Author Topic: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs  (Read 3462 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline batfink

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 57
Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 04:17:06 »
Just stumbled across this article
http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/6-reasons-you-shouldnt-buy-into-the-ergonomic-keyboard-hype/

What's ridiculous is that in point 3 they say "Ergonomic keyboards don’t actually have a consistent meaning" ...  which, when you look at the range of keyboards being marketed as "ergonomic", is a fair point.  But they then go all to tar all possible ergonomic keyboards with the same brush. Even the picture shown at the top of the article is a μTRON, which is more ergonomic than most. They quote some study or other that claims ergonomic keyboards offer no benefit - but what are they using in their test? I suspect some not-so-ergonomic Microsoft offering.

Seems to be someone writing for Das Keyboards with an anti-ergonomic agenda.
« Last Edit: Tue, 29 November 2016, 04:19:40 by batfink »

Offline algernon

  • Posts: 306
  • A tiny mouse, a hacker.
    • Diaries of a Madman
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 04:28:02 »
Someone hacked their internet connected keyboard and wrote some bull**** to prove how bad an idea that is. It worked.

Offline captsis

  • Formerly matt2dlg
  • Posts: 340
  • Location: Oahu, Hawaii
  • Social Engineering is best Engineering
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 05:05:48 »
Someone hacked their internet connected keyboard and wrote some bull**** to prove how bad an idea that is. It worked.

if that is true it reminds me of that guy who owned an identity theft company. He gave out his SSN to prove how much it worked... Like 10 people opened loans in his SSN.
Quote
You got samoas out there on Oahu?  ;D

Offline algernon

  • Posts: 306
  • A tiny mouse, a hacker.
    • Diaries of a Madman
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 08:30:33 »
Someone hacked their internet connected keyboard and wrote some bull**** to prove how bad an idea that is. It worked.

if that is true it reminds me of that guy who owned an identity theft company. He gave out his SSN to prove how much it worked... Like 10 people opened loans in his SSN.

It's not true, sadly. Das appear to be even dumber than letting a hack remain on their site: they wrote that piece. :(

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 4167
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
  • On the outside looking in
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 10:19:24 »
Goddamnit... Too late to nominate this for The *Ping* Award. Das Keyboard could have been a contender. :(
Smoking is assault. I defend myself.
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 12284
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 14:18:02 »
hahahaha..

Yea.. they don't know what they're talking about..

Online vvp

  • Posts: 776
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 17:53:29 »
Well even Nancy Baker (the author of the study they cited) did not claim that the ergonomic keyboards do not help preventing heath problems. Only that people who had pain mostly got rid of it over time regardless of what keyboard they continued to use. My guess would be that they improved posture and took more breaks.

I assume the other woman in this video is a participant of the study. If so then how the hell can she type with such a long fingernails?

Or Nancy claims that split keyboard improve wrist posture but make knuckles posture worse? I do not understand how that could be.

Maybe there are studies which claim that ergonomic keyboard is better. Jacobolous could know. He seems to read a lot of research.

Of course, das keyboard does not sell an ergonomic keyboard. They may want to make people feel better when buying a non-ergonomic das keyboard.

Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
  • Posts: 975
  • "Losing the digital battle one digit at a time."
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 20:32:38 »
All the studies in the world won't convince me that the ergonomic keyboards I've used over the years haven't given me relief from fatigue and pain. It could be that using the name "alternative" keyboard may be more appropriate than "ergonomic". After all, not everybody will benefit from using one. People who type with their index fingers will probably be better off with a conventional keyboard. Those who aren't seated in front of their keyboard may also find it more difficult to type on one. Some people don't experience any ill effects from having their wrist over extended or pronated, nor does ulnar deviation affect them negatively. I'd estimate that non standard boards are a waste of money for about 75% of users.

On the other hand, there are a large number of people whose hands are crying out for something that better matches their anatomy, and the current crop of ergonomic boards do meet their needs or at least help. I don't think the study was an intentional hit piece but I do think it misses the mark by only telling half of the story. In the end I think it is a misleading or at least incomplete analysis, unquestionably more useless than the ergonomic boards it criticizes.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 12284
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 00:25:13 »
Well even Nancy Baker (the author of the study they cited) did not claim that the ergonomic keyboards do not help preventing heath problems. Only that people who had pain mostly got rid of it over time regardless of what keyboard they continued to use. My guess would be that they improved posture and took more breaks.

I assume the other woman in this video is a participant of the study. If so then how the hell can she type with such a long fingernails?

Or Nancy claims that split keyboard improve wrist posture but make knuckles posture worse? I do not understand how that could be.

Maybe there are studies which claim that ergonomic keyboard is better. Jacobolous could know. He seems to read a lot of research.

Of course, das keyboard does not sell an ergonomic keyboard. They may want to make people feel better when buying a non-ergonomic das keyboard.



OMG.. look at that video..  You an tell they're all a bunch of N00bs who don't use the computer for 12 hours a day like us Geekhackers...   aka Prisoners of the Keyboard..


People doing research on keyboarding should all achieve minimally the natural limit of 125wpm first,   because these yuppies don't understand anything about typing..

Offline wodan

  • Posts: 547
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 01:16:30 »
- "OMG OMG OMG Mr. Das, our keyboard sales are declining, people are getting more interested in ergonomical keyboards ... should we start working on a DAS ERGO ?"

- "NO you fool. Tell the customers they are wrong and stupid. They will see the errors in their ways and come back to us!"

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 12284
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 01:49:23 »
- "OMG OMG OMG Mr. Das, our keyboard sales are declining, people are getting more interested in ergonomical keyboards ... should we start working on a DAS ERGO ?"

- "NO you fool. Tell the customers they are wrong and stupid. They will see the errors in their ways and come back to us!"

hahahaa


well, I don't think the majority of people using keyboards neeeed ergonomic keyboards.


Even those _with pain_ ,  their use is probably light-weight enough that a technique modification would suffice .



Then there's the rest of us.. who NEEEED it.. or else...   WE DIE

Offline DanielT

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1250
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 10:19:22 »
This is a bunch of crap... to bad it's too late for The Ping award  :mad:
I'm a 60% user and that is perfect for me, but I'd never say that an ergonomic keyboard is useless, I have a good friend and Ergodox is the only board that did it for him.

This is like the never ending crap with PBT is better than ABS and all ABS caps should be burned, linear switches are **** and only tactile ones are cool, Model F is better than Model M, Alps is better than MX. This is all bull, there is no universal truth, it's only what's good for you.

Offline YoshiCaps

  • Posts: 163
  • Location: earth
  • yes, oh god no.
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 16:30:43 »
Someone hacked their internet connected keyboard and wrote some bull**** to prove how bad an idea that is. It worked.
Oh yeah, the 5Q. That idea was doomed from the start anyway.
hi.

Offline YoshiCaps

  • Posts: 163
  • Location: earth
  • yes, oh god no.
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 16:36:21 »
Just stumbled across this article
http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/6-reasons-you-shouldnt-buy-into-the-ergonomic-keyboard-hype/

What's ridiculous is that in point 3 they say "Ergonomic keyboards donít actually have a consistent meaning" ...  which, when you look at the range of keyboards being marketed as "ergonomic", is a fair point.  But they then go all to tar all possible ergonomic keyboards with the same brush. Even the picture shown at the top of the article is a μTRON, which is more ergonomic than most. They quote some study or other that claims ergonomic keyboards offer no benefit - but what are they using in their test? I suspect some not-so-ergonomic Microsoft offering.

Seems to be someone writing for Das Keyboards with an anti-ergonomic agenda.
If you want to rank it, KAs, Maltrons and EGs are the most ergonomic whilst the ms sculpt and the Logitech Wave are on the bottom.
hi.

Offline hoggy

  • * Moderator
  • Posts: 1472
  • Location: Isle of Man
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 06:46:57 »
All this from a company whose marketing talked of recreating the model m but sold a rebranded cherry.  I was pleased they released a tkl recently - although not enough to actually buy one.

I think they're too scared to actually design, but more than happy to style.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline YoshiCaps

  • Posts: 163
  • Location: earth
  • yes, oh god no.
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 19:35:01 »
All this from a company whose marketing talked of recreating the model m but sold a rebranded cherry.  I was pleased they released a tkl recently - although not enough to actually buy one.

I think they're too scared to actually design, but more than happy to style.
The orginal DK was just a scam for touch typists with blank keycaps like their ultimainte boards. You're right do, just a rebranding of an obscure cherry kb and blank caps with a cheesy logo. They managed to trick engough people into buying to look cooler and anybody who wants a good KB just buys from das like a blockhead. their 4c looks nice, but can be acomplished much better.
hi.

Offline YoshiCaps

  • Posts: 163
  • Location: earth
  • yes, oh god no.
Re: Das Keyboard hates ergonomic designs
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 19:37:21 »
This is a bunch of crap... to bad it's too late for The Ping award  :mad:
I'm a 60% user and that is perfect for me, but I'd never say that an ergonomic keyboard is useless, I have a good friend and Ergodox is the only board that did it for him.

This is like the never ending crap with PBT is better than ABS and all ABS caps should be burned, linear switches are **** and only tactile ones are cool, Model F is better than Model M, Alps is better than MX. This is all bull, there is no universal truth, it's only what's good for you.
OMG yes.ABS is good, linears are great, model m beats model f 10:1, MX IS better than mushy alps.
hi.