Author Topic: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)  (Read 9936 times)

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Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 871
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #100 on: Mon, 11 March 2019, 01:59:53 »
As other pointed out, i also think that the stabilizers problem should be fixed.

QMK is nice in 2019 but is not mandatory, while making stabilizers standard is mandatory to make a $400 keyboard usable for us. 

  • Cherry PCB mounted stabilizers is a must, no way anyone is going to spend a good amount of money on costars stabs keyboard. 
  • 2x3u stabs are impossible to find in our keysets, use this instead:
    • 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 2.25 - 1.25  || 2.75 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1
    • 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 2.25 - 1.25  || 2.75 - 1.5 - 1.5  - 1 - 1 - 1



I believe whoever didn't complained about that, just didn't noticed none of these things (yet)
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 March 2019, 02:01:45 by KaosJ »

Offline cyriously

  • Posts: 21
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #101 on: Mon, 11 March 2019, 02:20:12 »
I think 3U spacebars are common in China (correct me if I'm wrong) hence ePBT offers 3u spacebar, even in base kits.

OP said 2.75 and 2.25 spacebars are rare, and I assume, here at least in GH, we mostly prefer 2.75 2.25 spacebars.

This keyboard is OP's vision, of course we can give feedback.
But if trying to cater to two different groups 3u vs (2.75 2.25) + cherry stabilizers requires too much rework, I'm fine with going 3u with Costar.
One solution I can see is to make two version keyboard. One is to cater GMK users (with customizable layout with non hotswap PCB), and one is the original in the first post.

IMO, personally, I won't skip this keyboard just because of costar and 3u spacebars. It's just too good.

Offline SomePunkassKid

  • Posts: 17
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #102 on: Mon, 11 March 2019, 02:40:48 »
I agree with cyriously about the costar stabs. I couldn't care less since cherry/gmk stabs aren't perfect stabilisation solutions anyway. It'd just suck if a v2.0 came out and we'd be stuck with costars.

Although it'd make life easier if we can just buy the set together with the main GB.

As far as the 3u. I have 2 pairs in white and black, concave, spacebars. They're pretty easy to get via aliexpress and/or KpRepublic (I think).

If anything, a small solution to salvage most of the case design would be to:
1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 2.25 (split) 2.75, 1.5, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1

This keeps row length, but has the "more abundant keys"


Offline _ODIN_

  • Posts: 575
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #103 on: Mon, 11 March 2019, 03:12:02 »
I prefer 2.75 & 2.25 in combination with cherry stabs too.

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Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 871
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 11 March 2019, 14:17:29 »
I agree with cyriously about the costar stabs. I couldn't care less since cherry/gmk stabs aren't perfect stabilisation solutions anyway. It'd just suck if a v2.0 came out and we'd be stuck with costars.

Although it'd make life easier if we can just buy the set together with the main GB.

As far as the 3u. I have 2 pairs in white and black, concave, spacebars. They're pretty easy to get via aliexpress and/or KpRepublic (I think).

If anything, a small solution to salvage most of the case design would be to:
1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 2.25 (split) 2.75, 1.5, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1

This keeps row length, but has the "more abundant keys"

PCB stabs ain't perfect but is the best solution we have right now.  I would argue that GMK screw-in stabs with the good mods are pretty close to perfection in this field (or Zeal v2 stabs).  At least for the perfection we can achieve on stabs.

The fact that you can actually find 3u somewhere means really zero to me and many other people (no offense), if none of the common sets we have (gmk, sa) contains 3u x2, the whole keyboard is pointless.  No way we are going to pair a random white or black 3u keycap with the sets we have, I mean if i spend $200 on a set of caps, the whole keyboard needs to be filled with these caps, not other random color caps in a random profile of a random material. 


I think 3U spacebars are common in China (correct me if I'm wrong) hence ePBT offers 3u spacebar, even in base kits.

OP said 2.75 and 2.25 spacebars are rare, and I assume, here at least in GH, we mostly prefer 2.75 2.25 spacebars.

This keyboard is OP's vision, of course we can give feedback.
But if trying to cater to two different groups 3u vs (2.75 2.25) + cherry stabilizers requires too much rework, I'm fine with going 3u with Costar.
One solution I can see is to make two version keyboard. One is to cater GMK users (with customizable layout with non hotswap PCB), and one is the original in the first post.

IMO, personally, I won't skip this keyboard just because of costar and 3u spacebars. It's just too good.


I doubt 3u are popular in China, even if they are, i doubt 3u in China is more popular more than 2.75+2.25 (which are often contained in every "big set"). 
Even if it's true, he is doing this GB here for GH/Reddit/Keebtalk where 3u stabs are not even a remote option, so in that case he should do 2 plate style, one for China with costar and 3u x2 and one for the rest of the World with PCB mounted and 2.25+1.25+2.75.   

Without mentioning how bad Costars actually are against a proper adjusted/modded pcb mounted stab. 

IMO, even if i'm super excited for the design,  personally I would skip this keyboard just because of costar and 3u spacebars, and i believe most of the people who can buy a $350-500 keyboard would do the same. It's an expensive keyboard due the design, i don't believe there are many people that are interested in buying this keeb if they have to use random 3u caps and costars.   

Stabilizers can be ignored on a $60-80 keyboard, which is not the case. 


« Last Edit: Mon, 11 March 2019, 14:21:52 by KaosJ »

Offline nine-fox

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #105 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 10:14:39 »
Any chance of non-Costar stabilizers?
 - No. I like cherry stab actually. However, the mother and child structure means costar stab is a must.

Unfortunately, Cherry stab is not planned in R1. It will increase the price - at least 50~100$. I guess it is not acceptable.

Thanks for your asking. Due to high cost, costar is only for now.

Technically, supporting other stabs can be done, but the price will go higher.

Another point is, costar is perfect for base kit - take whitefox/nightfox for example, it looks better than cherry stab when you are using a case like this. Cherry stab needs a big hole in plate, which is ugly

Wait. So, is the lack of support for Cherry-style stabilizers due to the mother-and-child design as you originally answered, manufacturing cost restraints, or aesthetics? Or is it some combination of all three and then some?

Edit: Also just an FYI ~ you can click the Multi-Quote feature and then click Reply for multiple and/or similar questions.

Well, magnet is needed in the center split area. While no spaces at TGB and YHN, there is only space left at 3x space. As a result, the magnet is put there, its need a hole. CNC needs at least 3mm thickness, so you can guess only costar can do it.

If use pcb stab, CNC should do 1mm thickness which will cost too much. I guess at least $50-$100.

While the space is limited, its better to use 3x as there is more room.

PS. multi-quote is great feature! I never do it before! Thanks very much for your tips.


Offline nine-fox

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #106 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 10:15:20 »
Any chance of non-Costar stabilizers?
 - No. I like cherry stab actually. However, the mother and child structure means costar stab is a must.

Unfortunately, Cherry stab is not planned in R1. It will increase the price - at least 50~100$. I guess it is not acceptable.

Thanks for your asking. Due to high cost, costar is only for now.

Technically, supporting other stabs can be done, but the price will go higher.

Another point is, costar is perfect for base kit - take whitefox/nightfox for example, it looks better than cherry stab when you are using a case like this. Cherry stab needs a big hole in plate, which is ugly

Wait. So, is the lack of support for Cherry-style stabilizers due to the mother-and-child design as you originally answered, manufacturing cost restraints, or aesthetics? Or is it some combination of all three and then some?

Edit: Also just an FYI ~ you can click the Multi-Quote feature and then click Reply for multiple and/or similar questions.

Well, magnet is needed in the center split area. While no spaces at TGB and YHN, there is only space left at 3x space. As a result, the magnet is put there, its need a hole. CNC needs at least 3mm thickness, so you can guess only costar can do it.

If use pcb stab, CNC should do 1mm thickness which will cost too much. I guess at least $50-$100.

While the space is limited, its better to use 3x as there is more room.

PS. multi-quote is great feature! I never do it before! Thanks very much for your tips.



As other pointed out, i also think that the stabilizers problem should be fixed.

QMK is nice in 2019 but is not mandatory, while making stabilizers standard is mandatory to make a $400 keyboard usable for us. 

  • Cherry PCB mounted stabilizers is a must, no way anyone is going to spend a good amount of money on costars stabs keyboard. 
  • 2x3u stabs are impossible to find in our keysets, use this instead:
    • 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 2.25 - 1.25  || 2.75 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1
    • 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 2.25 - 1.25  || 2.75 - 1.5 - 1.5  - 1 - 1 - 1



I believe whoever didn't complained about that, just didn't noticed none of these things (yet)


See my comments pls

Offline nine-fox

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #107 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 10:19:48 »
I think 3U spacebars are common in China (correct me if I'm wrong) hence ePBT offers 3u spacebar, even in base kits.

OP said 2.75 and 2.25 spacebars are rare, and I assume, here at least in GH, we mostly prefer 2.75 2.25 spacebars.

This keyboard is OP's vision, of course we can give feedback.
But if trying to cater to two different groups 3u vs (2.75 2.25) + cherry stabilizers requires too much rework, I'm fine with going 3u with Costar.
One solution I can see is to make two version keyboard. One is to cater GMK users (with customizable layout with non hotswap PCB), and one is the original in the first post.

IMO, personally, I won't skip this keyboard just because of costar and 3u spacebars. It's just too good.

Thanks for your understanding. For 3u and 2.75u, both of them have advantages and disadvantages.

My current estimation is that, I need at least 1 month to change if 2.75 is used - including case, plate, bottom case, and pcb - that's almost everything.

Offline nine-fox

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #108 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 10:26:05 »
I agree with cyriously about the costar stabs. I couldn't care less since cherry/gmk stabs aren't perfect stabilisation solutions anyway. It'd just suck if a v2.0 came out and we'd be stuck with costars.

Although it'd make life easier if we can just buy the set together with the main GB.

As far as the 3u. I have 2 pairs in white and black, concave, spacebars. They're pretty easy to get via aliexpress and/or KpRepublic (I think).

If anything, a small solution to salvage most of the case design would be to:
1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 2.25 (split) 2.75, 1.5, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1

This keeps row length, but has the "more abundant keys"

for stab, please see comments above...forget to quote :-(

Offline SomePunkassKid

  • Posts: 17
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #109 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 10:30:45 »
I think 3U spacebars are common in China (correct me if I'm wrong) hence ePBT offers 3u spacebar, even in base kits.

OP said 2.75 and 2.25 spacebars are rare, and I assume, here at least in GH, we mostly prefer 2.75 2.25 spacebars.

This keyboard is OP's vision, of course we can give feedback.
But if trying to cater to two different groups 3u vs (2.75 2.25) + cherry stabilizers requires too much rework, I'm fine with going 3u with Costar.
One solution I can see is to make two version keyboard. One is to cater GMK users (with customizable layout with non hotswap PCB), and one is the original in the first post.

IMO, personally, I won't skip this keyboard just because of costar and 3u spacebars. It's just too good.

Thanks for your understanding. For 3u and 2.75u, both of them have advantages and disadvantages.

My current estimation is that, I need at least 1 month to change if 2.75 is used - including case, plate, bottom case, and pcb - that's almost everything.


IMO, just do the 3u board now and do a 2.75/2.25 option for an R2 at a later time.

Concerning the costar stabs: I assumed it was a technical limitation. And even though I'm not particularly limited by pricing points, another $100 would really start to shrink general MOQ numbers.

Also, will we be able to purchase a second child board similarly to the set up in the first picture?

Offline nine-fox

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  • Posts: 55
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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #110 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 10:32:16 »
I agree with cyriously about the costar stabs. I couldn't care less since cherry/gmk stabs aren't perfect stabilisation solutions anyway. It'd just suck if a v2.0 came out and we'd be stuck with costars.

Although it'd make life easier if we can just buy the set together with the main GB.

As far as the 3u. I have 2 pairs in white and black, concave, spacebars. They're pretty easy to get via aliexpress and/or KpRepublic (I think).

If anything, a small solution to salvage most of the case design would be to:
1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 2.25 (split) 2.75, 1.5, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1

This keeps row length, but has the "more abundant keys"

PCB stabs ain't perfect but is the best solution we have right now.  I would argue that GMK screw-in stabs with the good mods are pretty close to perfection in this field (or Zeal v2 stabs).  At least for the perfection we can achieve on stabs.

The fact that you can actually find 3u somewhere means really zero to me and many other people (no offense), if none of the common sets we have (gmk, sa) contains 3u x2, the whole keyboard is pointless.  No way we are going to pair a random white or black 3u keycap with the sets we have, I mean if i spend $200 on a set of caps, the whole keyboard needs to be filled with these caps, not other random color caps in a random profile of a random material. 


I think 3U spacebars are common in China (correct me if I'm wrong) hence ePBT offers 3u spacebar, even in base kits.

OP said 2.75 and 2.25 spacebars are rare, and I assume, here at least in GH, we mostly prefer 2.75 2.25 spacebars.

This keyboard is OP's vision, of course we can give feedback.
But if trying to cater to two different groups 3u vs (2.75 2.25) + cherry stabilizers requires too much rework, I'm fine with going 3u with Costar.
One solution I can see is to make two version keyboard. One is to cater GMK users (with customizable layout with non hotswap PCB), and one is the original in the first post.

IMO, personally, I won't skip this keyboard just because of costar and 3u spacebars. It's just too good.


I doubt 3u are popular in China, even if they are, i doubt 3u in China is more popular more than 2.75+2.25 (which are often contained in every "big set"). 
Even if it's true, he is doing this GB here for GH/Reddit/Keebtalk where 3u stabs are not even a remote option, so in that case he should do 2 plate style, one for China with costar and 3u x2 and one for the rest of the World with PCB mounted and 2.25+1.25+2.75.   

Without mentioning how bad Costars actually are against a proper adjusted/modded pcb mounted stab. 

IMO, even if i'm super excited for the design,  personally I would skip this keyboard just because of costar and 3u spacebars, and i believe most of the people who can buy a $350-500 keyboard would do the same. It's an expensive keyboard due the design, i don't believe there are many people that are interested in buying this keeb if they have to use random 3u caps and costars.   

Stabilizers can be ignored on a $60-80 keyboard, which is not the case.


For 3u stab, you may forget one thing: Its rare(both pcb, cherry and costar) in the market. I have just found a channel can provide customized costar 3u stab, which can be trusted (its from a keyboard named mickey board 2.0).

Offline nine-fox

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #111 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 10:36:57 »
I think 3U spacebars are common in China (correct me if I'm wrong) hence ePBT offers 3u spacebar, even in base kits.

OP said 2.75 and 2.25 spacebars are rare, and I assume, here at least in GH, we mostly prefer 2.75 2.25 spacebars.

This keyboard is OP's vision, of course we can give feedback.
But if trying to cater to two different groups 3u vs (2.75 2.25) + cherry stabilizers requires too much rework, I'm fine with going 3u with Costar.
One solution I can see is to make two version keyboard. One is to cater GMK users (with customizable layout with non hotswap PCB), and one is the original in the first post.

IMO, personally, I won't skip this keyboard just because of costar and 3u spacebars. It's just too good.

Thanks for your understanding. For 3u and 2.75u, both of them have advantages and disadvantages.

My current estimation is that, I need at least 1 month to change if 2.75 is used - including case, plate, bottom case, and pcb - that's almost everything.


IMO, just do the 3u board now and do a 2.75/2.25 option for an R2 at a later time.

Concerning the costar stabs: I assumed it was a technical limitation. And even though I'm not particularly limited by pricing points, another $100 would really start to shrink general MOQ numbers.

Also, will we be able to purchase a second child board similarly to the set up in the first picture?

Thanks for your understanding. While you saying 'second child board', you mean the mouse stick module, correct? That's OK to buy 2 ---- only if you can afford! :)

Offline HomerSp

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #112 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 14:36:13 »
I'm personally fine with the 3u spacebars, however, it may be something to reconsider for the second version since 2.75u and 2.25u keycaps are easier to find, as has been said already. Don't have any experience with costar stabs myself, so I can't say which is better - what are the pros and cons of costar vs cherry?

Online Poesjuh

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #113 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 14:49:52 »
3u would kill it for a lot of people Iím afraid. Afaik only newer epbt sets have them (and just one) and 99% of SA and GMK sets donít have them at all.


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Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 871
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #114 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 15:14:12 »
I'm personally fine with the 3u spacebars, however, it may be something to reconsider for the second version since 2.75u and 2.25u keycaps are easier to find, as has been said already. Don't have any experience with costar stabs myself, so I can't say which is better - what are the pros and cons of costar vs cherry?

Costars are just bad, no pros at all (except the fact that corsars are mounted on the plate which makes things easier for newbies)

Offline KaosJ

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #115 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 15:20:39 »
Any chance of non-Costar stabilizers?
 - No. I like cherry stab actually. However, the mother and child structure means costar stab is a must.

Unfortunately, Cherry stab is not planned in R1. It will increase the price - at least 50~100$. I guess it is not acceptable.

Thanks for your asking. Due to high cost, costar is only for now.

Technically, supporting other stabs can be done, but the price will go higher.

Another point is, costar is perfect for base kit - take whitefox/nightfox for example, it looks better than cherry stab when you are using a case like this. Cherry stab needs a big hole in plate, which is ugly

Wait. So, is the lack of support for Cherry-style stabilizers due to the mother-and-child design as you originally answered, manufacturing cost restraints, or aesthetics? Or is it some combination of all three and then some?

Edit: Also just an FYI ~ you can click the Multi-Quote feature and then click Reply for multiple and/or similar questions.

Well, magnet is needed in the center split area. While no spaces at TGB and YHN, there is only space left at 3x space. As a result, the magnet is put there, its need a hole. CNC needs at least 3mm thickness, so you can guess only costar can do it.

If use pcb stab, CNC should do 1mm thickness which will cost too much. I guess at least $50-$100.

While the space is limited, its better to use 3x as there is more room.

PS. multi-quote is great feature! I never do it before! Thanks very much for your tips.


I didn't get it, care to explain better ? Maybe with some photos.   
Where is the magnet exactly and why adding pcb mounted stabs would change soo much the CNC process. 

>there is only space left at 3x space
What you mean O.o? 

I'm looking at your design and i'm trying so hard to understand what you said, but i really don't see a correlation, so please, if you don't mind, try to explain better. 

« Last Edit: Wed, 13 March 2019, 15:22:42 by KaosJ »

Offline Vigrith

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #116 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 16:09:52 »
Let's be honest **** costars, but the biggest, BIGGEST issue is the fact that the bars are 3u, it's super unsustainable for a LOT of people.

Offline KaosJ

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #117 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 17:16:46 »
Let's be honest **** costars, but the biggest, BIGGEST issue is the fact that the bars are 3u, it's super unsustainable for a LOT of people.

This, even if bad, costars are a lot less bad than 3u keys. You know, i actually want to use a keycap set on the keyboard lol

Let's face the cruel reality OP, few guys might say "ok let's do this with 3u and costars" (newcomers, maybe?), BUT the majority (like 95% of the people) that aren't even writing here, will NOT consider this keyboard even at $200 if it ends up to have costars and 3u (what is this, a Mistel keyboard lol?). Pretty sure that with 3u and costars for a $400 will be a big failed GB and i hope this will not happen since the design is very special and i see you put a lot of effort in it. 


Don't ruin everything for 3u and costars, it is a big deal,  don't rush the GB, just fix the design. I'm pretty sure there are multiple easy ways to do so and still i don't see the reasons for not fixing (I just didn't understand what you explained).

 I wouldn't mind to help you for free if it's needed. Just don't do the mistake to rush this GB, in the current state will be a fail, unless you wanted to limit the GB to max 10 units anyway. 
« Last Edit: Wed, 13 March 2019, 17:23:16 by KaosJ »

Offline RacerK1

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #118 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 17:21:19 »
I'm definitely out if it goes forward with 3u spacebars...

Offline unluckyxiii

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #119 on: Wed, 13 March 2019, 22:01:12 »
I really love this idea but I also agree that if I canít use my favorite gmk set on a keyboard I wonít get it. All GB are community driven to success maybe OP can consider the help offered by these nice people. I really wanna see this board come to reality!


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Offline regionfree

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #120 on: Thu, 14 March 2019, 02:46:21 »
while this is interesting, and nice, having costar stabs, and worse, 2x 3u spacebars, definitely kills this for me, and i don't think the designer will be changing it.

the only kits that have 3u spacebars are some of the SP SA kits, and the uninteresting pbt sets (which are either blank sets, or knock offs of popular sets). GMK has no 3u spacebars. a lot of enthusiasts invested money into their gmk sets.

the design is nice, but personally, not nice enough for me to ignore my gmk sets.

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #121 on: Thu, 14 March 2019, 04:47:00 »
So finally, I choose 3u as spacebar

I hadn't noticed that and that kinda worries me to be honest, whilst probably not a deal breaker for me because I have some Cherry PBT sets that do have 3u space bars, the vast majority of the more hardcore enthusiasts (which I'd say is the target audience for a board such as this) use GMK almost exclusively - not being able to outfit the board with that kind of sit is quite worrying, add that to the fact costar stabs are required and that's quite a few specific things that need to be met to be able to build and use this board.

As said, not a huge deal for me, but I can see it being a big hurdle for you moving forward. Not sure if that's something you'd like to consider, but I figured I'd bring it up regardless.

This.

3u spacebar? Goodbye non-China market and all who treasures their GMK set - OP can as well switch to simplified Chinese language
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Offline KaosJ

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #122 on: Thu, 14 March 2019, 16:14:01 »
I'm definitely out if it goes forward with 3u spacebars...

Mee too, how to turn a must buy into a easy no, sadly...

Offline HomerSp

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #123 on: Thu, 14 March 2019, 16:42:59 »
I agree with you all - better to get it right the first time, even if that means delaying it. Like I said, it's not too big of a problem to me, but I can definitely see how it would put off others (I only have a very basic set of keycaps myself).
You will certainly get a lot more interest if you do go forward and change it, so please do consider it.

Offline AdrianMan

  • Posts: 48
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #124 on: Sat, 16 March 2019, 22:19:26 »
Please don't do 3u spacebars :( 

Do 2.75 / 1.25 / 2.25 - compatibility is very very important.

Offline RDaneelOlivaw

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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #125 on: Sun, 17 March 2019, 14:42:17 »
I'm very interested, but agree with everyone else on the spacebars. Please make it with spacebars we can use from other cap kits.
He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.

Offline Uryftw

  • Posts: 25
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #126 on: Mon, 18 March 2019, 09:13:11 »
Hope this gets through, it looks amazing! However, as other users haver said, please don't make 3u spacebars :(

Offline Anaconda

  • Posts: 54
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #127 on: Tue, 19 March 2019, 09:53:54 »
Personally im fine with 3u spacebars, there are options for them and i bet gmk/sa will start producing them in the future. Other than that cherry stabs are a must and i do really think there should be a a normal solderable version of the pcb. Most people who are buying the most expensive kit will be enthusiasts and at least for me hot swap is a con when you are talking about a $500 keyboard.

Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 871
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #128 on: Tue, 19 March 2019, 15:08:44 »
3u... i bet gmk/sa will start producing them in the future.

Pretty sure it will not happen. No one uses 3u stabs except this gb apparently. 


Offline RDaneelOlivaw

  • Posts: 11
  • Don't Panic.
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #129 on: Tue, 19 March 2019, 21:04:27 »
Personally im fine with 3u spacebars, there are options for them and i bet gmk/sa will start producing them in the future. Other than that cherry stabs are a must and i do really think there should be a a normal solderable version of the pcb. Most people who are buying the most expensive kit will be enthusiasts and at least for me hot swap is a con when you are talking about a $500 keyboard.

Just curious: why would you consider hot swap a con?
He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.

Offline cyriously

  • Posts: 21
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #130 on: Tue, 19 March 2019, 22:52:07 »
3u... i bet gmk/sa will start producing them in the future.

Pretty sure it will not happen. No one uses 3u stabs except this gb apparently.
Uni660 first IC poll was heavily in favour of 3u spacebar.
But after many feedback, the designer settle with 2.25/2.75 regardless of IC poll results.

Online Anakey

  • Posts: 69
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #131 on: Wed, 20 March 2019, 03:20:53 »
The problem with hotswap sockets is that it can be quite hard to get the pins into the hotswap sockets themselves so there is a chance to accidentally force the socket off from the pcb potentially damaging traces should the solder pads also come away from the pcb. Plus for such a high end board as this you should already know what switches you want and are happy with the selection so you would not need to swap them anyway except if there is a faulty switch. Also doing away with the need for hotswap sockets means the pcb can be more flexible in terms of layouts as the total footprint of the sockets are massive compared to the normal holes for the switch.

Offline _ODIN_

  • Posts: 575
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #132 on: Wed, 20 March 2019, 07:24:50 »
The problem with hotswap sockets is that it can be quite hard to get the pins into the hotswap sockets themselves so there is a chance to accidentally force the socket off from the pcb potentially damaging traces should the solder pads also come away from the pcb. Plus for such a high end board as this you should already know what switches you want and are happy with the selection so you would not need to swap them anyway except if there is a faulty switch. Also doing away with the need for hotswap sockets means the pcb can be more flexible in terms of layouts as the total footprint of the sockets are massive compared to the normal holes for the switch.
This

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Offline Sylanthra

  • Posts: 21
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #133 on: Wed, 20 March 2019, 18:17:04 »
The problem with hotswap sockets is that it can be quite hard to get the pins into the hotswap sockets themselves so there is a chance to accidentally force the socket off from the pcb potentially damaging traces should the solder pads also come away from the pcb. Plus for such a high end board as this you should already know what switches you want and are happy with the selection so you would not need to swap them anyway except if there is a faulty switch. Also doing away with the need for hotswap sockets means the pcb can be more flexible in terms of layouts as the total footprint of the sockets are massive compared to the normal holes for the switch.

I've personally never had an issue with hotswap sockets ditaching from the board, but I suppose it is possible. As for "knowing which switches you want", not so much. I change switches on the boards that I use quite often to try out new types so I would vastly prefer having hotswabable board rather than having to make the mod myself.

Offline homerowco

  • Posts: 55
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #134 on: Wed, 20 March 2019, 19:04:05 »
this looked super existing until i saw it's 3u...

I have pretty much every split keyboard there is and I tell you, it has to have VEA style split space so it's compatible with existing split space kits etc. plus even if there is no kit, you can make it work with other keys of 2.25/2.75 size.

I saw the 3u favorite poll with the uni660, this happened later on - in the beginning VEA style split was leading far ahead. I told them the same on discord too that I think the 3u requests are from people having retail boards that have 3u split space and just don't know anything else or don't realize how rare it is in reality.

please do not do 3u, it would literally make it useless and it would be a shame not to get this keyboard just because no keyset would fit.


think about it like that, if you do 3u you will make a lot of people not buy it. if you do a standard format like the VEA split you will get all the orders that wouldnt order with 3u + the ones that would order either or. if you change it, we all win.

Offline Anaconda

  • Posts: 54
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #135 on: Thu, 21 March 2019, 10:17:31 »
Personally im fine with 3u spacebars, there are options for them and i bet gmk/sa will start producing them in the future. Other than that cherry stabs are a must and i do really think there should be a a normal solderable version of the pcb. Most people who are buying the most expensive kit will be enthusiasts and at least for me hot swap is a con when you are talking about a $500 keyboard.

Just curious: why would you consider hot swap a con?
Unless the plate is really well made the sockets aren't tight enough to hold the switches in place, and personally i feel the sockets negatively affect the typing experience. There is also the problem of the sockets coming loose and solderable pcb gives more layout options.

Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 871
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #136 on: Thu, 21 March 2019, 16:28:12 »
this looked super existing until i saw it's 3u...

I have pretty much every split keyboard there is and I tell you, it has to have VEA style split space so it's compatible with existing split space kits etc. plus even if there is no kit, you can make it work with other keys of 2.25/2.75 size.

I saw the 3u favorite poll with the uni660, this happened later on - in the beginning VEA style split was leading far ahead. I told them the same on discord too that I think the 3u requests are from people having retail boards that have 3u split space and just don't know anything else or don't realize how rare it is in reality.

please do not do 3u, it would literally make it useless and it would be a shame not to get this keyboard just because no keyset would fit.


think about it like that, if you do 3u you will make a lot of people not buy it. if you do a standard format like the VEA split you will get all the orders that wouldnt order with 3u + the ones that would order either or. if you change it, we all win.

This
I'm not even sure if nine-fox (OP) is still reading this post. 
Literally everyone except 2 new accounts disagree with 3u (expected) and most likely no one will buy this board with 3u and costars at the price of this board. I hope at least OP is still reading and saw our feedback (no answers so far, even a "let me think" after all this feedback would be good). 
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 March 2019, 16:33:39 by KaosJ »

Offline ullr

  • Posts: 221
  • Location: Plant City, FL
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #137 on: Thu, 21 March 2019, 17:05:55 »
I actually like costar stabs, but 3u caps are very nearly a deal breaker. The only keycap sets I would even consider buying that have 3u space bars are MT3 profile and they don't go on sale very often.

On the other hand I don't like the fad of having a modifier key to the right of the left spacebar, not sure why it is so common.

To keep all of the case dimensions the same I would suggest

left: 1.5 1 1.5 2.75
right: 2.75 1.5 1 1 1 1 1

But you can't please everybody

Offline nine-fox

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 55
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Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #138 on: Fri, 22 March 2019, 01:58:26 »
I actually like costar stabs, but 3u caps are very nearly a deal breaker. The only keycap sets I would even consider buying that have 3u space bars are MT3 profile and they don't go on sale very often.

On the other hand I don't like the fad of having a modifier key to the right of the left spacebar, not sure why it is so common.

To keep all of the case dimensions the same I would suggest

left: 1.5 1 1.5 2.75
right: 2.75 1.5 1 1 1 1 1

But you can't please everybody

Personally im fine with 3u spacebars, there are options for them and i bet gmk/sa will start producing them in the future. Other than that cherry stabs are a must and i do really think there should be a a normal solderable version of the pcb. Most people who are buying the most expensive kit will be enthusiasts and at least for me hot swap is a con when you are talking about a $500 keyboard.

Just curious: why would you consider hot swap a con?
Unless the plate is really well made the sockets aren't tight enough to hold the switches in place, and personally i feel the sockets negatively affect the typing experience. There is also the problem of the sockets coming loose and solderable pcb gives more layout options.

this looked super existing until i saw it's 3u...

I have pretty much every split keyboard there is and I tell you, it has to have VEA style split space so it's compatible with existing split space kits etc. plus even if there is no kit, you can make it work with other keys of 2.25/2.75 size.

I saw the 3u favorite poll with the uni660, this happened later on - in the beginning VEA style split was leading far ahead. I told them the same on discord too that I think the 3u requests are from people having retail boards that have 3u split space and just don't know anything else or don't realize how rare it is in reality.

please do not do 3u, it would literally make it useless and it would be a shame not to get this keyboard just because no keyset would fit.


think about it like that, if you do 3u you will make a lot of people not buy it. if you do a standard format like the VEA split you will get all the orders that wouldnt order with 3u + the ones that would order either or. if you change it, we all win.

This
I'm not even sure if nine-fox (OP) is still reading this post. 
Literally everyone except 2 new accounts disagree with 3u (expected) and most likely no one will buy this board with 3u and costars at the price of this board. I hope at least OP is still reading and saw our feedback (no answers so far, even a "let me think" after all this feedback would be good). 

this looked super existing until i saw it's 3u...

I have pretty much every split keyboard there is and I tell you, it has to have VEA style split space so it's compatible with existing split space kits etc. plus even if there is no kit, you can make it work with other keys of 2.25/2.75 size.

I saw the 3u favorite poll with the uni660, this happened later on - in the beginning VEA style split was leading far ahead. I told them the same on discord too that I think the 3u requests are from people having retail boards that have 3u split space and just don't know anything else or don't realize how rare it is in reality.

please do not do 3u, it would literally make it useless and it would be a shame not to get this keyboard just because no keyset would fit.


think about it like that, if you do 3u you will make a lot of people not buy it. if you do a standard format like the VEA split you will get all the orders that wouldnt order with 3u + the ones that would order either or. if you change it, we all win.

Thank you for your comments!

Been busy these days, working on another GB (just opened, see http://nine-fox.github.io/pad) so my reply is late. Sorry for that. 

Actually, I do not think 3u spacebar is un-acceptable. Take tex yoda II for example, even the keycap needs cutting, lots of people still need it - the most important one is that, it has trackpoint support (I am sure author tex yoda is aware of this, and then gmk keycap for tex yoda is out).

Another example is, mistel 68 split keyboard. That keyboard is *like* 3u, but not 3u. But still, it is on the market. The most important thing is, its the *only* one split keyboard which support RGB.

Considering the fact I have went so far, I will focus on 3u as for now(will change in R2 if there is), even interest check failed at outer China.

"You can't have it both ways".

Another good news is that, I been reached some keycap manufacturers in China, and customized keycaps (including 3u) can be supplied. I can design keycaps if I have time :-)

Online Anakey

  • Posts: 69
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #139 on: Fri, 22 March 2019, 06:09:04 »
so R1 will be for your china friends who all have 3u spacebars, then R2 will be for outside China that do not have 3u. You will not sell a board at this price where the only keyset that can be used is one that is offered with it.

Online Poesjuh

  • Posts: 345
  • Location: Netherlands - N-H
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #140 on: Fri, 22 March 2019, 06:46:54 »
I see a failed IC/GB coming which is a shame for such an interesting project :(


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Offline _ODIN_

  • Posts: 575
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #141 on: Fri, 22 March 2019, 07:29:41 »
I see a failed IC/GB coming which is a shame for such an interesting project :(


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Yeah. What is the point of an IC when you are not willing to adjust the product?

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Offline homerowco

  • Posts: 55
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #142 on: Fri, 22 March 2019, 08:19:07 »
I see a failed IC/GB coming which is a shame for such an interesting project :(
Yeah. What is the point of an IC when you are not willing to adjust the product?

Well, here is the issue... uni660 for example had maybe 500 votes? some 200 were for 3u - it's that insane.

People on retail boards like the tex/manila etc. are used to seeing 3u spacebars. The market in Asia for those boards is massive. So the GB wouldn't fail at all, he still will sell more than a similar GB in the US would sell for the same price even if the board is $600 - but he is excluding everyone that owns custom keysets and knows how hard it is to make 3u work, as in you can't.

Just a heads up, over the past 4-5 years I have argued with many people, many times about 3u as being total nonsense and I pretty much gave up because there is always 2-3 people saying it's "fine" because there "are sets available" - whichever sets those are. So these days I normally don't even comment on it anymore. You make a switch plate and a pcb that does not support split even though it only takes you 3 more switch footprints and an optional universal plate that you can easy run with the price you're going to sell the keyboard for? I won't buy it. You make a split keyboard with 3u? I wont buy it... this time I say something because I really like the concept.

Yeah, not sure why this is even an issue... could just support 3u and VEA split... from a technical standpoint that shouldn't be big issue. make the PCB support it, make different plates, rest of the keyboard stays the same. Everything is happy.

Anyway, it wont fail but it wont have as many sales as he could have. I'm going to look forward to V2 then, assuming it would also fix possible design issues we might benefit from this after all ;)

Offline Vigrith

  • Posts: 1528
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #143 on: Fri, 22 March 2019, 10:06:06 »
I'll gladly wait for the second revision with actual usable space bars. As homerow said, the Asian market uses 3u a bunch so that's the big issue when it comes to single layout PCBs/plates - either you miss the Asian market or you miss the Western one, it's just up to which one you want to target. If the 3u + costar buy were to be open internationally, I think it's actually realistic to think like 5 to 10 units would be sold outside of Asia depending on price, which for a board of this potential is obviously not what you'd hope for. It's that bad.

All in all, if the two versions cannot be offered at the same time, the only rational way to proceed is to just run it twice. Looking forward to that.

Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 871
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #144 on: Sat, 23 March 2019, 06:08:13 »
Thank you for your comments!

Been busy these days, working on another GB (just opened, see http://nine-fox.github.io/pad) so my reply is late. Sorry for that. 

Actually, I do not think 3u spacebar is un-acceptable. Take tex yoda II for example, even the keycap needs cutting, lots of people still need it - the most important one is that, it has trackpoint support (I am sure author tex yoda is aware of this, and then gmk keycap for tex yoda is out).

Another example is, mistel 68 split keyboard. That keyboard is *like* 3u, but not 3u. But still, it is on the market. The most important thing is, its the *only* one split keyboard which support RGB.

Considering the fact I have went so far, I will focus on 3u as for now(will change in R2 if there is), even interest check failed at outer China.

"You can't have it both ways".

Please do not try to compare or imitate a mistel keyboard with our custom keyboards. Mistel are good products along massproduced keyboards but you are trying to target a niche market (geekhack/reddit/keebtalk) so you shouldn't take the Mistel as source of ideas.

I really hope that you do a R2, making pcb stabilizers+ 2.25/2.75 possible, since this R1 is clearly for China only. I believe the number of keyboards you can sell on GH/Reddit/Keebtalk is Wei higher than what you can sell in China, so don't get discouraged when you will see max 5-10 orders from outside china on this R1.


Quote
Another good news is that, I been reached some keycap manufacturers in China, and customized keycaps (including 3u) can be supplied. I can design keycaps if I have time :-)

To be honest, we don't care, we want our GMK/SA keysets to match, no mixed profile or colors on our keyboards. 
We spend a lot on keysets, so we won't have spacebars with different shades of colors/material/profile. 
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 March 2019, 06:10:25 by KaosJ »

Online Poesjuh

  • Posts: 345
  • Location: Netherlands - N-H
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #145 on: Sat, 23 March 2019, 07:05:49 »
Wei higher, I see what you did there...


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Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 871
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #146 on: Sat, 23 March 2019, 07:09:41 »
Wei higher, I see what you did there...

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 ;)

Offline HomerSp

  • Posts: 19
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #147 on: Tue, 26 March 2019, 08:17:47 »
Looks like the web site is down... Bad news for this IC?

Offline cyriously

  • Posts: 21
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #148 on: Tue, 26 March 2019, 10:35:33 »
Looks like the web site is down... Bad news for this IC?
They changed the domain http://trkeyboard.com

Offline HomerSp

  • Posts: 19
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Re: [IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)
« Reply #149 on: Tue, 26 March 2019, 11:43:53 »
Oh yeah, sorry - I must have missed that, thank you!