Fake Cherries

[elbowglue]

Just got a Chicony 5191, it has fake cherry copy switches.  They are clear colored but they click, just like blue cherries. They also require 11-12 nickels to actuate (12 nickels will do it all the time, 11 will do it with a good tap)

So here's the fun part.  If you take the top off a fake cherry and take the stem and the spring out, you can put it into a cherry MX base.  It seems to work fine!  The only thing that dosen't work is that the the cherry keycap is a little loose on the fake cherry stem, so you need to use the original keycap.

So if you have a black cherry KB and want to make it clicky, it is a cheap conversion to buy a Chicony 5191 and swap the switches (it has PCB mounted switches!)

Here's the bad news:  The cherry copy housing breaks really easily when you remove them.  I am 2 for 2 cracking the case.

[elbowglue]

Upon further review, this dosen't actually look like a great idea.

Opening the chicony 5191 switches almost always breaks the casing of the switch.  The plastic is cheap and brittle.  I'll have to test this further..  The spring diameter is larger on the imitation cherry springs in comparison with a real cherry blue switch. I'll experiment with this some more and report back.

[mrbill]

I have both a 5191 and a 5181, gotten NIB from eBay over the past month or so.  The 5191 is "meh", but the 5181 with the Monterey switches is *great*.  It's not gonna replace my Filco, but it's better than nothing.

[fastbuck]

I have both a 5191 and a 5181, gotten NIB from eBay over the past month or so.  The 5191 is "meh", but the 5181 with the Monterey switches is *great*.  It's not gonna replace my Filco, but it's better than nothing.

I also have both. While 5181 is more solidly built, I actually much prefer typing on 5191 more - the keys are lighter than 5181, the feel and the click is very crisp, and 5191 keys don't bind when pressed at an angle.

[fastbuck]

Upon further review, this dosen't actually look like a great idea.

Opening the chicony 5191 switches almost always breaks the casing of the switch.  The plastic is cheap and brittle.  I'll have to test this further..  The spring diameter is larger on the imitation cherry springs in comparison with a real cherry blue switch. I'll experiment with this some more and report back.

Ah, too bad you can't open the switch without destroying it, I wanted to put 5191 switches in on of my Cherry brown boards to make it click. Can you take some close-up pics?

[elbowglue]

I did a little more testing.  My fricken camera can't do so much macro capability, I apologize for not posting pictures:

Rbase = real cherry casing bottom // Rspring = real brown cherry spring // Rstem = real brown cherry stem // Rtop = real cherry casing top // Rcap = real cherry cap

Fbase = fake cherry casing bottom etc etc...

So:

1) Rbase + Fspring + Fstem + Ftop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
2) Rbase + Rspring + Fstem + Ftop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
3) Rbase + Fspring + Fstem + Rtop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
4) Rbase + Rspring + Fstem + Rtop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
5) FBase + Rspring + anything dosen't work.
6) XXXX + XXXXX + Fstem + XXX + Rcap = dosent work.
7) XXXX + XXXXX + Rstem + XXX + Fcap = dosen't work well.  (actually I retested, I think this works ok)

The Ftop's (fake cherry casing tops) crack really easily.  Meaning if you take the stems out in the same fashion I did, you will break the top casing of the switch.

#6 and #7 is because the Plus sign on the fake cherry stems is smaller than the plus sign on real cherry stems.  If you try to put a real cherry cap on a fake cherry stem, it is too big to fit correctly.


#6 is the main reason you would have problems making your existing cherry brown board "clicky" using fake cherry stems.  You would have to use the fake cherry keycaps to hook to your fake cherry stems.  The result would be that you would have a big "reverse L" shaped enter key from your fake cherry chicony KB-5191 which wouldn't fit on the layout of your real cherry keyboard.  Also, cherry keyboards have left mounted capslock keys, where as the KB-5191 uses middle mounted capslock keys.

Sorry for the long boring post.

[kishy]

I did a little more testing.  My fricken camera can't do so much macro capability, I apologize for not posting pictures:

Rbase = real cherry casing bottom // Rspring = real brown cherry spring // Rstem = real brown cherry stem // Rtop = real cherry casing top // Rcap = real cherry cap

Fbase = fake cherry casing bottom etc etc...

So:

1) Rbase + Fspring + Fstem + Ftop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
2) Rbase + Rspring + Fstem + Ftop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
3) Rbase + Fspring + Fstem + Rtop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
4) Rbase + Rspring + Fstem + Rtop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
5) FBase + Rspring + anything dosen't work.
6) XXXX + XXXXX + Fstem + XXX + Rcap = dosent work.
7) XXXX + XXXXX + Rstem + XXX + Fcap = dosen't work well.

The Ftop's (fake cherry casing tops) crack really easily.  Meaning if you take the stems out in the same fashion I did, you will break the top casing of the switch.

#6 and #7 is because the Plus sign on the fake cherry stems is smaller than the plus sign on real cherry stems.  If you try to put a real cherry cap on a fake cherry stem, it is too big to fit correctly.


#6 is the main reason you would have problems making your existing cherry brown board "clicky" using fake cherry stems.  You would have to use the fake cherry keycaps to hook to your fake cherry stems.  The result would be that you would have a big "reverse L" shaped enter key from your fake cherry chicony KB-5191 which wouldn't fit on the layout of your real cherry keyboard.  Also, cherry keyboards have left mounted capslock keys, where as the KB-5191 uses middle mounted capslock keys.

Sorry for the long boring post.

This raises a concern about a couple things I've sold.

1) set of "Cherry" keycaps, which is now appears came from a board with fake black switches

2) the fake black switches. The fact they were fake was identified by the buyer.

Can the buyers of these items (you should know who you are, I won't call you out however) confirm that the keycap/stem fit is inconsistent with real Cherry switches/keycaps?

[elbowglue]

actually I tested it a bit more.  I think it does work.  The receiving portion of the fake cherry keycap is again smaller than the receiving portion of the real cherry keycap.  However if you jam a fake cherry keycap onto a real cherry stem, it sort of fits.  It fits very tightly, but if you press it down hard it will stick rather well.  It's pretty hard to pry it off but it fits.  So I take back what I said in #7 - #7 actually works ok.

[Mental Hobbit]

the fake black switches.

First time I hear of fake blacks. What type of keyboard was that?

[fastbuck]

I did a little more testing.  My fricken camera can't do so much macro capability, I apologize for not posting pictures:

Rbase = real cherry casing bottom // Rspring = real brown cherry spring // Rstem = real brown cherry stem // Rtop = real cherry casing top // Rcap = real cherry cap

Fbase = fake cherry casing bottom etc etc...

So:

1) Rbase + Fspring + Fstem + Ftop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
2) Rbase + Rspring + Fstem + Ftop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
3) Rbase + Fspring + Fstem + Rtop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
4) Rbase + Rspring + Fstem + Rtop + Fcap = works. (click 55-60g)
5) FBase + Rspring + anything dosen't work.
6) XXXX + XXXXX + Fstem + XXX + Rcap = dosent work.
7) XXXX + XXXXX + Rstem + XXX + Fcap = dosen't work well.  (actually I retested, I think this works ok)

The Ftop's (fake cherry casing tops) crack really easily.  Meaning if you take the stems out in the same fashion I did, you will break the top casing of the switch.

#6 and #7 is because the Plus sign on the fake cherry stems is smaller than the plus sign on real cherry stems.  If you try to put a real cherry cap on a fake cherry stem, it is too big to fit correctly.


#6 is the main reason you would have problems making your existing cherry brown board "clicky" using fake cherry stems.  You would have to use the fake cherry keycaps to hook to your fake cherry stems.  The result would be that you would have a big "reverse L" shaped enter key from your fake cherry chicony KB-5191 which wouldn't fit on the layout of your real cherry keyboard.  Also, cherry keyboards have left mounted capslock keys, where as the KB-5191 uses middle mounted capslock keys.

Sorry for the long boring post.

That info is GOLD!! Thanks Elbowglue

Looks like I'll have to keep my three 5191s as is, which is fine, as I like it a lot. I just wanted to spread some of that 5191 switch goodness to other keyboards LOL.

BTW, what makes cherry switch click? I know with ALPS it's the leaf spring, so with alps I could just replace the leaf spring to make them clicky without replacing the stem. Are cherry switches different? Can you make brown stem cherry switch clicky by substituting other internals from the fake switch, like the leaf spring?

[elbowglue]

BTW, what makes cherry switch click? I know with ALPS it's the leaf spring, so with alps I could just replace the leaf spring to make them clicky without replacing the stem. Are cherry switches different? Can you make brown stem cherry switch clicky by substituting other internals from the fake switch, like the leaf spring?

The click comes from the stem.  Force required to press the key down comes from a combination of the stem and the spring (mostly the spring).  You can't make a brown stem (one piece) click - the blue cherry stem is two pieces and they clack together at some point making the noise.  The blue cherry and brown cherry stems use the same spring, they just differ by the stem.  In fact, I think brown cherries and blue cherries feel almost the same except for the click.  And in fact the fake cherries feels almost just like a blue cherry too.

The spring on the fake cherries looks different than the real brown cherry spring (different diameter, different number of coils), but it feels just about the same.

[Mental Hobbit]

BTW, what makes cherry switch click?

It's a slider on the stem, so it works only with blue stems.

[aegrotatio]

I'm bumping this old thread just to say that my Chicony KB-5191 has horrible keybounce problems.  I do not know if it is the switches, the controller, or something else.  I've tried it on both a PS/2 computer and a PS/2-to-USB converter.  I'm going to try opening it up but before I bother on such a cheap curiosity, does anyone else have experience with resolving problems with the quality of the Chicony KB-5191 and its Cherry copies or the controller?

P.S. I'm typing this on the Chicony KB-5181 which is fantastic clicky Montereys that don't have any problems.