FC900R v FC980M/C

[mobileb]

While I currently have smaller keyboards (HHKB/FC600C), I was thinking about getting a full size keyboard ... or at least one with a number pad. I want to use it for gaming as well as 3d modeling (number pad is helpful). As I am on a Mac, I ideally want a keyboard that allows me to swap the Alt and Win key. And preferably allows swapping Caps Lock for Control. I really do not want to use keymapping software and prefer it be configured via dip switches. The FC900R and FC980M/C should allow for this.

Does anyone have both ... or tried both? Thoughts on which one is better. And in the case of the FC980M/C is the extra cost for the topre worth it? Right now it seems I could get 30g topre (or at least pre-order it), but given my current topre are 45g, I suspect that will be too light.

Any other keyboard recommendations that would fit the bill are welcome.

[jamster]

I have no experience with Mac keyboard considerations, but personally there's no way I could go back to stock Cherry switches after becoming accustomed to Topre (or modified Cherry switches). I'd have to be prepared to sink in hours and hours of effort to mod the switches into something acceptable.

Then again, I've also tried 30g Topre and it's laughably light- would strongly suggest not buying it blind.

Sorry, I realise this isn't much help, it's basically saying not to buy anything at the moment.

[mobileb]

I have no experience with Mac keyboard considerations, but personally there's no way I could go back to stock Cherry switches after becoming accustomed to Topre (or modified Cherry switches). I'd have to be prepared to sink in hours and hours of effort to mod the switches into something acceptable.

Then again, I've also tried 30g Topre and it's laughably light- would strongly suggest not buying it blind.

Sorry, I realise this isn't much help, it's basically saying not to buy anything at the moment.

This is helpful. It is good to hear a reference point about the 30s. I suspected it would be much too light, and you're confirming that it would be.

I too am a fan of the topre. I have used Cherry before (I still have a Ducky kb) and am okay with them. Toying with the non topre variants mainly because I wouldn't be typing with them consistently ... so it may not be worth the extra cost of the topre in that case.

[jamster]

Some of the Topre clones sound pretty appealing (I have one). Also by the sounds of it, some of the MX clones might be worth looking into. It's just that the Filco Leopold boards only come with Cherry, which I consider a bit limiting.

[HungerMechanic]

The stock Cherry switches are one of the most limiting factors of the Leopold boards. Imagine what they would be if they came with custom switches. You can get a taste of that at the Varmilo custom shop.

The FC900 is a bit plain. The upper-right corner has a Leopold logo on it, with no LEDs, while the other boards [including the 980] eschew such signage. I like mine, but they are extensively modded.

The FC980 is more unique. Most owners are very pleased with them. They probably go well with 9009 and other GMK classics, if you can get ahold of those. Even the stock keycaps are great. Topre 980 is also well-liked, although it may have some minor variances from other Leopold Topre boards from what I've read. Still, a unique experience in the Topre world. Put KBDFans EC9009 on it!

[jamster]

Stock Cherry switches on so many otherwise appealing boards is just so frustrating. I've been wanting to try a Kinesis, but no way am I going to desolder switches off a weird shaped PCB (and possibly break something) to get something acceptable.

[Riverman]

I used an FC900 on a Mac for a while, and it was fine.  Personally, I think the easier way to swap the Alt and Windows keys is to just do it in the keyboard preference pane.  That even allows you to do it per keyboard, so if you use a different one on occasion, like an Apple keyboard, your change only applies to the Leopold.

I'd also recommend that you check out the Varmilo VA108Mac.  It has Mac and Windows modes that swap the keys for you, and has all of the proper Mac keycaps legends.  The only downside is that it only comes in all white, and the case has a slightly weird woodgrain finish.  I took a look at their keyboard customizer, and while I'd love to order something custom from them, shipping is over $100 to the US, which is a total dealbreaker.  They won't sell keycaps separately, either.  I'd kill for a set of their Mac keycaps in something other than white.

[mobileb]

I used an FC900 on a Mac for a while, and it was fine.  Personally, I think the easier way to swap the Alt and Windows keys is to just do it in the keyboard preference pane.  That even allows you to do it per keyboard, so if you use a different one on occasion, like an Apple keyboard, your change only applies to the Leopold.

I'd also recommend that you check out the Varmilo VA108Mac.  It has Mac and Windows modes that swap the keys for you, and has all of the proper Mac keycaps legends.  The only downside is that it only comes in all white, and the case has a slightly weird woodgrain finish.  I took a look at their keyboard customizer, and while I'd love to order something custom from them, shipping is over $100 to the US, which is a total dealbreaker.  They won't sell keycaps separately, either.  I'd kill for a set of their Mac keycaps in something other than white.

Hmm, I didn't realize that Mac's keep track of keyboards. I guess I assumed not, because I often find when swapping keyboards, I usually get asked to identify it by pressing the keys next to shift. I'll have to look into that more!

[Maledicted]

I have never owned any of these boards, but I have a 55g 87u now. I echo the same concerns with being stuck with Cherry MX. I don't even particularly like tactiles, more of a clicky guy, but if it were between Topre and just about everything in the MX lineup ... I would probably prefer to stick with Topre myself.

Which MX switches were you looking at? Do they put clears in the FC900R? I can't think of another MX switch I would possibly want over Topre, and I'm not a huge fan of MX clear either.

How much are you using it in a day where you think that MX won't be a big deal?

[Polymer]

While I currently have smaller keyboards (HHKB/FC600C), I was thinking about getting a full size keyboard ... or at least one with a number pad. I want to use it for gaming as well as 3d modeling (number pad is helpful). As I am on a Mac, I ideally want a keyboard that allows me to swap the Alt and Win key. And preferably allows swapping Caps Lock for Control. I really do not want to use keymapping software and prefer it be configured via dip switches. The FC900R and FC980M/C should allow for this.

Does anyone have both ... or tried both? Thoughts on which one is better. And in the case of the FC980M/C is the extra cost for the topre worth it? Right now it seems I could get 30g topre (or at least pre-order it), but given my current topre are 45g, I suspect that will be too light.

Any other keyboard recommendations that would fit the bill are welcome.

If you just want a numberpad, I'd go with the 1800 over full..that extra space is simply too good to pass up. 

30g topre will feel incredibly light and really nothing like Topre if you're used to 45g..I wouldn't even consider it.

As far as going with Leopold Topre...definitely.  If you like Topre, I'd go that way...obviously you'd be stuck w/ the existing keycaps that it comes with but that isn't too bad....

That said, the 980m is a lot cheaper and their doubleshot pbt keycaps are pretty good and there is a pretty decent selection of colorways although some might not be easy to get in the US. 

[mobileb]

I have never owned any of these boards, but I have a 55g 87u now. I echo the same concerns with being stuck with Cherry MX. I don't even particularly like tactiles, more of a clicky guy, but if it were between Topre and just about everything in the MX lineup ... I would probably prefer to stick with Topre myself.

Which MX switches were you looking at? Do they put clears in the FC900R? I can't think of another MX switch I would possibly want over Topre, and I'm not a huge fan of MX clear either.

How much are you using it in a day where you think that MX won't be a big deal?

MX switch-wise, probably silent Reds. Mainly to help suppress some of the sound. I have a Ducky Shine 3 with blues, but that's too noisy. I've tried Browns and Reds. They are def not Topre, but given I don't plan on using the keyboard for a lot of typing, it may not matter. The keyboard is really geared for gaming and when I 3D model (numpad is helpful). Gaming on HHKB isn't great.

If you just want a numberpad, I'd go with the 1800 over full..that extra space is simply too good to pass up. 

30g topre will feel incredibly light and really nothing like Topre if you're used to 45g..I wouldn't even consider it.

As far as going with Leopold Topre...definitely.  If you like Topre, I'd go that way...obviously you'd be stuck w/ the existing keycaps that it comes with but that isn't too bad....

That said, the 980m is a lot cheaper and their doubleshot pbt keycaps are pretty good and there is a pretty decent selection of colorways although some might not be easy to get in the US. 

Yeah, I suspect 30s would suck. I contacted mechanicalkeyboards and they don't have any open orders for 980c. So I'm thinking a 980m will work. Plus with the "money savings" I can get another keyboard later on this year  . I was thinking of adding a FC660C silent to my arsenal.

[Maledicted]

I have never owned any of these boards, but I have a 55g 87u now. I echo the same concerns with being stuck with Cherry MX. I don't even particularly like tactiles, more of a clicky guy, but if it were between Topre and just about everything in the MX lineup ... I would probably prefer to stick with Topre myself.

Which MX switches were you looking at? Do they put clears in the FC900R? I can't think of another MX switch I would possibly want over Topre, and I'm not a huge fan of MX clear either.

How much are you using it in a day where you think that MX won't be a big deal?

MX switch-wise, probably silent Reds. Mainly to help suppress some of the sound. I have a Ducky Shine 3 with blues, but that's too noisy. I've tried Browns and Reds. They are def not Topre, but given I don't plan on using the keyboard for a lot of typing, it may not matter. The keyboard is really geared for gaming and when I 3D model (numpad is helpful). Gaming on HHKB isn't great.

Oh, well then. Gaming is another beast entirely. I haven't felt 45G Topre, but if you think those are too light, I would imagine silent reds may be an issue as well. I still use MX reds for gaming, and the single thing I dislike most is how they're just light enough for me to accidentally actuate without meaning to when resting my fingers on the keys. If you're stuck with very specific MX switches though, and you want it to be quiet, and you want to use it for gaming ... MX silent red may be the ticket over Topre.

[Polymer]

MX switch-wise, probably silent Reds. Mainly to help suppress some of the sound. I have a Ducky Shine 3 with blues, but that's too noisy. I've tried Browns and Reds. They are def not Topre, but given I don't plan on using the keyboard for a lot of typing, it may not matter. The keyboard is really geared for gaming and when I 3D model (numpad is helpful). Gaming on HHKB isn't great.

I use Topre for normal typing stuff and MX Silents for gaming...I use browns as well but have probably switched mostly to silent for awhile...

[Maledicted]

MX switch-wise, probably silent Reds. Mainly to help suppress some of the sound. I have a Ducky Shine 3 with blues, but that's too noisy. I've tried Browns and Reds. They are def not Topre, but given I don't plan on using the keyboard for a lot of typing, it may not matter. The keyboard is really geared for gaming and when I 3D model (numpad is helpful). Gaming on HHKB isn't great.

I use Topre for normal typing stuff and MX Silents for gaming...I use browns as well but have probably switched mostly to silent for awhile...

Reds? Wouldn't it be nice if Cherry made something more like a Gateron yellow? I can't imagine I would want to use silent black even for gaming. I imagine the switch housings can't be opened on these Leopolds?

[Riverman]

They can't be opened without unsoldering the switches.

[Maledicted]

They can't be opened without unsoldering the switches.

In this case, that's a shame. If it were me then, I would be considering desoldering whatever crap they came with, and off with it to a bag somewhere forevermore like the rest of my shunned MX switches.

[Polymer]

MX switch-wise, probably silent Reds. Mainly to help suppress some of the sound. I have a Ducky Shine 3 with blues, but that's too noisy. I've tried Browns and Reds. They are def not Topre, but given I don't plan on using the keyboard for a lot of typing, it may not matter. The keyboard is really geared for gaming and when I 3D model (numpad is helpful). Gaming on HHKB isn't great.

I use Topre for normal typing stuff and MX Silents for gaming...I use browns as well but have probably switched mostly to silent for awhile...

Reds? Wouldn't it be nice if Cherry made something more like a Gateron yellow? I can't imagine I would want to use silent black even for gaming. I imagine the switch housings can't be opened on these Leopolds?

The MX Silent Reds I think are pretty good..feel slightly tighter than normal Reds..slightly heavier although I don't think they are supposed to be..

I wouldn't use blacks..just too heavy..

[mobileb]

I ended up pulling the trigger on FC980M with silent reds. It's pre-order right now, so we'll see if the order gets fulfilled

[mobileb]

I did finally get my FCR980M with silent reds a few weeks back. Overall, I'm pretty happy with it. I wasn't quite too sure how I would like the silent reds, but at the end of the day, I like them. They keyboard itself is built like a tank. It's super heavy. I do like the feel of it. A couple of quirks I  have noticed.

Unlike the FC600C, the Left Ctrl/Caps Lock DIP switch behaves differently. On the FC600C, the smaller Left Ctrl key in the lower left remains a Left Ctrl with one quirk ... pressing this lower left Ctrl + Caps Lock will trigger Caps Lock. In the FC980M, it swaps the two. They also provided a keycap replacement for when you remap. This was perhaps done because there is a dedicated Caps Lock LED above the number pad key cluster.

Their micro USB is somewhat custom. What I mean by this is that the plug is shorter thank most other plugs. This is because of the space the designate for connecting the cable to the keyboard. I originally thought I would just swap out the keyboard via the cable connection to the keyboard. But this won't work because of this ... as well as they lock the cable in place which is probably a good thing, since I've ready that the FC600C has had USB connector issues.

Those are both super minor issues. Overall, super happy with the purchase.

[WholesomeDucky]

I did finally get my FCR980M with silent reds a few weeks back. Overall, I'm pretty happy with it. I wasn't quite too sure how I would like the silent reds, but at the end of the day, I like them. They keyboard itself is built like a tank. It's super heavy. I do like the feel of it. A couple of quirks I  have noticed.

Glad to hear you are enjoying it! I think a FC980M is probably going to be my next board. Super interested in the layout.

Unlike the FC600C, the Left Ctrl/Caps Lock DIP switch behaves differently. On the FC600C, the smaller Left Ctrl key in the lower left remains a Left Ctrl with one quirk ... pressing this lower left Ctrl + Caps Lock will trigger Caps Lock. In the FC980M, it swaps the two. They also provided a keycap replacement for when you remap. This was perhaps done because there is a dedicated Caps Lock LED above the number pad key cluster.

This is interesting to know.... It also behaves this way on the FC660M. It sounds like rertaining both keys as Ctrl is exclusive to the Topre versions of the boards.

[Shikada]

I think one thing that helps with this decision for any future buyers is that you can't get a FC980C unused. So if you don't want to go with second hand, it's not even worth considering.

[mobileb]

What do you mean you can't get an FC980C unused? I was going to buy one from here https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=366. You can pre-order. But I didn't want to get 30g. And it was hard for me to justify the price given it won't be a daily driver for me.