geekhack

Site Announcements and Feedback => Announcements/Feedback/Suggestions => Topic started by: Will@MD on Wed, 04 July 2018, 10:31:40

Title: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Will@MD on Wed, 04 July 2018, 10:31:40
Hello Friends,

My name is Will Bright, I’m a Co-Founder of Massdrop, GH lurker since ‘08 and member since ‘12. Yesterday we purchased Geekhack.

I learned about the sale thread on Monday morning, and my first reaction was.... Wut? Like many thread participants, I was surprised to see this and concerned with the potential outcomes. I’ve spent my entire life in enthusiast communities, and I’ve seen many great communities disperse because of dramatic changes in ownership or management. On Monday, I feared Geekhack would meet a similar fate. From there, I called a meeting of our founding team to discuss purchasing Geekhack with the primary goal of preserving it.

There’s a lot of great stuff about GH, some would argue there’s garbage stuff about GH, but I think it’s hard to debate the dedication and sense of community created by the mods and long-term members of this community. In purchasing Geekhack, our goal is to support that dedication and empower the moderator team to continue improving the community you’ve all invested so much to build.

We’re not making any immediate changes. All rules, standards, processes, and regulations are the same this week as they were last week, and will be the same next week, and the week after, etc. We’re not making GH an advertising platform. We’re not interested in playing favorites with vendors or group buys. We are making no changes to the moderator or admin team.

This change in ownership should affect a 0% change in your GH experience.

That said, GH won’t remain the same forever, it shouldn’t. Communities are organic, they grow, they evolve. The key from our point of view is to support that growth, rather than direct that growth. We’re working with the mod team and dedicated community members to learn more about where the community is headed and what we can do as owners to facilitate that growth. Rest assured, any notable changes will be the result of community supported initiatives, not the will of some distant actor. 

By this point, hopefully you’re feeling cautiously optimistic, but you’re probably looking for the catch. How does Massdrop as a business benefit from buying GH if we’re not changing anything to monetize the site? Having a place for people to dive deeper into Mechanical Keyboards helps Massdrop create better products and leads to people being bigger Massdrop customers.

Geekhack is where Mechanical Keyboard enthusiasts can develop their knowledge and create projects together. The community needs a place for that, and we’re excited to help GH continue as that platform.

Best,

Will

P.S. My GH signature was one of the first Massdrop brand assets we made in 2012 and we’re still helping folks manage large group buys today : ) 
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 04 July 2018, 10:49:08
As a follow-up to Will’s post, the moderation team has drafted a response based on our feelings about the discussion we had with Will yesterday, and on the transfer of site ownership in general.

We were as blindsided as the rest of the community by the sudden announcement of the site sale and the uncertainty of its future. Yesterday evening we learned that the ownership was transferred to Massdrop, and we were contacted by Will, who reassured us that the site and how things have been run are not going to dramatically change overnight. Massdrop's intent appears to be to keep the site operating mostly as it has been, including the current arrangement for the marketplace. We will be working out possibilities of site feature upgrades and adding more dedicated forum maintenance and tech support. But for the foreseeable future, you can expect geekhack to remain in its familiar form -- and hopefully with some positive improvements on the way.

Please post your questions and feedback below, either for us or for Massdrop, and they will be answered as completely as we are able. We expect a lot of feedback, so to prevent our answers from being lost in the thread, we won’t be answering anything immediately. Instead, we’ll go through the questions as you post them, and compile a master list of everything the community would like to know. Responses to all questions will be posted later this week. We’ve included below some of the questions we’ve already asked, and the answers Will has provided to us.

In the meantime, remember that we’re all here for love of the hobby, and the community we’ve built around it. A lot of people have put a lot of work into this site, and we want to make sure that we can remain a valuable resource for a long time to come. As moderators, we want to make the best of changing circumstances, take advantage of some of the new opportunities and resources it brings, and see the keyboard enthusiast community continue to thrive.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: user 18 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 10:55:41
Q&A Part I:

Q: There's a concern about a vendor owning a platform and remaining impartial.  How is that going to change our level of autonomy and those of vendors on GH?

A: Autonomy is something we don't want to change. ... Far as the perception around a vendor owning the platform, it's important to understand Massdrop is at a pretty different scale than the vendors who depend on GH. We want to support these small vendors and maintain GH as a place where community makers can develop their businesses and products.


Q: One of the main serious questions people have is about private data collection.  If you have any statement about Massdrop's privacy policy in regards to geekhack, we'd love to get it.

A: We don't sell data to anybody under any circumstances. We don't care about real-world identities or tracking across platforms. We do care about the analysis of posts; we do a fair amount with that to determine what goes into our products. Why a headphone sounds the way it does, why we use a particular material on a keyboard instead of another, all of that is informed through analysis of the discussions on Massdrop and external platforms

Q: That's stuff you can do using the publicly-visible posts on GH whether or not you own the site though?

A: Exactly

Q: So will that model stay the same, or will how you gather feedback from GH change now that you own the site and potentially have access to more user data than is publicly-visible?

A: I can't think of anything we want that's not publicly visible, and I'm the main person driving on the analysis side.


Q: How does Massdrop plan to approach any direct competitors on the site: whether it will allow anyone to post here as before, or whether it will have control over which competing vendors are allowed?

A: Nothing changes and they can continue to operate as they have on GH. We don't want to stifle people trying to add to the mech keys ecosystem. That's how all the best products come to be.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: infiniti on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:04:51
1st

:triangle:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: ChrisSwires on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:05:25
I don't really have anything to say at this point but glad to see an end to the rumour mill and will be watching with interest. We shall see how this goes!
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:05:59
cautious optimism

gonna send in a mod application a little later on today
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Krelbit on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:06:56
It's not the darkest timeline

🎉
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: kawasaki161 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:07:20
Thanks iMav for not selling to China  :thumb: (Though you could've just mentioned it so half the salt would've been avoided)

Really glad GH won't die yet
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: rioc on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:07:28
curious for the future, I'm optimistic :)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: TheNamesTy45 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:08:02
Agree with cautious optimism. MD has been good to me so far.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:09:27
This seems to be one of the better outcomes that could have come to pass.

Really glad to see the Mod team has been engaged with and is onboard  :thumb:

The site staying mostly the same also sounds great, sounds like you Mods/Admins will get some help bettering the site as well, which is great.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but my experiences with Massdrop and Will have always been positive, pretty excited to see what comes out of this  :thumb:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: ejewell89 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:09:49
Puddsy pls no
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: csmertx on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:12:09
Well, ok. This seems promissing.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: ygor on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:14:41
lol k
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:15:39
Mass...hack?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:19:33
While I have had varying experiences from great to terrible with MD. I gotta say I am very glad they stepped in & bought GH before it ended up in the hands of some other company that is solely interested in using it as a data mill for revenue. I will echo most other's thoughts on this development & say I am cautiously optimistic about this. :thumb:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:20:51
cool, wondering what will happen with the GB section, will it be integrated with MD? I dont think that would be a good idea.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:21:14
cool, wondering what will happen with the GB section, will it be integrated with MD? I dont think that would be a good idea.

god i hope not
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: ddot on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:21:35
I also echo the sentiment of cautious optimism.  Massdrop and I first crossed paths in the fall of 2013 during an ErgoDox group buy.  There were some pretty serious errors with my order and it took several months to resolve, but I felt they bent over backwards to make things right for me.  They catch a lot of flack from some people, but my experience with them has been overwhelming positive.  I personally welcome our new overlords!
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: JianYang on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:22:13
Mass...hack?
More likely
Geek...drop
 ;D
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: gutsack on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:22:17
Well, that went better than I expected.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: quaddepos on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:22:51
cool, wondering what will happen with the GB section, will it be integrated with MD? I dont think that would be a good idea.

I'm sure that won't be the case.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:23:26
cool, wondering what will happen with the GB section, will it be integrated with MD? I dont think that would be a good idea.

I'm sure that won't be the case.
I certainly hope so.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:23:29
cool, wondering what will happen with the GB section, will it be integrated with MD? I dont think that would be a good idea.

That's basically addressed in the last answer of the initial Q&A posted in the 3rd reply to this thread.  They have no plans at the moment to change the way we run the marketplace here.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:24:03
Mass...hack?
HackDrop  :))
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: russthebus27 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:24:15
Don't hate that MD is the new player.  iMav still a ***** for his actions.  Go pay your mortgages and remain in your hole.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: joey on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:26:31
I wonder if iMav will make another post, I hope so.

I don't think MD is the worst company to own GH, so that's something!
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:29:20
Don't hate that MD is the new player.  iMav still a ***** for his actions.  Go pay your mortgages and remain in your hole.

I think it's probably best not to slam the guy. You can't discount what he did do for this community. Was everything handled perfect, or even well over the years? Definitely not. And I'm not saying I liked the guy at all either. But money can make people do crazy things. He got more money, and he paid for it with his legacy by not being a man of his word his last days here. Best to just be forward looking and get excited about things that may happen now that he is out of the picture.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: xondat on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:29:33
Very mixed feelings with a hint of feeling positive.

It could've been way worse.

I now understand why someone would want to buy GH, and the vision sounds good.


Q: Was Massdrop the original bidder?

Never mind. Went back and looked. I'm glad MD saved us then.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: HotRoderX on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:29:50
Personally I see this as a good thing. The fact massdrop has untold resources at its disposal is a big plus. Perhaps we will start to see some major upgrades to the sight.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: joey on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:31:11
Also any chance you will disclose the final figure? (At least to the nearest $10k?)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:31:41
ignore this post
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: ZedTheMan on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:32:14
I wonder if we will see geekhack ads on Massdrop now?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Oblotzky on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:32:16
I can see why Massdrop wouldn't be the first choice of some people, but it's certainly miles better than a data mining company harvesting our PM's now.

The best of luck to Will and the GH mod team!
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:32:17
Very mixed feelings with a hint of feeling positive.

It could've been way worse.

I now understand why someone would want to buy GH, and the vision sounds good.


Q: Was Massdrop the original bidder?

Following the timeline of events, I'd say no. I believe CN was in bidding before MD got involved from what I can tell.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:33:09
I’ve said it countless times but MD is the only reason our community is gaining popularity, over the past several years especially.

They’re GMK drops always hit the highest numbers.

And more specifically- the Mercury Rocketeer project even getting great support on GH is a good sign for the future of more custom boards with Massdrop.

This makes me happy :)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:35:09
Can we finally get a :facepalm: emoji?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: JoeriW on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:37:52
Works for me, probably the best outcome given the circumstances. Hope you stay true to your word and won't meddle with the GB's on GH but I guess it will be fine.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dfj on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:41:39
Grats all!
  Yes, much better than our worst fears and nightmares. =}

/me retreats back to hide on irc for another year.

dfj
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:42:15
our community is gaining popularity

Too much of a hipster to be happy about that tbh
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: PotatoTM on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:50:42
Well I definitely did not expect Massdrop to be the anonymous buyer...

While I do not necessarily agree with everything Massdrop has done in the past and how they chose to do business nowadays, I must say that this is probably one of the least negative outcomes this whole thing could produce.

I will keep an open mind and hope to see Massdrop stick to their word on preserving GH instead of transforming it into a marketing platform.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: kekstee on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:53:09
A better outcome than what was to be expected from the hasty sale, I guess.
And nice to see this alive as a way to coordinate projects.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: jwaz on Wed, 04 July 2018, 11:53:54
I remember when Hash, myself and a few others (I think maybe mkawa??) met Will for the first time when they were spinning up Massdrop years ago. Could not have ever pictured the way things turned out but I echo others sentiments of cautious optimism.

Grats all!
  Yes, much better than our worst fears and nightmares. =}

/me retreats back to hide on irc for another year.

dfj

#geekhack 4eva
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:02:34
I remember when Hash, myself and a few others (I think maybe mkawa??) met Will for the first time when they were spinning up Massdrop years ago. Could not have ever pictured the way things turned out but I echo others sentiments of cautious optimism.

Grats all!
  Yes, much better than our worst fears and nightmares. =}

/me retreats back to hide on irc for another year.

dfj

#geekhack 4eva

speaking of disappearing for a year, hello
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: romevi on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:09:55
Concerned that Will spelled geekhack with a capital G. :(
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:10:43
This seems to be one of the better outcomes that could have come to pass.

Really glad to see the Mod team has been engaged with and is onboard  :thumb:

The site staying mostly the same also sounds great, sounds like you Mods/Admins will get some help bettering the site as well, which is great.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but my experiences with Massdrop and Will have always been positive, pretty excited to see what comes out of this  :thumb:

All that needs to be said here. Agree entirely. Regardless of people's positive interactions or experiences (as well as the lack thereof) with Massdrop, it's undeniable that they have reach, financial stability, know-how and a myriad of other qualities that can infinitely benefit Geekhack and us as a community.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:12:10
god bless, >>>DEALS<<< is gone.

Truly the best first step forward to take.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: bisoromi on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:14:24
treat us well MD
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: yinzer on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:16:02
I think most people here are glad that this site wasn't taken over by an outside company. But, the sense I'm getting from discussion isn't quite "cautious optimism." That might be what is literally being typed here, but I think the attitude I'm seeing (here and across various discords and slacks) would be better described as "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't."

While unarguably a large player, it's hard to think of Massdrop as a member of this corner of the kb community. Massdrop has profited over the blatant thefts of intellectual property. Designs that come from the members of this forum end up on MD as cheap knockoffs. Getting into the nitty-gritty of what constitutes intellectual property theft isn't really even the point. There are honor systems in place that MD has continued to ignore.

If you really want this community to believe that you're part of us and not here to farm us, this practice should end and some apologies should be issued.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: breusch91 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:18:20
I'm pretty happy this went to Massdrop. It could have been much much worse. Massdrop gets a lot of **** around the community, and I've definitely said my fair share. But all the errors in orders I've had with them have always been rectified eventually. While that may not always be optimal, it's better then joining a GB and never seeing your item and losing your money because the one person running it decided to leave the hobby or hit hard times.

Also I think at times people forget that the problem/delay with a GB isnt always Massdrops fault. On top of that they run other GBs for other communities. I've personally been in a few of those and they have always been delivered on time or even early in some cases. I know there have been other issues not pertaining to GBs exactly, but im still hopeful that this will be good for geekhack as opposed to the alternative.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: PunksDead on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:19:24
Will your avatar makes me uneasy and you look like the typical CEO that increases my holiday bonus but slashes my health insurance.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: schoolbus on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:20:40
Certainly could've been way worse and in my experience Massdrop has been fine. Are they perfect? No- but unlike the opinion of a loud minority among the KB communities I don't think they've ever had nefarious intentions towards the many among this hobby... quite the opposite.

They're as relevant as any potential buyer and as many have said have a wide array of resources and connections at their disposal that should only benefit all of us. We'll see how things are in time but cautiously optimistic.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:20:40
I think most people here are glad that this site wasn't taken over by an outside company. But, the sense I'm getting from discussion isn't quite "cautious optimism." That might be what is literally being typed here, but I think the attitude I'm seeing (here and across various discords and slacks) would be better described as "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't."

While unarguably a large player, it's hard to think of Massdrop as a member of this corner of the kb community. Massdrop has profited over the blatant thefts of intellectual property. Designs that come from the members of this forum end up on MD as cheap knockoffs. Getting into the nitty-gritty of what constitutes intellectual property theft isn't really even the point. There are honor systems in place that MD has continued to ignore.

If you really want this community to believe that you're part of us and not here to farm us, this practice should end and some apologies should be issued.

are you talking about the CTRL/ALT being similar to the white fox ? I wouldn’t say that’s a “cheap knockoff”.

If not, give examples to back your claims.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: schoolbus on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:22:08

are you talking about the CTRL/ALT being similar to the white fox ? I wouldn’t say that’s a “cheap knockoff”.

If not, give examples to back your claims.

He's probably referencing the whole input club halo switch debacle.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:23:25

are you talking about the CTRL/ALT being similar to the white fox ? I wouldn’t say that’s a “cheap knockoff”.

If not, give examples to back your claims.

He's probably referencing the whole input club halo switch debacle.

I thought so, but I wouldn’t think that’s still a “cheap knockoffs”. Halo trues are arguably better but still, it seems like they’re fixing it with the recent halo switch drop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:28:25
how can i get in on this dedicated community member feedback

(on a less serious note, unban kirkle)

i've shat on md, i've bought from md, no one's perfect, do ur best and that's all i care about. thanks for keeping it alive
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: GeneriksGiraffe on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:28:46
I'm glad geekhack won't be run by some adrev. But if Massdrop so much as TOUCHES the geekhack Marketplace and makes it Massdroppy you know I am done with this forum.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: donutcat on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:29:53
I will admit that in the past I have been vocal about my dislike for some of the activities that MD has participated in. Putting those questionable decisions in vocalization behind me, I will at least say that I am glad that it was MD over some data mining company, especially if they do follow their statements in the op. I will still say I'm nervous about the potential ramifications of a large vendor owning a forum that lots of small vendors depend on to make their work available, but again as long as the initial statements hold true I don't see any issues at this time and I do foresee the site benefiting from someone who can afford to keep the site running at peak performance.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: ArchDill on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:34:58
A: This literally is the outcome that I and others saw coming. I knew MD had to be in the running. I do not necessarily view this as a bad thing. It is in their best interest to make sure GH stays in place and in use.

B: I am very curious to see how this affects GB’s etc. from a business standpoint, MD could make a little off of every GB.

C: The most important thing, please don’t make Puddsy a mod.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: TelFiRE on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:38:04
This is far and away the worst way things could have gone. I am bitterly disappointed right now. Massdrop has shown beyond any doubt that they do not care about their communities and are in it for the money. What a rotten day.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:43:25
This is far and away the worst way things could have gone. I am bitterly disappointed right now. Massdrop has shown beyond any doubt that they do not care about their communities and are in it for the money. What a rotten day.

Troll?

Helping spread our best run keysets? Showing the mk community to more people and making them the sole reason we’ve been gaining members. Laser/Canvas alt/ctrl seem fine. Mercury Rocketeer project seems to be going great.

“This is far and away the worst way things could have gone”

Even worse than a chinese company sucking out the data and life out of gh and leaving nothing?

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:43:53
I'm personally undecided at the moment. When someone mentioned the idea that it might be Massdrop who bought geekhack, I was pretty negative. Having read everything so far, I'm now on the fence.

Q: Will vendors or individuals who advertise platforms that seek to compete directly with Massdrop in the mechanical keyboard space see any pushback, or will any initiative be allowed here?

Q: Will Massdrop remain a vendor with their own vendor subforum alongside all the others, or will you use ownership of the forum to more prominently position Massdrop-related projects?

Q: Will everyone still be free to openly express dislike for Massdrop, its products, or its practices without fear of censorship or retaliation?

Q: Will Massdrop agree to yield to the existing administration and moderation team with regards to changes to the forum's structure or rules, or will you reserve the right to change anything at any time if unilaterally deemed necessary?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Sup on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:44:37
This sounds good i guess there is no need for Geekhack.EU anymore  ;)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:46:42
Concerned that Will spelled geekhack with a capital G. :(

Asking the hard hitting questions

I too am concerned by this
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: AMongoose on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:47:08
Troll?

Helping spread our best run keysets?

More like you can barely run any keyset buy without them.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: schoolbus on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:47:44
This is far and away the worst way things could have gone. I am bitterly disappointed right now. Massdrop has shown beyond any doubt that they do not care about their communities and are in it for the money. What a rotten day.

Troll?

Helping spread our best run keysets? Showing the mk community to more people and making them the sole reason we’ve been gaining members. Laser/Canvas alt/ctrl seem fine. Mercury Rocketeer project seems to be going great.

“This is far and away the worst way things could have gone”

Even worse than a chinese company sucking out the data and life out of gh and leaving nothing?

Ignore Telfire, no point in bringing up the drama he started on Massdrop but needless to say it's embarrassing for all the parties involved, he's clearly still upset about it.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:49:54
This is far and away the worst way things could have gone. I am bitterly disappointed right now. Massdrop has shown beyond any doubt that they do not care about their communities and are in it for the money. What a rotten day.

Troll?

Helping spread our best run keysets? Showing the mk community to more people and making them the sole reason we’ve been gaining members. Laser/Canvas alt/ctrl seem fine. Mercury Rocketeer project seems to be going great.

“This is far and away the worst way things could have gone”

Even worse than a chinese company sucking out the data and life out of gh and leaving nothing?

Ignore Telfire, no point in bringing up the drama he started on Massdrop but needless to say it's embarrassing for all the parties involved, he's clearly still upset about it.

Oh, sorry, I didn’t know here was drama w him. Got it :x


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:54:14
remember that time i got mad at md lol
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:56:06
I'm personally undecided at the moment. When someone mentioned the idea that it might be Massdrop who bought geekhack, I was pretty negative. Having read everything so far, I'm now on the fence.

Q: Will vendors or individuals who advertise platforms that seek to compete directly with Massdrop in the mechanical keyboard space see any pushback, or will any initiative be allowed here?

Q: Will Massdrop remain a vendor with their own vendor subforum alongside all the others, or will you use ownership of the forum to more prominently position Massdrop-related projects?

Q: Will everyone still be free to openly express dislike for Massdrop, its products, or its practices without fear of censorship or retaliation?

Q: Will Massdrop agree to yield to the existing administration and moderation team with regards to changes to the forum's structure or rules, or will you reserve the right to change anything at any time if unilaterally deemed necessary?

I'm not affiliated with the project in any way but in my opinion I believe it stands to reason that the answer to all of those questions is yes - I trust Massdrop know better than to pigeonhole the community and piss people off, making people angry and resentful is one of the worst things you can do when it comes to niche hobby/communities such as this one. This isn't to say Massdrop has always appeased the broader audience or the community, I know that's not the case, but trying to obfuscate other vendors, increasing their prominence and other "power" moves are much more likely to yield bad results than they are good.

Even if they were to consider it, which I don't personally think they would out of principle, it's not at all worth the risk for them to try and decrease or be dissimulate about potential "competition" as opposed to the backlash if that were to happen.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Snappo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 12:58:57
cautious optimism

gonna send in a mod application a little later on today


Pls no
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: lemur on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:00:11
This is a better result than Zeal having it.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Glod on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:01:08
Wow holy ****. I'm semi ok with this.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: AMongoose on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:07:52
Can I organise a group buy for some new hall effect hako switches?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mdlt97 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:10:23
cautious optimism

gonna send in a mod application a little later on today

puddsy being a mod is worse than some Chinese data farming company buying gh
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: a_ak57 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:10:37
This is a really interesting turn of events.  On the one hand, at least it's not some data mining company and theoretically it might be easier to actually get ICs turned into GBs on massdrop, or at least mentioned on there.  But on the other hand, the cynic in me says there's absolutely no way they will be hands off and be cool with people saying "yeah nah **** MD i'm gonna run my buy on another site" and that down the road we won't see something like ads everywhere for that killer $2 off MSRP deal for some ****ty keyboard/caps nobody wants.

This basically reminds me of the gamespot/gamefaqs mergers.  Or on firmly pessimistic note, audiophile forums becoming sponsored and embroiled in drama with anyone who criticizes the sponsors.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:12:56
snip

I'm not affiliated with the project in any way but in my opinion I believe it stands to reason that the answer to all of those questions is yes - I trust Massdrop know better than to pigeonhole the community and piss people off, making people angry and resentful is one of the worst things you can do when it comes to niche hobby/communities such as this one. This isn't to say Massdrop has always appeased the broader audience or the community, I know that's not the case, but trying to obfuscate other vendors, increasing their prominence and other "power" moves are much more likely to yield bad results than they are good.

Even if they were to consider it, which I don't personally think they would out of principle, it's not at all worth the risk for them to try and decrease or be dissimulate about potential "competition" as opposed to the backlash if that were to happen.

I agree with you that the answers will probably be what we want to hear, but I think it's valuable to hear those answers from MD so that there's a written standard to which they can be held, instead of just an assumption of good faith.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: holtenc on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:14:53
I think MD directly benefits by keeping GH around and letting it more or less stay as-is. While they certainly could attempt to monetize the site by changing what it is today, I think the user base would rapidly tank thereby voiding their investment. In the long run they benefit more by leaving it as is... a neutral place for makers and designers to grow their projects. The best they can hope for is just a few more than usual of those projects make their way to production on MD. It wouldn't take very many additional drops for this to pay for itself (assuming they didn't pay a stupid amount of money for it).

Just my $0.02
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: sublyme on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:15:50
This is a really interesting turn of events.  On the one hand, at least it's not some data mining company and theoretically it might be easier to actually get ICs turned into GBs on massdrop, or at least mentioned on there.  But on the other hand, the cynic in me says there's absolutely no way they will be hands off and be cool with people saying "yeah nah **** MD i'm gonna run my buy on another site" and that down the road we won't see something like ads everywhere for that killer $2 off MSRP deal for some ****ty keyboard/caps nobody wants.

This basically reminds me of the gamespot/gamefaqs mergers.  Or on firmly pessimistic note, audiophile forums becoming sponsored and embroiled in drama with anyone who criticizes the sponsors.

I really hope we don't start getting spammed with a bunch of ads for cheap garbage nobody wants.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mbsurfer on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:18:13
Cautiously optimistic is a good place to be in for something like this. I am seeing a lot of "nothing will change in the near future" verbiage, so we can take that with a grain of salt. As Will said, communities should change and grow over time, so there is nothing wrong with some new features. I just really hope the GB section will stay available and equal for all vendors. I don't want to see MD GBs marked as sponsored, always on top, or just be given a bump in their own interest.

All in all, Massdrop is a much better company to have bought out geekhack compared to most others. We have to thank MD for part of the growth of this community.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:48:51
I just got back from KeyCon where I enjoyed some of the most excellent fellowship and hard-core geekery I've ever had the pleasure to enjoy in my life, and I was actually just musing to myself how fortunate I felt to have been a part of such a great community of people for so many years. Keyboards have become a huge part of my life since that day back in 2013 when I first discovered GeekHack and stayed up for 48 hours straight learning everything I could about Cherry switches. To me, GeekHack isn't the keys to the server that the forum runs on; it's the sum total interactions of the amazing, kind, generous people who have made this place what it has been for so long, many of whom have become some of my dearest friends. So, I have to confess: set against that otherwise happy mood and context, this news arrived to me with a considerable amount of heartbreak.

I frankly didn't even realize GeekHack had an "owner" until yesterday. I had always assumed that it was simply run by a collective of sort of moderator-trustees with the primary aim of serving the community. It never occurred to me that in all my years of interactions on the site, sharing and mutual learning, creating and documenting projects, and more recently organizing group buys for people who want the same stuff I do, that I was actually just cultivating a cash asset for someone I'd never heard of—something that could be bundled up, packaged, and sold to the highest bidder. So, when it comes to my feelings on the matter, the particular identity of that high-bidder isn't really material. It's the fact that there was ever bidding in the first place.

For whatever it's worth, though, while MassDrop may not be the worst buyer imaginable, comparing it against an anonymous hostile Chinese takeover is kind of maybe a low bar. And I think this awesome community is worthy of a very high bar indeed. My experiences as a customer and sometime business partner of MassDrop have been decidedly mixed. Without digressing too much into those experiences, one thing I think that is pretty safe to assert: when it comes to creating a friendly, positive, community-spirited social atmosphere online, MassDrop discussion treads are probably not the greatest portfolio piece for that company as a custodian of online community spirit.

Also, in my experience, it's not possible within most corporate cultures to justify getting into a bidding war and paying top dollar for an asset unless you have very specific plans to monetize it and get some kind of return on that investment. I don't know what MassDrop's plans are for that monetization, but even if they claimed they didn't have any (which they haven't quite gone so far as to do at this point), I'm not sure that would be terribly credible. I'm not looking forward to seeing what the roll-out of those plans looks like, which would surely be timed to emerge well after this controversy dies down. The language of the announcement appears carefully worded to leave just the right openings for this kind of strategic long game. I'm not ascribing malice here; I'm just trying to be realistic.

Obviously, I don't object to commercial activity in this community. I've sort of fallen into that myself, and it's a lot of fun. The whole premise is being obsessed with particular physical objects, and a necessary part of the premise of making stuff is money or goods changing hands. I've also been delighted to be able to buy things from other members of the community for years, whether professional vendors or not. Commerce is one thing; community ownership is something else entirely.

As far as I'm concerned, we the people of GeekHack who have built is content, its traffic, and its culture over these many years are its true owners. (Having watched it all unfold, I can say with some confidence that GeekHack made MassDrop viable, not the other way around.) Despite the bad forum software, eye-ball searing color scheme, and logistical annoyances, I've persisted here in doing projects at GeekHack because of my nostalgic attachment to the site and my deep affection for my fellow members of its community. My participation here has always been about furthering that community, and that's what I thought I was doing all along.

I'm just not sure how enthusiastic I am to continue participating here merely to build further cash-value for the VCs backing MassDrop, rather than being able to think about it as building value for a shared community that can control it own destiny. Without the community-oriented mission and spirit, this is just a really ugly website.

Perhaps American Independence Day is an appropriate day for this revelation. For those of us who have the kind of sentimental attachment to this community that I have described—or at least what we thought this community was—maybe it's time for us to think about rallying elsewhere. Wouldn't it be kind of be an amusing Oedipal irony if it turned out that MassDrop grossly overpaid for GeekHack as asset, the acquisition of which precipitated its own collapse?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: KeyboardUser4 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:52:29
Hi I would like to delete my account.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: THRILLHOIAF on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:56:08
Will, dont look up the Contra gb

Congrats on the acquisition


Pretty stoked the communities information isn’t being sold to some chinese data mining company
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: tanvir175 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 13:57:25
cautious optimism

gonna send in a mod application a little later on today

Please, for the love of all that is holy, **** no. Don't do it, Massdrop. It's bad enough that he's an r/mk mod.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:03:51
I just got back from KeyCon where I enjoyed some of the most excellent fellowship and hard-core geekery I've ever had the pleasure to enjoy in my life, and I was actually just musing to myself how fortunate I felt to have been a part of such a great community of people for so many years. Keyboards have become a huge part of my life since that day back in 2013 when I first discovered GeekHack and stayed up for 48 hours straight learning everything I could about Cherry switches. To me, GeekHack isn't the keys to the server that the forum runs on; it's the sum total interactions of the amazing, kind, generous people who have made this place what it has been for so long, many of whom have become some of my dearest friends. So, I have to confess: set against that otherwise happy mood and context, this news arrived to me with a considerable amount of heartbreak.

I frankly didn't even realize GeekHack had an "owner" until yesterday. I had always assumed that it was simply run by a collective of sort of moderator-trustees with the primary aim of serving the community. It never occurred to me that in all my years of interactions on the site, sharing and mutual learning, creating and documenting projects, and more recently organizing group buys for people who want the same stuff I do, that I was actually just cultivating a cash asset for someone I'd never heard of—something that could be bundled up, packaged, and sold to the highest bidder. So, when it comes to my feelings on the matter, the particular identity of that high-bidder isn't really material. It's the fact that there was ever bidding in the first place.

For whatever it's worth, though, while MassDrop may not be the worst buyer imaginable, comparing it against an anonymous hostile Chinese takeover is kind of maybe a low bar. And I think this awesome community is worthy of a very high bar indeed. My experiences as a customer and sometime business partner of MassDrop have been decidedly mixed. Without digressing too much into those experiences, one thing I think that is pretty safe to assert: when it comes to creating a friendly, positive, community-spirited social atmosphere online, MassDrop discussion treads are probably not the greatest portfolio piece for that company as a custodian of online community spirit.

Also, in my experience, it's not possible within most corporate cultures to justify getting into a bidding war and paying top dollar for an asset unless you have very specific plans to monetize it and get some kind of return on that investment. I don't know what MassDrop's plans are for that monetization, but even if they claimed they didn't have any (which they haven't quite gone so far as to do at this point), I'm not sure that would be terribly credible. I'm not looking forward to seeing what the roll-out of those plans looks like, which would surely be timed to emerge well after this controversy dies down. The language of the announcement appears carefully worded to leave just the right openings for this kind of strategic long game. I'm not ascribing malice here; I'm just trying to be realistic.

Obviously, I don't object to commercial activity in this community. I've sort of fallen into that myself, and it's a lot of fun. The whole premise is being obsessed with particular physical objects, and a necessary part of the premise of making stuff is money or goods changing hands. I've also been delighted to be able to buy things from other members of the community for years, whether professional vendors or not. Commerce is one thing; community ownership is something else entirely.

As far as I'm concerned, we the people of GeekHack who have built is content, its traffic, and its culture over these many years are its true owners. (Having watched it all unfold, I can say with some confidence that GeekHack made MassDrop viable, not the other way around.) Despite the bad forum software, eye-ball searing color scheme, and logistical annoyances, I've persisted here in doing projects at GeekHack because of my nostalgic attachment to the site and my deep affection for my fellow members of its community. My participation here has always been about furthering that community, and that's what I thought I was doing all along.

I'm just not sure how enthusiastic I am to continue participating here merely to build further cash-value for the VCs backing MassDrop, rather than being able to think about it as building value for a shared community that can control it own destiny. Without the community-oriented mission and spirit, this is just a really ugly website.

Perhaps American Independence Day is an appropriate day for this revelation. For those of us who have the kind of sentimental attachment to this community that I have described—or at least what we thought this community was—maybe it's time for us to think about rallying elsewhere. Wouldn't it be kind of be an amusing Oedipal irony if it turned out that MassDrop grossly overpaid for GeekHack as asset, the acquisition of which precipitated its own collapse?

Thanks for putting in to words a lot of what I’ve been thinking this morning after reading this forum. I feel like the past two days have been somewhat like hearing your best friend was dying, finding out that someone could possibly donate an organ to save him, and then hearing that the donated organ was a brain transplant. 
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:04:41
normie invasion B)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Poesjuh on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:05:27
So @Will, an actual question :P

Q: the recent GMK Keycap sets on MD have reacher much higher numbers than ever on GH. This is in most ways a benefit; 1) they actually get produced, 2) prices usually are lower. Would MD host GMK Keycap GB’s that originate from GH and if so; would actual proxies be an option? As someone from the EU buying via MD has always been an incredible expensive option (mostly due to customs and higher shipping prices), plus it just feels wrong and weird that a Keycap set from GMK get’s shipped from the EU to USA then back to EU.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: GeneriksGiraffe on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:08:48
Perhaps American Independence Day is an appropriate day for this revelation. For those of us who have the kind of sentimental attachment to this community that I have described—or at least what we thought this community was—maybe it's time for us to think about rallying elsewhere. Wouldn't it be kind of be an amusing Oedipal irony if it turned out that MassDrop grossly overpaid for GeekHack as asset, the acquisition of which precipitated its own collapse?

So basically like when Microsoft bought Minecraft...
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Zeal on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:11:38
-snip-

+100 gild
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Yeoh on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:14:50
cautious optimism

gonna send in a mod application a little later on today

puddsy being a mod is worse than some Chinese data farming company buying gh

Hope this is indeed true:

We are making no changes to the moderator or admin team.

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: brianjking on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:22:44
Hello Friends,

My name is Will Bright, I’m a Co-Founder of Massdrop, GH lurker since ‘08 and member since ‘12. Yesterday we purchased Geekhack.

I learned about the sale thread on Monday morning, and my first reaction was.... Wut? Like many thread participants, I was surprised to see this and concerned with the potential outcomes. I’ve spent my entire life in enthusiast communities, and I’ve seen many great communities disperse because of dramatic changes in ownership or management. On Monday, I feared Geekhack would meet a similar fate. From there, I called a meeting of our founding team to discuss purchasing Geekhack with the primary goal of preserving it.

There’s a lot of great stuff about GH, some would argue there’s garbage stuff about GH, but I think it’s hard to debate the dedication and sense of community created by the mods and long-term members of this community. In purchasing Geekhack, our goal is to support that dedication and empower the moderator team to continue improving the community you’ve all invested so much to build.

We’re not making any immediate changes. All rules, standards, processes, and regulations are the same this week as they were last week, and will be the same next week, and the week after, etc. We’re not making GH an advertising platform. We’re not interested in playing favorites with vendors or group buys. We are making no changes to the moderator or admin team.

This change in ownership should affect a 0% change in your GH experience.

That said, GH won’t remain the same forever, it shouldn’t. Communities are organic, they grow, they evolve. The key from our point of view is to support that growth, rather than direct that growth. We’re working with the mod team and dedicated community members to learn more about where the community is headed and what we can do as owners to facilitate that growth. Rest assured, any notable changes will be the result of community supported initiatives, not the will of some distant actor. 

By this point, hopefully you’re feeling cautiously optimistic, but you’re probably looking for the catch. How does Massdrop as a business benefit from buying GH if we’re not changing anything to monetize the site? Having a place for people to dive deeper into Mechanical Keyboards helps Massdrop create better products and leads to people being bigger Massdrop customers.

Geekhack is where Mechanical Keyboard enthusiasts can develop their knowledge and create projects together. The community needs a place for that, and we’re excited to help GH continue as that platform.

Best,

Will

P.S. My GH signature was one of the first Massdrop brand assets we made in 2012 and we’re still helping folks manage large group buys today : )


Few questions/comments:


(https://i.imgur.com/o68thB3.png) (https://i.imgur.com/o68thB3.png)


[/size]Thank you.


Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: darthzero on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:23:41
So @Will, an actual question :P

Q: the recent GMK Keycap sets on MD have reacher much higher numbers than ever on GH. This is in most ways a benefit; 1) they actually get produced, 2) prices usually are lower. Would MD host GMK Keycap GB’s that originate from GH and if so; would actual proxies be an option? As someone from the EU buying via MD has always been an incredible expensive option (mostly due to customs and higher shipping prices), plus it just feels wrong and weird that a Keycap set from GMK get’s shipped from the EU to USA then back to EU.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
But most of the time it's a conscious decision by the gb runners to not run through MD. You can apply "your" keyset at MD if you care to run it through them and have good feedback on your IC. I don't think this would be a good solution.  Just my 2 cents


At Will/Massdrop, thank you!
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: fendent on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:24:40
...

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Keebmeupscotty on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:26:03
I've only known about this community for about a year, and have really enjoyed the ability to quickly deep dive geekhack has provided. Have been a part of quite a few Massdrop drops now and during that minimal experience, even when things go badly, they seem to try and make it right as much as possible. Gonna share in on the cautious optimism and hope that things can only get better!
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: CommonCurt on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:38:28
Will your avatar makes me uneasy and you look like the typical CEO that increases my holiday bonus but slashes my health insurance.
Hahaha
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:45:07
-snip-

+100 gild

agree hard
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: SpriteMite on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:46:51
r/mk will definitely get a kick out of this lol

This isn't the worst thing that can happen.

(now pls add a change username option i hate this username)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: xondat on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:54:58
r/mk will definitely get a kick out of this lol

This isn't the worst thing that can happen.

(now pls add a change username option i hate this username)

PM a mod and they can (iamtootallforthis, hoffmanmyster, photoelectric, user 18, etc).
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 04 July 2018, 14:59:44
I don't like this. I don't like this at all.
I am absolutely not a fan of Massdrop (http://www.massdrama.com/).

I nearly almost posted something in anger that would surely have got me banned. That's how strongly I feel about this.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:06:31
First off let me say that I am cautiously optimistic also. I have had nothing but good experiences with Massdrop thus far which might color my opinion. I think that one thing that is often missed is that there is a certain amount of symbiosis going on; Geekhack is the first door into the community in a lot of cases, and the ICs and GBs that are held here feed an ecosystem that they depend upon. If this goes bad, they would be hurt and held accountable. Look at the group buys where there are many things out of their control that they are held accountable for- this is much worse. With that in mind, I expect that there will be more control to make sure that people that run GBs on here are going to follow through.  That's not necessarily a bad thing- the devil is in the details.  And that will unfold as time goes on, but hopefully in a proactive way that involves the community.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:11:11
I don't like this. I don't like this at all.
I am absolutely not a fan of Massdrop (http://www.massdrama.com/).

I nearly almost posted something in anger that would surely have got me banned. That's how strongly I feel about this.

Lol, well "Massdrop" is reporting 252 days without incident, idk what other vendors could do that even :)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: davkol on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:17:33
It's more like that site hasn't been updated for that long. I've noticed a bunch of mess-ups since then on Reddit and I don't even follow it.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:24:02
It's more like that site hasn't been updated for that long. I've noticed a bunch of mess-ups since then on Reddit and I don't even follow it.

Hence the irony of linking to the site in that context  :p
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Wetherbee on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:34:21
Time to find a new forum. Geekhack seems to have lost its way and I'm not here to further MD's corporate interests. RIP Geekhack.

Dear Massdrop,

My hobby doesn't belong to you.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:37:08
well this is a disaster. i work with zeal and some of the others i suspect were bidders regularly and would have happily entrusted the site to them if i were still dumping 80 hours of my life a week into the place.

i've met as many lifetime friends on geekhack as i have in literally any other way in my life, and this is feeling pretty unacceptable.

i will be making the rounds over the next few weeks to see how those same friends feel about what just happened. i still own a few domain names that would be perfectly acceptable for a new community home. gearhack.org has been my favorite, but everyone in the coop would get a vote (which is how we did things before, by the way).

ta ta for now though.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Jedi on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:41:10
Massdrop is better for a number of reasons.  Their business model is completely internet based, they have HQ in Silicon Valley, they are staffed with system programmers, software developers, engineers, and teams that work in both the US and overseas.  They are a company first sure, but they have NEVER changed the site from being about the community.  Yes, I am sure they have people that join the discussions that may be "product testers" but every single product they sell starts with community members carrying forward the discussion.  Show us another community designed group buy system that ISN'T following massdrop's design (ahem Input Club) but another site (who is firstly interested in purchasing geekhack) that runs a similar shop.  We will never all agree on a single point but to me I cannot find fault in Massdrop on this one.  iMav could have done far worse and waited another year and likely sold the forum for much much more.  Geekhack has been my home for years.  There is still many many other active forums (slack, discord) and sign up sales (google forms, websites) that will still give new and elder members plenty of opportunity to design, share, and create, beyond what GH has to offer.  Geekhack needs a stable platform, I can't see a larger team of IT and Creative professionals that could have offered GH a better alternative to Massdrop.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mpaarating on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:41:39
I got into MK stuff via MD GBs. As my KB interests are far more niche now than what MD offers, I welcome the new overlords.

It would not be in MD's interests to f*ck with anything on GH. Pretty sure that MD does just fine monetarily to sustain the < $500/month of this forum. It would also sink their KB GBs if they f*ccked over GH.

If you've had a bad experience with MD delivering things on time form GBs, then good news! They aren't running GBs here.

If you've had the MD site crap the bed on you, welcome to web development, god bless. As long as they don't replatform GH onto some custom forum software they cooked up, all should be good.

Relax friends.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:45:33
Dear Massdrop,

My hobby doesn't belong to you.

But it belonged to Mav for like 8 years? I understand a singular entity (which most people weren't even aware existed, even very veteran members) is different from a corporation, though not to the extent some do as I know that notion carries a heavily negative connotation in the US, but saying "the hobby doesn't belong to x or y" after it effectively belonged to z for almost a decade strikes me as a little strange. Knee-jerk reactions like this will always do more harm than good, but people are of course free to do what they feel is right.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:46:12
I suppose we'll see what comes of it in the months to follow.

For me, geekhack is all about the community.  The makers.  The drama.  The asshats.  The givers.  It's all here in perfect proportions.  (Probably need to give a shout out to moderators here too.  The true unsung heroes who keep it all in balance).

I honestly think a lot of what has kept geekhack alive and well is the wealth of information and how well it is indexed on this website and on Google.  This old style of paginated posts might seem outdated to newcomers, but it is certainly search engine friendly.

Hope to god we don't see some javascript heavy site with progressively loading comment chains that are nearly impossible to edit on mobile.

What will the website geekhack.org will become in the future?  I'm trying to wrap my head around why our community has thrived and continued to grow on an older platform.  Yes, Massdrop has helped push forward by bringing more people into the keyboard community.  So has reddit.

But this website is the heart of it all. It's our rallying spot.  All I ask is that if you kids decide to pack up camp, please don't sneak off without telling us where you are headed :)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:47:00
well this is a disaster. i work with zeal and some of the others i suspect were bidders regularly and would have happily entrusted the site to them if i were still dumping 80 hours of my life a week into the place.

i've met as many lifetime friends on geekhack as i have in literally any other way in my life, and this is feeling pretty unacceptable.

i will be making the rounds over the next few weeks to see how those same friends feel about what just happened. i still own a few domain names that would be perfectly acceptable for a new community home. gearhack.org has been my favorite, but everyone in the coop would get a vote (which is how we did things before, by the way).

ta ta for now though.

i mean i'm not disagreeing with you but

it's been like... 5 hours since this was announced?

call me in 6 months

you did a lot of good for GH and i'd join any forum you started, but calling the place ruined is a stretch at this point
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:48:39
Why would MD keeping the community here together benefit them with their buys?

I thought only reddit bought things from MD?

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:51:02
Why would MD keeping the community here together benefit them with their buys?

I thought only reddit bought things from MD?

(Attachment Link)

korean community loves MD from my understanding
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Acereconkeys on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:51:07
Dear Massdrop,

My hobby doesn't belong to you.

But it belonged to Mav for like 8 years? I understand a singular entity (which most people weren't even aware existed, even very veteran members) is different from a corporation, though not to the extent some do as I know that notion carries a heavily negative connotation in the US, but saying "the hobby doesn't belong to x or y" after it effectively belonged to z for almost a decade strikes me as a little strange. Knee-jerk reactions like this will always do more harm than good, but people are of course free to do what they feel is right.

The point was Imav had no vested financial investment in the site. He had no incentive. Massdrop, a corporate entity, has a large investment they need to make dividends on. I think it calls into question many benefits of the site.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: gutsack on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:53:14
I don't like this. I don't like this at all.
I am absolutely not a fan of Massdrop (http://www.massdrama.com/).

I nearly almost posted something in anger that would surely have got me banned. That's how strongly I feel about this.

Not that I'm a Massdrop defender, but if there were an external site called GeekHackDrama it would be full to the gills every day with group buys that took an extra two years, delivered broken PCBs, straight-up never shipped, etc. For some reason it's accepted if a GB is a disaster here but completely unacceptable if MD ships 2% of a buy the wrong parts. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:58:54
It's more like that site hasn't been updated for that long. I've noticed a bunch of mess-ups since then on Reddit and I don't even follow it.
By all means, do remind people on Reddit of that useful site (http://www.massdrama.com/)! I'm not on Reddit myself.

My point in posting it was not to show that number but to show the history of the award-winning company (https://deskthority.net/results-f110/the-ping-award-t17873.html) that has taken over Geekhack.
What I mean is that they have not exactly instilled me with much confidence.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 15:59:13
I don't like this. I don't like this at all.
I am absolutely not a fan of Massdrop (http://www.massdrama.com/).

I nearly almost posted something in anger that would surely have got me banned. That's how strongly I feel about this.

Not that I'm a Massdrop defender, but if there were an external site called GeekHackDrama it would be full to the gills every day with group buys that took an extra two years, delivered broken PCBs, straight-up never shipped, etc. For some reason it's accepted if a GB is a disaster here but completely unacceptable if MD ships 2% of a buy the wrong parts. Just sayin'.

dae geekwhack
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:00:05
The point was Imav had no vested financial investment in the site. He had no incentive. Massdrop, a corporate entity, has a large investment they need to make dividends on. I think it calls into question many benefits of the site.

I understand the sentiment but you mean besides the monthly $250~ he stated he had been paying for the servers and for maintenance over the course of however long? The costs he tried to cover with >>>DEALS<<<.

Massdrop aren't incompetent. Jedi posted a very informative post a little bit ago, and honestly from a business point of view not only is trying to force monetise the site the absolute worst thing they can do, I also firmly believe they'll be in the green far as their investment goes (even if they paid 100gs for it) within the span of one to two years by doing absolutely nothing bar owning the site.

Edit: 250, not 350.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:00:47
one of the primary reasons i left when i did was because imav refused to give up any equity (ownership) stake in the forum. i also know the full costs of running the site from inception until now, and they have been... minimal, to say the least. he has been planning some variant of this for quite a long time.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: lemur on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:01:55
The complaints I have about massdrop could plague geekhack, or not.

I've noticed this on many drops on massdrop:

random product with a lot of unanswered questions about it, lots of people in the talk section asking these questions, wondering whats going on.... drop ends and there is no response from massdrop to any of them.

hyped product with some questions about it, most of them get answered by a massdrop rep of some sort.

.... there is a noticeable difference between the products massdrop stands behind and knows about, and others which they seem to know nothing whatsoever about and theyre just a platform for selling...

I wonder....  will geekhack be one of the things they are willing to put people behind?

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:02:24
Their business model is completely internet based, they have HQ in Silicon Valley, they are staffed with system programmers, software developers, engineers, and teams that work in both the US and overseas.
And ??

That is supposed to instil confidence how? You could say those things about just about EVERY FRIGGIN COMPANY.
Businesses set up shop in Silicon Valley because of name recognition, because it used to be cool and interesting back before most members here even used a computer for the first time.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:03:05
one of the primary reasons i left when i did was because imav refused to give up any equity (ownership) stake in the forum. i also know the full costs of running the site from inception until now, and they have been... minimal, to say the least. he has been planning some variant of this for quite a long time.

Are you forgetting a very big elephant in the room that I really don't want to bring up in public more than this?  Or do you intend to continue posting as if none of that ever happened and you only had the best in mind for the community?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:04:45
one of the primary reasons i left when i did was because imav refused to give up any equity (ownership) stake in the forum. i also know the full costs of running the site from inception until now, and they have been... minimal, to say the least. he has been planning some variant of this for quite a long time.

Are you forgetting a very big elephant in the room that I really don't want to bring up in public more than this?  Or do you intend to continue posting as if none of that ever happened and you only had the best in mind for the community?

careful, you'll wake the keyboard conspiracy theorists
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:05:37
It's not a secret, many people know how he left things when he took his extended leave of absence and what happened with his group buy.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: AMongoose on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:06:23
I also firmly believe they'll be in the green far as their investment goes (even if they paid 100gs for it) within the span of one to two years by doing absolutely nothing bar owning the site.

Might as well had let zeal buy it and keep the money if they didn't need nothing to change  :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:09:08
It's not a secret, many people know how he left things when he took his extended leave of absence and what happened with his group buy.

oh i thought you were talking about something else

that was pretty ****ed up
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:10:06
one of the primary reasons i left when i did was because imav refused to give up any equity (ownership) stake in the forum. i also know the full costs of running the site from inception until now, and they have been... minimal, to say the least. he has been planning some variant of this for quite a long time.

Are you forgetting a very big elephant in the room that I really don't want to bring up in public more than this?  Or do you intend to continue posting as if none of that ever happened and you only had the best in mind for the community?

the elephant is called the smallfry group buy and you rescued the tattered remains of it, almost entirely without my help (or when i was so late with help that it was pointless). i am happy to take more flack for it; this place is associated with a long stretch of pure masochism from me that follows me to this day. there is no situation in which i would take a significant commercial interest in anything new (but corollary, nothing new should have commercial interests). however, with the current (very small) size of the site, I could possibly arrange for the community to have an independent platform again.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: euphxenos on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:13:10
For me, the question this raises is what happens to geekhack if/when Massdrop gets acquired?  Massdrop is a Silicon Valley startup, they look like they're not going to fold, so I would expect them to IPO or get acquired at some point, and an acquisition feels more likely.  If they get acquired by a larger commerce site, the geekhack site seems like something an acquiring company might just shut down.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: fanpeople on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:16:52
Oh I feel like a hypocrite. Whole time sitting here thinking "who gives a ****, it is mavs he can do what he wants". But now I see Massdrop as the new owner. I personally have nothing against massdrop but I don't really like this (I don't even know why). But then again they say at this stage it will be the same, no changes. We will see I guess.

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:17:43
For me, the question this raises is what happens to geekhack if/when Massdrop gets acquired?  Massdrop is a Silicon Valley startup, they look like they're not going to fold, so I would expect them to IPO or get acquired at some point, and an acquisition feels more likely.  If they get acquired by a larger commerce site, the geekhack site seems like something an acquiring company might just shut down.

if they're gonna fold why would they spend 5 figures on a random forum?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mpaarating on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:23:25
Quote
The point was Imav had no vested financial investment in the site. He had no incentive. Massdrop, a corporate entity, has a large investment they need to make dividends on. I think it calls into question many benefits of the site.

I don't think that MD's "dividends" are going to be hurt much by 9k a year in community involvement. They probably spend more than that of office snacks per year.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: russthebus27 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:24:28
For me, the question this raises is what happens to geekhack if/when Massdrop gets acquired?  Massdrop is a Silicon Valley startup, they look like they're not going to fold, so I would expect them to IPO or get acquired at some point, and an acquisition feels more likely.  If they get acquired by a larger commerce site, the geekhack site seems like something an acquiring company might just shut down.

if they're gonna fold why would they spend 5 figures on a random forum?

You don't even read what you quote... literally said "they look like they're NOT going to fold"... c'mon at least show some effort, don't just post to get your count up.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:25:35
For me, the question this raises is what happens to geekhack if/when Massdrop gets acquired?  Massdrop is a Silicon Valley startup, they look like they're not going to fold, so I would expect them to IPO or get acquired at some point, and an acquisition feels more likely.  If they get acquired by a larger commerce site, the geekhack site seems like something an acquiring company might just shut down.

if they're gonna fold why would they spend 5 figures on a random forum?

You don't even read what you quote... literally said "they look like they're NOT going to fold"... c'mon at least show some effort, don't just post to get your count up.

i did read it, just incorrectly

my mistake
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: russthebus27 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:29:14
For me, the question this raises is what happens to geekhack if/when Massdrop gets acquired?  Massdrop is a Silicon Valley startup, they look like they're not going to fold, so I would expect them to IPO or get acquired at some point, and an acquisition feels more likely.  If they get acquired by a larger commerce site, the geekhack site seems like something an acquiring company might just shut down.

if they're gonna fold why would they spend 5 figures on a random forum?


You don't even read what you quote... literally said "they look like they're NOT going to fold"... c'mon at least show some effort, don't just post to get your count up.

i did read it, just incorrectly

my mistake

Fair enough.  Regardless, 5-figure investment is nothing to a multi-million dollar company.  Especially if it keeps a major sector of their sales/profits together.  Also, this move keeps Massdrop in the same breath as Geekhack for the foreseeable future.  The more people talk about it, the more likely they are to visit the site.  Simple influence on consumer behavior.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: kiwi99 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:30:40
For me, the question this raises is what happens to geekhack if/when Massdrop gets acquired?  Massdrop is a Silicon Valley startup, they look like they're not going to fold, so I would expect them to IPO or get acquired at some point, and an acquisition feels more likely.  If they get acquired by a larger commerce site, the geekhack site seems like something an acquiring company might just shut down.

if they're gonna fold why would they spend 5 figures on a random forum?

You don't even read what you quote... literally said "they look like they're NOT going to fold"... c'mon at least show some effort, don't just post to get your count up.

u get double the posts if u mess up everything u say the first time, cmon these are the basics  :llama: :llama: :llama:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:31:56
For me, the question this raises is what happens to geekhack if/when Massdrop gets acquired?  Massdrop is a Silicon Valley startup, they look like they're not going to fold, so I would expect them to IPO or get acquired at some point, and an acquisition feels more likely.  If they get acquired by a larger commerce site, the geekhack site seems like something an acquiring company might just shut down.

if they're gonna fold why would they spend 5 figures on a random forum?


You don't even read what you quote... literally said "they look like they're NOT going to fold"... c'mon at least show some effort, don't just post to get your count up.

i did read it, just incorrectly

my mistake

Fair enough.  Regardless, 5-figure investment is nothing to a multi-million dollar company.  Especially if it keeps a major sector of their sales/profits together.  Also, this move keeps Massdrop in the same breath as Geekhack for the foreseeable future.  The more people talk about it, the more likely they are to visit the site.  Simple influence on consumer behavior.

yeah

fair concern
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:43:10
Please remember that you can formulate some questions for Will / Massdrop that will be answered in a series of Q&As.  I.e. some of the sentiments here could be framed into questions rather than a wild speculation of "what ifs" (technically Yellowstone volcano can erupt next month and change everything, we can never cover every possibility).  And also--beyond the fact that the site was sold is itself a shock--the situation is now what it is, so let's see how it goes.  Everything happened in a rush, and it's too early to say whether any given person here will be content with the transition or not. 
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Jon_Flynn on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:45:19
Hello Friends,

My name is Will Bright, I’m a Co-Founder of Massdrop, GH lurker since ‘08 and member since ‘12. Yesterday we purchased Geekhack.

I learned about the sale thread on Monday morning, and my first reaction was.... Wut? Like many thread participants, I was surprised to see this and concerned with the potential outcomes. I’ve spent my entire life in enthusiast communities, and I’ve seen many great communities disperse because of dramatic changes in ownership or management. On Monday, I feared Geekhack would meet a similar fate. From there, I called a meeting of our founding team to discuss purchasing Geekhack with the primary goal of preserving it.

There’s a lot of great stuff about GH, some would argue there’s garbage stuff about GH, but I think it’s hard to debate the dedication and sense of community created by the mods and long-term members of this community. In purchasing Geekhack, our goal is to support that dedication and empower the moderator team to continue improving the community you’ve all invested so much to build.

We’re not making any immediate changes. All rules, standards, processes, and regulations are the same this week as they were last week, and will be the same next week, and the week after, etc. We’re not making GH an advertising platform. We’re not interested in playing favorites with vendors or group buys. We are making no changes to the moderator or admin team.

This change in ownership should affect a 0% change in your GH experience.

That said, GH won’t remain the same forever, it shouldn’t. Communities are organic, they grow, they evolve. The key from our point of view is to support that growth, rather than direct that growth. We’re working with the mod team and dedicated community members to learn more about where the community is headed and what we can do as owners to facilitate that growth. Rest assured, any notable changes will be the result of community supported initiatives, not the will of some distant actor. 

By this point, hopefully you’re feeling cautiously optimistic, but you’re probably looking for the catch. How does Massdrop as a business benefit from buying GH if we’re not changing anything to monetize the site? Having a place for people to dive deeper into Mechanical Keyboards helps Massdrop create better products and leads to people being bigger Massdrop customers.

Geekhack is where Mechanical Keyboard enthusiasts can develop their knowledge and create projects together. The community needs a place for that, and we’re excited to help GH continue as that platform.

Best,

Will

P.S. My GH signature was one of the first Massdrop brand assets we made in 2012 and we’re still helping folks manage large group buys today : )

Will,

Still to make up my mind on the whole acquisition thing, but irrespective, when searching Massdrop on Crunchbase - you aren't listed as one of the founders/co-founders?

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/massdrop#section-investors

The same is for Massdrops about page - no mention of you there either...

https://www.massdrop.com/about

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: KeyboardUser4 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:48:46
removed
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Jon_Flynn on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:50:08
Hello Friends,

My name is Will Bright, I’m a Co-Founder of Massdrop, GH lurker since ‘08 and member since ‘12. Yesterday we purchased Geekhack.

I learned about the sale thread on Monday morning, and my first reaction was.... Wut? Like many thread participants, I was surprised to see this and concerned with the potential outcomes. I’ve spent my entire life in enthusiast communities, and I’ve seen many great communities disperse because of dramatic changes in ownership or management. On Monday, I feared Geekhack would meet a similar fate. From there, I called a meeting of our founding team to discuss purchasing Geekhack with the primary goal of preserving it.

There’s a lot of great stuff about GH, some would argue there’s garbage stuff about GH, but I think it’s hard to debate the dedication and sense of community created by the mods and long-term members of this community. In purchasing Geekhack, our goal is to support that dedication and empower the moderator team to continue improving the community you’ve all invested so much to build.

We’re not making any immediate changes. All rules, standards, processes, and regulations are the same this week as they were last week, and will be the same next week, and the week after, etc. We’re not making GH an advertising platform. We’re not interested in playing favorites with vendors or group buys. We are making no changes to the moderator or admin team.

This change in ownership should affect a 0% change in your GH experience.

That said, GH won’t remain the same forever, it shouldn’t. Communities are organic, they grow, they evolve. The key from our point of view is to support that growth, rather than direct that growth. We’re working with the mod team and dedicated community members to learn more about where the community is headed and what we can do as owners to facilitate that growth. Rest assured, any notable changes will be the result of community supported initiatives, not the will of some distant actor. 

By this point, hopefully you’re feeling cautiously optimistic, but you’re probably looking for the catch. How does Massdrop as a business benefit from buying GH if we’re not changing anything to monetize the site? Having a place for people to dive deeper into Mechanical Keyboards helps Massdrop create better products and leads to people being bigger Massdrop customers.

Geekhack is where Mechanical Keyboard enthusiasts can develop their knowledge and create projects together. The community needs a place for that, and we’re excited to help GH continue as that platform.

Best,

Will

P.S. My GH signature was one of the first Massdrop brand assets we made in 2012 and we’re still helping folks manage large group buys today : )

Will,

Still to make up my mind on the whole acquisition thing, but irrespective, when searching Massdrop on Crunchbase - you aren't listed as one of the founders/co-founders?

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/massdrop#section-investors

The same is for Massdrops about page - no mention of you there either...

https://www.massdrop.com/about

https://www.massdrop.com/talk/1954/the-history-of-massdrop


"Early on, Steve and Nelson were joined by Jasper Chan and Will Bright, and together the four formed the founding team"

thanks - also found him here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/wbrght/
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:51:54
This change in ownership should affect a 0% change in your GH experience.

This is all most of us ever wanted. Cautious optimism indeed.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: HotRoderX on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:53:53
I think this will fall on deaf ears but what ever.

People are seriously over reacting and acting childish. People are saying lets start a new forum blah blah blah. Thais great but someone's gotta fund it and guess what it still isn't community owned. There also the fact the sequeal rarely lives up to the hype of the original.

This is the most likely outcome from the way things are going now. People are going to knee jerk. The community is going to splinter and geek hack will forever be lost. Reddit will continue, DT will Continue. Geekhack will be a shell. What ever new website people conjure up will never be as good or as capable and at some point will suffer the same fate.

People need to take a deep breath and look at this logically. MD bought geekhack why? Cause of profits duh! They see the money that geekhack already makes them and the thought of losing that most likely bothers them. They also see the fact they can make more money. How.. hmm easiest way would be to continue doing what there doing but offer a olive branch to group buy runners.
Hey we here at Massdrop will run XYZ for you. Think of the incoming's that could have happened but never panned out because of time, money, logistics etc etc. Now massdrop can step in. They can offer to help run it and guess what. They profit and the community profits.

This talk of finding another forum and jumping ship by some is just dumb. I mean ok jump ship now what? What happens if people don't move over. What happens if People decided that moving is to much hassle. What happens when the community loses interest and is no longer funding this little community owned oasis people are dreaming up. What happens when someone does create a forum gets a bunch of you to join then pulls a Ivan with your personal data? Think about it right now people are ripe for the picking as far as scam's go. What better scam to make you a TON of money then get a bunch of people to sign up on your website for a new amazing forum. That you then turn around in sell to a Chinese data mining company in 6-12months for few thousand dollar's profit.

Then on top of all that keep in mind your going to take on the legal trouble of running said sight thanks to the European law's that were recently enacted.

This entire coming down on the website and massdrop before you even see whats going to happen is kinda childish and I do get it. Emotions investment but instead of being pissed that the sight got sold. Instead of being upset that the community had its feathers ruffled. Prove to everyone that people can come together and get thought the tough times.

I see massdrop doing this not to make money though advertising but thought group buy's and to just in general generate goodwill among people after what happened with Inputclub. As far as Inputclub goes. There about as shady as they come. I will leave off my exact thoughts of them for now. I will add they did a lot for the community back in the day but in my eyes there as shady as Imav when it comes to almost everything recently. I do trust Massdrop over them.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:55:38
I think this will fall on deaf ears but what ever.

People are seriously over reacting and acting childish.

could have stopped here
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: gutsack on Wed, 04 July 2018, 16:58:42
I think this will fall on deaf ears but what ever.

People are seriously over reacting and acting childish.

could have stopped here

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Will on Wed, 04 July 2018, 17:36:06
Hello Will
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: joey on Wed, 04 July 2018, 17:39:28
Hello Will
I just love that this is your first post in 7 years.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 17:43:45
Hello Will
I just love that this is your first post in 7 years.

news travels fast
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: RougeR on Wed, 04 July 2018, 17:46:35
Hello Will

Hello Will
(can i play too)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 17:52:25
Hello Will

Hello Will
(can i play too)

ruined it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: KeyboardUser4 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:14:02
removed
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: schoolbus on Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:17:59
hey mods, no one would look down on you if you want to step down.

it's always humorous how passionate people get over things based on currently unrealized fears
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Glod on Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:30:55
This is the best possible outcome. People need to be more optimistic. MD has pulled off miracles in the past but people only focus on shipping mistakes and distribution rights.

My only question for Will is does this mean we will see geekhack labeled merc/devices on massdrop. I am not sure how i feel about that if that if that happens.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: brianjking on Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:33:20
I don't like this. I don't like this at all.
I am absolutely not a fan of Massdrop (http://www.massdrama.com/).

I nearly almost posted something in anger that would surely have got me banned. That's how strongly I feel about this.

Lol, well "Massdrop" is reporting 252 days without incident, idk what other vendors could do that even :)


lol, in fairness I think whoever is the administer of the massdrama site just stopped updating it.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:34:51
it's always humorous how passionate people get over things based on currently unrealized fears

I just think it's a little awkward to watch. He's already gotten them good, pesky corporate Massdroppers won't have access to the avatar he removed nor to his most recent posts because he's taking the appropriate precautionary principles of erasing them. One would think that'd be enough, plus I don't think I'm fit to comment further as the mentality toward this kind of thing is entirely different where I come from, maybe we should all be nuking our accounts for fear that they fall into the wrong hands of the people that already have access to our information through MD either way. Or maybe I'm way off, I don't know what kind of stand people are even attempting to make with asking to be deleted, I might be missing something paramount.

Plus, isn't there already a thread to talk about that kinda thing? I think bickering about it here is uncalled for.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:41:00
hey mods, no one would look down on you if you want to step down.

it's always humorous how passionate people get over things based on currently unrealized fears

my favorite part of all this news tbh
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:59:42
Well, I guess I don't have to worry about my info being sold to big chyna at least.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: heyitsqi on Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:09:50
I would just like MD to work on getting the forums in a usable state on mobile that doesn't involve Tapatalk. Thanks.
Title: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:10:42
I would just like MD to work on getting the forums in a usable state on mobile that doesn't involve Tapatalk. Thanks.

what’s wrong with tapatalk?
SENT FROM MY IPHONE USING TAPATALK
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:12:43
Well, I guess I don't have to worry about my info being sold to big chyna at least.  :rolleyes:

small victories
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: futurecrime on Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:17:42
Will your avatar makes me uneasy and you look like the typical CEO that increases my holiday bonus but slashes my health insurance.

This is my favourite so far, followed by Norbauer's speech which almost made me stand on my desk and salute.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: MMKB on Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:22:44
Last I heard was Microsoft buying Github
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: gutsack on Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:28:58
Last I heard was Microsoft buying Github

Jesus all the news is breaking today
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Wetherbee on Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:52:25
I joined geekhack for the artisan community, the makers, and the designers, not to be Massdrop's captive audience so they can push their corporate agenda.

Massdrop isn't ponying up cash to buy this community because they have your interests at heart. They aren't interested in how you make refinements to Korean customs or how best to mix the colors for your artisanal resin. They are doing it because it will put money into their pockets. There is nothing wrong with corporate greed but I personally don't see Massdrop providing any value to the community. The goal of a distributor is to control the market and push out competitors and this is exactly what they are doing. This is exactly what AB Inbev does to craft breweries in their attempts to control distribution and the end result is not good for the consumer. Massdrop uses their market share to drive the profits of groupbuys towards their own pockets, resulting in increased prices for you.

Go ahead and take a "wait and see" approach, but I think folks are just in shock and denial. Massdrop will sit on the investment for a while until it becomes the new normal and then they will slowly start making subtle changes to further their own interests and justify the purchase. Legally they own everything you post.

I would rather geekhack died and the community move to other platforms rather than give it to these corporate interests. Massdrop has proven over time that they rarely, if ever, care about the interests of our community. Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: manitoid on Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:59:54
Last I heard was Microsoft buying Github

Jesus all the news is breaking today

You're like a month late on the github news bub
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: jb1830 on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:02:40
I just got back from KeyCon...

I share many of the same sentiments.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: gutsack on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:03:23
Last I heard was Microsoft buying Github

Jesus all the news is breaking today

You're like a month late on the github news bub

Sarcasm is dead, can Massdrop buy that and save it too?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:04:14
I just got back from KeyCon where I enjoyed some of the most excellent fellowship and hard-core geekery I've ever had the pleasure to enjoy in my life, and I was actually just musing to myself how fortunate I felt to have been a part of such a great community of people for so many years. Keyboards have become a huge part of my life since that day back in 2013 when I first discovered GeekHack and stayed up for 48 hours straight learning everything I could about Cherry switches. To me, GeekHack isn't the keys to the server that the forum runs on; it's the sum total interactions of the amazing, kind, generous people who have made this place what it has been for so long, many of whom have become some of my dearest friends. So, I have to confess: set against that otherwise happy mood and context, this news arrived to me with a considerable amount of heartbreak.

I frankly didn't even realize GeekHack had an "owner" until yesterday. I had always assumed that it was simply run by a collective of sort of moderator-trustees with the primary aim of serving the community. It never occurred to me that in all my years of interactions on the site, sharing and mutual learning, creating and documenting projects, and more recently organizing group buys for people who want the same stuff I do, that I was actually just cultivating a cash asset for someone I'd never heard of—something that could be bundled up, packaged, and sold to the highest bidder. So, when it comes to my feelings on the matter, the particular identity of that high-bidder isn't really material. It's the fact that there was ever bidding in the first place.

For whatever it's worth, though, while MassDrop may not be the worst buyer imaginable, comparing it against an anonymous hostile Chinese takeover is kind of maybe a low bar. And I think this awesome community is worthy of a very high bar indeed. My experiences as a customer and sometime business partner of MassDrop have been decidedly mixed. Without digressing too much into those experiences, one thing I think that is pretty safe to assert: when it comes to creating a friendly, positive, community-spirited social atmosphere online, MassDrop discussion treads are probably not the greatest portfolio piece for that company as a custodian of online community spirit.

Also, in my experience, it's not possible within most corporate cultures to justify getting into a bidding war and paying top dollar for an asset unless you have very specific plans to monetize it and get some kind of return on that investment. I don't know what MassDrop's plans are for that monetization, but even if they claimed they didn't have any (which they haven't quite gone so far as to do at this point), I'm not sure that would be terribly credible. I'm not looking forward to seeing what the roll-out of those plans looks like, which would surely be timed to emerge well after this controversy dies down. The language of the announcement appears carefully worded to leave just the right openings for this kind of strategic long game. I'm not ascribing malice here; I'm just trying to be realistic.

Obviously, I don't object to commercial activity in this community. I've sort of fallen into that myself, and it's a lot of fun. The whole premise is being obsessed with particular physical objects, and a necessary part of the premise of making stuff is money or goods changing hands. I've also been delighted to be able to buy things from other members of the community for years, whether professional vendors or not. Commerce is one thing; community ownership is something else entirely.

As far as I'm concerned, we the people of GeekHack who have built is content, its traffic, and its culture over these many years are its true owners. (Having watched it all unfold, I can say with some confidence that GeekHack made MassDrop viable, not the other way around.) Despite the bad forum software, eye-ball searing color scheme, and logistical annoyances, I've persisted here in doing projects at GeekHack because of my nostalgic attachment to the site and my deep affection for my fellow members of its community. My participation here has always been about furthering that community, and that's what I thought I was doing all along.

I'm just not sure how enthusiastic I am to continue participating here merely to build further cash-value for the VCs backing MassDrop, rather than being able to think about it as building value for a shared community that can control it own destiny. Without the community-oriented mission and spirit, this is just a really ugly website.

Perhaps American Independence Day is an appropriate day for this revelation. For those of us who have the kind of sentimental attachment to this community that I have described—or at least what we thought this community was—maybe it's time for us to think about rallying elsewhere. Wouldn't it be kind of be an amusing Oedipal irony if it turned out that MassDrop grossly overpaid for GeekHack as asset, the acquisition of which precipitated its own collapse?

Very well said my friend, while I am fairly new & pretty unknown here the community atmosphere is what drew me in & kept me here. Your post definitely has giving me a different angle to view this situation at. Dicey times for us here for sure, but I feel like MD at least deserves a shot to back up their claims before we start jumping ship. That said I would be 100% behind a community owned & run site for us to congregate at even if GH still stays a decent place for us.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Wetherbee on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:10:24

Honestly most of the hardcore artisan and manufacturing community has already splintered off and moved to other platforms where they can focus on their specific geekery in more depth.

I'm just waiting for Norbauer to start his own community and then I'll literally have no more reason to use Geekhack at all.
Title: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:13:17
I joined geekhack for the artisan community, the makers, and the designers, not to be Massdrop's captive audience so they can push their corporate agenda.

Massdrop isn't ponying up cash to buy this community because they have your interests at heart. They aren't interested in how you make refinements to Korean customs or how best to mix the colors for your artisanal resin. They are doing it because it will put money into their pockets. There is nothing wrong with corporate greed but I personally don't see Massdrop providing any value to the community. The goal of a distributor is to control the market and push out competitors and this is exactly what they are doing. This is exactly what AB Inbev does to craft breweries in their attempts to control distribution and the end result is not good for the consumer. Massdrop uses their market share to drive the profits of groupbuys towards their own pockets, resulting in increased prices for you.

Go ahead and take a "wait and see" approach, but I think folks are just in shock and denial. Massdrop will sit on the investment for a while until it becomes the new normal and then they will slowly start making subtle changes to further their own interests and justify the purchase. Legally they own everything you post.

I would rather geekhack died and the community move to other platforms rather than give it to these corporate interests. Massdrop has proven over time that they rarely, if ever, care about the interests of our community. Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.

But Massdrop will gain their full money back in 2-3 years if everything is kept the same with minor improvements. If they start “pushing their corporate agenda”, then they will lose all the money they paid for the site.

I’m happy to see all the r/hailcorporate wacks leave the community though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:34:16
Honestly most of the hardcore artisan and manufacturing community has already splintered off and moved to other platforms where they can focus on their specific geekery in more depth.

I'm just waiting for Norbauer to start his own community and then I'll literally have no more reason to use Geekhack at all.

I think you grossly underestimate how hard it is to actually get a meaningful amount of people to leave just because you feel it is warranted to leave or that it's the right move. There are a ton of users (I'd wager the vast majority) that really don't care who owns the website, who had (and still don't) no idea who iMav even is, who have no idea who the mods are, etc. It's really hard to get people to take action, people enjoy being comfortable even if alternatives out there are thousandfold "better" - especially when in the eyes of many, there isn't even a problem to deal with yet. It's the whole prepper/survivalist paradox. Is the world gonna end and should you be ready for it? Maybe.

Most successful artisans don't need GH, they haven't for a while, they can run their raffles literally anywhere and get 500% cap on their entry limit because of the dynamic of the niche - they produce very little and the hardcore people who are crazy about artisan caps are plentiful in comparison. Good for them, truly, there are makers within the community whom I consider to be my very good friends, but it's a really bad example to use if you want to portray an exodus.

I hate to wave the "corporate wacks" flag Dimo raised, but it really seems to be true for the better part right now. It's just the way it is, though, some people will always see big companies like this as the big bad and wait for the day where the looming impending doom finally comes crashing down because they've been burned one too many times - or not, actually, you never know these days because of the whole victim/offended culture that's being widespread of late where people went from being resentful and fearful for things they've suffered through, to feeling that because of things their ancestors went through, to now feeling like that over people they read about on wikipedia and see on the news. I'm not saying that scenario is entirely impossible, I believe it to be well within the realm of possibility most the time including here, I just find it unlikely in this particular situation from a business stand point hence my stance on it.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: yinzer on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:41:37

But Massdrop will gain their full money back in 2-3 years if everything is kept the same with minor improvements. If they start “pushing their corporate agenda”, then they will lose all the money they paid for the site.

I’m happy to see all the r/hailcorporate wacks leave the community though


Are you kidding me, dude? Slow your roll.

People are upset that there is a big vendor buying the forum. It's not unreasonable to be suspicious. Even Will in the OP said that he hoped that people would even be "cautiously optimistic". Some people are overreacting for sure, but they're no more r/hailcorporate than you are a white knight for Massdrop.
Title: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:46:29

But Massdrop will gain their full money back in 2-3 years if everything is kept the same with minor improvements. If they start “pushing their corporate agenda”, then they will lose all the money they paid for the site.

I’m happy to see all the r/hailcorporate wacks leave the community though


Are you kidding me, dude? Slow your roll.

People are upset that there is a big vendor buying the forum. It's not unreasonable to be suspicious. Even Will in the OP said that he hoped that people would even be "cautiously optimistic". Some people are overreacting for sure, but they're no more r/hailcorporate than you are a white knight for Massdrop.

You’re telling me to slow my roll when the guy I was replying to literally wanted to break off from Geekhack no matter what happens and form his own forum? And he made that decision in less than 12 hours after the announcement. He literally said “I hope geekhack dies off” based off MD making 1 announcement post.

I’m sorry I’m throwing phrases out but it seems appropriate when a lot of people should be slowing their rolls and chilling the **** out to see what ACTUALLY happens.

And yes, if this dude is saying “geekhack should die off” and is so willing to switch to a different forum. I’d be happy to see him go.

Although I also don’t understand how MD will destroy the “artisan business”. Will they force them to use MD instead of raffling on r/mm? **** no that’s not happening

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:49:33
I think this will fall on deaf ears but what ever.

People are seriously over reacting and acting childish.

could have stopped here

Geekhackers? Overreacting? Never!!?!??!

I joined geekhack for the artisan community, the makers, and the designers, not to be Massdrop's captive audience so they can push their corporate agenda.

Massdrop isn't ponying up cash to buy this community because they have your interests at heart. They aren't interested in how you make refinements to Korean customs or how best to mix the colors for your artisanal resin. They are doing it because it will put money into their pockets. There is nothing wrong with corporate greed but I personally don't see Massdrop providing any value to the community. The goal of a distributor is to control the market and push out competitors and this is exactly what they are doing. This is exactly what AB Inbev does to craft breweries in their attempts to control distribution and the end result is not good for the consumer. Massdrop uses their market share to drive the profits of groupbuys towards their own pockets, resulting in increased prices for you.

Go ahead and take a "wait and see" approach, but I think folks are just in shock and denial. Massdrop will sit on the investment for a while until it becomes the new normal and then they will slowly start making subtle changes to further their own interests and justify the purchase. Legally they own everything you post.

I would rather geekhack died and the community move to other platforms rather than give it to these corporate interests. Massdrop has proven over time that they rarely, if ever, care about the interests of our community. Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.

While I am, in my very nature, a sceptic, I think you are being very over sceptical about this whole thing. The only posts I've seen from you in this thread are about how you think MD are going to try and push their products on you, and how that is going to destroy your experience of the forum.

If you actually read the initial post past the "Hi I'm will from Massdrop and we just bought Geekhack" sentence, you would have seen their intentions, history in the community, the mods positivity around it, and the ethos that is trying to be pushed out to us all. Yeah sure, you can keep thinking that MD are going to turn into overzealous corporate overlords who will put banner ads everywhere, but I don't think you'll get very far in life with that mentality.

I want to take the statement at face value, and appreciate that MD have not quite saved us from a bad deal at the hands of the Chinese, but are willing to try and keep the community in the community.

Massdrop already have a presence on this forum, and to push it outside of it's current form would be a bad move in my opinion and they are going to get nowhere with their investment of however many thousands of dollars if they try pushing things that aren't keyboards to a keyboard community. We know Massdrop exists, we know what they sell, and they know we know what they sell. They don't need to sell themselves to us.

I obviously don't get the concern about being an artisan maker because I don't do any of that stuff, but how could MD possibly be encroaching on your business in that sense?



Now in terms of questions, I have a couple that I might add to as time goes on:

Q1: What do you want me to do with my monthly donation? Cancel or keep it going?

Q2: Will my @geekhack.org email address continue to work and redirect or will I have to contact someone about that?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Wetherbee on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:53:16
I think you grossly underestimate how hard it is to actually get a meaningful amount of people to leave just because you feel it is warranted to leave or that it's the right move.

You are putting words in my mouth. Moving en-masse to another platform is a fantasy. Also, business fuels this community - artisans and makers are only succesful insofar as they can bring their goods to market. They should be able to make a living working at their art. However, allowing ambitious distributors and middle-men to literally own the medium of communication is not a good idea.

The fact that we let this happen is just an indicator, for me personally, that I'm not sure geekhack is going to be as relevant to me going forward as it once was. I'm not saying the same may be true for you.



Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:54:58
massdrop.com now owns all of your posts on this forum and every single private message you have ever sent or received on this platform.

further, this means they can resell them at will in whole or in part to anyone or anything. you may have noticed that they have also currently locked you out of your user control panel.

have fun!
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: yinzer on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:57:39

But Massdrop will gain their full money back in 2-3 years if everything is kept the same with minor improvements. If they start “pushing their corporate agenda”, then they will lose all the money they paid for the site.

I’m happy to see all the r/hailcorporate wacks leave the community though


Are you kidding me, dude? Slow your roll.

People are upset that there is a big vendor buying the forum. It's not unreasonable to be suspicious. Even Will in the OP said that he hoped that people would even be "cautiously optimistic". Some people are overreacting for sure, but they're no more r/hailcorporate than you are a white knight for Massdrop.

You’re telling me to slow my roll when the guy I was replying to literally wanted to break off from Geekhack no matter what happens and form his own forum? And he made that decision in less than 12 hours after the announcement. He literally said “I hope geekhack dies off” based off MD making 1 announcement post.

I’m sorry I’m throwing phrases out but it seems appropriate when a lot of people should be slowing their rolls and chilling the **** out to see what ACTUALLY happens.

And yes, if this dude is saying “geekhack should die off” and is so willing to switch to a different forum. I’d be happy to see him go.

Although I also don’t understand how MD will destroy the “artisan business”. Will they force them to use MD instead of raffling on r/mm? **** no that’s not happening

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There's a middle ground a lot of people are missing, including you.
Title: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:57:59
massdrop.com now owns all of your posts on this forum and every single private message you have ever sent or received on this platform.

further, this means they can resell them at will in whole or in part to anyone or anything. you may have noticed that they have also currently locked you out of your user control panel.

have fun!

Will is actually Chinese and is currently data mining our info while posed as a stock photo white dude in his pfp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:00:17
massdrop.com now owns all of your posts on this forum and every single private message you have ever sent or received on this platform.

further, this means they can resell them at will in whole or in part to anyone or anything. you may have noticed that they have also currently locked you out of your user control panel.

have fun!

Yeah, welcome to the world. Every site ever could do that to you if they wanted. Hell, iMav could have sold your data five years ago or even yesterday to a Chinese bloke, but because this company (that is full of members of other communities enthusiastic about all sorts of things, one of whom has been here on this forum for six years) has bought the site, you are immediately sceptical? I don't think naïve is the right word for it, but I think it's pretty stupid to think a business is less responsible about your personal data than a bloke.

Which part of the control panel are you talking about? I can get into all of the parts of my account and profile settings like I could before...
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: manitoid on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:03:10
Honestly most of the hardcore artisan and manufacturing community has already splintered off and moved to other platforms where they can focus on their specific geekery in more depth.

I'm just waiting for Norbauer to start his own community and then I'll literally have no more reason to use Geekhack at all.

I think you grossly underestimate how hard it is to actually get a meaningful amount of people to leave just because you feel it is warranted to leave or that it's the right move. There are a ton of users (I'd wager the vast majority) that really don't care who owns the website, who had (and still don't) no idea who iMav even is, who have no idea who the mods are, etc. It's really hard to get people to take action, people enjoy being comfortable even if alternatives out there are thousandfold "better" - especially when in the eyes of many, there isn't even a problem to deal with yet. It's the whole prepper/survivalist paradox. Is the world gonna end and should you be ready for it? Maybe.

I think you underestimate the the amount of value that the "1%" in this forum bring to the table.
99% of the people might not care who owns the site, but they also don't create much value (OC).


Does anyone remember LivingWithStyle forums from the early 2000s?
Just about 10 years ago, LWS was sold and basically all of the sub-forums splintered off into their own sites. Some of them still owned by the new company that bought LWS and some cut ties and we're built from the ground up as replacements for the respective sub-forums. It didn't matter who owned the new forums, just about every single one of them failed. The only one I know of still up is casualdiscourse.com but it's functionally dead, no one uses it.

Problem was exactly what you think makes this not a problem.
99% of the users didn't care who was running it and went where the site told them to.
1% of users that created content, didn't jive well with the new owners and went elsewhere (reddit was just a baby at this time, most migrated here).

As a result, the forums with members had a lack of content, and the forums with content had a lack of users.
Everyone folded.

I was part-owner of one of the more popular sub-forums, and we decided to build a new forum without the help of the buying group. We lasted a few years, but honestly we ended up doing the same thing as iMav here, selling it off to the highest bidder after treading water for 4-5 years. (a forum was worth a lot less back then, even with more than 5x the daily pageviews being reported for GH)


Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:04:29
I'll try to be optimistic.
But I'll also try to learn Korean.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:04:52
You are putting words in my mouth. Moving en-masse to another platform is a fantasy. Also, business fuels this community - artisans and makers are only succesful insofar as they can bring their goods to market. They should be able to make a living working at their art. However, allowing ambitious distributors and middle-men to literally own the medium of communication is not a good idea.

The fact that we let this happen is just an indicator, for me personally, that I'm not sure geekhack is going to be as relevant to me going forward as it once was. I'm not saying the same may be true for you.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm inferring - correctly, I believe. Might be wrong, and as said I'm not saying you're wrong with your reasoning, I'm just saying I disagree with most of what you've posted and the way you've worded the majority of it. You say stuff like "They aren't interested in how you make refinements to Korean customs or how best to mix the colors for your artisanal resin" which can read as implying iMav somehow did have those interests at heart for the past 8+ years? If that's not what you mean, and you instead mean to use it as an allegory to illustrate that you believe Massdrop has ulterior motives which will eventually creep into the Korean custom refinement and resin mixing markets, then I understand the sentiment and disagree once again.

I absolutely concur with the latter part of that statement there though, relevancy is down to each one of us and the only reason I believe I'm "right" and you're "wrong" in a lot of ways is because from a business perspective it is imperative that Massdrop treat lightly and stick to their word because as said earlier by others as well as myself, with hobbies/communities like the keyboard one the last thing you wanna do is piss people off. They can be in the green doing nothing, I think it stands to reason they won't risk being in the red just to shove mountaineering socks and headphones down your mouth or taking fees from community ran GBs to make 5 extra grand a month.
Title: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:05:12
Honestly most of the hardcore artisan and manufacturing community has already splintered off and moved to other platforms where they can focus on their specific geekery in more depth.

I'm just waiting for Norbauer to start his own community and then I'll literally have no more reason to use Geekhack at all.

I think you grossly underestimate how hard it is to actually get a meaningful amount of people to leave just because you feel it is warranted to leave or that it's the right move. There are a ton of users (I'd wager the vast majority) that really don't care who owns the website, who had (and still don't) no idea who iMav even is, who have no idea who the mods are, etc. It's really hard to get people to take action, people enjoy being comfortable even if alternatives out there are thousandfold "better" - especially when in the eyes of many, there isn't even a problem to deal with yet. It's the whole prepper/survivalist paradox. Is the world gonna end and should you be ready for it? Maybe.

I think you underestimate the the amount of value that the "1%" in this forum bring to the table.
99% of the people might not care who owns the site, but they also don't create much value (OC).


Does anyone remember LivingWithStyle forums from the early 2000s?
Just about 10 years ago, LWS was sold and basically all of the sub-forums splintered off into their own sites. Some of them still owned by the new company that bought LWS and some cut ties and we're built from the ground up as replacements for the respective sub-forums. It didn't matter who owned the new forums, just about every single one of them failed. The only one I know of still up is casualdiscourse.com but it's functionally dead, no one uses it.

Problem was exactly what you think makes this not a problem.
99% of the users didn't care who was running it and went where the site told them to.
1% of users that created content, didn't jive well with the new owners and went elsewhere (reddit was just a baby at this time, most migrated here).

As a result, the forums with members had a lack of content, and the forums with content had a lack of users.
Everyone folded.

I was part-owner of one of the more popular sub-forums, and we decided to build a new forum without the help of the buying group. We lasted a few years, but honestly we ended up doing the same thing as iMav here, selling it off to the highest bidder after treading water for 4-5 years. (a forum was worth a lot less back then, even with more than 5x the daily pageviews being reported for GH)

You’re assuming all the people against the decision are also the same people creating the content. All of the big name creators I’ve seen so far have been in support of the decision. So the 1% in our scenario are just consumers as I’m seeing— making them not very relevant to the entirety of the forum and its longevity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: lemur on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:07:12
Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.

confirmed: massdrop basically raytheon.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: manitoid on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:17:11

You’re assuming all the people against the decision are also the same people creating the content. All of the big name creators I’ve seen so far have been in support of the decision. So the 1% in our scenario are just consumers as I’m seeing— making them not very relevant to the entirety of the forum and its longevity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're right, I didn't cross-reference this. I also don't think it's fair to guess at what will happen with the user-base for at least another month.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:21:09
Q2: Will my @geekhack.org email address continue to work and redirect or will I have to contact someone about that?

I have this same question :)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:30:03
massdrop.com now owns all of your posts on this forum and every single private message you have ever sent or received on this platform.

further, this means they can resell them at will in whole or in part to anyone or anything. you may have noticed that they have also currently locked you out of your user control panel.

have fun!

i still have full access to my user control panel

i think it was just you who got locked out, and not by MD

but i can't confirm that

then again im in the testing usergroup so i might have been spared

but ming, you gotta chill out with the doomsaying, the forum was fine after you left, it'll be fine now

talk to me in 6 months and if i'm wrong i'll be happy to admit it

I'll try to be optimistic.
But I'll also try to learn Korean.

me for the last 2 years tbh
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: OracleKev on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:40:30
I just got back from KeyCon where I enjoyed some of the most excellent fellowship and hard-core geekery I've ever had the pleasure to enjoy in my life, and I was actually just musing to myself how fortunate I felt to have been a part of such a great community of people for so many years. Keyboards have become a huge part of my life since that day back in 2013 when I first discovered GeekHack and stayed up for 48 hours straight learning everything I could about Cherry switches. To me, GeekHack isn't the keys to the server that the forum runs on; it's the sum total interactions of the amazing, kind, generous people who have made this place what it has been for so long, many of whom have become some of my dearest friends. So, I have to confess: set against that otherwise happy mood and context, this news arrived to me with a considerable amount of heartbreak.

I frankly didn't even realize GeekHack had an "owner" until yesterday. I had always assumed that it was simply run by a collective of sort of moderator-trustees with the primary aim of serving the community. It never occurred to me that in all my years of interactions on the site, sharing and mutual learning, creating and documenting projects, and more recently organizing group buys for people who want the same stuff I do, that I was actually just cultivating a cash asset for someone I'd never heard of—something that could be bundled up, packaged, and sold to the highest bidder. So, when it comes to my feelings on the matter, the particular identity of that high-bidder isn't really material. It's the fact that there was ever bidding in the first place.

For whatever it's worth, though, while MassDrop may not be the worst buyer imaginable, comparing it against an anonymous hostile Chinese takeover is kind of maybe a low bar. And I think this awesome community is worthy of a very high bar indeed. My experiences as a customer and sometime business partner of MassDrop have been decidedly mixed. Without digressing too much into those experiences, one thing I think that is pretty safe to assert: when it comes to creating a friendly, positive, community-spirited social atmosphere online, MassDrop discussion treads are probably not the greatest portfolio piece for that company as a custodian of online community spirit.

Also, in my experience, it's not possible within most corporate cultures to justify getting into a bidding war and paying top dollar for an asset unless you have very specific plans to monetize it and get some kind of return on that investment. I don't know what MassDrop's plans are for that monetization, but even if they claimed they didn't have any (which they haven't quite gone so far as to do at this point), I'm not sure that would be terribly credible. I'm not looking forward to seeing what the roll-out of those plans looks like, which would surely be timed to emerge well after this controversy dies down. The language of the announcement appears carefully worded to leave just the right openings for this kind of strategic long game. I'm not ascribing malice here; I'm just trying to be realistic.

Obviously, I don't object to commercial activity in this community. I've sort of fallen into that myself, and it's a lot of fun. The whole premise is being obsessed with particular physical objects, and a necessary part of the premise of making stuff is money or goods changing hands. I've also been delighted to be able to buy things from other members of the community for years, whether professional vendors or not. Commerce is one thing; community ownership is something else entirely.

As far as I'm concerned, we the people of GeekHack who have built is content, its traffic, and its culture over these many years are its true owners. (Having watched it all unfold, I can say with some confidence that GeekHack made MassDrop viable, not the other way around.) Despite the bad forum software, eye-ball searing color scheme, and logistical annoyances, I've persisted here in doing projects at GeekHack because of my nostalgic attachment to the site and my deep affection for my fellow members of its community. My participation here has always been about furthering that community, and that's what I thought I was doing all along.

I'm just not sure how enthusiastic I am to continue participating here merely to build further cash-value for the VCs backing MassDrop, rather than being able to think about it as building value for a shared community that can control it own destiny. Without the community-oriented mission and spirit, this is just a really ugly website.

Perhaps American Independence Day is an appropriate day for this revelation. For those of us who have the kind of sentimental attachment to this community that I have described—or at least what we thought this community was—maybe it's time for us to think about rallying elsewhere. Wouldn't it be kind of be an amusing Oedipal irony if it turned out that MassDrop grossly overpaid for GeekHack as asset, the acquisition of which precipitated its own collapse?

Thanks for putting in to words a lot of what I’ve been thinking this morning after reading this forum. I feel like the past two days have been somewhat like hearing your best friend was dying, finding out that someone could possibly donate an organ to save him, and then hearing that the donated organ was a brain transplant.

Both well said, after roller-coasting through disheartening low points, this outcome has warmer feel.
But it doesn't change the fact that GH is now in the hands of very savvy business people who has mixed track record.
This community should stay vigilant, so commercialism and community land in the right balance.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:41:55
it's highly possible i locked myself out of a whole bunch of stuff when i handed over the keys years ago. i had to make a bunch of changes to my account and then revoke my privs to change accounts so who knows. i haven't logged in in years so i wouldn't have noticed.

anyway, i'm way past my cycle limit on this place.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:47:05
it's highly possible i locked myself out of a whole bunch of stuff when i handed over the keys years ago. i had to make a bunch of changes to my account and then revoke my privs to change accounts so who knows. i haven't logged in in years so i wouldn't have noticed.

anyway, i'm way past my cycle limit on this place.

it says "no marketplace access" above your avatar so that may be related
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:10:56
Q: What was the final sale price? I missed it if it was listed, and after so many numbers were thrown around, and so many members feel as though their community was having a price put on it I would like to know what our community is worth to MD and what it ended up being worth to iMav. I think a little transparency into the business of the sale would go a long way to establishing trust as a new owner with the community MD now owns, and showing their hand a little bit would be a good gesture of faith. Unless it was already stated somewhere and I just missed it, I tried to skin through the thread and get caught up after being away from a day but a lot has happend since yesterday morning.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: shower_king on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:17:41
The same here. Even not best outcome, it could be a better choice in comparison with buying by some not so professional guys
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:27:24
Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.

confirmed: massdrop basically raytheon.

and Raytheon is badass.  :p
Proof:
(https://i.imgur.com/kMfkKzk.jpg)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Hamel on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:32:12
Now I feel rather relieved.

나의 SM-G950N 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:32:35
Q: What was the final sale price? I missed it if it was listed, and after so many numbers were thrown around, and so many members feel as though their community was having a price put on it I would like to know what our community is worth to MD and what it ended up being worth to iMav. I think a little transparency into the business of the sale would go a long way to establishing trust as a new owner with the community MD now owns, and showing their hand a little bit would be a good gesture of faith. Unless it was already stated somewhere and I just missed it, I tried to skin through the thread and get caught up after being away from a day but a lot has happend since yesterday morning.

I don't think having a sale price will help with anything. I think transparency around the process of the sale is good and it has been alluded to in the OP. I don't think iMav will want to return after the level of hate he got, and if we get a figure, it will just turn into "He sold out his 10 year old baby for just $60k? What a ****ing sellout!" Replace the figure for literally any other number and people will still complain because god forbid the person who has been hosting this website for all of us for literally ever has decided to get something back for all his work.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: romevi on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:44:13
Plus, is a dollar figure even within our right to know? I think that crosses the line of transparency and into privacy.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:45:36
I don't think having a sale price will help with anything. I think transparency around the process of the sale is good and it has been alluded to in the OP. I don't think iMav will want to return after the level of hate he got, and if we get a figure, it will just turn into "He sold out his 10 year old baby for just $60k? What a ****ing sellout!" Replace the figure for literally any other number and people will still complain because god forbid the person who has been hosting this website for all of us for literally ever has decided to get something back for all his work.

Yeah, that's fair. I have always been in the 'get as much money as you can for it camp'. But I would like to know the final figure.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: grizzly_teddy on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:46:00
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:48:23
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

If MassDrop has one thing going for it, it is it's aesthetic.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:52:52
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

If MassDrop has one thing going for it, it is it's aesthetic.

I always found it hard to see who’s replying to who in MD discussion— although it rarely mattered as the discussion there isn’t very useful. Although the rest of the site does look great! I’ll be excited to see a makeover but I still like some functions of the current GH with how some things work like an old school forum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 04 July 2018, 23:01:23
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

This makes very little sense to me. What exactly is hard to read? Threads are organised by the latest interaction, posts are chronologically displayed and the quote system works as it should. Maybe I'm just old but if there's anything geekhack has always had going for it "aesthetically" speaking, it's gotta be format. MD's discussion boards are much less intuitive, as are Reddit and other newer "discussion boards".
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Kilgarah on Wed, 04 July 2018, 23:02:52
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

This makes very little sense to me. What exactly is hard to read? Threads are organised by the latest interaction, posts are chronologically displayed and the quote system works as it should. Maybe I'm just old but if there's anything geekhack has always had going for it "aesthetically" speaking, it's gotta be format. MD's discussion boards are much less intuitive, as are Reddit and other newer "discussion boards".
I could be wrong, but I think what that guy is talking about is the GUI and colors and stuff, not the actual way the forum is laid out.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 23:05:54
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

This makes very little sense to me. What exactly is hard to read? Threads are organised by the latest interaction, posts are chronologically displayed and the quote system works as it should. Maybe I'm just old but if there's anything geekhack has always had going for it "aesthetically" speaking, it's gotta be format. MD's discussion boards are much less intuitive, as are Reddit and other newer "discussion boards".
I could be wrong, but I think what that guy is talking about is the GUI and colors and stuff, not the actual way the forum is laid out.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

That makes sense! I guess I just quickly assumed a big rework.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: nmur on Wed, 04 July 2018, 23:11:22
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

you can theme it

https://userstyles.org/styles/102950/geekhack-2-0-white-by-frenir
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: caligo on Wed, 04 July 2018, 23:22:30
Even if it's a better outcome than a data-mining company buying the forum, it's still highly problematic as it creates a huge potential for conflicts of interest. Even if MD doesn't get directly involved in moderation etc. of topics related to their products and services, there will most likely still be a change in the environment. Posts attacking MD will also be seen as indirect attacks on the GH community by some users; there will be loads of 'don't bite the hand that feeds you' posts; going with MD for GBs will be the default choice; and so on. There doesn't need to be some evil master-plan at work for this to happen, it's just the way the world goes – change the incentive structure, and people's behaviour will change.

Some of the projects discussed on GH will inevitably compete with what MD does. Some of the discussions  will concern MD's business practices, or the fallout of specific drops that didn't go so well. If I was part of an effort to design a new switch type or some other technical endeavour, I would probably not want to discuss the nitty gritty details of it on a MD-owned forum for fear of them making off with the design. And if a GH discussion on a botched MD drop starts trending on Google, does anyone honestly think MD will not get involved?

MD has invested in the site for a reason. Things will inevitably change in a way that benefits MD. Some of these changes will most likely benefit GH users, as getting stuff produced is a big part of this hobby. But assuming MD bought GH for altruistic reasons and will maintain status quo is just naïve.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: PhantomTaco on Wed, 04 July 2018, 23:46:27
Couple of thoughts from someone that has lurked for a long time:

I still don't get MassDrop's angle. The verbage is what tips me off most though:

"We're not making any immediate changes. We're not making GH an advertising platform."

"That said, GH won't remain the same forever, They key from out point of view is to support that growth"

Now no one in their right mind should expect MD to be altruistic and have done this out of their respect for the community simply because that doesn't make sense. One could make the argument that they're trying to build goodwill out of a perceived loss of goodwill they've accumulated from drops that have been bungled in the past. The reality is, though, that doesn't really pay the bills for them and their platform is doing really well in terms of overall sales numbers regardless of people's opinions.

The particular verbage that bugs me is claiming to make no immediate changes, but also saying it won't stay the same forever. I think it's pretty important for Massdrop to be forthcoming and state exactly what views they have for the future of Geekhack. I'll be the first to gladly admit I'm one of the heavily skeptical people, and a lot of my concerns were well voiced by Ryan Norbauer in his post. That being said, if Will@MD or another Massdrop representative were to be honest and tell us what they really see as the future for this site, it would do a lot to either confirm or alleviate my concerns. Personally, I think there is a monetization plan in place for acquiring GH, I just don't know what it is. It may be something like taking a percentage of sales from groupbuys run on GH or eventually folding in the entire IC/GB forums into Massdrop itself to create a more unified platform. Who knows? None of us can really comment because the reality is that Massdrop's official announcement has left everything intentionally vague. Hell, it might be as simple as "they haven't figured it out themselves yet" and that's fine, but at least communicate that out explicitly.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: manitoid on Thu, 05 July 2018, 00:00:50
Some of the projects discussed on GH will inevitably compete with what MD does. Some of the discussions  will concern MD's business practices, or the fallout of specific drops that didn't go so well. If I was part of an effort to design a new switch type or some other technical endeavour, I would probably not want to discuss the nitty gritty details of it on a MD-owned forum for fear of them making off with the design. And if a GH discussion on a botched MD drop starts trending on Google, does anyone honestly think MD will not get involved?

Regardless of what MD actually does (and regardless of if the SMF TOS would hold up in court), I think everyone should be aware that by signing up for the site, GH/MD basically owns all of your forum posts, and you have waived any legal rights you had.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Thu, 05 July 2018, 00:07:28
Regardless of what MD actually does (and regardless of if the SMF TOS would hold up in court), I think everyone should be aware that by signing up for the site, GH/MD basically owns all of your forum posts, and you have waived any legal rights you had.

This is wrong.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: manitoid on Thu, 05 July 2018, 00:09:53
Regardless of what MD actually does (and regardless of if the SMF TOS would hold up in court), I think everyone should be aware that by signing up for the site, GH/MD basically owns all of your forum posts, and you have waived any legal rights you had.

This is wrong.

Untested in court, but go ahead and try it.

Quote
Furthermore, you agree to indemnify and hold harmless the owners of this forum, any related websites to this forum, its staff, and its subsidiaries
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Kilgarah on Thu, 05 July 2018, 00:19:28
Regardless of what MD actually does (and regardless of if the SMF TOS would hold up in court), I think everyone should be aware that by signing up for the site, GH/MD basically owns all of your forum posts, and you have waived any legal rights you had.

This is wrong.
Last line of the GH TOS says that they own the copyright to any forum posts.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: caligo on Thu, 05 July 2018, 00:25:08
Regardless of what MD actually does (and regardless of if the SMF TOS would hold up in court), I think everyone should be aware that by signing up for the site, GH/MD basically owns all of your forum posts, and you have waived any legal rights you had.

This is wrong.

Well, not according to the TOS (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39249.0) one agrees to when creating an account:

Quote
All messages posted on the GeekHack Forums become the copyrighted property of GeekHack.org. 

In other words, the entity that owns GH also holds the copyright to everything posted here. I'm no copyright attorney, so I have no idea if this would hold up in court. But from the looks of it, the contents of all posts here are now the property of MD. It would be awesome if someone more well versed in law than me could describe the ramifications of this. But I guess it means that something like migrating old posts to a new forum, which is something people have talked about, would not be possible
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: manitoid on Thu, 05 July 2018, 00:26:20
Regardless of what MD actually does (and regardless of if the SMF TOS would hold up in court), I think everyone should be aware that by signing up for the site, GH/MD basically owns all of your forum posts, and you have waived any legal rights you had.

This is wrong.
Last line of the GH TOS says that they own the copyright to any forum posts.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

Interestingly, that line is missing from the terms you agree to when you actually register, so I don't know if any of those terms from that post would even legally apply if not also included in the terms you are forced to read when you register.

Even still, unless you already hold copyright to it or expressly put it in the public domain in your post, there's at least a 50/50 chance the court will rule in the site owners favor, regardless of the fact you gave up any legal rights against the owner of the forum as part of the TOS.



Well, not according to the TOS (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39249.0) one agrees to when creating an account:


Unless I'm missing something this link is not referenced when signing up, and the terms displayed when you do sign up are not the same as in this post.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: caligo on Thu, 05 July 2018, 00:32:12
I guess a decent first step for the new overlords owners could be to
I think that would alleviate some of the concerns voiced.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 05 July 2018, 00:46:09
it's still highly problematic as it creates a huge potential for conflicts of interest. Even if MD doesn't get directly involved in moderation etc. of topics related to their products and services, there will most likely still be a change in the environment. Posts attacking MD will also be seen as indirect attacks on the GH community by some users; there will be loads of 'don't bite the hand that feeds you' posts; going with MD for GBs will be the default choice; and so on. There doesn't need to be some evil master-plan at work for this to happen, it's just the way the world goes – change the incentive structure, and people's behaviour will change.
good point. people were saying the very same thing when the possibility of Zeal acquiring the site was near certain, but with MD in the picture now the situation has become so much more delicate, yet i don't see the same posters speaking up about it.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Wetherbee on Thu, 05 July 2018, 00:51:00
If I'm running a groupbuy now I'm supposed to use my competitor's forum to post and communicate my groupbuy. What an absolute boon for Massdrop to get that kind of market control. Whatever price they paid was likely a bargain.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: T0mb3ry on Thu, 05 July 2018, 01:14:07

Well, not according to the TOS (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39249.0) one agrees to when creating an account:


An author of what ever creation holds always the Copyright for its creation automatically. This is not inventable by any rules in most western countries. The rights GH owner is holding is only for archiving the published information here not the subject (cration). But anyway this is not more a matter since new instroduced EU regulations about private data. GH must implement nuke my data function in order to meet EU regulations or the site must be made inaccessable for EU.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 05 July 2018, 01:19:09
If I'm running a groupbuy now I'm supposed to use my competitor's forum to post and communicate my groupbuy. What an absolute boon for Massdrop to get that kind of market control. Whatever price they paid was likely a bargain.

In the nicest way possible, are you dense? You keep repeating the same thing over and over again just in a different way.

Do you really think that MD are going to try and force people to use their site for group buys? 20 spot Korean custom builds on Massdrop from a guy nobody has ever heard of? Wouldn't get past a MD style interest check. Would they charge people for running a GB on their new non MD forum? People would just go to reddit or deskthority to run free GBs.

All these kind of buys are the essence of geekhack. MD know this and don't want to change the foundations of the forum, especially not at the start. All the best Group Buys start on geekhack and they know that.

I think this whole line of "Massdrop is going to destroy any and all group buys not on Massdrop" is utterly moronic.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: manitoid on Thu, 05 July 2018, 01:20:36
But anyway this is not more a matter since new instroduced EU regulations about private data. GH must implement nuke my data function in order to meet EU regulations or the site must be made inaccessable for EU.

This applies to identifying personal data only and not your general forum posts.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: rioc on Thu, 05 July 2018, 01:22:36
I'm starting to think GH might become a better place with all the ignorant folk just leaving... it's starting to get on my nerves
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: caligo on Thu, 05 July 2018, 01:34:30

Well, not according to the TOS (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39249.0) one agrees to when creating an account:


An author of what ever creation holds always the Copyright for its creation automatically. This is not inventable by any rules in most western countries. The rights GH owner is holding is only for archiving the published information here not the subject (cration). But anyway this is not more a matter since new instroduced EU regulations about private data. GH must implement nuke my data function in order to meet EU regulations or the site must be made inaccessable for EU.

This is simply not true. For example, a journalist typically doesn't retain the copyright to something published by a newspaper. In general, something created under a work-for-hire contract (or whatever the equivalent is in that specific country) is the intellectual property of the company that paid for the work, not the original creator. That is how things are typically done in game development, for example – the composer does not own the copyright to the soundtrack, the 3d modeller does not own the assets used in the game, and so on.

When it comes to forum posts, I don't think there's any good precedent – at least not one that I can find doing a quick Google search. In most countries, a piece of text has to have some artistic merit to be copyrightable. People don't really post short stories and essays on GH. But what about a long discussion in its entirety? It's not entirely clear what that would count as.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Wetherbee on Thu, 05 July 2018, 01:59:19
I think this whole line of "Massdrop is going to destroy any and all group buys not on Massdrop" is utterly moronic.

:confused: I honestly can't fathom how you don't see the conflict of interest and yet you are so passionate about it that you feel the need to call me a moron. Another day on geekhack I guess.

Massdrop doesn't have to stop any group buys, and nor would it be in their interest to do so. Market influence that comes with controlling the medium is much more valuable.


Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: HotRoderX on Thu, 05 July 2018, 02:58:26
I am seeing a trend its almost the same people saying the same insane crap over and over. I mean there been some really outspoken well put arguments against massdrop. I totally get were some people are coming from. At this point if you don't like Geekhack or Massdrop. Are any combination of the two leave. I mean its brutal its blunt but its the bottom line. Bickering calling out Massdrop etc etc. Just sounds like you want the website to explode. One of those I didn't get my way so going to break all the toys so no one has toys.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: manitoid on Thu, 05 July 2018, 03:08:42
I am seeing a trend its almost the same people saying the same insane crap over and over. I mean there been some really outspoken well put arguments against massdrop. I totally get were some people are coming from. At this point if you don't like Geekhack or Massdrop. Are any combination of the two leave. I mean its brutal its blunt but its the bottom line. Bickering calling out Massdrop etc etc. Just sounds like you want the website to explode. One of those I didn't get my way so going to break all the toys so no one has toys.

I don't know who you are calling out, but I just want to say I am not in favor of a mass migration.

I just think, if a vendor is going to own this while also claiming they are not going to change the day-to-day operation, there need to be some written safeguards in place. The existing TOS situation is a mess, this is a good opportunity to rewrite while including terms that protect the community.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: ygor on Thu, 05 July 2018, 03:10:23
Where that Nuke Button at, fam.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: portbaron on Thu, 05 July 2018, 03:11:27
I have no problem with this. Interested to see where it goes from here.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: rioc on Thu, 05 July 2018, 03:12:21
I am seeing a trend its almost the same people saying the same insane crap over and over. I mean there been some really outspoken well put arguments against massdrop. I totally get were some people are coming from. At this point if you don't like Geekhack or Massdrop. Are any combination of the two leave. I mean its brutal its blunt but its the bottom line. Bickering calling out Massdrop etc etc. Just sounds like you want the website to explode. One of those I didn't get my way so going to break all the toys so no one has toys.


I haven't seen any well put arguments yet or points speaking against MD (but I'm also not in the mood of searching for them)... I've had nothing but good experiences with them and have been in a lot of their GBs. (Even their customer service is really good, the few times I had to use it)
Would you mind pointing me in the direction of the arguments you're speaking of?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: jihadu on Thu, 05 July 2018, 03:21:23
TBH HotRoderX has always been a super supporter of MD, going on borderline shilling at times.

IMO wait and see. Would have preferred Zeal though, but in the end it's up to iMav and I can't fault him for selling out.

A nuke option for accounts would be appreciated though.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 05 July 2018, 03:55:22
eh

rip private group buys
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: pon10 on Thu, 05 July 2018, 05:18:35
Insane..

@massdrop

1. Systems must be designed with data privacy requirements in mind.

2. Businesses must provide data subjects with access to their own data in an easily transferable format.

3. Data subjects can ask to have all their personal data erased, and businesses must comply.


Please have Article 17 of GDPR Available on Geekhack.org ASAP. :thumb:



 
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: schoolbus on Thu, 05 July 2018, 07:07:02
I'm starting to think GH might become a better place with all the ignorant folk just leaving... it's starting to get on my nerves

Agreed, if this purges out the crazies then all the better.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 05 July 2018, 07:28:55
Please have Article 17 of GDPR Available on Geekhack.org ASAP. :thumb:
Everything is on your profile page other than email address, IP addresses you used to access the site and your password.

Analytics info is stored and collected by Google, not GH, you need to talk to Google for that data. Keep in mind, that data is anonymized before site owners can see it so GH would have none of your personal info.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: amnesia0287 on Thu, 05 July 2018, 07:33:37
Please have Article 17 of GDPR Available on Geekhack.org ASAP. :thumb:
Everything is on your profile page other than email address, IP addresses you used to access the site and your password.

Analytics info is stored and collected by Google, not GH, you need to talk to Google for that data. Keep in mind, that data is anonymized before site owners can see it so GH would have none of your personal info.

Article 17 is the right to erasure. And while I think it is an overreaction to delete a profile right now, that really has nothing to do with being GDPR compliant.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Coreda on Thu, 05 July 2018, 07:41:08
some would argue there’s garbage stuff about GH

Shots fired, tp.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Glod on Thu, 05 July 2018, 08:02:14
The biggest problem with geekhack and data privacy in general (put aside GDPR) is that people over the last decade, especially group buys and artisans, have treated data pretty sloppy. Information such as addresses and paypal info passed from person to person via full text instead of forms, links to google docs that contain private information get passed around organizers. One organizer could have passed private information to another organizer and a simple purge of account would not find that information. If you delete someone's account, profile, posts, PMs, and the replys to those PMs that doesn't mean you have been erased; ripster is a big example of this, 6 years later there is tons of posts and PMs he made that are preserved due to a quote or reply--as much as they tried to erase him.

To address another thing talked about here, the handling of private messages and mining that information. There is no guarantee they won't do it because that data is readily available to them, everyone has to live with that reality due to TOS, BUT--a big BUT--many can argue that private messages, though the property of the forum owner, are designated privileged--meaning they can't leave the owner and moderators unless there was an investigation or eDiscovery request. This happens all the time with emails sent inside a company; those times when a deemed-privileged email gets forwarded horizontally instead of vertically is a violation of privacy. If you forward an email about a complaint about Barbara to your boss and up the chain, that is fine--because they have the right to get your email anyways; but if you email chuck in accounting about that thing about Barbara you just violated her privacy. I deal with this all the time.

Honestly a priority for Massdrop is to fix these privacy issues, allow the right to be deleted, and ban the distribution of private information through fulltext post and PMs; undoubtedly, before any of the world domination everyone is freaking out about--that part comes later.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: avid on Thu, 05 July 2018, 08:06:46
Super excited to find out Massdrop bought it, especially seeing the other speculants (ad-agency?).

I believe MD is the most important vendor in the community with regards to running various keysets.
Congratulations on the purchase Will and i'm looking forward to see what the future brings.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Signature on Thu, 05 July 2018, 08:09:01
Just really disappointed in iMav

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 05 July 2018, 09:12:12
Whaaaaaaaat the **** has happened
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: romevi on Thu, 05 July 2018, 09:34:50
Whaaaaaaaat the **** has happened

iMav sold geekhack to Massdrop.

There; now you're caught up.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Thu, 05 July 2018, 09:35:04
good point. people were saying the very same thing when the possibility of Zeal acquiring the site was near certain, but with MD in the picture now the situation has become so much more delicate, yet i don't see the same posters speaking up about it.

Has it really become more delicate, though? Keep in mind I personally never saw Zeal owning the site as as much of a potential hazard and conflict of interest as others, however, safe to say MD is worth several dozens of millions of dollars whilst one could wager Zeal's business is 50 to 100 times smaller (I'm guesstimating, I might be completely off base here) - what I mean to illustrate by this is that not only does someone like Massdrop stand to gain much less from the passive influence than anyone else would (not just Zeal), but they also stand to lose much more if the community isn't happy with how things turn out.

Regarding the "going with Massdrop as a vendor will now become the norm" comment - I'd say that's unfounded because firstly MD is arguably already the go-to for successful key sets and the limiting factor that disallows people to have them as their first choice every time is that they can/are only willing to run roughly one set a month. I've spoken to Yanbo about why this is the case and I firmly believe it won't change, additionally 20-50 slot GBs that we see for customs on GH are unfit for Massdrop for obvious reasons so I see the concern about the shift in "default choice" as a complete non-issue.

Lastly, this is not to say I disagree with the power of suggestion/influence caligo brought up, that's for sure a huge reason why anyone (especially vendors) would've wanted to buy a site like GH.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: ejewell89 on Thu, 05 July 2018, 09:48:59
Whaaaaaaaat the **** has happened

iMav sold geekhack to Massdrop.

There; now you're caught up.

Hi rom.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: romevi on Thu, 05 July 2018, 09:50:04
Whaaaaaaaat the **** has happened

iMav sold geekhack to Massdrop.

There; now you're caught up.

Hi rom.

Hi well.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: ejewell89 on Thu, 05 July 2018, 09:55:50
Whaaaaaaaat the **** has happened

iMav sold geekhack to Massdrop.

There; now you're caught up.

Hi rom.

Hi well.

Hi evi.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Glod on Thu, 05 July 2018, 10:13:18
Whaaaaaaaat the **** has happened

My hope is makers like you decide to stay at geekhack given the circumstances, honestly you are the ones that matter here. Without people actually making ****; geekhack is just drama.

<3
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: rioc on Thu, 05 July 2018, 10:18:28
Whaaaaaaaat the **** has happened

My hope is makers like you decide to stay at geekhack given the circumstances, honestly you are the ones that matter here. Without people actually making ****; geekhack is just drama.

<3


yep, and having people disperse will just mean less turnover on the GBs, since the main part will still stay on gh
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: caligo on Thu, 05 July 2018, 10:22:36
good point. people were saying the very same thing when the possibility of Zeal acquiring the site was near certain, but with MD in the picture now the situation has become so much more delicate, yet i don't see the same posters speaking up about it.

Has it really become more delicate, though? Keep in mind I personally never saw Zeal owning the site as as much of a potential hazard and conflict of interest as others, however, safe to say MD is worth several dozens of millions of dollars whilst one could wager Zeal's business is 50 to 100 times smaller (I'm guesstimating, I might be completely off base here) - what I mean to illustrate by this is that not only does someone like Massdrop stand to gain much less from the passive influence than anyone else would (not just Zeal), but they also stand to lose much more if the community isn't happy with how things turn out.

Regarding the "going with Massdrop as a vendor will now become the norm" comment - I'd say that's unfounded because firstly MD is arguably already the go-to for successful key sets and the limiting factor that disallows people to have them as their first choice every time is that they can/are only willing to run roughly one set a month. I've spoken to Yanbo about why this is the case and I firmly believe it won't change, additionally 20-50 slot GBs that we see for customs on GH are unfit for Massdrop for obvious reasons so I see the concern about the shift in "default choice" as a complete non-issue.

Lastly, this is not to say I disagree with the power of suggestion/influence caligo brought up, that's for sure a huge reason why anyone (especially vendors) would've wanted to buy a site like GH.

In the end, I think changes will be quite subtle. MD is indeed the de-facto norm for larger GBs – having MD be more integrated with the site will probably benefit those GH projects that are mainstream enough to be picked up by them. However, there is also a risk of smaller GBs being given less priority. If I was MD, I'd probably give select set designers and projects a push by making them more visible at the expense of smaller ventures. And I'd surely make MD drops more visible than GBs run by other vendors. Seeing as MD pushes for exclusivity and manifactured scarcity, it also makes sense to try and get as many exclusivity deals as possible, giving more push to projects that agree to such terms. This is all just basic capitalism, I really woldn't fault them for going down that route.

For the majority of users, the end result will probably be somewhat smoother GBs and not much else. I mostly worry about the small-scale stuff, which will probably be a second-class citizen in the new MD-run GH of the future. I also doubt MD will maintain a hands-off approach if a thread about some botched drop starts trending, and I highly doubt all GBs will be treated alike. If nothing else, there will always be a sense that stuff like this might be happening. And that's probably neough to change the atmosphere here.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: rioc on Thu, 05 July 2018, 10:27:27
I don't know why I got this feeling, but I think this oddly fits in here right now:
the end result being ppl leaving will end back here again
Title: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dimo on Thu, 05 July 2018, 10:28:43
Why are we still going back and forth?

These same exact arguments from the last 8 hours from new people joining the thread is the exact same **** from 16 hours ago with a different set of people. We already have decent grounds on either side and I haven’t seen one new perspective on either argument.

It also just looks like a huge influx of r/hailcorporate members rushed to the scenes right when they heard a big company taking over a smaller one— and not reading past Will’s first sentence in his post.

Maybe wait til actual changes are made then people can actually start complaining without their tinfoil hats on?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: lemur on Thu, 05 July 2018, 11:12:01
question: at what point can the GB threads be organized so that it isnt a jumbled mess? right now there is no easy way to sort through this..

i want to be able to know:

which group buys are currently open for purchasing
which group buys are closed for purchashing, but waiting for products to arrive
which group buys are closed for purchasing and products have been shipped
etc..

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: a_ak57 on Thu, 05 July 2018, 11:30:17
All I know is that Massdrop better leave the forum themes alone. Wouldn't be GH if there was more than just 4 ugly choices available.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: avid on Thu, 05 July 2018, 11:48:33
One rule change i (and many others) would like to see.
-IC for keysets being ran by massdrop and others vendors are today locked in the IC section and moved to vendor subforum. This is absolutely awful since the vendor forums are basically dead and thus they get minimal exposure.
So i would like to see:
1. All IC threads are in the IC section (no matter where you intend to run it)
2. When GBs start, move the thread to the "GB" subforum instead of keeping it in the vendor subforum.

As it is today, having a vendor subforum is a disadvantage since all your IC/GB gets forced into forums no one visits.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: user 18 on Thu, 05 July 2018, 12:23:01
One rule change i (and many others) would like to see.
-IC for keysets being ran by massdrop and others vendors are today locked in the IC section and moved to vendor subforum. This is absolutely awful since the vendor forums are basically dead and thus they get minimal exposure.
So i would like to see:
1. All IC threads are in the IC section (no matter where you intend to run it)
2. When GBs start, move the thread to the "GB" subforum instead of keeping it in the vendor subforum.

As it is today, having a vendor subforum is a disadvantage since all your IC/GB gets forced into forums no one visits.

This has not been the rule for quite some time.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: acantha on Thu, 05 July 2018, 21:01:22
eh

rip private group buys

my suspicion is that its not in massdrop's interests to kill private group buys. or at least not all of them. if they stomp them out here, they'll just go to deskthority or /r/mk or somewhere else. its not like there aren't other venues. presumably the whole reason they bought the site is because this is a community hub where a lot of the latest and greatest stuff in the mechanical keyboard "industry" starts and they want to have their fingers in those pies. if they drive that activity away, that ruins the investment. my guess is they find a way to gently direct the groupbuys that will fit best in their system upstream into massdrop, and leave the smaller ones that wouldn't "drop" where they are.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 05 July 2018, 21:12:13
eh

rip private group buys

impossible to kill things like LZ-SK and MEME

friend group GBs will always happen
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Bigpock on Thu, 05 July 2018, 22:24:58
crazy... imav said 15k takes it now and then backed out on his deal. Hard to pass up more money I guess. Zeal even offered 30k final...

Massdelay buys site. Gg....
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: digi on Thu, 05 July 2018, 22:26:44
crazy... imav said 15k takes it now and then backed out on his deal. Hard to pass up more money I guess. Zeal even offered 30k final...

Massdelay buys site. Gg....

Whats the difference between Zeal and Massdrop?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Bigpock on Thu, 05 July 2018, 22:28:31
who knows im just here to complain, ive been afk since i moved into other money pit hobbies like drinking expensive beer
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: gt1989 on Thu, 05 July 2018, 22:28:52
crazy... imav said 15k takes it now and then backed out on his deal. Hard to pass up more money I guess. Zeal even offered 30k final...

Massdelay buys site. Gg....

Whats the difference between Zeal and Massdrop?

It doesn't matter much to me, but there was that whole thing with input club that pissed some people off.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: digi on Thu, 05 July 2018, 22:29:12
who knows im just here to complain, ive been afk since i moved into other money pit hobbies like drinking expensive beer

hah, nice. expensive beer is good.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Bigpock on Thu, 05 July 2018, 22:32:34
I guess i just don't care much for massdelay, and yea expensive beer is nice. I pass it through my mouth and yada yada yada in the toilet. Crazy
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: man on Thu, 05 July 2018, 23:36:35
meh who cares

i'm on board 100% :thumb:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: manitoid on Fri, 06 July 2018, 00:01:23
crazy... imav said 15k takes it now and then backed out on his deal. Hard to pass up more money I guess. Zeal even offered 30k final...

Massdelay buys site. Gg....

Whats the difference between Zeal and Massdrop?

2 or 3 zeros probably.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: acantha on Fri, 06 July 2018, 00:14:04
crazy... imav said 15k takes it now and then backed out on his deal. Hard to pass up more money I guess. Zeal even offered 30k final...

Massdelay buys site. Gg....

Whats the difference between Zeal and Massdrop?

It doesn't matter much to me, but there was that whole thing with input club that pissed some people off.

i like halo switches as much as the next person, but i dont think you can reasonably act like they own the blame on how that went down. that whole thing was a ****show. i respect the IC guys a lot, but i think is disingenuous to act like they dont wear some of the fault in how that fell apart.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: davkol on Fri, 06 July 2018, 04:26:12
crazy... imav said 15k takes it now and then backed out on his deal. Hard to pass up more money I guess. Zeal even offered 30k final...

Massdelay buys site. Gg....

Whats the difference between Zeal and Massdrop?

It seems like most people don't realize it or ignore it, but Massdrop _is_ a data company (just like most new companies in the tech business).

It gets treated as a storefront or a platform for selling niche items. Kind of like Amazon, but slower and smaller. But Amazon is a data company too: it became been successful _because_ of the recommendation system based on customer behavior analysis.

Massdrop gets lots of data about customer demand and behavior.

Sounds unlikely? Well, who would have thought a dildo startup (WeVibe) could have been mining users' data? Meanwhile, Massdrop isn't even a 'product' company, they're a marketing business (note: marketing != advertising).
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: rioc on Fri, 06 July 2018, 06:44:04
really getting tired of this whole thing now... several people trying to capitalize on the drama which was only hyped up to drama but isn't actual drama... it's tiring and disappointing and only motivating me to be more active here on gh a bit more now again
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 06 July 2018, 10:34:38
really getting tired of this whole thing now... several people trying to capitalize on the drama which was only hyped up to drama but isn't actual drama... it's tiring and disappointing and only motivating me to be more active here on gh a bit more now again

Agree. It's so silly. I should have guesses some dumb drama would pop off when this thread went over surprisingly smoothly though.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: kemal on Fri, 06 July 2018, 13:36:21
I'll start a "Why I hate Massdrop" thread and see if it gets pinned.  Just kidding.  MD will be under the microscope so any chutzpa will set of a bazillion crap detectors.

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: grizzly_teddy on Fri, 06 July 2018, 14:54:05
I bought an arrows kit from SA Carbon from MD. Turns out it was missing an arrow. I messaged MD via their website, and they did a really great job in getting me out a replacement key. I know it is just one transaction, but I was happy. Enough so that I spent $6k on keysets from MD in the past few months.

Also, to be honest, I find the interface for GH to be atrocious. The threads and topics are organized well - but that is honestly the only thing that makes this better than /r/mk. This kind of forum style is quite old and outdated. I guess what I am saying is that I cannot stand SMF. Another forum I go to also uses SMF and I hate it. However I am not that angry, as I don't know enough to offer an alternative. Maybe SMF can be configured enough for my liking, but I haven't seen it.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Vigrith on Fri, 06 July 2018, 15:23:50
Also, to be honest, I find the interface for GH to be atrocious. The threads and topics are organized well - but that is honestly the only thing that makes this better than /r/mk. This kind of forum style is quite old and outdated. I guess what I am saying is that I cannot stand SMF. Another forum I go to also uses SMF and I hate it. However I am not that angry, as I don't know enough to offer an alternative. Maybe SMF can be configured enough for my liking, but I haven't seen it.

I'm potentially biased because I find Reddit to be atrocious but for what it is, it works well enough. I wouldn't mind a bit of a revamp, but the core has to remain - where else are you going to find a GB thread from 4 years ago that was bumped with relevant information other than here (or potentially on DT, they could do it there too if they wanted)? That kind of approach has to remain even if they touch up the visuals and functionality here and there.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: zslane on Fri, 06 July 2018, 16:01:14
MassDrop has a dedicated portal site to their group buying system, their discussion chains, surveys, and designer spotlight areas. It is called www.massdrop.com. That is the site where they exercise complete administrative and editorial control, and even then, they seriously balk at banning users and other such policing behavior, and only do so after long and dire consideration. There is no need or incentive for MassDrop to exert the same kind of control over GH just because they own it. Will seems to understand that GH is a different beast than massdrop.com and that it essentially "runs itself" with its existing mod staff.

That's why I don't expect anything to change in terms of policy or editorial control. The cynics who fear the "ramifications" and "implications" are certainly free to bury themselves in their own neuroses, but it seems to me far more rational to wait for actual transgressions to occur before wagging a disapproving finger in MassDrop's direction. Everything else is just fearmongering for the sake of stirring up drama.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: davkol on Fri, 06 July 2018, 16:45:46
I bought an arrows kit from SA Carbon from MD. Turns out it was missing an arrow. I messaged MD via their website, and they did a really great job in getting me out a replacement key. I know it is just one transaction, but I was happy. Enough so that I spent $6k on keysets from MD in the past few months.
How is this even relevant to the topic at hand.

You _bought_ a product, the seller messed up but fixed the order, that should be a matter of course (ahem, apparently not for Massdrop).

This is an entirely different relationship though.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Fri, 06 July 2018, 16:54:58
I bought an arrows kit from SA Carbon from MD. Turns out it was missing an arrow. I messaged MD via their website, and they did a really great job in getting me out a replacement key. I know it is just one transaction, but I was happy. Enough so that I spent $6k on keysets from MD in the past few months.
How is this even relevant to the topic at hand.

It's relevant because it shows Madddrops's customer service focused approach to their community, which I can echo is stellar. Which isn't the status quo for many companies, and Massdrop stands out for it. They have always demonstrated a focus on their community, especially in the face of being a platform that can't make everyone happy. I think grizzly_teddy's post's relevance is not only crystal clear, but also important for people to keep in mind with the amount of fear mongering this thread has seen. And especially with negative and antagonistic posts like yours.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: davkol on Fri, 06 July 2018, 17:00:03
Are you going to applaud Massdrop for _not_ committing fraud?
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 06 July 2018, 17:02:37
Are you going to applaud Massdrop for _not_ committing fraud?

...You should be in politics with this kind of statement.  They deal in sensationalizing and dealing with double negatives, and all that non-constructive discourse to win popularity contests and make points, and turn everything inside out.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Fri, 06 July 2018, 17:05:57
Are you going to applaud Massdrop for _not_ committing fraud?

I applaud them for conducting business in a way that is user focused, not shareholder focused. I applaud them for always doing everything in their power to help me have the best experience, and to address any issues that have come up (even those they weren't responsible for) in a way that is in my best interest regardless of the cost to them. I applaud them for continuing to prove to me they are an ethical company that demonstrates good business practice. And I applaud them for stepping up so we don't have to worry about what this community would turn into if it was bought by a faceless revenue focused web-ad company.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: davkol on Fri, 06 July 2018, 17:49:00
You clearly have pretty low standards, if simply adhering to the contract (delivering ordered goods) is enough to earn praise.

Anyway, the thread is about Massdrop running Geekhack, not selling stuff, and so I don't dig into that here. Massdrop has won the Deskthority  *Ping* Award twice: in 2017 (https://deskthority.net/results-f110/the-ping-award-t17873.html) and before that in 2015 (https://deskthority.net/results-f94/the-ping-award-2015-t12370.html). In particular, there's been one issue (https://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/ergodox-massdrop-groupbuy-discussion-t5085-90.html#p86638) closely related to ethics—since the early days of Massdrop.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Fri, 06 July 2018, 17:54:45
You clearly have pretty low standards, if simply adhering to the contract (delivering ordered goods) is enough to earn praise.

Anyway, the thread is about Massdrop running Geekhack, not selling stuff, and so I don't dig into that here.

You aren't really understanding what I'm saying are you? I'm going to try and keep this really concise for you to digest the concept:

Massdrop goes above and beyond just 'delivering ordered goods' by prioritizing their community above all else. This user-focused approach speaks toward them being excellent owners of the geekhack community.

I will even TL:DR this for you if that was too many words, so you don't continue to miss the point:
Massdrop is user-focused. Thus their priority for geekhack is likely going to be geekhack's community.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 06 July 2018, 17:58:19
Anyway, the thread is about Massdrop running Geekhack

Massdrop will run the server and provide tech support assistance.  geekhack will "run" geekhack.  Please read the into post and all the Q&A for more details.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: davkol on Fri, 06 July 2018, 18:04:36
Massdrop goes above and beyond just 'delivering ordered goods' by prioritizing their community above all else. This user-focused approach speaks toward them being excellent owners of the geekhack community.
I could list quite a few cases (be it from the Massdrama site or elsewhere) as counterexamples.

If you pay them for an ErgoDox, they ship you two right sides, you complain and they ship you another right side, that's one thing. But here you don't buy stuff from them… you discuss it, while they (or their business partners) want you to buy stuff.

Anyway, the thread is about Massdrop running Geekhack
Massdrop will run the server and provide tech support assistance.  geekhack will "run" geekhack.  Please read the into post and all the Q&A for more details.
Yes, and there are two main concerns:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Fri, 06 July 2018, 18:13:09
I could list quite a few cases (be it from the Massdrama site or elsewhere) as counterexamples.

If you pay them for an ErgoDox, they ship you two right sides, you complain and they ship you another right side, that's one thing. But here you don't buy stuff from them… you discuss it, while they (or their business partners) want you to buy stuff.

You can't offer a counterexample when I never posed an initial example to be countered.

I was really trying to stress in my posts that I was explaining my experience with them, which has been one of the best I have had as a consumer. I'm sure a lot of people have had bad experiences. I believe more have not. And I don't think anyone believes Massdrop isn't looking to boost their profitability through this acquisition, but I don't think it's going to be through underhanded or questionable means, I don't think they are going to abuse their ownership. Everything they have shown me as a member of their community, and as a consumer of their "product" is that they are a community minded business that is run and operated by enthusiasts and collectors; community members just like us that genuinely care about the communities they are a part of.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 06 July 2018, 18:16:02
Yes, and there are two main concerns:
  • data on Massdrop's server
  • possible bias, due to Massdrop being the breadwinner

Seeing as they are an actual company, you can hold them to a higher standard of managing your data than the individual you knew nothing about for all these years and did not really wonder what he was doing with your data up to a week ago.  Would you rather have an actual legal team look into what needs to go into the website upgrades to make it more or fully compatible with the current data protection rules or not?  We were not going to have that happen until now.

Honestly I understand the various concerns, but all the "what ifs" jumping to some fatalistic conclusions are just the initial panic and fear mongering.  Some individuals are acting like we got taken over by a third world dictatorship who will put every individual (out of thousands of users) under strict surveillance and will use your data against you. 
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: davkol on Fri, 06 July 2018, 18:40:49
You're right that someone's server in the basement (hyperbole) is potentially risky (I mean, I remember the r00tworm too). At the same time, though, the data is directly interesting to Massdrop (market research at the minimum), and do I trust them? I've linked the ToS discussion at Deskthority for a reason.

The other point concerning bias should be discussed in order to set transparent moderation rules (that in my personal experience haven't been in place even beforehand). I've mentioned (either here or at DT) the notorious issues at certain high-profile audio forums, and some people have noted how Massdrop got rid of their "vaping" section (thus, for example, tighter moderation in the off-topic subforum isn't unimaginable).
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 06 July 2018, 18:48:22
You're right that someone's server in the basement (hyperbole) is potentially risky (I mean, I remember the r00tworm too). At the same time, though, the data is directly interesting to Massdrop (market research at the minimum), and do I trust them? I've linked the ToS discussion at Deskthority for a reason.

I would imagine most of the data Massdrop actually wants is already publicly accessible. 

The other point concerning bias should be discussed in order to set transparent moderation rules (that in my personal experience haven't been in place even beforehand). I've mentioned (either here or at DT) the notorious issues at certain high-profile audio forums, and some people have noted how Massdrop got rid of their "vaping" section (thus, for example, tighter moderation in the off-topic subforum isn't unimaginable).

Have you seen this Q&A compilation from this morning?  It explicitly answers this very concern:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96513.0


Q (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96454.msg2633000#msg2633000): Will vendors or individuals who advertise platforms that seek to compete directly with Massdrop in the mechanical keyboard space see any pushback, or will any initiative be allowed here?

A: The geekhack marketplace will remain an independent community-run section where any vendor or individual can post. Massdrop won't interfere in who can and can't obtain vendor status.

. . .

Q (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96454.msg2633000#msg2633000): Will Massdrop agree to yield to the existing administration and moderation team with regards to changes to the forum's structure or rules, or will you reserve the right to change anything at any time if unilaterally deemed necessary?

A: Short answer is yes. Long answer is, there are laws and regulations by which we must abide, that perhaps an independent forum owner would risk ignoring. If some law/regulation, like GDPR (which we’ll be making a longer post about in the weeks ahead) requires we change something about the forum, we have to comply.

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: lemur on Fri, 06 July 2018, 18:55:22
Question: I assume that in some capacity Massdrop uses its experience to facilitate, in some way, small or large, group buys thought up or initiated by people who have never done one before, or with vendors individuals may not know how to deal with. If that assumption is accurate, would Massdrop use that expertise to assist group buy organizers in working with vendors/etc for group buys that are not a good fit for Massdrop, or which users would not want to run on Massdrop?


i.e.  Joe Shmoe wants to run a group buy for *thing that only 30 people want as shown via an Interest check*, Joe has an idea who makes it, but doesn't know where to go from there.

I presume this is what is functionally happening when users on Massdrop use the 'Poll' feature to register interest in products.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: davkol on Fri, 06 July 2018, 19:15:20
I would imagine most of the data Massdrop actually wants is already publicly accessible.
There's a difference between direct access to the database and having to scrap the website (and you can't scrap pms).

The other point concerning bias should be discussed in order to set transparent moderation rules (that in my personal experience haven't been in place even beforehand). I've mentioned (either here or at DT) the notorious issues at certain high-profile audio forums, and some people have noted how Massdrop got rid of their "vaping" section (thus, for example, tighter moderation in the off-topic subforum isn't unimaginable).

Have you seen this Q&A compilation from this morning?  It explicitly answers this very concern:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96513.0
Yes, that's a public announcement for now. Call me cynical, but do you think I believe it? I've seen too many acquisitions to take those seriously.

Besides, it addresses explicit direct action, not individual moderators' bias. I've seen/had posts redacted/removed, because a mod didn't like them for personal reasons, and this adds a new set of similar reasons. There hasn't been a transparent policy up thus far and now there's another reason why it might be an issue.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: schoolbus on Fri, 06 July 2018, 20:32:35
At the end of the day massdrop has far, far more to lose than the geekhack(keyboard) community by buying this website. Those that continue to immaturely stamp their feet and whine on the forums are simply those that don't understand what leverage and or business are.  I love and hate this community because it's homogeneously intermingled with so many that understand this, and many who don't and therefore feel compelled to "die on the sword" of keyboards (lmao) while acting like this is their one chance to make a difference in the world.

It's plastic- and you're buying it, you always have... and don't act like Massdrop is stopping you from doing that.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Glod on Fri, 06 July 2018, 21:10:36
I would imagine most of the data Massdrop actually wants is already publicly accessible.
There's a difference between direct access to the database and having to scrap the website (and you can't scrap pms).

The other point concerning bias should be discussed in order to set transparent moderation rules (that in my personal experience haven't been in place even beforehand). I've mentioned (either here or at DT) the notorious issues at certain high-profile audio forums, and some people have noted how Massdrop got rid of their "vaping" section (thus, for example, tighter moderation in the off-topic subforum isn't unimaginable).

Have you seen this Q&A compilation from this morning?  It explicitly answers this very concern:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96513.0
Yes, that's a public announcement for now. Call me cynical, but do you think I believe it? I've seen too many acquisitions to take those seriously.

Besides, it addresses explicit direct action, not individual moderators' bias. I've seen/had posts redacted/removed, because a mod didn't like them for personal reasons, and this adds a new set of similar reasons. There hasn't been a transparent policy up thus far and now there's another reason why it might be an issue.
Just leave geekhack if this is going to be an endless cycle of skepticism. You have no control over the situation; the transaction is complete. Just let the schism happen so everyone can go back to caring about keyboards; wherever they want. It happened when  ripster was banned and erased and it's happening again now.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: MaNiFeX on Sun, 08 July 2018, 00:25:41
This change in ownership should affect a 0% change in your GH experience.

That said, GH won’t remain the same forever, it shouldn’t. Communities are organic, they grow, they evolve. The key from our point of view is to support that growth, rather than direct that growth. We’re working with the mod team and dedicated community members to learn more about where the community is headed and what we can do as owners to facilitate that growth. Rest assured, any notable changes will be the result of community supported initiatives, not the will of some distant actor. 


Massdrop does way more than keyboards...  and is a corporate entity.  Sorry, that means that this community is no longer organic nor community-run.  This makes geekhack a much less interesting place to be for me.  There's many alternatives and despite wanting to start another group buy in the near future, it probably won't be here, as my last one was. 

WTF?!   Booooooooo.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: grizzly_teddy on Tue, 10 July 2018, 08:56:08
Also, to be honest, I find the interface for GH to be atrocious. The threads and topics are organized well - but that is honestly the only thing that makes this better than /r/mk. This kind of forum style is quite old and outdated. I guess what I am saying is that I cannot stand SMF. Another forum I go to also uses SMF and I hate it. However I am not that angry, as I don't know enough to offer an alternative. Maybe SMF can be configured enough for my liking, but I haven't seen it.

I'm potentially biased because I find Reddit to be atrocious but for what it is, it works well enough. I wouldn't mind a bit of a revamp, but the core has to remain - where else are you going to find a GB thread from 4 years ago that was bumped with relevant information other than here (or potentially on DT, they could do it there too if they wanted)? That kind of approach has to remain even if they touch up the visuals and functionality here and there.

Yeah see, I don't like that idea that a 4 year old post goes to the top. That is a poor user experience, especially for a new user who doesn't know how relevant that post is. I posted a more detailed explanation in the other MassdropxGeekhack thread.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: grizzly_teddy on Tue, 10 July 2018, 09:03:50
I bought an arrows kit from SA Carbon from MD. Turns out it was missing an arrow. I messaged MD via their website, and they did a really great job in getting me out a replacement key. I know it is just one transaction, but I was happy. Enough so that I spent $6k on keysets from MD in the past few months.

...

Are you going to applaud Massdrop for _not_ committing fraud?

I know your comment wasn't directly at me - but no that is not the point. The point is that they owned their mistake and took care of it: immediately.  They didn't give me a hard time, they didn't take 10 days to get back to me. That is good customer service. That is what I am saying. And how did they even get an extra key for me? They either had to have had purchased extras themselves, or have such a good relationship with SP that SP was able to produce it right away and send it. Either case shows that they took ownership of a mistake - and even planned ahead in case that mistake would happen.

I know they messed up with the Ergodox and some other drops, but I think it is evident that they are in general doing a really good job and trying to do better.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 10 July 2018, 12:52:33
To toss in my 2 cents after some further discussion has taken place here:
I think the worst thing for this community is fragmentation.  I can certainly understand the frustration and concern, but I don't see why we can't just wait and see.  Speaking for myself and presumably the rest of the mod team as well, we won't exactly sit idly by while Massdrop (potentially, in these worst-case-scenario theories) ruins the forum.  We are not owned by Massdrop and I'm not afraid to speak out at any point.  I value this community much more than anything that MD could (potentially, again) take from me by doing so.  Yeah, this is a huge change to the forum, and we should be alert.  But I think it is absolutely too soon to start splintering off and creating new pockets of community. 


Yeah see, I don't like that idea that a 4 year old post goes to the top. That is a poor user experience, especially for a new user who doesn't know how relevant that post is. I posted a more detailed explanation in the other MassdropxGeekhack thread.

It's not really a poor user experience, it sounds more like a misalignment of goals.  Sites like reddit are intended to show you the hottest, newest content as rapidly as possible.  This makes for a very poor user experience if you're hoping to have an ongoing discussion and develop an idea/project from start to finish, but a great user experience if you want to see the latest things being discussed.  A niche hobbyist forum like geekhack would be essentially useless if it followed that format, since the idea is to continue discussions for potentially years at a time, especially in project-based threads.  Not to mention media threads where you have an entire catalog of posts from the beginning, at your fingertips - no need to search for all the nice Clack pics or anything like that. 

Anyway, this is a philosophical discussion that doesn't really have a conclusion, it all comes down to preferences and intent.  ;)

(I'm assuming your comment was more directed at GB-type threads, in which case yes there is absolutely room for improvement, but I don't think it requires an overhaul of the entire forum structure)
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: rioc on Tue, 10 July 2018, 15:52:24
To toss in my 2 cents after some further discussion has taken place here:
I think the worst thing for this community is fragmentation.  I can certainly understand the frustration and concern, but I don't see why we can't just wait and see.  Speaking for myself and presumably the rest of the mod team as well, we won't exactly sit idly by while Massdrop (potentially, in these worst-case-scenario theories) ruins the forum.  We are not owned by Massdrop and I'm not afraid to speak out at any point.  I value this community much more than anything that MD could (potentially, again) take from me by doing so.  Yeah, this is a huge change to the forum, and we should be alert.  But I think it is absolutely too soon to start splintering off and creating new pockets of community. 


Yeah see, I don't like that idea that a 4 year old post goes to the top. That is a poor user experience, especially for a new user who doesn't know how relevant that post is. I posted a more detailed explanation in the other MassdropxGeekhack thread.

It's not really a poor user experience, it sounds more like a misalignment of goals.  Sites like reddit are intended to show you the hottest, newest content as rapidly as possible.  This makes for a very poor user experience if you're hoping to have an ongoing discussion and develop an idea/project from start to finish, but a great user experience if you want to see the latest things being discussed.  A niche hobbyist forum like geekhack would be essentially useless if it followed that format, since the idea is to continue discussions for potentially years at a time, especially in project-based threads.  Not to mention media threads where you have an entire catalog of posts from the beginning, at your fingertips - no need to search for all the nice Clack pics or anything like that. 

Anyway, this is a philosophical discussion that doesn't really have a conclusion, it all comes down to preferences and intent.  ;)

(I'm assuming your comment was more directed at GB-type threads, in which case yes there is absolutely room for improvement, but I don't think it requires an overhaul of the entire forum structure)


PREACH! I'm certainly not gonna spend time on that other feed, sticking with gh!
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: grizzly_teddy on Tue, 10 July 2018, 16:02:36

A niche hobbyist forum like geekhack would be essentially useless if it followed that format, since the idea is to continue discussions for potentially years at a time, especially in project-based threads.

I don't think that GeekHack should be exactly like Reddit - but that Group buys and long running posts need to be better segregated from new posts. I guess that's all it boils down to for me.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 10 July 2018, 16:39:30

A niche hobbyist forum like geekhack would be essentially useless if it followed that format, since the idea is to continue discussions for potentially years at a time, especially in project-based threads.

I don't think that GeekHack should be exactly like Reddit - but that Group buys and long running posts need to be better segregated from new posts. I guess that's all it boils down to for me.

Yep, makes good sense to me - I certainly don't disagree.  :thumb:  Could really use an overhaul of the GB subforum, it's long overdue at this point.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 30 July 2018, 06:10:56
I drop out for a little while, and look what happens to the place! :eek:
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: fanpeople on Mon, 30 July 2018, 06:44:12
I drop out for a little while, and look what happens to the place! :eek:

Oh **** i completly forgot about this. Was some sweet sweet drama.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 13 August 2018, 15:19:13
Please remember: this thread is not a feedback thread on Massdrop performance on Massdrop.com.  Massdrop runs Massdrop.com.  This site is moderated by geekhack moderators who are selected from the site community.

For feedback on Massdrop as a vendor, please go here:  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81718.0  or directly to Massdrop discussion forums.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: yinzer on Mon, 13 August 2018, 15:45:02
Please remember: this thread is not a feedback thread on Massdrop performance on Massdrop.com.  Massdrop runs Massdrop.com.  This site is moderated by geekhack moderators who are selected from the site community.

For feedback on Massdrop as a vendor, please go here:  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81718.0  or directly to Massdrop discussion forums.

I object to the decision to remove the entire discussion from this thread for the reason stated.

The discussion related to how Massdrop relates to a part of the geekhack community. This thread is about Massdrop's purchase of geekhack.

Further, the discussion was a follow-up to a comment I made on the page one. If my original comment wasn't off topic, I'm not sure why it is now.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 13 August 2018, 15:54:34
Please remember: this thread is not a feedback thread on Massdrop performance on Massdrop.com.  Massdrop runs Massdrop.com.  This site is moderated by geekhack moderators who are selected from the site community.

For feedback on Massdrop as a vendor, please go here:  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81718.0  or directly to Massdrop discussion forums.

I object to the decision to remove the entire discussion from this thread for the reason stated.

The discussion related to how Massdrop relates to a part of the geekhack community. This thread is about Massdrop's purchase of geekhack.

Further, the discussion was a follow-up to a comment I made on the page one. If my original comment wasn't off topic, I'm not sure why it is now.

Massdrop is for the foreseeable future keeping geekhack as community-run website with our existing rules and regulations.  If you have a problem with how Massdrop handles its buys and what buys it allows on Massdrop.com, it has nothing to do with how this site is being run.  The most recent posts were a bunch of non-constructive off-topic name calling.
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: HotRoderX on Mon, 13 August 2018, 16:14:00
Mods = communism

Please remember: this thread is not a feedback thread on Massdrop performance on Massdrop.com.  Massdrop runs Massdrop.com.  This site is moderated by geekhack moderators who are selected from the site community.

For feedback on Massdrop as a vendor, please go here:  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81718.0  or directly to Massdrop discussion forums.

I object to the decision to remove the entire discussion from this thread for the reason stated.

The discussion related to how Massdrop relates to a part of the geekhack community. This thread is about Massdrop's purchase of geekhack.

Further, the discussion was a follow-up to a comment I made on the page one. If my original comment wasn't off topic, I'm not sure why it is now.

Massdrop is for the foreseeable future keeping geekhack as community-run website with our existing rules and regulations.  If you have a problem with how Massdrop handles its buys and what buys it allows on Massdrop.com, it has nothing to do with how this site is being run.  The most recent posts were a bunch of non-constructive off-topic name calling.

Irony.

 :p
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Mon, 13 August 2018, 17:39:07
So much salt
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: switchnollie on Tue, 14 August 2018, 14:21:10
cmon now

I'll try to be optimistic.
But I'll also try to learn Korean.

me n photekq will show you the ways of otd lotto
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 25 August 2018, 18:03:22
So much salt

Wouldn't be GH otherwise :p
Title: Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Sat, 25 August 2018, 18:17:15
So much salt

Wouldn't be *any online community* otherwise :p

FTFY