noise is not tactile. I think the opinion you were looking to express is something like: “Keyswitches should be completely silent.”
Quote
I prefer prying off caps with a sort of lever over pulling them out properly and wish it was more common for caps to be made to come off this way
What does it mean to pull them out properly? I pretty much always remove keycaps with a pair of butter knives. Works way better than any fancy keypuller.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 09 January 2015, 23:38:31

key noise is an unnecessary form of tactile response that too many people look for in keyboards
tactile (adj): of or connected with the sense of touch

Noise is not tactile. I think the opinion you were looking to express is something like: “Keyswitches should be completely silent.”
Quote
I prefer prying off caps with a sort of lever over pulling them out properly and wish it was more common for caps to be made to come off this way
What does it mean to pull them out properly? I pretty much always remove keycaps with a pair of butter knives. Works way better than any fancy keypuller.

Likely what properly means is with a keycap puller.  Pulling straight up with some side to side wiggle if necessary.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: danwomansan on Sat, 10 January 2015, 00:17:05
tactile (adj): of or connected with the sense of touch

Noise is not tactile. I think the opinion you were looking to express is something like: “Keyswitches should be completely silent.”
oh thanks, not great at english
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dodzylla on Sat, 10 January 2015, 04:46:06
I ****** hate ABS vs PBT , both of them are good....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Mon, 12 January 2015, 10:28:55
I ****** hate ABS vs PBT , both of them are good....

Would you not concede that there is a definite difference between the feel though?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yiajiipamu on Mon, 12 January 2015, 11:51:30
Granite sets look bad IMO.
Rubber domes can actually be pretty nice, and I feel that people will immediately hate a keyboard for it being a rubber dome without giving it a chance which I find to be ridiculous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Mon, 12 January 2015, 12:07:24
Rubber domes can actually be pretty nice, and I feel that people will immediately hate a keyboard for it being a rubber dome without giving it a chance which I find to be ridiculous.

Totally agree. I think as a community we should promote the view of appreciating the benefits of having a better quality keyboard instead of the 'mechanical or gtfo' view. I know someone who has a fairly mundane dell rubber dome keyboard. It is actually very nice to type on. What is important is not having an expensive keyboard, but appreciating that not all keyboards are the same and that it is important to not just put up with a board that you do not enjoy using. I often see (particularly on /r/MK) posts to the effect of 'is this mechanical?', to which the reply is invariably 'no' and the reply of the OP to that post is 'damn it. I guess I'll have to keep on looking' or something else to that effect. They are not giving a thought to the merits of that keyboard, only worrying about weather it fits one criteria. It is totally not as black and white as 'rubber = worthless, mechanical = holy'. I'm sure many people find out about these communities and are scared off by the prices of seemingly 'entry level' boards.

TLDR: good rubber needs more love.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Mon, 12 January 2015, 18:10:59
Rubber domes can actually be pretty nice, and I feel that people will immediately hate a keyboard for it being a rubber dome without giving it a chance which I find to be ridiculous.

Totally agree. I think as a community we should promote the view of appreciating the benefits of having a better quality keyboard instead of the 'mechanical or gtfo' view. I know someone who has a fairly mundane dell rubber dome keyboard. It is actually very nice to type on. What is important is not having an expensive keyboard, but appreciating that not all keyboards are the same and that it is important to not just put up with a board that you do not enjoy using. I often see (particularly on /r/MK) posts to the effect of 'is this mechanical?', to which the reply is invariably 'no' and the reply of the OP to that post is 'damn it. I guess I'll have to keep on looking' or something else to that effect. They are not giving a thought to the merits of that keyboard, only worrying about weather it fits one criteria. It is totally not as black and white as 'rubber = worthless, mechanical = holy'. I'm sure many people find out about these communities and are scared off by the prices of seemingly 'entry level' boards.

TLDR: good rubber needs more love.

QFA. There are some rubber-dome keyboards I've typed on and made me stop and think, "Hey, this is quite nice!" If they came in form-factors that I preferred (such as TKL or 75%), I'd totally get one, but mainstream keyboards are largely full-size, which just doesn't fit my ergonomic requirement.

Just the other day, I was trying the Razer Tartarus at a store, and I actually really liked the tactile feel of its rubber-dome keys. Felt like a stiffer and slightly less refined version of Topre to me, and that's not a bad thing at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 12 January 2015, 18:34:31
First-generation Dell Quietkeys are very nice, so are IBM 8923s.

Compaq made some excellent keyboards in the late-1990s-early-2000s.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 12 January 2015, 23:08:34
The one thing that drove me crazy was the trackpoint knob.  I always used the mouse and found that thing to be very annoying to me when I typed on a laptop.  Even using it was really annoying.  I remember using it and the pointer would just fly across the desktop for no reason at all.  It drove me nuts! I never got used to it.  Arrrrgh!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: howthegodschill on Mon, 12 January 2015, 23:55:42
The one thing that drove me crazy was the trackpoint knob.  I always used the mouse and found that thing to be very annoying to me when I typed on a laptop.  Even using it was really annoying.  I remember using it and the pointer would just fly across the desktop for no reason at all.  It drove me nuts! I never got used to it.  Arrrrgh!
I recall using my sister's laptop on middle school field trips in order to play Half-Life, and only having the nub to use. Quite an infuriating experience as a youngster.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 12 January 2015, 23:58:43
The one thing that drove me crazy was the trackpoint knob.  I always used the mouse and found that thing to be very annoying to me when I typed on a laptop.  Even using it was really annoying.  I remember using it and the pointer would just fly across the desktop for no reason at all.  It drove me nuts! I never got used to it.  Arrrrgh!
I recall using my sister's laptop on middle school field trips in order to play Half-Life, and only having the nub to use. Quite an infuriating experience as a youngster.

Great practice for when you're an adult though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 17 January 2015, 03:22:40
Going to breathe some life back into this thread...


buying used keycaps? No thanks....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MessyCaps on Sat, 17 January 2015, 07:01:38
Going to breathe some life back into this thread...


buying used keycaps? No thanks....

I would agree thats not a popular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 17 January 2015, 07:47:35
Going to breathe some life back into this thread...


buying used keycaps? No thanks....

I would agree thats not a popular opinion.

Yeah... I see a lot of used keycaps / keysets selling. I can understand it for novelty caps (clacks et. al.) but for keysets I just don't get the appeal in spending so much on keycaps that have already been worn, used, and smothered in someone else's finger grease. There are always tons of keysets on sale, after all. Then again, I also hold the opinion that most PMK sets are also less attractive than a nice set of Vortex PBTs at a third of the price.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sat, 17 January 2015, 10:41:18
QFA. There are some rubber-dome keyboards I've typed on and made me stop and think, "Hey, this is quite nice!" If they came in form-factors that I preferred (such as TKL or 75%), I'd totally get one, but mainstream keyboards are largely full-size, which just doesn't fit my ergonomic requirement.

Just the other day, I was trying the Razer Tartarus at a store, and I actually really liked the tactile feel of its rubber-dome keys. Felt like a stiffer and slightly less refined version of Topre to me, and that's not a bad thing at all.

I own one of these (http://www.amazon.com/HP-AS601AA-ABA-Mini-Keyboard/dp/B0025ZSBNG).  And for a rubberdome it's quite nice.  Short throw, relatively quiet - perfect for the Office and only $20!  It is also spec for 20M presses.

After a year of ownership I compared the most commonly used keys to the unused function keys and they are still equally tactile.

Compared that to "oh noes - my month old $125+ mechanical has chattering switches..."  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sat, 17 January 2015, 13:35:03
Yeah the used keycap thing is like... Nope. Especially if it's ABS.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 17 January 2015, 14:26:30
I just don't get the appeal in spending so much on keycaps that have already been worn, used, and smothered in someone else's finger grease.
A half hour in detergent removes pretty much all finger grease.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 18 January 2015, 08:29:37
I can see pbt sets selling (ibm. Unicomp). Outside of that the price  or condition would need to be right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xonar on Thu, 22 January 2015, 14:39:11
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Thu, 22 January 2015, 14:47:14
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Hmm. Now I want to try it, even though it looks pretty bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 22 January 2015, 16:19:47
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Hmm. Now I want to try it, even though it looks pretty bad.
Trust me, there's a reason it's an unpopular opinion :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Thu, 22 January 2015, 16:27:20
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Stop tempting me.  I keep wanting one more and more, despite having just finished my 4704.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 22 January 2015, 16:36:37
Stop tempting me.  I keep wanting one more and more, despite having just finished my 4704.
If you have a 4704 board, there’s very little reason to want an XT (unless it’s to harvest parts for some custom layout or an XTant or something).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xonar on Thu, 22 January 2015, 17:43:39
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Hmm. Now I want to try it, even though it looks pretty bad.
Trust me, there's a reason it's an unpopular opinion :p

I can't argue with that. :P It's certainly not for everyone. Still not entirely sure how in the world it turned out that I don't mind the XT layout. lol

After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Stop tempting me.  I keep wanting one more and more, despite having just finished my 4704.

The seller I bought my Bigfoot from has more available, but I doubt they'll last long. At the price he's selling them at, and given that they're NIB and will only need an xwhatsit to be in perfect running order, I'd say you should go for it.  :thumb:

The XT is a different experience from the 4704. Enough to make me want both on my desk, however I do not yet have a desk large enough to accommodate both. lol The thing that really makes me like it is the wrist rest. It makes it a bit more comfortable to type on than the 4704, which doesn't even have raisers. It also has some of the nicest caps IBM has ever put on a keyboard. People like to source XT alphanumerics to put on other BS boards for a good reason. Regardless, I love both of them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 22 January 2015, 17:46:03
will only need an xwhatsit to be in perfect running order
Aren't those incompatible with his converter? I just remember thinking I would do the same and he said that it wouldn't work
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blazarcher on Thu, 22 January 2015, 18:27:00
1. I hate full sized keyboards! (Even though I have a Filco 100% xD)

2. I love Cherry MX Browns (:P) especially for gaming!

3. I hate Model M's, actually I hate all old keyboards!

4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.

5. I hate corsairs, razors, thermaltake, and any other company that overdoes branding.

6. I hate dolch keycaps (Nahhhh, I'm kidding, I love them!)

7. I LOVE purple FMJ Poker cases!

Forgot to mention:

8. I hate Topres! (feel like rubber domes to me)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 22 January 2015, 18:32:47
1. I hate full sized keyboards! (Even though I have a Filco 100% xD)

4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.

5. I hate corsairs, razors, thermaltake, and any other company that overdoes branding.

6. I hate dolch keycaps (Nahhhh, I'm kidding, I love them!)

7. I LOVE purple FMJ Poker cases!
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared

8. I hate Topres! (feel like rubber domes to me)
they are
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xonar on Thu, 22 January 2015, 18:57:11
will only need an xwhatsit to be in perfect running order
Aren't those incompatible with his converter? I just remember thinking I would do the same and he said that it wouldn't work

Did a quick search and yep, you're right about that. My bad. I could have sworn I had seen the Bigfoot XT on a compatibility list for the xwhatsit, but the controller design is integrated in the same way as the regular XT, unfortunately. Apparently you can do Soarer's converter, however.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blazarcher on Thu, 22 January 2015, 19:21:22
1. I hate full sized keyboards! (Even though I have a Filco 100% xD)

4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.

5. I hate corsairs, razors, thermaltake, and any other company that overdoes branding.

6. I hate dolch keycaps (Nahhhh, I'm kidding, I love them!)

7. I LOVE purple FMJ Poker cases!
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared

8. I hate Topres! (feel like rubber domes to me)
they are

Woah #4 really? I'm a bit surprised.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 22 January 2015, 20:09:20
Quote from: blazarcher
4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.
Quote from: hwood34
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared
Quote from: blazarcher
Woah #4 really? I'm a bit surprised.
I’d even say many or even most people hate keyboard backlighting. I personally always turn it off on Apple laptops, and wouldn’t consider buying a keyboard with backlighting unless I planned to remove all the LEDs and replace the keycaps.

I think caps lock and num lock are stupid concepts which should have been retired 20 years ago.

I suspect there might be compelling use cases for a display on a keyboard, but I can’t think of any off-hand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blazarcher on Thu, 22 January 2015, 20:21:19
Quote from: blazarcher
4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.
Quote from: hwood34
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared
Quote from: blazarcher
Woah #4 really? I'm a bit surprised.
I’d even say many or even most people hate keyboard backlighting. I personally always turn it off on Apple laptops, and wouldn’t consider buying a keyboard with backlighting unless I planned to remove all the LEDs and replace the keycaps.

I think caps lock and num lock are stupid concepts which should have been retired 20 years ago.

I suspect there might be compelling use cases for a display on a keyboard, but I can’t think of any off-hand.

I think it's quite surprising considering all the RGB LED keyboards that are out now. I mean just look at Corsair and Razor!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: taylordcraig on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:51:17
I buy and sell keycaps all the time! It just depends how worn they are. I bought a pretty worn set of OG desko and theyre still really nice. Most of my SP stuff is so lightly used you probably couldn't tell. That's the upside to having so many damn sets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:01:34
Quote from: blazarcher
4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.
Quote from: hwood34
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared
Quote from: blazarcher
Woah #4 really? I'm a bit surprised.
I’d even say many or even most people hate keyboard backlighting. I personally always turn it off on Apple laptops, and wouldn’t consider buying a keyboard with backlighting unless I planned to remove all the LEDs and replace the keycaps.

I think caps lock and num lock are stupid concepts which should have been retired 20 years ago.

I suspect there might be compelling use cases for a display on a keyboard, but I can’t think of any off-hand.

I think it's quite surprising considering all the RGB LED keyboards that are out now. I mean just look at Corsair and Razor!
I mean, for your average person the RGB backlighting might seem appealing, but to enthusiasts it's just gaudy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:21:15
Unpopular opinion:

DSA sucks big hairy Bronads. Flat keycap profiles can burn.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:27:03
It's not that unpopular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:42:00
It's not that unpopular.
I'd even go so far as to say that's a pretty popular opinion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:46:19
It's not that unpopular.
I'd even go so far as to say that's a pretty popular opinion

Every profile has it's fans and it's detractors. DSA has a strong crowd of support and an equally strong crowd of dislike. Rinse and repeat for SA.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 26 March 2015, 14:32:27
NVM, too hard to communicate humor through a computer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 26 March 2015, 16:03:05
Fujitsu Leaf Spring switches aren't bad feeling.  They're not amazing, but better than many stock  MX switches, namely Blues and Reds.  They are annoying as hell.  Even so, they're still less annoying than Blues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:16:42
They're not amazing, but better than [any] stock MX switches [...]
This pretty much describes 90% of mechanical keyswitches out there.

“This keyswitch is better than MX” is pretty much like saying “this world map projection is better than Mercator” or “these headphones are better than Beats” or “this novel is better than Twilight”.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:40:31
Stock Blacks are still nice and I'd take any MX over White or Black Alps.  I'd take most Mx over a Model M. NMB Hi-Tek are nice but have too short of a throw, so it would depend on the day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: stratokaster on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:04:35
1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:37:06
KEYCOOL'S RGB BOARD IS GOING TO BE AMAZING I DONT CARE WHAT ANYBODY ELSE SAYS
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: burn1nsun on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:59:30
I think that cherry mx switches are just so unsatisfying when compared to a topre or buckling spring, heck even compared to a gateron switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lengradde on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:07:18
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.

2) I wish MX Blues were significantly louder with a much lower pitch.

3) Plates are an abomination.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:08:36
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.

2) I wish MX Blues were louder.

3) Plates are an abomination.

Don't you even want a piece of ply or something to protect the traces?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jameslr on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:13:16

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:20:11
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.
probably the oddest thing I've seen in this thread :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:24:11
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.
probably the oddest thing I've seen in this thread :))
Yeah, much better to carve the desk for at least 2/3 inches and then fix the PCB bellow desk level. it's so much more ergonomic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lengradde on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:24:31
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.

2) I wish MX Blues were louder.

3) Plates are an abomination.

Don't you even want a piece of ply or something to protect the traces?
I use a massive deskpad that provides cushion and keeps it from sliding.  Carving my desk and setting the keyboard down in it a bit would be better...  but would reduce the options I have for where I set peripherals, and not let me move my board to the side for gaming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:30:15
I've seen the bare PCB thing. Not my thing, but a few folks' thing.

Wait, we're still talking about keyboard, right?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:32:25

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
GVim, you're welcome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jameslr on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:34:14


1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
GVim, you're welcome.

Have you tried notepad++? You're welcome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 27 March 2015, 12:22:48
Numpads suck when they're on the right side.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Fri, 27 March 2015, 12:23:54
2) I wish MX Blues were significantly louder with a much lower pitch.

That sounds like a buckling spring...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 27 March 2015, 12:52:12


1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
GVim, you're welcome.

Have you tried notepad++? You're welcome.
Yes. It has precisely one advantage: the user interface appears intuitive to people already brain-damaged by DOS/Windows. Unsurprisingly, it correlates with the opinion that text processors were a good idea.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Fri, 27 March 2015, 12:56:27
I think caps lock and num lock are stupid concepts which should have been retired 20 years ago.

Caps Lock isn't stupid per se, it's just really stupid to have it in such a valuable position on most keyboards, and it's arguable whether it should have a dedicated key at all. Activating it via a function layer works fine for me.

It's useful if you program in a language that uses caps a lot, like C. I wouldn't particulary want to type this without the aid of a caps lock: https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/keyboard/gh60/Makefile
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 13:16:36
It's useful if you program in a language that uses caps a lot, like C. I wouldn't particulary want to type this without the aid of a caps lock[:
No, it still sucks. What you want is a shortcut which capitalizes either the current word or the selection, and then you type your constant name in lower case and press that shortcut at the end.

Modes are evil. If you really need a mode, at least make sure it requires actively holding a key down, like the shift key. (Put the shifter on a thumb key or a foot pedal if it helps.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 27 March 2015, 13:26:41
It's the other way around. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil are modes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:04:47
It's useful if you program in a language that uses caps a lot, like C. I wouldn't particulary want to type this without the aid of a caps lock[:
No, it still sucks. What you want is a shortcut which capitalizes either the current word or the selection, and then you type your constant name in lower case and press that shortcut at the end.

Modes are evil. If you really need a mode, at least make sure it requires actively holding a key down, like the shift key. (Put the shifter on a thumb key or a foot pedal if it helps.)

I still disagree that it sucks. I'm one of the extreme minority of people that capitalize letters by double-tapping Caps lock. Is it inefficient and stupid? Perhaps, but I maintain about 95 WPM, so I don't really see the value in learning the "correct" way to apply Caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:20:19


1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
GVim, you're welcome.

Have you tried notepad++? You're welcome.

sublimetext

:p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:28:22
I hate the term "daily driver".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:28:55
I still disagree that [caps lock] sucks. I'm one of the extreme minority of people that capitalize letters by double-tapping Caps lock. Is it inefficient and stupid? Perhaps, but I maintain about 95 WPM, so I don't really see the value in learning the "correct" way to apply Caps.
You’d be much better off with a key to capitalize just the immediately following letter.

Or perhaps a key which acts like shift if you hold it down, but capitalizes just the next letter if you quickly press and release it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jameslr on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:30:49


sublimetext

:p

Looks nice! Thanks!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Fri, 27 March 2015, 18:21:09
I still disagree that [caps lock] sucks. I'm one of the extreme minority of people that capitalize letters by double-tapping Caps lock. Is it inefficient and stupid? Perhaps, but I maintain about 95 WPM, so I don't really see the value in learning the "correct" way to apply Caps.
You’d be much better off with a key to capitalize just the immediately following letter.

Or perhaps a key which acts like shift if you hold it down, but capitalizes just the next letter if you quickly press and release it.

I guess I'm not following your comment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 27 March 2015, 18:24:08
Sticky keys?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 19:47:38
I guess I'm not following your comment.
The problem with caps lock is that creates a mode, which causes mistakes when you turn it on accidentally or leave it on after you expect. While in the caps lock mode, all the keys on the keyboard behave differently, in a rather arbitrary way. Shift + letter doesn’t always produce the same character as hold caps lock + letter + release caps lock. This is confusing and unnecessary.

The only real advantage to caps lock vs. holding a shift key down is that holding shift gets uncomfortable with some combinations, but with caps lock you can strike the keys one at a time instead of needing to make a chord.

If you mostly use caps lock to capitalize single letters, then you’d be better off with a key (let’s call it ◊) which, when you press it, causes the immediately following key to be treated exactly as if shift was held down.

So pressing ◊ then x makes X, or pressing ◊ then 7 makes &, or ◊ then \ makes |, etc.

If you don’t press another key within a few seconds afterward, you probably want to ignore the ◊ key and let the next key just type a lower-case letter.

Optionally, you could combine this with the shift key, so holding down ◊, pressing a, b, c, then releasing ◊ key would type ABC.

If you want to use caps lock to capitalize long stretches of text, and don’t like holding down shift or repeatedly pressing a ◊-like key, you’d be better off typing the text in lower case and then at the end invoking some command which capitalizes the whole word, line, or selection. Exactly what keystroke should invoke that command, how it should work, etc. depends on your personal preferences, and what kind of keystrokes you use for other navigation and selection commands. Basically all text editors currently have ****ty default setups for all of these basic functions, so I recommend customizing something to suit your own personal preferences.
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 27 March 2015, 19:51:52
I guess I'm not following your comment.
You want a key (let’s call it ◊) which, when you press it, causes the immediately following key to be treated as if shift is held down.

So pressing ◊ then x makes X, or pressing ◊ then 7 makes &, or ◊ then \ makes |, etc.

If you don’t press another key within a few seconds afterward, you probably want to ignore the ◊ key and let the next key just type a lower-case letter.

Optionally, you could combine this with the shift key, so holding down ◊, pressing a, b, c, then releasing ◊ key would type ABC.

It's a novel idea for sure, but I'm thinking it would be more efficient with traditional shift; can't you type simultaneous keys faster than sequential?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 01111000 on Fri, 27 March 2015, 19:52:59
HHKBs are overpriced and aren't as great as everyone makes them out to be.  They're not better than a similar keyboard that costs half as much; people just need to find a way to justify such a large amount of money and rationalize it that way.  It's a status symbol.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 27 March 2015, 19:53:50

HHKBs are overpriced and aren't as great as everyone makes them out to be.  They're not better than a similar keyboard that costs half as much; people just need to find a way to justify such a large amount of money and rationalize it that way.  It's a status symbol.

I've always had my suspicions...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 20:00:04
It's a novel idea for sure, but I'm thinking it would be more efficient with traditional shift; can't you type simultaneous keys faster than sequential?

Imagine you want to type a capital X. The idea is you can type any of the following 3 things:
◊ down
x down
x up
◊ up

or:
◊ down
x down
◊ up
x up

or:
◊ down
◊ up
x down
x up

And you get the same result either way, so you don’t really need to worry about it. Using a shift key instead of ◊, that last pattern won’t get you a capital X. If you want to press the keys sequentially you need to use caps lock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Fri, 27 March 2015, 22:18:18
The problem with caps lock is that creates a mode, which causes mistakes when you turn it on accidentally or leave it on after you expect. While in the caps lock mode, all the keys on the keyboard behave differently, in a rather arbitrary way. Shift + letter doesn’t always produce the same character as hold caps lock + letter + release caps lock. This is confusing and unnecessary.

The only real advantage to caps lock vs. holding a shift key down is that holding shift gets uncomfortable with some combinations, but with caps lock you can strike the keys one at a time instead of needing to make a chord.
.....
If you want to use caps lock to capitalize long stretches of text, and don’t like holding down shift or repeatedly pressing a ◊-like key, you’d be better off typing the text in lower case and then at the end invoking some command which capitalizes the whole word, line, or selection. Exactly what keystroke should invoke that command, how it should work, etc. depends on your personal preferences, and what kind of keystrokes you use for other navigation and selection commands. Basically all text editors currently have ****ty default setups for all of these basic functions, so I recommend customizing something to suit your own personal preferences.

Let me get this straight. The only disadvantage of the caps lock is that on rare occasions, you momentarily mistakenly have it active (which is corrected immediately) -- and most keyboards have an indicator for caps lock. This is the most trivial issue I've come across, so I'm really not sure what we're trying to solve here.

There are many other advantages of caps lock versus using shift. For example, I work in commercial building operation. When naming points and doing graphics, we often use all-caps. The letters are mixed with numbers though, making holding shift a lot more work than it's worth. With hundreds of names like "C04AHU16-P6STS", caps lock makes it a breeze. Using caps-lock makes the keyboard act exactly the same as without, just the letters are capitalized, leaving the numbers and symbols all the same so you can just type everything normally without thinking about it.

How in the world are you "better off typing the text in lower case and then at the end invoking some command which capitalizes [it]"? That seems like a lot more extra work than just tapping a button prior to typing it out. It would also vary depending on applications and be extremely difficult to be selective of what is capitalized and what is not. For example, when making a graphic at my work, how would I invoke a command to capitalize certain blocks of text, while not others? It would be different all over the place and from computer to computer. Nothing even remotely practical going on here.

And it still solves nothing. Caps lock has a lot of uses. Could they move it to where the "scroll lock" (which is actually purposeless) or pause/break is and ditch those? By all means.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 23:49:06
If you’re manually typing hundreds of names like C04AHU16-P6STS into a freeform text field, then IMO there’s probably something horribly wrong with the overall process that goes way beyond caps lock. But in any case, yes, I would rather type that as c04ahu16-p6sts and then afterward press a key/shortcut to invoke a "capitalize the previous word" command, instead of using a mode. It ends up taking one fewer keystroke, and in addition you eliminate the mode.

For me personally, caps lock has zero uses. I literally never use it. There are faster and easier ways to accomplish everything I can imagine ever wanting to do with a caps lock key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 00:11:09
If you’re manually typing hundreds of names like C04AHU16-P6STS into a freeform text field, then IMO there’s probably something horribly wrong with the overall process that goes way beyond caps lock. But in any case, yes, I would rather type that as c04ahu16-p6sts and then afterward press a key/shortcut to invoke a "capitalize the previous word" command, instead of using a mode. It ends up taking one fewer keystroke, and in addition you eliminate the mode.

For me personally, caps lock has zero uses. I literally never use it. There are faster and easier ways to accomplish everything I can imagine ever wanting to do with a caps lock key.

Are you actually trying to shave off two keystrokes (enabling/disabling CapsLock)? Wouldn't whatever shortcut for capitalizing the previous word require a keystroke combination of keys? It sounds overly complicated. Would you have to do this after each word? That would add a pile of keystrokes and mental work. Would the shortcut work in all programs (ie. across the OS)?

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand. Is this something you have implemented or is this something you would like to see implemented?

PS. I don't actually enter hundreds of those funky names at once, but I'll often make a bunch at a time when needed. Same thing with working with graphics/labels... it helps to just enable it. It's really for an older platform we still support... the newer stuff makes all the tags automatically, which is a godsend as you might imagine!  :eek:

I wouldn't mind seeing it replacing the Pause/Break button as I haven't used that once in my 22 years of computing. Frees up the prime real estate of the current CapsLock while leaving it as an option for those who use it.

Could make an interesting poll to see who uses it these days.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 00:26:51
Are you actually trying to shave off two keystrokes
No, I don’t care at all about two keystrokes. I’m trying to eliminate the mode, as I said several times. :-)

And yes, this is something I have implemented. I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

If you have powerful text selection commands (for selecting in various directions by subwords/words/lines/sentences/paragraphs/screens, then it becomes a snap to quickly select specific chunks of text and invoke commands on the selection. This is more general and more powerful than just having a 'caps lock' key, because there are many things besides just capitalizing that I might want to do with some chunk of text.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 00:33:52
Are you actually trying to shave off two keystrokes
No, I don’t care at all about two keystrokes. I’m trying to eliminate the mode, as I said several times. :-)

And yes, this is something I have implemented. I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

Quite interesting. I can sure see that being useful, especially for things you've already typed.

Still need the old fashioned capslock, so it isn't going anywhere just yet.  ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 01:48:48
For me personally, caps lock has zero uses. I literally never use it.

Neither keyboard I'm currently using even has capslock configured on it at the moment. My Code and my F both have capslock set as a second LCtrl. More necessary on the F since that doesn't have a shiny light to tell me the annoying thing is on. :P

I wouldn't mind seeing it replacing the Pause/Break button as I haven't used that once in my 22 years of computing. Frees up the prime real estate of the current CapsLock while leaving it as an option for those who use it.

Could make an interesting poll to see who uses it these days.

Does that key even do anything in Windows? Like, I literally have no idea what it's supposed to do. I have never used it for anything ever.

Same for Insert. OK yes it does something and I know what it does, but I've never found its behavior really useful. Remembering it and remembering to turn it back off and correcting for word length differences is more annoying than just shift+arrowing to select text and hitting backspace or delete. >_>;

Also the menu key is useless and should be replaced with something actually worthwhile like FN or just not there at all. Same with Menu as with Capslock, on the Code it's FN for the LEDs, on the F it's FN for accessing the F keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 02:09:44
Does that key even do anything in Windows? Like, I literally have no idea what it's supposed to do. I have never used it for anything ever.

Same for Insert. OK yes it does something and I know what it does, but I've never found its behavior really useful. Remembering it and remembering to turn it back off and correcting for word length differences is more annoying than just shift+arrowing to select text and hitting backspace or delete. >_>;

Also the menu key is useless and should be replaced with something actually worthwhile like FN or just not there at all. Same with Menu as with Capslock, on the Code it's FN for the LEDs, on the F it's FN for accessing the F keys.

I don't think Pause/Break has done anything in decades. Scroll lock doesn't seem to, either.

Insert was used mostly for the old DOS-like software where values had to be in certain positions. You could rewrite over a bunch of values, but you would have to delete them one by one. Systems like this are still used in inventory, ordering, car rentals, airport bookings, etc. I don't think many people use it in the desktop environment at all, though.

I've never bothered with the Menu key but recently I've learned from people that it can be useful for shortcuts provided you actually learn how to use it. For example, Menu>W>F to make a new folder in Windows. I think it's for those who like to fly around with the keyboard and avoid mouse interaction. I don't suspect more than a handful of people use it at all, but I figure those who do would swear by it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 02:19:01
Alt will already let you do that. Alt, f, w, f will create a new folder in Explorer. XD Maybe it cuts a key off that I guess? Dunno.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 28 March 2015, 02:22:20
Ctrl+Break stops the execution of a command line program. If you use CLI, it's indispensable. If not, you prob have no use for it at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Sat, 28 March 2015, 03:45:29
Ctrl+Break stops the execution of a command line program. If you use CLI, it's indispensable. If not, you prob have no use for it at all.

Is there any program you can't do that with ctrl+x, ctrl+c nowadays?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Sat, 28 March 2015, 03:55:38
There are many other advantages of caps lock versus using shift. For example, I work in commercial building operation. When naming points and doing graphics, we often use all-caps. The letters are mixed with numbers though, making holding shift a lot more work than it's worth. With hundreds of names like "C04AHU16-P6STS", caps lock makes it a breeze. Using caps-lock makes the keyboard act exactly the same as without, just the letters are capitalized, leaving the numbers and symbols all the same so you can just type everything normally without thinking about it.

This.

If you’re manually typing hundreds of names like C04AHU16-P6STS into a freeform text field, then IMO there’s probably something horribly wrong with the overall process that goes way beyond caps lock.

Yeah, because you're always in control of what you need to enter.

And yes, this is something I have implemented. I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

If you have powerful text selection commands (for selecting in various directions by subwords/words/lines/sentences/paragraphs/screens, then it becomes a snap to quickly select specific chunks of text and invoke commands on the selection. This is more general and more powerful than just having a 'caps lock' key, because there are many things besides just capitalizing that I might want to do with some chunk of text.

Which you're doing at a software level. You want your keyboard controller to do that? Just how would I tell a keyboard to select a sentence in order to capitalize it? And in what world would you, knowing that you need that sentence capitalized, write it first and then capitalize?

Everyone has macros, dude. Don't get macros and keyboards confused.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 March 2015, 04:12:29
Most of these keys made sense back in the day of IBM CUA. For example, [C|S]-Insert was used for copypasta (and X.Org have adopted it).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hiroyuki on Sat, 28 March 2015, 08:44:29
1. (ANSI layout) Esc should be above tab, next to the 1-key, |\ and ~` should be where backspace is on standard keyboards, backspace should be where |\ normally is. LCtrl and CapsLock should be swapped.
2. I can't stand the <> being left of z on ISO keyboards, even worse, I really really dislike the huge enter key on ISO keyboards...
3. What's with the idiotic decision of placing {[]} on the third layer, having to use AltGraph to type them in Nordic layouts?
4. Instead of trying to get rid of capslock-mode, why don't we just teach everybody vim, then we would have full fledged modes to work with  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 28 March 2015, 09:34:28
1. (ANSI layout) Esc should be above tab, next to the 1-key, |\ and ~` should be where backspace is on standard keyboards, backspace should be where |\ normally is. LCtrl and CapsLock should be swapped.
2. I can't stand the <> being left of z on ISO keyboards, even worse, I really really dislike the huge enter key on ISO keyboards...
3. What's with the idiotic decision of placing {[]} on the third layer, having to use AltGraph to type them in Nordic layouts?
4. Instead of trying to get rid of capslock-mode, why don't we just teach everybody vim, then we would have full fledged modes to work with  :p

The <> keys aren't to the left of the Z on ISO boards, the |\ key is...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 March 2015, 09:48:38
The <> keys aren't to the left of the Z on ISO boards, the |\ key is...
They are, depending on particular national layout. The key itself returns an unique keycode though. I remap it to diacritic marks (as dead keys). Some people shift the ZXCVB cluster one key to the left, because this "angle mod" is more ergonomic than stock staggered QWERTY. Others use it as a layer toggle (see the Neo layout, for example).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 28 March 2015, 09:50:12
The <> keys aren't to the left of the Z on ISO boards, the |\ key is...
They are, depending on particular national layout. The key itself returns an unique keycode though. I remap it to diacritic marks (as dead keys). Some people shift the ZXCVB cluster one key to the left, because this "angle mod" is more ergonomic than stock staggered QWERTY. Others use it as a layer toggle (see the Neo layout, for example).

Oh yeah, it is on Nordic ISO. That's weird...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:46:10
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:10:09
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:27:42
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:30:41
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.

That is surprising. I would have expected both the Model Ms and the Realforce to be way out of the BWs league.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:33:10
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

I think it's well built as well. I have one that's still going as well. But I definitely disagree with it vs a Model M.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:37:47
I have absolutely zero doubt that many gaming keyboards feel tighter and sturdier than most high-quality equipment, which usually happens to feel hollow. However, it's reliability that matters in the long run.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:38:30
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.

weeeeeeeeelllllllll about that....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:53:13
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.

weeeeeeeeelllllllll about that....

It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:57:20
Bear in mind the Model Ms are probably 20 years older than the BW... The Model M has a massive metal plate inside it.

In a fight, the Model M would destroy a BW.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:58:20
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.

weeeeeeeeelllllllll about that....

It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...

The BlackWidow Ultimate weighs around 1500g (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2456080,00.asp). The Model M weighs 2000g - 2500g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:00:46
Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:04:23
Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

(http://i.imgur.com/z1XzkLl.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:06:50
Yeah, because you're always in control of what you need to enter.
As a programmer, pretty much. If I’m manually typing too much boilerplate or bull****, then I’m doing something wrong, and something needs a better abstraction or needs to be automated.

Quote from: jacobolus
I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

If you have powerful text selection commands (for selecting in various directions by subwords/words/lines/sentences/paragraphs/screens, then it becomes a snap to quickly select specific chunks of text and invoke commands on the selection. This is more general and more powerful than just having a 'caps lock' key, because there are many things besides just capitalizing that I might want to do with some chunk of text.

Quote from: sypl
Which you're doing at a software level. You want your keyboard controller to do that? Just how would I tell a keyboard to select a sentence in order to capitalize it? And in what world would you, knowing that you need that sentence capitalized, write it first and then capitalize?
The best level to handle these things depends on the text editor, operating system, and keyboard firmware in use. Unfortunately, because these things have evolved in a messy historical process, there are like 6–10 distinct layers of interpretation between physically pressing a key and access to the event by GUI software, especially e.g. on web pages. Those layers interact in complex and often stupid ways, because the people who built them solved particular needs instead of making properly general abstract models, and it’s somewhere between pathologically difficult and impossible to change several of them, depending on the operating system. This makes it basically impossible to have full control as a user over the way a keyboard interacts with a GUI. The best we can do is patch a few things here and a few things there. Having full control over the keyboard firmware makes many things much easier though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:11:46
It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...

The BlackWidow Ultimate weighs around 1500g (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2456080,00.asp). The Model M weighs 2000g - 2500g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard)

I just weighed them both and the BW is about 4/5 the weight of the M. Not that far off and still both quite heavy.

Having a heavy plate isn't enough to make it better put together, though, which is my point. There is no play, flex, squeaks, or anything that I can observe when applying force to the BW case.
It's drum-tight, uses a bunch more screws and reinforcement inside.

My Model Ms, despite one being bolt-modded, still makes a bunch of case noise and there is some play. I can just pick either one up by the sides and squeeze lightly and it makes the typical plasticky noises. There just isn't the reinforcement there. There's also no attention to detail inside the keyboard, and the plastic rivets were never going to make for a solid case.

Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

There is no "win"... Just that the older BW has a more solid case with more attention to detail than any other board I have.

My 87U top case shifts 1mm left/right, even.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:12:19
Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z1XzkLl.png)


(http://i.imgur.com/uONOMSZ.png)



> Posts unpopular opinion in unpopular opinion thread, gets accused of starting flame war


(http://i.imgur.com/HurrjOo.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:13:38
Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z1XzkLl.png)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/uONOMSZ.png)




> Posts unpopular opinion in unpopular opinion thread, gets accused of starting flame war


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HurrjOo.jpg)


Yeah, fair enough. I was just joking around. Still though, I'd like to hear your reasons for not liking Model Ms considering they are so widely loved.

EDIT: Nice gif edit :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:17:02
They feel cheap.  They have too much torsional flex. They are wildly inconsistent between boards and sometimes even across the same board even when bolt modded or with all solid rivets. They have an annoying sharp ping (unlike the more pleasing click on a Model F). They have too much key wobble.  They don't age well, at least IMO.  Most require modding and a bit of work to feel decent.  I could go on, but don't feel like it.  I thought they were okay when I first tried one, then I tried a Model F AT and every flaw of the Model M was highlighted.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:18:40
It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...

The BlackWidow Ultimate weighs around 1500g (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2456080,00.asp). The Model M weighs 2000g - 2500g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard)

I just weighed them both and the BW is about 4/5 the weight of the M. Not that far off and still both quite heavy.

Having a heavy plate isn't enough to make it better put together, though, which is my point. There is no play, flex, squeaks, or anything that I can observe when applying force to the BW case.
It's drum-tight, uses a bunch more screws and reinforcement inside.

My Model Ms, despite one being bolt-modded, still makes a bunch of case noise and there is some play. I can just pick either one up by the sides and squeeze lightly and it makes the typical plasticky noises. There just isn't the reinforcement there. There's also no attention to detail inside the keyboard, and the plastic rivets were never going to make for a solid case.

Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

There is no "win"... Just that the older BW has a more solid case with more attention to detail than any other board I have.

My 87U top case shifts 1mm left/right, even.

The real question is: does it matter?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:22:06
It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...

The BlackWidow Ultimate weighs around 1500g (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2456080,00.asp). The Model M weighs 2000g - 2500g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard)

I just weighed them both and the BW is about 4/5 the weight of the M. Not that far off and still both quite heavy.

Having a heavy plate isn't enough to make it better put together, though, which is my point. There is no play, flex, squeaks, or anything that I can observe when applying force to the BW case.
It's drum-tight, uses a bunch more screws and reinforcement inside.

My Model Ms, despite one being bolt-modded, still makes a bunch of case noise and there is some play. I can just pick either one up by the sides and squeeze lightly and it makes the typical plasticky noises. There just isn't the reinforcement there. There's also no attention to detail inside the keyboard, and the plastic rivets were never going to make for a solid case.

Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

There is no "win"... Just that the older BW has a more solid case with more attention to detail than any other board I have.

My 87U top case shifts 1mm left/right, even.

A friend has a 2012 (or 13) BW and really likes it. I suspect that as they moved to cheaper switches they also moved to cheaper cases though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:36:10
A friend has a 2012 (or 13) BW and really likes it. I suspect that as they moved to cheaper switches they also moved to cheaper cases though.

I know for a fact both are true. I've witnessed the decline as the local stores carry display models of them around here. It's sad they've gotten quite a bit worse in all respects while maintaining the high price point.

It's also worth giving some credit to Razer for putting MX Cherry boards into the main box stores at a time nobody else really was. People could go to BestBuy/Futureshop and compare MX Brown/Blue switches and see how they feel. Bit of a gamble as the market for >$100 keyboards was quite niche and almost entirely online at that point. Could be one of the reasons so many show up here with a BW having been their first taste.

I know I'm mostly on my own with this opinion but I do stand by it.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: inanis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:45:33

Same for Insert. OK yes it does something and I know what it does, but I've never found its behavior really useful. Remembering it and remembering to turn it back off and correcting for word length differences is more annoying than just shift+arrowing to select text and hitting backspace or delete. >_>;

Insert is super functional. When working in VMWare Ctrl + Alt + Insert takes the place of Ctrl + Alt + Delete. As a heavy VM user, I am using that key all the time. I bet that whoever decided the final layout for the FC660 knew that as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:52:33
Yeah, because you're always in control of what you need to enter.
As a programmer, pretty much. If I’m manually typing too much boilerplate or bull****, then I’m doing something wrong, and something needs a better abstraction or needs to be automated.

Quote from: jacobolus
I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

If you have powerful text selection commands (for selecting in various directions by subwords/words/lines/sentences/paragraphs/screens, then it becomes a snap to quickly select specific chunks of text and invoke commands on the selection. This is more general and more powerful than just having a 'caps lock' key, because there are many things besides just capitalizing that I might want to do with some chunk of text.

Quote from: sypl
Which you're doing at a software level. You want your keyboard controller to do that? Just how would I tell a keyboard to select a sentence in order to capitalize it? And in what world would you, knowing that you need that sentence capitalized, write it first and then capitalize?
The best level to handle these things depends on the text editor, operating system, and keyboard firmware in use. Unfortunately, because these things have evolved in a messy historical process, there are like 6–10 distinct layers of interpretation between physically pressing a key and access to the event by GUI software, especially e.g. on web pages. Those layers interact in complex and often stupid ways, because the people who built them solved particular needs instead of making properly general abstract models, and it’s somewhere between pathologically difficult and impossible to change several of them, depending on the operating system. This makes it basically impossible to have full control as a user over the way a keyboard interacts with a GUI. The best we can do is patch a few things here and a few things there. Having full control over the keyboard firmware makes many things much easier though.

Well, exactly. I know what the sequence of keys is to select a paragraph and capitalize it is in, say, sublime text, but it's completely different in vim. What you enter in to your keyboard though should have absolutely identical results, every time, irrespective or something like text editor. If you need it to work that way in a particular application, then you need some software in the middle (karabiner, autohotkey, alfred?) that interprets your shortcut to do as you wish in that program only.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sat, 28 March 2015, 21:48:39
Artisan Keycaps are disgusting, and ruin any real class a keyboard may have had before the artisan pimple arrived on its face.

HHKB aren't overrated imo, they are wonderful keyboards, but I do think they are slightly overpriced.

In terms of layout I won't make any judgements. I know from learning DVORAK and COLEMAK, getting used to the HHKB layout, and various other tweaks that a person can get used to anything. I'm always looking for ways to improve my own layout and comfort while typing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rsadek on Sat, 28 March 2015, 21:53:31
Unpopular opinion, I think, is that we don't need so many windows keys, esp in group buys. A lot of folks use Mac, Linux, Unix, etc. The hegemony of win/menu pairings is frustrating. Let's have some other keys in the mix!

(Seriously, I know the windows keys shortcuts are useful for many, but who wants the windows logo on their keyboard? Is windows so lovely? )
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sat, 28 March 2015, 22:10:10
i am glad no one said g710+ was a good keyboard.

:)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sat, 28 March 2015, 22:50:55
i am glad no one said g710+ was a good keyboard.

:)
I don't get it either. It's literally a g710 with browns and ****ty o-rings

Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche.
If Razer switched to gaterons from kailh, everyone would buy Razer
If l bought a keyboard without a arrowkeys, I would feel empty
40% is useless unless it's ergonomic (Atreus)
The HHKB is stupid, but topre itself is OK.
Your stock keycaps are usually OK
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile




Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 23:06:54
Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche. [...] Your stock keycaps are usually OK
How do you reconcile these two claims?

Quote
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile
Can you explain why you think this?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sat, 28 March 2015, 23:44:39
Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche. [...] Your stock keycaps are usually OK
How do you reconcile these two claims?

Quote
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile
Can you explain why you think this?

1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 29 March 2015, 08:58:58

Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche. [...] Your stock keycaps are usually OK
How do you reconcile these two claims?

Quote
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile
Can you explain why you think this?

1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
He has rethought that out, as stock abs is different than other abs, it's lower quality, and you are basing your opinion on someone else's?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 29 March 2015, 09:12:24

[/quote]

1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
[/quote]

The only benefit to PBT is that it doesn't shine nearly as easily. That being said I think thickness is far more important than keycap material. Id much rather have a nice GMK ABS set than a cheap PBT set. But if thickness was exactly the same I'd go PBT every day because they don't shine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sun, 29 March 2015, 09:51:52


1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
[/quote]

The only benefit to PBT is that it doesn't shine nearly as easily. That being said I think thickness is far more important than keycap material. Id much rather have a nice GMK ABS set than a cheap PBT set. But if thickness was exactly the same I'd go PBT every day because they don't shine.
[/quote]

In my limited experience the texture of PBT is definitely superior, and the sound seems better even for comparable thickness caps. The 'thockier' the better when it comes to caps bottoming out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:15:28

Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche. [...] Your stock keycaps are usually OK
How do you reconcile these two claims?

Quote
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile
Can you explain why you think this?

1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
He has rethought that out, as stock abs is different than other abs, it's lower quality, and you are basing your opinion on someone else's?

I was just saying that a lot of people prefer pbt, not hating on him in particular
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:15:45
Unpopular opinion, I think, is that we don't need so many windows keys, esp in group buys. A lot of folks use Mac, Linux, Unix, etc. The hegemony of win/menu pairings is frustrating. Let's have some other keys in the mix!

(Seriously, I know the windows keys shortcuts are useful for many, but who wants the windows logo on their keyboard? Is windows so lovely? )

It would probably be just as well if they just made them blank. Might it be because so many boards don't support Mac properly?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:22:32


1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.

The only benefit to PBT is that it doesn't shine nearly as easily. That being said I think thickness is far more important than keycap material. Id much rather have a nice GMK ABS set than a cheap PBT set. But if thickness was exactly the same I'd go PBT every day because they don't shine.
[/quote]

In my limited experience the texture of PBT is definitely superior, and the sound seems better even for comparable thickness caps. The 'thockier' the better when it comes to caps bottoming out.
[/quote]

I really don't care too much about the look or feel of each keycap, but I see your point on sound. The type heaven sounds unbearable with stock keycaps, but sounds a lot nicer with pbt. But l still wouldn't spend money on my keycaps, unless my stock keycap legends started wearing or something.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:22:32
Unpopular opinion, I think, is that we don't need so many windows keys, esp in group buys. A lot of folks use Mac, Linux, Unix, etc. The hegemony of win/menu pairings is frustrating. Let's have some other keys in the mix!

(Seriously, I know the windows keys shortcuts are useful for many, but who wants the windows logo on their keyboard? Is windows so lovely? )

It would probably be just as well if they just made them blank. Might it be because so many boards don't support Mac properly?
Its mostly windows keys because that is the majority of users, blank would look weird with other legend keys around it, and also most manufactures already have the tooling for windows keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:25:11
Unpopular opinion, I think, is that we don't need so many windows keys, esp in group buys. A lot of folks use Mac, Linux, Unix, etc. The hegemony of win/menu pairings is frustrating. Let's have some other keys in the mix!

(Seriously, I know the windows keys shortcuts are useful for many, but who wants the windows logo on their keyboard? Is windows so lovely? )

It would probably be just as well if they just made them blank. Might it be because so many boards don't support
  Mac properly?
Its mostly windows keys because that is the majority of users, blank would look weird with other legend keys around it, and also most manufactures already have the tooling for windows keys.

Yeah, windows is allot more common than other operating systems, so companies cater to the masses
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:49:54
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:17:48
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
who's spending more that $1k on a 456? or plenty of 356 for that matter
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:19:31
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
who's spending more that $1k on a 456? or plenty of 356 for that matter

Someone apparently. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70403.0)  And I've seen people appraise some of those keyboards north of $1k in the price check thread.  It might have been due to color, but still.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:22:32
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
who's spending more that $1k on a 456? or plenty of 356 for that matter

Someone apparently. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70403.0)  And I've seen people appraise some of those keyboards north of $1k in the price check thread.  It might have been due to color, but still.
I mean that's with a $140 set, cable, and case, and I still thought that price was pretty high.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:26:42
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
who's spending more that $1k on a 456? or plenty of 356 for that matter

Someone apparently. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70403.0)  And I've seen people appraise some of those keyboards north of $1k in the price check thread.  It might have been due to color, but still.
I mean that's with a $140 set, cable, and case, and I still thought that price was pretty high.

I just have a hard time dropping more than $100 on a keyboard and $250 is probably my max.  The one I spent a ton on was my Kingsaver and that was because it was Alps.  Even that was hard to justify.  When I see people dropping $750+ on a keyboard, it makes me question their sanity.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 29 March 2015, 14:04:21
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KnivesM on Sun, 29 March 2015, 14:12:54
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...
I like hyperfuse but I agree on Miami
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sun, 29 March 2015, 14:20:45
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...

miami for sure
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 14:34:31
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...
+1
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Huxley2500 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 20:43:34
Blue Cherry MX clicks soothes the soul.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 20:50:48
Blue Cherry MX clicks soothes the soul.
damn straight
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 29 March 2015, 20:51:51
Blue Cherry MX clicks soothes the soul.

Like nails on a chalkboard to me.  Too damn shrill.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sun, 29 March 2015, 21:09:45
Blue Cherry MX clicks soothes the soul.

#dattruth
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hiroyuki on Mon, 30 March 2015, 00:41:41
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...

+1, I agree with you on this one...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 30 March 2015, 17:44:15
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...

I have a Miami set and would agree, ha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoC_Tow on Mon, 30 March 2015, 17:57:32
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...

D=

I <3 both, but I can see how Miami might not fit everyones taste. =)


I have a Miami set and would agree, ha.


If you don't like your Miami set, I wouldn't mind buying one speedbumb! xD



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 01 April 2015, 02:37:17
imo, plate with holes for opening switches is ridiculous...   You are not going to change your switches as often as keycaps.  I think most people just stay with the same switches after they assembly the keyboard.  I really don't get the idea of plate with "holes"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Wed, 01 April 2015, 07:17:18
imo, plate with holes for opening switches is ridiculous...   You are not going to change your switches as often as keycaps.  I think most people just stay with the same switches after they assembly the keyboard.  I really don't get the idea of plate with "holes"

What if you sell the keyboard and someone else wants a different switch? I've passed on a lot of keyboards in the classifieds b/c I don't feel like desoldering 80+ switches.

Also, it's plausible someone wants to change from a 62g ergo-Clear, to a 68g ergo-Clear. Notched cutouts make that a breeze.

In addition, perhaps several years down the line, you want to relube, notched cutouts make that much easier.

Having switch cutouts doesn't take anything away, but only adds more options.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:00:20
[...] Model Ms [...] suck.

I know you've already explained this, but I still need to call you out for it.

 >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:23:29
[...] Model Ms [...] suck.

I know you've already explained this, but I still need to call you out for it.

 >:D

Why do you care so much what other people think of Model M keyboards?

Good question.  Maybe I shouldn't.  Thanks.

To each their own.  Happy-happy joy-joy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:25:31
Here's a shocker for most of you guys.

I prefer the feel of stock keycaps.

:D

So I've gone through IMSTO PBT, GMK ABS Double Shot ABS, Vortex Double Shot PBT, Vortex Grey PBT Blank (Similar to Poker stock PBT), and in the end I went back to stock thin ABS keycaps on my Filco (MX Red).

I was trying to find the perfect keycaps but in the end PBT is just too harsh for me.  I like how ABS absorbs a bit of the vibration and feels more "comfortable" to use.

Here is another unpopular opinion, I also like the feel of coated backlit keycaps LOLLLLL.

I like the feel of softer keycaps, if only this was more resistant to shine then it would've been perfect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:26:18
[...] Model Ms [...] suck.

I know you've already explained this, but I still need to call you out for it.

 >:D

Model Ms are the Cherry MY of the Buckling Spring world.  Sure, we call them mechanical, but they're still just mediocre to crappy feeling membrane boards in a fancy suit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:26:25
Here's a shocker for most of you guys.

I prefer the feel of stock keycaps.

:D

So I've gone through IMSTO PBT, GMK ABS Double Shot ABS, Vortex Double Shot PBT, Vortex Grey PBT Blank (Similar to Poker stock PBT), and in the end I went back to stock thin ABS keycaps on my Filco (MX Red).

I was trying to find the perfect keycaps but in the end PBT is just too harsh for me.  I like how ABS absorbs a bit of the vibration and feels more "comfortable" to use.

Here is another unpopular opinion, I also like the feel of coated backlit keycaps LOLLLLL.

I like the feel of softer keycaps, if only this was more resistant to shine then it would've been perfect.

 :eek: :eek: :eek:

I guess this is good for you, though.  Much cheaper than the alternative.  :))


[...] Model Ms [...] suck.

I know you've already explained this, but I still need to call you out for it.

 >:D

Model Ms are the Cherry MY of the Buckling Spring world.  Sure, we call them mechanical, but they're still just mediocre to crappy feeling membrane boards in a fancy suit.

I can agree with MX : F :: MY : M, but I cannot agree that MY ~ M.  M is still a wonderful typing experience, and the same cannot be said about MY.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:34:34
You just haven't tried the Black MY switches or new fresh out the box MY switches.  They feel like a linear version of Model Ms.  Both are disappointing, only one of them is overrated and the other is demonized.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:37:47
You just haven't tried the Black MY switches or new fresh out the box MY switches.  They feel like a linear version of Model Ms.  Both are disappointing, only one of them is overrated and the other is demonized.

I actually just received a Black MY board (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70562.msg1703616#msg1703616)!   :-*

I still disagree.  But I'm also not a fan of linear switches, so for you to compare them to Model M does not compute in my brain.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:39:39
Here's a shocker for most of you guys.

I prefer the feel of stock keycaps.

:D

So I've gone through IMSTO PBT, GMK ABS Double Shot ABS, Vortex Double Shot PBT, Vortex Grey PBT Blank (Similar to Poker stock PBT), and in the end I went back to stock thin ABS keycaps on my Filco (MX Red).

I was trying to find the perfect keycaps but in the end PBT is just too harsh for me.  I like how ABS absorbs a bit of the vibration and feels more "comfortable" to use.

Here is another unpopular opinion, I also like the feel of coated backlit keycaps LOLLLLL.

I like the feel of softer keycaps, if only this was more resistant to shine then it would've been perfect.

 :eek: :eek: :eek:

I guess this is good for you, though.  Much cheaper than the alternative.  :))

lol but I only find this out after spending maybe around $500 on various keycaps.  :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:55:09
[Cherry MY] feel like a linear version of Model Ms.
This doesn’t make any sense.

If you picked 100 random people off the street, gave them a Model M and a Cherry MY board, not a single one would think they feel remotely similar.

In other words, you win the thread: this is a very unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 03 April 2015, 22:00:36
[Cherry MY] feel like a linear version of Model Ms.
This doesn’t even make sense.

It makes perfect sense.  It feels like the dime a dozen spring over membrane typewriter keyboards that are basically a Model M without a hammer in their operation.  Since they are both spring over membrane (Model Ms just have a hammer), it is not unreasonable to say that it feels like a linear version of a Model M.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 03 April 2015, 22:01:13
I think using phantom with 1.25x bottom row ansi layout in filco stock case is ridiculous
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 03 April 2015, 22:11:15
[Cherry MY] feel like a linear version of Model Ms.
This doesn’t even make sense.

It makes perfect sense.  It feels like the dime a dozen spring over membrane typewriter keyboards that are basically a Model M without a hammer in their operation.  Since they are both spring over membrane (Model Ms just have a hammer), it is not unreasonable to say that it feels like a linear version of a Model M.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! 
Okay!  That's your unpopular opinion.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 22:13:44
I think using phantom with 1.25x bottom row ansi layout in filco stock case is ridiculous

But what if you have split backspace and reprogram other aspects of the board? 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 03 April 2015, 23:15:53
I think using phantom with 1.25x bottom row ansi layout in filco stock case is ridiculous

But what if you have split backspace and reprogram other aspects of the board?
I should be more clear, i mean exact same layout as a ansi filco.  I have seen that few time.  I feel that way because you can simply put a different controller in it  and reprogram the whole thing. of course, split backspace is cool  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 23:27:20
I think using phantom with 1.25x bottom row ansi layout in filco stock case is ridiculous

But what if you have split backspace and reprogram other aspects of the board?
I should be more clear, i mean exact same layout as a ansi filco.  I have seen that few time.  I feel that way because you can simply put a different controller in it  and reprogram the whole thing. of course, split backspace is cool  :p

I figured that's what you were getting at.  ;)  I agree, using the default layout is a bit strange.  :P 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sat, 04 April 2015, 02:42:11
LOL, what a funny topic. The forum's delightful bulleted-list feature was made for this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 04 April 2015, 02:45:31
LOL, what a funny topic. The forum's delightful bulleted-list feature was made for this.
  • Model M's are awesome, but paying 2–3x as much for a SSK? Because they're smaller and cuter or something? Okay, there's the rarity/collectability thing—but what if a sudden career change requires you to become an accountant? Then there you are, stuck with a goofy "embedded" numpad for which you paid all that extra dough. This could happen to any of us.
  • 60% keyboards are goofy for most people. But what if you're a coder who uses Vim or Emacs or another text editor that lets you do anything in the universe without moving your arms? In fact, I always assumed 60% were designed for those people, for whom any more % is a waste. If you're not one of these people, don't get a 60% and stop whining.
  • Gaming keyboards that look like Star Wars props. Maybe you should just get out more?
  • $200 keycaps with little robot faces? Hello? I can't help thinking of "The Emperor's New Clothes", remember that story? Sometimes people indulge in the goofiest things just to feel included. "Yeah, these guys think these little $200 robot-face keycaps are really cool, so they must be worth all that dough. After all, they're not just keycaps—they have little robot faces!" Sorry, but buying into random high-priced stuff just because other people are doing it is a sign of neediness, not individuality. A new Mercedes may be ridiculously overpriced—but unlike an artsy-craftsy un-ergonomic raised-surface keycap, your experience of using it will probably be an improvement. And it actually means something—it's a car.
  • Backlighting. So you're looking at your KB when you use it? You're not a touch typist then? This you want to advertise? Blank keys, now, that's impressive. You'd probably want to backlight those too, though.
  • The tattoos-all-over-your-body thing. Did you know that for most of the 19th and 20th centuries people like that were considered freaks, and other people paid to gape at them in circus sideshows because they were so horrendously odd? And that now, with so many people doing that to themselves, it's not even odd anymore—so all you are is a common freak? What's next, people festooning their bodies with little robot-face keycaps? (That's why this is keyboard-related.)
Sure some people might put caps on their board because other people are, but I know I do it to support the artist, because thats what it is, a work of art for your keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sat, 04 April 2015, 04:35:01
I like dancers, too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to hire one to dance on my KB.

Well, okay, maybe if she's wearing a robot mask... That would make a big difference.  :?D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Sat, 04 April 2015, 18:22:22
FC660M is the ONE TRUE LAYOUT!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: slaction on Sat, 04 April 2015, 21:50:10
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 04 April 2015, 22:03:19
FC660M is the ONE TRUE LAYOUT!

That is pretty unpopular.  Right up there with love for 75% boards.  There's just so much wasted space.


Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

There are more than a few people who feel that way.  I still like them as accent pieces, but everyone feels differently about them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 04 April 2015, 23:43:01
FC660M is the ONE TRUE LAYOUT!


I like it, but it is really hard to get sets that has the second left shift, and almost impossible to get the space bar with those strange stem positions. In the aesthetics side, the lack of symmetry may be annoying some times.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Sun, 05 April 2015, 03:43:59
FC660M is the ONE TRUE LAYOUT!

That is pretty unpopular.  Right up there with love for 75% boards.  There's just so much wasted space.

I like the little strip of whitespace on the side. I find it more relaxing and less oppressive to look at than something like a poker or v60 which I find like a "wall of keys." It's just a little detail that sets the whole thing off nicely.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:14:09
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

This is unpopular? Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass. And who are these people paying for keys, which the better you are as a typist, the less you look at? Those skull ones are particularly awful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:32:48
Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass.

Mandolin creates some stunning artworks, but then they are so nice that you don't want to actually USE them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:35:17
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

This is unpopular? Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass. And who are these people paying for keys, which the better you are as a typist, the less you look at? Those skull ones are particularly awful.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said they hated artisans...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:37:43
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

This is unpopular? Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass. And who are these people paying for keys, which the better you are as a typist, the less you look at? Those skull ones are particularly awful.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said they hated artisans...

You'd have enough to win a Clack auction on eBay.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shroomster on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:52:19
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

This is unpopular? Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass. And who are these people paying for keys, which the better you are as a typist, the less you look at? Those skull ones are particularly awful.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said they hated artisans...

You'd have enough to win a Clack auction on eBay.
Oh Christ, thanks for the giggles. Made my day. :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 06 April 2015, 00:32:28
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).

Mechanical boards can be nice- I've loved my several Model Ms and my Alps boards, but Cherry MX? Nice form factor and key cap options, but from a typing perspective I just don't get the hype.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 06 April 2015, 14:16:41
  • The tattoos-all-over-your-body thing. Did you know that for most of the 19th and 20th centuries people like that were considered freaks, and other people paid to gape at them in circus sideshows because they were so horrendously odd? And that now, with so many people transforming themselves into human versions of 1980's airbrushed custom vans, it's not even odd anymore—so all you are is a common freak? What's next, people gluing little robot-face keycaps all over their bodies? (That's why this is keyboard-related, see... I'm prepared for anything.)

> Thread for unpopular keyboard opinions

> Calls people freaks for something completely unrelated to keyboards

I know you're just a troll, but come on man.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Mon, 06 April 2015, 14:59:46

*I simply dont like linear switches.
*I kind of like mx browns.
*I like building keyboards more than i like writing on them.
*Ive never felt the urge to get a artisan cap, and therfore i hate that the classifieds is filled with them :P, we should get a artisan marketplace.
*I love thick OEM PBT keycaps.

Probably more, but right now, i dont know if they are unpopular :)



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Barbastruzzolo on Tue, 07 April 2015, 01:51:48
- For me the only correct way to cut, copy, paste with keyboard is RIGHT CTRL + [XCV]. So I don't get all this caps lock remapping thing...
- For the same reason i dislike all keyboards that don't have a right ctrl key (even if i own a Filco Minila in my collection).
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).
- I don't like Windows keys and I think keyboards are better looking without them.
- I think kilohertz polling rate is useless.
- I think all "gaming" keyboards are ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 07 April 2015, 06:43:45
- I think all "gaming" keyboards are ugly.
one of the most popular opinions around here :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Tue, 07 April 2015, 07:19:46
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 07 April 2015, 07:23:05
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.

The granite approach : big kit for international users, that can be split. Not sure if any set but Granite can pull this off though.
(https://massdrop-cf2.imgix.net/resizer/797x777/r/MD-3318_20140823133913_ab4e2c31006eef73.jpg?fm=jpg&q=70)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Baxter on Tue, 07 April 2015, 07:41:22
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.

The granite approach : big kit for international users, that can be split. Not sure if any set but Granite can pull this off though.

As a european and an ISO user I'm generally happy with this compromise, at least on SP I'm happier with the bargain that I'm paying more for keycaps that I won't use in return for consolidating niche requirements that were always going to fail individually (with the added benefit that I might be making 3 Italians happy).

Better I'm down an extra £18 for a complete set than stuck with a partial set that missed completion by one vote.

I'm not really sure where the critical cost lies for SP since they have given in to special pleading for extras that just missed their tipping point in the past.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 07 April 2015, 14:27:16
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).

Mechanical boards can be nice- I've loved my several Model Ms and my Alps boards, but Cherry MX? Nice form factor and key cap options, but from a typing perspective I just don't get the hype.

Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Tue, 07 April 2015, 14:45:32
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.

The granite approach : big kit for international users, that can be split. Not sure if any set but Granite can pull this off though.

As a european and an ISO user I'm generally happy with this compromise, at least on SP I'm happier with the bargain that I'm paying more for keycaps that I won't use in return for consolidating niche requirements that were always going to fail individually (with the added benefit that I might be making 3 Italians happy).

Better I'm down an extra £18 for a complete set than stuck with a partial set that missed completion by one vote.

I'm not really sure where the critical cost lies for SP since they have given in to special pleading for extras that just missed their tipping point in the past.

i'm not specifically replying to you, just commenting on intl legends.


has anyone broken down those sets into mutually exclusive languages?

for a set supporting german, norweigan, and swedish, let's say norweigan and swedish share 1 key, but german is completely exclusive.  a swedish buyer could sell some of his intl legends set to a german buyer and get half of his money back, but could NOT do the same with a norweigan buyer
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Ettasian on Tue, 07 April 2015, 15:06:27
1. I prefer XT layout over AT.
2. Good linear switches are best, most clickers suck ass and tend to get 'old 'n rusty'
3. I like MX Reds. For typing.
4. Backlight is just an addition to a keyboard, but it can look awesome and even help (green backlit can help your eyes actually)
5. I would rather buy an old M, F or some cherries or even alps over 26MacroKeys99KRO revolutionary gamin' keyboard anytime.
6. I don't collect keyboards because they make me type faster(50WPM maybe, don't even care), or neither i want to show off, I just gather some great pieces of modern craftsmanship that are also great tools for work and entertainment, and I just feel better with them by my side, and i preserve them.

And last..

7.I am listening to Celine Dion at this very moment. And I love you all. Also RIPster is a great guy for all he does for keyboard science.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 07 April 2015, 20:52:30
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).
Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.


NKRO is completely overrated. For $100+, I want a serious keyboard that is a dream to type on, not a crappy Razer that will let me pwn n00bs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 07 April 2015, 20:56:55
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).
Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.


NKRO is completely overrated. For $100+, I want a serious keyboard that is a dream to type on, not a crappy Razer that will let me pwn n00bs.
I mean, NKRO is useful for certain games that require large combinations of keys. I personally have never found a use for more than 6KRO, but some people do. Some people use keyboards for purposes other than typing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 08 April 2015, 07:16:20
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).
Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.


NKRO is completely overrated. For $100+, I want a serious keyboard that is a dream to type on, not a crappy Razer that will let me pwn n00bs.

Tell me about your membrane keyboard with 6KRO and not just a crappy "optimized" matrix. (BTW some vendors are crippling their products on purpose; look up, say, Logitech K800/Illuminated and Shift-W-spacebar—the combo worked in some early revisions, but not the newer ones; what did the support answer? buy a keyboard marketed as "gaming" instead.)

If the keyboard doesn't distinguish between modifiers and ordinary (single-tap) keys, it's much more elegant and makes remapping easier (e.g., something like a more aggressive wide mod), although it doesn't really matter with 6KRO over USB in practice.

If you want some actual use cases, here you go: stenography, local multiplayer on a single keyboard, piano simulators. I've done each of that over the years.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 08 April 2015, 09:21:09
If the keyboard doesn't distinguish between modifiers and ordinary (single-tap) keys, it's much more elegant and makes remapping easier (e.g., something like a more aggressive wide mod), although it doesn't really matter with 6KRO over USB in practice.

If you want some actual use cases, here you go: stenography, local multiplayer on a single keyboard, piano simulators. I've done each of that over the years.

Riiight... so that's sub one percent of keyboard users? If you need it, good for you. The more power to all the stenographers out there, or people who want to play piano on a computer, instead of, you know, a piano. I'm not sure what "local multiplayer on a single keyboard" means though.

Edit: I'm not that serious about knocking 6KRO or NKRO, I just don't think that it's really a huge deal for most people, especially people who just want to type or code. I happen to game a little and appreciate 6KRO, but I wouldn't base my keyboard decision on it because I spent most the time typing instead of playing games. I haven't even bothered to enable NKRO on my board, and all it requires is flipping a DIP switch.

My original point is that IMO, Cherry MX is a bit of a crappy feeling mechanism... it just feels too full of compromises without lots of modification effort. I know this is an unpopular opinion, which is why I posted it in the "unpopular keyboard opinions" thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 08 April 2015, 11:42:27
If the keyboard doesn't distinguish between modifiers and ordinary (single-tap) keys, it's much more elegant and makes remapping easier (e.g., something like a more aggressive wide mod), although it doesn't really matter with 6KRO over USB in practice.

If you want some actual use cases, here you go: stenography, local multiplayer on a single keyboard, piano simulators. I've done each of that over the years.

Riiight... so that's sub one percent of keyboard users? If you need it, good for you. The more power to all the stenographers out there, or people who want to play piano on a computer, instead of, you know, a piano. I'm not sure what "local multiplayer on a single keyboard" means though.

Actually, I wouldn't be so eager to claim that.

My dad returned a new ergonomic keyboard, because it generated ghosts instead of registering some keyboard shortcuts with embedded numpad, rendering it unusable with the DTP software he'd been using.
I played Frets on Fire a lot with friends in high school, and the game required chording typically several function keys like if they were frets on a guitar. The game was quite popular.
We played lots of multiplayer DOS games on a single keyboard e.g., at retro IT parties in college. Totally random.
I've seen questions about piano simulation many times on various tech support forums, usually asked by developers that needed to record only a couple of samples.
And so on and so on.

Arguably, there's a relatively big risk anyone can run into potentially ghosting/blocking situation on some unexpected occasion. Not a big deal in general, but still annoying… and absolutely unnecessary, because a technical solution has been around for ages.

My original point is that IMO, Cherry MX is a bit of a crappy feeling mechanism... it just feels too full of compromises without lots of modification effort. I know this is an unpopular opinion, which is why I posted it in the "unpopular keyboard opinions" thread.

That (a) isn't even an unpopular opinion around here, but (b) it's not like more than "sub one percent of keyboard users" actually cares.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 08 April 2015, 12:36:33
I actually quite enjoy the feel of the switches on the Razer Blackwidow 2014. I think it's a decent board, my brother has one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Wed, 08 April 2015, 16:31:01
I think ripster is a really cool guy. kills aleins and doesn't afraid of anything.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fullcream on Wed, 08 April 2015, 18:43:56
Caps lock is a useful function.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: IdentityNon on Wed, 08 April 2015, 19:24:59
Caps lock is a useful function.

AS somebody WHO sometimes LIKES to BE as OBNOXIOUS as POSSIBLE i AGREE!1
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rsac on Sun, 03 May 2015, 15:40:17
Caps lock seems a very popular topic here.

I still disagree that [caps lock] sucks. I'm one of the extreme minority of people that capitalize letters by double-tapping Caps lock. Is it inefficient and stupid? Perhaps, but I maintain about 95 WPM, so I don't really see the value in learning the "correct" way to apply Caps.
See:
By the way the typing champion Sean Wrona uses Caps Lock even to type 1 capital leter in a word! It's fascinating, but it's really faster for him to hit Caps Lock twice, than coordinating pushing 2 keys at the same time when he's flying at 200WPM.

https://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25711-proper-touch-typing&p=483599&viewfull=1#post483599 (https://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25711-proper-touch-typing&p=483599&viewfull=1#post483599)

You’d be much better off with a key to capitalize just the immediately following letter.

Or perhaps a key which acts like shift if you hold it down, but capitalizes just the next letter if you quickly press and release it.
I'm thinking in implementing a key like this.
Tap = Apply shift to the next key pressed
Hold = Normal shift
Double tap fast = Toggle caps lock (yeah, capslock is nice to have)

That way one could type faster and more confortably, eliminate one key from the keyboard and still use shift while in caplock mode.

AS somebody WHO sometimes LIKES to BE as OBNOXIOUS as POSSIBLE i AGREE!1
yOU cAn bE EvEn mOrE AnNoyIng w/O UsIng cAps LOck
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Sun, 03 May 2015, 15:45:09
I'm thinking in implementing a key like this.
Tap = Apply shift to the next key pressed
...
Double tap fast = Toggle caps lock (yeah, capslock is nice to have)
i'll see if i can create this using AutoHotkey
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Sun, 03 May 2015, 17:52:36
This might be easier than I thought..let's see.


...guess it's harder than I thought.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 03 May 2015, 17:59:31
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 03 May 2015, 18:37:02
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Need to get you some good dyesub then.  A lot of the stuff I see know is that way, but my typewriter stuff is crisp.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eszett on Sun, 03 May 2015, 19:37:40
my personal hatechart:
1. OS-specific keys have no right to be on a keyboard, especially those win keys
2. menu key, for existing
3. CapsLock, for existing
4. tabulator key, for sitting on a prominent place on the keyboard whilst beeing used rather low-frequently
5. ISO enter key, for it's an ugly monstrosity
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Sun, 03 May 2015, 19:37:45
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Need to get you some good dyesub then.  A lot of the stuff I see know is that way, but my typewriter stuff is crisp.
I get the sense that dye sublimation is one of those things that's easy to do, but hard to do right. As opposed to doubleshot molding, which appears to just be hard to do.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 03 May 2015, 21:44:18
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 03 May 2015, 21:56:58
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

bro, they all feel the same. anybody says different they are liars or have sensitive fingers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 03 May 2015, 21:57:38
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.
Isn’t this just a fact about the market, rather than an opinion?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Sun, 03 May 2015, 22:11:30
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.

I'll go ahead and be unpopular with you. But I'll add a qualification that the Model F is in comparable condition to a new Topre. Dumpster boards with missing keys and dried-on boogers may be diamonds in the rough, but until they're restored it's only unrealized potential.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 04 May 2015, 00:34:45
I think the Model F is a much more repairable product than the Topre, though.

A Topre board has a relatively ordinary PCB, in a relatively ordinary case, and rubber domes doomed to wear out (that aren't really widely traded around).

In comparison, the most irreplacable part of a F is the PCB, which is securely protected by about seven kilos of steel, and the XTant people are working on that one.  The flippers and springs, caps, and even barrels can be scavenged, and most of them are getting controller swaps or converters anyway.

You can hoard and hold those dumpster Fs until they become worth using.  I can recall that 122Fs used to be useless-- no easy way to make them speak a normal protocol-- then Soarer happened and the whole economy reset.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 04 May 2015, 01:22:22
Keyboards that bent the plate as a case looks horrible to me.

I don't like skeleton style keyboard case.

I don't like Hyperfuse and Penumbra keyset. 

I think the Lily set is the best looking keyset so far.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 04 May 2015, 07:11:17

You can hoard and hold those dumpster Fs until they become worth using.  I can recall that 122Fs used to be useless


@jacobolus Isn’t this just a fact about the market, rather than an opinion? - for about a week there I could quote you

I was referring to the firestorm that ellipse received when he sold some of his jewels. F-122s are not rare, merely uncommon.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Mon, 04 May 2015, 10:20:59
-ISO is far superior to ANSI → since keyboard width is narrower than shoulder width, hands naturally angle inward, and the extra top space on ISO Enter comes in handy (have used both ISO and ANSI equally for the last decade)  :thumb:
-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D
-purely on form factor alone, M2's are superior to Model M's. F's are fine, because they're like that strange looking face you can't stop staring at.  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 04 May 2015, 10:45:35
-ISO is far superior to ANSI → since keyboard width is narrower than shoulder width, hands naturally angle inward, and the extra top space on ISO Enter comes in handy (have used both ISO and ANSI equally for the last decade)  :thumb:
-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D
-purely on form factor alone, M2's are superior to Model M's. F's are fine, because they're like that strange looking face you can't stop staring at.  :-*

Huh?  Are you serious?  I have the opposite opinion about ISO/ANSI.  I guess it's a matter of preference. 

If you are talking about form factor, I suppose that is why Unicomp made the Ultra Classic; instead of just producing M2 keyboards.  There is a difference.  I'd rather get the Classic. 

I have no idea what you are getting at about Model F keyboards. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 04 May 2015, 11:24:42

  • Full sized keyboards should all be made with the num pad arrow keys, and so on on the left hand side.


Like this?
(https://www.dsi-keyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Screen-Shot-2015-02-19-at-11.53.06-AM.png)

Or this?
(https://www.dsi-keyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/left1.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Mon, 04 May 2015, 11:34:30
The Miami set is hideous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Asininity on Mon, 04 May 2015, 14:40:19
Browns are the best switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 15:23:02

-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D


You numb :P pad lovers need to learn to type properly. It's much faster/efficient and more "ergo" to use the number row.
http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 15:28:43
...also caps lock hatred is just a fad....a silly little fad...
It's absolutely necessary for efficient typing and some software requires everything be done in caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 04 May 2015, 15:50:14
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Need to get you some good dyesub then.  A lot of the stuff I see know is that way, but my typewriter stuff is crisp.
I get the sense that dye sublimation is one of those things that's easy to do, but hard to do right. As opposed to doubleshot molding, which appears to just be hard to do.

Dyesub is "just" diffusion, which is technically fairly easy to do.  One of the hard parts is to make sure that it doesn't also diffuse outward and make blurry legends.

(note: not a keycap dyesub expert)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 04 May 2015, 16:45:18

-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D


You numb :P pad lovers need to learn to type properly. It's much faster/efficient and more "ergo" to use the number row.
http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
How's that for an unpopular opinion?


The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.

And for you programmers:
(http://www.decodesystems.com/je600-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:03:21
vintage Browns are the best switches.
FTFY
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:04:24
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:16:10
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

i'm pretty sure this is *popular* opinion :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:30:35
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.


Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:41:41
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dubsgalore on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:43:09
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.


Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.

not a placebo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:49:22
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

That's why I say old, well used Blacks are smooth, it has nothing to do with the "vintage" pedigree.  It's why well used Browns and Blues can be quite nice compared to new.  Even so, people argue that unused "vintage" blacks are super smooth.


Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

Press them slowly or off center.  Mine all feel a little gritty, better than new Blacks, but worse than well used Blacks.  If you hit them perfectly straight, they do feel very smooth, but who has perfect up and down key strokes?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:07:59
The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.
Having a numpad in a little square is stupid. It should be something like:
(http://i.imgur.com/ofeQEC9.png)

(Don’t worry too much about the precise shape here, just the general idea.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:22:28
The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.
Having a numpad in a little square is stupid. It should be something like:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ofeQEC9.png)


(Don�t worry too much about the precise shape here, just the general idea.)

That is quite a trip. I like it. :) Though having a number like 7 under the middle finger seems kind of a waste. Perhaps having 9 and 0 on the thumb would be better, and having it split like 1234/5678/90 (with 7 under a wimpy ring finger) would be best.

Or you could order the numbers like Dvorak (ignore the staggered rows)...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/KB_DSKtypewriter.svg/900px-KB_DSKtypewriter.svg.png)

7 is off in Siberia, where it belongs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:34:30
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

That's why I say old, well used Blacks are smooth, it has nothing to do with the "vintage" pedigree.  It's why well used Browns and Blues can be quite nice compared to new.  Even so, people argue that unused "vintage" blacks are super smooth.
Do people argue that? I just see people talking about vintage switches in reference to older, very used switches. Only time I hear about a different material is with blues.

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

Press them slowly or off center.  Mine all feel a little gritty, better than new Blacks, but worse than well used Blacks.  If you hit them perfectly straight, they do feel very smooth, but who has perfect up and down key strokes?
well, off center hits are gonna be pressing the stem closer to the housing, so I'm not surprised it's a little less smooth. Though in regular typing I don't really hit off center enough to notice it
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:57:30
(http://i.imgur.com/ofeQEC9.png)

That is quite a trip. I like it. :) Though having a number like 7 under the middle finger seems kind of a waste. Perhaps having 9 and 0 on the thumb would be better, and having it split like 1234/5678/90 (with 7 under a wimpy ring finger) would be best.
The idea is to split up the low numbers 0–4, which should be most common, across the “home” position for the five fingers on the right hand, putting 0, 1, and 2 on the strongest fingers.

Then the next 5 digits are split up on the below-home-position keys for each finger. (Not exactly below for the thumb, but you get the idea...)

The overall idea is sorta similar to the Dvorak image you showed, except that in the Dvorak versions all the numbers are on the ****ty hard to reach top row. If you wanted the numbers could be split across the two hands, but I think there are some advantages to having them all on one hand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 20:01:57
Do people argue that? I just see people talking about vintage switches in reference to older, very used switches. Only time I hear about a different material is with blues.
Yes, if you find mint condition MX black switches from circa 1990, and mint condition MX black switches from 2015, there is an obvious difference between the smoothness of the two. The “vintage” MX switches still aren’t as nice as white space invaders, green Alps, or red Matias switches (among others), but they’re dramatically nicer than modern linear MX switches.

Wear may also affect the switches, but this effect is entirely independent of wear, and is probably about some combination of tooling changes, wear on the tooling, or changes in production process.

Anyway, it’s really not worth arguing about. MX switches and MX clones are crappy switches even at their best, and take ridiculous amounts of modding work to turn into something pleasant. We should all just collectively move on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:02:19
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.

Agree. How many known F77s are floating about? Less than ten? They're rarer than Kishsavers.0

-ISO is far superior to ANSI → since keyboard width is narrower than shoulder width, hands naturally angle inward, and the extra top space on ISO Enter comes in handy (have used both ISO and ANSI equally for the last decade)  :thumb:
-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D
-purely on form factor alone, M2's are superior to Model M's. F's are fine, because they're like that strange looking face you can't stop staring at.  :-*

Are you smoking crack? I have large hands; I can hit ANSI enter without moving my fingers from the home postion. I can't hit any part of ISO enter without moving my entire hand. :P

Agreed on second point. Gimme mah numbarz

Fs have some weird form factors. Like the one I'm using where I had to make my keyboard tray wider to still fit a mouse on there. XD

Keyboards that bent the plate as a case looks horrible to me.

I don't like Hyperfuse and Penumbra keyset. 

Agreed on bent plate.

Hyperfuse is great in theory but the sets I've seen photos of were incredibly meh. :< Penumbra is ugly.


You numb :P pad lovers need to learn to type properly. It's much faster/efficient and more "ergo" to use the number row.
http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
How's that for an unpopular opinion?

Given the difficulty of reaching the number row, it's pretty unpopular with me. Number row requires reaching or repositioning anyway and the use of both hands. Numpad just requires moving one hand a bit to the right, where it can easily operate by itself quickly and efficiently. As a bonus on QWERTY, if you need to put in Hex, A-F are all on the left hand that's still over on the main section. Embeded numbers on an actually ergo board or a matrix board would be even better from the standpoint of people who don't want their hands to move ever, but between number row and numberpad, giving a less-used hand something to do that it can do quickly and efficiently by itself beats reaching and overworking my left hand even more. It takes me almost no more time to move my hand to the numpad than it does to move to hit the number row, so bah to the number row.

The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.

And for you programmers:
Show Image
(http://www.decodesystems.com/je600-3.jpg)


Telephones are upside down. The progression from 0 at the bottom to 9 at the top makes perfect sense and puts 1 and 0 next to each other. It's a holdover from calculators and one of the very few sensible things on keyboards. ;)

The Miami set is hideous.

Preach it, brother. The teal is nice, but that hot pink, oof.

Having a numpad in a little square is stupid. It should be something like:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ofeQEC9.png)


(Don�t worry too much about the precise shape here, just the general idea.)

I prefer a separate numpad, but between this and the number row, this is much better by far.

Anyway, it�s really not worth arguing about. MX switches and MX clones are crappy switches even at their best, and take ridiculous amounts of modding work to turn into something pleasant. We should all just collectively move on.

I kind of like stock clears and blue/greens, but given the number of other switches that feel much better(Most Alps/Matias, buckling spring, random old switches like marquadt butterfly), I have to kind of agree. The only downside is of course keycap sets. (Which has been solved on Topre now. Alps... Exists but is imperfect and apparently breaks off in key stems easily, and buckling spring isn't AFAIK even being looked at, though curved plates would make that odd for anything but DSA/Row 3 SA anyway.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:23:58
I understand that using the number row is very unpopular, but to say that it's harder to reach or inefficient in comparison is just "rationalization" at it's finest. Your hands don't even leave the home row if you use the number row. Try it sometime, really try it for a few days or weeks, and see how you like it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:35:34
Your hands don't even leave the home row if you use the number row. Try it sometime, really try it for a few days or weeks, and see how you like it.

I'm not going to blow your theory off and not try it, but I have to ask a few questions first.

What home row are you talking about?  The number row (and calling it the home row)?  That's perfectly fine, I know this seems snarky, that's not the intent.  Just want to understand that it's a "new" home row while typing numbers.

Are you just typing a string of numbers with no other modifier use?  Using the numpad makes it exceptionally easy to enter data into excel, with easy access to tab, shift, enter, and the numbers (including '.').  How does using the number row help here?  This is by far the most common use of the numpad for myself and probably many others that do use the numpad regularly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:41:18
The home row is asdfghjkl; The goal of efficient typing is to try to not move your hands, only your fingers, from the home row. I use modifiers all of the time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:42:20
Usually though, if you are inputting large amounts of numbers that you need to use the numpad for, they aren't interspersed with letters, so it makes sense you using the numpad. It's close to the arrows and your mouse, you don't need letters with numbers :)

I agree with the 1 next to 0 as well. The numpad is perfectly laid out for sums :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:45:20
Do they teach you to use the numpad instead of the number row in school now? It seems like since the early 2000's everyone started using the numpad as the standard method.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:48:03
Usually though, if you are inputting large amounts of numbers that you need to use the numpad for, they aren't interspersed with letters, so it makes sense you using the numpad. It's close to the arrows and your mouse, you don't need letters with numbers :)

I agree with the 1 next to 0 as well. The numpad is perfectly laid out for sums :)

I can't argue with that really. I'm not an accountant or secretary though.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:59:58
I'm 31. I started typing on boards that didn't have number pads, on Apple IIe/IIc computers in grade school. So I started without them. Used a laptop that for gods know what reason didn't have an embedded number pad exclusively for a few weeks a couple years back when I had nothing else. I hated it. :P

I'll use the number row once in a while for inserting a single one or two digit number, like say 7 or 39, in the middle of text. Three digits is middling, anything more and I'm definitely over on the number pad. Also alt codes of course can't be done with the number row and I use those a fair bit as well. ♪

I can touch type the number row, I just find the number pad infinitely faster and better for anything where I'm actually working with numbers. Or phone numbers or credit card numbers or anything like that. I've worked in call centers before and you end up with number pads with wear in addition to the spacebars and common letters, rofl.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:04:29
Well, you know I'm not completely insane then. ;) Most people think I am for not using a numpad (even when I can), and I get it.

I've seen those battle scarred keyboards too...the poor little bastards...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eszett on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:39:18
Quite alot people here said, that numpad would be better positioned on the left side of the keyboard. I understand this, because by this, the right hand can rest on the mouse while the left hand is navigating with the arrows. But what about the arrow keys on a TKL, noone spoke about them? They should be on the left side too, for the same reason, right?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:40:55
I understand that using the number row is very unpopular, but to say that it's harder to reach or inefficient in comparison is just "rationalization" at it's finest. Your hands don't even leave the home row if you use the number row. Try it sometime, really try it for a few days or weeks, and see how you like it.
Huh? I have 15+ years experience touch typing numbers on the number row, and I use the number row constantly while using standard keyboards..... but it sucks, every time. It requires moving the hands off the home row or twisting the wrist, typing more than 2-3 digits at a time is ridiculously slow and error prone – compared to numbers on a layer closer to the home row or compared to a separate numpad – and some of the numbers (especially 1, 6, and 7) are in very awkward positions. Typing a single digit is fine, but text with shifted-number symbols and frequent multi-digit numbers (not to mention writing mathematical formulae or transcribing numbers from forms, etc.) is a huge pain.

You should try putting numbers and symbols on a layer triggered by a fn key. It’s night-and-day better.

Similarly, everyone should move the arrows onto a shifted layer instead of using separate arrow keys, get a split spacebar to put the delete key on, stop using ctrl keys in the corners of the keyboard, etc.

Having all the functions of the keyboard with 40–60 keys in a compact reachable space, ideally with 3–6 keys easily reachable by each thumb, and using layers liberally is dramatically more efficient than using a keyboard with 80–120 keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:46:40
The home row is asdfghjkl; The goal of efficient typing is to try to not move your hands, only your fingers, from the home row. I use modifiers all of the time.

Okay, so we're on the same page with home row (or rather, I'm unconfused in that regard :P ).  But what?  If I'm going to input a whole bunch of data using the number row, I am definitely going to move my hands up to reach the number row better.  And then the reach to Enter is awkward.  I'm really not following how using the number row is supposed to be better.  Like I said, I'm interested in learning if you truly do have some nuggets of wisdom, but you're going to need to offer up some additional info here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:52:16
Also, if you put in IP addresses, the full stop is even further away from the numbers than enter is. Having to press shift to gain access to the functions like equals and multiply is really counter productive as well.

I think the ability to memorise the distance between the numbers and not looking at the number row is a lot harder than learning the numpad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:55:31
I understand that using the number row is very unpopular, but to say that it's harder to reach or inefficient in comparison is just "rationalization" at it's finest. Your hands don't even leave the home row if you use the number row. Try it sometime, really try it for a few days or weeks, and see how you like it.
Huh? I have 15+ years experience touch typing numbers on the number row, and I use the number row constantly while using standard keyboards..... but it sucks, every time. It requires moving the hands off the home row or twisting the wrist, typing more than 2-3 digits at a time is ridiculously slow and error prone � compared to numbers on a layer closer to the home row or compared to a separate numpad � and some of the numbers (especially 1, 6, and 7) are in very awkward positions. Typing a single digit is fine, but text with shifted-number symbols and frequent multi-digit numbers (not to mention writing mathematical formulae or transcribing numbers from forms, etc.) is a huge pain.

You should try putting numbers and symbols on a layer triggered by a fn key. It�s night-and-day better.

Similarly, everyone should move the arrows onto a shifted layer instead of using separate arrow keys, get a split spacebar to put the delete key on, stop using ctrl keys in the corners of the keyboard, etc.

Having all the functions of the keyboard with 40�60 keys in a compact reachable space, ideally with 3�6 keys easily reachable by each thumb, and using layers liberally is dramatically more efficient than using a keyboard with 80�120 keys.

Huh? You just described my experience on the numpad. Error prone and awkward.

I program, fill in IP routing tables, and all kinds other stuff involving numbers and I'm perfectly comfortable and proficient with the number row. It's just a matter of personal preference. If you want to give it a shot this typing tutor really makes it easy to learn (more than the number row): http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 05 May 2015, 00:26:50
Huh? You just described my experience on the numpad. Error prone and awkward.
I promise you, that’s just lack of practice. For someone with equal amounts of practice on both, the numpad wins every time, hands down. (At least as long as all the input is numeric rather than a mix of numbers and words.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Asininity on Tue, 05 May 2015, 01:40:08
vintage Browns are the best switches.
FTFY

You mean Gaterons don't you?

Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Gateron blacks are the best **** out there.

I think my new found love for Gaterons might be a unpopular opinion in itself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Tue, 05 May 2015, 09:44:10
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 05 May 2015, 09:56:04
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

 :eek:

you just win this thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bucake on Tue, 05 May 2015, 10:48:38
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 05 May 2015, 10:58:23
^this is why that post wins the thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 05 May 2015, 11:15:13
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.

It's an opinion for his use.  He's not saying the form factor shouldn't exist, because obviously it should (people buy it because people like it).  But in his opinion it's dumb and worthless.  :P

For the record, I do not agree with this opinion.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Tue, 05 May 2015, 11:16:19
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.

Thought I personally love TKL, I can understand the viewpoint I think. In a world where we have fullsize and HappyHacker/60%, TKL probably isn't needed by most people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Herothereu on Tue, 05 May 2015, 11:57:51
I think 60% is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

FTFY
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Tue, 05 May 2015, 12:03:58
DSA profile is the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life. Not keycap profile, thing.


DSA keycaps are absolutely necessary!
(http://files.itproportal.com/wp-content/uploads/photos/maltron90-1_originalwm1.jpg)
Well, for some keyboards.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Tue, 05 May 2015, 13:05:58
i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.

Wow! It seems I did win. People have been flaming away at HHKBs, much-loved brands and community obsessions, and yet never got a single retort.

You don't understand my point. TKL is pointless not because it removes something, it is pointless because it removes the wrong thing. ;) Look at the arrow key cluster. It's 3 full keys wide, and is full of keys I don't remember the last time I ever used. (The ones I do use, like Home, End or Delete, are too far away, and you need to move your wrist - having them on an Fn layer would be a lot more productive.) It also has a lot of empty space.

So what if you removed this, and left the numpad there? You'd get ALL THIS, plus a numpad instead of all the empty space, "Scroll lock" and "Pause/Break" (what does that even DO?)

TKL is pointless because on a numpad you have THE SAME THING (arrows, navigation, ins del), on top of the numbers themselves, in the same desk real estate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 05 May 2015, 13:30:33
You don't have an inverted-T arrow cluster in the tenkey.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 05 May 2015, 13:33:12
You don't have an inverted-T arrow cluster in the tenkey.

this could be implemented, some CM storms do this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Tue, 05 May 2015, 13:39:18
You don't have an inverted-T arrow cluster in the tenkey.

Hm. I never even considered the inverted-T as an advantage compared to the plus-shaped arrow cluster on the numpad.

I guess on a programmable board you could make 5 a down arrow. (Having a hardware implemented numlock would be necessary anyway, for OSX.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Tue, 05 May 2015, 14:03:37
I'm going to join the TKL hate. Want more space? Get a 60%. When was the last time you really used scroll lock or pause/break? Does Pause/Break even DO anything?

TK makes infinitely more sense than TKL to me. And retains a numberpad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 05 May 2015, 14:15:56
I'm going to join the TKL hate. Want more space? Get a 60%. When was the last time you really used scroll lock or pause/break? Does Pause/Break even DO anything?

TK makes infinitely more sense than TKL to me. And retains a numberpad.

Home, Del, End, Pg[UpDn] and arrow keys are useful rather than having to use a button to activate a second layer when you are working with a GUI. but yes, for linux and command-line, 60% is king. unfortunately most people are forced to use winblows at work and it can get quite annoying doing certain tasks without those keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Tue, 05 May 2015, 15:10:12
Cherry switches are actually pretty bad. Same goes for Topre.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: unoab on Tue, 05 May 2015, 16:13:41
You don't have an inverted-T arrow cluster in the tenkey.

Hm. I never even considered the inverted-T as an advantage compared to the plus-shaped arrow cluster on the numpad.

I guess on a programmable board you could make 5 a down arrow. (Having a hardware implemented numlock would be necessary anyway, for OSX.)

it doesn't even have to be that high up in the tenkey, you could do something like I have on my phantom where fn2 toggles the 2nd function layer that just switches between an arrow cluster or numpad (oh, and I always have numlock enabled so the numpad is just strictly numbers):
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb385/unoab/keyboards/phantom_numpad.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 05 May 2015, 16:31:18
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

yeah but buying them NOS, changing the spring and then preaching about how great the "vintage" switch is, is crap and just sheep repeating what they read.

a lot of people believe because it's old it's the same thing, and it's not. but nobody ever listens to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Tue, 05 May 2015, 16:43:53
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

yeah but buying them NOS, changing the spring and then preaching about how great the "vintage" switch is, is crap and just sheep repeating what they read.

a lot of people believe because it's old it's the same thing, and it's not. but nobody ever listens to me.
I personally haven't done anything to my vintage blacks yet, I have only typed on the board they came on, and now I have started desoldering them. I know mine are so smooth because of years of wear, as with any other switch that is old.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Tue, 05 May 2015, 17:37:53
I've got one. Spacebars, as currently implemented, are stupid beyond belief and need to die in a fire. 6.25 is bad, 7 even moreso, 6 is still ridiculous. There's a massive, massive amount of thumb space that could be used for useful things like shift or enter or backspace or other actually useful things instead of killing your pinkies using them while exactly one of your thumbs does anything at all, and generally does it in a space less than 3u wide. The shiny spot on the ABS spacebar I have on a board is less than 2u, actually, right below v and b.

The right hand bottom mods are pointless and something more useful should be put there. Right shift is also pointless for me, but I realize some people use it, but it really does not need to be that big.

Here, have this: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/dbd75b62a6807de3d92801452e5c976c

Flip the Fn-ness of the arrows and nav keys if you like. Yes, yes, I'm the only one who uses the spacebar left handed, swap that and backspace if you want. I know there's redundant keys on this, I'm lazy at the moment. I still don't really advocate this because row staggering like a typewriter is stupid, but at least it does something slight less dumb with the bottom row than using most of it for one giant key. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rsac on Tue, 05 May 2015, 21:09:14
Making a chorus with Nai_Calus: there is no point in making custom keyboards with custom PCBs and key plates and not using the oportunity to at least split the spacebar.

Keeping the typewriter staggering at least has the argument of muscle memory, but if you will already overwrite part of your muscle memory with layers in a 40~70% board, then why not go all the way?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Wed, 06 May 2015, 01:16:15
After reading a few replies here, I say kudos to limitz for the post.  :thumb:
By essentially prefacing all opinions as 'unpopular', people are actually productively discussing personal keyboard preferences! Unpopular puffin to the rescue!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bucake on Wed, 06 May 2015, 15:48:37
i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.

Wow! It seems I did win. People have been flaming away at HHKBs, much-loved brands and community obsessions, and yet never got a single retort.

You don't understand my point. TKL is pointless not because it removes something, it is pointless because it removes the wrong thing. ;) Look at the arrow key cluster. It's 3 full keys wide, and is full of keys I don't remember the last time I ever used. (The ones I do use, like Home, End or Delete, are too far away, and you need to move your wrist - having them on an Fn layer would be a lot more productive.) It also has a lot of empty space.

So what if you removed this, and left the numpad there? You'd get ALL THIS, plus a numpad instead of all the empty space, "Scroll lock" and "Pause/Break" (what does that even DO?)

TKL is pointless because on a numpad you have THE SAME THING (arrows, navigation, ins del), on top of the numbers themselves, in the same desk real estate.

you have a point, especially since TKL indeed has that unused space.
personally i use home, del and home alot. as well as arrow keys. i know a numpad has these keys, but since i've used the standard layout for about 20 years, i don't feel like changing the layout (tenkey vs tenkeyless).
i would not mind, at all, to adapt to someting new, but since i would only use home, del, end and the arrow keys of the numpad, there would really not be a point for me to change to a tenkey layout.

i guess i agree with you in the way that i think that TenKey makes more sense (less/no unused space, more keys).
personally, i'm sticking to TKL because the extra keys on a TenKey would not get any usage anyway, plus i'm used to TKL/full-sized layout.


as for the argument that there is 60%, well, i use my arrow keys a ton, as well as home, del and end.
not many, if any, 60% boards have these keys dedicated. i have, and love, 60% boards, but i always miss those dedicated keys while i am using that form factor.
i guess something like the hhkb with hasu's controller would be perfect for me, when it comes to layout. unfortunately i'll need to teach myself to build firmware first.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: steve.v on Wed, 06 May 2015, 21:58:13
1. Dislike boards greater than 60%. I don't understand why people would need so many keys to be productive. I can access everything in the letter columns via programmable; heck my space bar acts as a super key.

2. Dislike Cherry MX keys; too plastic feeling and cheap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 07 May 2015, 03:06:55
I can't feel the difference between lubed MX black and stock MX black, unless they are lubed with super thick lube.

Now a really unpopular one... I like new MX brown
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 07 May 2015, 11:04:29
I can't feel the difference between lubed MX black and stock MX black, unless they are lubed with super thick lube.

Now a really unpopular one... I like new MX brown

You monster!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chive_ on Thu, 07 May 2015, 13:42:09
40% keyboards might look cool, but their functionality is far too limited making them useless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Thu, 07 May 2015, 13:49:55
40% keyboards might look cool, but their functionality is far too limited making them useless.

not unpopular, more like... people too afraid to say it haha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 07 May 2015, 13:53:18
40% keyboards might look cool, but their functionality is far too limited making them useless.
Intended?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bludude4 on Thu, 07 May 2015, 13:55:45
SA is underrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Thu, 07 May 2015, 14:03:52
55g topre is horrible

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 07 May 2015, 14:09:44
I can't feel the difference between lubed MX black and stock MX black, unless they are lubed with super thick lube.

Now a really unpopular one... I like new MX brown

You monster!

  :))  everyone should enjoy that crispy feeling
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 07 May 2015, 14:53:01
SA is underrated.

Nothing unpopular about that.  There's an SA circlejerk right now.  I think it's way overrated.


55g topre is horrible



I can't stand Topre outside of the HHKB.  Realforce, FC660C, and Novatouch were all miserable to me.

I can't feel the difference between lubed MX black and stock MX black, unless they are lubed with super thick lube.

Now a really unpopular one... I like new MX brown

You monster!

  :))  everyone should enjoy that crispy crunchy feeling

There you go   ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: noons on Thu, 07 May 2015, 15:47:44
I dislike cherry mx blue's.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 07 May 2015, 16:22:00
I dislike cherry mx blue's.
Have to agree. I'm mostly wearing headphones when in front of the computer which dampens the click a lot and then I realized that they don't feel a lot different than Browns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BrewCaps on Thu, 07 May 2015, 18:57:59
Pok3r is all hype.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:02:49
Pok3r is all hype.

I've never liked the Poker 2 really anyway...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:04:49
Pok3r is all hype.

I've never liked the Poker 2 really anyway...
How does this relate to the Pok3r since it aims to improve some weak points of the Poker II?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:08:23
Pok3r is all hype.

I've never liked the Poker 2 really anyway...
How does this relate to the Pok3r since it aims to improve some weak points of the Poker II?

No idea.

(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/keychatter_2015-03-21_21-25-53-679x350.jpg)

(http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/images/products/large_458_sdc12627.jpg)

They look completely different.

And the names aren't similar either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:15:00
Pok3r is all hype.

I've never liked the Poker 2 really anyway...
How does this relate to the Pok3r since it aims to improve some weak points of the Poker II?

No idea.

Show Image
(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/keychatter_2015-03-21_21-25-53-679x350.jpg)


Show Image
(http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/images/products/large_458_sdc12627.jpg)


They look completely different.

And the names aren't similar either.
I get what you mean. I originally was thinking more about internal features.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:17:12
I never bought one, they just never appealed to me. I like my V60, and I didn't know what was so special about the Poker2. I guess I chose a 75% over a Poker initially and never went back to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Magna224 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 05:19:09
MX blues suck. That's my unpopular opinion. A two piece stem is a terrible idea and that jig feels awful. Its the worst switch I have ever felt. Id rather use a rubber dome if the keyboard was built as well. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Fri, 08 May 2015, 07:39:10
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 08 May 2015, 07:58:06
99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

tufty laying down the law.   :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:16:09
99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
tufty laying down the law.   :(
No, stating an (unpopular) opinion, and those are like arseholes - everyone has one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:28:59
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
well, you certainly feel strongly.


BTW tons of people don't like artisans here, it's been said so many times it's not even unpopular. And you may not like it, but that's just how much it costs to manufacture keysets.

99% of the people on this board have different opinions ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:32:44
99% of the people on this board have different opinions ;)

Not me!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:32:45
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

(http://i.imgur.com/3vZ9T9z.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:35:07
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

You know, I can agree with all of these to some varying degree.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:35:23
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3vZ9T9z.png)

(http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/5450088+_d19340d87a93f2d7d1fb7bb9d2293e08.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:38:02
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3vZ9T9z.png)

Show Image
(http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/5450088+_d19340d87a93f2d7d1fb7bb9d2293e08.jpg)


(http://i.imgur.com/TWaAsAO.jpg)

More

(http://archive.4plebs.org/boards/tv/image/1401/55/1401550416509.jpg)



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:49:27
99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

tufty laying down the law.   :(

The hate is strong in that one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:54:24
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
(http://i.imgur.com/kTu1a5D.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:56:36
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

(http://i.imgur.com/IWFnNPg.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:58:48
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kTu1a5D.jpg)


(http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tv/image/1412/10/1412105762179.png)

More

(http://intfolder.com/_ph/2/2/296647629.jpg)


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 09:28:29

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kTu1a5D.jpg)


When I was a kid, mom used to buy these "Frog and Toad" children's books which was basically the spiel about friendship and keeping your word. I ****ing loved those books.

This looks exactly like Frog, the art style is the same and everything. Thanks for stabbing my childhood.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Fri, 08 May 2015, 10:04:56

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kTu1a5D.jpg)


When I was a kid, mom used to buy these "Frog and Toad" children's books which was basically the spiel about friendship and keeping your word. I ****ing loved those books.

This looks exactly like Frog, the art style is the same and everything. Thanks for stabbing my childhood.  :p

(http://i.imgur.com/D9CwhJR.jpg)

These ones? I had those.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 10:11:32

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/D9CwhJR.jpg)


These ones? I had those.

Yep. I'm 25 and I still love to pick up those books and read them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Fri, 08 May 2015, 10:35:21
Am I missing something? What is the deal with these suicidal frogs?!  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bucake on Fri, 08 May 2015, 11:05:20

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/D9CwhJR.jpg)


These ones? I had those.

Yep. I'm 25 and I still love to pick up those books and read them.

i remember seing an animated series or movie of frog and toad, good nostalgia
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 11:10:03
Am I missing something? What is the deal with these suicidal frogs?!  :))

They are a lot like 90s Saturday morning cartoons, or buckling springs. Lasting value and quality, hallmarks of an older time.  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 08 May 2015, 12:13:44
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

Cursing doesn't make it an unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 12:47:29
Am I missing something? What is the deal with these suicidal frogs?!  :))
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/550850543854166018/fQwnsm7O.jpeg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Fri, 08 May 2015, 12:53:35
And you may not like it, but that's just how much it costs to manufacture keysets.
The chairman of Signature Plastics, yesterday
(http://lineoftheweek.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/moneysex.jpg)

The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 08 May 2015, 12:56:43
good thing you're part of the superior 1%  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 08 May 2015, 13:02:18
And you may not like it, but that's just how much it costs to manufacture keysets.
The chairman of Signature Plastics, yesterday
Show Image
(http://lineoftheweek.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/moneysex.jpg)


I don't think you're very familiar with manufacturing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 13:09:40
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 08 May 2015, 13:09:55
And you may not like it, but that's just how much it costs to manufacture keysets.
The chairman of Signature Plastics, yesterday
Show Image
(http://lineoftheweek.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/moneysex.jpg)


I don't think you're very familiar with manufacturing.

You don't get it Hoff.  Murican products should cost the same as Chinese and 3rd or developing world products.  That's just Idon'tbuyintoglobaleconomics 101.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:04:58
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do.  The cost of producing a keyset is in the moulds, and they cost big money.  However, that cost is amortised over the number of keysets you make with those moulds.  So while, for example, the tooling for a DCS doubleshot ABS set costs a helluva lot upfront, but it's the same tooling for black, white, pink, or any other colour you want to specify.  Once you get to producing the type of quantities of product that mean you can invest in tooling, the amortised tooling cost is massively outweighed by the material and handling costs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:14:47

If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

Who took the jam out of your donut?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:19:26
oh oh.

(http://www.og-locs.com/3f35_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sorijealut on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:23:10
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.
How about instead of so many ****s we say ducks?

(https://www.googledrive.com/host/0B4iOzj12oakSUXlBVHdEQ1k2QmM)
They're cute and wonderfully yellow
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:26:29
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.
Good to know.

I can't believe you haven't realised that all the frog pictures were just a joke. I do not feel bad/suicidal/unhappy because of what you said. Your failure to realise this makes you seem like quite the ****ing idiot.

Also, you say **** quite a lot. Is your vocabulary so limited that you have to resort to using swear words twice in one sentence in order to get your point across?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:27:52
As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do.  The cost of producing a keyset is in the moulds, and they cost big money.  However, that cost is amortised over the number of keysets you make with those moulds.  So while, for example, the tooling for a DCS doubleshot ABS set costs a helluva lot upfront, but it's the same tooling for black, white, pink, or any other colour you want to specify.  Once you get to producing the type of quantities of product that mean you can invest in tooling, the amortised tooling cost is massively outweighed by the material and handling costs.

Molds, materials, operators, and everyone else needed to run the place.  Plus safety precautions and all the other overhead costs that don't directly contribute to material production.  Plus overruns, defective product, equipment breakdowns, setup/changeover waste, and everything else.

It's not just (molds / # of caps) + materials
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:30:06
(https://cmgpbppalmbeachhealthbeat.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/spilled-salt1.jpg)
It's palpable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:30:56
Who didn't pull out of tufty's *******? God damn so butt hurt.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 08 May 2015, 16:39:35
Let's get back on track here, guys.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eszett on Fri, 08 May 2015, 16:42:49
Am I missing something? What is the deal with these suicidal frogs?!  :))
Tufty insulted the whole forum as beeing full of "****ing idiots". The community reacted with those frog pictures, as symbolic message which can be translated with: Oh, you are so mean to us, I have to shoot myself because I'm so affected / depressed by this. Ironically of course.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 16:54:09
Let's get back on track here, guys.
He didn't put the caps on his piss bottles? Unbelievable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lookitdisnub on Fri, 08 May 2015, 16:59:57
That could just be water that's yellowed from the cigarette butts
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 17:08:10
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do. 

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/711/1380697092809.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 08 May 2015, 17:10:55
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do. 

Show Image
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/711/1380697092809.jpg)

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Terminator-Smile.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 17:19:35
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do. 

Show Image
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/711/1380697092809.jpg)

Show Image
(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Terminator-Smile.gif)


(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/gary-oldman-smiles.gif)

Fast facts ~ Leon: The Professional is one of my favorite movies. Gary Oldman and Natalie Portman are love in this movie.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:26:38
That could just be water that's yellowed from the cigarette butts
If there's one thing I know it's piss bottles. Those are definitely piss bottles not yellowed water.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:29:30
That could just be water that's yellowed from the cigarette butts
If there's one thing I know it's piss bottles. Those are definitely piss bottles not yellowed water.

Could be worse...

More
(http://i.imgur.com/MVcabNR.jpg)


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:45:02
Unpopular opinion - bottles of various bodily fluids don't belong on keyboard forums.

But then again, I'm new here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:48:05
Unpopular opinion - bottles of various bodily fluids don't belong on keyboard forums.

But then again, I'm new here.

You're right.

(https://38.media.tumblr.com/8c444bbb741f9616ef16ee70b59d1a0e/tumblr_inline_n2c199Qigy1s7gk8i.gif)


Unpopular keyboard opinions - I like the feeling of shiny ABS keycaps. I don't prefer it, but I like it.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sorijealut on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:56:57
Just came into the thread after dinner. What a mistake  :p

Unpopular opinion of the day - I may not like scooped F & J when I get my first GMK set.

My current keyboard doesn't have any nub or scoop O.O
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Fri, 08 May 2015, 19:08:35
Unpopular opinion - bottles of various bodily fluids don't belong on keyboard forums.

But then again, I'm new here.

You're right.

Show Image
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/8c444bbb741f9616ef16ee70b59d1a0e/tumblr_inline_n2c199Qigy1s7gk8i.gif)



Unpopular keyboard opinions - I like the feeling of shiny ABS keycaps. I don't prefer it, but I like it.

s-s-senpai
More
(http://i.imgur.com/eZWHPRF.gif)

Ever since I found an old NCR G80 at my school, I haven't been able to stop thinking about a GMK keyset with uniform shine. Would like to experiment with lacquer on a set.

Edit: For reference, here are some banners from Deskthority I've been obsessed with from when I used to hang over there:
More
(http://deskthority.net/resources/image/8998)

(http://deskthority.net/resources/image/3152)

(http://i.imgur.com/K3Vyd.jpg)

(http://deskthority.net/styles/deskthority_base/theme/images/dashboard2.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 08 May 2015, 19:08:57
Unpopular opinion - bottles of various bodily fluids don't belong on keyboard forums.

But then again, I'm new here.

You're right.

Show Image
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/8c444bbb741f9616ef16ee70b59d1a0e/tumblr_inline_n2c199Qigy1s7gk8i.gif)



Unpopular keyboard opinions - I like the feeling of shiny ABS keycaps. I don't prefer it, but I like it.

I have a Cherry doubleshot set that someone polished to a shine.  I absolutely love 'em.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 19:22:29
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

(http://media.tumblr.com/936b72dfe22c8aed40dad7a3d60ed6c4/tumblr_inline_mrteybMdEf1qz4rgp.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 21:24:40
 This thread has really gone too far.  What happened? 

Lock this thread and throw away the key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 21:41:01
s-s-senpai
More
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/eZWHPRF.gif)

Ever since I found an old NCR G80 at my school, I haven't been able to stop thinking about a GMK keyset with uniform shine. Would like to experiment with lacquer on a set.

Dood... a uniform set of shiny GMK would be amazing. It'd be pretty awesome if they had Cherry profile sets that had the texture of SA caps... I'd be all in on that. Lacquer would be interesting but might feel too sticky.


Unpopular keyboard opinions - I like the feeling of shiny ABS keycaps. I don't prefer it, but I like it.

I have a Cherry doubleshot set that someone polished to a shine.  I absolutely love 'em.

Ooooo. Must be nice~~~ Butter~

I regret not accepting a super shiny set of OG WoB Cherry caps that my local friend offered me back in 2012... *sigh*


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 09 May 2015, 07:41:25
8.25 pounds = 3.75 kilograms, is a good weight for a keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 09 May 2015, 08:47:06
I, too, am a chubby chaser when it comes to keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:28:54
Mine's over 10 pounds, so I think I count as having a fatty fetish.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:32:58
I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:34:57
I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4858539/filthy-frank-oooo-nobody-gives-a-****-o.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:42:31
8.25 pounds = 3.75 kilograms, is a good weight for a keyboard.


I love hefty boards too!!!


I, too, am a chubby chaser when it comes to keyboards.

muffin tops are cute


I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m04czgxLn21qzlvmi.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:59:06
This may be unpopular, but LCARS keyboards are horribly unergonomic.
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/a/af/Ezris_LCARS_keyboard.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060822185340&path-prefix=en)

I think they make them that way so you are forced to use voice commands, so the Starfleet librarian can shush you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 09 May 2015, 11:00:30
I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.

Good. Gtfo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Sat, 09 May 2015, 12:30:13
I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.

Good. Gtfo

You do understand that if he unsubscribed he wont see your reply. Making your post useless :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 09 May 2015, 12:34:08
Idgaf
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Sun, 10 May 2015, 03:06:46
Idgaf

No doubt in my mind.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sun, 10 May 2015, 03:54:33
Miami is a fantastic looking set.

That seems mildly unpopular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 10 May 2015, 07:54:20
Hhkb is worth it's price >.>













Jk. Even I don't believe that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sun, 10 May 2015, 08:11:40
Hhkb is worth it's price >.>













Jk. Even I don't believe that.
I believe...  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 10 May 2015, 11:10:00
Hhkb is worth it's price >.>













Jk. Even I don't believe that.
I believe...  :'(
youre still in the honeymoon stage. ENJOY IT.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: morpheus on Sun, 10 May 2015, 11:33:21
Let's get back on track here, guys.

This is dope setup.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xerxes on Sun, 10 May 2015, 12:30:47
60% keyboards aren't practical, even with the programmable layers. I liken it to people who build their linux distros "from the ground up". They're just senselessly creating a rabbit hole of unnecessary work.

That's so me.

Coincidentially I am getting a pok3r
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 10 May 2015, 13:15:37
I can't feel the difference between typing on keyboard in aluminium housing and typing on keyboard in plastic housing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Sun, 10 May 2015, 17:53:23
I'm thinking in implementing a key like this.
Tap = Apply shift to the next key pressed
Hold = Normal shift
Double tap fast = Toggle caps lock (yeah, capslock is nice to have)
thanks to the help of a member from AHK forum, i now have a script that does exactly what you describe

shift::
Input, key, L1, {LShift}{RShift}
IfInString, ErrorLevel, Shift
     {
     SetCapsLockState, % GetKeyState("CapsLock","T")?"Off":"On"
     KeyWait, Shift
     }
else
     SendInput +{%key%}
return
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rsac on Mon, 11 May 2015, 09:30:29
thanks to the help of a member from AHK forum, i now have a script that does exactly what you describe

shift::
Input, key, L1, {LShift}{RShift}
IfInString, ErrorLevel, Shift
     {
     SetCapsLockState, % GetKeyState("CapsLock","T")?"Off":"On"
     KeyWait, Shift
     }
else
     SendInput +{%key%}
return
Oh, thanks, that is cool. I'm not using windows, but I hope some other people find it useful. What about starting a topic with your script?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:08:20
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:17:38
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.

An unpopular opinion in retort: As a Linux user, the "Win" does not bother me at all :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:21:59
I still see infinity as being a great alternative to any "Win" key.  That gives an infinite variety of options for that key.  End the frustration.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:22:17
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.

An unpopular opinion in retort: As a Linux user, the "Win" does not bother me at all :P

DUUUDE, that ****s gotta go!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:23:53
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.

An unpopular opinion in retort: As a Linux user, the "Win" does not bother me at all :P

DUUUDE, that ****s gotta go!

Vortex Doubleshot PBT Blue White set. It matches my Poker Tex Case perfectly and it looks like my dream keyboard (well, until the GON comes in). I can live with the "WIN" key for that. It's hard in general to get a high quality PBT set with a the tux/penguin logo.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:30:19
I still see infinity as being a great alternative to any "Win" key.  That gives an infinite variety of options for that key.  End the frustration.

Noooo, we can't give infiniti (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=25608) that much power!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:30:35
Sci-Fi themed artisan caps are tacky. That's actually not that unpopular of an opinion but w/e.

Star Wars/Dr.Who/Star Trek-themed anything is consumeristic and trite. You're the kind of people I imagine browsing reddit.com/r/gaming and reddit.com/r/funny.

But, this is probably the most generous and supportive community I've ever seen. You guys are fantastic! :thumb:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:37:42
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.

An unpopular opinion in retort: As a Linux user, the "Win" does not bother me at all :P

DUUUDE, that ****s gotta go!

Vortex Doubleshot PBT Blue White set. It matches my Poker Tex Case perfectly and it looks like my dream keyboard (well, until the GON comes in). I can live with the "WIN" key for that. It's hard in general to get a high quality PBT set with a the tux/penguin logo.

Still not ok! get blank mods :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 11 May 2015, 15:00:57
Still not ok! get blank mods :)

They don't match the color :( Aesthetics over loyalty! How's that for unpopular opinion :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 11 May 2015, 15:13:30
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.
do you take issue with the spelling out of the word instead of using the logo, or do you simply want a more OS neutral legend? in any case, the best way to end the frustration is to cease using the key. i remapped my winkey to caps lock and haven't looked back since. and winkeyless layouts look much better anyway


They don't match the color :( Aesthetics over loyalty! How's that for unpopular opinion :))
aesthetics too strong  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eszett on Mon, 11 May 2015, 16:08:22
IMHO are blank mods perfectly tolerable, except for a bottom row with 7 or more mod keys (around space). 7 is too much. But for example a HHKB layout with blank mods is perfectly tolerable, because you mostly won't mi**** any key, even when pressing them blindly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Mon, 11 May 2015, 16:24:02
do you take issue with the spelling out of the word instead of using the logo, or do you simply want a more OS neutral legend? in any case, the best way to end the frustration is to cease using the key. i remapped my winkey to caps lock and haven't looked back since. and winkeyless layouts look much better anyway

Haha... well the Windows logo is equally bad, probably worse as it lacks the irony of having a key on your keyboard labeled "win". (This gives me an idea for a delightfully ironic "e-sport": the player who hits the "win" key fastest after the match starts, wins.)

On a non-blank keyset, I'm perfectly okay with "Meta", "Command" or "Super". :) I consider Linux penguin keys to be in bad taste, because they ape Windows keyboards. (Same goes for the recessed circular emblem shape on those keys.)

The aesthetical point of this whole thing is the history you reach back to. With "Command", you reach back to the Macintosh, and the original vision of Steve Jobs about combining computers and proper typography. With "Meta", you reach back to the world of UNIX, and with "Super", you reach back to the venerable Symbolics keyboards.

An OS logo, or "Win" reaches back to Windows-bloody-ninety-five. Not the most glorious of pasts to remember, I have to say.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 11 May 2015, 17:26:46

The aesthetical point of this whole thing is


"Those" are the perfect keys to replace with whatever decorative or arty key caps strike your fancy.

Too bad that they occur in odd shapes, sizes, and profiles.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:32:44
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:37:04
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
It is more comfortable, especially on RF boards. If your board has a high tilt, or you sit low, it digs into your thumb
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:42:36
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
It is more comfortable, especially on RF boards. If your board has a high tilt, or you sit low, it digs into your thumb

been using a rf this whole time and never had a problem

you guys must have some stiff thumbs
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:47:15
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
literally infinitely more comfortable
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:50:03
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
I just flipped it for you babe.  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 12 May 2015, 02:42:50
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm

^

ol' charmin soft thumbs can't handle a spacebar
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Tue, 12 May 2015, 03:31:02
Still not ok! get blank mods :)

They don't match the color :( Aesthetics over loyalty! How's that for unpopular opinion :))

I just died a little.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 12 May 2015, 08:27:46
Still not ok! get blank mods :)

They don't match the color :( Aesthetics over loyalty! How's that for unpopular opinion :))

I just died a little.

Hey, they match Arch Linux colors at least. When Arch decides to make doubleshot PBT mods with the logo, I'll be the first to buy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Tue, 12 May 2015, 09:40:33
There might not be a "best" gaming switch, but some are certainly worse than others. MX blue/green and others in the clicky line are horrible for double-tapping compared to the rest of the cherry line (especially compared to the liner switches). Old buckling spring with 2KRO is not ok for a lot of modern games.

So when some asks "what's the best gaming switch" the response of "there's not one" or "it's all a matter of preference," is not helpful. "Red, black, brown, or clear," would be a lot more useful to most gamers. For people that play FPS a liner switch probably IS an appropriate answer to "what's the best gaming switch" simply because of the double-tapping required.   
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Tue, 12 May 2015, 13:17:31
I thought this was a unpopular opinion thread? People commonly suggest linear switches for gaming.

I use blues for games and I haven't ran into issues. Probably because I don't double tap that much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 12 May 2015, 16:19:33
There might not be a "best" gaming switch, but some are certainly worse than others. MX blue/green and others in the clicky line are horrible for double-tapping compared to the rest of the cherry line (especially compared to the liner switches). Old buckling spring with 2KRO is not ok for a lot of modern games.

So when some asks "what's the best gaming switch" the response of "there's not one" or "it's all a matter of preference," is not helpful. "Red, black, brown, or clear," would be a lot more useful to most gamers. For people that play FPS a liner switch probably IS an appropriate answer to "what's the best gaming switch" simply because of the double-tapping required.
I can't say that I've run into problems with hysterisis playing FPSs. Sure, you're tapping WASD pretty quickly, but not really fast enough that I'd call it double-tapping.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Huxley2500 on Tue, 12 May 2015, 16:38:13
 Cherry MX Blue is BEST for gaming!



  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 12 May 2015, 16:57:48
Topre feels closer to rubber dome than mechanical
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 12 May 2015, 18:34:13
Topre feels closer to rubber dome than mechanical

It is rubber dome, just super refined and nice feeling rubber domes with tighter tolerances than your membrane RD and other crappy RD boards.

Of course, RealForce, Leopold, and Cooler Master iterations of Topre all feel like crap to me compared to the HHKB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lookitdisnub on Tue, 12 May 2015, 18:43:21
Topre feels closer to rubber dome than mechanical

Define how "mechanical" feels
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 12 May 2015, 19:24:20
IBM Model M's (except for M13s and Industrials) aren't beige. They're off-white, eggshell or putty (your choice). The "beige" misnomer has continued because it was never sufficiently challenged.

Since I backed down from that position here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71777.msg1742537#msg1742537), I thought I might as well post it in this topic where everyone's being so contrary. It also seemed like a good idea to confirm that I'm still looking around for a life to get.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 12 May 2015, 19:30:35
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
It is more comfortable, especially on RF boards. If your board has a high tilt, or you sit low, it digs into your thumb

I happened to read this post just as I sit in front of my high tilt keyboard, with my thumb caressing the delightfully distinct edge of my normally oriented spacebar :)

I did try flipping it before to see what the fuss was about. It felt different, but not any better. If anything, I use the edge of the spacebar to help my hands find the correct distance to the home row keys, something that doesn't work with a flipped spacebar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 12 May 2015, 21:51:06
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
It is more comfortable, especially on RF boards. If your board has a high tilt, or you sit low, it digs into your thumb

I happened to read this post just as I sit in front of my high tilt keyboard, with my thumb caressing the delightfully distinct edge of my normally oriented spacebar :)

I did try flipping it before to see what the fuss was about. It felt different, but not any better. If anything, I use the edge of the spacebar to help my hands find the correct distance to the home row keys, something that doesn't work with a flipped spacebar.

Aesthetics > comfort. And good point on the distance finding!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 12 May 2015, 21:56:27
The first time I saw a flipped spacebar, I thought the keyboard was broken actually.  It looks wrong to me, but I suppose some people prefer it that way.  I'd rather keep it normal myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Tue, 12 May 2015, 23:26:44
I agree it looks weird but is damn comforable imo.  Some keyboards space bars dig into my thumbs and it is actually quite painful.  Luckily I don't have this issue with IBM space bars.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 13 May 2015, 02:18:31
Sci-Fi themed artisan caps are tacky. That's actually not that unpopular of an opinion but w/e.

Star Wars/Dr.Who/Star Trek-themed anything is consumeristic and trite. You're the kind of people I imagine browsing reddit.com/r/gaming and reddit.com/r/funny.

But, this is probably the most generous and supportive community I've ever seen. You guys are fantastic! :thumb:



Your second point makes absolutely no sense. Wtf does /r/funny/gaming have to do with Star Wars/Star Trek and even ****ty dr. Who?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 13 May 2015, 02:26:56
****ty dr. Who?
God bless you!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 13 May 2015, 02:28:50
****ty dr. Who?
God bless you!!!
Not sure if agreeing with me or what but if you are

<3

Doctor who most boring show ever. And "whovians" or whatever the hell they call themselves are cringeworthy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Wed, 13 May 2015, 02:39:10
Sci-Fi themed artisan caps are tacky. That's actually not that unpopular of an opinion but w/e.

Star Wars/Dr.Who/Star Trek-themed anything is consumeristic and trite. You're the kind of people I imagine browsing reddit.com/r/gaming and reddit.com/r/funny.

But, this is probably the most generous and supportive community I've ever seen. You guys are fantastic! :thumb:



Your second point makes absolutely no sense. Wtf does /r/funny/gaming have to do with Star Wars/Star Trek and even ****ty dr. Who?

Alright, maybe it was a non-sequitir.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 13 May 2015, 03:05:33
Also you'll see there is a brand loyalty here. Can't get more consumeristic(??) than that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bueller on Wed, 13 May 2015, 03:08:01
40% boards are dumb. Sorry jd :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fullcream on Wed, 13 May 2015, 03:14:29
MX Blue is a disgusting switch. Typing on or hearing these switches is nauseating.
What is with the force curve in these switches. It's not even a curve, its a spike.
Feel all 50cN of required actuation in the first 2mm and then snap and your finger unintentionally slams the switch down to bottom out.
How is that motion even remotely satisfying.
It's like your pushing the stem past a distinct obstruction rather than an actual tactile curve with an audible click around the peak of the required force.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Wed, 13 May 2015, 06:26:14
Topre feels closer to rubber dome than mechanical

Define how "mechanical" feels

Probably not an unpopular opinion.

But I think "mechanical" keyboards denotes a keyboard of superior quality and feeling. The word itself strictly doesn't mean much, technical anything that works is mechanical, but the community added their own meaning and I think that is the important part. So while tropes do have mechanisms similar to rubber domes, realize that the word "mechanical" is arbitrary and making distinctions is a fruitless attempt. Whats important to focus on is the feeling of the keyboard.

To answer your question, I think "mechanical" means nice feeling switches and the OP means that tropes feels similar to rubber dome to him/her.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 13 May 2015, 07:26:13
But I think "mechanical" keyboards denotes a keyboard of superior quality and feeling.
I think "mechanical" means nice feeling switches
*facepalm*

That's beyond ridiculous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Wed, 13 May 2015, 07:28:52
But I think "mechanical" keyboards denotes a keyboard of superior quality and feeling.
I think "mechanical" means nice feeling switches
*facepalm*

That's beyond ridiculous.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:19:09
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:21:05
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:35:41
To answer your question, I think "mechanical" means nice feeling switches [...]

Boobs aren't mechanical, unfortunately.  :p Or abs, I suppose, for the ladies.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:51:43
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:57:40
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )

And all this time I thought it was pronounced Toe-Pray, like a bad French student.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 09:00:40
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )

And all this time I thought it was pronounced Toe-Pray, like a bad French student.

It is pronounced like that though.  :P  Although some will tell you differently - we've had multiple threads on the topic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Wed, 13 May 2015, 09:20:19
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )

And all this time I thought it was pronounced Toe-Pray, like a bad French student.

It is pronounced like that though.  :P  Although some will tell you differently - we've had multiple threads on the topic.

I thought it was pronounced as "Toe-preh"? As in "Tokyo Press".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 09:23:50
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )

And all this time I thought it was pronounced Toe-Pray, like a bad French student.

It is pronounced like that though.  :P  Although some will tell you differently - we've had multiple threads on the topic.

I thought it was pronounced as "Toe-preh"? As in "Tokyo Press".

IMO, as long as you say either of those and not "Topper" you're good.  ;D  I'm looking at you, Bro and Punks (IIRC)...   >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Wed, 13 May 2015, 09:43:25
Feel all 50cN of required actuation in the first 2mm and then snap and your finger unintentionally slams the switch down to bottom out.
How is that motion even remotely satisfying.

I bet you have never typed on an electric typewriter. I remember typing on this East German beast as a kid, it was loud as ****, and when you pressed a key, it was ridiculously heavy, but once actuated, it almost literally SHOT away from your finger, like negative force after actuation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 13 May 2015, 10:54:23
I don't like the feel of the IBM Model M. I think it feels clacky but not as nice as true clicky switches like MX Green or SMK Blues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 10:58:06
'True' clicky?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:03:40

MX Blue is a disgusting switch. Typing on or hearing these switches is nauseating.
What is with the force curve in these switches. It's not even a curve, its a spike.
Feel all 50cN of required actuation in the first 2mm and then snap and your finger unintentionally slams the switch down to bottom out.
How is that motion even remotely satisfying.
It's like your pushing the stem past a distinct obstruction rather than an actual tactile curve with an audible click around the peak of the required force.

Not to mention the shrill and obnoxious click noise.  Blues are the worst.  Vintage/broken in Blues are actually nice though.

I thought it was pronounced as "Toe-preh"? As in "Tokyo Press".

IMO, as long as you say either of those and not "Topper" you're good.  ;D  I'm looking at you, Bro and Punks (IIRC)...   >:D

It's Toe-Pruh bruh.


I don't like the feel of the IBM Model M. I think it feels clacky but not as nice as true clicky switches like MX Green or SMK Blues.

Well, the Model M is basically IBM's Cherry MY.  Model F for BS or go home.

MX Greens are horrible though. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:04:32
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:04:51
'True' clicky?

I meant "true" as in each switch being independent of each other. Model M's have springs but they are not individual switches due to the underlying membrane. I don't mean to say that the IBM isn't clicky or anything.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:10:39
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:15:04
'True' clicky?

I meant "true" as in each switch being independent of each other. Model M's have springs but they are not individual switches due to the underlying membrane. I don't mean to say that the IBM isn't clicky or anything.

That's not inherent to the mechanism, though.  You could make a buckling spring board (M or F) with discrete switches, it just doesn't make sense. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:17:45
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.

Then why attack me? You'd starve  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:21:54

MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.

Then why attack me? You'd starve  :D

Nah, everyone here is virgins.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:24:55
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.

Then why attack me? You'd starve  :D

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:59:07
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.

Then why attack me? You'd starve  :D

Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif)


You're right, I guess I would cry.  ;)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:59:54

Nah, everyone here is virgins.

I suppose I don't exist here then :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 13 May 2015, 12:11:34
****ty dr. Who?
God bless you!!!
Not sure if agreeing with me or what but if you are

<3

Doctor who most boring show ever. And "whovians" or whatever the hell they call themselves are cringeworthy.
fully agree!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 13 May 2015, 13:11:50
I have watched Dr Who off and on since the 1970s.

The new series was great when it hit its stride, and, even though Tom Baker was "my Doctor" I have to say that David Tennant was the best Doctor ever, hands-down.

However, Matt Smith was one of the very worst, and this latest season is genuinely disgusting. I watched maybe half a dozen episodes with my teenage kids, and even they couldn't stand to watch it any more.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gaspar on Wed, 13 May 2015, 22:08:38
I have watched Dr Who off and on since the 1970s.

The new series was great when it hit its stride, and, even though Tom Baker was "my Doctor" I have to say that David Tennant was the best Doctor ever, hands-down.

However, Matt Smith was one of the very worst, and this latest season is genuinely disgusting. I watched maybe half a dozen episodes with my teenage kids, and even they couldn't stand to watch it any more.

I'm at season 6 atm and I agree, Matt Smith is the worst Doctor  :-[ But Karen Gillian is sooo cute...

Is Matt Smith still the actual Doctor?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Wed, 13 May 2015, 23:09:56
I have watched Dr Who off and on since the 1970s.

The new series was great when it hit its stride, and, even though Tom Baker was "my Doctor" I have to say that David Tennant was the best Doctor ever, hands-down.

However, Matt Smith was one of the very worst, and this latest season is genuinely disgusting. I watched maybe half a dozen episodes with my teenage kids, and even they couldn't stand to watch it any more.

I'm at season 6 atm and I agree, Matt Smith is the worst Doctor  :-[ But Karen Gillian is sooo cute...

Is Matt Smith still the actual Doctor?
Peter Capladi is the current Doctor, and I quite enjoy him as the Doctor, though I haven't seen all of the latest season yet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Wed, 13 May 2015, 23:20:29
Without singling out any specific model, I think 'custom keyboards' that sandwich flat sheets of acrylic look incredibly cheap. In most of them, you can even see the lasercutter's step resolution along the curves/beveled edges. Exposed bolts/screws, and some with very clumsy looking spacers in the form of stock-aluminum tubing. To top it off, they often come with fixed feet that resemble metal drain plugs.  :p
All in all, they look like a first-year product design student's project. Nothing inherently bad with that, but aesthetically not very refined, and they certainly shouldn't be commanding such high prices with their lack of design refinement.
Don't even get me started on the ergodox varieties of sandwiching acrylic sheets!  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 14 May 2015, 00:15:23
Without singling out any specific model, I think 'custom keyboards' that sandwich flat sheets of acrylic look incredibly cheap. In most of them, you can even see the lasercutter's step resolution along the curves/beveled edges. Exposed bolts/screws, and some with very clumsy looking spacers in the form of stock-aluminum tubing. To top it off, they often come with fixed feet that resemble metal drain plugs.  :p
All in all, they look like a first-year product design student's project. Nothing inherently bad with that, but aesthetically not very refined, and they certainly shouldn't be commanding such high prices with their lack of design refinement.
Don't even get me started on the ergodox varieties of sandwiching acrylic sheets!  :-*

completely agree
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 14 May 2015, 03:15:30
Without singling out any specific model, I think 'custom keyboards' that sandwich flat sheets of acrylic look incredibly cheap. In most of them, you can even see the lasercutter's step resolution along the curves/beveled edges. Exposed bolts/screws, and some with very clumsy looking spacers in the form of stock-aluminum tubing. To top it off, they often come with fixed feet that resemble metal drain plugs.  :p
All in all, they look like a first-year product design student's project. Nothing inherently bad with that, but aesthetically not very refined, and they certainly shouldn't be commanding such high prices with their lack of design refinement.
Don't even get me started on the ergodox varieties of sandwiching acrylic sheets!  :-*
Acrylic anything is ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minh278 on Thu, 14 May 2015, 03:20:48
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Thu, 14 May 2015, 03:50:38
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.

Full size are battleships.

I'm upset that ~60%s don't have F-keys, and I'm upset that I don't see many people upset about it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: absyrd on Thu, 14 May 2015, 03:51:47
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.

Full size are battleships.

I'm upset that ~60%s don't have F-keys, and I'm upset that I don't see many people upset about it.

Go 75%. Or use Fn layers like the rest of us. No need to be upset.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 14 May 2015, 04:13:23
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.
Really? I like 60%s, because you have one coherent field of keys without weird gaps in between.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minh278 on Thu, 14 May 2015, 04:34:13
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.
Really? I like 60%s, because you have one coherent field of keys without weird gaps in between.

For some reason i have the longing for keys i never use when i view a 60%. I must have hoarding genes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 14 May 2015, 09:04:29
I've watched Dr Who since... the 80s? And most of the old black and white series.

The 'new', recently revived series just sucks complete ass. It's like they've kept everything that was bad and boring out of the old series (campy special effects, which they had an excuse for in the 70s), and tossed out all the stuff that was good (seems every bloody episode is on Earth, or revolves around humans).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Thu, 14 May 2015, 09:07:02
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.
Really? I like 60%s, because you have one coherent field of keys without weird gaps in between.

I love the IBM PC/XT layout for this very reason - it has a numpad, and yet keeps the whole keyboard in one piece. I've been thinking of doing a brand new keyboard based on this principle, maybe a sculpted SA alpha cluster, and an unsculpted numpad to make it different.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 14 May 2015, 09:08:00
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 14 May 2015, 11:33:57

Acrylic anything is ugly.


Yep
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 14 May 2015, 12:26:57
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 14 May 2015, 12:36:10
Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ATXTider on Thu, 14 May 2015, 13:24:16
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

All Dr. Who is terrible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 14 May 2015, 14:09:40
I've watched Dr Who since... the 80s? And most of the old black and white series.

The 'new', recently revived series just sucks complete ass. It's like they've kept everything that was bad and boring out of the old series (campy special effects, which they had an excuse for in the 70s), and tossed out all the stuff that was good (seems every bloody episode is on Earth, or revolves around humans).
Season 1 of the the revived series is a lot more earthy than the later seasons, and the effects get a lot better, in my opinion.

But that's just if you stopped on the early seasons..

For an Unpopular Keyboard opinion thread, this has a lot of Doctor who. :P

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 14 May 2015, 14:15:07
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 14 May 2015, 15:12:56
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 14 May 2015, 15:14:33
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Hoffs Pac 62 looks pretty damn nice. I'd count that as a good one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 14 May 2015, 15:19:22

I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Hoffs Pac 62 looks pretty damn nice. I'd count that as a good one.
Doesn't it use cmyw?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 14 May 2015, 15:24:17

I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Hoffs Pac 62 looks pretty damn nice. I'd count that as a good one.
Doesn't it use cmyw?
I'd have to look again, though you're probably right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 14 May 2015, 18:06:53

I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Hoffs Pac 62 looks pretty damn nice. I'd count that as a good one.
Doesn't it use cmyw?
I'd have to look again, though you're probably right.
It does. People only use the CMYK mod kit w/ dolch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 14 May 2015, 18:16:22
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.

I actually think RGB works with everything, and i like the shades of RGB  ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 14 May 2015, 18:34:03
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.

I actually think RGB works with everything, and i like the shades of RGB  ^-^
Rgb doesn't go with WoB IMO
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 14 May 2015, 19:54:59

For an Unpopular Keyboard opinion thread, this has a lot of Doctor who.


A keyboard enthusiast and Dr Who fan could have a field day identifying all the keyboards that have appeared (mostly, but not all, in the Tardis) since 1963.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 14 May 2015, 20:04:11
I think normal model m looks better than industrial model m.  I don't like model m though.
I don't like dolch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Thu, 14 May 2015, 21:27:00
I don't like dolch
Hell yes! The Dolch gray looks dull and boring.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Thu, 14 May 2015, 22:07:38
I don't like dolch

with or without color pack? cause i don't like it stock but with color pack it blows me away.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Fri, 15 May 2015, 00:00:18
The "budget" Type Heaven is a really nice keyboard. It's solidly constructed and the Topre switches feel great. It makes the Cherry brown-based board I had before feel like garbage.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 15 May 2015, 00:06:44
I don't like dolch

with or without color pack? cause i don't like it stock but with color pack it blows me away.

Both.  imo, dolch has a too light color for the alpha keys, it may looks good with a little bit lighter modifiers.  Without color pack it looks too boring and dark in color.  The color pack is too bright for dolch, I think it would looks good with a simple BoW set.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Fri, 15 May 2015, 12:12:40
Unpopular opinion: Ergoclears feel weird and mushy and gross. I'm not sure if it's the spring weight or the lube, but probably the lube since I tried two different spring weights and thought both were... Mushy. I like stock clears so much better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: absyrd on Fri, 15 May 2015, 13:59:08
Translucent artisan keycaps are poo. You cannot see the detail IRL from a seated position using your keyboard. Only works when you hold it up just right to the light or are using a macro setting on the camera. Or maybe I'm just blind. And stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Fri, 15 May 2015, 14:02:39
Translucent artisan keycaps are poo. You cannot see the detail IRL from a seated position using your keyboard. Only works when you hold it up just right to the light or are using a macro setting on the camera. Or maybe I'm just blind. And stupid.

They work best on a board with backlighting. Otherwise yeah you need to hold them to light or set up for a photo. XD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Fri, 15 May 2015, 15:07:17
Unpopular opinion: Ergoclears feel weird and mushy and gross. I'm not sure if it's the spring weight or the lube, but probably the lube since I tried two different spring weights and thought both were... Mushy. I like stock clears so much better.

Really? I'm worried now, because I was planning to mod my FC6660M to ergo clears with 62g. Personally I felt that stock clears didn't have any 'definition', they were just kind of - mushy.
Is this a popular-unpopular opinion, or just an unpopular opinion?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 15 May 2015, 15:08:55
Unpopular opinion: Ergoclears feel weird and mushy and gross. I'm not sure if it's the spring weight or the lube, but probably the lube since I tried two different spring weights and thought both were... Mushy. I like stock clears so much better.

Really? I'm worried now, because I was planning to mod my FC6660M to ergo clears with 62g. Personally I felt that stock clears didn't have any 'definition', they were just kind of - mushy.
Is this a popular-unpopular opinion, or just an unpopular opinion?

I've heard one other person dislike ergo clears as being too light, but never mushy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Fri, 15 May 2015, 15:43:05
Light I can definitely handle, on the other hand, mechanicals are too expensive for mushiness
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 15 May 2015, 16:05:04
mechanicals are too expensive for mushiness

Then how do you explain Topre?

*assumes fighting stance*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: absyrd on Fri, 15 May 2015, 16:44:12
It isn't cool or funny to post box pics. Just stop.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 15 May 2015, 16:50:59
It isn't cool or funny to post box pics. Just stop.
I agree, its just a tease :C
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 15 May 2015, 16:52:49
mechanicals are too expensive for mushiness

Then how do you explain Topre?

*assumes fighting stance*
My 55g HHKB is anything but mushy! I will fight anyone who says otherwise  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 15 May 2015, 17:44:14
Light I can definitely handle, on the other hand, mechanicals are too expensive for mushiness

I have only tried ergo clears on a test board on a tour, but, as of now, I believe that the top-shelf Cherry experience would be either lubed ergo clears, or "jailhouse" greens, with thin soft O-rings in either case.

But I am not a Cherry guy anyway, so what do I know?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 15 May 2015, 22:14:07
i think the hhkb hg with the brown painted(lacquer?) keycaps look extremely ugly.

all the korean keyboards look the same to me, except few.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Sat, 16 May 2015, 10:45:59
you need to set light to them. XD
FTFY.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fullcream on Sat, 16 May 2015, 16:35:58
Unpopular opinion: Ergoclears feel weird and mushy and gross. I'm not sure if it's the spring weight or the lube, but probably the lube since I tried two different spring weights and thought both were... Mushy. I like stock clears so much better.

Really? I'm worried now, because I was planning to mod my FC6660M to ergo clears with 62g. Personally I felt that stock clears didn't have any 'definition', they were just kind of - mushy.
Is this a popular-unpopular opinion, or just an unpopular opinion?

No need to worry, go ahead with the mod and it will bring you much pleasure.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 16 May 2015, 16:57:27
Cherry sucks. Cherry on topre is a keyboard sin.

Burn the heathens.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: IonutZ on Sat, 16 May 2015, 16:59:59
My keyboard is better than your keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 16 May 2015, 18:19:41
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 16 May 2015, 18:45:51
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 16 May 2015, 18:51:49
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 16 May 2015, 19:40:08
Kailhs are nicer than Cherry. There, I said it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 16 May 2015, 19:49:33
Kailhs are nicer than Cherry. There, I said it.

Hrrmm?

first time hearing this..

what about them specifically
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sat, 16 May 2015, 21:29:41
Kailhs are nicer than Cherry. There, I said it.

Hrrmm?

first time hearing this..

what about them specifically

They make you feel all gangster and ****.  Like you are from a Asian hood.  They go well with a hoodie and torn jeans.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 16 May 2015, 22:07:29
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is.  And the Ergodox sucks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 16 May 2015, 22:24:03
Ergodox sux, HHKB is the king, baby..  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Sat, 16 May 2015, 23:28:10
I don't see the appeal of HHKB or Torpes with its demanding price.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 16 May 2015, 23:33:25
I don't see the appeal of HHKB or Torpes with its demanding price.
You know what else can be demanding? Your mom, but you still love her, don't you?  :))



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Sat, 16 May 2015, 23:48:58
I don't see the appeal of HHKB or Torpes with its demanding price.
You know what else can be demanding? Your mom, but you still love her, don't you?  :))
I guess what you pay is what you get.

I am making a custom keyboard so I put on a layout that is similar to HHKB and see what happens.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 18 May 2015, 19:20:45
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is.  And the Ergodox sucks.
dat thumb cluster
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 18 May 2015, 22:24:51
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is. And the Ergodox sucks.

Obvious troll
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 18 May 2015, 23:06:38
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is. And the Ergodox sucks.

Obvious troll

Nope.  Trolling would be saying that the Model M is the best keyboard known to man.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 18 May 2015, 23:21:21
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is. And the Ergodox sucks.

Obvious troll

Nope.  Trolling would be saying that the Model M is the best keyboard known to man.


That would be a Model F Maltron.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Wed, 20 May 2015, 22:44:53
Kailhs are nicer than Cherry. There, I said it.

Hrrmm?

first time hearing this..

what about them specifically

My friend likes Kailh better than Cherry as well. He likes the clicky Kailh (Razer Green) better than Blues b/c of the weight, and the softer click.

I tried his Blackwidow Chroma, was pleasantly surprised, and prefer it to stock MX Blue myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KineticIsEpic on Thu, 21 May 2015, 14:49:37
I actually like the Acer switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:03:39
I actually like the Acer switch.
/thread
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:10:30
I don't know about GH, I haven't seen it much around here, but r/mk sure seems to love it.
Deep Space is the ****test keyset I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:16:40
Deep SpaceHandarbeit is the ****test keyset I've ever seen.

FTFY.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:28:56
Deep SpaceHandarbeit is the ****test keyset I've ever seen.

FTFY.

Well, at least Handarbeit isn't trying to look good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 21 May 2015, 16:36:54
Miami is a gross colorway, and I will never understand the apparent obsession with it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 21 May 2015, 16:37:44
Miami is a gross colorway, and I will never understand the apparent obsession with it.
Let me join you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 21 May 2015, 16:40:34
Miami is a gross colorway, and I will never understand the apparent obsession with it.
You need to play more Miami Hotline. You can feel 10x more immersed in it....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trees on Thu, 21 May 2015, 16:45:10
I prefer my MX blacks to my Topre for typing.

And my Topre to my Blacks for gaming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rena on Fri, 22 May 2015, 23:04:19
Dunno if this is unpopular but I really don't like MX blues. People commonly praise these switches but I don't get the appeal, there's just nothing it does well. The click, tactile feel, etc, are all done better by other switches like alps or buckling spring. Honestly the only cherry mx switch i've cared for lately are clears
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 22 May 2015, 23:06:19
Deep SpaceHandarbeit is the ****test keyset I've ever seen.

FTFY.

all the colorful **** is ugly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 23 May 2015, 02:50:30
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

I was wary at first, but it's quite nice. It doesn't feel like as much of a change compared to DSA
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 23 May 2015, 04:44:26
Dunno if this is unpopular but I really don't like MX blues. People commonly praise these switches but I don't get the appeal, there's just nothing it does well. The click, tactile feel, etc, are all done better by other switches like alps or buckling spring. Honestly the only cherry mx switch i've cared for lately are clears

This seems to be a pretty common opinion on GH.

It's probably an unpopular opinion on reddit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Sat, 23 May 2015, 05:21:01
i like mx blues and greens, and i kinda dont like BS :( the ping plong noise is abnoxious, althought i like the tactile feel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Magna224 on Sat, 23 May 2015, 07:34:59
Dunno if this is unpopular but I really don't like MX blues. People commonly praise these switches but I don't get the appeal, there's just nothing it does well. The click, tactile feel, etc, are all done better by other switches like alps or buckling spring. Honestly the only cherry mx switch i've cared for lately are clears


I feel the exact same way. =D I even mentioned the MX blue thing before here. Its my least favorite clicky switch ( I'd even take a simplified ALPS over it which is saying something!) but strangely extremely popular especially in the gaming crowd. I guess its just availability?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 23 May 2015, 08:30:36
A lot of people don't like blues.

It's just widely "praised" because it's one of the 3 "basic" switches and lots of people get them instead of linear reds or non-clicky browns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 May 2015, 10:45:39
Yeah most people will either love Blues or hate them. But that's why there are so many different kinds of switches out there. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Sat, 23 May 2015, 11:08:22
Having tried Greens I can't go back to Blues. I do sometimes the miss of "flying" across blues though. Greens are definitely more "rhythmic" while blues felt like I could just skim across the keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 23 May 2015, 11:17:38
Having tried Greens I can't go back to Blues. I do sometimes the miss of "flying" across blues though. Greens are definitely more "rhythmic" while blues felt like I could just skim across the keys.

I really like greens as well. But I have just bought the Keycool RGB with Kailh blues and I don't hate them. But I do think Greens are a lot better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 May 2015, 12:32:54
Greens are the best mx switch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 May 2015, 12:56:38
Having tried Greens I can't go back to Blues. I do sometimes the miss of "flying" across blues though. Greens are definitely more "rhythmic" while blues felt like I could just skim across the keys.

I really like greens as well. But I have just bought the Keycool RGB with Kailh blues and I don't hate them. But I do think Greens are a lot better.

I bought the same board. I like it better than my Cherry Blues. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 23 May 2015, 12:58:58

Greens are the best mx switch
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:02:52
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

I've got a bag of new Whites if you want them :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:03:18

I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

I've got a bag of new Whites if you want them :P
Maybe, how many/what are you looking to get for them?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:06:13

Greens are the best mx switch
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

You might like "vintage" Blues then.  They have a softer and more consistent click.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:08:42


Greens are the best mx switch
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

You might like "vintage" Blues then.  They have a softer and more consistent click.
I am using vintage blues with 62g springs in my main board right now, I do like the softer click, but I haven't compared them to whites yet. If they end up being pretty much the exact same softness, I will still use them as I like the white color more than the blue color.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rena on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:29:25
Are greens much better than blues? I'd also like to know how the greens compare to tactile greys, besides the click of course
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:54:08
Are greens much better than blues? I'd also like to know how the greens compare to tactile greys, besides the click of course

Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Sat, 23 May 2015, 14:56:32
Are greens much better than blues? I'd also like to know how the greens compare to tactile greys, besides the click of course

Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.

That is a very good point, but there may be drawbacks to using them as well.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Sat, 23 May 2015, 15:04:53
Not a fan of MX Blues either. Once you wear headphones, all the magic disappears. :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Sat, 23 May 2015, 15:46:38
Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.

I'll have to respectfully disagree here, the heavier spring actually results in a deeper and less resounding click. It's a lot less shrill and less annoying, to my ears anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 May 2015, 16:38:21
Are greens much better than blues? I'd also like to know how the greens compare to tactile greys, besides the click of course

Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.

How dare you

Greens are the best mx switch
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

Hated whites. Felt like typing on eggshells. Green and cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 May 2015, 16:59:19
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 23 May 2015, 17:01:37
I still haven't found a single person that shares my opinion on this one.. Lube on MX blues feels great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Sat, 23 May 2015, 17:04:10
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)

Ha!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sat, 23 May 2015, 17:59:31
Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.

I'll have to respectfully disagree here, the heavier spring actually results in a deeper and less resounding click. It's a lot less shrill and less annoying, to my ears anyway.

this

i like the highpitched click of blues, so greens are both way too heavy and crappy sounding to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eziak on Sat, 23 May 2015, 21:41:03
DSA is the worst profile, none of the popular DSA sets are worth what they cost.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 May 2015, 22:29:34
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)

blue stem black spring
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Sat, 23 May 2015, 22:59:24
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)

blue stem black spring

thought these were called ghetto greens?

I like the "bruise" moniker better though - very clever!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 24 May 2015, 02:30:56

I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

I've got a bag of new Whites if you want them :P
Maybe, how many/what are you looking to get for them?

I think I have 110 but I would have to double check. I probably want about $50 shipped to the US because I had to pay $30 shipping, but I know you can get them for just over $50 from MK.com.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 24 May 2015, 02:40:51
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)

blue stem black spring

thought these were called ghetto greens?

I like the "bruise" moniker better though - very clever!
Yeah it sounds cooler. And I'm sure I stole it from somebody else because I'm not that clever :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cinnamoncider on Sun, 24 May 2015, 03:09:29
A lot of people don't like blues.
I also don't like MX Blues. If I want a clicky tactile keyboard; I would prefer a Buckling spring more than anything else. Blues clicky sound feels so artificial and the switch design is really intended to give a "click" sound. Cherry MX switches natural territory are linear switches IMO.

Clicky tactile -> Buckling spring
Non-clicky tactile -> Topre
Linear -> Cherry MX
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 24 May 2015, 03:37:10
Linear? Just get a ****ty rubberdome. No difference at all. Just a waste of money.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sun, 24 May 2015, 03:40:43
75% layout is just silly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 24 May 2015, 04:00:34
Linear? Just get a ****ty rubberdome. No difference at all. Just a waste of money.

Linear are ****ing awful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 24 May 2015, 09:21:49
Linear? Just get a ****ty rubberdome. No difference at all. Just a waste of money.

Topre are far closer to rubber domes (since they are rubber domes), and you could also make the same comment about MX Brown and Clear (especially ergo clear) as they have a more similar tactility to RD than linears.

Linears have little in common with rubber dome as the travel has no bump or tactility of any kind.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Sun, 24 May 2015, 17:16:33
Chiclet switches can feel better than mechanical switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Sun, 24 May 2015, 21:20:39
Chiclet switches can feel better than