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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: xondat on Fri, 29 January 2016, 04:21:29

Title: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Fri, 29 January 2016, 04:21:29
The creator:

Vermillion or zefyr (ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.) is a Korean based keyboard creator, making the following: Vergo type.T, alpetit, alpetit II, VE.A with Vergo type.T-II. He is a member of the KBDLAB and has always been interested in building "endgame" ergonomic keyboards.

"Vergo" is a mixture of Vermillion and Ergonomic. The VE.A is an updated version of all the ergonomic boards he has designed and made. This one comes with a stand so that it is more comfortable to type on, but it seems optional.

History:

The first round was private, as it was mainly a test of quality and for the production time scale. He kept it to people that he talked to very often, so that he could get good feedback about how the board held up. Last round was very personal, and had custom engraving and numbered parts but this won't be involved this time.

He has ran a few group buys before, and this is the first international one. There is already a lot of hype around the VE.A, so spots will fill up quickly.

Specification of VE.A:
FAQ:

When will this happen?
No date is set in stone, but late February is a possibility.

What switches can the PCB take?
MX and Alps.

What connection links the two parts?
SATA.

Is there a list to get one of these boards?
Originally, there was. But due to the amount of interest there isn't one anymore.

What is the expected cost?
$400-450. There is Korean tax too, which is 10% + 3.4%.

How many can be made?
First mention was 30, second was 50. Somewhere between there.

What colors are available?
Black, silver & possibly dark gray. This may change.

What other options will be available?
Acrylic stand & pre-soldering will be included as an option.

What firmware will be used?
BootMapperClient (http://blog.winkeyless.kr/181) by winkeyless.kr

Gallery:

(http://i.imgur.com/Yyw4Jh1.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/p6duEU0.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/bCmCyW0.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/P0UazAE.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/wCTEdsb.jpg)

(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/6520/770/286/003/299997b12017e3bb2a1737d1a9f41a1f.JPG)

(http://i.imgur.com/3ULbcux.jpg)

(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/525/438/003/c198aa51a577d8980f94a7dfd4ef18bd.jpg)

Other links:

VE.A GB post (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152371)
Initial Sample (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3091358)
Final Sample (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152205)
Vergo Stand (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3286770&mid=board_etc)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: luckyryan333 on Fri, 29 January 2016, 09:23:11
post a summary from what I know.
hope to be helpful.

VE.A stands for Vermillion's Ergo(nomic) keyboard - Armored.
Vermillion is a member of KBDLAB. He has been interested with building an ergonomic style keyboard consistently.
Usually keyboards he has made are called "Vergo", which means Vermillion's Ergonomic.
VE.A is the enhanced Vergo succeeds the previous one.
Basically it should be equipped with some pairs of stand(so-called Vergo Stand) in order to adjust a tilt angle.
Using Vergo Stand, a pair of palm rest also should be prepared to type on VE.A with stability.
Additionally a small plate to engrave something personal such as words, symbols or drawings is available optionally.

Some links are below.

VE.A GB post (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152371) (needs to log in)
Initial Sample (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3091358)
Final Sample (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152205)
Vergo Stand (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3286770&mid=board_etc)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vittra on Fri, 29 January 2016, 09:39:33
Thanks for the compilation of information. I recall the creator posting in a thread within the past month and the VE.A has been receiving some mention in threads ever since :D.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Fri, 29 January 2016, 15:16:11
Yeah, this is all kinds of amazing, and probably endgame for very many. Thanks for making this thread, and thanks to any and all who contribute information regarding the keyboard-  - not simply for info that would lead to inclusion in the imminent groupbuy (if thats a reality).

Heres to hoping we garner enough of an interest for someone to coordinate a group buy on our end.  :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 29 January 2016, 15:19:21
As far as I know there is a possibility that there will be orders opened up to international for the next round which is late February. Perhaps if enough interest is shown then they will decide to sell some for us. There's still a chance that it may be limited to kbdlab. The first GB was a private/secret one.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Fri, 29 January 2016, 15:32:13
that vergo type T, wasn't so bad either... (credits to /u/hmwgbworld on da reddits)

(http://i.imgur.com/ueznt2o.jpg)

V moar pics V
More
(http://i.imgur.com/JK82v0S.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/g1N3W88.jpg)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ika on Fri, 29 January 2016, 15:44:43
I'll just leave this here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63296.0
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Lepidus on Fri, 29 January 2016, 16:02:04
I use broken vintage alps keyboards for my custom keyboard.

Here's some of my works.

1. alpetit II : Alps Salmon Pink Switch from Dell AT101
acrylic housing + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
It's no good for me. I don't use it. Switches are too damaged, I just assembled this for sample shots. What a waste.

2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)

3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.

:3
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Sat, 30 January 2016, 01:42:06
sweet any price estimates?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:26:29
sweet any price estimates?

For the private GB it was ~$400 so I'd assume a little more than that for international, if possible.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Sat, 30 January 2016, 11:59:00
I need this keyboard in my life.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: limitz on Sat, 30 January 2016, 14:33:37
This keyboard is incredible. Can't wait for the international GB.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Bucake on Sat, 30 January 2016, 14:38:52
wow that alps plate spring switch.. sounds so sweet
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Sat, 30 January 2016, 15:47:58
sweet any price estimates?

For the private GB it was ~$400 so I'd assume a little more than that for international, if possible.

man that's steep. Hopefully we can get someone here on GH to get in contact with people over at kbdlab and get a GB for us.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Sat, 30 January 2016, 16:27:33
sweet any price estimates?

For the private GB it was ~$400 so I'd assume a little more than that for international, if possible.

man that's steep. Hopefully we can get someone here on GH to get in contact with people over at kbdlab and get a GB for us.

I did forget to add that that price was with fees and shipping included. I wouldn't say it's cheap but that's the normal price. Look at Ducks, LZs, etc., after all the fees you'll be looking at ~$400 for a board.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Sun, 31 January 2016, 08:04:23
Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hoggy on Sun, 31 January 2016, 08:09:13
Hi ZeFyr,

1.6 months?
2. PayPal is my preferred payment method
3. Group buys here start to collect payment before production.

Hope it helps
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 31 January 2016, 08:15:30
Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.

Hey Zefyr,

Welcome to geekhack!

I've noticed for keyboards GB a good one will usually be around 2-3 months. Some GBs, like the Orion v2, have lasted 9 months but that is obviously not ideal. I think if you can get your first group buy to be around 3-4 months that would be fantastic, the sooner the better but I can understand waiting for production.

PayPal is usually the preferred payment method that we like to use for GBs.

Normal GBs would have a 2 week order period and then send out invoices for them to be paid and start production. I noticed that the faster GBs already put an order in to the shop to get production going before they are paid by the members but that can require a fair bit of money beforehand.

I'm super excited to try and get my hands on one of your boards, it looks really interesting!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Sun, 31 January 2016, 08:19:57
Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.

Amazing board. Definitely want it, please make this happen.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Sun, 31 January 2016, 08:48:41
Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.

Welcome to Geekhack; nice to have you here.

Regarding your 3 questions, I ran a survey asking 2 of those, so I can PM you the results later if you wish. I'd say PayPal for the payment method though, its the easiest and safest way.

If you need any help or someone to talk to, feel free to PM and I'll try and help! :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Sun, 31 January 2016, 09:04:12
Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.

Welcome to Geekhack; nice to have you here.

Regarding your 3 questions, I ran a survey asking 2 of those, so I can PM you the results later if you wish. I'd say PayPal for the payment method though, its the easiest and safest way.

If you need any help or someone to talk to, feel free to PM and I'll try and help! :thumb:

Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.

Amazing board. Definitely want it, please make this happen.


Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.

Hey Zefyr,

Welcome to geekhack!

I've noticed for keyboards GB a good one will usually be around 2-3 months. Some GBs, like the Orion v2, have lasted 9 months but that is obviously not ideal. I think if you can get your first group buy to be around 3-4 months that would be fantastic, the sooner the better but I can understand waiting for production.

PayPal is usually the preferred payment method that we like to use for GBs.

Normal GBs would have a 2 week order period and then send out invoices for them to be paid and start production. I noticed that the faster GBs already put an order in to the shop to get production going before they are paid by the members but that can require a fair bit of money beforehand.

I'm super excited to try and get my hands on one of your boards, it looks really interesting!

Hi ZeFyr,

1.6 months?
2. PayPal is my preferred payment method
3. Group buys here start to collect payment before production.

Hope it helps


Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.

Welcome to Geekhack; nice to have you here.

Regarding your 3 questions, I ran a survey asking 2 of those, so I can PM you the results later if you wish. I'd say PayPal for the payment method though, its the easiest and safest way.

If you need any help or someone to talk to, feel free to PM and I'll try and help! :thumb:

Well, this is nice and quick, surprised.
I got my answers, thanks guys.
I'll link my PayPal account with my bank account first.
I asked same question to kbdlab designers who has international GB experiences.
First GB of VE.A was made shipping in about 1.5month. So 3 months that I can make I think :)
Thanks for quick reply.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Sun, 31 January 2016, 09:41:37
Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.

Hello there Vermillion!! Thank you for coming on here and talking to us! I think your product is superb (from all i've gathered thus far), and am super excited you are seeking information pertaining to our market  !! I'm confident that many people are interested and willing to wait for one of your keyboards.

 P.S. - please also consider making the stand available !!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Sun, 31 January 2016, 10:21:55
I feel like I have to make something about VE.A clear.

1. Why first round of VE.A was private?
- I have simple answer for that.
It was my first metal housing design-production trial.
As you know, small production is really expensive. CNC, MCT, Laser... under 1k quantity is all really expensive. ( I tried so hard to keep it low as I could. )
So, I asked everyone for one condition of joining GB.
'It probably cannot meet the quality what you paid for, I cannot guarantee about quality and production schedule.'
That's why. True story.

2. I rejected some application for first round, but accepted some what was the point?
- I have simple answer for that too.
I accepted who has been kept touch with me in months. We talked about condition and so on for a long time.

3. Will Second round will go?
- I don't have the answer what you might want.
I'm super busy recently. My occupation is software engineer / programmer in a small company of damn-worker-lurking-country.
If things goes well as I planned (and of course my clients is satisfied about what I make), I might can make some time for my hobby again.
As Steezus mentioned, since VE.A has introduced at GH and KBDLAB, there was requests about 2nd round that I can make it through MoQ.

Any question is welcome. I'm really happy to have conversation about split-keyboard "internationally".
And again, thanks for your interest on my humble design.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Sun, 31 January 2016, 10:26:41
Oh...
Hello guys.
I'm Vermillion, designer of VE series.
At first, sorry about lack of GB information.
It's because, I myself have no estimation of schedule, money flow... etc.
I'll do my best to make it. -After late Feb, I'm super busy recently.-
And here's some question about GB.

1. How long can you wait for shipping?
2. What kind of payment method you prefer or used?
3. When did former GBs on GH stared payment process? before production? or before shipping?

I'm total international trade rookie (not a virgin, I sold "three" of'em. lol)
Need your gentle help.
Thanks again guys for having interest on my board.

Hello there Vermillion!! Thank you for coming on here and talking to us! I think your product is superb (from all i've gathered thus far), and am super excited you are seeking information pertaining to our market  !! I'm confident that many people are interested and willing to wait for one of your keyboards.

 P.S. - please also consider making the stand available !!

I think I can make it as an option. (In ROK, it costs about 35000 KRW, it's about 30 USD)
Thanks for suggestion.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vittra on Sun, 31 January 2016, 10:57:01
If you haven't used Paypal to accept large sums of money before, please be aware that they may lock the money for a period of time before releasing it to you, and they may request proof that you are shipping out a tangible good. It is possible if you speak to them beforehand that this will not occur.

Someone may be able to provide more information regarding this, but I have seen various people experience this before from different backgrounds (vinyl record boxsets, things here on GH) when accepting "pre-order" money.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Sun, 31 January 2016, 11:03:37
If you haven't used Paypal to accept large sums of money before, please be aware that they may lock the money for a period of time before releasing it to you, and they may request proof that you are shipping out a tangible good. It is possible if you speak to them beforehand that this will not occur.

Someone may be able to provide more information regarding this, but I have seen various people experience this before from different backgrounds (vinyl record boxsets, things here on GH) when accepting "pre-order" money.

Thank you so much! Good point!
I'll check that before starting GB.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 11:18:30
I'll just leave this here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63296.0

I knew I saw an earlier post about this!

Quote
2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)

I actually just received an IBM P70 keyboard with Alps Plate Spring switches and they are very interesting. I don't think I like them as much as Alps SKCM, but they are fantastic in their own right and the compatibility in terms of caps with Alps SKCM/SKCL is fantastic.

-

Looking forward to seeing your progress here, Zefyr. Your VE.A will likely be my last custom  for a good amount of time so I can focus on other things (aside from finishing up my second hotswappable Alps Eagle build and Alps hotswappable Lightpad conversion) so it'll be a fantastic board to really wrap things up!

I wish I could help you more with that Caps Lock stepping issue. Is it more so because the PCB is both Alps and Cherry MX that causes the conflict, or would it be this way if it were just an Alps PCB alone, good sir?

Again, thanks for stopping by here, Zefyr. It isn't often we see people from the more elusive kbdlab stop by here and offer their custom products!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: spanyam on Mon, 01 February 2016, 14:54:07
hotswappable Alps

Bit of a n00b question here, but does hotswappable Alps mean that you can simply pull out a switch without desoldering, stick a different one in, and have it working immediately?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 01 February 2016, 15:01:47
hotswappable Alps

Bit of a n00b question here, but does hotswappable Alps mean that you can simply pull out a switch without desoldering, stick a different one in, and have it working immediately?

Yes.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: spanyam on Mon, 01 February 2016, 15:04:10
Yes.

That's goddamn incredible.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 01 February 2016, 19:55:48
Watching the hell out of this thread!  God damn I want this!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Mon, 01 February 2016, 20:02:14
Watching the hell out of this thread!  God damn I want this!

this thread is being watched so hard - - by so manyy, im sure  ;)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 01 February 2016, 20:03:47
Really interesting and great looking board! Gotta keep my eye on this!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 03:05:02
I had a big misunderstanding about GB rule.

New Member rule :

YOU NEED AT LEAST 25 POSTS AND 60 DAYS OF MEMBERSHIP TO POST NEW TOPICS IN CLASSIFIEDS & GROUP BUYS

I thought it was 6 months but yey it's not, I'll be qualified to start GB here in a week.
So, I'll run GB here and kbdlab same time.

I got some PM about limitation of quantity.
I asked my factory guy one month maximum productivity, and he said "Easily over what you can get from GB."
But frankly how many application can I get? like 10 of'em? I doubt it. (Hey you all know it's expensive. even I know. lol)
I'll keep it as many as I can handle, about 30 will be limit.
I mean by "handle" is, in my small room, while my kids and wife sleeping, all alone, at midnight, writing flash, packaging tiny chips in little zip-bag, stocking, shipping, again all alone.
(You should be in Korea, when I say "my room" to my married friends, they all get jelly. YES I have my own small den in my micro -sweet- home.)

Plus, I'm not a -be fair-let's start now!-type-guy. All who sent PM or e-mail, I noted. You all get priority of application. So don't worry.

All you should worry about is "My boss and my clients have to be happy about what I'm building now."
Unless, GB is all gone. I have three mouths to feed.
Cheers to all fathers over the geek world.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: rho0812 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 03:24:06
My VE.A & VE.A stand ^^

Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Tue, 02 February 2016, 06:49:44
I get paid at the end of the month, I'd love to get a spot in this. 30 sounds like a good number.
Very excited now. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:00:43
I get paid at the end of the month, I'd love to get a spot in this. 30 sounds like a good number.
Very excited now. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thanks for starting this thread xondat.
You are already on my list.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: calavera on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:03:24
watching this thread very closely.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:06:26
If there's going to be a limited quantity, are you going to number them?

I think that would be cool.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:31:06
I just talked with my partner (I mentioned him as my factory guy.)
He also watching this thread (even before I found this thread) and excited about it.

Here's plan.

First, limit quantity is 30.
it can be more if someone helps me quality checking and packaging and shipping.  ;D

Second, application priority.
As I said. I have list. it hit 10th and I consider my list as "pre-survey for production quantity estimation".
Even if list (hopefully) gets 30th name, I'll keep adding list for estimation.
Since my past 4~5 GBs experience, not all people who touched me before GB has joined actual GB. about 30% of them are touched me "just for in case of..." purpose.
I'm a man who think promise seriously, even if it was not a formal mention. So who made contact with me personally will get priority in order.

Third, schedule.
As I planned, I'll start late Feb.
Even if I cannot make spare time for GB, my partner will help. He also can communicate in English.

Fourth, options excluded.
My friends who joined 1st round wants to keep VE.A special, unique, rare thing.
So 2nd round 'personal laser name plate' will be excluded.
And Color option will be simple. Black and Silver. (maybe Dark Grey?)
Gold, Green will not be produced this time.

Fifth, options added.
Acrylic stand will be included as an option.
Pre-soldering will be included as an option, I already reserved best keyboard workshop in R.O.K.

Any question is welcome.
I'm so excited!

-ZeF
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:35:05
If there's going to be a limited quantity, are you going to number them?

I think that would be cool.

No I won't.
I'll keep 1st round production's specialty.
I'm considering 2nd round as mass production or ready-made thing. (... yes I know 30 is not "mass")
So there will be no personalization nor specialty.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Zapheo on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:36:00
I just talked with my partner (I mentioned him as my factory guy.)
I also watching this thread (even before I found this thread) and excited about it.

Here's plan.

First, limit quantity is 30.
it can be more if someone helps me quality checking and packaging and shipping.  ;D

Second, application priority.
As I said. I have list. it hit 10th and I consider my list as "pre-survey for production quantity estimation".
Even if list (hopefully) gets 30th name, I'll keep adding list for estimation.
Since my past 4~5 GBs experience, not all people who touched me before GB has joined actual GB. about 30% of them are touched me "just for in case of..." purpose.
I'm a man who think promise seriously, even if it was not a formal mention. So who made contact with me personally will get priority in order.

Third, schedule.
As I planned, I'll start late Feb.
Even if I cannot make spare time for GB, my partner will help. He also can communicate in English.

Fourth, options excluded.
My friends who joined 1st round wants to keep VE.A special, unique, rare thing.
So 2nd round 'personal laser name plate' will be excluded.
And Color option will be simple. Black and Silver. (maybe Dark Grey?)
Gold, Green will not be produced this time.

Fifth, options added.
Acrylic stand will be included as an option.
Pre-soldering will be included as an option, I already reserved best keyboard workshop in R.O.K.

Any question is welcome.
I'm so excited!

-ZeF

Hopefully I can be allowed to join the GB!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vittra on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:38:55
Thanks for the update, I think keeping the colour options simple for this run makes sense, though I wouldn't mind dark grey as an option (would be my choice :).
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:44:09
Is the board programmable with multiple layers?
Does it support NKRO?

I still want the board, love the design, just wondering that's all
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:44:30
List just hit 15th
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:48:42
Is the board programmable with multiple layers?
Does it support NKRO?

I still want the board, love the design, just wondering that's all

It uses winkeyless BootMapperClient as control program.
You can use 4 programmable layers, custom RGB effect, hardware custom macro, software realtime macro. and so on.

Here's information about firmware.
http://blog.winkeyless.kr/181
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:59:49
I NEED one of these. Hitting you up via pm now.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: axtran on Tue, 02 February 2016, 09:07:58
I'm such a sucker for good Ergo boards. ;)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: logomachy on Tue, 02 February 2016, 09:12:37
. . . because the PCB is both Alps and Cherry MX that causes the conflict, or would it be this way if it were just an Alps PCB alone, good sir?
The PCB supports both Alps and MX? Same for plate?
Could one board have both Alps and MX?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: toidbb on Tue, 02 February 2016, 09:12:48

List just hit 15th

Zefyr,

  I would purchase as well, is this list the one on kdlab? Or how we sign up?

Thanks
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 09:16:36
. . . because the PCB is both Alps and Cherry MX that causes the conflict, or would it be this way if it were just an Alps PCB alone, good sir?
The PCB supports both Alps and MX? Same for plate?
Could one board have both Alps and MX?
Yes, PCB is compatible for Alps and MX both.
Switch mounting plate is not same, stabilizer issue.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 09:17:15

List just hit 15th

Zefyr,

  I would purchase as well, is this list the one on kdlab? Or how we sign up?

Thanks
You just did. You are on my list.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: axtran on Tue, 02 February 2016, 09:18:58

List just hit 15th

Zefyr,

  I would purchase as well, is this list the one on kdlab? Or how we sign up?

Thanks
You just did. You are on my list.

zefyr, can I be put on the list too :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 09:21:41
Apparently, I made big mistake.
GH is global  :'(
(So many PMs  :)))

I just posted IC on forum.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79318.0

You can PM me but also just put your reply on IC thread, that's enough for me :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 09:22:25

List just hit 15th

Zefyr,

  I would purchase as well, is this list the one on kdlab? Or how we sign up?

Thanks
You just did. You are on my list.

zefyr, can I be put on the list too :)

of course you can. :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: romevi on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:30:40
Apparently, I made big mistake.
GH is global  :'(
(So many PMs  :)))

I just posted IC on forum.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79318.0

You can PM me but also just put your reply on IC thread, that's enough for me :)

Will there be a GB for this or is the IC the only way to get this "list"?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:35:01
Yep, posting here as well to try to make it on that list!!  :p count me in please =]
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: fliptrik on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:43:56
I'd also like to be put on that list haha. I don't see a sign up form anywhere.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: elton5354 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:44:10
Can I be on your list too?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:46:12
Apparently, I made big mistake.
GH is global  :'(
(So many PMs  :)))

I just posted IC on forum.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79318.0

You can PM me but also just put your reply on IC thread, that's enough for me :)

Will there be a GB for this or is the IC the only way to get this "list"?

This question is what I was afraid of.
When I said I'm keeping list... I was just trying to be friendly, considering friendship.
Wow, I was so wrong.
But you know, I said it. so, I'll keep my list by PM, e-mail, IC reply.
I'll give priority in order of my own way. List is one of the way.
Please don't take this as bragging or something like that.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: axtran on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:47:39
Apparently, I made big mistake.
GH is global  :'(
(So many PMs  :)))

I just posted IC on forum.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79318.0

You can PM me but also just put your reply on IC thread, that's enough for me :)

Will there be a GB for this or is the IC the only way to get this "list"?

This question is what I was afraid of.
When I said I'm keeping list... I was just trying to be friendly, considering friendship.
Wow, I was so wrong.
But you know, I said it. so, I'll keep my list by PM, e-mail, IC reply.
I'll give priority in order of my own way. List is one of the way.
Please don't take this as bragging or something like that.

I think whatever works for you is best. I would like to add that we are all enthusiasts here, so if you are trying to make a list this way, it may be hard to keep up with! ;)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:49:25
Yeah, it doesn't seem like theres a form or anything, so im not sure by what process Vermillion is going to be selecting people for the "list"
hopefully those that showed interest early on get some priority  :p

edit:

ahh he clarified some--

Quote
This question is what I was afraid of.
When I said I'm keeping list... I was just trying to be friendly, considering friendship.
Wow, I was so wrong.
But you know, I said it. so, I'll keep my list by PM, e-mail, IC reply.
I'll give priority in order of my own way. List is one of the way.
Please don't take this as bragging or something like that.

Will you reach out or post a public list when it fills?  :cool:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:49:56
Apparently, I made big mistake.
GH is global  :'(
(So many PMs  :)))

I just posted IC on forum.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79318.0

You can PM me but also just put your reply on IC thread, that's enough for me :)

Will there be a GB for this or is the IC the only way to get this "list"?

This question is what I was afraid of.
When I said I'm keeping list... I was just trying to be friendly, considering friendship.
Wow, I was so wrong.
But you know, I said it. so, I'll keep my list by PM, e-mail, IC reply.
I'll give priority in order of my own way. List is one of the way.
Please don't take this as bragging or something like that.

I think whatever works for you is best. I would like to add that we are all enthusiasts here, so if you are trying to make a list this way, it may be hard to keep up with! ;)

Thanks for understanding.
What a relief.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 11:07:29
Yeah, it doesn't seem like theres a form or anything, so im not sure by what process Vermillion is going to be selecting people for the "list"
hopefully those that showed interest early on get some priority  :p

edit:

ahh he clarified some--

Quote
This question is what I was afraid of.
When I said I'm keeping list... I was just trying to be friendly, considering friendship.
Wow, I was so wrong.
But you know, I said it. so, I'll keep my list by PM, e-mail, IC reply.
I'll give priority in order of my own way. List is one of the way.
Please don't take this as bragging or something like that.

Will you reach out or post a public list when it fills?  :cool:

You know what? It's already full... That I can handle.
But I'll keep listing.
Hey it's very exciting job lol.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Hexterdude on Tue, 02 February 2016, 11:07:35
I'd be interested in this :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: redbanshee on Tue, 02 February 2016, 12:26:46
Would love to be able to get in on this!  :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 15:14:52
Is the cable between the two halves a sata cable?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Tue, 02 February 2016, 15:15:46
Is the cable between the two halves a sata cable?

Yes it is.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: limitz on Tue, 02 February 2016, 19:25:21
Can I be added to the list as well?

I messaged you several days ago on KDBLab before this thread was made.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 20:33:50
Just pmd. Would also like to be on the list.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 20:42:58
Just pmd. Would also like to be on the list.

Just post in the IC thread if you're interested. He's probably getting swamped with PMs on this.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 20:46:43
Just pmd. Would also like to be on the list.

Just post in the IC thread if you're interested. He's probably getting swamped with PMs on this.

Ya I did. I posted in this thread, just checking up on the keyboard before I even realized zefyr created an IC. Hopefully I can still get in.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: mobbo on Tue, 02 February 2016, 20:49:59
He seems a bit overwhelmed! I hope we haven't scared him away  :-X

The IC thread is locked for now.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Tue, 02 February 2016, 22:00:21
He seems a bit overwhelmed! I hope we haven't scared him away  :-X

The IC thread is locked for now.

It's hard to really say anything against all the interest, because his work is very unique and those are some lovely boards.

I think we just need to realize that, like with artisan makers, we're dealing with a single individual, an artist in his own right, and moreover, someone who's new to GeekHack entirely. As we can see, he wasn't expecting any of this.

I feel bad for him, because I know he just wanted to really make people happy with this board, but now he has the additional burden of choosing who gets one, who doesn't, and how he'll handle the heavy influx of interest.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: romevi on Tue, 02 February 2016, 22:59:24
I'll opt out. I was on the fence for this board, and I'll gladly let someone else have a go if I even were being considered.
That'll actually free up some funds for things I already had planned in the budget.  :-*
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: logomachy on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:17:43
I'll opt out. I was on the fence for this board, and I'll gladly let someone else have a go if I even were being considered.
That'll actually free up some funds for things I already had planned in the budget.  :-*
In the IC you said you couldn't afford one at this time. Is this some more reverse psychology? Maybe you'll end up getting one free.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: romevi on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:21:51
I'll opt out. I was on the fence for this board, and I'll gladly let someone else have a go if I even were being considered.
That'll actually free up some funds for things I already had planned in the budget.  :-*
In the IC you said you couldn't afford one at this time. Is this some more reverse psychology? Maybe you'll end up getting one free.

lol Later on I said I might join after all. I eliminated some things from the monthly budget, but now I'll go back to the original plan as if I never saw this thread.

That is, *if* I was even put on the list!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: logomachy on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:26:12
I'll opt out. I was on the fence for this board, and I'll gladly let someone else have a go if I even were being considered.
That'll actually free up some funds for things I already had planned in the budget.  :-*
In the IC you said you couldn't afford one at this time. Is this some more reverse psychology? Maybe you'll end up getting one free.

lol Later on I said I might join after all. I eliminated some things from the monthly budget, but now I'll go back to the original plan as if I never saw this thread.

That is, *if* I was even put on the list!
Just join in on the even cooler next version.

HOPE
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:30:14
I'll opt out. I was on the fence for this board, and I'll gladly let someone else have a go if I even were being considered.
That'll actually free up some funds for things I already had planned in the budget.  :-*
In the IC you said you couldn't afford one at this time. Is this some more reverse psychology? Maybe you'll end up getting one free.

lol Later on I said I might join after all. I eliminated some things from the monthly budget, but now I'll go back to the original plan as if I never saw this thread.

That is, *if* I was even put on the list!

Bad news my friend, you're on my list.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:30:44
I'll opt out. I was on the fence for this board, and I'll gladly let someone else have a go if I even were being considered.
That'll actually free up some funds for things I already had planned in the budget.  :-*
In the IC you said you couldn't afford one at this time. Is this some more reverse psychology? Maybe you'll end up getting one free.

lol Later on I said I might join after all. I eliminated some things from the monthly budget, but now I'll go back to the original plan as if I never saw this thread.

That is, *if* I was even put on the list!

Bad news my friend, you're on my list.
Can I take his spot?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:31:09
I'll opt out. I was on the fence for this board, and I'll gladly let someone else have a go if I even were being considered.
That'll actually free up some funds for things I already had planned in the budget.  :-*
In the IC you said you couldn't afford one at this time. Is this some more reverse psychology? Maybe you'll end up getting one free.

lol Later on I said I might join after all. I eliminated some things from the monthly budget, but now I'll go back to the original plan as if I never saw this thread.

That is, *if* I was even put on the list!

Bad news my friend, you're on my list.
Can I take his spot?

You already also are. lol
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:31:58
I'll opt out. I was on the fence for this board, and I'll gladly let someone else have a go if I even were being considered.
That'll actually free up some funds for things I already had planned in the budget.  :-*
In the IC you said you couldn't afford one at this time. Is this some more reverse psychology? Maybe you'll end up getting one free.

lol Later on I said I might join after all. I eliminated some things from the monthly budget, but now I'll go back to the original plan as if I never saw this thread.

That is, *if* I was even put on the list!

Bad news my friend, you're on my list.
Can I take his spot?

You already also are. lol
Yes! This is still slated to run later this month right?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:43:50
I'll opt out. I was on the fence for this board, and I'll gladly let someone else have a go if I even were being considered.
That'll actually free up some funds for things I already had planned in the budget.  :-*
In the IC you said you couldn't afford one at this time. Is this some more reverse psychology? Maybe you'll end up getting one free.

lol Later on I said I might join after all. I eliminated some things from the monthly budget, but now I'll go back to the original plan as if I never saw this thread.

That is, *if* I was even put on the list!

Bad news my friend, you're on my list.
Can I take his spot?

You already also are. lol

messing with everyone's emotions :p
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:46:39
OK guys.
I have to admit I've under-estimated your interests on this.
I cannot keep listing, since tracking time is too much for me.
So, I'll not listing anymore. It hit almost 100. Waaaaaay to many.

And, Really, You should not think "the list" as pass for joining.
I already mentioned several times (*soap*)
It's just like 'WOW I have these many guys who have interest on my work! I gotta share if I can!' thing.
I'm not a businessman nor a machine. So I might dropped somebody.
And I think sharing my list can cause some kind of argue... So, I'll not share my list.
I'll pick application on my own way.

I had a long night, since I forgot turn off my PM notification e-mail.
Yes, it was midnight here guys haha. I got a bad slamming from my wife.

I talked with my partner and already reserved room for packaging work.

All I have to do is solve some problem with payment and withdrawal from paypal.
I got some ahead-information that might be a serious pain in my ass.
Worst case, I might charge Korean Tax (10% + 3.4%).

I think me and my partner can handle up to 50.
But you know, money issue should be handled first.

Any suggestion for that money issue is needed.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: FrostyToast on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:49:11
Haha we are sorry for the massive amount of interest  :p
Throwing out the list is probably the best course of action since there are just way too many people who are interested.
Good luck with the group buy! I hope the raise to 50 people isn't going to be overwhelming.  :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:52:57
Haha we are sorry for the massive amount of interest Throwing out the list is probably the best course of action since there are just way too many people who are interested.
Good luck with the group buy! I hope the raise to 50 people isn't going to be overwhelming.  :thumb:
Yeah hopefully with the raise of the cap you and your partner still make it without a head ache. :)

Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:53:32
And I think sharing my list can cause some kind of argue... So, I'll not share my list.
I'll pick application on my own way.

This is definitely the way to go. People will understand that you can't make keyboards for everyone without it becoming a chore for you or something that isn't fun anymore

All I have to do is solve some problem with payment and withdrawal from paypal.
I got some ahead-information that might be a serious pain in my ass.
Worst case, I might charge Korean Tax (10% + 3.4%).

I think me and my partner can handle up to 50.
But you know, money issue should be handled first.

Any suggestion for that money issue is needed.

Really, just charge whatever you feel like you need to cover any fees you might encounter + whatever extra you feel like you deserve. Again, people here will understand completely


And seriously, don't feel like you need to raise the number of orders here. Whatever is comfortable for you
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: munch on Tue, 02 February 2016, 23:54:57
very very beautiful keyboard. amazing work!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:08:27
And I think sharing my list can cause some kind of argue... So, I'll not share my list.
I'll pick application on my own way.

This is definitely the way to go. People will understand that you can't make keyboards for everyone without it becoming a chore for you or something that isn't fun anymore

All I have to do is solve some problem with payment and withdrawal from paypal.
I got some ahead-information that might be a serious pain in my ass.
Worst case, I might charge Korean Tax (10% + 3.4%).

I think me and my partner can handle up to 50.
But you know, money issue should be handled first.

Any suggestion for that money issue is needed.

Really, just charge whatever you feel like you need to cover any fees you might encounter + whatever extra you feel like you deserve. Again, people here will understand completely


And seriously, don't feel like you need to raise the number of orders here. Whatever is comfortable for you

He seems a bit overwhelmed! I hope we haven't scared him away  :-X

The IC thread is locked for now.

It's hard to really say anything against all the interest, because his work is very unique and those are some lovely boards.

I think we just need to realize that, like with artisan makers, we're dealing with a single individual, an artist in his own right, and moreover, someone who's new to GeekHack entirely. As we can see, he wasn't expecting any of this.

I feel bad for him, because I know he just wanted to really make people happy with this board, but now he has the additional burden of choosing who gets one, who doesn't, and how he'll handle the heavy influx of interest.

And I think sharing my list can cause some kind of argue... So, I'll not share my list.
I'll pick application on my own way.

This is definitely the way to go. People will understand that you can't make keyboards for everyone without it becoming a chore for you or something that isn't fun anymore

All I have to do is solve some problem with payment and withdrawal from paypal.
I got some ahead-information that might be a serious pain in my ass.
Worst case, I might charge Korean Tax (10% + 3.4%).

I think me and my partner can handle up to 50.
But you know, money issue should be handled first.

Any suggestion for that money issue is needed.

Really, just charge whatever you feel like you need to cover any fees you might encounter + whatever extra you feel like you deserve. Again, people here will understand completely


And seriously, don't feel like you need to raise the number of orders here. Whatever is comfortable for you

I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to, it's like sickness, a bad one.
What you said was released my emotional burden.
Still, I'll do my best to make this happen.

As I talked with E3E long night,
What I want is just...
To who types, split keyboard should be a thing for them that cannot be replaced.
That why I made VE series not just for me.

Thank you guys, I'm so happy now, even I had a nightmare somebody hitting my skull over and over again.  :D
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:10:10
I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to, it's like sickness, a bad one.
What you said was released my emotional burden.
Still, I'll do my best to make this happen.

As I talked with E3E long night,
What I want is just...
To who types, split keyboard should be a thing for them that cannot be replaced.
That why I made VE series not just for me.

Thank you guys, I'm so happy now, even I had a nightmare somebody hitting my skull over and over again.  :D

 ;D
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:18:15
OK guys.
I have to admit I've under-estimated your interests on this.
I cannot keep listing, since tracking time is too much for me.
So, I'll not listing anymore. It hit almost 100. Waaaaaay to many.

And, Really, You should not think "the list" as pass for joining.
I already mentioned several times (*soap*)
It's just like 'WOW I have these many guys who have interest on my work! I gotta share if I can!' thing.
I'm not a businessman nor a machine. So I might dropped somebody.
And I think sharing my list can cause some kind of argue... So, I'll not share my list.
I'll pick application on my own way.

I had a long night, since I forgot turn off my PM notification e-mail.
Yes, it was midnight here guys haha. I got a bad slamming from my wife.

I talked with my partner and already reserved room for packaging work.

All I have to do is solve some problem with payment and withdrawal from paypal.
I got some ahead-information that might be a serious pain in my ass.
Worst case, I might charge Korean Tax (10% + 3.4%).

I think me and my partner can handle up to 50.
But you know, money issue should be handled first.

Any suggestion for that money issue is needed.

Oh, that makes sense! In that case, I'm definitely interested in your work!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: LXXXIX on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:18:29
Echoing what others have said if you need help with something feel free to message me and I'll help any way I can.

Oh and I never said it, but welcome to geekhack! :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: appleonama on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:23:25
just posting some hype no worries

(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/928/961/002/923089cd0bc368c76d41d68d3a63430a.jpg)

(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/522/324/003/fb53ac7a01cc585e6c26715f36eebcb3.jpg)

(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/522/324/003/839e48188b343a61526d52ea7880411d.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/p2CUJv7.jpg)

(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/362/784/8233b401f0e1fcd1992448da5ffa184c.png)

(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/867/202/003/b70ff4db09bc34e39e51773c1ef2eb2e.jpg)

(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/325/898/4cd9a9770916eada4c975bcc9b5a5a3c.JPG)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Zapheo on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:25:17
just posting some hype no worries

Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/928/961/002/923089cd0bc368c76d41d68d3a63430a.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/522/324/003/fb53ac7a01cc585e6c26715f36eebcb3.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/522/324/003/839e48188b343a61526d52ea7880411d.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/p2CUJv7.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/362/784/8233b401f0e1fcd1992448da5ffa184c.png)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/867/202/003/b70ff4db09bc34e39e51773c1ef2eb2e.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/325/898/4cd9a9770916eada4c975bcc9b5a5a3c.JPG)


This is going to be my end game keyboard, for sure. I can't wait!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: appleonama on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:26:05
just posting some hype no worries

Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/928/961/002/923089cd0bc368c76d41d68d3a63430a.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/522/324/003/fb53ac7a01cc585e6c26715f36eebcb3.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/522/324/003/839e48188b343a61526d52ea7880411d.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/p2CUJv7.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/362/784/8233b401f0e1fcd1992448da5ffa184c.png)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/867/202/003/b70ff4db09bc34e39e51773c1ef2eb2e.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/325/898/4cd9a9770916eada4c975bcc9b5a5a3c.JPG)


This is going to be my end game keyboard, for sure. I can't wait!
AHAHHAH I said that with the orion v2 and here I am. There is no end game son!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: trizkut on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:26:33
I will be sad if I don't get in, but I am really glad more split keyboard options are becoming available!  :thumb:

Good luck on this project and if you have any bad news along the way (delays, increased cost), don't be afraid to let us know!  Bad news is better than silence
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: radio_killah on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:26:43
Zefyr if you are reading this,

I would just take your time to collect the feedback and interest from the project and come up with a solid plan before reporting back.

There is so much information going around that I feel it is going to confuse people.

Edit: Doh. I forgot you're probably in Korea so actually it is the afternoon when I am posting this.

Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:29:42
I think we should just slow down a bit with this thread. He's obviously feeling a tad overwhelmed, and I think we should do our best not to exacerbate the stress :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:41:35
====================================================================================
VE.A Specification
(Do Not Quote This Post : I'll revise this post.)

====================================================================================
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:43:44
AHAHHAH I said that with the orion v2 and here I am. There is no end game son!
+1
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:46:26
Thanks for the specifications! I'm guessing that picture was taken by you? I really love the shot :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 01:08:58
Thanks for the specifications! I'm guessing that picture was taken by you? I really love the shot :thumb:
It's not me, It's just my camera did.
My skill sux, SO I BOUGHT VERY EXPENSIVE CAMERA.
Now I know by your post, WORTH IT.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 01:14:18
Thanks for the specifications! I'm guessing that picture was taken by you? I really love the shot :thumb:
It's not me, It's just my camera did.
My skill sux, SO I BOUGHT VERY EXPENSIVE CAMERA.
Now I know by your post, WORTH IT.

 :p
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: JaccoW on Wed, 03 February 2016, 01:14:47
Just posting to keep updated on this. Looks really interesting but I probably wont be able to join this year just yet.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Zapheo on Wed, 03 February 2016, 01:15:20
Just sent you a PM Vermillion. :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: nickheller on Wed, 03 February 2016, 01:22:31
I have not tried a split keyboard, so I am not sure if I would like this, but it does look very cool!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 02:26:18
AHAHHAH I said that with the orion v2 and here I am. There is no end game son!
+1

I think the only true end game for me is the hotswappable "Hammer Alps" 60% that I have. I think it's 1/3 due to the work I put into it, 1/3 due to the love it received, and 1/3 due to actually really enjoying the aesthetics and typing experience.

I think mine is a special case though. Endgames are mythical creatures. :))


-

The keyboards I'm buying now are more for fun builds and trying new things! The VE.A might share an endgame spot with that hotswappable Alps build though! Haha.

Thank you again for all your hard work Zefyr and for dealing with all the crazy fans of said hard work!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Karura on Wed, 03 February 2016, 04:12:54
Thanks for the specifications! I'm guessing that picture was taken by you? I really love the shot :thumb:
It's not me, It's just my camera did.
My skill sux, SO I BOUGHT VERY EXPENSIVE CAMERA.
Now I know by your post, WORTH IT.

Haha, it was definitely worth it, your photos turned out quite nice! Which camera and lens?!

I also bought a camera (D750 + few lens) recently so I can take nicer keyboard photos haha. :thumb:

I will try to take some photos (hopefully good ones) if I ever make the list. ;)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 04:22:42
Thanks for the specifications! I'm guessing that picture was taken by you? I really love the shot :thumb:
It's not me, It's just my camera did.
My skill sux, SO I BOUGHT VERY EXPENSIVE CAMERA.
Now I know by your post, WORTH IT.

Haha, it was definitely worth it, your photos turned out quite nice! Which camera and lens?!

I also bought a camera (D750 + few lens) recently so I can take nicer keyboard photos haha. :thumb:

I will try to take some photos (hopefully good ones) if I ever make the list. ;)

I use 6D + Sigma 24-70 EX lens.
My wife is always nagging me for taking pictures of keyboards.
Cause you know... These lines  "Sweetheart! I need this camera to take your photos and babies!"
Man, I even cannot believe she buys that line. hehehe.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Wed, 03 February 2016, 04:50:10
Thanks for the specifications! I'm guessing that picture was taken by you? I really love the shot :thumb:
It's not me, It's just my camera did.
My skill sux, SO I BOUGHT VERY EXPENSIVE CAMERA.
Now I know by your post, WORTH IT.

Haha, it was definitely worth it, your photos turned out quite nice! Which camera and lens?!

I also bought a camera (D750 + few lens) recently so I can take nicer keyboard photos haha. :thumb:

I will try to take some photos (hopefully good ones) if I ever make the list. ;)

I use 6D + Sigma 24-70 EX lens.
My wife is always nagging me for taking pictures of keyboards.
Cause you know... These lines  "Sweetheart! I need this camera to take your photos and babies!"
Man, I even cannot believe she buys that line. hehehe.

lol. Why not get her to hold the keyboard whilst you're taking the photos. Then you're doing both :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Wed, 03 February 2016, 04:52:12
Preparing a massive compilation of all the information we know so far ^-^
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Delirious on Wed, 03 February 2016, 08:23:24
Cherry or replicas for F Row -> EnjoyPBT dyesub
Alps or replicas for everything else -> AEKII keycaps.

Got it!!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: logomachy on Wed, 03 February 2016, 08:35:23
Cherry or replicas for F Row -> EnjoyPBT dyesub
Alps or replicas for everything else -> AEKII keycaps.

Got it!!

I had a similar idea.
Would need to go no plate or cut off the left end of the plate and I think that should work. (MX and Alps require different plates if you have not seen)

Looking at the design, it seems a plate is required. But having one of each version and cutting may work. Probably too much trouble though.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 08:43:32
Cherry or replicas for F Row -> EnjoyPBT dyesub
Alps or replicas for everything else -> AEKII keycaps.

Got it!!

Cherry or replicas for F Row -> EnjoyPBT dyesub
Alps or replicas for everything else -> AEKII keycaps.

Got it!!

I had a similar idea.
Would need to go no plate or cut off the left end of the plate and I think that should work. (MX and Alps require different plates if you have not seen)

Cherry or replicas for F Row -> EnjoyPBT dyesub
Alps or replicas for everything else -> AEKII keycaps.

Got it!!

I had a similar idea.
Would need to go no plate or cut off the left end of the plate and I think that should work. (MX and Alps require different plates if you have not seen)

You cannot remove mount plate of VE.A, it's not just for switch arrangement.
And I don't have plan to make mix-and-match switch plate for now.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Delirious on Wed, 03 February 2016, 08:43:57
Cherry or replicas for F Row -> EnjoyPBT dyesub
Alps or replicas for everything else -> AEKII keycaps.

Got it!!

Cherry or replicas for F Row -> EnjoyPBT dyesub
Alps or replicas for everything else -> AEKII keycaps.

Got it!!

I had a similar idea.
Would need to go no plate or cut off the left end of the plate and I think that should work. (MX and Alps require different plates if you have not seen)

Cherry or replicas for F Row -> EnjoyPBT dyesub
Alps or replicas for everything else -> AEKII keycaps.

Got it!!

I had a similar idea.
Would need to go no plate or cut off the left end of the plate and I think that should work. (MX and Alps require different plates if you have not seen)

You cannot remove mount plate of VE.A, it's not just for switch arrangement.
And I don't have plan to make mix-and-match switch plate for now.

Can I do some manual trimming for the plate? I really live AEK cap profile, but apple had to go out of their way to screw up the F row's key stems.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 08:50:56
Cherry or replicas for F Row -> EnjoyPBT dyesub
Alps or replicas for everything else -> AEKII keycaps.

Got it!!

I had a similar idea.
Would need to go no plate or cut off the left end of the plate and I think that should work. (MX and Alps require different plates if you have not seen)

Yea, definitely need some manual trimming for the plate. Then again nothing is impossible for the love of Alps. I also choose this path because I really live AEK cap profile, but apple had to go out of their way to screw up the F row's key stems.

If you don't mind keycap print messed-up, AEK + M0116 Keycap combination is just fit in VE.A.
Since there's no 1.75 shift on Apple caps. just one 1.75 command key from M0116 bottom row.
So, If you are planning to use AEK caps, you probably needs M0116 also.

here's what it looks like
(http://i.imgur.com/MI5sERk.jpg)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:17:32
The creator:

Vermillion or zefyr (ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.) is a Korean based keyboard creator, making the following: Vergo type.T, alpetit, alpetit II, VE.A with Vergo type.T-II. He is a member of the KBDLAB and has always been interested in building "endgame" ergonomic keyboards.

"Vergo" is a mixture of Vermillion and Ergonomic. The VE.A is an updated version of all the ergonomic boards he has designed and made. This one comes with a stand so that it is more comfortable to type on, but it seems optional.

More
History:

The first round was private, as it was mainly a test of quality and for the production time scale. He kept it to people that he talked to very often, so that he could get good feedback about how the board held up. Last round was very personal, and had custom engraving and numbered parts but this won't be involved this time.

He has ran a few group buys before, and this is the first international one. There is already a lot of hype around the VE.A, so spots will fill up quickly.

Specification of VE.A:
  • Four pieces of Aluminium Armor (Aluminium 6061), Anodized
  • Two pieces of Poly-Carbonate Frame
  • Two pieces of 1.5T STS Switch mounting plate
  • Two pieces of 0.8T STS Laser marked plate
  • Matching 3M urethane bumpon included
FAQ:

When will this happen?
No date is set in stone, but late February is a possibility.

What switches can the PCB take?
MX and Alps.

What connection links the two parts?
SATA.

Is there a list to get one of these boards?
Originally, there was. But due to the amount of interest there isn't one anymore.

What is the expected cost?
$400-450. There is Korean tax too, which is 10% + 3.4%.

How many can be made?
First mention was 30, second was 50. Somewhere between there.

What colors are available?
Black, silver & possibly dark gray. This may change.

What other options will be available?
Acrylic stand & pre-soldering will be included as an option.

What firmware will be used?
BootMapperClient (http://blog.winkeyless.kr/181) by winkeyless.kr

Gallery:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Yyw4Jh1.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/p6duEU0.png)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/bCmCyW0.png)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/P0UazAE.png)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/wCTEdsb.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/6520/770/286/003/299997b12017e3bb2a1737d1a9f41a1f.JPG)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3ULbcux.jpg)


Other links:

VE.A GB post (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152371)
Initial Sample (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3091358)
Final Sample (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152205)
Vergo Stand (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3286770&mid=board_etc)

I've put all the information into the OP from this thread. Included a FAQ from what I know myself. Zefyr is allowing us to keep this thread open even though he's locked the IC thread. If you want me to credit and/or add and/or remove anything then PM me.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:58:11
The creator:

Vermillion or zefyr (ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.) is a Korean based keyboard creator, making the following: Vergo type.T, alpetit, alpetit II, VE.A with Vergo type.T-II. He is a member of the KBDLAB and has always been interested in building "endgame" ergonomic keyboards.

"Vergo" is a mixture of Vermillion and Ergonomic. The VE.A is an updated version of all the ergonomic boards he has designed and made. This one comes with a stand so that it is more comfortable to type on, but it seems optional.

More
History:

The first round was private, as it was mainly a test of quality and for the production time scale. He kept it to people that he talked to very often, so that he could get good feedback about how the board held up. Last round was very personal, and had custom engraving and numbered parts but this won't be involved this time.

He has ran a few group buys before, and this is the first international one. There is already a lot of hype around the VE.A, so spots will fill up quickly.

Specification of VE.A:
  • Four pieces of Aluminium Armor (Aluminium 6061), Anodized
  • Two pieces of Poly-Carbonate Frame
  • Two pieces of 1.5T STS Switch mounting plate
  • Two pieces of 0.8T STS Laser marked plate
  • Matching 3M urethane bumpon included
FAQ:

When will this happen?
No date is set in stone, but late February is a possibility.

What switches can the PCB take?
MX and Alps.

What connection links the two parts?
SATA.

Is there a list to get one of these boards?
Originally, there was. But due to the amount of interest there isn't one anymore.

What is the expected cost?
$400-450. There is Korean tax too, which is 10% + 3.4%.

How many can be made?
First mention was 30, second was 50. Somewhere between there.

What colors are available?
Black, silver & possibly dark gray. This may change.

What other options will be available?
Acrylic stand & pre-soldering will be included as an option.

What firmware will be used?
BootMapperClient (http://blog.winkeyless.kr/181) by winkeyless.kr

Gallery:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Yyw4Jh1.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/p6duEU0.png)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/bCmCyW0.png)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/P0UazAE.png)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/wCTEdsb.jpg)


Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/6520/770/286/003/299997b12017e3bb2a1737d1a9f41a1f.JPG)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3ULbcux.jpg)


Other links:

VE.A GB post (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152371)
Initial Sample (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3091358)
Final Sample (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152205)
Vergo Stand (http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3286770&mid=board_etc)

I've put all the information into the OP from this thread. Included a FAQ from what I know myself. Zefyr is allowing us to keep this thread open even though he's locked the IC thread. If you want me to credit and/or add and/or remove anything then PM me.

Thanks xondat, makes the information a little easier to find and look over.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Bucky on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:37:21
I will still jump on this if I get the chance, but I think this would would look even cleaner with less keys (mainly the cluster on the left, which does bring up the issue of how to balance the right half). I would love a layout with fewer keys on the bottom row also.

Definitely the most interesting keyboard I have seen in a while, excited to see the GB :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: havenlau on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:28:47
If I hadn't been sick the past two days and missed this thread :'( Oh and also octagon v2 by 8 entries  :-X

Welp I guess my wallet is safe for another month  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:42:26
If I hadn't been sick the past two days and missed this thread :'( Oh and also octagon v2 by 8 entries  :-X

Welp I guess my wallet is safe for another month  :rolleyes:

GB isn't open at all, this is just a discussion thread.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: havenlau on Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:19:08
Yeah I know, but from what I understand following this thread there is already a "list", and that it was filled up almost instantaneously. I would totally be interested to hop on this beauty if there is a chance though.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:21:17
Yeah I know, but from what I understand following this thread there is already a "list", and that it was filled up almost instantaneously. I would totally be interested to hop on this beauty if there is a chance though.

The "list" is just an interest check in the literal sense of the term: those who are interested in his keyboard. That is, those who like his keyboard and are interested in his work, not necessarily purchasing one.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:33:14
Yeah I know, but from what I understand following this thread there is already a "list", and that it was filled up almost instantaneously. I would totally be interested to hop on this beauty if there is a chance though.

And, Really, You should not think "the list" as pass for joining.
I already mentioned several times (*soap*)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:34:50
Yeah I know, but from what I understand following this thread there is already a "list", and that it was filled up almost instantaneously. I would totally be interested to hop on this beauty if there is a chance though.

The list has been abandoned. It started as people that he talked to, then people than asked him and then it got scraped.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:43:48
Yeah I know, but from what I understand following this thread there is already a "list", and that it was filled up almost instantaneously. I would totally be interested to hop on this beauty if there is a chance though.

The list has been abandoned. It started as people that he talked to, then people than asked him and then it got scraped.

Huh...

He stated a number of times on the Interest Check thread that he would lock it after he believed it to be "too much" for him to handle, which is well within his right to do -- and not surprisingly it quickly got to the point that he had to.

While he has mentioned several times that making it on the "list" does not guarantee that you will be able to purchase a VE.A -- there was no indication that making it on the list due to early interest will not be a factor in his decision-making process.

perhaps this is a new development that you derived from a personal communication w/ Vermillion?

If that is the case......#VE.ATherapyNeeded  :confused:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:49:10
So, I'll not listing anymore. It hit almost 100. Waaaaaay to many.

I'll pick application on my own way.

I locked IC thread just because "the silly list" thing I have mentioned.
That maybe a disappointing for someone, so as preventing action, I locked IC thread.

I may of misunderstood it, but these two quotes together make it seem like there's no point.

I've PM'd him for official confirmation.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:04:43
Ahhh, i see what you are saying -- No need for confirmation -- wouldn't want to burden/overwhelm him further  :eek:

I'm certain I am one among many others that want clarity in order to sate our anxiety levels over being chosen.

But we'll have to sit & wait for when he is adequately prepared/wants to divulge that info
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:46:12
Ahhh, i see what you are saying -- No need for confirmation -- wouldn't want to burden/overwhelm him further  :eek:

I'm certain I am one among many others that want clarity in order to sate our anxiety levels over being chosen.

But we'll have to sit & wait for when he is adequately prepared/wants to divulge that info

OK guys, this is how it went so far, and will be.

First of all, when I'm a total stranger here, I used the word "you are on my list." like... a joke. you know - "HEY!!! YOU ARE ON MY LIST!!!' as a threat when a character on TV show gets mad.
I just want to be friendly and be a funny foreign guy. (Wow I'm a foreigner here~ feel weird.)
It's obvious that I used that phrase wrong. Maybe I should not watch US TV (like BigBangTheory and so on) anymore :)
I wanted to make friends who are interested in my works
And being friend that I really don't want turn down somebody.
That why I made my list. It's clear now? It's just my buddie list :) (that now I don't know why I kept that.)
But somewhere I don't know, it changed! like its some pass for pre-join ticket! even I didn't realized that.
So many PMs requesting "get me in the list", posting about "list"...
So frankly, I got a little scared, stressed :). That's why I closed IC thread.
I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to.

OK, If I have to be official, I'll put it this way.
I'll try not to turn down application of friends, I'm no machine. I cares. I cares my friends.
But there's no "list" anymore.
This means "let me in your list" won't be the way in the GB.
After all, somebody can takes this like bragging, thinking 'who the hell this guys thinks he is?'
Believe me, I know I'm not. I don't have any purpose to talk myself up.
Please, don't be disappointed, I have limited amount of off-work time.
This is not my job, it's my hobby just like you guys.

And plus one. I'll unlock IC, that doesn't mean I'll append my list or something. I just love to look that thread grows, hehe.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: radio_killah on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:50:06
Ahhh, i see what you are saying -- No need for confirmation -- wouldn't want to burden/overwhelm him further  :eek:

I'm certain I am one among many others that want clarity in order to sate our anxiety levels over being chosen.

But we'll have to sit & wait for when he is adequately prepared/wants to divulge that info

OK guys, this is how it went so far, and will be.

First of all, when I'm a total stranger here, I used the word "you are on my list." like... a joke. you know - "HEY!!! YOU ARE ON MY LIST!!!' as a threat when a character on TV show gets mad.
I just want to be friendly and be a funny foreign guy. (Wow I'm a foreigner here~ feel weird.)
It's obvious that I used that phrase wrong. Maybe I should not watch US TV (like BigBangTheory and so on) anymore :)
I wanted to make friends who are interested in my works
And being friend that I really don't want turn down somebody.
That why I made my list. It's clear now? It's just my buddie list :) (that now I don't know why I kept that.)
But somewhere I don't know, it changed! like its some pass for pre-join ticket! even I didn't realized that.
So many PMs requesting "get me in the list", posting about "list"...
So frankly, I got a little scared, stressed :). That's why I closed IC thread.
I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to.

OK, If I have to be official, I'll put it this way.
I'll try not to turn down application of friends, I'm no machine. I cares. I cares my friends.
But there's no "list" anymore.
This means "let me in your list" won't be the way in the GB.
After all, somebody can takes this like bragging, thinking 'who the hell this guys thinks he is?'
Believe me, I know I'm not. I don't have any purpose to talk myself up.
Please, don't be disappointed, I have limited amount of off-work time.
This is not my job, it's my hobby just like you guys.

And plus one. I'll unlock IC, that doesn't mean I'll append my list or something. I just love to look that thread grows, hehe.

Sounds good to me. Thanks for explaining your thoughts and reasoning. Hopefully everyone who wants to be a part of this group buy can participate.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:50:45
lol Welcome to Western audiences, zefyr!

Glad to have you here, and I look forward to seeing your amazing work. I've seen more of your boards and what I love most is seeing the different cases people have put them in.

One question, though: Why the left cluster? It seems redundant considering the rest of the board has the necessary keys. Or is it to add a sense of equilibrium to the two halves?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:51:53
Ahhh, i see what you are saying -- No need for confirmation -- wouldn't want to burden/overwhelm him further  :eek:

I'm certain I am one among many others that want clarity in order to sate our anxiety levels over being chosen.

But we'll have to sit & wait for when he is adequately prepared/wants to divulge that info

OK guys, this is how it went so far, and will be.

First of all, when I'm a total stranger here, I used the word "you are on my list." like... a joke. you know - "HEY!!! YOU ARE ON MY LIST!!!' as a threat when a character on TV show gets mad.
I just want to be friendly and be a funny foreign guy. (Wow I'm a foreigner here~ feel weird.)
It's obvious that I used that phrase wrong. Maybe I should not watch US TV (like BigBangTheory and so on) anymore :)
I wanted to make friends who are interested in my works
And being friend that I really don't want turn down somebody.
That why I made my list. It's clear now? It's just my buddie list :) (that now I don't know why I kept that.)
But somewhere I don't know, it changed! like its some pass for pre-join ticket! even I didn't realized that.
So many PMs requesting "get me in the list", posting about "list"...
So frankly, I got a little scared, stressed :). That's why I closed IC thread.
I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to.

OK, If I have to be official, I'll put it this way.
I'll try not to turn down application of friends, I'm no machine. I cares. I cares my friends.
But there's no "list" anymore.
This means "let me in your list" won't be the way in the GB.
After all, somebody can takes this like bragging, thinking 'who the hell this guys thinks he is?'
Believe me, I know I'm not. I don't have any purpose to talk myself up.
Please, don't be disappointed, I have limited amount of off-work time.
This is not my job, it's my hobby just like you guys.

And plus one. I'll unlock IC, that doesn't mean I'll append my list or something. I just love to look that thread grows, hehe.

Thanks for the update and for clarifying everything about "the list" for us.  I would love to get in and have a chance to purchase this board but if it doesn't happen it's completely understandable, as we all like to enjoy our off-work time and expecting someone to ditch that to produce a bunch of keyboards would be unreasonable :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:58:28
Ahhh, i see what you are saying -- No need for confirmation -- wouldn't want to burden/overwhelm him further  :eek:

I'm certain I am one among many others that want clarity in order to sate our anxiety levels over being chosen.

But we'll have to sit & wait for when he is adequately prepared/wants to divulge that info

OK guys, this is how it went so far, and will be.

First of all, when I'm a total stranger here, I used the word "you are on my list." like... a joke. you know - "HEY!!! YOU ARE ON MY LIST!!!' as a threat when a character on TV show gets mad.
I just want to be friendly and be a funny foreign guy. (Wow I'm a foreigner here~ feel weird.)
It's obvious that I used that phrase wrong. Maybe I should not watch US TV (like BigBangTheory and so on) anymore :)
I wanted to make friends who are interested in my works
And being friend that I really don't want turn down somebody.
That why I made my list. It's clear now? It's just my buddie list :) (that now I don't know why I kept that.)
But somewhere I don't know, it changed! like its some pass for pre-join ticket! even I didn't realized that.
So many PMs requesting "get me in the list", posting about "list"...
So frankly, I got a little scared, stressed :). That's why I closed IC thread.
I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to.

OK, If I have to be official, I'll put it this way.
I'll try not to turn down application of friends, I'm no machine. I cares. I cares my friends.
But there's no "list" anymore.
This means "let me in your list" won't be the way in the GB.
After all, somebody can takes this like bragging, thinking 'who the hell this guys thinks he is?'
Believe me, I know I'm not. I don't have any purpose to talk myself up.
Please, don't be disappointed, I have limited amount of off-work time.
This is not my job, it's my hobby just like you guys.

And plus one. I'll unlock IC, that doesn't mean I'll append my list or something. I'm just really happy to look that thread growing, hehe.

No worries, Vermillion! I (and many others here on the site im sure) understand how it can be overwhelming to reach out to a different market. I don't
think anyone expects you to be a machine in the least ! I think your passion for the hobby is quite evident and we do all appreciate that. Also please dont feel anxiety because you are a foreigner. As you noted before Geekhack is quite international, and, from my limited exprience, its members are very friendly!

Apologies if any of my/other responses concerning your selection process is mistaken for some sort of aggression, that wasn't the intention ~
Groupbuys & limited runs of all sorts are run on this website, and I believe many of the members are well aware that there is no guarantee when it comes to being included! No-will is ever harbored on account of not being able to partake! (there are a number of "therapy" threads that serve for the sole purpose of consoling one another in a missed inclusion, even)

Keep doing what you do!  :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:01:48
lol Welcome to Western audiences, zefyr!

Glad to have you here, and I look forward to seeing your amazing work. I've seen more of your boards and what I love most is seeing the different cases people have put them in.

One question, though: Why the left cluster? It seems redundant considering the rest of the board has the necessary keys. Or is it to add a sense of equilibrium to the two halves?

equilibrium, exactly. I have obsession about it, what you guys say that in English? OCD seem to much for my case since I don't need therapy. :)
Plus, it can be used as quick-macro key or any key you want. you can remap it to any key you want.

Like this, I type my e-mail address with one key. change my keyboards LED color when I feel moody.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Sent on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:04:13
Ahhh, i see what you are saying -- No need for confirmation -- wouldn't want to burden/overwhelm him further  :eek:

I'm certain I am one among many others that want clarity in order to sate our anxiety levels over being chosen.

But we'll have to sit & wait for when he is adequately prepared/wants to divulge that info

OK guys, this is how it went so far, and will be.

First of all, when I'm a total stranger here, I used the word "you are on my list." like... a joke. you know - "HEY!!! YOU ARE ON MY LIST!!!' as a threat when a character on TV show gets mad.
I just want to be friendly and be a funny foreign guy. (Wow I'm a foreigner here~ feel weird.)
It's obvious that I used that phrase wrong. Maybe I should not watch US TV (like BigBangTheory and so on) anymore :)
I wanted to make friends who are interested in my works
And being friend that I really don't want turn down somebody.
That why I made my list. It's clear now? It's just my buddie list :) (that now I don't know why I kept that.)
But somewhere I don't know, it changed! like its some pass for pre-join ticket! even I didn't realized that.
So many PMs requesting "get me in the list", posting about "list"...
So frankly, I got a little scared, stressed :). That's why I closed IC thread.
I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to.

OK, If I have to be official, I'll put it this way.
I'll try not to turn down application of friends, I'm no machine. I cares. I cares my friends.
But there's no "list" anymore.
This means "let me in your list" won't be the way in the GB.
After all, somebody can takes this like bragging, thinking 'who the hell this guys thinks he is?'
Believe me, I know I'm not. I don't have any purpose to talk myself up.
Please, don't be disappointed, I have limited amount of off-work time.
This is not my job, it's my hobby just like you guys.

And plus one. I'll unlock IC, that doesn't mean I'll append my list or something. I just love to look that thread grows, hehe.

Appreciate the clarification and transparency. :thumb:  The words gets thrown around a lot but real life is definitely more important than this hobby. 
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:05:02
Ahhh, i see what you are saying -- No need for confirmation -- wouldn't want to burden/overwhelm him further  :eek:

I'm certain I am one among many others that want clarity in order to sate our anxiety levels over being chosen.

But we'll have to sit & wait for when he is adequately prepared/wants to divulge that info

OK guys, this is how it went so far, and will be.

First of all, when I'm a total stranger here, I used the word "you are on my list." like... a joke. you know - "HEY!!! YOU ARE ON MY LIST!!!' as a threat when a character on TV show gets mad.
I just want to be friendly and be a funny foreign guy. (Wow I'm a foreigner here~ feel weird.)
It's obvious that I used that phrase wrong. Maybe I should not watch US TV (like BigBangTheory and so on) anymore :)
I wanted to make friends who are interested in my works
And being friend that I really don't want turn down somebody.
That why I made my list. It's clear now? It's just my buddie list :) (that now I don't know why I kept that.)
But somewhere I don't know, it changed! like its some pass for pre-join ticket! even I didn't realized that.
So many PMs requesting "get me in the list", posting about "list"...
So frankly, I got a little scared, stressed :). That's why I closed IC thread.
I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to.

OK, If I have to be official, I'll put it this way.
I'll try not to turn down application of friends, I'm no machine. I cares. I cares my friends.
But there's no "list" anymore.
This means "let me in your list" won't be the way in the GB.
After all, somebody can takes this like bragging, thinking 'who the hell this guys thinks he is?'
Believe me, I know I'm not. I don't have any purpose to talk myself up.
Please, don't be disappointed, I have limited amount of off-work time.
This is not my job, it's my hobby just like you guys.

And plus one. I'll unlock IC, that doesn't mean I'll append my list or something. I just love to look that thread grows, hehe.

Thanks for the update zefyr. Please do not feel obligated to make as many boards as needed and overburden yourself. Make the amount of boards that you're comfortable doing and if all is well then you can have a second round to please more people. There's always sales that we miss out on here whether it's artisans, keyboards, etc. We'll deal with it and move on. :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: dohbot on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:06:25
I am so excited to see how this turns out. This is just the coolest keyboard I have seen ever! I love everything about it. The layout is genius and it accepts keysets! I am so excited and I will definitely be watching this!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:06:33
Apologies if any of my/other responses concerning your selection process is mistaken for some sort of aggression, that wasn't the intention ~
Groupbuys & limited runs of all sorts are run on this website, and I believe many of the members are well aware that there is no guarantee when it comes to being included!

None taken :)
As I mentioned before, I'm just happy. may be too happy that's why I felt I'm scared. (dumb, isn't it? haha)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: mobbo on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:11:55
Ahhh, i see what you are saying -- No need for confirmation -- wouldn't want to burden/overwhelm him further  :eek:

I'm certain I am one among many others that want clarity in order to sate our anxiety levels over being chosen.

But we'll have to sit & wait for when he is adequately prepared/wants to divulge that info

OK guys, this is how it went so far, and will be.

First of all, when I'm a total stranger here, I used the word "you are on my list." like... a joke. you know - "HEY!!! YOU ARE ON MY LIST!!!' as a threat when a character on TV show gets mad.
I just want to be friendly and be a funny foreign guy. (Wow I'm a foreigner here~ feel weird.)
It's obvious that I used that phrase wrong. Maybe I should not watch US TV (like BigBangTheory and so on) anymore :)
I wanted to make friends who are interested in my works
And being friend that I really don't want turn down somebody.
That why I made my list. It's clear now? It's just my buddie list :) (that now I don't know why I kept that.)
But somewhere I don't know, it changed! like its some pass for pre-join ticket! even I didn't realized that.
So many PMs requesting "get me in the list", posting about "list"...
So frankly, I got a little scared, stressed :). That's why I closed IC thread.
I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to.

OK, If I have to be official, I'll put it this way.
I'll try not to turn down application of friends, I'm no machine. I cares. I cares my friends.
But there's no "list" anymore.
This means "let me in your list" won't be the way in the GB.
After all, somebody can takes this like bragging, thinking 'who the hell this guys thinks he is?'
Believe me, I know I'm not. I don't have any purpose to talk myself up.
Please, don't be disappointed, I have limited amount of off-work time.
This is not my job, it's my hobby just like you guys.

And plus one. I'll unlock IC, that doesn't mean I'll append my list or something. I just love to look that thread grows, hehe.

Hahaha I like your sense of humor man. Please put me on your buddy list  :p

Don't let our insane amount of interest deter you. Just do this however you want to, with the least amount of stress possible, we are all just grateful for the opportunity, and we want this to keep being fun for you too.  :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ika on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:13:22
AHAHHAH I said that with the orion v2 and here I am. There is no end game son!

the struggle is real :P you wanted that orion so badly haha
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:16:05
Ahhh, i see what you are saying -- No need for confirmation -- wouldn't want to burden/overwhelm him further  :eek:

I'm certain I am one among many others that want clarity in order to sate our anxiety levels over being chosen.

But we'll have to sit & wait for when he is adequately prepared/wants to divulge that info

OK guys, this is how it went so far, and will be.

First of all, when I'm a total stranger here, I used the word "you are on my list." like... a joke. you know - "HEY!!! YOU ARE ON MY LIST!!!' as a threat when a character on TV show gets mad.
I just want to be friendly and be a funny foreign guy. (Wow I'm a foreigner here~ feel weird.)
It's obvious that I used that phrase wrong. Maybe I should not watch US TV (like BigBangTheory and so on) anymore :)
I wanted to make friends who are interested in my works
And being friend that I really don't want turn down somebody.
That why I made my list. It's clear now? It's just my buddie list :) (that now I don't know why I kept that.)
But somewhere I don't know, it changed! like its some pass for pre-join ticket! even I didn't realized that.
So many PMs requesting "get me in the list", posting about "list"...
So frankly, I got a little scared, stressed :). That's why I closed IC thread.
I have a little problem to take things seriously more than I have to.

OK, If I have to be official, I'll put it this way.
I'll try not to turn down application of friends, I'm no machine. I cares. I cares my friends.
But there's no "list" anymore.
This means "let me in your list" won't be the way in the GB.
After all, somebody can takes this like bragging, thinking 'who the hell this guys thinks he is?'
Believe me, I know I'm not. I don't have any purpose to talk myself up.
Please, don't be disappointed, I have limited amount of off-work time.
This is not my job, it's my hobby just like you guys.

And plus one. I'll unlock IC, that doesn't mean I'll append my list or something. I just love to look that thread grows, hehe.

Hahaha I like your sense of humor man. Please put me on your buddy list  :p

Don't let our insane amount of interest deter you. Just do this however you want to, with the least amount of stress possible, we are all just grateful for the opportunity, and we want this to keep being fun for you too.  :thumb:

Oh man, there's actual "buddie list" on GH.
Wow, I made second dumb expression.
Oopsy, I did it again~
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: mobbo on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:19:25

Oh man, there's actual "buddie list" on GH.
Wow, I made second dumb expression.
Oopsy, I did it again~

Don't worry, I'm just joking  :-*
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:24:39
hate to be that guy but...if there's no list how are people chosen? :-X
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: mobbo on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:28:28
hate to be that guy but...if there's no list how are people chosen? :-X

there is a list of options on how to choose people
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:32:07
hate to be that guy but...if there's no list how are people chosen? :-X

there is a list of options on how to choose people

How about the first people to have posted in this thread get a crack at it :p
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:34:10
hate to be that guy but...if there's no list how are people chosen? :-X

there is a list of options on how to choose people

How about the first people to have posted in this thread get a crack at it :p

Zefyr will decide on what he wants to do. Just because we were coincidentally on the same time the the thread was posted and commented first does not mean that the rest should get screwed.

Sadly no matter what Zefyr does there will be somebody to complain and whine how they didn't get a board.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:40:07
Sadly no matter what Zefyr does there will be somebody to complain and whine how they didn't get a board.

Sadly yes, there's always  :-[
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:46:43
Sadly no matter what Zefyr does there will be somebody to complain and whine how they didn't get a board.

I'm going to complain and whine even if I get one.  >:D
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:47:28
Sadly no matter what Zefyr does there will be somebody to complain and whine how they didn't get a board.

I'm going to complain and whine even if I get one.  >:D

We can all complain and whine together! :p
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:50:00
hate to be that guy but...if there's no list how are people chosen? :-X

there is a list of options on how to choose people

How about the first people to have posted in this thread get a crack at it :p

Zefyr will decide on what he wants to do. Just because we were coincidentally on the same time the the thread was posted and commented first does not mean that the rest should get screwed.

Sadly no matter what Zefyr does there will be somebody to complain and whine how they didn't get a board.

I mean there's always disappointment when someone is left out and sees others enjoying something that they wished they could've got on in. That's very understandable.

To start drama over it is less understandable and to cause a commotion is no.

But I mean, I totally understand that feeling of having missed out.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:52:52
hate to be that guy but...if there's no list how are people chosen? :-X

there is a list of options on how to choose people

How about the first people to have posted in this thread get a crack at it :p

Zefyr will decide on what he wants to do. Just because we were coincidentally on the same time the the thread was posted and commented first does not mean that the rest should get screwed.

Sadly no matter what Zefyr does there will be somebody to complain and whine how they didn't get a board.

I mean there's always disappointment when someone is left out and sees others enjoying something that they wished they could've got on in. That's very understandable.

To start drama over it is less understandable and to cause a commotion is no.

But I mean, I totally understand that feeling of having missed out.

I completely understand, nobody likes being left out. If it was possible then I'd love the board for everybody to have a board but it's unrealistic for most cases.

I'm not going to lie I get disappointed when I miss out on stuff too but I don't let it get myself down and put into a bad mood. There's no point dwelling over it, just move on and look for something new. :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:53:29
If I keep posting in these threads then I'm going to raise awareness for this keyboard.
I should stop posting so my chances are better.

Or maybe I can bribe Hoff with nudes and get him to hide this thread.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:53:33
I actually have an option to make it. I can hire people.
As I mentioned before, my factory's capacity is big enough everyone.
It's just my packaging, checking, shipping time that I'm short of.

But,
In that another way, It cannot be the same thing it used be.
a limited, somewhat rare, hard-to-get. Somebody (including me) want that as "Feature" of a board.
If many people thinks like that, I have to limit quantity.

I'm struggling with myself. Rarity? Practical? where I should go on this way?
As I talked with some friends, my little wish is "anyone who types" should uses split-style keyboard. not just VE series.
If that time comes, I can get good product in decent price. right? To be honest here, VE series? too expensive, even for me.

So, how do you think guys?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:54:30
Ya it's funny because I felt that way when I missed out on the Octagon GB, but now that 2 people dropped out I was able to get a chance to get in. Now this board may go to the GB phase, so I have some tough decisions to make. And I'm saving for a new car lol
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:55:44
I actually have an option to make it. I can hire people.
As I mentioned before, my factory's capacity is big enough everyone.
It's just my packaging, checking, shipping time that I'm short of.

But,
In that another way, It cannot be the same thing it used be.
a limited, somewhat rare, hard-to-get. Somebody (including me) want that as "Feature" of a board.
If many people thinks like that, I have to limit quantity.

I'm struggling with myself. Rarity? Practical? where I should go on this way?
As I talked with some friends, my little wish is "anyone who types" should uses split-style keyboard. not just VE series.
If that time comes, I can get good product in decent price. right? To be honest here, VE series? too expensive, even for me.

So, how do you think guys?

If you want you can ship the keyboards in bulk to one person here in North America and they can handle shipping for you.
Most people here also don't like making a board limited in quantity because that's just bragging rights at the expense of those who are unlucky.

If you can hire people to accommodate more orders then you can do so.
I'm just worried that you misjudge your own capability to make every order possible.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:56:19
Ya it's funny because I felt that way when I missed out on the Octagon GB, but now that 2 people dropped out I was able to get a chance to get in. Now this board has been slated for a GB, so I have some tough decisions to make. And I'm saving for a new car lol

Who said anything about a GB?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:58:07
I actually have an option to make it. I can hire people.
As I mentioned before, my factory's capacity is big enough everyone.
It's just my packaging, checking, shipping time that I'm short of.

But,
In that another way, It cannot be the same thing it used be.
a limited, somewhat rare, hard-to-get. Somebody (including me) want that as "Feature" of a board.
If many people thinks like that, I have to limit quantity.

I'm struggling with myself. Rarity? Practical? where I should go on this way?
As I talked with some friends, my little wish is "anyone who types" should uses split-style keyboard. not just VE series.
If that time comes, I can get good product in decent price. right? To be honest here, VE series? too expensive, even for me.

So, how do you think guys?

I can understand the rarity factor but I personally don't care about it. I just want a good board to type on. :)

That being said it is your design and do with it however you please. If you want to limit the quantity then so be it. When there is less quantities that generally means a better quality control for each board and that they can get shipped out faster. Work and family always come first before this hobby so do whatever you are comfortable with. :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:59:25
I actually have an option to make it. I can hire people.
As I mentioned before, my factory's capacity is big enough everyone.
It's just my packaging, checking, shipping time that I'm short of.

But,
In that another way, It cannot be the same thing it used be.
a limited, somewhat rare, hard-to-get. Somebody (including me) want that as "Feature" of a board.
If many people thinks like that, I have to limit quantity.

I'm struggling with myself. Rarity? Practical? where I should go on this way?
As I talked with some friends, my little wish is "anyone who types" should uses split-style keyboard. not just VE series.
If that time comes, I can get good product in decent price. right? To be honest here, VE series? too expensive, even for me.

So, how do you think guys?

Well rarity was never a decision I take into consideration when purchasing boards, but I can see how it is for some people. And I if we can get in as many people as we can to get in on a 1 off GB round that itself will make the board rare. Which can open a lot for you designing new boards and what not.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:01:51
Ya it's funny because I felt that way when I missed out on the Octagon GB, but now that 2 people dropped out I was able to get a chance to get in. Now this board has been slated for a GB, so I have some tough decisions to make. And I'm saving for a new car lol

Who said anything about a GB?

Well it's not set in stone but if I remember correctly zefyr originally said he was limiting the amount of boards to what he was comfortable with, which is around 30, and that it may happen late Feb.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Karura on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:02:53
I actually have an option to make it. I can hire people.
As I mentioned before, my factory's capacity is big enough everyone.
It's just my packaging, checking, shipping time that I'm short of.

But,
In that another way, It cannot be the same thing it used be.
a limited, somewhat rare, hard-to-get. Somebody (including me) want that as "Feature" of a board.
If many people thinks like that, I have to limit quantity.

I'm struggling with myself. Rarity? Practical? where I should go on this way?
As I talked with some friends, my little wish is "anyone who types" should uses split-style keyboard. not just VE series.
If that time comes, I can get good product in decent price. right? To be honest here, VE series? too expensive, even for me.

So, how do you think guys?

Honestly, I feel that everyone would prefer to have a more special product that you have put together for us.

With someone helping you pack, you will be able to sell more units and process them, but at the same time, VE.A will kind of lose its individuality/exclusiveness, BUT, it will still be a damn special keyboard, as long as the design and materials used are still of the best quality, I don't think people will be disappointed.

My recommendation? Perhaps it might be a good idea to do this in batches.
Another great member of the keyboard community on both kbdlab and GH, Leeku, ran Compact SQ by 50 units cutoff at a time.

Maybe you can consider making 30-50 QTY each GB, take your time to finish it, and once you are done and take your vacation/relaxation, you can run another GB. :thumb:

This way, each VE.A will still have 100% of its original uniqueness and rarity, and you will not be overworked. :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:07:08
The way I think about it, even if there are 200 of these keyboards out there, in a community of 100,000+ lurkers and active members (borrowing numbers from Reddit, so it's obviously much more than that worldwide), it would still be quite rare.  ;)  But that is not a deciding factor for me.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:08:58
If I can have a board and nobody else, that's fine with me. So long as I get one. There will be some people mad, but at least the exclusivity factor is still there.









;)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Karura on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:09:33
Another benefit I might add is that if you do it in rounds, you can perhaps even update/revise the design, if there is anything you would like to change about it. :)

It's already an awesome design, and I completely love the combination of PC and Alu, it's just that personally I tend to tweak my designs and things... it never stops!

Yet another benefit for buyers is that, if we have a lower QTY each time, this just means Vermillion will be able to spend more time QC, because with a larger QTY, you always have to worry about more QC issues, and time is a finite resource.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:16:18
Another benefit I might add is that if you do it in rounds, you can perhaps even update/revise the design, if there is anything you would like to change about it. :)

It's already an awesome design, and I completely love the combination of PC and Alu, it's just that personally I tend to tweak my designs and things... it never stops!

Yet another benefit for buyers is that, if we have a lower QTY each time, this just means Vermillion will be able to spend more time QC, because with a larger QTY, you always have to worry about more QC issues, and time is a finite resource.

Well I think zefyr doesn't want a lot boards floating around and since he has little time to handle the logistics of shipping and what not, I doubt breaking into batches would help. I think if we can get someone to help him out with the shipping and logistics a 1 off GB what be nice.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:20:35
Another benefit I might add is that if you do it in rounds, you can perhaps even update/revise the design, if there is anything you would like to change about it. :)

It's already an awesome design, and I completely love the combination of PC and Alu, it's just that personally I tend to tweak my designs and things... it never stops!

Yet another benefit for buyers is that, if we have a lower QTY each time, this just means Vermillion will be able to spend more time QC, because with a larger QTY, you always have to worry about more QC issues, and time is a finite resource.

Well I think zefyr doesn't want a lot boards floating around and since he has little time to handle the logistics of shipping and what not, I doubt breaking into batches would help. I think if we can get someone to help him out with the shipping and logistics a 1 off GB what be nice.

How would it make it more boards floating around? He could run a GB with 200 boards or 4 smaller ones with 50 boards each(random numbers for example). It's better to run it in small batches to maintain quality and be able to ship it out in a reasonable time. Also running it in smaller batches, like Karura said, would help zefyr in making revisions to the board to make it even better.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Karura on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:22:39
Another benefit I might add is that if you do it in rounds, you can perhaps even update/revise the design, if there is anything you would like to change about it. :)

It's already an awesome design, and I completely love the combination of PC and Alu, it's just that personally I tend to tweak my designs and things... it never stops!

Yet another benefit for buyers is that, if we have a lower QTY each time, this just means Vermillion will be able to spend more time QC, because with a larger QTY, you always have to worry about more QC issues, and time is a finite resource.

Well I think zefyr doesn't want a lot boards floating around and since he has little time to handle the logistics of shipping and what not, I doubt breaking into batches would help. I think if we can get someone to help him out with the shipping and logistics a 1 off GB what be nice.

I'm not sure if I completely agree with you. If anything, breaking it down into batches really allows him more control over the amount of time he wants to spend.

Less QTY = less time required, spread over a few months (let's say 4-6 months).
More QTY = more time required, need to hire someone, etc.

There is no debate that it is a much larger commitment to have to make 100-200 keyboards over 6 months, with hired help, than 30-50 keyboards over 6 months. (Note, I am using arbitrary numbers for the time required to produce and put together VE.A kits just for comparison's sake).
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:25:41
I actually have an option to make it. I can hire people.
As I mentioned before, my factory's capacity is big enough everyone.
It's just my packaging, checking, shipping time that I'm short of.

But,
In that another way, It cannot be the same thing it used be.
a limited, somewhat rare, hard-to-get. Somebody (including me) want that as "Feature" of a board.
If many people thinks like that, I have to limit quantity.

I'm struggling with myself. Rarity? Practical? where I should go on this way?
As I talked with some friends, my little wish is "anyone who types" should uses split-style keyboard. not just VE series.
If that time comes, I can get good product in decent price. right? To be honest here, VE series? too expensive, even for me.

So, how do you think guys?

I think whatever number you had in mind even before you saw the interest here should be the number you stick with, since that's the number you're comfortable with for both making/sorting/shipping it and to keep some of the rarity that might make the keyboard more special :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:25:55
Another benefit I might add is that if you do it in rounds, you can perhaps even update/revise the design, if there is anything you would like to change about it. :)

It's already an awesome design, and I completely love the combination of PC and Alu, it's just that personally I tend to tweak my designs and things... it never stops!

Yet another benefit for buyers is that, if we have a lower QTY each time, this just means Vermillion will be able to spend more time QC, because with a larger QTY, you always have to worry about more QC issues, and time is a finite resource.

Well I think zefyr doesn't want a lot boards floating around and since he has little time to handle the logistics of shipping and what not, I doubt breaking into batches would help. I think if we can get someone to help him out with the shipping and logistics a 1 off GB what be nice.

How would it make it more boards floating around? He could run a GB with 200 boards or 4 smaller ones with 50 boards each(random numbers for example). It's better to run it in small batches to maintain quality and be able to ship it out in a reasonable time. Also running it in smaller batches, like Karura said, would help zefyr in making revisions to the board to make it even better.

Well I guess it just depends. I mean look at the Duck's boards imagine if he only did 1 GB for each of his boards, now he has more orders than he can handle. Octagon v1 had around 30 ordered v2 almost has double that, and that's not including another 30 who didn't even get a chance to purchase 1.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ccc24 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:34:57
Another benefit I might add is that if you do it in rounds, you can perhaps even update/revise the design, if there is anything you would like to change about it. :)

It's already an awesome design, and I completely love the combination of PC and Alu, it's just that personally I tend to tweak my designs and things... it never stops!

Yet another benefit for buyers is that, if we have a lower QTY each time, this just means Vermillion will be able to spend more time QC, because with a larger QTY, you always have to worry about more QC issues, and time is a finite resource.

Well I think zefyr doesn't want a lot boards floating around and since he has little time to handle the logistics of shipping and what not, I doubt breaking into batches would help. I think if we can get someone to help him out with the shipping and logistics a 1 off GB what be nice.

I'm not sure if I completely agree with you. If anything, breaking it down into batches really allows him more control over the amount of time he wants to spend.

Less QTY = less time required, spread over a few months (let's say 4-6 months).
More QTY = more time required, need to hire someone, etc.

There is no debate that it is a much larger commitment to have to make 100-200 keyboards over 6 months, with hired help, than 30-50 keyboards over 6 months. (Note, I am using arbitrary numbers for the time required to produce and put together VE.A kits just for comparison's sake).

It is a larger commitment but from the impression I got zefyr never really planned to make this a long term project. I think he only expected to have a handful of orders and just combine it with korean one he's running, but since this blew up it really changed things.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:36:26
Another benefit I might add is that if you do it in rounds, you can perhaps even update/revise the design, if there is anything you would like to change about it. :)

It's already an awesome design, and I completely love the combination of PC and Alu, it's just that personally I tend to tweak my designs and things... it never stops!

Yet another benefit for buyers is that, if we have a lower QTY each time, this just means Vermillion will be able to spend more time QC, because with a larger QTY, you always have to worry about more QC issues, and time is a finite resource.

Well I think zefyr doesn't want a lot boards floating around and since he has little time to handle the logistics of shipping and what not, I doubt breaking into batches would help. I think if we can get someone to help him out with the shipping and logistics a 1 off GB what be nice.

I'm not sure if I completely agree with you. If anything, breaking it down into batches really allows him more control over the amount of time he wants to spend.

Less QTY = less time required, spread over a few months (let's say 4-6 months).
More QTY = more time required, need to hire someone, etc.

There is no debate that it is a much larger commitment to have to make 100-200 keyboards over 6 months, with hired help, than 30-50 keyboards over 6 months. (Note, I am using arbitrary numbers for the time required to produce and put together VE.A kits just for comparison's sake).

It is a larger commitment but from the impression I got zefyr never really planned to make this a long term project. I think he only expected to have a handful of orders and just combine it with korean one he's running, but since this blew up it really changed things.

And I think that's how it should stay. I don't think that these extra orders here should really add a huge bulk of orders to the overall buy.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: radio_killah on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:42:00
Let's all just make sure we give it the good ol' college try to not be salty when not everyone gets one.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 21:46:01
I actually have an option to make it. I can hire people.
As I mentioned before, my factory's capacity is big enough everyone.
It's just my packaging, checking, shipping time that I'm short of.

But,
In that another way, It cannot be the same thing it used be.
a limited, somewhat rare, hard-to-get. Somebody (including me) want that as "Feature" of a board.
If many people thinks like that, I have to limit quantity.

I'm struggling with myself. Rarity? Practical? where I should go on this way?
As I talked with some friends, my little wish is "anyone who types" should uses split-style keyboard. not just VE series.
If that time comes, I can get good product in decent price. right? To be honest here, VE series? too expensive, even for me.

So, how do you think guys?

I think whatever number you had in mind even before you saw the interest here should be the number you stick with, since that's the number you're comfortable with for both making/sorting/shipping it and to keep some of the rarity that might make the keyboard more special :thumb:

Yes, I agree here. Go with the number you had planned before you even opened up the interest check, Zefyr. That would be most natural and go with what you initially had expected and planned for.

Perhaps if all goes well the first batch, you can make another round or maybe even work with winkeyless.kr to produce a less limited version with an all acrylic case! But then, you already have one like that, don't you?  The non-armor VE types!

Well, maybe you can collaborate with them (as I know you have with the PCB design), and have a board that is produced commonly on their website! The great thing about WKL.kr is that they really do make customs more accessible and affordable for those who really want a Korean keyboard.

I honestly think this would go perfectly with your wish for everyone to own a split keyboard. You can keep the VE.A as a special release and keep another version that is always available for purchase through winkeyless.kr.

Just a thought!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:00:22
Yes, I agree here. Go with the number you had planned before you even opened up the interest check, Zefyr. That would be most natural and go with what you initially had expected and planned for.

Perhaps if all goes well the first batch, you can make another round or maybe even work with winkeyless.kr to produce a less limited version with an all acrylic case! But then, you already have one like that, don't you?  The non-armor VE types!

Well, maybe you can collaborate with them (as I know you have with the PCB design), and have a board that is produced commonly on their website! The great thing about WKL.kr is that they really do make customs more accessible and affordable for those who really want a Korean keyboard.

I honestly think this would go perfectly with your wish for everyone to own a split keyboard. You can keep the VE.A as a special release and keep another version that is always available for purchase through winkeyless.kr.

Just a thought!

Good point, good point, makes a lot sense.
And I don't draw non-armored version yet. I had a little argue with my old acrylic factory guy, well... he was so rude.
That's why I made armored version even I don't afford for sampling. funny isn't it? I'm that kind of dude.

I'm working with WKL.kr (not exactly 'with' but yeh... sort of... he is a "Star artisan") he made VE.A's firmware by himself and offered to me. amazing! isn't him?

Your idea seem to be a good solution for that. I'll think about it.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: romevi on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:02:33
Yes, I agree here. Go with the number you had planned before you even opened up the interest check, Zefyr. That would be most natural and go with what you initially had expected and planned for.

Perhaps if all goes well the first batch, you can make another round or maybe even work with winkeyless.kr to produce a less limited version with an all acrylic case! But then, you already have one like that, don't you?  The non-armor VE types!

Well, maybe you can collaborate with them (as I know you have with the PCB design), and have a board that is produced commonly on their website! The great thing about WKL.kr is that they really do make customs more accessible and affordable for those who really want a Korean keyboard.

I honestly think this would go perfectly with your wish for everyone to own a split keyboard. You can keep the VE.A as a special release and keep another version that is always available for purchase through winkeyless.kr.

Just a thought!

Good point, good point, makes a lot sense.
And I don't draw non-armored version yet. I had a little argue with my old acrylic factory guy, well... he was so rude.
That's why I made armored version even I don't afford for sampling. funny isn't it? I'm that kind of dude.

I'm working with WKL.kr (not exactly 'with' but yeh... sort of... he is a "Star artisan") he made VE.A's firmware by himself and offered to me. amazing! isn't him?

Your idea seem to be a good solution for that. I'll think about it.

I love the Wkl.kr dude. He responded to all my questions, and his firmware is amazing to work with. So much control and customization! He epitomizes dedication to the keyboard hobby.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:07:07
On a separate discussion, if people do get this, what switches are they planning to get,
I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to get ALPS because of what seems like a limited number of keysets.
It's hard enough finding keysets for my Topre's, just praying sliders become available soon at Ctrl Alt.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:11:47
And I don't draw non-armored version yet. I had a little argue with my old acrylic factory guy, well... he was so rude.
That's why I made armored version even I don't afford for sampling. funny isn't it? I'm that kind of dude.

Damn, that's ruthless lol
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:26:25
And I don't draw non-armored version yet. I had a little argue with my old acrylic factory guy, well... he was so rude.
That's why I made armored version even I don't afford for sampling. funny isn't it? I'm that kind of dude.

Damn, that's ruthless lol

Yeh... I was SO mad at him.
And then, I started watch 3D product modeling lectures from youtube.
After one week, I sent my first drawing to my new producer.
That's how much I was mad.

hmm... you know... anger may be one of my best nudge sometime. that I don't want though.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Karura on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:29:35
And I don't draw non-armored version yet. I had a little argue with my old acrylic factory guy, well... he was so rude.
That's why I made armored version even I don't afford for sampling. funny isn't it? I'm that kind of dude.

Damn, that's ruthless lol

Yeh... I was SO mad at him.
And then, I started watch 3D product modeling lectures from youtube.
After one week, I sent my first drawing to my new producer.
That's how much I was mad.

hmm... you know... anger may be one of my best nudge sometime. that I don't want though.

Did you learn to draw on youtube? That is really impressive.

Do you use Solid Works or something else? Please teach, haha :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:30:25
And I don't draw non-armored version yet. I had a little argue with my old acrylic factory guy, well... he was so rude.
That's why I made armored version even I don't afford for sampling. funny isn't it? I'm that kind of dude.

Damn, that's ruthless lol

Yeh... I was SO mad at him.
And then, I started watch 3D product modeling lectures from youtube.
After one week, I sent my first drawing to my new producer.
That's how much I was mad.

hmm... you know... anger may be one of my best nudge sometime. that I don't want though.


One week, that's insanely quick. Had you done anything similar before?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:33:51
One week, that's insanely quick. Had you done anything similar before?

Nope.
I think I was in some kind of "zone" than.
I used autocad360 only to draw Vergo type.T first version.
Man that's a easy, free one. love it. cannot draw 3D though.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:42:15
On a separate discussion, if people do get this, what switches are they planning to get,
I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to get ALPS because of what seems like a limited number of keysets.
It's hard enough finding keysets for my Topre's, just praying sliders become available soon at Ctrl Alt.

I am definitely more inclined toward Alps these days, but I just scored 120 vintage MX whites (the sort with the translucent stems) and I really wanted to have that as my last foray into Cherry MX. So, if I keep the Octagon v2 order I have, then I'll put them in that.

I think I'd really like to use blue Alps for the VE.A.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:50:51
On a separate discussion, if people do get this, what switches are they planning to get,
I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to get ALPS because of what seems like a limited number of keysets.
It's hard enough finding keysets for my Topre's, just praying sliders become available soon at Ctrl Alt.

I am definitely more inclined toward Alps these days, but I just scored 120 vintage MX whites (the sort with the translucent stems) and I really wanted to have that as my last foray into Cherry MX. So, if I keep the Octagon v2 order I have, then I'll put them in that.

I think I'd really like to use blue Alps for the VE.A.

Where's the best place to get ALPS switches and keysets?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:51:42
On a separate discussion, if people do get this, what switches are they planning to get,
I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to get ALPS because of what seems like a limited number of keysets.
It's hard enough finding keysets for my Topre's, just praying sliders become available soon at Ctrl Alt.

I am definitely more inclined toward Alps these days, but I just scored 120 vintage MX whites (the sort with the translucent stems) and I really wanted to have that as my last foray into Cherry MX. So, if I keep the Octagon v2 order I have, then I'll put them in that.

I think I'd really like to use blue Alps for the VE.A.

Where's the best place to get ALPS switches and keysets?

E3E's garage, apparently.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: radio_killah on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:54:30
On a separate discussion, if people do get this, what switches are they planning to get,
I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to get ALPS because of what seems like a limited number of keysets.
It's hard enough finding keysets for my Topre's, just praying sliders become available soon at Ctrl Alt.

I am definitely more inclined toward Alps these days, but I just scored 120 vintage MX whites (the sort with the translucent stems) and I really wanted to have that as my last foray into Cherry MX. So, if I keep the Octagon v2 order I have, then I'll put them in that.

I think I'd really like to use blue Alps for the VE.A.

Where's the best place to get ALPS switches and keysets?

E3E's garage, apparently.

^^^^

I like this guy.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:55:28
On a separate discussion, if people do get this, what switches are they planning to get,
I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to get ALPS because of what seems like a limited number of keysets.
It's hard enough finding keysets for my Topre's, just praying sliders become available soon at Ctrl Alt.

I am definitely more inclined toward Alps these days, but I just scored 120 vintage MX whites (the sort with the translucent stems) and I really wanted to have that as my last foray into Cherry MX. So, if I keep the Octagon v2 order I have, then I'll put them in that.

I think I'd really like to use blue Alps for the VE.A.

Where's the best place to get ALPS switches and keysets?

E3E's garage, apparently.

^^^^

I like this guy.

Definitely like this guy too  :p
The language barrier doesn't seem to stop his humor from getting across! (aside from the list)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 22:59:26
On a separate discussion, if people do get this, what switches are they planning to get,
I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to get ALPS because of what seems like a limited number of keysets.
It's hard enough finding keysets for my Topre's, just praying sliders become available soon at Ctrl Alt.

I am definitely more inclined toward Alps these days, but I just scored 120 vintage MX whites (the sort with the translucent stems) and I really wanted to have that as my last foray into Cherry MX. So, if I keep the Octagon v2 order I have, then I'll put them in that.

I think I'd really like to use blue Alps for the VE.A.

Where's the best place to get ALPS switches and keysets?

E3E's garage, apparently.

LOL made my day!  Hehe!!!! 
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 23:04:55
@zefyr Have you used tactile brown alps from the IBM 5140?  I seem to like them, but I've never typed on a functional keyboard with them.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 23:09:48
Where's the best place to get ALPS switches and keysets?

E3E's garage, apparently.

LOL I think Zefyr might be right on this one. XD

:D
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: ileben on Wed, 03 February 2016, 23:12:51
As I talked with some friends, my little wish is "anyone who types" should uses split-style keyboard. not just VE series.
If that time comes, I can get good product in decent price. right? To be honest here, VE series? too expensive, even for me.

So, how do you think guys?

That's how I feel as well - I think looking into the future, we should strive to improve text input from man to machine and it should be as natural as possible. Split keyboard is the first straightforward way to improve ergonomics of text input and I think the community is kind of backwards in how much more people care about specific key layouts even before looking at split designs.

Granted, when you're young you don't care about ergonomics, because the body is more flexible. It has only been in the last year that I started feeling pain in my right wrist from bending my hand (I do up to 10 hours of programming each day). But we should strive to redefine the keyboard standards to avoid the risk in advance.

I've been thinking a lot about natural text inputs, but anything other than reading our brain will still be slower than typing, so it will be a while before anything other than a keyboard becomes viable. In light of that, we should make keyboards as natural as possible. Ergo keyboards have always been a niche, and split designs even more so, but like you said, I truely believe anyone who types should start with a split from the get go.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 23:13:58
@zefyr Have you used tactile brown alps from the IBM 5140?  I seem to like them, but I've never typed on a functional keyboard with them.

Yes I have. I have couple of them. (just board parts, I throw rest of them away since it's broken anyway.)
I felt incredible at first, it's like the keycap is attached with fingertips. And at tactile point, not my muscle is moving the switch - the switch is moving my finger. man I hate I cannot express more than this.
But I said "at first".
It's pressure was too high. So I swapped the spring with the one from AEK II, suddenly feeling was gone.
So, I just use it as typing joy thing. it's not assembled, I just type. and smile. that's all :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 23:18:23
Granted, when you're young you don't care about ergonomics, because the body is more flexible. It has only been in the last year that I started feeling pain in my right wrist from bending my hand (I do up to 10 hours of programming each day). But we should strive to redefine the keyboard standards to avoid the risk in advance.

Hey, it's just sad. let's workout. shall we?  :D
I believe that "I'll start tomorrow damn it." thing is a kind of sickness. I guess. lol.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 23:27:38
@zefyr Have you used tactile brown alps from the IBM 5140?  I seem to like them, but I've never typed on a functional keyboard with them.

Yes I have. I have couple of them. (just board parts, I throw rest of them away since it's broken anyway.)
I felt incredible at first, it's like the keycap is attached with fingertips. And at tactile point, not my muscle is moving the switch - the switch is moving my finger. man I hate I cannot express more than this.
But I said "at first".
It's pressure was too high. So I swapped the spring with the one from AEK II, suddenly feeling was gone.
So, I just use it as typing joy thing. it's not assembled, I just type. and smile. that's all :)

I know what you mean.  I type on mine for fun sometimes too :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 23:31:36
@zefyr Have you used tactile brown alps from the IBM 5140?  I seem to like them, but I've never typed on a functional keyboard with them.

Yes I have. I have couple of them. (just board parts, I throw rest of them away since it's broken anyway.)
I felt incredible at first, it's like the keycap is attached with fingertips. And at tactile point, not my muscle is moving the switch - the switch is moving my finger. man I hate I cannot express more than this.
But I said "at first".
It's pressure was too high. So I swapped the spring with the one from AEK II, suddenly feeling was gone.
So, I just use it as typing joy thing. it's not assembled, I just type. and smile. that's all :)

I know what you mean.  I type on mine for fun sometimes too :)

The spring weight is not too high for me, but I just can't get into the feel of tactile browns, unfortunately. My favorite tactile switches are definitely orange Alps. ^-^
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: appleonama on Wed, 03 February 2016, 23:32:52
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/525/438/003/c198aa51a577d8980f94a7dfd4ef18bd.jpg)

 :-* you were hiding this beauty from us at GH
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 23:54:40
Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/525/438/003/c198aa51a577d8980f94a7dfd4ef18bd.jpg)


 :-* you were hiding this beauty from us at GH

That thing reminds me of the golden bomber from Bomberman.

Lol, jeez. Even the key caps are beige yellow to match. That's an enthralling board! I bet it has unicorns inside of it.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Thu, 04 February 2016, 01:53:48
Black is still my favourite from the pics so far, but if you could do a keyboard in Red that would be incredible.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: deduction on Thu, 04 February 2016, 02:47:06
List just hit 15th

I know I expressed interest in another thread but... I'm pretty new here, but am a serious collector nonetheless.  I would love to buy one of these kits.  I will totally understand if you decide to be selective about community standing when considering round two buyers, but oh man oh man that keyboard is sexy and I want to build one so badly.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 February 2016, 02:55:40
Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/525/438/003/c198aa51a577d8980f94a7dfd4ef18bd.jpg)


 :-* you were hiding this beauty from us at GH

That thing reminds me of the golden bomber from Bomberman.

Lol, jeez. Even the key caps are beige yellow to match. That's an enthralling board! I bet it has unicorns inside of it.
And it must have some amber alps so it match the board  :p
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Bucky on Thu, 04 February 2016, 10:47:18
Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/525/438/003/c198aa51a577d8980f94a7dfd4ef18bd.jpg)


 :-* you were hiding this beauty from us at GH

I would personally never get a gold board, but that looks pretty sweet.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Thu, 04 February 2016, 11:47:13
Show Image
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/525/438/003/c198aa51a577d8980f94a7dfd4ef18bd.jpg)


 :-* you were hiding this beauty from us at GH

Added to the OP woooooow
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 04 February 2016, 11:52:21
I love how the layout is designed.
Most people fail to realize the highly unappealing proportions of traditional 75% keyboards.
I can Vermillion and his sense of aesthetic.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Thu, 04 February 2016, 12:31:15
Hey Vermillion, I know you noted that you wanted to use "plain" colors for the imminent run... (silver, black, dark grey)
But is there any other color that you can throw our way without upsetting the early adopters of your previous versions?

I can see reasoning behind not offering gold & green again to maintain that exclusivity that they desire--but how about
1 other color thats out of the box this run?  :p  They would maintain their special colors that wont be repeated (along w/ their nameplates) and we'll get a single choice that deviates from "plain"

please consider !  :))
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Thu, 04 February 2016, 12:46:49
Hey Vermillion, I know you noted that you wanted to use "plain" colors for the imminent run... (silver, black, dark grey)
But is there any other color that you can throw our way without upsetting the early adopters of your previous versions?

I can see reasoning behind not offering gold & green again to maintain that exclusivity that they desire--but how about
1 other color thats out of the box this run?  :p  They would maintain their special colors that wont be repeated (along w/ their nameplates) and we'll get a single choice that deviates from "plain"

please consider !  :))

I got several request about adding another color option.
As you see, I already added dark gray, it wasn't an option of first batch.
At first I won't add any color besides black/silver. I thought that's a gesture for the friends who was brave enough to join "risky" GB.
I announced that I'll not add any significant color, and personalized name plate.
I'll keep my words, this stand will be applied for everybody who joining my GB.
Only this way, I can be honest designer, man of word.
I'm sure you can understand me :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Zapheo on Thu, 04 February 2016, 12:54:45
Hey Vermillion, I know you noted that you wanted to use "plain" colors for the imminent run... (silver, black, dark grey)
But is there any other color that you can throw our way without upsetting the early adopters of your previous versions?

I can see reasoning behind not offering gold & green again to maintain that exclusivity that they desire--but how about
1 other color thats out of the box this run?  :p  They would maintain their special colors that wont be repeated (along w/ their nameplates) and we'll get a single choice that deviates from "plain"

please consider !  :))

I got several request about adding another color option.
As you see, I already added dark gray, it wasn't an option of first batch.
At first I won't add any color besides black/silver. I thought that's a gesture for the friends who was brave enough to join "risky" GB.
I announced that I'll not add any significant color, and personalized name plate.
I'll keep my words, this stand will be applied for everybody who joining my GB.
Only this way, I can be honest designer, man of word.
I'm sure you can understand me :)

I'm glad to see you're making more things available for us! :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Thu, 04 February 2016, 12:55:40
Hey Vermillion, I know you noted that you wanted to use "plain" colors for the imminent run... (silver, black, dark grey)
But is there any other color that you can throw our way without upsetting the early adopters of your previous versions?

I can see reasoning behind not offering gold & green again to maintain that exclusivity that they desire--but how about
1 other color thats out of the box this run?  :p  They would maintain their special colors that wont be repeated (along w/ their nameplates) and we'll get a single choice that deviates from "plain"

please consider !  :))


I got several request about adding another color option.
As you see, I already added dark gray, it wasn't an option of first batch.
At first I won't add any color besides black/silver. I thought that's a gesture for the friends who was brave enough to join "risky" GB.
I announced that I'll not add any significant color, and personalized name plate.
I'll keep my words, this stand will be applied for everybody who joining my GB.
Only this way, I can be honest designer, man of word.
I'm sure you can understand me :)

Yep-- :-*  worth a try  :))
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 February 2016, 14:48:42
Hey Vermillion, I know you noted that you wanted to use "plain" colors for the imminent run... (silver, black, dark grey)
But is there any other color that you can throw our way without upsetting the early adopters of your previous versions?

I can see reasoning behind not offering gold & green again to maintain that exclusivity that they desire--but how about
1 other color thats out of the box this run?  :p  They would maintain their special colors that wont be repeated (along w/ their nameplates) and we'll get a single choice that deviates from "plain"

please consider !  :))

I got several request about adding another color option.
As you see, I already added dark gray, it wasn't an option of first batch.
At first I won't add any color besides black/silver. I thought that's a gesture for the friends who was brave enough to join "risky" GB.
I announced that I'll not add any significant color, and personalized name plate.
I'll keep my words, this stand will be applied for everybody who joining my GB.
Only this way, I can be honest designer, man of word.
I'm sure you can understand me :)

You've been fantastic so far, Zefyr. No worries, man. :D

I think I can't resist the temptation to get this baby reanodized the color of my choice, but it will give me time to let my wallet recharge in the meantime for that service. Not bad, since I'm thinking about getting my Lightpad reanodized too!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 15:51:42
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: radio_killah on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:39:10
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

Simple solution. Just never disconnect the sata cables from the keyboard.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:39:42
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

Simple solution. Just never disconnect the sata cables from the keyboard.

 ^-^
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:41:25
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

That's actually a valid point.
SATA cables aren't designed to handle a very high number of plugs.
A little worrying to say the least.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:44:05
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

Simple solution. Just never disconnect the sata cables from the keyboard.

Haha, there goes my idea of having a shorter cable for when the board is used normally and a longer cable for when it's split. :P
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:45:07
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

That's actually a valid point.
SATA cables aren't designed to handle a very high number of plugs.
A little worrying to say the least.

As long as it works with eSATA there shouldn't be any problems since they're rated for like 5000 vs. SATA's 50
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: axtran on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:20:39
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

That's actually a valid point.
SATA cables aren't designed to handle a very high number of plugs.
A little worrying to say the least.

As long as it works with eSATA there shouldn't be any problems since they're rated for like 5000 vs. SATA's 50

Not compatible. eSATA is a "symmetrical" plug, SATA has a guide notch.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:24:34
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

That's actually a valid point.
SATA cables aren't designed to handle a very high number of plugs.
A little worrying to say the least.

As long as it works with eSATA there shouldn't be any problems since they're rated for like 5000 vs. SATA's 50

Not compatible. eSATA is a "symmetrical" plug, SATA has a guide notch.
Shiiiiiit
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:11:28
I'm in. I will sell everything I own for this thing.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Karura on Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:13:04
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

Vermillion, would it be possible to switch eSATA for the next round? :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: LXXXIX on Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:54:02
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

Vermillion, would it be possible to switch eSATA for the next round? :)
Lol who said anything about another round?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:26:00
If i get in on this, I need to find out where i can get a curled SATA cable like the pics. Looks amazing.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:28:40
If i get in on this, I need to find out where i can get a curled SATA cable like the pics. Looks amazing.

May have just coiled his own, I've never seen a coiled SATA
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:47:44
If i get in on this, I need to find out where i can get a curled SATA cable like the pics. Looks amazing.

May have just coiled his own, I've never seen a coiled SATA

You need a pencil, and blowdryer.
Make coil using pencil as core, blowdry a munite, hold tight until gets cold. now you have a nice colied cable.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:07:45
If i get in on this, I need to find out where i can get a curled SATA cable like the pics. Looks amazing.

May have just coiled his own, I've never seen a coiled SATA

You need a pencil, and blowdryer.
Make coil using pencil as core, blowdry a munite, hold tight until gets cold. now you have a nice colied cable.

Awesome thanks. If I get in on the buy. Definitely doing this
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:25:35
What could be an interesting solution would be to use eSATA ports on the PCBs instead of SATA. But if that's not a problem for most people it might just not be worth the extra work.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:27:48
What could be an interesting solution would be to use eSATA ports on the PCBs instead of SATA. But if that's not a problem for most people it might just not be worth the extra work.

I'll be honest in that I'd probably use this as my work board, so it would see a ton of connects/disconnects, but I'd gladly take the chance with sata if it means less work for vermillion. I'm sure they won't be terribly hard to repair worst case.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:31:41
What could be an interesting solution would be to use eSATA ports on the PCBs instead of SATA. But if that's not a problem for most people it might just not be worth the extra work.

I'll be honest in that I'd probably use this as my work board, so it would see a ton of connects/disconnects, but I'd gladly take the chance with sata if it means less work for vermillion. I'm sure they won't be terribly hard to repair worst case.

Luckily SATA cables are pretty cheap so it wouldn't be some huge investment to replace them every once-and-a-while. Just some food for thought though
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:44:52
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

That's actually a valid point.
SATA cables aren't designed to handle a very high number of plugs.
A little worrying to say the least.

As long as it works with eSATA there shouldn't be any problems since they're rated for like 5000 vs. SATA's 50

Not compatible. eSATA is a "symmetrical" plug, SATA has a guide notch.
Shiiiiiit

I sense you guys miss something :)
You all know I don't send SATA data via that cable. number of pin matters. and there's some more conditions.

I searched for a long time for the "right" cable for VE series.

At first, I made custom cable with common plugs like molex.
I must say it's not a job for human-being. 

So, I looked around cable markets... like 3 months, to find something meets following condition.

- easy to get.
- short, down to 1ft to 1.5ft (and can be long to 3ft)
- at least 5 pins
- cheap
- small connector size for sleek housing design yet can solder-able by hand.
- use same plug on both end.

that I found SATA. It was a long~~~ journey guys. I searched 700000 parts DB and looked almost 30000 parts. to be honest guys... I don't want to go there again...
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:48:08
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

That's actually a valid point.
SATA cables aren't designed to handle a very high number of plugs.
A little worrying to say the least.

As long as it works with eSATA there shouldn't be any problems since they're rated for like 5000 vs. SATA's 50

Not compatible. eSATA is a "symmetrical" plug, SATA has a guide notch.
Shiiiiiit

I sense you guys miss something :)
You all know I don't send SATA data via that cable. number of pin matters. and there's some more conditions.

I searched for a long time for the "right" cable for VE series.

At first, I made custom cable with common plugs like molex.
I must say it's not a job for human-being. 

So, I looked around cable markets... like 3 months, to find something meets following condition.

- easy to get.
- short, down to 1ft to 1.5ft (and can be long to 3ft)
- at least 5 pins
- cheap
- small connector size for sleek housing design yet can solder-able by hand.
- use same plug on both end.

that I found SATA. It was a long~~~ journey guys. I searched 700000 parts DB and looked almost 30000 parts. to be honest guys... I don't want to go there again...

Ah, that does seem like a big chore. But actually an eSATA connector is almost exactly the same, it just doesn't have the same "L" shape on the inside, it's flat. Then again I'm not sure if it would be easy to make the switch, so I won't push this further :thumb:

(https://itsolutionpoint.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/esata.jpg)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:48:18
What could be an interesting solution would be to use eSATA ports on the PCBs instead of SATA. But if that's not a problem for most people it might just not be worth the extra work.

I'll be honest in that I'd probably use this as my work board, so it would see a ton of connects/disconnects, but I'd gladly take the chance with sata if it means less work for vermillion. I'm sure they won't be terribly hard to repair worst case.

Luckily SATA cables are pretty cheap so it wouldn't be some huge investment to replace them every once-and-a-while. Just some food for thought though

Is it the cable that has a limited number of re-plugs, or the connector on the keyboard?  Or both?

If it's just the cable, I'm not too fussed since they are cheap.  But if I have to re-solder the connector on the PCB that might be annoying.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:49:16
What could be an interesting solution would be to use eSATA ports on the PCBs instead of SATA. But if that's not a problem for most people it might just not be worth the extra work.

I'll be honest in that I'd probably use this as my work board, so it would see a ton of connects/disconnects, but I'd gladly take the chance with sata if it means less work for vermillion. I'm sure they won't be terribly hard to repair worst case.

Luckily SATA cables are pretty cheap so it wouldn't be some huge investment to replace them every once-and-a-while. Just some food for thought though

Is it the cable that has a limited number of re-plugs, or the connector on the keyboard?  Or both?

If it's just the cable, I'm not too fussed since they are cheap.  But if I have to re-solder the connector on the PCB that might be annoying.

It's just the cable. And yeah, they're definitely cheap, it's just nice not to have another thing to think about ya know? But if it's as much a pain as Zefyr says, it's really not worth switching anyway
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:52:22
What could be an interesting solution would be to use eSATA ports on the PCBs instead of SATA. But if that's not a problem for most people it might just not be worth the extra work.

I'll be honest in that I'd probably use this as my work board, so it would see a ton of connects/disconnects, but I'd gladly take the chance with sata if it means less work for vermillion. I'm sure they won't be terribly hard to repair worst case.

Luckily SATA cables are pretty cheap so it wouldn't be some huge investment to replace them every once-and-a-while. Just some food for thought though

Is it the cable that has a limited number of re-plugs, or the connector on the keyboard?  Or both?

If it's just the cable, I'm not too fussed since they are cheap.  But if I have to re-solder the connector on the PCB that might be annoying.

It's just the cable. And yeah, they're definitely cheap, it's just nice not to have another thing to think about ya know? But if it's as much a pain as Zefyr says, it's really not worth switching anyway

Oh definitely, agreed that it's worth discussing and thinking about; even minor issues should be rectified if easy enough.  :thumb:  Just saying it won't stop me from buying, by any means.  :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:54:04
So could we use eSATA cables with this? I would just be afraid of breaking a regular SATA connector.

That's actually a valid point.
SATA cables aren't designed to handle a very high number of plugs.
A little worrying to say the least.

As long as it works with eSATA there shouldn't be any problems since they're rated for like 5000 vs. SATA's 50

Not compatible. eSATA is a "symmetrical" plug, SATA has a guide notch.
Shiiiiiit

I sense you guys miss something :)
You all know I don't send SATA data via that cable. number of pin matters. and there's some more conditions.

I searched for a long time for the "right" cable for VE series.

At first, I made custom cable with common plugs like molex.
I must say it's not a job for human-being. 

So, I looked around cable markets... like 3 months, to find something meets following condition.

- easy to get.
- short, down to 1ft to 1.5ft (and can be long to 3ft)
- at least 5 pins
- cheap
- small connector size for sleek housing design yet can solder-able by hand.
- use same plug on both end.

that I found SATA. It was a long~~~ journey guys. I searched 700000 parts DB and looked almost 30000 parts. to be honest guys... I don't want to go there again...

Ah, that does seem like a big chore. But actually an eSATA connector is almost exactly the same, it just doesn't have the same "L" shape on the inside, it's flat. Then again I'm not sure if it would be easy to make the switch, so I won't push this further :thumb:

Show Image
(https://itsolutionpoint.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/esata.jpg)


VE.A uses shrouded(improved durability) connector on PCB side.
which I didn't with Vergo type.T, it was open connector. but no broken connector reported yet.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:55:49
It's just the cable. And yeah, they're definitely cheap, it's just nice not to have another thing to think about ya know? But if it's as much a pain as Zefyr says, it's really not worth switching anyway

Oh definitely, agreed that it's worth discussing and thinking about; even minor issues should be rectified if easy enough.  :thumb:  Just saying it won't stop me from buying, by any means.  :thumb:

+1 for both
that's why this thread titled "discussion" right?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:55:49
VE.A uses shrouded(improved durability) connector on PCB side.
which I didn't with Vergo type.T, it was open connector. but no broken connector reported yet.

Ah, good to know :thumb:. Of course you thought everything possible beforehand :p
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Karura on Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:00:27
I'm sure it was a lot of time spent into getting the right connector, thanks for explaining!

The flat SATA cable coiled up really adds to the aesthetics.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hkf on Fri, 05 February 2016, 03:14:30
How hard will it be to get used to ergodox-esq layouts?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Fri, 05 February 2016, 03:23:08
How hard will it be to get used to ergodox-esq layouts?

(more like freestyle-esq thing in layout way.)
It depends,
in my case, 2 weeks? that 2 weeks changed my typing life forever.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: hkf on Fri, 05 February 2016, 03:24:45
How hard will it be to get used to ergodox-esq layouts?

(more like freestyle-esq thing in layout way.)
It depends,
in my case, 2 weeks? that 2 weeks changed my typing life forever.

That sounds really fast. At the moment my left hand types the YHN column a bit more than my right hand, so it will be interesting to say the least.

Step 1 though is a spot in the GB considering my luck with raffles xD
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Fri, 05 February 2016, 06:08:36
How hard will it be to get used to ergodox-esq layouts?

(more like freestyle-esq thing in layout way.)
It depends,
in my case, 2 weeks? that 2 weeks changed my typing life forever.

That sounds really fast. At the moment my left hand types the YHN column a bit more than my right hand, so it will be interesting to say the least.

Step 1 though is a spot in the GB considering my luck with raffles xD

Try changing that and constantly working on it, it makes your right hand a bit more useful and more satisfying to type correctly :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: dohbot on Wed, 17 February 2016, 12:53:43
I am very excited for this! It is everything I want in a keyboard!
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: appleonama on Wed, 17 February 2016, 12:59:04
How hard will it be to get used to ergodox-esq layouts?

No difference if you are a touch Typer with proper typing technique which most people don't have
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: dohbot on Wed, 17 February 2016, 13:02:20
The shift key on the bottom is space, right? Not the 0 key? Because that 0 would hurt me greatly
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: E3E on Wed, 17 February 2016, 15:22:33
The shift key on the bottom is space, right? Not the 0 key? Because that 0 would hurt me greatly

I don't think it makes any sense for that key to be a zero key in the firmware, lol. Though it will be programmable, so you can hurt yourself all you want if you'd like. :P
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: dohbot on Wed, 17 February 2016, 15:25:54
The shift key on the bottom is space, right? Not the 0 key? Because that 0 would hurt me greatly

I don't think it makes any sense for that key to be a zero key in the firmware, lol. Though it will be programmable, so you can hurt yourself all you want if you'd like.
I think I may have phrased that wrong but thanks for your answer as it did answer my question. :)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Wed, 17 February 2016, 15:32:40
The shift key on the bottom is space, right? Not the 0 key? Because that 0 would hurt me greatly

I don't think it makes any sense for that key to be a zero key in the firmware, lol. Though it will be programmable, so you can hurt yourself all you want if you'd like.
I think I may have phrased that wrong but thanks for your answer as it did answer my question. :)
It's just a key that happens to fit the board iirc
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: dohbot on Wed, 17 February 2016, 15:33:24
The shift key on the bottom is space, right? Not the 0 key? Because that 0 would hurt me greatly

I don't think it makes any sense for that key to be a zero key in the firmware, lol. Though it will be programmable, so you can hurt yourself all you want if you'd like.
I think I may have phrased that wrong but thanks for your answer as it did answer my question. :)
It's just a key that happens to fit the board iirc
Which I love but I may need to make it zero...
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Vimto on Mon, 16 May 2016, 09:08:12
Just ordered but are there any pics of the dark grey compared to the black? Can't decide. Also can we buy just the stabs? I've got plenty of Zealios.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 17 May 2016, 03:04:08
The design is NOT ergonomically optimal..

IMHO,  this layout compromises  Ergonomics to preserve keycap compatibility..


If you're gonna go this far and get a $400 ERGONOMIC keyboard,   but it isn't designed all the way for ergonomics.. What was the point ..  (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/hehe-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862507)


The right hand side would work fine, because you can get your hands around it.


But notice the left hand side 1x qwerty-keys are staggered away from direction which fingers naturally curl..  (here we see the compromise, to preserve cap compatibility)

 

For $400, I'd also expect machined acrylic,  not laser cut acrylic..   and if it is laser cut,  I'd expect better cut than what's in the picture..

Those vertical lines show up because they're prioritizing cut speed over cut quality..  This is a highly tweak intensive process.. because different acrylics even within a single batch may require different cut speeds / cut temperatures for smooth edges..



The original ergodox does not have very good edges either, but for $200, I let it go..

Not @ $400



Guys, if you get this.

Don't waste your money on that stand..

Tenting requires a MUCH HIGHER stand, and across multiple axis for best fit and comfort.


This seems to only tent left-right but not up-down..

I had tried using my ergodox with only left right tenting, it did not fit my wrist well.



ONTOP of which, you need significantly more tenting then that picture.. something along the lines of 100mm in the middle..
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 17 May 2016, 03:07:22
Some of you may say.. Buhh Hey, Tp,   Keycap compatibility is very important to me, I have spent so much money on keycaps..   


Yes, Fine,  but that COMPROMISE puts this keyboard strictly into the realm of mediocrity as an Ergonomic board..

That is to say,   The keycap investment from the beginning was a major mistake..   BY PRESERVING IT,   you've legacy-ed that mistake..
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 17 May 2016, 09:01:51
Some of you may say.. Buhh Hey, Tp,   Keycap compatibility is very important to me, I have spent so much money on keycaps..   


Yes, Fine,  but that COMPROMISE puts this keyboard strictly into the realm of mediocrity as an Ergonomic board..

That is to say,   The keycap investment from the beginning was a major mistake..   BY PRESERVING IT,   you've legacy-ed that mistake..


What if I just think it looks cool?
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: pwade3 on Tue, 17 May 2016, 09:11:05
Some of you may say.. Buhh Hey, Tp,   Keycap compatibility is very important to me, I have spent so much money on keycaps..   


Yes, Fine,  but that COMPROMISE puts this keyboard strictly into the realm of mediocrity as an Ergonomic board..

That is to say,   The keycap investment from the beginning was a major mistake..   BY PRESERVING IT,   you've legacy-ed that mistake..


What if I just think it looks cool?

That's about how I feel, I think it looks super cool.

But the problem is that I have 0 desire to type on one.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: appleonama on Tue, 17 May 2016, 09:20:32
Tp speaks truth. It still looks sorta cool
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 17 May 2016, 09:33:52
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Data on Tue, 17 May 2016, 11:22:27
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.

I wouldn't worry too much about ergonomics.  We can get lost down a rabbit hole trying to chase ergonomics and that's not really the core point of VE.A, at least as far as I understand it.

Hand separation and horizontal (flat) tilt are just two of many factors for ergonomics, but they're significant factors that could contribute heavily to the user's typing experience.  Each user is different -- that's ergonomics in a nutshell.  So while VE.A doesn't go out of its way to embrace every crazy, obscure facet of keyboard ergonomics, it's certainly better than your typical one-piece keyboard.  And it might be a stepping stone for some people to explore further ergo-keyboard options down the road.

I guess what I'm saying is: you did great.  :P
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Tue, 17 May 2016, 11:43:54
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.

I wouldn't worry too much about ergonomics.  We can get lost down a rabbit hole trying to chase ergonomics and that's not really the core point of VE.A, at least as far as I understand it.

Hand separation and horizontal (flat) tilt are just two of many factors for ergonomics, but they're significant factors that could contribute heavily to the user's typing experience.  Each user is different -- that's ergonomics in a nutshell.  So while VE.A doesn't go out of its way to embrace every crazy, obscure facet of keyboard ergonomics, it's certainly better than your typical one-piece keyboard.  And it might be a stepping stone for some people to explore further ergo-keyboard options down the road.

I guess what I'm saying is: you did great.  :P

+1

It does more than "look cool" and I appreciate the work you did to achieve the aesthetic while having actual practicality   :thumb:
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 17 May 2016, 15:35:47
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.

Hello. Zeyfr,  I apologize if I've mistaken the construction of ur keyboard..

I was only looking at the fotos on massdrop.. Particular this one below..

It looks like laser cut marks, I've never seen such an uneven finish from a CNC cut part before.

[attach=1]


As for the Ergonomic aspect..

I suppose the Tilting can be rectified by building in some way for the users to Increase and alter the MULTI-Axis Tilt angle of the keyboard more easily


The Ergodox has many m3 size screw holes in the RIGHT PLACES by coincidence.. 

Perhaps punching a few extra holes in your stand will rectify this short coming.'


As for the layout.. sigh....   well, it is what it is....  I can only describe it as throwing good money after bad,  If you are unfamiliar with this term, here is the explanation..

(http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw+good+money+after+bad)


People buy into a platform, ansi keycaps, which is Not an ergonomic layout by any means and they feel compelled to continue ...  because leaving Ansi, would mean dropping a large previous investment..


But as a prospective ERGONOMICS entrant,   Ask yourself, 

WHY are you getting an ergonomic keyboard..  ??
WHAT is important about an ergonomics keyboard..  ??



This is not a rabbit hole,  there are some long Tested design philosophies..


A keyboard that knows many tricks, but is master of none....
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: zefyr on Tue, 17 May 2016, 21:30:23
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.

Hello. Zeyfr,  I apologize if I've mistaken the construction of ur keyboard..

I was only looking at the fotos on massdrop.. Particular this one below..

It looks like laser cut marks, I've never seen such an uneven finish from a CNC cut part before.

(Attachment Link)


As for the Ergonomic aspect..

I suppose the Tilting can be rectified by building in some way for the users to Increase and alter the MULTI-Axis Tilt angle of the keyboard more easily


The Ergodox has many m3 size screw holes in the RIGHT PLACES by coincidence.. 

Perhaps punching a few extra holes in your stand will rectify this short coming.'


As for the layout.. sigh....   well, it is what it is....  I can only describe it as throwing good money after bad,  If you are unfamiliar with this term, here is the explanation..

(http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw+good+money+after+bad)


People buy into a platform, ansi keycaps, which is Not an ergonomic layout by any means and they feel compelled to continue ...  because leaving Ansi, would mean dropping a large previous investment..


But as a prospective ERGONOMICS entrant,   Ask yourself, 

WHY are you getting an ergonomic keyboard..  ??
WHAT is important about an ergonomics keyboard..  ??



This is not a rabbit hole,  there are some long Tested design philosophies..


A keyboard that knows many tricks, but is master of none....

Yes, that photo looks like it :) I know

There's some trade-off for that,

When it comes to poly-carbonate, it's a bit hard to make smooth surface, it can be but price will go up higher (much higher)

And I decided not to go up there, cause that surface will be almost hidden when LED lit up and it's already damn-hell-pricy just for a keyboard.

I am very comfortable with this keyboard as is. I used this layout for a long time, almost 19~20 years now, from first MS natural keyboard.

I tried ErgoDox, Kinesis Contoured, Vertical and so on. Each one has really great ergonomics features and that was GREAT!!!

I'm gonna satisfy with what I made, it just suits me. I don't have any needs to move on to any others.

But this is my first trial on 3D designed keyboard case. I didn't take any class or education for design things.

I don't have enough skill to make another (like contoured curves) features :)

I did what I can do, people thinks my works are usable, they requested to share it.

That's why I share my work with people, and to be honest, I can gain some fame and sampling cost back from it :) (I'm using two almost 700USD worth keyboard but that doesn't mean that I'm rich. I just love it.)

You know that's cool :) and addictive.

Thanks for your interesting and effort on ergonomics, plus advice :)

I wish I can make better thing in the future.
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: Data on Wed, 18 May 2016, 08:04:35

This is not a rabbit hole,  there are some long Tested design philosophies..


No, it absolutely is a rabbit hole, and you've proven it quite nicely with this post.  Thank you.

Hand separation (1) and horizontal tilting (2) are both ergonomic improvements over the standard flat/staggered keyboard.  It's maybe not ergonomic enough for you, and that's fine.  But it's a lot better than nothing.  It's working for Microsoft.

The reason it's a rabbit hole is that someone (like you!) will claim that it's not ergonomic without multi-axis tilting.  OK, so we add that, but then someone else will inevitably come along and say that it's not ergonomic without a deeply-curved profile ( la Maltron).  Then a 3rd person will say it's not ergonomic without an adjustable thumb cluster.  And on and on, deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole.

How do I know this?  Because it happens every damn time the discussion dips a toe into ergonomics.  It's comically predictable.  And here we are, continuing the tradition.   ;)
Title: Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
Post by: xondat on Fri, 03 June 2016, 02:23:47
Please see this thread regarding the VE.A:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82509.0

I've locked this thread to keep discussion in one place.