Author Topic: Hello KB people!  (Read 1990 times)

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Offline meshcapo

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Hello KB people!
« on: Tue, 28 April 2020, 13:29:18 »
Hello from Cincinnati!
I've been a lurker since late 2017 and finally decided to join. I got started with mechanical keyboards by watching Chyrosran's videos, my claim to fame being asking him to do a TDXL of the MEI switches (I am so sorry!), and bought a ton of vintage keyboards before getting into the building game. I've two finished builds as of now:

1) A Kbdfans Tofu WKL with box blacks for the alphas and box reds for the mods and SP SA Lime keycaps
2) A Preonic Rev 3 with lubed Creams and SA 1976 ortholinear keyset

Right now I am interested in the 40% ortho life and looking forward to building my Niu Mini and Planck once I've all the parts I need.

Excited to be here!

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Hello KB people!
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 28 April 2020, 14:22:29 »
Hi meshcapo. Welcome to Geekhack.

What vintage boards have you got? What vintage switches do you like?

I love box switches, that first board sounds nice. I'm not a fan of Cherry MX black, but haven't tried box blacks on an actual board.

How do you like the creams vs the box blacks/reds? I always thought the box linears were pretty smooth, but I imagine they're not as smooth as Creams, Tealios, and Alpacas. I'm not linear connoisseur though either. Would be nice eventually swapping my MX reds in my gaming board some day though.

You've got glorious giant retro boards and you're building 40% boards? boat anchor overload?

Offline meshcapo

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Re: Hello KB people!
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 29 April 2020, 12:47:24 »
Hi meshcapo. Welcome to Geekhack.

What vintage boards have you got? What vintage switches do you like?

I love box switches, that first board sounds nice. I'm not a fan of Cherry MX black, but haven't tried box blacks on an actual board.

How do you like the creams vs the box blacks/reds? I always thought the box linears were pretty smooth, but I imagine they're not as smooth as Creams, Tealios, and Alpacas. I'm not linear connoisseur though either. Would be nice eventually swapping my MX reds in my gaming board some day though.

You've got glorious giant retro boards and you're building 40% boards? boat anchor overload?
Thanks, I am glad to be here.

I have the usual suspects. Model M, Chicony keyboards, Focus keyboards, BTCs etc. Out of all the vintage switches I've tried, and I haven't tried many of them, some of my favorites are buckling springs, White Alps, NEC Blue Ovals, Black Space Invaders, BTC dome with sliders, Yellow Alps, vintage MX Blacks. I am a clicky fan.

I was actually really surprised by the Box linears. Stock, I think they are at the same level of smoothness as the Creams if not exactly the same. I think they are good enough to be used un-lubed which is what I've done with my build. The Creams can sometimes feel "grainy", to me at least, whereas the Box linears are consistent. As a recent linear convert myself, I haven't yet tried the higher end linears so I am not sure how they compare. If you can stand desoldering an entire board, I would highly suggest swapping out the MX Reds.

I have a lot of vintage boards, dude. I am on the lookout for ones I don't have (Model-F, Blue/Green Alps, linear Space Invaders or Futaba MA Clicky) which I can afford otherwise I have more than enough vintage boards. Plus, I fell in love with the ortholinear layout so I want to take the next step and go 40%. I already own a Vortex Core so I really like the compactness of a 40% even if it involves a bajillion layers.




Offline Maledicted

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Re: Hello KB people!
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 29 April 2020, 13:32:43 »
Hi meshcapo. Welcome to Geekhack.

What vintage boards have you got? What vintage switches do you like?

I love box switches, that first board sounds nice. I'm not a fan of Cherry MX black, but haven't tried box blacks on an actual board.

How do you like the creams vs the box blacks/reds? I always thought the box linears were pretty smooth, but I imagine they're not as smooth as Creams, Tealios, and Alpacas. I'm not linear connoisseur though either. Would be nice eventually swapping my MX reds in my gaming board some day though.

You've got glorious giant retro boards and you're building 40% boards? boat anchor overload?
Thanks, I am glad to be here.

I have the usual suspects. Model M, Chicony keyboards, Focus keyboards, BTCs etc. Out of all the vintage switches I've tried, and I haven't tried many of them, some of my favorites are buckling springs, White Alps, NEC Blue Ovals, Black Space Invaders, BTC dome with sliders, Yellow Alps, vintage MX Blacks. I am a clicky fan.

I was actually really surprised by the Box linears. Stock, I think they are at the same level of smoothness as the Creams if not exactly the same. I think they are good enough to be used un-lubed which is what I've done with my build. The Creams can sometimes feel "grainy", to me at least, whereas the Box linears are consistent. As a recent linear convert myself, I haven't yet tried the higher end linears so I am not sure how they compare. If you can stand desoldering an entire board, I would highly suggest swapping out the MX Reds.

I have a lot of vintage boards, dude. I am on the lookout for ones I don't have (Model-F, Blue/Green Alps, linear Space Invaders or Futaba MA Clicky) which I can afford otherwise I have more than enough vintage boards. Plus, I fell in love with the ortholinear layout so I want to take the next step and go 40%. I already own a Vortex Core so I really like the compactness of a 40% even if it involves a bajillion layers.

You've felt some greats already, that's for sure. If you like SKCM whites, you're going to love blues. NEC blue ovals were a wonderful surprise to me as well. Doesn't the ping remind you a bit of a ukulele? I really need a space invaders boards, those clickies sure are nice, much better than most retro clickies, to be sure. Not sure that I have felt BTC domes with sliders. I imagine that I have since I used to have a ton of random old boards before I knew what mechanicals were. I'm sure I'll worry about those eventually. Yellow and Green Alps are are nice, agreed.

I had a feeling, but wasn't sure. You may have pushed me more firmly in that direction. It would be nice if my 130 switch tester that I ordered way back at the start of January would finally arrive. I have already completely desoldered and modified 6 or 7 OEM boards with different switches, even including ones with LEDs or diodes in the switch housing. I have an RGB K70 waiting around literally just because I knew it would be easier to swap switches on than one with regular in-switch red LEDs, though I imagine I'll modify my original old war horse K70 as well. Kailh released some silent box reds recently and I have some that are supposed to be coming in soon. I'll be interested in seeing how those feel vs Cherry MX, etc.

F ATs are wonderful keyboards. If you haven't felt capacitive buckling spring, you're really missing out. I don't think there's any comparison at all between it and membrane buckling spring. I haven't felt linear space invaders myself, but Futaba MA is a trap not worth getting caught in if you ask me. They apparently decompose in some way internally, meaning tactility changes wildly over time. I tried the whole screwdriver trick from Deskthority on a Samsung board I got with those switches. I must have spent hours trying to make them all relatively clicky again, and it still was pretty hard to make it consistent ... and some of those switches are currently permanently linear as a result and I may not be able to fix them without breaking the plastic rivets that hold the switch housings together and try to figure out a way to put them back together securely. On top of that, even when they're relatively tactile/clicky again, the feeling is smooth but not particularly refined. I think NEC blue ovals, which have a somewhat similar downstroke click, are better than Futaba MA at their best ... and they're rarely at their best. Definitely interesting though to feel if that doesn't deter you.

I can't do all of those layers, I use way too many hotkeys that involve arrow keys, etc, that already involve 3+ keys. I can see use cases for such boards though.

Offline meshcapo

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Re: Hello KB people!
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 01 May 2020, 11:14:54 »
Hi meshcapo. Welcome to Geekhack.

What vintage boards have you got? What vintage switches do you like?

I love box switches, that first board sounds nice. I'm not a fan of Cherry MX black, but haven't tried box blacks on an actual board.

How do you like the creams vs the box blacks/reds? I always thought the box linears were pretty smooth, but I imagine they're not as smooth as Creams, Tealios, and Alpacas. I'm not linear connoisseur though either. Would be nice eventually swapping my MX reds in my gaming board some day though.

You've got glorious giant retro boards and you're building 40% boards? boat anchor overload?
Thanks, I am glad to be here.

I have the usual suspects. Model M, Chicony keyboards, Focus keyboards, BTCs etc. Out of all the vintage switches I've tried, and I haven't tried many of them, some of my favorites are buckling springs, White Alps, NEC Blue Ovals, Black Space Invaders, BTC dome with sliders, Yellow Alps, vintage MX Blacks. I am a clicky fan.

I was actually really surprised by the Box linears. Stock, I think they are at the same level of smoothness as the Creams if not exactly the same. I think they are good enough to be used un-lubed which is what I've done with my build. The Creams can sometimes feel "grainy", to me at least, whereas the Box linears are consistent. As a recent linear convert myself, I haven't yet tried the higher end linears so I am not sure how they compare. If you can stand desoldering an entire board, I would highly suggest swapping out the MX Reds.

I have a lot of vintage boards, dude. I am on the lookout for ones I don't have (Model-F, Blue/Green Alps, linear Space Invaders or Futaba MA Clicky) which I can afford otherwise I have more than enough vintage boards. Plus, I fell in love with the ortholinear layout so I want to take the next step and go 40%. I already own a Vortex Core so I really like the compactness of a 40% even if it involves a bajillion layers.

You've felt some greats already, that's for sure. If you like SKCM whites, you're going to love blues. NEC blue ovals were a wonderful surprise to me as well. Doesn't the ping remind you a bit of a ukulele? I really need a space invaders boards, those clickies sure are nice, much better than most retro clickies, to be sure. Not sure that I have felt BTC domes with sliders. I imagine that I have since I used to have a ton of random old boards before I knew what mechanicals were. I'm sure I'll worry about those eventually. Yellow and Green Alps are are nice, agreed.

I had a feeling, but wasn't sure. You may have pushed me more firmly in that direction. It would be nice if my 130 switch tester that I ordered way back at the start of January would finally arrive. I have already completely desoldered and modified 6 or 7 OEM boards with different switches, even including ones with LEDs or diodes in the switch housing. I have an RGB K70 waiting around literally just because I knew it would be easier to swap switches on than one with regular in-switch red LEDs, though I imagine I'll modify my original old war horse K70 as well. Kailh released some silent box reds recently and I have some that are supposed to be coming in soon. I'll be interested in seeing how those feel vs Cherry MX, etc.

F ATs are wonderful keyboards. If you haven't felt capacitive buckling spring, you're really missing out. I don't think there's any comparison at all between it and membrane buckling spring. I haven't felt linear space invaders myself, but Futaba MA is a trap not worth getting caught in if you ask me. They apparently decompose in some way internally, meaning tactility changes wildly over time. I tried the whole screwdriver trick from Deskthority on a Samsung board I got with those switches. I must have spent hours trying to make them all relatively clicky again, and it still was pretty hard to make it consistent ... and some of those switches are currently permanently linear as a result and I may not be able to fix them without breaking the plastic rivets that hold the switch housings together and try to figure out a way to put them back together securely. On top of that, even when they're relatively tactile/clicky again, the feeling is smooth but not particularly refined. I think NEC blue ovals, which have a somewhat similar downstroke click, are better than Futaba MA at their best ... and they're rarely at their best. Definitely interesting though to feel if that doesn't deter you.

I can't do all of those layers, I use way too many hotkeys that involve arrow keys, etc, that already involve 3+ keys. I can see use cases for such boards though.

I've been on the lookout for a set of SKCM Blues for a while now but as of now, they are simply too expensive. I am sure they'll feel fantastic if I ever get my hands on them. I love the ping on the NEC blue ovals and as you said, they do sound musical. I think that keyboard really built my tolerance for ping so much so that it doesn't really bother me now. And they feel good to type on as well, nicer than SMK 2nd Gen clickies for me personally. Clicky space invaders are like the nicer versions of MX Blues in every regard. They are a bit too heavy for me but sound and feel good. 

BTC dome with sliders are really tactile and sound quite good to my ears. Definitely not "mechanical feeling" but they are actually my favorite tactile switch at this point. I haven't ever tried Topre and I'd wager Topre feels better than the BTCs but the BTCs are just so much cheaper. The keyboard I have is a BTC 5140 from HP, if you are looking for one.

The only desoldering project I would ever consider is a 40% keyboard. I have a WYSE 60 keyboard in excellent condition with smooth MX Blacks in it but I would never even dream of desoldering it for the switches. As soon as get my soldering iron in, I'll probably convert it to USB using a Teensy.

I hadn't heard of the silent Box switches. I'll keep an eye out and maybe you can let us know how they feel once you get them in.

I would settle for a Model F-XT at this point but again, too expensive for me currently. I definitely plan to get one as soon as I can since I've heard nothing but praise for the capacitive buckling springs. I'll take your advice about the Futaba MA clickies onboard. They definitely sound interesting but if they are as much of a nightmare as you say they are, I am better off staying away.

As I see it, using a 60% gets you comfortable with layers and 40% is just the natural step. To each their own though. QMK allows you to assign key combos to a single key but depending on how many layers you are using you might end up hitting the same number of keys anyway so it depends on your use case. I like the challenge of using multiple layers as it is forcing me to think up a layout I would be most comfortable and is a huge step towards keyboard personalization, which I feel is a huge justification for this entire hobby.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Hello KB people!
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 01 May 2020, 15:06:52 »
I've been on the lookout for a set of SKCM Blues for a while now but as of now, they are simply too expensive. I am sure they'll feel fantastic if I ever get my hands on them. I love the ping on the NEC blue ovals and as you said, they do sound musical. I think that keyboard really built my tolerance for ping so much so that it doesn't really bother me now. And they feel good to type on as well, nicer than SMK 2nd Gen clickies for me personally. Clicky space invaders are like the nicer versions of MX Blues in every regard. They are a bit too heavy for me but sound and feel good. 

BTC dome with sliders are really tactile and sound quite good to my ears. Definitely not "mechanical feeling" but they are actually my favorite tactile switch at this point. I haven't ever tried Topre and I'd wager Topre feels better than the BTCs but the BTCs are just so much cheaper. The keyboard I have is a BTC 5140 from HP, if you are looking for one.

The only desoldering project I would ever consider is a 40% keyboard. I have a WYSE 60 keyboard in excellent condition with smooth MX Blacks in it but I would never even dream of desoldering it for the switches. As soon as get my soldering iron in, I'll probably convert it to USB using a Teensy.

I hadn't heard of the silent Box switches. I'll keep an eye out and maybe you can let us know how they feel once you get them in.

I would settle for a Model F-XT at this point but again, too expensive for me currently. I definitely plan to get one as soon as I can since I've heard nothing but praise for the capacitive buckling springs. I'll take your advice about the Futaba MA clickies onboard. They definitely sound interesting but if they are as much of a nightmare as you say they are, I am better off staying away.

As I see it, using a 60% gets you comfortable with layers and 40% is just the natural step. To each their own though. QMK allows you to assign key combos to a single key but depending on how many layers you are using you might end up hitting the same number of keys anyway so it depends on your use case. I like the challenge of using multiple layers as it is forcing me to think up a layout I would be most comfortable and is a huge step towards keyboard personalization, which I feel is a huge justification for this entire hobby.

That's interesting to hear, because I have yet to feel any SMK switches and had just recently been thinking about hunting a board down. Your space invaders comparison to MX blues does sound like it aligns with my feelings. Still better than any clone I have felt though too, although I haven't felt Gaterons. I find MX blue way too light these days, too much buckling spring, blue Alps, and box thick clicks I suppose.

I think that a major part of the reason that I don't own any BTC dome with slider boards now is I most likely had already owned at least one or two before my parents had me donate them, years and years ago, before I knew anything about keyboard mechanisms. For that reason, and their very low cost and abundance, I haven't been in much hurry to snag one. It sure would be interesting to compare them to Topre though, yes, if I ever get a Topre board.

You wouldn't desolder anything other than a 40% out of principal, or because of how much less effort a 40% takes? The only vintage board I have pulled the switches out of is an old Unitek K151L, and that's partly because a few of the keys were not functioning ... because the diode legs had rusted through. They're cheap and plentiful, so I didn't destroy history. I put box jades in it, which is a wonderful combination. I'm generally against just harvesting switches and tossing a retro boards unless everything else literally cannot be saved. All of the other boards I have modified are just random modern-ish boards, like TG3s, a Das, a Corsair, etc.

Wyse boards are really cool. I hope to get one some day.

The silent box switches literally came out right before I ordered them. Ironically somebody was asking a question about silent switches on this forum, box switches were mentioned. Kaihua obviously used telepathy or something and swooped in to say that they had literally just released silent box switches and linked the their Aliexpress store page for them.

At this point, it is getting harder and harder to even find an F AT for less than $300, and the XT layout is basically unusable for most people (myself included). I would consider Ellipses' F62 and F77 reproductions. I'm using one right now. It weighs enough to literally anchor a small boat, the most solid brick of a keyboard I have ever beheld. Yes, Futaba MA is, unfortunately a nightmare. It is cool that they do sort of feel and sound like playing with the top of a glass jar lid, but it just isn't worth it.

You've got a point with setting up macro keys of sorts in place of complex hotkeys you would otherwise run out of fingers for with layering, but that would result in no less keys needing to be pressed than on a regular keyboard either way in many instances, and at that point then I'm stuck with an extremely specific key mapping that will eventually alter my muscle memory. You've got enough retro boards to understand it when I say that I type with one heck of a large variation of keyboards, on a whim, just to feel an interesting old switch sometimes. Going back to normal modern ANSI keyboards after typing mostly on something with the AT layout for a week can already be jarring enough. I can't even imagine going from some extremely proprietary mapping, which may well be (in some cases) more efficient/optimized for my use cases, back to a regular keyboard and trying to re-train myself. This is even more of an issue for me than it would be for most people in that very niche situation, as I am also a computer technician by trade. So, not only do I use one heck of a lot of retro keyboards with a lot of time-saving hotkeys, I also use one heck of a lot of random laptop and desktop keyboards that are not even mine with a lot of time-saving hotkeys.

Offline meshcapo

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Re: Hello KB people!
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 03 May 2020, 11:56:50 »
That's interesting to hear, because I have yet to feel any SMK switches and had just recently been thinking about hunting a board down. Your space invaders comparison to MX blues does sound like it aligns with my feelings. Still better than any clone I have felt though too, although I haven't felt Gaterons. I find MX blue way too light these days, too much buckling spring, blue Alps, and box thick clicks I suppose.

I think that a major part of the reason that I don't own any BTC dome with slider boards now is I most likely had already owned at least one or two before my parents had me donate them, years and years ago, before I knew anything about keyboard mechanisms. For that reason, and their very low cost and abundance, I haven't been in much hurry to snag one. It sure would be interesting to compare them to Topre though, yes, if I ever get a Topre board.

You wouldn't desolder anything other than a 40% out of principal, or because of how much less effort a 40% takes? The only vintage board I have pulled the switches out of is an old Unitek K151L, and that's partly because a few of the keys were not functioning ... because the diode legs had rusted through. They're cheap and plentiful, so I didn't destroy history. I put box jades in it, which is a wonderful combination. I'm generally against just harvesting switches and tossing a retro boards unless everything else literally cannot be saved. All of the other boards I have modified are just random modern-ish boards, like TG3s, a Das, a Corsair, etc.

Wyse boards are really cool. I hope to get one some day.

The silent box switches literally came out right before I ordered them. Ironically somebody was asking a question about silent switches on this forum, box switches were mentioned. Kaihua obviously used telepathy or something and swooped in to say that they had literally just released silent box switches and linked the their Aliexpress store page for them.

At this point, it is getting harder and harder to even find an F AT for less than $300, and the XT layout is basically unusable for most people (myself included). I would consider Ellipses' F62 and F77 reproductions. I'm using one right now. It weighs enough to literally anchor a small boat, the most solid brick of a keyboard I have ever beheld. Yes, Futaba MA is, unfortunately a nightmare. It is cool that they do sort of feel and sound like playing with the top of a glass jar lid, but it just isn't worth it.

You've got a point with setting up macro keys of sorts in place of complex hotkeys you would otherwise run out of fingers for with layering, but that would result in no less keys needing to be pressed than on a regular keyboard either way in many instances, and at that point then I'm stuck with an extremely specific key mapping that will eventually alter my muscle memory. You've got enough retro boards to understand it when I say that I type with one heck of a large variation of keyboards, on a whim, just to feel an interesting old switch sometimes. Going back to normal modern ANSI keyboards after typing mostly on something with the AT layout for a week can already be jarring enough. I can't even imagine going from some extremely proprietary mapping, which may well be (in some cases) more efficient/optimized for my use cases, back to a regular keyboard and trying to re-train myself. This is even more of an issue for me than it would be for most people in that very niche situation, as I am also a computer technician by trade. So, not only do I use one heck of a lot of retro keyboards with a lot of time-saving hotkeys, I also use one heck of a lot of random laptop and desktop keyboards that are not even mine with a lot of time-saving hotkeys.

I have a new old stock Monterey K110 with SMK clickies in it and I prefer the NEC Blue Ovals so make of that what you will. Of course, as most things keyboard related, this is a subjective opinion and I am sure you'll find plenty of people who would rate the switches the other way round.

Personally, I think that the clickbar switches have made MX Blues (and any clones) irrelevant and kinda pointless as far as modern clickies are considered.

The weight of the vintage clicky switches is a big reason behind why I moved to building my own keyboards. The modifiers with buckling springs and Alps are really difficult to hit with my pinkies. So, when I built my Tofu, it originally had Box Pinks for the alphas and Box Whites for the mods before I swapped those switches out for Box linears. I think I am going to continue with this trend for my other builds as well.

I think desoldering is just a pain especially with the subpar equipment that I have. That being said, the Wyse keyboard was a poor example since I agree with you that ripping switches out of beautiful vintage boards is just a crime and the Wyse is just so pretty.

Do you also own an IBM Model F? If you do, how do you think the reproductions compare with the originals when it comes to the switches?

I agree that switching between layouts is difficult. Much of my typing consists of special characters and those are almost never in the "familiar" position on these smaller boards so when I move back to my vintage boards it can be really disorienting. Fortunately, unlike you, I don't have to use random boards at times so the easiest solution for me would be to get rid of all of my staggered layout boards since I do prefer the ortho layout but if we weren't hoarding different keyboards for their different switches and layouts like there's no tomorrow then we wouldn't be here in the first place.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Hello KB people!
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 03 May 2020, 18:09:37 »
I have a new old stock Monterey K110 with SMK clickies in it and I prefer the NEC Blue Ovals so make of that what you will. Of course, as most things keyboard related, this is a subjective opinion and I am sure you'll find plenty of people who would rate the switches the other way round.

Interesting, that makes NEC blue ovals sound like even more of a hidden gem than I had already thought.


Personally, I think that the clickbar switches have made MX Blues (and any clones) irrelevant and kinda pointless as far as modern clickies are considered.

100% agreement. MX clickies are as good as dead.

The weight of the vintage clicky switches is a big reason behind why I moved to building my own keyboards. The modifiers with buckling springs and Alps are really difficult to hit with my pinkies. So, when I built my Tofu, it originally had Box Pinks for the alphas and Box Whites for the mods before I swapped those switches out for Box linears. I think I am going to continue with this trend for my other builds as well.

Membrane buckling spring is pretty stiff indeed, and I found them to not be very consistent or smooth either, so it is almost embarrassing to say that I just went back to MX blue at the time I tried them. I got the board from a Model M fanatic, so I don't think the board needs extensive restoration, and I now own 4 Model Ms and none of them feel particularly great. It wasn't until I got an F XT that I bothered looking into more vintage switches.

I think desoldering is just a pain especially with the subpar equipment that I have. That being said, the Wyse keyboard was a poor example since I agree with you that ripping switches out of beautiful vintage boards is just a crime and the Wyse is just so pretty.

Yeah, desoldering isn't fun. A nice electric desoldering pump helps a lot though. No doubt, some of those Wyse boards look great.

Do you also own an IBM Model F? If you do, how do you think the reproductions compare with the originals when it comes to the switches?

I own one F XT, and two F ATs. The F77 wasn't quite as smooth at first, but it took very little for it to wear in and feel just as smooth as the others. The two differences I did notice is that the F77 springs seemed a little lighter than the originals, which are themselves lighter than a Model M, and that the springs on mine buckle higher up than the original Fs, closer to a Model M. I used Model M caps, because that particular board came with none, and I have been told that that's why the springs buckle higher. Apparently the M and F cap designs are slightly different. Ellipse is making reproduction caps, and is working on recreating XT quality legend printing, so the few options he does currently have in stock to ship right now have no legends.

I agree that switching between layouts is difficult. Much of my typing consists of special characters and those are almost never in the "familiar" position on these smaller boards so when I move back to my vintage boards it can be really disorienting. Fortunately, unlike you, I don't have to use random boards at times so the easiest solution for me would be to get rid of all of my staggered layout boards since I do prefer the ortho layout but if we weren't hoarding different keyboards for their different switches and layouts like there's no tomorrow then we wouldn't be here in the first place.

Yup, hopefully some day someone will perfectly recreate SKCM blues, then you can have your cake and eat it too.

Offline meshcapo

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Re: Hello KB people!
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 05 May 2020, 19:50:02 »
Membrane buckling spring is pretty stiff indeed, and I found them to not be very consistent or smooth either, so it is almost embarrassing to say that I just went back to MX blue at the time I tried them. I got the board from a Model M fanatic, so I don't think the board needs extensive restoration, and I now own 4 Model Ms and none of them feel particularly great. It wasn't until I got an F XT that I bothered looking into more vintage switches.

That's interesting. I find membrane buckling springs nice to type on (although I'll probably re-evaluate them once I finally get my hands on some capacitive buckling springs) and my only beef with them are the modifiers which incidentally is also my complaint with Alps keyboards. I guess I need to get some capacitive buckling springs or green Alps since they are both lighter.

I own one F XT, and two F ATs. The F77 wasn't quite as smooth at first, but it took very little for it to wear in and feel just as smooth as the others. The two differences I did notice is that the F77 springs seemed a little lighter than the originals, which are themselves lighter than a Model M, and that the springs on mine buckle higher up than the original Fs, closer to a Model M. I used Model M caps, because that particular board came with none, and I have been told that that's why the springs buckle higher. Apparently the M and F cap designs are slightly different. Ellipse is making reproduction caps, and is working on recreating XT quality legend printing, so the few options he does currently have in stock to ship right now have no legends.

Hmm, the way IBM Model-Fs are listed now on eBay, I think the Ellipse reproductions might be the only way to acquire capacitive buckling springs soon. I am relieved to hear that they got the switches right although it's a shame about the keycaps. I absolutely detest blank keycaps and it'll be a shame to strip my Model-M for its keycaps.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Hello KB people!
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 05 May 2020, 23:23:04 »
That's interesting. I find membrane buckling springs nice to type on (although I'll probably re-evaluate them once I finally get my hands on some capacitive buckling springs) and my only beef with them are the modifiers which incidentally is also my complaint with Alps keyboards. I guess I need to get some capacitive buckling springs or green Alps since they are both lighter.

I never have, maybe I'm missing something though. I should tear one apart, clean every inch, bolt mod it, and force myself to use it a week or two straight to give it a fair shake. That's gong to take some effort though, and I have plenty of Alps boards I could be cleaning up instead.

Green Alps are wonderful, hard to describe even. There's something else about them that makes them wonderful to type on than simply being smooth. Those are linears though. Blues are said to be a tad lighter than whites, but maybe not enough to help your modifier situation. I should compare them myself some time. My Omnikey with white Alps is one of the boards that could use some cleaning too though.

Hmm, the way IBM Model-Fs are listed now on eBay, I think the Ellipse reproductions might be the only way to acquire capacitive buckling springs soon. I am relieved to hear that they got the switches right although it's a shame about the keycaps. I absolutely detest blank keycaps and it'll be a shame to strip my Model-M for its keycaps.

You still find F ATs for $200, or less, but you need some patience. People try to sell them for $500+ left and right but I don't think anybody ever actually bites at those prices. I rarely see F122s for any less than that at all anymore though. I should have snagged one before, but I hopefully have an F107 coming tomorrow anyway. I figure that pretty well covers my unnecessarily gigantic IBM board bases pretty well. If you look in the Great Buys section on here from time to time, people will post deals that they don't feel like going for themselves.

You can find parts Ms for prices rivaling new cap sets from Unicomp if you look often enough. I snagged one right before I won the F77 in an auction, in anticipation of doing so. I paid just under $40 shipped. It was from the late 80s to boot. All that was apparently wrong with it was the housing for the SDL connector was broken off. I imagine I could fix that, and probably should, since it actually seemed to be in the best shape of any of mine otherwise.