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geekhack Marketplace => Vendor Forums => Matias => Topic started by: jdcarpe on Mon, 10 November 2014, 09:08:48

Title: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 10 November 2014, 09:08:48
http://matias.ca/60/pc/
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: dante on Mon, 10 November 2014, 09:16:33
Let the wallets bleed!
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: JaccoW on Mon, 10 November 2014, 13:25:25
I really want it but can't pay right now. Does anyone know how long the GB will stay open?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: AKmalamute on Mon, 10 November 2014, 13:30:05
I really want it but can't pay right now. Does anyone know how long the GB will stay open?
There's the minor detail that it hasn't opened, yet.  :rolleyes:

The page is there, but when it passes your order on to the storefront ... the storefront says 'hey you didnt buy anything' because it hasn't been updated to know about the GB entries.

Hopefully sometime today. This is about the ... fifth? thread started to say hey look you can order it finally. Except as of this moment you can't  :eek:  :(

Hopefully today for real. I'm looking forward to it too.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 10 November 2014, 13:31:14
Now if I only knew what those linear switches were like.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: JaccoW on Mon, 10 November 2014, 13:54:55
I really want it but can't pay right now. Does anyone know how long the GB will stay open?
There's the minor detail that it hasn't opened, yet.  :rolleyes:
Well, that is certainly a part of the answer. :P

Now if I only knew what those linear switches were like.
Chances are you'll get the switches before the board anyway. I believe the lead time on this is 8-18 months. ;)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 10 November 2014, 16:20:37
This is about the ... fifth? thread started to say hey look you can order it finally. Except as of this moment you can't  :eek:  :(

But the only one in the correct place on the forum. ;D


Chances are you'll get the switches before the board anyway. I believe the lead time on this is 8-18 months. ;)

So fast!
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: AKmalamute on Mon, 10 November 2014, 17:19:16
But the only one in the correct place on the forum. ;D

That's why I responded in this one.

It looks tentatively like it's working ... or at least, I was able to submit an order and received an email from the shop that it was entered...

Had to let both the switches and keycaps go by because of cost. That's going to make the nav-cluster hard to work with on my end but such is the life of someone with too many hobbies and not enough income.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: geniekid on Tue, 11 November 2014, 10:48:55
I just put in an order for an assembled PC layout with linear switches!  Should be a nice surprise when I get this keyboard in 2016 :D
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Sat, 15 November 2014, 05:23:46
Thanks to everyone who's ordered so far!

We plan to keep the GB up until early January -- around 1.5 mths.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Mon, 05 January 2015, 13:28:30
Should be a nice surprise when I get this keyboard in 2016 :D

Right - By the time I get mine - I will have totally forgot about that 300$ purchase I did in 2014 :-)

@Matias - Do you have an idea on how many has been ordered so far?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Dionysos on Wed, 11 March 2015, 16:06:54
This is still up, does anyone have any more info about when this will end, and when shipping will begin? I'd like to get on the buy if it's not too far off.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Wed, 11 March 2015, 18:14:42
This is still up, does anyone have any more info about when this will end, and when shipping will begin? I'd like to get on the buy if it's not too far off.


Yes, we got enough orders to make the project happen.  We've left it up to see if we get enough to upgrade it to all PBT caps.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: pasph on Wed, 11 March 2015, 18:48:30
Can i order 60% Keyboard PC - UK Layout with Quiet Linear switches?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: NoahBC on Tue, 24 March 2015, 13:37:46
I have a couple of AEKII's that I would want to take the keycaps from, is it possible to only order the bottom row keys?

Also, if I ordered a pack of switches, a plate and a case, would it ship as it was ready or is everything going out at once?

Thanks Matias, you're making my dream keyboard!
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Wed, 25 March 2015, 03:12:46
I have a couple of AEKII's that I would want to take the keycaps from, is it possible to only order the bottom row keys?

Yes, we'll be selling individual keys as well, so for now you can just order the parts that are available for order.  The individual key order form will be done separately.



Also, if I ordered a pack of switches, a plate and a case, would it ship as it was ready or is everything going out at once?

Everything would go out at once.



Thanks Matias, you're making my dream keyboard!

Thanks for saying so.  :-)



Can i order 60% Keyboard PC - UK Layout with Quiet Linear switches?

We're not offering that option at the moment, but that may change as we get closer to production.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: rsadek on Fri, 27 March 2015, 23:46:09
I just noticed the PC version has a split right shift....could I do that to the mac one as well? Or does something prevent it?

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:14:26
I just noticed the PC version has a split right shift....could I do that to the mac one as well? Or does something prevent it?


If you're building your own, you can get the split Shift by using the PC plate.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: U47 on Sat, 04 April 2015, 23:16:47
Just in case I'm missing something, the top options on the form are for a completed keyboard. If I want to build it myself, I have to order from the bits below, right?

Is it possible to buy a bare PCB as well as the components separately? If not, what components are required to make a bare PCB fly? Is there a parts list for Mouser/Digikey or anything?

I'm assuming harvested orange Alps switches would work in place of Matias ones, but is it possible to order just the correct number of switches for the kit? Or even to split a pack and get 100 linear and 100 quiet clicky?

Just about to pull the trigger.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: rsadek on Sun, 05 April 2015, 21:38:01
I just noticed the PC version has a split right shift....could I do that to the mac one as well? Or does something prevent it?


If you're building your own, you can get the split Shift by using the PC plate.



Thanks that helps. To clarify this would also mean the full-nav cluster, is that correct?
A related question: will they keys in the nav cluster send different key codes than for example cmd-up? If so, that's great bc I always want more keys.

I'm trying to decide between the Mac and pc layouts.... For weeks.....losing sleep over it  :'(
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: agodinhost on Tue, 07 April 2015, 06:53:58
I saw one option to get the case in alu ...
Wich one?
And the price??
OMFG!!!
Wallet hack ...
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Tue, 07 April 2015, 12:33:27
I just noticed the PC version has a split right shift....could I do that to the mac one as well? Or does something prevent it?


If you're building your own, you can get the split Shift by using the PC plate.


Thanks that helps. To clarify this would also mean the full-nav cluster, is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

The PCB will likely be the same for both layouts, so you could just cut the plate where PgUp/PgDown and Home/End are, then solder one switch in the centre of each spot, to give you the right Option and Fn keys.



A related question: will they keys in the nav cluster send different key codes than for example cmd-up? If so, that's great bc I always want more keys.

The full nav cluster sends the codes for PgUp/Down, Home, and End, and Fn+Nav keys send unique codes you can hook into with macro software.

The for the model WITHOUT nav cluster, Fn+Arrows sends codes for PgUp/Down, Home/End.



I'm trying to decide between the Mac and pc layouts.... For weeks.....losing sleep over it  :'(

Remember, the PC one is switchable to Mac.  If you want more keys, that one definitely gives you more.



Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Tue, 07 April 2015, 12:51:22
Just in case I'm missing something, the top options on the form are for a completed keyboard. If I want to build it myself, I have to order from the bits below, right?

Yes, that's correct.

Everything below "DIY Component Parts" is for building your own.  Everything above is pre-assembled.



Is it possible to buy a bare PCB as well as the components separately? If not, what components are required to make a bare PCB fly? Is there a parts list for Mouser/Digikey or anything?

The bare PCB is offered mainly for those wanting to heavily modify it (for example, replacing the controller chip with their own custom one).

Since a lot of the parts are SMD, if you just want to solder different switches onto it, getting the "presoldered components PCB without switches" is probably the way to go.



I'm assuming harvested orange Alps switches would work in place of Matias ones, but is it possible to order just the correct number of switches for the kit? Or even to split a pack and get 100 linear and 100 quiet clicky?

We only sell the switches in packs of 200, but MechanicalKeyboards.com has 110-pacs and 90-packs...

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/?m=&c=52&l=product_list&sortby=price:desc


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: rsadek on Tue, 07 April 2015, 15:17:00
The PCB will likely be the same for both layouts, so you could just cut the plate where PgUp/PgDown and Home/End are, then solder one switch in the centre of each spot, to give you the right Option and Fn keys.
A related question: will they keys in the nav cluster send different key codes than for example cmd-up? If so, that's great bc I always want more keys.

The full nav cluster sends the codes for PgUp/Down, Home, and End, and Fn+Nav keys send unique codes you can hook into with macro software.

The for the model WITHOUT nav cluster, Fn+Arrows sends codes for PgUp/Down, Home/End.

I'm trying to decide between the Mac and pc layouts.... For weeks.....losing sleep over it  :'(

Remember, the PC one is switchable to Mac.  If you want more keys, that one definitely gives you more.

Wow! Thank you so much! This is exactly what I want. I will need to adjust my order from Mac to PC, then do the plate mod. I'm so excited!!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: njbair on Tue, 07 April 2015, 22:10:01
Are you using standard switches for the navigation cluster? It looks like the keys would be too small for standard switches to fit. Also, it looks like the bottom row keys are nonstandard. With all the recent Matias-made keycap talk, will you be offering custom sets for this board as well?

Finally, once this GB is complete, will this board ever become a standard product offering?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: rsadek on Fri, 17 April 2015, 10:32:54
The PCB will likely be the same for both layouts, so you could just cut the plate where PgUp/PgDown and Home/End are, then solder one switch in the centre of each spot, to give you the right Option and Fn keys.
A related question: will they keys in the nav cluster send different key codes than for example cmd-up? If so, that's great bc I always want more keys.

The full nav cluster sends the codes for PgUp/Down, Home, and End, and Fn+Nav keys send unique codes you can hook into with macro software.

The for the model WITHOUT nav cluster, Fn+Arrows sends codes for PgUp/Down, Home/End.

I'm trying to decide between the Mac and pc layouts.... For weeks.....losing sleep over it  :'(

Remember, the PC one is switchable to Mac.  If you want more keys, that one definitely gives you more.

Wow! Thank you so much! This is exactly what I want. I will need to adjust my order from Mac to PC, then do the plate mod. I'm so excited!!  :thumb:

Hi Matias, whom do I contact to adjust my existing order? I want to switch the plate and buy more stuff for self assembly.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: vindigo on Sun, 19 April 2015, 11:52:44
Perhaps a question for Matias:
Is the "quiet linear switches" choice referring to either of:
1) 35cN linear switches with red stems, for example described in the open steno project here: https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-steno-project/mechanical-keyboard-switch
 OR
2) 55cN linear switches with with white stems, for example used in the KBParadise V60 Mini described here:
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1103

As Matias adds linear switches to their product line, which linear switch force will be initially dominant? 35cN, or 55cN, or something else?
Thank you.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: rz on Tue, 26 May 2015, 13:02:24
When this GB will end?

Just ordered Ergo Pro (3rd run), hope to have it in July. Want to test out Matias switch and the lower bar before put down another 150.

Really intrigued by this board tho..
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Tue, 26 May 2015, 13:56:37

Perhaps a question for Matias:
Is the "quiet linear switches" choice referring to either of:
1) 35cN linear switches with red stems, for example described in the open steno project here: https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-steno-project/mechanical-keyboard-switch
 OR
2) 55cN linear switches with with white stems, for example used in the KBParadise V60 Mini described here:
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1103


Yes, those are our switches.  They feel very nice if you like linear, and they are quiet.




As Matias adds linear switches to their product line, which linear switch force will be initially dominant? 35cN, or 55cN, or something else?
Thank you.


IMO if you need/like linear switches, around 35cN to 45cN is where you want to be.

As for linear vs. tactile, it depends on your application...

Linear switches are better if you are continuously pressing a small number of keys -- for example, WASD navigation while gaming.  Tactile switches are better if you are pressing lots of different keys in rapid succession -- typing, for example.




When this GB will end?

Just ordered Ergo Pro (3rd run), hope to have it in July. Want to test out Matias switch and the lower bar before put down another 150.

Really intrigued by this board tho..


We're keeping the GB open for now.  We sold enough to upgrade everyone to PBT caps for all keys (which I'm very happy about).  The remaining PBT tooling should be done in about 3 months.




Are you using standard switches for the navigation cluster? It looks like the keys would be too small for standard switches to fit. Also, it looks like the bottom row keys are nonstandard. With all the recent Matias-made keycap talk, will you be offering custom sets for this board as well?


Yes, they are standard switches -- ALPS allow for 0.75u spacing and we did custom caps to support it.  We'll be offer custom sets for sure.




Finally, once this GB is complete, will this board ever become a standard product offering?


We haven't made a final decision on that yet.  However, if we do, we won't offer as many custom options as this GB does.



Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: rz on Tue, 26 May 2015, 16:06:21

When will this GB end?

Just ordered Ergo Pro (3rd run), hope to have it in July. Want to test out Matias switch and the lower bar before put down another 150.

Really intrigued by this board tho..

We're keeping the GB open for now.  We sold enough to upgrade everyone to PBT caps for all keys (which I'm very happy about).  The remaining PBT tooling should be done in about 3 months.



Thanks, guess I will have a little bit more time to think about this. Please give a warning here or on twitter when you decide to close the GB. :)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Mon, 08 June 2015, 23:45:12
I second that about knowing before it closes.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 17 June 2015, 15:15:22
Yes I'd like to know as well. I will be joining as soon as possible but I will need to wait until my next paycheck.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 23 June 2015, 18:39:29
We're keeping the GB open for now.  We sold enough to upgrade everyone to PBT caps for all keys (which I'm very happy about).  The remaining PBT tooling should be done in about 3 months.

That is such a great news  :cool:
(not so new, sorry I don't visit often enough)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: fishcola on Thu, 13 August 2015, 18:39:27
hello!
I've lurked the Matias 60% order form for months at this point. In the fear of missing it, is there a concrete order deadline?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: 3rain3ug on Tue, 25 August 2015, 10:08:17
Would be nice to get an update!
In some month I paid a Year ago and I think people like me want to know how the things going on...
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Tue, 25 August 2015, 11:52:04
Thanks for asking.  We are indeed overdue for an update.  The main rate limiting step for the 60% keyboard is the PBT keycap tooling, so I'll focus on that for this update...

The keycap tooling has been underway for a while and I received T2 samples of the PBT keycaps last week.  It's looking good!  I'll be in China most of next month to oversee the T3 samples -- which hopefully will be final.

We also had to design a jig to hold the keycaps for the dye sub printing process.  That design was complicated somewhat by the smaller 3/4u keys, but I think most of the issues are now worked out.  Those who were at the Matias Meetup last month got to see the prototype jig -- there were pictures of the meetup posted on GH.

We're VERY excited with how this is going and the possibilities these keycaps open up for us and for the ALPS community generally.  Expect more updates next month, as things develop in China.  Also, feel free to post any questions here.  Thanks to everyone who ordered!

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 25 August 2015, 12:44:04
Hey Matias what's the deadline for orders? At least a few different people are wanting to know.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Wed, 26 August 2015, 13:38:51
Hey Matias what's the deadline for orders? At least a few different people are wanting to know.


We won't know the deadline until we're closer to production.  Until then, it will stay open.

The cutoff date will be about 2 months prior to production -- which is when we have to start ordering parts.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: 3rain3ug on Fri, 04 September 2015, 05:07:44
Thanks for the News! =)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: crepusculat on Mon, 14 September 2015, 09:26:09
I would be interested in joining the group buy if there was an option for a keyboard in a UK Mac layout. I guess there was too little interest in that option for it to be included explicitly - but am I right in thinking that something like it could be achieved if I ordered a PC ISO version and asked for the keys to be replaced where possible/ appropriate by those normally used for the US Mac version?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Belfong on Tue, 22 September 2015, 19:45:04
I'm so ready for this now, after selling some key set off and have some $ in PayPal :)

It's good to be back to my old love :)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Wed, 23 September 2015, 11:08:22

I would be interested in joining the group buy if there was an option for a keyboard in a UK Mac layout. I guess there was too little interest in that option for it to be included explicitly - but am I right in thinking that something like it could be achieved if I ordered a PC ISO version and asked for the keys to be replaced where possible/ appropriate by those normally used for the US Mac version?


Yes, that's correct.  There is a DIP switch for selecting Mac or PC, for all the layouts.

BTW, I'm in China now.  The new keycap tooling is almost done!  And the 3D drawing of the 60% keyboard is nearly done too.  I'll be posting screen caps soon.

Thanks to everyone who pre-ordered!

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 15 October 2015, 11:29:11
Getting close to a year after the OP. Any chances we hold in hands our keyboards before the end of 2016?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: RyanArr on Mon, 26 October 2015, 14:09:51
Any word when the GB closes? Little short on coin ATM, but I'd hate to miss the deadline.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: tuananh_bkk on Wed, 28 October 2015, 23:40:29
i email info@matias few days back but got no reply.

i was wondering which version is the mac version (Aluminum)? The black one or the white one?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: 3rain3ug on Tue, 10 November 2015, 05:19:27
How are the things going on? Please give us an Update =)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: 3rain3ug on Mon, 14 December 2015, 08:16:37
Nothing?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Tue, 15 December 2015, 23:20:49

We're long overdue for an update, so here we go...

The PBT keycap tooling is done, and the GB is getting upgraded to full PBT.  We're now working out the laser etching process for PBT.  We've been at it about 2 months, but I think we're close to being done.  I'm waiting to receive samples.

The case design is also mostly done.  I'll post some pictures soon.  I'm going to be in China again for the latter half of January, so I'm hoping to bring a sample back with me.

We also visited several aluminum factories.  We have 2 good candidates in the running.

That's all for now.  Feel free to post any questions.

Happy Holidays to everyone!

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: RyanArr on Wed, 16 December 2015, 00:52:50
Glad to hear this project is moving along. A few questions:

Can you post images of all the layouts that are available? Specifically I'm wondering what the JIS layout looks like and how you're rearranging the mod row for it. Looking at the key counts on your order form it appears there may be some non-obvious differences between the Arrow Key and Full Nav versions of this one.

Can we count on some warning before the GB closes?

I believe you mentioned previously that the controller on a separate PCB so it will be easy to swap it for programability. Will there be specs available for the physical dimensions and electrical connections of the controller board so we can get a head start on this?

Any timeline on PBT keys for other boards? I'm typing this on my Ergo Pro on some very shiny and worn down keys. I may use some retro caps for the alphanumerics, but that doesn't help for the custom keys. (By the way, best keyboard ever, there's a reason I've already worn out the caps)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Sun, 20 December 2015, 15:29:09

Glad to hear this project is moving along. A few questions:

Can you post images of all the layouts that are available? Specifically I'm wondering what the JIS layout looks like and how you're rearranging the mod row for it. Looking at the key counts on your order form it appears there may be some non-obvious differences between the Arrow Key and Full Nav versions of this one.

See end of this post.




Can we count on some warning before the GB closes?

Yes, will definitely post before it closes.




I believe you mentioned previously that the controller on a separate PCB so it will be easy to swap it for programability. Will there be specs available for the physical dimensions and electrical connections of the controller board so we can get a head start on this?

We have daughter-board PCBs for our other keyboards (that have bigger bezels), but I'm not sure we'll be able to do it on this one.  Spacing is very tight.  Instead, we'll release the PCB drawing, so it'll be easy to get a custom PCB done.




Any timeline on PBT keys for other boards? I'm typing this on my Ergo Pro on some very shiny and worn down keys. I may use some retro caps for the alphanumerics, but that doesn't help for the custom keys. (By the way, best keyboard ever, there's a reason I've already worn out the caps)

Glad you like the Ergo Pro!

The PBT tooling is done.  We're just working out the details of legend printing.  For white legends on black PBT, we're doing laser.  I'm waiting on the samples now.


PC layouts are shown below.  The Mac layouts have L-Ctrl and Fn positions swapped...


[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=4]


[attachimg=2]


[attachimg=5]


[attachimg=3]


[attachimg=6]

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: 13eet on Tue, 05 January 2016, 13:08:20
This new layout is a bit confusing. while ordering there are only pc-us and mac-us option avalible, but now windows has full-nav and non-full-nav. though the update says mac version will have fn and ctrl switched, does that mean mac will have two version as well? I hope it is not too late to ask for a change...
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: furosuto81 on Mon, 18 January 2016, 21:50:54
Just preordered mine! I got the PC model and splurged on the aluminum case. Between that and the PBT keycaps, this should last a good, long time.

I do have a question about the aluminum case option though. Can you only get it in black? Or will bare/silver aluminum be an option?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: WNovizar on Tue, 19 January 2016, 21:11:35
Hey Matias,

I just ordered Matias 60% Keyboard with Quiet Click and wanted to ask some questions"

It was said that only the bottom row is using PBT (Dye-Sub or Doubleshot?) Keycaps and Quiet Click Switches, anything else is using Cherry MX Switch and ABS (Dye-Sub or Doubleshot?) Keycaps. is that true?


THanks
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: RyanArr on Thu, 21 January 2016, 21:06:29
Hey Matias,

I just ordered Matias 60% Keyboard with Quiet Click and wanted to ask some questions"

It was said that only the bottom row is using PBT (Dye-Sub or Doubleshot?) Keycaps and Quiet Click Switches, anything else is using Cherry MX Switch and ABS (Dye-Sub or Doubleshot?) Keycaps. is that true?


THanks

Matias posted some time ago that they surpassed the MOQ threshold so all keys will be PBT. All switches are Matias, all caps are Alps mount. For non-bottow row keys the PCB and plate will be capable of accepting MX switches, but that is only a DIY option, Matias doesn't actually sell MX switches or caps.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:30:21
Not sure if this is the only thread on this board, but anyone know when the group buy closes? Is the keyboard programmable?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 11 February 2016, 10:38:24
Not sure if this is the only thread on this board, but anyone know when the group buy closes? Is the keyboard programmable?

Hey Matias what's the deadline for orders? At least a few different people are wanting to know.


We won't know the deadline until we're closer to production.  Until then, it will stay open.

The cutoff date will be about 2 months prior to production -- which is when we have to start ordering parts.



Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 25 February 2016, 12:25:53
This new layout is a bit confusing. while ordering there are only pc-us and mac-us option avalible, but now windows has full-nav and non-full-nav. though the update says mac version will have fn and ctrl switched, does that mean mac will have two version as well? I hope it is not too late to ask for a change...

This raises some concerns for me too. I want US(65) or nothing - Last year when I ordered there was no layout options.

@Matias - So will these be all options? If yes, when will we get to chose the one we want?

Thanks
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: belac on Thu, 25 February 2016, 12:52:59
This new layout is a bit confusing. while ordering there are only pc-us and mac-us option avalible, but now windows has full-nav and non-full-nav. though the update says mac version will have fn and ctrl switched, does that mean mac will have two version as well? I hope it is not too late to ask for a change...

This raises some concerns for me too. I want US(65) or nothing - Last year when I ordered there was no layout options.

@Matias - So will these be all options? If yes, when will we get to chose the one we want?

Thanks

I was under the impression that the PC US fully assembled option was US( 68 ) because that is what is shown in the pictures on the order page. That is the only layout I am interested in, and now you've made me nervous that might not be what I receive. I thought the other configurations were for DIY only. Hopefully, Matias can provide some insight soon.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 14 May 2016, 16:37:02
BUMP @Matias - Any updates?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Sun, 15 May 2016, 04:24:02
Honestly don't like that layout in the slightest personally, i'm quite happy with my KBP V60 for my Matias clicky 60% needs.  It's nice to see them venturing into new territory however.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: geniekid on Wed, 18 May 2016, 09:54:54
BUMP @Matias - Any updates?

+1!
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 19 May 2016, 16:47:51
,MagicForce 68 Outemu Blacks

Meanwhile I got one of those too and hope the transition to the Matias 60 will worth the wait.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: alc on Sun, 07 August 2016, 00:08:06
Hoping we hear some news soon, one way or another. I have resorted to scratching my keyboard itch by acquiring other, inferior 60% boards :D
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 26 August 2016, 07:00:27
Hoping we hear some news soon, one way or another. I have resorted to scratching my keyboard itch by acquiring other, inferior 60% boards :D

I sent an email asking for news to [beep]@matias.ca few weeks ago and the response was totally generic and without any new piece of information. On which I reply politely it was the same BS as year old information available on geekhack. The answer to that was, I will speak to our rep to update the information on geekhack...

As you can see... the rep didn't show up with any kind of news.

I'm a bit disappointed.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 02 September 2016, 18:01:50
(Read 18640 times)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: belac on Tue, 06 September 2016, 08:12:05

I emailed the company last week asking for an update and if Edgar could make an appearance here on geekhack to respond to questions that have gone unanswered for months. This is the reply I received this morning.
Quote
Hi ,

I'm happy to advise that the Matias 60% Keyboard has received enough
pre-orders that we will be doing the keyboard with all PBT keycaps. The
tooling for the PBT keycaps is essentially done, and we are turning our
attention now to the best ways of having the letters appear on the keycaps
(laser etching vs dye sublimation vs other methods). Then we will turn our
attention to designing and tooling the electronics and other components of
the keyboard. We've received lots of feedback from the mechanical keyboard
community, so we've been slow and deliberate about designing the keyboard,
because we want to listen to everyone's voice.

Best guess is that the design and engineering process will be completed
around the end of this year, and production will occur in early 2017.
Remember this is not a regular product, as we are essentially making many
variations as a special "group buy" project, so the idea is that people
order the variation they are interested in early, and then we manufacture
only that quantity that matches the orders received.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: alc on Tue, 06 September 2016, 20:46:28
That's the exact response I got when I asked 3 weeks ago.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: geniekid on Wed, 07 September 2016, 09:18:42
Thanks for the updates guys.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: RyanArr on Tue, 27 September 2016, 18:58:24
So I just checked this thread and the Matias website for the first time in about six months after a long sad hiatus from the keyboard community. I see that Matias appears to be taking official orders now and not just preorders. Has anyone got their goods? Also, I see their order form changed, is the part called "NavCluster" the plate? If so, where is the Mac plate? Are we supposed to get the PCB plate and Dremel (which is fine by me, just trying to understand)?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: tuananh_bkk on Tue, 08 November 2016, 23:57:58
i still see the pre-order form!
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Belfong on Mon, 26 December 2016, 09:09:39

I emailed the company last week asking for an update and if Edgar could make an appearance here on geekhack to respond to questions that have gone unanswered for months. This is the reply I received this morning.
Quote
Hi ,

I'm happy to advise that the Matias 60% Keyboard has received enough
pre-orders that we will be doing the keyboard with all PBT keycaps. The
tooling for the PBT keycaps is essentially done, and we are turning our
attention now to the best ways of having the letters appear on the keycaps
(laser etching vs dye sublimation vs other methods). Then we will turn our
attention to designing and tooling the electronics and other components of
the keyboard. We've received lots of feedback from the mechanical keyboard
community, so we've been slow and deliberate about designing the keyboard,
because we want to listen to everyone's voice.

Best guess is that the design and engineering process will be completed
around the end of this year, and production will occur in early 2017.
Remember this is not a regular product, as we are essentially making many
variations as a special "group buy" project, so the idea is that people
order the variation they are interested in early, and then we manufacture
only that quantity that matches the orders received.

So, I am wondering if it is even worth trying to make a pre order or is this something I should wait until it is in full production and ready to sell on the store?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: dante on Mon, 26 December 2016, 09:26:05
So, I am wondering if it is even worth trying to make a pre order or is this something I should wait until it is in full production and ready to sell on the store?

He's here!
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Mon, 26 December 2016, 14:01:38

An update is long overdue.  Here is the latest on this project...

The 3D design is mostly done, and some of the components are already in production -- namely, the hybrid Cherry/ALPS stabilizer clips (see attached photos) and balance bars.

We had originally planned to use ALPS stabilizers everywhere, but they don't provide enough support for longer keys (like spacebars).  Traditional ALPS spacebars have a stabilizer post, but in today's Cherry-dominated world, we felt the hybrid clips made more sense.

In the photos, the beige samples are prototypes, pink samples are pre-production, and grey are final production parts.


[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=2]


[attachimg=3]


(Sorry the photos are not better.  They were taken on a hotel sink basin in China -- flew back the day before yesterday.)

We got lost in the weeds of the problem of printing white legends on black PBT.  It's a lot harder than I thought it would be.  We have a process worked out, but our main factory's laser machine is not up to the task, so they are buying another one.

I know there is some concern and disappointment at how long this is all taking to finish.  I share your frustration.  With hardware, small problems can lead to long delays.  With this project, we tackled several big problems simultaneously, and that complicated things further.

For context, our Ergo Pro keyboard took twice as long as we had originally estimated to finish, but the final shipping product is generally considered to be the best ergonomic keyboard on the market at the moment.  So the wait was worth it.  I'm hopeful that will be the case with the 60% keyboard as well.

Thanks to all who have waited this long.  For those who cannot wait, please accept my apologies.  We will promptly refund your money and hope you find a suitable alternative 60.  Fortunately, there are lots of 60% keyboards available now.

Happy Holidays to everyone....
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: sems on Mon, 26 December 2016, 14:19:22
Will there be a production run after the group buy? Also can we see the plastic case and the aluminum case side by side?

I'm tempted by the aluminum one and a pc/mac friendly layout is interesting but I want to see how this gb will go through first.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: dante on Mon, 26 December 2016, 21:45:11
He's here!
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 27 December 2016, 11:59:22

An update is long overdue.  Here is the latest on this project...
(...)
Happy Holidays to everyone....

We understand "innovation" can take longer than expected when you aim for quality. I think some of the disappointment is about the lack of "regular" updates here. I've waited so much already. I'm not going ask for a refund.

Happy holidays.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Wed, 28 December 2016, 13:44:37
Will there be a production run after the group buy?

We haven't decided that yet.  It depends on demand.



Also can we see the plastic case and the aluminum case side by side?

I'm tempted by the aluminum one and a pc/mac friendly layout is interesting but I want to see how this gb will go through first.

Sorry, but we haven't made case samples yet.



We understand "innovation" can take longer than expected when you aim for quality. I think some of the disappointment is about the lack of "regular" updates here.

Yes, I'm sure that's true.  Things are starting to move again.  I'll post more updates as things progress.



I've waited so much already. I'm not going ask for a refund.

Happy holidays.

Thanks.  Happy holidays.


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: sneaux on Tue, 03 January 2017, 12:52:32
Realizing this is my first post here, so hi everybody :)

After reading the GB page, it's unclear what level of programmability will be available in the board. It's great that enthusiasts will be able to grab some components to customize the appearance of their setups. Since it was indicated that this process wasn't being rushed to consider enthusiast feedback, I just wanted to give my two cents.

 The arrow cluster, yes it is nice, but it + a few functions instead of real programmability would be unfortunate. There isn't a good reason for the board not to be fully programmable with software, preferably developed by the community, at this point imo. Enthusiasts get what they want and people that don't care one way or another probably never need to worry about the feature. There isn't something like the bpiphany's frosty flake replacement controllers available for the matias keyboards afaik, but even if there were, I kinda just want to order the board, then use the board.. instead of order the board, void any warranty it had to get to par, then use the board.. To me at least, this is much more important than white on black PBT keycaps (though that would be cool still).
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Wed, 04 January 2017, 19:43:54
The arrow cluster, yes it is nice, but it + a few functions instead of real programmability would be unfortunate. There isn't a good reason for the board not to be fully programmable with software, preferably developed by the community, at this point imo. Enthusiasts get what they want and people that don't care one way or another probably never need to worry about the feature. There isn't something like the bpiphany's frosty flake replacement controllers available for the matias keyboards afaik, but even if there were, I kinda just want to order the board, then use the board.. instead of order the board, void any warranty it had to get to par, then use the board.. To me at least, this is much more important than white on black PBT keycaps (though that would be cool still).

Welcome to GeekHack.  Thanks for commenting...

The keyboard itself is not programmable, but we will be releasing the PCB specs so that anyone who wants to do a custom version that is programmable, will be able to.  That's also a lot of the motivation for making the component parts available as part of the GB.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 05 January 2017, 03:56:45

Also can we see the plastic case and the aluminum case side by side?

I'm tempted by the aluminum one and a pc/mac friendly layout is interesting but I want to see how this gb will go through first.

Sorry, but we haven't made case samples yet.


Matias, interested in buying your 60% keyboard but what exactly are you running here, a Group Buy and if so how long to wait till we actually get your wondrous keyboard in our hands?

Looking to acquire your Aluminium Model so please let me know what is currently happening.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Belfong on Thu, 05 January 2017, 06:40:51
Yeah, I'm interested to know as well, especially if it's a good idea to order now, or just waiting for it to hit stores. For me, I'd love some clicky Alps for the PC.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 06 January 2017, 20:24:48
Yeah, I'm interested to know as well, especially if it's a good idea to order now, or just waiting for it to hit stores. For me, I'd love some clicky Alps for the PC.

I'm interested in getting his Matias Linears because heard great things about it, plus it's Linear very rare for Alps anywhere.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: ryahirv on Sat, 07 January 2017, 09:32:16
I was also long ago interested in this but it has already taken so long that I'm not keen to just have money floating out there for "who knows how long" with no product in sight or on any schedule.

I call that "Kickstarter" usually. lol

I really think Matias needs to get this program on some kind of schedule they commit to or many will never join and I don't blame those people one bit.

Take money now and get keyboard "someday" isn't acceptable really.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 10 January 2017, 08:38:42
Take money now and get keyboard "someday" isn't acceptable really.

Certainly not the place to start if you need a keyboard now. I'm glad enough people had the faith to throw their money in this uncertain project. I'm looking forward to have my aluminum case Matias 60% rare gem in hands.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: tuananh_bkk on Fri, 13 January 2017, 22:55:46
Matias, can we have a commitment date?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: rsadek on Sun, 05 February 2017, 05:38:43
Hi Mattias,
Since placing my order, I've moved. How can I update my shipping address?
Thanks!
-R
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: robbert on Sat, 18 February 2017, 08:44:44
I got this from matias.ca:
Current estimate is that design and tooling will be finalized in Spring 2017, and production will occur in Fall 2017

Or is 2016 just replaced with 2017  ;D
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: tuananh_bkk on Sat, 18 February 2017, 21:24:34
if i recall correctly, this all started in 2014 right?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: LogicLoop on Sun, 19 February 2017, 08:06:17
Hello, everyone. I'm new to this keyboard but very interested, and have just a few questions.

1) I have heard some anecdotal stories of Matias QC switches developing problems with chatter. In one case a customer emailed Matias and was told that the problem was identified and remedied. Does this mean that the switches which go into these boards will not have such issues? Could there possibly be a key-combo shortcut to manipulate debounce time on the controller? We could then choose fast response times with the possibility of chatter, for gaming, or more consistent performance for typing.

2) I seem to remember it being said that the plate and PCB would be held in by screws coming up from the bottom of the case. Is this still the case? This would make it easier to then switch cases without de-capping the keys, which I understand on a Matias/ALPS stem can result in snapped stems.

3) On that subject, could there be an option to order a fully assembled board, but with the caps packaged loose? This would let me lube all the stabilisers (which I am very very particular about) and then place the caps on myself, without any wrestling/swearing/cursing trying to get them off?

I wish you all the best on this board Mr. Matias and look forward to any updates.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Wed, 22 February 2017, 12:00:10

Hello, everyone. I'm new to this keyboard but very interested, and have just a few questions.


Thanks for your questions...



1) I have heard some anecdotal stories of Matias QC switches developing problems with chatter. In one case a customer emailed Matias and was told that the problem was identified and remedied. Does this mean that the switches which go into these boards will not have such issues? Could there possibly be a key-combo shortcut to manipulate debounce time on the controller? We could then choose fast response times with the possibility of chatter, for gaming, or more consistent performance for typing.


That's an interesting idea.  I'm not sure if it would make a difference, given the short times involved.

We did a change recently to our switch tooling to significantly reduce the wobble.  All switches currently in production are the new low-wobble variety.  They can also be identified by our logo on the switch (see attached photo).



2) I seem to remember it being said that the plate and PCB would be held in by screws coming up from the bottom of the case. Is this still the case? This would make it easier to then switch cases without de-capping the keys, which I understand on a Matias/ALPS stem can result in snapped stems.


Actually no -- the screws will go in from the top, down into the case, and the case is one piece.

There should be no issues with stems snapping.  I've only heard of this happening with a clone that didn't size their stems correctly.  It's never been a problem for our switches.



3) On that subject, could there be an option to order a fully assembled board, but with the caps packaged loose? This would let me lube all the stabilisers (which I am very very particular about) and then place the caps on myself, without any wrestling/swearing/cursing trying to get them off?


We do this already actually.  It's a requirement for boards that use our Quiet Click switches.  Otherwise you get metal and plastic parts rattling together, making a noisy racket.

However, if you'd rather do this yourself, I'm sure we can arrange something.



I wish you all the best on this board Mr. Matias and look forward to any updates.

Thanks.  I'm leaving for China next week, and will be touring some aluminum factories for this project.



[attachimg=1]


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: kawasaki161 on Thu, 23 February 2017, 01:12:56
Absolutely cool project.
I saw the post about the stabiliser inserts a bit further up, and I was wondering, whether or not it is possible to buy the Costar to Alps adapters separately?
I already filled out the contact form on the Matias site, but I unfortunately didn't get any answer yet.

Edit: just got an answer to my request via e-mail  :thumb:
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Thu, 23 February 2017, 23:08:46

Absolutely cool project.
I saw the post about the stabiliser inserts a bit further up, and I was wondering, whether or not it is possible to buy the Costar to Alps adapters separately?

Edit: just got an answer to my request via e-mail  :thumb:


Great, let me know if you have any questions...



Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Delirious on Thu, 23 February 2017, 23:56:52
Edgar if you have time please visit the Alps Appreciation Thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.0) sometimes, there are a lot of good info in the thread.

Like you said, 2 years later the world moves on, there are a lot of alternatives out there. Speaking just for myself and I'm sure there are many out there who share the same views, I just want PBT keycaps at this point. Will you be able release blank PBT within this year?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: LogicLoop on Fri, 24 February 2017, 09:25:21
Thanks for being active in the community, Edgar. In reference to the above point about key chatter: I was under the impression that this was due to a problem with the metal contacts inside the switch, yet you talk about reducing stem wobble? How are these connected?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: kousuke on Fri, 10 March 2017, 06:39:46
Any chance for a version with 3 buttons pointing stick?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: ctm on Sun, 12 March 2017, 21:13:46

That's an interesting idea.  I'm not sure if it would make a difference, given the short times involved.

We did a change recently to our switch tooling to significantly reduce the wobble.  All switches currently in production are the new low-wobble variety.  They can also be identified by our logo on the switch (see attached photo).

(Attachment Link)
Does this also address the problem that quite click feel different when pressing from upper or lower edge? I wonder if I should replace switches in my current Alps64 for the low wobble ones.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Mon, 03 April 2017, 20:37:10
Here we go, we are in April 2017, no posts no progress?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: LogicLoop on Sun, 07 May 2017, 03:34:40
Here we go, we are in April 2017, no posts no progress?

And now May...

It's the Keycaps thread which gets the attention nowadays.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: varmemester on Wed, 10 May 2017, 15:45:20
Hello!

Question: On matias.store the plastic version is preordered for 150 usd. If you want the nordic, german or UK version you have to buy it from http://www.keyboardco.com/. There the price is 194 usd (150 gpb). What explains the difference?

Thanks
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Thu, 11 May 2017, 14:26:06


Question: On matias.store the plastic version is preordered for 150 usd. If you want the nordic, german or UK version you have to buy it from http://www.keyboardco.com/. There the price is 194 usd (150 gpb). What explains the difference?


Thanks for your question...

I suspect the difference is currency fluctuation.  The GBP has dropped quite a bit since the Brexit vote.




Here we go, we are in April 2017, no posts no progress?

And now May...

It's the Keycaps thread which gets the attention nowadays.


Sorry,  I posted an update on the project in the IC thread here...

https://geekhack.org/?topic=60268.msg2411753#msg2411753

Further to that update, I just finished working out the balance bar sizes, that will allow any ALPS keycap to work with Costar-style Cherry stabilizers.

My original plan was to use ALPS stabilizers for Cherry, but the other way around works better.

The new stabilizers will also work with Signature Plastics' ALPS caps (which require Cherry stabilizer clips).


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: varmemester on Fri, 12 May 2017, 08:21:15
Regarding pricedifference I got this email from keyboardco:
Hi Malthe
 
If you import from Matias you will need to pay local tax on arrival in Denmark. (25%)
 
Ordering from the UK (EU) you have already paid 20% UK VAT, so will not have to pay anything else.
 
So it should work out about the same price, but you save on any trouble and fees when it arrives in Denmark.
 
Regards
 
Martin
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Fri, 12 May 2017, 10:12:04
Regarding price difference I got this email from keyboardco:

Hi Malthe
 
If you import from Matias you will need to pay local tax on arrival in Denmark. (25%)
 
Ordering from the UK (EU) you have already paid 20% UK VAT, so will not have to pay anything else.
 
So it should work out about the same price, but you save on any trouble and fees when it arrives in Denmark.
 
Regards
 
Martin


This is a very good point.

I don't know how it is in Europe, but in Canada you also often will have to pay a duty processing fee in imported items (typically $25 to $50) which is usually more than the actual duty charged.


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: daaawooo on Fri, 12 May 2017, 19:05:39
I'm from Germany and I also bought stuff from keyboardco.
Sometimes keyboardco is cheaper than MD - most times not, but often MD does not have a ISO or DE layout option.


Some info about importing stuff to the "broader" EU market a.k.a. EEA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area))

1) in general the buyer needs to pay VAT (17% - 27% depending on buyers country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax))
2) depending on product category/type of product a customs duty must be paid (for computer and computer parts it's 0%)
3) some countries charge a duty processing fee (luckily for me no such fee in Germany, not really because customs clerks are paid from our "other" taxes)
4a) in some countries if the shipment includes a correct customs declaration the shipping company does the customs/duty processing for free (like in Germany w/ DHL)
4b) in other countries or if no such correct customs declaration, buyer needs to go to the customs office (-> travel fees and time)
4c) buyer can outsource the process of 4b) to someone else (in Germany: DHL does the job for 28-29 EUR, interesting if your earn more money per hour than you spend on the trip to the customs office) and shipment will arrive at your doorstep

5) there may be exceptions for low value items for all or some points from above.
6) there may be exceptions of (1) for some product categories -> a lower VAT applies (e.g. food, books)
7) depending on type of product (e.g. coffee, oil, alc) other taxes may apply

If you are lucky a high value shipment slipped through customs and you don't need to pay anything, but do not count on that. If the sender states a lower value on customs declarations, so that you can avoid customs, that could be resulting in paying more than normal.

So depending on your location, buying from a EU/EAA based dealer may be cheaper than importing from US.

But the biggest problem is: the price tag difference between US and EU.

- default no VAT included in the US
- but in EU VAT is included (for private citizens)

but after 20+ years importing stuff I'm used to that.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: dante on Sat, 13 May 2017, 09:55:49
Matias, out of curiosity have you considered doing a limited run - maybe even for the GB - of Linear switches with a stiffer spring from the other switches and no dampening material or included tactile leaf?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: varmemester on Sun, 14 May 2017, 04:34:00
But the biggest problem is: the price tag difference between US and EU.

- default no VAT included in the US
- but in EU VAT is included (for private citizens)

Thank you for the information regarding VAT. Very informative. I thought the US charged VAT on imported items (for private citizens). Very interesting and probably something I should have known.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: daaawooo on Sun, 14 May 2017, 16:59:46
I thought the US charged VAT on imported items (for private citizens). Very interesting and probably something I should have known.

maybe somebody can jump in to clear that up for us non-US geekhackers ... as far as I know VAT in the US depends on state of seller and/or buyer.
import fees, duty, etc. are already paid by seller (e.g. MD), so a buyer from the US, who buys from as US based seller, doesn't have all this additional cost like us non-US buyers.

even rather strange is shipping things twice around the world, paying customs twice, etc. is needed so that most GMK GBs happen.
but EU-customers are to low in numbers, so for many companies an EU-based fulfillment center / warehouse doesn't make economic sense.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Mon, 22 May 2017, 09:18:38
So any chance to get a hand on our orders in 2017?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Mon, 22 May 2017, 15:14:55
So any chance to get a hand on our orders in 2017?

Pretty good chance.  I'm supposed to get the new balance bars early next month.  If my calculations were correct, they'll allow any ALPS keycap to work with Costar-style Cherry stabilizers.

This is a critical piece of the puzzle, because not all ALPS keycaps use the same stabilizers...  Traditional ALPS keycaps have different balance bar sizes for each key width (2u, 2.25u, 2.75u) while Cherry stabilizers use the same 2u balance bar for 2-2.75u.

The Ergo Pro also has 2.5u caps, which have their own balance bar size.

Signature Plastics uses Cherry stabilizers for all their ALPS keycaps, so they often won't fit most ALPS boards.

It's a bit of a mess, but I think I have it sorted out.



I thought the US charged VAT on imported items (for private citizens). Very interesting and probably something I should have known.

maybe somebody can jump in to clear that up for us non-US geekhackers ... as far as I know VAT in the US depends on state of seller and/or buyer.
import fees, duty, etc. are already paid by seller (e.g. MD), so a buyer from the US, who buys from as US based seller, doesn't have all this additional cost like us non-US buyers.

Keyboards shipped to the US are duty free items, and only pay State Tax (not VAT) and the % varies from state to state.



Matias, out of curiosity have you considered doing a limited run - maybe even for the GB - of Linear switches with a stiffer spring from the other switches and no dampening material or included tactile leaf?

This is actually fairly easy to do without a GB.  It's a simple matter of getting a set of Linear and a set of Click switches, opening them up, and swapping out the appropriate parts.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Thu, 08 June 2017, 19:55:23

I've received the balance bar samples I mentioned in my previous post, and the results are good!

In the photos...


It's a little complicated but everything works.  :-)



[attachimg=1]



[attachimg=2]



[attachimg=3]



[attachimg=4]


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 09 June 2017, 18:01:45

I've received the balance bar samples I mentioned in my previous post, and the results are good!

In the photos...

Jeez, nice pics. I like the heavy bars. Not the paperclip size crap we see sometimes.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Sat, 10 June 2017, 19:39:17

I've received the balance bar samples I mentioned in my previous post, and the results are good!

In the photos...

Jeez, nice pics. I like the heavy bars. Not the paperclip size crap we see sometimes.


Thanks -- they're stainless steel.

The Cherry one is (non-stainless) steel, that I pulled off some random Cherry board at some point.

Bottom line...  with this approach, you can make a single PCB and mounting plate that works for both ALPS and Cherry, using the same stabilizers.  All you need is the right size balance bars (which we will provide) for the switch type you're using. 


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: geniekid on Thu, 19 October 2017, 07:27:57
Any status updates? ;D
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Mon, 23 October 2017, 19:32:18
Any status updates? ;D

Yeah cause last time hopes went up when we were told we had good chances to see our orders in 2017...  At the pace this thread is going, there is not much left of 2017.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: euphxenos on Mon, 23 October 2017, 22:27:40
On the Matias website, it says, "Current estimate is that design and tooling will be finalized in Spring 2018, and production will occur in Fall 2018."

https://matias.store/products/60-keyboard

So at some point a few months ago, it slipped out a year.  I'm curious about what still needs to be done that'll take another year, since the only thing I think we've seen posted was about testing the balance bar and stabilizer spacing some more and selecting plastic colors for the keycaps (which doesn't sound like a year's worth of delay to me).  That was posted back in August over here:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60268.msg2474042#msg2474042
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Tue, 24 October 2017, 03:15:22
Thanks for the questions.  I'm in China now and will be for another 4 weeks...

Yes, the balance bar stuff is sorted out.  The laserable PBT process is also sorted out.  We have the PBT material on order, and I'm hoping to have production started on black PBT keycap before I go back.  They're still working on colour matching the white PBT.

Once the white PBT is colour matched, we'll be doing Light Gray and Dark Gray (so 4 colour options to start).

We're also testing a few approaches for making the switches hot-swappable.  This makes it easy to change the switches without damaging the PCB -- for example, if you want to swap out Clicky switches for Quiet Click switches.  Of course, the option to solder will still remain.

I'll be posting more updates as things develop (during the 4 weeks I'm in China).
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Wed, 25 October 2017, 20:17:03
So now we are pushing deep into 2018.

Sigh... unzip :-(
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Luminair on Sat, 04 November 2017, 21:10:10
Thanks for the questions.  I'm in China now and will be for another 4 weeks...

Yes, the balance bar stuff is sorted out.  The laserable PBT process is also sorted out.  We have the PBT material on order, and I'm hoping to have production started on black PBT keycap before I go back.  They're still working on colour matching the white PBT.

Once the white PBT is colour matched, we'll be doing Light Gray and Dark Gray (so 4 colour options to start).

We're also testing a few approaches for making the switches hot-swappable.  This makes it easy to change the switches without damaging the PCB -- for example, if you want to swap out Clicky switches for Quiet Click switches.  Of course, the option to solder will still remain.

I'll be posting more updates as things develop (during the 4 weeks I'm in China).

Great update! Good luck while you're there!
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Meyvn on Wed, 08 November 2017, 16:05:38
I think given the refusal to answer, we have to assume the case, PCB and plate are still in the beginning development stages at best. Given the pace so far even Fall 2018 is starting to sound suspect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Wed, 08 November 2017, 18:27:13
Time for another update.  Thanks to all those who have patiently waited...

Weve now chosen a dye sub vendor that were satisfied can handle that aspect of this project, in the quantities needed.  Weve been experimenting with some other methods of doing dye sub, that allow colours on black PBT, but I fear that may be a rabbit hole even deeper than lasering on black PBT, so weve suspended those efforts.

Well be using Laserable PBT for black keycaps and dye sub will be available for lighter shades.

Weve also gotten samples done of a removable version of our switches.  They employ a coiled copper spring design.  See attached photo.  This will allow you to swap out the switches, without risk of destroying the PCB in the de-soldering process.


[attachimg=1]


I think given the refusal to answer, we have to assume the case, PCB and plate are still in the beginning development stages at best. Given the pace so far even Fall 2018 is starting to sound suspect.

Weve done several plates already and have a 3D drawing of the case completed (though it may change).  We also did a preliminary PCB design, but it will likely change.

Ive mentioned this before and it bears repeating... This is not a normal group buy.  Its a skunk works project that were making available to the public.  New things that were developing will appear first in the 60% keyboard.  Some of those things I can update you on (and will continue to), but there are some other things that were not prepared to announce yet, so I cant update you on those.

As mentioned previously, we are happy to offer refunds to anyone who is not able to wait.  Thanks again to all who are participating in this group buy.  Let me know if there are any other questions.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: dante on Sat, 11 November 2017, 09:17:27
I think given the refusal to answer, we have to assume the case, PCB and plate are still in the beginning development stages at best. Given the pace so far even Fall 2018 is starting to sound suspect.

I'm sure the delay so far and into the near future is to make sure the retooled switches are going to stay working.  I imagine the challenge just isn't getting the factory to do a good job but to continue doing it.

Matias has bigger balls than I do.  If you can't get the factory to adhere to quality standards I can't imagine the nightmare of moving the existing tooling to another factory - even if it they would allow it.  I suspect this has kept Matias up at night on more than one occasion. :(
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Mon, 13 November 2017, 08:37:27
Ive mentioned this before and it bears repeating... This is not a normal group buy.

Maybe to others but not that often in this thread (if not none) especially at the early stages.
(I didn't reread the whole thread carefully, it's depressing)

Getting a refund after all this time will not make me feel better. I'm a faithful Matias customer, I still recommend your boards.
But this whole group buy thing is a deception. It was my first participation at such project and certainly going to be my last.

The lost is more on those who will come up next with some interesting ideas. I'll never commit again for a first batch. Maybe for a second, if the first one went as the people were told at the beginning.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: AKmalamute on Wed, 18 July 2018, 21:55:07
Are there very many of us left? If I recall I just wanted a couple of bare boards, so the keycap thing might not even affect me. Although I'm not sure where I might have saved the receipt, and have changed "primary" email address a few times too.

Hoping this thing actually finishes.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Thu, 19 July 2018, 07:21:23
Are there very many of us left? If I recall I just wanted a couple of bare boards, so the keycap thing might not even affect me. Although I'm not sure where I might have saved the receipt, and have changed "primary" email address a few times too.

Hoping this thing actually finishes.


It will.  I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised with the final result.

Should be done by the end of the year.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Wed, 25 July 2018, 20:24:03
It will.  I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised with the final result.

Should be done by the end of the year.

What are the odds of typing on our orders in 2018?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Thu, 26 July 2018, 00:01:15
It will.  I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised with the final result.

Should be done by the end of the year.

What are the odds of typing on our orders in 2018?



Very good odds.


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 26 July 2018, 10:20:17
I asked a long time ago I think, but will you have PBT keys available for the Pro keyboards? And further, will you have PBT keys available for a "standard" 108-key board?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Thu, 26 July 2018, 10:56:58
I asked a long time ago I think, but will you have PBT keys available for the Pro keyboards? And further, will you have PBT keys available for a "standard" 108-key board?


Yes, the keysets will include all standard caps + the special ones used on the Ergo Pro and 60%.

For more details, see this post...

https://geekhack.org/?topic=60268.msg2577384#msg2577384 (https://geekhack.org/?topic=60268.msg2577384#msg2577384)


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 07 September 2018, 17:13:06
@Matias, What are the differences between the Matias 60% offered on Massdrop and the one we are hoping to get?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/v60-matias-mini-keyboard?utm_placement=1&referer=DEZF5G&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated%20Daily%20Promotional%202018-09-04&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily%20Promotional&utm_content=1536056419952.559388503557309279304735 (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/v60-matias-mini-keyboard?utm_placement=1&referer=DEZF5G&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated%20Daily%20Promotional%202018-09-04&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily%20Promotional&utm_content=1536056419952.559388503557309279304735)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 08 September 2018, 09:38:13
The one on Massdrop is a KBP keyboard and isn't made by matias. The layouts are completely different.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Mon, 10 September 2018, 17:29:37
 
The one on Massdrop is a KBP keyboard and isn't made by matias. The layouts are completely different.

Thanks :-)
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 19 October 2018, 20:54:24
Thread Started 4 years ago... on: Mon, 10 November 2014, 09:08:48
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: 9x6 on Mon, 22 October 2018, 03:45:11
For what's it's worth, over in another topic:

Has there been any progress on this at all this year?  There were a couple of posts earlier this year stating that the black keycaps had gone into production.  Did any actually get produced?  I still don't see PBT keycap sets listed on your web site.  Aside from the keycaps, has there been any progress at all on the keyboard this year?

Yes, there's been quite a bit of progress on the keyboard and but few stalls on the keycaps...

The aluminum case and PCB are essentially done, after a few iterations during my last trip to China (a few months ago).  The keycap jig is also done.

Our injection vendor had some problems getting the PBT a consistent shade of black.  We had to coordinate with the material vendor to get it resolved.  I'm going again next month, to (hopefully) finalize things so keycap production can start.  I'm sorry this has gone on so long.  We developed a new process and basically hit every pothole on the road, before getting to the finished product.  I'm very happy with the final result, but wish it hadn't taken so long.

Let me know if you have any other questions...
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 10 November 2018, 08:18:28
@Matias: "Let me know if you have any other questions..."

Here's a suggestion: How about a bonus free keyboard like a quiet pro on top of the 60% for all of us who sent you money for this 4 years ago?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:03:35
And there goes another year. Seriously hoping 2019 will be the one.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Wed, 23 January 2019, 00:03:18
And there goes another year. Seriously hoping 2019 will be the one.


Me too!

Really excited about what we have brewing.  Looking forward to finally shipping it.


Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Wed, 13 March 2019, 12:03:36
Really excited about what we have brewing.  Looking forward to finally shipping it.

How about an update to let us know what we are waiting for?

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: stbtrax on Fri, 26 April 2019, 22:05:35
is there an update of how many more years?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: aphoid on Wed, 08 May 2019, 11:31:35
I emailed them a couple months ago to ask about status and whether the keys would be PBT or not, and their response on March 18 was:

Quote
Yes, we've reached the PBT upgrade threshold. [...] Regarding updates, we are finalizing PBT keycap design now, and then attention will turn to other aspects of the keyboard engineering. So, we are still many months away from production, but progress is being made.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 21 May 2019, 08:14:35
I emailed them a couple months ago to ask about status and whether the keys would be PBT or not, and their response on March 18 was:
Quote
Yes, we've reached the PBT upgrade threshold. [...] Regarding updates, we are finalizing PBT keycap design now, and then attention will turn to other aspects of the keyboard engineering. So, we are still many months away from production, but progress is being made.

PBT upgrade have been reached since quite a while. Then it was the tooling then I don't know.

This GB started in 2014, we're about to celebrate our 5th years of waiting.
That's it for me. I got a refund. And with it, I forfeited my right to b!tch about the project.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: tuananh_bkk on Sat, 08 June 2019, 05:06:37
is it a good time to join the project now? =))
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Sun, 09 June 2019, 01:59:49
is it a good time to join the project now? =))

You're welcome any time.  :-)

I'm hoping to finish it this year.

The keycaps are almost ready.  We have 2 PBT vendors working on perfecting the material formula.  Both are very close.

I'm going to China again later this month.

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Applet on Wed, 12 June 2019, 03:56:57
is it a good time to join the project now? =))

You're welcome any time.  :-)

I'm hoping to finish it this year.

The keycaps are almost ready.  We have 2 PBT vendors working on perfecting the material formula.  Both are very close.

I'm going to China again later this month.
Very excited for the PBT keycaps  ;D
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: aphoid on Mon, 17 June 2019, 07:56:17
I emailed this in, but I would love an option to have a split space bar, if possible. 
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: AKmalamute on Tue, 18 June 2019, 12:11:19
I emailed this in,

While I would too, feature creep on an already-much-overdue group buy is a bad idea.
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: aphoid on Tue, 20 August 2019, 13:50:02
I note that the Matias store page for this (https://matias.store/collections/mechanical-keyboards/products/60-keyboard (https://matias.store/collections/mechanical-keyboards/products/60-keyboard)) is now updated and specifically says that all the caps will be PBT, but the general info page isn't updated (http://matias.ca/60/pc/ (http://matias.ca/60/pc/)).
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: geniekid on Fri, 06 December 2019, 09:25:34
How's it going on this?
Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: geniekid on Fri, 07 February 2020, 16:30:06
Is there a better place to get updates on this project?  :)

Title: Re: Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy
Post by: Matias on Sun, 09 February 2020, 19:34:31
I emailed this in, but I would love an option to have a split space bar, if possible. 

Unfortunately, no space for a split Spacebar, since it's 4.5u and the next size down is 2.5u.


How's it going on this?

Is there a better place to get updates on this project?  :)

Yes, this is the best place for updates.

China is a little occupied at the moment, so there likely won't be more updates until things there stabilize.

We're considering adding programmability, since we have code for that now.  I still need to figure out how best to handle it.

Thanks again to everyone still patiently waiting.