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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: Tshort on Wed, 29 March 2017, 18:10:53

Title: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Tshort on Wed, 29 March 2017, 18:10:53
I've designed a fork of the Dactyl keyboard by Matt Adereth with the thumb cluster from the ManuForm keyboard by jeffgran. I'm quite happy with it so far. Matt's Clojure code for generating the 3D model is really cool. With this fork, you can change the number of rows and columns pretty easily. Here's the 40% version I made:

(http://i.imgur.com/LdjEhrR.jpg)

Here's the link to my Dactyl fork:

https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard

I adapted firmware from the Let's Split QMK firmware here:

https://github.com/tshort/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/dactyl-manuform

This firmware allows you to use each half independently or together, and either side can be master.

In the Clojure code that generates the 3D model, you can also adjust the tenting, column offsets, and other parameters.

On one half, I wired this up using the standard method of wiring rows using the diode leads. I'm not great at soldering, so this took me a long time, and it was frustrating. On the second half, I used strips of 1/4-inch copper tape for columns and stripboard as the main row connection and support. The cut pieces of stripboard were particularly nice to use. With these strips presoldered and glued down, soldering is much nicer with one end of the diodes held down.

(http://i.imgur.com/JOm5ElP.jpg)

For more build pictures, see here:

http://imgur.com/a/v9eIO


The keyboard is quite nice to type on. I use a layout similar to my Atreus, so I don't have to adapt much.

The main glitches I still have to work out are (1) warping prints and (2) weak USB connection on the Arduino Pro Micros I used as controllers. I'm using 3D printers at a local Makerspace. I've had the most luck with a MakerBot. It's warping, though. This has led to failed prints. Even on my good prints, the warping at corners shows up. In one case, I had to adapt a connector to make it fit to account for the warping. A printing guru at the Makerspace suggested trying an upside down print. I haven't gotten a good 60% print yet, so I'll try that soon.

For the USB controller issue, I'll probably try to design a female USB connector into the keyboard frame and jumper that to the Arduino Pro Micro. There's plenty of room for that, and those should be easy solder joints.

On Shapeways, if you print the 40% version in their cheapest plastic (PLA), it's only $34 to print one side, so it's not bad if you want to try the ergonomic layout and thumb cluster.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: lkong on Tue, 11 April 2017, 23:56:28
This is beautiful! I want to build another one now.
But I still remember the time I spent soldering them keys in those tiny spaces.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: AMongoose on Thu, 13 April 2017, 04:47:14
Are those G20 caps? looks pretty good with the "bowl" profile. Do you miss sculpted key tops?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: jeffgran on Sat, 13 May 2017, 21:32:37
Just seeing this thread now. Dude! That is awesome!

I had always wanted the ManuForm to be purely generated by code but couldn't figure out a good way to do it. I will have to look at the clojure code and see how it is implemented. How did you get my thumb cluster in there, did you implement it in clojure and sorta "patch it in"?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: bruceme on Fri, 09 June 2017, 16:38:11
I built one, case printed on Thingiverse for $29 delivered, 50 cherry browns for $25, key caps off ebay for $25.  Wired it up and I'm fiddling with wiring and mappings now.  But it went really well and I will post pictures.  The case didn't print very cleanly (sloppy printer) and I had to whittle out most of the key holes.  But the design is very solid and I like it so far.  Once I'm happy with the mapping I'll post a review at some point as well.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Tshort on Thu, 15 June 2017, 21:20:14
Just seeing this thread now. Dude! That is awesome!

I had always wanted the ManuForm to be purely generated by code but couldn't figure out a good way to do it. I will have to look at the clojure code and see how it is implemented. How did you get my thumb cluster in there, did you implement it in clojure and sorta "patch it in"?
"Patch it in" is a good explanation. I measured off of your model to get coordinates.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: TheGlyph on Thu, 15 June 2017, 22:24:47
This is way cool! The unique shape immediately makes me want to CNC a wooden one. If you still like it after sorting all the mappings out you should hit me up and we can explore a potential collaboration opportunity  :)
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Tshort on Fri, 16 June 2017, 18:27:10
This is way cool! The unique shape immediately makes me want to CNC a wooden one. If you still like it after sorting all the mappings out you should hit me up and we can explore a potential collaboration opportunity  :)
A wooden CNC version would be awesome. It might be a tricky cut.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: bruceme on Wed, 28 June 2017, 10:24:00
So here's my "real world" review...

My background... I'm a keyboard geek, I love thumb-boards like the Kinesis Advantage, I've built an ErgoDox and I immediately fell in love with this keyboard. So, I built one.

The build follow-up.  See my earlier comment on the build above.  One small issue since... the magnet wire doesn't strip cleanly (insulation sludge spoils the joint) with a hot solder iron and several of my joints have failed, I had to re-solder at a higher heat, seems ok now.  Obviously nothing to do with the design, that's on me, just letting others know.

On the firmware... it totally rocks.  I really love the multi-use keys and the way you can have a primary momentary function and a secondary held-key function.  That is invaluable and really makes a 4x5 layout even practical at all.  One thing I learned mid-way, once you've initially loaded the firmware on both controllers, it auto-updates the slave controller on reprogramming, also... there's function+Q resets the controller for reprogramming, both are super time saver if you're iterating on a mapping!

On the layout... the stock layout wasn't for me, so as-is the beauty of open-source, I created my own which is based on the kinesis layout with developer keys in the extended/lower thumbs.  I also added Colemak alternate layer, it's needed as the ';' is not in the standard pinky key on the Dactyl.  I also did a hold-mapping of "Z" with shift because I couldn't stop hitting it to uppercase.

Learning... I transitioned from Kinesis to this 4x5 Dactyle Manuform effortlessly.  The hangups are what you'd think... symbols and F-keys.  But I know where 80% are including '%' ... hehe. 

What's good...  It's super compact and goes anywhere. It's very comfortable, very similar to the Kinesis, it doesn't have a palm rest, but you're not supposed to rest your palms either.
The firmware totally totally rocks, best I've ever seen
I like the hardware dual Pro Micros is so much easier than trying to figure out a IO expander

What to improve... not much honestly.  A quirk of the dual-function key mapping is that keys you like to repeat (e.g. backspace) need to be double tapped and held to do this should you dual-map them.  It is honestly a bit of a pain to code with as the symbols are all over the place.  I may try building the next size up to see if that helps.

I published a pull request for my 4x5 alternate layout change and Tom accepted it right away.   I've been really happy and I'd tell anyone that likes this style of keyboard to do it.

and by the way... this entire post was typed using my 4x5 Dactyl Manuform
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: D4vidH4mm3r on Tue, 25 July 2017, 14:29:20
This keyboard looks awesome!

I am trying to build the 5x6 version of it - so far I have printed and kind-of wired the right side. I am unfortunately a keyboard-building newbie. Do you have any hints on how to adapt the wiring for 5x6? I am currently using the build pictures and the wiring diagram on github for reference, but my attempts to extrapolate to 5x6 have not yet succeeded (I can only type "f" right now).

Sorry for the hassle. Maybe I should just have gone for 4x5 for the practice.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Tshort on Sat, 29 July 2017, 07:40:14
I've printed a half of a 5x6, but I haven't wired it, yet. In theory, the wiring should be very similar to the 4x5 version. You just wire the extra row and the extra column the same. You wire in diodes the same along rows and connect columns directly. Then, connecting the columns and rows to the ProMicro is just a little different. In the following figure, note where it says "skips pin 4" and "skips pin A1" for the left side. Instead of skipping, you attach the extra rows and columns to those pins.

If you post close-up pictures of what you've got, I might be able to help debug. Does only the "f" key work, or does it produce "f" for other keys?

The QMK software should be set up for 5x6, but no one's tried it, so there might be bugs.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: D4vidH4mm3r on Sat, 05 August 2017, 10:38:13
Thank you a lot for the help. I tried following the instructions and though I have obviously not managed to do so correctly yet, there is some slight improvement: now the left-most column works, giving keycodes 9 through 14 from top to the second-last thumb button on the left.

Please excuse the sloppy wiring - I have not yet developed finesse.

Very delayed update: Thanks a lot for the row-driven wiring diagram. I found it much easier to follow. I have now for some months had a completed keyboard to type on (not quite every day though) and it is both fast and pleasant. I have started resenting staggered rows now.  ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/aEmNPjb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fAX8C24.jpg)
https://imgur.com/a/9H939 (https://imgur.com/a/9H939)
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Tshort on Sat, 05 August 2017, 18:16:45
I think you are very close! The main problem is that the connecting wires you have to the rows are in the wrong place. Each of these should attach to the common point where the diodes all come together. You have them on the wrong side of the diode at the end. Also, the diode at point A1 on your photo is backward.

Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: drawnwren on Mon, 04 September 2017, 00:51:23
It's been a while since you posted this. I'm curious if you have any updates. Do you type on it frequently? How do you feel about the design vs the flat thumb clusters? I'm debating building it, but would love to hear how it aged.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Tshort on Mon, 04 September 2017, 06:01:07
I still use the 40% version as my main keyboard. No big complaints. I like the thumb cluster.

I may try a larger version to see how I like that.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Sat, 16 September 2017, 19:08:52
Thank you Tshort, I built two copies of this keyboard.
One with Gateron browns (the black one), another with Oatemu blues (the silver one).
Both with Teensies and modified Ergodox EZ layout from QMK project.
The Oatemu switches and diodes for the silver one were salvaged from a Tomoko TKL keyoard, from which I took the caps for the black one earlier.

I used the black one at work for a few weeks now.
Built another to use home.
Since I ran out of other switches I de-soldered the Tomoko and used its parts and the cable.
Used cat5 wires for the matrix, soft wires from a broken HDMI cable for the ICs.

Had to secure the Outemu switches with hot glue, their bodies differ from the Cherry MX and the clones.
I installed the 90 degrees rotated and set the with the glue.
Not some much hassle, just some more time needed for that.
Did not need to do that for Gaterons.

Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Tshort on Sun, 17 September 2017, 19:33:23
Cool. Thanks for sharing! Do you like those keycaps with this shape? (I've been thinking of trying different keycaps.) -Tom
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Sun, 17 September 2017, 21:03:25
Thank you again Tom for sharing your models.
I tried to modify Matt Adereth's too, to extrude the bottom portion down, so no separate legs would be sticking out.
I kinda succeeded in printing them, but then I saw yours.
Luckily I had not managed to use the switches and ICs at that moment.

Do you like those keycaps with this shape? (I've been thinking of trying different keycaps.)

Yes, they both are ok for me.
Mind they are just some noname caps sets from Aliexpress, nothing fancy.

The black ones are a bit too polished, the fingers tend to slip off a bit when I use it lazily.
But once I start typing that becomes practically unnoticeable.
Better say it is not as pleasant to touch then the white set, functionally they are just fine, may be a bit lighter and feel cheaper.

I tried to print caps with wider and flatter top, similarly to what you have in your pictures.
It turned out too rough on the top surface, really scratching my fingertips.
Also they didn't hold on the stems well. Remove it once and it won't stay fixed anymore.
May be it because the PLA I used, didn't try the ABS yet.
The result was ugly anyway, so I preferred the cheapest options from China.

Alex
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: vvp on Mon, 18 September 2017, 03:01:10
I tried to print caps with wider and flatter top, similarly to what you have in your pictures.
It turned out too rough on the top surface, really scratching my fingertips.
Also they didn't hold on the stems well. Remove it once and it won't stay fixed anymore.
May be it because the PLA I used, didn't try the ABS yet.
Print with ABS. "Paint" with acetone (it will smooth them). Can be inserted on a switch and removed many times.
Of course, getting some keycaps from a shop is easier. I would recommend printing only the special shapes you cannot get in a retail shop.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Mon, 18 September 2017, 08:27:54
Thanks, will try.

Of course, getting some keycaps from a shop is easier. I would recommend printing only the special shapes you cannot get in a retail shop.

So I figured. May try to do that for the steno version.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Cerasis on Wed, 24 January 2018, 07:55:09
I'm not quite sure about necro'ing threads, but i'm interested in building this board.  :D

Unfortunately though it'll take me a lot of effort to get myself some rj9 connectors. Would a usb-mini breakout work? i can get those quite easily and i have an extra cable for it too :)

I'd like to keep it as local as possible, though it might not be possible with the heat-set inserts, which i'll probably source from overseas.


Really interested in trying out an keyboard without the straight plate, was initially interested in just a normal dactyl but i think i would prefer the thumb cluster on this one in particular.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Wed, 24 January 2018, 12:20:31
Any connector with enough contacts should do.
The connection speed is too low to be affected by that.

I've just finished another copy with the halves connected by an HDMI cable.
The HDMI connectors fit into the slots just fine.
Inside it is a Planck on a single ProMicro unit.
HDMI has 19 wires, I only needed 10.
 
The beauty of this model is that you can remove the unnecessary parts from it, thus reducing the time to print.
I took out the teensy holder and the wire posts.

Love this board, all of them I built.
 
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: obviouslygene on Wed, 24 January 2018, 20:18:44
I am looking to build one of these.
What's the difference between the pro micro and the teensy?
Currently looking to print the body.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Wed, 24 January 2018, 20:34:28
For me it primarily defines which of QMK builds could put in there.
Planck uses ProMicro, ErgoDox - Teensy.
Other than that - does not really matter to me.
May be they could be replaced, haven't got that far yet.

ProMicro clones are cheaper, if that's is important, but the clones could be shipped without the bootloader.
The original ones should be fine, but almost as expensive as Teensy.

IIRC Teensy has a couple more pins, enough to cover more keys, so each key may be programmed separately.
May be I am wrong though.

With ProMicro it is only 16 pins for data.
So for the 6x4 layout there are two options:
- use two of them, one for each half, like in Let's Split,
- or use only one for 12x4 matrix and duplicate/repeat some of the keys in the hardware.



Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: obviouslygene on Thu, 25 January 2018, 03:36:21
I am looking to print the cases but in Singapore the prices are insane for 3D printing services.
Would anyone be able to help me print them for a reasonable fee?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Mon, 05 March 2018, 18:55:38
I am looking to print the cases but in Singapore the prices are insane for 3D printing services.
Would anyone be able to help me print them for a reasonable fee?
how much was it? and what material?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Mon, 05 March 2018, 20:04:52
is the thumb cluster customizable? I'm thinking of 1 row instead of a cluster. Is it possible?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 20:11:28
IMO you'd need to edit the .clj file for that.
The thumb cluster parameters control its location related to the base keys.
It could be moved around, but not modify the number of keys or their position.

Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Tue, 06 March 2018, 01:13:45
how much infill should I use for PLA printing?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: obviouslygene on Tue, 06 March 2018, 03:11:51
I am looking to print the cases but in Singapore the prices are insane for 3D printing services.
Would anyone be able to help me print them for a reasonable fee?
how much was it? and what material?

ak66666 helped me out here so if you would like you can ask him.
3D printing places quoted me 570 PER SIDE.
****ing ripoff.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: vvp on Tue, 06 March 2018, 04:49:03
3D printing places quoted me 570 PER SIDE.
****ing ripoff.
That seems way too much. Shapeways quoted me at about 300 for both sides of K80CS (which is slightly larger than Dactyl-ManuForm). That was four years ago. I doubt the prices went up.

Edit: Fix the price and time.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Tue, 06 March 2018, 08:21:27
how much infill should I use for PLA printing?

10-15-20 is more than enough.
Even 100% would be ok.
The walls are fairly thin, there are almost no internal cavities to fill.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Tue, 06 March 2018, 09:08:15
how much infill should I use for PLA printing?

10-15-20 is more than enough.
Even 100% would be ok.
The walls are fairly thin, there are almost no internal cavities to fill.

What's the optimal number, or a good enough %? A seller on 3dhub asks for this.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Tue, 06 March 2018, 09:51:24
For the case 10-15% percent is enough.
There are no voids to fill, not that much of free space.
I printed all of them with 10%.
All the gaps between the outer and inner shells were stitched together just fine.

For the bottom plate - 15-20% just to seal the cells nicely.

PS: sorry, I sent an incomplete message before.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Tue, 06 March 2018, 18:02:06
For the case 10-15% percent is enough.
There are no voids to fill, not that much of free space.
I printed all of them with 10%.
All the gaps between the outer and inner shells were stitched together just fine.

For the bottom plate - 15-20% just to seal the cells nicely.

PS: sorry, I sent an incomplete message before.

Thanks for your help. I guess I will go with the default option 25% then
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: mustcode on Thu, 08 March 2018, 16:23:46
I'm thinking about building one with Alps. Anyone has an idea of how difficult would that be?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Fri, 09 March 2018, 10:02:41
Should be pretty easy.
If they fit the Cherry switch hole then no changes are needed.
If not then you have two options:
- either file them holes wider or affix the switch with the hot glue.
- or modify the Clojure code to have the hole for Alps. Luckily that is only one function/piece to modify.


Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: mustcode on Fri, 09 March 2018, 13:32:01
Should be pretty easy.
If they fit the Cherry switch hole then no changes are needed.
If not then you have two options:
- either file them holes wider or affix the switch with the hot glue.
- or modify the Clojure code to have the hole for Alps. Luckily that is only one function/piece to modify.
Thanks for the advice! I found these constants in the code after a quick glance:

(def keyswitch-height 14.4)
(def keyswitch-width 14.4)

I guess another project coming up for me!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: mustcode on Sat, 10 March 2018, 13:39:26
So, I think I successfully modified the code to make it fit Alps switch. I had to also adjust the "side-nub" and made it into something that an Alps switch can clip on to.
For those of you who are interested, first you need to adjust to switch size:

(def keyswitch-height 12.8 )
(def keyswitch-width 17) 

Notice that the width is a little wider than usual, that is to make room for the size nub. Here's the new side-nub code:

 side-nub (->> (binding [*fn* 30] (cylinder 0.8 keyswitch-height))
                      (rotate (/ π 2) [1 0 0])
                      (translate [(+ (/ keyswitch-width 2)) 0 3.2])
                      (hull (->> (cube 1.5 keyswitch-height 1.6)
                                 (translate [(+ (/ 1.5 2) (/ keyswitch-width 2))
                                             0
                                             3.2]))))

And that's it!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Sat, 10 March 2018, 17:10:45
That's great, I may build one with Matiases this way.

BTW, while you're at it - you may consider commenting out the wire posts and the Teensy holder.
They almost double the print time, yet have no use.
I had to remove them in the first print, then just modified the CLJ file.
It is somewhere near the end where the whole body is assembled.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: mustcode on Sat, 10 March 2018, 22:21:38
Oh, that is good to know. Thanks!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: jmg123 on Thu, 15 March 2018, 18:53:15
I decided to make one as my first ergo keyboard, but annoyingly 6 x 5 size is just too big for all my print beds, so I had to get it via 3DHubs. The only mods I made to the clj file were to stop autoscad generating stl files that had weird issues around the screw holes , RJ9 connector and USB connector, and ak66666's suggestion of removing the wire posts (clj changes here) (https://github.com/mcmadhatter/dactyl-keyboard).

(https://i.imgur.com/KezW7IK.jpg)

As I had some left over UV resin , I though I would also give this a go (https://hackaday.com/2018/03/08/3d-printering-print-smoothing-tests-with-uv-resin/)  - the picture above is pre-curing. Having cured it tonight I reckon that it is still going to need a bit of sanding before spray painting, can't decided between dark blue or satin black.

 I have a stack of Kailh BOX Burnt Oranges ready to go, wiring that lot up will be a boring evening. Haven't got any keycaps for it yet, might just stick something cheap and boring on there until I find some I like (and can afford). This weekend I'll cut the bottom plate out of some 6 mm clear polycarbonate that I have knocking around from my last project on my mpcnc. After I sent it off for printing I though it might be good to mod the clj to put the screw posts on the inside, with enough of a lip so that the bottom plate can be hidden internally, ah well , maybe I'll do a little 5x4 on one of my printers and try that out.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Sat, 17 March 2018, 08:43:03
any post curing pics?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: davkol on Sat, 17 March 2018, 08:55:04
Just spotted this build (https://imgur.com/a/8WPUd) (source (https://github.com/Chaotic-Entity/Dactyl-Manuform-6x6)) on Reddit.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: jmg123 on Mon, 19 March 2018, 01:04:27
any post curing pics?
I didnt unfortunately, after curing i still felt they needed a bit of sanding as there was still some lumoiness in places. 600/ 800 grit started taking off the cured resin, so in the end i decided to sand the whole lot of and us a sanding /filler primer combination.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Mon, 19 March 2018, 09:17:10
any post curing pics?
I didnt unfortunately, after curing i still felt they needed a bit of sanding as there was still some lumoiness in places. 600/ 800 grit started taking off the cured resin, so in the end i decided to sand the whole lot of and us a sanding /filler primer combination.

I plan to first sand with 240 - 400 - 800, and then coat with resin, or maybe just sand it.
are you going to coat with resin after sanding?

Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: jmg123 on Mon, 19 March 2018, 13:40:44

I plan to first sand with 240 - 400 - 800, and then coat with resin, or maybe just sand it.
are you going to coat with resin after sanding?

I went down the filler primer route in the end, as I needed some filler primer for another job. I am also making a macro pad using a lets split pcb, so for that i plan to print the case and try again with sanding and then resin. Also that case will be pretty much 90 degree angles so the sanding will be less of a chore.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: jmg123 on Fri, 23 March 2018, 13:39:22
The left side is now done, I used Kailh box burnt orange switches, and some really cheap key caps from banggood. Tested with qmk, but I might swap it over to a port of the animus firmware from unikeyboard.io, just so that it is easier to configure.

I think i might get some of my own red dwarf (uk tv show) inspired keycaps printed, using the font from the show and a few appropriate novelties. What are uv peinted abs keycaps like? Does the printing wear off quickly?

Is there any advantage to having the left and right side independently plugged in via usb?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: flac.head on Wed, 28 March 2018, 07:39:10
Is this easy to modify for kailh's low-profile switches? Looks like this would be my perfect board then, but I have no idea where to start!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: mustcode on Sun, 08 April 2018, 16:21:39
Finally finished my Alps build :D
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Tue, 10 April 2018, 21:30:59
Finally finished my Alps build :D
What material is this? it looks very smooth.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: mustcode on Tue, 10 April 2018, 22:29:06
Somos NeXt @ 100nm layer. It is quite smooth indeed.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Wed, 11 April 2018, 02:08:38
The thumb cluster seems to be optimized for 1.5u or 2u keys. Anyone modified it to be optimized for all 1u?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Thu, 12 April 2018, 06:59:00
I've really small hands and I'm changing the thumb cluster to https://imgur.com/a/xxoIP
STL attached
I'll probably print this in 1 week.

Will it work? What're your thoughts?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: vvp on Thu, 12 April 2018, 11:16:04
Looks like switches will fit there. Just try it and you will see. If you are afraid to print it directly then try first on a modeling clay.

All manuform thumb clusters are too low relative to the keywell from my point of view. My thumbs do not extend that low easily. My natural thumb position is higher than the tip of my bent pointing finger. It is hard for me to go much lower with my thumb. Therefore Maltron/Kinesis thumb cluster shape is better for me.
But many people like them and Oobly has a nice version of it too:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48176.msg1049331#msg1049331
I can imagine using Oobly's thumb cluster but positioned a bit higher ... probably. It might need low profile switches there.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Thu, 12 April 2018, 20:40:23
I've removed one key, and move the other keys up.
Would the thumb cluster in my version too high?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: vvp on Fri, 13 April 2018, 01:31:49
Put switches (with keycaps) on modeling clay and test how well it fits your hands. That is the best way to find out how the switch positions suit you.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: crystalhand on Fri, 13 April 2018, 07:35:52
The beauty of 3d printers is the ability to iterate and improve.  I have printed more tests than I care to admit on my quest to find a solid way to mount outemu/box switch mounts for the dactyl/maniform. 
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: vvp on Fri, 13 April 2018, 08:22:32
I have printed a way too many prototypes too. But things are not that simple when one needs to pay a commercial service for each iteration.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Fri, 13 April 2018, 08:25:19
What's your process on using molding clays?
I'm thinking of using 5mm blocks for prototyping.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Thu, 19 April 2018, 05:08:43
what screws / nuts should I use?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 07:17:59
I've really small hands and I'm changing the thumb cluster to https://imgur.com/a/xxoIP
STL attached
I'll probably print this in 1 week.

Will it work? What're your thoughts?

Looks good, those two innermost keys in the thumbcluster are barely used anyway. Simply too far, the hand needs to be moved instead of a short twist.
Would you share the clojure file as well please?
I'd tent it a bit more, actually twice the angle, as I did in the latest copies.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: crystalhand on Thu, 19 April 2018, 07:21:01
I have printed a way too many prototypes too. But things are not that simple when one needs to pay a commercial service for each iteration.

Who are you currently using for your prototypes?  I run a fairly small scale 3d keyboard case sidebusiness.  Hit me up if you have any interest, I am sure I can do it for cheaper than you are currently paying.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: vvp on Thu, 19 April 2018, 16:02:06
Who are you currently using for your prototypes?
I have a 3D printer in the next room. No real need to play with modeling clay for me.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Fri, 20 April 2018, 18:26:32

Would you share the clojure file as well please?

Code released on https://github.com/l4u/dactyl-manuform-mini-keyboard
STL and plate (ai) can be found on https://github.com/l4u/dactyl-manuform-mini-keyboard/releases
I'm printing them, so I cannot confirm if it works or not.
There's a lot of hard coded numbers for prototyping. I've only generated 4x5.

Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Fri, 20 April 2018, 20:06:36
I'd tent it a bit more, actually twice the angle, as I did in the latest copies.
Any photos / model files?  :)
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Sat, 21 April 2018, 09:11:03
I'd tent it a bit more, actually twice the angle, as I did in the latest copies.
Any photos / model files?  :)

Sure, please find them here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2872180

That yellow case is the latest version.
I left a complete one at work, so no pictures until next week.

IIRC The white one in the pictures is the one generated with the default settings.
Plus it has a 6mm sole plate, so it is a bit thicker.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: kamegami on Thu, 26 April 2018, 11:55:00
I started my own Dactyl-Manuform build. I wanted to report that the slicer Cura has a new Tree Support feature. In my testing Tree Supports work particularly well with the Dactyl-Manuform, significantly saving on filament and print time.

A single side 5x6 (tilt increased to 4) without supports is about 72g.
Grid Supports: 147g
Triangle: 148g
Lines: 116g
Tree Supports: 109g

It also saves an estimated hour in print time over the Line supports. The supports also separated in one piece with zero effort, I didn't need to bring the knippers out.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Sat, 28 April 2018, 20:12:58
I'd tent it a bit more, actually twice the angle, as I did in the latest copies.
Any photos / model files?  :)

Sure, please find them here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2872180

That yellow case is the latest version.
I left a complete one at work, so no pictures until next week.

IIRC The white one in the pictures is the one generated with the default settings.
Plus it has a 6mm sole plate, so it is a bit thicker.
How did you generate the bottom plate?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Sat, 28 April 2018, 20:19:26
I get a slice of it in OpenSCAD with Projection command:
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSCAD_User_Manual/3D_to_2D_Projection
I.e. I load the SCAD file generated by Clojure into OpenSCAD, add that Projection command if front of all other text:
projection(cut=false) translate([0,0,-0.5])
Render it, then export the resulting flat figure it to DXF format, import that file into Autodesk 360 Fusion, press/pull it to a desired thickness, add holes for the screws and foot pads (which are just 0.5 mm deep holes with flat bottoms).
Export the results into STL.
PS. Autodesk Fusion is free for the non-commercial use.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: copper on Thu, 10 May 2018, 08:05:17
Hello everyone!

I just registered to tell you all that I will be building my own copy of this keyboard.

I will post progress here.  So far, I have printed the 6x6 version posted by Chaotic-Entity at github.  I am missing the bottom plates, and may print them as well.  I have my own 3d printer, so that is not an issue.  I also have sheets of policarbonate that could be cut as the bottom plate, but I don't have a CNC.  Because of this, I may try to print bottom plates. 

I will be posting details as I progress.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Fri, 11 May 2018, 00:43:08
So I'm interested in building one of these myself. However I'd like to make some changes to the layout, and I'm not exactly sure how to go about doing that. Essentially I'd like to add an inner column, and modify the outer columns to more closely resemble the ergodox layout (somewhat like this (https://i.imgur.com/LTjoLPV.png)). Seems like these changes would require more than tweaking the parameters at the top of the file. How should I go about modifying the clojure code to change the layout like this?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Mon, 14 May 2018, 15:47:19
Adding an inner column should require a change in the thumb cluster position.
Adding the outer column might require some changes in key positions, and tweaks for the walls depending on how you'd want it to look like.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Wed, 16 May 2018, 22:22:46
Adding an inner column should require a change in the thumb cluster position.
Adding the outer column might require some changes in key positions, and tweaks for the walls depending on how you'd want it to look like.

Moving the thumb cluster would mean you'd have to mess with the column offsets though, right? That and the I'd like the inner column to only have 3 keys. Seems like I'd have to define a column type with 3 keys, one with 1.5 width, and only use them for the first & last columns respectively. Then add the 5th row to the outer columns by adding it to the thumb cluster (since the 5th row in the 3rd and 4th columns are actually part of the code for the thumb cluster). Then move the walls to accommodate these changes to the columns. But since I'm unfamiliar with clojure code that's as far as I've gotten. How to accomplish those things is beyond me at the moment.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Sat, 02 June 2018, 22:05:43
So after a good amount of messing with the clojure code, I've finished modding the layout to conform more to the ergodox. If anyone wants I can share the clojure code itself, but it's just a bodge to get it to work with this specific layout, changing the number of rows or columns would most likely break it.

Edit: noticed a small error with one of the connectors, updated the .stl file.
Edit 2: Fixed the outer 1.5u column.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: mmmm on Tue, 05 June 2018, 23:07:09
I'd tent it a bit more, actually twice the angle, as I did in the latest copies.
Any photos / model files?  :)

Sure, please find them here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2872180 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2872180)

That yellow case is the latest version.
I left a complete one at work, so no pictures until next week.

IIRC The white one in the pictures is the one generated with the default settings.
Plus it has a 6mm sole plate, so it is a bit thicker.



ak66666, do you have a github repo or anywhere with the code changes for your latest version? I'd love to riff on it
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Tue, 12 June 2018, 03:05:33
So after a good amount of messing with the clojure code, I've finished modding the layout to conform more to the ergodox. If anyone wants I can share the clojure code itself, but it's just a bodge to get it to work with this specific layout, changing the number of rows or columns would most likely break it.

Edit: noticed a small error with one of the connectors, updated the .stl file.
it would be cool if you can share the clojure code!! how did you change the spacing for the pinky columns?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Tue, 12 June 2018, 03:32:02
it would be cool if you can share the clojure code!! how did you change the spacing for the pinky columns?

It was a couple of things I modified to get the column to be 1.5u wide. I'll attach the clojure code so you can see for yourself. By no means are my changes to the code the best/most efficient way to do it though (far from it).
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: galorin on Fri, 22 June 2018, 07:22:12
I seem to be having trouble getting the clojure to evaluate and regenerate a new set of SCAD files.  I am pulling from /abstracthat/dactyl-manuform master and with the OpenJDK it is producing errors about unmet dependencies if I remember correctly.  Before I go posting logs, is the repo working today?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ak66666 on Fri, 22 June 2018, 08:17:09

ak66666, do you have a github repo or anywhere with the code changes for your latest version? I'd love to riff on it

It is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ta8aok816smqgo5/AADhWZTSZm8MqsPJmsrqKbZIa?dl=0
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Fri, 22 June 2018, 09:38:22
I seem to be having trouble getting the clojure to evaluate and regenerate a new set of SCAD files.  I am pulling from /abstracthat/dactyl-manuform master and with the OpenJDK it is producing errors about unmet dependencies if I remember correctly.  Before I go posting logs, is the repo working today?


I used tshort's repo weeks ago and it was working.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: galorin on Mon, 02 July 2018, 10:23:23
I used tshort's repo weeks ago and it was working.

Got it.  It was my environment that was the problem, plus a few lines were commented out that shouldn't have been.  I now have my own fork that is compiling just fine.

Now I just need to get my printer to cooperate.  Had two 80% print failures so far, one was a full print with a layer shift, the other was thermal runaway after a soldered connection gave in to fatigue.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Wed, 04 July 2018, 17:17:21
Figured I may as well post this now that I've finished the build and typing on it. I'll have to fix the 1.5u outer column though, as they're very slightly off. (Fixed now, updated the .stl file in my previous post). Not really noticeable while typing at least.

I might modify the code to make the bottom row flat with an (inverted?) T arrow cluster. But that probably won't be anytime soon.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ErgoMacros on Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:36:37
Looking very fine! Congratulations!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: copper on Mon, 09 July 2018, 02:23:27
Work in progress...
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: annirak on Mon, 20 August 2018, 10:03:05
I started my own Dactyl-Manuform build. I wanted to report that the slicer Cura has a new Tree Support feature. In my testing Tree Supports work particularly well with the Dactyl-Manuform, significantly saving on filament and print time.

A single side 5x6 (tilt increased to 4) without supports is about 72g.
Grid Supports: 147g
Triangle: 148g
Lines: 116g
Tree Supports: 109g

It also saves an estimated hour in print time over the Line supports. The supports also separated in one piece with zero effort, I didn't need to bring the knippers out.

When I try running the 5x6 STL that's in git through Cura, with tree supports enabled, it says 210g. What settings are you using in Cura?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: geek128 on Tue, 04 September 2018, 19:15:32
what keycap profile works best with this? DSA? SA R3? or is it fine with sculpted SA, MT3 or Cherry, too?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Squarism on Wed, 28 November 2018, 00:42:48
I havent found any review of this/these keboards. Are you satisfied with yours? Complaints? Missing something? Angles properly chosen? Room for improvement? How does it compare to kenisis advantage? The latter having built in palm rest, do you miss that?

I've ordered stuff to be able to build one. Mainly to tackle hand stress I've felt lately. So hope it fills that purpose.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Dynamo on Tue, 25 December 2018, 22:48:35
Figured I may as well post this now that I've finished the build and typing on it. I'll have to fix the 1.5u outer column though, as they're very slightly off. (Fixed now, updated the .stl file in my previous post). Not really noticeable while typing at least.

I might modify the code to make the bottom row flat with an (inverted?) T arrow cluster. But that probably won't be anytime soon.

What did you think of your keyboard? Was it comfortable? I like the additional keys you put there, but I would prefer a reverse T-arrow cluster. Will you make this modification to the code? Otherwise, is it difficult to make these changes in closure? Also, was it difficult to program the keyboard? I am a total beginner in keyboard building so I have a lot to learn.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Squarism on Wed, 26 December 2018, 02:05:17
Found this interesting evolution of the dactyl manuform. DMOTE http://viktor.eikman.se/article/the-dmote/

I find the thumb cluster very appealing!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: impaktor on Wed, 26 December 2018, 08:49:47
what keycap profile works best with this? DSA? SA R3? or is it fine with sculpted SA, MT3 or Cherry, too?
Granted, the "normal" dactyl has different thumb cluster, but this is what adereth said:
Quote from:
Yes, that pic [github dactyl glamour-shot] is all Row 3 SA caps, but I use fully contoured on my personal build. [...] I use R1 - R4 for the top 4 rows, then flipped R1 for the bottom. I've used both R3 and R2/R4 for the 2u keys on the thumbs and everything from R1 - R3 for the 1u keys on the thumbs. That group buy doesn't have enough 2u keys.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Wed, 26 December 2018, 15:31:22
What did you think of your keyboard? Was it comfortable? I like the additional keys you put there, but I would prefer a reverse T-arrow cluster. Will you make this modification to the code? Otherwise, is it difficult to make these changes in closure? Also, was it difficult to program the keyboard? I am a total beginner in keyboard building so I have a lot to learn.

I've been using it since, it's quite comfortable. I've tried putting an arrow cluster on the bottom row, but it just looks like it'd get in the way of the palm. As for the coding, I'm sure there are some good resources out there for clojure to learn from, rather than just fiddling with it like I did. The github at the start of this thread and the qmk docs are good resources for how to compile & flash the board.

what keycap profile works best with this? DSA? SA R3? or is it fine with sculpted SA, MT3 or Cherry, too?

Having used sculpted SA and MT3, I greatly prefer the latter. The curved columns means there's little space between the tops of keycaps with SA. MT3 caps don't get in each others way near as much. The deeper dish is nice too.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Squarism on Sun, 20 January 2019, 01:16:29
Completed my build today. Im feeling hopeful it can replace my current daily driver (Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000)

Build log here (https://blahablala.wordpress.com/2019/01/19/dactyl-manuform-build-log/). More random reflections than something helpful.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: impaktor on Sun, 20 January 2019, 02:15:08
@Squarism thanks for nice write up, and congratulations on completed build!

1. Do you have a bottom plate on them, or the "guts" is held in place by the table surface?

2. What keycaps are those? DSA?

3. What switches are you using? I was planning on just regular Cherry MX Brown for my own build, as that's what I have in my Kinesis AD2. I know the keyboard expert Chyrosran hates them, and prefers Alps, but I really need silent switches (for office) with low weight (against hand pain), and MX mount (for best keycap compatibility). Advice?

4. If you're switching layout I'd advice to look into some more well developed iterations on Dvorak. If I would put in the effort of switching layout, I'd look into workman (http://"https://workmanlayout.org/").
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Squarism on Sun, 20 January 2019, 04:25:02
@Squarism thanks for nice write up, and congratulations on completed build!

1. Do you have a bottom plate on them, or the "guts" is held in place by the table surface?

2. What keycaps are those? DSA?

3. What switches are you using? I was planning on just regular Cherry MX Brown for my own build, as that's what I have in my Kinesis AD2. I know the keyboard expert Chyrosran hates them, and prefers Alps, but I really need silent switches (for office) with low weight (against hand pain), and MX mount (for best keycap compatibility). Advice?

4. If you're switching layout I'd advice to look into some more well developed iterations on Dvorak. If I would put in the effort of switching layout, I'd look into workman (http://"https://workmanlayout.org/").

1. I have plates. r/crystalhand did that too. Excellent work.
2. Nope, they are XDA.
3. Kailh Silver Speed (now added this and (2) to the build log post), Not sure I went right here. They are super sensitive. I notice i do involuntary presses of other keys, pressing a distant one.
4. Thanks for your suggestion. Yeah, maybe I should consider that too. As im doing 50/50 english/non english I assume neither is optimized for me. I figured Dvorak often comes preinstalled on win/linux. Being a bit more supported could give some freedom.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: impaktor on Wed, 23 January 2019, 08:39:36
By the way, does anyone know the pros/cons in suitability of printing material specifically for keyboards? E.g. I've heard people prefer aluminium plates instead of steel plates, as the latter are too stiff, but this question is specifically for 3D printing materials:

Adereth used nylon for his Dactyl, I wonder why? PLA is obviously the cheapest, but is it ideal for keyboards? Anyone compared how a PETG vs. PLA vs. Nylon printed keyboard case "feels" when in use?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: vvp on Wed, 23 January 2019, 14:18:40
I used ABS for my KATY keyboard.
I tried PLA but it is not good. It is too stiff and harder to post-process.
I did not try anything else. ABS was good enough.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Thu, 07 February 2019, 20:34:28
I've noticed that one of the 1u thumb caps would collide with the outer 1.5u switchplate. On the boards I've built so far I just removed a bit of material so it wouldn't hit. So I've modified the switchplate to stop the cap from hitting. I did a test print, and it seems to have done the job. The changes I made to the code were pretty minor, just adding a half "larger-plate" which didn't mirror the side bit, changing the thumb definition & the connectors to match.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: basie on Sat, 09 February 2019, 02:12:08
Hello, and thanks for all the work from various people that went into this. I'm just starting on my build.

I noticed after I'd soldered the columns on one side (without diodes) that the original Dactl uses diodes for columns, and the D-M uses diodes for rows. Is this because of the ProMicro vs Teensy difference? I bought a Teensy in the end, so... I guess I'm wondering if I should undo the columns I've done and repeat the process using diodes instead. Or doesn't it matter?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: impaktor on Sat, 09 February 2019, 03:03:35
Hi @basie, it shouldn't matter, as long as you wire it into the microcontroller correctly, and you reflect that in the firmware, is at least how I've understood it.

I hope the following quote helps:

"There are two options for soldering the diodes, all heading towards the
switch or all heading away from the switch. These two ways are called
“row-driven” or “column-driven” and here again it is cruciual for the
firmware and the actual wiring to be on the same page. ... I went for the
“row-driven” setup (visible by the direction of the diodes, the black line
being towards the key-switches). "
src: https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard/tree/master/guide

Please post images of your build, and share your experience.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: basie on Sat, 09 February 2019, 13:33:27
Ah, yes I saw that but in both his example diagrams, Matt Adereth has the diodes on the columns (just facing toward the switch or away from it for row-driven and column-driven). Tom built the Dactyl-Manuform with diodes on the rows, which seemed different enough that I thought I should ask :)

You can see how I laid out the columns here:

(https://i.imgur.com/aPwF9MT.jpg)

I discovered Adafruit are making flexible protoboards printed on mylar now, so I'm experimenting with cutting those into tracks to use as the rows and columns. It's working pretty well so far.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Sun, 10 February 2019, 04:10:46
Flexible Protoboard are so cool! Stronger than the magnet wires, and easier than the normal electric wire.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ju6ju8Oo on Sun, 10 February 2019, 04:12:42
another build. Build log at https://www.beekeeb.com/dactyl-manuform-mini-mechanical-keyboard-build-log
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 10 February 2019, 05:00:37
Hello, and thanks for all the work from various people that went into this. I'm just starting on my build.

I noticed after I'd soldered the columns on one side (without diodes) that the original Dactl uses diodes for columns, and the D-M uses diodes for rows. Is this because of the ProMicro vs Teensy difference? I bought a Teensy in the end, so... I guess I'm wondering if I should undo the columns I've done and repeat the process using diodes instead. Or doesn't it matter?
The Teensy and ProMicro both use the same chip so no difference there.  As mentioned previously it doesn't matter where you put the diodes just make sure they're connected in parallel not series, otherwise the whole row/column above/below (depending where you connect back to the controller) will trigger when you press one switch.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Squarism on Sun, 10 February 2019, 05:29:25
Would be cool if one could make parameters to the clojure script a function hand size/shape (finger length in particular). Only way I can think of is collecting
1. Some form of hand measurement. Finger length measures? Picture with hands and rulers.
2. The case cad files or closure script params.
3. Some form of survey form letting users give some sort of satisfaction rating with different parts of the keyboard.

Not an easy task. Probebly has to be done individually for 4/5/6 x columns. Just dreaming of a perfect world. 😀
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Symbiote on Fri, 06 September 2019, 11:01:35
I've noticed that one of the 1u thumb caps would collide with the outer 1.5u switchplate. On the boards I've built so far I just removed a bit of material so it wouldn't hit. So I've modified the switchplate to stop the cap from hitting. I did a test print, and it seems to have done the job. The changes I made to the code were pretty minor, just adding a half "larger-plate" which didn't mirror the side bit, changing the thumb definition & the connectors to match.

Your design looks perfect for me.  Do you have the final STL file, with this modification?  (Or the Clojure script.)

Unless a friend secretly has a 3D printer, I'll need to print this commercially, so I'd like it to be right first time :-)
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: impaktor on Fri, 06 September 2019, 13:04:23
I'd prefer Clojure source files.

I've also noted one key in thumb cluster getting stuck. To be honest, the thumb cluster on my 4x6 dactyl-manuform is way less user friendly than that on my Kinesis Advantage. I'll be doing a "normal" dactyl next, as this is much closer to a kinesis advantage. 

@Symbiote google "makerspace" (or "hackerspace") + "Denmark", and you'll find plenty of places in the larger cities, typically you can 3D print there for free. Also, many city libraries are starting to put 3D printers in their basements and what not, typically free to use, or just pay for filament. I too thought I'd have to pay a bunch to get mine 3D printed, but I'm printing for free now.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Sat, 07 September 2019, 22:21:35
Your design looks perfect for me.  Do you have the final STL file, with this modification?  (Or the Clojure script.)

Unless a friend secretly has a 3D printer, I'll need to print this commercially, so I'd like it to be right first time :-)

Well if you just want the bit that changes the 1.5u plate, then the way I did it was to copy-paste the definition of 'larger-plate' to make a new definition (I just named it 'larger-plate-half'). Then change 'mirror [0 1 0]' to 'mirror [0 0 0]'. Where you see thumb defined change it to

(def thumb
  (union
   (thumb-1x-layout (rotate (/ π 2) [0 0 1] single-plate))
   (thumb-tr-place single-plate)
   (thumb-tr-place larger-plate)
   (thumb-tl-place single-plate)
   (thumb-tl-place larger-plate-half)
   ))

Past that I'm pretty sure you'll need to mess with a few of the thumb connectors so you don't have a gap where that part of the 1.5u plate used to be.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Tue, 01 October 2019, 04:29:57
I may as well post the .stl with this fix as well, in case there are those that don't want to futz around with the clojure. The screw holes are sized for a 4.2mm OD/4mm length brass insert, and the trrs hole is fitted for these (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32968034072.html) jacks, but other 5mm jacks should fit too. The switch holes & trrs/pro micro holder are modified from l4u's mini dactyl fork here (https://github.com/l4u/dactyl-manuform-mini-keyboard).
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Fri, 22 November 2019, 02:42:38
Been making a trrs & pro micro holder for these boards. I wanted something that was just a friction with with the front wall so it was easily removable (no glue required either). Still a WIP for now but it shouldn't be too long before it's done.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Fri, 22 November 2019, 18:43:43
I'll call this close enough to done that I'm willing to share the .stl. The hole in the case is sized to be 12mm x 28.66mm. Though depending on how well your printer bridges gaps you might want to increase that height slightly. Also assumes about a 1.5mm lip on the left and right on the outside of the front wall. TRRS holder is sized for the jacks I linked earlier.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Intense on Sat, 30 November 2019, 13:31:58
I'll call this close enough to done that I'm willing to share the .stl. The hole in the case is sized to be 12mm x 28.66mm. Though depending on how well your printer bridges gaps you might want to increase that height slightly. Also assumes about a 1.5mm lip on the left and right on the outside of the front wall. TRRS holder is sized for the jacks I linked earlier.

This is awesome, thanks for posting it! Could you also share the STL of the case with the cutout? Not to sure how to create that myself.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Sat, 30 November 2019, 14:06:15
This is awesome, thanks for posting it! Could you also share the STL of the case with the cutout? Not to sure how to create that myself.

I haven't made a test print of the case yet, so I don't think I should share an untested .stl.

That said the way I went about it was to comment out most of the bits for the connectors (under 'def model-right') then changed the size & position of the usb holder hole to fit. That or you could probably just throw the stl into fusion (or whatever other software you like) and cut a hole in the model that way.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Intense on Sat, 30 November 2019, 16:47:06
This is awesome, thanks for posting it! Could you also share the STL of the case with the cutout? Not to sure how to create that myself.

I haven't made a test print of the case yet, so I don't think I should share an untested .stl.

That said the way I went about it was to comment out most of the bits for the connectors (under 'def model-right') then changed the size & position of the usb holder hole to fit. That or you could probably just throw the stl into fusion (or whatever other software you like) and cut a hole in the model that way.

Would you mind sharing it via PM for me to mess around with? I tried modifying the STL from above, but the plastic for the brass insert nut gets in the way of the holder. I can do some test prints and modifications if required and report back.

I could also mess around with and learn Clojure but I don't see a file for the most recent model you posted which has some fixes applied.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Wed, 11 December 2019, 04:55:30
Hi to all.
I'v already printed a Dactyl-Manuform 5x6 but i don't like it, so I would like to print a customized one.

Some questions:

1) Can someone tell me how to add a new screw how on the lower side of thumbcluster ?
2) how can I make these screw holes much smaller ? I need them about 2.5mm diameter, so that I can put a screw directly without the heat-insert
3) I would like to use an ergodox-like layout, so that i'll be able to use the ergodox keycaps set. is this possible ?
4) can someone help me customizing the clojure code to use a microusb holder and trrs ?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: impaktor on Wed, 11 December 2019, 05:22:56
@MutenMaster

For Ergodox keycaps, see:
https://github.com/crystalhand/dactyl-keyboard

He also prints for you and can help you hack the clojure code to your liking (I assume this is assuming you'll buy from him).

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/afkx3c/dactyl_modification_code_posted_1_year/
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Wed, 11 December 2019, 05:45:28
@MutenMaster

For Ergodox keycaps, see:
https://github.com/crystalhand/dactyl-keyboard

He also prints for you and can help you hack the clojure code to your liking (I assume this is assuming you'll buy from him).

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/afkx3c/dactyl_modification_code_posted_1_year/

I know the CrystalHand version, but I was referring to a dactyl-MANUFORM with ergodox compatibility. CrystalHand only has a standard dactyl with ergodox layout.

I've saw this: https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88576.0;attach=209531;image but i'm unable to find the clojure/stl file, the one i've got has the heat-insert holes visibile, the posted image has a "straight" wall with no space for inserts (hidden inside)

Also, i'm trying to use the usb+trrs adapter from another project, so i'm asking for help

Forgot to say that i'm a coder/programmer, so I need something usable as daily driver without a lot of FN keys for my daily use (perentesys and so on)
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: impaktor on Wed, 11 December 2019, 06:04:27
Ah, sorry. Got the manuform-part confused in my mind.

But I assume the 1.5u pinky column from a "normal" dactyl can be stolen from crystalhand's repo to the dactyl-manuform version.

I finished my manuform some time ago, I'd like to put a build log somewhere, but not sure where (I should maybe start a blog). In short: the dactyl-manuform is far from replacing my kinesis advantage, but was an excellent build experience. Will do a "normal" dactyl next.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Wed, 11 December 2019, 06:06:53
I may as well post the .stl with this fix as well, in case there are those that don't want to futz around with the clojure. The screw holes are sized for a 4.2mm OD/4mm length brass insert, and the trrs hole is fitted for these (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32968034072.html) jacks, but other 5mm jacks should fit too. The switch holes & trrs/pro micro holder are modified from l4u's mini dactyl fork here (https://github.com/l4u/dactyl-manuform-mini-keyboard).

First of all, thank you for your mod. i'm thinking to print a new dactyl based on your model.

Some questions:
1) could you please post the latest clojure file?
2) could you please tell me how to make the screw insert much smaller?  I'm thinking to NOT use any heat-insert but directly screw in the plastic after making a proper thread with a tip.
3) which keycaps set do you use ? Are Ergodox caps compatbile ?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Wed, 11 December 2019, 06:15:32
In short: the dactyl-manuform is far from replacing my kinesis advantage

Why?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Wed, 11 December 2019, 16:15:28
First of all, thank you for your mod. i'm thinking to print a new dactyl based on your model.

Some questions:
1) could you please post the latest clojure file?
2) could you please tell me how to make the screw insert much smaller?  I'm thinking to NOT use any heat-insert but directly screw in the plastic after making a proper thread with a tip.
3) which keycaps set do you use ? Are Ergodox caps compatbile ?

The clojure code I'm using right now has some untested bits; that and it's rather messy. That said the clojure code I posted earlier in the thread here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88576.msg2623298#msg2623298) isn't substantially different.
The screw inserts are defined near the bottom of the code. The relevant bits are screw-insert-height, screw-insert-bottom-radius, etc.
As for keycaps I either use MT3 or DSA with ergodox sets. The point of the modifications to the layout I made were to make it more compatible with ergodox sets. Obviously it isn't totally the same as the thumb uses 1.5u keycaps, so making the inner columns use 1u caps instead of 1.5u made sense.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Wed, 11 December 2019, 16:24:06
First of all, thank you for your mod. i'm thinking to print a new dactyl based on your model.

Some questions:
1) could you please post the latest clojure file?
2) could you please tell me how to make the screw insert much smaller?  I'm thinking to NOT use any heat-insert but directly screw in the plastic after making a proper thread with a tip.
3) which keycaps set do you use ? Are Ergodox caps compatbile ?

The clojure code I'm using right now has some untested bits; that and it's rather messy. That said the clojure code I posted earlier in the thread here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88576.msg2623298#msg2623298) isn't substantially different.
The screw inserts are defined near the bottom of the code. The relevant bits are screw-insert-height, screw-insert-bottom-radius, etc.
As for keycaps I either use MT3 or DSA with ergodox sets. The point of the modifications to the layout I made were to make it more compatible with ergodox sets. Obviously it isn't totally the same as the thumb uses 1.5u keycaps, so making the inner columns use 1u caps instead of 1.5u made sense.

Do you think would be possibile to add an additional row for function keys?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Wed, 11 December 2019, 16:42:55
Do you think would be possibile to add an additional row for function keys?

If you wanted to use my clojure you'd have to change it to accommodate. So it'd be more work than just changing nrows from 5 to 6, but sure.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Wed, 11 December 2019, 16:47:49
Do you think would be possibile to add an additional row for function keys?

If you wanted to use my clojure you'd have to change it to accommodate. So it'd be more work than just changing nrows from 5 to 6, but sure.

I Will try tomorrow
What i've already tried, with no success, was to make the heat-insert much smaller, can you tell me what to change to make the hole 2.5mm in diameter?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Thu, 12 December 2019, 03:37:04
If you wanted to use my clojure you'd have to change it to accommodate. So it'd be more work than just changing nrows from 5 to 6, but sure.

Trying to use your clojure right now. First thing i've seen is that heat-screw holes are visible and placed outside the keyboard perimeter. In your previous stl they are located inside.
How can I fix this in the code ?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Thu, 12 December 2019, 03:50:05
Also, adding a 6th row will break the layout. I'm not a clojure programmer, any hint on how to fix this ?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Toreip on Mon, 06 January 2020, 04:30:13
I'll call this close enough to done that I'm willing to share the .stl. The hole in the case is sized to be 12mm x 28.66mm. Though depending on how well your printer bridges gaps you might want to increase that height slightly. Also assumes about a 1.5mm lip on the left and right on the outside of the front wall. TRRS holder is sized for the jacks I linked earlier.

Thanks for that! I always have fitment problems with the USB, having it as a separate part means I won't have to re-print the whole keyboard. I am testing the fit, I think the lip is more 4-5mm than 1.5?
Also, I have different TRRS holder, could you share the source of the holder so that I could adapt it for my TRRS?

2) how can I make these screw holes much smaller ? I need them about 2.5mm diameter, so that I can put a screw directly without the heat-insert
4) can someone help me customizing the clojure code to use a microusb holder and trrs ?

2) those are the variables:
Code: [Select]
(def screw-insert-height 3.8)
(def screw-insert-bottom-radius (/ 5.31 2))
(def screw-insert-top-radius (/ 5.1 2))

so 5.31mm diameter at the bottom, 5.1mm at the top, length of 3.8mm.

4) Look at "def model-right" union list the addition, difference the holes. Modifying right is enough as it will be mirrored to generate left.

Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: kenzya on Thu, 09 January 2020, 13:00:15
I may as well post the .stl with this fix as well, in case there are those that don't want to futz around with the clojure. The screw holes are sized for a 4.2mm OD/4mm length brass insert, and the trrs hole is fitted for these (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32968034072.html) jacks, but other 5mm jacks should fit too. The switch holes & trrs/pro micro holder are modified from l4u's mini dactyl fork here (https://github.com/l4u/dactyl-manuform-mini-keyboard).

I have been trying to get a clojure/leininger/SCAD environment setup on my Windows machine so I could generate the bottom plate but I just can't get it to work. Could you possibly post the bottom plate? Also, I am mirroring the .stl and it is coming out to around 400kb while the original is around 2mb, do you know if that will that be an issue?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Sat, 11 January 2020, 00:07:51
Thanks for that! I always have fitment problems with the USB, having it as a separate part means I won't have to re-print the whole keyboard. I am testing the fit, I think the lip is more 4-5mm than 1.5?
Also, I have different TRRS holder, could you share the source of the holder so that I could adapt it for my TRRS?

By lip I mean the space on the left/right of the cutout on the case for the holder to grip. My project file for the holder is a mess tbh, but you could probably throw the .stl in whatever 3D software you like and modify it from there.

In other news, I've been modifying the code for this board to make a number of things easily changeable parameters:

-whether the outer column uses 1.5u keys
-which rows use 1.5u keys
-toggle for using an extra row for the pinky columns
-toggle for whether there's an extra inner column to the left of the thumb that looks like the 5x7 I've been posting earlier

So you can do all sorts of wacky nonsense combinations along with the normal ones now. The clojure will still break if you give it values it isn't expecting so keep that in mind. Also keep in mind it's untested so further tweaking might be necessary. For now the screw inserts have to be moved manually for it to line up nicely. Also the code just uses the cutout for the separate trrs/controller holder rather than the standard holder. If I can get around to it I might add in a toggle between the default thumb cluster and ju6ju8Oo's mini thumb cluster.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Sat, 11 January 2020, 01:46:35
Can someone tell me how to create the plate stl ready to print, directly from clojure code? Currently is making only the perimeter
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: derpdederp on Fri, 24 January 2020, 02:48:38
How does it feel vs the kinesis? Can optical switches be used in it?

I'm also wondering which keyboard is the most concave ever made...
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Fri, 24 January 2020, 03:01:45
This is mine.
A little big higher, no use of heat-inset, screw holes inside the case, TRRS support on the back and microsd slot (taken from another dactyl shown in this thread)

I still have to find a way to generate the bottom plate, the current code is making the plate for "cut", i need the same but "full" to be 3dprintable, not only the perimeter.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Fri, 24 January 2020, 03:03:38
i've also fixed the preview code, now caps are filled properly with the right color
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Toreip on Sat, 25 January 2020, 04:31:53
Looks like you simplified the "hull" calls as well, would you share your code?

And if you have not printed it yet, have a look at the "larger-plate-half" change for one of the switch in the thumb cluster or you might not be able to press it fully.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: mr.squishy on Sat, 25 January 2020, 05:50:01
i've also fixed the preview code, now caps are filled properly with the right color
This is my perfect layout, do you have an stl that includes the base?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Sun, 26 January 2020, 07:20:11
Looks like you simplified the "hull" calls as well, would you share your code?

What do you mean with "hull calls" ?

Quote
And if you have not printed it yet, have a look at the "larger-plate-half" change for one of the switch in the thumb cluster or you might not be able to press it fully.

Already printed....... Which switch is the culprit so that i can check ?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Sun, 26 January 2020, 07:21:45
This is my clojure code.

The only missing thing is the plate, i don't know how to generate the plate ready for print. I need a "filled" plate not only the perimeter like the actual one
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: mr.squishy on Tue, 28 January 2020, 14:06:24
The only missing thing is the plate, i don't know how to generate the plate ready for print. I need a "filled" plate not only the perimeter like the actual one
Me too, I can't seem to generate a useful plate at all.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Tue, 28 January 2020, 15:54:39
"When a model is generated, it also generates a .scad model for a bottom plate. This can be exported to a DXF file in OpenSCAD. The things/ directory also has DXF files for the bottom plate. When laser cut, some of the inside cuts will need to be removed."

From Tshort's github page for this board. You need to export a .dxf then throw that in fusion360 or some other 3D software of choice to make a plate out of it. That or take the .dxf and get a plate laser cut.

Already printed....... Which switch is the culprit so that i can check ?

I made some posts about it here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88576.msg2720666#msg2720666), here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88576.msg2808320#msg2808320) and here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88576.msg2816508#msg2816508). It's also fixed in the clojure code I uploaded in my last post in this thread.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: h.parks on Tue, 28 January 2020, 16:16:39
I updated the original Dactyl design (https://github.com/h-parks/dactyl-keyboard) from an integrated plate/tray-mount style keyboard to a bottom-mount style keyboard. My variant is meant for Alps switches and stabilizers, but it wouldn't take too much programming work to convert it back to Cherry MX compatibility.

(https://i.imgur.com/4fLhzym.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HxGWLvb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4dKgePh.jpg)

Other changes:

When I've 3D-printed all the parts, I will post the finished product for you all. So far, the right-hand plate and bottom case are complete and fit great using M3 screws and heat-set inserts.

I use a shared 3D printer so it may take a few more weeks to get all the parts done, as there are six in total (eight if including the wrist rests).
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Toreip on Fri, 31 January 2020, 12:23:52
What do you mean with "hull calls" ?

One of the command in the code :)
it makes the junctions between different parts.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Intense on Mon, 03 February 2020, 20:29:49
This is awesome, thanks for posting it! Could you also share the STL of the case with the cutout? Not to sure how to create that myself.

I haven't made a test print of the case yet, so I don't think I should share an untested .stl.

That said the way I went about it was to comment out most of the bits for the connectors (under 'def model-right') then changed the size & position of the usb holder hole to fit. That or you could probably just throw the stl into fusion (or whatever other software you like) and cut a hole in the model that way.

Would you mind sharing it via PM for me to mess around with? I tried modifying the STL from above, but the plastic for the brass insert nut gets in the way of the holder. I can do some test prints and modifications if required and report back.

I could also mess around with and learn Clojure but I don't see a file for the most recent model you posted which has some fixes applied.

Been a while, so time for an update... I printed out the STL with the Pro Micro and TRRS tray cutout, and all fits together super nicely!

I ended up modifying the Pro Micro holder to support an Elite-C, so you can find the file attached  :thumb: . Warning, the scale is 10x what it should be and I just scaled it down when slicing it in Cura...

I'll have to snag some pictures when I get the chance, fairly happy with how these turned out.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Wed, 05 February 2020, 05:16:51
So, i've not followed the latest updates due to lack of time.
Would be possible to have the latest "printable" version with TRRS, microusb/usbc slot and hidden holes for insert ? Something that I can print with not surprises
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Mon, 10 February 2020, 18:16:49
Been a while, so time for an update... I printed out the STL with the Pro Micro and TRRS tray cutout, and all fits together super nicely!

I ended up modifying the Pro Micro holder to support an Elite-C, so you can find the file attached  :thumb: . Warning, the scale is 10x what it should be and I just scaled it down when slicing it in Cura...

I'll have to snag some pictures when I get the chance, fairly happy with how these turned out.

Cool, good to hear it worked fine. Speaking of the elite-c I did also modify my holder to fit it. I've since made a fork with all these changes, right here:

https://github.com/carbonfet/dactyl-manuform

I've added in the toggle between the default thumb cluster and ju6ju8Oo's mini thumb cluster too.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: gooberpea on Mon, 10 February 2020, 21:40:26
I tried to run your code (lein auto generate) and got this:

Exception in thread "main" java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: sa-double-length in this context, compiling:(/carbonfet/dactyl-manuform/src/dactyl_keyboard/dactyl.clj:132:25)

Any ideas?  I can't see the issue, cause I'm a noob.  :(
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Mon, 10 February 2020, 21:50:41
Seems to be just the placement for the definitions of larger-plate and larger-plate-half that's doing that. I've moved them so it should behave now.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: derpdederp on Wed, 19 February 2020, 15:32:39
Dactyl seems great - I will have to actually try it to see if it is as good for big hands as the Kinesis Advantage. It would be nice to have the concave keypads lower in comparison to the wrists. Also, I will attempt to get some other types of switches on the dactyl... I'm unsure yet - perhaps even optical switches (would have to pay extra for such a feat).

Does anyone know which keyboard is the "most concave" in existence?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Intense on Sun, 15 March 2020, 18:04:13
Messing around with the Clojure but can't seem to figure out one change I want to make.

Is it possible to shift the extra-row one column over so that it matches more to the Kinesis Advantage layout? This would also require the thumb cluster to shift to the right a bit.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Tue, 21 April 2020, 14:07:49
I've added a new thumb cluster to my fork, as well as updated the design of the trrs/pro-micro holder. For the thumb cluster I wanted to use all the same keys as the original manuform thumb cluster, but didn't require moving the thumb more than one position left or right to hit everything. As for the holder I brought the trrs jack closer to the front so you can use right angle cables now, that and it sits more flush to the wall of the case now. Stopped trying to make the holder a single piece so now you just need to put a shim behind the trrs jack to keep it in place.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ufoDziner on Sat, 02 May 2020, 15:46:30
Edit: Got it working thanks to Crystalhand.  Was missing libraries from the original git.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ufoDziner on Sun, 03 May 2020, 19:33:34
Hi @Loligagger,
  Thanks for creating the modded files that you have, as they seem to be the most progressive of the bunch.  I just created some models using your dactyl.clj file, and am having a bit of an issue though.  It seems that changing the thumbs to mini, and/or not using 1.5u spacing for the outer column causes the mounting posts to detach from the case and just sit outside.  Could you please have a look and see if it can be corrected easily?  Also, the base plates appear to have no center.  Is that by design?  I assumed that they'd be closed.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Sun, 03 May 2020, 20:07:29
The screw posts still need to be moved manually. Perhaps at some point I'll make it so they stay in perfect positions for whatever layout you pick but that's low priority for me tbh. As for the bottom plate that's how it is in the original fork as well. You'd use that to export as a .dxf then throw it in whatever 3D software you like to make a plate out of.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ufoDziner on Sun, 03 May 2020, 20:44:27
Thanks for the prompt reply!  Would you mind giving me just a bit of guidance as to where the posts are in the code so I can try and move them?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Sun, 03 May 2020, 20:54:37
It's right near the bottom, where you see "defn screw-insert-all-shapes". You'll see the 5 lines for the screw posts and their [x, y, z] offset values.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ufoDziner on Sun, 03 May 2020, 21:09:58
Awesome.  Thanks a ton!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ufoDziner on Sat, 16 May 2020, 16:00:56
@Loligagger - I'm finishing up my build using your files... Thanks!  Quick question.  I'm using the Elite-C boards, so I printed 2 of your Elite-C controller holders.  The Elite-C and TRRS slots seem to be perfect, as does the fit of the controller holder in the right keyboard half.  The left side is another story though.  It doesn't appear to have the guide slots for the controller holder to slide into.  Is there some other part that I'm supposed to print for the left half?  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Sat, 16 May 2020, 17:46:29
The left half parts should just be a mirror of the right half.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ufoDziner on Sat, 16 May 2020, 19:30:16
Okay.  I used the generated files for left and right.  It appears that it's not an exact mirror, as those grooves are missing.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ufoDziner on Sun, 17 May 2020, 22:50:52
Finished it!!!  Super pleased, just need to work on my typing skills now!!!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ufoDziner on Thu, 21 May 2020, 09:49:37
Would you mind sharing the step file for your Elite-C holder?  I'd like to mess with it a bit.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Mon, 25 May 2020, 00:01:59
Sure, might as well share .step files for both versions of the holder.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: ufoDziner on Mon, 25 May 2020, 21:13:40
Thanks a ton!!  I just finished some floating wrist rests for it.  So far they feel really good.  Allows me to reach without having to lift, etc...

https://imgur.com/ohrozoZ

https://imgur.com/MWC0ghs
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: anorak on Thu, 11 June 2020, 09:03:02
I finished my build. It is a dactyl manuform for the left hand only, with modifications for being used as a gaming pad.
Because it is for gaming, it has some RGB backlight for the keys  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/6GTIjQ6l.jpg)

With backlight on

(https://i.imgur.com/Asli9Cal.jpg)

Soldering was some sort of a special hell

(https://i.imgur.com/r1ilGEsl.jpg)
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: fax668 on Mon, 15 June 2020, 11:20:54
That is some amazing piece of work. The Amoeba PCBs are a good idea for doing the backlight. I have been looking for a workable approach to use SMD LEDs and haven't found any documentation by others doing that with a Manuform.
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Mon, 29 June 2020, 04:28:03
So, i was far from this for a couple of reasons.

now i'm back and I would like to print a dactyl-manuform-ergodox. I've already printed one but i've found that keys in the cluster are not properly spaced (this is what someone told me in this thread or another one, i don't remember)

So, which STL should I print that works properly ?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: shiftux on Tue, 30 June 2020, 04:33:21
Hello

New here. Starting a dactyl-manuform build.
Thanks for all the great work and the rich information here! - Special thanks to @Tshort!

My goal would be to modify the standard build a bit, adding media buttons and a rotary encoder. The STL files look fine so far, everything is in place. However I have a question concerning the QMK firmware. The photos of the wiring in the https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform (https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform) pictures show a 5x6 build but it actually has 6x6 (6 colored cables and 6 white cables) which is confusing me... Then if I look at the code to build a hex file I see a matrix that looks like 8x6 per side...?

code from default 5x6 keymap (https://github.com/tshort/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/dactyl-manuform/keymaps/5x6-default/keymap.c (https://github.com/tshort/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/dactyl-manuform/keymaps/5x6-default/keymap.c)) looks smt like: 

Code: [Select]
 
// left hand
   KC_ESC,    KC_1,    KC_2,    KC_3,   KC_4,   KC_5,
   KC_TAB,    KC_Q,    KC_W,    KC_E,   KC_R,   KC_T,
   KC_LCTL,   KC_A,    KC_S,    KC_D,   KC_F,   KC_G,
   KC_LSFT,   KC_Y,    KC_X,    KC_C,   KC_V,   KC_B,
                       KC_NUBS,  KC_EQL,
                               KC_LALT, KC_LGUI,
                               KC_UP,   MO(1),
                               KC_DOWN, KC_HOME,

so I can't really figure out how the 8 lines and 6 columns then are being interpreted and should be wired up to match the final desired keymap...

Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Mon, 06 July 2020, 09:07:00
So, i was far from this for a couple of reasons.

now i'm back and I would like to print a dactyl-manuform-ergodox. I've already printed one but i've found that keys in the cluster are not properly spaced (this is what someone told me in this thread or another one, i don't remember)

So, which STL should I print that works properly ?

no one ?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: shiftux on Fri, 10 July 2020, 07:48:29
RE my previous question, I found the answer for anyone interested.
while the keyboard layout is considered a 5x6 keyboard. the wiring matrix is actually a 6x6 matrix (with 4 empty slots)
the code here https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/handwired/dactyl_manuform/5x6/5x6.h (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/handwired/dactyl_manuform/5x6/5x6.h) illustrates that. note the upper part corresponds to the keyboard and the lower part corresponds to the wiring matrix.

hope this helps someone else
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: shiftux on Mon, 13 July 2020, 14:03:45
I'm struggling getting the slave half to work...
i flashed QMK (default 5x6) and plugged in the left side (master) which is working fine (QWERT), connecting the TRS for the slave works and the slave is powered (led on the pro micro) but keys are not responding.
if i plug the right side it starts acting as master (QWERT keys) as expected and the left side (now slave) is in turn not responding...
checked the connection and the signal cable is on PD0 (default) on both MCUs and checking it with my voltmeter gives the connection beep as it should...

has this happened to someone else here?
any ideas of how to debug?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: shiftux on Tue, 14 July 2020, 10:21:39
solved it
details are here https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/issues/9697 (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/issues/9697).
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: MutenMaster on Tue, 04 August 2020, 04:09:52
So, i was far from this for a couple of reasons.

now i'm back and I would like to print a dactyl-manuform-ergodox. I've already printed one but i've found that keys in the cluster are not properly spaced (this is what someone told me in this thread or another one, i don't remember)

So, which STL should I print that works properly ?

So ? Which stl/openscad should I use for the latest and fixed version ?
Title: Re: Dactyl-ManuForm keyboard build
Post by: Loligagger on Sat, 14 November 2020, 23:13:46
Recently made some fixes and changes to the model (added to my fork here (https://github.com/carbonfet/dactyl-manuform)) so I may as well share them.

I noticed that the top row keycap (when using 5 rows) for the ring finger column would sometimes collide with the case near bottom out, so I widened the switch plate slightly to accommodate for that. Old design on the left and new one on the right.

[attach=2]

Also wanted to thicken the 'switch plate' to 4.5mm to lessen the gap between the bottom of the case and amoebas or any other PCB. That way the PCB should hold the switch tightly in place even if the switch plate itself doesn't have a super tight hold. Increased the web connector thickness between the individual switch plates too so you don't get those squares sticking out making the bottom uneven. As a side effect of the method I used to do this some of the walls are slightly thicker.

[attach=1]