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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: PainMaster on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:00:17

Title: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: PainMaster on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:00:17
VE.A 2nd Specification
revision : 2018-11-26


Housing : VE.A 2nd

Nine pieces of Aluminium Armor (Aluminium 6061), Anodized
   One pieces of Aluminium name plate
   Two pieces of Poly-Carbonate Frame
   Two pieces of 1.5T STS Switch mounting plate
   Four sloping object
   Two pieces of 0.8T STS Laser marked plate

   Matching 3M urethane bumpon included
   PCB : Vergo 2nd
   Split layout linked with SATA cable
   Cherry MX / Alps SKCx Compatible
   Full in-switch LED
   18 of RGB LED under bottom side
   Supports ISO layout(short left shift, vertical enter), ANSI layout.
   Various bottom row
   Splittable backspace
   Splittable delete
   1.6T
   White BG, Black FG
   Only VE.A can fit (Not fit with Vergo type.T reference acrylic housing design)
   No acrylic housing design is available now (2016-02-03)
   With "one standard 104 keycaps package + 1.75 shift" can cover whole layout


Software
   Firmware made by winkeyless.kr
   Control program "bootMapperClient" by winkeyless.kr (Supports Mac/Windows)
   4 Programmable layers, You even can re-map "layer change key" and macro keys.
   12 on-the-fly quick macro, 12 custom macro
   on the fly LED mode shift and brightness adjustment
   Can map "Shift+ESC" to ~




====================================================================
* 2018/11/25

The nameplates are replaceable

We were able to add color to the sample production process
and used several different colors to identify the range of colors we could express.

Actually, the nameplate color is not like that.

[attachimg=9]





[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

[attachimg=6]

[attachimg=7]

[attachimg=8]



more informations :
oddforge.com (http://oddforge.com)
Geekhack KBD forum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=98322.msg2683065#msg2683065)



Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ewwgin on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:01:54
!!!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: H3NT4I on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:05:16
 :eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: AuthenticDanger on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:06:12
Why are you still using SATA between the halves?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Dymloslouire on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:08:00
looks cool.


old logo + changing from sata to something else (e.g usb C?) would be better.
you would have to make a new pcb tho.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ArchDill on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:10:45
Nice
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: LightningXI on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:10:49
Will the SATA connection be changed? The SATA connection has latency issues and typing above ~100wpm would cause problems.

Also, would you consider changing the logo? The way the v1 did it was far more attractive. See below.

(https://i.imgur.com/kGEJG8s.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: romeo on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:17:55
interested. VE.A v1 is like my fantasy dream at that time. Will try to catch this train
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:21:09
Holy **** its happening

Im so in
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: lazyfart on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:22:04
I agree, the v1 logo was far better looking. Will the sata connection be changed?
Will the SATA connection be changed? The SATA connection has latency issues and typing above ~100wpm would cause problems.

Also, would you consider changing the logo? The way the v1 did it was far more attractive. See below.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/kGEJG8s.jpg)


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: aspenc4 on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:35:44
I agree, the v1 logo was far better looking. Will the sata connection be changed?
Will the SATA connection be changed? The SATA connection has latency issues and typing above ~100wpm would cause problems.

Also, would you consider changing the logo? The way the v1 did it was far more attractive. See below.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/kGEJG8s.jpg)


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Would like to throw my hat in the SATA-less / v1 logo camp. Iíve been excited for this for quite some time, but would be lying if I said this doesnít kill it for me
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:42:40
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: txclack on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:47:22
+1 to changing the logo and using a faster connection than SATA.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:49:28
It is of utmost importance that you ditch SATA for an actual usable cable (or make it so that SATA no longer limits WMP and causes issues along those lines if that's a realistic option) as well as the logo either for something like the old one or just a better design, I think the protruding of the current one as shown by the proto takes away from the streamlined and beautiful lines the board is known for.

That said, everything else looks fantastic and I am glad to see this finally moving forward as a future owner (if the issues above are fixed).
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: LightningXI on Sun, 25 November 2018, 22:57:40
The logo is pretty much the only thing that is different anyways.  the tenting is also, but who will actually use that?

Honestly, that's a good point. The tenting may look "innovative", but there frankly does not seem to be many improvements beyond a few aesthetic choices for this to be considered a rehaul of the former v1. There also are tenting options that can be made (DIY) otherwise.

It really would be great if some of the feedback in here were taken into serious consideration.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: mrpetrov on Sun, 25 November 2018, 23:00:04
Looks awesome, except I think that colored logo will be really jarring with a lot of keycap sets and limit flexibility.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: switchnollie on Sun, 25 November 2018, 23:08:01
Why are you still using SATA between the halves?

^^^
Yeah, we should at least be using DisplayPort 1.4 now to connect them.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: bisoromi on Sun, 25 November 2018, 23:42:26
Yup, I agree with everyone else itt

No SATA and old logo.

Everything else looks pretty solid to me
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: tomusan on Sun, 25 November 2018, 23:45:35
nais SATA

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Myth on Sun, 25 November 2018, 23:56:24
I like the new logo
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Tree_ on Mon, 26 November 2018, 00:00:39
+1 for no SATA.

I actually don't mind the new logo and badge.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: idlemao on Mon, 26 November 2018, 00:45:36
Not sure about SATA myself, but from everyone else seems like it's not desirable.

 I like the old logo myself but I would be okay with the new logo. Otherwise, consider me very interested.  ;D
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 26 November 2018, 01:10:28
sata

only thing stopping me from selling a board for this

although i still might cause i want the tenting o well
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: poolside on Mon, 26 November 2018, 01:42:54
Yes! Any possibility to mix top and bottom colors?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: theillumedpanda on Mon, 26 November 2018, 01:47:39
I still prefer the old logo and love to see something different than SATA.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: kiwi99 on Mon, 26 November 2018, 01:57:06
2 years, what innovation  :-X
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: lanyusea on Mon, 26 November 2018, 02:31:03
after two years finally...

wondering if there will be 60/HHKB version?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dantambok on Mon, 26 November 2018, 02:34:05
One of the boards in my wish list since i started the hobby.

Yes, i know it has been said already and we can't say it enough.. please change the SATA connectors
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: onefivenine on Mon, 26 November 2018, 02:39:00
Will the SATA connection be changed? The SATA connection has latency issues and typing above ~100wpm would cause problems.
Could you elaborate on how/why a SATA connection has latency issues? I find this interesting and would like to know if this is something that is a hardware limitation or a firmware issue etc.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: wholypantalones on Mon, 26 November 2018, 03:11:14
Completely not interested on all points, but I'm noticing a lack of pricing information.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Mon, 26 November 2018, 04:33:50
Still think the V1 looks nicer with the logo, and the only true downside in the v1 was the sata connector which hasnít been changed anyway...


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181126/c9df8346a824b2a4d1aa791fa5160d58.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ctrlX on Mon, 26 November 2018, 05:18:14
Oh yes. This one has been on my wishlist for a long time.

However.. in all honesty, the new logo is awful. Makes me a bit tentative to jumping on the wagon.

SATA connector should be changed according to feedback from the first version.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Lotsati on Mon, 26 November 2018, 05:47:24
Been waiting for this to come back  :-X Interested if no SATA, staying with V1 badge (or changing this one to something else), and also other plate options besides STS.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ampt on Mon, 26 November 2018, 07:39:09
Been looking forward to this for a while but the use of SATA in the age of USB C is pretty sad. I also liked the original tenting kit with wrist rests, but that's not a show stopper.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: urbantheii on Mon, 26 November 2018, 08:02:21
I will buy one if it has sata, two if it gets changed.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ReverbSlush on Mon, 26 November 2018, 08:11:01
I average over 100wpm so it really stings that I can't justify grabbing this due to sata/latency  :'(
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Poesjuh on Mon, 26 November 2018, 09:09:55
Potential buy if;
- logo is like the old
- no sata


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 26 November 2018, 09:46:41
Will the SATA connection be changed? The SATA connection has latency issues and typing above ~100wpm would cause problems.

Also, would you consider changing the logo? The way the v1 did it was far more attractive. See below.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/kGEJG8s.jpg)


This
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 10:05:24
Hit me however you want, I am in.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: schoolbus on Mon, 26 November 2018, 11:53:56
Please no SATA..
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 26 November 2018, 12:10:25
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: switchnollie on Mon, 26 November 2018, 12:25:25
Are y'all using 50 debounce or something to feel all this latency.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 12:30:53
Why all the hate on SATA?  With the exception of Flash who types over 100 WPM and claims that SATA is the reason why he can't type faster, I have not read a legit reason not to use it.  There may be good reasons but haven't seen one yet.

The SATA connectors are used for connecting the two halves together.  The keyboard isn't using the SATA protocol to communicate between the two halves.  Just the 7 wires in the cable.  You could argue USB-C is a better connector that is designed for more insertions.  But arguing using USB-C or other newer connectors because they are newer or faster and better communication protocol doesn't hold water.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 26 November 2018, 12:51:37
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: cirrus82 on Mon, 26 November 2018, 12:55:40
Excited this is happening, but I really hope there's a logo option that's more subtle like the original (or an option to remove the nameplate completely). The new one looks like a step backwards aesthetically.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 12:59:26
USB connectors are usually created to just make more money.  For instance micro isn't at all better than mini, but it was made to milk more money out of people.  C I think is pretty innovative however.  I think people dislike it because the insertion rating for SATA is really low, but TBH I had three VEA'S and only took the cable out if I was shipping it (which only happened when I was selling it)

The fact that they already made protoypes of this also tells me that they will not change it from SATA to anything else no matter how often people ask because it will still sell out, and it would cost them more money to do so.

It's all pointless arguments which we like to have on this website anyways..


IMO micro and mini are created to support smaller and thinner devices like phones.  I like C as you can insert it either side up.  I agree that it would be expensive to change the design and the PCB layout now for no significant gain (technically, functionally). 

Let's keep the argument going while we wait for V2.

- Litster typing on one of my three VE.As. 
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ampt on Mon, 26 November 2018, 12:59:58
Personally I like having a handful of USB C Cables around that I can use to connect everything. Having only one use for a SATA connector isnt super compelling. Additionally just because you never move or unplug your VE.A doesn't mean everyone does the same. There are many use cases and IMO the number of people bringing up the SATA cable should indicate that many others have issues with the cable for various reasons.

As far as micro USB goes it was made because its smaller. Thinner phones require smaller connectors, which drives the standard. You can call it a cash grab if you want but I doubt theres a conspiracy to have people buy more crappy micro USB cables out there.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 13:09:44
Personally I like having a handful of USB C Cables around that I can use to connect everything. Having only one use for a SATA connector isnt super compelling. Additionally just because you never move or unplug your VE.A doesn't mean everyone does the same. There are many use cases and IMO the number of people bringing up the SATA cable should indicate that many others have issues with the cable for various reasons.

Not sure I follow you here. 

How many USB-C cables do you have?  How many devices you use on a daily basis have USB-C connectors?  Maybe a lot.  Maybe just a few.  I have only an iPad Pro 11 and a Nintendo Switch that has USB-C connectors and they both have dedicated USB-C cables for them.

And, really, how long are your handful of USB-C cables that you have around?  Do you have any USB-C cables that are 4 inches long that would work for VE.A?  Or would you use one of your 3 feet or 6 feet long USB-C cables for your VE.A?  Also, if you have an VE.A, why would you not have a dedicated 3-inch USB-C cable for it?  And, where do you find a 4-inch USB-C cable?  Who makes custom USB-C cables?  If it is 4 inches long, why would you care or insist that your handful of 6 feet USB-C cables must work with VE.A?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 26 November 2018, 13:19:53
Why all the hate on SATA?  With the exception of Flash who types over 100 WPM and claims that SATA is the reason why he can't type faster, I have not read a legit reason not to use it.  There may be good reasons but haven't seen one yet.

How is lag over 100 WPM (a fairly average speed I'd imagine, nowadays) not a big enough problem to warrant a work around by itself? Pretty condescending argument to make honestly, it's horribly frustrating and entirely valid. Furthermore, universal connectors are never a bad thing - plus, as you said yourself, being able to put it in either side up is a bigger quality of life matter than a lot of people seem to realise.

SATA is a colossal mistake here even if they manage to fix the lag via firmware or whatever else. $500+ for a keyboard, only reason not to improve upon obvious flaws is laziness or disinterest and neither of those are sentiments I want to support despite how much I love the original board and its design.

PS: plenty of cable makers within the hobby make USB-C cables nowadays so that argument is moot point.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 13:30:26
How is lag over 100 WPM (a fairly average speed I'd imagine, nowadays) not a big enough problem to warrant a work around by itself? Pretty condescending argument to make honestly, it's horribly frustrating and entirely valid. Furthermore, universal connectors are never a bad thing - plus, as you said yourself, being able to put it in either side up is a bigger quality of life matter than a lot of people seem to realise.

SATA is a colossal mistake here even if they manage to fix the lag via firmware or whatever else. $500+ for a keyboard, only reason not to improve upon obvious flaws is laziness or disinterest and neither of those are sentiments I want to support despite how much I love the original board and its design.

PS: plenty of cable makers within the hobby make USB-C cables nowadays so that argument is moot point.

I am sorry if you feel that was condescending.  I didn't mean that.

Anyhow, how do you know it is the SATA cable that is causing the lag and replacing the SATA connector to something else will fix it? Why do you think using USB-C will eliminate the lag that you experience?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 26 November 2018, 13:42:31
Anyhow, how do you know it is the SATA cable that is causing the lag and replacing the SATA connector to something else will fix it? Why do you think using USB-C will eliminate the lag that you experience?

I personally don't know enough about the matter to be able to answer this but it's widely accepted as fact from the other owners I've spoken to who know a lot more than I do - surely someone can chime in considering the amount comments that have already been made against.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 13:46:44
PS: plenty of cable makers within the hobby make USB-C cables nowadays so that argument is moot point.

I didn't really argue that you can't or shouldn't get a custom USB-C.  In fact I was arguing the opposite with armpit that the cable for VE.A should be custom length but he has a requirement that he wants to use one of his handful of 6 feet long USB-C cables for the keyboard.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 13:51:49
I personally don't know enough about the matter to be able to answer this but it's widely accepted as fact from the other owners I've spoken to who know a lot more than I do - surely someone can chime in considering the amount comments that have already been made against.

OK.  This is basically hearsay and somehow it is believed to be fact.  This is how fake news come to be. 

There is no prove so far that I can see any lag is due to using a SATA connection between the two halves.  If it is because of the SATA connection, then it would happen only (or most of the time) on the right half and not the left half.   You can use the left half of the keyboard without connecting the right half.  Hitting the Q key for example doesn't require the SATA cable so there should be no lag typing on the left half.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ampt on Mon, 26 November 2018, 13:56:15
I didn't really argue that you can't or shouldn't get a custom USB-C.  In fact I was arguing the opposite with armpit that the cable for VE.A should be custom length but he has a requirement that he wants to use one of his handful of 6 feet long USB-C cables for the keyboard.

Resorting to name calling so soon? Tsk tsk

In regards to my "requirement" I'm simply stating that USB C cables are becoming more and more common. It's less that I have to be able to use one of my existing cables and more that I can. How many times have you been unable to use something because you either lost or forgot to pack the cable? If you answer never then I'd count you among the few rather than the majority. Who has spare SATA cables lying around as opposed to USB C? You yourself claim that while you only have a couple of USB Devices, you already have 2 cables available.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 14:01:11
Resorting to name calling so soon? Tsk tsk

In regards to my "requirement" I'm simply stating that USB C cables are becoming more and more common. It's less that I have to be able to use one of my existing cables and more that I can. How many times have you been unable to use something because you either lost or forgot to pack the cable? If you answer never then I'd count you among the few rather than the majority. Who has spare SATA cables lying around as opposed to USB C? You yourself claim that while you only have a couple of USB Devices, you already have 2 cables available.

Sorry, not name calling.  Just that it came to mind when I try to pronounce your handle.  How do you say your name?

In any case while would you need to use a 6 feet USB-C cables for VE.A?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: breusch91 on Mon, 26 November 2018, 14:26:33
I'm sure it's been stated already but it's very sad to see that the waited for this lead to no seemingly good changes. Uglier logo (imo), no usb-c, and worst of all still SATA between the halves?? Common. All this time to revamp and hear the complaints about the old one but they appear to have fallen on deaf ears.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:00:17
Excited for more
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: trizkut on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:06:35
Have 2 VE.As, and have experienced none of the supposed issues with lag from the connector at higher wpms.  This is actually the first I've heard of it.

I think the new logo is fine; SATA is fine too if that's what you choose to go with.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:11:47
Have 2 VE.As, and have experienced none of the supposed issues with lag from the connector at higher wpms.  This is actually the first I've heard of it.

I think the new logo is fine; SATA is fine too if that's what you choose to go with.  :thumb:

+1

The only problem I have experienced is the keyboard going in and out of connected state with my PC when I used a low quality mini USB cable by accident.  Never had any problem with a good quality mini USB cable. 
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: clik_clak on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:13:58
Have 2 VE.As, and have experienced none of the supposed issues with lag from the connector at higher wpms.  This is actually the first I've heard of it.

I think the new logo is fine; SATA is fine too if that's what you choose to go with.  :thumb:

I'm glad there's people like this that can give their own opinions based on their own used instead of all the people that watched 1 youtube review and decide the board is trash because of the connector.

Thank you.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:19:53
I'm glad there's people like this that can give their own opinions based on their own used instead of all the people that watched 1 youtube review and decide the board is trash because of the connector.

Thank you.

I've used a VE.A extensively too and the keystroke lag was fairly noticeable, though I do type abnormally fast I still think it's something they should work on - as said I don't know if it's a physical limitation with the type of cable used, I'm not an electrician and I definitely know very little about the subject, maybe it's their implementation of it rather than a problem with the connection; regardless, even if it is an on and off problem, or only a problem for some, I still think it should be addressed especially given the fact that USB-C is becoming so prevalent and is so handy. Or just go with TRRS, we know that one works just fine.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:30:31
I've used a VE.A extensively too and the keystroke lag was fairly noticeable, though I do type abnormally fast I still think it's something they should work on - as said I don't know if it's a physical limitation with the type of cable used, I'm not an electrician and I definitely know very little about the subject, maybe it's their implementation of it rather than a problem with the connection; regardless, even if it is an on and off problem, or only a problem for some, I still think it should be addressed especially given the fact that USB-C is becoming so prevalent and is so handy. Or just go with TRRS, we know that one works just fine.

You mean electrical engineer, not electrician. 

the lag may be something to do with the firmware design, or your cable, or your computer's OS, USB driver, USB controller, USB hub, USB cable, or other USB devices you have on your computer.  There has been no prove that SATA is the cause of the lag you have experienced non any prove that USB-C connectors would fix it.  The SATA cable there is just for wiring up the two halves of the keyboard.  The keyboard is not using the SATA protocol and would not use USB protocol if the SATA connectors are replaced with any kind USB connectors.

However using USB-C connectors would introduce a usability problem.  On the left half there would be one mini USB connector and one USB-C connector, and another USB-C connector of the right half.  Someone might ask, "why can't I use the right half of the keyboard when I plug in a USB-C cable to it and connect it to my PC?  It is a USB connector so it should work.  Trash!"
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ampt on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:36:06
The keyboard is not using the SATA protocol and would not use USB protocol if the SATA connectors are replaced with any kind USB connectors.
...
Someone might ask, "why can't I use the right half of the keyboard when I plug in a USB-C cable to it and connect it to my PC?  It is a USB connector so it should work.  Trash!"

By that same logic someone might plug the VE.A into their motherboard and ask why it doesn't work.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: switchnollie on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:36:24
I didn't really argue that you can't or shouldn't get a custom USB-C.  In fact I was arguing the opposite with armpit that the cable for VE.A should be custom length but he has a requirement that he wants to use one of his handful of 6 feet long USB-C cables for the keyboard.

Resorting to name calling so soon? Tsk tsk

Your name really get autocorrected by my phone when I type it in tho.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:40:45
By that same logic someone might plug the VE.A into their motherboard and ask why it doesn't work.  :rolleyes:

True, but you would have to way more cray cray to make the leap that a keyboard would by connecting it to your PC's SATA port. 

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 26 November 2018, 15:56:13
You mean electrical engineer, not electrician. 

the lag may be something to do with the firmware design, or your cable, or your computer's OS, USB driver, USB controller, USB hub, USB cable, or other USB devices you have on your computer.  There has been no prove that SATA is the cause of the lag you have experienced non any prove that USB-C connectors would fix it.  The SATA cable there is just for wiring up the two halves of the keyboard.  The keyboard is not using the SATA protocol and would not use USB protocol if the SATA connectors are replaced with any kind USB connectors.

However using USB-C connectors would introduce a usability problem.  On the left half there would be one mini USB connector and one USB-C connector, and another USB-C connector of the right half.  Someone might ask, "why can't I use the right half of the keyboard when I plug in a USB-C cable to it and connect it to my PC?  It is a USB connector so it should work.  Trash!"

I used electrician the same way one some times uses the term rocket scientist to refer to someone with x or y sciencey expertise. The unit I used is a friend's and we used it on both of our home PCs as well as my office one with the issue prevalent in all 3 so it's actually not a one and done type of situation where no experimentation took place. It also doesn't have exceedingly heavy switches or anything that could be giving off a wrongful impression of the keystrokes being delayed.

That said, as of when I wrote my previous posts I was wrongfully taking SATA being the culprit as factual when I should've considered that the discussions I took part in/saw happen (which took place prior to the video clik_clak mentioned) may also involve scientifically unproven opinions all around (since I honestly can't remember, was a year and a half ago or something). I shouldn't dismiss the fact it may be something else, and as per someone on Slack I was also pointed to this post which I'd forgotten about which seemingly solves the issue via an option on bootmapper - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82509.msg2524712#msg2524712

I'm still adamant in that I believe the issue should be officially addressed in so that the prospect buyers feel reassured but I understand and appreciate the scepticism.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: PainMaster on Mon, 26 November 2018, 16:27:17
Will the SATA connection be changed? The SATA connection has latency issues and typing above ~100wpm would cause problems.

Also, would you consider changing the logo? The way the v1 did it was far more attractive. See below.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/kGEJG8s.jpg)



Hi LightningXI, can you prove it by youtube?

Because we've never experienced that issue before.

If you prove it on video,

After watching the operation status of the keyboard, RGB, LED, etc. of the video,  We are trying to consider a lot of things.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: forevermadrigal on Mon, 26 November 2018, 23:59:19
Would like to see more than just STS for a plate.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Rubbermilitia on Tue, 27 November 2018, 00:11:37

Hi LightningXI, can you prove it by youtube?


After the gigantic ****storm which took over this thread, I really hope someone attempts this and posts their results. We have clearly gotten the runner's attention, and destroyed his IC, lets at least follow up with the proof they are requesting...

And if anyone is going to post a video proving this, please also test if the debounce fix posted by Vigrith works or not. If it does, then this entire lag argument is moot....
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dantambok on Tue, 27 November 2018, 00:17:45
about the SATA, maybe it would not be a problem for everyone since some people type slower ( i do 70ish WPM lol)

BUT i think a big problem is the durability/life span of of SATA ports. They are rated to like 50 to 100 plug unplug cycles?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: LightningXI on Tue, 27 November 2018, 00:23:00
Will the SATA connection be changed? The SATA connection has latency issues and typing above ~100wpm would cause problems.

Also, would you consider changing the logo? The way the v1 did it was far more attractive. See below.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/kGEJG8s.jpg)



Hi LightningXI, can you prove it by youtube?

Because we've never experienced that issue before.

If you prove it on video,

After watching the operation status of the keyboard, RGB, LED, etc. of the video,  We are trying to consider a lot of things.
I'd be willing to show something on video, but I actually have sold my own VE.A. some time ago. I've asked the buyer for help and see if it's possible to prove it on video. I apologize for that inconvenience.

Perhaps the much more concerning aspect for me is that a SATA connector is not durable. The number of cycles it can sustain for insertion and removal is pretty low relative to other connector types. While I understand that there's ease in using the v1 PCB for the v2, I strongly believe that you will garner a much more positive response by considering a USB C to USB C data transfer as well as aesthetic changes as they are being proposed. There is sufficient evidence that interested parties would prefer these features.

In any case, I will advocate for somebody to attempt a video-based experiment on the functionality of the v1, as I do not own one anymore. I'd gladly do it if I were to be able to borrow one as well.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Tree_ on Tue, 27 November 2018, 00:32:03

Hi LightningXI, can you prove it by youtube?


After the gigantic ****storm which took over this thread, I really hope someone attempts this and posts their results. We have clearly gotten the runner's attention, and destroyed his IC, lets at least follow up with the proof they are requesting...

And if anyone is going to post a video proving this, please also test if the debounce fix posted by Vigrith works or not. If it does, then this entire lag argument is moot....

+1 for no SATA.

I actually don't mind the new logo and badge.

I should probably put a point against my comment: I'm not actually against SATA because of the possibility that it effects the board when used at high WPM or because of the potential for port failure after a high number of re-connections - I just think it aesthetically looks bad compared to a USB cable. Sure you can get round SATA connectors, but it's rare to come across nice custom SATA's.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: notglacier on Tue, 27 November 2018, 01:17:38
That logo, ouch : (
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: kokugatsu on Tue, 27 November 2018, 02:16:37
Really hyped for this, though I prefer the old logo and a departure from SATA. Itís just way harder to find a replacement connector, with seemingly no benefits.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: typischt on Tue, 27 November 2018, 02:26:29
I was really confused at first, but there is another thread in the Keyboards section:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=98322.0

According to this, the logo is changeable and there is a Ąless colorfulď logo variant that will be (might be?) available.
Aaaand it has already been edited in in the OP of this thread, so thatĎs that. ;D

Really hyped for this board, was also waiting for quite some time now. SATA doesnĎt bother me that much if there are no problems with it, tho the argument that it has less Ąplug-in/out cyclesď does sound a bit concerning.
But I might be in either way.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: PainMaster on Tue, 27 November 2018, 05:25:52
In personal opinion.
about the 'latency issue' is a suspected situation of low power.

There are many different specifications for 'USB'.

For example,
USB 2.0 support 5V 500mA ~ Max 2A (2000mA).
USB 3.1 support 5V Max 5A (5000mA) & 12V & 20V.

Between USB 2.0 and USB-C (3.1),
There is a huge difference in the amount of power available.

most of Laptop USB 2.0 has 5V 500mA,
But, USB-C (for example, Mac)  has 5V 45w is Max (about 9A, standard is 5A).

If you plug the KBD (full LED, full RGB status) into a hub that low (or None) power, KBD controller may be out of power and cause abnormalities.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 27 November 2018, 06:01:21
In personal opinion.
about the 'latency issue' is a suspected situation of low power.
[...]
If you plug the KBD (full LED, full RGB status) into a hub that low (or None) power, KBD controller may be out of power and cause abnormalities.

Had it plugged directly into a USB port (tested both 2.0 and 3.0, both type a) all LEDs off, still had lag.  :thumb:

The lag has nothing to do with sata but with the implementation of VUSB that BMC uses, as well as suboptimal i2c connection between the halves. There still was very noticeable input latency on the master half.

I don't get it tbh, how did this work during design? "Let's pick a controller whose main purpose is talking to the PC via USB, oh yea this one that has no native USB support makes way more sense than the ones that do offer that functionality"  :))
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: PainMaster on Tue, 27 November 2018, 07:06:09
In personal opinion.
about the 'latency issue' is a suspected situation of low power.
[...]
If you plug the KBD (full LED, full RGB status) into a hub that low (or None) power, KBD controller may be out of power and cause abnormalities.

Had it plugged directly into a USB port (tested both 2.0 and 3.0, both type a) all LEDs off, still had lag.  :thumb:

The lag has nothing to do with sata but with the implementation of VUSB that BMC uses, as well as suboptimal i2c connection between the halves. There still was very noticeable input latency on the master half.

I don't get it tbh, how did this work during design? "Let's pick a controller whose main purpose is talking to the PC via USB, oh yea this one that has no native USB support makes way more sense than the ones that do offer that functionality"  :))



..... I'm not sure what you mean.;;
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: tchalikias on Tue, 27 November 2018, 07:56:33
I'm in, provided that SATA is replaced with USB. I don't believe the cable is responsible for the lag, obviously,  it's just a couple piece of wire,  but sata ports are incredibly flimsy.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nguyenhimself on Tue, 27 November 2018, 08:45:52
I'm in, provided that SATA is replaced with USB. I don't believe the cable is responsible for the lag, obviously,  it's just a couple piece of wire,  but sata ports are incredibly flimsy.

I think it's clear from this thread that the IC starter is not very motivated to change the SATA connector to USB.

I like retro computing as much as most people here, but this dedication to SATA of all things is just something else.

Also, I saw the logo update, and I still find it extremely cringey. Do people really enjoy seeing all those visible holes on their expensive keyboards? Paging r/trypophobia

(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=98324.0;attach=207817;image)

This is by far the worst R2 I've ever seen. All the complaints from R1 were ignored, with extra new stuffs that nobody asked for or wanted.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: clik_clak on Tue, 27 November 2018, 09:44:29
I'm in, provided that SATA is replaced with USB. I don't believe the cable is responsible for the lag, obviously,  it's just a couple piece of wire,  but sata ports are incredibly flimsy.

I think it's clear from this thread that the IC starter is not very motivated to change the SATA connector to USB.

I like retro computing as much as most people here, but this dedication to SATA of all things is just something else.

Also, I saw the logo update, and I still find it extremely cringey. Do people really enjoy seeing all those visible holes on their expensive keyboards? Paging r/trypophobia

Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=98324.0;attach=207817;image)


This is by far the worst R2 I've ever seen. All the complaints from R1 were ignored, with extra new stuffs that nobody asked for or wanted.

Then don't buy it, simple as that. Let your wallet do your talking for you.

He's not going to have any problems selling the ones he does though.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: fireworm on Tue, 27 November 2018, 10:01:58
QMK or implement a few missing features in BMC.
USB-C or TRRS between halves
USB-C main connector

It's not clear, what are the layout options? I'd really like bottom left to be 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 2.25, 1.25 (or 1).

Is it possible to lose the F-row for a 65% plus Macro keys?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: MajorKoos on Tue, 27 November 2018, 10:22:43
I have 3 VE.As from R1, and I've had 2 SATA cables fail on me (with a 3rd starting to give issues).
SATA cables are typically solid core wire and not meant to be moved around or bent too much.
At least it's the cable which fails and not the plug on the PCB.

What makes this better than R1?
I'm struggling to find anything which would make me consider getting one, and that's a shame because Korean ergos are my "thing".
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: urbantheii on Tue, 27 November 2018, 10:52:00
I have 3 VE.As from R1, and I've had 2 SATA cables fail on me (with a 3rd starting to give issues).
SATA cables are typically solid core wire and not meant to be moved around or bent too much.
At least it's the cable which fails and not the plug on the PCB.

What makes this better than R1?
I'm struggling to find anything which would make me consider getting one, and that's a shame because Korean ergos are my "thing".

Is it just the cables that are failing or the ports? I don't know much about this issue, but I really don't mind having to swap in a new SATA cable as long as the integrity of the port is fine.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: schoolbus on Tue, 27 November 2018, 11:01:04
the off-brand VE.A uses mini-usb to connect the halves and it appears to work well. I also haven't noticed any latency issues with it and I would say I type reasonably fast.

Even if SATA is acceptable, it's still annoying to have to use yet another different cable for just this board, rather than it conforming with the trend of almost all the other split keyboards.

Why don't we just use the old-school ipod charger cable to connect the halves?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 27 November 2018, 11:04:41

..... I'm not sure what you mean.;;

same tbh
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: AuthenticDanger on Tue, 27 November 2018, 11:07:26
Why don't we just use the old-school ipod charger cable to connect the halves?

Firewire!  :))
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nguyenhimself on Tue, 27 November 2018, 11:20:04
I'm in, provided that SATA is replaced with USB. I don't believe the cable is responsible for the lag, obviously,  it's just a couple piece of wire,  but sata ports are incredibly flimsy.

I think it's clear from this thread that the IC starter is not very motivated to change the SATA connector to USB.

I like retro computing as much as most people here, but this dedication to SATA of all things is just something else.

Also, I saw the logo update, and I still find it extremely cringey. Do people really enjoy seeing all those visible holes on their expensive keyboards? Paging r/trypophobia

Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=98324.0;attach=207817;image)


This is by far the worst R2 I've ever seen. All the complaints from R1 were ignored, with extra new stuffs that nobody asked for or wanted.

Then don't buy it, simple as that. Let your wallet do your talking for you.

He's not going to have any problems selling the ones he does though.

So you're saying we should ONLY say positive things in IC threads? Are you so against criticism?

Can't you stop thinking in black and white and understand that I'm posting here because I really want to get a VE.A ever since OP teased R2 on the VE.A thread since last year or so?

I'm just seriously annoyed at how there is seemingly zero worthy improvement to this kit after all this time, and now some people are dismissing criticism as 'fake news' of all things. Ugh.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: AuthenticDanger on Tue, 27 November 2018, 11:27:53
Then don't buy it, simple as that. Let your wallet do your talking for you.

He's not going to have any problems selling the ones he does though.

So you're saying we should ONLY say positive things in IC threads? Are you so against criticism?

Can't you stop thinking in black and white and understand that I'm posting here because I really want to get a VE.A ever since OP teased R2 on the VE.A thread since last year or so?

I'm just seriously annoyed at how there is seemingly zero worthy improvement to this kit after all this time, and now some people are dismissing criticism as 'fake news' of all things. Ugh.

100% agree that an IC is to check for interest and give feedback. Just because some people might buy this doesn't mean that it's good design or well thought out.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: redbanshee on Tue, 27 November 2018, 11:36:16
 :)) :)) :))

smh


lmao, geekhack, destroyer of interest checks and the majestic land of the "deal breaker", with the occasional "try hard" and the ever popular "doesnt match the render" guy for good measure


can we please get 4 handed Goro from mortal kombat to test the theoretical "lag" that apparently is produced when typing 200wmp on VE.A v1


give me a break lol




Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Tue, 27 November 2018, 11:43:12
I'm just seriously annoyed at how there is seemingly zero worthy improvement to this kit after all this time, and now some people are dismissing criticism as 'fake news' of all things. Ugh.

You think it is okay to repeat unsubstantiated rumor that SATA connection is causing typing lag?  Or can you show prove that it is true?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 27 November 2018, 11:47:16

can we please get 4 handed Goro from mortal kombat to test the theoretical "lag" that apparently is produced when typing 200wmp on VE.A v1


The whole thing has pretty noticable inputlag regardless of how quickly you type, easily 30ms higher than any other board I have. If you want proof, sorry I sold it because of that reason about one and a half years ago.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ampt on Tue, 27 November 2018, 11:50:43
I'm just seriously annoyed at how there is seemingly zero worthy improvement to this kit after all this time, and now some people are dismissing criticism as 'fake news' of all things. Ugh.

You think it is okay to repeat unsubstantiated rumor that SATA connection is causing typing lag?  Or can you show prove that it is true?

Lets just ignore the lag thing since everyone seems to be agreed that the firmware fix seems to work. I still have yet to see any good counters to the following:

SATA connectors have a very low lifespan rating.
SATA cables are harder to find in custom sleeves.
SATA cables don't flex very well, making them harder to move and position.

Or, put another way, why should we use SATA over the myriad of other options; USB C, TRRS, Mini USB? The only real reason to use SATA here is because the first one had SATA, so we don't have to redesign the PCB. That said, it seems like there are pretty substantial things being done to the case itself, leading me to think that this is less about cost savings. Either way, we're pretty stuck in the dark unless OP wants to chime in on their preference for SATA.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: redbanshee on Tue, 27 November 2018, 12:02:15

can we please get 4 handed Goro from mortal kombat to test the theoretical "lag" that apparently is produced when typing 200wmp on VE.A v1


The whole thing has pretty noticable inputlag regardless of how quickly you type, easily 30ms higher than any other board I have. If you want proof, sorry I sold it because of that reason about one and a half years ago.


I own one, I have been gaming on the ve.1 v1 for a very long time, never has it once lagged in any game or effected my performance on FPS's at all. I have never ever noticed lag with my ve.a.

build album here for proof: https://imgur.com/a/lR64b
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: clik_clak on Tue, 27 November 2018, 12:03:13
I'm in, provided that SATA is replaced with USB. I don't believe the cable is responsible for the lag, obviously,  it's just a couple piece of wire,  but sata ports are incredibly flimsy.

I think it's clear from this thread that the IC starter is not very motivated to change the SATA connector to USB.

I like retro computing as much as most people here, but this dedication to SATA of all things is just something else.

Also, I saw the logo update, and I still find it extremely cringey. Do people really enjoy seeing all those visible holes on their expensive keyboards? Paging r/trypophobia

Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=98324.0;attach=207817;image)


This is by far the worst R2 I've ever seen. All the complaints from R1 were ignored, with extra new stuffs that nobody asked for or wanted.

Then don't buy it, simple as that. Let your wallet do your talking for you.

He's not going to have any problems selling the ones he does though.

So you're saying we should ONLY say positive things in IC threads? Are you so against criticism?

Can't you stop thinking in black and white and understand that I'm posting here because I really want to get a VE.A ever since OP teased R2 on the VE.A thread since last year or so?

I'm just seriously annoyed at how there is seemingly zero worthy improvement to this kit after all this time, and now some people are dismissing criticism as 'fake news' of all things. Ugh.

It is fake news until you can prove it's not. Go ahead and show all this magical proof that its the SATA cable that's causing the lag. Once you can do that, you may have a valid point.

I've already pointed out that people have experienced similar lag with other pcb's with similar firmware/hardware...and those aren't even split boards. Hell, how can we even say its the keyboard itself? Maybe the people experiencing lag are using a motherboard with a certain USB controller that has issues with the firmware? Maybe they're plugging into s USB hub that's causing lag. Maybe there's 20 other causes for the lag that haven't been considered to anyone.

You can be as negative as you want. Don't expect everyone to agree with you, and if you have such huge complaints, there's nothing stopping you from designing your own board with all the fixes you would like to see made. I'm 100% positive you'd have no problems selling these in mass if you can get everything made...Just like this seller is going to have no problem all of these ones as well.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Tue, 27 November 2018, 12:18:35

It is fake news until you can prove it's not. Go ahead and show all this magical proof that its the SATA cable that's causing the lag. Once you can do that, you may have a valid point.

I've already pointed out that people have experienced similar lag with other pcb's with similar firmware/hardware...and those aren't even split boards. Hell, how can we even say its the keyboard itself? Maybe the people experiencing lag are using a motherboard with a certain USB controller that has issues with the firmware? Maybe they're plugging into s USB hub that's causing lag. Maybe there's 20 other causes for the lag that haven't been considered to anyone.

You can be as negative as you want. Don't expect everyone to agree with you, and if you have such huge complaints, there's nothing stopping you from designing your own board with all the fixes you would like to see made. I'm 100% positive you'd have no problems selling these in mass if you can get everything made...Just like this seller is going to have no problem all of these ones as well.

Well said.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Tue, 27 November 2018, 12:26:09

Lets just ignore the lag thing since everyone seems to be agreed that the firmware fix seems to work. I still have yet to see any good counters to the following:

SATA connectors have a very low lifespan rating.
SATA cables are harder to find in custom sleeves.
SATA cables don't flex very well, making them harder to move and position.

Or, put another way, why should we use SATA over the myriad of other options; USB C, TRRS, Mini USB? The only real reason to use SATA here is because the first one had SATA, so we don't have to redesign the PCB. That said, it seems like there are pretty substantial things being done to the case itself, leading me to think that this is less about cost savings. Either way, we're pretty stuck in the dark unless OP wants to chime in on their preference for SATA.

Not arguing there aren't any better solution than SATA for connector durability.  only arguing there has been no prove that SATA is causing lag.  I can imagine there are plenty of reasons why SATA was chosen and why it is staying as it is.  OP said they are looking into other options.  Whatever else options they investigate, I am sure people including myself will find flaws with them.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Tue, 27 November 2018, 12:27:10
I own one, I have been gaming on the ve.1 v1 for a very long time, never has it once lagged in any game or effected my performance on FPS's at all. I have never ever noticed lag with my ve.a.

build album here for proof: https://imgur.com/a/lR64b

I think discrediting other people's experience(s) because you didn't encounter the same problem is a little naive though, that said if the bootmapper option fixes it reliably (which should be extensively tested by the person running the buy rather than prospect buyers, imo) then it's not really as big a deal - still silly to use SATA, I think pointing out people calling it a "deal breaker" when it obviously has a bunch of challenges that shouldn't be a thing with a board of this quality/price is hardly warranted.

You can be as negative as you want. Don't expect everyone to agree with you, and if you have such huge complaints, there's nothing stopping you from designing your own board with all the fixes you would like to see made. I'm 100% positive you'd have no problems selling these in mass if you can get everything made...Just like this seller is going to have no problem all of these ones as well.

He doesn't need everyone to agree with him, the fact not everyone does doesn't invalidate the fact some do/have experienced the same issue or other problems in general with the SATA cable. I don't understand the political correctness to this extent, you're defending something/someone that doesn't need defending - the idea being pitched is a new VE.A, people are giving input (good and bad) regarding the design and decisions made, just as they do in every other IC which is the whole point. The fact some people seem to think the IC is being "ruined" is ridiculous and worrying.

Just because there'll be enough people buying this revision as it stands doesn't mean sales and/or customer satisfaction wouldn't be higher if the concerns people who WANT to buy one have were addressed. Discrediting critical feedback is exactly what you do not want to do, thankfully OP realises that as per his latest posts.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: switchnollie on Tue, 27 November 2018, 12:36:28
Either way, we're pretty stuck in the dark unless OP wants to chime in on their preference for SATA.

My man fought the last boss of kb-kustoms to get there.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79183.msg2042517#msg2042517
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: LightningXI on Tue, 27 November 2018, 12:40:35
I personally don't know enough about the matter to be able to answer this but it's widely accepted as fact from the other owners I've spoken to who know a lot more than I do - surely someone can chime in considering the amount comments that have already been made against.

OK.  This is basically hearsay and somehow it is believed to be fact.  This is how fake news come to be. 

There is no prove so far that I can see any lag is due to using a SATA connection between the two halves.  If it is because of the SATA connection, then it would happen only (or most of the time) on the right half and not the left half.   You can use the left half of the keyboard without connecting the right half.  Hitting the Q key for example doesn't require the SATA cable so there should be no lag typing on the left half.


Speaking specifically on this -- I do not have my own VE.A anymore as of the past month, but I experienced this specifically -- when typing a word like "sole" it would type as "soel" -- the right hand side would lag behind the left when typing. I wish I did have the keyboard to test it out for people. I am personally more concerned about the longevity of a SATA connector given the fewer number of insertion cycles it can handle on a basis of mechanical stress.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 27 November 2018, 12:47:34
I don't own a VE.A, but it's clear that whatever latency issues there might be are firmware-related or due to some other components than SATA cables.  Even if it were actual SATA communication (which apparently it's not anyway), even the first generation of SATA interface was able to transmit 1.5Gbit per second, which is far more information than relatively simple keyboard communication requires.  It should be more of convenience and aesthetics design choice to go with something else like USB-C, but it's possible SATA connection was more convenient for the PCB and code designer(s).
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 27 November 2018, 12:53:10

can we please get 4 handed Goro from mortal kombat to test the theoretical "lag" that apparently is produced when typing 200wmp on VE.A v1


The whole thing has pretty noticable inputlag regardless of how quickly you type, easily 30ms higher than any other board I have. If you want proof, sorry I sold it because of that reason about one and a half years ago.


I own one, I have been gaming on the ve.1 v1 for a very long time, never has it once lagged in any game or effected my performance on FPS's at all. I have never ever noticed lag with my ve.a.

build album here for proof: https://imgur.com/a/lR64b

Oh yea, doesn't really impact FPS's at all, I tried playing rhythm games on it and it was impossible, the number of 30ms isn't made up because that's how much my timing shifted backwards when I used that board which made it utter hell to use for that use case.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: MajorKoos on Tue, 27 November 2018, 13:12:57
I don't own a VE.A, but it's clear that whatever latency issues there might be are firmware-related or due to some other components than SATA cables.  Even if it were actual SATA communication (which apparently it's not anyway), even the first generation of SATA interface was able to transmit 1.5Gbit per second, which is far more information than relatively simple keyboard communication requires.  It should be more of convenience and aesthetics design choice to go with something else like USB-C, but it's possible SATA connection was more convenient for the PCB and code designer(s).

SATA was chosen because of the number of conductors in the cable.
They needed enough for both i2c connection between the haves as well as the power and data line for the LEDs.

The connector itself was actually quite problematic from a manufacturing perspective and required that the designers manually modify the connector.  That's why everyone is asking about SATA - it was already a problem back then.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: NAV on Tue, 27 November 2018, 15:21:37
I'm in, provided that SATA is replaced with USB. I don't believe the cable is responsible for the lag, obviously,  it's just a couple piece of wire,  but sata ports are incredibly flimsy.

I think it's clear from this thread that the IC starter is not very motivated to change the SATA connector to USB.

I like retro computing as much as most people here, but this dedication to SATA of all things is just something else.

Also, I saw the logo update, and I still find it extremely cringey. Do people really enjoy seeing all those visible holes on their expensive keyboards? Paging r/trypophobia

Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=98324.0;attach=207817;image)


This is by far the worst R2 I've ever seen. All the complaints from R1 were ignored, with extra new stuffs that nobody asked for or wanted.

Then don't buy it, simple as that. Let your wallet do your talking for you.

He's not going to have any problems selling the ones he does though.

So you're saying we should ONLY say positive things in IC threads? Are you so against criticism?

Can't you stop thinking in black and white and understand that I'm posting here because I really want to get a VE.A ever since OP teased R2 on the VE.A thread since last year or so?

I'm just seriously annoyed at how there is seemingly zero worthy improvement to this kit after all this time, and now some people are dismissing criticism as 'fake news' of all things. Ugh.

It is fake news until you can prove it's not. Go ahead and show all this magical proof that its the SATA cable that's causing the lag. Once you can do that, you may have a valid point.

I've already pointed out that people have experienced similar lag with other pcb's with similar firmware/hardware...and those aren't even split boards. Hell, how can we even say its the keyboard itself? Maybe the people experiencing lag are using a motherboard with a certain USB controller that has issues with the firmware? Maybe they're plugging into s USB hub that's causing lag. Maybe there's 20 other causes for the lag that haven't been considered to anyone.

You can be as negative as you want. Don't expect everyone to agree with you, and if you have such huge complaints, there's nothing stopping you from designing your own board with all the fixes you would like to see made. I'm 100% positive you'd have no problems selling these in mass if you can get everything made...Just like this seller is going to have no problem all of these ones as well.


Did you even bother to read the post you replied to? nguyenhimself did not mention the latency issue whatsoever. There were other critiques - the SATA issue is not just because of the latency, but also for replugging and aesthetics. Additionally, he/she mentioned the logo change which has been extremely controversial in the comments.

Don't dismiss criticism just because you want to give that succ. As said previously in this topic, just because something sells doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 27 November 2018, 15:26:56
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Tue, 27 November 2018, 15:35:29
The Chinese copied you, and they did a better job!!!!

The Chinese copied you, and it looks like crap.*


FTFY
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: wholypantalones on Tue, 27 November 2018, 15:58:04
The Chinese copied you, and they did a better job!!!!

The Chinese copied you, and it looks like crap.*


FTFY

Since we're throwing opinions around; aside from the logo, it's actually not that bad.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: KaosJ on Tue, 27 November 2018, 16:00:55
100% disappointed in this, expected a lot from the 2' round and nothing which could say "buy me", I apolagize in advance but i'll be heavily critical about this:

- No important updates at all, same design more or less. 
- The only update makes no sense (nameplate), it's kinda ugly, at least make it brass or copper at the same height of the case to give it any sense. 
- NO BRASS used at all: no brass plates, no brass weights, no brass nameplate.
- All this time and the feets still makes no sense, at least make it in a way which should support the natural inclination too (once the keyboard is joined). 
- Probably mini USB + Sata? Sure is this 2005 afterall, why Type-C, why whatever connector superior to Sata (or pogopins which is old tech which looks good)
- BootMapperClient. Sure who wants QMK afterall /s
- Only Stainless steel plate, ok.

 :rolleyes:


Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: superdoedoe on Tue, 27 November 2018, 16:21:38
+1 to getting away from SATA
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ykill on Tue, 27 November 2018, 16:37:53
SATA is not a cable that's made to be handled. It's meant to be inside the case.  Keyboards aren't inside most people's PC/Mac computer cases (Linux people might have a keyboard inside and outside of their computer (I'm one of them))

Since we do move our keyboards occasionally, then it would make sense to use a more durable cable.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: heyitsqi on Tue, 27 November 2018, 16:41:07
Was super hyped as I've always wanted a VE.A but just to echo some of the feedback

SATA: If there's lag that's problematic but the fact that it's SATA and not something like USB-C is kind of annoying
BMC: I much rather prefer QMK since I use a ton of QMK features but that's just my own usage
Brass: Would be nice to give heft. One big compliant I have of my Ergodox EZ is it just feels so damn light/cheap but again I accept that that's a me issue.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: tchalikias on Tue, 27 November 2018, 19:07:03
The Chinese copied you, and they did a better job!!!!

The Chinese copied you, and it looks like crap.*


FTFY

Since we're throwing opinions around; aside from the logo, it's actually not that bad.

I have to say that in hand this feels pretty solid all around, and it's obvious that it's creator paid attention to quite a few details. As for the logo, while I do not like it, it does not bother me at all.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Dymloslouire on Wed, 28 November 2018, 02:29:21
Just my opinion..

VE.A is easily identified because it have its SATA cables. it's basically it's identity.
if oddforge changes his design, the keyboard is just another '75% split' keyboard. it will lose its identity.
might be weird things to say, but yeah.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 07:41:36
lol @ all the people *****ing about there being no brass in this

SATA is one of the coolest parts of the original VE.A design, no complaints with that here.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nathanchere on Wed, 28 November 2018, 08:50:50
Finally! :D
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: joostflux on Wed, 28 November 2018, 09:39:23
I am definitely interested in this!
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: fireworm on Wed, 28 November 2018, 10:05:03
Just my opinion..

VE.A is easily identified because it have its SATA cables. it's basically it's identity.
if oddforge changes his design, the keyboard is just another '75% split' keyboard. it will lose its identity.
might be weird things to say, but yeah.
Dude what are you talking about.

How many "split 75s" are there? Two? This and the acrylic Chinese version? Please, point me to another metal frame split keyboard, aside from the Dygma Raise. Anywhere.

This one is clearly higher quality, supports alps. And is actually (hopefully) going the be available (unlike, any other split custom keyboard).

How many 60s are there with barely distinguish differences? Klippe Vs TOFU?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: schoolbus on Wed, 28 November 2018, 10:19:16
Just my opinion..

VE.A is easily identified because it have its SATA cables. it's basically it's identity.
if oddforge changes his design, the keyboard is just another '75% split' keyboard. it will lose its identity.
might be weird things to say, but yeah.
Dude what are you talking about.

How many "split 75s" are there? Two? This and the acrylic Chinese version? Please, point me to another metal frame split keyboard, aside from the Dygma Raise. Anywhere.

This one is clearly higher quality, supports alps. And is actually (hopefully) going the be available (unlike, any other split custom keyboard).

How many 60s are there with barely distinguish differences? Klippe Vs TOFU?

There's also the DeltaSplit75 that uses the 3.5mm TRRS cable to connect like let's split.

I think there are many other "distinguishable" features of the VE.A that set it apart and give it it's identity. The biggest complaint of the board is the SATA cable, plain and simple.

It's still the original modern iconic 75% split keyboard as it was the original and still remains the ideal/best IMO.

I don't think there are really that many people who want the keyboard because it uses SATA.

Someone please prove me wrong, but when a VE.A is first spotted by a newcomer the reaction is usually talking about how it's a cool split designed keyboard, not that it uses a cable normally used inside your computer.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ejewell89 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 10:38:55
disappointed in the SATA cable usage.

also would have liked something different from v1. It's not particularly distinguishable imo.

I've been holding out on a v1 waiting for v2 and now i'm just feeling let down.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:28:14
Want to just add that I really like the SATA connector and don't care if it's not optimal. For me the board is 100% about design and I like the look of the SATA connector on my VE.A. now, and like that the 2nd one looks like it will have one as well.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Wicky on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:50:41
SATA isn't my preference but I don't mind it as long as the lag above 100 wpm is fixed. The logo is definitely a step down as well. It just looks so out of place on an otherwise clean board.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: fireworm on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:55:25

There's also the DeltaSplit75 that uses the 3.5mm TRRS cable to connect like let's split.


Didn't see that one.  Looked it up, and looks like it was just the PCB; no case.

Anyway, my point is 'split staggered' keyboards come around (it seems) once a year, so I'll likely take what I can get...  Unlike the insane amount of 'let's split' kits, or 'helidox' kits, 60% 'with side leds', TKL's, etc.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Araex on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:00:28
I registered on this site just to make a comment for this lol.

I've been looking forward for this (ergo/split 75% is my preference), and I also think SATA is part of what makes VE.A unique (assuming it's not the cause of possible latency).

But that logo and the mini-USB port is holding this back from being an end-game board.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: AuthenticDanger on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:28:46
But that logo and the mini-USB port is holding this back from being an end-game board.

How is mini-usb holding it back?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Araex on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:35:59
But that logo and the mini-USB port is holding this back from being an end-game board.

How is mini-usb holding it back?

Big part of it for me is aesthetic; USB-C looks significantly better than mini.

And on the practical side, USB-mini just aren't very commonly used, so that factors into carrying an extra cable, switching cables when switching keyboards, etc.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: fireworm on Wed, 28 November 2018, 13:23:05
I registered on this site just to make a comment for this lol.

I've been looking forward for this (ergo/split 75% is my preference), and I also think SATA is part of what makes VE.A unique (assuming it's not the cause of possible latency).

But that logo and the mini-USB port is holding this back from being an end-game board.

Welcome to the rabbit hole!  :)

??? Last year, all 'end game' boards were USB-micro / USB-mini. 

IMO, 'end-game' is about switches, caps, board materials, THEN (important, but not the most important), aesthetics / logos, layouts, THEN, cabling, LED's.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: AuthenticDanger on Wed, 28 November 2018, 13:54:08
I also think SATA is part of what makes VE.A unique (assuming it's not the cause of possible latency).

And on the practical side, USB-mini just aren't very commonly used, so that factors into carrying an extra cable, switching cables when switching keyboards, etc.

Arguing FOR SATA connectors and then saying that USB-mini shouldn't be used because it "just aren't very commonly used" is crazy. USB mini is worlds above micro in terms of use and durability.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Araex on Wed, 28 November 2018, 14:18:08
I registered on this site just to make a comment for this lol.

I've been looking forward for this (ergo/split 75% is my preference), and I also think SATA is part of what makes VE.A unique (assuming it's not the cause of possible latency).

But that logo and the mini-USB port is holding this back from being an end-game board.

Welcome to the rabbit hole!  :)

??? Last year, all 'end game' boards were USB-micro / USB-mini. 

IMO, 'end-game' is about switches, caps, board materials, THEN (important, but not the most important), aesthetics / logos, layouts, THEN, cabling, LED's.

Thanks!  I feel like type-c in general only really picked up popularity the 2nd half of this year, so I can understand why mini/macro are still popular choices.

And I agree with your end-game priority; I'm waiting for my switches tester to come so I don't blindly buy switches!

I also think SATA is part of what makes VE.A unique (assuming it's not the cause of possible latency).

And on the practical side, USB-mini just aren't very commonly used, so that factors into carrying an extra cable, switching cables when switching keyboards, etc.

Arguing FOR SATA connectors and then saying that USB-mini shouldn't be used because it "just aren't very commonly used" is crazy. USB mini is worlds above micro in terms of use and durability.

I've accrued a number of custom SATA cables from building PCs over the years, so maybe that's why I like it and think it adds a unique flair to the keyboard.

And I didn't advocate for USB-micro; if I'd have it my way, it'd use the lighting connector since it's the least flimsy connector of all the common used data cables, and type-c being the practical preference.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 28 November 2018, 15:24:18
On a positive note I do like the new cutout shape for the lighting.
That's a nice improvement over R1.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: KaosJ on Wed, 28 November 2018, 15:53:20
I also think SATA is part of what makes VE.A unique (assuming it's not the cause of possible latency).

And on the practical side, USB-mini just aren't very commonly used, so that factors into carrying an extra cable, switching cables when switching keyboards, etc.

Arguing FOR SATA connectors and then saying that USB-mini shouldn't be used because it "just aren't very commonly used" is crazy. USB mini is worlds above micro in terms of use and durability.

but also worlds below type-c
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: bthezebra on Wed, 28 November 2018, 16:13:53
Welcome back painmaster!
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 28 November 2018, 16:29:44
It's going to be a while if and when we see anything.

Do you know this definitively? or are you just speculating?


Thank you! I saw this one but I thought the price was a bit high...but I guess that seems to be the only good baseline. 750 is enough to build a decent PC lol.

I spent $700 on mine, which is actually more than I was trying to put a PC together for =P

Considering the time it was simply between the korean VeA GB and the Massdrop one, the time the IC was on here etc.  It'll be a whole while.

The exception would be a R2, but he's denied it over and over

and over again  :blank:

The thing is... we actually got several(hmm... yeh, tens)  requests about stock or next round.
We released about 200 VE.As to geeky-mates all over the world. AND really proud of it :)
We don't care about rarity. But it's a bit old now. For a year and a half, we stuck in one model.
And VE.A is not suitable for production, SATA connector needs to be cut by BARE hands. and it's bugging me. and of course, was hard to handle.
So...
It's like chain-reaction kind of thing.
We want it to be fixed. Yeh.
That means, we need to fix cases also.
If we have to fix case, why not design a new one?
Thoughts reached here so far, still not ended. like cost, tilting, material, diffusing and so on.
And most of all, I am such a lazy bastard.
We are hoping you don't lose interests on us before we come back.

Hey, what a nice day to swim in thick smog! Damn. I got bad throat ouch.

This is the conversation I keep thinking of when discussing the SATA connection.

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: cirrus82 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 17:29:49
These are personal desires/priorities. There are a lot of statements in this thread made as if they're speaking for the majority. Hope PainMaster tallies these up for themselves.

1. If there are latency issues, I'd hope they'd be addressed. I would be really surprised if this were due to the type of cable. Sounds like firmware would be more likely to blame.
2. The reliability of the SATA connector breaking is secondary, but it would be nice if this could be addressed since this is a v2.
3. Trendy materials (like Brass) don't matter if they don't fit the designer's vision for the board. I personally don't care for it on this product.
4. Seems like the "armored" theme was carried on to the logo, but I still feel that aesthetically it's a mismatch with the sleekness of the rest of the board. I'd like to see what it looks like without it since they are replaceable.

Overall, the excitement for this board is palpable. Don't let the negativity get you down PainMaster, you clearly have a product people want and will have no problem finding demand.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 28 November 2018, 17:53:15
These are personal desires/priorities. There are a lot of statements in this thread made as if they're speaking for the majority. Hope PainMaster tallies these up for themselves.

1. If there are latency issues, I'd hope they'd be addressed. I would be really surprised if this were due to the type of cable. Sounds like firmware would be more likely to blame.
2. The reliability of the SATA connector breaking is secondary, but it would be nice if this could be addressed since this is a v2.
3. Trendy materials (like Brass) don't matter if they don't fit the designer's vision for the board. I personally don't care for it on this product.
4. Seems like the "armored" theme was carried on to the logo, but I still feel that aesthetically it's a mismatch with the sleekness of the rest of the board. I'd like to see what it looks like without it since they are replaceable.

Overall, the excitement for this board is palpable. Don't let the negativity get you down PainMaster, you clearly have a product people want and will have no problem finding demand.

You offered both positive and negative input, however the remainder of people's concerns are "negativity" which shouldn't get "OP down" because he'll still sell keyboards no matter how much can be improved upon with a little more work put in. Sounds a little contradictory, maybe even hypocritical, does it not? No one's been rude in this thread at all, I'm not sure where the notion PainMaster is a damsel in distress in need of rescue from the evil people who want the best for him and his keyboard and want him to succeed is coming from, as stated prior.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Kavik on Wed, 28 November 2018, 22:47:23
I will be in for one for sure.

I like the slight tenting.

I am somewhat indifferent about the nameplate. If I had to choose, I'd say the original was slightly better, mostly because it was flatter and it had space for the whole name "VE.A" instead of just "VE". If the new one could be countersunk into the case a bit with a smaller font to fit the whole name, that would be cool.

I don't care what cable connects the two halves.

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dallman5 on Thu, 29 November 2018, 00:48:04
disappointed in the SATA cable usage.

also would have liked something different from v1. It's not particularly distinguishable imo.

I've been holding out on a v1 waiting for v2 and now i'm just feeling let down.

Agreed, especially on that last point :feelsbadman:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Delirious on Thu, 29 November 2018, 16:50:21
Hi, the SATA cable is so bad, I have to switch back to mini USB cables. Now my table is full of cable.





help

(https://i.imgur.com/SVAXALg.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: forevermadrigal on Thu, 29 November 2018, 17:37:56
Hi, the SATA cable is so bad, I have to switch back to mini USB cables. Now my table is full of cable.





help

More
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/SVAXALg.jpg)

Maximum efficiency poggers
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Spaghetti on Thu, 29 November 2018, 17:39:33
The removable logo might as well be a cyst for all it lends to the case aesthetically
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ArchDill on Thu, 29 November 2018, 18:00:49
This design seems like a step backward from the first. It is still rad, but it seems "cheaper" looking compared to V1
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Gajible on Thu, 29 November 2018, 18:24:49
This design seems like a step backward from the first. It is still rad, but it seems "cheaper" looking compared to V1

Definitely. I wonder how much of the bottom case is actually machined, as well?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 29 November 2018, 20:00:37
This design seems like a step backward from the first. It is still rad, but it seems "cheaper" looking compared to V1

Definitely. I wonder how much of the bottom case is actually machined, as well?

it's a nine part case, so the tenting screws into the bottom
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: rmendis on Thu, 29 November 2018, 21:14:28
On a positive note I do like the new cutout shape for the lighting.
That's a nice improvement over R1.

Interesting. I prefer the straight sleekness of the v1 cutout, over the v2.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: keubibo on Fri, 30 November 2018, 06:33:14
 :D please use USB cable and RGB switch too, it will be more attractive i think.
and the old logo too. thanks :D
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: krisst on Fri, 30 November 2018, 09:15:38
I have been using VE.A almost exclusively even since I got it from the last GB. Have no issue with input lag. I did use the BootmapperClient 0.10.0 with the Debounce Setting set to "1". This might have helped.

I don't mind the SATA cable choice to connect the 2 halves, most of the time, it does not move on my table. I would be nice to see design change to use other connections. Is it possible to use Type-C to connect them? That would be an upgrade.

I do feel that most custom cable sites do not have custom Type-C cable yet, hope to see more sites offer that as more keyboard GB are heading that way.

I read somewhere before the A in VE.A means armor. Many previous iterations are made of acrylic. Personally do not like the new logo, also don't see the need for interchangeable logo. This will just increase cost of production.

Looks like the changes will be small for this run. Probably not going to join unless there is a huge improvement. If it is up to me, I would just keep the same design as the last one, change all connections to Type-C. Both input and connecting the halves.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Mr_BeastQuake on Fri, 30 November 2018, 10:13:16
Pricing info? Is there limited availability? Is the sale run on the website? Lead times?

Can connect the two halves with a ****ing spaghetti noodle if itís $20 and ships to my doorstep same day.

I liked the v1 and I like the v2 even if the look isnít drastically different. Is there the connectable wrist rests? Or whatís the full kit?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 30 November 2018, 11:12:47
Slightly off-topic but quite related:

Only if this Ultimate Hacking keyboard has completed R&D phase for all its modules, and has two function key columns on the left like the VE.A and arrow keys on the right, and then with a sandwiched metal case construction.
(https://www.crowdsupply.com/img/e94f/addon-modules-2-white-1_png_open-graph.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: keubibo on Sat, 01 December 2018, 01:02:04
Slightly off-topic but quite related:

Only if this Ultimate Hacking keyboard has completed R&D phase for all its modules, and has two function key columns on the left like the VE.A and arrow keys on the right, and then with a sandwiched metal case construction.
Show Image
(https://www.crowdsupply.com/img/e94f/addon-modules-2-white-1_png_open-graph.jpg)


:D i prefer arrow key than that ! btw it's cool design too
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Little4Real on Tue, 04 December 2018, 19:12:43
I can care less about the logo, but USB-C and QMK are all that I would want
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Skull_Angel on Wed, 05 December 2018, 01:52:18
Since the number of wires is what's important, wouldn't CAT/ethernet cable work? It's much easier to get custom lengths for than most peripheral cables, easier to work with for custom diy (imo). Though I'm not sure if it is much more durable since it is also solid-core wire, iirc.

I personally have no issue with SATA; if you build your own PCs you have tons laying around and they're cheap as dirt, if not.

Edit: it looks like you can get CAT7 wire in stranded core, so that nixes the durability issue.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 05 December 2018, 03:03:09
Since the number of wires is what's important, wouldn't CAT/ethernet cable work? It's much easier to get custom lengths for than most peripheral cables, easier to work with for custom diy (imo). Though I'm not sure if it is much more durable since it is also solid-core wire, iirc.

I personally have no issue with SATA; if you build your own PCs you have tons laying around and they're cheap as dirt, if not.

Edit: it looks like you can get CAT7 wire in stranded core, so that nixes the durability issue.

i offer a counterpoint

USB or TRRS

sensible common connectors you can find at a drugstore if you need one in a pinch
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 05 December 2018, 06:28:34
Is it possible to use TRRS?
It can be a robust solution.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 05 December 2018, 07:51:53
using USB or TRRS would make the VE.A look like basically every other split board ever made. BORING.

Keep SATA. #SATAdidnothingwrong
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Skull_Angel on Wed, 05 December 2018, 10:07:34
Since the number of wires is what's important, wouldn't CAT/ethernet cable work? It's much easier to get custom lengths for than most peripheral cables, easier to work with for custom diy (imo). Though I'm not sure if it is much more durable since it is also solid-core wire, iirc.

I personally have no issue with SATA; if you build your own PCs you have tons laying around and they're cheap as dirt, if not.

Edit: it looks like you can get CAT7 wire in stranded core, so that nixes the durability issue.

i offer a counterpoint

USB or TRRS

sensible common connectors you can find at a drugstore if you need one in a pinch

Search criteria; https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79183.msg2042517#msg2042517

I see the main reason as being cost of cable and ease of finding it at reasonable cost. 5-pin TRRS-to-TRRS isn't exactly common place and USB-to-USB isn't any cheaper than SATA (it isn't common in B&M stores anymore either).
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 05 December 2018, 13:11:50
Since the number of wires is what's important, wouldn't CAT/ethernet cable work? It's much easier to get custom lengths for than most peripheral cables, easier to work with for custom diy (imo). Though I'm not sure if it is much more durable since it is also solid-core wire, iirc.

I personally have no issue with SATA; if you build your own PCs you have tons laying around and they're cheap as dirt, if not.

Edit: it looks like you can get CAT7 wire in stranded core, so that nixes the durability issue.

i offer a counterpoint

USB or TRRS

sensible common connectors you can find at a drugstore if you need one in a pinch

Search criteria; https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79183.msg2042517#msg2042517

I see the main reason as being cost of cable and ease of finding it at reasonable cost. 5-pin TRRS-to-TRRS isn't exactly common place and USB-to-USB isn't any cheaper than SATA (it isn't common in B&M stores anymore either).

other split boards use them and they have no problems though
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: fireworm on Wed, 05 December 2018, 13:22:15
Since the number of wires is what's important, wouldn't CAT/ethernet cable work? It's much easier to get custom lengths for than most peripheral cables, easier to work with for custom diy (imo). Though I'm not sure if it is much more durable since it is also solid-core wire, iirc.

I personally have no issue with SATA; if you build your own PCs you have tons laying around and they're cheap as dirt, if not.

Edit: it looks like you can get CAT7 wire in stranded core, so that nixes the durability issue.

i offer a counterpoint

USB or TRRS

sensible common connectors you can find at a drugstore if you need one in a pinch

Search criteria; https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79183.msg2042517#msg2042517

I see the main reason as being cost of cable and ease of finding it at reasonable cost. 5-pin TRRS-to-TRRS isn't exactly common place and USB-to-USB isn't any cheaper than SATA (it isn't common in B&M stores anymore either).

USB-C has 24 pins.

#bringBackTheParallelPort.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Skull_Angel on Wed, 05 December 2018, 16:08:39

other split boards use them and they have no problems though

What? This is more of a financial decision, if you ask me.



USB-C has 24 pins.

#bringBackTheParallelPort.

Yes, it does, but the connector can be flipped. Since the connector is just a connector and doesn't use special protocol, I could see that possibly causing problems.

____________________
I don't pretend to have the answers since I'm not the designer, but reasoning out the decision from what's been listed makes enough sense. SATA is the most economical choice, with the only real concern being durability; from first hand experience, I've only had issues with durability of the connector on old SATA 1 (unshrouded) vertical connectors where dealing with wire management ended up bending/breaking the connector from snagging the cable (yes, you can be clumsy and still build PCs, haha), which is something I've yet to experience with SATA 2/3 (shrouded) connectors.

Imo, you're more likely to end up breaking the wire (because solid core doesn't like to be bent a lot) than have the connector fail on you.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: AfroMax on Thu, 06 December 2018, 04:19:21
whats the size of the space bar ?and what keycaps sets should fit it ?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: switchnollie on Thu, 06 December 2018, 12:44:32
using USB or TRRS would make the VE.A look like basically every other split board ever made. BORING.

Keep SATA. #SATAdidnothingwrong

They's already done it with our TKLs, keep the VE.A stylin :cool:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dubious on Fri, 07 December 2018, 20:27:34
I think some people forgot this was an Interest Check and not a ****-in-this-thread kinda post   :))

It would be nice to see some hard evidence of latency issues because I feel like it's a little overblown. I've used my VE.A as a daily driver at work since the initial GB without any latency issues over 100wpm. If there is any delay, it's not because of a SATA cable. Like other people have pointed out a SATA cable's throughput exceeds what is needed for sending row/column info. Oddforge has said it's not using the SATA protocol, so if any delay is present it's probably caused by firmware or how the connection is implemented. (I believe each side has a separate controller with one forwarding data to the other, which seems the more likely culprit, but I might be remembering this wrong and I don't have mine in front of me.)

I feel like the longevity of the plug is also not as big of an issue as it's being made out to be. For some people who relocate or travel with their keyboards it's probably a warranted concern. But if you aren't regularly plugging/unplugging your keyboard or manhandling the cables, you should be fine. I've taken mine to/from work dozens of times without issue, but YMMV.

I am definitely interested in getting a second VE.A as it's been one of my favorite kustoms to own and use.

Dat logo ugly tho...
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Puddsy on Fri, 07 December 2018, 23:58:13
I think some people forgot this was an Interest Check and not a ****-in-this-thread kinda post   :))

It would be nice to see some hard evidence of latency issues because I feel like it's a little overblown. I've used my VE.A as a daily driver at work since the initial GB without any latency issues over 100wpm. If there is any delay, it's not because of a SATA cable. Like other people have pointed out a SATA cable's throughput exceeds what is needed for sending row/column info. Oddforge has said it's not using the SATA protocol, so if any delay is present it's probably caused by firmware or how the connection is implemented. (I believe each side has a separate controller with one forwarding data to the other, which seems the more likely culprit, but I might be remembering this wrong and I don't have mine in front of me.)

I feel like the longevity of the plug is also not as big of an issue as it's being made out to be. For some people who relocate or travel with their keyboards it's probably a warranted concern. But if you aren't regularly plugging/unplugging your keyboard or manhandling the cables, you should be fine. I've taken mine to/from work dozens of times without issue, but YMMV.

I am definitely interested in getting a second VE.A as it's been one of my favorite kustoms to own and use.

Dat logo ugly tho...

yeah, after a little investigating the lag was most likely due to debounce rate

i travel with a keyboard a lot, so that's what kills me with this

although since i sold my weaven i don't move around with a board much anymore

im with you on p much all points though

i like the logo
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Sat, 08 December 2018, 01:38:23
Black logo plate with the pink enamel fill would look good. Or with the red fill!
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 08 December 2018, 03:07:10
Type C and POGO PINS yo
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nastrovje on Sat, 08 December 2018, 03:36:57
Fix the latency issues and the name badge and I'm in  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: OracleKev on Sat, 08 December 2018, 05:04:20
Fix the latency issues and the name badge and I'm in  :thumb:

+1

EDIT: fix the latency issue if there is one.  It's not clear if there is one or not.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litster on Sat, 08 December 2018, 05:22:39
Please STOP repeating unsubstantiated rumor about lag with VE.A unless you can provide reproducible steps to the VE.A team.  There has been no prove the lag exists other than hearsay.  Show us the prove and steps to reproduce the problem so it can be debugged and fixed.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: switchnollie on Sat, 08 December 2018, 13:56:02
Can someone post a video of them typing with a VE.A and their screen.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 08 December 2018, 14:10:02
Please STOP repeating unsubstantiated rumor about lag with VE.A unless you can provide reproducible steps to the VE.A team.  There has been no prove the lag exists other than hearsay.  Show us the prove and steps to reproduce the problem so it can be debugged and fixed.

when litster posts about it you know it's serious ****

i've been digging for info about it pretty much since this IC came up and i can't find anything other than a few GH/reddit threads with no real proof, and a few people saying that adjusting debounce rate fixes it

in other words, it's not the sata cable
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Sat, 08 December 2018, 14:39:27
I have one and have never noticed any lag. Though I top out at like 70/80 WPM.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: fireworm on Sat, 08 December 2018, 15:27:47
I have one and have never noticed any lag. Though I top out at like 70/80 WPM.
Could you experiment with the debounce, as others have reported, and see if that produces lag?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Sat, 08 December 2018, 16:02:05
I have one and have never noticed any lag. Though I top out at like 70/80 WPM.
Could you experiment with the debounce, as others have reported, and see if that produces lag?

I don't know what debounce is, I don't know that I want to introduce something that would create lag though
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: MajorKoos on Sat, 08 December 2018, 17:04:12
I have one and have never noticed any lag. Though I top out at like 70/80 WPM.
Could you experiment with the debounce, as others have reported, and see if that produces lag?

I don't know what debounce is, I don't know that I want to introduce something that would create lag though

It's a configurable delay built into most firmware to deal with potential ghost keypresses if the keyboard matrix is scanned to often/rapidly.
The theory is that the lag is caused by the debounce delay being set too high and that lowering it will resolve the issue.

[attach=1]

Set it to 1.
If you run into issues with keys being registered multiple times keep bumping it up by 1 until it stops.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: rondg on Sun, 09 December 2018, 00:30:05
Hi guys. Do we have a price for VE.A and when it will run?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Sun, 09 December 2018, 14:38:23
Hi guys. Do we have a price for VE.A and when it will run?

We don't
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ildustry on Sun, 09 December 2018, 18:25:22
Hi! Geek~~~~~!!!!!!!

I`m so glad to tell you in a long time.
I think I should give you an explanation of VE.A2
After finish GB VE.A1, we got a lot of contacts. But as you know, we can not make 10~20 sets easily.
We were worried and decided to make a second keyboard.
We are hoping that the VE.A we made will be used by many people. So we wanted to lower the price, which was too expensive.
The expected price for this VE.A2 is $320(initially I wanted $290).
I did not want to reduce the quality or components as the price went down, and I`m going to do the QC straight.
The apprearance of VE.A2 is similar now, but the part inside has changed a lot.
For example, polycarbonate to fix the comforters when using VE.A 1.

Many conversations are coming and going because of sata cable. Of course we also designed it first with usb-c.
When VE.A1 first came out, sata cable was a big issue. But now I`ve been using the VE.A prototype for the fourth year, but I`ve never felt anyting like a sata cable failure ever called a delay issue.
Also I have never heard of delayed issues with email or any other path.(I was surprised to hear about this IC for the first time)
It is a design part to keep using sata. I did not want the shape of the aluminum case to be strange because of the round shape of usb-c.
Since the sata slots are rectangular, we thought it was advantageous to connect "exectly" to VE.A.

I`m really sorry about the loge... I think it was missing details.
We thought it would be nice to have something "color" in the aluminum case.
However, in order to put the color directly on the body, there was a risk that one piece of the top board could be discarded
I wanted to be assembled in small pieces, and the complicated use of colors was because you wanted to be able to see and see the colors.
Of course, if you do not put the color like the VE.A1, you can use it as before. You can choice.

Tendin kits are included in the basic kit as well. I wanted to include a tinting kit when doing vea1, but due to the weight of the tinting kit
I had a problem with shipping too much, so I wanted to fix it in vea2.
Four pieces of tinting kits can be tilted to the left and right and can be tilted up and down. I'll take a more detailed picture of this.

There are many factors that raise prices (veins, tenting parts, color logos, etc.) than vea1.
I wanted to reduce the price from $ 420 to $ 320. Many people wanted to use it.
We know that users who use vea1 do not have a lot of special elements to buy vea2.

We talk again, but we have a job and do not want to make money on the keyboard.
But I do not want to make things out of quality or problems. I hope you like VE.A.

We will try to reconsider the delay issue and sata cable replacement again.

Thanks!

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 09 December 2018, 19:36:18
We will try to reconsider the delay issue and sata cable replacement again.

Thanks!

Thank you for reaching out to the community - I personally appreciate the fact you're willing to work with what people that really do love the VE.A to try and solve or work on the things people seem to have issues with.

As stated previously I personally admit to having jumped to conclusions fairly quickly in that the SATA cable is to blame for the lag I (and others) experienced, based off of conversations I saw/took part in previously where I took people's knowledge of the problem for granted without considering they may not be completely correct and that's my bad. That said, if the implementation and/or firmware is the cause and not the physical SATA cable itself, however you choose to resolve this is alright with me. I'd like to see it gone in favour of a different connector for the reasons people have hammered on in previous pages that I don't need to repeat but I trust your judgement. Truth be told, I do also think SATA looks really cool and is unique, as well as it being part of why the board is so legendary.

Addressing the logo, to me and in my opinion the main issue is not so much the colour as it is the fact it sticks out far too high compared to the rest of the board and in that it breaks the beautiful streamlined top down view of the original VE.A - if it was sunk into the case (if that is possible, I don't know if it is), or just much shorter in height, I think people would like it more. At least I would. Would it also potentially be possible to offer monochrome and colour version of the badges so that people could choose for themselves, or would that mess with the machining etc and move up costs etc?

Lastly, I want to state my appreciation for the price point you are aiming for - with tenting and everything else that is included, for such an iconic board that people really do love and want, I think it's a really telling move that you'd want to go for something as low as $300 when you could easily charge twice as much. That's a big deal to me, and surely for others too.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Dymloslouire on Mon, 10 December 2018, 00:13:38
Hi! Geek~~~~~!!!!!!!

I`m so glad to tell you in a long time.
I think I should give you an explanation of VE.A2
After finish GB VE.A1, we got a lot of contacts. But as you know, we can not make 10~20 sets easily.
We were worried and decided to make a second keyboard.
We are hoping that the VE.A we made will be used by many people. So we wanted to lower the price, which was too expensive.
The expected price for this VE.A2 is $320(initially I wanted $290).
I did not want to reduce the quality or components as the price went down, and I`m going to do the QC straight.
The apprearance of VE.A2 is similar now, but the part inside has changed a lot.
For example, polycarbonate to fix the comforters when using VE.A 1.

Many conversations are coming and going because of sata cable. Of course we also designed it first with usb-c.
When VE.A1 first came out, sata cable was a big issue. But now I`ve been using the VE.A prototype for the fourth year, but I`ve never felt anyting like a sata cable failure ever called a delay issue.
Also I have never heard of delayed issues with email or any other path.(I was surprised to hear about this IC for the first time)
It is a design part to keep using sata. I did not want the shape of the aluminum case to be strange because of the round shape of usb-c.
Since the sata slots are rectangular, we thought it was advantageous to connect "exectly" to VE.A.

I`m really sorry about the loge... I think it was missing details.
We thought it would be nice to have something "color" in the aluminum case.
However, in order to put the color directly on the body, there was a risk that one piece of the top board could be discarded
I wanted to be assembled in small pieces, and the complicated use of colors was because you wanted to be able to see and see the colors.
Of course, if you do not put the color like the VE.A1, you can use it as before. You can choice.

Tendin kits are included in the basic kit as well. I wanted to include a tinting kit when doing vea1, but due to the weight of the tinting kit
I had a problem with shipping too much, so I wanted to fix it in vea2.
Four pieces of tinting kits can be tilted to the left and right and can be tilted up and down. I'll take a more detailed picture of this.

There are many factors that raise prices (veins, tenting parts, color logos, etc.) than vea1.
I wanted to reduce the price from $ 420 to $ 320. Many people wanted to use it.
We know that users who use vea1 do not have a lot of special elements to buy vea2.

We talk again, but we have a job and do not want to make money on the keyboard.
But I do not want to make things out of quality or problems. I hope you like VE.A.

We will try to reconsider the delay issue and sata cable replacement again.

Thanks!




Hi Ildustry,
the price point is sweet. i am not in the market for keyboards anymore (My adventure is coming to an end.) but i might stretch my last budget to get this.

I'll leave the design and the pcb to you.


thanks.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: PainMaster on Mon, 10 December 2018, 01:25:14
In fact,
the biggest change point of VEA2 is
that It's a bottom part design & a lower price than VEA 1st.

(I was talking to ildustry about the price just 5 mins ago.)

I've always wanted to talking about this,
but, I couldn't because of the circumstances.

to my feeling
don't need any more sound absorbing material.
(I can't find a way to explain how enjoyable that point.)

And, nobody mentioned it, so I'm disappointing...
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 10 December 2018, 01:56:41
In fact,
the biggest change point of VEA2 is
that It's a bottom part design & a lower price than VEA 1st.

(I was talking to ildustry about the price just 5 mins ago.)

I've always wanted to talking about this,
but, I couldn't because of the circumstances.

to my feeling
don't need any more sound absorbing material.
(I can't find a way to explain how enjoyable that point.)

And, nobody mentioned it, so I'm disappointing.

I like the design of this one better than VEA1. I'm excited about the tent kit. I'm not a 75% user so I'm probably going to skip this one, but I think people in this thread are vastly underrating it.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Dymloslouire on Mon, 10 December 2018, 02:30:53
In fact,
the biggest change point of VEA2 is
that It's a bottom part design & a lower price than VEA 1st.

(I was talking to ildustry about the price just 5 mins ago.)

I've always wanted to talking about this,
but, I couldn't because of the circumstances.

to my feeling
don't need any more sound absorbing material.
(I can't find a way to explain how enjoyable that point.)

And, nobody mentioned it, so I'm disappointing...

I definitely welcome the lower price point.

about the sound arsorbing, i use my ve.a without any damping at all for full one year. so i don't have any problem about that.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 10 December 2018, 09:11:53
I like the design of this one better than VEA1. I'm excited about the tent kit. I'm not a 75% user so I'm probably going to skip this one, but I think people in this thread are vastly underrating it.

I also like this design better than the VE.A1, apart from the logo. I think it looks great.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: bthezebra on Mon, 10 December 2018, 10:13:03
I am in on this board with or without changing. I would like to have concerns alleviated on the lifespan of SATA connection on the board, don't have issue replacing the cable but if the port can be deemed unusable with a reasonable amount of inserts, then this might be more a display board than daily driver.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: KaosJ on Mon, 10 December 2018, 15:38:59
Hi! Geek~~~~~!!!!!!!

I`m so glad to tell you in a long time.
I think I should give you an explanation of VE.A2
After finish GB VE.A1, we got a lot of contacts. But as you know, we can not make 10~20 sets easily.
We were worried and decided to make a second keyboard.
We are hoping that the VE.A we made will be used by many people. So we wanted to lower the price, which was too expensive.
The expected price for this VE.A2 is $320(initially I wanted $290).
I did not want to reduce the quality or components as the price went down, and I`m going to do the QC straight.
The apprearance of VE.A2 is similar now, but the part inside has changed a lot.
For example, polycarbonate to fix the comforters when using VE.A 1.

Many conversations are coming and going because of sata cable. Of course we also designed it first with usb-c.
When VE.A1 first came out, sata cable was a big issue. But now I`ve been using the VE.A prototype for the fourth year, but I`ve never felt anyting like a sata cable failure ever called a delay issue.
Also I have never heard of delayed issues with email or any other path.(I was surprised to hear about this IC for the first time)
It is a design part to keep using sata. I did not want the shape of the aluminum case to be strange because of the round shape of usb-c.
Since the sata slots are rectangular, we thought it was advantageous to connect "exectly" to VE.A.

I`m really sorry about the loge... I think it was missing details.
We thought it would be nice to have something "color" in the aluminum case.
However, in order to put the color directly on the body, there was a risk that one piece of the top board could be discarded
I wanted to be assembled in small pieces, and the complicated use of colors was because you wanted to be able to see and see the colors.
Of course, if you do not put the color like the VE.A1, you can use it as before. You can choice.

Tendin kits are included in the basic kit as well. I wanted to include a tinting kit when doing vea1, but due to the weight of the tinting kit
I had a problem with shipping too much, so I wanted to fix it in vea2.
Four pieces of tinting kits can be tilted to the left and right and can be tilted up and down. I'll take a more detailed picture of this.

There are many factors that raise prices (veins, tenting parts, color logos, etc.) than vea1.
I wanted to reduce the price from $ 420 to $ 320. Many people wanted to use it.
We know that users who use vea1 do not have a lot of special elements to buy vea2.

We talk again, but we have a job and do not want to make money on the keyboard.
But I do not want to make things out of quality or problems. I hope you like VE.A.

We will try to reconsider the delay issue and sata cable replacement again.

Thanks!



Could we please just get Brass instead of Stainless Steel in the base kit, and have SS as another option? 
I'm like 154320% sure that most of the people prefer brass over SS, sure there might be someone preferring SS, but the big part of the community is crazy for brass.   

There is any chance?

Even if i was disappointed, the price is interesting so i would probably join if there is Brass. 
I can close an eye on ps2avr bootmapper over qmk.
I can close the other one for Mini+Sata picked over better technologies. 
But the lack of brass no, i can't stand the sound of Stainless Steel. 

Also since i'm here, i feel like there is a lot of wasted potential on the feets. If the feets could be somehow adjusted and placed horizontally too and not only vertically, this keyboard could create an angle in every direction (at our choice). For example, once joined the parts, i would like to have a normal keyboard angle, while when the parts are splitted i would like the angle that OP photos shows.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: KingzandBean on Mon, 10 December 2018, 17:02:11
I`m really sorry about the loge... I think it was missing details.
We thought it would be nice to have something "color" in the aluminum case.
However, in order to put the color directly on the body, there was a risk that one piece of the top board could be discarded
I wanted to be assembled in small pieces, and the complicated use of colors was because you wanted to be able to see and see the colors.
Of course, if you do not put the color like the VE.A1, you can use it as before. You can choice.


I am interested in other people weighing in but I think having a color/swappable logo plates isn't the issue per se but the screw holes are v large take up most of the space for the logo so it all looks very cramped and overly "busy." Also the VE.A logo isn't centered in the plate which I think is part of the issue.

Anyway looking forward to this groupbuy
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: asury on Tue, 11 December 2018, 06:29:02
Very interested in the new pricing! thanks for making this more affordable for us!
 :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: CaptRobo on Wed, 12 December 2018, 20:54:06
I'm super interested. I didn't get a chance to grab a v1 and got a clone. The cloke made me love the format, but the quality is lacking for sure. I'll probably go in for 2 or 3 v2s depending on the timing.
Do you have any ideas of when this will run?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: PainMaster on Thu, 13 December 2018, 22:39:09
I'm super interested. I didn't get a chance to grab a v1 and got a clone. The cloke made me love the format, but the quality is lacking for sure. I'll probably go in for 2 or 3 v2s depending on the timing.
Do you have any ideas of when this will run?


The Server Open schedule should be discussed.

The request reception server will be developed within a few days.

It's a little delay than I expected

because I have to develop a program in home after work.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: schoolbus on Fri, 14 December 2018, 08:27:35
I'm super interested. I didn't get a chance to grab a v1 and got a clone. The cloke made me love the format, but the quality is lacking for sure. I'll probably go in for 2 or 3 v2s depending on the timing.
Do you have any ideas of when this will run?


The Server Open schedule should be discussed.

The request reception server will be developed within a few days.

It's a little delay than I expected

because I have to develop a program in home after work.

correct
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Lisinge on Tue, 18 December 2018, 03:39:59
I would love to see USB-C or TRRS  instead of sata, but preferably usb-c.
QMK Would be a dream too, but that's not a make it or break it for me.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dubious on Tue, 18 December 2018, 12:11:34
I'm like 154320% sure that most of the people prefer brass over SS

speak for yourself  :p
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Mr_BeastQuake on Tue, 18 December 2018, 18:31:07
I'm like 154320% sure that most of the people prefer brass over SS

speak for yourself  :p

SS over brass. Though I'm pretty sure with the direction the VE.A 2nd is taking that I'll be interested no matter wut.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 23 December 2018, 11:47:39
I'm like 154320% sure that most of the people prefer brass over SS

speak for yourself  :p

CF over both tbh
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: kokugatsu on Sun, 23 December 2018, 11:48:56
I'm like 154320% sure that most of the people prefer brass over SS

speak for yourself  :p

CF over both tbh
Y tho
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 23 December 2018, 11:50:18
I'm like 154320% sure that most of the people prefer brass over SS

speak for yourself  :p

CF over both tbh
Y tho

I like the sound and it looks cool
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: get_weird on Tue, 25 December 2018, 00:45:35
Will the GB be run through massdrop again, or a new website like typemachina?

Also, how many colors for the nameplate will be offered? I saw a couple different ones in the old thread.

Anyways, this is all very exciting  :thumb:

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: idlemao on Tue, 01 January 2019, 20:18:28
Would this be alps compatible or include an alps plate/pcb?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Anakey on Wed, 02 January 2019, 02:10:14
Would this be alps compatible or include an alps plate/pcb?

From the first post

Cherry MX / Alps SKCx Compatible
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Geekmie on Sat, 05 January 2019, 12:19:29
I am gonna be all-in this time!
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Tue, 08 January 2019, 17:47:44
SATA is a very flimsy connector.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: rawrjau on Wed, 09 January 2019, 02:29:17
What case colours will be offered this time around?

Dream board, new logo or not!
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: japancakes on Wed, 09 January 2019, 22:00:49
Really looking forward to this. Curious about case colors.

I'm also not sure about the case shape around the acrylic in the front and back going from smaller to bigger. It's kind of busy and makes the design look less clean.

Anyway, still going to get one. lol.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: donutholer on Mon, 14 January 2019, 22:20:33
is the r1 pcb the exact same as the r2 pcb? I need another pcb for the r1 ve.a, so it'd be great if they were the same.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: HomerSp on Tue, 15 January 2019, 17:05:58
Yes please - I missed buying the first one, but I will definitely be getting this one. And like others have said here, I would prefer USB-C over SATA, but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: DPetford on Wed, 16 January 2019, 05:07:25
Interested! Generally agree on previous comments suggesting the logo aesthetic needing a change and connecting cable being updated to USB-C.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ReDsNoTDeAd on Wed, 16 January 2019, 09:01:04
Totally in for this!
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: oHimari on Fri, 18 January 2019, 20:28:27
Look pretty great. But I still prefer USB-C over mini-USB and SATA for durability and more off-the-shelf cable options to chose from(like magnetic, glowing, flat USB-C cable).
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: switchnollie on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:43:23
Will the GB be run through massdrop again, or a new website like typemachina?

Also, how many colors for the nameplate will be offered? I saw a couple different ones in the old thread.

Anyways, this is all very exciting  :thumb:

Should look sweet with some colorful GMK mod sets :cool:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: _GMK_ on Sat, 19 January 2019, 14:17:27
winkeyless is out of business, so I'm not sure that it's a good idea to use his firmware
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: FoC_Tow on Sun, 20 January 2019, 08:37:09
Im down!

Soldering a v1 right now O_O
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Little4Real on Sun, 20 January 2019, 13:18:20
Any idea on when the GB will begin?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: rnambu on Thu, 31 January 2019, 17:14:45
interested as well. forsure in on this one
Title: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: FoC_Tow on Mon, 04 February 2019, 05:30:37
If this ends up dead, I will blame the usb-c fanatics.

I have seen zero reports of anyone having issues with the sata connector, and imo it adds to the unique charm of the board.

Donít kill ve.a by forcing it to be something different please
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: xoxox1029 on Mon, 04 February 2019, 05:53:17
DEFINITELY in! i will take two or three of them if possible! no joking, they are one of my favorite boards so i wanna make a collection out of them haha and plus the v1's price is too expensive ugh....
when do you think the GB could start ?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Petch on Mon, 04 February 2019, 11:49:29
Reminder SATA is only rated for 500 cycles
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: fireworm on Mon, 04 February 2019, 11:56:42
Should use a PATA cable for more uniqueness....  :cool:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: AuthenticDanger on Mon, 04 February 2019, 12:07:43
If this ends up dead, I will blame the usb-c fanatics.

I have seen zero reports of anyone having issues with the sata connector, and imo it adds to the unique charm of the board.

Donít kill ve.a by forcing it to be something different please

If the design doesn't change, then it's just VEA R2 with rainbow badges. This isn't a new board or a re-though concept. It's what we already have, with a cosmetic change.

If you want to add "charm" to a board, it shouldn't be because of a bad connector choice, it should be through conscience design considerations.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nguyenhimself on Mon, 04 February 2019, 12:21:37
If this ends up dead, I will blame the usb-c fanatics.

I have seen zero reports of anyone having issues with the sata connector, and imo it adds to the unique charm of the board.

Donít kill ve.a by forcing it to be something different please

It's not a feature. It's a bug.
If your product has something that tons of potential customers hate and claim to be a dealbreaker, that's a bad design decision. Not a "unique charm point".
The fact that you cannot easily buy a backup cable for this board should be proof enough that this needs reconsideration to be worth calling a new version and not, you know, a glorified R2 at best.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: donutholer on Mon, 04 February 2019, 15:10:01
Is the r2 pcb the same as r1?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: MajorKoos on Mon, 04 February 2019, 16:10:48
Is the r2 pcb the same as r1?

Yes.  Same PCB.
Title: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: FoC_Tow on Mon, 04 February 2019, 16:26:28
If this ends up dead, I will blame the usb-c fanatics.

I have seen zero reports of anyone having issues with the sata connector, and imo it adds to the unique charm of the board.

Donít kill ve.a by forcing it to be something different please

It's not a feature. It's a bug.
If your product has something that tons of potential customers hate and claim to be a dealbreaker, that's a bad design decision. Not a "unique charm point".
The fact that you cannot easily buy a backup cable for this board should be proof enough that this needs reconsideration to be worth calling a new version and not, you know, a glorified R2 at best.


Iím not going to argue much in this topic but this is my honest opinion on the sata bashing.

I like the Sata, you can easily buy replacements as well as sleeved cables (easier than type c imo?), I never had a sata cable fail on me ever, 500 inserts is the rating of the cable not the port, I still havenít seen any reports of ve.a with broken port...

If no one had an issue with it ever, how is it a bug?

Imo itís just people following a mainstream opinion.
Much of this mass outrage, such as sata causing latency issues is just based on opinion forming with no factual background.
(Yes sata ratings are factual. Claiming you are not able to buy replacement sata cables however is, at best, proof how ridicolous this whole argumentation has been and does not make your arguments more trust worthy. No offense)

Good design choices sometimes require to go against common believes.
Itís often better to follow the original vision than have it made generic by the opinion of many, thatís what a vision keeper usually does.


Argue how ever you like this is how I feel and I donít mind not following common believe.

I know most of you formed different opinions, but I feel all this sata bashing will cause is v2 not beeing released at all.

I know sata ratings are a fact, and some might prefer type c, feel free to voice your opinion just please donít turn this into a bashing.

=)
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 04 February 2019, 17:40:11
=)

I have no real interest in perpetuating the conversation/discussion, and as I've admitted prior I take some fault far as the "blaming SATA" thing goes, but is there a singular argument to be made in favour of not swapping other than SATA looking cool?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nuclear_wizard on Mon, 04 February 2019, 17:56:24
=)

I have no real interest in perpetuating the conversation/discussion, and as I've admitted prior I take some fault far as the "blaming SATA" thing goes, but is there a singular argument to be made in favour of not swapping other than SATA looking cool?

Another argument is they wouldn't need to redesign the PCB which could lead to R2 happening more quickly/cheaply as they don't need to take the time or effort to redesign it.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 04 February 2019, 18:10:07
Another argument is they wouldn't need to redesign the PCB which could lead to R2 happening more quickly/cheaply as they don't need to take the time or effort to redesign it.

Is that supremely relevant though, considering they had like 3 years to work on redesigning/"improving" the PCB design? I suppose the pricing could matter but I wouldn't know how much of an impact that may have, I guess no one really does but Oddforge and the people involved in the project. I feel like compromising to save a little bit of money when it comes to such a long-awaited and loved board is probably not the smartest move.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nuclear_wizard on Mon, 04 February 2019, 18:25:10
Another argument is they wouldn't need to redesign the PCB which could lead to R2 happening more quickly/cheaply as they don't need to take the time or effort to redesign it.

Is that supremely relevant though, considering they had like 3 years to work on redesigning/"improving" the PCB design? I suppose the pricing could matter but I wouldn't know how much of an impact that may have, I guess no one really does but Oddforge and the people involved in the project. I feel like compromising to save a little bit of money when it comes to such a long-awaited and loved board is probably not the smartest move.

You don't have to convince me that USB-C is the better option; I'm already firmly in that camp. I was just giving you another argument other than aesthetics as to why to stick with SATA at this point.

For better or worse, ildustry already gave his reasons for SATA over USB-C which did come down to aesthetics. My argument is more based on the time factor rather than money. It doesn't matter how long they have had since the last version, but rather how much longer it would take if the designers decided to change connectors right now (presumably based on feedback from this IC) when the interest in this board is already very high and I'm sure there are many who couldn't care less about the connector changing to USB-C if it means getting the board faster.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: switchnollie on Mon, 04 February 2019, 18:32:15
Damn OP ain't been back to update in years since ya'll are ebola trying to get the man to change his SATA.

I switched all the SSD's in my PC to Optical Toslink due to the latency issues mentioned here which is also why I'll be passing the VE.A but I'm a let the man do him and use SATA instead of saying a board I don't own has issues.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Skull_Angel on Mon, 04 February 2019, 23:00:01
I switched all the SSD's in my PC to Optical Toslink

Wat!? I can't even
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: PainMaster on Mon, 11 February 2019, 01:07:26
Is the r2 pcb the same as r1?

Yes.  Same PCB.


It's a little different...
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: PainMaster on Mon, 11 February 2019, 01:21:36
I just wanted to look pretty.

I've built a SATA cable.

I'm gonna use it for VE.A 1 & newer.


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nasp on Mon, 11 February 2019, 01:32:42
PainMaster, any estimate of when this GB will go live? In other words, when will we be able to buy?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: PainMaster on Mon, 11 February 2019, 01:50:52
PainMaster, any estimate of when this GB will go live? In other words, when will we be able to buy?


Well...
Actually, I'm all set to get request, but...


I'll check with you in a few days.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: HomerSp on Mon, 11 February 2019, 04:06:06
PainMaster, any estimate of when this GB will go live? In other words, when will we be able to buy?


Well...
Actually, I'm all set to get request, but...


I'll check with you in a few days.
Can't wait! For some reason I thought it would be a while before the GB, so I'm glad it's happening soon.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nasp on Mon, 11 February 2019, 09:33:24
PainMaster, any estimate of when this GB will go live? In other words, when will we be able to buy?


Well...
Actually, I'm all set to get request, but...


I'll check with you in a few days.

Awesome! And estimated price?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 11 February 2019, 09:52:40
Awesome! And estimated price?

Oddforge commented on it a few pages back, I can't remember the exact amount and I'm too lazy to go back but it was like $300-350 (think it was 320) for a kit
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nasp on Mon, 11 February 2019, 10:46:18
Awesome! And estimated price?

Oddforge commented on it a few pages back, I can't remember the exact amount and I'm too lazy to go back but it was like $300-350 (think it was 320) for a kit

Thanks 😊. It's a very long thread.

Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Little4Real on Mon, 11 February 2019, 21:28:35
Will the PCB be compatible with the VE.A R1 case?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Lepr3chaun on Mon, 11 February 2019, 21:54:41
I would be in for this.

Still no solid go live date it seems?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: RDaneelOlivaw on Wed, 20 February 2019, 10:50:16
Wow I would definitely 100% be on board for a v2 vea. I have a v1 and love it. Would absolutely buy a v2 with a better connector cable.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: HomerSp on Tue, 26 February 2019, 16:22:10
Any updates on this? Would love to be able join the GB soon.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: vicissitude on Tue, 26 February 2019, 16:37:03
Any updates on this? Would love to be able join the GB soon.

Same.
Love the design of light effect in the split part.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Wonderfool on Tue, 26 February 2019, 18:08:35
Super happy VE.A owner/lurker here, would love to have another one.  Or two. 

I occasionally travel with mine and have never had an issue with the SATA connectors.  It still concerns me, but less than it did initially.

Flakiness of USB through an Apple Cinema Display after upgrading to/beyond OSX Sierra... that's an entirely different issue that's Apple's fault.

(https://i.imgur.com/G5xx4rU.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: RamenTechMech on Tue, 26 February 2019, 18:15:03
Super happy VE.A owner/lurker here, would love to have another one.  Or two. 

I occasionally travel with mine and have never had an issue with the SATA connectors.  It still concerns me, but less than it did initially.

Flakiness of USB through an Apple Cinema Display after upgrading to/beyond OSX Sierra... that's an entirely different issue that's Apple's fault.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/G5xx4rU.jpg)


That is a clean build!  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: kokugatsu on Tue, 05 March 2019, 10:19:10
any updates?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Wonderfool on Tue, 05 March 2019, 22:34:22
Super happy VE.A owner/lurker here, would love to have another one.  Or two. 

I occasionally travel with mine and have never had an issue with the SATA connectors.  It still concerns me, but less than it did initially.

Flakiness of USB through an Apple Cinema Display after upgrading to/beyond OSX Sierra... that's an entirely different issue that's Apple's fault.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/G5xx4rU.jpg)


That is a clean build!  :thumb:

Thanks :) if only you could see the mess I made while trying to get the lock inidicator lights working...
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: _ODIN_ on Fri, 08 March 2019, 12:19:14
interested
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: _ODIN_ on Fri, 08 March 2019, 12:25:19
can you add stepped caps lock support?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: oldcat on Fri, 08 March 2019, 12:37:22
Time to change the Sata connector to USB-C this round!
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: teemo on Sat, 09 March 2019, 16:26:35
In for one. SATA is fine by me.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Jaycob_Creighton on Sat, 09 March 2019, 23:05:36
This looks awesome!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Title: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: nguyenhimself on Sun, 10 March 2019, 05:30:17
Came back months later and OP is being excited about a prettier SATA cable...

What a waste of an otherwise amazing keyboard. I know this hobby has a non-insignificant element of retro computing nostalgia, but this is on a whole other level of tech luddism.

Best of luck to those who still stick around for the GB. I wonít.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: HomerSp on Sun, 10 March 2019, 07:21:28
Came back months later and OP is being excited about a prettier SATA cable...

What a waste of an otherwise amazing keyboard. I know this hobby has an non-insignificant element of retro computing nostalgia, but this is on a whole other level of tech luddism.

Best of luck to those who still stick around for the GB. I wonít.
I was mainly excited because there's really no alternative to it in the 75% form factor. Sure, there's the clone on taobao, but the quality of that leaves a lot to be desired.
You're right though, my excitement has dropped quite a bit. Especially since there really hasn't been any updates since it was first announced.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Hawkfriend on Wed, 13 March 2019, 06:43:51
This looks fkn awesome. Missed the first one!
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: litesung on Fri, 15 March 2019, 20:45:57
I'm so excited for this!
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: DillonHightower on Sat, 16 March 2019, 06:33:10
Yes. I need this in my life.. Any ETA so I can pad my pocket prior to??

Also , logo is not bad, if you can customize the color. IMO
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: japancakes on Wed, 27 March 2019, 14:58:52
Bump. Hellooooo?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: ojrask on Tue, 02 April 2019, 06:39:04
Interested. Still actively planned?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Mr.Elli0t on Thu, 04 April 2019, 11:22:09
Any updates on the keeb? and will I be able to purchase this and get it shipped to the US?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Zurg Eon on Thu, 04 April 2019, 14:31:31
I'm in.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: the_ambyguous on Sun, 07 April 2019, 01:32:09
in
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: keuhdall on Thu, 11 April 2019, 16:58:55
PainMaster, any estimate of when this GB will go live? In other words, when will we be able to buy?


Well...
Actually, I'm all set to get request, but...


I'll check with you in a few days.

Can we expect the GB to go live anytime time soon ? Can't wait for this keyboard, some of my colleagues might be interested as well.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: buzzking00 on Fri, 12 April 2019, 19:41:42
I sold my original VE.A due to the SATA cable issue causing lag. However, I would be in for Round 2 if the lag issue was resolved!

For the LOGO, I think we should go for classy and refined, providing colors such as black, gold, and silver for the logo. Maybe 1 logo option with a mix of colors for the people who want colors in the LOGO?
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Fri, 12 April 2019, 20:33:26
I sold my original VE.A due to the SATA cable issue causing lag. However, I would be in for Round 2 if the lag issue was resolved!

For the LOGO, I think we should go for classy and refined, providing colors such as black, gold, and silver for the logo. Maybe 1 logo option with a mix of colors for the people who want colors in the LOGO?

I don't experience any input lag, but my typing WPM is not great. When gaming though I never seem to have an issue.

I believe the logo color will be customizeable with a range of offered logo plate types so you can choose one that best suits you.
Title: Re: [IC] VE.A 2nd
Post by: Skull_Angel on Sat, 13 April 2019, 13:03:27
I sold my original VE.A due to the SATA cable issue causing lag. However, I would be in for Round 2 if the lag issue was resolved!

For the LOGO, I think we should go for classy and refined, providing colors such as black, gold, and silver for the logo. Maybe 1 logo option with a mix of colors for the people who want colors in the LOGO?

If you look through the thread, SATA was not the cause for the input delay people experienced.