Author Topic: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.  (Read 6297 times)

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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Offline Krogenar

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 09:00:45 »
Thread approval was a solution for a problem that wasnt there. It was a stupid decision for classifieds (i find the other rules perfectly fine).

I agree.

Quote

2) And yea, it's a decent perk for volunteers who otherwise work for nothing. And this isn't a democracy, it's an internet forum.

This is true.

Improve the underlying software to make buying and selling easier and more transparent, and monetize the process to a (very) small degree. Buying, selling, trading -- these are all characteristics of a robust community. Take the moderators out of the approval process and you would solve the problem, or, don't get upset if that process gives them an inadvertant perk. I didn't entirely like how the new Classified rules came out either (it was called a 'Manifesto' with a capital 'M' at one point, LOL!) but I really feel like the mods tried their best to be fair and took input from everyone.

How hard would it be to customize the forum automate more of the Classified section?
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Offline Krogenar

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 09:36:43 »
So what should a moderator do when they approve a thread that happens to be selling keyboard 'XYZ' that they desperately want? They should wait a day to make sure no one else wants it first? Is that a reasonable expectation? Should we create a timetable for how long a moderator should wait before they make a bid? Should they be banned from making any purchases on the forum? None of those solutions seem fair to the moderators.

They should ask another mod to approve the thread at some future time unknown to them and watch the forum for the approved thread like everyone else.

That would be a very honorable way to proceed, Nubbinator, but how can we be sure this is happening? Eventually, you just end up having to trust the moderators. And even if they did do this, if the mod who wanted the item ended up getting it anyway, there is still the appearance of corruption, which is (operationally) just as bad as actual corruption.

Quote
I mod /r/buildapc and organized most of our 100k subscribers contest.  I worked my ass off for it and got nothing for it

Well then you are a saint, Nubbinator.
In my experience, saints are rare. And they usually end up on crosses, anyway.
Normal, non-saintly people, generally expect something for their efforts -- social status, a warm feeling in the gut that they did something 'sustainable', etc. How to construct something straight and true from the crooked timber that is humanity, eh?

Quote
and deliberately kept myself out of the contest.  If you're given a position of authority, sometimes you have to give up stuff, even stuff you really want, to maintain the appearance of being ethical and fair.  Anytime you do something like approve a thread and immediately say you want something from the sale thread, you call into question your objectivity and fairness.

Ok, then mods shouldn't be allowed to participate in the Classified section anymore. Problem solved. I'm sure there are people who have passed the 'collecting phase' of their keyboard infatuation and can take on that role.

Quote from: Nubbinator
Now don't get me wrong, Ivan is a great and valued member of the community and I'm not bashing him, I'm just explaining my ethical perspective on it as a mod of another large community.

I see where you're coming from -- I'm an immortal (administrator) for an online gaming platform. I have a mortal (player) character, and I find myself not playing that character so much anymore because I know people are going to assume that whenever I 'win' something, that maybe, just maybe, it was rigged.

That said, I still think we should seek to automate the classified section to some degree. We should be able to construct a system that does not require martyring fellow hobbyists.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 11:04:34 »
Well, we could have mods bump the thread by a reply of approved.  If another mod grabs something within seconds, you know something is shady.

I.m by no means a saint, just pointing out that positions of power sometimes require you to give up something you want.


Offline strict

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 11:44:43 »
Didnt read 90% of this thread but I am in agreeance with the OP, I think the approval process is wholesale pointless and ineffective. People get a thread approved and just re-use it over and over. The approval process is the same as posting a "No trespassing" sign on your property ... it doesn't actually do anything to stop someone who has the intention of trespassing/scamming. Someone could easily post a picture with their screen name beside a random item, then edit the thread to be 110% different and use it to scam people before the mods get a chance to intervene. It's a total waste of moderator time/effort.

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Offline kalrand

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 11:44:59 »
positions of power

We're both talking about moderators on an internet forum, right?
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 11:46:33 »
Much ado about nothing.

demik has a problem with authority. This is not news.
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Offline Halverson

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 11:52:51 »

Much ado about nothing.

demik has a problem with authority. This is not news.

It could be if Fox got a hold of it

Offline nubbinator

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 12:00:09 »

demik has a problem with authority.

Doesn't mean he doesn't have a point.  I like the mods I know, but that doesn't mean that everything that is done is right.  Policies need questioning, not blind defense.

Offline demik

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 13:20:42 »
Much ado about nothing.

demik has a problem with authority. This is not news.

Dont down play this by blaming my attitude towards the staff. I am obviously not the only one that feels this way but im the only one to actually bring it up.
positions of power

We're both talking about moderators on an internet forum, right?

What is your point? Do the mods and admins here not have power?
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 15:55:24 »
I'm not downplaying the issue because of your attitude toward staff. I'm downplaying it because it's a non-issue. A few people are troubled by the fact that a very few people, who have volunteered their services to help the forum, have early access (again, only in certain cases when by coincidence they are aware of the thread before it's approved, and they are interested in purchasing he item) to threads being posted in the Classifieds?

Thread approval has been necessary because some people still don't seem to be able to abide by he new rules, even after some time has passed. And to those whose argument is that people can simply reuse old threads, were you aware that mods have the option to unapprove existing threads, as well?
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Offline demik

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 16:10:39 »
Oh god can we stop this crap of making out mods to be some sort of martyrs. They moderate an internet forum on their free time. When they have the time to do it. Not during work hours or staying up tireless nights because they have to approve threads. So enough of that ****.

And yes, that is why this thread is up. Its a non issue to you, thats fine. Its an issue to others.
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Offline kalrand

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 16:24:15 »
positions of power
We're both talking about moderators on an internet forum, right?
What is your point? Do the mods and admins here not have power?

They really don't. About the worst thing they can do is shoo us off to deskthority or /r/mk.
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 16:26:15 »
Oh god can we stop this crap of making out mods to be some sort of martyrs. They moderate an internet forum on their free time. When they have the time to do it. Not during work hours or staying up tireless nights because they have to approve threads. So enough of that ****.

And yes, that is why this thread is up. Its a non issue to you, thats fine. Its an issue to others.

Which they volunteered to do, willingly, with the knowledge that there was nothing in it for them. And they continue the job, when they can easily walk away from at any moment, so it doesn't seem to be an issue of compensating them for their work with perks such as this one.

And as demik said, if it is perks they want, there are some that can be thought up.

Also, I wasn't aware of the fact that classifieds threads could have their approved status revoked until the past couple days, but is that to say that it couldn't exist for some time before then in it's rule-breaking state? I know the moderators don't troll the classifieds threads solely for that purpose.

Offline demik

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 16:40:14 »
positions of power
We're both talking about moderators on an internet forum, right?
What is your point? Do the mods and admins here not have power?

They really don't. About the worst thing they can do is shoo us off to deskthority or /r/mk.

Dude dont act stupid. You know exactly what nubs and I mean when we say power.
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 16:41:29 »
I actually have moderated at work, stayed up late to moderate, and missed other things for the sake of the forum.  If I know I'm the only moderator to have caught an event that needs to be moderated occurring, I'm going to stick around to either take care of it or pass the info along.  I don't just walk away because I want to sleep.  Yes, this is entirely my choice and I have the option to walk away (if I'm at work I do obviously).

I don't say this because I expect some sort of compensation.  I don't.  Moose is right, we volunteered, knew what we were getting into, and can step down at any time if it's too much.  I just wanted to address the claims that seem to imply we don't put a lot of time in or make sacrifices.  I care about this place and put a lot of time and effort into both browsing for enjoyment and moderating for the enjoyment of others.

This is definitely an aside and not really pertinent to the subject at hand, so pardon my interjection.

Offline tbc

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #66 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 00:45:57 »
i dunno about mods being lazy.  i've seen ****loads of threads they've replied to about how lazy and corrupt they are (there's literally an entire subreddit dedicated to this).


but ya....ironically, auctions would take care of this problem pretty easy.  just sayin' ;)  (no, i'm not saying we bring auctions back - too many complaints about extortion from fragile)
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Online exitfire401

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 00:52:35 »
I actually have moderated at work, stayed up late to moderate, and missed other things for the sake of the forum.  If I know I'm the only moderator to have caught an event that needs to be moderated occurring, I'm going to stick around to either take care of it or pass the info along.  I don't just walk away because I want to sleep.  Yes, this is entirely my choice and I have the option to walk away (if I'm at work I do obviously).

I don't say this because I expect some sort of compensation.  I don't.  Moose is right, we volunteered, knew what we were getting into, and can step down at any time if it's too much.  I just wanted to address the claims that seem to imply we don't put a lot of time in or make sacrifices.  I care about this place and put a lot of time and effort into both browsing for enjoyment and moderating for the enjoyment of others.

This is definitely an aside and not really pertinent to the subject at hand, so pardon my interjection.

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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 07:15:25 »
i dunno about mods being lazy.  i've seen ****loads of threads they've replied to about how lazy and corrupt they are (there's literally an entire subreddit dedicated to this).

 :confused:

Huh?

Offline esoomenona

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 08:21:32 »
i dunno about mods being lazy.  i've seen ****loads of threads they've replied to about how lazy and corrupt they are (there's literally an entire subreddit dedicated to this).

 :confused:

Huh?

Looks like he's got you figured out, Hoff.

Offline microsoft windows

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 13:12:48 »
I agree! This classified thread approval needs to go AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I am a firm believer in free markets!
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Offline digi

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #71 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 13:13:15 »
I agree! This classified thread approval needs to go AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I am a firm believer in free markets!

lol

Offline microsoft windows

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #72 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 13:14:20 »
I agree! This classified thread approval needs to go AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I am a firm believer in free markets!

lol

STOP LAUGHING! This is a serious matter. We the people MUST make a STAND against this ABSOLUTE TYRANNY!
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Offline FrostyToast

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 13:45:30 »
I think there would be more BS off topic posts than trashy classifieds postings
If people really wanted to spam the site then they would go to off topic.
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Offline hwood34

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #74 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 21:20:41 »
How is this such a huge issue? Occasionally, mods get an advantage when buying something. It's not like they're constantly buying everything they see on the classifieds, rarely do they immediately claim stuff like this, and who cares if they do anyway? They work their assessment off to keep this site running and active, much of that time being spent moderating all the bull**** troll posts that seem to dominate off topic.
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Offline tbc

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 21:27:46 »
i dunno about mods being lazy.  i've seen ****loads of threads they've replied to about how lazy and corrupt they are (there's literally an entire subreddit dedicated to this).

 :confused:

Huh?

just saying that if mods were actually lazy, they wouldn't bother replying to complaints.

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Offline The_Beast

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #76 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 21:34:49 »
I actually have moderated at work, stayed up late to moderate, and missed other things for the sake of the forum.  If I know I'm the only moderator to have caught an event that needs to be moderated occurring, I'm going to stick around to either take care of it or pass the info along.  I don't just walk away because I want to sleep.  Yes, this is entirely my choice and I have the option to walk away (if I'm at work I do obviously).

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Offline demik

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Re: thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 02 October 2014, 08:52:11 »
Well this was a waste of time.

But ill keep this as proof for dorkvader when he tells me to "just talk to the staff".

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