Author Topic: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻  (Read 3463 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5061
  • comfortably numb
Tired of waiting for my dream to come true of thick frosted glass spacebars.  :'(

Offline joey

  • Posts: 1890
  • Location: UK
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 14:11:06 »
paging firebort

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 10964
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 14:18:28 »
Can't be done cost effectively


If you want it all one piece,  the bottom pocket opening and stem have to be cnc milled.


It takes forever to cnc mill glass because if you take too large a bite, the whole thing xplodes.

And the stem is a very small feature, so you have to go extra slow..

It's relatively fast to cut big holes, but small shapes are difficult.


Now imagine how many passes you need to make going down 0.005mm at a time at a very slow feed rate..


If you melt glass into a mold,  it won't have that perfectly uniform geometry that we're used to seeing on the plastics. You'd also still have to manually polish the damn thing.


Then, when you're done with the pocket,  you need to use a Laser cnc to cut the outside features, because a cap would be too small to effectively clamp.


Small things require a bit more clamp force, try that with glass, xplode..

So lasering the external feature would be the only realistic way after the back pocketing.


The laser is really fast though, so at least that's good.

All in all, it's too work intensive,   not impossible

Offline flashquark

  • Posts: 28
    • Flashquark.com | Mech Key Depot
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 14:22:55 »
I thought of this before as well, but you know what the problem would be with that?
The holes for the stems to go into would either be way too loose or too tight to the point that stuffing the stems in would break the glass.

Plastic is flexible but glass is not.
https://flashquark.com | Mech Key Depot | Kailh Speed Switches, the cheapest non-group buy Gaterons you will ever find, LEDs, Keyboards, Group Buys, and more!

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 10964
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 14:35:00 »
I thought of this before as well, but you know what the problem would be with that?
The holes for the stems to go into would either be way too loose or too tight to the point that stuffing the stems in would break the glass.

Plastic is flexible but glass is not.

this is a problem because cherry changed up their insert thicknesses here and there over the years.


If they stuck to one thickness, it should be possible to calculate the precise opening within the tolerance.


But, overall, i think the easier way, would be to just pocket the whole bottom, then glue a clear acrylic stem into place.

Offline ygor

  • Posts: 290
  • Location: 559/697*65/*598
  • Roberta Williams is bae.
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 14:41:26 »
tp4 got such a huge brain, I swear, boi.
I generally hate all keycaps. Keycaps are for poofs. Real men touchtype on stems. Non-functional artisans are awesome, I use them for the ESC key ... escape is for cowards anyways, real men go frontal assault.

Online Doluded

  • Posts: 126
  • Location: Spokane, Wa
Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 15:18:59 »
Damn tp4 doesn't play
WTB/T: BetOn Black Mummy II, Grave Grey Mummy II, KBK Grey Mummy II, Legendary Mummy II

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5061
  • comfortably numb
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 15:58:17 »
I thought of this before as well, but you know what the problem would be with that?
The holes for the stems to go into would either be way too loose or too tight to the point that stuffing the stems in would break the glass.

Plastic is flexible but glass is not.

this is a problem because cherry changed up their insert thicknesses here and there over the years.


If they stuck to one thickness, it should be possible to calculate the precise opening within the tolerance.


But, overall, i think the easier way, would be to just pocket the whole bottom, then glue a clear acrylic stem into place.

That's what my thought was as well. As lovely as one solid piece would be, the stems would be too brittle and susceptible to breakage over time. The intricacy I don't see as an issue at all, as CNC can be very precise, just that glass (even tempered) is still brittle and one weird bend and the entire work would be useless.

Offline ppp

  • Posts: 99
  • Location: Mech
  • KappaKeepoKoopa
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 16:10:58 »
Tired of waiting for my dream to come true of thick frosted glass spacebars.  :'(

tp4 now tell us how to make stained-glass spacebars
(this is my dream)

Offline Halverson

  • Traitor Supreme
  • Posts: 6223
  • Location: Canada
  • GIRLSHARK WIZBRO
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 16:24:26 »
I thought of this before as well, but you know what the problem would be with that?
The holes for the stems to go into would either be way too loose or too tight to the point that stuffing the stems in would break the glass.

Plastic is flexible but glass is not.

this is a problem because cherry changed up their insert thicknesses here and there over the years.


If they stuck to one thickness, it should be possible to calculate the precise opening within the tolerance.


But, overall, i think the easier way, would be to just pocket the whole bottom, then glue a clear acrylic stem into place.

That's what my thought was as well. As lovely as one solid piece would be, the stems would be too brittle and susceptible to breakage over time. The intricacy I don't see as an issue at all, as CNC can be very precise, just that glass (even tempered) is still brittle and one weird bend and the entire work would be useless.

How about making them like ramage space bars. Glue plastic stems onto them.
I've got people to disappoint, I got mistakes to make.
How can you believe that I'm not a waste of space?
Oh I'm sorry to disappoint, I seldom save face.
But how can I speak your language
when I don't know my own....

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 10964
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 17:52:56 »
I thought of this before as well, but you know what the problem would be with that?
The holes for the stems to go into would either be way too loose or too tight to the point that stuffing the stems in would break the glass.

Plastic is flexible but glass is not.

this is a problem because cherry changed up their insert thicknesses here and there over the years.


If they stuck to one thickness, it should be possible to calculate the precise opening within the tolerance.


But, overall, i think the easier way, would be to just pocket the whole bottom, then glue a clear acrylic stem into place.

That's what my thought was as well. As lovely as one solid piece would be, the stems would be too brittle and susceptible to breakage over time. The intricacy I don't see as an issue at all, as CNC can be very precise, just that glass (even tempered) is still brittle and one weird bend and the entire work would be useless.

How about making them like ramage space bars. Glue plastic stems onto them.

that's what i just said.. hahahahaha

Offline Halverson

  • Traitor Supreme
  • Posts: 6223
  • Location: Canada
  • GIRLSHARK WIZBRO
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 18:07:09 »
I thought of this before as well, but you know what the problem would be with that?
The holes for the stems to go into would either be way too loose or too tight to the point that stuffing the stems in would break the glass.

Plastic is flexible but glass is not.

this is a problem because cherry changed up their insert thicknesses here and there over the years.


If they stuck to one thickness, it should be possible to calculate the precise opening within the tolerance.


But, overall, i think the easier way, would be to just pocket the whole bottom, then glue a clear acrylic stem into place.

That's what my thought was as well. As lovely as one solid piece would be, the stems would be too brittle and susceptible to breakage over time. The intricacy I don't see as an issue at all, as CNC can be very precise, just that glass (even tempered) is still brittle and one weird bend and the entire work would be useless.

How about making them like ramage space bars. Glue plastic stems onto them.

that's what i just said.. hahahahaha

I'll be honest, I only read about 1/4 of what you say, glazed right over it
I've got people to disappoint, I got mistakes to make.
How can you believe that I'm not a waste of space?
Oh I'm sorry to disappoint, I seldom save face.
But how can I speak your language
when I don't know my own....

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 10964
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 20:32:31 »

I'll be honest, I only read about 1/4 of what you say, glazed right over it


Hahahahahhaa..


Tp4 will admit, 100% Tp4 is too Potent of Tp4 for most people.. !!

Hahahhaahja

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 10964
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 27 June 2017, 17:13:58 »
Tired of waiting for my dream to come true of thick frosted glass spacebars.  :'(

tp4 now tell us how to make stained-glass spacebars
(this is my dream)



Hrrrmmm...  The geometry is not extremely complicated, I think it could be done via soldering jig.



But you'd have to be pretty xpert level at cutting and foiling stained glass,  because you'd be using 1 to 1.5mm glass.

and the cuts are very small..

Offline bitranch

  • Posts: 5
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 02 July 2017, 11:06:38 »
I could cut and solder it (done lots of stained glass) easily enough. But with 1mm glass, in order to be structurally sound, the solder line would need to be far thicker than want you'd want aesthetically. There's also the issue of protecting the patina on anything that gets touched.

For a real stained glass look on a spacebar, you'd really want more than one piece (and glass color) across the top. The solder lines aren't flat with the glass, so you're going to have a bumpy key with a strange typing experience.

Embedding the glass in resin would solve most of these issues, but that seems to defeat the purpose. Plus I'm not certain if glass + resin wouldn't end up being too thick.

Maybe — with lots of experimentation — the glass could be fused and then slumped into the proper shape. But thin glass in a kiln is extremely unpredictable (it really wants to be 3mm thick), so you'd probably end up with at least an 80% fail rate.

Offline OneNightFriend

  • Posts: 177
  • Location: US-LA
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 02 July 2017, 14:45:13 »
A lot of thought going into all this. It's pretty neat to see!

All I know is that I'd hate to be furiously typing and have one shatter. RIP

Offline cherpalla

  • Posts: 363
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 02 July 2017, 23:48:46 »
I've seen some resin jewelry that looks freakishly like glass, couldn't this be achieved for the same look for the keycap you're aching for?

I also know of some porcelain powder that is added to resin for some friends who do cosplay to achieve a more durable porcelain knock-off.


Offline happykey

  • Posts: 10
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 08 July 2017, 13:33:18 »
GLASS

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 10964
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 08 July 2017, 14:14:02 »
I've seen some resin jewelry that looks freakishly like glass, couldn't this be achieved for the same look for the keycap you're aching for?

I also know of some porcelain powder that is added to resin for some friends who do cosplay to achieve a more durable porcelain knock-off.




those are decorative,

if you kept rubbing and handling the resin, it would lose the glass like luster/transparency.

Offline antquinonez

  • Posts: 46
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 08 July 2017, 14:56:24 »
You know what I hear? Excuses. Something else, let's make those letters etched glass, with pictures of dead family members and cats like in the mall.

172707-0

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 10964
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 08 July 2017, 16:37:04 »
You know what I hear? Excuses. Something else, let's make those letters etched glass, with pictures of dead family members and cats like in the mall.

(Attachment Link)


These are controlled micro fractures within the glass stock done by laser.

You can't cut anything this way, because complex geometry becomes a bit unpredictable.

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 20232
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 21:56:08 »
G.L.A.S.S.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline csmertx

  • * inserts coffee
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2108
  • Location: Orlando, FL
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 27 July 2017, 19:40:19 »
3D printed glass wouldn't be a terrible idea
magicforce 68 outemu (gaote) blues | Future: Something with F Row  

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 10964
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 31 July 2017, 04:59:34 »
3D printed glass wouldn't be a terrible idea

interesting idea.. probably doable...  but it wouldn't be clear glass, it would be mostly opaque and the deposition powder would be ridiculously expensive.

Offline csmertx

  • * inserts coffee
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2108
  • Location: Orlando, FL
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 31 July 2017, 14:11:07 »
3D printed glass wouldn't be a terrible idea

interesting idea.. probably doable...  but it wouldn't be clear glass, it would be mostly opaque and the deposition powder would be ridiculously expensive.

Anything glass is already ridiculously expensive though haha. Definitely not going to look like a fish tank that's for sure.
magicforce 68 outemu (gaote) blues | Future: Something with F Row  

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5061
  • comfortably numb
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 31 July 2017, 16:18:22 »
If you didn't want to attempt melting frit in a mold, the only real way I see is CNC milling each cap individually which is costly but effective.

Have an indented groove milled on the inside, and 3D print out some stems to epoxy in there. If the caps are made thick enough and the edges are rounded I see no reason they should shatter. Chipping over time perhaps.

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5222
  • Location: 34.04 N 84.47 W
  • weird funny old guy
James McGill Buchanan decided he needed to influence policy at a deeper level. In the ensuing years, he sought to lead an economic and political movement in which he stressed that “conspiratorial secrecy is at all times essential” to mask efforts to protect the wealthy elite from the will of the majority. In September 1973, Buchanan held the inaugural meeting of the International Atlantic Economic Society, arguing for the need to “create, support and activate an effective counterintelligentsia” to reshape the way people thought about government. He believed the center-left controlled academia and “effectively indoctrinated political actors in both parties,” MacLean writes. To fight back, conservatives needed to develop new surrogates who could be “indoctrinated” in turn with right-wing ideas, and then “mobilized, organized and directed” to disseminate them.
Seeing the name eventually led her to rooms full of documents that made clear how “operatives” had been trained “to staff the far-flung and purportedly separate, yet intricately connected, institutions funded by the Koch brothers and their now large network of fellow wealthy donors.” - Nancy McLean 2017

Offline csmertx

  • * inserts coffee
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2108
  • Location: Orlando, FL
Re: Someone make glass keycaps already (┛ಸ_ಸ)┛彡┻━┻
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 31 July 2017, 18:11:29 »
Hello

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75950.msg1890968#msg1890968

OMG PickelsKill's signature explains so many things I was unaware of.. ffs :-[

Thank you for the link fohat!
magicforce 68 outemu (gaote) blues | Future: Something with F Row