Author Topic: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model  (Read 3996 times)

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Offline yoippari

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Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 05:05:21 »
I'm trying to model an adjustable tenting structure using mostly robotics parts but the thing I keep running into is an analog kind of position setter. Mostly I'm using robotics parts from servocity.com since there are readily available STEP files for most of the parts with some additional hardware from McMaster Carr which conveniently has some integration with autodesk.

The problem is that while I can use servocity's aluminum beams with .385" spaced holes they don't actually allow much granularity in choosing an angle while still allowing something as high as 55 degrees. The very granular option is to incorporate a lead screw but all the mounting options for those are at least 3/4" tall which would bump the plate height up to about 1.25" minimum. While tented that wouldn't matter at all but I want the option to lay the whole thing flat.

Since I don't have a family of keyboards laying around to test with what are the general rules when figuring out how tall a keyboard should sit above the desk? Also does anyone have a simple cherry switch shape that I could import into autodesk?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 08:09:24 »
Hello.. !!

Ok,  first we start by neutral wrist angle.  70 degrees measured from the inside, pinky against the table,   That is Approximately neutral.  Beyond 70 degrees won't hurt, but it's not absolutely necessary.


However, if you tent this far out, the board needs counterweight, otherwise it will fall over when you type on the higher keys near the center.


This is also the reason why I consider the ergopro solution to have a tripod mount near the center of their board inadequate.



As for HEIGHT,  this is tricky..  Because   if you are a person with a long trunk,   the difference between your fully erect height at the table, and a SLOUCHING height (computer pose),  can be as large as 3 - 5 inches.


But OVERALL,  we're looking for the table surface holding the keyboard to be approximately 2-3 inches BELOW your RESTING-Elbow height.



This is ideal height for shoulder ergonomics, so you're not lifting your shoulders to reach keys.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 08:14:07 »
I'm not against a motorized solution, but it seems overcomplicated for tenting.

The challenge here will be how you plan to lock the legs.

Offline yoippari

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 12:23:31 »
I'm using the robotics stuff in the context of the beams for supports and attachment blocks for standoffs. So for example a set of beams attached to the outside of the keyboard laying on the table and the other set attached to the inside. Lift the inside of the keyboard up and slide a pin through the holes of the legs. Here is a quick render of what I'm talking about. http://imgur.com/M69r6Ne. This one doesn't work as constrained and I've been fighting autodesk with it's constraints breaking everything as soon as enough parts are joined enough to actually make anything move.

Offline yoippari

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 12:26:42 »
Hello.. !!

Ok,  first we start by neutral wrist angle.  70 degrees measured from the inside, pinky against the table,   That is Approximately neutral.  Beyond 70 degrees won't hurt, but it's not absolutely necessary.


However, if you tent this far out, the board needs counterweight, otherwise it will fall over when you type on the higher keys near the center.


This is also the reason why I consider the ergopro solution to have a tripod mount near the center of their board inadequate.



As for HEIGHT,  this is tricky..  Because   if you are a person with a long trunk,   the difference between your fully erect height at the table, and a SLOUCHING height (computer pose),  can be as large as 3 - 5 inches.


But OVERALL,  we're looking for the table surface holding the keyboard to be approximately 2-3 inches BELOW your RESTING-Elbow height.



This is ideal height for shoulder ergonomics, so you're not lifting your shoulders to reach keys.

So less about how high the keyboard sits above the desk while flat and more about how high it sits in relation to your shoulders? Means I need a better chair. And a real desk.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 13:28:54 »
I think a geared straight strut Through the table would be better, if you're adjusting the table surface, and it would keep the center of the table free for mousing.   

Horizontal bars like in your drawing would need tracks in the keyboard or tracks in the table.


OVERALL, i don't think tenting the table is a good idea, because a split keyboard has more versatility if its tenting solution is all enclosed one piece.


For example,  if I'm doing regular text work,  I have the mouse in the middle and the 2 halves to both side.


But if I'm doing a typing game,  I put the two haves together, center in front, and the mouse doesn't matter, because it's a typing game.


And if I'm gaming,  I might have the half on my left,  and the other half further out to the right, because I want that mousing space..



So, if you tented the table,  you'd have a fix center line down the middle and it's not versatile for the many potential situations that you'd be working/playing with.



I would say a straight screw strut through the entire board on the outer edge is the most straight forward all one piece motorized solution.



motorized tenting may not be a huge improvement here,

It would be more easy to do this with 2 sets of magnetic legs.

You have a 40 degree tenting set, for when you're slouching,  and a 60 degrees set for when you're upright.


You could do it as an engineering exercise.. but it's outside of being practical.

Offline yoippari

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 13:34:35 »
I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I'm not talking about tenting a table or putting a motor on this. I'm talking about using little metal beams on pivots to act as legs for a split keyboard. The image in the link is a rough mockup of a keyboard plate that is about 5 inches across sitting on legs that are about 4 inches long.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 13:43:06 »
I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I'm not talking about tenting a table or putting a motor on this. I'm talking about using little metal beams on pivots to act as legs for a split keyboard. The image in the link is a rough mockup of a keyboard plate that is about 5 inches across sitting on legs that are about 4 inches long.

oh, i thought that was the table being propped up.

Hrrrmm.. well , that's alot of torque there like that, you'd need a gear box or something. unless you use a big motor.

And you'd need a very smooth slide with bearings.. 

this is an expensive system.

Offline yoippari

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 16:54:45 »
I'm still not talking about using a motor. Just legs on pivot points and a pin to push through the holes at the bottom to set the angle.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 17:15:45 »
I'm still not talking about using a motor. Just legs on pivot points and a pin to push through the holes at the bottom to set the angle.

head scratch..  what did you mean by robotics parts ?

I assumed you meant a servo + controller + proximity sensor.

Offline csmertx

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 18:47:34 »
You can probably find a decent Cherry MX switch dummy STL via Thingiverse
More
 / another 3d keyboard model thread / BSD thread / github / falotalt
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Offline yoippari

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 10 July 2017, 00:25:46 »
The structural parts. Beams, and attachment pieces mostly. https://www.servocity.com/structural-components. The product line is called Actobotics. It does have motors and servos but like you said that would be over complicating it. The robotics stuff is just that there should be less custom work since the parts are built to work together.

The product line doesn't have everything though. The lead screw and mounting hardware is all too big for what I need. Most of the hub parts are over an inch tall and wide which is overkill for a 1/4" lead screw which they also don't have anything that small. So I'm branching out into McMaster Carr https://www1.mcmaster.com/# whose site I've tripped the ddos protection of twice due to just looking around for that exact part I have on my mind at the moment.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 10 July 2017, 01:36:38 »
The structural parts. Beams, and attachment pieces mostly. https://www.servocity.com/structural-components. The product line is called Actobotics. It does have motors and servos but like you said that would be over complicating it. The robotics stuff is just that there should be less custom work since the parts are built to work together.

The product line doesn't have everything though. The lead screw and mounting hardware is all too big for what I need. Most of the hub parts are over an inch tall and wide which is overkill for a 1/4" lead screw which they also don't have anything that small. So I'm branching out into McMaster Carr https://www1.mcmaster.com/# whose site I've tripped the ddos protection of twice due to just looking around for that exact part I have on my mind at the moment.

Hahahaha.

I think i see what you see now.

But bro,   if you're gonna screw together a bunch of blunt aluminum bars,    You might as well just tape some cardboard together and call it a day..

Why do that.. hahahahaha..


If you can pilfer those robot-parts,  sell it on ebay,  buy some cryptocurrency,  start trading..  stop with this keyboard nonsense.. keybaords are stupid.. hahahahahah..

jk..   yea... slider is going to be the main issue. unless you're just drilling holes in the plate.

Offline yoippari

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 11 July 2017, 00:10:59 »
Btw, thanks for the thingverse idea. Got a switch. Just need to see if I scaled it right as the units got confused.

Offline csmertx

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Re: Coming up with adjustable tent with a 3d model
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 11 July 2017, 10:51:32 »
Btw, thanks for the thingverse idea. Got a switch. Just need to see if I scaled it right as the units got confused.

I've had that issue with swill's plate tool. Usually an easy math fix
More
 / another 3d keyboard model thread / BSD thread / github / falotalt
Quote
...Especially the Florida cousins, who obviously can't take a hint.