Author Topic: The Living 3D Printing Thread  (Read 138415 times)

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Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #400 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 15:30:42 »
It illustrates the importance of planning your scans. In that particular rig it would probably be best to scan the cup lying on its side for instance. If I were to scan a cap, I would hang it from a tiny string to ensure that all important sides are shown. You can of course stitch two scans together, but that can be troublesome. In the particular case of a key cap, I would probably model the stem anyway, since the fitting is so important. You won't be able to accurately scan the tiny hole without a very expensive machine.

With the recent popularity of sculpting your own keycaps in clay, a scanner would come in handy though. Scan them, digitally replace the stem to one with fine tolerances and then print them.

Edit: I forgot to mention something quite important regarding camera scanning reflective and shiny objects. USE POWDER! Pretty much any powder will do. Flour or talk (baby) powder works nicely to make an object matte and gives a far better representation.
« Last Edit: Thu, 22 August 2013, 15:32:53 by damorgue »

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #401 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 15:32:36 »
that's what i was thinking

that said, they come out better cast, honestly. it's a bigger pain to get rid of all the striations and crap, and abs isn't the most paintable thing in the world

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #402 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 15:33:49 »
i'm very hesitant until we can come up with a really good use case for it now. we need a small mill way more than we need a scanner

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #403 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 15:35:30 »
Shapeways actually offers stainless steel which isn't very expensive. For reference, a Cherry MX keycap cost like $11 in stainless steel last time I checked, $2.3 in their white cheapo plastic, $2.7 in black and $2.8 polished white.

i'm very hesitant until we can come up with a really good use case for it now. we need a small mill way more than we need a scanner

True that. There are plenty of software for using your home camera to make decent scans

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #404 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 19:22:06 »
a sherline 5400 series can work with shapes that would cost as much as a sherline mill to have shapeways make ;)

it is nice to know that shapeways can do non-casted non-precious metals now though.
« Last Edit: Thu, 22 August 2013, 19:37:56 by mkawa »

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Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #405 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 19:27:49 »
I haven't read up on them too much, but their gold plated and other plated varieties appear quite cheap as well. I doubt it is real gold at that price, but the plating does look nice and shiny. Bronze plated matte could go well with those brown kits that were recently run.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #406 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 19:40:54 »
shapeways scales at the size of eg a single cap, but for larger objects like complex chassis shapes, you're using way more material than they seem to want you to use. a small mill can handle these things, but naturally requires some amount of operator expertise, etc. at a certain point, if your object IS millable, you're better off paying a real machinist to mill it out anyway. i'm guessing their process (previously they could only cast soft metals but i'm guessing if they can so stainless now they have a DMLS machine) will not provide bulk material nearly as strong as that produced from billet material by a good machinist.

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #407 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 17:12:16 »
shapeways scales at the size of eg a single cap, but for larger objects like complex chassis shapes, you're using way more material than they seem to want you to use.
Shapeways warns not to go under 3mm for wall thickness in structural parts, even in metal.

Their prices are a bit strange, while I can sort of see how a lower corner of my new printer would cost me $650 for stainless, I fail to see how it's worth $240 to make it in ABS.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #408 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 17:16:49 »
My extruder decided to become a royal pain the butt, so I'm struggling to get the frame connectors printed. Its a 4 hour print at 120mm per second and I keep failing around the 2-3 hour mark, but here is a mockup of the print surface size. It will be able to print the keyboard dead center with a couple CM to spare

« Last Edit: Fri, 23 August 2013, 17:18:40 by Leslieann »
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #409 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 17:45:22 »
that is really tight.

are you sure it wouldn't be better to print it vertically with some supports?

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #410 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 18:28:06 »
that is really tight.

are you sure it wouldn't be better to print it vertically with some supports?
That is just a rough quick layout.

I did the math before I started, by the numbers,  it will do 360mm diameter within the triangle, which is the size of the keyboard.  The arms can extend beyond the triangle about 15%, though but not in a perfect circle. It will clear an TKL.

Even if it doesn't, for about $100 I can double it, and for $150 I can triple the size of the build platform.   :)) Unfortunately, I'm pushing the size limits of my desk even with this.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #411 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 18:34:53 »
you're also looking at flatness issues. silicates have flatness tolerances too

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #412 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 19:46:13 »
The new printer has an auto level function that is being built into it. It can probe points on the bed and give a readout as to how far off they are. On small builds it probably won't be an issue, but on larger ones, if I can't dial them out, I can use PVA or HIPS to build a flat, soluble surface to build on top of.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #413 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 20:45:10 »
i'm not sure how you're supposed to dial out random variation in bed height. do you have a flexible bed with some kind of periodic ? from some pictures somewhere (which may have been kirkle's who knows :X) it looked like you had a large PCB heater and a piece of silicate clipped to it. i'm a bit confused how you would dial out flatness variation. something that's hard and not flat is pretty much hard and not flat. you can't really do much about it. if it's flat, but the plane is tilted, you can level it to a more expected normal, but if your surface is warped you're going to have to get fancy with rafts and compression to prevent the warpage from propagating into your print. oddly, i sometimes get better vertical prints then horizontal prints this way (but my original factory plate got pretty darn warned after ~100 build hours -- the MBI guy had a good laugh at it).

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Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #414 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 20:48:40 »
I think the idea is to assume that the head travels in a flat plane and let it build more where it has measured the surface to be further down. The first few layers will flatten and the unevenness won't propagate throughout the build. Sort of a "build a flat surface on top of the uneven one"-method.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #415 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 22:09:42 »
Damorgue has it.
If you assume the head is traveling in a flat plane, you can use PVA to make a flat surface to build upon and then disolve it in water. The idea is use the auto level to get it as flat as possible, but if there is still too much variation, use PVA.

The autolevel is pretty neat though, once you get it calibrated, you don't have to keep calibrating when an adjustment is made elsewhere. People are able to get accurate enough that they are printing thin PLA objects on bare glass.

Take a look:
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 August 2013, 22:13:58 by Leslieann »
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed and o-ringed Jailhouse Blues made from vintage Cherry MX Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord, sound dampened. Winkey blockoff plate | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline vvp

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #416 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 04:23:27 »
Leslieann, do you have different auto-levelling than the one created by Johann?

Because Johann's auto-levelling does not correct for the curved print-bed as Damorgue proposed.
Johann's code curves everything exactly the same way as the bed is curved. Actually this is an important feature of Johann's code because it allows to correct for slightly incorrect tower positions and diagonal rod length. This is a great feature since one does not need to have exact rods and top/bottom plates and prints will still work well enough and there will not be issues with first layer not sticking. But incorrect tower positions and rod length specification in firmware lead also to second order errors in layer flatness. That means printer does not know what is flat i.e. you cannot assume head is moving in a flat level. This second order error is only linearly approximated at 7 points in each axe direction. So you do not want tower positions / rod length too wrong so that the approximation works well enough (and so that the probe deploy/retract can position head well enough).

I know only 3 approaches to delta bed levelling:
1) Johann's - this is what most people know about.
2) Math based one. It is currently not completely automated but there is some proof of its feasibility. Here is more information about it: http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?178,237655,237789#msg-237789
3) Manual one i.e. the tedious one. Most delta calibration descriptions do not bother with incorrect tower positions but the thread above has some hints here: http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?178,237655,237789#msg-237789

Mkawa will not like Johann's approach but I think it is good enough. Thick mirror is flat enough if you mount it only in 3 points (so that you do not expose it to forces which can bent it). Really if your keyboard case is only as bent as a mirror is then it is a already a win. Especially considering how easy to use is Johann's bed levelling. And mirror does not get curved more after few hundreds of uses. My experience is that once delta gets levelled it stays that way (if you are not replacing printer parts).

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #417 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 07:52:08 »
I'm using Johann's, and yes, I understand it's abilities and limitations.
I plan on using the auto level to help double check my settings (and set head height). I still plan on setting rod lengths and such to achieve flat, to me, that is part of the process of tuning a delta. I don't like the idea of trying to dial out a huge error made in construction by using software, fix the problem first or at least as much as you can. Auto level should assist you in getting a good print, not compensate for a terrible build.

You pretty much covered my thoughts regarding the glass, which is what my build surface will be.
It's a plastic case, that's going to be sitting on a desk, which I''m willing to bet isn't nearly as flat as the print surface the case was built on. 
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #418 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 08:38:46 »
very interesting, and makes PLA much much more attractive when its material properties aren't an issue. it's basically heated beds make everything a moving target and significant degrade the measurement device at HBP temps.

but what's really interesting about this is that it's basically a useful version of the gauge check from subtractive printing. what i've been told by experienced tradesmen machinists is that gauge checks are useless because

a) they increase cycle time too much, but this bed topology only has to be mapped out at most once a print and probably much less often than that, because unheated beds just don't warp all that much as build time accumulates

b) if the indicator ever measures runout over tolerance, you have to toss the part -- say you're boring something out and the machine does a gauge check on the bore diameter and it's too large. oops, can't get that material back. that's now scrap. this might be useful while testing gcode but in production the best it can tell you is that you need to stop production and rewrite your gcode.

c) with low warpage material you can just keep adding until variation of object is within tolerances. like you said leslieann, you can dial in a raft based on your topo, and if your remeasurement is still out of tolerances, just add more material! pretty much all the low temp low warpage materials are water soluble, so bam!

holy crap i fell asleep while i was writing this last night. anyway, nice

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #419 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 08:45:47 »
Leslieann, do you have different auto-levelling than the one created by Johann?

Because Johann's auto-levelling does not correct for the curved print-bed as Damorgue proposed.
Johann's code curves everything exactly the same way as the bed is curved. Actually this is an important feature of Johann's code because it allows to correct for slightly incorrect tower positions and diagonal rod length. This is a great feature since one does not need to have exact rods and top/bottom plates and prints will still work well enough and there will not be issues with first layer not sticking. But incorrect tower positions and rod length specification in firmware lead also to second order errors in layer flatness. That means printer does not know what is flat i.e. you cannot assume head is moving in a flat level. This second order error is only linearly approximated at 7 points in each axe direction. So you do not want tower positions / rod length too wrong so that the approximation works well enough (and so that the probe deploy/retract can position head well enough).

I know only 3 approaches to delta bed levelling:
1) Johann's - this is what most people know about.
2) Math based one. It is currently not completely automated but there is some proof of its feasibility. Here is more information about it: http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?178,237655,237789#msg-237789
3) Manual one i.e. the tedious one. Most delta calibration descriptions do not bother with incorrect tower positions but the thread above has some hints here: http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?178,237655,237789#msg-237789

Mkawa will not like Johann's approach but I think it is good enough. Thick mirror is flat enough if you mount it only in 3 points (so that you do not expose it to forces which can bent it). Really if your keyboard case is only as bent as a mirror is then it is a already a win. Especially considering how easy to use is Johann's bed levelling. And mirror does not get curved more after few hundreds of uses. My experience is that once delta gets levelled it stays that way (if you are not replacing printer parts).
i think it's a useful advance. sure, it's not perfect, but that's the whole point of mentioning that larger beds give you a higher probability of hitting flatness tolerance issues.

the fact is everything manufactured has tolerances (that's what i think about 99% of the time these days), so "good enough" methods to approximate what those tolerances are and to compensate for them are invaluable.


to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline vvp

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #420 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 12:03:32 »
I still plan on setting rod lengths and such to achieve flat, to me, that is part of the process of tuning a delta.
Good thinking.
Johann's method fixes the most noticeable error with incorrect calibration (rod length, tower positions). It fixes the z-error. Everybody notices that easily since the first layer does not stick well. But Johann's methods does not fix errors in X-Y plane at all. And the errors in specification of rod length or tower positions in firmware will lead to errors in X-Y plane direction too and on some places of the bed the dependence is first order and therefore the most significant.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #421 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 12:11:55 »
it's really hard to get the rods right on a rostock style design, you have flex on those long rods, and so on and so forth. but obviously there are issues with a cantilever style design or rectangular design as well

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #422 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 12:12:31 »
error is a fact of life. to deal with it, you first characterize it, then think really hard, and work around it basically.

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Offline vvp

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #423 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 13:52:10 »
Actually the more I'm exposed to rostock the more I like it. It is a bit un-intuitive ... well because it is not cartesian. But any part precision errors (I encountered so far) have a nice recognizable footprint on the errors in bed z-level height or in the printed parts. So once these things are learned, it is not a big issue. But it takes some time. It has also rather long bowden. So few more quirks to learn there too. But that is about it.

When I was discussing rod errors I always meant diagonal rod length error (the 6 rods from carriages to the platform holding hot-end). It is not hard to make them precisely equal with a jig. But their final common length will vary a bit between different machines since most people will make a jig by just drilling a piece of wood (no fancy tools).

There should not be any noticeable deformation in the diagonal rods. Forces on them are in the direction of their long axe. Carbon fibre rods are plenty strong for that.

But it would be interesting to find out how much the smooth rod towers bend at the common accelerations. This will be X-Y position dependent too. But lets do a quick and dirty check here. The print head (with diagonal rods) is only about 180g on the machine here. Maximum acceleration is set to 4m/s. So the maximum side force at the tower is around 1N (I'm ignoring a lot of things here* but it is about right). I guess it will bent a bit under 1N. I put a 200g pliers (i.e. 2N) on the rod and I'm not sure I noticed a change/bent or not. Which, I bet, must only mean I'm blind like a bullet :)

Getting towers exactly equidistant is actually very easy and cheap (by drilling both top and bottom plate at once with a drill press - which is a common tool). With the help of the math in the reprap forum (or doing it all manually) you can actually get a very precise rostock at low accelerations even without laser cutting and other high precision tools.

* max acceleration is specified for the carriage movement but the side forces will be from the platform/diagonal rod movements

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #424 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 14:50:55 »
there's nothing weird about non-cartesian. lathes are used for every circular subtractive application in the world and they are cylindrical. very high axis count mills do all kinds of funky **** with coordinate systems for minimizing error (although it's mostly manual BUT I WILL FIX THIS). what's weird about the rostock design is how nonstandard the coordinate system is, and the fact that the it takes euclidian instructions and then does something weird with it, and the very large number of different error sources. euclidian machines have just a couple of error sources that are HUGE. rostock designs have tons of slightly smaller error sources (although depending on your implementation they can be quite large).

also the really tricky bit about the rostock is that your error is so hugely dependent on minimizing head weight. but as we move to higher and higher temp material extrusion, it's going to get increasingly hard to maintain that weight.

quite the conundrum!

that said, it's good to see the rostocks get some traction and also bill steele's cylindrical design (which i'm actually really angry that he's trying to patent because it's so freaking obvious; COME ON, THE LATHE IS BASICALLY PRIOR ART). but anyway

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #425 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 21:19:02 »
I haven't actually been using a heated bed lately.

I have been trying to nail down the process as it's not as easy as printing with one. I originally planned a heated bed for the larger printer, but when I started seeing the wattage I cringed. 200-800 watts depending on how fast I want it to heat up. There was also warp issues I wanted to avoid. While I disliked the heat it produced, the last straw was when the fet in my Ramps board died. I had to heat the bed in stages. While I finally replaced it, I think I damaged a trace. Grrr. I honestly think it was bad from the start, I have always had issues with that fet running extremely hot. At any rate, it;s nice to not have to wait on the bed every time I print, but like I said, it is more hassle.


I'm with VVP on the deltas.
While I initially picked it for the build volume, easy of build, and frankly I liked how it looked and worked. You can look at plans, see them operate, but it's not until you start using it and modifying it that you really start to see just how genius the design really is. It's adaptability is amazing.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed and o-ringed Jailhouse Blues made from vintage Cherry MX Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord, sound dampened. Winkey blockoff plate | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #426 on: Sun, 25 August 2013, 09:45:24 »
my printer is now down because i semi-bricked my mightyboard (the at90 is still working but the 1280/2560 seems to be trying to boot off of garbage). there's a programmer but windows serial device drivers are freaking impossible to a) use b) get working correctly. migrating the whole setup over to my laptop so i can unbrick the thing using an operating system that works.

FUNNY STORY. i first tried to do this in a linux VM, but the windows driver somehow got in the way of the virtualized device (the bus is still virtualized, even if the device is directly connected to the VM) and produced garbage. NT8 WHY YOU SO STUPID

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #427 on: Sun, 25 August 2013, 09:46:16 »
did you know: NT7 and NT8 heap layout randomization is pseudorandom based on exactly 256 possible pseudorandom seeds

THEY HAVE TEAMS OF SECURITY PEOPLE ON CAMPUS

I HAVE MET AND TALKED TO THEM

CHRIST

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #428 on: Sun, 25 August 2013, 09:46:59 »
THEY HAVE A BOOKLET WITH THAT EXAMPLE IN IT AND THE WORDS: "don't do this. it doesn't work"

AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaa.......

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #429 on: Sun, 25 August 2013, 15:04:28 »
sigh. the in system programmer is just refusing to talk over the at90. who the **** knows why. i ordered a jtag for atmels because i hate them so much anyway i just know i'm going to end up needing to breakpoint the **** out of this and everything else i do with them once i do get this thing unbricked.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #430 on: Sun, 25 August 2013, 17:57:59 »
Win 6,7,8 all have serious problems with serial over usb, Android developers see it a TON on cell phones when trying to unbrick them.  Those and router hacking. Getting that system to pass through a VM... yeah right. lol It can work, but it's next to impossible and even less likely to work even if you do. Windows USB implementation is terrible enough as it is, combine it with crap Chinese/Indian programmers and wide open USB specifications and you're just begging for problems.

I keep a pair of older dedicated laptops, one with XP, another with Linux on it sitting on a shelf just for those situations, because you can't count on Win7's sub/serial connections.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #431 on: Sun, 25 August 2013, 19:28:08 »
windows device drivers have problems, period. the fact that you can't do simple txrx is about as endemic as it gets.

anyway my mac running avrdude is very obviously not able to reach the avrisp on the 1280, and the at90 seems like it's working. it's reporting the correct everything and it's acting like a proper tty, so i suspect that it's just that replicatorg did something incredibly stupid to the fuse bits on the m1280 and i'm going to have to jtag my way out of it at high voltage.

for a moment today i was contemplating just calling and ordering a revH board tomorrow (the june mightyboard was revG) but then i remembered how much i HATE ATMEL8 MCUs and that i'd rather spend months wiring the thing up to a beaglebone and writing an entirely new firmware with dnewman and jetty than have yet another stupid at8 board cluttering up the apartment.

fun fact: the mightyboard firmware no longer uses ANY ARDUINO ANYTHING (mostly thanks to dcn and jetty). the only reason the board is still based on an arduino schem and running on an at8 is because of backwards compatibility. i love the guys and gals at makerbot, but this is something that needs to be FIXED LAST YEAR
« Last Edit: Sun, 25 August 2013, 19:34:00 by mkawa »

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #432 on: Sun, 25 August 2013, 20:54:05 »
You're in way over my head. Well, not entirely, I've done enough of that, to where if I need a Jtag, I know that even if I fix it, it will soon be on my list of things I want replaced.

I'm waiting for Beaglebone to get easier, a bit more onboard power would be nice, plus I would like to get a setup where I could use a cheap, used cell phone or tablet to control things. Yes, I could do it now, I even have the parts, but it's more convoluted to accomplish.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #433 on: Mon, 26 August 2013, 13:32:28 »
hate to burst your bubble but writing an arm + neon firmware from scratch is going to need about 10x more jtag than flashing a board that's just jumping to garbage in the nvram after boot. many many decisions need to be made. the bbone right now only has one bootable OS, somewhere between a 2.4-ish to 2.6-ish kernel angstrom distribution. the arm core on the cortex is quite unique in that it's one of the first to implement the neon simd isa; the tegra and snapdragons have the most popular data parallel isas in the embedded world at the moment, so you need a compiler. then, you need to figure out what the hell kernel to run. currently, linuxcnc and EMC tend to use these pcie to gpio/pwm/txrx cards to control steppers, all running under a pre 3.0 linux with the fairly standard rt extensions (iirc this is just some tweaking to priorities, and scheduler quantums and not true rt.)

oh crap, fell asleep during this post too. anyway, it's all complicated. waiting to hear back from makerbot; they have an updated unbricker that should actually work

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #434 on: Mon, 26 August 2013, 16:21:07 »
oh crap, fell asleep during this post too. anyway, it's all complicated.

LOL
Actually a guy in the deltabot Google group has Beaglebone working, sounds like he has it setup pretty well and shared a lot of how he got it done. It didn't sound all THAT bad, but I didn't dive in too deep on it.



I did some research on the glass for my printer...
While there is no official set standard, the common accepted policy on tempered glass is that there should be no more than .0005in tolerance.  Works for me!



Oh, I figured out that the Kossel delta calculator is off for my printer.
Because it uses linear guides on top of the upright rails (which reduce the print area) and slightly different frame connectors, it's not accurate for mine. Now that I have the parts all designed and the connector printed and mocked up, it looks like I should have between 17inches (430mm) and about 19inches(480mm) diameter depending on where in the build volume you measure. I found an 18in (460mm) tempered glass table top on Amazon for $62 (free shipping!) that I'll be ordering later this week. It's 3/8in thick, so it should stay in place and not flex too much.  ;D Instead of a paper weight, I'll have a printer weight.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #435 on: Mon, 26 August 2013, 22:07:29 »
i don't believe armgcc supports neon yet, and there's generally a huge difference between being able to move some steppers around and having a high tolerance, smart, fast, stable machine controller. linuxcnc allows the former to happen pretty quickly -- dcn and some other fellows have gotten the reprap style machines there already. but there's a long way to go still and a heck of a lot of buggy code to write first ;)

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #436 on: Mon, 26 August 2013, 22:10:34 »
hey, want to see 200ish print hours can do to the z-threaded rod on a replicator? :D



quick proud of this one, frankly.

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #437 on: Tue, 27 August 2013, 00:12:55 »
What did you do? Gnaw on it?  :))
I have 250 hours on mine, though maybe only 1/4 of that is actually printing (4 pounds of filament), everything looks fine wear-wise.

Not that I haven't broken or damaged anything though, casualties thus far:
2 printed pinions (gear reduction, one overheated and warped, the other just broke, too thin)
1 printed spur (gear reduction, I didn't reinforce the bolt hole enough)
1 extruder (delaminated at a stress riser, redesigned and printed at higher temp, working great)
3 stripped belt pulleys (garbage, stripped before they got tight they were free, and I know why)
2 bowden fittings and some teflon lining (crappy filament)
1 Ramps board (hot bed trace, it had a bad FET, which I then made worse using an old soldering iron, still works, just no hot bed)
Took a chip out of my print bed (I flipped it over, head fell while I was tensioning a belt)


I know of at least one person using Beaglebone on a delta with Linuxcnc, but yeah, it has a ways to go, and beyond the effort I'm willing to expend.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #438 on: Tue, 27 August 2013, 01:34:34 »
linuxcnc isn't quite there yet, even on really fast amd64 chips with the dedicated gpio cards on pcie that dnc tells me he uses. the commercial packages are still just way better. at the most basic level, linuxcnc, rtlinux, etc are all total hacks. once, long ago, the linux kernel was simple enough that you could rip out the scheduler and redesign the api to give deadlines and so on and so forth. we're long past the point where this is possible though. kernel.org's kernels only kind of work because so many people beat on them and the fundamental api was designed properly from the beginning (for a situation where millions beat on something but still everything is wrong because of stupid crap that was seeded 15 years ago, see ntkern). the scheduler is a nightmare and tied like a shoelace around the entire kernel. because of aforementioned reguilar and frequent beatings, the kernel works for many people very well but only as an interrupt driven multi-user monolith.

it's super ironic that rick rashid is now captain of the good ship windows, because the original mach microkernels were exactly what you want in a modern RTOS for machine control. ironically, even darwin, the only thing that can even kind of claim to be a mach-based kernel has so much BSD running privved that it's also effectively a monolith now, and of course the scheduler in any monolith is going to be a huge nightmare.

sigh. anyway, yah, i eat stainless steel acme rods for breakfast and then apparently grind up the brass travel nuts for a snack. problem? :D

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Offline JPG

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #439 on: Wed, 28 August 2013, 07:20:45 »
Hi all 3d printer. I just saw https://www.massdrop.com/buy/magic-plastic-pellets on massdrop (it's some plastic pellets you can melt and shape to make anything).

Anyone know if they are good? Maybe it could be used to make keycap stuff like Binge handmade marvels?

Waiting on Kawa's explanation of all of this plastic properties  :rolleyes:
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Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #440 on: Wed, 28 August 2013, 08:22:54 »
It is some polymer in pellet form, by the looks of it a thermoplastic with a low glass transition temperature but rather high melting point. I don't think it is a thermoset. Be aware that in order to cast it, you may need a significantly higher temperature to get it liquid and even then it may not be suitable as it is probably designed to have a very large glass transition span to be easier to craft for regular folks. It is thus probably easier to craft directly in, rather than cast.

I could recommend buying old vinyl records for close to nothing as another source of fully dense thermoplastic.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 August 2013, 08:24:26 by damorgue »

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #441 on: Wed, 28 August 2013, 09:28:31 »
Hi all 3d printer. I just saw https://www.massdrop.com/buy/magic-plastic-pellets on massdrop (it's some plastic pellets you can melt and shape to make anything).

Anyone know if they are good? Maybe it could be used to make keycap stuff like Binge handmade marvels?

Waiting on Kawa's explanation of all of this plastic properties  :rolleyes:
this is also called instamorph and has a bunch of other trade names. i have a big bottle that i used to make dong-shaped objects (just kidding, that was just a shout out to the d-squad and kirkle!). it's fun stuff. you just dump a bunch into boiling water, pull it out and treat it like clay until it cools down.

see look! i don't always go into atomic detail! :D

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #442 on: Wed, 28 August 2013, 09:51:11 »
Hi all 3d printer. I just saw https://www.massdrop.com/buy/magic-plastic-pellets on massdrop (it's some plastic pellets you can melt and shape to make anything).

Anyone know if they are good? Maybe it could be used to make keycap stuff like Binge handmade marvels?

Waiting on Kawa's explanation of all of this plastic properties  :rolleyes:
this is also called instamorph and has a bunch of other trade names. i have a big bottle that i used to make dong-shaped objects (just kidding, that was just a shout out to the d-squad and kirkle!). it's fun stuff. you just dump a bunch into boiling water, pull it out and treat it like clay until it cools down.

see look! i don't always go into atomic detail! :D


going off topic of 3d printing, well unless you count molding this by hand to be 3d printing ;)

but could this be used to patch up a chopped up keyboard case?

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #443 on: Wed, 28 August 2013, 09:56:20 »
maybe? it only bonds to other plastics while hot and it doesn't necessarily bond all that well. That said, it's very malleable and bonds much better and sets much harder than clay or bondo or any other fiber fiill stuff, and you can always epoxy it into place. it's also super cheap. i would just go for it :D

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #444 on: Wed, 28 August 2013, 09:56:50 »
also just buy it off amazon as instamorph. no need to gb it. it's so cheap!

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #445 on: Wed, 28 August 2013, 10:00:17 »
also just buy it off amazon as instamorph. no need to gb it. it's so cheap!

Yeah I actually ordered some off Amazon just to experiment with earlier ;)

Offline domoaligato

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #446 on: Thu, 29 August 2013, 22:24:26 »
Does anyone happen to have a 3ds max file for a cherry esc key?

Offline vvp

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #447 on: Fri, 30 August 2013, 04:06:22 »
Leslieann, did you use Berry tripper at the end?
I'll need to change extruder too. So I'm looking for some bastard child of Airtripper and Wades/Greg.
Something which uses gears and hobbed bolt but has filament guide and clamp as airtripper.

My computation that the direct drive should be enough was wrong. I didn't know that when a stepper is using micro stepping then it's actual torque is only about 70% of the nominal rating.
« Last Edit: Fri, 30 August 2013, 05:27:44 by vvp »

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #448 on: Fri, 30 August 2013, 09:17:54 »
i managed to brick a mightyboard. oops

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Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #449 on: Fri, 30 August 2013, 09:18:40 »
i managed to brick a mightyboard. oops

Any idea when you might have a working printer? :)