Author Topic: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard  (Read 29806 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3634
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 04:54:37 »
Judging from your posting history, mondalaci, you’ve been working on this project for 2+ years. Are you willing to post at all about the design process, or the evolution of your design over time? (ideally with pictures?)

Offline Kayla

  • Posts: 196
  • Location: Somewhere, Canada
  • :3
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 06:06:54 »
The retractable crap on the top is ridiculous. Anyone who has ever owned one of those knows it takes a matter of weeks before the mechanism starts to break and flat cables are crap. :/

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 14:55:31 »
The retractable crap on the top is ridiculous. Anyone who has ever owned one of those knows it takes a matter of weeks before the mechanism starts to break and flat cables are crap. :/

good thing it's easily replaceable with a standard off the shelf part that is also extremely common.


Check out this render! I am always worrited about how well the two sides fit together, but that is really nice! I'm expecting this to be rather costly what with all the good design / engineering that's going into it.

i believe GMK should have that tooling if it was used on the wy85
comptek made the wyse keycaps, as far as I can tell, GMK was not involved at all.

--
Also (in response to ivan), I was wrong; after looking it up this morning, the TG3 BL82 is not an example of an "offset" keyboard.

But I'd like to hear more about this "standard" keycaps you're talking about. What standard?

As far as easy-to-source, you can get blanks from SP that'll work very easily.

Offline Kayla

  • Posts: 196
  • Location: Somewhere, Canada
  • :3
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #53 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 15:10:08 »
The retractable crap on the top is ridiculous. Anyone who has ever owned one of those knows it takes a matter of weeks before the mechanism starts to break and flat cables are crap. :/

good thing it's easily replaceable with a standard off the shelf part that is also extremely common.

Show Image

Check out this render! I am always worrited about how well the two sides fit together, but that is really nice! I'm expecting this to be rather costly what with all the good design / engineering that's going into it.

i believe GMK should have that tooling if it was used on the wy85
comptek made the wyse keycaps, as far as I can tell, GMK was not involved at all.

--
Also (in response to ivan), I was wrong; after looking it up this morning, the TG3 BL82 is not an example of an "offset" keyboard.

But I'd like to hear more about this "standard" keycaps you're talking about. What standard?

As far as easy-to-source, you can get blanks from SP that'll work very easily.
When I saw the video preview of it it looked like they stored data in the retractable thingy because they detached it to edit software. Maybe I was mistaken.

Offline davkol

  •  Post Editing Timeout
  • Posts: 4994
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 15:44:33 »
But I'd like to hear more about this "standard" keycaps you're talking about. What standard?
Hmmm, what about ISO/IEC 9995? This keyboard doesn't fit it for sure.

Offline brainT

  • Posts: 61
  • Location: Maine
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 17:49:45 »
Just looked up the Matais Ergo Pro.  Getting one with no hesitation.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Care you share the opinions that made you decide "Nope"?
Tacky name.
Non-standard, but still asymmetrical staggered layout.
Ugly case and something tells me it's not going to be light either.
Boasts about open source, but the development model is a complete cathedral so far.
Price estimate on par with Axios/ErgoDox/ErgoPro/...

As a potential customer, I don't see any reason to get it over Matias Ergo Pro, which appears to be better looking, more ergonomic and well supported. Actually, except licensing, but then there are the other projects.

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:05:43 »
General question: Any specific reason not to use rj45 than rj11? I think it would have been a benefit to have a cable that almost everyone has.

6P4C was chosen because of its smaller size.  8P*C would have been a more common connector, indeed.  Tradeoffs, tradeoffs... :)

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2148
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:15:48 »
The function key location sucks because I will have to use both hands for basic function layer keys like using the arrow keys.  Just make it a little wider, guys, and put a function key to the right of the right shift.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:21:22 »
Judging from your posting history, mondalaci, you’ve been working on this project for 2+ years. Are you willing to post at all about the design process, or the evolution of your design over time? (ideally with pictures?)

I came up with the concept around 08/2007, but hey, we're not *that* slow!  :)  I had to work on other projects for a while but as time went by I couldn't get this one out of my head, assembled a small team and poured thousands of hours into this.  There's more than a hundred pages worth of development log that I've written and hundreds of photos that I've taken.  I'm wondering who would be crazy enough to look into all those...

Also, I'm very cautious about posting any pictures (or almost anything) here.  The admins have taken down my original post, then removed a further one.   Requested a dedicated vendor forum and haven't got a reply yet.  Would like to move to a place where I'm allowed to share stuff without being terrified of being kicked out.

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:24:33 »
When I saw the video preview of it it looked like they stored data in the retractable thingy because they detached it to edit software. Maybe I was mistaken.

This is not the case, it's just a simple cable without any such uber-features :)

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 4181
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
  • On the outside looking in
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:24:37 »
i believe GMK should have that tooling if it was used on the wy85
Signature Plastics took over Comptec's tooling. Yes, it is still in the catalogue for their DCS profile. They don't have it for DSA, haven't checked SA but I doubt it.
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:29:45 by Findecanor »
Smoking is assault. I defend myself.
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:28:25 »
Check out this render! I am always worrited about how well the two sides fit together

And so are we!  That's why we're not willing to outsource the tooling of the case mold.  Ndrew, my partner who is a mechanical engineer will directly oversee the mold making and manufacturing process here in Hungary.

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 8856
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:57:57 »
Also, I'm very cautious about posting any pictures (or almost anything) here.  The admins have taken down my original post, then removed a further one.   Requested a dedicated vendor forum and haven't got a reply yet.  Would like to move to a place where I'm allowed to share stuff without being terrified of being kicked out.

Well, you happened to come back to the forum during a time when the admins have placed a moratorium on new vendor forums. But I hope they may make an exception for an exceptional circumstance.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3634
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 19:12:16 »
Why don’t you put some of your build log up on an external site and just link to it in this thread?

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 19:19:37 »
Also, I'm very cautious about posting any pictures (or almost anything) here.  The admins have taken down my original post, then removed a further one.   Requested a dedicated vendor forum and haven't got a reply yet.  Would like to move to a place where I'm allowed to share stuff without being terrified of being kicked out.

Well, you happened to come back to the forum during a time when the admins have placed a moratorium on new vendor forums. But I hope they may make an exception for an exceptional circumstance.

They've just answered and looks they're willing to open a new vendor forum.  Please hold on a bit :)

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 19:28:26 »
The function key location sucks because I will have to use both hands for basic function layer keys like using the arrow keys.

The mod keys being diagonally symmetrical you can trigger such keys with one hand.  This has been purposefully designed as such so that masturbation is possible even while using arrow keys with the other hand ;)

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 8856
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #66 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 20:47:26 »
The function key location sucks because I will have to use both hands for basic function layer keys like using the arrow keys.

The mod keys being diagonally symmetrical you can trigger such keys with one hand.  This has been purposefully designed as such so that masturbation is possible even while using arrow keys with the other hand ;)

I believe you just found your selling point.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 15:40:47 »
Guys,

Given your feedback we're willing to change the product name. Everyone is welcome to come up with new names. We'd like to find a viable alternative that doesn't resemble any other board and sounds professionally.

Thank you very much for your input!

Offline iAmAhab

  • Posts: 292
  • Established member
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 17:58:50 »
Ultimate Fapping Keyboard?

Offline paicrai

  • Actually a Jane Austen novel
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 472
  • Location: sun stuff
  • mindblank
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 18:04:12 »
flapsacking ****mingler with keys on it
THE FEMINIST ILLUMINATI

I will literally **** you raw paicrai, I hope you're legal by the time I meet you.
👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good **** go౦ԁ ****👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌**** right👌👌th 👌 ere👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯  i say so 💯  thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good ****

Offline Frenir

  • HHKB Viking
  • Posts: 597
  • Location: Danmörk
  • Topre Ist̪ K̗̻̳̮̫͙̯̜ͅr̝͕͙̦͇͎̩̳ͅi̭̗̪̬̤e̳̺͙̺̰̺̠g̞̪̳͉
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 18:04:38 »
The Masturboard.

Offline paicrai

  • Actually a Jane Austen novel
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 472
  • Location: sun stuff
  • mindblank
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 18:08:19 »
Milko




/keyboard money joke
THE FEMINIST ILLUMINATI

I will literally **** you raw paicrai, I hope you're legal by the time I meet you.
👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good **** go౦ԁ ****👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌**** right👌👌th 👌 ere👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯  i say so 💯  thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good ****

Offline Kayla

  • Posts: 196
  • Location: Somewhere, Canada
  • :3
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 18:37:42 »
Name if after yourself? :P

Modula
Modulaci

Could use words talking about its separation;
Bisect, Bisector, Sector..

Maybe use words like "Link" or "Variable" describing its multi-functions.

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 18:47:05 »
Name if after yourself? :P

Modula
Modulaci

A part of me likes this idea :)

Could use words talking about its separation;
Bisect, Bisector, Sector..

Maybe use words like "Link" or "Variable" describing its multi-functions.

This is actually a great starting point!  I've been thinking about "fusion" or something like that.

Wondering whether "keyboard" should be appended to the chosen name, like Sector Keyboard or Fusion Keyboard.  Makes the name less appealing.

Offline Frenir

  • HHKB Viking
  • Posts: 597
  • Location: Danmörk
  • Topre Ist̪ K̗̻̳̮̫͙̯̜ͅr̝͕͙̦͇͎̩̳ͅi̭̗̪̬̤e̳̺͙̺̰̺̠g̞̪̳͉
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #74 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 18:52:09 »
Name if after yourself? :P

Modula
Modulaci

A part of me likes this idea :)

Could use words talking about its separation;
Bisect, Bisector, Sector..

Maybe use words like "Link" or "Variable" describing its multi-functions.

This is actually a great starting point!  I've been thinking about "fusion" or something like that.

Wondering whether "keyboard" should be appended to the chosen name, like Sector Keyboard or Fusion Keyboard.  Makes the name less appealing.
Modulink Board, perhaps

Offline Pacifist

  • Report me *again* if there are gifs in my sig
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3599
  • Location: Cali
  • on hiatus
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #75 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 18:56:32 »
Name if after yourself? :P

Modula
Modulaci

A part of me likes this idea :)

Could use words talking about its separation;
Bisect, Bisector, Sector..

Maybe use words like "Link" or "Variable" describing its multi-functions.

This is actually a great starting point!  I've been thinking about "fusion" or something like that.

Wondering whether "keyboard" should be appended to the chosen name, like Sector Keyboard or Fusion Keyboard.  Makes the name less appealing.
Modulink Board, perhaps

modulink sounds really good

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 19:02:25 »
Name if after yourself? :P

Modula
Modulaci

A part of me likes this idea :)

Could use words talking about its separation;
Bisect, Bisector, Sector..

Maybe use words like "Link" or "Variable" describing its multi-functions.

This is actually a great starting point!  I've been thinking about "fusion" or something like that.

Wondering whether "keyboard" should be appended to the chosen name, like Sector Keyboard or Fusion Keyboard.  Makes the name less appealing.
Modulink Board, perhaps

modulink sounds really good

Wow, This is a serious sounding name!  I'm digging it, too.

May there be a name conflict with http://www.modulink.co.nz/ ?  Totally different product category, but still...

Offline Frenir

  • HHKB Viking
  • Posts: 597
  • Location: Danmörk
  • Topre Ist̪ K̗̻̳̮̫͙̯̜ͅr̝͕͙̦͇͎̩̳ͅi̭̗̪̬̤e̳̺͙̺̰̺̠g̞̪̳͉
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #77 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 19:06:01 »
Name if after yourself? :P

Modula
Modulaci

A part of me likes this idea :)

Could use words talking about its separation;
Bisect, Bisector, Sector..

Maybe use words like "Link" or "Variable" describing its multi-functions.

This is actually a great starting point!  I've been thinking about "fusion" or something like that.

Wondering whether "keyboard" should be appended to the chosen name, like Sector Keyboard or Fusion Keyboard.  Makes the name less appealing.
Modulink Board, perhaps

modulink sounds really good

Wow, This is a serious sounding name!  I'm digging it, too.

May there be a name conflict with http://www.modulink.co.nz/ ?  Totally different product category, but still...
Glad you like it, would be sad if there should a problem using the name :(

The name here is more relevant than the business that makes office dividers.

Offline Pacifist

  • Report me *again* if there are gifs in my sig
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3599
  • Location: Cali
  • on hiatus
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #78 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 19:07:26 »
Name if after yourself? :P

Modula
Modulaci

A part of me likes this idea :)

Could use words talking about its separation;
Bisect, Bisector, Sector..

Maybe use words like "Link" or "Variable" describing its multi-functions.

This is actually a great starting point!  I've been thinking about "fusion" or something like that.

Wondering whether "keyboard" should be appended to the chosen name, like Sector Keyboard or Fusion Keyboard.  Makes the name less appealing.
Modulink Board, perhaps

modulink sounds really good

Wow, This is a serious sounding name!  I'm digging it, too.

May there be a name conflict with http://www.modulink.co.nz/ ?  Totally different product category, but still...

they make office stuff, and offices use keyboards. there may be a slight conflict >:D

IANAL, but could different countries do copyright law differently?

Offline TacticalCoder

  • Posts: 442
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #79 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 19:40:06 »
What do you all think?

I think it's great to see regular "staggered" keyboards come with a narrower spacebar (and hence modifiers you can more easily reach with your thumbs). I bought an HHKB Pro JP / Japan only to get the narrower spacebar.

I'd fork $$$ for my HHKB to be able to "split in two" like that  :thumb:
HHKB Pro JP (daily driver) -- HHKB Pro 2 -- Industrial IBM Model M 1395240-- NIB Cherry MX 5000 - IBM Model M 1391412 (Swiss QWERTZ) -- IBM Model M 1391403 (German QWERTZ) * 2 -- IBM Model M Ambra -- Black IBM Model M M13 -- IBM Model M 1391401 -- IBM Model M 139? ? ? *2 -- Dell AT102W -- Ergo (split) SmartBoard (white ALPS apparently)

Offline Kayla

  • Posts: 196
  • Location: Somewhere, Canada
  • :3
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #80 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 19:46:38 »
I like Sector and Modulink :D They both sound great and original too. Mucch better than the original title. ^^

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #81 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 21:26:37 »
But I'd like to hear more about this "standard" keycaps you're talking about. What standard?
Hmmm, what about ISO/IEC 9995? This keyboard doesn't fit it for sure.
I was only able to "find" (and totally not pirate) the ANSI spec, so I'm not 100% sure on ISO, but the ANSI spec doesn't give that much standardixation in teh way of key layouts.

So I mean: what keyboard IS standard? I think they were vague about parts of the key widths and things to allow for some differences between manufacturers and things.

If you mean that the "filco" layout is "standard" as is commonly said here (for some reason ?) then I don't think that's true, or a reason to take points off the 'board.

May there be a name conflict with http://www.modulink.co.nz/ ?  Totally different product category, but still...

they make office stuff, and offices use keyboards. there may be a slight conflict >:D

IANAL, but could different countries do copyright law differently?
IANAL either, but I'm pretty sure they do.

The "good" news is that if that's the case, you can just not sell it in NZ. I think that here in the US, it's okay if you have similar names, provided you are in completely different markets / sectors.

Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 23 June 2014, 02:38:38 »
First, IANAL.  :)

This is not about copyright, it's about trademarks.

Whenever you're going to name something and/or register a domain, even for private use, it's always good to do a trademark search first. Here are some links:

https://oami.europa.eu/eSearch/#basic
https://www.tmdn.org/tmview/welcome
http://www.wipo.int/romarin
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4802:adm1p2.1.1

At least here in Germany, if you register a trademark, you also have to apply for certain classes. If the name is already registered but in a different class it should not be a problem (YMMV, IANAL).

You can search for classes here:
http://dpma.de/service/klassifikationen/nizzaklassifikation/suche/suchen.html (site in german).

Good luck with your campaign, mondalaci.  :)

Edit: fixed name

« Last Edit: Mon, 23 June 2014, 07:12:57 by lowpoly »

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline davkol

  •  Post Editing Timeout
  • Posts: 4994
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 23 June 2014, 15:15:34 »
But I'd like to hear more about this "standard" keycaps you're talking about. What standard?
Hmmm, what about ISO/IEC 9995? This keyboard doesn't fit it for sure.
I was only able to "find" (and totally not pirate) the ANSI spec, so I'm not 100% sure on ISO, but the ANSI spec doesn't give that much standardixation in teh way of key layouts.

So I mean: what keyboard IS standard? I think they were vague about parts of the key widths and things to allow for some differences between manufacturers and things.
I read the standard in a library, but I think it's publicly available (Czech national standards aren't though T_T). Anyway, Wikipedia has a summary.

Cherry G80-3000 is compliant for sure. It's mostly about the number&placement of modifiers in this context.

CST104-like layout sounds like an industrial standard for keycap sets. Not a standard de iure, but a norm nevertheless.

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 23 June 2014, 15:26:37 »
First, IANAL.  :)

This is not about copyright, it's about trademarks.

Whenever you're going to name something and/or register a domain, even for private use, it's always good to do a trademark search first. Here are some links:

https://oami.europa.eu/eSearch/#basic
https://www.tmdn.org/tmview/welcome
http://www.wipo.int/romarin
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4802:adm1p2.1.1

At least here in Germany, if you register a trademark, you also have to apply for certain classes. If the name is already registered but in a different class it should not be a problem (YMMV, IANAL).

You can search for classes here:
http://dpma.de/service/klassifikationen/nizzaklassifikation/suche/suchen.html (site in german).

Good luck with your campaign, mondalaci.  :)

Edit: fixed name



Thanks a ton for these links, lowpoly, will be looking into them!

I also wish you great success with the Miniguru!

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 23 June 2014, 15:29:34 »
In the meantime I've asked the Deskthority folks, too, and they came up with the Gemini 1 name.

Ndrew, my partner in crime was thinking about using Modlink (because of the Mod keys).

Whaddya think?

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 8856
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 23 June 2014, 15:31:04 »
Super Split-o-Matic 2014


Nah, I really like Modlink ;)
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline ckar

  • Posts: 48
  • Location: Canada
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #87 on: Mon, 23 June 2014, 15:34:55 »
The 6 digit is on the left side instead of the right side. It should be on the right side so the right index finger will press it.
« Last Edit: Wed, 25 June 2014, 13:49:40 by ckar »

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3634
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #88 on: Mon, 23 June 2014, 15:43:11 »
How come the 6 digit is on the left side instead of the right side? It should be on the right side so the right index finger will press it.
The 6 key on a standard keyboard is closer to the F key than to the J key. My guess is that about 50% of people use their left hand for it.
(But really, the whole number row is pretty badly arranged on a standard keyboard; using a column stagger makes the whole number row much easier to reach.)

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 23 June 2014, 16:59:55 »
I read the standard in a library, but I think it's publicly available (Czech national standards aren't though T_T). Anyway, Wikipedia has a summary.

Cherry G80-3000 is compliant for sure. It's mostly about the number&placement of modifiers in this context.

CST104-like layout sounds like an industrial standard for keycap sets. Not a standard de iure, but a norm nevertheless.

It's a pretty wide standard for sure, even teh IBM AT keyboard meets it. Sadlty this keyboard does not due to the split spacebar, and in fact most split spacebar keyboard do not meet ISO/IEC 9995-2 (spacebar has to cover A03 or A07 or C to M on a QWERTY keyboard.)
Other than that I think ISO might require physical function keys.

But barring those two stipulations, (which can likely be solved by reporgramming and arranging the function keys elsewhere, making both thumb keys spacebar, etc.) it appears to conform to ISO's very wide spec. Even if not, the layout itself can be within the standard, even if the key widths are less-common.


The G80-3000 you mentioned is absolutely not ISO compliant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_9995#ISO.2FIEC_9995-4


I would also like to note that like the ANSI standard, the ISO standards are not available for free. I do not have a technical library available, and it's 88 swiss francs (CHF) or about $100 for each "part" of the standard.
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 June 2014, 17:18:59 by dorkvader »

Offline davkol

  •  Post Editing Timeout
  • Posts: 4994
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 03:57:57 »
My bad, I meant ISO/IEC 9995-2 at the time. Although, I don't think all sections of the keyboard have to be present (i.e. a tenkeyless board can adhere to the standard).

Offline Frenir

  • HHKB Viking
  • Posts: 597
  • Location: Danmörk
  • Topre Ist̪ K̗̻̳̮̫͙̯̜ͅr̝͕͙̦͇͎̩̳ͅi̭̗̪̬̤e̳̺͙̺̰̺̠g̞̪̳͉
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 04:03:50 »
In the meantime I've asked the Deskthority folks, too, and they came up with the Gemini 1 name.

Ndrew, my partner in crime was thinking about using Modlink (because of the Mod keys).

Whaddya think?
Modlink sounds great!


(Also almost the name created on geekhack, Huzzah!)

Offline blackbox

  • Posts: 725
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 04:44:07 »
In the meantime I've asked the Deskthority folks, too, and they came up with the Gemini 1 name.

Ndrew, my partner in crime was thinking about using Modlink (because of the Mod keys).

Whaddya think?
Modlink sounds great!
(Also almost the name created on geekhack, Huzzah!)
Yup, modlink sounds great!

but:

"PLEASANTON, CA – (March 1, 2013) – PACSGEAR, the leading provider of imaging connectivity for electronic health records, today announced ModLink™, a software solution that transfers structured report measurements directly into PowerScribe 360 | Reporting from Nuance."

http://www.pacsgear.com/media-room/news/138-pacsgear-introduces-modlink-at-himss-2013.html

and

http://modlink.net/

So that would be a problem because of the trademark (first link).
Keyboards: Dell AT102W (matias standard clicky), Maltron two-hand 3D fully ergonomic keyboard (Vintage MX Black). CM QF XT (MX Grey) IBM model M

The LAN table!
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62536.0

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 20981
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 05:39:02 »
"modlink" makes me think of when a moderator here moves a thread into a different sub-forum, and links from where the thread originally was :p
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 07:49:39 »
My bad, I meant ISO/IEC 9995-2 at the time. Although, I don't think all sections of the keyboard have to be present (i.e. a tenkeyless board can adhere to the standard).

the standard for tenkey seems to state that the tenkey - if present- must adhere to the standard. Most modern tenkeys have a numlock key and no equals sign, and don't adhere.

I wonder if you can capitalize on the split aspect with clever kerning, like older SP "geek ha ck" keys with the name.

Offline bdtbinh

  • Posts: 151
  • Location: HCM, VietNam
  • In Geek I trust
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 08:45:30 »
Look kinda cool, but some part should be me space-saving  ;D

Offline OnTheBrink

  • Posts: 551
  • Location: New York
  • Work Hard. Play Harder.
    • Off The Brink TV
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 09:22:38 »
Not bad but that case design has to go.

A Topre option with MX sliders would be a big plus as well.
Check out my channel: https://www.youtube.com/OffTheBrinkTV
X1 Gamertag: Cr00k1d

Whoever thought typing could feel so good?

Offline mondalaci

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Szeged, Hungary
  • Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
    • Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 20:27:36 »
Ndrew has been brainstoring all day and here are some possible alternatives:

His first idea was Twin Sixty given that it's a 60% keyboard of two (twin) halves.  Turns out there's a ridiculously expensive watch on the market with that name. Not sure whether it's trademarked but there's a good chance it is.

My next idea was Twin Thirty given that 2*30% = 60%. According to Ndrew's opinion this doesn't sound that good and the formula is not that important. For example there's an engine called Twin 600 that features 2x300cm3 cylinders which is illogical if you think about it.

His next idea was Split Sixty with which I'm pretty much in love at this point. It describes this keyboard fairly well regarding the size and ergonomics and also sounds cool.

But prove us wrong! What is your opinion?

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 21:08:25 »
Ndrew has been brainstoring all day and here are some possible alternatives:

His first idea was Twin Sixty given that it's a 60% keyboard of two (twin) halves.  Turns out there's a ridiculously expensive watch on the market with that name. Not sure whether it's trademarked but there's a good chance it is.
I looked it up

Breitling made that for less than a year... in 2009.

So they havent' been interested in in for 15 years.

That said, as long as you aren't making a watch or luxury item called "twin sixty", then I don't think there'll be trouble. You should still talk to a lawyer about it.

Of all the names provided thus far, "split sixty" is my favourite.

or just go for broke with "ultimate twin gemini hacking twin split sixty"

Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 997
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 24 June 2014, 23:01:12 »
Ndrew has been brainstoring all day and here are some possible alternatives:

His first idea was Twin Sixty given that it's a 60% keyboard of two (twin) halves.  Turns out there's a ridiculously expensive watch on the market with that name. Not sure whether it's trademarked but there's a good chance it is.

My next idea was Twin Thirty given that 2*30% = 60%. According to Ndrew's opinion this doesn't sound that good and the formula is not that important. For example there's an engine called Twin 600 that features 2x300cm3 cylinders which is illogical if you think about it.

His next idea was Split Sixty with which I'm pretty much in love at this point. It describes this keyboard fairly well regarding the size and ergonomics and also sounds cool.

But prove us wrong! What is your opinion?

"Split sixty" is great.

Please reconsider the shape of the case. When the two halves are put together, this should be a rectangle. The pointy ears are a big turn off.

Please get rid of that LED display.