Topre or other switch most comparable to mid-2015 macbook pro keyboard?

[grapefruit]

So, this is an odd request, I know, but I actually really like my mid-2015 macbook pro keyboard in terms of typing speed and accuracy. But I'd like the increased tactility and joy of a mechanical keyboard.

Currently I also have a Quick Fire Rapid with Cherry MX blues that I really dislike. I know people have talked about the strange relationship of the actuation point to the release point for Blues, and I think that may be it.

Right now I'm thinking Topre for my next keyboard. I don't think I like any of the Cherries all that much. The question is which Topre switch? 45 or 55, variable or fixed?

Or should I be thinking some other switch, like Alps?

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[EDIT and update --Jan 14, 2020... posted this below as a separate post but then thought I'd update this too: I tried a Realforce 55g, but it was not for me. I liked the basic feel of Topre, but didn't love it, and 55g was definitely too heavy for me. I could feel the finger fatigue coming on.

Overall I'd rather something clickier.

Given that... other recs for the next best keyboard to try?

I'd rather something that I didn't have to mod, that I can buy off the rack clean and new.]

[Sup]

If you like the laptop keys i think the best option would be to get a keyboard with ML switches. Short travel but still have that nice feeling of a mechanical keyboard.

[Polymer]

So, this is an odd request, I know, but I actually really like my mid-2015 macbook pro keyboard in terms of typing speed and accuracy. But I'd like the increased tactility and joy of a mechanical keyboard.

Currently I also have a Quick Fire Rapid with Cherry MX blues that I really dislike. I know people have talked about the strange relationship of the actuation point to the release point for Blues, and I think that may be it.

Right now I'm thinking Topre for my next keyboard. I don't think I like any of the Cherries all that much. The question is which Topre switch? 45 or 55, variable or fixed?

Or should I be thinking some other switch, like Alps?

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Why do you think the issue you have with Blues is the difference in actuation/reset?  Unless you're gaming and double tapping...it shouldn't really matter. 

Can you be a bit more specific about what you dislike about Cherry Blues?  Or just Cherry in general?  I know this might be hard because you may not have enough reference points to really clarify that, but it would be really useful.

Topre will feel and act a lot like a normal rubber dome keyboard you can buy for 20 dollars..It will have better stability, better smoothness, a more refined feel..and it actuates before you bottom out...but if you don't like the feel of a collapsing dome, you may not like them at all. 

Alps also have most of the pressure upfront so it collapses and I think they're very nice switches...they just seem to have reliability issues..as well as a lack of keycaps/options.

[_rubik]

The one part that I've yet to really understand is what aspects of the laptop keyboard you're trying to replicate.

 - If it's layout, then most 65% boards should fit the bill.
 - If it's travel, well, ML or low profile Kailhs are the closest you can get.
 - Another question is the key profile you're looking for. Mac keyboards are quite literally flat, so you're looking at either DSA (for standard MX stems) or Chocs (for Kailh low profile switches). There are a few other options, but I'm not too well versed in the low-profile world.

Topre switches aren't low profile nor do they have a flat profile, so you're pretty out of luck there. You can buy Topre boards in all sorts of layouts though! Complicated Alps are also in that same boat.

You may be interested in what Matias has to offer though? My recommendation is honestly try a bunch of different keyboards/switches to see what you like. Mac scissor switches don't really translate well into the world of mechanical keyboards.

[grapefruit]

So, this is an odd request, I know, but I actually really like my mid-2015 macbook pro keyboard in terms of typing speed and accuracy. But I'd like the increased tactility and joy of a mechanical keyboard.

Currently I also have a Quick Fire Rapid with Cherry MX blues that I really dislike. I know people have talked about the strange relationship of the actuation point to the release point for Blues, and I think that may be it.

Right now I'm thinking Topre for my next keyboard. I don't think I like any of the Cherries all that much. The question is which Topre switch? 45 or 55, variable or fixed?

Or should I be thinking some other switch, like Alps?

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Why do you think the issue you have with Blues is the difference in actuation/reset?  Unless you're gaming and double tapping...it shouldn't really matter. 

Can you be a bit more specific about what you dislike about Cherry Blues?  Or just Cherry in general?  I know this might be hard because you may not have enough reference points to really clarify that, but it would be really useful.

The blues in particular feel, well, it's hard to describe. There's something about the feedback from the keys that throws me off. It always feels as if I'm always using either too much or too little force; my fingers can't seem to find just the right amount. And I'm a good typist.

And maybe there's something about the keys that feels, well, a little sticky or something? It's very mild, but it's there, and feels like that's been the case from the beginning.

Perhaps it's simply that they're too stiff, that I don't like the amount of force required to actuate them?

I'm not quite sure. But I do know that my accuracy suffers when I'm using this keyboard for sure.

[grapefruit]

The one part that I've yet to really understand is what aspects of the laptop keyboard you're trying to replicate.

 - If it's layout, then most 65% boards should fit the bill.
 - If it's travel, well, ML or low profile Kailhs are the closest you can get.
 - Another question is the key profile you're looking for. Mac keyboards are quite literally flat, so you're looking at either DSA (for standard MX stems) or Chocs (for Kailh low profile switches). There are a few other options, but I'm not too well versed in the low-profile world.

Great question. It's not necessarily low travel. What is it about this keyboard that I like? I like the fact that they require very little work to press, and yet there is a crispness to them that makes it clear what buttons I've just hit. There is good feedback combined with real ease of pressing buttons. I guess that's what I like, if that makes sense.

[_rubik]

The one part that I've yet to really understand is what aspects of the laptop keyboard you're trying to replicate.

 - If it's layout, then most 65% boards should fit the bill.
 - If it's travel, well, ML or low profile Kailhs are the closest you can get.
 - Another question is the key profile you're looking for. Mac keyboards are quite literally flat, so you're looking at either DSA (for standard MX stems) or Chocs (for Kailh low profile switches). There are a few other options, but I'm not too well versed in the low-profile world.

Great question. It's not necessarily low travel. What is it about this keyboard that I like? I like the fact that they require very little work to press, and yet there is a crispness to them that makes it clear what buttons I've just hit. There is good feedback combined with real ease of pressing buttons. I guess that's what I like, if that makes sense.

That makes things a lot more clear. Sounds like you're looking for a lower weight switch with a decent amount of tactile feedback. The rest is all preference.

Halo stems have a decent amount of tactility along with most Zealios. I'm not sure by your original post if you'd like to build a custom board or buy something pre-built, but you'd be hard pressed to find those switches in a pre-build board unless you're buying second hand or commissioning something custom. Tricky part with pre-built boards: the lighter end of common tactile switches (Cherry Browns) are pretty garbage.

As for Topre (which are pretty much all pre-built), light domes are quite common! They're known to have a rounder tactile feel (not some sharp click) but that all depends on the type and weight of dome. All of my Topre domes have been on the heavier end of the spectrum, so I'll have to defer to someone else on that part.

Last thought: have you considered giving linears a try? Obviously they have no tactile feedback except for bottoming out, but the lighter switches (especially when lubed) have (in my opinion) the most buttery and effortless typing experience. That at least fits half the bill.

[Polymer]

So, this is an odd request, I know, but I actually really like my mid-2015 macbook pro keyboard in terms of typing speed and accuracy. But I'd like the increased tactility and joy of a mechanical keyboard.

Currently I also have a Quick Fire Rapid with Cherry MX blues that I really dislike. I know people have talked about the strange relationship of the actuation point to the release point for Blues, and I think that may be it.

Right now I'm thinking Topre for my next keyboard. I don't think I like any of the Cherries all that much. The question is which Topre switch? 45 or 55, variable or fixed?

Or should I be thinking some other switch, like Alps?

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Why do you think the issue you have with Blues is the difference in actuation/reset?  Unless you're gaming and double tapping...it shouldn't really matter. 

Can you be a bit more specific about what you dislike about Cherry Blues?  Or just Cherry in general?  I know this might be hard because you may not have enough reference points to really clarify that, but it would be really useful.

The blues in particular feel, well, it's hard to describe. There's something about the feedback from the keys that throws me off. It always feels as if I'm always using either too much or too little force; my fingers can't seem to find just the right amount. And I'm a good typist.

And maybe there's something about the keys that feels, well, a little sticky or something? It's very mild, but it's there, and feels like that's been the case from the beginning.

Perhaps it's simply that they're too stiff, that I don't like the amount of force required to actuate them?

I'm not quite sure. But I do know that my accuracy suffers when I'm using this keyboard for sure.

I know what you mean by they feel sticky....It is one of the reasons why I don't like blues...

Topre sounds like something you might enjoy....Just standard 45g.  If you want to try something a bit more interesting and you're using relatively proper technique, you might try variable Topre.  Great for typing, sucks for gaming (IMO).  Really easy on the hands...maybe not quite as thocky as uniform Topre..but definitely easier on the hands..

[grapefruit]

The one part that I've yet to really understand is what aspects of the laptop keyboard you're trying to replicate.

 - If it's layout, then most 65% boards should fit the bill.
 - If it's travel, well, ML or low profile Kailhs are the closest you can get.
 - Another question is the key profile you're looking for. Mac keyboards are quite literally flat, so you're looking at either DSA (for standard MX stems) or Chocs (for Kailh low profile switches). There are a few other options, but I'm not too well versed in the low-profile world.

Great question. It's not necessarily low travel. What is it about this keyboard that I like? I like the fact that they require very little work to press, and yet there is a crispness to them that makes it clear what buttons I've just hit. There is good feedback combined with real ease of pressing buttons. I guess that's what I like, if that makes sense.

That makes things a lot more clear. Sounds like you're looking for a lower weight switch with a decent amount of tactile feedback. The rest is all preference.

Halo stems have a decent amount of tactility along with most Zealios. I'm not sure by your original post if you'd like to build a custom board or buy something pre-built, but you'd be hard pressed to find those switches in a pre-build board unless you're buying second hand or commissioning something custom. Tricky part with pre-built boards: the lighter end of common tactile switches (Cherry Browns) are pretty garbage.

That makes sense. Thought I might like Browns, until I tried them, and didn't like them. They felt too mushy to me based on my 2-minute evaluation.

As for Topre (which are pretty much all pre-built), light domes are quite common! They're known to have a rounder tactile feel (not some sharp click) but that all depends on the type and weight of dome. All of my Topre domes have been on the heavier end of the spectrum, so I'll have to defer to someone else on that part.

Last thought: have you considered giving linears a try? Obviously they have no tactile feedback except for bottoming out, but the lighter switches (especially when lubed) have (in my opinion) the most buttery and effortless typing experience. That at least fits half the bill.

Linears would be, what, Cherry MX Black? Clear? Or something else?

[grapefruit]

So, this is an odd request, I know, but I actually really like my mid-2015 macbook pro keyboard in terms of typing speed and accuracy. But I'd like the increased tactility and joy of a mechanical keyboard.

Currently I also have a Quick Fire Rapid with Cherry MX blues that I really dislike. I know people have talked about the strange relationship of the actuation point to the release point for Blues, and I think that may be it.

Right now I'm thinking Topre for my next keyboard. I don't think I like any of the Cherries all that much. The question is which Topre switch? 45 or 55, variable or fixed?

Or should I be thinking some other switch, like Alps?

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Why do you think the issue you have with Blues is the difference in actuation/reset?  Unless you're gaming and double tapping...it shouldn't really matter. 

Can you be a bit more specific about what you dislike about Cherry Blues?  Or just Cherry in general?  I know this might be hard because you may not have enough reference points to really clarify that, but it would be really useful.

The blues in particular feel, well, it's hard to describe. There's something about the feedback from the keys that throws me off. It always feels as if I'm always using either too much or too little force; my fingers can't seem to find just the right amount. And I'm a good typist.

And maybe there's something about the keys that feels, well, a little sticky or something? It's very mild, but it's there, and feels like that's been the case from the beginning.

Perhaps it's simply that they're too stiff, that I don't like the amount of force required to actuate them?

I'm not quite sure. But I do know that my accuracy suffers when I'm using this keyboard for sure.

I know what you mean by they feel sticky....It is one of the reasons why I don't like blues...

Topre sounds like something you might enjoy....Just standard 45g.  If you want to try something a bit more interesting and you're using relatively proper technique, you might try variable Topre.  Great for typing, sucks for gaming (IMO).  Really easy on the hands...maybe not quite as thocky as uniform Topre..but definitely easier on the hands..

Variable topre is only on the Realforce, right?

[yui]

Linears would be, what, Cherry MX Black? Clear? Or something else?

Linear would be for cherry black(heavier), red(lighter), clear(even lighter), speed silver (red with higher actuation) and pink(silent red), there are grays but those came in all type and from deskautority are even heavier than blacks (and also silent blacks are gray), there are also gateron yellow that are in between black and red and kailh boxes version that have slightly shorter travel.

It seems that now the consensus is that kailh and gateron are making better versions of the switches when compared to cherry. (though pink kailh are clicky and gateron silent linear are also red and not pink).
hope that helps

[rxc92]

Variable topre is only on the Realforce, right?

 
Yep, variable is on the Realforce only. But now that the R2 is released, there's really no reason to buy a Leopold (who are using clones now), and you should only get an HHKB if you really like the layout. 
From what I've found, the variable weighting is very different on the 87 and 104. On both, the Esc is 55g and default is 45g. However, on the 87, the 1-Z column and columns left of 9-period are 30g. 
On the 107, it goes from 50 in the center, to 45, and then finally to 35 on the edges. It's a bit odd. 
 
Here, most people recommend the uniform weight, which is more common, but I'm not sure whether that's due to being afraid of something new (since MX boards are traditionally all the same weight) or because it's actually less optimal. I do agree that if you are the gaming type, do not get the variable as the all the a/s/d keys will have different weightings on a 107, or the a and s+d will have different weightings on an 87. This would probably throw you off in games.

[Polymer]

Lots of reasons why people like uniform...

Gaming is one big reason
OCD is another.  People nitpick at each individual key and it kills them to think one key is different than another.
Some is just personal preference...but honestly, variable is more comfortable to type on and when you're typing with "proper" form you don't really notice it is different...You might notice it thocks less....but in general, it feels the same...But when you go back to uniform, you realize how much harder your fingers are working and it just seems logical that it is better for your hands not to have that extra stress. 

If you're not gaming and you type with proper form....I'd recommend at least trying variable.....

[Sintpinty]

I swear if someone mentions butterfly switches in this thread 

[Kevadu]

The one part that I've yet to really understand is what aspects of the laptop keyboard you're trying to replicate.

 - If it's layout, then most 65% boards should fit the bill.
 - If it's travel, well, ML or low profile Kailhs are the closest you can get.
 - Another question is the key profile you're looking for. Mac keyboards are quite literally flat, so you're looking at either DSA (for standard MX stems) or Chocs (for Kailh low profile switches). There are a few other options, but I'm not too well versed in the low-profile world.

Great question. It's not necessarily low travel. What is it about this keyboard that I like? I like the fact that they require very little work to press, and yet there is a crispness to them that makes it clear what buttons I've just hit. There is good feedback combined with real ease of pressing buttons. I guess that's what I like, if that makes sense.

Based on this description I'm a bit shocked nobody has suggested box whites.  It's a clicky switch but the mechanism and feel are completely different from blue style clickies.  It's extremely clean and crisp.  Box whites are also very light and you said you wanted something that requires little work.  Kailh has made other variations on this design with different weights but whites are the lightest.

[grapefruit]

The one part that I've yet to really understand is what aspects of the laptop keyboard you're trying to replicate.

 - If it's layout, then most 65% boards should fit the bill.
 - If it's travel, well, ML or low profile Kailhs are the closest you can get.
 - Another question is the key profile you're looking for. Mac keyboards are quite literally flat, so you're looking at either DSA (for standard MX stems) or Chocs (for Kailh low profile switches). There are a few other options, but I'm not too well versed in the low-profile world.

Great question. It's not necessarily low travel. What is it about this keyboard that I like? I like the fact that they require very little work to press, and yet there is a crispness to them that makes it clear what buttons I've just hit. There is good feedback combined with real ease of pressing buttons. I guess that's what I like, if that makes sense.

Based on this description I'm a bit shocked nobody has suggested box whites.  It's a clicky switch but the mechanism and feel are completely different from blue style clickies.  It's extremely clean and crisp.  Box whites are also very light and you said you wanted something that requires little work.  Kailh has made other variations on this design with different weights but whites are the lightest.

Oh, interesting, thanks!

[treeleaf64]

You might not like light weight switches. I didn't. After I tried Alps, my life changed. They seem to have the perfect weighting. I recommend BOX Noble yellow - those are like Box whites, but slightly more tactility. I find that BOX whites are not too tactile.

Sincerely, treeleaf64

[grapefruit]

You might not like light weight switches. I didn't. After I tried Alps, my life changed. They seem to have the perfect weighting. I recommend BOX Noble yellow - those are like Box whites, but slightly more tactility. I find that BOX whites are not too tactile.

Sincerely, treeleaf64

Which ALPS keyboard do you recommend?

[treeleaf64]

Which ALPS keyboard do you recommend?

I will refer to switches, since there were many different keyboards with Alps in them that were produced over the company's lifespan.

If you find some slits in the top housing, it means that they are "pine" SKCM Alps, which were the first/second generations. Pine Alps feel better than the newer "bamboo" generation of Alps (more refined, better sounding; every improvement you can think of ).

Alps linears are great, but they're the weak link in the Alps lineup. The only thing that defines linears is smoothness, and optoelectric/Hall effect switches are smoother than Alps. However, I still think Alps linears have arguably one of the best sounds out of all the linear switches, with some exceptions.
 
If you like linears, you could buy a Dell AT101 and linear-mod it by removing the tactile leaves. You will be left with extremely smooth linear switches with a good weighting. If you get the version with slits/ the old Dell logo, this is the pine version; these switches feel good and should not be modded. Green Alps are even better than these, but are more expensive.

If you like clickies, you could click mod the AT101 or buy something with white Alps (these are heavy clicky switches, be warned). If you are willing to pay more than 100 dollars, you could search for some blue Alps. Blue Alps have a lighter weighting than white Alps, with a better click, sound, and tactile bump.

If you like tactiles, you should be able to find the Apple Extended Keyboard I on Ebay, by the name of M0115/M0116 (one is fullsize, one is not). These have orange/salmon Alps, which are very pleasant tactile switches. These will probably be your best bet; I recommend these over black Alps. The AEK II, which has damped creams/whites (model M3501), is less expensive but does not offer as good an experience IMO. And don't even bother with the M0487

SKCM Browns are the switches I am looking for; they are very rare, so I do not expect to have them any time soon. They have a very drawn out tactile bump, and are regarded as one of the best tactile switches ever made, apart from Neon Greens and Oranges).

tl;dr
Clicky = white Alps, or click modded at101.
Tactile = orange/salmon Alps
Linear = linear modded AT101

All depends on preference.

[treeleaf64]

A Dell At101 is a great starter board if you don't want to read my last post. It can be click or linear modded to achieve a great sound/feel.

[grapefruit]

Just an update: I tried a Realforce 55g, but it was not for me. I liked the basic feel of Topre, but didn't love it, and 55g was definitely too heavy for me. I could feel the finger fatigue coming on.

Overall I'd rather something clickier.

Given that... other recs for the next best keyboard to try?

I'd rather something that I didn't have to mod, that I can buy off the rack clean and new.

[Ilostmytoeinvietnam]

They do make small form factor mechanicals, namely kailh choc. The only good choc switches in my opinion is choc navy and choc jade. As far as tactile topre is amazing, but I recommend that you at least try black alps, orange alps, or salmon alps. Those are all worth a try, but if you want a tactile hill similar to that of the hhkb, (or the 2015 mac) try t1 or aliaz. All viable options, but that is just scratching the surface, and you should do your own research, but don’t say that you only like tactile switches, if you havent tried others. When my only board was a tactile, I thought I did. Now tactile is my least favorite, but not because tastes change, but just because i hadn't tried the alternative.

[treeleaf64]

And if you manage to get a Topre board, upgrade it with BKE redux domes.

[rxc92]

upgrade

 
Gonna have to toss a disagree on the choice of word there.

[Tactile]

This might be close to what you're after:

https://www.kensington.com/p/products/control/keyboards/kensington-slim-type-wired-keyboard/

[Erak606]

Just an update: I tried a Realforce 55g, but it was not for me. I liked the basic feel of Topre, but didn't love it, and 55g was definitely too heavy for me. I could feel the finger fatigue coming on.

Overall I'd rather something clickier.

Given that... other recs for the next best keyboard to try?

I'd rather something that I didn't have to mod, that I can buy off the rack clean and new.

Could you try a 45g? Those might be a better fit. Or even the variable weight.