Author Topic: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)  (Read 29114 times)

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Online kakiharaOne

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #350 on: Fri, 19 April 2019, 17:10:57 »
Just to confirm, there is no R2 1U pipe/forward slash key in any of the kits?

nope

Thanks for confirming. :(

Offline biip

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Offline welou

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #352 on: Sun, 21 April 2019, 07:20:48 »
I've been evaluating this keyset for Finnish/Swedish keyboard layout on macOS and I've identified a couple of smaller issues. I'm using the Finnish locale, but to my understanding the actual keyboards from Apple are identical for both Finland and Sweden (I'm not sure if the Swedish locale would produce different alternate characters). A bit late to point these out at this stage but I'll comment these anyway since I did not spot these in the earlier discussion.

The keys 4, 7 and 0 on the numerical row cannot be matched with this keyset to macOS FI/SWE layout. For my purposes I won't be needing function keys or the numpad area so I'm ignoring those entirely (but they seem OK).

In this layout the shift+4 should produce a € - symbol, while option+4 produces $. Therefore for FI/SWE layout the keyset should have a "4" - key with € - symbol at the top. The closest option for this key is the one from INTL kit with dollar symbol at the top and euro symbol at the lower right corner (so the currency symbols are in a reversed order for this layout). A preferred alternative would be a "4" - key with Euro symbol at the top. Apple themselves omit the Dollar alternate symbol.

The second issue concerns the curly brackets and the keys "7" and "0". On a FI/SWE layout three types of brackets ("()", "[]", "{}") are produced using the keys "8" and "9" on the numerical row. Combined with shift these keys produce the round brackets, combined with the option key they produce the square brackets and together with both shift and the option key they produce the curly brackets. Therefore the keycaps for "8" and "9" in the INTL kit are OK, but the keyset does not have options for keys "7" and "0" which would omit the additional curly bracket legends (the ones in BASE kit have incorrect alternative symbols for FI/SWE layout).

And for the sake of completeness, on a FI/SWE layout shift+7 produces "/", option+7 produces "|", shift+option+7 produces "\". Shift+0 produces "=", option+0 produces "≈", shift+option+0 produces "≠".

I'm new to this so cannot say if this in general is a known issue and just a consequence of the difficulty of matching all possible layouts. Seems to me that one additional key (a "4" with Euro on top, perhaps omitting the secondary alternate character, but if one was included it could be the Dollar symbol) and a change to two keys (omit the curly bracket legends from "7" and "0" in the INTL kit) would have made this set compatible with FI/SWE macOS layout. Or alternatively if the legends from "7" and "0" could not be removed, perhaps two additional keycaps would have been needed in the INTL kit to cover those as well.

I don't think these are dealbreakers for me and I can live with the inaccurate legends on the three keys, especially since I'm sure my locale is in a minority here. It was so close though...

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #353 on: Sun, 21 April 2019, 17:42:13 »
@welou



Bellow is an example of an standard Swedish layout fitted with an OG Cherry double shot set owned by DT's user Dorf. As you can see, it can be fully reproduced with 2048 key set.


Apple's well known to make everything proprietary and it would not be a surprise that they decided to make its own version of Norde layouts. Therefore, what you referred to as small issues might be due to MacOS and not to this set.



Online Puddsy

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #354 on: Sun, 21 April 2019, 17:49:36 »
@welou



Bellow is an example of an standard Swedish layout fitted with an OG Cherry double shot set owned by DT's user Dorf. As you can see, it can be fully reproduced with 2048 key set.


Apple's well known to make everything proprietary and it would not be a surprise that they decided to make its own version of Norde layouts. Therefore, what you referred to as small issues might be due to MacOS and not to this set.


Show Image


i was gonna say the same thing
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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #355 on: Sun, 21 April 2019, 17:54:14 »
@welou



Bellow is an example of an standard Swedish layout fitted with an OG Cherry double shot set owned by DT's user Dorf. As you can see, it can be fully reproduced with 2048 key set.


Apple's well known to make everything proprietary and it would not be a surprise that they decided to make its own version of Norde layouts. Therefore, what you referred to as small issues might be due to MacOS and not to this set.


Show Image


i was gonna say the same thing


I just began learning Japanese. Hoping to know at least the 1000+ kanji required for 6 graders, this year. Based on your location, you should be a Japanese speaker, right?

Online Puddsy

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #356 on: Sun, 21 April 2019, 18:25:14 »
@welou



Bellow is an example of an standard Swedish layout fitted with an OG Cherry double shot set owned by DT's user Dorf. As you can see, it can be fully reproduced with 2048 key set.


Apple's well known to make everything proprietary and it would not be a surprise that they decided to make its own version of Norde layouts. Therefore, what you referred to as small issues might be due to MacOS and not to this set.


Show Image


i was gonna say the same thing


I just began learning Japanese. Hoping to know at least the 1000+ kanji required for 6 graders, this year. Based on your location, you should be a Japanese speaker, right?

my location is the name of a book

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ark_Sakura

i speak a little but not really enough to teach
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Schumiboard" | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | MIRA SE | TGR Alice | Southpaw Fullsize (pending shipping) | Daily driver: TGR Alice

Puddsy's just a post ****

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #357 on: Sun, 21 April 2019, 18:30:36 »
@welou



Bellow is an example of an standard Swedish layout fitted with an OG Cherry double shot set owned by DT's user Dorf. As you can see, it can be fully reproduced with 2048 key set.


Apple's well known to make everything proprietary and it would not be a surprise that they decided to make its own version of Norde layouts. Therefore, what you referred to as small issues might be due to MacOS and not to this set.


Show Image


i was gonna say the same thing


I just began learning Japanese. Hoping to know at least the 1000+ kanji required for 6 graders, this year. Based on your location, you should be a Japanese speaker, right?

my location is the name of a book

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ark_Sakura

i speak a little but not really enough to teach


I see. I really did not imply any help calling, but thank you very much for considering.  :p

Online Puddsy

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #358 on: Mon, 22 April 2019, 00:23:50 »
@welou



Bellow is an example of an standard Swedish layout fitted with an OG Cherry double shot set owned by DT's user Dorf. As you can see, it can be fully reproduced with 2048 key set.


Apple's well known to make everything proprietary and it would not be a surprise that they decided to make its own version of Norde layouts. Therefore, what you referred to as small issues might be due to MacOS and not to this set.


Show Image


i was gonna say the same thing


I just began learning Japanese. Hoping to know at least the 1000+ kanji required for 6 graders, this year. Based on your location, you should be a Japanese speaker, right?

my location is the name of a book

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ark_Sakura

i speak a little but not really enough to teach


I see. I really did not imply any help calling, but thank you very much for considering.  :p

i like to help when i can

i just also like to ****post about anything that moves
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Schumiboard" | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | MIRA SE | TGR Alice | Southpaw Fullsize (pending shipping) | Daily driver: TGR Alice

Puddsy's just a post ****

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #359 on: Mon, 22 April 2019, 03:43:40 »
Hey, I was not aware that there was a specific Mac layout for Finnish/Swedish languages. And unfortunately it’s now too late to make changes. I hope it’s not a deal breaker.

Offline welou

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #360 on: Mon, 22 April 2019, 14:57:19 »
Bellow is an example of an standard Swedish layout fitted with an OG Cherry double shot set owned by DT's user Dorf. As you can see, it can be fully reproduced with 2048 key set.

Apple's well known to make everything proprietary and it would not be a surprise that they decided to make its own version of Norde layouts. Therefore, what you referred to as small issues might be due to MacOS and not to this set.

Apple's keyboards go further back in history than the relevant ISO and ANSI standards so that characterisation isn't entirely fair (meaning: in order to deviate from a standard the standard has to exist first). I admit, though, that I don't know when the first specifically SWE/FI keyboard was made by them and what layout it might have followed. Or their first ISO keyboards in general.

When it comes to this keyset it seems fairly obvious to me that it would mainly be of interest to macOS users. The icons used in the keyset wouldn't match the UI in Linux or Windows systems and on macOS I'd expect many users would like to retain the integration between the keyboard symbols and the system UI (which this keyset allows). For reference, here's an example from their developer documentation of the icons used in system menus (https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/macos/menus/menu-bar-menus/):


In this light it would make sense in this case to follow Apple's keyboard layouts in situations where there's a conflict (the quoted comment from biip is relevant here).

Hey, I was not aware that there was a specific Mac layout for Finnish/Swedish languages. And unfortunately it’s now too late to make changes. I hope it’s not a deal breaker.

No worries! Already went with the BASE, INTL and ICONO kits because the set looks so nice. But maybe this is useful information in general regarding international kits? As far as I can see the three keys (4, 7 and 0) were the only problematic ones for FI/SWE on macOS, but there could of course be more regional differences in other macOS locales.

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #361 on: Mon, 22 April 2019, 16:20:48 »
The use of Mac icons does not make this set targeted to mac users. It is something you will learn as you see more GBs and stay around keyboard forums.

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] EnjoyPBT Extended 2048 (GB 04/19 — 05/19)
« Reply #362 on: Tue, 23 April 2019, 02:49:07 »
Keep in mind that this set is inspired by Apple Extended Keyboards (I & II).
The goal here wasn't to replicated something existing or to create a sequel of an Apple keyboard.