Tenkeyless vs 60key & Cherry brown vs Topre

[rustybarnacle]

The short version:

HHKB, Realforce 87u, or Tenkeyless whatever w/cherry browns - which to buy?

The TLDR version:

I've been lurking on here for some time, and finally registered so I could search and post.  I'm relieved to know there are plenty of people with the same addiction to decent peripherals that I have.  I'm writing this right now on a Das Keyboard III Ultimate with Cherry Blues.  I also have a deck legend toxic with blacks in a closet (which i no longer wish to own, so check the classifieds in the immediate future if interested).

Part 1 - I use the same keyboard at home and work, that is to say, the DAS w/blues.  However, a couple weeks ago the following happened - I spilled a can o' coke on my keyboard at work.  I've bathed it, rinsed it, pulled it apart, worked rubbing alcohol into all the working parts etc.  And it just isn't quite the same as it used to be.  Sure, it works, but it just isn't...right anymore.  So it needs to be replaced.  This brings me to...

Part 2 of the saga: My wife hates cherry blues.  She can hear them anywhere in the house and she gets testy about it.  They have also at least once been the scapegoat for my 2 year old waking up at night.  So I bought an apple aluminium keyboard because it was cheap and quiet.  It also doesn't suit me very well.    

Part 3 - The Master Plan:  Obviously I'll just bring the Das i have at home to the office, where annoying my coworkers is a hobby.  But then I need another real keyboard at home.  Here's what I know I want:

• No numpad
• US layout
• Not cherry blue switches (but something mechanical and nice obviously)
• Dip switches to swap caps lock for control is a plus
• Blank key caps (I like people not messing with my pc because they can't touch type)
• Money isn't that big of an issue, but the topre boards do at least raise an eyebrow

I think I have the candidates whittled down to the following:

• the HHKB pro 2 in black w/blank keycaps
• A realforce 87u
• A filco/leopold tenkeyless w/browns
• A KBC Poker
• A noppoo choc mini

I've searched various posts, read a variety of reviews, and am still torn.  I've never laid hands on topre switches, so I don't know if they're the mecca of switches as some lead me to believe.  The geeky compactness of the HHKB is appealing, but it is unclear how I would like the layout, and how much i would miss the inverted T and the various ins/del/pgup/pgdn keys (i'm certain I could live with fn+# to get F keys).  So lets hear your opinions (again) in a single consolidated thread.

In terms of timeframe, i'm not real rushed, but I'd like to get this settled this month.

edit: added some keyboards to the list

[sixty]

Did you consider the KBC Poker? Best of both worlds, for the laughable price of $80.

Imsto (the admin of KBC) is running a group-buy for the Poker here on Geekhack.

It also has the dip switches like you wanted. Best of both worlds!

[rustybarnacle]

Did you consider the KBC Poker? Best of both worlds, for the laughable price of $80.

Imsto (the admin of KBC) is running a group-buy for the Poker here on Geekhack.

It also has the dip switches like you wanted. Best of both worlds!

It does look like a very decent option.  And the layout seems superior to the HHKB as well, or, at least easier to get used to from a 104 layout.  Might have to give this a whirl.  Thanks for the info.

Also - from a usage (not modding) perspective - what is the difference between pcb mounted and plate mounted switches?  I believe the DAS are plate mounted, and i'm not sure what the deck has...

[sixty]

Also - from a usage (not modding) perspective - what is the difference between pcb mounted and plate mounted switches?  I believe the DAS are plate mounted, and i'm not sure what the deck has...

There is a difference in feel, and on some boards in terms of flexing. Personally I prefer clear and brown switches to be PCB mounted, while I prefer blacks and blues plate mounted. This is a personal preference and you will have to figure it out yourself. The difference is extremely subtle besides on some brown boards.

[rustybarnacle]

There is a difference in feel, and on some boards in terms of flexing. Personally I prefer clear and brown switches to be PCB mounted, while I prefer blacks and blues plate mounted. This is a personal preference and you will have to figure it out yourself. The difference is extremely subtle besides on some brown boards.

I figure it's probably subtle.  I'm not sure if i'm on that level or not.  I mostly want a solid feeling board that won't move around when i type on it.

[theferenc]

The layout is just standard ANSI with a FN layer for the missing keys. In no way is that superior to the HHKB layout, unless you can't handle a non-ANSI layout, of course.

[rustybarnacle]

The layout is just standard ANSI with a FN layer for the missing keys. In no way is that superior to the HHKB layout, unless you can't handle a non-ANSI layout, of course.

Hence my back pedaling with "easier to get used to" coming from nothing but ansi keyboards.  I can sympathize with a backspace key that's less of a reach for sure.

[pm_]

I like my dedicated function keys, in part because, when playing certain games, I don't have the extra finger to hit FN + # to activate the second layer.  This might not be an issue for you, but for me it's a strike against the Poker, and I would buy a Topre if I was in the HHKB price range.

Regarding noise, when I play games, browns on my cherry keyboard produce more noise and activate my mic more easily than blues on my ducky.  However, the thock thock of the browns is a lower pitch than the blues, and as such, imo, less obtrusive.  You give a little, get a little here.

Haven't tried a Topre, but will one day...a lot of members have used the Topre and keyboards with Cherry Browns, so others should be able to chime in here.

If I see a Noppoo Choc Mini on PC Home at some point, for a similar price to the ones sold in Hong Kong, I plan on buying one of those with browns, so I'll put in a vote for that keyboard, although I haven't tried one yet.

[rustybarnacle]

I think after much PMing and more research, the best keyboard would be a choc mini with after-market blank keycaps.  That is also the most trouble, and arguably the cost of a topre board by the time i'm done.  I think for now i'll snag one of the otaku brown leopolds from EK when they're available, and maybe snag a choc mini when the opportunity presents itself.

[ch_123]

The geeky compactness of the HHKB is appealing, but it is unclear how I would like the layout, and how much i would miss the inverted T and the various ins/del/pgup/pgdn keys (i'm certain I could live with fn+# to get F keys).

Those keys are available on the Fn layer.

[itlnstln]

The geeky compactness of the HHKB is appealing, but it is unclear how I would like the layout, and how much i would miss the inverted T and the various ins/del/pgup/pgdn keys (i'm certain I could live with fn+# to get F keys).

Those keys are available on the Fn layer.

Check it.

[rustybarnacle]

Those keys are available on the Fn layer.

I realize that.  I mean could I live without them NOT being in the Fn layer.

[theferenc]

The HHKB blows the Noppoo out of the water. If you're willing to spend that much money, you really should just get the HHKB. It takes all of a couple days to get used to the function layer.

And then you start missing it on other keyboards, and start looking for ways to emulate it. Personally, I use xmodmap.

[British]

The short version
[...]
The TLDR version

For the record, TL;DR (Too Long; Didn't Read) actually means "short version" (well, more or less, but that's roughly the idea) :wink:

[noodles256]

get a noppoo

[rustybarnacle]

For the record, TL;DR (Too Long; Didn't Read) actually means "short version" (well, more or less, but that's roughly the idea) :wink:

I suppose this could be interpretted any number of ways but:  I'm aware of the meaning of TLDR.  And typically, when one posts a wall of text such as that in the "TLDR" version above, posters below just put "TLDR" thus attaching the "too long didn't read" to the big block o' text.

But I can see why you could just as easily say those who would normally write TLDR would then want the short version, etc.  In short, I knew what it meant.  And my epeen couldn't handle you thinking otherwise.

[Exoverture]

The browns are great.

Topre is nice, but the price doesn't justify it for me. I could afford it... easily, but is it worth it? No, in my opinion. I have tried them - they are really nice, but I like browns a lot...

DAS Professional S and Filco browns

[British]

And my epeen couldn't handle you thinking otherwise.

Color me double-shocked !