geekhack

Site Announcements and Feedback => Announcements/Feedback/Suggestions => Topic started by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 11:41:54

Title: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 11:41:54
I have been offered $10k to sell the geekhack community.

As many of you know, I maintain a SIGNIFICANT loss in maintaining the site.  Folks will donate for a month or two and then stop.  I LOVE the community and it is a great source of pride to see how the community grew out of my seedling of an idea. 

I would RATHER sell to a community member (or a group of members).  So, I am putting this "out there".  If a group of community members can beat the offered price, I will gladly turn over the website to them.  (I will help migrate the site to a new server (hosted/owned/whatever)...and do whatever needs to be done for a successful transition.)  Otherwise, in a month or so, the site will be in the hands of a new company. 

(sorry.  I currently have three mortgages...dude to an unexpected move.  And I simply can't incur the expense any longer.)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 01 July 2018, 11:49:59
:(

I understand your position iMav, and appreciate you offering this to the community. Any idea how things might change under the ownership of this other company?

This is just such a big thing to process...  :|
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: joey on Sun, 01 July 2018, 11:50:04
Any ideas what plans a company could have for this site? It makes me feel pretty uneasy about it.

Can you give some figures on the current hosting costs?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 11:55:04
I would anticipate they want to monetize the site. So, ads for sure.  They benefit from the continuing existence of the site...so it isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Zeal on Sun, 01 July 2018, 11:57:20
Could you disclose the monthly maintenance costs for hosting?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 11:57:42
Depends on who the buyer is. If they maintain a largely hands-off approach then i'm not opposed.

im unable to offer any money in an offer but i'll see if i can get some folks together
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 11:57:58
I SO would like to transition the site to community ownership....but the reality is, I need the money. 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 01 July 2018, 11:59:57
I would anticipate they want to monetize the site. So, ads for sure.  They benefit from the continuing existence of the site...so it isn't going anywhere.

I assumed monetization for sure, but any talk of influence on site operations? Will they replace the mods? Or will things operate as today, just with the addition of ads? There sounds to be a lot of uncertainty here...
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: joey on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:01:10
What about setting up a patreon, and seeing how many people we can get to donate?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:01:25
I would anticipate they want to monetize the site. So, ads for sure.  They benefit from the continuing existence of the site...so it isn't going anywhere.

I assumed monetization for sure, but any talk of influence on site operations? Will they replace the mods? Or will things operate as today, just with the addition of ads? There sounds to be a lot of uncertainty here...

if they replace the mods im leaving
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: xondat on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:02:15
I will be highly disappointed if it's sold.

I can understand the monthly costs, but selling it because you want money, in my eyes, is selling out.

It depends what the new ownership would change etc. Oh, and the potential buyers need to be named.

If you do want money over community, I'll help contribute to that final sum (~$1k).
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:02:25
Could you disclose the monthly maintenance costs for hosting?
I pay $240/mo for the dedicated server and I pay $30/mo for the backup services.

I think the site COULD be hosted on a lesser server...so, the monthly cost could be reduced.  (and, certainly, you could automate your own backup if you wanted to.)

Whomever takes over the site, I am willing to help with the transition (obviously). 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: joey on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:04:07
Could you disclose the monthly maintenance costs for hosting?
I pay $240/mo for the dedicated server and I pay $30/mo for the backup services.

I think the site COULD be hosted on a lesser server...so, the monthly cost could be reduced.  (and, certainly, you could automate your own backup if you wanted to.)

Whomever takes over the site, I am willing to help with the transition (obviously).
It seems like we could probably get a sum like that using patreon or something. But it sounds like you actually just want to sell it and not run it with monthly monetary help?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: avid on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:04:39
Is there any words from what the potential buyer wants to do with the site?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:04:53
Could you disclose the monthly maintenance costs for hosting?
I pay $240/mo for the dedicated server and I pay $30/mo for the backup services.

I think the site COULD be hosted on a lesser server...so, the monthly cost could be reduced.  (and, certainly, you could automate your own backup if you wanted to.)

Whomever takes over the site, I am willing to help with the transition (obviously).
It seems like we could probably get a sum like that using patreon or something. But it sounds like you actually just want to sell it and not run it with monthly monetary help?

GH has been operating on a patreon like model forever, and it's clearly stopped working
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Dennyroxsox on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:05:39
Where is the site hosted currently? On dedicated cloud hosts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: joey on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:06:26
Could you disclose the monthly maintenance costs for hosting?
I pay $240/mo for the dedicated server and I pay $30/mo for the backup services.

I think the site COULD be hosted on a lesser server...so, the monthly cost could be reduced.  (and, certainly, you could automate your own backup if you wanted to.)

Whomever takes over the site, I am willing to help with the transition (obviously).
It seems like we could probably get a sum like that using patreon or something. But it sounds like you actually just want to sell it and not run it with monthly monetary help?

GH has been operating on a patreon like model forever, and it's clearly stopped working
But *actually* using patreon might help.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:07:04
It seems like we could probably get a sum like that using patreon or something. But it sounds like you actually just want to sell it and not run it with monthly monetary help?
I am not completely closed off to continuing to run the site. I simply can't continue to incur the monthly deficit at this time.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:07:19
Could you disclose the monthly maintenance costs for hosting?
I pay $240/mo for the dedicated server and I pay $30/mo for the backup services.

I think the site COULD be hosted on a lesser server...so, the monthly cost could be reduced.  (and, certainly, you could automate your own backup if you wanted to.)

Whomever takes over the site, I am willing to help with the transition (obviously).
It seems like we could probably get a sum like that using patreon or something. But it sounds like you actually just want to sell it and not run it with monthly monetary help?

GH has been operating on a patreon like model forever, and it's clearly stopped working
But *actually* using patreon might help.

i'm not optimistic but then again 300 a month isn't that much in the grand scheme of keyboards

what would we do with the extra cash?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:08:27
GH has been operating on a patreon like model forever, and it's clearly stopped working
I agree.  :(

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: joey on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:08:48
It seems like we could probably get a sum like that using patreon or something. But it sounds like you actually just want to sell it and not run it with monthly monetary help?
I am not completely closed off to continuing to run the site. I simply can't continue to incur the monthly deficit at this time.

How about you set up a patreon account, and see what support we can get in the next month or so? (I guess it has to be you that sets it up for paypal etc)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:08:52
But *actually* using patreon might help.
I don't disagree.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kristmascane on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:12:09
Could you disclose the monthly maintenance costs for hosting?
I pay $240/mo for the dedicated server and I pay $30/mo for the backup services.

I think the site COULD be hosted on a lesser server...so, the monthly cost could be reduced.  (and, certainly, you could automate your own backup if you wanted to.)

Whomever takes over the site, I am willing to help with the transition (obviously).

I'm not a hosting expert, but this seems like a huge markup. I could probably host this site at work for free with nobody knowing. Can I ask how much storage space the site is using?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:13:18
But *actually* using patreon might help.
I don't disagree.

lets try it and see what happens

gh has its problems but id much rather it stays community owned
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: ygor on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:14:14
What are the monthly costs if I may ask? I've ran a popular phpBB forum in the past and it cost me only 110 bucks a year, and that was just for the cost of the domain name and host (which also held a slew of other stuff aside from the forum). It's entirely your decision to sell and you can do whatever you like... I'm just surprised that the reason would be that it costs too much money to host this place?

No need to respond, I jus no understand dis line of thot.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: romevi on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:14:24
Holy cow.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:14:59
What are the monthly costs if I may ask? I've ran a popular phpBB forum in the past and it cost me only 110 bucks a year, and that was just for the cost of the domain name and host, which also held a slew of other stuff aside from the forum. It's entirely your decision to sell and you can do whatever you like... I'm just surprised that the reason would be that it costs too much money to host this place?

No need to respond, I jus no understand dis line of thot.

he said above it's about 300 a month
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:15:07
I will be highly disappointed if it's sold.

I can understand the monthly costs, but selling it because you want money, in my eyes, is selling out.

It depends what the new ownership would change etc. Oh, and the potential buyers need to be named.

If you do want money over community, I'll help contribute to that final sum (~$1k).

Selling something that hits you every month with a ~$400 bill when you can't afford it isn't selling out, it's just life. It's obvious this wasn't his top choice, or one it seems he wanted to make, but I think the fact that he is opening it up to the community first and not just selling it to a company off the bat is proof he is not "selling out."
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:15:52
It's been a good run. Kinda sad to see it go.

The new owners should definitely charge a fee to run IC's and GB's and for artisan forums to exist.

Definitely have a monthly fee for any commercial sub forums to continue to exist.

And a charge per classified posting.

$5/custom title and $5/username change

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:16:02
We have had a prominent donation link for a while now (through paypal).  The pattern is that folks set up donation...and then stop after a couple of months. It has NOT worked...
 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: ygor on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:16:38
What are the monthly costs if I may ask? I've ran a popular phpBB forum in the past and it cost me only 110 bucks a year, and that was just for the cost of the domain name and host, which also held a slew of other stuff aside from the forum. It's entirely your decision to sell and you can do whatever you like... I'm just surprised that the reason would be that it costs too much money to host this place?

No need to respond, I jus no understand dis line of thot.

he said above it's about 300 a month

Huh. Thas weird.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kristmascane on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:17:28
I will be highly disappointed if it's sold.

I can understand the monthly costs, but selling it because you want money, in my eyes, is selling out.

It depends what the new ownership would change etc. Oh, and the potential buyers need to be named.

If you do want money over community, I'll help contribute to that final sum (~$1k).

Selling something that hits you every month with a ~$400 bill when you can't afford it isn't selling out, it's just life. It's obvious this wasn't his top choice, or one it seems he wanted to make, but I think the fact that he is opening it up to the community first and not just selling it to a company off the bat is proof he is not "selling out."

Agreed, but I just don't see how it could cost that much, unless the geekhack domain name is costing the majority of it.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:17:39
We have had a prominent donation link for a while now (through paypal).  The pattern is that folks set up donation...and then stop after a couple of months. It has NOT worked...

we won't know if a patreon works or not if we don't try

it's a lot more visible than the donation link if we post it on reddit
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Zeal on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:18:23
I'm interested iMav, let's talk.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:19:15
Iíd like to see Patreon actually used, and some promoting/rallying done to drum up support every so often. iMav, I think youíve been suffering in silence because the mods donít know the costs or any of these details, so nothing is done in a public-facing manner to help raise funds for the site. Clue us in on these costs, give us some tools to help, and we can probably make some progress. Silently adding a >>DEALS<< header only seemed to frustrate users, and none of the changes were run by the mods. I think bridging that gap would go a long way.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: xondat on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:20:07
Iíd like to see Patreon actually used, and some promoting/rallying done to drum up support every so often. iMav, I think youíve been suffering in silence because the mods donít know the costs or any of these details, so nothing is done in a public-facing manner to help raise funds for the site. Clue us in on these costs, give us some tools to help, and we can probably make some progress. Silently adding a >>DEALS<< header only seemed to frustrate users, and none of the changes were run by the mods. I think bridging that gap would go a long way.

100% agree. Seems like a very hands off approach has let everyone down.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:20:54
Iíd like to see Patreon actually used, and some promoting/rallying done to drum up support every so often. iMav, I think youíve been suffering in silence because the mods donít know the costs or any of these details, so nothing is done in a public-facing manner to help raise funds for the site. Clue us in on these costs, give us some tools to help, and we can probably make some progress. Silently adding a >>DEALS<< header only seemed to frustrate users, and none of the changes were run by the mods. I think bridging that gap would go a long way.

agree

id like to see an overall more hands on and transparent approach in site ownership nomatter the outcome
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:21:10
Iíd like to see Patreon actually used, and some promoting/rallying done to drum up support every so often. iMav, I think youíve been suffering in silence because the mods donít know the costs or any of these details, so nothing is done in a public-facing manner to help raise funds for the site. Clue us in on these costs, give us some tools to help, and we can probably make some progress. Silently adding a >>DEALS<< header only seemed to frustrate users, and none of the changes were run by the mods. I think bridging that gap would go a long way.

Perfectly said.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: dgneo on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:25:45
Iíd like to see Patreon actually used, and some promoting/rallying done to drum up support every so often. iMav, I think youíve been suffering in silence because the mods donít know the costs or any of these details, so nothing is done in a public-facing manner to help raise funds for the site. Clue us in on these costs, give us some tools to help, and we can probably make some progress. Silently adding a >>DEALS<< header only seemed to frustrate users, and none of the changes were run by the mods. I think bridging that gap would go a long way.

Agreed with this
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kristmascane on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:27:51
Patreon or not, this is major overpaying for hosting. You do not need a dedicated server for this forum.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:31:00
Patreon or not, this is major overpaying for hosting. You do not need a dedicated server for this forum.

average 750k pageviews a day

https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=stats
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Dennyroxsox on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:34:49
Patreon or not, this is major overpaying for hosting. You do not need a dedicated server for this forum.

Yeah, that's more or less what I'm fishing for. Where is this currently hosted? I know anyone can be an armchair admin, but I'm sure there are many members of the community that could donate time into making sure hosting and load balancing are handled well. I don't know imav's experience with those kinds of things, but transparency in that regard would be a good step.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kristmascane on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:35:11
Patreon or not, this is major overpaying for hosting. You do not need a dedicated server for this forum.

average 750k pageviews a day

https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=stats

That's way expensive for that kind of traffic. I think rackspace has a 1 mil/day baseline at around $40/month
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:36:00
Patreon or not, this is major overpaying for hosting. You do not need a dedicated server for this forum.

average 750k pageviews a day

https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=stats

That's way expensive for that kind of traffic. I think rackspace has a 1 mil/day baseline at around $40/month

either way i think the money is there for a 300/mo cost

just gotta figure out how to get people to pay it
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: xondat on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:39:36
I will be highly disappointed if it's sold.

I can understand the monthly costs, but selling it because you want money, in my eyes, is selling out.

It depends what the new ownership would change etc. Oh, and the potential buyers need to be named.

If you do want money over community, I'll help contribute to that final sum (~$1k).

Selling something that hits you every month with a ~$400 bill when you can't afford it isn't selling out, it's just life. It's obvious this wasn't his top choice, or one it seems he wanted to make, but I think the fact that he is opening it up to the community first and not just selling it to a company off the bat is proof he is not "selling out."

Yeah my bad, selling out is the wrong word.

The monthly costs aren't a problem, if done correctly, which they haven't. See Hoff's comment. :p



P.S. also PM'd you iMav.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Colourr on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:44:10
I'm interested iMav, let's talk.

God Zeal please save us.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Woovie on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:50:47
My first recommendation to significantly reduce costs is to move it off of 1&1. This site could be hosted for insanely cheaper amounts by not hosting with hand-holding hosting. If you need a system administrator, I'm sure plenty of people in this community are willing and can help. I would offer help myself for free. I operate a server in the US hosted via OVH for less than 100/mo with pretty powerful hardware, but it doesn't come with cPanel or any hosting software built in. jm2c on this situation.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kristmascane on Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:52:43
Here's my bottom line on this. Yes a better patreon method would work and probably help this get funded a little easier, but the real issue is that this is costing way too much. Why have people donate to something that can have it's priced reduced significantly? I'm not too sure of the reason for hosting on a dedicated server, but if it's security, you're wrong. If it's manageability, you're wrong. If it's price, you're wrong. Moving this over to a shared hosting solution can save you like 70% if not more of this monthly cost while also adding several layers of security, and probably more features. I'd gladly donate knowing that the site was costing what it should and not contributing to something financially irresponsible, personally.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Oblotzky on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:08:46
#1 Whatever your decision is, I respect it. The site is obviously generating less money than it costs to run, so you're obviously not greedy, just can't sustain the current environment.

#2 As others have mentioned, a move to different hardware could already be a huge help, maybe get us halfway and the other half via patreon or so? I'm not an expert on what hardware is required to host the million siteviews a day, but for example with Hetzner you can get 128gb ram, a solid CPU, 1-2tb SSD space on 1gbit with 50tb/month traffic (how much data is a siteview? this would be sufficient for 1.75MB at 30mil monthly views, and I think it costs like a euro or two per additional TB). This seems to me like a good start.

(https://i.imgur.com/w28mFbC.png)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: ramnes on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:11:02
$10K for such a large and active niche community is a bargain, please be aware of it.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:11:59
Glad to see people working together toward a solution.

I would love to see a gh donation become the norm for selling stuff and for sure for GB's. If $5 were added to every cap set it would already be a good way there.

We can all edit our for sale listings to include a donation for each item sold. If it becomes the norm then I think it wouldn't feel burdensome and could be a good line of cash flow.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: dyrdevil on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:23:41
Glad to see people working together toward a solution.

I would love to see a gh donation become the norm for selling stuff and for sure for GB's. If $5 were added to every cap set it would already be a good way there.

We can all edit our for sale listings to include a donation for each item sold. If it becomes the norm then I think it wouldn't feel burdensome and could be a good line of cash flow.

With community vendors becoming increasingly popular and the rising trends in keycap prices I wonder if this would just drive people away from gh... 

edit : a donation option is an excellent way to do this, my comment applies more to the idea of a mandatory fee
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:25:44
I'm interested iMav, let's talk.

Please PM me if you need additional help. I am 100% on board with purchasing GH if it means not letting it fall into the wrong hands. I donít want this website turning into an ad-Infested cesspool.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: xondat on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:29:50
I'm interested iMav, let's talk.

Please PM me if you need additional help. I am 100% on board with purchasing GH if it means not letting it fall into the wrong hands. I donít want this website turning into an ad-Infested cesspool.

I am too.

It might be worth PMing iMav with a figure you're thinking of contributing (at least that's what I think is a decent way of working towards a solution lol).
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: fendent on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:31:47
I'd be happy to advise and partake on any technical aspects of a transition if need be. I'd also be willing to make semi-regular contributions to overhead.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: brianjking on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:34:38
I'm happy to help out on technical needs. I can't do much financially at the moment, but will definitely do what I can.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:39:35
Patreon or not, this is major overpaying for hosting. You do not need a dedicated server for this forum.

I'm on another board where they made the exact same claims, but forums are not all equal.  With the amount of traffic they get here, I'd not be surprised if that's needed for bandwidth.  Don't judge until you know what usage is like.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: maartenwut on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:40:33
I have never even noticed the donate button to be honest with you. That said, I think a cheaper server and a patreon page would help significantly.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:40:37
I'm interested iMav, let's talk.

Please PM me if you need additional help. I am 100% on board with purchasing GH if it means not letting it fall into the wrong hands. I donít want this website turning into an ad-Infested cesspool.

I am too.

It might be worth PMing iMav with a figure you're thinking of contributing (at least that's what I think is a decent way of working towards a solution lol).

PMíd. I will gladly purchase this site and turn it over to the capable mods and community. I will even pay the month to month costs without need of community contribution.

For obvious reasons, I would prefer to be a part of a community group that purchases the site. But I hope iMav at least a considers me a backup before giving up the site to a non-community based party. I will buy it at any time.  I may have not been there on day one but Iíll be damned if I sit around and watch this site go to hell.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:56:19
I'm interested iMav, let's talk.

Please PM me if you need additional help. I am 100% on board with purchasing GH if it means not letting it fall into the wrong hands. I donít want this website turning into an ad-Infested cesspool.

I am too.

It might be worth PMing iMav with a figure you're thinking of contributing (at least that's what I think is a decent way of working towards a solution lol).

PMíd. I will gladly purchase this site and turn it over to the capable mods and community. I will even pay the month to month costs without need of community contribution.

For obvious reasons, I would prefer to be a part of a community group that purchases the site. But I hope iMav at least a considers me a backup before giving up the site to a non-community based party. I will buy it at any time.  I may have not been there on day one but Iíll be damned if I sit around and watch this site go to hell.

100% on board for a community effort
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 01 July 2018, 13:59:35
I will say to look at what happened with Deskthority if you're thinking about transferring it to the community- they started out with an elaborate "let's do everything above the board" legal club structure and that added a fair bit of overhead.  They eventually just folded back into a "one guy owns it and takes donations" model.  Not sure what sort of hassles would be involved in setting up a non-profit in the US to run GH.

I wonder if it would be too absurd to ask the party interested in purchasing to make themselves known and pitch to the community.  That would let us have a window into their motives and the ability to theorize 'is this firm likely to be a trustworthy partner for many years, or are they just trying to buy relevance in a trend, then drop it all for fidget spinners next month?"
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:00:22
I will say to look at what happened with Deskthority if you're thinking about transferring it to the community- they started out with an elaborate "let's do everything above the board" legal club structure and that added a fair bit of overhead.  They eventually just folded back into a "one guy owns it and takes donations" model.  Not sure what sort of hassles would be involved in setting up a non-profit in the US to run GH.

I wonder if it would be too absurd to ask the party interested in purchasing to make themselves known and pitch to the community.  That would let us have a window into their motives and the ability to theorize 'is this firm likely to be a trustworthy partner for many years, or are they just trying to buy relevance in a trend, then drop it all for fidget spinners next month?"

willing to bet it's some random chinese company that isn't keyboard related at all
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: jackhumbert on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:06:03
I shot an email to Zeal about this as well, but I'd be happy to help contribute to keep things running as things are now. I think the Patreon in combination with community/vendor-based (and community-approved) ad buys could easily pay for the server costs. Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Oblotzky on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:09:57
I will say to look at what happened with Deskthority if you're thinking about transferring it to the community- they started out with an elaborate "let's do everything above the board" legal club structure and that added a fair bit of overhead.  They eventually just folded back into a "one guy owns it and takes donations" model.  Not sure what sort of hassles would be involved in setting up a non-profit in the US to run GH.

I wonder if it would be too absurd to ask the party interested in purchasing to make themselves known and pitch to the community.  That would let us have a window into their motives and the ability to theorize 'is this firm likely to be a trustworthy partner for many years, or are they just trying to buy relevance in a trend, then drop it all for fidget spinners next month?"

willing to bet it's some random chinese company that isn't keyboard related at all

Nah it's Razer, they'll try to suppress this niche before normies discover it and demand alu housings for 150$.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:14:19
I shot an email to Zeal about this as well, but I'd be happy to help contribute to keep things running as things are now. I think the Patreon in combination with community/vendor-based (and community-approved) ad buys could easily pay for the server costs. Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.

4 footer ads at $100/month each would cover it

just open it to community members

id rather have an ad for a GB than for corsair
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: jackhumbert on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:19:25
I shot an email to Zeal about this as well, but I'd be happy to help contribute to keep things running as things are now. I think the Patreon in combination with community/vendor-based (and community-approved) ad buys could easily pay for the server costs. Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.

4 footer ads at $100/month each would cover it

just open it to community members

id rather have an ad for a GB than for corsair

Definitely. There are larger vendors that it might be nice to get support from, though. We could limit those sort of sponsors/ads to one of the four or something too.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: oumakavoula on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:23:12
been lurking for over a year and never occured to me that there could be a financial problem, maybe had there been a donation indicator for the on going month cost would have got me and other people to donate
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: necromanx on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:29:46
I would like to expose my interest in buying the site as well...

1) I have no intentions to change the forums besides keeping the software / servers secure.  This forum serves a specific need in the community that currently is not covered anywhere else.
2) I would not change anything in the current moderator/administrator scheme.
3) I am interested in making the community grow by expanding beyond the forums.  (events, branding)
4) I am open to work with the community to figure out how to implement a method of paying for operational costs such as Patreon. 

Why?
This community plays multiple big roles in the community and I see a business perspective in that.  There is no way I would change anything to upset its users but I am certain that with my company we can make this community grow and profit from it one way or another.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:35:41
$10K for such a large and active niche community is a bargain, please be aware of it.

As I have mentioned, I am open to other offers.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Koriko on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:36:16
I shot an email to Zeal about this as well, but I'd be happy to help contribute to keep things running as things are now. I think the Patreon in combination with community/vendor-based (and community-approved) ad buys could easily pay for the server costs. Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.

4 footer ads at $100/month each would cover it

just open it to community members

id rather have an ad for a GB than for corsair

Regardless of any fundraising efforts, the owner is still massively overpaying for hosting this site. If the cost was brought down to reasonable levels, one month at the current rate could pay for three months at a more financially-optimized pricing solution. If your house is on fire, you don't keep building hoping to outbuild the fire, you attempt to put it out.

Patreon or not, this is major overpaying for hosting. You do not need a dedicated server for this forum.


I'm on another board where they made the exact same claims, but forums are not all equal.  With the amount of traffic they get here, I'd not be surprised if that's needed for bandwidth.  Don't judge until you know what usage is like.

There are plenty of larger forums and forum networks that aren't on dedicated servers. Curse comes to mind.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: donut_sauce on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:50:34
Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.
I like the idea of a having different "account" types offered.

I know this probably sounds awful and corporate-y but I do think it would create a constant revenue stream to pay for cost as opposed to just quick burst of donated cash.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: maartenwut on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:54:01
Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.
I like the idea of a having different "account" types offered.
  • Free (0$/mo)
  • Pro (4.99$/mo)- Allows GIF avatars, emojis, allows for requesting name change, whatever
  • Business (19.99$/mo)- Grants posting GBs, Ad space,etc..
I know this probably sounds awful and corporate-y but I do think it would create a constant revenue stream to pay for cost as opposed to just quick burst of donated cash.
Bad idea to essentially block community members from running group buys.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:55:49
Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.
I like the idea of a having different "account" types offered.
  • Free (0$/mo)
  • Pro (4.99$/mo)- Allows GIF avatars, emojis, allows for requesting name change, whatever
  • Business (19.99$/mo)- Grants posting GBs, Ad space,etc..
I know this probably sounds awful and corporate-y but I do think it would create a constant revenue stream to pay for cost as opposed to just quick burst of donated cash.
Bad idea to essentially block community members from running group buys.

good incentive to keep randoms from running bad GBs

see: AL1, 60S, those wood VEA wristrests, and more from within the past year
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:56:30
I would like to expose my interest in buying the site as well...

1) I have no intentions to change the forums besides keeping the software / servers secure.  This forum serves a specific need in the community that currently is not covered anywhere else.
2) I would not change anything in the current moderator/administrator scheme.
3) I am interested in making the community grow by expanding beyond the forums.  (events, branding)
4) I am open to work with the community to figure out how to implement a method of paying for operational costs such as Patreon. 

Why?
This community plays multiple big roles in the community and I see a business perspective in that.  There is no way I would change anything to upset its users but I am certain that with my company we can make this community grow and profit from it one way or another.

in favor

get in touch with zeal maybe
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: duckboi on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:56:44
Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.
I like the idea of a having different "account" types offered.
  • Free (0$/mo)
  • Pro (4.99$/mo)- Allows GIF avatars, emojis, allows for requesting name change, whatever
  • Business (19.99$/mo)- Grants posting GBs, Ad space,etc..

I know this probably sounds awful and corporate-y but I do think it would create a constant revenue stream to pay for cost as opposed to just quick burst of donated cash.

I will say Iím not a fan of this, it would turn away new members of the community and locking group buys to business accounts would stifle a lot of people from being able to do interesting projects.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: necromanx on Sun, 01 July 2018, 14:58:18
Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.
I like the idea of a having different "account" types offered.
  • Free (0$/mo)
  • Pro (4.99$/mo)- Allows GIF avatars, emojis, allows for requesting name change, whatever
  • Business (19.99$/mo)- Grants posting GBs, Ad space,etc..
I know this probably sounds awful and corporate-y but I do think it would create a constant revenue stream to pay for cost as opposed to just quick burst of donated cash.
Bad idea to essentially block community members from running group buys.

good incentive to keep randoms from running bad GBs

see: AL1, 60S, those wood VEA wristrests, and more from within the past year

There are other ways to have a little bit more control over GB quality but gating people out with little to no income but with a great idea would be a bad thing for the community. 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: xondat on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:02:54
$10K for such a large and active niche community is a bargain, please be aware of it.

As I have mentioned, I am open to other offers.

Do you want people to talk to you about a community based buy, or present what we talk about ourselves?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: donut_sauce on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:03:33
Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.
I like the idea of a having different "account" types offered.
  • Free (0$/mo)
  • Pro (4.99$/mo)- Allows GIF avatars, emojis, allows for requesting name change, whatever
  • Business (19.99$/mo)- Grants posting GBs, Ad space,etc..

I know this probably sounds awful and corporate-y but I do think it would create a constant revenue stream to pay for cost as opposed to just quick burst of donated cash.

I will say Iím not a fan of this, it would turn away new members of the community and locking group buys to business accounts would stifle a lot of people from being able to do interesting projects.
I don't know, I think there are a lot of examples of this working well (Discord has Nitro, Dribbble has Pro accounts) where the vast majority of users are free accounts.

I do agree that projects should not be hindered. Maybe IC's are free but launching a GB needs an account upgrade. Maybe there's no business account even.

All I'm saying is I like the idea of there being account types that cost something per month and give a couple perks to you meanwhile Geekhack gets to actually generate it's own income.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Poesjuh on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:08:15
First of all; sad to hear itís a struggle for you iMav. Iím a fairly new member I would say yet Gh has changed my life (and wallet mostly) forever. I do agree with you preferring it staying within the community! :)

Having that said, a paid subscription would not be my preferred solution. Itís not so much that Iím against paying for a forum Iím on a lot, but they all add up.

And the $20 a month option just to buy GBís is a killing machine imho. Not an assault, I do get the reasoning behind it. I think there are better solutions for that though. (For example; someone that runs a GB for the first time has to have someone with experience helping / councelling.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:13:13
I do agree that projects should not be hindered. Maybe IC's are free but launching a GB needs an account upgrade. Maybe there's no business account even.

There shouldn't be a paywall for GB running, because GBs can run free on MM and DT, so there would be no reason to ever run small buys here if you can do it free with other audiences.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:18:53
Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.
I like the idea of a having different "account" types offered.
  • Free (0$/mo)
  • Pro (4.99$/mo)- Allows GIF avatars, emojis, allows for requesting name change, whatever
  • Business (19.99$/mo)- Grants posting GBs, Ad space,etc..
I know this probably sounds awful and corporate-y but I do think it would create a constant revenue stream to pay for cost as opposed to just quick burst of donated cash.
Bad idea to essentially block community members from running group buys.

good incentive to keep randoms from running bad GBs

see: AL1, 60S, those wood VEA wristrests, and more from within the past year

There are other ways to have a little bit more control over GB quality but gating people out with little to no income but with a great idea would be a bad thing for the community.

i personally have almost no income, so i get it

im just kinda salty about people running bad GBs

its defo a bad idea now that ive thought about it more
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: _ODIN_ on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:21:28
I would be ok with a few adds on the site. Maybe a baneron the site.
The important thing is, that this site needs to stay in the hands of the community.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: necromanx on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:23:19
I would be ok with a few adds on the site. Maybe a baneron the site.
The important thing is, that this site needs to stay in the hands of the community.

Even with me showing my interest in buying, I 100% agree with this. 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:33:44
I encourage anyone interested in purchasing the site to PM me. 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Remsky on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:33:56
Heavily against gating GB's under account types. Discord nitro works because of emote and avatar incentives. You don't see discord forcing people to pay for nitro in order to start their own server. Locking GB opening rights to those with a paid account type is just going to drive people away. Besides, there is no gurantee that it will increase the quality of GB's anyway. Ivan was a moderator and look at how his buys turned out. People being smart, asking questions, and taking precautions is what exposes bad buys from good. Not paywalls.

tldr; Paywalls are a **** idea
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Halverson on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:34:31
Girlshark nudes to pay for site
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Corgiattackkk on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:34:53
I shot an email to Zeal about this as well, but I'd be happy to help contribute to keep things running as things are now. I think the Patreon in combination with community/vendor-based (and community-approved) ad buys could easily pay for the server costs. Having exclusive rewards/giveaways for the different contribution levels on Patreon could be a neat thing to try.

4 footer ads at $100/month each would cover it

just open it to community members

id rather have an ad for a GB than for corsair

I actually like this idea. It would bring attention to GB and vendors within our community and ad space being bought may also help bring attention to GB's that may be close to hitting MOQ that people may miss on the forums.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:37:45
I would prefer to keep GH how it is, just my personal opinion. No ads, GB fees, etc.

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Zeal on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:42:13
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: M on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:43:06
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.

MY MAN
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: necromanx on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:43:42
Huh that feels a bit rushy but please accept this message as my 15K offer.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: ramnes on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:45:53
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

wtf

rather make an Ebay auction at this point
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: xondat on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:46:27
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

So you want quick money instead of wanting the community to buy it?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:47:42
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

So you want quick money instead of wanting the community to buy it?

i mean... wouldn't you? he clearly needs the cash

cough
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: maartenwut on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:48:17
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

So you want quick money instead of wanting the community to buy it?

I think he just wanted to end this 'no I'll buy it' thing going on
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: xondat on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:49:14
If a group of community members can beat the offered price, I will gladly turn over the website to them.

I was hoping this'd be the case.

Oh well. I guess those banks cannot wait.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Poesjuh on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:54:56
I vote Necromanx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:55:34
I vote Necromanx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i think zeal has a better knowledge of how the site/community works
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:57:27
Regardless of who ends up with it, I just want it owned by members of the community.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: necromanx on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:58:37
I vote Necromanx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i think zeal has a better knowledge of how the site/community works

I am not even contesting that ;-)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: JoeriW on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:59:08
I find it very strange to just give it away like that without giving the other interested parties a chance to bid. Zeal got lucky he posted first but if I was one of the interested I would be pretty pissed right now.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Poesjuh on Sun, 01 July 2018, 15:59:52
I was mostly joking a bit, although I have every confidence in necromanx. Having that said, itís a bit weird to me how this went from ďletís find a solutionĒ to ďwhoever is the fastest with money gets itĒ. But Iím in no position to say anything about that really. All I can do is say Iím glad that it works out for you iMav and I hope that Zeal only makes changes that will improve it for the better of us all :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: necromanx on Sun, 01 July 2018, 16:02:27
I find it very strange to just give it away like that without giving the other interested parties a chance to bid. Zeal got lucky he posted first but if I was one of the interested I would be pretty pissed right now.

Not pissed at all.  I find it odd and even a tad scared by that motion. 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 16:03:56
I vote Necromanx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i think zeal has a better knowledge of how the site/community works

I am not even contesting that ;-)

if you did i'd just direct people's attention to post count
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Oblotzky on Sun, 01 July 2018, 16:09:13
Looking forward to how this will turn out, good luck Zeal!
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 01 July 2018, 16:19:15
I can only hope whoever ends up the new site owner will have the site's best interests in mind and will be a known entity with a positive history of involvement in the site, not a relatively (or entirely) unknown entity.  I'm glad to see Zeal toss his name into the hat.  I have personally seen a highly popular site fail when its owner silently sold it to a commercial company who had other plans for monetizing the traffic and knowledge base of the community.  The core community ended up moving to a new site, and the original site basically withered and died.  I also echo the earlier sentiment that some advance notice of this situation would have been common courtesy to offer at least to the moderation and administration team and also would have quite probably avoided the current predicament.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Yeoh on Sun, 01 July 2018, 16:26:26
I vote Necromanx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i think zeal has a better knowledge of how the site/community works

I am not even contesting that ;-)

if you did i'd just direct people's attention to post count

he said knowledge about the site, not time wasted on it.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Koriko on Sun, 01 July 2018, 16:27:49
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.
Congrats!

I vote Necromanx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i think zeal has a better knowledge of how the site/community works

I am not even contesting that ;-)

if you did i'd just direct people's attention to post count
Post count means nothing in terms of understanding how things work.

I was mostly joking a bit, although I have every confidence in necromanx. Having that said, itís a bit weird to me how this went from ďletís find a solutionĒ to ďwhoever is the fastest with money gets itĒ. But Iím in no position to say anything about that really. All I can do is say Iím glad that it works out for you iMav and I hope that Zeal only makes changes that will improve it for the better of us all :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm sure Zeal will do just fine, given his tenure in the community.

I can only hope whoever ends up the new site owner will have the site's best interests in mind and will be a known entity with a positive history of involvement in the site, not a relatively (or entirely) unknown entity.  I'm glad to see Zeal toss his name into the hat.  I have personally seen a highly popular site fail when its owner silently sold it to a commercial company who had other plans for monetizing the traffic and knowledge base of the community.  The core community ended up moving to a new site, and the original site basically withered and died.  I also echo the earlier sentiment that some advance notice of this situation would have been common courtesy to offer at least to the moderation and administration team and also would have quite probably avoided the current predicament.
This. The community could have definitely come up with a solution sooner if the community knew sooner. Not much can be done now that the problem is here. In the future, migrating off of 1&1 and lowering costs should still be a priority though.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: necromanx on Sun, 01 July 2018, 16:49:00
I am very confident that Zeal will threat this community the way it should and has absolutely no ill intentions.   So no need to question who what and why.  Imav will have his reasons for doing this fast and I am behind Zeal from now on.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Acereconkeys on Sun, 01 July 2018, 17:01:17
I'm relatively new to the community compared to some but I just want to take this thread to put to words how awesome this site is. In the days of instant content and low effort posts on sites like Reddit, geekhack has been a god send. It's amazing at facilitating long term projects/showcases. I've learned a lot about PCB design, keyboard design, and other topics here.

I don't know how Zeal plans to monetize if he does or if he's just going to tank the server costs to support the community.

I would like to put the suggestion out there that a "pro" version of the site with animated avatar/other cosmetic only benefits would be a good idea. I do not like the idea of adding a "pro" version to be able to run GBs, be a vendor, etc I think that would hurt the community that makes this site special.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 17:02:23
I'm relatively new to the community compared to some but I just want to take this thread to put to words how awesome this site is. In the days of instant content and low effort posts on sites like Reddit, geekhack has been a god send. It's amazing at facilitating long term projects/showcases. I've learned a lot about PCB design, keyboard design, and other topics here.

I don't know how Zeal plans to monetize if he does or if he's just going to tank the server costs to support the community.

I would like to put the suggestion out there that a "pro" version of the site with animated avatar/other cosmetic only benefits would be a good idea. I do not like the idea of adding a "pro" version to be able to run GBs, be a vendor, etc I think that would hurt the community that makes this site special.

$5 a month "plus" options have been popular all over the web
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Spaghetti on Sun, 01 July 2018, 17:14:09
I feel like 10k is an extreme lowball offer for such an established forum in a rapidly growing hobby/market
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 01 July 2018, 17:34:44
I will say to look at what happened with Deskthority if you're thinking about transferring it to the community- they started out with an elaborate "let's do everything above the board" legal club structure and that added a fair bit of overhead.  They eventually just folded back into a "one guy owns it and takes donations" model.  Not sure what sort of hassles would be involved in setting up a non-profit in the US to run GH.

I wonder if it would be too absurd to ask the party interested in purchasing to make themselves known and pitch to the community.  That would let us have a window into their motives and the ability to theorize 'is this firm likely to be a trustworthy partner for many years, or are they just trying to buy relevance in a trend, then drop it all for fidget spinners next month?"

That was more involved than that.  It basically went back to the previous owner when no one that was a member of 'the club' was actually doing anything, other than the previous owner.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 01 July 2018, 17:49:11
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.

That was fast.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 01 July 2018, 17:54:16
Best of luck to Zeal  :thumb:
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 01 July 2018, 18:06:37
Best of luck to Zeal  :thumb:

Ditto.

Though I won't lie, the "sold to the first to bid x" part would've been quite worrisome if someone that isn't Zeal (or other trustworthy, long time participants) were to have called dibs.

PS: Potentially obsolete at this point but I believe David/Necro (and mykeyboard in general) could also add a lot to the community, I'm absolutely not disputing Zeal's competence, I just mean that a change like this may open up doors for collaborations, ease of communication, etc. if more than one entity is allowed to be involved in any sort of capacity.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: mstarr on Sun, 01 July 2018, 18:10:56
Why are you selling the site? Do you not realize how much monetizing potential there is without fundamentally changing the site?  The majority of users have much disposable income and like to flex their e-peen.  Sell flairs or icons next to our name, take a cut from the hyper-inflated keycap market, offering creators / resellers advanced metrics in exchange, anything but selling it for cheap to a third party.  At least make sure it is an active community member that has less interest in turning a profit and more keeping the community alive.  I don't post much, but I do like reading, and I definitely don't want to be stuck reading the dribble of r/mechanicalkeyboards. 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Oblotzky on Sun, 01 July 2018, 18:23:06
Sell flairs or icons next to our name, take a cut from the hyper-inflated keycap market

I'll hire you instantly if I ever need a site be driven into the ground.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: mstarr on Sun, 01 July 2018, 18:48:31
Sell flairs or icons next to our name, take a cut from the hyper-inflated keycap market

I'll hire you instantly if I ever need a site be driven into the ground.

Would you prefer a more insidious and non-transparent method in funding the site?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 01 July 2018, 18:56:14
So geekhack should run much smoother now. Nice.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 01 July 2018, 18:58:33
Iím pretty disappointed with how this has all played out. I have absolutely no issues with Zeal, but weíre now in a position where a vendor owns the site, which completely goes against the conflict of interest policies weíve been operating under. I just really donít understand why the mod team couldnít be included in this in any capacity, Iím sure we could have found some alternate solutions to weigh in addition...
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:03:48
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.

I, for one, welcome our new overlord.

In all seriousness, I think new ownership would be a very good thing. I would only hope that GH is not auctioned off to the highest bidder. Zeal seems cool. Others, not so much.

The process in this thread is emblematic of why I think GH needs new ownership.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: xondat on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:15:47
Iím pretty disappointed with how this has all played out. I have absolutely no issues with Zeal, but weíre now in a position where a vendor owns the site, which completely goes against the conflict of interest policies weíve been operating under. I just really donít understand why the mod team couldnít be included in this in any capacity, Iím sure we could have found some alternate solutions to weigh in addition...

You've been great to quote today. Read my mind.

Bad situation all around, but I'm glad that Zeal is actually aware of what happens on the site, so I do look forward to seeing things improve.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:16:34
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.

I, for one, welcome our new overlord.

In all seriousness, I think new ownership would be a very good thing. I would only hope that GH is not auctioned off to the highest bidder. Zeal seems cool. Others, not so much.

The process in this thread is emblematic of why I think GH needs new ownership.

looks like im agreeing with one of proximity's posts again
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Signature on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:17:05
RIP ">>>Deals<<<" 2014-2018  :'(
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:17:57
RIP ">>>Deals<<<" 2014-2018  :'(

it's been just "deals" for months now
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Signature on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:18:35
RIP ">>>Deals<<<" 2014-2018  :'(

it's been just "deals" for months now
It just don't feel the same, I should have seen this coming
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:21:25
I find it very strange to just give it away like that without giving the other interested parties a chance to bid. Zeal got lucky he posted first but if I was one of the interested I would be pretty pissed right now.

I don't believe there is a long list of interested folks that could post up the requisite amount of money.  Note, the company that was willing to pay $10k gave me a limited timeframe...so, my urgency to sell to the community is based on that. 

Are you willing to pay more than $15k?  If not, then your objection is mere noise.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:22:27
I don't believe there is a long list of interested folks that could post up the requisite amount of money.  Note, the company that was willing to pay $10k gave me a limited timeframe...so, my urgency to sell to the community is based on that. 

Are you willing to pay more than $15k?  If not, then your objection is mere noise.

Has any decision/sale been made at this point?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:27:10
RIP ">>>Deals<<<" 2014-2018  :'(

That link has generated ZERO money, just so you know...

So geekhack should run much smoother now. Nice.

I won't disagree.  I worked hard to get this community off the ground...  The first 3-4 years was me posting and a handful of others...then it took off! 

Those that joined the community post-2010 have no clue what I put into the community.  I gave away (out of my own pocket) nearly $10k of keyboards to great contributors.  I built up the largest, english-speaking keyboard community on the web.  (note, Deskthority, and several other sites were built on the shoulders of what we did here)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Chigorin on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:27:53
I find it very strange to just give it away like that without giving the other interested parties a chance to bid. Zeal got lucky he posted first but if I was one of the interested I would be pretty pissed right now.

I don't believe there is a long list of interested folks that could post up the requisite amount of money.  Note, the company that was willing to pay $10k gave me a limited timeframe...so, my urgency to sell to the community is based on that. 

Are you willing to pay more than $15k?  If not, then your objection is mere noise.

Yes, I'd be willing to pay more than $15K, but I'd need some details on site metrics. DM me if it's still available
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:34:12
RIP ">>>Deals<<<" 2014-2018  :'(

That link has generated ZERO money, just so you know...

So geekhack should run much smoother now. Nice.

I won't disagree.  I worked hard to get this community off the ground...  The first 3-4 years was me posting and a handful of others...then it took off! 

Those that joined the community post-2010 have no clue what I put into the community.  I gave away (out of my own pocket) nearly $10k of keyboards to great contributors.  I built up the largest, english-speaking keyboard community on the web.  (note, Deskthority, and several other sites were built on the shoulders of what we did here)
iMav this place wouldn't exist without you and I'm sad to see you have to part ways with the forum like this.

My post was tongue in cheek as zeal has had multiple mx compatible switch variants made that are known for how smooth they are.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kekstee on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:40:49
Sad to see GH go down like this. It was nice while it lasted.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: romevi on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:44:04
RIP ">>>Deals<<<" 2014-2018  :'(

That link has generated ZERO money, just so you know...

So geekhack should run much smoother now. Nice.

I won't disagree.  I worked hard to get this community off the ground...  The first 3-4 years was me posting and a handful of others...then it took off! 

Those that joined the community post-2010 have no clue what I put into the community.  I gave away (out of my own pocket) nearly $10k of keyboards to great contributors.  I built up the largest, english-speaking keyboard community on the web.  (note, Deskthority, and several other sites were built on the shoulders of what we did here)
iMav this place wouldn't exist without you and I'm sad to see you have to part ways with the forum like this.

My post was tongue in cheek as zeal has had multiple mx compatible switch variants made that are known for how smooth they are.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

lol
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Dennyroxsox on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:46:09
I find it very strange to just give it away like that without giving the other interested parties a chance to bid. Zeal got lucky he posted first but if I was one of the interested I would be pretty pissed right now.

I don't believe there is a long list of interested folks that could post up the requisite amount of money.  Note, the company that was willing to pay $10k gave me a limited timeframe...so, my urgency to sell to the community is based on that. 

Are you willing to pay more than $15k?  If not, then your objection is mere noise.

Uhh what? Not sure how I got misquoted here... That comment was from a totally different person.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Colourr on Sun, 01 July 2018, 19:48:05
I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.

the man, the myth, the legend.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: trizkut on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:00:01
Would have been nice not to get blindsided like this, just like with >>>DEALS<<<.  I PMed saying I would contribute to a community-led offer, but received no response.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Krelbit on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:02:41
Welcome to Zeekhack.org everyone
Title: Potential community sale...
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:05:14
Iím pretty disappointed with how this has all played out. I have absolutely no issues with Zeal, but weíre now in a position where a vendor owns the site, which completely goes against the conflict of interest policies weíve been operating under. I just really donít understand why the mod team couldnít be included in this in any capacity, Iím sure we could have found some alternate solutions to weigh in addition...

It is kind of strange that the mod team wasnít consulted or informed about any of this before a post was made. Also itís kind of crazy how fast this transaction has happened. Itís not my business, or my website, but still strange.

Also, I completely agree about it probably not being a good idea for a community vendor to own the site itself. I love Zeal and I think that heís probably very capable, but I almost think that our reaction to immediately buy the site was a knee-jerk reaction in order to keep it from falling into possibly nefarious hands, due to how this transaction was starting to look. I think in this situation it could have been much, much worse. Iím actually grateful somebody was even given a chance to buy the site, as we have no idea who the other party was or their intentions.

I think that Geekhack has an incredibly bright future, and thatís all I want for it. I spend a lot of time here and I canít imagine life without it.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: ArchDill on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:19:21
I think that a community buy could work. With a clock ticking, it is just not feasible.

It could simply be ran like a GB for a percentage stake. Obviously, there would have to be restrictions (% of ownership cap). I think a lot of people would put in money to keep the site going and the money would be raised quick. Then a President, VP and "Board of Directors" (I am good with the mods) could be voted in. Having more people in the know would help things like this in the future. As many others have stated, I would like things to stay the same BUT, as Zeal posted earlier, there are things that could be capitalized on. He mentioned merch, which I think is a great idea. I would buy some. There could be designs donated as well as monthly shirts and stickers that would never be sold again. There are also vendors, artisans etc. that could do monthly raffles to help with the site costs (I think I saw Kudos mention that in Slack).

I hope the outcome still allows us to be able to be apart of this community based forum. I do not make caps or sell anything kb related etc. But I could help financially, with designs and just over all business knowledge.

EDIT: Personally, I do not think Zeal buying it would be the worst thing. The reality of the community being able to own it seems like a pipe dream.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: RobotRogue on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:21:33
Good on Zeal for stepping up and doing what I takes to keep the site alive and well. No clue why people have salty opinions about it to be honest. As far as I can tell Zeal has always been a stand-up vendor, and I'm pretty sure his interest in this site was one of keeping the community alive and well. Do I think he's gonna go around changing **** and paywalling stuff? No. That would kill his investment. The mods will be the same, the site will be the same, it might move to a new host but that's about it. Who cares if he's also a vendor? Makes no real difference in the end. So again, cool that someone wanted to step up and do what they could to keep this site going.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:29:46
Good on Zeal for stepping up and doing what I takes to keep the site alive and well. No clue why people have salty opinions about it to be honest. As far as I can tell Zeal has always been a stand-up vendor, and I'm pretty sure his interest in this site was one of keeping the community alive and well. Do I think he's gonna go around changing **** and paywalling stuff? No. That would kill his investment. The mods will be the same, the site will be the same, it might move to a new host but that's about it. Who cares if he's also a vendor? Makes no real difference in the end. So again, cool that someone wanted to step up and do what they could to keep this site going.

I think Zeal is a great member of the community, and Iím actually really glad he stepped up to buy it, given the circumstances. Not everyone in the community can do that with the snap of their fingers. It could have been anyone, and Iím just glad it fell into the hands of an honest community member.

I was merely voicing my sympathy towards the mods in this situation, and understanding their perspective on why they might not be pleased with a vendor taking over the site.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: wholypantalones on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:32:59
Welp, there goes the cost of 1 day DHL shipping from Canadia.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: futurecrime on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:34:24
Iím pretty disappointed with how this has all played out. I have absolutely no issues with Zeal, but weíre now in a position where a vendor owns the site, which completely goes against the conflict of interest policies weíve been operating under. I just really donít understand why the mod team couldnít be included in this in any capacity, Iím sure we could have found some alternate solutions to weigh in addition...

You've been great to quote today. Read my mind.

Bad situation all around, but I'm glad that Zeal is actually aware of what happens on the site, so I do look forward to seeing things improve.

I agree with all this. I'm very uncomfortable with a vendor owning the site, but it's done now so let's just hope this place doesn't lose it's magic.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: clasicks on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:45:06
vendor =/= devil.

zeal is an enthusiast and community member like the rest of us. It was not a planned business venture, it was a time and place decision to secure the continuation of said community as it stands.

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: SeedyOne on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:51:04
Good on Zeal for stepping up and doing what I takes to keep the site alive and well. No clue why people have salty opinions about it to be honest. As far as I can tell Zeal has always been a stand-up vendor, and I'm pretty sure his interest in this site was one of keeping the community alive and well. Do I think he's gonna go around changing **** and paywalling stuff? No. That would kill his investment. The mods will be the same, the site will be the same, it might move to a new host but that's about it. Who cares if he's also a vendor? Makes no real difference in the end. So again, cool that someone wanted to step up and do what they could to keep this site going.

I may not be as active as some, but it doesn't feel like people have an issue with Zeal specifically. Instead it's a combination of the sudden timing and the vendor aspect of it. I know on paper it doesn't sound like a big deal, but having been through similar in another hobby (autos/modding), I can tell you first hand that things can get messy fast. Even if said vendor is completely hands off and just pays the hosting fees, it opens the door for whispers of favoritism even if none exists. Or if say, "XYZ" random change is made to the site and it somehow affects "ABC" random vendor negatively. Even if it's an inadvertent thing, accusations and drama may ensue.

Mind you, these are just possibilities that open up when you have such a direct conflict of interest. If there was more time and more options, perhaps things would be different...and it's entirely possible that everything will go perfectly smooth if things continue as they are. That said, I can see the very real concerns that people have regarding this decision and don't blame them for bringing it up. I just hope we can keep it civil and realize that the end goal is keeping this great resource around for all of us.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:54:55
vendor =/= devil.

zeal is an enthusiast and community member like the rest of us. It was not a planned business venture, it was a time and place decision to secure the continuation of said community as it stands.

agree

zeal would be my pick over almost anyone

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 01 July 2018, 20:56:39
Plot twist Ripster buys GH.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Belfong on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:01:23
Firstly, I am grateful for iMav for building this community and forking out personal monthly expense to sustain the site. I think it must be super hard for him to sell it off - hey - who would want to see one's hardwork (which has no monetary returns) go to a company or other persons who are interested because of potential business opportunity, not because of the NGO and community? Secondly, I am glad Zeal stood up and went for it. Vendor or not vendor, he's known in GH and he appreciates how the community work so I think it will be in good hands.

If given time, having a few community people owning and running GH will be better but I am not sure how that will work out legally, I mean, how do you share ownership if it is not owned by a person or an entity?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:04:45
Plot twist Ripster buys GH.

Hahahaha.. I recall ripster is not particularly well coined.. 

But sure,  that would indeed be a major twist..

Tp4 has always been pro-ripstar.. 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Raqem on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:12:20
Given how quickly your offer was taken up, I bet you could have asked for the buyer to pay the PayPal fees, too. 
 
Then again, you did go from $10k to $15k, so I guess you already thought of that.  ;)
 
 /s
 ( ^---- in case anyone needed that )
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: HotRoderX on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:13:26
just my 2 cents as I am new but.. I think the sight owner had his reasons and bottom line is this. Unless someone was helping pony up cost to keep the sight running with the owner. Then they have no room to talk. We don't know his situation exactly. The only thing he said was he had 3 mortgages. Perhaps he has a very good reason to need to sell suddenly. People have there reason's and while it could have sucked it seems things have worked out for the best. Personally i am excited. I think the website could use a bit of a update. This gives it a chance. I know there have been some things people have complained about, including PM system, etc.

As far as Zeal goes, I don't see a issue what so ever. Zeal's not going to risk his reputation or his name to do anything questionable. Zeal is a very well known part of the community that is still relatively small.



Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:23:18
Iím pretty disappointed with how this has all played out. I have absolutely no issues with Zeal, but weíre now in a position where a vendor owns the site, which completely goes against the conflict of interest policies weíve been operating under. I just really donít understand why the mod team couldnít be included in this in any capacity, Iím sure we could have found some alternate solutions to weigh in addition...

You've been great to quote today. Read my mind.

Bad situation all around, but I'm glad that Zeal is actually aware of what happens on the site, so I do look forward to seeing things improve.

I agree with all this. I'm very uncomfortable with a vendor owning the site, but it's done now so let's just hope this place doesn't lose it's magic.

While itís still early stages, Iíve been talking to zeal and if things go well we will be working together to build a new modern purpose built geekhack. This is something I have been interested in doing for a while and started planning a month ago or something like that, so when I saw this thread it seemed like kismet.

Itís still super early. But my goal is to build a platform from scratch with support for modern browsers and Mobile devices. With proper search and such. I want interest checks and keyboards and group buys to be actual functional entities instead of just threads. They will still have comments and such, but I want them to actually have properties like prices and start and end dates and be searchable and filterable. So if you want to see all group buys ending this week, you just search ďgroup buys ending this weekĒ, the search engine supports contextual lookup, and since each GB has an actual end date, your search result would be just that. If you click on TGR, the TGR page could list all the TGR boards. Any TGR buys and ICs. Etc. I also want to support watchlists and smart notifications. If you want a LZ board, set a watch for LZ ICs, GBs and Classifieds, then get notifications (email, sms, possibly apps, etc).

We also discussed content management and our current plan is to continue with community moderation. Neither one of us has much interest in moderating the site ourselves, and it just makes avoiding any impropriety easier and helps make people more comfortable. My current though is we come up with some sort of rules/community bylaws and all agree to follow them. But there will need to be lots of feedback to get to the right destination.

This is only a small part of the complete idea, but I truly think we can make a better and more inclusive community site for everyone. In the short term I will work with zeal on updating and stabilizing the site. I expect it will be at least a few months of work before Iíve got a working platform and Iím ready to start a closed beta, but one of the things I want to commit to is ensuring continuity of all the existing data. I will likely setup an archive version of the old site as well, but my actual intention will be to migrate all legacy content into the new site to take advantage of all the new features like real search.

I also want to say I absolutely understand everyoneís concerns, but I just want to be clear, my goal start to finish is to make a better site for the community to help it grow and make everyoneís lives easier. I also do believe some form of minor monetization is important, because i would very much like to have servers in multiple regions to maximize perf and availability. And i think the site should be self sustaining and not worry about shutting down month to month. But more importantly I would love to find a way to set aside some funds to sponsor events, maybe a full scale keyboard convention, or run events like a prototype contest where people compete to design keyboards and then we buy prototypes for the winners. Iíd also love to have money available to help get more buys to moq. Now this is all my personal opinions and zeal might not agree with everything. If I make profit, that is what I plan to use it for. If there is no good way to do it, then Iíll let that part of my dream die.

That said, I am also completely cognizant that I am designing a site for everyone, not just myself. I absolutely want peoples feedback on what they want and donít want. I think we can find a balance to make the best site for everyone. Please tell me your ideas and concerns. Iíd like to do my best to consider and address as many of them as I can.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:27:58
Iím pretty disappointed with how this has all played out. I have absolutely no issues with Zeal, but weíre now in a position where a vendor owns the site, which completely goes against the conflict of interest policies weíve been operating under. I just really donít understand why the mod team couldnít be included in this in any capacity, Iím sure we could have found some alternate solutions to weigh in addition...

You've been great to quote today. Read my mind.

Bad situation all around, but I'm glad that Zeal is actually aware of what happens on the site, so I do look forward to seeing things improve.

I agree with all this. I'm very uncomfortable with a vendor owning the site, but it's done now so let's just hope this place doesn't lose it's magic.

While itís still early stages, Iíve been talking to zeal and if things go well we will be working together to build a new modern purpose built geekhack. This is something I have been interested in doing for a while and started planning a month ago or something like that, so when I saw this thread it seemed like kismet.

Itís still super early. But my goal is to build a platform from scratch with support for modern browsers and Mobile devices. With proper search and such. I want interest checks and keyboards and group buys to be actual functional entities instead of just threads. They will still have comments and such, but I want them to actually have properties like prices and start and end dates and be searchable and filterable. So if you want to see all group buys ending this week, you just search ďgroup buys ending this weekĒ, the search engine supports contextual lookup, and since each GB has an actual end date, your search result would be just that. If you click on TGR, the TGR page could list all the TGR boards. Any TGR buys and ICs. Etc. I also want to support watchlists and smart notifications. If you want a LZ board, set a watch for LZ ICs, GBs and Classifieds, then get notifications (email, sms, possibly apps, etc).

We also discussed content management and our current plan is to continue with community moderation. Neither one of us has much interest in moderating the site ourselves, and it just makes avoiding any impropriety easier and helps make people more comfortable. My current though is we come up with some sort of rules/community bylaws and all agree to follow them. But there will need to be lots of feedback to get to the right destination.

This is only a small part of the complete idea, but I truly think we can make a better and more inclusive community site for everyone. In the short term I will work with zeal on updating and stabilizing the site. I expect it will be at least a few months of work before Iíve got a working platform and Iím ready to start a closed beta, but one of the things I want to commit to is ensuring continuity of all the existing data. I will likely setup an archive version of the old site as well, but my actual intention will be to migrate all legacy content into the new site to take advantage of all the new features like real search.

I also want to say I absolutely understand everyoneís concerns, but I just want to be clear, my goal start to finish is to make a better site for the community to help it grow and make everyoneís lives easier. I also do believe some form of minor monetization is important, because i would very much like to have servers in multiple regions to maximize perf and availability. And i think the site should be self sustaining and not worry about shutting down month to month. But more importantly I would love to find a way to set aside some funds to sponsor events, maybe a full scale keyboard convention, or run events like a prototype contest where people compete to design keyboards and then we buy prototypes for the winners. Iíd also love to have money available to help get more buys to moq. Now this is all my personal opinions and zeal might not agree with everything. If I make profit, that is what I plan to use it for. If there is no good way to do it, then Iíll let that part of my dream die.

That said, I am also completely cognizant that I am designing a site for everyone, not just myself. I absolutely want peoples feedback on what they want and donít want. I think we can find a balance to make the best site for everyone. Please tell me your ideas and concerns. Iíd like to do my best to consider and address as many of them as I can.

Well ****, Iím sold.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Krelbit on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:28:54
Iím pretty disappointed with how this has all played out. I have absolutely no issues with Zeal, but weíre now in a position where a vendor owns the site, which completely goes against the conflict of interest policies weíve been operating under. I just really donít understand why the mod team couldnít be included in this in any capacity, Iím sure we could have found some alternate solutions to weigh in addition...

You've been great to quote today. Read my mind.

Bad situation all around, but I'm glad that Zeal is actually aware of what happens on the site, so I do look forward to seeing things improve.

I agree with all this. I'm very uncomfortable with a vendor owning the site, but it's done now so let's just hope this place doesn't lose it's magic.

While itís still early stages, Iíve been talking to zeal and if things go well we will be working together to build a new modern purpose built geekhack. This is something I have been interested in doing for a while and started planning a month ago or something like that, so when I saw this thread it seemed like kismet.

Itís still super early. But my goal is to build a platform from scratch with support for modern browsers and Mobile devices. With proper search and such. I want interest checks and keyboards and group buys to be actual functional entities instead of just threads. They will still have comments and such, but I want them to actually have properties like prices and start and end dates and be searchable and filterable. So if you want to see all group buys ending this week, you just search ďgroup buys ending this weekĒ, the search engine supports contextual lookup, and since each GB has an actual end date, your search result would be just that. If you click on TGR, the TGR page could list all the TGR boards. Any TGR buys and ICs. Etc. I also want to support watchlists and smart notifications. If you want a LZ board, set a watch for LZ ICs, GBs and Classifieds, then get notifications (email, sms, possibly apps, etc).

We also discussed content management and our current plan is to continue with community moderation. Neither one of us has much interest in moderating the site ourselves, and it just makes avoiding any impropriety easier and helps make people more comfortable. My current though is we come up with some sort of rules/community bylaws and all agree to follow them. But there will need to be lots of feedback to get to the right destination.

This is only a small part of the complete idea, but I truly think we can make a better and more inclusive community site for everyone. In the short term I will work with zeal on updating and stabilizing the site. I expect it will be at least a few months of work before Iíve got a working platform and Iím ready to start a closed beta, but one of the things I want to commit to is ensuring continuity of all the existing data. I will likely setup an archive version of the old site as well, but my actual intention will be to migrate all legacy content into the new site to take advantage of all the new features like real search.

I also want to say I absolutely understand everyoneís concerns, but I just want to be clear, my goal start to finish is to make a better site for the community to help it grow and make everyoneís lives easier. I also do believe some form of minor monetization is important, because i would very much like to have servers in multiple regions to maximize perf and availability. And i think the site should be self sustaining and not worry about shutting down month to month. But more importantly I would love to find a way to set aside some funds to sponsor events, maybe a full scale keyboard convention, or run events like a prototype contest where people compete to design keyboards and then we buy prototypes for the winners. Iíd also love to have money available to help get more buys to moq. Now this is all my personal opinions and zeal might not agree with everything. If I make profit, that is what I plan to use it for. If there is no good way to do it, then Iíll let that part of my dream die.

That said, I am also completely cognizant that I am designing a site for everyone, not just myself. I absolutely want peoples feedback on what they want and donít want. I think we can find a balance to make the best site for everyone. Please tell me your ideas and concerns. Iíd like to do my best to consider and address as many of them as I can.

TLDR MAKE GEEKHACK GREAT AGAIN

ZEAL 2018

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:32:33
Itís still super early. But my goal is to build a platform from scratch with support for modern browsers and Mobile devices. With proper search and such. I want interest checks and keyboards and group buys to be actual functional entities instead of just threads. They will still have comments and such, but I want them to actually have properties like prices and start and end dates and be searchable and filterable. So if you want to see all group buys ending this week, you just search ďgroup buys ending this weekĒ, the search engine supports contextual lookup, and since each GB has an actual end date, your search result would be just that. If you click on TGR, the TGR page could list all the TGR boards. Any TGR buys and ICs. Etc. I also want to support watchlists and smart notifications. If you want a LZ board, set a watch for LZ ICs, GBs and Classifieds, then get notifications (email, sms, possibly apps, etc).

We also discussed content management and our current plan is to continue with community moderation. Neither one of us has much interest in moderating the site ourselves, and it just makes avoiding any impropriety easier and helps make people more comfortable. My current though is we come up with some sort of rules/community bylaws and all agree to follow them. But there will need to be lots of feedback to get to the right destination.

This is only a small part of the complete idea, but I truly think we can make a better and more inclusive community site for everyone. In the short term I will work with zeal on updating and stabilizing the site. I expect it will be at least a few months of work before Iíve got a working platform and Iím ready to start a closed beta, but one of the things I want to commit to is ensuring continuity of all the existing data. I will likely setup an archive version of the old site as well, but my actual intention will be to migrate all legacy content into the new site to take advantage of all the new features like real search.

If you can pull even a fraction of this off I am all for it. I don't use Add-Blocker and I will happily generate revenue for you guys.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: SeedyOne on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:33:01
I’m pretty disappointed with how this has all played out. I have absolutely no issues with Zeal, but we’re now in a position where a vendor owns the site, which completely goes against the conflict of interest policies we’ve been operating under. I just really don’t understand why the mod team couldn’t be included in this in any capacity, I’m sure we could have found some alternate solutions to weigh in addition...

You've been great to quote today. Read my mind.

Bad situation all around, but I'm glad that Zeal is actually aware of what happens on the site, so I do look forward to seeing things improve.

I agree with all this. I'm very uncomfortable with a vendor owning the site, but it's done now so let's just hope this place doesn't lose it's magic.

While it’s still early stages, I’ve been talking to zeal and if things go well we will be working together to build a new modern purpose built geekhack. This is something I have been interested in doing for a while and started planning a month ago or something like that, so when I saw this thread it seemed like kismet.

It’s still super early. But my goal is to build a platform from scratch with support for modern browsers and Mobile devices. With proper search and such. I want interest checks and keyboards and group buys to be actual functional entities instead of just threads. They will still have comments and such, but I want them to actually have properties like prices and start and end dates and be searchable and filterable. So if you want to see all group buys ending this week, you just search “group buys ending this week”, the search engine supports contextual lookup, and since each GB has an actual end date, your search result would be just that. If you click on TGR, the TGR page could list all the TGR boards. Any TGR buys and ICs. Etc. I also want to support watchlists and smart notifications. If you want a LZ board, set a watch for LZ ICs, GBs and Classifieds, then get notifications (email, sms, possibly apps, etc).

We also discussed content management and our current plan is to continue with community moderation. Neither one of us has much interest in moderating the site ourselves, and it just makes avoiding any impropriety easier and helps make people more comfortable. My current though is we come up with some sort of rules/community bylaws and all agree to follow them. But there will need to be lots of feedback to get to the right destination.

This is only a small part of the complete idea, but I truly think we can make a better and more inclusive community site for everyone. In the short term I will work with zeal on updating and stabilizing the site. I expect it will be at least a few months of work before I’ve got a working platform and I’m ready to start a closed beta, but one of the things I want to commit to is ensuring continuity of all the existing data. I will likely setup an archive version of the old site as well, but my actual intention will be to migrate all legacy content into the new site to take advantage of all the new features like real search.

I also want to say I absolutely understand everyone’s concerns, but I just want to be clear, my goal start to finish is to make a better site for the community to help it grow and make everyone’s lives easier. I also do believe some form of minor monetization is important, because i would very much like to have servers in multiple regions to maximize perf and availability. And i think the site should be self sustaining and not worry about shutting down month to month. But more importantly I would love to find a way to set aside some funds to sponsor events, maybe a full scale keyboard convention, or run events like a prototype contest where people compete to design keyboards and then we buy prototypes for the winners. I’d also love to have money available to help get more buys to moq. Now this is all my personal opinions and zeal might not agree with everything. If I make profit, that is what I plan to use it for. If there is no good way to do it, then I’ll let that part of my dream die.

That said, I am also completely cognizant that I am designing a site for everyone, not just myself. I absolutely want peoples feedback on what they want and don’t want. I think we can find a balance to make the best site for everyone. Please tell me your ideas and concerns. I’d like to do my best to consider and address as many of them as I can.

That's one hell of an information drop. Regardless of opinions on how this all is going down, I'm sure we all appreciate you sharing it. Best of luck! 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: shantanujoshi on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:40:53
 :blank:
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: NAV on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:42:16
Anyone else stop to think that this **** seems so incredibly forced?

No mod involvement
Rapid sale within a day
Zeal instantly buys it
Amnesia reveals some master game plan that's somehow been formulated in the last 3 hours.

I'm skeptical as **** about all of this, it's shady as hell. I support iMav in his decision to sell, as nobody should have to shoulder that $300 cost to run the site by themselves. But this ****? This is so shady.

At the end of the day, it's iMav's site and he can choose to sell it how he pleases, but I'm not really convinced this wasn't some grand plan.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Belfong on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:47:36
Whatever platform you are choosing, be sure that it is able to support the "thousands of people start posting at 3pm EST" during a Clack / Bro Caps sale.. because if your platform can't do this, then, it's the wrong platform for Geekhack.

And please, don't turn it into Reddit like! omg!
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Siegx on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:50:26
Monetized or not, I believe Zeal shares the goal to maintain and expand the community, seeing how his livelihood is in direct dependency of it. I do hope, however, that he's able to keep his business interests separate and keep the GH marketplace fair and neutral between all vendors.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: shantanujoshi on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:51:45
Anyone else stop to think that this **** seems so incredibly forced?

No mod involvement
Rapid sale within a day
Zeal instantly buys it
Amnesia reveals some master game plan that's somehow been formulated in the last 3 hours.

I'm skeptical as **** about all of this, it's shady as hell. I support iMav in his decision to sell, as nobody should have to shoulder that $300 cost to run the site by themselves. But this ****? This is so shady.

At the end of the day, it's iMav's site and he can choose to sell it how he pleases, but I'm not really convinced this wasn't some grand plan.

I'm interested in buying it. Would love to make this something the community would enjoy that isn't just a reddit cluster **** or monetization play.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:52:08
:blank:

Accurate.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: superdoedoe on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:53:00
Anyone else stop to think that this **** seems so incredibly forced?

No mod involvement
Rapid sale within a day
Zeal instantly buys it
Amnesia reveals some master game plan that's somehow been formulated in the last 3 hours.

I'm skeptical as **** about all of this, it's shady as hell. I support iMav in his decision to sell, as nobody should have to shoulder that $300 cost to run the site by themselves. But this ****? This is so shady.

At the end of the day, it's iMav's site and he can choose to sell it how he pleases, but I'm not really convinced this wasn't some grand plan.

Amnesia's been working on this master plan of his for months by this stage. So it's nothing new.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Sun, 01 July 2018, 21:57:58
Anyone else stop to think that this **** seems so incredibly forced?

No mod involvement
Rapid sale within a day
Zeal instantly buys it
Amnesia reveals some master game plan that's somehow been formulated in the last 3 hours.

I'm skeptical as **** about all of this, it's shady as hell. I support iMav in his decision to sell, as nobody should have to shoulder that $300 cost to run the site by themselves. But this ****? This is so shady.

At the end of the day, it's iMav's site and he can choose to sell it how he pleases, but I'm not really convinced this wasn't some grand plan.

Amnesia's been working on this master plan of his for months by this stage. So it's nothing new.

To be clear. I have been planing my own site for a while. Cause I think itís needed. This seemed like a great chance to partner and make something better for everyone and make adoption smoother.

You are welcome to be paranoid. But I am already a successful full time developer. This is something I want to do. Not some get rich quick scheme.

I love keyboards. I believe my current count is 19 and growing.

I want more sets. More boards. More people. That is my goal. If you want to see ulterior motives. I canít stop you, but thatís not me. Your paranoia is not unfounded. I get that. But at least give us a chance.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: xondat on Sun, 01 July 2018, 22:00:09
Anyone else stop to think that this **** seems so incredibly forced?

No mod involvement
Rapid sale within a day
Zeal instantly buys it
Amnesia reveals some master game plan that's somehow been formulated in the last 3 hours.

I'm skeptical as **** about all of this, it's shady as hell. I support iMav in his decision to sell, as nobody should have to shoulder that $300 cost to run the site by themselves. But this ****? This is so shady.

At the end of the day, it's iMav's site and he can choose to sell it how he pleases, but I'm not really convinced this wasn't some grand plan.

First two parts are shady as **** to me.

I think Zeal just wants to make sure the community is safe. And Amnesia has explained himself.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: gorbachev on Sun, 01 July 2018, 22:05:37
I don't know your traffic numbers, but you should be able to cover several months (couple of years?) worth of costs with a simple sponsorship model without actually having to relinquish the ownership to anyone.

Any keyboard vendor/manufacturer that has big product launches coming up spend WAY more than that for marketing. Given geekhack's prominence in the community, I would think sponsorship on your site would fetch a pretty nice premium.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: HotRoderX on Sun, 01 July 2018, 22:11:48
Anyone else stop to think that this **** seems so incredibly forced?

No mod involvement
Rapid sale within a day
Zeal instantly buys it
Amnesia reveals some master game plan that's somehow been formulated in the last 3 hours.

I'm skeptical as **** about all of this, it's shady as hell. I support iMav in his decision to sell, as nobody should have to shoulder that $300 cost to run the site by themselves. But this ****? This is so shady.

At the end of the day, it's iMav's site and he can choose to sell it how he pleases, but I'm not really convinced this wasn't some grand plan.

to be blunt honest this is the way things look to me. Perhaps playing a bit of devil advocate

No mod involvement: Mods are amazing they do a great service to the community. Bottom line is this.. the mods aren't required to help pay for the servers. CEO goes to sell a company he doesn't ask the mangers what they think. IMav was the CEO of Geek Hack he was paying for it totally out of pocket.

Rapid sale within a day. We don't know whats going on. Perhaps IMav had bills come due. Perhaps he about to lose his house are needs medical attention. We don't know all we can do is assume it wasn't something he decided on during a whim but either something that was forced on to him, are something he has given a lot of thought to. This has been his baby for years. I am sure giving it up on a whim isn't a thing. Know what if it was on a whim which doubt! Then the community is better off as a whole.

Zeal instantly buys it: Zeal's not a idiot Zeal's a savvy business man. He not going to do anything to upset a small community who is his bread and butter. Anything this was a power play to gainer more support from said community. I know personally I will be looking at Zeal switches a lot harder for my next build. This has fostered a lot of good well least in my book.

Amnesia reveals some master game plan that's somehow been formulated in the last 3 hours: This parts been explained. Sounds like this was for the best otherwise the community might have been split up. Perhaps now the community can stay in one place and we can get some upgrades.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: noisyturtle on Sun, 01 July 2018, 22:15:48
well if GH does change for the worse at least it'll be fun to help burn it down while it's on fire

we love a good fire sale around here
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 01 July 2018, 22:28:27
Amnesia reveals some master game plan that's somehow been formulated in the last 3 hours: This parts been explained. Sounds like this was for the best otherwise the community might have been split up. Perhaps now the community can stay in one place and we can get some upgrades.

This part's questionable to me. I'm all for positive change and change for the better, I'm just not entirely sure how ethical (or productive) it would be to build your own dreamland which you've been working on for x amount of time on someone else's turf. Saying "it's for the best" is a little drastic in my opinion, seems entirely too early to tell what exactly Amnesia's plan actually is, how it'd work and how that would affect existing platforms and communities.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 01 July 2018, 22:30:33
finally the keyboard lounge's time to shine
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Sun, 01 July 2018, 22:39:11
Amnesia reveals some master game plan that's somehow been formulated in the last 3 hours: This parts been explained. Sounds like this was for the best otherwise the community might have been split up. Perhaps now the community can stay in one place and we can get some upgrades.

This part's questionable to me. I'm all for positive change and change for the better, I'm just not entirely sure how ethical (or productive) it would be to build your own dreamland which you've been working on for x amount of time on someone else's turf. Saying "it's for the best" is a little drastic in my opinion, seems entirely too early to tell what exactly Amnesia's plan actually is, how it'd work and how that would affect existing platforms and communities.

Iím not quite sure what you mean. I want to make a better keyboard site. So when I saw it was bought by zeal, I figure would be reasonable and someone I could work with. So why not reach out and see if he is interested in a partnership.

I was not working on geekhack 2. I am currently designing database schemas and the backend. Still a ways to go to actually have a functional site, but I actually bought the domain keyboard.exchange to use. This is all searchable in the kb-kustoms channel on discord.

Since zeal was interested, and this site already is the one the community uses. Why not work together instead of both of us working for the same goals. I build enterprise distributed systems for a living. I was never worried about my idea succeeding because I am actually quite confident. But why kill your opponent when you can make them your ally instead?

I just want to make everything more streamlined and usable.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 01 July 2018, 22:51:23
Tp for mod 2018.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 01 July 2018, 22:52:30
I'm all for tweaks but I don't want to see a full overhaul
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Sun, 01 July 2018, 23:03:22
I'm all for tweaks but I don't want to see a full overhaul

I'm not quite sure what the issue is with a complete overhaul if the content is migrated. There is only so much that can be done with SMF and it will not support the features I would like to. I totally get change can be painful, but there is no good way to "fix" this site. In my line of work we refer to the problem of this site as "Technical Debt" and the amount of technical debt this site possess is far to much to use it as the foundation for a more complete platform. It literally would take 2-3x as long at MINIMUM to even start building the site I want to through SMF.

I have no intention of removing content, or killing features, so I am kind of curious what your concern is. I could literally build the site to be 100% identical to GH on the front end and fully modern on the back-end if i needed to, to the point that you would literally be unable to tell I changed anything. I don't really see the value of that though. What part of SMF do you think is worth saving?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: fendent on Sun, 01 July 2018, 23:18:21
I don't get this whole paranoia thing, nav. If Zeal and iMav had been working secretly behind the scenes what difference would it make if one day we woke up with a purple themed GH and iMav waving goodbye? What do you propose benefits anybody by making this such a public ruse?

To amnesia's goals though: I too work in software. What you're proposing is lofty as all hell. How long do you think something like this would take? Are you willing to shoulder resolution of tickets when critical functionality breaks? There's a reason people pick mature software for high load websites. Because when your site starts going down or loading slowly, that hit counter starts ticking down and you lose members permanently. It's a reason why radical shifts are not to be undertaken lightly.

Upgrading to a more modern/feature-rich threaded forum software should be in the cards, certainly. Augment that and grow from there so you're not having to reroll core functionality for solved problems.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Sun, 01 July 2018, 23:40:00
To amnesia's goals though: I too work in software. What you're proposing is lofty as all hell. How long do you think something like this would take? Are you willing to shoulder resolution of tickets when critical functionality breaks? There's a reason people pick mature software for high load websites. Because when your site starts going down or loading slowly, that hit counter starts ticking down and you lose members permanently. It's a reason why radical shifts are not to be undertaken lightly.

Upgrading to a more modern/feature-rich threaded forum software should be in the cards, certainly. Augment that and grow from there so you're not having to reroll core functionality for solved problems.

It absolutely is ambitious, but I work exclusively on enterprise systems that CAN'T fail or we lose mountains of money. I am not building a single box website, I am building a distributed highly redundant and highly available website, and yes, I am totally open to being on call. Let's not act like the current version of Geek Hack never experiences downtime. I am EXTREMELY confident I can achieve my goals and produce a site that will be fast and MORE reliable than the current iteration. I also have several coworkers who are also willing to work with me to help build and manage the platform. Being on call is nothing new or unusual to me. If something isn't 5-9s, it's not reliable enough.

All "modern" threaded forum software is bloatware to the nth degree.

And regardless, if my site isn't good and stable or people don't like it, it's not as if we can't kill it and just use some random ****ty forum software, but why? Most of the things people ACTUALLY use GH for are not core forum functions. Why not make something that focuses on the way people use the site and then build the discussions around them?

There is nothing particularly complex about a forum. What type of problems are you worried about that would relate to the forum functionality?

I just think you should at least give it a shot and see what I make before you dismiss it from the get-go.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Sun, 01 July 2018, 23:48:47
I look forward to Amnesia's proposed upgrades. GeekHack is one of the ****tiest platforms I use, it desperately needs overhauling and some of it's issues are systemic, not something that can be fixed, something that needs to be changed on a core, fundamental level. Starting over from scratch would be greatly preferable to tacking on half-fixes and extra crap.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Belfong on Sun, 01 July 2018, 23:48:58
The new forum discussion should be spawned off as another topic. I just want to know if Zeal is our new Overlord or not?


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Potential community sale...
Post by: fendent on Sun, 01 July 2018, 23:52:47
To amnesia's goals though: I too work in software. What you're proposing is lofty as all hell. How long do you think something like this would take? Are you willing to shoulder resolution of tickets when critical functionality breaks? There's a reason people pick mature software for high load websites. Because when your site starts going down or loading slowly, that hit counter starts ticking down and you lose members permanently. It's a reason why radical shifts are not to be undertaken lightly.

Upgrading to a more modern/feature-rich threaded forum software should be in the cards, certainly. Augment that and grow from there so you're not having to reroll core functionality for solved problems.

It absolutely is ambitious, but I work exclusively on enterprise systems that CAN'T fail or we lose mountains of money. I am not building a single box website, I am building a distributed highly redundant and highly available website, and yes, I am totally open to being on call. Let's not act like the current version of Geek Hack never experiences downtime. I am EXTREMELY confident I can achieve my goals and produce a site that will be fast and MORE reliable than the current iteration. I also have several coworkers who are also willing to work with me to help build and manage the platform. Being on call is nothing new or unusual to me. If something isn't 5-9s, it's not reliable enough.

All "modern" threaded forum software is bloatware to the nth degree.

And regardless, if my site isn't good and stable or people don't like it, it's not as if we can't kill it and just use some random ****ty forum software, but why? Most of the things people ACTUALLY use GH for are not core forum functions. Why not make something that focuses on the way people use the site and then build the discussions around them?

There is nothing particularly complex about a forum. What type of problems are you worried about that would relate to the forum functionality?

I just think you should at least give it a shot and see what I make before you dismiss it from the get-go.

I wouldnít say Iím dismissing it. But I have been involved in many ambitious, well-meaning ďcommunity projectsĒ that have gone south either through ill-preparation or an overly-positive outlook of the required resources it would take to maintain after launch (if they ever got to that point).

Mostly my hope would be that the ability to maintain, patch, and manage such a system could be spread across multiple people for the sake of the hit-by-a-bus factor.

Also, donít discount that, simply put, new things are not comfortable for people. This community, while may be better served by tailor-built functionality, is very much used to the way things are done here. You rock the boat too much and youíre in danger of tipping it over. Iíd worry about GH basically being turned into Massdropís talk section, ya know? Just cause some things are less efficient or require shoehorning of process doesnít mean theyíre bad.

Again, not putting down what youíve had in mind, but simply try to note that building software that is the platform of a community with longstanding roots has a lot of factors that arenít well represented in other software modalities. Letís be intentional while keeping some of these things in mind.


Edit: to be clear, i agree on every point about every forum software being bloated lol
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: mstarr on Sun, 01 July 2018, 23:53:04
So there is suddenly a quick sale of a website and a vendor just happens to have a fully formed business plan on how to take it over.  No input from moderators either.  This is the death of GH and y'all are cheering for it.  Please submit your group buy fees to zeal now and transfer all copyright of How-Tos and guides.


Whatever the **** this dude is planning it is to make money off this website.  He already does it by bring a vendor.  He wants to profit, not share cool input hardware.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 02 July 2018, 00:06:11
I think many of us are wary about advertisements, outside interests, and data collection.  As we all should be in this age.

This is a tech-savvy oriented site, and the architecture is arcane despite most of our backgrounds. Sure it works, but it could also be better no doubt.

But if the cost of that means this site going commercial it defeats the very nature of GH being a free platform for sharing and creating amongst a close-knit community.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: NAV on Mon, 02 July 2018, 00:11:06
I don't get this whole paranoia thing, nav. If Zeal and iMav had been working secretly behind the scenes what difference would it make if one day we woke up with a purple themed GH and iMav waving goodbye? What do you propose benefits anybody by making this such a public ruse?



My "paranoia" as many people have put it is simply a concern that this move is being done in a relatively hurried, secretive manner. I'm not attempting to imply that Zeal is unfit to host GH. Without prior knowledge of how long Amnesia has been planning his own site, that coupled with the rapid decision making made the entire situation seem extremely fishy.

At the end of the day, as I said before, it's iMav's site and he can do with it as he pleases. My concern is rooted in the fact that there have been a great multitude of community members who have offered to step up and either host it themselves, or form a community leadership that hosts the site. I am a firm believer that this 'sale' is entirely too rushed, and warrants a good discussion involving key members of the community and the moderation team, who have put their own time and effort into making sure GH stays GH. A FCFS sale is disingenuous and disheartening to see, and it's my opinion that the decision was made far too quickly.

Regarding my comments towards Amnesia's plans: I made the mistake of employing sarcasm during that last point, but further comments have all but solidified my concerns. It was meant to imply that there has been a lot of planning behind the scenes, and that this transfer is in part to make that plan realized. The immediate decision to implement Amnesia's game plan:

"While itís still early stages, Iíve been talking to zeal and if things go well we will be working together to build a new modern purpose built geekhack."

is questionable, and becomes even more questionable in the grand scheme of things, when you look at how this GH acquisition is taking place.

Who knows, I might be completely off base and that things just happened to fall in place absolutely perfectly, but right now I'm going to maintain some skepticism regarding this whole thing.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 00:15:35
To amnesia's goals though: I too work in software. What you're proposing is lofty as all hell. How long do you think something like this would take? Are you willing to shoulder resolution of tickets when critical functionality breaks? There's a reason people pick mature software for high load websites. Because when your site starts going down or loading slowly, that hit counter starts ticking down and you lose members permanently. It's a reason why radical shifts are not to be undertaken lightly.

Upgrading to a more modern/feature-rich threaded forum software should be in the cards, certainly. Augment that and grow from there so you're not having to reroll core functionality for solved problems.

It absolutely is ambitious, but I work exclusively on enterprise systems that CAN'T fail or we lose mountains of money. I am not building a single box website, I am building a distributed highly redundant and highly available website, and yes, I am totally open to being on call. Let's not act like the current version of Geek Hack never experiences downtime. I am EXTREMELY confident I can achieve my goals and produce a site that will be fast and MORE reliable than the current iteration. I also have several coworkers who are also willing to work with me to help build and manage the platform. Being on call is nothing new or unusual to me. If something isn't 5-9s, it's not reliable enough.

All "modern" threaded forum software is bloatware to the nth degree.

And regardless, if my site isn't good and stable or people don't like it, it's not as if we can't kill it and just use some random ****ty forum software, but why? Most of the things people ACTUALLY use GH for are not core forum functions. Why not make something that focuses on the way people use the site and then build the discussions around them?

There is nothing particularly complex about a forum. What type of problems are you worried about that would relate to the forum functionality?

I just think you should at least give it a shot and see what I make before you dismiss it from the get-go.

I wouldnít say Iím dismissing it. But I have been involved in many ambitious, well-meaning ďcommunity projectsĒ that have gone south either through ill-preparation or an overly-positive outlook of the required resources it would take to maintain after launch (if they ever got to that point).

Mostly my hope would be that the ability to maintain, patch, and manage such a system could be spread across multiple people for the sake of the hit-by-a-bus factor.

Also, donít discount that, simply put, new things are not comfortable for people. This community, while may be better served by tailor-built functionality, is very much used to the way things are done here. You rock the boat too much and youíre in danger of tipping it over. Iíd worry about GH basically being turned into Massdropís talk section, ya know? Just cause some things are less efficient or require shoehorning of process doesnít mean theyíre bad.

Again, not putting down what youíve had in mind, but simply try to note that building software that is the platform of a community with longstanding roots has a lot of factors that arenít well represented in other software modalities. Letís be intentional while keeping some of these things in mind.


Edit: to be clear, i agree on every point about every forum software being bloated lol


Oh I totally wanna make sure itís well documented and such. To be honest, once itís up and running, Iím open to making it open source if zeal is. And either way, once Iím further along Iím open to engaging more people on the backend as well.

I just am not comfortable with being open source to start since I need to get a core built and get the site up and reliable. And Iíd worry about someone stealing it and beating me to the punch. But Iím totally down to let people help develop the platform if they want to and we can figure out the right way to go about it and pick a good license model.

Also to keep in mind, the reason massdrop is bad is because massdrop is in fact customized box software lol.

I donít imagine most people actually realize that tho lol.

I plan to do several rounds of betas and usability testing before I open it up to the masses. But my goal is a more intuitive easier to use site that is MORE accessible to the masses. You talk about all the users of the site, but ignore all the people who refuse to use it because itís an antiquated forum platform. Keeping things the same because it keeps people comfortable is just an odd way to move forward. People were used to horses until those evil mechanized carriages came along.

Iím also not going to reengineer everything. Iíll probably find a good prebuilt text editor for example. Complex JS like that is hard and there is little benefit to doing it myself. Or for the automated graphing for GBs for example, Iíll use an existing graph library like chart.js or tao.

One of the main reasons I want to avoid box software is I plan to build on nosql and I really donít feel like maintaining a sql database and a nosql database just to support a platform that is 90% functionality I wonít use.

Iím investigating all the options in google and aws as well, but Iím leaning heavily towards something like Cosmos DB so I can just let azure manage region replication and synchronization and can scale up as needed.

I also just hate sql (though I may still end up using it if it better fits my design once I have more of the schema designed).

As to build and patch. I will build everything to be easily redeployable and rebuildable. There will likely also be a staging environment. That I can fork a small amount of traffic to for build validation before it goes wide. I firmly believe in repeatable deployments and a good build and deployment pipeline.

Iím designing for enterprise scale.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: hansichen on Mon, 02 July 2018, 00:18:21
I vote Necromanx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i think zeal has a better knowledge of how the site/community works

Especially on how to make as much money as possible out of a community. Not sure if people really want such a sellout here.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: HotRoderX on Mon, 02 July 2018, 00:22:36
Just wanted to say some of the people and there entitlement is becoming a bit extreme. I get it when you invested into a website you grow emotionally attached but! Remember pull your selfs back a bit. Conspiracy theory stuff is stupid. Whats fishy about anything he has done? He owns the website he owes no one anything. He never gotten any monitory gain from the sight other then donations. Which are donations not stock shares. I mean he could have just closed geekhack. He could have sold geekhack with out saying a word. He could have given the sight away to a bunch of people that wanted to turn it into a razor enthusiast sight.

My point is he really didn't have to keep the sight going or explain he was selling it. This is really kinda stupid and most likely why he gone dark. The more he say's the more people will come out of the wood works to manipulate his every word to fit there idea of what went down. The website will either live or it will die. Personally I think it will live on and strive.

There was nothing fishy dude wanted to sell something he owned. The way some people are acting.. I could just see if someone called them out on mechmarket saying it was fishy how they sold there keyboard. There property so quickly and for such a amount and to XYZ blah blah.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 00:27:12
I think many of us are wary about advertisements, outside interests, and data collection.  As we all should be in this age.

This is a tech-savvy oriented site, and the architecture is arcane despite most of our backgrounds. Sure it works, but it could also be better no doubt.

But if the cost of that means this site going commercial it defeats the very nature of GH being a free platform for sharing and creating amongst a close-knit community.

And this is why one of my pending projects is to learn GDPR. But I can already say there will be multiple layers of encryption. You will be able to see and choose how your data is used. You will have privacy options and you will be able to remove you data at any time should you choose.

I also reject the notion that a commercial platform can not be good for community. Twitch is a commercial platform. Discord is a commercial platform.

The platform will still be free, and it will still be managed by the community. There may be specific new enhancements and features that end up being premium, but we have no intention of handicapping users who donít want them. Or taking away core functionality.

We are considering many models in regard to monetization, Iím sure we can find one where most everyone is happy and the site can run without concern for staying up or zeal or me going out of pocket monthly to keep it up.

My initial budget for my own site was going to be around 500 a month to start.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 02 July 2018, 00:40:50
I think iMav is truly a kind soul

Edit: I feel bad on so many fronts, personally paying $300/month to maintain a product only I use, I can't imagine how hard it was not to monetise Geekhack with ads, having to sell for $15k, I'm sure like many, I'd love to buy too, $300/month is really nothing for something so majestic, and $15k is an instant buy just for the collectible value, I mean, we are a community with various members who spent $15k+ for keyboards alone, my spending should be around $5k
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Khers on Mon, 02 July 2018, 01:26:40
While I absolutely respect and understand the decision; if GH is sold, I request a killswitch to easily remove an account and all its associated posts from the site. Would be quite tedious to delete every post one by one.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 01:30:37
While I absolutely respect and understand the decision; if GH is sold, I request a killswitch to easily remove an account and all its associated posts from the site. Would be quite tedious to delete every post one by one.

Did I not just literally say that?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Acereconkeys on Mon, 02 July 2018, 01:31:33
While I absolutely respect and understand the decision; if GH is sold, I request a killswitch to easily remove an account and all its associated posts from the site. Would be quite tedious to delete every post one by one.

Please please please have this as your final option. I would absolutely hate to see all the amazing information/resources contained in this forum disappear because of this. That would be horrible for the hobby. There was a lot of learning and trial and error that took place here that would be a real shame to lose. I know I've learned a lot.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 02 July 2018, 01:34:30
While I absolutely respect and understand the decision; if GH is sold, I request a killswitch to easily remove an account and all its associated posts from the site. Would be quite tedious to delete every post one by one.

This kind of response is the new fad these days

------

Thinking about this sale, I wonder whether it was pre-planned and theatricated - if not - the bastards that tried to buy GH for $10k, and further bastardly tried to rush it deserve to be punished, I once sold a product like this when I was young, it's a mistake everyone should do only once
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Fire Brand on Mon, 02 July 2018, 01:39:01
While I absolutely respect and understand the decision; if GH is sold, I request a killswitch to easily remove an account and all its associated posts from the site. Would be quite tedious to delete every post one by one.

Did I not just literally say that?
You ever thought people ainít actually reading your walls of text
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 01:41:56
While I absolutely respect and understand the decision; if GH is sold, I request a killswitch to easily remove an account and all its associated posts from the site. Would be quite tedious to delete every post one by one.

Did I not just literally say that?
You ever thought people ainít actually reading your walls of text

Reading is too hard now?

Fine TLDR: I will follow GDPR requirements of which the right to be forgotten is one.

Is that too many words?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: romeo on Mon, 02 July 2018, 01:46:42
I think people tend to stick with the things they are familiar. Out of all the shiny new features that amnesia mentioned, if the price of that is the site moving toward commercial then I'd say it's not a good deal at least to me. 
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Remsky on Mon, 02 July 2018, 02:16:18
I think people tend to stick with the things they are familiar. Out of all the shiny new features that amnesia mentioned, if the price of that is the site moving toward commercial then I'd say it's not a good deal at least to me.
If the model of the new site is something akin to discord nitro then I see no problem with it
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 02 July 2018, 02:16:22
I just hope that we don't go the digg way. Or the reddit way. Just think of how many redesign the site has gone through, and none of those have the needed functionalities. When you have threads, you lose collapse, and when you have previews, you lose something else.
Changing things that work is just not very intelligent in my opinion.
I have nothing against zeal, but is it so difficult to raise 15'000 dollars when we spend much more than that on the ugliest of the ugliest group buys??
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: joey on Mon, 02 July 2018, 02:19:09
I don't like the idea of a complete redesign, would much rather just leave it pretty much as it is.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: nmur on Mon, 02 July 2018, 02:32:28
I don't like the idea of a complete redesign, would much rather just leave it pretty much as it is.

yeah

surely priority #1 is getting the existing site running for the foreseeable future, as it is

if new and/or improved things are desired, they could be changed iteratively

gh isn't the perfect site by any means, but people are here because of what it is, and what it has been. if people prefer a different format, there are different sites that have already been established (deskthority, subreddits, slacks, discords, etc)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: AndyTC on Mon, 02 July 2018, 02:42:27
100% agree with a complete redesign.

To the people against it; do you actually use GH? It's horribly outdated and lacks tons of functionally that you should expect from any forum made within the last 10 years

It is one of the main reasons that Geekhack has been dying in the last 5years, whilst the hobby has been rapidly growing.
https://i.imgur.com/1ylu5pL.png



Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: 1Weeb on Mon, 02 July 2018, 03:18:27
Forum sites like this are what have kept me from making a GH account in the first place.

They just feel so outdated and can be confusing to navigate with all the small text and crap everywhere. Notifications suck and the chain quotes just look stupid, seriously what the fuk. I'm sure there's a more modern alternative to forums so I'd definitely love any sort of redesign better than this.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Belfong on Mon, 02 July 2018, 04:05:28
Instead of building from ground up, why not use Discourse? It is open source and free and pretty modern.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 02 July 2018, 04:39:43
0.1$ ecpm = 30k$ yearly

3-5$ ecpm would make millions :(

even a ****ty 0.01$ ecpm makes $15k a steal

much jelly i am
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 02 July 2018, 04:43:58
0.1$ ecpm = 30k$ yearly

3-5$ ecpm would make millions :(

even a ****ty 0.01$ ecpm makes $15k a steal

much jelly i am

we should buy it
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: The_Boom_Boy on Mon, 02 July 2018, 04:50:02
hmmm
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 02 July 2018, 05:02:20
0.1$ ecpm = 30k$ yearly

3-5$ ecpm would make millions :(

even a ****ty 0.01$ ecpm makes $15k a steal

much jelly i am

we should buy it

you know like in some online games, you see some item on the market, you're like, daamn this is too good to be true, in that confusion you spend 5-10 seconds thinking, then click buy, and receive the "Item is gone/already bought" message

Well it's like that :D
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: dgneo on Mon, 02 July 2018, 05:34:02
I'm on board to help in any way possible.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 02 July 2018, 05:36:02
Please, please, please do not turn this into an enterprise dev's side project. That would be a fate worse than just shutting GH down.

Keep it hosted on reliable hardware, then get your software engineering kicks elsewhere. Find a more modern forum software if you must and write plugins for it. Keep it patched and contribute back to that open source software's mainline.

But, if you really do want someone to over-engineer a forum, at least open source it from the beginning so people can pick it up when it languishes and is forgotten.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 July 2018, 05:45:54
Tp4's gekHa interface looks like this..


//Recommend, should be the default after the overhaul..


Gray font on Black Back..

NO BLOAT..



Deskthority has alot more features and such, but they're not critical to communication.

Trim Gekha down to be slim.   NOT increase features which makes the interface messy.


[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 02 July 2018, 05:49:41
Please, please, please do not turn this into an enterprise dev's side project. That would be a fate worse than just shutting GH down.

Keep it hosted on reliable hardware, then get your software engineering kicks elsewhere. Find a more modern forum software if you must and write plugins for it. Keep it patched and contribute back to that open source software's mainline.

But, if you really do want someone to over-engineer a forum, at least open source it from the beginning so people can pick it up when it languishes and is forgotten.

Don't worry and no need for hysteria and passive insults, apart from all the confusion and empty talk (typical forum stuff :), Zeal is the best, I'm sure he will do what's best

He still sells Ivan Dolch DB Spacebars: https://zealpc.net/collections/keycap-sets/products/dolch - I've been buying them from him for years, that tells something about his dedication to maintenance :)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Coreda on Mon, 02 July 2018, 05:53:15
Instead of building from ground up, why not use Discourse? It is open source and free and pretty modern.

For some sites it has worked but for others it's hurt the soul of the site. Doesn't help that every single Discourse community I've come across looks virtually identical. That said, out of the box its stock look with a dark theme is preferable to Xenforo's imo.

100% agree with a complete redesign.

To the people against it; do you actually use GH? It's horribly outdated and lacks tons of functionally that you should expect from any forum made within the last 10 years

I'd argue it looks more outdated than it necessarily is. The only thing actually functionally necessary is a mobile spreadsheet. In some respects like its PM categorization feature even modern board software like Xenforo and Discourse lack anything similar.

Edit: it's already been sold to Zeal? Well, guess we'll see how things pan out. Wish I could export all my posts in the meantime.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: wholypantalones on Mon, 02 July 2018, 05:56:30
Please, please, please do not turn this into an enterprise dev's side project. That would be a fate worse than just shutting GH down.

Keep it hosted on reliable hardware, then get your software engineering kicks elsewhere. Find a more modern forum software if you must and write plugins for it. Keep it patched and contribute back to that open source software's mainline.

But, if you really do want someone to over-engineer a forum, at least open source it from the beginning so people can pick it up when it languishes and is forgotten.

That's what popped into my mind when I read that incredibly myopic statement.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Mon, 02 July 2018, 06:08:25
Tp4's gekHa interface looks like this..

No orange?  (I just died a little inside...)

:)

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Mon, 02 July 2018, 06:09:09
No sale is yet final, BTW.  Things are still being worked...so stand by.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: amnesia0287 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 06:39:04
Tp4's gekHa interface looks like this..


//Recommend, should be the default after the overhaul..


Gray font on Black Back..

NO BLOAT..



Deskthority has alot more features and such, but they're not critical to communication.

Trim Gekha down to be slim.   NOT increase features which makes the interface messy.


(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Just 2 things. First. That gray on black theme actually makes my eyes hurt. But that said, I plan to make whatever site I end up building support user theme customizing, so you are welcome to suffer if thatís your prerogative.

Second. There is some confusion on what I mean by modern. I do not mean a specific style, but rather the idea of making an adaptable ux that works on all devices. The actual UX will designed by a graphics designer, I will just be implementing that look. Ideally we will likely do a few concepts and take few polls and votes and such. Perhaps even implement a few. Because all of the data will be API driven, there are almost infinite possibilities of how the actual interface could look of function.

One of the ideas Iíve thrown around (wouldnít be upfront) would be a retro.geekhack.com page that would essentially look just like the page now, but offer all the new search functionality and other new features of the new backend.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 July 2018, 06:49:07

Just 2 things. First. That gray on black theme actually makes my eyes hurt. But that said, I plan to make whatever site I end up building support user theme customizing, so you are welcome to suffer if thatís your prerogative.


amnesia0287.

Your monitor is probably running much hotter than Tp4's

Tp4 is calibrated to 60cd brightness.

The monitor is 99.8% srgb @ 1.2de,



So, yea, a screenshot from my pc might look whack on your end..


But my point is,  keep it simple,  text communication really does not require a florid interface.

If we implement some of the newer forum softs, they all have very complicated features that peeps simply won't take the time to learn/use,  yet these features will take up screen real-estate and cognitive visual processing capacity by the user.


When you see a complicated scene, the mind has to suppress the information that is not relevant to the information you're after.   This is a high processing cost on the brain..



I guess the best analogy is,   lean GekHa towards Zen Garden,  vs Hawaiian shirt.






Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 July 2018, 06:51:41
Tp4's gekHa interface looks like this..

No orange?  (I just died a little inside...)

:)



Hahaha..  I'm fine with more orange, but the color replacement plugin doesn't let me pick and choose.

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Mon, 02 July 2018, 06:53:09
LOL to everything in this thread.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Brammm87 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 07:31:47
Just caught up with the thread and for what my two cents are worth, here they are:

- I am highly confident Zeal only has GH's best interests at heart.

- I think people are confusing amnesia and Zeal. All we've heard is that Amnesia had a grand masterplan for a while now and with the possible sale now, has approached Zeal to merge his plan into GH. We've not heard anything from Zeal about this.

- Amnesia, I think you're being a little too overzealous (heh). As fendent has said: rock the boat too much... Hell, we all spend time on Facebook and Reddit, the pitchforks are out as soon as people so much as get a whiff of change. Be very mindful of that, especially if you talk about just replacing the entire site. Hell, we're only talking about the user base. But you better make sure you still have a moderator crew to help run things. They're very used to their moderation tools and work flows, change that too much and they just might end up saying "you know, this thing we've been doing voluntarily, forget about it".

Parts of the things you're describing make a lot of sense (a nice searchable index of ICs, GBs...) but those should probably be a separate site imo. If code would be written to replace the current forum, I strongly and highly agree that it should be open-sourced from the start with a proper review process.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: hayt on Mon, 02 July 2018, 07:56:40
Great discussion here imo. If nothing else, this shines a light on our beloved Geekhack.

I wanted to comment on the userbase and trends that have changed the way GH has been used over the years:

[attachimg=1]

When I look at this data, I don't necessarily see a "dying" website as much as one where the actual amount of conversations have waned. From a page view and new member perspective, seems pretty steady. As someone who is a relatively new member of 2 and a half years, I always felt like I missed the "good ole days" of GH. That said, this site is a treasure trove of useful information, archival photography, DIY guides, and of course Group Buys. That's what I love most about the community, we make our own dank ****.

Using myself as an example, even though I have less than 400 posts in GH, I believe the majority of the conversations are now happening in Slack and Discord. For instance:

I have over 2,790 files uploaded in Keyboard Community Slack
[attachimg=2]

And 347 pages of conversation in Mech Keys Artisans channel
[attachimg=3]


The point is, maybe we aren't actively using Geekhack as much anymore, but the community is thriving and a GH still plays a large role there.

Before we jump into discussions around changing or fixing Geekhack, can we put our heads together to identify any insights about our community that could help better focus what needs changing (if anything)?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 02 July 2018, 08:10:09
Tbh the only thing that needs fixing is the messaging.

Other than that I dont see the issue with the site. Doesn't seem terribly outdated from using it over 2 years here. It's easier to use than people are making it out to be.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: clasicks on Mon, 02 July 2018, 08:29:21
Tbh the only thing that needs fixing is the messaging.

Other than that I dont see the issue with the site. Doesn't seem terribly outdated from using it over 2 years here. It's easier to use than people are making it out to be.

right? for now just let the major players work out the specifics. There is literally nothing we can do now that iMav has decided to sell.

GH isnt going anywhere. Don't take anyone's word on anything, other than the new OWNER.


If we want to speculate: I see zeal purchasing, bills change names, and everything remains stagnant. Good on Amnesia for having goals and ideas from the get go, being willing to share and discuss possible features, but lets be realistic, the implementation of brand new site will take quite some time.

Money will be paid, server(s) will be "moved", GH will be GH just with a new name on the bill.




Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: ppp on Mon, 02 July 2018, 08:43:52
Tbh the only thing that needs fixing is the messaging.

Other than that I dont see the issue with the site. Doesn't seem terribly outdated from using it over 2 years here. It's easier to use than people are making it out to be.

+1

I don't think that it's too bad. Sure there are some small QoL things that could be better but hey, any website has those. I don't want some garbage "oh we're so responsive and modern" website that runs like poop.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: shadowrealmwarez on Mon, 02 July 2018, 08:50:05
Is the site being sold to recoup funds that have been put into the site? Why not turn the site over to someone who has resources to host it or disposable income to pay for said hosting instead of selling the site to new owners?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Zuology on Mon, 02 July 2018, 08:50:36
Tbh the only thing that needs fixing is the messaging.

Other than that I dont see the issue with the site. Doesn't seem terribly outdated from using it over 2 years here. It's easier to use than people are making it out to be.

+1

I don't think that it's too bad. Sure there are some small QoL things that could be better but hey, any website has those. I don't want some garbage "oh we're so responsive and modern" website that runs like poop.

You act like this site doesn't run like garbage 20% of the time already, hours/day-long downtime, etc.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: helpful on Mon, 02 July 2018, 08:59:26

if they replace the mods im leaving

I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.

@zeal can you replace the mods so that puddsy will leave ... please.

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: clasicks on Mon, 02 July 2018, 09:00:39

if they replace the mods im leaving

I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.

@zeal can you replace the mods so that puddsy will leave ... please.

sigh... another 8 post warrior. Atleast puddsy participates.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: fanpeople on Mon, 02 July 2018, 09:01:37
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: ppp on Mon, 02 July 2018, 09:05:42
@zeal can you replace the mods so that puddsy will leave ... please.

what's wrong with puddsy? just because his opinion might be different from yours sometimes? :|

next people will want tp to leave.. rip oniongifs
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 09:09:23
I do not have strong opinions one way or the other but a few thoughts I have from reading the first couple of pages.
I have other thoughts but nothing that I can put into words at the moment.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: hineybush on Mon, 02 July 2018, 09:19:20
I'm on-board with the whole situation, I'm glad GH will still be around for the forseeable future.

Two things:
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: romevi on Mon, 02 July 2018, 09:24:48
At least please make "geekwhack.org" and "ripster.com" redirect to gh.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: fanpeople on Mon, 02 July 2018, 09:44:49
At least please make "geekwhack.org" and "ripster.com" redirect to gh.

Just tried ripster.com "403 Forbidden"
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: fendent on Mon, 02 July 2018, 09:46:04
At least please make "geekwhack.org" and "ripster.com" redirect to gh.

Just tried ripster.com "403 Forbidden"

Banned from own website!! Will this tomfoolery never end!

Somebody better edit the wiki...
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: dgneo on Mon, 02 July 2018, 09:51:52
imo nothing wrong with a redesign, just make these forums live behind geekhack.org/forums or something, and use the main page for the new 'redesign'.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 02 July 2018, 10:00:29
why are so many against the idea of a Geekhack facelift? we haven't even seen any mockups yet, and the features mentioned by Amnesia can only be good things as long as he can implement them in a design that satisfies a vast majority of the userbase. he even said he'll implement a retro.gh if necessary but it's like nobody even read the posts. i don't know about you guys, but some features here are begging to be fixed, namely the awful PM system and the search function that's even worse than the phpBB equivalent. then there are the little things like the bland and low-res icons all over the site, as well as the tiiiiny go to last unread post on Spy. we're usually a positive bunch on here, so please don't overreact until we have a good idea of what we're in for.

also the swiftness of the deal surprised me. guess we gotta wait for a statement from Zeal to clear the air
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Ail on Mon, 02 July 2018, 10:14:56
While I absolutely respect and understand the decision; if GH is sold, I request a killswitch to easily remove an account and all its associated posts from the site. Would be quite tedious to delete every post one by one.

Come on, really? Isn't this a bit petulant?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: TheInverseKey on Mon, 02 July 2018, 10:42:56
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Coreda on Mon, 02 July 2018, 11:00:33
why are so many against the idea of a Geekhack facelift?

Fwiw I've been using Frenir's userstyle (https://userstyles.org/styles/102943/geekhack-2-0-by-frenir) on geekhack for the last four years, which improves the default considerably. To your point though, with a change of board software there almost universally comes a change in theme, mostly since few I've seen have the time, patience, or skills to recreate anything existing and so go with the defaults + tweaks. Just depends how successfully the spirit of the board is carried across. Part of the current charm (to me at least) is also some of the when-the-web-was-simpler stylings of the smileys and such, but I'm also using a userstyle that strips parts to their most basic so I recognize it may be easier to arrive at something that feels right with the right elements.

In a recent case one forum completed a redesign and changed the backend to Discourse and it made the single most important and helpful member's contributions drop completely overnight. But there are quote notifications, in-place loading and likes so it can be labeled properly modern. A plus in various ways but obviously shows how it can affect people differently.

..then there are the little things like the bland and low-res icons all over the site, as well as the tiiiiny go to last unread post on Spy. we're usually a positive bunch on here, so please don't overreact until we have a good idea of what we're in for.

This is also fixable with stylesheets and alternate graphics, as is a mobile view, and anything visual tbh.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kiwi99 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 11:45:00
Fwiw I've been using Frenir's userstyle (https://userstyles.org/styles/102943/geekhack-2-0-by-frenir) on geekhack for the last four years, which improves the default considerably...

where has this been all my life, even something as simple as this is a very nice change  :))
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: zslane on Mon, 02 July 2018, 11:59:01
This site needs to continue on. We can't leave the hobby in entirely in the hands of /r/mech...  :p
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 12:05:36
This site needs to continue on. We can't leave the hobby in entirely in the hands of /r/mech...  :p

Deskthority (and many of the non-English forums like KBDMania) would like to have a word with you.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Fire Brand on Mon, 02 July 2018, 12:07:30
While I absolutely respect and understand the decision; if GH is sold, I request a killswitch to easily remove an account and all its associated posts from the site. Would be quite tedious to delete every post one by one.

Did I not just literally say that?
You ever thought people ainít actually reading your walls of text

Reading is too hard now?

Fine TLDR: I will follow GDPR requirements of which the right to be forgotten is one.

Is that too many words?
No that's just the right amount of words

don't be ratty with people, because they didn't read your apparently self-important statement in response to Khers then you going "Did I not just literally say that?"
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 02 July 2018, 12:08:38
This site needs to continue on. We can't leave the hobby in entirely in the hands of /r/mech...  :p

There are so many other good forums for keyboards outside of reddit.  :rolleyes:

edit: Even reddit looks like the pearly gates compared to discord.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: sony on Mon, 02 July 2018, 12:36:34
yes, we always have discord  :))
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 12:38:38
Kinda crummy that not even 30 among us have been willing to donate 10$ a month. This potential sale, on the 2nd anniversary of the beloved >>>>D E A L S<<<< installation, seems to have blindsided some?? Fundraising was brought up then but did anyone do anything about it?

I dislike change but I know it may be for the best as far as growth. I hope that a thorough archive, the moderation team and some of the classic charm remain through the new ownership/site revamp.

My only suggestion is to work closely with artisans on what would make Geekhack the best/main place for them to host their sales/keep people updated. I'm not sure a better chat system could be implemented that people would prefer more than slack/discord.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: hineybush on Mon, 02 July 2018, 12:40:56
I'm not sure a better chat system could be implemented that people would prefer more than slack/discord.

I suggested an official GH Discord server last night on the r/mk one during discussion about this whole topic, but everyone kinda came to the agreement that it'd just turn into another server to ****post in. Maybe a simple shoutbox would work with the forum.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 02 July 2018, 12:47:09
Everytime that someone brought up the profitability of gh, he has been dismissed and told that there's no such problem and that the income was enough.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Ail on Mon, 02 July 2018, 12:52:22
Kinda crummy that not even 30 among us have been willing to donate 10$ a month. This potential sale, on the 2nd anniversary of the beloved >>>>D E A L S<<<< installation, seems to have blindsided some?? Fundraising was brought up then but did anyone do anything about it?

Exactly, people could have been donating this entire time to keep it running status quo. Now that it is too late and being sold, people want to get upset and start offering ideas, or monetary contribution. On top of that Mav could have just took the $10,000 offer and let the site fall into the hands of someone only interested in money and not the hobby, but went the extra step to offer it up to someone from the community who was willing to beat the offer. Then when a respected member and enthusiast accepts his offer people are still mad because he isn't the guy they wanted, or that's not community owned enough for them.

I don't think anyone has a right to be indignant about this situation.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 02 July 2018, 13:14:30
Fwiw I've been using Frenir's userstyle (https://userstyles.org/styles/102943/geekhack-2-0-by-frenir) on geekhack for the last four years

I love this. Keeps the original charm of GH imo and looks very clean. Thanks!
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 02 July 2018, 13:30:24
I think that some technical upgrades and added features are long long long overdue, and we have been interested in having those implemented as well as proposing changes internally, but with the way things are currently set up historically, the site basically runs as is on the bare minimum, and we make do and implement changes to make the best of the limited functionality we have.  The "feature requests" thread is sad to read, as we would have loved many new features, but it's been out of our hands.  I truly wish we could have had upgrades all along that did not come out of the opportunities provided by this too-sudden and, I daresay, reckless quick sale.

At first I walked away from this thread hoping for the best, but seeing the responses and how things have been playing out, here are my few cents.

It's very disheartening to see people making bids on the community we've worked hard on for years to maintain and manage, and we are now treated as some sidelines commodity, including by some posts here from people who are all like "I've got MY ideas for how things will run, and someone else can do the moderation, because I'm not interested".  That's not how things have worked here--the admin and mod team have operated as a team, and any changes don't come lightly.  They require feedback and revision to make sure they fit the community and the site and are not just whims of "wouldn't it be cool if".  We've learned long ago that people can react very strongly and negatively to even small changes, and everything we do has to answer a question of "is this really necessary?  how is it going to improve the community, or will it just create unnecessary busywork?"  This is a community of respectable age and heritage now, and the sale is turning from server hosting to some concept of ownership of the whole community, which is baffling to me. 

All due respect to imav for starting this community and running the physical server afterwards, but he's been MIA from the actual site for many many years, completely out of touch with the people who manage it for him--for free, donating lots and lots of personal time and dealing with things a lot of others wouldn't want to deal with (we get very very few moderator applications--they are quite rare, in fact).  To show that the highest bidder gets the server AND is now basically welcome to do whatever they want with it, with no appropriate advance warning for the community or at least talking to people who have been managing the site to date to help ensure a smoother transition, or discussing options that wouldn't turn into some bidding war, is not what I would call caring about the community or one's legacy.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: dgneo on Mon, 02 July 2018, 14:00:59
(we get very very few moderator applications--they are quite rare, in fact).

This isn't the place, but I've been holding this in for months now, for what it's worth i got the runaround from ghostjuggernaut for MONTHS, on two separate occasions, about becoming a moderator after both him and hoffman supposedly wanted me on board.

Apparently he couldn't get a hold of any other moderators to do the interviews, so I'm not sure if either it's as rare as you make it sound, or no one was willing to put in the work.

And re:
Quote
Kinda crummy that not even 30 among us have been willing to donate 10$ a month. This potential sale, on the 2nd anniversary of the beloved >>>>D E A L S<<<< installation, seems to have blindsided some?? Fundraising was brought up then but did anyone do anything about it?

Between the SSL Cert lapsing for days, the site randomly going down, many inactivate subforums not being cleaned up, etc. I personally didn't feel it was worth the investment, it seems more like the money would just go to iMav and nothing would get done.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 02 July 2018, 14:07:02
(we get very very few moderator applications--they are quite rare, in fact).

This isn't the place, but I've been holding this in for months now, for what it's worth i got the runaround from ghostjuggernaut for MONTHS, on two separate occasions, about becoming a moderator after both him and hoffman supposedly wanted me on board.

Apparently he couldn't get a hold of any other moderators to do the interviews, so I'm not sure if either it's as rare as you make it sound, or no one was willing to put in the work.

Indeed, this isn't the time and the place--especially considering that yours was one of a literal small handful across a year or two and my point still very much stands, but I was under the impression that you were explained why your mod application was not accepted.  If not, please feel free to PM me.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 14:30:19
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LastingQuestionableCamel-size_restricted.gif)

A little bit of comedic relief, considering how high tensions have been.  :))
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: dgneo on Mon, 02 July 2018, 14:48:14
(we get very very few moderator applications--they are quite rare, in fact).

This isn't the place, but I've been holding this in for months now, for what it's worth i got the runaround from ghostjuggernaut for MONTHS, on two separate occasions, about becoming a moderator after both him and hoffman supposedly wanted me on board.

Apparently he couldn't get a hold of any other moderators to do the interviews, so I'm not sure if either it's as rare as you make it sound, or no one was willing to put in the work.

Indeed, this isn't the time and the place--especially considering that yours was one of a literal small handful across a year or two and my point still very much stands, but I was under the impression that you were explained why your mod application was not accepted.  If not, please feel free to PM me.

Thanks for getting back to me, I definitely appreciate the explanation!
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 02 July 2018, 14:50:13
I'll add a few more points to address some recent comments.

1. iMav, you created this community and put in an incredible amount of work to bring it to what it was around when I joined (2013).  After that, mkawa put in an equal amount of work, and following his departure the remaining mod team put in their fair share to keep things running and maintained.  We sure haven't been perfect, but neither was either of the other "regimes".  I have a huge amount of respect for what you've done for this community and this site, but that doesn't mean you're immune from criticism in cases like this. 

2. Some people seem to think Zeal has been personally attacked and called out for being a potential buyer and also a vendor.  Speaking for myself, I had no such intentions, and I think that in general you'll find he is very well respected in the community (I've known Zeal in some capacity for quite some time, and have had nothing but pleasant interactions).  However, a vendor of any sort owning and operating a community like this is just inherently risky.  Even if there is absolutely no foul play, there will always be the possibility of it and potentially some doubt in (rightfully) skeptical users.  And what happens if another vendor makes a claim that Zeal is suppressing their business presence or otherwise acting unfairly - who deals with that fallout and mess?  The moderators.  This all just reeks of a headache and a mess to manage.

3. To anyone claiming that we have "no right" to voice our minds because we had plenty of time to pay for the site in a subscription model, were you even around when this all happened?  iMav made a post out of nowhere asking for money, then vanished.  Everyone either assumed he had it sorted out, or as dg alluded to, maybe just didn't think that was worth it.  The mods had no clue that a tipping point was being reached, so we had no way to try to figure out a better solution.  I would have gladly organized a raffle or other fundraising effort to help out, or promoted the subscription model.  It is not at all unwarranted to question such a sudden and short-sighted move.

4. The OP claims that if "the community" can get the funds together and purchase it, he'd prefer to do that.  To go back on that after mere hours of the thread being live is just poor form.

5. We're shifting from a free site with volunteer moderators to a revenue-generating site with [???] moderators.  Curious to see how that plays out...

6. Also, everything Photo said. 

/me refills his popcorn
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 14:59:55
I don't even remember iMav asking for money. Of course it's possible this was before 2014 but that seems doubtful considering how long that was. This is one of the most enthusiastic (for lack of a better word) hobbyist communities I've ever been in, so I'm sure that (especially as evidenced just in this thread alone) people could have raised the required funds to keep the site in iMav's hands.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: clasicks on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:04:06
What should we do?

I come here for the people, not the site.

Where will the people be?


Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:05:09


What should we do?

I come here for the people, not the site.

Where will the people be?

Dispersed over multiple places.

I'd say most will just leave or find another home.

It's been a good run.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:05:55
Deskthority wouldn't mind everyone I'm sure. Of course there's always reddit...  :))
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:07:46
Deskthority wouldn't mind everyone I'm sure. Of course there's always reddit...  :))
Deskthority has always been too slow for me and I never know how to take europeans.

Reddit while I like to sell/buy things there and browse occasionally I've never gotten used to the format.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: clasicks on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:08:27
so we just need a free vbulletin board?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:08:55
so we just need a free vbulletin board?
It'll never be the same.... :(

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: clasicks on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:09:56
so we just need a free vbulletin board?
It'll never be the same.... ;(

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

agreed. I just dont want "ghv2" to be only about GB's and IC's and Artisan Sales....
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:10:09
I'll add a few more points to address some recent comments.

1. iMav, you created this community and put in an incredible amount of work to bring it to what it was around when I joined (2013).  After that, mkawa put in an equal amount of work, and following his departure the remaining mod team put in their fair share to keep things running and maintained.  We sure haven't been perfect, but neither was either of the other "regimes".  I have a huge amount of respect for what you've done for this community and this site, but that doesn't mean you're immune from criticism in cases like this. 

2. Some people seem to think Zeal has been personally attacked and called out for being a potential buyer and also a vendor.  Speaking for myself, I had no such intentions, and I think that in general you'll find he is very well respected in the community (I've known Zeal in some capacity for quite some time, and have had nothing but pleasant interactions).  However, a vendor of any sort owning and operating a community like this is just inherently risky.  Even if there is absolutely no foul play, there will always be the possibility of it and potentially some doubt in (rightfully) skeptical users.  And what happens if another vendor makes a claim that Zeal is suppressing their business presence or otherwise acting unfairly - who deals with that fallout and mess?  The moderators.  This all just reeks of a headache and a mess to manage.

3. To anyone claiming that we have "no right" to voice our minds because we had plenty of time to pay for the site in a subscription model, were you even around when this all happened?  iMav made a post out of nowhere asking for money, then vanished.  Everyone either assumed he had it sorted out, or as dg alluded to, maybe just didn't think that was worth it.  The mods had no clue that a tipping point was being reached, so we had no way to try to figure out a better solution.  I would have gladly organized a raffle or other fundraising effort to help out, or promoted the subscription model.  It is not at all unwarranted to question such a sudden and short-sighted move.

4. The OP claims that if "the community" can get the funds together and purchase it, he'd prefer to do that.  To go back on that after mere hours of the thread being live is just poor form.

5. We're shifting from a free site with volunteer moderators to a revenue-generating site with [???] moderators.  Curious to see how that plays out...

6. Also, everything Photo said. 

/me refills his popcorn

What he said.

/me joins Hoffman
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: AlphaAnt on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:14:09
I really like how homebrewtalk.com has monetized their resource costs in the past. They have fairly frequent giveaways from various manufacturers, but you have to be a supporting member to enter. This really pushed their paid memberships way up, as the giveaways were every month or two.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:19:15
4. The OP claims that if "the community" can get the funds together and purchase it, he'd prefer to do that.  To go back on that after mere hours of the thread being live is just poor form.

Yeah totally agree. It's very clear at this point that Legacy and continuation of the community as it stands now is not a priority here, and from a bystanders perspective both seem to be of no concern whatsoever. Money seems to be the only clear objective now. I can't fault someone for selling something that is rightfully theirs, but generally legacy is a driving factor, especially in cases like this. 

Even as someone who has stepped away from being super active here, I'd hate to see the community here dissipate and fall apart.


Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: fendent on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:19:42
If anyone is concerned about undue interference by Zeal and to quiet people who may question things or be skeptical, a revolving steering committee composed of a cross-section of the site could be formed for such a task that could be involved in decision-making. In what way this would work in specific terms I can't say right now, but it might alay fears and concerns and make more peoples' voices feel heard, perhaps?

I've also suggested that the community could support a yearly drive to frontload costs for the following year so we don't have to do a monthly model. This would also bring in money for paid development of site features and the like.

This too is overly hopeful, but I see it as a model that has worked before.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:23:38
I really like how homebrewtalk.com has monetized their resource costs in the past. They have fairly frequent giveaways from various manufacturers, but you have to be a supporting member to enter. This really pushed their paid memberships way up, as the giveaways were every month or two.

This is definitely not an issue of being unable to find funding. For a site with this many views there are about 100 excellent ways to monetize it and pay for the hosting without much effort and with little to no drastic changes to how the site looks and feels. Even if you want to stay ad free, funding the required ~$300 is a simple one to solve. It seems that there were just no warning signs for this, so no real effort was ever put into finding a solution.

Your example, and many others I've seen here, would easily cover the hosting fees, but none of them will work if the person in charge doesn't want to put the slightest bit of effort into making them work.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:50:47
Imav has been really burned out since the Vortex Race gb back in 2011-12, he hasnít posted much since then. I was there and it was painful. I guess this is his eventual exit after so many years holding out.

This thread has been a fun read. Best of luck to all the parties involved.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: HotRoderX on Mon, 02 July 2018, 15:51:32
I still feel like the point is being missed hardcore on this. The sight has never been free yet IMav operates at a lose. The way people are coming off they seem entitled to the sight. The thing is if people where donating there money this entire time, instead of just feeling entitled to have the sight. Then this would be a non issue because the sight would continue to exist. The community already has some moments that leave me groaning. Seriously this is one of those moments that leaves me going why am I hear? What the heck is wrong with people. I get being passionate but bottom line is this.

No one knows for a fact what will happen to the sight. Unless you have a time machine at which point you need to patient and start selling it cause think of the trillions of dollars you will make. That's the only way to know whats going to happen to the website.

No ones been helping with the monthly cost. I mean serious the people including mods calling out Imav and saying there dis pointed. How much money have you donated over the past 6 months, Sure you donated your time and its appreciated but server host aren't going to accept time and happy wishes. Also we don't know what IMav situation is. Perhaps this is a last ditch effort to keep food on the table and a roof over his head. Maybe he just doesn't want the sight anymore. Perhaps he just greedy and wants money. The bottom line is doesn't matter its his to sell. As said before just be thankful he not just closing the sight down.

As far as advertisements go I welcome them as long as there non obtrusive. The fact the sights operated with out adds for so long is a miracle in of its self.  The donation/Patron thing is great until 3-4 months down the road and people are groaning and need Christmas money or money for that next IC. Then its back to business as usual were one person shoulders the brunt of the load.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: tinlong117 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 16:04:36
Funny thing if Zeal bought the site I like him even more. All this time heís ripping off the community, then he spends 10% of his profits to ďhelpĒ the community, so he can rip off more money. 10/10.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 02 July 2018, 16:07:06
I don't even remember iMav asking for money. Of course it's possible this was before 2014 but that seems doubtful considering how long that was. This is one of the most enthusiastic (for lack of a better word) hobbyist communities I've ever been in, so I'm sure that (especially as evidenced just in this thread alone) people could have raised the required funds to keep the site in iMav's hands.

He did in a couple of cases.  In my case, I donated both times but didn't really keep it up as it was forgotten.   There needed to be a concerted effort, I think, and there never was that.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 02 July 2018, 16:13:16
Yeah. Slept on it and am still angry and disillusioned how this sale went down so quickly and without any consideration for the community that has been tightly knit here for a decade.

It doesn't sit well. It's extremely suspicious. And I am very disappointed in iMav for how poorly and inconsiderately he handled this situation.

I don't give a **** about redesigns or creating a larger market place. What I do care about is the blatant disregarding of the people who built this site and made it what it is.

This entire thing stinks like some forced-upon anti Net Neutrality bull****. No one knew. No one was asked. It just went in the night when no one was paying attention to the highest bidder.

Maybe GH will wind up being better down the road, but the lack of transparency and community involvement in something so important is completely ****ed. idk maybe I wasn't paying enough attention at the time.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 02 July 2018, 16:45:08
Maybe GH will wind up being better down the road

This is pretty much where I'm going to sit. Let this play out, and wait to make judgement until after things settle down. Having someone/group that owns the site that is more involved could end up being a good thing for the community. It could be the worst, but it could absolutely improve the site and community here as well. Hopefully either way any change will be slow and generally not affect the day in day out happenings of the site.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 02 July 2018, 16:50:47
I still feel like the point is being missed hardcore on this. The sight has never been free yet IMav operates at a lose. The way people are coming off they seem entitled to the sight. The thing is if people where donating there money this entire time, instead of just feeling entitled to have the sight. Then this would be a non issue because the sight would continue to exist. The community already has some moments that leave me groaning. Seriously this is one of those moments that leaves me going why am I hear? What the heck is wrong with people. I get being passionate but bottom line is this.

No one knows for a fact what will happen to the sight. Unless you have a time machine at which point you need to patient and start selling it cause think of the trillions of dollars you will make. That's the only way to know whats going to happen to the website.

No ones been helping with the monthly cost. I mean serious the people including mods calling out Imav and saying there dis pointed. How much money have you donated over the past 6 months, Sure you donated your time and its appreciated but server host aren't going to accept time and happy wishes. Also we don't know what IMav situation is. Perhaps this is a last ditch effort to keep food on the table and a roof over his head. Maybe he just doesn't want the sight anymore. Perhaps he just greedy and wants money. The bottom line is doesn't matter its his to sell. As said before just be thankful he not just closing the sight down.

As far as advertisements go I welcome them as long as there non obtrusive. The fact the sights operated with out adds for so long is a miracle in of its self.  The donation/Patron thing is great until 3-4 months down the road and people are groaning and need Christmas money or money for that next IC. Then its back to business as usual were one person shoulders the brunt of the load.

Site*
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: swangful on Mon, 02 July 2018, 17:03:20
(https://media.giphy.com/media/BfiL8ZJWqfw7C/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: romevi on Mon, 02 July 2018, 17:03:21
Deskthority has always been too slow for me and I never know how to take europeans.

This 100x for me. geekhack, when it gets active, runs at a comfortably faster pace for me.
And just when I think I have someone's humor down, I make a joke thinking it will align but it falls flat. European humor (or lack thereof) always eludes me.

Plus, I don't have as strong a desire for 20+ year-old boards as they do...


Reddit while I like to sell/buy things there and browse occasionally I've never gotten used to the format.

Though there are way more scammers and flippers on mm, I've found more than half of what I've been looking for there. It's a better place to find stuff you're aching for, but I will say that with here I at least have a better chance of knowing the buyer/seller before the sale.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 02 July 2018, 17:07:02
Plus, I don't have as strong a desire for 20+ year-old boards as they do...

This is just a character flaw, we can work on this  :p :)) <3
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 02 July 2018, 17:13:57
I don't even remember iMav asking for money. Of course it's possible this was before 2014 but that seems doubtful considering how long that was. This is one of the most enthusiastic (for lack of a better word) hobbyist communities I've ever been in, so I'm sure that (especially as evidenced just in this thread alone) people could have raised the required funds to keep the site in iMav's hands.

He did in a couple of cases.  In my case, I donated both times but didn't really keep it up as it was forgotten.   There needed to be a concerted effort, I think, and there never was that.

I like the slower pace most of the time. And to be completely honest, the majority of the posts I see in spy tend to be IC/GB related so although it might seem faster paced, they don't seem that different to me. DT has had some really busy moments too. In any case, the stereotype of "DT is only vintage" hurts the viewership I think. There is certainly lots more than just that.

This is just a character flaw, we can work on this  :p :)) <3

 ;D
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: romevi on Mon, 02 July 2018, 17:15:29
Plus, I don't have as strong a desire for 20+ year-old boards as they do...

This is just a character flaw, we can work on this  :p :)) <3

Don't get me wrong! I love good, ol' 80s/90s IBM workhorses as much as the next guy.

But a line becomes crossed when one lugs keyboards weighing half an average human with rusted, arcane switches.  :))
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 02 July 2018, 17:19:26

if they replace the mods im leaving

I will but this out there. The first offer of $15k will take it.  (regardless of any other offers)

Done.

@zeal can you replace the mods so that puddsy will leave ... please.

you guys can stop sending me this now

lol
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: mkarlsson on Mon, 02 July 2018, 17:33:41
Why donít you guys stop making such comments about europeans?

There are many europeans here, and are not interested in old boards and like a lot how geekhack works, the people and the ďamerican humorĒ (aside from stupid comments about europeans that are not funny).

Apart from that, I really hope the site stays more or less how it is now, maybe with some improvements.

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: byker on Mon, 02 July 2018, 19:50:57
I'll add a few more points to address some recent comments.

1. iMav, you created this community and put in an incredible amount of work to bring it to what it was around when I joined (2013).  After that, mkawa put in an equal amount of work, and following his departure the remaining mod team put in their fair share to keep things running and maintained.  We sure haven't been perfect, but neither was either of the other "regimes".  I have a huge amount of respect for what you've done for this community and this site, but that doesn't mean you're immune from criticism in cases like this. 

2. Some people seem to think Zeal has been personally attacked and called out for being a potential buyer and also a vendor.  Speaking for myself, I had no such intentions, and I think that in general you'll find he is very well respected in the community (I've known Zeal in some capacity for quite some time, and have had nothing but pleasant interactions).  However, a vendor of any sort owning and operating a community like this is just inherently risky.  Even if there is absolutely no foul play, there will always be the possibility of it and potentially some doubt in (rightfully) skeptical users.  And what happens if another vendor makes a claim that Zeal is suppressing their business presence or otherwise acting unfairly - who deals with that fallout and mess?  The moderators.  This all just reeks of a headache and a mess to manage.

3. To anyone claiming that we have "no right" to voice our minds because we had plenty of time to pay for the site in a subscription model, were you even around when this all happened?  iMav made a post out of nowhere asking for money, then vanished.  Everyone either assumed he had it sorted out, or as dg alluded to, maybe just didn't think that was worth it.  The mods had no clue that a tipping point was being reached, so we had no way to try to figure out a better solution.  I would have gladly organized a raffle or other fundraising effort to help out, or promoted the subscription model.  It is not at all unwarranted to question such a sudden and short-sighted move.

4. The OP claims that if "the community" can get the funds together and purchase it, he'd prefer to do that.  To go back on that after mere hours of the thread being live is just poor form.

5. We're shifting from a free site with volunteer moderators to a revenue-generating site with [???] moderators.  Curious to see how that plays out...

6. Also, everything Photo said. 

/me refills his popcorn

+1 to all of this. I know when I was a moderator the team wanted to make many improvements to the back end, but never had the ability to. Several of us had the ability, but were never given admin access. There is barely anyone that actually has admin access.

Likewise when it comes to funding. I personally stepped down over disbelief that iMav would put up something as ****ty as >>>DEALS<<< rather than asking the people that actually use the website and mod the website, for possible revenue generating options. I realized he just does whatever he wants and I no longer wanted to moderate a site owned by such an individual. This current situation is another example of iMav ruining the community he's built.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Mon, 02 July 2018, 20:51:31
so we just need a free vbulletin board?

NOT vBulletin!  GH ran on vB for several years...what a PIG of a platform that is!  (originally started on phpBB...who remembers that??)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iMav on Mon, 02 July 2018, 21:02:42
NOT vBulletin!  GH ran on vB for several years...what a PIG of a platform that is!  (originally started on phpBB...who remembers that??)

Of course, this is still my all time, favorite GH theme (on vB):

https://web.archive.org/web/20091221100239/http://geekhack.org:80/
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 02 July 2018, 23:34:17
I don't even remember iMav asking for money. Of course it's possible this was before 2014 but that seems doubtful considering how long that was. This is one of the most enthusiastic (for lack of a better word) hobbyist communities I've ever been in, so I'm sure that (especially as evidenced just in this thread alone) people could have raised the required funds to keep the site in iMav's hands.

He did in a couple of cases.  In my case, I donated both times but didn't really keep it up as it was forgotten.   There needed to be a concerted effort, I think, and there never was that.

I like the slower pace most of the time. And to be completely honest, the majority of the posts I see in spy tend to be IC/GB related so although it might seem faster paced, they don't seem that different to me. DT has had some really busy moments too. In any case, the stereotype of "DT is only vintage" hurts the viewership I think. There is certainly lots more than just that.

This is just a character flaw, we can work on this  :p :)) <3

 ;D

Did you quote the wrong post...?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: ideus on Mon, 02 July 2018, 23:35:17
You can sell the website; but not the community. People have the freedom to move to other similar boards. GH key feature is that it is vendor neutral; if that changes, this portal may turn into the owners' store. Fortunately, there are still some other places where keyboard aficionados may continue sharing their interests, projects, ideas and stuff with no bigbrother supervision and control.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: figit090 on Tue, 03 July 2018, 00:33:35
wow, I'm sorry to see the difficulties but I'm glad that it's getting sorted out. I'm shocked that by the time I got this notification, sale of the website is already in the works.

I like this website, is seldom as I use it I really enjoy it and I've used it for a lots of information. I hope it continues on!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: heroinbob on Tue, 03 July 2018, 01:00:58
I have been offered $10k to sell the geekhack community.

As many of you know, I maintain a SIGNIFICANT loss in maintaining the site.  Folks will donate for a month or two and then stop.  I LOVE the community and it is a great source of pride to see how the community grew out of my seedling of an idea. 

I would RATHER sell to a community member (or a group of members).  So, I am putting this "out there".  If a group of community members can beat the offered price, I will gladly turn over the website to them.  (I will help migrate the site to a new server (hosted/owned/whatever)...and do whatever needs to be done for a successful transition.)  Otherwise, in a month or so, the site will be in the hands of a new company. 

(sorry.  I currently have three mortgages...dude to an unexpected move.  And I simply can't incur the expense any longer.)

You have a **SERIOUS** PM.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: romevi on Tue, 03 July 2018, 01:03:39
I have been offered $10k to sell the geekhack community.

As many of you know, I maintain a SIGNIFICANT loss in maintaining the site.  Folks will donate for a month or two and then stop.  I LOVE the community and it is a great source of pride to see how the community grew out of my seedling of an idea. 

I would RATHER sell to a community member (or a group of members).  So, I am putting this "out there".  If a group of community members can beat the offered price, I will gladly turn over the website to them.  (I will help migrate the site to a new server (hosted/owned/whatever)...and do whatever needs to be done for a successful transition.)  Otherwise, in a month or so, the site will be in the hands of a new company. 

(sorry.  I currently have three mortgages...dude to an unexpected move.  And I simply can't incur the expense any longer.)

You have a **SERIOUS** PM.

 :eek:
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 03 July 2018, 01:07:40
there's no real good answer, I thought about what if we as a community pooled out money together to keep GH non-profit, and I know we could initially but would it maintain?
but $15k seems low for what we collectively spend on this hobby
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: nmur on Tue, 03 July 2018, 01:10:22
I have been offered $10k to sell the geekhack community.

As many of you know, I maintain a SIGNIFICANT loss in maintaining the site.  Folks will donate for a month or two and then stop.  I LOVE the community and it is a great source of pride to see how the community grew out of my seedling of an idea. 

I would RATHER sell to a community member (or a group of members).  So, I am putting this "out there".  If a group of community members can beat the offered price, I will gladly turn over the website to them.  (I will help migrate the site to a new server (hosted/owned/whatever)...and do whatever needs to be done for a successful transition.)  Otherwise, in a month or so, the site will be in the hands of a new company. 

(sorry.  I currently have three mortgages...dude to an unexpected move.  And I simply can't incur the expense any longer.)

You have a **SERIOUS** PM.

wtt 20000 vintage blacks
wttf geekhack
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Zeal on Tue, 03 July 2018, 02:10:20
Goodbye.

Let's see if tomorrow has a brighter future.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Oblotzky on Tue, 03 July 2018, 03:37:32
Goodbye.

Let's see if tomorrow has a brighter future.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/234/571/b7d.png)
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Halverson on Tue, 03 July 2018, 03:48:36
Big money, big money, no whammies, STOP
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: suicidal_orange on Tue, 03 July 2018, 04:05:58
After spending much of the weekend+ at the hospital hoping they can work out what's wrong with two of my closest family members I come back to this.  Started well, went weird and 'ended' on a cryptic cliffhanger :confused:

Sounds like I'd may as well cancel my $5/mo though, could pay for an hour's parking...
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: joey on Tue, 03 July 2018, 04:08:23
I wish there was an easy way to download entire threads + all my PMs + pictures etc...
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: fanpeople on Tue, 03 July 2018, 04:13:25
After spending much of the weekend+ at the hospital hoping they can work out what's wrong with two of my closest family members I come back to this.  Started well, went weird and 'ended' on a cryptic cliffhanger :confused:

Sounds like I'd may as well cancel my $5/mo though, could pay for an hour's parking...

You have to pay for parking?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Remsky on Tue, 03 July 2018, 04:17:14
Well bois, it was a nice run. See you on the new site whenever it launches.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: suicidal_orange on Tue, 03 July 2018, 04:27:18
After spending much of the weekend+ at the hospital hoping they can work out what's wrong with two of my closest family members I come back to this.  Started well, went weird and 'ended' on a cryptic cliffhanger :confused:

Sounds like I'd may as well cancel my $5/mo though, could pay for an hour's parking...

You have to pay for parking?

Of course!  Medical care is free but parking at the hospital is the most expensive in town.  Wouldn't be so bad if the money went to the hospital but the car park is privately owned...  Needless to say I walk despite the crazy temperatures.

Anyway lets try and keep this thread on topic.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 03 July 2018, 04:44:26
Sounds good, sell to china so they have to implement all their government rules as well as the great firewall stuff. Nothing to go wrong here, other than the fact that it would kill the forum and set the western mech community back 10 years. But hey, at least you got your money :thumb:

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: jebbra on Tue, 03 July 2018, 04:52:24
Goodbye.

Let's see if tomorrow has a brighter future.

ceekhack?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Remsky on Tue, 03 July 2018, 04:57:32
Sounds good, sell to china so they have to implement all their government rules as well as the great firewall stuff. Nothing to go wrong here, other than the fact that it would kill the forum and set the western mech community back 10 years. But hey, at least you got your money :thumb:
Yup, pretty much every board/keyset/whatever that is ran outside of KR and CN is ran through here. Handing us to china is a huge mistake and will most likely kill the site. A chinese vendor won't know how to handle this community effectively, CN and KR communities have for the most part remained largely secluded from geekhack. Like how would the mod team be affected, for instance? How will GB's and IC's be affected? At least store all relevant information in some archive for a future site to use.....
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Belfong on Tue, 03 July 2018, 05:20:11
Goodbye.

Let's see if tomorrow has a brighter future.
All hail our new .... Guardian .... !
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kekstee on Tue, 03 July 2018, 05:49:36
I can fully understand iMav here btw, hope there will be a decent way forward for everybody.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 03 July 2018, 05:52:47
I can fully understand iMav here btw, hope there will be a decent way forward for everybody.

Zeal is out because China ended up bidding way higher iirc.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Tue, 03 July 2018, 06:09:25
Goodbye.

Let's see if tomorrow has a brighter future.

Holy **** what has this transaction turned into? I thought this was a done deal. First to 15k.

Now the site has been sold to a higher bidding party and Zeal is out?

Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Tue, 03 July 2018, 06:17:09
Goodbye.

Let's see if tomorrow has a brighter future.

Holy **** what has this transaction turned into? I thought this was a done deal. First to 15k.

Now the site has been sold to a higher bidding party and Zeal is out?

That is what the situation seems to be. RIP GH
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: vewy_nice on Tue, 03 July 2018, 06:28:06
...What a twist?

That's real ****ty. What's someone's word worth these days, anyway?
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: MxBlue on Tue, 03 July 2018, 06:30:48
...What a twist?

That's real ****ty. What's someone's word worth these days, anyway?

Less than 100k, it appears.
Title: Re: Potential community sale...
Post by: user 18 on Tue, 03 July 2018, 22:54:26
Discussion is ongoing here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96431.0